All language subtitles for Psycho The Lost Tapes of Ed Gein S01 E02_track3_[eng]

The end of the 1950s,

that's a time that
we generally associate

with this kind of perfect ideal
of the American suburb.

2.5 children, the picket fence,
the husband going off to work,

the woman staying at home
and tending the family.

What's new, Hasbro?

Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head,

with their own cars
and trailers.

That's what's new.

Was that in reality,
what was actually happening

the entire time?

Of course not. Of course not.

In 1957, this small-town
Wisconsin horror story

was being exposed to the world.

The shock and the fear
that suddenly gripped them

when the grisly tale
of Ed Gein became public.

When you listen
to the tape of Ed Gein,

you almost anticipate hearing
somebody act like a monster.

There seems to be
a real disconnect

between this meek,
quiet, solitary person

and the gruesome things that
they've discovered at his house.

There's a number of questions
when you analyze the Gein case.

Did he have sexual relations
with the bodies?

Could he have eaten
some of the victims?

There's very little that Gein
is not capable of.

Ed Gein's story
is just so gruesome.

Most people can't imagine
what it would be like

to excavate a corpse
from the ground

and then take the head
and the skull

and then create objects
out of the parts

that you take
from a rotten corpse.

I'm looking at
additional records,

maybe a little deeper
into the records

based on his initial
examination and evaluation

at Central State Hospital.

Edward Gein talks
about constructing masks

out of the skin from the skulls
of some of the people he dug up.

And then putting these masks
on his own face.

One could conjecture that
in doing so,

that is to say,
putting these masks on,

is this a way
of transforming himself

or being a different person
for a moment?

Is this a way of relating
to the corpses

and becoming intimate
with them?

He doesn't really talk about
being sickened by the behavior.

So clearly this had
meaning for him

and this was important to him.

We know that he had
these face masks.

Some of which he hung
on his wall as trophies.

You know, this is
where Tobe Hooper

got the whole
Leatherface idea from.

I remember watching
Texas Chainsaw Massacre

for the first time
when I was in high school.

The thing that always
stood out to me

was the grittiness
of how it was shot.

And the fact that it seemed
almost in parts

like a snuff video.

The fact that Leatherface,
the character was loosely

based on Ed Gein and because of
the kind of things that he was

doing with people's skin.

The house that Texas Chainsaw
Massacre is modeled upon...

...was the home of Ed Gein.

The word that people
used over and over again

after they discovered
the house was "revolting."

There's something about
his home to me

is very indicative
of who he was, too.

There's just something
about serial killers

and kind of like what their
homes come to represent to them.

Like there's a house out there
where there shouldn't be.

And there's also a bunch
of fucked up stuff

happening inside of that house
where it shouldn't be.

I love this shot where Pamela

is walking up to the house
for the first time.

It's shot almost
at ground level.

We have lots of camera movement
as she's walking in,

and now she's about to enter
this really, really awful room,

the room that is, of course,
drawing in large part

on what Ed Gein's house
would have looked like.

There is so much about
Texas Chainsaw Massacre

that just feels so gritty,
so grimy,

and like you are stuck
in this house

with this entire horrifying
family and you can't get out.

That to me was so much
of what made it so scary.

It felt completely immersive
because it felt so urgent,

so real.

The other reason
that it's so urgent,

it's so visceral,
it's so upsetting

is because not only
is it based on a real moment,

but the house that Tobe Hooper
and the crew

used to shoot
Texas Chainsaw Massacre,

well, they had filled it
with all of these animal parts,

and these animal parts
were sitting there for days.

She's really experiencing

what it's like to be in a room
with all of those dead animals,

all of those bits
of rotting animals.

And of
course, she's trying to get away

from all of these horrors,
this is, of course, the moment

when Leatherface comes out.

He's called Leatherface because
he has a collection of masks

that he has made
out of human skin.

That's the thing that really
sticks out to me

in terms of Ed Gein.

It's the fact that he repurposed
people's bodies.

And that's what's
so upsetting about him.

What makes Gein
stand out is what he did

with the bodies.

If you look at a group
of sexual murderers,

only about 6%
have engaged in necrophilia.

