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[โชโชโช]
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[tense music]
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[tense music]
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[gunshot]
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[dramatic music]
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[Whoopi Goldberg]
The one physician present
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at both Parkland Hospital
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and the Bethesda morgue
was George Burkley,
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Kennedy's personal doctor.
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Like Knudsen,
he was a Navy officer
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and as a rear admiral,
he ranked above him.
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Burkley signed the autopsy descriptive sheet
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with a bullet in the back
at the level of T-3.
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And he also signed
Kennedy's death certificate,
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which also placed
that wound in the back.
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That death certificate
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is not in the Warren
Commission volumes,
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and the descriptive sheet
in the Commission volumes
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does not have
Burkley's signature.
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Arlen Specter did not depose
George Burkley,
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but Burkley
went further than that.
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[Goldberg]
Dr. Burkley did an interview
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with the JFK Library in 1967
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and was asked this question:
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[Goldberg]
In 1977, through his lawyer,
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he wrote a letter to
Richard Sprague,
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chief counsel
of the House Select Committee
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on Assassinations.
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He said
he had information
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indicating that others
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besides Oswald
must have participated
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in the assassination.
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He was willing to talk about it
at this time.
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Sprague, who had made clear
his intention
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to fully investigate
the CIA's involvement,
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was forced out two weeks later.
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Dr. Burkley submitted
a written statement
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to the House Select Committee,
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but there is
no official record
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of him being deposed
as a witness.
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-In 1982, he told
JFK researcher Henry Hurt,
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"I know there was
more than one gunman."
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And when Henry Hurt
tried to recontact Burkley
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for more details, Berkeley
cut him off at the knees.
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"I don't want to
talk about it anymore."
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The very next year,
Burkley talked to Michael Kurtz,
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another JFK researcher,
told him that he knew
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there was a conspiracy
to kill the president,
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and that he recalled
an exit wound
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in the back of
President Kennedy's head.
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Now, that's
a very significant statement,
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that the only doctor we know of
who was present at both
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Parkland for treatment, and at
Bethesda during the autopsy,
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told Michael Kurtz in 1983
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that Kennedy had an exit wound
in the back of his head.
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When Kurtz
tried to recontact Burkley,
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Burkley cut him off the knees:
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"I don't want to talk
about this anymore."
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Dr. Burkley was deceased
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by the time the Review Board
was impaneled.
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So then Jeremy decided,
well, we can ask
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the executor of his estate,
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his daughter,
to sign a waiver
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so that we could
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go to the law firm that
Mr. Illig used to work for,
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because he was deceased also,
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and see if there were
any records
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in the file of Mr. Illig
that would have revealed
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what it was he wanted to
tell the HSCA in detail.
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And she said she would do that.
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And then
Jeremy called her on the phone,
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she had completely
changed her mind
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and adamantly
refused to sign it,
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and terminated the phone call.
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-When I was a teenager,
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Dr. Burkley and his family,
four children,
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and my father
and our family of four children,
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shared a duplex, lived together
at the Newport Naval Hospital.
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He had a son, George,
who was my age, 16,
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and we became buddies.
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I looked him up again in 2012
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and I asked him about
what his dad had told him
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and his siblings about
his role in the Kennedy case.
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That the only thing
that he would say was that
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he couldn't understand
why the Warren Commission
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never asked him to testify.
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Dr. Burkley knew perfectly well
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why he wasn't asked
to testify before the Warren Commission.
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The reason he didn't say anything
to his children,
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he didn't want them to know
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that he was intimately
involved in the cover-up.
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Dr. Burkley's
death certificate
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makes the single bullet theory
bogus.
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And the way the Warren Commission
dealt with it was,
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they didn't
publish the death certificate.
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-If the ARRB had
been a criminal investigation,
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would you have granted Burkley
immunity for his testimony?
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-We should have
re-deposed Humes and Boswell
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after giving them immunity.
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And if Burkley
had still been around,
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he would have been
another candidate
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because he was at the center
of the photographic cover-up.
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By the way, George Burkley
was a Rear Admiral.
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He was promoted to Vice Admiral
by Lyndon Johnson.
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So he promoted Burkley
to the highest possible rank,
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kept him on
as military physician,
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and the last person to walk out
of the White House
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with Lyndon Johnson
the day he left office
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was George Burkley.
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[man] [on tape] using the most
precise medical terminology
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that you can use.
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[Audrey Bell] [on tape]
Okay, let's say
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it was on the right rear.
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[Goldberg] In addition
to this large avulsion of wound
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in the rear of the skull,
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seven personnel at Parkland Hospital
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saw cerebellum
at the bottom of the skull.
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[Cyril Wecht]
The brain consists of two
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large cerebral hemispheres.
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And then lower down,
posteriorly,
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are two hemispheres,
the cerebellum.
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They differ in coloration.
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They differ in
the topographical markings.
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-So seven doctors
at Parkland Hospital
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claim to have seen
the cerebellum.
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-In 1963, it was
one of the top trauma centers
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in the country, and it's still
one of the top trauma centers.
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Dr. Robert McClelland
saw a clump of the cerebellum,
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a large clump,
fall out of the skull
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onto the emergency room bed.
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-In my mind, as surely
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as you can ever be
about any observation,
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that was cerebellum
that extruded onto the gurney
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while I was standing there
looking at it.
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[Michael Chesser]
Then we have Dr. Kemp Clark.
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He went into detail
with the Warren Commission
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about the result of all
this loss of cerebellar tissue
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if President Kennedy
had survived the-- the wound.
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So there was no doubt that there
was loss of cerebellar tissue.
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[Goldberg]
This reliable eyewitness
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testimony indicates
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that the wound in Kennedy's
rear skull extended quite low.
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And also,
there was severe damage
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to that sector of the brain.
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Yet, in the autopsy report
written at Bethesda
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by James Humes, there is
no mention of the cerebellum,
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and he did not testify
about it to the Warren Commission.
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-So these guys,
good old Texan, respected doctors,
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and they've seen hundreds
and thousands of brains,
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especially the neurosurgeon,
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saw cerebellum
having been damaged,
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significantly displaced,
in the occipital area.
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The doctors who did the autopsy,
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read the autopsy report
from Humes and Boswell.
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The cerebellum is intact.
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Who do you believe?
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Do you believe
these Texas doctors?
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Or do you believe
the two career naval pathologists
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working under military control?
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Who do you believe
as to whether or not
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the cerebellum was damaged?
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[Goldberg]
There were many witnesses
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at Parkland and Bethesda
who, in addition to seeing
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damaged cerebellum,
also testified
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to seeing a severely
damaged brain.
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-At Parkland,
we have witnesses.
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One,
Dr. Midgett saw brain matter
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sprayed all over
the interior of the limousine.
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[Goldberg]
Interestingly,
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the Secret Service washed out
parts of the limo
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before shipping it
to Washington,
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thus removing brain, blood,
and tissue evidence
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from the crime scene.
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-Anybody
who's seen the Zapruder film
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can see Kennedy's head explodes
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and debris flies
all over the place.
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Now Jackie Kennedy
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climbed out onto
the trunk of the limousine,
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picked up a chunk
of the president's brain,
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had it with her, took it in,
and gave it to
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one of the doctors
at Parkland Hospital.
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-And then we have
Dr. McClelland talking about
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the large clump
of the cerebellum
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that fell out onto
the emergency room bed.
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-And when you
look at the autopsy photographs
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of the brain,
which I've seen the originals of,
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you can just see
that the brain is disrupted.
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But very little
of the tissue is missing.
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Then we look at the autopsy
report of the brain,
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at what they call the
supplemental brain examination.
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The brain in evidence,
that's weighed there,
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weighs 1,500 grams.
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-Fifteen hundred grams is--
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is above the average weight
of an adult male brain.
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There was one report
of 8,000 autopsies,
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and the average weight
of an adult male brain
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was 1,336 grams,
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so they're saying that
President Kennedy's brain
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was well above
the average weight.
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-Where did all that brain tissue disappear to
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that flies around Dealey Plaza, that's--
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00:10:46,271 --> 00:10:47,981
that Jackie has in her hand,
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00:10:48,065 --> 00:10:49,775
that everybody's picking
off of their clothes?
204
00:10:49,858 --> 00:10:52,986
-An FBI agent, Frank O'Neill,
told the review board
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00:10:53,070 --> 00:10:55,906
that over half of the mass
of the brain was missing.
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00:10:55,989 --> 00:10:57,908
He saw the brain removed
at the autopsy.
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00:10:57,991 --> 00:10:59,743
A lot of the mass missing
was in the back.
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00:10:59,826 --> 00:11:02,329
That's what mortician
Tom Robinson said.
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00:11:02,579 --> 00:11:05,290
-So it's impossible
for the actual weight
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00:11:05,374 --> 00:11:08,293
of President Kennedy's brain
to be 1,500 grams.
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00:11:08,835 --> 00:11:10,087
This is just one more reason
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00:11:10,170 --> 00:11:12,547
why this cannot be
President Kennedy's brain,
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00:11:12,881 --> 00:11:15,967
uh, the photographs that we have
stored at the Archives.
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00:11:16,843 --> 00:11:20,180
-What's the purpose
of sectioning a brain,
215
00:11:20,263 --> 00:11:21,515
and how is it done?
216
00:11:21,765 --> 00:11:26,061
-When a brain is to be
examined in detail, uh, you--
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00:11:26,144 --> 00:11:27,813
you don't do it
in the fresh state.
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00:11:28,063 --> 00:11:30,816
A fresh brain
has the consistency
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00:11:30,899 --> 00:11:33,360
of a well-done soft-boiled egg.
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00:11:33,443 --> 00:11:34,486
I don't mean to be crude,
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00:11:34,569 --> 00:11:37,114
but this is the best metaphor
I can think of.
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00:11:37,197 --> 00:11:39,741
You fix it in formalin,
and in two weeks,
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00:11:39,825 --> 00:11:43,370
the consistency becomes
that of a hard-boiled egg.
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00:11:43,453 --> 00:11:47,082
And now, think of
slicing a hard-boiled egg.
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00:11:47,541 --> 00:11:50,335
They say, and look at
the Warren Commission report,
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00:11:50,419 --> 00:11:52,754
look at the autopsy report,
it says,
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00:11:52,838 --> 00:11:56,258
serial sections,
parallel sections, of the brain
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00:11:56,341 --> 00:11:59,803
are not made in order
to preserve the specimen.
229
00:12:00,137 --> 00:12:02,097
Preserve the specimen?
For whom?
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00:12:02,180 --> 00:12:04,141
For Jacqueline Kennedy's
mantelpiece?
231
00:12:04,307 --> 00:12:05,725
For the president's
grandchildren?
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00:12:05,809 --> 00:12:07,811
For a museum?
Preserve it for whom?
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00:12:08,270 --> 00:12:09,521
-Without sectioning the brain,
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00:12:09,604 --> 00:12:11,731
uh, there was no way
for them to--
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00:12:11,815 --> 00:12:15,735
to properly trace
the trajectory of the wounds.
236
00:12:15,819 --> 00:12:17,904
-The review board
had a consultant,
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00:12:18,822 --> 00:12:20,574
a renowned
forensic pathologist.
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00:12:21,825 --> 00:12:23,326
He looked at the
brain photographs
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00:12:23,410 --> 00:12:26,496
and he said, "This is
a very well-fixed brain.
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00:12:27,164 --> 00:12:29,708
It's all gray.
It's not pink at all.
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00:12:29,791 --> 00:12:32,794
It's been fixed for two
or three weeks in formaldehyde."
242
00:12:33,044 --> 00:12:34,713
It's been fixed
at least two weeks,
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00:12:34,796 --> 00:12:36,006
maybe as long as three weeks.
244
00:12:36,256 --> 00:12:38,216
I looked at Jeremy Gunn
and he looked at me,
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00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:39,718
and the hair stood up
on the back of my neck
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00:12:40,093 --> 00:12:43,263
because I knew
that JFK's brain was examined
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00:12:44,222 --> 00:12:46,183
less than three days
after he was killed.
248
00:12:46,641 --> 00:12:48,518
-One can only imagine
that they wanted
249
00:12:48,602 --> 00:12:51,563
the damage to the brain
to be consistent with
250
00:12:51,646 --> 00:12:54,399
the hypothesis that
Oswald had done the shooting.
251
00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:56,151
So if you had a defect
252
00:12:56,234 --> 00:12:57,360
going all the way
to the back of the head,
253
00:12:57,444 --> 00:12:59,362
like so many witnesses
testified to it,
254
00:12:59,696 --> 00:13:04,201
it might raise questions
about whether that huge defect
255
00:13:04,284 --> 00:13:05,494
could have been caused--
been caused by
256
00:13:05,577 --> 00:13:06,745
a single shot to the head,
257
00:13:06,828 --> 00:13:08,497
as Oswald was
supposed to have done.
