All language subtitles for CrimeFeed S01 E11_track3_[eng]

[narrator] This week on
Crimefeed...

A mother accused
of the unthinkable.

Murdering her three
little kids.

Will she face consequences or
is postpartum the real killer?

And a man found dead
in an apartment allegedly
used for sex.

Police say his
husband's version of events
just don't add up.

And the Tex McIver case.

Is this lawyer a victim
of circumstance

or the cunning killer
of his wife?

All this week on Crimefeedwith Nancy Grace,

private investigator,
Derrick Levasseur

and investigative journalist,
Mara S. Campo.

Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace,
this is Crimefeed. Thank you
for being with us.

Those stories in a moment,
but first,

breaking out of Idaho and
the slayings of four beautiful
university students

in their own beds.

The off-campus rental
where suspect Bryan Kohberger

allegedly murders
four students last year

set to be demolished
in just weeks.

Kohberger's defense team
now granted access
to the house

before the structure
is destroyed.

November 13th, 2022,
police say Kohberger stabs

Kaylee Goncalves,
Maddie Mogen, Xana Kernodle

and Ethan Chapin dead
in the six-bedroom home.

Two other roommates,
Dylan Mortensen and
Bethany Funke

in the home
of time of the murders
but miraculously survive.

And now, with the university
set to demolish the house

there's plenty of debate,
plenty of emotion on
both sides.

Some of the devastated
family members of victims

were hoping to wait till
after Kohberger's trial

but the university president
says it's time to remove it

and allow the community
to heal.

You know, I understand
the whole desire for healing,
uh, but,

my concern
is for the ultimate trial.

That's what I feel
has to be safeguarded now.

And without the home there

there's no way to go back
there for possible evidence.

Is there any? Probably not.
They probably got it all.

-But what if the jury wants
to see the scene?
-That's it right there.

And I... listen,
we can get into it. We don't
have enough time here.

But the college wanting
to demolish the house,

there's other things
at play there.

It's an eyesore for them,
I get that. But I agree
with you 100%.

They can do all the
3D renderings they want

but having the jury being able
to go back there at night

and get the perspective from
the surviving witness,

there's nothing...
there's no substitute
for that.

I think it's a mistake
to demolish the house
before the trial.

Well, and I think the question
is really, ultimately,
one of timing, right?

We all understand why
the community and especially,
the families of the victims

want that house gone,
but why does it have
to be done now?

It could be done later,
it could be done after trial

when they're certain
that they're not going
to need to revisit it.

So, I think it's really
a question of timing.

[Nancy] But in the big scheme
it's actually very rare

that the jury leaves
the confines of the courthouseand goes to the scene.

We just hear about it
because it happens more
in high profile cases.

So, there's little likelihood
that's gonna happen

but still, I would not risk
a potential true verdict.

Now, to a parent's
worst nightmare come true.

Imagine picking up dinner
for your family
and coming home

to find your children dead
at the hands
of your own spouse.

The disturbing case
of Lindsay Clancy,

the Massachusetts mother
accused of strangling her
own children to death.

She's pleading not guilty.

Is it really possible
her postpartum depression

made her do
the unthinkable? Mara?

This is truly
a heartbreaking story, Nancy.

The former nurse
and mother of three,
Lindsay Clancy

has been charged
with strangling her children

before attempting
to take her own life.

But if proven true,
what could've caused her
to do it?

Let's take a look.

[narrator] It was only after
police initially responded

to a woman jumping out
of her bedroom window

in Duxbury, Massachusetts
on January 24th, 2023,

that they learned the grim
extent of what happened.

In the basement
two of her children,

5-year-old Cora and
3-year-old Dawson
laid dead by strangulation.

Her 7-month-old son, Callan,
died at the hospital
three days later.

Lindsay Clancy had been
described by friends
and family

as a loving, devoted mother.

She even worked as a labor
and delivery nurse.

For the mother,
you can start forming
a routine with your baby.

You learn to sleep in chunks
as your baby naps.

You have less anxiety
about your baby being
out of your sight.

[narrator] But Clancy
had been suffering from
severe postpartum depression.

She mentioned thoughts
of harming herself
and the children

to her husband
in December, 2022,

before checking herself
into a mental health hospital
on New Year's Day.

She was discharged
a week later

and allegedly killed
her children later that month.

She's been charged
with three counts each
of murder and strangulation.

Her defense arguing
she suffered from
postpartum psychosis

and over-medication,

while the prosecution arguing
she is responsible
for her actions.

The defendant is a danger
to herself and others.
She planned these murders.

Gave herself the time and
privacy needed to commit
the murders,

and then she strangled
each child

in the place where they
should've felt the safest.

At home, with their mom.

Lindsay Clancy is paralyzed
from the waist down after her
jump from the bedroom window.

Her latest court hearing
in November was held in
a conference room

inside Duxbury Hospital

that's where she's been
since May. Nancy?

Well, I've gotta tell you
I understand the theory
of postpartum depression,

uh, but, in order for her
to walk on these charges

it must rise to the level
of insanity.

I really wanna focus on
the children 'cause they're
the victims here.

