All language subtitles for CrimeFeed S01 E03_track3_[eng]

[narrator] Tonight,
onCrimefeed,

a special report,

the Natalee Holloway
mystery solved.

The search for Natalee
Holloway's killer
is finally over.

Juran van der Sloot,
main suspect all along,

admits he did it,
after two decades of deceit.

How? The way many speculate.
Cold blooded and brutal,

on a beach in Aruba.

As far as I'm concerned,
it's over.

It's over.

[narrator] All the details
on thisCrimefeed,

special report
with Nancy Grace.

Private investigator,
Derrick Levasseur,

and investigative reporter,
Mara S. Campo.

Good evening.
I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crimefeed.

I wanna thank you
for being with us.

She goes missing
on her high-school
senior trip to Aruba.

And tonight, neither she
nor her body

have ever been found.

But in a stunning twist,

a judge's son admits,

"I killed Natalee."

Mara, what's the latest?

Nancy, Joran van der Sloot
was not on trial

for Natalee Holloway's murder.

A judge in Alabama
sentenced him to 20 years

for trying to swindle money
from Natalee's mother, Beth,

for what turned out
to be bogus information
on her daughter's whereabouts.

A condition of that plea deal

was that he finally
tell the truth

on this nearly
20-year-old case.

In May 2005,

high-school senior,
Natalee Holloway
was in Aruba,

with more than 100
of her fellow classmates,

celebrating their graduation.

In the early hours
of May 30th,

Natalee left a bar
with Dutch national,
Joran van der Sloot

and two Surinamese brothers,
named Deepak
and Satish Kalpoe.

The 18 year old was supposed
to be flying back to Alabama
later that day.

But she was never seen
or heard from again.

The three men were arrested
in her disappearance
two weeks later.

Van der Sloot's father, Paul,
and a fifth man
were also detained.

But they were all released
due to a lack of evidence.

It is now that I ask
the world to help me.

[Mara] For years,
Natalee's parents
searched for leads.

And their daughter's
story went viral
all over the world.

Five years to the very day
after Natalee vanished,

Van der Sloot killed
21 year old
Stephany Flores

in a hotel in Lima, Peru.

She allegedly saw
a message,

tying him to Natalee's murder.

And he beat her
and smothered her to death.

In 2012, Van der Sloot
pleaded guilty
to that murder.

And was sentenced
to 28 years in prison.

Those weren't his
only legal troubles.

A federal grand jury
in Alabama indicted
Van der Sloot

for trying to extort
Natalee's mother, Beth.

She paid an initial $25,000
of a quarter million dollars

for information
on her daughter's death.

Joran told her attorney
that Natalee's remains

were buried under
the foundation of a house.

But that was a lie.

That brings us to this summer.

When Peru extradited
Van der Sloot to the U.S.

He had initially pleaded
not guilty in the case.

But just last week, a deal.

Van der Sloot would
receive a 20 year sentence

on the condition he revealed
what actually happened

to Natalee,
all those years ago.

This is part
of his confession.

[Joran] We start
kissing each other.

And I start feeling
her up again.

And she tells me, no.

I insist. I keep feeling
her up either way.

She ends up kneeing
me in the crotch.

I get up on the beach
and I kick her extremely
hard in the face.

She's laying down unconscious,
possibly even dead.

I see right next to her,

there's a huge cinder block.

I take this and I smash her
head in with it completely.

I've gotta tell you something.

In that courtroom,
as I watched
Beth Holloway,

and she looked over
at Joran van der Sloot.

And she turned around
and said to him,

"You look like hell.

I don't think
you're gonna make it."

And he did, Mara.
He did, Derrick.

He looked like a bum
that had been sleeping

out on a park bench
for the last ten years.

He was dissipated.

All that liquor,
and drugs, and women

behind bars in Peru, Mara.

You can only imagine
what this moment means
for Beth Holloway.

Because keep this in mind,

this investigation has lasted
as long as Natalee's
entire life.

This is been 18 years,

that she has been waiting
for this moment,
to get some answers.

So finally to be able
to be face to face with him

and to feel that she
got some answers.

Now a lot of people
are still questioning

how much
of that confession is true.

Now he did pass
a polygraph test.

So, we have to assume
that some of it is true.

But this man
is a pathological liar.

His story has changed
countless times,
over the last 18 years.

Yeah, it's bittersweet.
I'm happy for Beth
and David and Matt.

But also as an investigator,
it's disappointing.

Because, we had
this guy in 2005.

And Aruban authorities
didn't allow the FBI
to come in and help.

So we have a future death
of Stephany Flores in 2010.

That could have
been prevented.

And it also makes me wonder,

how many other
victims are there.

How many other times
could we have prevented this,

if they took him
off the streets in 2005?

[Nancy]
You're absolutely right.

It's really important
that we hear

Joran van der Sloot's
confession,
in his own words.