258
00:13:08,955 --> 00:13:11,541
-There are two photographs
of the brain at the Archives.
259
00:13:11,625 --> 00:13:13,585
I viewed those in 2015.
260
00:13:14,085 --> 00:13:16,171
The brain looked to me
to be distorted.
261
00:13:16,296 --> 00:13:18,381
My first thought was
that the brain had been sitting
262
00:13:18,465 --> 00:13:20,467
in a jar of formaldehyde
for a long time.
263
00:13:21,718 --> 00:13:25,388
At a teaching hospital, there
was no shortage of brains.
264
00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:27,349
Autopsies were very frequent.
265
00:13:27,432 --> 00:13:31,061
Frequently, the brain was saved
for teaching medical students,
266
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,189
so it would not have been
difficult to find a brain,
267
00:13:34,272 --> 00:13:36,149
a replacement
for these photographs.
268
00:13:42,697 --> 00:13:46,117
-Dr. Humes destroyed
his original autopsy notes.
269
00:13:46,201 --> 00:13:48,245
Now, Dr. Humes,
the chief autopsy pathologist,
270
00:13:48,328 --> 00:13:49,913
and what we all know as doctors,
271
00:13:50,205 --> 00:13:52,040
notes taken
while you're doing something
272
00:13:52,123 --> 00:13:54,000
are much,
are much more important,
273
00:13:54,209 --> 00:13:57,254
and are likely to be
closer to the truth
274
00:13:57,337 --> 00:13:58,588
than anything you write later.
275
00:13:58,672 --> 00:14:01,132
And he admitted that he--
he destroyed autopsy notes.
276
00:14:01,341 --> 00:14:03,635
-You destroyed
your original notes
277
00:14:03,718 --> 00:14:05,136
in a medical legal autopsy?
278
00:14:05,220 --> 00:14:08,431
And remember, that night,
Oswald is still alive.
279
00:14:08,515 --> 00:14:11,476
You're going to be asked,
Doctor, at some point in time,
280
00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:14,729
under oath,
to give sworn testimony,
281
00:14:14,813 --> 00:14:16,940
"Why did you destroy
those notes, Doctor?
282
00:14:17,023 --> 00:14:19,985
Doesn't a pathologist
keep his notes?"
283
00:14:20,151 --> 00:14:22,737
-And he said, "Well, I just
destroyed my own autopsy notes
284
00:14:22,821 --> 00:14:25,073
because they were splattered
with the president's blood.
285
00:14:25,156 --> 00:14:27,993
And I didn't want them to become
objects of morbid curiosity."
286
00:14:28,201 --> 00:14:30,161
The third doctor, Dr. Finck,
who was there,
287
00:14:30,245 --> 00:14:31,371
also wrote some notes
288
00:14:31,454 --> 00:14:33,081
and complained bitterly
about the fact
289
00:14:33,164 --> 00:14:34,708
that his notes disappeared, too.
290
00:14:34,833 --> 00:14:36,876
-He was so upset
because he had to go home
291
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,296
and reconstruct
all his notes from memory.
292
00:14:40,213 --> 00:14:42,591
[Goldberg]
Today, after almost 60 years,
293
00:14:42,799 --> 00:14:46,177
due to an incomplete
and questionable autopsy,
294
00:14:46,261 --> 00:14:48,847
no one can say for sure
what happened.
295
00:14:49,306 --> 00:14:51,391
A riddle, like the Sphinx.
296
00:14:54,728 --> 00:14:58,940
The complete set of autopsy
and brain examination photographs
297
00:14:59,024 --> 00:15:01,610
are housed
at the National Archives,
298
00:15:01,693 --> 00:15:04,738
but are only available
to Congressional researchers
299
00:15:04,821 --> 00:15:08,491
and those experts authorized
by the Kennedy family.
300
00:15:09,326 --> 00:15:11,453
-Who was
the autopsy photographer?
301
00:15:11,745 --> 00:15:12,787
-John Stringer.
302
00:15:12,954 --> 00:15:15,582
He was a Navy civilian.
He was widely respected.
303
00:15:15,665 --> 00:15:17,834
He had written a textbook
on medical photography
304
00:15:17,917 --> 00:15:18,835
for the Navy.
305
00:15:18,918 --> 00:15:20,128
So he was
the photographer of record.
306
00:15:20,211 --> 00:15:22,380
He photographed
the autopsy itself,
307
00:15:22,464 --> 00:15:25,050
and also photographed
the president's brain
308
00:15:25,300 --> 00:15:26,343
three days later.
309
00:15:26,593 --> 00:15:29,304
-So the brain
autopsy or autopsies,
310
00:15:29,387 --> 00:15:33,099
there were probably
two such events, occurred later,
311
00:15:33,183 --> 00:15:35,060
and were not done
on November 22nd.
312
00:15:35,477 --> 00:15:37,937
John Stringer reports
that he was present
313
00:15:38,021 --> 00:15:39,272
at the brain autopsy,
314
00:15:39,356 --> 00:15:42,108
which apparently occurred
on the Monday after,
315
00:15:42,192 --> 00:15:43,943
which would have been
November 25th.
316
00:15:44,152 --> 00:15:47,072
-We were very careful
to question Mr. Stringer
317
00:15:47,155 --> 00:15:48,907
at the very beginning
of his deposition
318
00:15:48,990 --> 00:15:50,950
about all
the photographs he took,
319
00:15:51,034 --> 00:15:54,204
and ask him what kind of film
he used for black and white.
320
00:15:54,287 --> 00:15:55,830
What kind of film
he used for color.
321
00:15:56,247 --> 00:15:57,624
Jeremy Gunn showed Stringer
322
00:15:57,707 --> 00:16:01,252
the color positive
transparencies of the brain.
323
00:16:01,795 --> 00:16:04,381
And Stringer immediately noted,
"Well, these aren't Kodak.
324
00:16:04,464 --> 00:16:06,257
These might be ANSCO."
"Also," he says,
325
00:16:06,341 --> 00:16:08,510
"I don't see the name of
the manufacturer on here, but"
326
00:16:08,677 --> 00:16:10,387
he said, "these might
be ANSCO," he says,
327
00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:12,305
"but these don't have the right
notches in the corner."
328
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:14,724
So Jeremy Gunn said,
"Did you use this film
329
00:16:14,808 --> 00:16:17,185
with these notches in it
when you shot the brain?"
330
00:16:17,268 --> 00:16:18,728
And he says, "Not as far as I know."
331
00:16:18,812 --> 00:16:22,232
Half of the brain photos
are taken of a brain from above.
332
00:16:22,315 --> 00:16:23,483
Superior views.
333
00:16:23,692 --> 00:16:25,026
Which is what Stringer said
he shot
334
00:16:25,193 --> 00:16:26,778
of the complete organ.
335
00:16:27,028 --> 00:16:29,406
But the other half of the brain
photos in the Archives
336
00:16:29,489 --> 00:16:32,242
are taken of the bottom,
called basilar views.
337
00:16:32,617 --> 00:16:34,035
"Did you take basilar views?"
338
00:16:34,119 --> 00:16:36,037
And Stringer said,
"No, not as far as I know."
339
00:16:36,121 --> 00:16:39,082
-He testified to, as did, uh,
340
00:16:39,165 --> 00:16:41,209
uh, two of the autopsy
pathologists,
341
00:16:41,543 --> 00:16:44,713
that they took photographs
of Jack Kennedy's head
342
00:16:44,796 --> 00:16:47,048
by peeling back the scalp
to demonstrate
343
00:16:47,132 --> 00:16:49,467
the entrance wound
in the back of the skull,
344
00:16:49,718 --> 00:16:51,302
both from the inside
of the skull
345
00:16:51,386 --> 00:16:52,637
and the outside of the skull.
346
00:16:52,887 --> 00:16:54,639
There are no such photographs
in the file.
347
00:16:55,348 --> 00:16:58,476
-What we have here is evidence
348
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,896
that impugns the authenticity
of the brain photographs
349
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:03,189
in the National Archives.
350
00:17:03,398 --> 00:17:06,359
If there was a trial today,
these brain photographs
351
00:17:06,443 --> 00:17:08,236
would not be admissible
as evidence.
352
00:17:08,653 --> 00:17:11,156
[Goldberg] Doesn't this all
lead to the question,
353
00:17:11,239 --> 00:17:13,783
if Stringer did not
take these photographs,
354
00:17:13,908 --> 00:17:15,160
then who did?
355
00:17:21,124 --> 00:17:24,461
Robert Knudsen was one
of the most fascinating stories
356
00:17:24,544 --> 00:17:26,296
that the Review Board
encountered.
357
00:17:26,379 --> 00:17:28,631
Knudsen was a Navy photographer
358
00:17:28,715 --> 00:17:31,926
who was detailed
to the White House in 1958.
359
00:17:32,051 --> 00:17:34,971
If you read his obituaries
in The New York Times
360
00:17:35,054 --> 00:17:37,390
and the Washington Post,
you will see
361
00:17:37,474 --> 00:17:38,933
that he is credited with
362
00:17:39,017 --> 00:17:41,186
photographing
Kennedy's autopsy,
363
00:17:41,269 --> 00:17:44,314
except officially, he was not.
364
00:17:44,814 --> 00:17:47,609
[Douglas Horne] Robert Knudsen
was not interviewed
365
00:17:47,692 --> 00:17:48,902
by the Warren Commission.
366
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:52,572
So they finally found
Robert Knudsen in 1978.
367
00:17:53,031 --> 00:17:55,158
And to its credit,
the House Select Committee
368
00:17:55,325 --> 00:17:56,618
did a deposition of him.
369
00:17:56,951 --> 00:17:59,454
To their discredit,
they never published it,
370
00:17:59,537 --> 00:18:00,955
they buried it for 50 years.
371
00:18:01,498 --> 00:18:03,541
And it got released in 1993.
372
00:18:03,917 --> 00:18:05,251
And I know why they buried it.
373
00:18:05,335 --> 00:18:08,463
Because everything he told them
about autopsy photography
374
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:10,924
contradicted what they thought
they knew in the official record.
375
00:18:11,216 --> 00:18:12,592
-What did Knudsen tell them?
376
00:18:13,134 --> 00:18:16,137
-So he says, "Berkeley
had me develop
377
00:18:16,221 --> 00:18:19,140
these black and white negatives
on Saturday, November 23rd,
378
00:18:19,224 --> 00:18:20,391
and that's when
I saw photographs
379
00:18:20,475 --> 00:18:21,684
of probes in the body."
380
00:18:22,060 --> 00:18:23,102
"Well, they didn't like that."
381
00:18:23,186 --> 00:18:24,813
They really didn't know
whether to believe him or not,
382
00:18:24,896 --> 00:18:26,648
because there are no pictures
of probes in the body,
383
00:18:26,731 --> 00:18:27,816
in the official collection.
384
00:18:27,899 --> 00:18:29,901
But he was sure that
he developed those negatives
385
00:18:29,984 --> 00:18:30,985
and saw them.
386
00:18:31,444 --> 00:18:33,863
-He has never said
he took photographs of the brain,
387
00:18:33,947 --> 00:18:35,824
but he implies
that he was very busy
388
00:18:35,907 --> 00:18:37,492
taking photographs of the body.
389
00:18:37,867 --> 00:18:39,661
His wife was interviewed later
390
00:18:39,744 --> 00:18:42,080
by the Assassination
Records Review Board.
391
00:18:42,205 --> 00:18:45,458
He told her
that the photographs had been burned,
392
00:18:45,667 --> 00:18:47,418
deliberately,
by the Secret Service,
393
00:18:47,961 --> 00:18:50,046
and that one photograph
in particular,
394
00:18:50,129 --> 00:18:51,631
presumably the back
of the head,
395
00:18:51,714 --> 00:18:53,508
had been severely altered.
396
00:18:53,591 --> 00:18:57,720
Gloria Knudsen was so disturbed
by this after his death in 1989
397
00:18:57,804 --> 00:19:00,473
that she actually contacted
some of his colleagues
398
00:19:00,557 --> 00:19:02,934
there in the Navy,
and they assured her
399
00:19:03,017 --> 00:19:05,687
that this was what
he had told them, too.
400
00:19:06,354 --> 00:19:08,481
In fact, he had told them
401
00:19:08,773 --> 00:19:13,236
that he had seen photographs
of the back of JFK's head
402
00:19:13,319 --> 00:19:17,532
that showed a large wound,
low in the back of the head.
