Original subtitles

Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace.

I want to thank you for being with us. This is Crimefeed.

Breaking news tonight.

She goes missing on Mother's Day

when, coincidentally, both her daughters and her husband away.

All that's left, her trail bike.

About a mile away, her helmet.

In a bizarre twist,

skeletonized remains just found beyond the Great Sand Dunes,

40 minutes away, identified as Suzanne Morphew.

Many believed Suzanne's body would never be found.

And now, all eyes back on husband Barry Morphew.

What, if any, clues will her body reveal?

And a YouTube star mom of six,

with over two million followers drinking in

her so-called mommy advice on how to raise your children with a lot of tough love.

Bombshell tonight.

Her 12-year-old little boy, duct tape restraints still on his body,

crawls out a window, runs to neighbors,

begging for food and to help his little sister aged 10.

Both children alone, starved, afraid,

covered in bruises and lacerations.

When the neighbor calls 911, he actually breaks down in tears.

With me, private investigator Derrick Levasseur

and investigative journalist Mara S. Campo.

This week on Crimefeed.

Bombshell tonight. An incredible break this week.

Some say a miracle.

And a three-year search for a missing Colorado mom,

Suzanne Morphew.

Her body, now just skeletonized remains,

found scattered near a shallow grave

on remote, arid, windswept terrain.

Police actually in the area on another completely unrelated case.

Mara S. Campo, what happened?

Well, Nancy, you know, what makes this discovery so shocking

is that investigators were looking for a different missing woman

when they found Suzanne Morphew's remains.

They performed an autopsy days afterwards

looking for clues in this mystery that started three years ago.

Three long years ago on Mother's Day,

a dedicated mother of two goes missing.

Suzanna Morphew's husband, Barry,

told police he'd left early that morning.

He was on a work trip and said the last time he saw his wife

she was sleeping in bed.

But Suzanne's daughters Mallory and Macy

didn't get responses from their mother

which was odd for Mother's Day.

Husband Barry, knowing his wife sometimes liked to go mountain biking,

sent a friend to go check on her.

When there was no sign of Suzanne,

he asked them to call the police,

And a desperate search began.

If anyone is out there

that can hear this that has you...

Please, we'll do whatever it takes to bring you back.

[Mara] Within days, Suzanne's bike and helmet

were found in different locations

with no signs of an accident or struggle.

Strangely, her sunglasses and backpack were left in her car.

The scene where the bike was found

was immediately suspicious to investigators

who wondered, "Was it staged?"

[Mara] Police questioned Barry for a total of 30 hours.

He initially told them his marriage to Suzanne was perfect,

but the evidence told a different story.

Did Barry and Suzanne get along pretty well?

[man] I think they've had some problems.

[officer] Have they, like, talked about separating

-or anything like that? -[man] They have. Yeah.

[Mara] These text conversations with Suzanne's best friend

signaled her frustrations.

And then, this message about wanting out

which she sent to Barry four days before she disappeared.

Investigators believe her husband snapped.

They had no body to prove it,

but they did have a puzzling set of clues like this broken doorframe

and a bullet found on the floor in their bedroom.

And this needle cap found in the dryer with Suzanne's DNA

that matched the tranquilizer darts Barry used to go hunting.

Then there's surveillance footage

of Barry placing white trash bags

into several dumpsters around Broomfield

where he travelled the day Suzanne disappeared.

Today marks a major milestone in this investigation

of Suzanne Morphew's disappearance.

[Mara] A year into the investigation,

detectives arrested Barry

and charged him with first-degree murder

and several other crimes.

But prosecutors dropped the charges in 2022,

deciding instead to wait for more evidence.

The charges were dismissed without prejudice,

meaning they can charge Barry again.

Nancy, that brings us to the discovery of Suzanne's remains

buried in a remote area about 45 miles from where she lived,

far away from where her belongings were retrieved.

An important point to make,

none of the evidence that has been found or revealed

places Barry Morphew near where Suzanne Morphew's remains were found.

And, Nancy, we're still waiting to hear

how investigators believe that she died.

Yeah, well, the first thing I want to do

is ask you, Mara S. Campo.

You said you think the shocking thing

is that they found her skeletonized remains

when they were actually looking for somebody else.

You're not shocked by a skeletonized body

that has been torn apart by animals?

That doesn't shock you? Because it shocks me.

Yeah, that's absolutely shocking.

There's a lot of shocking parts

about this case.

And the fact that the remains were found three years later

when they were looking for someone else

is now a compelling part of this narrative.

They have found bodies out there,

but there was also missing people from that area as well.

So they're winding if it's

-a possible serial killer connection. -Well, now that you've

-piped up, Derrick Levasseur. -Here I am.

