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[narrator] A bombshell report
about the University of Idaho
murders.
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00:00:09,517 --> 00:00:11,275
What survivors may have heard
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00:00:11,310 --> 00:00:15,034
as Bryan Kohberger allegedly
murdered four of their friends
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00:00:15,068 --> 00:00:17,896
just feet away from them,
in the middle of the night.
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00:00:17,931 --> 00:00:21,482
A big question:
Where is the murder weapon?
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00:00:21,517 --> 00:00:24,344
And the twisted murder case
of Crystal Rogers.
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Her ex-boyfriend
accused of the killing.
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His brother failed
a lie-detector test.
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And now the cops wanna know,
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is any of it
tied to another killing,
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00:00:33,758 --> 00:00:35,413
Crystal's father?
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00:00:35,448 --> 00:00:37,137
Mara S. Campo,
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Derrick Levasseur,
and Nancy Grace.
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00:00:39,931 --> 00:00:42,172
This week onCrimefeed.
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It's the case that shocked
the nation in November.
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A gruesome quadruple homicide
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that shattered
a small town in Idaho.
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The trial of Bryan Kohberger
was set to start this month,
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but now developments.
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Private investigator
Derrick Levasseur
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and investigative journalist
Mara S. Campo
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here as always.
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Mara, what's the latest?
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Well, Nancy,
the one year anniversary
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of this gruesome crime
is approaching.
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And the trial for the suspect
charged with killing
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four young students
will soon be underway.
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Here's that story.
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On a frigid morning
in November, 2022,
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the small, quiet town
of Moscow, Idaho,
was devastated
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after police found
the dead bodies
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of four Idaho University
students
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in a home they rented
just off campus.
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Best friends,
Kaylee Goncalves
and Madison Mogen,
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both 21, were found
in the third floor bedroom.
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Xana Kernodle
and her boyfriend
Ethan Chapin, both 20,
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were discovered
on the second floor.
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All four victims
were brutally stabbed
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multiple times
with a large knife.
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After searching the home,
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police were unable to find
the murder weapon.
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But, they did discover
something interesting,
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a knife sheath
lying on the bed
next to Madison's body.
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Weeks went by
without any answers.
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But after
a painstaking search,
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police finally zeroed in
on a white Hyundai Elantra
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at nearby
Washington State University.
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The owner of the vehicle?
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Twenty-eight-year-old
Ph.D. student,
Bryan Kohberger.
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And when Kohberger's
phone records
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show him near the crime scene,
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the case finally heats up,
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and the mysterious
knife sheath
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becomes a critical
piece of evidence.
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DNA found on the sheath
was tested against
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DNA found
in Kohberger's trash.
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The results were a match.
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And on December 30th, 2022,
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Kohberger was arrested
and charged for the murder
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of Kaylee, Madison,
Xana, and Ethan,
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four innocent, young students,
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whose lives
were tragically stolen.
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You know, Mara,
I believe, very firmly,
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that even without
the DNA match,
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there would be
an incredible amount
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of circumstantial evidence.
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I mean, can we just
get real for one moment?
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When police moved in
on Kohberger's family home
in the Poconos...
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Now remember, Kohberger come
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thousands of miles
across the country
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in his Elantra
with his father.
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He gets there
for Thanksgiving break.
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When the cops
finally arrest him,
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wait for it,
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he's standing in the kitchen
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in his underwear and a shirt
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with plastic gloves on,
separating the trash
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and putting it
in individual trash bags.
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Who on a jury
is not gonna say,
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"He's obviously
hiding evidence!"
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Well, and they had
also seen him
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putting his family's trash
into some of the neighbor's
trash cans.
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So, there are things like that
that happened in Pennsylvania.
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00:03:41,482 --> 00:03:43,793
But in my opinion,
some of the most compelling
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-circumstantial evidence,
if you will...
-[Nancy] Oh, yeah.
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...is the phone records
and the movements of the car.
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So, what investigators
were able to do
is very clever.
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They paired
the movements of the car
with the phone records.
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And what they found
is that the phone
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left his home around 2:45 am
the morning of the murders.
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It was then off,
or on airplane mode,
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between 3:00 am and 5:00 am,
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which is when
the murders took place.
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Then return back to his home,
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and then back
to the scene of the crime
the following morning.
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-That would be
very hard to explain.
-You know what's interesting,
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though, with that
is the fact that,
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okay, he turned his phone off.
People turn their phones off
once in a while.
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But the problem is,
he hadn't done that
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weeks or months prior to that.
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But, I wanna go back
to the DNA real quick,
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because although
I agree with you,
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I don't know if we need it,
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the defense is attacking
the genetic genealogy.
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But, it was obtained legally.
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They got it from the trash,
that's abandoned property.
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But let's not forget that
after Kohberger was arrested,
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he was brought in,
they took a direct DNA sample,
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and it matched the sheath.
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So, I don't understand
why they're going after
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-the genetic genealogy
when they have a direct match.
-I'll tell you why, Derrick.
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-They have to.
-Because they have to.
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-[Derrick] They have to.
Yeah, they have to.
-Yes, yes.
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And as to you,
you're preaching to the choir.
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I am all about
the digital footprint
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Kohberger left behind.
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And I went to Idaho,
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and I did this at night,
in the wee hours
of the night, yes,
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and drove that
very circuitous route.
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From the crime scene
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00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,034
all the way back to his home,
his apartment in Pullman.
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Now you know,
he could've driven
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about nine minutes
and gotten home.
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But that night,
the night of the murders,
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he drove the circuitous route.
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It took him about an hour
to get home.
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It was on a two-lane,
no lights, no people, nothing.
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00:05:18,620 --> 00:05:21,241
Um, another thing
on this DNA attack,
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as Derrick Levasseur
correctly stated,
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they're attacking it because
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they've got to attack it.
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-Right.
-It's, um, one in,
I believe, eight,
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uh, five octillion,
or three octillion a match.
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Did you know that
that's more people
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than have ever lived
on the planet Earth so far?
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That's how damning
that DNA match is
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on the, uh,
snap on that sheath.
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Yeah, I've seen this
in my cases too,
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where the evidence is so good,
the defense has to go after
how it was obtained.
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-But again, they're going
after evidence...
-[Nancy] Smart.
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00:05:53,448 --> 00:05:54,827
...that doesn't
necessarily matter.
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-Again, he was brought in,
they got the DNA.
-[Nancy] Oh, yes.
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00:05:57,206 --> 00:05:59,724
It's a direct match.
It's similar to, uh,
Rex Heuermann.
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00:05:59,758 --> 00:06:01,344
-Right? Where they got
the pizza crust.
-Mmm-hmm.
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00:06:01,379 --> 00:06:03,482
-That was
the preliminary match--
-The dad's DNA.
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-But they got the dad's DNA
in this case...
-Mmm-hmm.
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...from the trash can,
which was illegally--
which was legally obtained,
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because as you know,
it's abandoned property.
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The police have the right
to seize that property.
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-They test it. That's how
they get the familial match.
-[Nancy] Mmm-hmm.
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They arrest Kohberger,
they bring him in.
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Now they have a direct match
from Kohberger,
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Bryan Kohberger, not the dad,
to the sheath itself.
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It's game over.
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-Now, they just got to
explain it that simply.
-It's game over.
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-Maybe you guys should make
the opening statements.
-[Derrick] Yeah.
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Well, but I think
some of the other evidence
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that's very compelling,
and also very relatable to,
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you know, a layperson
who would be on the jury,
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is the eyewitness testimony
from the roommate
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who was, uh, was unharmed,
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-who was awake at the time.
-[Nancy] Uh, Dylan Mortensen.
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She said that she opened
her door
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after she had heard
a number of noises
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throughout the time
of the murders.
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-And she saw the person,
presumed to be the killer...
-[Derrick] Hmm.
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...walk directly past her.
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She was able to provide
a partial description
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because she said
he was wearing a COVID mask.
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But that lines up.
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And then there's also
a lot of evidence
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that suggest, um, that he was
stalking these girls,
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and he was in the area
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-prior to the murders
having taken place.
-[Nancy] Oh!
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-And that's gonna be
very difficult to explain.
-Yes! Twelve times,
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-Mara. He has been driving...
-[Mara] Twelve times
in that area.
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-...by their home.
-[Derrick] Mmm-hmm.
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Oh, speaking of driving,
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so glad you said that.
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I believe his vehicle
is a 2015 Elantra.
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And in 2011,
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is when Elantras began
to have navigation systems.
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Which means, and we saw this
in Alex Murdaugh.
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I hate to keep using him
and Scott Peterson
as an example,
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but frankly, they're like
the poster children for cases,
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uh, to prove legal points.
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But in Murdaugh, remember,
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the nav system
doesn't just show
where you've been,
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or how long you were there,
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it shows when you
turn you car on,
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when you turn the ignition,
when you let the windows up,
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when you take off,
where you go, when you stop,
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when you put it in park.
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And that's very valuable
in this case,
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all that nav system data.
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00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,620
And then also paired
with the surveillance video
from the neighborhood
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00:08:00,655 --> 00:08:02,068
that shows
on the night of the murder
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00:08:02,103 --> 00:08:03,896
at the time that the murders
were taking place,
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00:08:03,931 --> 00:08:06,896
this same car was circling
the house three times.
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00:08:06,931 --> 00:08:08,482
The fourth time around,
it stops.
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00:08:08,517 --> 00:08:11,068
And then it's seen
speeding away from
the crime scene
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after the time that
the murders were committed.
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00:08:13,103 --> 00:08:15,275
And then, if we're going back
to the information
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00:08:15,310 --> 00:08:17,724
that suggests there was motive
related to stalking,
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00:08:17,758 --> 00:08:21,551
we have, as you mentioned,
him in the area 12 times
before. Why?
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00:08:21,586 --> 00:08:23,551
He was reportedly at the place
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where two
of the victims worked.
It was a restaurant.
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00:08:25,724 --> 00:08:27,517
He had been there
a couple times before.
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00:08:27,551 --> 00:08:29,827
He was reportedly
following the victims,
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00:08:29,862 --> 00:08:31,275
three of them on social media,
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00:08:31,310 --> 00:08:33,413
even though they were not
following him back.
