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The U.S.
Patent system lets you patent a thing
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and then sue anyone that does that thing.
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But what if you could patent anything.
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I literally could not defend myself.
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I didn't have the money.
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So I heard numbers between
4 to 500,000, all the way to a
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million dollars for a defense,
which may or may not succeed.
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This is a game that big companies play
because they know they can outspend you.
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I think that they misunderstood
the language of their own patent.
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So it doesn't matter if
you're right, it matters
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if you have enough
money to defend yourself.
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I ran out of money, I couldn't
fight this case anymore.
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And the problem is, if you walk away, uh,
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they win by what's
called default judgment.
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All...
it's all consuming, it's all you can
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think about, there is
unknown downsided play.
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You could lose everything.
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Their lawyers actually
threw a fit and told
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us they were going to
destroy our business,
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and destroy everything we
had worked so hard to build.
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It's like being accused of
a crime you didn't commit,
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and not having any way to...
To argue that.
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So they actually, uh, will
win and can take your code
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and can take whatever assets your company
has if you decide to not fight anymore.
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I assumed they made a mistake because
nobody can own the patent on a hyperlink,
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that's just common
technology used on the web.
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The plaintiff added my
name personally to the suit.
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So by continuing to distribute
my app, I can ultimately go to jail.
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That's what I was afraid of.
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You're basically are guilty
until you're proven innocent.
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It... it consumed me, 100%.
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Literally, zero ideas came out of
these patents that were of any...
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It was the demise of my company.
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It could be money flushed down the
drain because you're going to lose...
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You are stuck in a lawsuit, not of your
own making, you did not do anything wrong.
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I lost my house as well.
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I have no idea who's financing
the lawsuit that I got dragged into.
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The demand letter that says you have three
days to pay or shut down your business.
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That was a very scary moment, I felt
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I realized really quickly,
talking to other business owners
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that this wasn't an isolated case.
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People try to extort us, again and...
It was my best option.
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I didn't have an option.
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You can't get out, you have
to pay this guy to go away.
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If you...
if you don't have the resources,
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to defend yourself the
facts from your side could
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potentially never be heard
and you could lose everything.
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And that's the way it is.
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Technically what we do...
that was so bad that I would say,
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"we bought a $200
scanner from office depot,
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and put it on our
network and plugged it in."
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My name is Austin Meyer and I'm a computer
programmer, aerospace engineer, and pilot.
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As well, I wrote a computer
program called x-plane.
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X-plane is a flight simulator
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that lets pilots practice flying on
their personal computers at home
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so they can then fly their
real airplane more safely.
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As well, people that aren't pilots at
all enjoy flying x-plane because they
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get to enjoy all the thrill of flying
without all the cost and the risk.
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About five or six years ago, I
made a special version of x-plane
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for the Google android operating system.
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Just like any app developer would, I
uploaded my app to the Google store
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so anybody that wanted to
could download it and fly it.
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They did.
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Some time went by and then it happened:
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I was working at a trade show in
Wisconsin when I got a call from a lawyer.
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He told me that I was being
sued for patent infringement
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for putting an app on
the Google play store.
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Who was suing me?
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Google?
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Well,
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Actually not.
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I was being sued by a
company called Uniloc.
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This is a company I had
never even heard of before.
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Uniloc claimed to own a patent
that described the idea of
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looking up a name on a list on a computer.
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And since the Google store
apparently looks up your name on a list
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on a computer, to see if you paid
for the app that you're launching,
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Uniloc claimed to own the idea
of how the Google store works.
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And because of this, they were suing
myself, and a lot of other people too,
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simply for using the Google
store to distribute our apps.
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Now, Uniloc had nothing to do
with the creation of the Google store.
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Uniloc had nothing to do
with the creation of x-plane.
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I never even heard of them before.
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But none of that mattered.
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They were suing me and many other people,
simply for using the Google play store
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to distribute our apps.
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Now, at this point, the question you
should be asking is, what's in the patent?
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Does the patent really
give Uniloc the right
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to sue people for using an online store?
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Well, here it is:
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This, exactly, is the claim in the
patent that Uniloc said we infringed on.
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"Computer code executable on
an electronic device to prevent
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unauthorized access to electronic
data stored on the electronic device."
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That's it.
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That's it.
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These words do not
include any source code,
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that could be of any use to
any computer programmer at all.
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These words do not help me, or Google,
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or anyone else, design, or
even use the Google store.
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These words just say, that if
someone else goes through the trouble
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to actually write a computer program
that prevents unauthorized access to data,
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that whoever has this patent can sue them.
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This isn't an invention,
this isn't a new idea,
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this doesn't contribute one bit of
knowledge to the computer industry.
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It certainly didn't
contribute anything to me.
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It just says that whoever wrote down these
words, can sue anyone that actually makes,
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or in my case uses, an app store.
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Next, I looked at the lawsuit.
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"Uniloc has been damaged as a result
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of defendants infringing
conduct described in this count."
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See, Uniloc claims they've been "damaged"
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by my putting an app on the Google store.
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Uniloc only files lawsuits for a
living, how can they be damaged
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by some guy like me putting a
flight simulator on an online store?
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I tried to figure out how Uniloc was
damaged by looking at their lawsuit,
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but, they never really seemed to
specify exactly how they've been hurt.
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I called a lawyer.
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I told him to have the case just tossed
out because of it's obvious absurdity.
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What the lawyer told me next, sobered me.
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He said that I would
take about three years
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of my life, and $3,000,000
to defend myself...
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and at the end of it
all, I'd be put on trial,
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in front of a jury in the outskirts of
Texas that would decide my punishment,
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for putting an app on the app store.
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I live in South Carolina.
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How could I be put on trial in front
of a jury in the outskirts of Texas,
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for committing the sin of using the
Google store to distribute my app?
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It was at this moment that I realized
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that I'd entered the most
terrifying mess of my life.
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What I'm about to tell you is shocking.
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And I'm inviting you to come with me on
my journey to uncover the patent scam.
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First thing I want to know:
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Who's behind all this?
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I hit the 'net to find out.
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Controversial patent lawsuits?
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What does this company do?
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A dozen lawsuits filed just last week?
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Let's check out their website.
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Hmm.
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Members only.
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Maybe there's something
in their source code.
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Ah, there it is:
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Patent commercializing?
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Reap the rewards.
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Who owns this company?
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The Marathon Patent Group?
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Hmm?
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They're not inventors?
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They just own patents?
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And they're traded on the
Nasdaq stock exchange?
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What's a patent troll?
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So what is a patent troll anyway?
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My first trips were to go talk to
the experts and find out for myself.
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Patent trolling is the practice of
taking patents and using them to sue
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or threaten to sue others.
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It's not then taking
those proceeds, and using
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it to create the next
greatest technology,
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but it is basically building a business
out of suing or threatening to sue.
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Unfortunately, patent trolling has become
a lot more common in the last ten years.
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Uh, last year, patent trolls
sued about 3,600 companies
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and, uh, there were hundreds of patent
trolls active in the federal court system.
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The estimates vary but they
generally come over $10 billion a year.
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The vast vast majority of
plaintiffs are not inventors,
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they're people who have
purchased patents for nothing,
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from bankruptcy estates
of failed companies,
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or... or they've just purchased
patents for very, very little
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and their sole goal is to
make money by suing people.
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It doesn't even matter if the patent
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actually should have
never have been granted,
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the cost of invalidating
a patent is so high that
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defending yourself in a
patent litigation is so high,
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that everyone... Almost everyone
ends up having to write a check.
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"Almost everyone ends
up having to write a check."
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What kind of check are
we talking about here?
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Well, as it turns out, the average
settlement that a person has to pay
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to a patent troll to make the lawsuit
against them stop, is $340,000.
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That's right, the average person is forced
to pay the patent troll $340,000 just
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to end the lawsuit because they don't
have the $3 million to defend themselves.
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When I tell people about my lawsuit,
they always say the same thing:
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They say, "hey, Austin, if
Uniloc says that the Google store
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infringes on their patent, why
don't they just sue Google?"
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Oh, oh, let's think
about that for a moment.
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If they sued Google, I think
Google has $3 million dollars.
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Google can defend itself
and probably, over years, win.
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But, if Uniloc sues as many
people as possible that use Google
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then think of how many people they can sue
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that don't have the $3
million to defend themselves.
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Those companies will be forced to settle.
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Even if they've done nothing wrong.
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And, once it became how obvious it
is to make easy money by filing these
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patent infringement lawsuits people
can't defend themselves against,
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you can pretty much figure
out what happened next.
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Companies like Uniloc were formed.
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Companies that exist
only to file lawsuits.
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Now, here's just how far it can go:
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Uniloc, the company suing me, is
owned by a much larger company called
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the Marathon Patent Group.
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The Marathon Patent Group
does not make anything.
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They don't invent anything.
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They just sue the companies that do.
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And the Marathon Patent Group is
traded on the Nasdaq stock exchange.
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That's right, the
Nasdaq stock exchange was designed
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to foster innovation, and now,
the Nasdaq hosts the Marathon.
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Patent Group, a company
who's only function, is to sue.
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And it's all based on holding a patent.
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So, are these patents brilliant?
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Well, let's take a look at some.
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These are real patents.
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Method of video gaming over the internet.
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Method for voice
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communication with an
entity, such as a plant.
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00:16:03,563 --> 00:16:05,275
Snowboard training apparatus.
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00:16:05,365 --> 00:16:07,565
Animal ear protectors.
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00:16:07,734 --> 00:16:09,679
Forehead support for a urinal.
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00:16:09,769 --> 00:16:12,950
A hose to breathe from a toilet bowl.
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00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,318
A reality alternate method.
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00:16:15,408 --> 00:16:17,554
A domestic animal telephone.
218
00:16:17,644 --> 00:16:20,657
Method to search for
event photos on the internet.
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00:16:20,747 --> 00:16:23,326
Self hair cutting apparatus.
220
00:16:23,416 --> 00:16:25,695
An anti-eating face mask.
221
00:16:25,785 --> 00:16:28,465
Method of swinging sideways on a swing.
222
00:16:28,555 --> 00:16:31,501
Exercising a cat with a laser pointer.
223
00:16:31,591 --> 00:16:34,137
Self-defense weapon key holder.
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00:16:34,227 --> 00:16:37,040
Apparatus to simulate a high-five.
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00:16:37,130 --> 00:16:39,309
Dog knows art apparatus.
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00:16:39,399 --> 00:16:42,545
A bib for use while
operating a motor vehicle.
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00:16:42,635 --> 00:16:45,148
A buttocks kicking apparatus.
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00:16:45,238 --> 00:16:48,138
A stick that a dog can fetch.
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This all seemed just too
crazy for me to actually believe.
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I had to talk to someone
who was experienced in this.
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I found a guy by the
name of Kevin O'Connor.
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Kevin's sold and developed
companies worth billions of dollars.
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00:17:01,254 --> 00:17:03,504
And he was also being
sued by a patent troll.
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00:17:03,594 --> 00:17:07,050
So he knew his way around the block.
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00:17:11,664 --> 00:17:17,147
Kevin was sued simply for making a website
that scans large numbers of product
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and then shows you the
one that's best for your needs.
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So, Kevin, I'm being sued
for patent infringement.
238
00:17:26,879 --> 00:17:27,958
That's too bad.
239
00:17:28,048 --> 00:17:29,159
It is not fun.
240
00:17:29,249 --> 00:17:30,628
Let's hear your story.
241
00:17:30,718 --> 00:17:33,570
So December, 2013, we get
this letter from law firm and
242
00:17:33,660 --> 00:17:36,914
says we're violating their
patent, and they claim to have the
243
00:17:37,004 --> 00:17:40,752
patent that facilitates bilateral,
and multilateral decision-making.
244
00:17:40,842 --> 00:17:42,871
That's been around since caveman days,
245
00:17:42,961 --> 00:17:45,809
it's baffling how anyone
can have a patent on that.
246
00:17:45,899 --> 00:17:48,046
I mean, it's basically decision-making,
247
00:17:48,136 --> 00:17:51,082
uh, dating all the way back
to probably neanderthal days,
248
00:17:51,172 --> 00:17:53,945
uh, people deciding whether
to trade chickens for cows.
249
00:17:54,035 --> 00:17:56,807
I mean, it's...
it's basically how humans interact,
250
00:17:56,897 --> 00:17:58,897
or communities interact with each other.
251
00:17:58,987 --> 00:18:00,357
They had a patent on it.
252
00:18:00,447 --> 00:18:01,862
Okay, so you got the letter.
253
00:18:01,952 --> 00:18:03,263
What did the letter say?
254
00:18:03,353 --> 00:18:07,254
Uh, the letter basically said, uh, they
got this, it's called a demand letter,
255
00:18:07,344 --> 00:18:11,593
they said that, they've got this patent,
uh, they believe we're infringing on it.
256
00:18:11,683 --> 00:18:14,741
Uh, we can settle now, or we
can through prolonged discovery.
257
00:18:14,831 --> 00:18:17,170
Uh, we're going to
have motions in the court,
258
00:18:17,260 --> 00:18:19,544
you're going to have
to incur lawyer fees.