403
00:19:17,699 --> 00:19:20,451
-Stringer's still the autopsy
photographer of record.
404
00:19:20,869 --> 00:19:23,788
I think they both took pictures.
And I personally think
405
00:19:23,872 --> 00:19:25,498
that many of John Stringer's
pictures
406
00:19:25,582 --> 00:19:27,292
never made it into
the official collection.
407
00:19:27,375 --> 00:19:28,710
And a lot of the ones
we're looking at
408
00:19:28,793 --> 00:19:30,211
are Robert Knudsen's pictures.
409
00:19:31,421 --> 00:19:32,672
[David Mantik]
Saundra Spencer worked
410
00:19:32,755 --> 00:19:36,467
at the Anacostia Facility,
the Naval Photographic Center,
411
00:19:36,593 --> 00:19:38,553
which is quite separate
from the Bethesda lab.
412
00:19:39,137 --> 00:19:42,765
And that weekend, she received
film from both James Fox
413
00:19:42,932 --> 00:19:45,268
in the Secret Service,
and from Robert Knudsen.
414
00:19:45,476 --> 00:19:48,104
[Douglas Horne] The photographs
that Saundra Spencer developed,
415
00:19:48,187 --> 00:19:50,440
which never made it
into the official record.
416
00:19:50,690 --> 00:19:52,984
The only evidence we have
of them is her testimony.
417
00:19:55,111 --> 00:19:57,113
Saundra Spencer
was visibly upset
418
00:19:57,196 --> 00:19:59,824
when she looked at the
official autopsy photographs.
419
00:19:59,991 --> 00:20:00,992
She started to cry.
420
00:20:01,075 --> 00:20:02,410
[Oliver Stone]
In front of the Review Board?
421
00:20:02,493 --> 00:20:03,536
[Douglas Horne] Yes,
she started to cry
422
00:20:03,620 --> 00:20:04,746
in front of Jeremy and I,
423
00:20:04,829 --> 00:20:06,497
and the person
from the Archives.
424
00:20:06,748 --> 00:20:09,375
Because, she said,
"I developed pictures
425
00:20:09,459 --> 00:20:11,628
of him and his family
for almost three years,
426
00:20:11,753 --> 00:20:12,962
and he never looked like this."
427
00:20:13,046 --> 00:20:14,714
And she said,
"He did not look this bad
428
00:20:15,131 --> 00:20:17,216
in the photographs
I developed on Sunday."
429
00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:19,886
She said, "He looks terrible
in these photographs.
430
00:20:19,969 --> 00:20:20,970
He's all beat up.
431
00:20:21,054 --> 00:20:22,847
There's blood everywhere,
that open body cavity."
432
00:20:22,931 --> 00:20:24,807
She said, "There were
no open body cavities.
433
00:20:24,891 --> 00:20:26,809
It was very cleaned up.
It was very respectful."
434
00:20:26,893 --> 00:20:28,686
And in one of the photographs
she developed,
435
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,189
there was a brain,
an intact brain
436
00:20:31,272 --> 00:20:34,067
sitting next to the body,
the nude body of the president.
437
00:20:34,484 --> 00:20:36,152
Strange, first of all,
that it's intact
438
00:20:36,235 --> 00:20:38,947
because we know
from FBI Agent Frank O'Neill
439
00:20:39,030 --> 00:20:41,199
that the brain was
more than half missing
440
00:20:41,366 --> 00:20:42,825
when they removed it
from the cranium.
441
00:20:44,285 --> 00:20:46,371
[David Mantik] Jeremy Gunn
once made a comment.
442
00:20:46,454 --> 00:20:49,040
He said, "It's as if
the autopsy materials
443
00:20:49,415 --> 00:20:52,335
were designed to hide
what was really happening
444
00:20:52,835 --> 00:20:55,129
as opposed to what
they should usually do.
445
00:20:55,213 --> 00:20:58,424
They're supposed to reveal
the full extent of things."
446
00:20:59,258 --> 00:21:01,219
[Douglas Horne]
On November 1st, 1966,
447
00:21:01,344 --> 00:21:02,804
the National Archives
448
00:21:02,887 --> 00:21:05,056
and an official from
the Department of Justice
449
00:21:05,139 --> 00:21:07,767
met with Humes, Boswell,
450
00:21:08,059 --> 00:21:11,270
photographer John Stringer
and the radiologist Ebersole.
451
00:21:11,437 --> 00:21:14,023
And they looked at
the autopsy photographs
452
00:21:14,399 --> 00:21:15,441
for the first time.
453
00:21:15,566 --> 00:21:18,987
And they created a catalog,
an inventory, simply saying:
454
00:21:19,070 --> 00:21:20,822
this is what
this picture describes.
455
00:21:21,030 --> 00:21:25,118
During this discussion,
the DOJ witness, Mr. Belcher,
456
00:21:25,201 --> 00:21:26,285
who was an attorney,
457
00:21:26,661 --> 00:21:28,663
noted they were discussing
missing photographs.
458
00:21:28,913 --> 00:21:30,915
Jeremy Gunn, my boss,
the General Counsel,
459
00:21:30,999 --> 00:21:34,377
did ask why these people
signed an inventory
460
00:21:34,460 --> 00:21:35,878
which they knew not to be true.
461
00:21:36,129 --> 00:21:38,715
And Stringer said,
"Well, some people do object,
462
00:21:38,798 --> 00:21:40,091
but they don't last very long."
463
00:21:40,717 --> 00:21:43,386
[Goldberg]
An inventory of autopsy materials
464
00:21:43,469 --> 00:21:47,432
submitted in 1965
to the National Archives
465
00:21:47,765 --> 00:21:50,226
listed microscopic
tissue slides,
466
00:21:50,476 --> 00:21:52,562
and a stainless steel container
467
00:21:52,645 --> 00:21:56,190
containing gross material,
presumably the brain.
468
00:21:56,774 --> 00:21:58,401
-In August of '72,
469
00:21:58,568 --> 00:22:00,653
I'm there at the
National Archives,
470
00:22:00,737 --> 00:22:01,821
and I'm looking.
471
00:22:01,904 --> 00:22:05,033
I have the executive
agreement of April '65
472
00:22:05,116 --> 00:22:08,369
and I have the inventory
of October '66,
473
00:22:08,453 --> 00:22:10,580
a year and a half later.
Ah-ha!
474
00:22:11,164 --> 00:22:14,667
In addition to some X-rays and
some photos that are missing,
475
00:22:15,001 --> 00:22:18,713
there's a large metal box that
obviously contained the brain,
476
00:22:19,172 --> 00:22:24,218
listed in '65,
no longer listed in '66.
477
00:22:24,302 --> 00:22:26,262
[smacks kiss]
Goodbye, brain.
478
00:22:26,971 --> 00:22:28,306
-And the tissue slides
479
00:22:28,431 --> 00:22:30,850
that they'd taken
have disappeared from evidence.
480
00:22:30,933 --> 00:22:33,311
And people say, well, what difference
do the tissue slides make?
481
00:22:33,394 --> 00:22:34,896
I'll tell you
what evidence they make.
482
00:22:34,979 --> 00:22:37,482
When you do a little biopsy
of that tissue around there,
483
00:22:37,565 --> 00:22:40,985
you can tell whether the bullet
entered there, or exited there,
484
00:22:41,069 --> 00:22:44,280
by whether you find
dust particles from the lead.
485
00:22:44,655 --> 00:22:46,157
-You don't have the brain.
486
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,243
This is the heart,
no pun intended,
487
00:22:49,327 --> 00:22:50,912
of the defendant's case.
488
00:22:50,995 --> 00:22:52,872
Mr. Prosecutor,
you don't have the brain.
489
00:22:52,955 --> 00:22:54,165
You're out of here.
490
00:22:54,373 --> 00:22:56,542
And as we sit
and talk here today,
491
00:22:56,667 --> 00:22:59,837
all these years later,
that brain remains missing.
492
00:23:01,714 --> 00:23:03,382
-I'd hate to be
in your shoes today.
493
00:23:04,634 --> 00:23:05,676
You have a lot to think about.
494
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:06,928
You've seen much
hidden evidence
495
00:23:07,011 --> 00:23:08,638
the American public
has never seen.
496
00:23:10,389 --> 00:23:12,517
You know, going back
to when we were children,
497
00:23:13,726 --> 00:23:15,520
I think that most of us
in this courtroom
498
00:23:15,603 --> 00:23:18,564
thought that justice
came into being automatically.
499
00:23:19,607 --> 00:23:20,983
That virtue
was its own reward.
500
00:23:21,067 --> 00:23:23,236
That good
will triumph over evil.
501
00:23:24,904 --> 00:23:27,490
But as we get older,
we know this just isn't true.
502
00:23:28,741 --> 00:23:31,369
Individual human beings
have to create justice,
503
00:23:31,452 --> 00:23:32,745
and this is not easy
504
00:23:34,288 --> 00:23:36,833
because the truth
often poses a threat to power,
505
00:23:37,834 --> 00:23:40,962
and one often has to fight power
at great risk to themselves.
506
00:23:41,170 --> 00:23:43,422
[Goldberg] After the film
JFK was released,
507
00:23:43,506 --> 00:23:46,175
several doctors went
to the National Archives
508
00:23:46,259 --> 00:23:48,594
to view the X-rays
of Kennedy's skull.
509
00:23:49,262 --> 00:23:51,556
They saw details
in these X-rays
510
00:23:51,639 --> 00:23:53,933
which presented
yet another problem
511
00:23:54,016 --> 00:23:55,810
for the Warren Report's claim
512
00:23:55,977 --> 00:23:59,272
that Kennedy
was only shot from the rear.
513
00:23:59,856 --> 00:24:02,233
-Well, the government
investigations did claim
514
00:24:02,316 --> 00:24:04,652
that there was no evidence
of a shot from the front.
515
00:24:05,987 --> 00:24:08,030
But they didn't
tell us a few things
516
00:24:08,114 --> 00:24:09,448
that were very important,
517
00:24:10,032 --> 00:24:12,076
which we have learned
only in recent years.
518
00:24:12,785 --> 00:24:17,165
We have seen tiny metal
fragments right at the forehead.
519
00:24:17,748 --> 00:24:19,959
-When you look at the X-rays
520
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,087
that are stored at
the Archives now,
521
00:24:23,171 --> 00:24:26,632
on the lateral X-ray,
there is a fragment trail
522
00:24:26,883 --> 00:24:29,385
that actually
expands from front to back,
523
00:24:30,136 --> 00:24:32,054
and there are dozens
of very tiny
524
00:24:32,138 --> 00:24:35,266
dust-like fragment particles
up in this location.
525
00:24:35,975 --> 00:24:37,476
-Now, why is that important?
526
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,356
Well, what we know is that the larger
bullet fragments travel farther,
527
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,777
whereas the smaller ones tend
to stay near the entry site.
528
00:24:47,403 --> 00:24:49,488
That's what we see
on these X-rays.
529
00:24:50,239 --> 00:24:53,284
In other words, we can
reasonably interpret these
530
00:24:53,367 --> 00:24:55,661
as being consistent
with a frontal bullet,
531
00:24:55,745 --> 00:24:58,998
but being radically inconsistent
with a posterior bullet.
532
00:24:59,290 --> 00:25:01,834
-And that's not
evidence you can erase.
533
00:25:01,918 --> 00:25:04,086
You can't make that disappear, but that's--
534
00:25:04,170 --> 00:25:06,339
that's, you know, incontrovertible evidence
535
00:25:06,422 --> 00:25:08,883
he was shot from the right front
by a non-jacketed bullet.
536
00:25:09,467 --> 00:25:11,135
[Goldberg]
This new X-ray evidence,
537
00:25:11,219 --> 00:25:15,806
combined with the Review Board's
declassification of 40 witnesses
538
00:25:15,890 --> 00:25:18,392
who saw a hole in the back
of Kennedy's head,
539
00:25:18,559 --> 00:25:22,939
constitutes powerful evidence
of a shot from the front.
540
00:25:33,324 --> 00:25:36,410
Because three shells
were found on the sixth floor
541
00:25:36,494 --> 00:25:39,080
of the Texas School
Book Depository,
542
00:25:39,163 --> 00:25:42,959
the Warren Commission was
limited to only three shots.
543
00:25:43,501 --> 00:25:46,379
But one of the problems
with CE 399,
544
00:25:46,462 --> 00:25:51,133
as Joseph Dolce said,
was its nearly-pristine condition.
545
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:54,804
Especially when compared
with bullets the commission tested.