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-That's gonna be
very difficult to explain.
-[Nancy] Hey,
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00:08:35,688 --> 00:08:37,827
he's right.
Well, you're both right.
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00:08:37,861 --> 00:08:40,241
But what you said is,
with the DNA evidence,
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00:08:40,275 --> 00:08:43,965
they used the short tandem
repeat analysis,
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00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,206
uh, to get this DNA match.
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00:08:46,241 --> 00:08:49,241
That's practically
unassailable in court.
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00:08:49,275 --> 00:08:51,862
So, what they're gonna
have to do is just what
you said, Derrick,
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00:08:51,896 --> 00:08:55,103
they're gonna attack
how it was obtained.
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00:08:55,137 --> 00:08:57,068
I've been thinking about,
"How can the state
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00:08:57,103 --> 00:09:00,379
fight back and defeat that
before it even comes up?"
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00:09:00,413 --> 00:09:02,344
I thought of something.
Bodycam.
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00:09:02,379 --> 00:09:04,310
All the cops going in there,
224
00:09:04,344 --> 00:09:07,241
well hopefully not a lot
to not contaminate the scene,
225
00:09:07,275 --> 00:09:09,517
but hopefully they were
wearing their bodycams,
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00:09:09,551 --> 00:09:12,137
so it shows no one
is tampering with evidence,
227
00:09:12,172 --> 00:09:14,241
no one is destroying
the crime scene.
228
00:09:14,275 --> 00:09:16,689
You know,
I'm kind of angry right now,
and I'll tell you why.
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00:09:16,724 --> 00:09:17,896
On top of everything else,
230
00:09:17,931 --> 00:09:19,862
but just recently
a report came out
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00:09:19,896 --> 00:09:21,620
that the two
surviving roommates
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00:09:21,655 --> 00:09:23,827
that were home that night,
that were not killed,
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00:09:23,862 --> 00:09:26,448
it would be Dylan Mortensen
and Bethany Funke,
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00:09:26,482 --> 00:09:29,620
were texting
during the killings.
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00:09:29,655 --> 00:09:33,379
And the father
of one of the victims,
Mr. Goncalves,
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00:09:33,413 --> 00:09:35,551
has come out and said,
"That's absolutely not true."
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00:09:35,586 --> 00:09:37,068
What is wrong with people?
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00:09:37,103 --> 00:09:39,793
Why are they
putting falsehoods out there
239
00:09:39,827 --> 00:09:41,758
that just hurt the
victim's families?
240
00:09:41,793 --> 00:09:43,793
Yeah, and we're also talking,
I mean these are
college students
241
00:09:43,827 --> 00:09:45,344
they're in their twenties.
242
00:09:45,379 --> 00:09:47,275
You know, so... so the idea
that they would be up late
and texting and
243
00:09:47,310 --> 00:09:50,206
not necessarily picking up on,
you know, clues that
something was wrong
244
00:09:50,241 --> 00:09:53,517
I mean attacking those
girls after what they've
been through is just awful.
245
00:09:53,551 --> 00:09:56,931
One final thing. DNA is huge.
I think that's one selling
point in this case.
246
00:09:56,965 --> 00:10:00,241
But also Kohberger you talked
about the vehicle,
the Elantra,
247
00:10:00,275 --> 00:10:03,310
police officers, other
departments have him in the
car, on body cam,
248
00:10:03,344 --> 00:10:05,482
driving that vehicle can't say
he doesn't drive it
249
00:10:05,517 --> 00:10:09,413
and secondly his... his
cellphone coordinates matched
the location of that vehicle
250
00:10:09,448 --> 00:10:10,517
that entire night.
251
00:10:10,551 --> 00:10:12,448
So he can't say,
"Hey, I wasn't in
the car there."
252
00:10:12,482 --> 00:10:15,413
They had his GPS coordinates
from his cellphone
following him
253
00:10:15,448 --> 00:10:18,206
-in the same direction
of the car.
-And the alibi, I like to take
254
00:10:18,241 --> 00:10:20,448
long drives at night
alone, okay.
255
00:10:20,482 --> 00:10:22,034
-Yeah.
-Guys, when we come back,
256
00:10:22,068 --> 00:10:24,172
a former FBI agent gives us
257
00:10:24,206 --> 00:10:29,103
the analysis and
a potential motive
in the Kohberger case.
258
00:10:29,137 --> 00:10:33,172
And then the Kentucky murder
case of Crystal Rogers.
259
00:10:33,206 --> 00:10:38,034
A lot of questions being asked
about her boyfriend's family
260
00:10:38,068 --> 00:10:41,724
and the murder of not
only Crystal but of her
father too.
261
00:10:47,827 --> 00:10:49,310
Welcome back to, Crimefeed.
262
00:10:49,344 --> 00:10:51,793
Big question,
if Bryan Kohberger
263
00:10:51,827 --> 00:10:55,965
is in fact the Moscow Idaho
killer, why did he do it?
264
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,068
And where is the
murder weapon?
265
00:10:58,103 --> 00:11:01,551
The court has entered
a plea of not guilty for him.
266
00:11:01,586 --> 00:11:03,793
He insists he is innocent.
267
00:11:03,827 --> 00:11:06,724
Joining us now,
Jennifer Coffindaffer,
268
00:11:06,758 --> 00:11:09,000
former FBI special agent.
269
00:11:09,034 --> 00:11:10,862
Jennifer, thank you
for being with us.
270
00:11:10,896 --> 00:11:14,379
And of course as you
and I have discussed,
many many times, Jennifer,
271
00:11:14,413 --> 00:11:19,034
the state does not need
to prove a motive that is
not the state's burden.
272
00:11:19,068 --> 00:11:20,689
To get inside Kohberger's head
273
00:11:20,724 --> 00:11:22,206
and figure out why?
274
00:11:22,241 --> 00:11:24,172
But, practically
speaking, Jennifer
275
00:11:24,206 --> 00:11:26,275
the jury will want
to hear a motive.
276
00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:29,517
The jury definitely
wants to hear a motive,
they want to understand
277
00:11:29,551 --> 00:11:31,689
why a graduate student,
278
00:11:31,724 --> 00:11:37,068
who was studying criminology,
would murder four individuals
out of the blue
279
00:11:37,103 --> 00:11:38,551
with no criminal history.
280
00:11:38,586 --> 00:11:41,241
That's something that's
hard to really compute.
281
00:11:41,275 --> 00:11:43,586
And there's a reason
for it, Nancy.
282
00:11:43,620 --> 00:11:47,482
I think if you look
at the choice of victims,
which I believe were
283
00:11:47,517 --> 00:11:50,689
pointed at Maddie Mogen and
Kaylee Goncalves.
284
00:11:50,724 --> 00:11:53,862
That was the reason,
his reason was simply
285
00:11:53,896 --> 00:11:56,103
an incel type theory.
286
00:11:56,137 --> 00:11:57,793
In terms of him being hurt
287
00:11:57,827 --> 00:12:00,310
all these years, rejected all
of these years.
288
00:12:00,344 --> 00:12:01,758
-Okay, wait just a minute.
-Mmm-hmm.
289
00:12:01,793 --> 00:12:04,344
He's being hurt?
How about he's being creepy?
290
00:12:04,379 --> 00:12:08,379
You know, he got
kicked out of at least
one bar slash restaurant.
291
00:12:08,413 --> 00:12:09,758
Because he would
approach women...
292
00:12:09,793 --> 00:12:11,241
Did you know this, Mara
listen to this
293
00:12:11,275 --> 00:12:13,103
if a guy comes up to and says,
294
00:12:13,137 --> 00:12:14,517
"Hey, what's your
home address?"
295
00:12:14,551 --> 00:12:17,931
I would run for the hills
as if I'd seen a monster.
296
00:12:17,965 --> 00:12:22,379
And just so mini, um
awkward, not just awkward
297
00:12:22,413 --> 00:12:25,827
but scary moments that
Kohberger would
have with women.
298
00:12:25,862 --> 00:12:28,862
He got into arguments
with his coworkers,
299
00:12:28,896 --> 00:12:31,344
he also reportedly
300
00:12:31,379 --> 00:12:33,724
uh, with a female
coworker got,
301
00:12:33,758 --> 00:12:36,379
installed her Wi-Fi
in her home,
302
00:12:36,413 --> 00:12:40,000
so, he could look at
her, you know
surveillance cameras.
303
00:12:40,034 --> 00:12:44,413
They went in a
rearranged furniture,
so she would come to him,
304
00:12:44,448 --> 00:12:47,482
and ask for help with
the Wi-Fi system.
305
00:12:47,517 --> 00:12:51,517
Guy, you don't think
that's an incel for sure?
306
00:12:51,551 --> 00:12:54,172
Yeah, I mean it absolutely
does speak to that right?
307
00:12:54,206 --> 00:12:57,931
I mean, the awkwardness,
the social unsurety of
308
00:12:57,965 --> 00:13:01,034
how to act around other
individuals,
particularly, women.
309
00:13:01,068 --> 00:13:03,965
It just spoke to really,
I think what
drove him to this.
310
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,241
Jennifer, I want to ask
you a question because I know
you've worked cases before.
311
00:13:07,275 --> 00:13:09,827
Sometimes yeah, it could be
a motive involving,
not feeling
312
00:13:09,862 --> 00:13:11,965
responded to,
not feeling seen.
313
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,137
But, also there is an
element especially
with Kohberger
314
00:13:14,172 --> 00:13:17,413
where he is a PhD student
and he thinks he's smarter
than everyone.
315
00:13:17,448 --> 00:13:19,862
He's not gonna get into
this thinking,
"I'm gonna get caught."
316
00:13:19,896 --> 00:13:22,068
He's thinking, "I'm smarter
than the police."
317
00:13:22,103 --> 00:13:24,586
"I'm gonna pull this off.
I've watched these
things before."
318
00:13:24,620 --> 00:13:27,206
"I've studied it. I know
where the mistakes were made."
319
00:13:27,241 --> 00:13:29,517
"I can do better, I'm gonna
get away with this."
320
00:13:29,551 --> 00:13:31,896
Do you think, that could be
an element of it too?