Police say these two
young men have committed an act

that is so unthinkable there
isn't even a law against it.

The men allegedly sexually
assaulted two female corpses.

Webster's Dictionary
describes necrophilia

as "an erotic attraction
to corpses."

Necrophilia
is a paraphilia.

It's an abnormal
sexual arousal pattern.

There's many different types
of paraphilias.

Pedophilia is a paraphilia.

Fetishism, sexual arousal
to non-living objects

is a paraphilia.

Voyeurism.

Necrophilia is
another paraphilia.

Historically, law enforcers
here in Florida charged

necrophiliacs
with sexual battery.

That is until a few years ago
when a circuit court

in South Florida ruled that
consent is no longer

an issue if a person is dead.

We understand the
psychopathology of sexual murder

and all these other sorts
of bizarre paraphilias

much better today
than they did in the 1950s.

Every mental illness
has its causes associated

with a patient's character,
his upbringing,

and the joys and sorrows
he has gone through.

The motivation for
the vast majority of

necrophiliacs is that
a dead body is not threatening.

Because these are people
internally that feel weak

and inadequate.

The vast majority of offenders
kill the person,

then for some reason, they're
stimulated by the dead body

and penetrate the body.

In that case, the body
is basically still warm.

Not every case
involving necrophilia

involves sexual murder.

I had a case of a guy

who was a histology
technician in a hospital,

went to the morgue
where they kept the slides

because it was cool.

When security left,
he took out the corpse,

the refrigerated corpse
of a 91-year-old woman,

penetrated her sexually using
a latex glove as a condom.

He didn't kill anybody.

But you go where
your psychology leads you.

With respect to Ed Gein,

this was not a spontaneous act
where he killed somebody

and then he penetrated
the person.

No, he was highly motivated
to get corpses.

Gein, he's creating items
from, most of its genitals

and vaginas and nipples

and these sorts of things,
in addition to skin.

In Gein's case,
he was wearing human skin,

getting into human skin,
this type of thing.

You have to remember
that this this guy, Ed,

grew up with more rage probably
than anyone could ever imagine.

And even though
he couldn't readily

express it, when
you're that angry,

you either directed outward
or you direct it inward.

You become a murderer,
or you become sadistic,

or you become
perversely involved

in the kinds of activities

that he found himself
involved in.

It's is perverse and bizarre
as it can possibly be.

No.

No. Well, as I said,
there is a very rare delusion

involving skin.

I did have a case
where a person thought

that his brother
was wearing a skin suit

and he was an imposter
and wound up killing him.

But I've never had a case
where a person wanted to wear

somebody else's skin.

I don't think I ever heard
of a case

like that in
the annals of crime.

Shortly after Augusta died,
Ed Gein closed off her room.

And, you know,
it was the only room

in the house
that he never entered.

He made it
into a kind of little shrine.

You don't have to go much
further than look at his home.

The place was total disarray,
cluttered, dirt,

garbage, smelled of rotting
flesh and all the rest.

And then look
at his mother's room.

It was completely preserved,
neat, the way she left it.

That's
what's so, so unsettling about

watching Psycho.

Here in Psycho, we have it
linked up with the possibility

of it actually
being a real story.

And that makes it really,
really scary.

Mrs. Bates?

Norman Bates' motivation
to kill is that he has this

long-term obsession
with his mother

that's so much in keeping with
Hitchcock's more raw approach.

You can
love your parents.

But still,
a healthy person strives,

in a sense
to be able to formulate

some kind of critique
of what, you know, you like

or didn't like about
the way they raised you.

I don't think he was able to do
that in any conscious way.

So there's a kind of closeness
that's pathologic.

Could not separate himself
emotionally,

psychologically from his mother.

This is all in his mind.

One of the most
infamous aspects of

the Gein case, it's the one that
Thomas Harris employed in

Silence of the Lambs,
was Gein making a skin suit.

He flayed the legs
from a corpse.

He flayed the upper torso,

including the breasts
from a corpse.

He dried them.

He apparently attached
some kind of strings,

and he would put on
this skin suit.

The skin suit, I think,
has an entirely different

meaning for him than
anything else that he did

with these bodies.

I think the skin suit
was the real project.