-PI, private investigator, let me throw you a question. -Hit me with it.

The other people, let me ask you about

their relationships and their marriage.

You know, Suzanne Morphew had stated to her friend in text,

and I've read them very carefully,

that she was afraid to be alone with her husband.

He comes home that day from work,

and she's sending her boyfriend

pictures of her sunbathing in her swimsuit.

-Right. -Then, suddenly,

he puts his phone on airplane mode.

Question. Is your phone on airplane mode right now? Because mine's not.

How often during the day do you put your phone

-on airplane mode? -[stutters]

-[Nancy] Never! -Yeah. Maybe do not disturb.

-Unless you're on an airplane. -But not airplane mode. Exactly. Yeah.

Okay. But I want to get back to her body.

Mara Campo, again, the body was torn apart by animals.

You said it was buried in a shallow grave.

And you're right, it was at one time.

So, obviously, she didn't commit suicide.

Now, some people are claiming we don't even know if a crime occurred.

Why do you think she's buried out by the Great Sand Dunes?

Yeah, one of the big problems that investigators have had up to this point

is that they didn't have a body,

so they're trying to put this case together without a body.

And without a body, they didn't even have a cause of death.

So now that they have these remains,

presumably it will give them a lot more information to work with.

It could reveal how she died.

There could be other evidence there, like her clothing

-which will contain DNA -[Nancy] Oh, yes, Mara.

-from a potential suspect or a killer. -[Nancy] You're so right.

[Mara] So now I think this is a really big break for them

to get more evidence that they have been missing.

[Derrick] That's why it's so big

that they dismissed the charges without prejudice

because this is the smoking gun they were waiting for.

They were hoping to have a body.

And like Mara said,

now you have the potential to look at what she was wearing.

Was she in bike clothes? That's the theory, right?

-That she was riding a bike. -Was she still in her pajamas?

-Was she still in pajamas? -That's what Morphew said she was last wearing

when he got up at, what, 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning

to go to a hastily arranged out-of-town trip.

Can I, okay, I know you've got children.

-Mmm-hmm. -It would really hurt my feelings

if my husband and my children left on Mother's Day.

But that's just me, okay?

Everybody gone.

He leaves at, what, 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning

for, again, a hastily thrown-together business trip and leaves town.

And from what we learned, he's calling, putting together a crew

on the way to out of town.

Another curious thing.

Remind me to go back to the condition of the bones, Mara.

Is it true, Derrick Levasseur, that he threw out trash...

[laughs] I love this part so much.

He threw out trash at five different dumpsters

and he's caught on video.

I mean, I pray to heaven my husband takes out the trash

-once a week. -[Derrick chuckles]

Five times, one day. Amazing, right?

Don't you want your husband to do that?

-Yeah, we saw the... -Do you take out the trash

-five times in one day? -No. No, I do not.

But we also saw this in another case.

Remember Jennifer Dulos?

-We saw a similar situation. -Oh, don't even say Fotis Dulos around me.

Fotis Dulos,

-a similar situation where... -Or his mistress.

Or his mistress.

-So it's not a common thing. -Bloody clothes

-he was throwing out. -Well, it's not

only the trash.

It's the darts that were found around the property.

-It's the GPS coordinates. It's all of it. -[Nancy] Can we focus

-on the trash just one minute? -[Derrick] Yeah.

The day she, Suzanne Morphew, goes missing...

And again, no one has been convicted.

Everyone is perfectly innocent right now.

That day he goes out of town first thing in the morning.

And, wait a minute, we left something out.

He decides that day to chase a herd of elk,

according to his nav system in his phone system.

And, whoa, right in with that herd of elk is there is her bike helmet.

Isn't that quite the coinkydink?

Well, and...

As an investigator, one thing you can do.

Obviously, looking through a vacuum,

looking at it through a microscope here,

you have a situation where, on the surface,

the behavior looks troubling,

it looks suspicious at minimum, right?

But as an investigator, I would bring him in.

I would ask him right out,

"This doesn't seem normal to me.

Is this something you normally did?"

If he says, "Yes," which you would

-assume he would... -You better ask the jury that.

Well, if he did,

then I'm gonna go back and look at GPS coordinates

and I'm gonna look at previous surveillance

to try to see if he's ever done this before.

-And if he hasn't, -Oh.

-his own statements could come back to bite him. -That's smart.

That's really smart.

So, first of all, he goes looking at elk

at, what, 3 o'clock in the morning, 4 o'clock in the morning

on his out-of-town trip on Mother's Day.

And then he throws out five bags of trash at diff...

Were they different dumpsters or one dumpster?

No, it was different dumpsters

-he'd gone around. -[Derrick] Yep, yep.

[Derrick] Small white bags in different dumpsters, yeah.