546
00:25:54,929 --> 00:25:57,765
-"No, it could not have
caused all the wounds.
547
00:25:58,140 --> 00:26:01,394
Because our experiments
have showed, beyond any doubt,
548
00:26:01,727 --> 00:26:03,396
that merely shooting the wrist
549
00:26:03,771 --> 00:26:05,564
deformed the bullet drastically."
550
00:26:06,065 --> 00:26:07,233
[Goldberg]
As it turns out,
551
00:26:07,316 --> 00:26:10,319
there was an extra bullet,
and it was misshapen.
552
00:26:10,695 --> 00:26:12,071
After the assassination,
553
00:26:12,154 --> 00:26:14,407
the motorcade raced
to Parkland Hospital,
554
00:26:14,490 --> 00:26:16,534
where the
emergency room doctors
555
00:26:16,617 --> 00:26:18,369
tried to save
the president's life.
556
00:26:18,661 --> 00:26:20,413
After he was pronounced dead,
557
00:26:20,496 --> 00:26:23,082
Kennedy's personal physician, George Burkley,
558
00:26:23,165 --> 00:26:25,835
got in contact
with his assistant, James Young
559
00:26:25,918 --> 00:26:29,755
in the White House, and told him
to prepare for the autopsy.
560
00:26:30,214 --> 00:26:34,635
-It was James Young who ordered
Chiefs Mills and Martinell,
561
00:26:34,719 --> 00:26:37,763
their assistants,
to go to the White House
562
00:26:37,847 --> 00:26:39,515
and retrieve what they knew
were skull fragments
563
00:26:39,598 --> 00:26:41,183
in the limousine at that time.
564
00:26:41,559 --> 00:26:43,102
[Goldberg]
The presidential limousine,
565
00:26:43,185 --> 00:26:46,063
while en route to Washington,
was inspected,
566
00:26:46,147 --> 00:26:49,233
and a three-inch
triangular piece of bone
567
00:26:49,317 --> 00:26:52,862
was discovered on the floor
near the rear jump seat.
568
00:26:53,195 --> 00:26:56,073
During the autopsy,
Young sent his two assistants
569
00:26:56,157 --> 00:26:59,577
to meet the limo when it arrived
at the White House garage.
570
00:26:59,952 --> 00:27:02,330
[Randolph Robertson] And they brought back
an additional envelope
571
00:27:02,413 --> 00:27:04,540
with the bullet with the bent tip.
572
00:27:04,665 --> 00:27:06,500
He described the bullet,
brass-colored,
573
00:27:06,584 --> 00:27:09,086
about five millimeters
in diameter.
574
00:27:09,378 --> 00:27:12,089
[Goldberg] As part
of a Naval oral history project,
575
00:27:12,173 --> 00:27:16,010
Jan Herman, who had interviewed
Dr. Young on this subject,
576
00:27:16,093 --> 00:27:18,763
got in touch with Thomas Mills,
one of the two men
577
00:27:18,846 --> 00:27:22,016
who had gone to the limo
to retrieve the skull fragments.
578
00:27:22,641 --> 00:27:25,061
-Jan Herman called up Mills,
says, "Hey, do you remember
579
00:27:25,144 --> 00:27:27,938
Dr. Young calling you,
asking about this bent bullet?"
580
00:27:28,272 --> 00:27:29,940
He said, "Yeah, I remember
that and him calling me.
581
00:27:30,024 --> 00:27:31,692
And, yeah, he's remembered it."
582
00:27:31,776 --> 00:27:33,444
He says,
"Can you shed any light on it?"
583
00:27:33,527 --> 00:27:36,614
And he says, "I would rather
not talk about that."
584
00:27:37,073 --> 00:27:38,699
-You know
what happened to this bullet?
585
00:27:39,033 --> 00:27:43,371
-It went from Mills
and Martinell to Young to Humes,
586
00:27:43,454 --> 00:27:44,580
it disappears.
587
00:27:44,663 --> 00:27:47,708
That evening, there may have
been as little as four people
588
00:27:47,792 --> 00:27:50,044
who saw that bullet
before it disappeared.
589
00:27:50,294 --> 00:27:52,088
[Goldberg] The
reports of this extra bullet
590
00:27:52,171 --> 00:27:54,632
substantiate
some researchers' claim
591
00:27:54,715 --> 00:27:56,175
that there was a fourth shot
592
00:27:56,258 --> 00:27:59,720
hitting the limo
at Zapruder frame 328.
593
00:28:00,179 --> 00:28:02,890
[Randolph Robertson] The bullet itself is
important, but what's more important is
594
00:28:03,391 --> 00:28:04,600
when it struck,
595
00:28:04,683 --> 00:28:06,977
and where it came from.
596
00:28:07,853 --> 00:28:10,022
And previously at 313,
597
00:28:10,106 --> 00:28:12,024
when the bullet went forward
through JFK's head,
598
00:28:12,191 --> 00:28:14,693
a small fragment
had cracked the windshield
599
00:28:14,777 --> 00:28:15,945
from the inner surface.
600
00:28:16,153 --> 00:28:20,699
Later, the final shot
was at 328 was when it struck.
601
00:28:21,450 --> 00:28:23,828
Both times, there were
flares of reflected light
602
00:28:23,911 --> 00:28:26,539
as the glass was
deformed from the impacts
603
00:28:26,872 --> 00:28:29,041
of one of a fragment,
and two of a whole bullet.
604
00:28:29,583 --> 00:28:32,878
And these two events occurred
in 0.9 seconds.
605
00:28:33,379 --> 00:28:34,713
So, therefore,
they couldn't have been shot
606
00:28:34,797 --> 00:28:35,965
from the same rifle.
607
00:28:36,382 --> 00:28:38,384
[Goldberg] The Warren
Commission's contention
608
00:28:38,467 --> 00:28:40,719
is that only three shots
were fired,
609
00:28:40,803 --> 00:28:44,265
and that one of them had
missed its target completely.
610
00:28:44,348 --> 00:28:47,476
So how does one account
for the extensive damage
611
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:48,727
to the limousine?
612
00:28:49,061 --> 00:28:50,896
-There is
a lot of damage in the car.
613
00:28:51,105 --> 00:28:54,233
The chrome strip, which went
around the windshield,
614
00:28:54,567 --> 00:28:56,277
was dented from the inside,
615
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,362
which suggests a projectile
from the rear.
616
00:28:58,863 --> 00:29:03,492
Six witnesses reported
a through and through hole
617
00:29:03,576 --> 00:29:04,743
in the windshield.
618
00:29:06,912 --> 00:29:08,122
[Goldberg]
After the Secret Service
619
00:29:08,205 --> 00:29:11,792
tried to scrub down
the interior at Parkland Hospital,
620
00:29:11,876 --> 00:29:15,129
the presidential limo
was then flown to Washington.
621
00:29:15,504 --> 00:29:19,216
The interior was completely
cleaned up within 36 hours
622
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:20,342
and the windshield
623
00:29:20,426 --> 00:29:23,971
was replaced
within 48 to 72 hours.
624
00:29:24,180 --> 00:29:27,516
The car was then shipped first
to the Ford factory in Michigan,
625
00:29:27,725 --> 00:29:29,351
and then to Cincinnati,
626
00:29:29,435 --> 00:29:33,689
where it was extensively rebuilt
by a car restoration company.
627
00:29:41,530 --> 00:29:43,616
At the trial
of New Orleans businessman
628
00:29:43,699 --> 00:29:46,535
Clay Shaw,
autopsy Dr. Pierre Finck
629
00:29:46,619 --> 00:29:50,122
shockingly revealed
that the wound in Kennedy's back
630
00:29:50,206 --> 00:29:51,373
was not dissected
631
00:29:51,457 --> 00:29:54,418
because an Army general
ordered them not to.
632
00:29:55,169 --> 00:29:57,880
The failure to perform
that standard practice
633
00:29:57,963 --> 00:30:01,383
led to a long trail
of folly and error,
634
00:30:01,592 --> 00:30:04,220
assessing
and locating this wound.
635
00:30:04,637 --> 00:30:07,014
Did the bullet
perforate the body?
636
00:30:08,307 --> 00:30:10,267
Did it connect
with the neck wound?
637
00:30:10,643 --> 00:30:13,604
Or was it perhaps made
by a piece of shrapnel
638
00:30:13,812 --> 00:30:15,731
from the pavement
in Dealey Plaza,
639
00:30:16,065 --> 00:30:18,651
creating a shallow wound
with no exit?
640
00:30:19,401 --> 00:30:22,905
-The face sheet
for the autopsy where it shows
641
00:30:22,988 --> 00:30:25,115
the front and back
silhouette of the body,
642
00:30:25,199 --> 00:30:27,618
where you mark scars
and bullet wounds and things,
643
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,538
the face sheet
showed the bullet wound
644
00:30:30,829 --> 00:30:35,376
in the back
at the level of thoracic vertebra T-3
645
00:30:35,459 --> 00:30:37,670
which is five and a half
to six inches below,
646
00:30:37,753 --> 00:30:39,672
exactly where
Dr. Berkeley had it,
647
00:30:39,964 --> 00:30:41,215
in the death certificate.
648
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:43,717
[Goldberg]
That location coincided with
649
00:30:43,801 --> 00:30:46,845
what the two FBI agents
wrote in their report.
650
00:30:47,555 --> 00:30:49,848
Both Sibert and O'Neill disagreed
651
00:30:49,932 --> 00:30:51,725
with the Warren Report's depiction
652
00:30:51,809 --> 00:30:55,312
of both the rear skull wound
and the back wound
653
00:30:55,396 --> 00:30:59,275
when the Review Board showed them
the pictures in 1997.
654
00:30:59,608 --> 00:31:01,443
This is what Sibert had to say
655
00:31:01,527 --> 00:31:04,613
about the drawings
commissioned by Arlen Specter:
656
00:31:05,197 --> 00:31:06,115
"What a liar.
657
00:31:06,198 --> 00:31:08,534
I feel he got his orders
from above.
658
00:31:08,617 --> 00:31:10,661
How far above? I don't know."
659
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,955
They got
that single bullet theory
660
00:31:13,038 --> 00:31:16,166
by moving that back wound
up to the base of the neck."
661
00:31:16,834 --> 00:31:19,795
The single-bullet theory
evolved over time,
662
00:31:19,878 --> 00:31:23,215
and began with a problem
the doctors had at the autopsy,
663
00:31:23,299 --> 00:31:25,676
finding an exit point
for the back wound,
664
00:31:25,759 --> 00:31:28,762
and ending
when Arlen Specter decided
665
00:31:28,846 --> 00:31:31,056
the bullet needed
to hit two victims.
666
00:31:31,849 --> 00:31:32,766
[Cyril Wecht]
Darrell Tomlinson,
667
00:31:32,850 --> 00:31:34,560
a maintenance man
at Parkland Hospital,
668
00:31:34,810 --> 00:31:37,313
passing by the ER,
found the stretchers
669
00:31:37,521 --> 00:31:39,815
blocking the way, bent down,
moved the stretcher,
670
00:31:39,898 --> 00:31:41,191
and there was a bullet.
671
00:31:41,275 --> 00:31:43,777
Keep in mind,
it really is a magic bullet
672
00:31:43,861 --> 00:31:46,280
because on the night
of the autopsy,
673
00:31:46,363 --> 00:31:50,784
Friday, November 22nd, 1963,
Humes and Boswell,
674
00:31:50,868 --> 00:31:52,953
these two
military pathologists,
675
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,332
they missed a bullet hole
in the front of the president's neck,
676
00:31:56,415 --> 00:31:57,499
the night of the autopsy.
677
00:31:57,583 --> 00:31:59,835
They saw a tracheostomy.
678
00:31:59,918 --> 00:32:02,004
Indeed, there was
a tracheostomy.
679
00:32:02,087 --> 00:32:04,757
The doctors
at Parkland Hospital earlier that day
680
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,508
had determined that the bullet
681
00:32:06,592 --> 00:32:08,719
had fortuitously ripped
through the trachea.
682
00:32:08,886 --> 00:32:11,013
So they enlarged that bullet hole.
683
00:32:11,096 --> 00:32:12,556
Let me finish on Friday night.
684
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:13,557
What to do?
685
00:32:13,641 --> 00:32:15,392
Hey, we've got a bullet hole
in the president's back,
686
00:32:15,476 --> 00:32:17,353
which they examined
with the finger,
687
00:32:17,436 --> 00:32:19,355
then with an instrument,
then took X-rays,
688
00:32:19,438 --> 00:32:21,857
then took out the lungs.
No bullets.