259
00:18:19,634 --> 00:18:23,548
You know, the more this goes on, the
more expensive it's gonna become for you.
260
00:18:23,638 --> 00:18:25,688
Once you got this lawsuit, what'd you do?
261
00:18:25,778 --> 00:18:29,653
I mean, the first thing you do is you...
You research the hell out of it.
262
00:18:29,743 --> 00:18:33,093
You're trying to figure out, you
know, one, is this a valid patent?
263
00:18:33,183 --> 00:18:35,398
-Who's behind it?
-Who else have they sued?
264
00:18:35,488 --> 00:18:39,038
Uh, we did a lot of research, they
kind of picked on the wrong company,
265
00:18:39,128 --> 00:18:42,973
you know, we have one of the largest
knowledge graphs in the world, so...
266
00:18:43,063 --> 00:18:45,847
So we did a lot of research.
And who is behind this?
267
00:18:45,937 --> 00:18:48,721
Who are these lawyers?
Who are these, um, inventors?
268
00:18:48,811 --> 00:18:51,774
-'Inventors' of this patent.
-Uh, and we found a pattern.
269
00:18:51,864 --> 00:18:53,614
We found a very disturbing pattern.
270
00:18:53,704 --> 00:18:56,543
Um, it was basically, there
was these two... Two people,
271
00:18:56,633 --> 00:18:59,262
um, who we believe met
in Harvard Business School,
272
00:18:59,352 --> 00:19:02,532
uh, Eileen Shapiro and Steven...
Steven Metz, um, that had
273
00:19:02,622 --> 00:19:06,272
uh, they were not technologists, but
somehow, mysteriously, they had some
274
00:19:06,362 --> 00:19:09,095
-I think it was maybe ten...
-Uh, technology patents.
275
00:19:09,185 --> 00:19:11,861
You never know who is
behind these shell companies,
276
00:19:11,951 --> 00:19:14,251
and in our case, it was
Lumen View Technology,
277
00:19:14,341 --> 00:19:17,841
and she was behind it, but there
was a series of these shell companies
278
00:19:17,931 --> 00:19:20,537
that were prosecuting
these portfolio patents.
279
00:19:20,627 --> 00:19:22,627
Uh, and they were very, very aggressive.
280
00:19:22,717 --> 00:19:25,535
Once we learned all that, I was pissed.
I was so pissed.
281
00:19:25,625 --> 00:19:28,745
Uh, I knew we didn't
infringe, I knew we could win,
282
00:19:28,835 --> 00:19:30,780
uh, it really just came down to money.
283
00:19:30,870 --> 00:19:33,850
How many dollars have
you put into this so far?
284
00:19:33,940 --> 00:19:37,520
We got $350 to $400,000 invested in this.
285
00:19:37,610 --> 00:19:39,301
-In two and a half years?
-Yeah.
286
00:19:39,391 --> 00:19:41,429
And it's still not over.
287
00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:42,519
No.
288
00:19:42,615 --> 00:19:46,863
No, it won't be over for... I don't
know, another year, year and a half.
289
00:19:46,953 --> 00:19:50,767
How much more money are you gonna spend?
290
00:19:50,857 --> 00:19:54,261
Well, I committed a million, SO,
I'll KEEP... I'll KEEP FIGHTING IT.
291
00:19:54,351 --> 00:19:57,807
All right, so I'm being
sued by a patent troll right now
292
00:19:57,897 --> 00:20:02,379
for using the Google play store, I've
been in this now for about four years,
293
00:20:02,469 --> 00:20:05,882
and there is no end
in sight, what do I do?
294
00:20:05,972 --> 00:20:08,472
I get asked this question a lot.
295
00:20:08,562 --> 00:20:10,122
Are you rich?
296
00:20:10,343 --> 00:20:13,856
So, I guess the big question is,
can you... can you afford the pain?
297
00:20:13,946 --> 00:20:17,794
So, your lawsuit is a
particularly absurd case, which is,
298
00:20:17,884 --> 00:20:22,271
you're being prosecuted not for
developing technology in violation,
299
00:20:22,361 --> 00:20:25,606
you're simply using
someone else's technology.
300
00:20:25,696 --> 00:20:29,306
As consumers or businesses, we
use thousands of technology products,
301
00:20:29,396 --> 00:20:33,248
that could, at any moment, be a violation
of thousands of different patents.
302
00:20:33,338 --> 00:20:34,911
I mean, anyone is at risk.
303
00:20:35,001 --> 00:20:39,069
What kind of legal system is when anyone
can be guilty of patent infringement
304
00:20:39,159 --> 00:20:41,359
at any given time and
their lives destroyed?
305
00:20:41,449 --> 00:20:42,519
I mean, really?
306
00:20:42,609 --> 00:20:46,723
Is this... is this the kind of society
that we wanna... We wanna live in?
307
00:20:46,813 --> 00:20:51,325
This is...
this is terrible, this is a travesty.
308
00:20:51,951 --> 00:20:52,995
So what do I do?
309
00:20:53,085 --> 00:20:56,772
I tell most people,
you're a little deep into it.
310
00:20:56,862 --> 00:20:59,602
I tell most people to
settle, it's not worth it.
311
00:20:59,692 --> 00:21:04,541
Why should I settle when I
know it's the wrong thing to do?
312
00:21:04,631 --> 00:21:09,612
You know, ask the guy that owns the liquor
store uh, why he pays $100 for protection,
313
00:21:09,702 --> 00:21:12,515
and not take a bullet in the head, right?
314
00:21:12,605 --> 00:21:17,754
I mean, the right move is to take a bullet
in the head, stand up to the extorter.
315
00:21:17,844 --> 00:21:21,272
Smart move is to pay $100
bucks, get the protection.
316
00:21:21,362 --> 00:21:26,028
I've thought a lot about this
problem, just trying to figure out, like,
317
00:21:26,118 --> 00:21:29,018
how do you pull people together
to go after him, you know?
318
00:21:29,108 --> 00:21:31,458
How do you build some
kind of deterrent system?
319
00:21:31,548 --> 00:21:32,702
It's complicated.
320
00:21:32,792 --> 00:21:37,592
Fighting one off, I'm not
sure that's the solution.
321
00:21:39,599 --> 00:21:42,512
If fighting one off isn't the solution,
322
00:21:42,602 --> 00:21:48,585
and settling involves encouraging
them to do it again, what's left?
323
00:21:48,675 --> 00:21:51,888
I've... I've gotten to learn
the way they legally operate
324
00:21:51,978 --> 00:21:54,063
and set up money, and go after people.
325
00:21:54,153 --> 00:21:57,648
It's a very asymmetrical fight,
uh, it's kind of like terrorism,
326
00:21:57,738 --> 00:22:01,998
uh, where they can come in and cost
them $400 to file a lawsuit against me.
327
00:22:02,088 --> 00:22:05,868
It costs me $2 million to go call
their bluff. No one calls their bluff.
328
00:22:05,958 --> 00:22:07,973
Very few people ever call their bluff.
329
00:22:08,063 --> 00:22:10,556
So it's a brilliant,
brilliant, uh, strategy,
330
00:22:10,646 --> 00:22:12,909
and for them, no downside whatsoever.
331
00:22:12,999 --> 00:22:16,174
-For you?
-For me, it's nothing but downside.
332
00:22:16,264 --> 00:22:18,948
I think a lot of these
patent trolls are sociopaths.
333
00:22:19,038 --> 00:22:21,454
They know the damage and the carnage they
334
00:22:21,544 --> 00:22:24,263
they create in society,
they just don't give a shit.
335
00:22:24,353 --> 00:22:26,689
-They don't care.
-It's the almighty dollar.
336
00:22:26,779 --> 00:22:28,579
They give greed a bad name.
337
00:22:30,049 --> 00:22:36,733
An idea is not private property, you
can't own an idea, it's not possible.
338
00:22:36,823 --> 00:22:38,835
You can't own a concept.
339
00:22:38,925 --> 00:22:43,072
Look, I've been doing I've
been inventing for 40 years.
340
00:22:43,162 --> 00:22:44,707
Ideas are cheap.
341
00:22:44,797 --> 00:22:47,805
Turning a good idea into a
successful product and company?
342
00:22:47,895 --> 00:22:49,456
That's really, really hard.
343
00:22:49,546 --> 00:22:53,350
What the patent office has done is
completely put everything on it's head.
344
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,453
They're...
they're putting all the value in the idea
345
00:22:56,543 --> 00:22:58,493
and they'll make it extremely expensive
346
00:22:58,583 --> 00:23:01,391
for people like us that are
trying to improve the world
347
00:23:01,481 --> 00:23:05,862
by actually creating products
and services that benefit others.
348
00:23:05,952 --> 00:23:10,633
So that's Kevin's story and I'm
starting to see the tip of the iceberg
349
00:23:10,723 --> 00:23:13,987
in this ongoing national disaster.
350
00:23:14,627 --> 00:23:18,975
The lawsuit against me has been
dragging on for about four years now,
351
00:23:19,065 --> 00:23:21,678
and there's no end to it in sight.
352
00:23:21,768 --> 00:23:28,518
I've watched my daughter, grow up from age
one to age five, always under the threat
353
00:23:28,608 --> 00:23:34,724
that I'd have to turn over my savings
for her future to a lawyer that's suing me
354
00:23:34,814 --> 00:23:37,514
for using the Google store.
355
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:39,829
This has cost me time.
356
00:23:39,919 --> 00:23:41,998
THAT I'll NEVER GET BACK.
357
00:23:42,088 --> 00:23:46,792
But, am I the only one
in this wretched situation?
358
00:23:48,596 --> 00:23:52,243
Coming out of college, I knew
that I wanted to be a programmer.
359
00:23:52,333 --> 00:23:55,579
I knew that I wanted to create
applications that people enjoyed,
360
00:23:55,669 --> 00:23:57,569
people wanted to use every single day.
361
00:23:57,659 --> 00:24:00,318
So, the idea for ditto
really came from watching
362
00:24:00,408 --> 00:24:03,454
thousands of people try to
buy glasses in the real world.
363
00:24:03,544 --> 00:24:05,994
And we realized they
were really struggling.
364
00:24:06,084 --> 00:24:08,926
You know, that's really what
kind of made this exciting,
365
00:24:09,016 --> 00:24:12,066
like, it felt like we were really
solving a consumer problem.
366
00:24:12,156 --> 00:24:15,939
Well, I started it in my basement,
in 1997, with, uh, two other people.
367
00:24:16,029 --> 00:24:18,629
It was basically just, uh,
I wanted to stop annoying
368
00:24:18,719 --> 00:24:20,973
my friends sending
them emails all the time.
369
00:24:21,063 --> 00:24:24,063
So I thought, you know, I'll
just put all this on a website,
370
00:24:24,153 --> 00:24:26,743
and they can come check
it out when they want to.
371
00:24:26,833 --> 00:24:29,034
Okay, time out.
Just wait one second here.
372
00:24:29,124 --> 00:24:32,749
This guy is Drew Curtiss, and
he runs a website called Fark.com.
373
00:24:32,839 --> 00:24:36,041
He was sued for posting
news at his website.
374
00:24:36,131 --> 00:24:38,946
Okay, now I'm gonna reach the patent.
375
00:24:39,036 --> 00:24:41,285
"Writing three key messages, purpose."
376
00:24:41,375 --> 00:24:44,954
"Answer the question, why
should I be interested in this?"
377
00:24:45,044 --> 00:24:47,371
Two to three statements that
378
00:24:47,461 --> 00:24:49,899
support the headline
and entice the reader.
379
00:24:49,989 --> 00:24:52,989
For example, answer the
question; Why is this news?
380
00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:55,533
Present facts or statistics
or other evidence to
381
00:24:55,623 --> 00:24:58,077
show why your story is
important or interesting.
382
00:24:58,167 --> 00:25:01,331
The statements don't necessarily
have to relate to each other,
383
00:25:01,421 --> 00:25:03,112
but must support the headline.
384
00:25:03,202 --> 00:25:05,582
"30 to 40 words in total per highlight."
385
00:25:05,672 --> 00:25:06,872
That's it.
386
00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:08,839
That's the patent.
387
00:25:09,275 --> 00:25:13,890
That's the patent that the patent
troll used to sue Drew Curtiss
388
00:25:13,980 --> 00:25:15,992
for posting news at a website.
389
00:25:17,184 --> 00:25:19,084
All right, sorry for the interruption.
390
00:25:19,174 --> 00:25:20,230
Back to the movie.
391
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,499
So I kind of flipped over a
napkin and started drawing it out,
392
00:25:23,589 --> 00:25:26,044
it was just an exchange
of economics for power.
393
00:25:26,134 --> 00:25:28,454
The day my brother got
back from Afghanistan
394
00:25:28,544 --> 00:25:30,699
was the day that we actually went live.
395
00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:32,309
And we sold out. We sold out.
396
00:25:32,399 --> 00:25:34,849
We... we did this in a
nightclub here in Chicago.
397
00:25:34,939 --> 00:25:39,216
-And, uh, it sold out in about 17 minutes.
-We had a lot of fun.