It raises a couple
of possibilities.

Is this his way of becoming
more intimate with Mother?

If not literally his mother.

I think that with what
we know about his attachment

to his mother,
that that is a much more

kind of compelling example
of him role playing

and desperately just trying
to feel her presence again,

even if it means just stepping
into this suit that he's made.

My understanding of the case
is the reason he couldn't

disinter his mother is
I think there was cement

around the coffin itself,
which often happens

in some cemeteries for erosion
reasons and so on.

I think that was his problem.

I think Ed was
far too scared of his mother

to ever even attempt to
to dig her up,

because I think
it had to be her choice.

It had to be something
that she wanted.

He was never going
to make her do anything

that she didn't want to do,
and she was only going to

come out of that grave
if she wanted to come out.

All men should respect women
so much.

- Sure.
- Yeah.

That's great.

Because he can't
bring his mother's corpse back

to the home where he wants
to have his mother,

the skin suit becomes
a type of role play

where he can step
into the skin of his mother,

even though it's not
the skin of his mother.

You can step into some object
that represents his mother,

and for whatever period of time,
he can kind of resuscitate her

and play as if he is her.

My hobby is stuffing things,
you know, taxidermy.

So clearly,

both Norman Bates and Ed Gein

are a little bit obsessed
with their mothers.

A man should have a hobby.

Well, it's...

It's more than a hobby.

In the scene, we start

to learn a little bit more
about Norman Bates' mother.

We're also learning
that he's very into taxidermy.

We'll learn later, at the end
of the film, that Norman Bates

has been keeping his mother
taxidermied in his house.

It speaks to this idea of
the 1950s American family ideal,

where you should
respect your mother,

you should adore your mother,

and then how easily
that gets kind of twisted

into absolute obsession
and absolute darkness.

I think this is a real moment

where we see horror as a genre
developing this notion.

Look, Mama.

I brought you a visitor.

That's what bothers me,

because you're not
very big, are you?

In terms of
the skin suit he made,

a lot of what Gein did had to do
with resurrecting his mother.

But the other part of it is,
you know,

Gein's fantasy about
becoming a woman.

We know that he avidly
read stories about this ex G.I.

who went to Sweden

and had a sex-change operation.

And came back
as Christine Jorgensen.

Christine Jorgensen,
who made world headlines

when she was transformed from
a former G.I. into a woman,

is now a Woman of the Year,
a title bestowed upon her

by the Scandinavian Societies
of Greater New York.

There was a lot of
publicity about

Christine Jorgensen, and Ed
followed that case very closely.

I am deeply honored
and most sincerely touched.

Ed Gein was
also obsessed with

the Christine Jorgensen case.

When he was interviewed
by psychiatrist later on,

he did say that
when he was a little boy,

he did often wonder
what it would be like

to be a little girl.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, it's weird
because the entire thing

is filtered
through the lens of Ed Gein.

You know, it's still filtered
through this like,

demented lens.

But he definitely
was looking

for a sense of self,
though, right?

He's trying to figure out
who he is.

- Surely.
And what is he doing

in Plainfield, Wisconsin?

What's the point of life?

And I guess it just led to him
making a skin suit.

If you're inclined
or sensitive to or vulnerable

to input from magazines
or movies you see

or stuff you read,

you know, it may find its way
into your imagination

and then start to incorporate
that into your own fantasy life.

You know, I think about things
like sexual identity

and sort of,
who was this guy sexually?

And I don't know if he knew,

but it would seem as though
he never had sex.

Seem as though his mother
cautioned him

that you shouldn't have sex
unless you marry a woman.

So, was there something
sexually gratifying about this?

Necrophiliacs
disinter bodies for the purpose

of having sex with the corpse.

That's why they're doing it.

In Gein's case,
it could have been

that he wanted to have sex
with his mother.

There's certainly
a lot of Oedipal dynamics

that psychologists
and psychiatrists

talk about all the time.

He may have been to the point

where his years of wallowing
in this very bizarre lifestyle

just wasn't doing the trick
for him anymore.

It might be satisfying
on some level for him

for many years
to defile dead bodies.

But there's nothing more
powerful than killing someone.