689
00:32:22,232 --> 00:32:24,777
God, I wish I were there
to see them sweating
690
00:32:24,860 --> 00:32:27,196
and have their underwear staining, uh,
691
00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:29,948
and well, just like you say,
a work of fiction.
692
00:32:30,032 --> 00:32:32,409
A call came in
from the FBI in Dallas
693
00:32:32,493 --> 00:32:33,619
to the FBI in D.C.
694
00:32:33,702 --> 00:32:35,204
A bullet was found!
695
00:32:35,287 --> 00:32:37,998
Now we know,
when the president
696
00:32:38,082 --> 00:32:41,001
lay on the stretcher,
supine position,
697
00:32:41,085 --> 00:32:43,170
and pressure was applied
to his chest
698
00:32:43,253 --> 00:32:45,130
for cardiopulmonary resuscitation.
699
00:32:45,214 --> 00:32:49,093
That pressure applied anteriorly,
forced the bullet,
700
00:32:49,343 --> 00:32:51,303
which had gone deeply
into the tissues,
701
00:32:51,387 --> 00:32:53,013
back out through,
like a tunnel,
702
00:32:53,097 --> 00:32:54,723
in and out,
a car in reverse.
703
00:32:54,807 --> 00:32:55,933
Bullets don't work that way.
704
00:32:56,016 --> 00:32:57,893
When a bullet goes in,
it produces damage.
705
00:32:58,060 --> 00:32:59,478
The bullet becomes encased.
706
00:33:00,062 --> 00:33:02,648
Bullets don't go
in and out like that.
707
00:33:02,731 --> 00:33:04,149
But that was their conclusion.
708
00:33:04,233 --> 00:33:08,821
It wasn't until the next morning
when Humes decided,
709
00:33:08,904 --> 00:33:10,864
"Hey, maybe we oughta talk
with the surgeons
710
00:33:10,948 --> 00:33:12,282
at Parkland Hospital."
711
00:33:12,366 --> 00:33:14,451
And now they learned
for the first time
712
00:33:14,535 --> 00:33:16,412
that there was a tracheostomy
713
00:33:16,495 --> 00:33:18,997
superimposed upon
a bullet wound.
714
00:33:19,081 --> 00:33:22,167
So now, as of Saturday,
November 23rd,
715
00:33:22,418 --> 00:33:24,878
that magic bullet is
from the front of the clothing.
716
00:33:25,212 --> 00:33:27,381
The bullet going through
six, seven inches of soft tissue
717
00:33:27,464 --> 00:33:29,425
comes out,
sees the starched white collar,
718
00:33:29,508 --> 00:33:30,426
gets frightened to death,
719
00:33:30,509 --> 00:33:32,052
plops into the front
of his clothing.
720
00:33:32,136 --> 00:33:33,387
And that's where
the bullet came from,
721
00:33:33,470 --> 00:33:35,389
found by Tomlinson
at the hospital.
722
00:33:35,472 --> 00:33:36,807
Four or five months later,
723
00:33:36,890 --> 00:33:39,393
under Arlen Specter's
single bullet theory,
724
00:33:39,518 --> 00:33:41,437
that bullet has been
rejuvenated,
725
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:42,646
it's been revitalized.
726
00:33:42,730 --> 00:33:44,481
That bullet has now gone
through Kennedy,
727
00:33:44,565 --> 00:33:46,984
through Connally,
piercing the lung,
728
00:33:47,067 --> 00:33:49,528
destroying four inches
of the right fifth rib,
729
00:33:49,611 --> 00:33:51,572
exiting from the front
of his chest,
730
00:33:51,655 --> 00:33:53,115
going into the back
of the wrist,
731
00:33:53,198 --> 00:33:55,075
shattering the distal
and the radius,
732
00:33:55,159 --> 00:33:56,994
and in a six-foot-four guy
like Connally,
733
00:33:57,077 --> 00:33:59,371
that's a big, heavy bone,
commuted fracture,
734
00:33:59,496 --> 00:34:01,540
exits from the front
of the wrist,
735
00:34:01,623 --> 00:34:02,750
goes into the left thigh.
736
00:34:02,916 --> 00:34:07,004
And now, as of April of 1964,
the stretcher bullet
737
00:34:07,254 --> 00:34:08,922
Commission Exhibit 399,
738
00:34:09,006 --> 00:34:10,591
the hero
of the Warren Commission report,
739
00:34:10,674 --> 00:34:13,051
is now
from Connally's left thigh.
740
00:34:13,218 --> 00:34:15,512
Whatever you want,
whatever you need,
741
00:34:15,596 --> 00:34:18,599
this bullet happily
and readily obliges you.
742
00:34:18,682 --> 00:34:20,809
It is indeed a magic bullet.
743
00:34:22,060 --> 00:34:23,854
[Goldberg]
And in order to make the facts
744
00:34:23,937 --> 00:34:27,316
fit the theory of one bullet
doing all this damage,
745
00:34:27,733 --> 00:34:31,653
the Warren Commission needed to
raise the wound in the back
746
00:34:31,737 --> 00:34:34,823
so that it would align
with the alleged exit wound
747
00:34:34,907 --> 00:34:36,658
in the front of Kennedy's neck.
748
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:38,869
Commissioner Gerald Ford
did this
749
00:34:38,952 --> 00:34:41,121
simply via the stroke of a pen,
750
00:34:41,205 --> 00:34:43,624
changing the description
in their report
751
00:34:43,957 --> 00:34:46,168
from back
to the back of the neck.
752
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:48,712
-As I recall,
they said about Gerald Ford,
753
00:34:48,837 --> 00:34:51,173
that he could not chew gum
and walk at the same time.
754
00:34:51,256 --> 00:34:54,176
Now, all of a sudden, he becomes
a forensic pathologist,
755
00:34:54,259 --> 00:34:56,887
and a photographer
and a criminalist and an expert,
756
00:34:56,970 --> 00:34:58,597
and he knows
where the bullet hole was,
757
00:34:58,680 --> 00:34:59,640
and he moved it up.
758
00:34:59,765 --> 00:35:02,100
[Goldberg]
But then in 1979,
759
00:35:02,184 --> 00:35:05,395
the House Select Committee
moved it lower in the back
760
00:35:05,479 --> 00:35:07,856
because they had pictures
from the autopsy.
761
00:35:07,940 --> 00:35:10,484
It is conceivable
that at the time,
762
00:35:10,567 --> 00:35:11,860
the Warren Commission thought
763
00:35:11,944 --> 00:35:15,030
no one would ever see
the autopsy photos.
764
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,783
When the Review Board
declassified the notation
765
00:35:17,866 --> 00:35:21,245
showing what Ford had done,
the former commissioner replied
766
00:35:21,328 --> 00:35:24,248
that it had nothing to do
with a conspiracy theory.
767
00:35:24,373 --> 00:35:27,125
He was only trying
to be more precise.
768
00:35:27,793 --> 00:35:31,505
This is directly contradicted
by a conversation Ford had
769
00:35:31,588 --> 00:35:35,008
with French President
Valรฉry Giscard d'Estaing.
770
00:35:35,592 --> 00:35:38,011
According to d'Estaing,
Ford told him
771
00:35:38,095 --> 00:35:40,973
the assassination was not
the work of one person.
772
00:35:41,098 --> 00:35:44,017
"It was something set-up.
We were sure it was set up.
773
00:35:44,309 --> 00:35:47,104
But we were not able to discover
by whom."
774
00:35:54,403 --> 00:35:55,529
[reporter]
Kennedy and his wife
775
00:35:55,612 --> 00:35:57,406
have a two-year-old daughter, Caroline.
776
00:35:57,489 --> 00:35:59,741
And Mrs. Kennedy is currently
expecting the birth
777
00:35:59,825 --> 00:36:00,909
of a second child.
778
00:36:04,121 --> 00:36:08,250
For his running mate in 1960,
Kennedy chose Lyndon B. Johnson,
779
00:36:08,333 --> 00:36:10,002
leader of the Senate Majority.
780
00:36:10,210 --> 00:36:12,504
[โชโชโช]
781
00:36:15,007 --> 00:36:17,259
[Donald Sutherland]
In the 1960 campaign,
782
00:36:17,467 --> 00:36:19,219
Kennedy had been advised
783
00:36:19,303 --> 00:36:22,055
by former Air Force Secretary
Stuart Symington
784
00:36:22,222 --> 00:36:25,309
that military intelligence stated
that the Russians
785
00:36:25,392 --> 00:36:28,729
had a significant advantage
in long-range atomic missiles.
786
00:36:29,229 --> 00:36:31,440
He used the issue
against Richard Nixon,
787
00:36:31,523 --> 00:36:34,568
even after he had been informed
that it was inaccurate.
788
00:36:35,569 --> 00:36:36,778
When he got into office,
789
00:36:36,862 --> 00:36:39,865
he was told by Defense Secretary
Robert McNamara
790
00:36:40,115 --> 00:36:41,742
that this was not only false,
791
00:36:42,242 --> 00:36:44,286
but America had
a huge advantage.
792
00:36:44,995 --> 00:36:48,123
This led to a meeting
in the summer of 1961.
793
00:36:48,373 --> 00:36:52,210
It included Kennedy,
CIA Director Allen Dulles,
794
00:36:52,294 --> 00:36:56,173
and chairman of the Joint Chiefs
of Staff Lyman Lemnitzer.
795
00:36:56,465 --> 00:36:59,760
In 1993,
the first official document
796
00:36:59,843 --> 00:37:02,220
describing the meeting
was declassified.
797
00:37:02,763 --> 00:37:05,390
Dulles and Lemnitzer
were advising Kennedy
798
00:37:05,474 --> 00:37:09,186
about the potential effects
of a first-strike nuclear attack
799
00:37:09,269 --> 00:37:14,191
on the USSR,
which would occur in the fall of 1963,
800
00:37:14,566 --> 00:37:16,276
a time when they predicted
801
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,737
America would have
its optimum advantage
802
00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:21,573
over Russian counter-strike
capabilities.
803
00:37:22,449 --> 00:37:25,160
The advisers wanted
to press that advantage
804
00:37:25,243 --> 00:37:27,746
to its ultimate nightmarish end.
805
00:37:28,121 --> 00:37:30,958
-You're talking about
mass murder, General, not war.
806
00:37:31,333 --> 00:37:34,461
-Mr. President, I'm not saying
we wouldn't get our hair mussed.
807
00:37:34,836 --> 00:37:39,091
But I do say no more than
ten to 20 million killed. Tops!
808
00:37:39,257 --> 00:37:40,717
Uh, depending on the breaks.
809
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:42,886
-I will not
go down in history
810
00:37:42,970 --> 00:37:45,472
as the greatest mass murderer
since Adolph Hitler!
811
00:37:45,722 --> 00:37:47,474
-Perhaps, it might be
better, Mr. President,
812
00:37:47,557 --> 00:37:49,685
if you were more concerned
with the American people
813
00:37:49,935 --> 00:37:51,478
than with your image
in the history books.
814
00:37:52,521 --> 00:37:53,939
[James Galbraith]
The importance of that meeting
815
00:37:54,022 --> 00:37:56,900
was that it showed
that the strategic planners
816
00:37:57,567 --> 00:38:00,612
did, in fact, think
of the military force
817
00:38:00,696 --> 00:38:02,197
that we were deploying
at the time
818
00:38:02,406 --> 00:38:04,282
as a first strike force,
819
00:38:04,366 --> 00:38:07,452
and not as a second-strike retaliatory force.
820
00:38:07,786 --> 00:38:09,871
And the fact
that this was the case
821
00:38:10,205 --> 00:38:14,960
was what I think tied Kennedy,
Johnson, and McNamara together
822
00:38:15,419 --> 00:38:16,878
over this entire period,
823
00:38:16,962 --> 00:38:21,633
that they simply had to keep
those missiles in their silos.
824
00:38:22,259 --> 00:38:23,927
When I called up Walt Rostow,
825
00:38:24,011 --> 00:38:26,513
who was a close friend
and colleague, by that time,
826
00:38:26,596 --> 00:38:27,848
at the University of Texas.
827
00:38:28,181 --> 00:38:29,975
I said, "Walt, I'm writing
an article
828
00:38:30,058 --> 00:38:33,478
on a meeting of the National
Security Council
829
00:38:33,562 --> 00:38:36,440
that took place
on the 20th of July, 1961."
830
00:38:37,274 --> 00:38:39,609
And he looked at me;
without any further word,
831
00:38:39,693 --> 00:38:40,652
he said, "You mean the one
832
00:38:40,736 --> 00:38:42,696
where they wanted to
blow up the world?"