Where he just wants to see,
321
00:13:31,931 --> 00:13:33,275
how smart he really is?
322
00:13:33,310 --> 00:13:35,724
I definitely think
that factored into it.
323
00:13:35,758 --> 00:13:40,758
And I think really,
but for the knife sheath
and that DNA
324
00:13:40,793 --> 00:13:44,724
I don't know if we'd
be sitting here with Bryan
Kohberger charged.
325
00:13:44,758 --> 00:13:48,275
[Nancy]
You know, I think incel,
the theory of an incel
326
00:13:48,310 --> 00:13:51,655
is a good one, I don't know
if I would put throw that
to a jury.
327
00:13:51,689 --> 00:13:54,275
Because, I don't know if
we have enough to show
328
00:13:54,310 --> 00:13:56,068
that he is truly an incel.
329
00:13:56,103 --> 00:14:00,344
But my understanding
of an incel is not that
you're awkward around women.
330
00:14:00,379 --> 00:14:03,068
No offence, Derrick.
But a lot of guys are they're
not incels.
331
00:14:03,655 --> 00:14:05,586
But hatred, hatred,
332
00:14:05,620 --> 00:14:07,413
because they feel rejected,
333
00:14:07,448 --> 00:14:11,517
uh, they feel that they're
as you said,
they're invisible.
334
00:14:11,551 --> 00:14:14,103
And they develop not just
an awkward, um
335
00:14:14,931 --> 00:14:16,724
attitude or demeanor,
336
00:14:16,758 --> 00:14:19,448
they actually
hate women, guys.
337
00:14:19,482 --> 00:14:21,551
Take a listen to,
338
00:14:21,586 --> 00:14:24,931
a friend, an acquaintance,
of Kohberger's.
339
00:14:26,344 --> 00:14:29,724
He did seem pretty,
kind of just socially awkward.
340
00:14:29,758 --> 00:14:33,241
Um, I mean, kind of hard
to carry a conversation with.
341
00:14:33,275 --> 00:14:35,103
If I remember correctly
342
00:14:35,137 --> 00:14:38,068
um, but besides that he
just mainly just stood
to the side,
343
00:14:38,103 --> 00:14:39,655
and was really observant.
344
00:14:39,689 --> 00:14:41,482
And... And so much so that
345
00:14:41,517 --> 00:14:45,793
based on that one small
interaction he... you know,
knew exactly knew who I was
346
00:14:45,827 --> 00:14:49,482
maybe a month or so later,
when I saw him on that hike.
347
00:14:49,517 --> 00:14:51,689
My wife describes it as
a death stare.
348
00:14:51,724 --> 00:14:53,275
And like,
it kind of like is...
349
00:14:54,517 --> 00:14:56,758
Like you know, you
make eye contact with people
350
00:14:56,793 --> 00:14:59,379
but you're not like,
constantly and just
staring at them.
351
00:14:59,413 --> 00:15:01,793
That's... he would be like
constantly like
staring at me.
352
00:15:01,827 --> 00:15:06,413
Like, he's trying to
like analyze me. That was
a feeling I would get...
353
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:12,862
Jennifer, I spoke to the
next door neighbor
of Bryan Kohberger.
354
00:15:12,896 --> 00:15:18,448
At the-- his Pullman apartment
and the neighbor said that
he tried to befriend Kohberger
355
00:15:18,482 --> 00:15:22,793
and that when Kohberger's Dad,
moved him there
from the Poconos.
356
00:15:22,827 --> 00:15:27,034
The Dad actually came over
and said, "Hey, could
you be friends with my son?"
357
00:15:27,068 --> 00:15:28,655
He... he doesn't have
a lot of friends.
358
00:15:28,689 --> 00:15:31,862
You know, like arranging
a play date with a group,
for grown men.
359
00:15:31,896 --> 00:15:36,000
But, the neighbor said,
he tried to relate
to Kohberger
360
00:15:36,034 --> 00:15:40,931
but his wife said, "Do not
bring him back
to this apartment."
361
00:15:40,965 --> 00:15:44,827
She had a sixth sense,
there was just something way
off with Kohberger.
362
00:15:44,862 --> 00:15:46,827
Mmm-hmm. And so many
people I think
363
00:15:46,862 --> 00:15:49,000
need to follow those
senses right?
364
00:15:49,034 --> 00:15:51,344
Think of all the people
who would be victimized
365
00:15:51,379 --> 00:15:53,793
um, but for them following
their senses.
366
00:15:53,827 --> 00:15:55,827
And she certainly grabbed
ahold of that.
367
00:15:55,862 --> 00:15:57,551
Now, I was going to say, Nancy
368
00:15:57,586 --> 00:16:00,724
when you discussed maybe the
incel couldn't be
strong enough
369
00:16:00,758 --> 00:16:02,689
to bring forth to a jury.
370
00:16:02,724 --> 00:16:06,103
I just look at the state
those victims,
371
00:16:06,137 --> 00:16:10,172
are left in, and if that
doesn't show sheer hate,
372
00:16:10,206 --> 00:16:11,793
and despise.
373
00:16:11,827 --> 00:16:15,068
But, I'm curious your
theory was that he was there
for two of the victims
374
00:16:15,103 --> 00:16:16,689
and then the other two
were unintended victims.
375
00:16:16,724 --> 00:16:20,448
But then there were two
roommates who were unharmed.
Why do you think that is?
376
00:16:20,482 --> 00:16:23,793
Well, first off I'm gonna
dial down, I really think
377
00:16:23,827 --> 00:16:26,689
he... his intended victim
was Maddie Mogen.
378
00:16:26,724 --> 00:16:30,172
And I say that because
Kaylee Goncalves had
already left.
379
00:16:30,206 --> 00:16:33,931
She was actually returning
with a brand new vehicle
that nobody had seen.
380
00:16:33,965 --> 00:16:35,862
So, I don't think he would
have been familiar.
381
00:16:35,896 --> 00:16:38,482
I also think when he went up
to that room
382
00:16:38,517 --> 00:16:40,241
and those two girls
were in the bed,
383
00:16:40,275 --> 00:16:42,379
no one was more surprised
than him.
384
00:16:42,413 --> 00:16:43,896
He had to kill
both of them.
385
00:16:43,931 --> 00:16:45,655
[Nancy] But, the thing is,
he could've left
right then.
386
00:16:45,689 --> 00:16:47,448
I'm not sure
that he knew
387
00:16:47,482 --> 00:16:49,965
that the survivors
Dylan Mortensen
388
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,275
and Bethany Funke
were even there-- even there.
389
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:54,965
But, one thing about
bringing in incel
as a motive,
390
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,655
could be a legal problem
with that.
391
00:16:56,689 --> 00:16:59,068
If you bring
other bad acts in
392
00:16:59,103 --> 00:17:01,172
that are not approved
as a similar transaction,
393
00:17:01,206 --> 00:17:02,344
that's grounds
for a reversal.
394
00:17:02,379 --> 00:17:04,482
That's the last thing
that judge needs.
395
00:17:04,517 --> 00:17:06,550
Jennifer Coffindaffer,
thank you.
396
00:17:06,586 --> 00:17:09,896
Guys, more on
the Idaho killings
when we come back.
397
00:17:09,931 --> 00:17:13,896
And then,
the Kentucky murder case
of Crystal Rogers.
398
00:17:13,931 --> 00:17:17,931
Lot of questions being asked
about her boyfriend's family,
399
00:17:17,964 --> 00:17:21,103
in the murder of Crystal
and her own father.
400
00:17:27,655 --> 00:17:29,310
Welcome back
to Crimefeed.
401
00:17:29,344 --> 00:17:32,103
The trial of
Bryan Kohberger,
402
00:17:32,137 --> 00:17:34,620
what's the latest?
Why the hold up?
403
00:17:34,655 --> 00:17:37,068
And what do we know
about the State's evidence?
404
00:17:37,103 --> 00:17:41,793
I am completely obsessed
by a new discovery.
405
00:17:41,827 --> 00:17:44,379
Uh, the State
has demanded information
406
00:17:44,413 --> 00:17:49,068
from Amazon,
from Apple Pay,
from PayPal,
407
00:17:49,103 --> 00:17:52,448
but they don't wanna know
just what did Kohberger buy.
408
00:17:52,482 --> 00:17:56,241
They want every single on
of his...
[mimics clicking] clicks.
409
00:17:56,275 --> 00:17:58,724
-[Derrick] Mmm-hmm.
-And I'll tell you why I think
they're doing it.
410
00:17:58,758 --> 00:18:00,241
Someone said, um,
411
00:18:00,275 --> 00:18:02,965
"Your clicks reveal
your heart, your soul
and your thoughts."
412
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,344
And they really do.
413
00:18:04,379 --> 00:18:06,620
I'm not gonna ask you
right here, pitch on the spot,
414
00:18:06,655 --> 00:18:08,275
"What's the last thing
you looked up?"
415
00:18:08,310 --> 00:18:09,793
Or what you ordered.
416
00:18:09,827 --> 00:18:13,689
But, think about Kohberger
ordering that Ka-Bar knife,
417
00:18:13,724 --> 00:18:16,172
fixed blade,
and the sheath.
418
00:18:16,206 --> 00:18:19,275
You know that sheath was one--
uh, the type that
419
00:18:19,793 --> 00:18:20,965
Marines use,
420
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,172
and they put it
on their belt loops
421
00:18:23,206 --> 00:18:25,241
so it doesn't come off
in battle.
422
00:18:25,275 --> 00:18:27,620
Yet, he didn't have it
attached
423
00:18:27,655 --> 00:18:29,034
and it was left behind.
424
00:18:29,068 --> 00:18:30,655
According to prosecutors,
and of course,
425
00:18:30,689 --> 00:18:32,310
we know he's pled
"not guilty."
426
00:18:32,344 --> 00:18:33,862
But, he bought the knife
427
00:18:33,896 --> 00:18:36,034
and the sh-- ooh,
that's a good picture,
Charles.
428
00:18:36,068 --> 00:18:38,482
He bought the knife
and the sheath
at the same time
429
00:18:38,517 --> 00:18:41,275
on Amazon eight--
oh, and there's the Elantra.