398
00:25:39,306 --> 00:25:41,251
My wife and I worked hand in hand.
399
00:25:41,341 --> 00:25:44,021
And uh, we were the first
photographers in the event.
400
00:25:44,111 --> 00:25:47,100
So we've gone to lots of great
places, we've photographed
401
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:49,854
lots of great people,
captured memories for them.
402
00:25:49,944 --> 00:25:52,561
Running my own business
definitely made me happy.
403
00:25:52,651 --> 00:25:55,351
It was something that, you
know, I always wanted to do
404
00:25:55,441 --> 00:25:58,334
and, uh, you know, just
having the ability to be creative
405
00:25:58,424 --> 00:26:00,666
and share your creativity
with the world was
406
00:26:00,756 --> 00:26:03,139
something that I think
everybody wants to do.
407
00:26:03,229 --> 00:26:07,877
Eventually, one of my apps, White
Noise, uh, became extremely popular,
408
00:26:07,967 --> 00:26:09,967
even became the number one app on Itunes
409
00:26:10,057 --> 00:26:14,250
and that's when I was able to
focus on my startup full time.
410
00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:16,727
I was able to watch folks who came in as
411
00:26:16,817 --> 00:26:20,332
interns from college grow into
senior managers in the organization.
412
00:26:20,422 --> 00:26:24,907
And it was almost like getting to, uh, you
know, be a parent or at least an uncle.
413
00:26:24,997 --> 00:26:27,664
Uh, it's been the best thing ever.
414
00:26:27,754 --> 00:26:31,004
When you're building something
and the first customers say, like,
415
00:26:31,094 --> 00:26:32,550
"Wow, that really helped us."
416
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,616
Uh, there's no greater feeling.
417
00:26:36,062 --> 00:26:42,712
It was, uh, December 31st, 2013, and I was
with my family ringing in the new year,
418
00:26:42,802 --> 00:26:45,047
not knowing what lay ahead of us.
419
00:26:45,137 --> 00:26:48,184
And, uh, we had champagne
glasses in our hand
420
00:26:48,274 --> 00:26:54,802
and at 12:04 a.m. my email lit up
on my phone from a patent attorney.
421
00:26:59,719 --> 00:27:02,519
Saying, "I see you've been
sued for patent infringement.
422
00:27:02,609 --> 00:27:04,059
Maybe I could represent you."
423
00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:10,005
All of a sudden, on 9/11, in
2013, I received a demand letter.
424
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,683
The demand letter basically
stated that I infringed upon a patent,
425
00:27:16,773 --> 00:27:19,882
and it didn't tell me how,
or it didn't tell me why,
426
00:27:19,972 --> 00:27:23,022
it just says, "We believe that
you infringed upon this patent
427
00:27:23,112 --> 00:27:26,144
and if you do not cease and
desist, we're going to sue you."
428
00:27:26,234 --> 00:27:28,434
In February of 2012...
429
00:27:35,722 --> 00:27:38,267
And, uh, I remember it very clearly.
430
00:27:38,357 --> 00:27:42,071
A letter came in the mail,
saying, "Dear Doctor Vicinanza,"
431
00:27:42,161 --> 00:27:47,409
um, "We understand that, uh,
you have certain technologies",
432
00:27:47,499 --> 00:27:52,020
uh, in particular, network-based
scanners that," uh, "we feel," uh,
433
00:27:52,110 --> 00:27:59,226
"infringe on our proprietary patent and
therefore we suggest that you call us..."
434
00:27:59,316 --> 00:28:03,059
"So you can arrange to get a
license to use your equipment."
435
00:28:03,149 --> 00:28:06,575
Yeah, we'd been in business
for about 10 years when I got
436
00:28:06,665 --> 00:28:10,057
hit by a patent troll lawsuit
in 2011, out of nowhere.
437
00:28:15,061 --> 00:28:19,408
So, it was somebody who was
claiming that Fark, and Reddit, and AOL,
438
00:28:19,498 --> 00:28:22,598
and six other companies were
infringing on a patent of theirs.
439
00:28:22,688 --> 00:28:25,715
Essentially, it involved emailing
press releases to people.
440
00:28:25,805 --> 00:28:29,837
Got a curious phone call from an attorney.
441
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,459
That claimed that I was
infringing on their patent.
442
00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:40,922
It was a lot of jargon and
nonsense and then a bunch
443
00:28:41,012 --> 00:28:44,384
of claims and one of the
claims was uh, if you, uh,
444
00:28:44,474 --> 00:28:48,905
scan a document to an email,
that's protected under this patent.
445
00:28:48,995 --> 00:28:52,133
What the patent said
we were doing wrong was,
446
00:28:52,223 --> 00:28:55,311
taking a document,
putting it on a scanner,
447
00:28:55,401 --> 00:28:59,048
and pressing a button, and
having that scanned to an email.
448
00:28:59,138 --> 00:29:05,378
The demand letter said nothing
about what we were infringing on...
449
00:29:08,259 --> 00:29:11,045
Nothing about what we
were doing wrong or what
450
00:29:11,135 --> 00:29:13,796
they were even trying
to claim against us.
451
00:29:13,886 --> 00:29:15,832
So, this is usually what you get.
452
00:29:15,922 --> 00:29:18,822
This is, uh, a demand letter.
453
00:29:24,096 --> 00:29:28,320
And it usually comes
with a lot of paperwork.
454
00:29:28,935 --> 00:29:34,350
These are, you know, four
patents here, and they basically say,
455
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:40,422
"You're violating something here, one
or more of our patents you're violating."
456
00:29:40,512 --> 00:29:42,712
Um, a lot of times
they don't even tell you.
457
00:29:42,802 --> 00:29:46,589
In my case, they actually
illustrated where they think
458
00:29:46,679 --> 00:29:50,466
I'm infringing on their
patent, and it's right here.
459
00:29:50,556 --> 00:29:55,740
When you click this button,
it opens Apple's app store.
460
00:29:57,029 --> 00:29:58,407
And that's it.
461
00:29:58,497 --> 00:30:00,197
That's all it is.
462
00:30:00,499 --> 00:30:05,948
A button, that goes out to the
internet and opens up Itunes,
463
00:30:06,038 --> 00:30:09,118
and that's...
that's a million dollar lawsuit? Really?
464
00:30:09,208 --> 00:30:10,883
And it says right there,
465
00:30:10,973 --> 00:30:15,945
"...Storing results of a two-way
interaction to a central location."
466
00:30:17,049 --> 00:30:20,229
That sounds like using the internet.
467
00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:25,534
Later, I discovered I was not alone
and that many other small businesses
468
00:30:25,624 --> 00:30:28,470
had been targeted and
sent these demand letters,
469
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:33,175
and they all say pretty much the
same thing, they reference a few patents,
470
00:30:33,265 --> 00:30:37,479
uh, and then they claim they
wanna get a licensing fee from you.
471
00:30:37,569 --> 00:30:41,884
Uh, if you don't pay them a licensing
fee, they're gonna take you to court.
472
00:30:41,974 --> 00:30:44,887
Okay, so you've seen some
pretty absurd lawsuits here,
473
00:30:44,977 --> 00:30:48,224
but now, it's time for
the mother of them all.
474
00:30:48,314 --> 00:30:51,889
Uniloc, the company
that's currently suing me,
475
00:30:51,979 --> 00:30:57,887
was also suing a company called
Rackspace, for selling linux computers.
476
00:30:58,224 --> 00:31:00,502
Uniloc's excuse for the lawsuit?
477
00:31:00,592 --> 00:31:07,600
That Uniloc held a patent that described
rounding numbers when doing math.
478
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:14,851
This, because Rackspace's linux
computers rounded numbers when doing math.
479
00:31:14,941 --> 00:31:18,441
When someone is sued for doing
math, I pretty much wanna talk to them.
480
00:31:18,531 --> 00:31:21,891
I've been accused of running linux.
481
00:31:27,486 --> 00:31:29,866
Because the linux kernel does math.
482
00:31:29,956 --> 00:31:34,270
It rounds, it rounds up or rounds
down, they said we violated their patent.
483
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,874
You know what happens when you
have a phone and it rotates like that.
484
00:31:37,964 --> 00:31:42,044
We've been accused of having a free
mobile app that rotates on your phone.
485
00:31:42,134 --> 00:31:46,983
We have, an accusation
right now that we send email.
486
00:31:47,073 --> 00:31:52,621
Uh, we have been accused of...
Selling cloud computing services.
487
00:31:52,711 --> 00:31:57,314
They said, "if you charge somebody
money for providing a computing service,
488
00:31:57,404 --> 00:31:58,928
that violates our patent."
489
00:31:59,018 --> 00:32:01,418
So you may notice that
Uniloc's lawsuit against.
490
00:32:01,508 --> 00:32:03,608
Rackspace was for selling linux computers.
491
00:32:03,698 --> 00:32:05,167
Why linux?
492
00:32:05,257 --> 00:32:07,603
Think about it, and the
answer becomes clear.
493
00:32:07,693 --> 00:32:11,040
If they were to sue Rackspace
for renting out time on Apple
494
00:32:11,130 --> 00:32:14,176
or Microsoft operating
systems for rounding numbers,
495
00:32:14,266 --> 00:32:17,546
any jury would just
laugh it right out of court.
496
00:32:17,636 --> 00:32:21,117
But when they choose linux,
that's an operating system
497
00:32:21,207 --> 00:32:23,619
that most jurors just
don't know much about.
498
00:32:23,709 --> 00:32:27,456
Turns out, Linux rounds numbers
just like Apple and just like Microsoft.
499
00:32:27,546 --> 00:32:30,196
All the operating systems
work on the same computers.
500
00:32:30,286 --> 00:32:34,396
But by choosing linux, Uniloc
introduces just enough doubt
501
00:32:34,486 --> 00:32:36,332
to stand a chance of succeeding.
502
00:32:36,422 --> 00:32:40,803
And it's that tiny little seed of
doubt that drives the entire lawsuit.
503
00:32:40,893 --> 00:32:42,856
They don't really care that their
504
00:32:42,946 --> 00:32:45,762
interpretation is
ridiculous on the face of it.
505
00:32:45,852 --> 00:32:50,413
And the trolls don't even care how
nonsensical or irrelevant their patent is.
506
00:32:50,503 --> 00:32:54,852
The thing about these users suits is
that we're all now users of technology.
507
00:32:54,942 --> 00:32:57,292
So that's why you see
folks who are angry about
508
00:32:57,382 --> 00:33:00,756
patent trolls not only including
tech companies, but retailers,
509
00:33:00,846 --> 00:33:02,893
your mom and pop store down the street.
510
00:33:02,983 --> 00:33:05,428
If you have a scanner in your house...
do you?
511
00:33:05,518 --> 00:33:07,768
-Do you have wifi in your house?
-Absolutely.
512
00:33:07,858 --> 00:33:10,703
-Do you have a smartphone in your pocket?
-Of course.
513
00:33:10,793 --> 00:33:13,960
Okay, so those things make
you a target for a patent lawsuit,
514
00:33:14,050 --> 00:33:17,272
because you are using the
technologies which are at stake.
515
00:33:17,362 --> 00:33:20,054
Man. But historically,
patent holders won't go after
516
00:33:20,144 --> 00:33:22,836
users because they don't
want to sue their customers.
517
00:33:22,926 --> 00:33:26,476
The thing about patent trolls is they
don't have customers, so they can
518
00:33:26,566 --> 00:33:30,288
go after folks without worrying about
their reputation in the marketplace.
519
00:33:30,378 --> 00:33:34,756
When I received the demand letter, most of
the screenshots were of Apple's app store,
520
00:33:34,846 --> 00:33:36,925
well I'm an end user of that technology.
521
00:33:37,015 --> 00:33:41,897
I didn't invent that technology,
I'm just using that technology.
522
00:33:41,987 --> 00:33:46,935
But they're claiming that end
users are violating their patents,
523
00:33:47,025 --> 00:33:50,806
even though Apple has a license
patent, even though Apple says,
524
00:33:50,896 --> 00:33:54,352
their developers are not infringing.
525
00:33:54,966 --> 00:33:57,112
It doesn't matter to the patent troll.
526
00:33:57,202 --> 00:33:59,002
It doesn't matter.
527
00:33:59,805 --> 00:34:03,519
If they could pin that...
that interpretation in any such way,
528
00:34:03,609 --> 00:34:05,554
then they force you to respond.
529
00:34:05,644 --> 00:34:08,690
Because, their point is not to win.
530
00:34:08,780 --> 00:34:11,127
Their point is to make you spend money.
531
00:34:11,217 --> 00:34:13,767
If they can make it more
expensive for you to prove
532
00:34:13,857 --> 00:34:16,630
that you're right than it
is for you to pay them off,
533
00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:20,708
then 99 out of 100 people will just
pay them off and go about their business.
534
00:34:20,798 --> 00:34:25,527
And every one of these people are... Are
coming in and running around, and saying,
535
00:34:25,617 --> 00:34:33,489
"well, Newegg could not have succeeded but
for my patent". Which is utter bullshit.