And when you look at
premeditation and totality

there's a lot of
circumstantial evidence here
that suggests

Lindsay was aware of what was
going on with her thoughts
or feelings

and maybe an indication that
she was planning this out
before it happened.

As we're gonna see here,
we might have some clips
of it,

she searched ways to kill
on her phone, on her app
she was looking that up.

She searched
how to treat a sociopath,
which to me suggests

that she may have an
understanding of the thoughts
she was feeling,

a consciousness, if you will.

And then you look at
the day in question,
like you said the maps.

And also, there's a moment
where Patrick calls her
while he's out

and he calls her about
a specific medication,

and during that call
she doesn't pick up

but she calls back
and according to Patrick,
she sounds busy.

To me, that sounds like
someone who's aware
of what they're doing.

She had enough consciousness
to call him back and
she sounded fine.

I don't know.
There's a lot there, Mara.

We talked about it
a little bit.

-You have a different opinion.
-[Mara] Yeah,
there's no question

that there's a lot of evidence
that suggest that she may
have planned this

and she had an awareness
of what was right and
what was wrong.

So, I think, Nancy,
you're right.

When it comes to the
legal definition of insanity

I don't think
that this meets it.

But we cannot ignore the fact
that this woman was very,
very sick

and she was desperately
trying to get help.

How do we know that?

She told her husband
that she was having
these terrible thoughts

about harming herself
and the children.

Not an easy thing to admit.

She had visited
two psychiatrists.

She had been prescribed
13 medications and she
was taking her medicine.

She checked into
inpatient treatment

for her mental health issues
for five days.

So, this is someone
who desperately needed help.

So, the question here is
does she belong in prison

or does she belong
in a hospital?

And she... she may belong
in prison according to the law

but does the law need to make
more allowances

for not just
postpartum depression

but in this case,
it's alleged that she had
postpartum psychosis,

which is very different,
much more rare and
much more severe.

[Nancy] You know,
I got another issue, guys.

Have you seen,
I had to make a flowchart

for all the meds the various
doctors had her on.

Ambien, Klonopin,
Valium, Prozac,

Lamictal, Ativan, Remeron
and Seroquel and trazodone.

You know, anyone of those
would knock me totally out.

She's taking all of these.

Did that somehow contribute
to what happened?

But, I... Look,
I have to look at it
by the letter of the law.

And the law is,
whether we like it or not,
the old McNaughton rule

which is, did you know
right from wrong at the time
of the incident?

If she can plan it and
she can spell

Mediterranean Power Bowl
and scallop and pork belly
and, uh, risotto,

and send her husband
across town and then
murder the children,

it reminds me of Andrea Yates,

who she waited till
Rusty Yates left the house

then she locked all the doors
and took her children
one by one and murdered them.

Yes, but Andrea Yates
was found not guilty by reason
of insanity in a retrial.

-The first conviction was
a retrial...
-That's right.

-...and so, she is now
in a hospital today.
-Yeah.

And so, I think that's
ultimately the question.

You know, you look at
what her husband wrote

just days after she's accused
of strangling their
three children

who he adored,
he adored his family,

and he begs the public
for forgiveness.

He says, "The real Lindsay was
generously loving and caring
towards everyone.

The very fibers of her soul
are loving."

He's saying this is not
the real Lindsay

and there are other countries
that make allowances

for women who kill
their biological children

-within the first year
of birth.
-[Nancy] And she'd

be loving and wonderful
behind bars.

Real quick,
we talked about the how,
we talked about the who.

You asked me off-camera
about the why. The motive.

I wanna play a quick clip here
from Jennifer Sprague,

Distric... uh,
Assistant District Attorney.

We may have the motive
in this journal entry
from Lindsay Clancy.

The defendant wrote a note
on her phone on October 25th,
2022, stating,

"I think I sort of resent
my other children

because they prevent me
from treating Cal like
my first baby."

She also wrote, "I want
to feel love and connection
with all of my kids."

This would indicate
that she did not feel
love or connection

with at least
some of her kids.

I have a big problem
with this thing used
as evidence,

-but we can talk about it on
the other side of the break.
-Okay.

A mother of three
kills her tots, ages 5, 3
and just 7 months.

This, after researching
ways to kill.

But tonight, many argue
she's not to blame because
of postpartum depression.

And a twist. A man accused
of killing his spouse

but cops find the victim
in an alleged apartment
turned sex den.

Unsealed documents in the case
against Lindsay Clancy

reveal the mother of three
had notebooks documenting
her meds.

Thoughts of suicide and that
she researched ways to kill.

5-year-old Cora,
3-year-old Dawson

7-month-old Callan
all strangled in the home.

Her lawyer says she suffered
from postpartum depression

and that
she was overmedicated.

With us now,
renowned psychiatrist,
Dr. Angela Arnold.

Dr. Angie, thank you
for being with us.

-Did you see
this list I made...
-Yes.

...of all the meds she was on?

And you and I both know,
since this is your expertise

that insanity requires you
not know right from wrong

at the time of the incident.

Nancy, there are couple
of things I wanna know.