430
00:18:41,310 --> 00:18:45,137
Eight, wait,
no, seven months
before the murders.
431
00:18:45,172 --> 00:18:47,413
Talk about
pre-meditation.
432
00:18:47,448 --> 00:18:49,896
Derrick Levasseur,
seven months.
433
00:18:49,931 --> 00:18:51,827
Yeah, I agree,
the Ka-Bar's gonna be huge.
434
00:18:51,862 --> 00:18:54,310
But, I also think they have
over 51 terabytes of data
435
00:18:54,344 --> 00:18:55,379
that they haven't
released yet.
436
00:18:55,413 --> 00:18:57,137
I think the Ka-Bar,
the Amazon purchase
437
00:18:57,172 --> 00:19:00,310
is just the top of the--
the top of the evidence
that they have there.
438
00:19:00,344 --> 00:19:01,862
But, I think when you get
really into it,
439
00:19:01,896 --> 00:19:03,241
you're gonna have
a lot of pre-meditation
440
00:19:03,275 --> 00:19:05,448
that may be spelled out
right in the digital data.
441
00:19:05,482 --> 00:19:08,275
What else was he looking up,
what other cases
was he looking up,
442
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:10,689
what type of--
what type of planning
was he doing
443
00:19:10,724 --> 00:19:13,344
as far as the geography
surrounding that neighborhood?
444
00:19:13,379 --> 00:19:15,310
I think-- again, when we get--
really get into it,
445
00:19:15,344 --> 00:19:17,896
I think that the Ka-Bar
is gonna be the smoking gun
446
00:19:17,931 --> 00:19:19,172
but I think there's gonna be
a lot more to it.
447
00:19:19,206 --> 00:19:20,965
Well, when you see
the picture of the sheath
448
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,275
and you see the picture
of the type of knife
that was used,
449
00:19:23,310 --> 00:19:26,275
it really drives home
how brutal
these killings were.
450
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:28,482
I mean, this was
a hunting knife.
451
00:19:28,517 --> 00:19:29,827
And I--
I've a question, Nancy.
452
00:19:29,862 --> 00:19:31,758
There's something
that really has confounded me
453
00:19:31,793 --> 00:19:34,586
and I-- for both of you,
I wonder if you have any--
any thoughts on this.
454
00:19:34,620 --> 00:19:37,862
You know,
there were no reports
of screaming that night.
455
00:19:37,896 --> 00:19:39,448
But, you do have the autopsy
showing
456
00:19:39,482 --> 00:19:41,965
that at least one of
the victims had
defensive wounds.
457
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,862
You also have one of
the surviving roommates
458
00:19:43,896 --> 00:19:46,517
saying that she believes
she heard a conversation
taking place
459
00:19:46,551 --> 00:19:48,655
between the presumed killer
and one of the victims.
460
00:19:48,689 --> 00:19:51,586
So, why do you think
that-that nobody
was screaming for help?
461
00:19:51,620 --> 00:19:54,000
Was he convincing them
that perhaps
they knew each other?
462
00:19:54,034 --> 00:19:55,655
Was he trying
to calm them?
463
00:19:55,689 --> 00:19:57,206
What, perhaps,
was taking place
464
00:19:57,241 --> 00:20:00,034
that nobody called out
for help for the--
from the other roommates?
465
00:20:00,068 --> 00:20:03,551
Now, we have heard
that there are
surveillance video, uh,
466
00:20:03,586 --> 00:20:06,724
and I guess
they're digging up
the theory
467
00:20:06,758 --> 00:20:10,172
that there was a loud thump
and there was a cry.
468
00:20:10,206 --> 00:20:13,862
But, nothing really alerted
the other two roommates.
469
00:20:13,896 --> 00:20:16,724
But, think about it,
they'd all been out partying,
470
00:20:16,758 --> 00:20:20,034
uh, two of them had been over
at the Sigma Chi house,
471
00:20:20,068 --> 00:20:21,931
uh, Xana and Ethan.
472
00:20:21,965 --> 00:20:25,724
And, um, the others
had been out at
a food truck,
473
00:20:25,758 --> 00:20:28,517
they had been at a bar
before that, a sports bar.
474
00:20:28,551 --> 00:20:31,000
It's late at night,
they're going to sleep,
475
00:20:31,034 --> 00:20:32,896
-they've had a couple
of drinks.
-[Derrick] Hmm.
476
00:20:32,931 --> 00:20:34,310
Probably,
they didn't scream out
477
00:20:34,344 --> 00:20:36,068
because they were dropping off
to sleep.
478
00:20:36,103 --> 00:20:37,379
-[Derrick] Yeah--
-[Mara] But,
what's so ominous is--
479
00:20:37,413 --> 00:20:39,724
is the roommate reported
hearing the male voice say,
480
00:20:39,758 --> 00:20:42,034
"It's okay,
I'm going to help you."
481
00:20:42,068 --> 00:20:43,793
[Derrick] Yeah, I think--
I think you're in a situation
482
00:20:43,827 --> 00:20:45,379
and I hate to speculate
too much,
483
00:20:45,413 --> 00:20:46,689
but, if they were even
aware of it,
484
00:20:46,724 --> 00:20:48,241
which, I'm not
completely certain they were,
485
00:20:48,275 --> 00:20:49,689
they might've been in bed,
486
00:20:49,724 --> 00:20:51,241
they might not even know
they were about to
be attacked.
487
00:20:51,275 --> 00:20:53,034
But, you could have
a situation
488
00:20:53,068 --> 00:20:54,965
where you're in bed,
you're in your home,
489
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,862
you-you think you're safe.
490
00:20:56,896 --> 00:20:58,586
This-This figure comes
into the room,
491
00:20:58,620 --> 00:21:00,068
maybe holding the knife,
492
00:21:00,103 --> 00:21:02,310
what are you gonna do
as a human being?
You're gonna freeze.
493
00:21:02,344 --> 00:21:03,517
And you-you just want
them to leave.
494
00:21:03,551 --> 00:21:05,137
You just wanna be okay.
495
00:21:05,172 --> 00:21:07,413
So, if they say to you,
"Hey, listen, stay calm.
Everything's gonna be okay."
496
00:21:07,448 --> 00:21:08,724
You-- You're gonna comply.
497
00:21:08,758 --> 00:21:10,379
Because what else can you do
in that moment?
498
00:21:10,413 --> 00:21:12,172
And I think b--
if that's what happened
499
00:21:12,206 --> 00:21:13,620
when he attacked,
it was-- it was too late.
500
00:21:13,655 --> 00:21:16,931
Well, we're also learning
from, uh, Steve Goncalves,
501
00:21:16,965 --> 00:21:19,586
which of course is
Kaylee Goncalves' father,
502
00:21:19,620 --> 00:21:24,137
that he believes
Kaylee was kind of trapped
against the wall,
503
00:21:24,172 --> 00:21:26,620
and... tried to fight back.
504
00:21:26,655 --> 00:21:29,413
In other words,
Maddie was lying here,
505
00:21:29,448 --> 00:21:31,344
uh, Kaylee was here,
506
00:21:31,379 --> 00:21:33,620
and the wall--
two walls were here,
507
00:21:33,655 --> 00:21:35,379
the bed was
pushed against them.
508
00:21:35,413 --> 00:21:37,724
And if he came
for Maddie first,
509
00:21:37,758 --> 00:21:39,586
then there's nowhere
for her to go.
510
00:21:39,620 --> 00:21:41,620
-No.
-She was really trapped.
511
00:21:41,655 --> 00:21:42,896
I mean, in the middle
of the night,
512
00:21:42,931 --> 00:21:45,655
in the dark,
you can't see what's going on.
513
00:21:45,689 --> 00:21:48,000
And I've been told that
514
00:21:48,034 --> 00:21:49,344
some of the investigators
515
00:21:49,379 --> 00:21:53,000
actually felt ill
when they got to the scene.
516
00:21:53,034 --> 00:21:54,206
And the other thing too.
517
00:21:54,241 --> 00:21:55,827
And there's been other cases
where we've seen
518
00:21:55,862 --> 00:21:56,965
video surveillance of it
519
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,758
where a stabbing
happens
in a matter of seconds.
520
00:21:59,793 --> 00:22:04,034
You can stab someone
a lot of times
in only a few minutes.
521
00:22:04,068 --> 00:22:05,724
-I mean, it's--
-Hey, another thing.
522
00:22:05,758 --> 00:22:07,034
Have you guys seen this?
523
00:22:07,068 --> 00:22:09,379
He comes back
to the scene the next morning.
524
00:22:09,413 --> 00:22:11,896
Yes, and wanna see
if police are
on the scene yet.
525
00:22:11,931 --> 00:22:14,448
Do you wanna see
if the bodies have been
discovered yet?
526
00:22:14,482 --> 00:22:17,931
Is there-- Is there
medical attention
that's being provided?
527
00:22:17,965 --> 00:22:19,310
Is the media there yet?
528
00:22:19,344 --> 00:22:21,344
You wanna go back,
presumably,
529
00:22:21,379 --> 00:22:22,689
if this is what took place...
530
00:22:22,724 --> 00:22:24,000
Go back to
the scene of the crime
531
00:22:24,034 --> 00:22:25,482
to see what
the aftermath is like.
532
00:22:25,517 --> 00:22:28,000
But they had not discovered
that those--
the victims were killed yet.
533
00:22:28,034 --> 00:22:29,896
There's also
a gratification, too, right?
534
00:22:29,931 --> 00:22:31,275
You wanna see your work.
535
00:22:31,310 --> 00:22:33,655
And of course,
let's just say it again.
536
00:22:33,689 --> 00:22:36,931
He has pled
not guilty in a court of law.
537
00:22:36,965 --> 00:22:39,068
We are waiting
for the jury trial to start.
538
00:22:39,103 --> 00:22:41,275
Don't know
when that's going to be.
539
00:22:41,310 --> 00:22:43,344
Meanwhile,
on the other side
of the country,
540
00:22:43,379 --> 00:22:46,793
the Kentucky murder case
of Crystal Rogers.
541
00:22:46,827 --> 00:22:48,379
A lot of questions
are being asked.