833
00:38:43,655 --> 00:38:44,781
[Sutherland]
After the meeting,
834
00:38:44,865 --> 00:38:47,701
Kennedy said
to his Secretary of State, Dean Rusk,
835
00:38:48,368 --> 00:38:51,371
"And we call ourselves
the human race?"
836
00:38:54,458 --> 00:38:56,043
After his inauguration,
837
00:38:56,376 --> 00:38:58,295
Kennedy sent his aide,
Arthur Schlesinger,
838
00:38:58,712 --> 00:39:00,380
on a tour of Latin America
839
00:39:00,547 --> 00:39:03,550
to come up with a plan
to alter the Yankee gringo image
840
00:39:03,633 --> 00:39:05,427
of the United States
in the region,
841
00:39:05,844 --> 00:39:08,388
and to also neutralize
the appeal of communism.
842
00:39:09,097 --> 00:39:11,433
Kennedy organized
a huge conference
843
00:39:11,516 --> 00:39:12,976
in Punta Del Este, Uruguay,
844
00:39:13,351 --> 00:39:15,812
inviting representatives
from Latin America,
845
00:39:16,104 --> 00:39:17,647
to propose projects
846
00:39:17,731 --> 00:39:20,317
and to establish
the Alliance for Progress.
847
00:39:20,650 --> 00:39:22,694
[John F. Kennedy]
For no real progress is possible
848
00:39:23,278 --> 00:39:26,406
unless the benefits
of increased prosperity
849
00:39:26,531 --> 00:39:28,283
are shared
by the people themselves.
850
00:39:28,492 --> 00:39:30,327
[applaud]
851
00:39:31,203 --> 00:39:35,832
[Jacqueline Kennedy
speaking in Spanish]
852
00:39:40,670 --> 00:39:42,964
[cheering]
853
00:39:44,466 --> 00:39:47,344
[Robert F. Kennedy Jr.]
They tried to create a program
854
00:39:47,511 --> 00:39:49,679
that would tie US aid
855
00:39:50,138 --> 00:39:54,351
not to military control
and authoritarian
856
00:39:54,559 --> 00:39:59,564
support of US corporations,
but rather to initiatives
857
00:39:59,648 --> 00:40:01,358
that would democratize
the country,
858
00:40:01,441 --> 00:40:03,485
and that would raise
the poor out of poverty.
859
00:40:06,029 --> 00:40:07,989
[Sutherland] One of the
least-acknowledged aspects
860
00:40:08,073 --> 00:40:09,616
of Kennedy's foreign policy
861
00:40:09,908 --> 00:40:12,494
was his perspective
regarding the Middle East.
862
00:40:12,994 --> 00:40:15,622
As part of an effort
to bring balance to the region,
863
00:40:15,914 --> 00:40:18,875
Kennedy had concentrated
on forging a relationship
864
00:40:19,126 --> 00:40:21,586
with Gamal Abdel Nasser
of Egypt.
865
00:40:22,045 --> 00:40:23,964
[Philip Muehlenbeck]
Kennedy's overall policy
866
00:40:24,047 --> 00:40:25,924
towards the Middle East
had a few pillars.
867
00:40:26,007 --> 00:40:28,051
One was to take a more
even-handed approach
868
00:40:28,135 --> 00:40:30,220
towards Israel
on the Palestine issue
869
00:40:30,303 --> 00:40:31,930
than previous US presidents had.
870
00:40:32,347 --> 00:40:35,142
A second issue was
to support what he viewed as
871
00:40:35,225 --> 00:40:38,019
the progressive nationalists
in places like Egypt,
872
00:40:38,103 --> 00:40:40,230
embodied by Nasser,
and in Syria,
873
00:40:40,313 --> 00:40:42,774
as opposed to what Kennedy
referred to as
874
00:40:42,858 --> 00:40:44,860
"relics of the past," monarchies
875
00:40:44,943 --> 00:40:47,904
in places like
Saudi Arabia or Jordan.
876
00:40:48,655 --> 00:40:50,323
Nasser was one
of the foreign leaders
877
00:40:50,407 --> 00:40:53,743
that Kennedy had the most
personal correspondence with.
878
00:40:54,077 --> 00:40:56,413
They sent over a dozen letters
between each other.
879
00:40:56,830 --> 00:40:59,916
In those letters,
Kennedy would disclose to Nasser
880
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,626
some things that he was
going to do in advance,
881
00:41:01,710 --> 00:41:03,086
like weapons sales to Israel.
882
00:41:03,628 --> 00:41:05,547
So Nasser really appreciated
his communication.
883
00:41:06,256 --> 00:41:09,134
[Robert Rakove] Kennedy
discerned that Nasser actually
884
00:41:09,384 --> 00:41:11,636
had qualities
that made him an appealing
885
00:41:11,845 --> 00:41:15,015
ally for the United States
that he actually could, um,
886
00:41:15,098 --> 00:41:16,183
through the right inducements,
887
00:41:16,266 --> 00:41:18,435
forge a partnership
with Washington.
888
00:41:18,518 --> 00:41:19,728
It wouldn't be close,
889
00:41:20,228 --> 00:41:22,564
but if the United States
was generous
890
00:41:22,647 --> 00:41:24,566
in its support of
Egyptian development,
891
00:41:24,649 --> 00:41:27,110
Nasser might, as his--
as his ambassador promised,
892
00:41:27,194 --> 00:41:29,529
keep the Arab-Israeli conflict
in the ice box.
893
00:41:29,613 --> 00:41:30,572
That was the phrase.
894
00:41:31,573 --> 00:41:33,325
[Sutherland]
The United Nations had abandoned
895
00:41:33,408 --> 00:41:36,620
their plan to repatriate
Palestinian refugees.
896
00:41:37,329 --> 00:41:39,664
Kennedy took it up
as a cause with Israel.
897
00:41:40,123 --> 00:41:41,958
This would have
allowed the refugees
898
00:41:42,042 --> 00:41:44,002
a choice of staying
where they were,
899
00:41:44,336 --> 00:41:47,839
moving elsewhere,
or relocating back to Israel,
900
00:41:48,423 --> 00:41:50,175
all at the UN's expense.
901
00:41:51,468 --> 00:41:53,720
The other problem
Kennedy faced with Israel
902
00:41:53,970 --> 00:41:57,140
was the construction
of the atomic reactor at Dimona.
903
00:41:57,515 --> 00:41:58,934
JFK was strongly against
904
00:41:59,017 --> 00:42:01,144
any proliferation
of nuclear weaponry.
905
00:42:01,686 --> 00:42:04,773
He had been assured
by Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion
906
00:42:04,856 --> 00:42:08,526
that Dimona was designed
for peaceful uses of atomic energy.
907
00:42:09,361 --> 00:42:13,531
In the spring of '63, Kennedy
demanded full inspections
908
00:42:13,615 --> 00:42:16,159
by the US of the Dimona reactor,
909
00:42:16,368 --> 00:42:19,496
and threatened to place
American aid for Israel in limbo
910
00:42:19,579 --> 00:42:21,289
if no agreement was reached.
911
00:42:21,623 --> 00:42:23,750
And at the time
of his assassination,
912
00:42:23,959 --> 00:42:27,879
negotiations were in process
for biannual inspections.
913
00:42:29,547 --> 00:42:33,426
The existence of communism
so close to American shores
914
00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:35,679
kept Cuba on Kennedy's plate.
915
00:42:36,179 --> 00:42:39,975
And in late 1961,
he authorized covert efforts
916
00:42:40,058 --> 00:42:42,560
under the name
Operation Mongoose.
917
00:42:42,894 --> 00:42:46,398
General Edward Lansdale
ran the day-to-day operations
918
00:42:46,481 --> 00:42:49,442
of the project,
but Robert Kennedy was above him
919
00:42:49,526 --> 00:42:51,695
to ensure it would not
spin out of control
920
00:42:51,778 --> 00:42:53,363
as the Bay of Pigs had.
921
00:42:53,989 --> 00:42:56,574
The idea was to keep
pressure on Castro
922
00:42:56,741 --> 00:42:58,994
so that he would not
export communism
923
00:42:59,077 --> 00:43:00,578
further into Latin America
924
00:43:00,829 --> 00:43:02,831
and endanger
the Alliance for Progress.
925
00:43:03,748 --> 00:43:05,709
[Oliver Stone]
And despite later accusations
926
00:43:05,792 --> 00:43:08,837
of Kennedy's complicity
in assassination plots,
927
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,797
there is no known document
928
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,716
that's emerged
from the Mongoose files
929
00:43:12,799 --> 00:43:15,385
showing that he knew
of any such attempts.
930
00:43:16,136 --> 00:43:18,847
This seems to be a remnant
of the Eisenhower plan.
931
00:43:19,472 --> 00:43:22,600
-General Lansdale
requests of the Joint Staff
932
00:43:22,934 --> 00:43:27,981
in February of '62, he requests
that they come up with pretexts
933
00:43:28,773 --> 00:43:30,317
for a US invasion of Cuba.
934
00:43:30,859 --> 00:43:32,193
[Sutherland]
The following month,
935
00:43:32,277 --> 00:43:34,738
the Joint Chiefs of Staff presented
a plan to Kennedy
936
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,157
called Operation Northwoods,
937
00:43:37,324 --> 00:43:39,993
whereby the CIA
would secretly perform
938
00:43:40,076 --> 00:43:44,080
terrorist acts in the United States
and blame them on Castro
939
00:43:44,289 --> 00:43:47,375
to justify bombings
and an invasion of Cuba.
940
00:43:48,001 --> 00:43:50,337
The president declined
the recommendation.
941
00:43:51,254 --> 00:43:53,006
-And it takes only a few days
942
00:43:53,089 --> 00:43:56,426
before it's 'mano e mano,'
a face-to-face showdown
943
00:43:56,509 --> 00:43:59,429
between President Kennedy
and General Lemnitzer.
944
00:43:59,512 --> 00:44:00,930
Lemnitzer says,
"We got a pretext.
945
00:44:01,014 --> 00:44:03,266
We can do this."
Kennedy rebukes him.
946
00:44:03,683 --> 00:44:05,226
-Pretexts were outrageous.
947
00:44:05,435 --> 00:44:06,728
Fake an attack by Cubans
948
00:44:06,811 --> 00:44:08,438
against the Guantanamo
Bay sentries.
949
00:44:08,772 --> 00:44:12,442
Sink a US ship in Guantanamo Bay
and blame it on Cuba.
950
00:44:12,525 --> 00:44:16,196
The one that scares me the most
was very sophisticated.
951
00:44:17,447 --> 00:44:21,242
Take an airliner
and fly it as a drone over Cuba
952
00:44:21,326 --> 00:44:23,578
without any people in it
with a tape recording
953
00:44:23,661 --> 00:44:24,829
that would play,
"We're under attack,
954
00:44:24,913 --> 00:44:26,289
we're under attack
by Cuban aircraft!
955
00:44:26,373 --> 00:44:28,124
Oh, my God,
they're gonna kill us!"
956
00:44:28,208 --> 00:44:31,169
Blow up the airplane,
blow up this huge drone,
957
00:44:31,252 --> 00:44:32,212
[explosion]
958
00:44:32,295 --> 00:44:34,130
and use that to start a war.
959
00:44:34,381 --> 00:44:37,884
-Within a matter
of weeks, Lemnitzer says,
960
00:44:37,967 --> 00:44:39,344
"Well, to hell with the pretext.
961
00:44:39,427 --> 00:44:41,429
To hell with it,
let's just invade anyway."
962
00:44:41,721 --> 00:44:44,641
And you see all these plans
being sent to McNamara
963
00:44:44,849 --> 00:44:48,478
and to Kennedy
from Lemnitzer that basically say
964
00:44:48,561 --> 00:44:50,939
we gotta go in,
just never mind who cares.
965
00:44:51,439 --> 00:44:53,525
There's no pretext.
There's no rationale.
966
00:44:53,608 --> 00:44:54,859
We just, we want to do it.
967
00:44:55,235 --> 00:44:57,862
President Kennedy
has to fire Lemnitzer.
968
00:44:58,238 --> 00:45:01,366
-So the Northwoods
plan was our big coup,
969
00:45:01,491 --> 00:45:03,535
our big find in the way
of military records.
970
00:45:03,743 --> 00:45:06,204
They're universally recognized
today for their importance.
971
00:45:06,287 --> 00:45:07,997
And it's,
it's one of those releases
972
00:45:08,081 --> 00:45:09,457
that the Review Board members,
973
00:45:09,541 --> 00:45:11,960
the board members themselves
were justifiably proud of,
974
00:45:12,377 --> 00:45:14,254
that came out of
the JFK Records Act.