Had she stopped breastfeeding?

Had she started
her menstrual cycle

after the last baby
was born, yet?

And she did this in January
which adds a bit of what
we call

-Seasonal Affective Disorder.
-[Nancy] I'm sorry, but,

how does a menstrual cycle,
uh, fit in with murdering
your three children?

-Is there nobody here
but him... Derrick...
-[Angela] I'll tell you.

-...and me worried
about the children?
-Sweetie, I'll tell you--

Oh, no. I'll tell you exactly
how it plays in.

Nancy, a long, long time ago

when a woman had her first
menstrual cycle after
the birth of her child,

that was the number one
child when a...

time when a woman
would be admitted to
a psychiatric hospital.

Because they literally
can go crazy

leading up to their
first menstrual cycle.

The other thing is,
she was smart enough

because she was a labor
and delivery nurse.

To know what these medicines
meant to her,

She was also smart enough
to know

that she wasn't feeling right.

And if you don't treat
postpartum depression, Nancy,

if it's not
treated appropriately

it gets worse and worse
and worse and worse

and then,
there's the possibility that
she could've become psychotic.

And psychosis waxes

-and wanes...
-[Nancy] Wait, wait,
when you say psychotic

-you mean that she was
seeing hallucinations or...
-...Out of touch with reality.

-Yes, hearing things...
-...What exactly
does that mean?

-Hearing things.
-That's not in the notebook,
is it?

I actually think
there was something
in her notebook about that.

Well, but a lot of people have
noted that she seemed
perfectly normal that day.

She, you know,
called the pharmacy

and she made calls and
she planned the dinner.

But you just mentioned
waxing and waning...

-Yes.
-...of consciousness
and clarity.

Can you explain that
a little bit more?

-Is it possible that both
things could be true?
-[Angela] Yes.

It is completely possible
and the other thing about
this is...

Nancy, she had gotten to
such a horrific point.

This is what happens to women.

First of all, when a woman
has a baby

that... especially,
women that are very
in tuned,

they're very vigilant
about the baby. Right?

That's why
women can hear a baby cry
at night when men can't, okay.

They're very vigilant.
Well, what happens is

that can roll over
into too much vigilance.

And that... it... it...
that's when they start
having intrusive thoughts.

That goes along with
the lack of sleep
that many women have

-and if you notice--
-[Nancy] Okay, you know what?

I'm gonna have to make
another chart.

Lack of sleep, period,

-breastfeeding...
It ain't working, Angie.
-[Angela] What do you mean?

-This is how--
-That's not rising
to insanity!

Lack of sleep,
having the first period?

Oh, Nancy, I'm telling you
it does rise to the level
of insanity.

[Derrick] Can I throw
a different angle at you guys?

'Cause I feel like
the defense is gonna go
with being overprescribed.

I know the insanity element
is a part of it

but he keeps bringing that up,
Herrington, I believe
his name is

and there is
two particular drugs...
He did a toxicology report.

Two particular drugs,
correct me if I'm wrong
on any of this,

an anti-depressant,
which is Remeron...

-Am I saying that right?
And then... and then...
-[Angela] Yes. Remeron.

-And then,
an anti-psychotic, Seroquel.
-[Angela] Seroquel.

Those two were at peak levels
when the...

at the time that they did
the toxicology reports

and the prosecution
is suggesting that she
took those medications

-after killing the children.
-Mmm-hmm.

[Derrick] Would that show
some consciousness of,
"Okay, listen,

there's an angle here
that I wanna play,

I might wanna take those drugs
after the fact."

[Angela] I believe
she took those drugs.

Seroquel will stop the
thoughts in your head, okay,

and I have a feeling
she probably doused herself
with that.

[Derrick] Question.
Why wouldn't she take them
before or... killing the kids,

-but after the thoughts?
-I don't know.

-I don't know.
-[Derrick] Okay,
'cause that's my...

we're gonna take
the anti-psychotic after
killing the three kids?

And the Remeron
makes you sleep.

-That's the only thing
Remeron does.
-One more question.

Does any combination
of these drugs

increase the likelihood
of homicidal violence

-in your
professional experience?
-No.

-Okay.
-[Nancy] Okay.

She's screwed.
Technical legal term.

Because if it doesn't increase
homicidal violence tendencies

or suicidal
or homicidal ideation...

-[Derrick] Unless they
go postpartum psychosis.
-...that's not gonna help her.

I know, Nancy,
but her psychosis
was not being treated.

But I think what's so hard
for people to understand,

we do hear cases where mothers
kill their children and they
were awfully abusive

and the children were
malnourished and the boyfriend
was beating them

and that's a particular kind
of monster.

In this case, this woman,
by all accounts

was incredibly loving
and devoted and
caring to her children.

So, the question is,
if everything you're saying
is true,

-why? Why would she want
to harm her children?
-[Angela] She was sick.

-Exactly.
-What happens, guys,

when you start to get
intrusive thoughts...
I see it all the time.

You get intrusive thoughts,
they get worse

because you're up all night
breastfeeding the baby, okay,

and your lack of sleep.

Guess what the obsessive
thoughts become?