542
00:22:48,413 --> 00:22:51,000
Not only about her boyfriend,
543
00:22:51,034 --> 00:22:53,241
but about
her boyfriend's family.
544
00:22:53,275 --> 00:22:55,413
And the murder
of not only her,
545
00:22:55,448 --> 00:22:57,827
but of her father,
Tommy Ballard.
546
00:23:12,517 --> 00:23:13,655
Welcome back
to Crimefeed.
547
00:23:13,689 --> 00:23:14,517
I'm Nancy Grace.
548
00:23:14,551 --> 00:23:16,551
Here with Mara S. Campo
549
00:23:16,586 --> 00:23:18,103
and Derrick Levasseur.
550
00:23:18,137 --> 00:23:21,689
Next, a mother of five
missing over eight years.
551
00:23:21,724 --> 00:23:25,068
Her boyfriend, finally,
arrested for murder.
552
00:23:25,103 --> 00:23:26,862
But the case
has also bled over
553
00:23:26,896 --> 00:23:29,275
into the lives
of both of their families.
554
00:23:29,310 --> 00:23:31,965
Find out why
the boyfriend's brother
555
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,275
is now being investigated
556
00:23:33,310 --> 00:23:37,034
in the death of
the missing woman's father.
557
00:23:37,068 --> 00:23:39,517
Mara, what is going on?
558
00:23:39,551 --> 00:23:41,827
Nd how are all these
family members involved?
559
00:23:41,862 --> 00:23:43,896
Yeah, so many layers
to this case, Nancy.
560
00:23:43,931 --> 00:23:47,448
Crystal Rogers
was last seen
on July 3rd, 2015
561
00:23:47,482 --> 00:23:50,586
on the Kentucky farm
where she lived with her
boyfriend, Brooks Houck.
562
00:23:50,620 --> 00:23:52,379
Well, now, he's been
a main suspect
563
00:23:52,413 --> 00:23:53,482
since, pretty much, day one.
564
00:23:53,517 --> 00:23:55,000
But he was just arrested
565
00:23:55,034 --> 00:23:57,689
and charged for her murder
in late September.
566
00:23:57,724 --> 00:23:59,793
So let's take a look
at the winding road
567
00:23:59,827 --> 00:24:02,310
that led to
Brooks Houck's indictment
568
00:24:02,344 --> 00:24:04,689
eight years
after Crystal's disappearance.
569
00:24:07,896 --> 00:24:09,896
[Mara] Crystal Rogers
was reported missing
570
00:24:09,931 --> 00:24:12,793
on July 5th, 2015,
by her mother,
571
00:24:12,827 --> 00:24:15,620
when no one had
heard from her in two days.
572
00:24:15,655 --> 00:24:16,965
Her boyfriend, Brooks Houck,
573
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,827
was reportedly
the last one to see her
574
00:24:18,862 --> 00:24:21,137
in his family farm
at Bardstown, Kentucky
575
00:24:21,172 --> 00:24:22,827
on the night of July 3rd.
576
00:24:22,862 --> 00:24:25,034
Brooks says,
when he woke up
the next morning,
577
00:24:25,068 --> 00:24:27,137
Crystal and her car
were gone.
578
00:24:28,724 --> 00:24:31,206
The search got underway
almost immediately
579
00:24:31,241 --> 00:24:32,724
and Crystal's car
was soon found
580
00:24:32,758 --> 00:24:34,275
on the side
of a parkway.
581
00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:38,758
Her keys, purse
and cellphone, still inside.
582
00:24:38,793 --> 00:24:41,482
Police called in
Brooks Houck for questioning.
583
00:24:41,517 --> 00:24:44,689
And it began
as a fairly routine interview.
584
00:24:44,724 --> 00:24:48,137
Until Brooks got a call
from his brother, Nick Houck.
585
00:24:48,172 --> 00:24:49,551
[cell phone ringing]
586
00:24:49,586 --> 00:24:51,344
Hello. No.
587
00:24:51,379 --> 00:24:53,689
[Mara]
A Bardstown police officer
588
00:24:53,724 --> 00:24:56,965
advising him
to end the interview,
immediately.
589
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,482
I know you told me
innocent people got jammed up.
590
00:24:59,517 --> 00:25:01,689
If you're telling me to leave,
I'll get up and leave.
591
00:25:01,724 --> 00:25:04,310
[Mara] When Nick
inserted himself
into the case,
592
00:25:04,344 --> 00:25:06,206
police questioned him
as well.
593
00:25:06,241 --> 00:25:08,034
Well because you're
telling me I'm lying
and I know I'm not.
594
00:25:08,068 --> 00:25:09,172
I know the truth.
595
00:25:09,206 --> 00:25:10,344
You know?
596
00:25:10,379 --> 00:25:12,413
And I'm really 100% honest.
597
00:25:12,448 --> 00:25:14,517
[Mara] And after failing
a polygraph test,
598
00:25:14,551 --> 00:25:16,172
regarding
Crystal's disappearance,
599
00:25:16,206 --> 00:25:19,379
Nick became heated
with his interrogators.
600
00:25:19,413 --> 00:25:22,413
And if you don't wanna
believe me, that's your issue,
it's not mine.
601
00:25:22,448 --> 00:25:23,931
[officer] It's not just me.
I showed you.
602
00:25:23,965 --> 00:25:27,275
I don't give a [bleep]
what you're [bleep]
computer's saying.
603
00:25:27,310 --> 00:25:30,724
[Mara] Nick was then fired
from the Bardstown
Police Department
604
00:25:30,758 --> 00:25:31,931
over accusations of
605
00:25:31,965 --> 00:25:34,448
"lying or concealing
information
606
00:25:34,482 --> 00:25:36,206
"relate to Crystal's case."
607
00:25:36,241 --> 00:25:38,655
But with both brothers
denying involvement
608
00:25:38,689 --> 00:25:41,896
and still no sign
of the missing mother of five,
609
00:25:41,931 --> 00:25:47,379
the biggest shock in the case
would unfold
in November, 2016.
610
00:25:47,413 --> 00:25:49,344
Crystal's father
Tommy Ballard
611
00:25:49,379 --> 00:25:50,517
was found dead
612
00:25:50,551 --> 00:25:53,068
by a single gunshot wound
to his chest.
613
00:25:54,758 --> 00:25:57,827
By 2020, with no arrests
in either case,
614
00:25:57,862 --> 00:25:59,586
the FBI took over
615
00:25:59,620 --> 00:26:02,344
Tearing up the driveway
of one of the Houck homes
616
00:26:02,379 --> 00:26:04,965
and repeatedly searching
their properties.
617
00:26:06,068 --> 00:26:09,000
Finally, in August
and September of this year
618
00:26:09,034 --> 00:26:11,310
agents arrested Brooks Houck
619
00:26:11,344 --> 00:26:13,103
as well as Joseph Lawson,
620
00:26:13,137 --> 00:26:15,413
the son of one
of his employees.
621
00:26:16,206 --> 00:26:18,448
In yet another shocking twist,
622
00:26:18,482 --> 00:26:20,965
during Brooks' court hearing
earlier this month
623
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,827
prosecutors reveal that Nick
624
00:26:22,862 --> 00:26:25,310
is now officially
under investigation too.
625
00:26:33,103 --> 00:26:35,482
[Mara]
He recently sold a gun
under a false name
626
00:26:35,517 --> 00:26:38,793
that matches the caliber
used to kill Tommy Ballard,
627
00:26:38,827 --> 00:26:42,172
Crystal's father,
back in 2016.
628
00:26:42,206 --> 00:26:44,068
With us now,
Fallon Glick.
629
00:26:44,103 --> 00:26:48,103
Reporter, anchor
WDRB TV in Kentucky.
630
00:26:48,137 --> 00:26:50,344
Fallon, thank you so much
for being with us.
631
00:26:50,379 --> 00:26:52,758
Oh, what a tangled
web we weave,
632
00:26:52,793 --> 00:26:55,000
when first we practice
to deceive.
633
00:26:55,034 --> 00:26:59,206
First of all,
tell me about the gun
634
00:26:59,241 --> 00:27:04,482
that, reportedly,
murdered Crystal's father,
Tommy Ballard.
635
00:27:06,034 --> 00:27:08,137
Well, that information
came out during
636
00:27:08,172 --> 00:27:10,034
an arraignment hearing
for Brooks Houck.
637
00:27:10,068 --> 00:27:11,827
And nobody saw that coming.
638
00:27:11,862 --> 00:27:13,896
It was a bombshell
from the prosecutor.
639
00:27:13,931 --> 00:27:15,586
Because we were all there,
640
00:27:15,620 --> 00:27:17,758
covering the case
for Brooks Houck,
641
00:27:17,793 --> 00:27:19,793
and then when they
dropped the bomb
642
00:27:19,827 --> 00:27:22,344
that Nick was connected to
643
00:27:22,379 --> 00:27:23,655
the murder of Tommy Ballard.
644
00:27:23,689 --> 00:27:27,620
And that was speculation
for years in
the Bardstown community.
645
00:27:27,655 --> 00:27:30,758
But for the first time,
we heard that
from an official.
646
00:27:30,793 --> 00:27:33,448
And we also heard
from the prosecutor
647
00:27:33,482 --> 00:27:36,448
that Nick Houck sold that gun
648
00:27:36,482 --> 00:27:38,379
under a fake name,
649
00:27:38,413 --> 00:27:40,896
and the FBI
now has that gun
650
00:27:40,931 --> 00:27:43,896
and they are doing
multiple tests on it.
651
00:27:43,931 --> 00:27:45,896
-And four out
of the five points--
-[Nancy] Right.
652
00:27:45,931 --> 00:27:49,241
[Fallon] Those come back
to be the gun
they believe was the one
653
00:27:49,275 --> 00:27:50,586
used to kill Tommy Ballard.
654
00:27:50,620 --> 00:27:53,413
Well, Fallon, we know
it wasn't an accident
655
00:27:53,448 --> 00:27:55,620
or a suicide by Tommy Ballard
656
00:27:55,655 --> 00:27:57,931
because his gun
had not been fired.
657
00:27:57,965 --> 00:28:00,862
That's very easy to determine
with ballistics.