536
00:34:35,641 --> 00:34:39,221
Right? None of our developers
or software developers
537
00:34:39,311 --> 00:34:42,395
had, you know, ever
referenced any of these patents.
538
00:34:42,485 --> 00:34:46,641
For example, on the online shopping
cart, what they coded for that,
539
00:34:46,731 --> 00:34:49,683
for that functionality,
every website in America
540
00:34:49,773 --> 00:34:53,234
that's an e-commerce website,
um, has a shopping cart.
541
00:34:53,324 --> 00:34:55,675
You know what I say at our company?
542
00:34:55,765 --> 00:34:56,765
Ideas are cheap.
543
00:34:56,855 --> 00:34:59,741
I have an idea every day, you know?
544
00:34:59,831 --> 00:35:02,278
What, am I gonna go
patent every one of them?
545
00:35:02,368 --> 00:35:07,349
This law firm that sued me had
absolutely no value to add to my business.
546
00:35:07,439 --> 00:35:14,223
They were only trying to extract money
in exchange for agreeing not to sue me,
547
00:35:14,313 --> 00:35:16,613
which I call extortion.
548
00:35:16,848 --> 00:35:19,348
Pay money to not be sued?
549
00:35:19,785 --> 00:35:21,385
Well, so what if we do get sued?
550
00:35:21,475 --> 00:35:23,132
This'll never stand up in court.
551
00:35:23,222 --> 00:35:27,703
Of course, we do have to
have to pay our defense fees.
552
00:35:27,793 --> 00:35:33,775
They are hard costs, that are already
tremendous and tragic and ridiculous.
553
00:35:33,865 --> 00:35:38,214
They count on the fact that most
companies can't manage, um,
554
00:35:38,304 --> 00:35:43,185
their legal defense and they have to
basically end up paying far, far more
555
00:35:43,275 --> 00:35:46,322
than, um...
than what the plaintiffs are asking for.
556
00:35:46,412 --> 00:35:49,032
And so those plaintiffs
will very cleverly...
557
00:35:49,122 --> 00:35:51,560
They'll price below the cost of defense.
558
00:35:51,650 --> 00:35:57,766
A patent suit generally costs $1 to $2
million to defend through to judgment.
559
00:35:57,856 --> 00:35:59,835
So in 2011, when I gave my ted talk,
560
00:35:59,925 --> 00:36:03,425
they were estimating that the cost
of defending a patent troll lawsuit
561
00:36:03,515 --> 00:36:05,065
was about a million and a half.
562
00:36:05,155 --> 00:36:09,550
The legal expense of defending
yourself against the patent,
563
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,882
um, trolling lawsuit can
be in the millions of dollars.
564
00:36:13,972 --> 00:36:17,619
And a lot of times the patent trolls
are picking on small companies
565
00:36:17,709 --> 00:36:21,823
that they know cannot afford to
go through the whole legal process.
566
00:36:21,913 --> 00:36:25,361
You probably spend about $3 to $4 million.
567
00:36:25,451 --> 00:36:32,171
So far, I would estimate that the
legal fees have been in the millions.
568
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,933
And I think we're talking about several
569
00:36:36,023 --> 00:36:38,607
million more before
it's all said and done.
570
00:36:38,697 --> 00:36:42,444
My small company couldn't
afford that, and they knew that.
571
00:36:42,534 --> 00:36:46,244
It would be half a
million dollars or up, to
572
00:36:46,334 --> 00:36:50,219
defend against a patent
infringement lawsuit.
573
00:36:50,309 --> 00:36:53,622
And how much money
did you make in the year leading up
574
00:36:53,712 --> 00:36:55,462
to the patent infringement lawsuit?
575
00:36:55,552 --> 00:36:57,848
We made about $30,000 profit in 2013.
576
00:36:57,938 --> 00:37:00,929
Every case has been
brought against it so far.
577
00:37:01,019 --> 00:37:04,554
Has been by MPE's where
there was no product for us to buy
578
00:37:04,644 --> 00:37:10,692
or no service out there in the
market that we could have bought.
579
00:37:14,733 --> 00:37:20,349
We should fight and we do, um, with
what we have but we don't have that much.
580
00:37:20,439 --> 00:37:23,452
For me, hundreds of thousands
of dollars is a lot of money.
581
00:37:23,542 --> 00:37:26,042
It was more money than
we spent on the entire app.
582
00:37:26,132 --> 00:37:27,473
So what'd you do?
583
00:37:27,563 --> 00:37:30,336
Um, we scraped together a little bit of
584
00:37:30,426 --> 00:37:33,633
money that we could,
uh, could get a hold of.
585
00:37:33,723 --> 00:37:39,301
We emptied our 401k, we paid our
attorney enough to get the job started.
586
00:37:39,391 --> 00:37:41,791
The lawyers, the first
question they ask you is:
587
00:37:41,881 --> 00:37:44,240
"How much money do you have?"
588
00:37:44,330 --> 00:37:48,677
And since I didn't have anywhere
near a million to $3 million in the bank,
589
00:37:48,767 --> 00:37:50,446
I was laughed off the phone.
590
00:37:50,536 --> 00:37:52,481
Some of them were extremely rude.
591
00:37:52,571 --> 00:37:55,235
When we got the lawsuit,
we knew we immediately
592
00:37:55,325 --> 00:37:57,506
had to make some very hard decisions.
593
00:37:57,596 --> 00:38:00,902
So we actually held a meeting
and I told all of my employees,
594
00:38:00,992 --> 00:38:02,992
I said, "everybody is getting laid off.
595
00:38:03,082 --> 00:38:05,382
I'm gonna move the
office back to my basement,
596
00:38:05,472 --> 00:38:07,654
and I'm gonna try to
do everything myself."
597
00:38:07,744 --> 00:38:11,694
And I figured within... By the end of
the year we might be out of business.
598
00:38:11,784 --> 00:38:13,734
I had planned to hire another couple of
599
00:38:13,824 --> 00:38:16,272
employees that year
and I wasn't able to do it.
600
00:38:16,362 --> 00:38:20,709
You know, I laid off seven people,
um, most of whom were engineers.
601
00:38:20,799 --> 00:38:22,411
Um, I lost employees.
602
00:38:22,501 --> 00:38:26,091
I had to... I had to get rid of them
so I could finance the litigation.
603
00:38:26,181 --> 00:38:28,717
You have to learn a lot
about the legal system
604
00:38:28,807 --> 00:38:32,821
so I can't tell you how
much time I've wasted on this,
605
00:38:32,911 --> 00:38:36,111
time I could have been
focused on my own products.
606
00:38:36,201 --> 00:38:39,109
Last month I probably
could have hired 20 people,
607
00:38:39,199 --> 00:38:42,345
except for what we're spending
on patent litigation and...
608
00:38:42,435 --> 00:38:46,702
Instead of spending 18 hours a day
running my business like I normally do,
609
00:38:46,792 --> 00:38:50,542
I had to instead spend that trying
to figure out how to fight this lawsuit.
610
00:38:50,632 --> 00:38:53,566
It took up 100% of my time
for the better part a the year.
611
00:38:53,656 --> 00:38:57,680
I probably spent 60 or 70 hours
a week doing litigation activities,
612
00:38:57,770 --> 00:39:00,045
um, in those first couple months.
613
00:39:00,135 --> 00:39:04,836
Um, what I should have been doing
was finding new customers and growing
614
00:39:04,926 --> 00:39:09,491
our business, and signing up new
eyewear manufacturers to our site.
615
00:39:09,581 --> 00:39:11,593
The business ground to a halt.
616
00:39:11,683 --> 00:39:17,966
Every resource, financially as well
as my... you know, mental resources
617
00:39:18,056 --> 00:39:21,258
and my time were focused on
what were we going to do next?
618
00:39:21,348 --> 00:39:22,899
How were we gonna survive?
619
00:39:22,989 --> 00:39:26,407
We had to stop growing
basically in order to deal with this.
620
00:39:26,497 --> 00:39:29,211
Everything on the
business side was derailed.
621
00:39:29,301 --> 00:39:34,400
Not only am I trying to run a business,
I'm trying to run a business, plus,
622
00:39:34,490 --> 00:39:39,588
deal with lawyers, and you know, um,
looking up doing research on the patent
623
00:39:39,678 --> 00:39:44,693
and the patent troll and coming up with
responses, so yeah, it did take a toll.
624
00:39:44,783 --> 00:39:47,083
It was a... it was a...
Tough time for us all.
625
00:39:47,173 --> 00:39:51,238
They want you to make it so painful
to fight them, that you just give up
626
00:39:51,328 --> 00:39:52,934
and you pay them off.
627
00:39:53,024 --> 00:39:58,262
And even my boys, they... they knew that,
you know, their dad was tied up with this,
628
00:39:58,352 --> 00:39:59,775
that my mind was elsewhere.
629
00:39:59,865 --> 00:40:02,344
And we consider 2014 a whole year lost.
630
00:40:02,434 --> 00:40:05,234
Over all, yeah, I would say
it had an effect on my kids.
631
00:40:05,324 --> 00:40:08,317
They... they...
missed their dad for about three months.
632
00:40:08,407 --> 00:40:12,182
My oldest son who was eight at
the time, uh, was listening in on all our
633
00:40:12,272 --> 00:40:16,147
conversations about strategy, and
at one point he, uh... he tried to help,
634
00:40:16,237 --> 00:40:19,736
and he says, "Daddy, I know
what you need to do with this guy."
635
00:40:19,826 --> 00:40:22,610
-And I go, "What?"
-He goes, "You should kill him."
636
00:40:22,700 --> 00:40:25,327
These trolls don't just
ruin people's businesses,
637
00:40:25,417 --> 00:40:27,736
they ruin their lives and their families.
638
00:40:27,826 --> 00:40:29,826
And if you settle with the patent trolls
639
00:40:29,916 --> 00:40:32,774
you're just encouraging
them to do it to you again.
640
00:40:32,864 --> 00:40:35,764
Or, to do it to someone else.
641
00:40:37,002 --> 00:40:38,079
Which lawsuit?
642
00:40:38,169 --> 00:40:39,481
The first one.
643
00:40:39,571 --> 00:40:41,971
It's still not resolved.
644
00:40:44,075 --> 00:40:46,154
How long is it gonna go on?
645
00:40:46,244 --> 00:40:47,956
It could go on several more years.
646
00:40:48,046 --> 00:40:50,146
It can go on forever.
647
00:40:50,516 --> 00:40:55,028
It can go on... For the...
For your entire life.
648
00:41:00,892 --> 00:41:06,908
The patent troll needs to make it
as difficult for you as he possibly can,
649
00:41:06,998 --> 00:41:11,547
so you'll finally just give
up in exhaustion and settle.
650
00:41:11,637 --> 00:41:16,652
One of the ways he does this
is a process called discovery.
651
00:41:16,742 --> 00:41:21,122
They will bleed you dry
in the discovery process.
652
00:41:21,212 --> 00:41:24,740
They will ask for
fountains of information,
653
00:41:24,830 --> 00:41:27,763
and it's a very intrusive process.
654
00:41:27,853 --> 00:41:33,101
We're talking email records,
financial records, bank statements.
655
00:41:33,191 --> 00:41:38,007
The list goes on and on, and they
don't really need this for their case.
656
00:41:38,097 --> 00:41:41,610
They just want you to pay a
lot of money and a lot of time.
657
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:43,412
That's how they bleed ya'.
658
00:41:43,502 --> 00:41:45,352
They bleed ya', bleed ya', bleed ya'.
659
00:41:45,442 --> 00:41:50,024
Show us the hundreds of thousands of
emails that have been sent back and forth
660
00:41:50,114 --> 00:41:53,427
between you and investors, and...
and anything that has to do with
661
00:41:53,517 --> 00:41:55,567
how you created this idea, and then we'll
662
00:41:55,657 --> 00:41:59,061
take a look later and determine
whether or not you're infringing.
663
00:41:59,151 --> 00:42:00,551
That's just... That's cheap.
664
00:42:00,641 --> 00:42:02,141
It's... it's cheaper for them.
665
00:42:02,231 --> 00:42:05,968
If it was made more expensive for
them, perhaps they wouldn't do it.
666
00:42:06,058 --> 00:42:08,004
But they know it's expensive for me.
667
00:42:08,094 --> 00:42:11,711
Uh, it's... it's very similar to, what
if somebody broke into your house
668
00:42:11,801 --> 00:42:15,263
in the middle of the night and
you have to sit there on the couch
669
00:42:15,353 --> 00:42:17,553
while they argue with
the cops over how much
670
00:42:17,643 --> 00:42:19,843
of your stuff they can
take when they leave.
671
00:42:19,933 --> 00:42:21,912
So the person being sued has to reveal
672
00:42:22,002 --> 00:42:24,248
everything about his own business.
673
00:42:24,338 --> 00:42:27,216
What does the patent troll
have to reveal about his?
674
00:42:27,306 --> 00:42:30,624
It basically created again a huge
imbalanced burden on defendants.
675
00:42:30,714 --> 00:42:33,941
Plaintiffs have no documents
or records to turn over, right?