-Multiple locations. -[Nancy] Please let me try this case.

And again, nobody has been indicted or formally charged yet.

Although, Mara, he was charged early on,

and all charges were dropped, were they not?

[Mara] Yes, and I think that that speaks

to how weak this case has been up until this point.

-It is all circumstantial evidence. -[Nancy] I know.

Now, that, well, I'll explain to you why I feel that way.

It may change now that they have the remains.

But up until this point, investigators didn't even have a cohesive theory

of how Suzanne Morphew was killed.

And all the evidence that they had

suggesting that Barry did it was circumstantial.

And some of it, frankly, was laughable.

And I'll tell you one example

that made me actually laugh out loud.

They said that the fact that Barry said

that she was snoring when he left the house

was evidence, potentially,

that she had been tranquilized.

So their own evidence is very, very weak

and the case they've put together is weak,

but, as I noted, that could change

now that they have more evidence.

And the fact that they gave themselves more time

by dropping the charges without prejudice so they can retry again

-I think is going to help with a conviction. -Okay, Mara.

When we get back I want to talk about why they dropped the case

because I understood it's because the State

didn't hand over evidence in a timely manner for trial.

But that's a fun thing to fight with you about, Mara S. Campo.

Mara and Derrick, stay right there.

We've all heard no body, no case.

But now that missing mom Suzanne Morphew's remains

have been found,

what, if anything,

does that mean for the man arrested in her disappearance

then set free,

Suzanne Morphew's husband Barry Morphew?

And YouTuber mom Ruby Franke

and her business partner Jodi Hildebrandt

accused of child abuse.

Hildebrandt's niece joins us with her own horror stories.

October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month.

ID is partnering with No More

to bring attention to domestic violence victims

and to tell you how to get involved.

To learn more about how you can help and contribute,

go to noexcuseforabuse.com.

Welcome back.

Suzanne Morphew's remains found torn apart by animals

in a remote region 45 miles from the Morphew home.

Tonight, we wait for autopsy results.

What was the COD, cause of death?

Two of the experts joining us.

Peter Valentin, a forensic scientist

and Connecticut State Police detective

with the Major Crime Squad investigating homicides.

And, of course, Mara and Derrick with us.

Peter, thank you for being with us.

What, if anything is your takeaway

from the discovery of Morphew's remains

skeletonized as they are?

So it presents with a... with a number of challenges

because the first thing would be to try to assess well, how long have the--

remains been on scene?

Uh, you know, if, uh,

her remains were placed there soon after she went missing,

then the expectation is that

these remains would be generally skeletonized

with not much in the way of physical evidence left.

However, if there is a disconnect

or if there is a discrepancy between the condition of her remains

and how long she is presumed to have been there,

we can, uh, we can anticipate or consider the possibility

that there's a secondary scene someplace.

Oh, please.

This is at least a secondary or tertiary crime scene.

No way did this woman get dragged out

forty five miles away from home

past the Great Sand Dunes to be killed.

Whatever happened happened closer to where her bike was,

or where her helmet was.

And I'm not sure it was even there.

But hey, while I've got you, Peter Valentin,

I wanna talk about the condition of her skeleton.

I think the only way--

and of course, I'm the lawyer.

I'm not a forensic expert like you.

But isn't it true

that the only way to determine if she were shot or stabbed

is if we see something like a tool mark?

A mark left by a knife or a bullet

on one of her bones.

Of course, if her hyoid is still there,

which, it's probably not,

uh, we may see a fracture or break in that.

But that's gonna be hard.

And so the absence of skeletal trauma

makes it very difficult for you

to come up with a manner of death as being homicide.

Now you can presume that because her remains are there,

that something happened.

I don't think there's any disagreement about that.

But the idea of what is it specifically that happened

is gonna be very difficult.

[Nancy] Wait a minute, Valentin.

The more...

Hold on, sir.

You said it's very obvious that "something happened".

We know something happened.

Are you saying it's obvious there was a homicide?

Because some people are actually saying,

"Hey, we don't even know if a crime occurred."

Was she dropped off dead,

have a stroke out in the middle of a-- a sand dune?

So I think we have to separate like,

what do we feel as investigators,

is what do we feel as, you know,

general people who consume this information.

And what can I approve in a court of law?

So in order to charge somebody with murder,

I first need to demonstrate that first, somebody's dead,

which is the difficulty in a no body homicide.

And then second, that that person died at the hands of another,

a homicide.

Absent those two pieces of information,

this case is extraordinarily difficult to proceed with.

-Mara? -[Mara] Yeah, uh, Peter,

a question for you about the remains.

If there were clothing that were there with her,

is there any usable information

that would have potentially survived that environment,

being out in the wildlife?