658
00:28:00,896 --> 00:28:04,206
So now I understand
they've got four
out of five points matching.
659
00:28:04,241 --> 00:28:07,620
We're waiting to find out
if that was Nick's gun.
660
00:28:07,655 --> 00:28:10,310
Another thing
about Nick Houck.
661
00:28:10,344 --> 00:28:14,103
Isn't it true that he called
to the police department
662
00:28:14,137 --> 00:28:17,275
when his brother
Brooks Houck
was being interviewed
663
00:28:17,310 --> 00:28:18,827
and told him to stop talking?
664
00:28:19,586 --> 00:28:21,172
Oh, yes.
That's 100% true.
665
00:28:21,206 --> 00:28:23,310
And then you can
kind of see on that video
666
00:28:23,344 --> 00:28:24,793
from the interrogation room
667
00:28:24,827 --> 00:28:28,551
that Brooks and Nick,
kind of, get into a little bit
of an argument.
668
00:28:28,586 --> 00:28:31,413
And when Nick
was then questioned
about this,
669
00:28:31,448 --> 00:28:34,068
he said, "Well,
my brother Brooks is
670
00:28:34,103 --> 00:28:36,275
"a very easygoing guy,
671
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:38,448
"he wants to help
with the investigation."
672
00:28:38,482 --> 00:28:41,689
so he said it was his duty
as his brother,
673
00:28:41,724 --> 00:28:45,758
to help make sure
he wasn't going to
incriminate himself.
674
00:28:45,793 --> 00:28:48,689
And the detectives
in the case were saying,
675
00:28:48,724 --> 00:28:50,448
"Well, you wanna help
your brother here,
676
00:28:50,482 --> 00:28:53,379
"but why didn't you help
when Crystal first
went missing?
677
00:28:53,413 --> 00:28:55,068
"Why didn't you help
with any of those searches?"
678
00:28:55,103 --> 00:28:57,655
So they were asking him
some of those questions.
679
00:28:57,689 --> 00:29:00,275
"Well, if you're helping here,
why aren't you helping
in this area as well?"
680
00:29:00,310 --> 00:29:02,379
-'Cause he's a police officer.
-[Nancy] What do
you think, Mara?
681
00:29:02,413 --> 00:29:03,896
Well, you know,
there have been
a lot of questions
682
00:29:03,931 --> 00:29:06,379
about both of
the brothers' behavior
since the very beginning.
683
00:29:06,413 --> 00:29:08,724
One of the biggest
questions is
"Why didn't Brooks report--"
684
00:29:08,758 --> 00:29:10,793
Wait, we haven't really told
about Crystal, Mara.
685
00:29:10,827 --> 00:29:12,551
She was asleep in the bed.
686
00:29:12,586 --> 00:29:13,620
Beside the boyfriend.
687
00:29:13,655 --> 00:29:15,793
The father of
one of her five children.
688
00:29:15,827 --> 00:29:17,586
He says he goes to sleep,
she's playing games.
689
00:29:17,620 --> 00:29:19,310
-And he wakes up,
she's gone.
-[Mara] She's gone.
690
00:29:19,344 --> 00:29:21,413
And he didn't think
anything off it?
691
00:29:21,448 --> 00:29:22,862
And he couldn't find her?
692
00:29:22,896 --> 00:29:25,137
[Mara] And what you know is,
in my opinion as a mother,
693
00:29:25,172 --> 00:29:26,862
one of the most
important aspects
of this case.
694
00:29:26,896 --> 00:29:29,068
Because she is often
described as his girlfriend.
695
00:29:29,103 --> 00:29:31,379
She's also
the mother of his child.
696
00:29:31,413 --> 00:29:33,241
So, if the mother
of your child is missing...
697
00:29:33,275 --> 00:29:35,000
And then this is
right around the holidays,
698
00:29:35,034 --> 00:29:36,551
it's right before
the 4th of July.
699
00:29:36,586 --> 00:29:39,206
Then she doesn't show up
for 4th of July festivities,
700
00:29:39,241 --> 00:29:40,793
he still doesn't
report her missing.
701
00:29:40,827 --> 00:29:42,034
-[Nancy] You know,
I asked him about that.
-[slaps table]
702
00:29:42,068 --> 00:29:45,034
I asked Brooks Houck
that question
703
00:29:45,068 --> 00:29:48,000
"You're supposed to meet her
at the July 4th party,
and she never shows up.
704
00:29:48,034 --> 00:29:49,275
"Did you call her?"
705
00:29:49,310 --> 00:29:51,551
And he goes,
"No, I didn't think
it was that important."
706
00:29:51,586 --> 00:29:52,758
What?
707
00:29:52,793 --> 00:29:55,068
And also, the brother of--
I'm sorry, the brother Nick,
708
00:29:55,103 --> 00:29:56,586
who is a police officer.
709
00:29:56,620 --> 00:29:58,862
This is your nephew's mother.
710
00:29:58,896 --> 00:30:00,137
You would think
if you're a police officer
711
00:30:00,172 --> 00:30:02,344
then you would do
everything possible
712
00:30:02,379 --> 00:30:03,793
to try and aid
in the investigation.
713
00:30:03,827 --> 00:30:05,034
He's accused
of the opposite.
714
00:30:05,068 --> 00:30:06,310
According--
He didn't even know her,
according to Nick.
715
00:30:06,344 --> 00:30:07,413
He didn't even realize--
716
00:30:07,448 --> 00:30:08,655
Fallon, I wanted to ask you
a question real quick.
717
00:30:08,689 --> 00:30:10,482
'Cause I'm seeing
different reports on this.
718
00:30:10,517 --> 00:30:14,034
It seems like shortly after
they ripped up one of
the driveways owned by Brooks,
719
00:30:14,068 --> 00:30:16,655
the case really started
to pick up steam.
720
00:30:16,689 --> 00:30:17,862
But I'm seeing
two different reports.
721
00:30:17,896 --> 00:30:20,275
I'm seeing that
the driveway was
of his personal property
722
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:22,758
and then some--
some are saying that
it was his rental property.
723
00:30:22,793 --> 00:30:25,137
Can you tell us
which one it was?
724
00:30:25,172 --> 00:30:27,310
So, that property
where they ripped up
that driveway,
725
00:30:27,344 --> 00:30:29,827
that was a home
that Brooks Houck built.
726
00:30:29,862 --> 00:30:33,206
So, we don't know
what led the FBI
to that house
727
00:30:33,241 --> 00:30:35,965
But Brooks was responsible
for building that house,
728
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,310
pouring the concrete.
729
00:30:37,344 --> 00:30:38,724
He took care of everything
730
00:30:38,758 --> 00:30:41,551
to get that house built
for a family to move in there.
731
00:30:41,586 --> 00:30:44,379
And you know, you feel bad
for the family
who lives there now.
732
00:30:44,413 --> 00:30:45,517
Um, but...
733
00:30:45,551 --> 00:30:47,655
the driveway
has been replaced and all.
734
00:30:47,689 --> 00:30:49,862
But we don't know
what they found.
735
00:30:49,896 --> 00:30:52,862
We don't know what
the FBI took away
from that search warrant.
736
00:30:52,896 --> 00:30:54,551
[Nancy] Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
737
00:30:54,586 --> 00:30:58,344
Didn't they see
multiple construction trucks
738
00:30:58,379 --> 00:31:00,689
leaving with big, huge chunks
739
00:31:00,724 --> 00:31:02,034
of the driveway
740
00:31:02,068 --> 00:31:03,931
on the bed of the truck?
741
00:31:03,965 --> 00:31:05,689
They took the driveway.
742
00:31:05,724 --> 00:31:07,758
And one of the reasons
they took that driveway
743
00:31:07,793 --> 00:31:09,034
after they jackhammered it,
744
00:31:09,068 --> 00:31:12,379
cause they had
sniffer dogs out there.
745
00:31:12,413 --> 00:31:14,482
Now, they have dogs out there.
746
00:31:14,517 --> 00:31:17,793
And suddenly start--
they start jackhammering
a driveway.
747
00:31:17,827 --> 00:31:19,448
I mean, a logical conclusion,
748
00:31:19,482 --> 00:31:21,068
two plus two
still equals four,
749
00:31:21,103 --> 00:31:23,758
I think is that the dogs hit.
750
00:31:23,793 --> 00:31:25,275
We don't know that yet.
751
00:31:25,310 --> 00:31:27,137
And again
there's a not guilty plea.
752
00:31:27,172 --> 00:31:29,482
We're waiting
for this to unfold, in court,
753
00:31:29,517 --> 00:31:32,551
But I'm concerned also about
754
00:31:32,586 --> 00:31:34,275
him possibly getting bond.
755
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:36,827
Right now he's got
a $10 million bond set.
756
00:31:36,862 --> 00:31:38,448
People think,
"Oh, he can't make it."
757
00:31:38,482 --> 00:31:40,724
But isn't it true,
Fallon Glick,
758
00:31:40,758 --> 00:31:42,344
that at the last hearing,
759
00:31:42,379 --> 00:31:44,965
the prosecutor
brough out property titles
760
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,724
that shows he's actually
a multi-millionaire?
761
00:31:48,758 --> 00:31:51,931
That's right. He owns
about 80-some properties
762
00:31:51,965 --> 00:31:53,689
in the Bardstown area,
763
00:31:53,724 --> 00:31:55,931
and the prosecutor
brought out
tax assessments
764
00:31:55,965 --> 00:31:57,000
for 66 of those.
765
00:31:57,034 --> 00:31:58,413
So that's not even
all of them.
766
00:31:58,448 --> 00:32:01,655
And for 66 of those properties
that he owns,
767
00:32:01,689 --> 00:32:04,793
it equals out to
about $8.5 million.
768
00:32:04,827 --> 00:32:07,827
-[Derrick whistles]
-So if we have all
80-some properties,
769
00:32:07,862 --> 00:32:09,482
the prosecutor was saying,
770
00:32:09,517 --> 00:32:12,379
he could easily make
that $10 million bond.
771
00:32:12,413 --> 00:32:14,689
[Mara] But Nancy,
if I'm not mistaken,
this is a cash bond, right?