676
00:42:34,031 --> 00:42:37,966
Why don't the plaintiffs have
any documents or records to turn over?
677
00:42:38,056 --> 00:42:39,656
Because they're shell companies.
678
00:42:39,746 --> 00:42:41,725
Patent trolls are just shell companies.
679
00:42:41,815 --> 00:42:44,840
They don't make anything,
they don't produce anything.
680
00:42:44,930 --> 00:42:47,175
They don't have employees.
681
00:42:47,265 --> 00:42:48,910
It's smoke and mirrors.
682
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,879
You don't even know who's suing you.
683
00:42:50,969 --> 00:42:52,113
You have no idea.
684
00:42:52,203 --> 00:42:54,603
You don't know anything.
685
00:42:54,740 --> 00:43:00,020
They've thought of every
single angle and you can't win.
686
00:43:00,580 --> 00:43:04,427
The company that sued us was
nothing more than a couple lawyers
687
00:43:04,517 --> 00:43:08,753
that were in a room in east Texas that
thought they could make some money.
688
00:43:08,843 --> 00:43:12,035
In one case of a friend
of mine now, uh, they won.
689
00:43:12,125 --> 00:43:13,564
The judge actually said, um,
690
00:43:13,654 --> 00:43:17,425
"this is actually insane, and you're
owed all these punitive damages."
691
00:43:17,515 --> 00:43:19,542
But it was a non-practicing entity.
692
00:43:19,632 --> 00:43:23,150
They have no assets, so then they
just throw up their hands, and say,
693
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:25,081
"sorry, we don't have any money."
694
00:43:25,171 --> 00:43:28,249
You get a million dollar judgment
against the shell company,
695
00:43:28,339 --> 00:43:30,539
they go, "okay, poof,
we're outta business."
696
00:43:30,629 --> 00:43:32,453
So that's what a shell company is.
697
00:43:32,543 --> 00:43:36,925
It's an empty shell put together just
to hold a patent and no other assets.
698
00:43:37,015 --> 00:43:41,814
As the money comes into the shell company,
the patent trolls funnel it down into
699
00:43:41,904 --> 00:43:46,702
their own pockets so the shell company
itself never achieves any value.
700
00:43:46,792 --> 00:43:49,771
For the patent troll, there's no risk.
701
00:43:49,861 --> 00:43:53,074
Because he has no business,
he has nothing to lose.
702
00:43:53,164 --> 00:43:55,314
Let's examine one of
these shell companies.
703
00:43:55,404 --> 00:43:57,913
You remember our friend, Steve Vicinanza?
704
00:43:58,003 --> 00:44:01,765
In order to use my $200
scanner on the network,
705
00:44:01,855 --> 00:44:05,120
I would have to pay them $120 thousand.
706
00:44:05,210 --> 00:44:08,890
But who are we paying
this $120 thousand to?
707
00:44:08,980 --> 00:44:11,347
Uh, the patent troll was an entity called.
708
00:44:11,437 --> 00:44:14,434
-Project Paperless...
-Project Paperless?
709
00:44:14,524 --> 00:44:16,424
Yeah, that's a shell company.
710
00:44:16,514 --> 00:44:17,966
But who are they suing?
711
00:44:18,056 --> 00:44:20,356
Well, it turns out
there's a directory called.
712
00:44:20,446 --> 00:44:24,105
"The Best Businesses
To Work At In Atlanta."
713
00:44:24,195 --> 00:44:31,046
The businesses on that list were the
ones that were sued for using scanners.
714
00:44:31,136 --> 00:44:33,236
The Best Businesses To Work At In Atlanta,
715
00:44:33,326 --> 00:44:38,787
clearly, businesses with good morale,
happy employees, a decent stream of money.
716
00:44:38,877 --> 00:44:45,693
They're the perfect fruit to pick,
ripe for the taking by patent trolls.
717
00:44:46,351 --> 00:44:51,166
What law firm would go and
ruin these people's lives like this?
718
00:44:51,256 --> 00:44:53,835
Turns out, it's a law firm called.
719
00:44:53,925 --> 00:44:56,437
Hill, Kertscher, and Wharton.
720
00:44:56,527 --> 00:45:00,341
Hill, Kertscher, and Wharton
demanded that each business
721
00:45:00,431 --> 00:45:07,215
that used a scanner to scan a document
to an email pay them a thousand dollars
722
00:45:07,305 --> 00:45:10,819
for each employee in the
company that used a scanner.
723
00:45:10,909 --> 00:45:16,024
If the companies didn't pay, then Hill,
Kertscher, and Wharton would sue them,
724
00:45:16,114 --> 00:45:21,196
and the victims would be
looking at $3 million in legal fees.
725
00:45:21,286 --> 00:45:24,086
Hill, Kertscher, and Wharton's
excuse for this nonsense?
726
00:45:24,176 --> 00:45:27,803
That they were representing a
client called Project Paperless.
727
00:45:27,893 --> 00:45:29,938
So who is this Project Paperless anyway?
728
00:45:30,028 --> 00:45:33,878
A little more research found that Project
Paperless was just a shell company,
729
00:45:33,968 --> 00:45:37,913
which in turn was owned by
three more shell companies.
730
00:45:38,003 --> 00:45:40,403
And the people who set
up those shell companies?
731
00:45:40,493 --> 00:45:47,355
Three guys, by the names of Steven Hill,
Douglass Kertscher, and Scott Wharton.
732
00:45:47,445 --> 00:45:49,090
Sound familiar?
733
00:45:49,180 --> 00:45:52,928
The very lawyers that
were filing the lawsuits.
734
00:45:53,018 --> 00:45:58,366
The supposed victims that the lawyers were
representing were just shell companies
735
00:45:58,456 --> 00:46:01,720
created by the lawyers themselves.
736
00:46:01,927 --> 00:46:07,075
Imagine going to a lawyer and saying that
you want to sue people for using scanners
737
00:46:07,165 --> 00:46:12,113
but you don't want anyone to find
out who you are while you're doing it.
738
00:46:12,203 --> 00:46:15,053
And the lawyer then saying,
"Oh, okay, that's no problem.
739
00:46:15,143 --> 00:46:18,443
We'll just set up dummy corporations
for you to hide your identity
740
00:46:18,533 --> 00:46:23,491
while we sue everyone in the Best Work
Place directory in your own hometown."
741
00:46:23,581 --> 00:46:27,717
Well, that's exactly what Steven
Hill, of Hill, Kertscher, and Wharton,
742
00:46:27,807 --> 00:46:30,207
of Atlanta, Georgia did.
743
00:46:30,455 --> 00:46:35,170
The address of one of the shell companies,
by the way, was a condo in Florida,
744
00:46:35,260 --> 00:46:39,100
owned by a friend of one of the lawyers.
745
00:46:39,630 --> 00:46:42,978
One of the businesses they
demanded money from, by the way,
746
00:46:43,068 --> 00:46:46,347
was a company called
Cobb Pediatric Therapy.
747
00:46:46,437 --> 00:46:50,986
Cobb Pediatric Therapy is a
business that helps disabled children.
748
00:46:51,076 --> 00:46:54,476
When they got their lawsuit threat
from Hill, Kertscher, and Wharton
749
00:46:54,566 --> 00:47:00,028
they had to promise Steven Hill that
they would never again use a scanner
750
00:47:00,118 --> 00:47:04,150
to scan a document into an email.
751
00:47:04,289 --> 00:47:06,497
That's what Cobb
Pediatric Therapy had to do
752
00:47:06,587 --> 00:47:08,937
to make the lawsuit
threat against them stop.
753
00:47:09,027 --> 00:47:13,512
So now, whenever disabled children come
into Cobb Pediatric Therapy to get help,
754
00:47:13,602 --> 00:47:18,988
Cobb Pediatric Therapy cannot help the
children as effectively as they otherwise
755
00:47:19,078 --> 00:47:24,052
would, because they are not allowed
to scan their documents into emails.
756
00:47:24,142 --> 00:47:27,214
So this, to satisfy the lawyers.
757
00:47:27,645 --> 00:47:32,060
So now, we have the latest
commandments from the lawyers.
758
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:34,150
Thou shalt not scan!
759
00:47:37,555 --> 00:47:42,470
All the lawyer has to do is
manufacture a victim that holds a patent
760
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,006
that describes what we all do every day.
761
00:47:45,096 --> 00:47:49,044
Once he's done that, he just
starts sending out the lawsuits,
762
00:47:49,134 --> 00:47:52,284
to the best business places to
work at in Atlanta, for example.
763
00:47:52,374 --> 00:47:56,217
In the demand letter they actually
showed a screen shot of my app.
764
00:47:56,307 --> 00:48:00,421
And they referenced the
hyperlink and they said,
765
00:48:00,511 --> 00:48:03,111
"That is in violation of
one or more other patents."
766
00:48:03,201 --> 00:48:07,628
A hyperlink. You know, the thing you click
on on the internet, that is basically
767
00:48:07,718 --> 00:48:09,898
uh, the backbone of the world wide web.
768
00:48:09,988 --> 00:48:15,603
That is not patentable and you should
not be able to abuse the court systems
769
00:48:15,693 --> 00:48:21,076
and drag small companies like
mine on such a simple concept.
770
00:48:21,166 --> 00:48:26,734
And... Here's the problem, is
what do you do at that point?
771
00:48:28,173 --> 00:48:29,951
So what do you do?
772
00:48:30,041 --> 00:48:32,553
I'm being sued for
something equally obvious.
773
00:48:32,643 --> 00:48:34,489
What are my options?
774
00:48:34,579 --> 00:48:39,331
It's very difficult to say what a company
should do when when they're sued...
775
00:48:39,421 --> 00:48:41,018
When they're sued by...
776
00:48:41,108 --> 00:48:46,334
Particularly, say, a patent troll, because
the choices are all... are all bad.
777
00:48:46,424 --> 00:48:49,404
And so then he told me
we had a couple of options,
778
00:48:49,494 --> 00:48:52,540
and one of those options was
to kind of settle out of court,
779
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:56,011
in which case, I would have to
give up some type of royalty fee.
780
00:48:56,101 --> 00:48:57,312
Or some type of payment.
781
00:48:57,402 --> 00:49:02,451
Most companies have to settle because
they can't afford expensive litigation
782
00:49:02,541 --> 00:49:06,488
and those companies that do
settle, it's like blood in the water.
783
00:49:06,578 --> 00:49:10,023
Other patent trolls see that,
they see that you're willing to pay
784
00:49:10,113 --> 00:49:13,395
to get out of the lawsuit and
they're gonna come knocking.
785
00:49:13,485 --> 00:49:16,889
But when I got into the weeds
and started talking to more lawyers,
786
00:49:16,979 --> 00:49:20,544
I understand that, um, this is
just what trolling is, and they sue a
787
00:49:20,634 --> 00:49:24,629
bunch of players in the same day,
and, you know, most of them advised me,
788
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:28,175
"Hey, this one you can settle,
and most likely you can settle it,
789
00:49:28,265 --> 00:49:31,556
for slightly less that it would
take you to win in court."
790
00:49:31,646 --> 00:49:35,873
The way this plays out for us is that,
you know, we're not one of the companies
791
00:49:35,963 --> 00:49:40,189
so big that they leave us alone 'cause
they're afraid of our... our legal budget,
792
00:49:40,279 --> 00:49:44,625
but we're not so small that they ignore us
because they think we can't write a check.
793
00:49:44,715 --> 00:49:46,815
We're right in the middle where, you know,
794
00:49:46,905 --> 00:49:49,905
they know that we can't
afford to keep fighting forever,
795
00:49:49,995 --> 00:49:53,774
and I feel like they leverage that
to try to get settlements out of us,
796
00:49:53,864 --> 00:49:57,589
but in the next year we're still
going to be a middle sized company,
797
00:49:57,679 --> 00:50:00,693
and we're venture-backed so
we're gonna continue to get hit,
798
00:50:00,783 --> 00:50:03,279
and it's gonna continue
to be draining for us.
799
00:50:03,369 --> 00:50:06,982
And we went from never
having had a patent lawsuit at all
800
00:50:07,072 --> 00:50:13,154
to having one come up every couple
months, what we call repeat business.
801
00:50:13,244 --> 00:50:17,720
We started to get people who would
come after us again and again and
802
00:50:17,810 --> 00:50:22,218
when we saw that, we realized,
this is just paying off the bully.
803
00:50:22,308 --> 00:50:24,599
This is not something that will change.
804
00:50:24,689 --> 00:50:26,667
Um, so... I actually went to mediation.
805
00:50:26,757 --> 00:50:30,493
For the first time I met, uh,
for the first time, the plaintiff.
806
00:50:30,583 --> 00:50:35,110
I saw his face, and I met this person
in front of kind of a federal mediator.
807
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,745
Um, the mediation
wasn't a mediation at all.
808
00:50:37,835 --> 00:50:42,221
Uh, I got into a room with my attorney
and these guys made some more demands
809
00:50:42,311 --> 00:50:46,021
and the demand was, "Look,
we may or may not win this case",
810
00:50:46,111 --> 00:50:50,058
we may or may not win this
appeal, but what we are going to do,
811
00:50:50,148 --> 00:50:54,795
as soon as this appeal is over, is we're
going to sue you with a different patent
812
00:50:54,885 --> 00:50:59,134
in our patent portfolio and we're
gonna start this all over again.