[Peter] Potentially.

And so the thing that I'd be looking for

if the clothes, uh, were still in a condition that they could be examined

would be tool marks, uh, incisions, cut marks,

uh, circular or elliptical holes

that might have gunshot residue on them

or be suggestive of bullet strikes.

Um, and in--

Whether or not they are consistent

with the clothing that she was last reported to be wearing.

Uh, but three years in a remote area like that

would probably render most clothes

difficult to examine conclusively.

[Nancy] Guys, I think-- We're like the ostrich,

with our head in the sand and our butts in the air.

Because are-- are-- is anybody seriously saying, [chuckles softly]

that she died of accidental or natural causes?

And then instead of calling 911 like,

"Oh, no, my-- my neighbor just choked on a porkchop.

And-- I need 911 right now."

Nobody called 911.

No one notified husband or children, nothing.

They just went, "Oh, she's dead.

Let me go bury her out past the Sand Dunes."

I mean, really, let's look at this realistically speaking.

Well, that-- that's why I wanted to ask Peter,

because we may not be able to determine how she was killed.

But we have a-- an idea of if she was attacked or not.

And Peter, I wanted to ask you,

I know we're talking about the clothes.

We also know that Barry had scratches on his arm.

Right? They took photos of that.

And I'm wondering based on the conditions of the,

the desert where she was found,

let's presume she was there this-- this entire time.

Would they still be able to find DNA

under her fingernails at this point?

Because if they can,

one, it could obviously link back to Barry or someone else,

or more so, it might line up the-- the injuries that he-- were--

-he was found with at the time of the incident. -[Nancy] Mmm-hmm.

So, yes, while DNA is obviously, a very critical--

Well, it is a critical piece of evidence,

the challenge that you have in this particular case,

is simply finding the husband's DNA on the wife

does not prove anything,

even when it comes from a biological fluid.

because you would expect that because they live together,

there would be this transferred DNA between both the husband and the wife.

[Nancy] But under the fingernails, Peter?

-Uh, that's an inference... -[Derrick] Yeah.

...that would need to be drawn from where the DNA is found

and how much of it is there,

if you can even save that much about it, so.

It's not quite as simple as-- as simply discovering DNA

and then connecting it to the husband.

Hey, Peter, a question to you.

I think the-- the bigger challenge is the, uh...

[Nancy] Do fingernails-- Do fingernails still exist after three years?

Oh, gosh, it's hard for me to look at her.

Look how beautiful she is.

Apparently, a-- a loving wonderful Mom.

Um, do fingernails still exist after three years?

[Peter] I would expect them to survive.

Whether or not the material underneath them would be, uh,

still viable for the recovery of DNA

- is another matter entirely. -[Derrick] That's-- That's my concern.

-[Nancy] Go for it, Mara. - [Mara] And-- and what about

[Mara] the things like blood or hairs?

If-- If that--

Would that survive the elements in a way that is usable?

[Peter] Certainly, hair would.

Hair is a very persistent evidence.

Uh, blood, potentially.

If it's in the clothing

or if it's, uh, soaked into the clothing.

The other thing that considers--

The absence of blood underneath where her body is recovered

is another piece of information

that would be suggestive of a secondary crime scene.

[Nancy] Peter, I got a quick question for you.

When you make an analysis of the--

like a discovery of a body like this,

do you look at it in a vacuum,

or do you take in extrinsic evidence?

Like, uh, very quickly after her disappearance,

her husband moved all of her money into his accounts

and sold their family home.

I think it was back in Indiana.

And even decided to vote for her.

Uh, I mean, isn't that election fraud or voter fraud?

That said, if you expected your wife to walk back in the door,

like Scott Peterson immediately ordered the porn channel.

He knew Laci wasn't coming home.

But do you look at extrinsic evidence like that

when you come up with your idea, your analysis?

So I can-- I have this--

We can certainly recognize

that the husband is the prime suspect

in almost any situation like this.

And that is one of the scenarios

that we'd be evaluating as investigators.

But I also have to consider what if it isn't him?

What if there's another scenario

that is sort of lurking in the details,

but we're not looking at it

because we're so laser-focused on the-- on the husband?

So, you know, it--

in case like that, if it is the husband,

is that much stronger?

Because as an investigator

what I did was I disproved the other scenario

that would've been raised by the defense.

And so I don't wanna go just in one direction,

and say, "This is who I think it is,

Let me amass all the information

to show that I'm right,

but let me also consider the absence of evidence

to show that somebody else was involved."

-Well, you're totally right, Peter Valentine... -So I'm trying to do--

-...again. -Right.

And again, no one has been named.

A POI, person of interest, suspect,

or defendant in this case.

Peter Valentin, thank you.