Every time I see it...

"I'm not a good mother.
I don't need to be here.
I'm not a good mother."

And there's no telling
what her thoughts went to
after that.

[Nancy] You know what, though,
Dr. Angie?

You load that jury with moms
like me,

moms that have had
lack of sleep,

moms that breastfed,
moms that had
their first period,

moms that...
that go through all that

and they're gonna be thinking,

"I would never have killed
my children."

-Or-- Mmm-hmm.
-[Mara] I actually have a lot
of compassion for her

-because I under the... the...
the hormonal overload...
-Mmm-hmm.

...the intrusive thoughts,

-I had terrible
intrusive thoughts...
-The lack of sleep.

...when my son was a newborn.

This, actually,
would be very convincing.

[Nancy] I'm not saying
I don't feel for her.

The woman is paralyzed
from jumping out of a window.

I hate to even hear
what she's going through.

Oh, speaking of
being paralyzed,

she's paralyzed,
but did you know

in the hospital room...
she writes...

This is right after
the children are dead.

"Do I need a lawyer?"

-Right.
-She writes that
on a whiteboard

in her hospital room.

Okay, how's that...
how's that working
for you guys?

Well... well,
here's the thing, Nancy.

Maybe she...
maybe she is so confused
that she's thinking,

"Oh, my God, what have I done?
Do I need a lawyer now?"

I don't see it as,
"Oh, my God,
I killed my kids."

Because I believe this woman
loved her children

and I believe she was failed
by the system.

Can you believe that
the first doctor she went to

did not diagnose her
with postpartum depression?

Nancy, somebody walks
into your office,

they're postpartum,
if they're depressed,

they don't have generalized
anxiety disorder,

they have
postpartum depression. Okay?

-All day long. I know.
-[Nancy] Know what? They need
you as an expert witness.

-And you need some experts.
-'Cause they are gonna
have to convince a jury

that this drove her to commit
triple homicide.

And I think
we all feel for her

-but more for the children.
-[Angela] Nancy, do you know--

Nancy, do you know
that I've been flooded
with emails from patients

around the country
telling me that they wanna
tell me their story.

That they want to let me know
what their postpartum episode
was like.

Dr. Angela Arnold,
thank you so much.

Coming up,
an Atlanta blue blood

and partner at one of the
most prestigious law firms
in the country

and living the good life
on his wife's money,

Tex McIver convicted
of shooting his wife dead

and making it look
like an accident

has an extremely rare
reversal of fortune.

He gets a new trial.

That's right. A second swing
at the ball.

Will this wily lawyer
that knows all the ropes
wrangle his way out of jail?

And next,
allegations of murder
an alleged sex den

and a bizarre Facebook post
by the accused killer.

Welcome back to Crimefeed.

A grieving widower
raises thousands

with a heart-wrenching
GoFundMe campaign

after his husband's quote,
"unexpected passing."

And then, plot twist.

Fifty-five-year-old
Florida man Herbert Swilley

now the prime suspect
in the murder of his
long-time love.

Timothy Smith's dead body
found inside an apartment

the couple rented
in Ocala, Florida.

Swilley just pleads
not guilty.

Mara, Derrick, what happened?

Well, according to
the arrest warrant,

police found 59-year-old Tim
on the floor of a bedroom,

wearing only
a shirt and shoes.

His body bearing the marks
of a brutal attack.

Dark ligature marks
on his neck,

and traumatic injuries to his
face and his private parts.

His cause of death
was strangulation
and a broken neck.

And Tim could not
have fought back
even if he wanted to

because a toxicology
report revealed

he had been badly drugged.

In his system,

thirty times the standard
therapeutic dose

of diphenhydramine,
which is the main ingredient

in certain allergy meds
and sleep aids.

Let's take a listen to a clip
of Tim's sister, Sandy,

speaking to a reporter
about his gruesome death.

[shakily] I mean, my brother's
not a small person.

Or wasn't. He was tall.

And he was strong,
and I just...

I can't imagine
what he went through,

and it breaks my heart
to think of it.

Yeah. Now, after Tim
didn't show up for work,

Herb told police
he went looking for him

and found his car outside
a second apartment they shared

about five minutes away
from where they lived.

Now, allegedly,
they had an open marriage

and they used this place
for hookups.

The homicide investigation
ultimately led police
to believe

that Herbert killed Tim
in their home,

moved him
to the second apartment,

and then staged
a crime scene there.

He allegedly
did try to clean it up.

Deleted Ring camera footage,
disposed of a rug at
a landfill.

But ultimately,
cameras and cell phone data
caught him in a bunch of lies.

And I have to say the overall
totality of the evidence
is pretty incriminating.

Well, one of the things
that you mentioned,

this apartment that they had.

-Yeah.
-The second apartment
that they had.

Reportedly, for hookups
with other people

-because they had
an open marriage...
-Right.

...and they needed
the privacy to do that.

So Tim would have then,
presumably, been at
that apartment

to meet up with someone
for a hookup.

You're taking 30 times
the dose of an allergy med,

essentially, that's gonna
knock you out,

and then you're gonna
go to a hookup?