Mary Hogan, there are all kinds
of rumors about her background.

She was a plain-spoken woman,

apparently with somewhat
of a profane tongue,

who ran this little
roadhouse tavern that Eddie

sometimes patronized.

Mrs. Hogan, that was the little
tavern up there

north of where our farm was.

It was probably
four miles up there.

Mary Hogan,
Ed Gein sort of saw her

as this dark shadow side
of his mother.

You know, where his mother
was a saintly figure,

Mary Hogan was the embodiment
of all that was most corrupt.

Some customer came in,
saw evidence that there had been

some kind of commotion
in the tavern.

Mary Hogan was gone.

There were some
overturned chairs.

There were bullet casings
and some bloodstains.

It was clear that
something dire had happened.

I would have been,
what, 13, 14 years old?

Mary Hogan was missing,

and I suppose
they had found some blood.

Nobody knew who did it.

Ed Gein is confronted with
the gravity of what he's done

and is unable to own up to it
and accept responsibility.

The funny thing was that
after that it happened,

the threshing crew,
they were talking about it

with Eddie, and Eddie says, "Oh,
I got her down to my place."

And they said, "Eddie, you fool,

you haven't got her down
to your place."

And he said, "Yes, I do."

And everybody laughed
and joked about it,

and that was the extent of it.

He was telling the truth.

He did have her down
to his place.

Wisconsin people have
a great sense of humor.

- They really do.
- And it is kind of funny.

That one is strange to me.

What's interesting about
the Mary Hogan accusation

is that it he denied
killing Mary Hogan for so long.

It wasn't until
they had to tell him,

like, "We found her head
inside your house."

Once investigators

were going through
Gein's farmhouse,

one of them found a paper bag
and just reached inside it

and pulled out this head

that he immediately recognized
as Mary Hogan.

I went with

Arnie Fritz and the sheriff

out to Ed Gein's house.

I searched the kitchen

and found in the stove

where there had been
some human bones burnt.

Shoebox had the face mask
of a woman.

And by that time,
the sheriff from

Portage County was there.

And when they lifted
up that face mask,

he immediately recognized
it as Mary Hogan's.

When you say face mask,
what are you talking about?

Well, he took the skin,
cut it up in the back and there

and just peeled it off the face,
the skin.

The hair and everything
was on the masks.

Basically the head, it was
rigged up so it could be worn.

In terms of his
necrophiliac urges,

you know, it's like
he ran out of bodies.

You know, there wasn't
any suitable body

in the graveyard at that point,
so he decided to create his own.

Ed Gein was devastatingly
curious about the female form.

- Yes.
The only female form

that he knew was his mother's.

And he actually developed
a form of sexual attraction

to his mother.

No one knows what's going on
in his interior life.

He has not said
a single one of these thoughts

to another human being.

And there's a curiosity that's
been building inside of you.

So it's like it's a further of
like just like weirdly

just being obsessed
with the female form

and just wanting to see it.

It's such
an intimate act, murder,

especially when it's close.

He wasn't getting enough out
of the dead bodies emotionally.

The next place to go would be,

well, let me take
someone's life.

Ed Gein says in the tapes
several times

that he can't remember.

This is an individual
who does not have

the emotional social development
of an adult being confronted

with the gruesome crimes
that he's committed

and trying to find a way
to soften his responsibility.

This is a way to kind of
distance himself

from the heinous crimes
that he's committed

by feigning that he has amnesia,

that he can't remember,
that he goes into a haze,

that he becomes
this other person.

At one point,
after multiple rounds of this,

where he says
that he can't remember,

he says that if they can show
that it was my gun

that went off,
then I guess it was me.

He's describing an object

that is of his possession,

committing the crime
as if it has agency

or autonomy in the world,

when in fact, he is the one
committing this violence.

When you look
carefully at everything

that they asked Gein
about what he did,

he just said, "I don't remember.

If the police said I did it,
I must have done it.

But I don't remember this,
I don't remember that."

He doesn't implicate himself
in the more bizarre things.

I thought that was important.

That's called
malingered amnesia.

That's very, very typical in
criminal defendants in general.

I want you
to understand what happened.