975
00:45:15,213 --> 00:45:16,923
[Sutherland]
Throughout 1961,
976
00:45:17,215 --> 00:45:19,676
Kennedy rejected a total
of nine attempts
977
00:45:19,759 --> 00:45:21,386
by his military advisers
978
00:45:21,469 --> 00:45:24,097
to send American ground troops into Vietnam,
979
00:45:24,264 --> 00:45:26,224
and both
General Douglas MacArthur
980
00:45:26,349 --> 00:45:28,560
and French President
Charles de Gaulle
981
00:45:28,643 --> 00:45:31,771
strongly agreed with him
about not doing so.
982
00:45:32,105 --> 00:45:34,107
-The issue
of what to do in Cuba,
983
00:45:34,399 --> 00:45:36,401
and the issue of what to do
in Vietnam,
984
00:45:36,776 --> 00:45:38,528
were inextricably intertwined
985
00:45:38,653 --> 00:45:41,030
because you can't do
all these things at once.
986
00:45:41,114 --> 00:45:42,282
We don't have enough soldiers.
987
00:45:42,365 --> 00:45:43,867
We don't have
enough forces to do them.
988
00:45:44,617 --> 00:45:48,121
And it's not just
Cuba and Vietnam.
989
00:45:48,204 --> 00:45:51,332
It's Cuba and Berlin
and Laos and Vietnam.
990
00:45:51,791 --> 00:45:56,212
So Kennedy was most concerned
actually about Berlin,
991
00:45:56,713 --> 00:45:59,966
and was unwilling
to put troops in Cuba
992
00:46:00,258 --> 00:46:01,968
because he would not
be able to react
993
00:46:02,135 --> 00:46:04,512
if Khrushchev
did something on Berlin.
994
00:46:05,013 --> 00:46:06,473
And Kennedy understood that;
995
00:46:06,806 --> 00:46:09,142
the Chairman of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff understood that.
996
00:46:09,434 --> 00:46:13,313
Now, with that as the context,
when it comes to Vietnam,
997
00:46:13,605 --> 00:46:15,523
Kennedy tells Lyman Lemnitzer,
998
00:46:15,607 --> 00:46:18,234
"Look, if we're not
going to go into Cuba,
999
00:46:18,485 --> 00:46:21,070
what in the hell are we
going to go into Vietnam for?"
1000
00:46:22,155 --> 00:46:24,324
[Sutherland] Near the end
of his first year in office,
1001
00:46:24,532 --> 00:46:25,909
Kennedy received a report
1002
00:46:25,992 --> 00:46:28,578
from Walt Rostow
and General Maxwell Taylor,
1003
00:46:28,661 --> 00:46:31,206
his foreign policy
and military advisers,
1004
00:46:31,372 --> 00:46:33,041
that called
for increased training
1005
00:46:33,124 --> 00:46:36,753
of South Vietnamese troops,
increased bombings of the north,
1006
00:46:37,170 --> 00:46:39,506
and the use of US combat troops.
1007
00:46:39,839 --> 00:46:43,301
-At meetings later in November,
I believe the 15th of November,
1008
00:46:43,384 --> 00:46:45,011
the National Security Council meeting
1009
00:46:45,136 --> 00:46:46,596
where this was thrashed out,
1010
00:46:46,679 --> 00:46:49,682
Robert Kennedy
was very explicit in saying,
1011
00:46:49,766 --> 00:46:51,643
"No, we're not sending
combat troops."
1012
00:46:51,893 --> 00:46:54,187
And it was clear
from that point forward
1013
00:46:54,270 --> 00:46:55,730
that this was the red line
1014
00:46:55,813 --> 00:46:57,398
that John F. Kennedy
would not cross.
1015
00:46:58,191 --> 00:46:59,484
[Sutherland]
A third influence
1016
00:46:59,567 --> 00:47:02,195
on Kennedy's reluctance
to commit American ground troops
1017
00:47:02,904 --> 00:47:06,407
was his ambassador to India,
John Kenneth Galbraith.
1018
00:47:06,741 --> 00:47:09,702
[James Galbraith] My father
went to see Walt Rostow.
1019
00:47:09,786 --> 00:47:11,287
He went in to talk to him.
1020
00:47:11,621 --> 00:47:15,250
Rostow gestured on his desk
to the pile of papers.
1021
00:47:15,333 --> 00:47:19,712
The report, the Rostow-Taylor report,
was plainly visible.
1022
00:47:19,921 --> 00:47:21,714
My father asked to see it.
1023
00:47:21,798 --> 00:47:26,135
Walt said, in effect,
that his security classification
1024
00:47:26,219 --> 00:47:27,637
wasn't sufficiently high.
1025
00:47:27,845 --> 00:47:29,347
Uh, my father did not think
1026
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:31,558
that Walt Rostow's
security classification
1027
00:47:31,641 --> 00:47:32,892
was higher than his.
1028
00:47:33,309 --> 00:47:35,812
And at a given moment,
the phone rang.
1029
00:47:35,895 --> 00:47:38,439
Walt turned to--
to answer the phone, and--
1030
00:47:38,523 --> 00:47:39,983
and Dad picked up the report,
1031
00:47:40,066 --> 00:47:42,068
and walked out of the office
and read it.
1032
00:47:42,151 --> 00:47:43,861
So, from that point forward,
1033
00:47:43,945 --> 00:47:46,990
he had an inside track
on what was being,
1034
00:47:47,073 --> 00:47:50,326
at that time, very closely
held recommendation
1035
00:47:50,410 --> 00:47:54,247
for a very strong combat
intervention in Vietnam.
1036
00:47:54,706 --> 00:47:57,041
And of course, he--
he proceeded to counter it,
1037
00:47:57,125 --> 00:48:00,295
as best he could,
with direct advice to the president.
1038
00:48:00,503 --> 00:48:02,505
-It isn't
until later in that month
1039
00:48:03,089 --> 00:48:06,551
where the Vietnam decision is
finally arrived that,
1040
00:48:06,759 --> 00:48:09,721
which is in NSAM 111
where Kennedy says
1041
00:48:09,804 --> 00:48:12,682
no combat troops,
but we'll increase the advisers.
1042
00:48:13,349 --> 00:48:16,185
And that was
his signal decision
1043
00:48:16,269 --> 00:48:17,353
in the Kennedy presidency
1044
00:48:17,437 --> 00:48:19,439
without respect
to the withdrawal,
1045
00:48:19,522 --> 00:48:22,191
but never to cross that line.
1046
00:48:25,778 --> 00:48:29,574
[Sutherland] In October 1962,
U-2 surveillance flights
1047
00:48:29,657 --> 00:48:32,076
detected Soviet
nuclear missiles in Cuba,
1048
00:48:32,702 --> 00:48:34,954
90 miles off the US coast.
1049
00:48:35,455 --> 00:48:38,333
To this day, scholars debate
Khrushchev's motivation.
1050
00:48:38,750 --> 00:48:41,628
Was it because
he feared a US invasion of Cuba?
1051
00:48:41,836 --> 00:48:44,505
Was it because of
American missiles in Turkey?
1052
00:48:45,298 --> 00:48:49,427
Was it, as Kennedy believed,
a negotiating tool over Berlin?
1053
00:48:50,553 --> 00:48:53,097
Despite pressure
from his military advisors,
1054
00:48:53,598 --> 00:48:56,643
Kennedy chose
the least-provocative alternative.
1055
00:48:56,893 --> 00:48:58,519
[John F. Kennedy] I have
directed that the following
1056
00:48:58,603 --> 00:49:01,064
initial steps
be taken immediately.
1057
00:49:01,272 --> 00:49:04,609
First, to halt
this offensive buildup,
1058
00:49:05,068 --> 00:49:08,529
a strict quarantine
on all offensive military equipment
1059
00:49:08,780 --> 00:49:11,240
under shipment to Cuba
is being initiated.
1060
00:49:11,866 --> 00:49:13,868
[Sutherland]
Kennedy's military advisers,
1061
00:49:13,951 --> 00:49:16,621
led by Air Force General
Curtis LeMay,
1062
00:49:16,704 --> 00:49:19,832
considered his refusal
to attack as pure folly,
1063
00:49:20,124 --> 00:49:21,834
the equivalent of surrender--
1064
00:49:26,297 --> 00:49:27,757
[Sutherland]
--a reference to Prime Minister
1065
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,550
Neville Chamberlain
of Great Britain,
1066
00:49:29,801 --> 00:49:32,553
and the appeasement
of the Nazis in 1938
1067
00:49:32,762 --> 00:49:35,306
which eventually led
to World War II.
1068
00:49:36,432 --> 00:49:38,726
As the crisis progressed
into its second week,
1069
00:49:39,102 --> 00:49:40,812
a U-2 plane was shot down,
1070
00:49:41,396 --> 00:49:44,899
and Kennedy's civilian advisers
began to side with LeMay,
1071
00:49:45,274 --> 00:49:47,819
who wanted Kennedy
to bomb the missile silos
1072
00:49:47,902 --> 00:49:49,362
and invade the island.
1073
00:49:50,071 --> 00:49:51,823
They did not know
that the Cubans
1074
00:49:51,906 --> 00:49:54,992
had short-range tactical
nuclear missiles in place.
1075
00:50:03,876 --> 00:50:04,961
[Sutherland]
Kennedy had his brother
1076
00:50:05,044 --> 00:50:07,839
meet with Soviet ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin.
1077
00:50:08,506 --> 00:50:11,217
According to the Soviets,
Robert Kennedy warned
1078
00:50:11,300 --> 00:50:12,593
that his brother was uncertain
1079
00:50:12,677 --> 00:50:14,679
he could control
the military much longer,
1080
00:50:14,929 --> 00:50:16,389
and that a deal could be struck
1081
00:50:16,472 --> 00:50:18,683
along the lines
Khrushchev had suggested--
1082
00:50:18,891 --> 00:50:20,768
a no-invasion pledge
1083
00:50:20,852 --> 00:50:23,604
and a withdrawal
of American missiles from Turkey.
1084
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:27,191
Most Americans felt elated
over the end of the crisis,
1085
00:50:27,692 --> 00:50:30,361
but the Joint Chiefs of Staff and LeMay felt
1086
00:50:30,445 --> 00:50:32,530
that they had been defeated
by the Soviets
1087
00:50:32,655 --> 00:50:35,742
and denied the opportunity
to topple Castro.
1088
00:50:36,451 --> 00:50:38,077
Kennedy looked at it
differently.
1089
00:50:38,494 --> 00:50:41,789
He said, "If we followed
the Pentagon's advice,
1090
00:50:42,248 --> 00:50:45,460
nobody would be around to tell
the generals they were wrong."
1091
00:50:46,711 --> 00:50:49,505
-The main, I think, goal
of the Kennedy administration
1092
00:50:49,672 --> 00:50:53,426
is how to work around
the State Department,
1093
00:50:53,801 --> 00:50:57,513
working around the CIA,
working around the Pentagon,
1094
00:50:57,764 --> 00:51:01,476
how can the Kennedy White House pursue
its own policy of peace
1095
00:51:01,559 --> 00:51:04,353
with the rest of the world?
With Castro in Cuba,
1096
00:51:04,604 --> 00:51:07,106
with Khrushchev in Moscow,
and so on,
1097
00:51:07,899 --> 00:51:11,778
and avoid the horrendous
mistakes of the past
1098
00:51:12,153 --> 00:51:14,280
that almost got us
into nuclear war.
1099
00:51:15,323 --> 00:51:17,158
[Sutherland]
In the midst of these debates,
1100
00:51:17,241 --> 00:51:20,870
Kennedy sent Galbraith
to Saigon to write a report
1101
00:51:21,329 --> 00:51:23,206
that would differ
in its recommendations
1102
00:51:23,289 --> 00:51:26,334
from what Taylor and Rostow
had given to him.
1103
00:51:26,918 --> 00:51:28,127
-Kennedy knew what he wanted,
1104
00:51:28,211 --> 00:51:30,338
and he knew what my father
would deliver, which he did,
1105
00:51:30,421 --> 00:51:32,882
which is a very detailed
and skeptical report
1106
00:51:33,090 --> 00:51:35,802
about the efficiency
of the South Vietnamese government,
1107
00:51:35,885 --> 00:51:38,930
about the capacity
of any military force
1108
00:51:39,013 --> 00:51:41,557
to prevail
in the security situation
1109
00:51:41,641 --> 00:51:44,060
that was existing
in South Vietnam at that time.
1110
00:51:45,311 --> 00:51:47,897
[Sutherland] Kennedy told
Galbraith to deliver his report
1111
00:51:47,980 --> 00:51:50,107
to Defense Secretary McNamara.