But I wanna warn you,
it's very disturbing.

[Joran]
I smashed her head in,
with it completely.

Even though it's dark, I can
see her face is collapsed in.

I'm scared.
I don't know what to do.

And I, um...[clears throat]
I decide to...

to take her and...

put her into the ocean.

So...

I grab her and I...

I half... I half-pull
and half-walk with her
into the ocean.

Into the sea.
After that I walk home.

'Kay. Right there,
that's a lie.

Uh, we have looked and looked
and examined in person,

where he says he
murdered Natalee.

There at the fishermen's huts.

And there is now way,

that he walked out
into the ocean,
with her body.

What did he say?
Oh, I guess
this is deep enough.

I'll just leave her here.

There's no way she would
not have washed ashore, Mara.

Yeah, I mean there
are questions about that.

How did the body
not wash ashore?

How was the crime
scene not found?

And, Derrick, I know
this is something, that you've
made excellent points on, is,

how much blood may
have been left behind?

And for me as a layperson,

I'm asking you
as an investigator.

-We're talking about a crime
scene that is a public beach.
-[Derrick] Mmm-hmm.

How much would that have
complicated the investigation?

And, how much obvious evidence
would have been left behind,

on a public beach,
if what he's saying is true?

[Derrick]
That's exactly right.
We had talked about this.

First off, contamination.

As a crime scene
investigator,

you wanna try
to prevent people

from entering the crime scene.

And this being a public area,

that could have
posed some issues.

But, back to what
you said.

When he describes
what he did to Natalee,

and you think about
it from that perspective,

there would have been
a lot of blood.

And this happened at night.

And at no point did he say
that he cleaned up
the crime scene...

-[Nancy] Right.
-...after the fact.

So you think about
it from that perspective.

He dragged her body
to the water.

How much blood would
have been left behind?

And one more thing.

This is still
an open investigation,

according
to Aruban authorities.

Did anybody make
any report of this?

Was there blood found
on the beach the next
morning that they have--

-[Nancy] I can
answer that for you.
-Oh, please.

No.

No one made a report.

And no one followed up
on any of the evidence.

As a matter of fact,

Beth Holloway,
Ginger Stricklin,
Sheryl McCollum, and I

went to Aruba
a few months ago,

trying to dig up
new leads.

And actually,
there are some new leads.

But we went
to the fishermen's hut area,

there on the beach
together,

with Natalee's mother.

And looked out at the water.

Um, I recall there were
cinder blocks there.

But I find his story
to be very farfetched.

That is one of the shots,

when we were in Aruba.

Which I'll tell you
about later.

But the theory that there
was gonna be blood

on a beach in Aruba, no.

As a matter of fact,

Natalee's mother
flew down immediately

when she was reported missing.

And started searching,
including there.

She actually spoke
to Joran van der Sloot.

And cannot tell you
that he described

Natalee's underwear to her.

Well, Nancy, but that--
You're speaking to the part
of the confession

that I actually do believe.

Is that he sexually
assaulted her

and that she fought off
his advances.

And that's what
triggered his anger.

And what that makes
me think of is,

how terrified she
must have been
in her final moments

on a beach,
in a foreign country,

alone with this man,

who is not respecting
her wishes.

That she felt she had
to physically fight back

to protect herself.

And what I also
find very chilling is,

keep in mind,
he was 17 years old,
when this happened.

Think of how depraved
this man had to be

to commit this act
when he was still
a teenager.

The only thing about
Natalee's body,

I agree with you,
I find it hard to believe

that he would carry her out.
I think he said knee deep.

-It's a lie.
-And she would come back.

And the only thing
I will say is,

you do have a lot
of sharks in that water.

And you could have
a situation where
she's bleeding a lot.

They could have
been attracted to that.

Maybe why she would
never have washed ashore.

-[Nancy]
Question for Derrick.
-Hit me with it.

He, idiot,

tells the mother
of Natalee.

He describes in detail
the flowers
on her underwear.

That's not what he says.
He says, "I was
feeling her up."

His words, not mine.

"And she kicked me."

Have you noticed,

the defendants--
I have.

They always leave out
the worst parts
of what happened.

They don't wanna say
what they really did.

What's this all about?

He's a psychopath.
What's it all about?
Control.

In the moment when
the crime happens
and afterwards,

he's trying to control
the narrative.

He's given you a piece of it,
but not the full story.

I completely agree with you.

I think the initial assault,
the fighting back,

was because of a sexual
assault that was taking place.

That was taking place,
"Allegedly."

-Allegedly.
-"Allegedly."
Let's just tack that on.

Guys, can a judge's son

and double killer
Joran van der Sloot

ever be believed?

Many say, no.

One of Beth Holloway's
closest confidants,

who is in the courtroom, next.

Over the decades,
many theories

about what could have
happened to Natalee Holloway
have emerged.

Was Natalee kidnapped?
Was she sex trafficked?