772
00:32:14,724 --> 00:32:16,758
So he has to put forth
all of it as cash.
773
00:32:16,793 --> 00:32:18,103
He can't use collateral.
774
00:32:18,137 --> 00:32:19,413
He can't put down
a percentage.
775
00:32:19,448 --> 00:32:20,275
-So...
-Assurity.
776
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:21,758
And they're--
They're trying to ensure
777
00:32:21,793 --> 00:32:22,793
he stays where he is.
778
00:32:22,827 --> 00:32:24,172
And one of the reasons
that the court decided
779
00:32:24,206 --> 00:32:25,758
is because
they are concerned
780
00:32:25,793 --> 00:32:28,137
about the safety
of other witnesses.
781
00:32:28,172 --> 00:32:31,689
Presumably, incorporating
what happened to Tommy Ballard
782
00:32:31,724 --> 00:32:34,137
-into-- into some of that...
-I got a question
for you guys.
783
00:32:34,172 --> 00:32:35,482
Jump in, Fallon.
784
00:32:35,517 --> 00:32:37,793
If your beloved...
785
00:32:37,827 --> 00:32:40,655
Your husband, your wife,
your boyfriend,
your girlfriend...
786
00:32:40,689 --> 00:32:42,896
You wake up
and they're not there,
787
00:32:42,931 --> 00:32:46,827
I would be lying
on the front steps
of the police station,
788
00:32:46,862 --> 00:32:50,034
screaming for
a full on search.
789
00:32:50,068 --> 00:32:53,896
I asked him,
point blank, to his face,
790
00:32:53,931 --> 00:32:55,724
"So, weren't you worried,
791
00:32:55,758 --> 00:32:57,551
"when you woke up
and she's just gone?"
792
00:32:57,586 --> 00:32:58,896
He goes, "Nah.
793
00:32:58,931 --> 00:33:00,758
"I thought she went over
to a friend's house."
794
00:33:00,793 --> 00:33:02,310
I'm like, "Really?
Did you call the friend?"
795
00:33:02,344 --> 00:33:03,344
Because I'd be worried.
796
00:33:03,379 --> 00:33:04,965
Well, but you know
who was tremendously worried
797
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,586
and doing everything
that you've just described
798
00:33:06,620 --> 00:33:07,793
is her parents.
799
00:33:07,827 --> 00:33:10,793
So, Tommy Ballard
was so focused on this search,
800
00:33:10,827 --> 00:33:13,413
that he himself was going out
801
00:33:13,448 --> 00:33:15,068
to rivers
and to the woods,
802
00:33:15,103 --> 00:33:16,275
and he was looking for her.
803
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:18,517
he family was paying
for billboards,
804
00:33:18,551 --> 00:33:21,172
saying "Brooks Houck,
where is Crystal Rogers?"
805
00:33:21,206 --> 00:33:22,586
He was dealing
with this head on,
806
00:33:22,620 --> 00:33:24,793
and of course, as we know,
then he goes on to be killed.
807
00:33:24,827 --> 00:33:27,206
Fallon, I wonder
if you have any insight
808
00:33:27,241 --> 00:33:29,000
into potential motive
809
00:33:29,034 --> 00:33:32,413
behind the death
of Crystal Rogers' father.
810
00:33:32,448 --> 00:33:35,241
Um, and also, is it still
classified as
a hunting accident?
811
00:33:35,275 --> 00:33:39,344
Or has it at least
been moved to
a homicide investigation?
812
00:33:39,379 --> 00:33:42,275
Oh, it was originally
classified as
a hunting accident
813
00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:44,586
but now that it's a homicide
investigation.
814
00:33:44,620 --> 00:33:47,275
But in terms of
Crystal Rogers' family,
815
00:33:47,310 --> 00:33:49,000
the Ballard family...
816
00:33:49,034 --> 00:33:51,413
If there's one thing
you know about
the Ballard family,
817
00:33:51,448 --> 00:33:54,034
they love each other,
and, um...
818
00:33:54,068 --> 00:33:56,931
Tommy Ballard loved
Crystal so much.
819
00:33:56,965 --> 00:34:00,310
He wanted to find her.
He was starting
his own investigation.
820
00:34:00,344 --> 00:34:04,137
Because he worked
relentlessly to try
and bring her back home.
821
00:34:04,172 --> 00:34:06,655
He wanted answers
and he was going to find them,
822
00:34:06,689 --> 00:34:07,620
no matter what.
823
00:34:07,655 --> 00:34:10,655
And the idea,
the thinking in Bardstown
824
00:34:10,688 --> 00:34:13,000
is that maybe he was
getting a little too close
825
00:34:13,034 --> 00:34:14,688
to finding Crystal,
826
00:34:14,724 --> 00:34:16,688
and then his life was taken.
827
00:34:17,206 --> 00:34:18,793
Fallon, is it true
828
00:34:18,827 --> 00:34:21,379
that Brooks Houck's
new girlfriend
829
00:34:22,688 --> 00:34:27,000
was caught tearing down
Solve My Murder posters?
830
00:34:28,447 --> 00:34:29,447
That is correct.
831
00:34:29,482 --> 00:34:32,447
she ripped them
from a corner gas station--
832
00:34:32,482 --> 00:34:34,068
That she said
while she was pumping gas.
833
00:34:34,103 --> 00:34:36,585
And she got arrested for that.
834
00:34:36,620 --> 00:34:39,931
Her name is also Crystal.
Her name is Crystal Maupin.
835
00:34:39,965 --> 00:34:44,379
And the judge
court-ordered her
to write an apology
836
00:34:44,413 --> 00:34:45,793
-to Sherry Ballard,
Crystal's mom.
-[Nancy] Okay, wait, wait.
837
00:34:45,827 --> 00:34:48,655
Fallon. Fallon,
slow down, just a moment.
838
00:34:48,688 --> 00:34:51,447
So Brooks Houck's
new girlfriend,
839
00:34:51,482 --> 00:34:52,793
also named Crystal,
840
00:34:52,827 --> 00:34:54,206
-Crystal Maupin...
-Mm-hmm.
841
00:34:54,241 --> 00:34:58,310
...was actually taking down
"Solve My Murder Case",
842
00:34:58,344 --> 00:35:00,068
with Crystal's picture on it?
843
00:35:00,103 --> 00:35:01,793
Crystal Rogers' picture on it?
844
00:35:01,827 --> 00:35:03,896
Why was she
tearing those posters down?
845
00:35:04,896 --> 00:35:06,620
Well, there was no picture
on the signs.
846
00:35:06,655 --> 00:35:08,689
Most of them say
"Solve these murders",
847
00:35:08,724 --> 00:35:10,862
"Prayers for Tommy Ballard",
"Prayers for Crystal".
848
00:35:10,896 --> 00:35:12,896
But she said
she was taking them down,
849
00:35:12,931 --> 00:35:14,724
uh, because it wasn't true.
850
00:35:14,758 --> 00:35:17,793
It wasn't true
what they were saying
about her boyfriend.
851
00:35:17,827 --> 00:35:19,724
So she took it
upon herself
852
00:35:19,758 --> 00:35:21,344
to take those signs.
853
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,862
Fallon Glick, WDRB,
854
00:35:23,896 --> 00:35:25,137
thank you for being with us.
855
00:35:25,172 --> 00:35:26,000
When we get back,
856
00:35:26,034 --> 00:35:28,000
this case gets
even more bizarre.
857
00:35:28,034 --> 00:35:31,448
There's another suspect.
Joseph Lawson.
858
00:35:40,586 --> 00:35:41,586
We've taken a look
859
00:35:41,620 --> 00:35:43,862
at two of the Houck brothers.
860
00:35:43,896 --> 00:35:46,827
Nick Houck
and the brother, Brooks Houck.
861
00:35:46,862 --> 00:35:49,344
But who is Joseph Lawson?
862
00:35:49,379 --> 00:35:52,862
Is he somehow
tied to all of this?
863
00:35:52,896 --> 00:35:55,241
Crystal's murder
and her father's murder?
864
00:35:55,275 --> 00:35:57,172
According to WDRB TV,
865
00:35:57,206 --> 00:36:00,448
five women have accused Lawson
of assaulting them
866
00:36:00,482 --> 00:36:02,793
or threatening them
since 2009.
867
00:36:02,827 --> 00:36:05,068
Now he shares children
with two of them.
868
00:36:05,103 --> 00:36:07,655
He was accused
of choking and hitting
one woman.
869
00:36:07,689 --> 00:36:09,655
And convicted
of a misdemeanor assault,
870
00:36:09,689 --> 00:36:12,931
and ordered to be
on two years of probation.
871
00:36:12,965 --> 00:36:16,448
Well, it's certainly not
a very good track record.
872
00:36:16,482 --> 00:36:17,965
We don't know
a lot about him
873
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,827
but this is what I do know.
874
00:36:19,862 --> 00:36:22,448
He's charged with
conspiring to commit murder,
875
00:36:22,482 --> 00:36:24,379
and he's charged with
tampering with evidence
876
00:36:24,413 --> 00:36:28,275
between July 3
and July 4, 2015,
877
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:31,000
which is exactly
when Crystal Rogers
878
00:36:31,034 --> 00:36:32,413
"goes missing",
879
00:36:32,448 --> 00:36:34,448
aka was murdered.
880
00:36:34,482 --> 00:36:35,827
What about it, Derrick?
881
00:36:35,862 --> 00:36:37,517
Well there's a couple
of things here.
I'm fascinated by this.
882
00:36:37,551 --> 00:36:39,758
So we talked
about the driveway
in the previous segment.
883
00:36:39,793 --> 00:36:40,896
And I think
that's critical here.
884
00:36:40,931 --> 00:36:43,206
Because as a detective,
what I wanna do
885
00:36:43,241 --> 00:36:46,793
is go after the person
with the least involvement
but the most to lose.
886
00:36:46,827 --> 00:36:49,172
And by charging him
with that conspiracy,
887
00:36:49,206 --> 00:36:51,689
he can be impl--
he can be sentenced
to the same thing
888
00:36:51,724 --> 00:36:53,310
as Brooks,
if he did it. Right?