1112
00:51:50,191 --> 00:51:52,401
And he, in turn,
gave instructions
1113
00:51:52,485 --> 00:51:55,238
to begin the withdrawal
to General Harkins,
1114
00:51:55,696 --> 00:51:58,407
the commanding general
of all forces in Vietnam.
1115
00:51:59,158 --> 00:52:02,245
The Pentagon dragged its feet
on formulating plans,
1116
00:52:02,453 --> 00:52:06,249
and McNamara called
for a meeting in May of 1963.
1117
00:52:07,250 --> 00:52:10,169
One of the most important finds
of the Review Board
1118
00:52:10,378 --> 00:52:12,004
are the notes from this meeting.
1119
00:52:12,755 --> 00:52:14,674
[Douglas Horne] McNamara says,
"It's not fast enough.
1120
00:52:14,757 --> 00:52:16,175
I want you to accelerate it."
1121
00:52:16,259 --> 00:52:19,512
He says, "I want to pull out
a thousand men in December,
1122
00:52:19,595 --> 00:52:20,596
by the end of the year.
1123
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,558
And I want you to pull out
complete units,
1124
00:52:23,808 --> 00:52:26,644
not just individuals,
because he didn't want it to be
1125
00:52:26,811 --> 00:52:28,646
an accounting exercise
of pulling out,
1126
00:52:28,980 --> 00:52:32,066
delaying other individuals coming in
and saying, we pulled out a thousand men.
1127
00:52:32,149 --> 00:52:33,651
He wanted units
to come out, full units.
1128
00:52:34,235 --> 00:52:36,863
[Sutherland] After the withdrawal plan
was approved,
1129
00:52:37,029 --> 00:52:39,699
Kennedy sent Secretary
of Defense McNamara
1130
00:52:39,782 --> 00:52:43,369
and General Taylor to Saigon
in September of '63.
1131
00:52:43,870 --> 00:52:47,915
He planned on using their report
as the basis to formally order
1132
00:52:47,999 --> 00:52:49,542
the withdrawal to begin.
1133
00:52:50,042 --> 00:52:51,669
Kennedy controlled the report
1134
00:52:51,961 --> 00:52:53,504
since it was actually
being written
1135
00:52:53,588 --> 00:52:55,715
under the supervision
of Bobby Kennedy.
1136
00:52:56,132 --> 00:52:57,800
But still, men like
1137
00:52:57,884 --> 00:53:01,220
Undersecretary of State
William Sullivan and Taylor
1138
00:53:01,304 --> 00:53:04,348
tried to remove the recommendation
for withdrawal.
1139
00:53:04,891 --> 00:53:07,685
Kennedy insisted
that it stay in.
1140
00:53:08,686 --> 00:53:13,065
-Then Kennedy takes that, secretly,
three days later,
1141
00:53:13,357 --> 00:53:16,319
actually issues the order
himself at the secret level.
1142
00:53:16,527 --> 00:53:18,613
It doesn't become an NSAM, yet. It should.
1143
00:53:18,696 --> 00:53:20,781
But once it leaks out
into the newspapers,
1144
00:53:20,865 --> 00:53:22,867
his opponents find out
what he's done,
1145
00:53:23,326 --> 00:53:24,577
then it's in the newspapers.
1146
00:53:24,660 --> 00:53:26,245
And McGeorge Bundy
says to Kennedy,
1147
00:53:26,329 --> 00:53:28,205
"Hey, look, you know, if they're talking
about it in the newspapers,
1148
00:53:28,289 --> 00:53:29,290
we might as well
put it on paper."
1149
00:53:29,582 --> 00:53:31,959
And they put it,
and it was NSAM 263.
1150
00:53:32,043 --> 00:53:34,587
And that's how it was actually
written and why.
1151
00:53:35,046 --> 00:53:37,006
Well, here's
one of the things McNamara said
1152
00:53:37,089 --> 00:53:38,799
in the secret debrief.
1153
00:53:38,883 --> 00:53:42,094
He said, "We had agreed,
the president and I,
1154
00:53:42,428 --> 00:53:44,096
that we had trained them,
1155
00:53:44,180 --> 00:53:45,890
we had given them
everything we could.
1156
00:53:45,973 --> 00:53:48,059
And if they couldn't win,
too bad.
1157
00:53:48,601 --> 00:53:51,771
We had to get out even if
they were going to be defeated."
1158
00:53:52,688 --> 00:53:55,066
So he and Kennedy,
McNamara and Kennedy,
1159
00:53:55,149 --> 00:53:58,361
had decided that they were willing
to pull out of Vietnam
1160
00:53:58,444 --> 00:54:01,405
in a losing scenario.
That's very important.
1161
00:54:07,453 --> 00:54:09,789
-Can you tell us
about the Air Force One tapes,
1162
00:54:10,247 --> 00:54:11,791
and General Curtis LeMay?
1163
00:54:12,208 --> 00:54:13,918
-On the new version
of the Air Force One tapes,
1164
00:54:14,001 --> 00:54:15,127
the Clifton tapes,
1165
00:54:15,211 --> 00:54:17,004
it's revealed
that Colonel Dorman,
1166
00:54:17,088 --> 00:54:19,799
General LeMay's aide,
was desperately trying to
1167
00:54:20,007 --> 00:54:21,801
contact LeMay on the radio.
1168
00:54:22,259 --> 00:54:23,761
[man] Colonel Dorman,
General LeMay's aide?
1169
00:54:23,844 --> 00:54:24,887
[man 2] Right.
1170
00:54:35,731 --> 00:54:38,359
-A logbook
was recovered by the ARRB
1171
00:54:38,526 --> 00:54:40,903
from the Air Force
Command Post at Andrews.
1172
00:54:40,987 --> 00:54:41,904
And it was given to us
1173
00:54:42,029 --> 00:54:43,948
by a civil servant
named Chuck Holmes.
1174
00:54:44,156 --> 00:54:46,909
And this logbook records
in-flight conversations
1175
00:54:46,993 --> 00:54:49,453
between a command post
at Andrews and Air Force One
1176
00:54:49,537 --> 00:54:51,747
as it's flying from Texas
back to Washington.
1177
00:54:51,831 --> 00:54:53,916
[man] Air Force One, this is
the Air Force Command Post
1178
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,378
in five, four requesting
the names of these passengers
1179
00:54:57,461 --> 00:54:58,462
on board, please.
1180
00:54:58,629 --> 00:55:01,173
-So this log book shows
that General LeMay
1181
00:55:01,382 --> 00:55:04,260
at the time of the assassination
was in Canada.
1182
00:55:04,343 --> 00:55:05,344
This is really interesting
1183
00:55:05,428 --> 00:55:08,264
because his official biographer says
he was hunting in Michigan.
1184
00:55:08,597 --> 00:55:10,057
But we know that's not true.
1185
00:55:10,975 --> 00:55:12,893
He was in Toronto,
for reasons unknown,
1186
00:55:13,102 --> 00:55:14,937
without his aide,
Colonel Dorman,
1187
00:55:15,021 --> 00:55:16,647
who went with him everywhere.
1188
00:55:16,731 --> 00:55:19,150
This log book reveals
that he was ordered
1189
00:55:19,233 --> 00:55:22,319
by Secretary Zuckert to land
at Andrews Air Force Base.
1190
00:55:22,445 --> 00:55:24,822
Because all the federal
officials were going to meet
1191
00:55:24,905 --> 00:55:27,283
the president's body
at Andrews Air Force Base.
1192
00:55:27,366 --> 00:55:29,118
A transmission was made
from LeMay's plane
1193
00:55:29,201 --> 00:55:30,786
back to this command post.
1194
00:55:30,870 --> 00:55:34,749
And it says: "General LeMay
will not go to Andrews.
1195
00:55:34,832 --> 00:55:37,668
General LeMay will go to
DCA, National Airport."
1196
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,964
According to this log,
his plane lands at 5:15 p.m.,
1197
00:55:42,048 --> 00:55:43,924
well before the autopsy started.
1198
00:55:47,970 --> 00:55:49,847
[Goldberg]
Very few people in the Pentagon
1199
00:55:49,930 --> 00:55:53,684
had a worse relationship
with Kennedy than Curtis LeMay.
1200
00:55:53,976 --> 00:55:55,394
During the missile crisis,
1201
00:55:55,478 --> 00:55:58,481
he opposed Kennedy's
solution of a blockade.
1202
00:55:58,814 --> 00:56:01,275
When Kennedy left the room
after this conference,
1203
00:56:01,442 --> 00:56:03,861
LeMay openly ridiculed him.
1204
00:56:03,944 --> 00:56:06,781
LeMay was strongly
against the test ban treaty
1205
00:56:06,906 --> 00:56:09,992
Kennedy was working on
and signed in 1963.
1206
00:56:10,284 --> 00:56:13,037
He wanted to escalate
the Vietnam War,
1207
00:56:13,204 --> 00:56:17,416
with both naval and air power,
by carrying the war north.
1208
00:56:17,875 --> 00:56:20,294
He advocated
bombing North Vietnam
1209
00:56:20,377 --> 00:56:22,588
back to the Stone Age,
if need be,
1210
00:56:23,005 --> 00:56:25,341
and was willing to use
atomic weapons
1211
00:56:25,424 --> 00:56:27,301
if the Chinese intervened.
1212
00:56:29,678 --> 00:56:31,931
[Douglas Horne] There were a lot of people
at the Bethesda morgue.
1213
00:56:32,014 --> 00:56:33,933
The latest count
by all the researchers
1214
00:56:34,016 --> 00:56:36,060
that I know of is
about 33 people.
1215
00:56:36,268 --> 00:56:38,270
There was a gallery
of bleachers.
1216
00:56:38,479 --> 00:56:41,065
Apparently all three rows
were filled with people.
1217
00:56:41,398 --> 00:56:44,401
Both Dr. Humes
has complained after the fact
1218
00:56:44,819 --> 00:56:48,614
and Tom Robinson,
the mortician from Gawler's Funeral Home.
1219
00:56:48,697 --> 00:56:51,367
They both equated it
to a three-ring circus.
1220
00:56:51,575 --> 00:56:53,452
-But these three
autopsy pathologists
1221
00:56:53,536 --> 00:56:56,288
who are not really credentialed
to do that kind of an autopsy,
1222
00:56:56,372 --> 00:56:59,291
were given a body,
told here's the body,
1223
00:56:59,375 --> 00:57:00,960
he was shot from behind,
he fell forward,
1224
00:57:01,043 --> 00:57:02,586
which they wrote
in their autopsy report.
1225
00:57:02,670 --> 00:57:04,296
Figure out how the wounds fit
1226
00:57:04,380 --> 00:57:05,923
the known circumstances
of the shooting.
1227
00:57:06,298 --> 00:57:08,342
But what this really speaks to is the fact
1228
00:57:08,425 --> 00:57:11,595
that the autopsy was not
in the control of the surgeons
1229
00:57:11,679 --> 00:57:12,847
that were charged at doing it.
1230
00:57:12,930 --> 00:57:14,807
It was in the control
of people who were there,
1231
00:57:14,890 --> 00:57:17,476
who were telling them what they could do
and what they couldn't do.
1232
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:19,145
[Douglas Horne] Paul O'Connor
was a Navy corpsman,
1233
00:57:19,228 --> 00:57:20,271
helping the pathologists.
1234
00:57:20,437 --> 00:57:25,734
He told me in 1999.
He told others this in 1992.
1235
00:57:25,818 --> 00:57:26,986
He's told several people
1236
00:57:27,194 --> 00:57:29,530
that Dr. Humes,
during the autopsy,
1237
00:57:29,613 --> 00:57:32,116
complained that somebody
was smoking a cigar,
1238
00:57:32,366 --> 00:57:33,868
tell him to put
the damn thing out.
1239
00:57:33,951 --> 00:57:36,579
So O'Connor,
he went over to the gallery,
1240
00:57:36,745 --> 00:57:38,664
the three rows of bleachers,
1241
00:57:39,206 --> 00:57:42,459
and there was General LeMay
sitting in his uniform
1242
00:57:42,751 --> 00:57:44,587
with a big fat cigar
in his hand,
1243
00:57:44,670 --> 00:57:47,423
and LeMay looked at him after
he asked him to put it out,
1244
00:57:47,631 --> 00:57:49,550
and promptly blew smoke
in his face.
1245
00:57:51,677 --> 00:57:53,512
Did LeMay go to the autopsy
1246
00:57:53,888 --> 00:57:57,057
to gloat over the death
of his nemesis?
1247
00:57:57,391 --> 00:58:00,394
[dramatic music]
98223
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