That by itself
doesn't make any sense.

Can we talk about
what this is really about?

As exciting as the idea
of a sex den

and an open marriage,
and blah, blah, blah...

It's about the money!

It's about $330,000
of life insurance policy,

and it's about the age-old
story of domestic abuse.

This victim had been beaten

by his husband
on many occasions.

Friends had seen him
with a black eye,

with bruises
all over his body.

And so when
the defendant sees,

"Uh-oh,
there goes my meal ticket,

and my $330,000
of life insurance policy,

I better act right now."

And he did.
It's all about the money.

And how dare he
get on Facebook

and post about
how he's gonna celebrate

their would've-been
eight-year anniversary?

How dare he go on Facebook

whining about how much
he misses his spouse

on their
eight-year anniversary?

And he did it!

Yeah. No. As far as that,
yeah, that's terrible.

But as far as connecting
the dots to show that
he's lying,

I love what
detectives did here.

Obviously, you have
video footage showing

Herbert's vehicle leaving
their main residence...

-Oh, yeah.
-...going to the apartment
that night.

But what's interesting
about it is,

as they're tracking
that vehicle,

Tim's cellphone is tracking
in the vehicle

after seeing the video
of Herbert leaving
the main house,

going to the apartment,
travelling with him.

So, it shows that the victim,
more than likely, was deceased
and in that vehicle.

But here's where
it gets interesting.

And I gotta try to explain it.
You know how you have
your cellphone,

-it connects to your vehicle
when you get in it, normally.
-[Nancy] Yeah.

Well, the cellphone stays
at the apartment complex.

Then you see
the shadowy figure

on a gas station video
going back to the main house.

Then you see Tim's vehicle,
shortly after,

leaving and driving
to the apartment.
But what's interesting is,

they believe that
when that vehicle showed up,

the cellphone from the victim,
Tim, that was inside
the house,

reconnected with his vehicle
because it was so close.

Showing that Tim,
or his cellphone,

was not inside the vehicle
when Tim would have,
allegedly,

been driving his car
to that location.

Which completely debunks
what Herbert was trying
to convey.

And there were other things
that also debunked his story,
you know.

He said he had been
sleeping that night.

-[Derrick] Right.
-And you see
Ring camera activity,

-and also
his own phone activity...
-[Nancy] And then he got up,

-went to the gym at 4:00 am.
-[Mara] Right, he...

-[sarcastically] Right.
-[Mara speaks indistinctly]
...when in fact evidence

suggest that
he was at the landfill,

-dumping what
appeared to be carpets.
-[Nancy] I was just gonna

ask you about that, Mara.

Please, how guilty are you
when first thing
in the morning

you're dumping the carpets
out of your home at
the landfill?

-Really?
-And friends of theirs
said that they noticed

in the days following that
the carpets were missing
from their home.

And so the theory that
investigators have
put together

is that Herbert murdered Tim
in their home.

And rolled him up
in these carpets,

put him in his own truck,

-which, I understand
had a flatbed, I believe.
-[Derrick] That's right.

[Mara] Drove that
and the cellphone
to the sex den,

as you call it, Nancy.
[chuckles]

-Left them there.
-[Nancy] That was
the cops' words.

-[Mara laughing]
-Not mine. I don't think
I've ever said "sex den"

before now. But please,
I'll take the credit,
go ahead.

Left the victim
and the cellphone there.

Drove back home,
then drove the victim's car

to the apartment so that
he could leave it there,

so that when he called police
for a welfare check,
it would all be there.

And that's the other thing
that really bothers me
about this.

You're calling
for a welfare check.

He says, "Oh,
I think he's pissed off
about something,

and I don't have the key
to my own apartment.

-Can you please
go check on him?"
-[Derrick] Mmm.

-That just doesn't add up.
-He wanted to separate
himself.

He might as well have
taken out an ad

on Park Avenue that said,
"I did it. Arrest me!"

I mean, a welfare check
because he can't get him
to pick up the phone

at their sex den?

Of course he wouldn't be
picking up the phone
at the sex...

-I just wanna see how many
times I can say "sex den."
-[laughs] Sex den.

And tonight,
will a blue-blood lawyer

get away with murder?

Tex McIver swears
his gun just went off.

Will a new jury believe him
in round two?

A high-powered lawyer
found guilty of his
wife's murder,

but now, his case reversed.

Was he living the high life
off his wife's money?

Immediately selling
her jewelry,

furs, designer clothes,
shoes, handbags.

Raising nearly $300,000

immediately after she dies
to keep the party going?

Funding his lavish lifestyle?

Including a luxury condo,

plus, a huge farm
outside the city.

Complete with a pool,
a guest ranch,

horse barn, and even a saloon.

Mara, what!

Nancy, in 2016, 73-year-old
Tex McIver shot and killed
his wife,

sixty-three-year-old
Diane McIver in Atlanta,
Georgia.

Tex claimed he
accidentally shot Diane

in the car on the way back
from a weekend getaway.

But authorities believe
it was intentional

and that he had
financial motives.

In 2018, he was convicted
of felony murder

and sentenced
to life in prison.