813
00:50:59,224 --> 00:51:01,531
And you're not gonna be able to...
to fight,
814
00:51:01,621 --> 00:51:04,521
"'Cause we know you're
running out of money."
815
00:51:07,232 --> 00:51:12,480
We're going to sue you with a
different patent in our patent portfolio
816
00:51:12,570 --> 00:51:16,084
and we're gonna start this all over again.
817
00:51:16,174 --> 00:51:21,356
That scenario I tend to mitigate
risk, as an ex-banker, an ex-pilot.
818
00:51:21,446 --> 00:51:23,796
That...
that scenario I didn't even see coming.
819
00:51:23,886 --> 00:51:27,596
Why isn't the national
media all over this?
820
00:51:27,686 --> 00:51:31,115
Well, now it's time for our
next step down the rabbit hole.
821
00:51:31,205 --> 00:51:34,401
So, when these
people settle, can I go ask them
822
00:51:34,491 --> 00:51:37,982
all about the settlement to
find out what happened to them?
823
00:51:38,072 --> 00:51:42,065
You can ask what people settled for,
but you generally won't get an answer.
824
00:51:42,155 --> 00:51:46,515
So it turns out that, uh, when you settle
as opposed to come to a trial judgment,
825
00:51:46,605 --> 00:51:48,855
uh, the settlements
have other terms in them,
826
00:51:48,945 --> 00:51:52,345
and one of the terms is always
non-disclosure, which means that, uh,
827
00:51:52,435 --> 00:51:55,223
if I pay you to go away as a patent troll,
828
00:51:55,313 --> 00:51:58,113
I'm not just paying you, I'm
also giving you my silence.
829
00:51:58,203 --> 00:51:59,453
They always ask for that.
830
00:51:59,543 --> 00:52:04,099
Nine out of ten times, the first thing
that the patent troll asks you to do
831
00:52:04,189 --> 00:52:06,334
is to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
832
00:52:06,424 --> 00:52:11,356
In my case, they would not even
tell me which specific claims we
833
00:52:11,446 --> 00:52:16,377
were infringing on unless I
signed a non-disclosure agreement.
834
00:52:16,467 --> 00:52:20,515
So we have been approached by
numerous patent trolls in the past,
835
00:52:20,605 --> 00:52:24,185
and unfortunately because I'm
under a non-disclosure agreement,
836
00:52:24,275 --> 00:52:27,675
I'm not allowed to really talk about
the specifics or what happened.
837
00:52:27,765 --> 00:52:29,937
The specifics of the lawsuit are...
838
00:52:30,027 --> 00:52:34,238
Are covered in a non-disclosure agreement
as part of the settlement agreement,
839
00:52:34,328 --> 00:52:38,122
so I really shouldn't talk about
anything specific like who's sued me,
840
00:52:38,212 --> 00:52:41,094
how I was sued, or, the
specifics of how I infringed
841
00:52:41,184 --> 00:52:44,066
upon a patent that I
really can't even talk about.
842
00:52:44,156 --> 00:52:47,473
It was... I just don't want
to talk about current things.
843
00:52:47,563 --> 00:52:50,813
But I can talk about what
generally I've been accused about.
844
00:52:50,903 --> 00:52:54,160
Yeah, I... I... can mention that I
am in ongoing cases, but we're
845
00:52:54,250 --> 00:52:57,352
not gonna mention names, or
we're not gonna mention... yeah.
846
00:52:57,442 --> 00:52:59,642
What law firm was it that sued you?
847
00:52:59,732 --> 00:53:02,032
Uh, I really can't say.
848
00:53:04,682 --> 00:53:06,832
What was the name of this company?
849
00:53:06,922 --> 00:53:10,186
I am not going to talk about that.
850
00:53:10,955 --> 00:53:13,701
Who were the
lawyers that were doing this?
851
00:53:13,791 --> 00:53:15,991
I can't disclose that.
852
00:53:16,561 --> 00:53:18,932
Uh, what... what truly makes me sad, uh,
853
00:53:19,022 --> 00:53:21,876
is to think about the
people who are silenced.
854
00:53:21,966 --> 00:53:23,778
Silence is a part of the agreement.
855
00:53:23,868 --> 00:53:26,568
Did this troll
ever offer to settle with you?
856
00:53:26,658 --> 00:53:30,210
Um, we did end up settling this case.
857
00:53:30,475 --> 00:53:31,575
For how much.
858
00:53:31,665 --> 00:53:33,031
We have not disclosed that.
859
00:53:33,121 --> 00:53:36,524
-Are you allowed to disclose it?
-No. - Why not?
860
00:53:36,614 --> 00:53:39,514
I don't want to get into that.
861
00:53:42,487 --> 00:53:44,187
Can we turn this off for a second?
862
00:53:44,277 --> 00:53:45,533
Turn it off.
863
00:53:45,623 --> 00:53:49,837
Tell me about the
success that you've enjoyed
864
00:53:49,927 --> 00:53:53,959
from the products
you've brought to market.
865
00:53:54,365 --> 00:53:57,265
I'm not able to discuss that.
866
00:53:59,770 --> 00:54:01,330
Why?
867
00:54:02,540 --> 00:54:03,540
Um...
868
00:54:07,878 --> 00:54:09,878
Because sometimes...
869
00:54:13,984 --> 00:54:15,664
Hold it a sec.
870
00:54:16,354 --> 00:54:18,213
On, okay...
871
00:54:18,303 --> 00:54:23,971
Can you tell me...
They... they can actually, anyway...
872
00:54:24,061 --> 00:54:31,069
Can you tell me... If anyone
else has taken credit for your work?
873
00:54:34,605 --> 00:54:38,829
It's probably better
that I not discuss that.
874
00:54:42,947 --> 00:54:47,995
They're not even allowed to tell
anyone what happened to them.
875
00:54:48,085 --> 00:54:53,934
And as a result, the problem can
never be made public and solved.
876
00:54:54,024 --> 00:54:56,771
What court would even allow this?
877
00:54:56,861 --> 00:55:00,040
It's mostly in Texas, unfortunately.
878
00:55:00,130 --> 00:55:04,545
There's one particular district,
the eastern district of Texas,
879
00:55:04,635 --> 00:55:09,284
that is perceived as being
very favorable to patent owners,
880
00:55:09,374 --> 00:55:15,022
and, uh, over a thousand patent
troll lawsuits are filed there every year.
881
00:55:15,112 --> 00:55:16,991
Why do they pick Texas?
882
00:55:17,081 --> 00:55:19,581
It's a number of reasons.
883
00:55:20,150 --> 00:55:24,758
The patent trolls pick
Texas because they believe
884
00:55:25,423 --> 00:55:28,469
that the juries there are
friendly to patent owners.
885
00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:33,708
They pick Texas because they
believe that the local rules of practice
886
00:55:33,798 --> 00:55:38,613
are favorable to patent owners and
make defending a case very expensive.
887
00:55:38,703 --> 00:55:43,422
And they pick Texas just because it's far
away from a lot of the people getting sued
888
00:55:43,512 --> 00:55:45,768
and that alone creates financial pressure,
889
00:55:45,858 --> 00:55:48,689
because that's a distant
and inconvenient forum.
890
00:55:48,779 --> 00:55:52,579
So the place in Texas, is it
like some place right inside of Dallas
891
00:55:52,669 --> 00:55:55,969
where you come into DFW and get
right to work defending ourselves?
892
00:55:56,059 --> 00:55:59,534
The eastern district of
Texas is to the east of Dallas
893
00:55:59,624 --> 00:56:05,706
and the courthouses where most of
the patent litigation are taking place
894
00:56:05,796 --> 00:56:10,411
are in Marshall and Tyler
which are smaller cities
895
00:56:10,501 --> 00:56:13,414
uh, getting closer to
the Louisiana border.
896
00:56:13,504 --> 00:56:16,817
So tell me about the computer industry
897
00:56:16,907 --> 00:56:19,454
that happens in Tyler,
Texas and Marshall, Texas
898
00:56:19,544 --> 00:56:22,094
that made them such a
good venue for these lawsuits
899
00:56:22,184 --> 00:56:24,484
where we know we can
get knowledgeable juries.
900
00:56:24,574 --> 00:56:29,029
The Tyler and Marshall,
Texas are not, uh, centers
901
00:56:29,119 --> 00:56:32,667
of the United States
technology development.
902
00:56:32,757 --> 00:56:36,771
They're... they're more
known for the litigation itself
903
00:56:36,861 --> 00:56:41,434
and, uh, they've actually created a
large industry of litigation support,
904
00:56:41,524 --> 00:56:43,921
and a lot of work for the lawyers there.
905
00:56:44,011 --> 00:56:47,445
But, uh, I don't know if any
large technology companies
906
00:56:47,535 --> 00:56:50,654
that are actually creating
products out of these cities.
907
00:56:50,744 --> 00:56:55,022
Most of the time, particularly when
you're dealing with these patent trolls,
908
00:56:55,112 --> 00:56:57,112
you're not dealing with a real business.
909
00:56:57,202 --> 00:57:02,986
You're dealing with something that is a
post office box somewhere in Tyler, Texas.
910
00:57:03,076 --> 00:57:07,535
We actually got sued again, this
time from a non-practicing entity
911
00:57:07,625 --> 00:57:09,825
out of east Texas,
where they all come from.
912
00:57:09,915 --> 00:57:14,060
The most shocking thing was... was finding
out that there's a... The east district
913
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:18,534
uh, east Texas, uh, district court
where a lot of patent cases are filed.
914
00:57:18,624 --> 00:57:22,550
No businesses are located in east
Texas, except patent trolls. Right?
915
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:28,552
Why? Because that jurisdiction is
most sympathetic um, for patent trolls
916
00:57:28,642 --> 00:57:31,992
and is very expensive for
businesses to go and, uh, litigate there.
917
00:57:32,082 --> 00:57:34,665
The... it's a cottage
industry for the entire city,
918
00:57:34,755 --> 00:57:36,497
so, all the jurors are corrupt.
919
00:57:36,587 --> 00:57:38,787
You know, all the...
All the people who work
920
00:57:38,877 --> 00:57:44,539
for the courts are corrupted by this...
this... This patent troll industry.
921
00:57:44,629 --> 00:57:46,279
Could this even be true?
922
00:57:46,369 --> 00:57:50,811
I quickly found a website
that laid all the figures out,
923
00:57:50,901 --> 00:57:53,614
and the statistics were staggering.
924
00:57:53,704 --> 00:58:00,136
44% of all the patent infringement
lawsuits in the entire country
925
00:58:00,244 --> 00:58:05,524
are being filed in one tiny,
isolated district of Texas.
926
00:58:06,083 --> 00:58:11,747
And 95% of those cases are
filed by non-practicing entities.
927
00:58:12,089 --> 00:58:13,589
Companies that invent nothing.
928
00:58:13,679 --> 00:58:15,679
They just file patent lawsuits.
929
00:58:15,769 --> 00:58:18,419
Now I was on to
something, I signed up for
930
00:58:18,509 --> 00:58:21,158
an insider analytic
site called Lex Machina,
931
00:58:21,248 --> 00:58:25,484
and did a search of all the patent
lawsuits being filed in the U.S.,
932
00:58:25,574 --> 00:58:28,596
and I started to see
something very peculiar.
933
00:58:28,686 --> 00:58:33,087
The same name kept appearing on
a huge percentage of these lawsuits:
934
00:58:33,177 --> 00:58:35,877
William Elsworth Davis III.
935
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:42,563
His name is listed as a lawyer in
419 patent infringement lawsuits.
936
00:58:42,653 --> 00:58:44,732
Another name kept coming up:
937
00:58:44,822 --> 00:58:46,922
Thomas John Ward, Jr.
938
00:58:47,825 --> 00:58:54,008
His name is listed as a lawyer in
725 patent infringement lawsuits.
939
00:58:54,098 --> 00:59:00,818
So, well over a thousand cases were
handled by two very busy lawyers
940
00:59:01,071 --> 00:59:03,818
all in the eastern district of Texas.
941
00:59:03,908 --> 00:59:07,187
It just doesn't seem possible somehow.
942
00:59:07,277 --> 00:59:12,927
Then, I started looking to see what
judges were handling these cases.
943
00:59:13,017 --> 00:59:15,195
And that's when I saw it:
944
00:59:15,285 --> 00:59:19,221
Judge Leonard Davis, and Judge John Ward?
945
00:59:23,628 --> 00:59:30,924
Beau Davis is Judge Leonard Davis'
son, Johnny Ward is Judge John Ward's son.
946
00:59:31,669 --> 00:59:35,413
The lawyers are the sons of the judges.
947
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:40,154
So, if Judge Leonard Davis and John
Ward can encourage more patent trolls
948
00:59:40,244 --> 00:59:43,924
to file more lawsuits in
the eastern district of Texas,
949
00:59:44,014 --> 00:59:49,096
then their sons are the ones
who will rack up the billable hours,
950
00:59:49,186 --> 00:59:53,267
or perhaps, a percentage of the take.