It was like coming out
of some kind of

horrible trance or dream,

to wake up in the morning
and realize what I had done

and with a clear mind.

It occurs mainly
for two reasons.

One, the criminal
defendant believes

it's to his legal advantage to
say that they don't remember.

And two, they don't want

to remember and discuss
what they had done.

Apparently, I had beaten him
to death with my fists.

- And you have no memory?
I have no memory of it.

So I just -- I can't explain it.

I think I have a good memory,

and it's almost like
I blacked out.

Keep in mind, also,
there is no memory disorder

or neurocognitive disorder

that is selective
for criminal behavior.

So Gein doesn't have
a memory problem.

The only thing he can't remember
are the perverse acts

and the illegal acts
and the extraordinary acts

that he's being accused of.

There's a part of him that is
seeking to erase his past.

He's grown up in this
isolated existence,

cut off from basically everyone
except for his mother, right?

And so there's this immense
amount of attachment

to this one person
who is also responsible

for a lot of your misery.

Part of him is exorcizing
these demons from his life

that his mother has created,
and he's seeking out victims

who at least ostensibly
remind him of his mother.

It seems so unimaginable
that one would murder a woman

that you'd known
for years and years,

liked enough, you know,
to ask out on a date.

We know that he had brought some
.22 caliber shells with him.

Worden's Hardware stocked
a lot of the supplies

for people who were
doing farming and so on.

It also stocked rifles.

Ed Gein took one of the rifles.

When her back was turned,
he loaded the rifle.

We're on Main Street,
Plainfield, Wisconsin.

This is the main drag.

This would have been
all dirt roads back in the day.

Okay, this is
the hardware store.

It's a little different
than it was back in 1957.

Actually, the spot
where they kept the guns

was in the back of the store.

Bernice Worden was actually
looking out the window

across the street
where the gas station was

when she got shot
in the back of the head.

Ed Gein walked back in a store
and wanted to see a .22 rifle

that was in the back
of the store.

So Bernice got that for him.

Then she went up front
by the counter

to look out the window,
out at the gas station.

Ed Gein pulled a bullet
out of his front pocket,

loaded it inside the gun,

and shot her in
the back of the head.

Now, the back of the store
has changed a little bit.

This part sticking out
was not there.

It's totally flush.

Now, right about
where these glass doors was,

is actually an overhead garage.

And inside that was where

the Worden's hardware truck
was parked.

It was a pickup truck.

Ed put Bernice in the back
of that pickup truck.

When you go inside, you kind of
feel a heaviness on you.

Like this is
an historical spot to me.

Welcome to Plainfield.

After executing Bernice Worden,

Gein dragged her body
out the back of the store,

loaded it into her truck.

Ed Gein drove to his farmhouse,

dragged her corpse
into his woodshed,

and then walked back into town,
a distance of about six miles,

I think,
and got in his own car.

We're currently
at Ed Gein's land,

on the corner of 2nd and Archer.

And this is where Ed would have
drove his car in

when he had Bernice Worden
in the back.

Exciting standing here.

This is the freaking
property, man.

This is where it all happened.

I love it.

The floor was dirt,
and basically she was hanging

from the rafters on a hoist,

and she was basically
totally gutted

by like a deer, and no head.

On the tapes, you hear
the judge say multiple times,

"You gutted her like a deer."

It's a community where
people are used to hunting.

Used to working
with their hands.

They're familiar with knives.

And the practices that you would
use to skin and kill animals

is something that could be
transferable to humans.

He had no empathy
or no ability to connect

emotionally
or psychologically to her.

I guess he wanted
to clean her up,

get her as clean as possible
by bleeding her.

You know, like a deer
or like an animal,

so that he could get on
with the business

of what he wanted to do,
which is probably to skin her.

It is just not even possible
for any "normal person"

to, you know, imagine
that kind of mentality.

Committing these atrocities
on female bodies,

you know, was just --
was just part of his life.

After Ed was caught,

townspeople started
telling stories about

Ed having come to their house

and offered them venison
from the deer he had killed.

By his own admission,
Ed had never hunted deer.

So the point of
those stories was that...

...they now realized...

...that the meat that Gein
was offering them...

...was actually human flesh.