But it always came
back to one person,
and one person only.

Judge's son,
Joran van der Sloot.

Now with us,
joining us,

straight out
of that courtroom confession,

forensics expert,
Sheryl McCollum.

Sheryl traveled with
Beth Holloway and myself

to Aruba, to search
for evidence
in Natalee's death.

We sat side by side
in court, Sheryl.

I don't believe him,
except for one thing,

"I killed Natalee."

That's the only thing
he's telling the truth about,
Sheryl McCollum.

I agree with you.

But, there's more
to it than that for me.

If you look at the murder
of Stephany Flores,

and the murder
of Natalee Holloway,

you and Derrick can attest to,
there's some similar
transactions here.

He met them both
on the exact same day.

He played poker with them,
the night before.

He gets them separated
from a group of people.

He takes them both
to a secluded area.

He tries to have sex
with both of them.

When they refuse,

he hit them with
a part of his body.

Stephany Flores
with his elbow.

And he claims he kicked
Natalee in the head.

Then he grabbed objects

to complete
this bludgeoning,

until they were murdered.

After that,

he either goes
into the ocean
and cleans up.

With Stephany, he goes
into the shower
to clean up.

With Natalee, he grabs
a cinder block.

With Stephany, he takes
a tennis racket.

He beats Stephany
Flores so bad,

he cracked her skull
and broke her neck.

[Nancy] I'm glad
you mentioned that.

Because I want
you to hear

Joran van der Sloot's
own words regarding Natalee.

We're talking about
a so-called confession,

Joran van der Sloot gave.

Take a listen to this.

[Joran] We lay down
together in the sand.

And...

we start kissing each other.

I get her to kiss me again.

And I start feeling
her up again.

And she tells me, no.

She tells me, she doesn't
want me to feel her up.

Uh, I insist. I keep feeling
her up either way.

Um, she ends up
kneeing me in the crotch.

I get up on the beach.

And I kick her extremely
hard in the face.

Um...

Yeah, she's laying
down unconscious.

Possibly even...
even dead

But definitely unconscious.

And according to him,
he picks up a cinder block,

and crack--
and beats her skull in.

And he describes her
face being mashed in.

Another thing, they arrest.

When you and I
and Beth and Ginger
go to Aruba,

we had not been
on the ground an hour.

And we get detained.

Beth and I actually
get detained,

by, it looks like SWAT,
for Pete's sake.

Remember? And let's see
that photo one, Charles.

[Sheryl] So I am between
our cars and the Holiday Inn.

Y'all go to the Holiday Inn
and here they come.

-[Nancy] And try to get in.
-[Sheryl] And try to get in.

But the police come,
they fall out of this car.

They surround you and Beth.

They start telling you
how you can be arrested.

So I think it's important
to document it.

So, first I take a selfie,

with them in the background.

And then they tell me,
I can be arrested
for taking a photograph.

And then I slide behind

to get the photograph
that you just showed.

You and Beth were so tiny.

And they're just telling you,
how they're fixed
to take you to jail.

And you said
something so,
just unbelievably accurate.

When you said to them,
"Let me get this straight.

You are here
to arrest us in 17 minutes.

But you haven't found a way
to arrest Joran van der Sloot
in 17 years."

[Derrick] Sheryl,
I want to dive
in on what you said.

'Cause I agree with you.

As far as the comparisons
between Stephany and Natalee.

And we also know, there were
some more bones found
on the island as well.

And they're belonging
to a European female,
I believe.

[Sheryl] Correct.

So we think about
Joran's MO, right?

He would go to these casinos.
He would allegedly
look for women

who were getting ready
to leave the island.

Even some allegations
that he used

GHB during
these interactions with them.

Do you think,
maybe even
before Natalee,

definitely after Natalee,

that there's more victims
out there that we
don't know of yet?

-A hundred percent.
We have bones.
-[Derrick] Right.

-You think that could be tied
to Van der Sloot?
-That his people knew about...

Oh, there's no question.
'Cause his friends
let us to the bones.

When we were there,
we had bartender
after bartender,

after person
from these hotels,
telling us,

this was his MO.

[Derrick] They knew him?
Taxi drivers,

-bartenders? Absolutely.
-Absolutely.

And his father was there too.

But the other thing
about Stephany Flores,

there was GHB found
in her car.

But not the $10,000
that she had won.

So again,
if you watch his MO,

and you watch what he does,
it's very clear.

So, Sheryl, in terms
of the investigation
in the crime scene,

if the confession is true,

how do you think he managed
to clean up that crime scene?

Or was it just that Aruban
officials completely
botched the investigation?

[Sheryl] Listen,
Aruba is known
for scuba diving.

And they're known
for something
called drift diving.

Where you just get
in the current
and it takes you out.

He would know
those currents.

[Mara] But to Derrick's point
from earlier about the sand.

I'm getting there.
I promise you.