Mara and Derrick, stay right here.

Famous YouTuber Franke,

Ruby Franke doles out tough love parenting

to over two million followers who watch her show.

But after her own children found starving

and bound with duct-taped,

Franke actually blames, who else?

The children themselves.

Making all sorts of claims about sex abuse, even porn.

How can a three-year-old child be addicted to porn?

And later, after all these years,

an arrest in the cold blooded murder of Tupac Shakur.

Welcome back. I'm Nancy Grace.

YouTube star Ruby Franke

parades her children for the world to see.

The picture perfect image of the perfect family.

Until her youngest boy and girl ages 10 and 12,

found bound, wounded, malnourished,

a sick story of alleged abuse.

This is the case of Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt,

the YouTube Mom and her business partner.

Are they also partners in child abuse?

Mara, what happened?

Well, Nancy, Ruby Franke,

along with her business partner Jodi Hildebrandt,

have been charged with six counts of felony child abuse,

against the very kids she documented online

in a popular vlog.

And it all stems from a gut-wrenching 911 call.

[Nancy] A neighbor brought to tears

after Ruby Franke's 12-year-old son Russell

ran to his house from Jodi Hildebrandt's home.

What was it he saw that made him cry?

Russell was bound by duct tape,

emaciated and with open wounds.

Investigators later found another child

ten-year-old Eve in the same sad state of malnourishment.

Ruby Franke showed off her children

on her YouTube channel.

Her video vlog was called "8 Passengers",

where she showcased her life

with her husband Kevin and six kids.

The show took a candid look

into the Mormon family's home life

in Springville, Utah.

Soon after its debut in 2015,

Franke had viewers hooked with her commanding presence over the household,

and her unique parenting style.

[Franke] Everyone in the car. Go, go, go, go, go.

Where's your coat?

[Nancy] She filmed nearly everything they did together,

and her audience grew to more than two million subscribers.

My kids never go to bed on time.

Go to bed.

[Nancy] But was her happy home even happy at all?

Viewers started raising red flags about Franke's parenting.

If you cut one more thing in my house,

I'm going to take the scissors, look at me,

and I'm going to cut its head off.

-[exclaims] -I'm gonna be so mad.

-[sobs] - [Nancy] They got so worried that in 2020,

viewers started an online petition

to have Child Protective Services intervene.

They cited aggressive actions by Franke against her kids,

including taking away oldest son Chad's bed

for seven months.

My bedroom was taken away from me...

[laughs] I don't think our viewers know that.

-I was sleeping on a beanbag since October. -[laughs]

[Nancy] And letting six-year-old Eve go hungry at school.

I know that her teacher is uncomfortable

with her being hungry and not having a lunch.

Eve is responsible for making her lunches in the morning.

She's just going to need to be hungry.

[Nancy] By 2022, the backlash had grown so strong that Franke

ended the show while still defending her actions.

It was around this time in the summer of 2022

that Franke teamed up with another Mormon mom,

Jodi Hildebrandt, to join her therapy podcast, Connections.

You wonder where I've been on my vlogs.

You wonder why I left YouTube.

[voice breaking] It's to save my kids.

And I'm telling you, I was making millions.

And I left it.

[Nancy] This partnership is important because

as we know it was from Hildebrandt's residence

that Russell escaped and where some of the alleged abuse took place.

Hildebrandt has been in hot water in the past including

a license suspension in 2012 over

her controversial therapy style.

Former clients have claimed that Hildebrand

encouraged them to cut themselves off

from loved ones, separating spouses

and ruining their relationships.

So now what?

Franke and Hilda Brand are now in jail awaiting

hearings on their six counts of felony child abuse,

while the four Franke children who are still minors

have been placed in protective custody.

-Nancy? -Okay, stop everything.

Where's the father?

Where's he in all this scenario?

When the children are being duct-taped and starved?

Listen, do you remember the House of Horrors in California?

The Turpin family, when they were all being starved,

they had that one.

A teen girl crawled out a window

to get help to save her siblings.

Same thing going on here.

So where's the father in all this?

Yeah, I have a major issue with it.

Kevin Franke, it's one of those things, as a father myself,

we're in a situation where ignorance

is not an excuse, right?

The fact that he didn't even know Jody was living

in the home bothers me.

He clearly wasn't talking to his kids enough.

I don't know if he's criminally liable at this point.

I know he hasn't been charged.

But at minimum, he should have been more involved,

and he should have known this was going on.

Exactly to that point when they were arrested,

Franke's sisters came out and said it was time for this to happen.

-This should have happened. They've been saying it's time -Yeah.

for this to happen.

Well, why didn't they call 911?

But here's my question, how did the sisters know that

these children were being abused

-and the husband didn't so... -The father was living somewhere else.