951
00:59:53,357 --> 00:59:58,773
Now, both Judge Leonard Davis and
John Ward have just recently retired,
952
00:59:58,863 --> 01:00:02,610
and they've gone to
work for the very law firms
953
01:00:02,700 --> 01:00:05,680
that represent the patent
trolls and their victims.
954
01:00:05,770 --> 01:00:08,149
Now that the eastern
district of Texas has
955
01:00:08,239 --> 01:00:10,618
been established as
a patent trolling haven,
956
01:00:10,708 --> 01:00:15,923
the judges are working at the
law firms that handle the cases.
957
01:00:16,013 --> 01:00:20,961
The odds of getting a case
dismissed uh, early, on a rule 11 motion
958
01:00:21,051 --> 01:00:25,065
or on summary judgment, almost
impossible, to the point where
959
01:00:25,155 --> 01:00:27,101
I think many defendants were counseled
960
01:00:27,191 --> 01:00:30,605
by their other outside counsel
to not even bother filing those.
961
01:00:30,695 --> 01:00:32,972
You know, summary
judgment motions because...
962
01:00:33,062 --> 01:00:35,075
And the outside counsel again would...
963
01:00:35,165 --> 01:00:38,345
Would say things like, "You
don't wanna piss off the judge.
964
01:00:38,435 --> 01:00:41,749
Because he's gonna
get upset with you for filing this."
965
01:00:41,839 --> 01:00:43,951
You know, why they do it, only they know.
966
01:00:44,041 --> 01:00:46,341
It's between them and
it's between god, right?
967
01:00:46,431 --> 01:00:51,826
But, there are judges in east
Texas that, um, you know, have...
968
01:00:51,916 --> 01:00:56,030
They... they use discretion in certain
circumstances that we've become aware of.
969
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:59,266
For example, where someone
files a venue transfer motion.
970
01:00:59,356 --> 01:01:01,656
If the judge denies the
venue transfer motion,
971
01:01:01,746 --> 01:01:04,591
there's a pretty darn
good case that on appeal,
972
01:01:04,681 --> 01:01:07,274
um, that... that judge will be overturned
973
01:01:07,364 --> 01:01:09,564
by the fifth circuit
or the federal circuit.
974
01:01:09,654 --> 01:01:12,713
And so the way that the
judge gets around, um,
975
01:01:12,803 --> 01:01:17,507
being overturned is...
He just doesn't rule on it.
976
01:01:17,842 --> 01:01:22,571
He just will not rule on the venue
transfer motion until right before trial.
977
01:01:22,661 --> 01:01:25,427
And judges can take...
There are some judges, like...
978
01:01:25,517 --> 01:01:29,149
Like east... In east Texas, they
continue to refuse to fee shift.
979
01:01:29,239 --> 01:01:33,268
They essentially are, you know, a post...
in the post-octane world,
980
01:01:33,358 --> 01:01:35,808
half of all fee shifting
cases have been granted.
981
01:01:35,898 --> 01:01:37,353
Fee shifts have been granted.
982
01:01:37,443 --> 01:01:41,676
In east Texas, since octane was...
was, ah, was issued by the supreme court,
983
01:01:41,766 --> 01:01:44,146
there have been zero
fee shifts, until finally
984
01:01:44,236 --> 01:01:46,347
it just got so damned egregious, right?
985
01:01:46,437 --> 01:01:50,284
It finally got so egregious that
people started filing what are called
986
01:01:50,374 --> 01:01:54,221
writs of mandamus up to the fifth
circuit and up to the federal circuit.
987
01:01:54,311 --> 01:01:57,261
But there are companies,
right, that at the end of the day,
988
01:01:57,351 --> 01:01:59,951
either because they've
been victimized so many times
989
01:02:00,041 --> 01:02:04,999
or because the companies have principles,
they realize somebody's gotta do it.
990
01:02:05,089 --> 01:02:07,822
Someone's gotta do
it, and if we don't do it,
991
01:02:07,912 --> 01:02:12,349
if people don't complain and start
building up a record, of abuse...
992
01:02:12,439 --> 01:02:15,950
Of just wrong-doing, or abuse.
Yeah, it's not wrong.
993
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:21,448
It's technically not wrong, but certainly
abuse... This'll just continue forever.
994
01:02:21,538 --> 01:02:24,819
So the judges never
toss out patent trolling lawsuits,
995
01:02:24,909 --> 01:02:27,087
no matter how ridiculous the claims.
996
01:02:27,177 --> 01:02:30,057
The judges never grant your
motion for a change of venue,
997
01:02:30,147 --> 01:02:32,192
no matter what state you live in.
998
01:02:32,282 --> 01:02:35,282
The judges never make the
patent trolls pay your legal fees,
999
01:02:35,372 --> 01:02:37,832
no matter how asinine the lawsuit.
1000
01:02:37,922 --> 01:02:41,363
The lawyer advises
you to not even ask for
1001
01:02:41,453 --> 01:02:45,405
these things because
it might anger the judge.
1002
01:02:45,495 --> 01:02:48,375
And this is a venue where I'm being sued?
1003
01:02:48,465 --> 01:02:51,278
Shakespeare said, "There's
something rotten in Denmark,"
1004
01:02:51,368 --> 01:02:55,400
I say, what the heck is going on in Texas?
1005
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:10,464
Armed with the first 55
patent infringement lawsuits I could find
1006
01:03:10,554 --> 01:03:14,372
in Marshall, Tyler, and Longview,
all in the eastern district of Texas,
1007
01:03:14,462 --> 01:03:19,306
off I went to the address of
every company on that list.
1008
01:03:19,396 --> 01:03:21,976
First stop, Marshall, Texas.
1009
01:03:22,066 --> 01:03:25,416
Of course, I imagined Marshall to
be a thriving business community.
1010
01:03:25,506 --> 01:03:28,656
I mean, with all these big tech
companies, lawyers, and courts,
1011
01:03:28,746 --> 01:03:34,088
their airport was sure to be busy and
bustling with lots of air traffic, right?
1012
01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:00,047
Here's the wi-lan office,
uh, as far as I can tell.
1013
01:04:00,137 --> 01:04:03,287
So we can come and see...
why don't we bring the camera around,
1014
01:04:03,377 --> 01:04:09,329
and see what's... See what's,
uh, going on in this office here.
1015
01:04:09,579 --> 01:04:15,863
This is, uh, just a few days after
they received $33 million for patents,
1016
01:04:15,953 --> 01:04:20,034
and, uh, this is in the middle
of the day on a Thursday.
1017
01:04:20,124 --> 01:04:21,824
Let's keep going.
1018
01:04:24,929 --> 01:04:31,211
Here we have Perdiemco, uh, Perdiemco
filed a patent infringement lawsuit.
1019
01:04:32,569 --> 01:04:33,569
Hello?
1020
01:04:37,607 --> 01:04:38,607
Hello?
1021
01:04:39,209 --> 01:04:45,192
We'll keep walking. If they
come out, we'll... Go talk to them.
1022
01:04:45,282 --> 01:04:49,629
This is the office, uh, listed
for a company called Lodsys,
1023
01:04:49,719 --> 01:04:52,738
uh, and if anybody wants
to travel to Marshall, Texas
1024
01:04:52,828 --> 01:04:56,436
and see it for themselves,
we're at 505 East Travis street.
1025
01:04:56,526 --> 01:05:00,401
Lodsys is well known as being
one of the biggest patent desertion
1026
01:05:00,491 --> 01:05:04,979
entities in the world, uh, they sue
a lot people for patent infringement.
1027
01:05:05,069 --> 01:05:06,749
This is their address.
1028
01:05:07,349 --> 01:05:08,349
Hello?
1029
01:05:11,308 --> 01:05:16,957
And they claim to be from, um,
Marshall, Texas, where we are now.
1030
01:05:17,047 --> 01:05:18,947
Let's keep walking.
1031
01:05:23,420 --> 01:05:28,202
Here, we have, uh, a company
called Packet Intelligence,
1032
01:05:28,292 --> 01:05:31,972
they have filed, uh, two
lawsuits for patent infringement.
1033
01:05:33,152 --> 01:05:34,152
Hello?
1034
01:05:35,099 --> 01:05:37,413
We've been walking up
and down these halls for
1035
01:05:37,503 --> 01:05:40,080
about 25 minutes now
looking for, uh, for anyone.
1036
01:05:40,170 --> 01:05:42,216
And, uh, no one's been here.
1037
01:05:42,306 --> 01:05:48,222
But a large number of patent infringement
lawsuits come out of this hallway.
1038
01:05:48,312 --> 01:05:51,112
Well, I guess we'll
go to the next address.
1039
01:05:53,748 --> 01:05:57,598
It's been empty for... We looked at that
space, 'cause when we moved in here.
1040
01:05:57,688 --> 01:05:59,466
-Mm-hmm.
-It's been empty.
1041
01:05:59,556 --> 01:06:01,106
No one's in their office today.
1042
01:06:01,196 --> 01:06:02,396
No one's in there today?
1043
01:06:02,486 --> 01:06:03,486
-Nope.
-Oh.
1044
01:06:03,576 --> 01:06:05,339
Hm, maybe knock on the door?
1045
01:06:05,429 --> 01:06:07,029
No one's down there.
1046
01:06:11,801 --> 01:06:14,816
This is the address,
uh, used for a lawsuit
1047
01:06:14,906 --> 01:06:18,152
for patent infringement
that Follycode filed.
1048
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:22,705
How about Lake Cherokee
Hard Drive, can we see them?
1049
01:06:22,795 --> 01:06:25,993
Uh, no, this is just the
accounting firm, we do the...
1050
01:06:26,083 --> 01:06:28,783
Oh I see...
what about Blue Bonnet Telecommunications?
1051
01:06:28,873 --> 01:06:31,731
-Same thing.
-What about Star Code I.E.D. Technologies?
1052
01:06:31,821 --> 01:06:33,167
They're all the same.
1053
01:06:33,257 --> 01:06:34,757
Oh, they're not actually here.
1054
01:06:34,847 --> 01:06:37,237
The only entity here is A&G LLP.
1055
01:06:37,327 --> 01:06:39,827
Are these companies here?
1056
01:06:40,764 --> 01:06:43,477
Um, I serve as a
registered agent for them.
1057
01:06:43,567 --> 01:06:44,567
I see.
1058
01:06:45,169 --> 01:06:46,719
They are located in east Texas.
1059
01:06:46,809 --> 01:06:48,609
Can you say where?
1060
01:06:48,838 --> 01:06:51,438
Uh...
1061
01:06:53,577 --> 01:06:56,036
When I went up to suite 1504,
1062
01:06:56,126 --> 01:06:59,244
I saw a company called
Collins Investigations.
1063
01:06:59,334 --> 01:07:01,718
You see, these companies
are filling lawsuits
1064
01:07:01,808 --> 01:07:03,972
that cost $3 million to defend against,
1065
01:07:04,062 --> 01:07:08,310
and they're all based right here in
your office that's about 15 feet wide.
1066
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:09,400
What's going on?
1067
01:07:09,490 --> 01:07:12,023
And he said, "Well,
patents are property just like
1068
01:07:12,113 --> 01:07:14,541
anything else, and I
have no further comment."
1069
01:07:14,631 --> 01:07:17,644
And that's when they,
uh, showed me the door,
1070
01:07:17,734 --> 01:07:21,248
uh, and closed the door in my
face, and this is the next thing I saw.
1071
01:07:21,338 --> 01:07:25,466
"Baxter Building, Law
Offices," on the door.
1072
01:07:26,110 --> 01:07:31,025
The address for many many companies
that file patent infringement lawsuits.
1073
01:07:31,115 --> 01:07:35,662
The baxter building law
offices, 104 East Houston Street.
1074
01:07:35,752 --> 01:07:39,304
Mckool Smith, sounds like a law firm.
1075
01:07:41,358 --> 01:07:42,918
Mckool Smith.
1076
01:07:45,495 --> 01:07:47,595
Empty, nothing there.
1077
01:07:50,434 --> 01:07:53,410
Leggat Hagan, whatever that is.
1078
01:07:55,739 --> 01:08:00,087
East Texas Boot Company,
gotta see who they are.
1079
01:08:23,433 --> 01:08:29,865
So, We're here at 211
West Tyler, - -On... it's a...
1080
01:08:30,940 --> 01:08:33,553
An address that a lot
of lawsuits come from.
1081
01:08:33,643 --> 01:08:37,291
There doesn't seem to be anybody here.
1082
01:08:37,581 --> 01:08:42,765
So, uh, this company's
been suing, uh, Intel, Dell, HP.
1083
01:08:43,687 --> 01:08:48,135
Yet, as far as what they produce,
well, their office is kind of this...
1084
01:08:48,225 --> 01:08:52,595
Kind of run-down place with
blackout shades and curtain behind it.
1085
01:08:52,685 --> 01:08:58,578
When I look up Aloft Media, "Aloft
Media sues 10 COS. Over weather patent."