But I want you to understand
he understood currents.

Because even when he was
captured with Stephany Flores,

he had charts, detailing
currents in Peru.

Why would he know that?

Why would he
be studying currents?

-[Mara] I did not know that.
-Okay.

[Nancy] Hey, guys,
the other thing in the crime
scene, for Pete's sake.

-It's a beach.
-It's a beach.

Wind, surf,
high tide, low tide.

-That's right.
-We keep talking about
the crime scene. It's a beach.

There is no crime scene.

[Sheryl] Exactly right.

Sheryl, I want you to tell
Derrick and Mara

about when we were there.

And we were driving up

-to the top of Alto Vista.
-Sure.

The little hill where
Beth went when
she was there,

searching for Natalee.

Getting no answers.
Getting thwarted by police,
left and right.

And the cab driver
was driving her.

She saw a cross
on the side of the road.

She said, "Let me out."

-And she described how she
threw herself on the dirt.
-Correct.

And was beating the dirt.

And praying,
"Where is my daughter?
Where is my daughter?"

That photo, Sheryl,

was when you and I
and Beth were there.

And she got out
at that cross.

In the end, at the time
she looked up,
she saw another cross.

She went all the way
to the top of the hill.

-Right.
-To the little chapel.

-It's about as big
as your kitchen.
-Mmm-hmm.

And she said
for the first time,

I'll never forget it.

She said at that moment,

"I knew for the first time
that Natalee was dead."

You know, it was such
a powerful moment.

Because she said
when she fell to the ground,
at that first cross,

she just screamed to God,

"Give her back to me."

And she didn't understand
why would you
give her to me,

to take her from me.

And she said,
as she got to each cross,

she said, you know,
she felt a little more peace

and a little more
empowered.

But when she got to the top,

she didn't go
inside the chapel.

She just laid down
on the ground
in front of it.

And that was the first
time she knew

-and accepted Natalee's gone.
-[Nancy] Hmm.

-[Derrick] Yeah,
let's get into--
-Derrick, look at this photo

of Beth, Sheryl, and me
in front of that tiny,
tiny, little chapel

that Sheryl is describing.
It's our photo three,

-and...
-But I gotta tell you
something else she said.

So here,
we're crying with her.

I mean,
she's telling us this story
that any momma, anybody,

would just be gutted to hear.

And as we're sitting there,
we're sitting right there,

and she looks at Nancy and I,
and she says,

"I know y'all think I'm crazy,

but I brought
Natalee's passport,
just in case."

-[Derrick softly] Ah.
-So, for 10 years or more,

she said
she never left home, guys,

-without Natalee's passport...
-[Sheryl] Mmm.

...in case she got the call,
no matter where she was,

that Natalee
had been found alive,

and she could travel there
and bring Natalee home.

That just speaks
to a mother's hope

that you never give up hope
of finding your baby.

And while she has
expressed relief

at finally
having some answers,

um, you can only imagine
how bittersweet this is
right now

because the answer
also means finality.

[Derrick] I definitely still--
I don't wanna put
a damper on it,

but I'm still just struggling
with the idea

of sense of urgency, right?

Law enforcement
not acting right away.

I know,
you're the expert in this,
but for me being on a beach,

I think if they had
acted right away

and went there
the next morning,

maybe there would have been
something, forensically,

that would've put us
in a different position

where Beth wasn't traveling
days later to find
her daughter.

They could've solved it
right away and known
what happened to her.

Derrick, not only was there
not a sense of urgency,

they told this momma,

"Hey,
when they're done with her,
they'll turn her loose.

-You'll see her just
walking down the street."
-[Nancy] That's exactly

-what they said.
-Look, all the authorities
were talking about...

-[Sheryl] Yes.
-..."Well, murder's not good
for tourist business."

Right?
That's obviously part of it.
So, it's a lot deeper.

I know we have
a short amount of time,
but it's deep.

Sheryl McCollum, as always,
forensics expert,

thank you
for being with us.
When we come back,

it always came back
to one person,
Joran van der Sloot.

Is his punishment enough?

Natalee would be
thirty-six years old today.

I still miss her every day.

It's been a very long
and painful journey,

but we finally got the answers

we've been searching for
for all these years.

We finally, today,
we get justice for Natalee.

Two long decades
of blood, sweat, and tears

to solve the disappearance
and death of teen girl,

American beauty
Natalee Holloway,

including her mother,
Beth Holloway's
trips to Aruba.

Joining me right now, uh,

a beautiful friend
and confidant

of Beth Holloway's,
Ginger Stricklin.

Ginger traveled with Beth,
me, and Sheryl to Aruba

to search for evidence
in Natalee's death.

Ginger, this woman,
Beth Holloway,

she was so poised.