-He was living somewhere-- -He was living there for 13 months,

-but Nancy this abuse has been going on alleged. -I--

You're preaching to the choir right now.

I'm on board with this.

There was incidents of before he moved out.

There were things that were going on while he was living there.

So he knew what Ruby was doing even beforehand.

Excuse me.

Can we first talk about the person that's actually

charged in this case, Ruby Franke?

-Yep. -Because I've got a problem.

She said, not letting my daughter have lunch,

she's six years old,

may make her teacher uncomfortable.

It made me uncomfortable just watching her say that.

And another thing, did you hear the 911 call or the neighbor?

A grown man

started crying when he saw the lacerations

and bruises on the little boy's body.

And did you hear Ruby Franke say, "I gave up my show

because I did it for the children?"

I think she did it because she had CPS,

Child Protective Services, about three inches up her tailpipe.

What about that?

Well, and this is someone who practically bragged about

withholding food from her children.

She would say things like, my children are literally starving.

I'm going to withhold the privilege of having dinner.

Let me let me let that sink in. She said what?

She talked about... She said that her two sons

were losing, "The privilege to eat dinner

if they did not stop wrestling."

In another video, she said, "My kids are literally starving.

I'm not going to let you eat breakfast until you get

your chores done." So these were things

-that... -Is that supposed to be a good thing, Mara?

-used as parenting tactics-- -You have children.

I chased mine around trying to get them to eat.

I cannot imagine punishing your child by withholding food.

Hey, hey, when I was prosecuting child abuse cases,

did you know that's really common to basically starve

your children, withhold food?

That's a real thing.

Nancy, you mentioned CPS.

That's another concern I have here.

There was an opportunity for law enforcement

to intervene a year ago, September of 2022.

-You're right, Derrick. -They showed up.

They were called. The kids were in the window.

They couldn't get in contact with the parents,

and yet they didn't enter the house.

They allowed CPS to get involved,

and they kicked the can down the road.

So we shouldn't even be here right now.

Mara and Derrick, don't move.

When we come back, Jodi Hildebrandt's ex-client speaks out

with details about how manipulative she was.

YouTube mom Ruby Franke's business partner,

Jodi Hildebrandt.

What is her role in the alleged abuse

of Ruby Franke's children?

Did she ratchet up the tough love take just for ratings?

With us now, Hildebrandt's niece, Jessi Hildebrandt.

And with us, a former client of

Jodi Hildebrandt, ex-client,

Adam Steed.

To Jessi and Adam, thank you for being with us.

Jessi, I don't understand how you,

you're Jodi Hildebrandt's niece,

-Yeah. -but how in the hay did you end up

living with her against your will?

Yeah, I mean, it's complicated,

but I was left there when I was 16 years old. Um...

And within the culture that I come from,

my behaviors were seen as, you know,

rebellious and erratic, but really they were just normal.

Well, you don't seem erratic to me, so let me understand.

-Your mother and father left you... -With Jodi.

-Yes. -With your aunt.

Yes.

Jodi Hildebrandt, so she could what?

-Toughen you up and make you behave, -Yeah.

disciplining you to be what they wanted you to be?

Um, well, it's even more complicated than that

because in this culture, it's more my eternal soul.

My salvation was on the line.

I needed to be saved.

And when you put God and religion into

these types of abuse tactics,

they become incredibly convincing

and incredibly controlling.

That's why abusers seek out these disempowered systems,

because there's loopholes everywhere for them.

What did you endure living with Jodi Hildebrandt,

now charged in child abuse? Wait, wait, wait.

What was your first reaction

when you found out your aunt,

who according to you, abused you for years,

was finally charged?

Yeah, it was just under a year.

It was, I mean, my reaction was just complete

and utter shock.

I almost fell over. I was just, luckily, my roommate

was there. I was in the middle of moving, like,

filling my U-Haul as I moved from L.A.

to Seattle, and I just, I couldn't reconcile it.

It was after nearly 15 years

of something being so minimized and so invalidated,

and then to have it suddenly be...

public, you know, national news,

it's, I still, I'm like, to reconcile those,

that separation is really complex and confusing.

Do you feel validated that now there are formal claims,

although they weren't made in time to help you?

Yeah, I mean, I did go to the police when I was 16.

-Yeah. Yeah. -16, ran away, and got found.

-You went to a shelter, right? -I did, yes.

Got found, got dragged back.

Well, I bet that was a happy reunion.

Yeah.

What were some of the... you mentioned abuse.

I mean, I was accused of being a sex addict.

I was accused of, I was accused of

just being an addict in general.

I was forced to do 12-step. I was...

-But you had never had sex at the time. -No, no.

I didn't even, no.

And I was, I was also duct taped.