But the Georgia Supreme Court
overturned that conviction,

granting Tex a new trial,
because the jury was

not given the option
to convict him

on the lesser charge
of involuntary manslaughter.

Tex's retrial is now slated
for mid to late 2024.

Can I just
point something out?

This guy works at this
very prestigious law firm.

But, he was no longer
bringing in the clients.

His wife was footing the bill
for not only their condo...

And I've gone by there
and looked at the condo,

it is nice, guys.

I mean, like,
couple of million dollars.

Plus, hour and a half
outside the city, about a...

I forgot how many
thousand acre farm,

where he would go out there
and play the gentleman
farmer lawyer.

And have everybody come down
for big shindigs at his farm.

She was paying
for all of that.

[Derrick] Yeah,
there's a lot here
with motive,

and we could talk about
the fact that his net worth,

allegedly, went from
1.5 million to approximately

3.6 to 6.9 million
after Diane's death.

But I wanna talk about
the actual incident

because I know
as the cop here,
it's automatically,

"We're gonna charge him
of murder. That's what we're
gonna hit him with."

But I gotta tell you, he seems
like an intelligent guy,

at least he sounds like one.
If you're gonna do this,

I feel like,
out of respect for Diane,

there was a better way
to do it. He does it in
the back of a vehicle...

[Nancy] I can't believe
you're actually saying it was

-a dumb way to kill. Okay.
-Just follow me,
just follow me here.

You never wanna have
a witness with you,

because that's obviously...
[stutters]

...dissent from what you're
gonna say as far as what
you believe happened.

You have Dani Jo
in the vehicle who's
a friend of Diane's.

And the manner in which
he shot her,

and we can pull up
the 3D-rendering here

really quick while we're
talking about it.

They actually did
a 3D-rendering of it.
And again,

the way he shot her
through the back of a seat,

it's not a guarantee that
she would've passed away
from it.

You can see
the 3D rendering here.

He doesn't shoot her
in the back of the head.

He shoots her in the ribcage,
the stomach area.

There's a strong potential
that she could've survived
these injuries.

So I wonder if you're
intentionally trying
to kill her,

would you wanna do it
in the presence of
someone else?

And would you wanna do it
in a way where the shot itself
may not be fatal?

But here's the thing.
Right now, intent
no longer matters,

-because the jury
in the first trial...
-[Derrick] Good point.

...acquitted him
on malice murder,

which is intent.

So because they've
acquitted him on that,

in this new trial,
the judge ruled

that intent cannot be
introduced because

they've already decided
he didn't intend to
kill his wife.

And if they decide that again,
that's double jeopardy.

So, everything that
you mentioned about
the money as the motive,

prosecutors can't use that

-as a motive to kill.
-[Nancy] I can still
talk about it, though.

-[Derrick laughs]
-'Cause I think that's
what happened.

And guys,
he changed his story!

So there, the three of them
with the friend driving,

are coming back into the city.

And he says,
first of all, he sees...

He's asleep, he wakes up
and he sees homeless people,

and gets scared and demands
his gun. Really?

I lived one block from where
this shooting went down.

That's not true.

It's not true at all.

Then he said he was afraid
of the Black Lives Matter
protesters.

Not true.

No one was bothering his car
or approaching them.

So he says he gets the gun,
which has about 12 lb...

-[stutters] ...trigger pull.
-Trigger pull. Yeah.

-[Nancy] And...
-Revolver.

[Mara] What does that mean
for the layperson?

-If I... Yeah, you tell her.
-So, it's the amount of
pressure needed to pull...

It's not gonna be
an accidental discharge,
put it this way.

The gun didn't just
accidentally go off
in his hand.

You have to pull that trigger
pretty adamantly

-to get... [indistinct]
-You have to pull
with 12 lb of force.

So, him saying that
he was asleep

-and the car
went over a bump...
-No.

-[Nancy] That's another story.
-...that doesn't sound
plausible.

[Nancy] The car went over
a bump, and he went...
[shrieks] "Boop!"

And just shot her dead.
I don't believe that.

You have to pull the trigger.

Ballistics can show that,
right, Derrick?

[Derrick] It could.
But again, it's a matter of,

is he just someone who isn't
familiar with the firearm
like he should be?

Let's be honest,
he shouldn't have the gun
out while he's sitting

in the backseat.
That's just incompetence.

[Nancy] How can you
go to sleep with your
hand on the trigger

-of a gun?
-[Derrick speaks indistinctly]I wanna play a video

really quick if we can.
It's a video from
after the shooting.

It's hospital footage
where you actually see Diane

being brought
into the hospital.
Tex is with her.

Sometimes, you can see things
with body cam...

...with the body language.
Let's take a look and
see what you guys think.

[no audio]

[Derrick] Anything stand out
to you guys in this video
here?

I mean, to me,
there was really not much.

He's with her, obviously,
that's the right thing to do.

[Mara] But there have been
a lot of questions about
his behavior at the hospital.

That people say
he didn't seem to be
appropriately upset

about what happened.

He was changing his story
repeatedly multiple times.