Remember, in court,
in the Hugo Black
Federal Courthouse

this past week,
not even a week ago,

she, everyone was
sitting there, quietly,

and of course,
there were armed bailiffs,

sheriffs, guards,
at every door,

which is common
when there is a sentencing

in case the defendant
tries to make a run for it.

Heavily guarded,
everyone was seated
and quiet.

Sheriffs were trolling
the aisles, remember, Ginger?

And then in walks Beth.

-And there was a hush
that went over that courtroom.
-Yes.

And of course,
she was beautiful, as always,

but the pain was clearly
etched on her face,
Ginger Stricklin.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. I was so proud

that she held herself
and she was so strong.

And we saw that,
Nancy, in the courtroom.

She did an amazing job,

um, holding up through that.

And then when she got to
speak with him,

or get to, you know,
when she got to

say to him
what she wanted to say,

it was
a sense of accomplishment

of a goal that
she had set out to

finish what she started.

Eighteen long years
of having this goal

of having her daughter's
murder confessed.

And knowing that
he had lied for so long,

but just to have him
confess to these murders,

or this murder and then,
of course, Stephany Flores.

It just was a,
I think it was a,

a satisfactory feeling
that she had,

you know,
a sense of accomplishment

of something that she had
set out to make happen.

You mentioned
Stephany Tatiana Flores,

who was another murder victim
of Joran van der Sloot,

to the day, five years later
that he murdered Natalee,

same MO, modus operandi,
method of operation, Ginger,

we've talked about this
in Aruba.

He meet Stephany in a casino,

befriends her,
tries to get her alone,

and ends up smothering
and bludgeoning her dead.

So, if Aruba had acted
when he murdered Natalee,

Stephany Tatiana Flores
would be alive.

But I want you,
Ginger, to tell everyone

what Beth Holloway said
to Joran van der Sloot
in court.

She stood up there,
so brave and so strong,

and she turned around
with her feisty little self
and said,

"You look like hell, Joran,

and you will not survive."

And it was almost like
everybody in that courtroom,

and...[indistinct]
...both discussed this,
it was a good thing

we were not sitting
side-by-side

because we would've
had a fight.

It was like
Beth gave a gut punch

to him right there
for everybody there.

That's why I feel like,
you know, it was--

She's waited so long
to have these words to him,

to get to him,
and give him a punch.

-And we all felt that,
and we were so proud of her...
-[Mara] Mmm.

...for being able to
say this to him.

Ginger, you know,
there have been questions

about how much
of this confession is true.

And clearly,
it was very important,
understandably,

to Beth that
he took responsibility

for murdering Natalee.

But in terms of the specifics
of the confession,

does she believe
the entire thing,

or are there still questions
about whether or not

he's lying in parts of this?

She believes the most of it.

And I think
there's parts, yes,

that I think she feels like
he probably still is
lying about,

because he's lied so much.

He's just told lie after lie.

-But, I--
-[Nancy] Ginger,
we've counted up 10

different stories he's told,

and speaking of
Joran van der Sloot's
so-called confession,

take a listen to this.

[Joran in recording]
Yeah, Deepak drops me off
at a place, uh,

a little right
of the Marriott hotel,
known as the Fisherman's Huts.

-We walk along the beach, uh--
-[man 1] Um, do Deepak
and Satish

get out, come with, uh...

-What happens to them?
-[Joran] Uh, Deepak
and Satish leave.

Uh, they leave, uh,

they go back to their home.

I assume
they go back to their home.

Um, they get in their car
and they leave.

Ginger Stricklin,
I don't believe that.

I believe
Deepak and Satish Kalpoe

know exactly what happened,

and that
he's lying about that too,

because they could
rat him out,

and this could be prosecuted
as a murder.

I do too, Nancy. I really do.

I think they know
more than what, um,

than what they're,
he's telling,

and I think
that's another lie.

Um, it was just
a heinous murder,

and we know that
he's capable of that.

No doubt in my mind,

Natalee kneed him
when she did not want

the sexual advances,
and it made him mad.

But if Aruban authorities
wanna pursue this,

they've already asked
for the case files.

They wanna know more
about this confession.

Would Beth still be
willing to cooperate
with them?

Because maybe
through corroboration,

other individuals
like the Kalpoe brothers

potentially could still
be charged. We don't know yet.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

I think she is definitely,
she's relieved here,

you know,
in the United States here,
um, with this whole battle.

But, yes, absolutely.

And I think they should
have to

be responsible for this,

especially after this
confession has come out.

And it, the United States
should boycott Aruba

if nothing's done,
in my opinion,

there should be no flights
from the U.S. to there.

Just a boycott.
And I know that's

probably not gonna happen,
won't happen.

But, somebody needs to
take a stand in Aruba

since that
confession happened here.

Ginger Stricklin,
truer words were never spoken.

We are taking a stand.
But, can I tell you this?

I almost hate to tell you.

After Natalee Holloway
first went missing,

do you know tourism in Aruba
from America actually went up?