I wasn't allowed to speak.

When you, whoa, whoa, wait, wait.

Please don't just...

gloss over... You were duct taped.

What?

So, she had-- The thing that Jodi does

is that she first strips you of identity,

then she strips you of validity,

so then all of a sudden everything that you say

is no longer true or valid.

She isolates you, and then she has you believe

that you did it to yourself and that you are deserving

-of these punishments. -Back to the duct tape.

So yeah, she was, I was convinced that I was,

or she would tell me over and over and over again

that I was a masterful manipulator, that every word

that came out of my mouth was a lie.

And so the duct tape in her words was

a physical manifestation and reminder that I'm a compulsive liar.

-[Nancy] She put duct tape over your mouth? -Yes.

[Derrick] What happened when you went to the police?

-How-- You were 16, you said. -I was 16 I had run away

to a neighbor's house and then to the police

and it was...

[sighs] The power that a narcissist...

if not a sociopath of Jodi.

The power that they have is, it's so hard to explain

to people.

But when I went to the police, I was first interviewing or talking to a cop,

and they were right there with me.

They showed so much empathy and so much kindness.

But I was also so terrified that

I was going to be, because she had convinced me that

I just destroy everyone's life.

She would tell me this over and over and over again,

that you just destroy everyone's life,

you destroy everything that you touch.

And so when I did go to the police,

I was so afraid that I was just going to ruin her life,

because I had been convinced that I was deserving of this.

Can I ask you, did you have food withheld?

Did you have food withheld? Were you ever...

-I was... -Beaten, left alone, isolated.

I had moments, like there were a couple moments

of being punched in the back.

There was, I was duct taped, I was tied, I was thrown into a car,

I was blindfolded, I was drove into the mountains.

And what she does, her rationale,

these are her words, she wanted

to make my life so uncomfortable

that it would force the sin out.

Because she operates from this idea that the reason

why you are struggling, the reason why you have

these neuroses, the reasons why you have mental health issues

is because of sin.

Joining us right now, one of Jodi Hildebrandt's

former clients, Adam Steed.

Adam, thank you for being with us.

What was your connection with Jodi Hildebrandt?

My Mormon bishop sent me to her.

It was horrific.

She is a mastermind.

She is super, super dangerous.

It was the single most worst decision

I ever made in my life.

And once I was in, I couldn't get away.

Let me ask you this, Adam.

I understand you went to her at the advice

of one of the Mormon bishops, but she ended up

treating you for porn addiction or sex addiction,

but that wasn't your problem.

Yeah, it was a, it was a deceptive entrance

and, uh, she just like,

put her abstract models,

it was like on top of us,

just rubber stamping us, didn't know anything about

the people in the group.

She just talked and talked and talked

and brought these abstracts into place.

It didn't, in the beginning it was real inviting

and she was funny and she used these little models

on small things and made lots of jokes

and so it was really deceptive.

I understand that you believe Jodi Hildebrandt

nearly ruined your life.

How much money did she make off your family in fees?

Oh, it was like multiple times what rent costs.

You know, I was just a 26, seven-year-old college student,

and I was paying more money to Jodi Hildebrandt

than I was for college for my family.

[Nancy] I still don't understand how porn or sex addiction

got into your treatment or your counseling.

Well, to understand Jodi Hildebrandt,

you've got to understand the Mormon faith crisis.

You know, when the internet came out,

the bishop started sending everyone

who had ever looked at pornography to therapists.

I mean, literally like a million people

were going to therapists.

And in the midst of this, Jodi Hildebrandt evolves

from like somebody who loves money and power so much that

she doesn't just do like sensitive

back-to-back therapy like every normal therapist would.

She's like creates this multi-level marketing company thing

where she's literally taking clients

and turning them into lieutenants for her

and using them to punish the rest of the people in the group.

She's using pure pressure.

She weaponizes the other clients.

Hey, Adam, were you surprised when you heard about these charges?

Felony charges?

Uh...

When I first heard about those felony charges, I was...

Well, I think normally people would be really surprised.

I wasn't surprised at all.

Completely expected it.

Wow, that says a lot to me.

Jessi Hildebrandt and Adam Steed,

to both of you, thank you for sharing your insight on

what's happening right now in this felony case.

Mara and Derrick staying right here.

The murder of music icon Tupac Shakur

was a cold-blooded hit in the last days.

Police arrest the man they say pull the trigger.

Was Tupac murdered in Vegas?

Hundreds of people standing around.

Nobody saw a thing?

No way.

But did cops really have to wait till the killer publicly brags about

the murder to finally make an arrest?

Welcome back.

The murder of Tupac Shakur spun out hundreds of

conspiracy theories, but now, finally, an arrest.