A nurse said that
she overheard him say,

"Oh, the gun went off
when I was cleaning it
in the bathroom."

Which doesn't make any sense
because we know he was
in the car.

Um, and then, after the fact,

there is this attempt
to influence witnesses.

-[Derrick] Absolutely.
-And he was convicted on that,
and that conviction stands.

Where he told
the driver of the car,

-her friend, Dani,
to say she wasn't there.
-Dani Jo, yeah.

Where he told her husband
to not talk to the police.

And he's such an idiot
to be a trial lawyer,

-he actually leaves
her messages...
-[Mara chuckles]

...on her answering machine.

-But also very--
-[Derrick] He did say,
"delete this," though.

[laughs] Yeah.
"Hey, after I tell you what to
testify to, delete it."

-[Derrick] It doesn't count
if you say, "delete it."
-Very important,

she did not want him
in the room with her

at the hospital.

Can I tell you, when I
gave birth to the twins,

I did not let David
leave my side.

He sat there and read
the same verse out of Romans

until the children
were out and alive.

She said to the nurse,
"Don't let him in.

I don't want him in here."
Why? Why do you think?

Yeah. Because she saw him
as a threat.

Didn't she even say something
along the lines of, when they
asked her what happened,

she's like,
"I think it was an accident."
Didn't she say that?

-[Nancy] Or, "I thought
it was an accident."
-Yeah, "I thought

it was an accident."
So she wasn't even sure like,

-"How did this just happen?"
Obviously, she's in shock.
-[Nancy] And what about

selling all her stuff?
It reminds me of
Scott Peterson.

He tried to sell Laci's car

and ordered the porn channel.

He knew she wasn't
coming back home

because he killed her.

And immediately
after she dies,

Diane, who is making
all the money, working hard,

he throws a $300,000 sale
of all of her stuff.

-[Mara] Yeah.
-Forget about
giving it to family

or anything sentimental,

he needs the money
and he wants the money.

-[Mara] And--
-She was his meal ticket,
Mara.

Yeah, and that's part of
what can be introduced
to this new trial,

is his behavior
after the fact.

His behavior
with the witnesses,

his behavior in doing things
like that.

His behavior at the hospital.

But the one thing
that's gonna be really hard
for prosecutors to overcome

-is that they can't
introduce a motive.
-[Derrick] RIght.

They're definitely handcuffed.
So that's why the next guest
is gonna be

-great to speak to.
-Super important.

Tonight, a special guest.

The lead prosecutor
on the Tex McIver case.

What does he know that
any jury will never hear?

Man, you're preaching
to the choir, Clint Rucker.

That is Clint Rucker,
the lead prosecutor,

who has secured
Tex McIver's conviction

for killing his wife,
and our guest today.

Clint Rucker, thank you
for being with us.

That was an incredible
closing statement you gave.

The jury went with you,
but can I just ask you
right off the top,

what about him crying
[mimics crying]
in court?

He sure wasn't crying at
that $300,000 yard sale
he threw

selling all
of his wife's stuff.

And then he started
tearing up

and-- you know,
dabbing at his eyes
in court, really?

How sick did that make you?

Uh, yes, you know,
anytime you get
a defendant

who, at the most
appropriate time,

chooses to shed
the waterworks,

it's always, uh,
interesting to see.

I don't think the jury
bought it one bit.

Mara, what do you think?

Well, there was an acquittal
on malice murder.

So, I'm wondering
your thoughts on that.

So, why do you think
that he was acquitted
on malice murder?

That now really hamstrings you
for the upcoming trial.

Right, well,
with respect to
malice murder, of course,

you know, it requires
that element

of a deliberately
intended act

that's designed to cause
the death of another person.

And I think that, um,

the fact that
the investigation
did not reveal

the second will
that we believe
provided the primary motive

for the shooting, uh,

-in as much as Diane
was going to leave--
-[Nancy] Hold on, hold on.

Ho-- [chuckles] What?

The second will?
Hold on.

What second will?
Tell me about a second will.

And what happened to it?

So, one of the things
that happened
during the trial

is that the jury heard
that there had been

ongoing, really violent
disputes

between Diane
and Tex McIver

over the re-writing
of Diane's will.

She wanted to leave
all of her property

to someone else
other than Tex.

And uh, that included
the ranch

for which she had
a $350,000
outstanding loan

she had given to Tex

that she intended
to call due

and foreclose
on that ranch.

-So, there was a lot at stake.
-I'm sorry, my head
is about to spin off.

He took $350,000
from his own wife

to prop up that ranch

down in Eatonton, Georgia?

[Rucker] That's
absolutely right.

-[Nancy] Hmm.
-[Rucker] And I'll tell you,

Diane was such a smart
businesswoman,

she didn't just give
the money to her husband,
like,

"You all right, my dude."

Uh, she actually
put it on paper,

she took out a lien
against the property

so that if he didn't
pay her back

and that money was due,

in a couple of weeks
after the shooting,

she would have the right
to foreclose on that ranch

-and own it outright.
-[Nancy] Hmm.