But you know what?
We can keep trying.

Ginger Stricklin,
you're awesome.

Thank you for being with us.

What is the truth?

Will Joran van der Sloot

find another way
to escape justice?

Now, Aruban cops demand
van der Sloot's confession.

Why? Will they somehow
mount a murder prosecution?

In exchange
for a detailed confession

on what really happened
to Natalee Holloway,

judge is saying
Joran van der Sloot
gets 20 years

for extorting
a grieving mother,
Beth Holloway.

The 20 years runs concurrently
or same time,

with 28 years he gets
for the murder

of another young woman,
Stephany Tatiana Flores.

He murdered Stephany
five years, to the day,

from when he murdered Natalee.

But will he really
stay behind bars?

The one thing
I heard the judge say
over and over

in the federal courtroom
at the Hugo Black Building
in Birmingham

this past week was,

"If, for any reason,
you get out early,

whether there's
a change in the law..."

For instance, think about
Charles Manson. Right?

He got the death penalty,
but the law changed.

So, he grew to a ripe old age
behind bars.

She's saying,
"If the law changes
and you get out early,

you gotta come back
to the U.S.

-If, for whatever reason,
you get out early..."
-[Mara] Yeah.

"...you must come back
to the U.S.

to finish serving
this sentence."

Will it ever happen?

I mean, can he be apprehended?
Derrick?

Yeah. I mean,
I definitely don't think
he's gonna get out

any time soon
'cause you have to
remember in 2021,

he was also, uh,
convicted of cocaine.

He was trafficking cocaine
in the prisons in Peru.

So, we got
another 18 years for that.

[Nancy] Is that concurrent
or consecutive?

So, it's gonna be consecutive,
but the thing is,

he can't do more than 35 years
in total based on Peru law.

So, he can't--
Unless you get
a life sentence,

you have to be let out
after 35 years.

So, if he does that time,

that would run concurrently
with the 20-year sentence

here in the United States,
so he would be out by 2045.

Which, to me,
is still crazy to think that

this entire show we've been
talking about this guy

and what he's capable of,

-that he could be
walking the streets again.
-Right.

So, he's gonna get out
when he's in his 50s.

And so the question...
And then that is
taking into account

this 20-year sentence
that is running concurrently.

So, assuming he serves
his entire sentence in Peru,

he gets out in 2045.

He will be in his 50s,
and he will be facing

no more prison time
for any of the crimes

that we know of at this time.

And so, I think
the legitimate question

that a lot of people
are asking is,

"Is this really justice
for someone that we know

has killed two women?

For someone that clearly
seems to be a psychopath?"

You know, his motivation
for extorting Beth Holloway
was revenge

because she had been
making his life difficult

in searching for her daughter.

This is a depraved human being

that will be out
back on the streets in,

you know,
when he's still
relatively young.

I heard the judge
keep mentioning the year 2043.

Um, what it boils down to is,

if he is released early
in Peru,

which is entirely possible,

and as of right now,
with us sitting on this set,

he is still in the U.S.

Now, a lot of people
have said,

"He doesn't wanna
get back to Peru."

No, he wants to
go back to Peru,
and I'll tell you why.

In his Peruvian jail,

he gets alcohol,
he gets drugs.

He has unlimited
conjugal visits.

He's already had one child,
one wife,

and now he's got a girlfriend.

So, yeah. He wants to
go back to Peru.

The only hope
many of us held out

is that Aruba,
since there's a confession,

will now prosecute him
for murder.

I mean, we've given 'em
the case on a silver platter.

But, Aruba has a homicide
statute of limitations
of 12 years.

-[Derrick] Ridiculous.
-So, uh...

[Mara] But there are,
potentially,

some ways to extend
that statute of limitations.

And one of those ways
is if they can demonstrate

some kind of fraudulent
concealment.

That can reset things.
And I think in this case,

you can make a case that
there were several instances

of fraudulent concealment.

So, the real question is,

do Aruban authorities
want to prosecute this case?

And every indication
that we've gotten

over the last 18 years
says they really don't.

[Derrick] Well,
they have asked
for the case files,

so my hope is twofold.
I know, I know.

-[Nancy chuckles]
-It's twofold here.

-First and foremost,
there's another--
-I don't know whether to laugh

or cry, so I chose
kind of a...

With law enforcement,
there's an...

[Nancy] Aruba has
done nothing.

You know what Beth told me?

When her daughter
goes missing,

she flies down, she's running,

literally running around Aruba
trying to retrace Natalee's
steps.

She goes to the police office.

She sits outside
the chief of police office.

For five hours,
she sits there.

They keep saying,
"He's gone. He's..."

Finally, he comes
out of his office,

and he's been
back there eating,

and having his hair cut.

-[Derrick] Mmm.
-While the mother of this,
now we know murdered girl,

is out there crying,
trying to speak to
the chief of police.

They're not gonna help.