In the last days, Vegas cops bust Duane "Keefe D" Davis

in the murder of music legend Tupac Shakur.

Davis, the strong-arm leader of the Southside Compton Crips,

finally in the cops' crosshairs.

He publicly brags about the murder

in his tell-all biography.

Really?

This guy writes a tell-all memoir?

Well, he told a little bit too much.

I'm sure his defense attorneys think.

He felt so confident in this immunity deal of sorts

that he had reached with prosecutors about

something else that he thought he could tell all

the details about what happened with Tupac.

So in his 2019 memoir, he details

what happened that night. And here's some of what he says.

-I'm just so happy. -It's unbelievable to me.

He says that he was the one who got the gun to kill Tupac.

He ordered this hit because he was the general,

the five-star general, if you will, of this faction.

And he stalked him and they looked for him.

And he says, quote, "For us, Vegas was another day

at the office, nothing more than collateral damage.

Tupac chose the wrong game to play."

referring to the fight at the MGM Grand.

[Derrick] He definitely felt too comfortable

with the proffer agreement.

He went in there thinking, hey, as long

as I speak to them, I'm untouchable.

And as he kept talking and talking,

probably some of the things he said

turned out not to be true based on what they found,

which opened him up again.

I think even one detective said he walked himself

into jail with this one.

So long story short, Keefe D

had an immunity agreement on another case

and he thought that was blanket immunity.

He could say whatever he wanted to,

including confessing to murdering Tupac.

What I don't get, you want to tell me in Vegas,

I mean you guys have been to Vegas,

you can't swing a stick and not hit somebody in the head.

All these people standing around, he gets murdered

in public and nobody saw a thing?

But we also cannot minimize, Nancy,

that Las Vegas police, I mean, you're gonna have

to explain to me how they were not able to put two and two together.

[Nancy] Oh, it's the police's fault.

But I'll explain to you why, because initially,

they completely discounted the shooting

having any connection to the fight at the MGM Grand,

when in reality, that was the cause.

That fight was a violation of street code that was

so severe that they then felt they had to retaliate that night.

Las Vegas police missed that,

and they didn't have any sources

in the Los Angeles gang community.

-Yeah. -They were not equipped to handle this investigation.

So, are you attempting to argue that was some

sort of provocation, the fight at the MGM?

'Cause provocation under the law has to be instantaneous.

You can't get mad and you and I have a fight,

then tomorrow I come shoot you down while

you're getting in your car.

That's called a cooling off period. That is--

-That is not going to work. -You didn't make it--

Mara's not making a defense for it.

She's basically saying, hey, police should have put

two and two together here.

-You're right. -You have a flight.

Orlando Anderson gets beat up by Death Row Records members.

They carry it out later that night.

They say, listen, that's not going, you know, unresponded to.

They head out there.

But the problem with the police is,

yeah, they might know the individuals in the car,

but they have to put the gun in someone's hands.

And at that point, they didn't know that.

-So you can have three people. -Did Suge Knight know?

I mean, I've known for 10 years

-that Suge Knight knew. -The thing about Tupac...

Tupac was shot. He was on the ground.

First responders were there asking him who shot him,

and I can't say it on TV, but he responded in a way

with some profanity,

basically telling them, I'm not saying anything.

That's just the code.

Even in the moment where he probably felt like

he was going to die, he wasn't willing to snitch on someone.

Nancy, there are two people alive today

who were alive then who know what happened.

Suge Knight

-and "Keefe D" Davis. -Absolutely.

And neither one of them, Suge Knight has not said

a word about what happened,

and Davis confessed in this book after

he believed that he had immunity.

But here's another thing that people forget.

Suge and Davis, they were known to each other.

They grew up together.

They played football together when they were nine years old.

So Suge knows exactly what happened that night

-and who was involved. - [Nancy] You know what I don't want, Mara?

What I don't want, Derrick?

I don't want, because time has passed since Tupac Shakur

was gunned down, that they take a cheap deal

and it just goes away.

They've already failed Tupac Shakur

and his family once, and I want justice for him.

It's been a long time coming.

-Mmm. -Yeah, no, I absolutely agree.

You know, a lot of family members have passed away

without having an opportunity to get justice.

And again, this is not something that should have taken

almost 30 years to solve.

This was, if it had taken place in Los Angeles,

I would argue that with an understanding of

the gang culture and with the right sources,

they would have been able to put this to bed a long time ago.

Mara, Derrick, thank you so much for being here tonight

on Crime Feed, where every single week,

we bring you the breaking crime

and justice news from across our great country.

In the coming weeks, we will focus on

the biggest bombshells on some of

the biggest crime stories in the headlines,

and many you haven't even heard about yet.

I'll see you next week.

Good night, friend.