Clint, I have a--
a question for you

about this upcoming trial

involving
the involuntary manslaughter,
the potential of that.

But, before we get into that,
I wanna play a clip
for the audience.

-Sure.
-This is interrogation footage

from Tex McIver
where he describes,

the incident that
we're talking about today.

[Rucker] Sure.

[Derrick] Now, Clint,
you know that obviously,

Tex's defense team
successfully argued

that the jury was
improperly instructed

uh, as regards to
the consideration

of a lesser charge
of involuntary manslaughter.

What's your thoughts
going forward with that?

Do you have a game plan
in place?

Are you prepared
for it?

Well, I will tell you that

there were lots
of discussions.

Uh, as you all know,

there's always a conference
that occurs

between the lawyers
and the judge
where you discuss

the charges that the judge
will tell the jury about.

Uh, and there was
really vigorous litigation

um, in law

and I believe at the time
supported opposition,

that he was not entitled
to the misdemeanor

-involuntary manslaughter
charge...
-[Mara] Mmm-hmm, mmm-hmm.

...in as much as
he maintained the position

that he did not
pull the trigger.

-Interesting.
-He always maintained
the position

that the gun
simply went off.

-And that is--
-There was a malfunctioning

-of the gun.
-That defense
is incompatible

with a involuntary
misdemeanor charge.

It's-It's very obvious.

If you're gonna say,
"I did not pull the trigger",

-involuntary itself means
you don't--
-[Mara] Can you explain--

[Nancy] Uh,
you explain it, Clint.

[Mara] Now, help us out,
help the non-lawyers here

understand the distinction.

Sure.

So, uh, the misdemeanor
would've been

uh, based on
a reckless conduct, right?

So, uh, the theory
would've been

by his lawyers that,

he was reckless
in as much as

his handling of the weapon.

And so, it was
the reckless handling
of the weapon

that then fired a bullet
that then later
caused her death.

In most situations
in Georgia,

that can be misdemeanor
involuntary manslaughter.

The typical scenario
you see is,

I'm cleaning my gun,

-I'm in my house.
-[Derrick] Mmm-hmm.

[Rucker] Uh, I don't realize
there's a bullet
in the chamber.

I have my finger
on the trigger,

I pull the trigger
in cleaning the gun,

the gun goes off,
the bullet goes
through the wall,

and I strike somebody
in the next room
and they die.

-So-So, is it fair to s--
-Misdemeanor
involuntary manslaughter

-all day long.
-Is-Is it-- Well,
is it fair to say

with this upcoming trial,

we were talking about
in the previous segment,

a firearm expert
is gonna be critical.

Because it goes back
to the...

-Trigger pull.
-The amount of
trigger pull

we needed to pull
that gun.

We see a lot of cases,
I've-I've covered
a lot of cases

where you have a husband
or a wife cleaning their gun

and they shoot their spouse
accidentally.

-It-It happens.
-Well, do yo have to put--
help me understand this,

-'cause I know nothing
about firearms.
-[Derrick] Yeah.

Do you have to pull
the trigger to clean a gun?

-No, you don't,
that's the problem.
-No, you don't.

That's the problem.

But, you have people
who mishandle the gun

where they don't even know
there's a round
in the chamber.

I've got something
really important.

Clint, is it true
you have seen the saloon?

Yeah, so as part of
the investigation

and the pre-trial
preparation,

I did have a chance
to go down

and visit the ranch
on a few occasions

and was able to tour it.

And uh, I will tell you,
it's magnificent.

-There's a huge main house.
-[Derrick] Hmm.

[Rucker] Then,
the ranch is, uh,

a little bit less
than 100 acres.

Once you get to
the main house,

there's a big pool
in the back

and behind the pool,

there is an old style
western saloon,

as though you walked in
off the set of Tombstone.

It's fantastic.

But-But Clint,
you can't introduce

any of these elements
of wealth

as motive for killing Diane.

So, how do you plan
to overcome that hurdle?

Well, one of the things that
uh, Georgia law allows is

in order to convict
the person of murder,

you don't have to
prove motive.

Motive is not
a necessary element

to convict the person
of-of murder.

And in this case, um,

the State has to prove
that an aggravated assault
was committed.

And in this case,
aggravated assault
is charged

as shooting his wife
with a handgun.

Uh, if you can establish
that element

and the shooting
of that handgun

caused the death
of Diane McIver,

you've got felony murder.

That's right, and Clint,
he was about to
lose it all.

That big, huge spread
that he built,

all the money, everything.

If she left that money
to her nephew,

and it was happening,
Clint,

and she was gonna call in
that $350,000 loan on him.

It was all going
down the drain, Clint.

That right, we had
a forensic, uh, deep dive

into his finances
as well as hers.

On the day
of the shooting,

the check in account
for Tex McIver

-was a negative $5,402.
-[Derrick sighs]

Clint Rucker,
I'll see you in court,
young man.

Here are CrimeFeed,
we bring you
the biggest crime stories

from across
our great nation.

Some whipped
from the headlines,

some, you may never
have heard of.

From Mara, Derrick
and myself,

see you next week.

Happy holidays,
and good night, friend.