Think how bad this looks
for Aruban authorities,
though, right?

So, you have a situation
where the FBI

initially wanted
to get involved.

-Aruba didn't
want 'em involved.
-[Nancy] Mmm.

Now, Joran gets transferred
to United States,

FBI get in there,
they get a confession.

This makes Aruban authorities
look bad.

This makes their whole
government look terrible.

They have to
try to correct this
because there's no trust

in that community now
with that law enforcement
agency.

So, there's two things
that could happen here.

Yes, they could try to find
a loophole for Joran,

but also, like I said earlier
with Sheryl,

there may be other cases
that haven't been closed yet

that they're still
trying to connect to.

Now we have
a profile on Joran.

Could he be connected
to other cases?

There may be other charges
brought for completely
different victims.

-That's my hope.
-[Nancy] FYI,
we've had a profile

since he murdered
Stephany Tatiana Flores.

-[Derrick] It's true.
That is true.
-Many years ago.

-We know he murdered Natalee.
-[Derrick] Now we have
a pattern.

-Now we have a pattern to it.
-Yes.

-Mara?
-Well, I think that
sadly Ginger was right.

Ginger said
earlier in the show

that the only thing
that's really gonna move this

is some kind of boycott.
And in their case,

it would have to be
a tourism boycott.

-[Derrick] Mmm.
-No one's gonna
ban flights to Aruba,

but if Americans say,
"You know what?

We're gonna go somewhere else.
There are a lot of other
beautiful places to go."

-Then, maybe that will
motivate some action.
-I wouldn't let my daughter

go over there,
that's for sure.

I swore I would never
go to Aruba

after Natalee went missing.

I went back
one time with Beth.

Coming up.

Why is it that
so many victims,

victims of domestic abuse
are afraid to speak out?

How can we help victims
of domestic violence?

Next.

One in four women,
one in 10 men,

experience sex violence
or physical violence,

and or stalking
by an intimate partner
here in the U.S.

Twenty-four people victimized
every minute that passes.

Sixty-five percent of victims
who come forward say,

"No one helped."

October, domestic violence
awareness month.

In its annual
No Excuse For Abuse campaign,

ID partners with No More

to end domestic abuse
and sex violence.

With us now, Jane Randel.

Co-founder of No More,
to end domestic violence
and sex assault.

Jane, honor and privilege
to have you with us here
on Crimefeed.

-[Jane] Thank you.
-If you are in
a violent relationship,

what can you do?

The first thing I want
anybody in a violent
relationship

right now to know is that
that you are not alone,

and there are people
that can help.

We are very fortunate,
in our country.

We have a lot of resources.

The National Domestic
Violence Hotline for one.

You can chat, you can text,
you can speak.

Um, an app called Bright Sky,
which is relatively new

that you can download.
It looks like a weather app.

But if you put
your zip code in,

it tells you
all your local resources.

You know, the statistic
that you just showed,

about 65% of people came...

said no one helped them
when they came forward,

it's because the public,

A, still doesn't wanna
talk about domestic violence.

And B, doesn't really know
what to do

if someone they care about,

or know, or work with,
um, comes forward.

And that's something
that we need to try and work

to normalize the conversation,
right?

People feel so much
shame and stigma.

But if we can bring it out
into the open,

that will help dissipate that.

There's shame and stigma,
and also the perception
from some that,

"Well, these are
family matters.
I don't wanna pry."

-[Jane] Mmm-hmm.
-If you suspect that
someone is suffering,

or is a victim
of domestic abuse,

what can you do to help them?

[Jane] You can...
These are people often
who are very isolated.

Their abuser has told them,
"No one cares about you.

Only I care about you."

They often separated them
from friends, from family.

They can-- It's all about
power and control.

And that's really what
domestic violence is about.

So, even just saying,
"How are you?

Are you okay?"

Just indicating that
you're there for them...

"Something seems off,"

they may not bite right away,

but I have heard
stories after story,

of people who say,

that just knowing
someone cared,

that they really may not be
as alone as they thought,

made a huge difference.

Often the ones who know,
are the children.

-[Jane] Correct.
-Because they're in the home.

And of course,
this is not a young
child's responsibility,

but if you are an adult child,

that knows what's
happening in your home,

is there a way to handle,

and to help your parent?

You can talk to your parent,

you know, it's,
here's the sad thing.

We can do everything
as a bystander that we want,

and know how to do,

but we can't make someone
take the next step, right?

And often, the next
step is finding help,

so that they can
create a safety plan,

because you don't,
just leaving,

is not necessarily the best

-or the safest thing.
-Well, often when they leave,

-they have nowhere to go.
-[Jane] Yes.

You know, it's easy
for us to sit back

and go, "Why don't
you just leave?"

It's not like that.

-[Jane] No.
-When I worked in
the battered women's center,

in Atlanta as a volunteer,

women would have, one,

-some of them
would have no job.
-[Jane] Correct.