889
00:36:53,344 --> 00:36:56,275
So, let's say Brooks calls
Steve Lawson,
890
00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:58,413
which is
Joseph Lawson's father.
891
00:36:58,448 --> 00:37:01,551
And supposedly, Steve Lawson
worked for Brooks.
892
00:37:01,586 --> 00:37:05,206
Something happens that night.
He allegedly called
Steve Lawson that night.
893
00:37:05,241 --> 00:37:07,344
Calls him. Somehow
Joseph gets involved.
894
00:37:07,379 --> 00:37:08,724
You're talking July 3.
895
00:37:08,758 --> 00:37:11,034
-That's right. He calls him--
-The night
that she goes missing.
896
00:37:11,068 --> 00:37:12,482
He calls him that evening.
897
00:37:12,517 --> 00:37:15,103
And he doesn't talk
to Joseph directly,
as far as we know.
898
00:37:15,137 --> 00:37:16,931
But somehow,
Joseph is involved.
899
00:37:16,965 --> 00:37:18,724
And then Joseph ends up
over at this driveway.
900
00:37:18,758 --> 00:37:20,517
Maybe he disposes
of something.
901
00:37:20,551 --> 00:37:22,344
So, he didn't have
a lot of involvement with this
902
00:37:22,379 --> 00:37:24,103
but, yeah,
they are charging him
the same way.
903
00:37:24,137 --> 00:37:25,310
So you attack him,
904
00:37:25,344 --> 00:37:27,137
because he's gonna be
the most willing
905
00:37:27,172 --> 00:37:29,275
to work with police.
And if you think about it,
906
00:37:29,310 --> 00:37:31,827
right after Joseph
was arrested,
who gets arrested?
907
00:37:31,862 --> 00:37:33,620
-Exactly. Brooks Houck.
-Brooks. Brooks gets arrested.
908
00:37:33,655 --> 00:37:35,620
And here--
And here's a really
interesting tie
909
00:37:35,655 --> 00:37:37,586
to some of
the domestic violence
that you mentioned earlier.
910
00:37:37,620 --> 00:37:39,275
The allegations
of domestic violence.
911
00:37:39,310 --> 00:37:40,896
In October, 2020,
912
00:37:40,931 --> 00:37:42,620
one of his alleged
domestic violence victims
913
00:37:42,655 --> 00:37:43,862
wrote a letter
to the court.
914
00:37:43,896 --> 00:37:45,206
And in that letter
she said, quote,
915
00:37:45,241 --> 00:37:49,103
"Joseph is also assisting
in a federal investigation."
916
00:37:49,137 --> 00:37:52,586
The FBI took over
the Crystal Rogers
investigation in 2020.
917
00:37:52,620 --> 00:37:55,103
To your point,
he then gets arrested
in September.
918
00:37:55,137 --> 00:37:57,137
-[Derrick] Yep.
-One month later,
Brooks get arrested.
919
00:37:57,172 --> 00:37:59,310
So, as you noted,
um, probably it's a lot--
920
00:37:59,344 --> 00:38:02,551
[Nancy] I got
a curveball for you.
For both of you. You ready?
921
00:38:02,586 --> 00:38:05,724
What about Grandma?
922
00:38:05,758 --> 00:38:07,655
-Oh...
-This-- Oh, this is crazy.
923
00:38:07,689 --> 00:38:11,000
Grandma,
the Houcks' grandmother
924
00:38:11,034 --> 00:38:12,931
owns a white Buick.
925
00:38:12,965 --> 00:38:16,448
A white Buick was seen
at the ho-- Houck farm,
926
00:38:16,482 --> 00:38:18,724
thirty acres,
where Crystal
was last seen alive
927
00:38:18,758 --> 00:38:20,137
that-- that we know of.
928
00:38:20,172 --> 00:38:23,758
A white Buick was there,
that night, July 3rd.
929
00:38:23,793 --> 00:38:25,586
That's just
a tenuous connection.
930
00:38:25,620 --> 00:38:28,137
But then,
when they asked the grandma
931
00:38:28,172 --> 00:38:30,310
to come and testify
at grand jury,
932
00:38:30,344 --> 00:38:32,724
she actually refused to.
933
00:38:32,758 --> 00:38:34,793
And immediately sold the car
934
00:38:34,827 --> 00:38:37,931
about a week or two
after Crystal goes missing.
935
00:38:37,965 --> 00:38:39,344
[Mara] I love that
you brought that up.
936
00:38:39,379 --> 00:38:41,310
because when you look
at the family ties
alleged in this case...
937
00:38:41,344 --> 00:38:43,482
You have Nick,
you have Brooks
938
00:38:43,517 --> 00:38:45,517
you have, now,
the grandmother.
939
00:38:45,551 --> 00:38:47,137
Then prosecutors revealed
940
00:38:47,172 --> 00:38:49,655
the sister, allegedly,
secretly recorded
941
00:38:49,689 --> 00:38:51,586
-the grand jury testimony.
-[Derrick] That's right.
942
00:38:51,620 --> 00:38:54,103
-So that she could allow--
-You gotta say that again.
943
00:38:54,137 --> 00:38:55,310
-So...
-Slow it down.
944
00:38:55,344 --> 00:38:56,758
I could not believe this.
945
00:38:56,793 --> 00:38:58,034
And this was a shock
to everybody.
946
00:38:58,068 --> 00:39:00,275
At one of the hearings
about bail,
947
00:39:00,310 --> 00:39:03,965
prosecutors revealed
that they had a recording,
an audio recording
948
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,068
of the sister, Rhonda's
grand jury testimony,
949
00:39:07,103 --> 00:39:08,206
which, it is illegal
950
00:39:08,241 --> 00:39:10,000
to record
a grand jury testimony.
951
00:39:10,034 --> 00:39:11,724
And they heard
a man on the tape,
952
00:39:11,758 --> 00:39:13,344
which they believe
to be Brooks,
953
00:39:13,379 --> 00:39:14,758
talking her into doing it,
954
00:39:14,793 --> 00:39:17,724
and saying, "Nicholas
will know where to find it."
Presumably Nick.
955
00:39:17,758 --> 00:39:20,344
So this whole thing,
alleged--
as it's alleged,
956
00:39:20,379 --> 00:39:22,068
-is a family affair.
-[Derrick] Hmm.
957
00:39:22,103 --> 00:39:26,379
So, bottom line
I've put on many a case
in front of the grand jury.
958
00:39:26,413 --> 00:39:29,000
I guess, now I'll have
to frisk the witnesses
959
00:39:29,034 --> 00:39:31,586
to see if they've got
a cellphone,
recording the whole time.
960
00:39:31,620 --> 00:39:36,689
But, reportedly, the reason
that they were recording
their grand jury testimony,
961
00:39:36,724 --> 00:39:38,379
is so they could
compare notes.
962
00:39:38,413 --> 00:39:40,413
So this one can hear
what that one will say
963
00:39:40,448 --> 00:39:41,655
and keep the story straight.
964
00:39:41,689 --> 00:39:45,862
Of course,
they are denying all of this.
965
00:39:45,896 --> 00:39:49,793
And everyone, so far,
is pleading not guilty.
966
00:39:49,827 --> 00:39:50,896
But I know this.
967
00:39:50,931 --> 00:39:54,034
We still don't have
Crystal Rogers' body.
968
00:39:54,068 --> 00:39:56,379
That's gonna be huge,
especially when you
have a case like this
969
00:39:56,413 --> 00:39:58,586
where you're trying to prove
not only that
she is no longer with us,
970
00:39:58,620 --> 00:40:00,310
but that she was
killed by another.
971
00:40:00,344 --> 00:40:01,655
But I also think
Tommy's death--
972
00:40:01,689 --> 00:40:03,103
Tommy Ballard is gonna
play into this--
973
00:40:03,137 --> 00:40:05,068
is gonna play into this,
significantly
974
00:40:05,103 --> 00:40:06,827
If they can
tie back this gun to him,
975
00:40:06,862 --> 00:40:09,689
which is gonna be based on
classification of the firearm,
976
00:40:09,724 --> 00:40:11,103
caliber, uh...
977
00:40:11,137 --> 00:40:13,620
striations on the casing,
if they have that.
978
00:40:13,655 --> 00:40:15,034
A fire pin indentation.
979
00:40:15,068 --> 00:40:16,655
If they can mat--
They have the gun.
980
00:40:16,689 --> 00:40:17,862
So they have something
to compare it to.
981
00:40:17,896 --> 00:40:20,413
And I'm hoping
they have a shell casing
in Tommy's case
982
00:40:20,448 --> 00:40:22,000
that you could have
Nick being arrested as well.
983
00:40:22,034 --> 00:40:23,620
But we can't forget
we are dealing with
984
00:40:23,655 --> 00:40:25,896
a defendant
with a lot of money
985
00:40:25,931 --> 00:40:27,068
so the defense can put on
a very, very good case.
986
00:40:27,103 --> 00:40:29,137
[Nancy] And a lot
of connections.
987
00:40:29,172 --> 00:40:32,862
Guys, October is
domestic violence
awareness month.
988
00:40:32,896 --> 00:40:35,896
In its annual
No Excuse For Abuse campaign,
989
00:40:35,931 --> 00:40:38,655
ID is partnering
with No More
990
00:40:38,689 --> 00:40:41,620
to help in
domestic abuse
and sex violence.
991
00:40:41,655 --> 00:40:44,862
To learn more about
how you can find help,
992
00:40:44,896 --> 00:40:47,586
to support survivors
and to contribute,
993
00:40:47,620 --> 00:40:51,344
go to
noexcuseforabuse.com.
994
00:40:51,379 --> 00:40:54,103
In the coming weeks,
we will bring you
995
00:40:54,137 --> 00:40:58,000
the biggest crime stories
making headlines
in our great country.
996
00:40:58,034 --> 00:41:00,689
And some cases
you may never have heard of.
997
00:41:00,724 --> 00:41:04,586
On behalf of our friends,
Mara ad Derrick,
998
00:41:04,620 --> 00:41:06,206
thank you for being with us.
999
00:41:06,241 --> 00:41:07,689
I'll see you
next week, friend.
82039
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