-Three or four children.
-[Jane] Mm-hmm.

That's their only
financial support.

And what are they gonna do?

Leave and go where?

When all
the shelters are full?

[Mara] I was gonna say that,
I hate when people ask
that question,

-like, why don't
you just leave?
-[Nancy] It's not that easy.

Well, turn it around.
Why are you abusing
this person?

-[chuckles] I mean,
that's really the question.
-[Nancy] Exactly.

So, yes.

And there's lot of reasons
that people don't leave.

People forget that
they started

a relationship for a reason.

There's often love
somewhere in there.

There's fear.

They don't have
the financial wherewithal

to go somewhere else.

They don't have
anywhere to go,

maybe they don't
wanna live in a shelter.

There's stigma about that.

-There's so many--
-How it's gonna affect
their children.

Correct, and the children,
to your point,

the children always know.

People think that
a lot of times,

parents, and they're
trying so hard,

but they stay together,

or they try and hide it
from the kids.

But the kids always know,

and that is a population of,

sort of, overlooked victims,

who can be really impacted,
of course,

later in their lives
as adults.

-Would you...you go, Derrick.
-[Derrick] Jane,

I just recently,
and you were there as well,
we had the opportunity

to listen to Gabby Petito's
parents speak,

and they just had new
legislation passed in Utah,

specifically,
how police interact

with potential domestic
violence victims.

I know as a police officer,

you respond there,
you pull 'em aside,
you separate them,

you just provided so much
information succinctly.

Do you think there's
an opportunity

for better training
for police officers,

to provide those
different avenues

that you just laid out,

so that when they
pull 'em aside,

maybe they're not ready yet,

but police officers can
provide that information,

so that if they
wanna act later,

-they have
those opportunities.
-For sure.

[Nancy] Derrick's right,
they actually said

-Gabby was the attacker.
-[Derrick] Yeah.

-[Derrick] Yeah.
-Gabby Petito, now dead?

At the hands of her attacker?

They blamed her.

[Jane] Well, and that often,
by the way,

is a tactic that
perpetrators use,

-I mean, you probably know
that from your policing.
-[Derrick] Oh, yeah.

Is that they'll
call the police first.

And that way,
they say they're the victim.

And it's, I mean, it's,
it's all about power
and control.

Someone once said, you know,

perpetrators are, are,

stymied only by their
imagination, right?

Whatever they can come up with

is a way that they can
exert their power

and control over somebody.

But I have to imagine
that the hope

for many of these women
who stay, mostly women,

is that things will change.

-Mm. True.
-So that they can keep
their family together.

Is it possible
for an abuser to change,
if they want help?

Is there any
kind of rehabilitation
that's possible?

There are resources,

though not as many
as we'd like,

there are resources for people

who realize that they
are perpetrating abuse

and they want to get help.

But you just said something
really important.

They have to want to.

It's also super
important for men,

'cause we're gonna make
a generalization here,

and say that, by and large,

it's women who are being
perpetrated against by men,

um, that men have to hold each
other accountable as well.

I wanna say something,
because this is,

something really,

that, it means a lot to me,

and I wanna say directly
into the camera on this one.

Victims of domestic
violence out there,

from my experience,

they don't change.

There's only escalation.

It starts off when
I respond there,

to it's just a hit,
it's a smack,

then it's a broken rib.

And before you know it,
it gets really bad.

I've been in a situation
where it started off
as a simple assault.

I responded a year later,

and the individual actually
killed this woman.

So what I would tell you is,

if they've done it before,
they'll do it again.

I don't,
I'm not saying it's easy,

but do what you can
to get out of that situation.

Because more than likely,
they will not change.

And Derrick, by the time
I would get ahold

of domestic violence cases,

it was a felony.

-Typically at assault
or murder.
-[Derrick] Yeah.

-[Jane] Right.
-[Derrick] Yeah.

Yeah, there's,
and there's so many

different ways
of abusing somebody.

So there's physical violence,

of course, and that's what
everyone thinks about.

There's financial abuse.

Right? Controlling the money.

Even if you're the one that
makes the money, right?

Uh, verbal abuse.

Telling somebody, you know,

if someone tells you,
for a long time,

that you are worthless,
and stupid,

and no one cares about you,

and only I care about you,

you believe that.

I mean, that's where you,
you know,

that's how this
grooming works.

The psychology behind this,
Jane Randel,

thank you, not only
for being here,

but for everything
you do, every day.

-Yep.
-To help victims
of domestic abuse.

To learn more about
how you can find help,

support survivors,
and contribute,

go to NoExcuseForAbuse.com.

Every week, Crimefeedbrings
you the biggest crime stories

from across our great nation.

Some ripped from headlines.

Some you may never
have heard of.

For Mara, Derrick, and myself,

we'll see you next week.

Goodnight, friend.

[outro music playing]