1086
01:08:58,668 --> 01:09:01,815
"Aloft Media sues s.A.P.
Over messaging patent."
1087
01:09:01,905 --> 01:09:04,784
"Aloft Media LLC versus Yahoo."
1088
01:09:04,874 --> 01:09:10,657
"Adobe, Microsoft, accused of
infringing on browser-related patents."
1089
01:09:10,747 --> 01:09:13,747
If you're wondering where
these patent infringement lawsuits
1090
01:09:13,837 --> 01:09:18,232
are coming from, if it's from
Aloft, or Stragent, or Azure, this is it.
1091
01:09:18,322 --> 01:09:23,303
So, uh... I guess this is, uh, I
guess this is, uh, innovation,
1092
01:09:23,393 --> 01:09:25,993
American innovation, yeah.
1093
01:09:28,265 --> 01:09:32,679
55 addresses,
each one a so-called business
1094
01:09:32,769 --> 01:09:36,483
that was spewing out nothing
but patent infringement lawsuits.
1095
01:09:36,573 --> 01:09:39,586
Almost every office was
deserted or registered agent,
1096
01:09:39,676 --> 01:09:43,323
or in one case, a mailbox at a UPS store.
1097
01:09:43,413 --> 01:09:49,269
But the businesses claimed in
the lawsuits did not even exist.
1098
01:09:55,459 --> 01:09:59,011
And the lawsuits just keep on coming.
1099
01:09:59,896 --> 01:10:02,886
The people behind the curtain
do not want to be discovered.
1100
01:10:02,976 --> 01:10:04,076
You know who they are?
1101
01:10:04,166 --> 01:10:05,166
No.
1102
01:10:05,535 --> 01:10:06,835
But there has to be.
1103
01:10:06,925 --> 01:10:09,683
Some way we can find
someone on the inside.
1104
01:10:09,773 --> 01:10:13,253
Someone that's a real... Patent troll.
1105
01:10:13,343 --> 01:10:17,963
There was the famous case of the scanner
troll, who sent thousands of letters
1106
01:10:18,053 --> 01:10:22,853
to small businesses demanding payment
for companies that used scan to email.
1107
01:10:22,943 --> 01:10:25,565
No, no, we all
ready know who that guy is.
1108
01:10:25,655 --> 01:10:27,301
That's Steven Hill. Next.
1109
01:10:27,391 --> 01:10:33,873
There was a patent troll that sent
thousands of letters to cafes and hotels,
1110
01:10:33,963 --> 01:10:36,438
and a bakery, and a funeral parlor,
1111
01:10:36,528 --> 01:10:39,579
Demanding payment
just for providing wi-fi.
1112
01:10:39,669 --> 01:10:42,749
Ah. I don't know about that one.
1113
01:10:42,839 --> 01:10:44,289
Let's see, patent troll says.
1114
01:10:44,379 --> 01:10:48,411
ANYONE USING Wi-Fi
INFRINGES ON HIS PATENT.
1115
01:10:49,379 --> 01:10:53,360
He won't sue individuals at this stage.
1116
01:10:53,450 --> 01:10:54,561
The guy behind this?
1117
01:10:54,651 --> 01:10:57,551
A lawyer, named Raymond Niro.
1118
01:10:58,488 --> 01:11:00,900
A real life patent troll in chicago.
1119
01:11:00,990 --> 01:11:02,857
I gotta see this for myself.
1120
01:11:10,334 --> 01:11:16,550
I am the person that was involved in the
whole business of what a patent troll is.
1121
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:17,784
Patents are property.
1122
01:11:17,874 --> 01:11:21,321
They're issued by the
government, after an examination.
1123
01:11:21,411 --> 01:11:24,591
And then a court looks at them
and says they're good or bad.
1124
01:11:24,681 --> 01:11:30,610
If I have a patent for wi-fi, that's
specific, and is useful and novel,
1125
01:11:30,700 --> 01:11:32,633
then yeah, it's my property.
1126
01:11:32,723 --> 01:11:36,109
And if you infringe it, you
have to pay me a license fee.
1127
01:11:36,199 --> 01:11:39,968
But I would wanna look more
carefully at what somebody's telling you,
1128
01:11:40,058 --> 01:11:43,378
that they were abused by
somebody that sent them a letter
1129
01:11:43,468 --> 01:11:47,202
and they went out of business because
of it, because I'm not buying that.
1130
01:11:47,292 --> 01:11:49,442
You come to me and
say, "mister Niro, there
1131
01:11:49,532 --> 01:11:51,782
are a bunch of people
that are using my idea.
1132
01:11:51,872 --> 01:11:52,986
Can you help me?"
1133
01:11:53,076 --> 01:11:55,926
I say, "Sure, I'll try to help
you, license your patent".
1134
01:11:56,016 --> 01:11:57,056
I go talk to them.
1135
01:11:57,146 --> 01:12:00,127
I say, "Listen, you're
using this guy's invention.
1136
01:12:00,217 --> 01:12:01,717
You gotta pay them a royalty."
1137
01:12:01,807 --> 01:12:03,698
"No, I'm not gonna pay him."
1138
01:12:03,788 --> 01:12:04,865
What do we do?
1139
01:12:04,955 --> 01:12:07,934
I go to you and I say,
"What do you want to do?"
1140
01:12:08,024 --> 01:12:10,069
You say, you know, "I wanna stop them."
1141
01:12:10,159 --> 01:12:11,538
I want them to pay me.
1142
01:12:11,628 --> 01:12:13,607
They're stealing my property.
1143
01:12:13,697 --> 01:12:16,042
They came to my house and took my goods.
1144
01:12:16,132 --> 01:12:18,845
They went on my farm and took my animals.
1145
01:12:18,935 --> 01:12:21,381
They infringed my patent.
1146
01:12:21,471 --> 01:12:23,417
"They took my property."
1147
01:12:23,507 --> 01:12:25,319
I say, "Okay, I'll help you."
1148
01:12:25,409 --> 01:12:27,921
If it's meritorious, I'll help you.
1149
01:12:28,011 --> 01:12:29,856
Is there something wrong with that?
1150
01:12:29,946 --> 01:12:31,024
Is that un-american?
1151
01:12:31,114 --> 01:12:32,959
Is that wrong? I don't get it.
1152
01:12:33,049 --> 01:12:35,249
You know, I tell juries
in closing argument,
1153
01:12:35,339 --> 01:12:40,867
I say, a patent is sorta like having a
property, and you build a flower patch.
1154
01:12:40,957 --> 01:12:44,338
My wife loves flowers.
I build a flower patch in my front yard.
1155
01:12:44,428 --> 01:12:45,505
Beautiful flowers.
1156
01:12:45,595 --> 01:12:48,995
Maybe even I commercialize it,
but I don't have to commercialize it,
1157
01:12:49,085 --> 01:12:51,385
I don't have to have a
nursery, and sell them.
1158
01:12:51,475 --> 01:12:55,449
And beautiful... It's my property,
I paid for it. I grow the flowers.
1159
01:12:55,539 --> 01:12:58,418
And some guy comes along
and walks right through it.
1160
01:12:58,508 --> 01:13:00,387
Crushes the flowers.
1161
01:13:00,477 --> 01:13:02,177
Puts a path right down the middle.
1162
01:13:02,267 --> 01:13:03,657
What am I supposed to say?
1163
01:13:03,747 --> 01:13:05,659
"Oh, that's great? It's okay.
1164
01:13:05,749 --> 01:13:08,462
You can trespass on my property?"
1165
01:13:08,552 --> 01:13:10,864
No, you say, "I don't
want you to do that."
1166
01:13:10,954 --> 01:13:13,900
That's a patent lawsuit.
That's patent infringement.
1167
01:13:13,990 --> 01:13:19,206
You have trespassed on my property,
and all I'm asking you, to do two things.
1168
01:13:19,296 --> 01:13:22,242
Stop doing it, and pay
me for the compensation,
1169
01:13:22,332 --> 01:13:25,613
for replanting the flowers
that you just destroyed.
1170
01:13:25,703 --> 01:13:27,415
Is that bad? Is that evil?
1171
01:13:27,505 --> 01:13:29,217
Is that wrong? I don't think so.
1172
01:13:29,307 --> 01:13:31,157
I'd like to have somebody show me the
1173
01:13:31,247 --> 01:13:33,571
statistics on how often
this doomsday scenario
1174
01:13:33,661 --> 01:13:36,491
that you guys seem to be
portraying really happens.
1175
01:13:36,581 --> 01:13:38,910
How frequently is a
company run out of business
1176
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:41,066
'cause of a patent infringement lawsuit?
1177
01:13:41,156 --> 01:13:44,833
You know what, I'll bet you can't
find a hundred cases like that.
1178
01:13:44,923 --> 01:13:50,005
And if you can find a hundred cases like
that, then let congress take care of it.
1179
01:13:50,095 --> 01:13:51,975
But 1,000? 2,000? Never happens.
1180
01:13:52,065 --> 01:13:55,647
Show me the statistics that
this type of abuse of process,
1181
01:13:55,737 --> 01:13:58,137
has driven a thousand
companies out of business.
1182
01:13:58,227 --> 01:14:02,027
Show me that. If you can show me that,
get the thousand people, line 'em up,
1183
01:14:02,117 --> 01:14:03,810
and have them sign an affidavit.
1184
01:14:03,900 --> 01:14:06,365
"I was driven out of
business 'cause of a patent
1185
01:14:06,455 --> 01:14:08,760
infringement suit that
cost me $3 million."
1186
01:14:08,850 --> 01:14:13,041
You know what? I don't think you can get
a thousand. I don't think you can get 500.
1187
01:14:13,131 --> 01:14:16,599
I don't even think you can get 100.
But I challenge you to do it.
1188
01:14:16,689 --> 01:14:19,112
You can't do it because people that are
1189
01:14:19,202 --> 01:14:22,037
sued are locked up in their
non-disclosure agreements.
1190
01:14:22,127 --> 01:14:25,159
They're not allowed to talk
about what happened to them.
1191
01:14:25,249 --> 01:14:27,528
That's why you can't
get a thousand people.
1192
01:14:27,618 --> 01:14:29,610
Nonsense. They can talk about it.
1193
01:14:29,700 --> 01:14:33,914
...Because they are forced to
settle because the alternative was to...
1194
01:14:34,004 --> 01:14:36,351
Who? Who was forced to settle? Who?
1195
01:14:36,441 --> 01:14:39,785
The people that signed
the non-disclosure agreement.
1196
01:14:39,875 --> 01:14:41,841
Who are the people? Who are the people?
1197
01:14:41,931 --> 01:14:45,119
Identify the people. Give me the list.
Give me their names.
1198
01:14:45,209 --> 01:14:47,592
Give me their addresses.
Give me the lawsuit.
1199
01:14:47,682 --> 01:14:49,467
You know what? You can't do it.
1200
01:14:49,557 --> 01:14:55,317
You know why you can't do it?
You bought into the propaganda.
1201
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:18,958
-You know what? You can't do it.
-You know why you can't do it?
1202
01:15:19,048 --> 01:15:20,660
You bought into the propaganda.
1203
01:15:20,750 --> 01:15:25,098
If McKool Smith and other firms of
significance stopped taking patent cases,
1204
01:15:25,188 --> 01:15:28,334
where are the people that have
meritorious inventions, where
1205
01:15:28,424 --> 01:15:29,769
where are they gonna go?
1206
01:15:29,859 --> 01:15:31,571
Whoa! Stop, stop, stop.
1207
01:15:31,661 --> 01:15:36,275
Time out. McKool
Smith, McKool Smith I know that name.
1208
01:15:36,365 --> 01:15:38,612
Where have I heard that name?
1209
01:15:38,702 --> 01:15:39,946
That's right.
1210
01:15:40,036 --> 01:15:44,584
There were McKool Smith signs
all over that patent troll hive in Texas
1211
01:15:44,674 --> 01:15:48,722
that spat out all those lawsuits from
those abandoned office buildings.
1212
01:15:48,812 --> 01:15:52,225
Of course Raymond Niro
knows who McKool Smith is.
1213
01:15:52,315 --> 01:15:58,632
The deeper I dug, the more I realized that
this network of greed was interconnected.
1214
01:15:58,722 --> 01:16:02,172
And there's something interesting
about this address too, by the way.
1215
01:16:02,262 --> 01:16:03,970
McKool Smith's own office,
1216
01:16:04,060 --> 01:16:07,974
which we have now confirmed
is actually just a patent troll hive,
1217
01:16:08,064 --> 01:16:15,314
is across the street from the courthouse
where the patent troll cases are tried.
1218
01:16:15,404 --> 01:16:22,316
Where we find Jellyfish Technology
of Texas, in Motion LLC, Arksar LLC
1219
01:16:23,312 --> 01:16:28,976
Marshall Feature Recognition
LLC, Hopewell Culture Design...
1220
01:16:30,954 --> 01:16:36,169
Weiland Technologies,
Specialized Monitoring Solutions LLC,
1221
01:16:36,259 --> 01:16:38,872
they're all at 104 East Houston street.
1222
01:16:38,962 --> 01:16:43,180
On all these companies, they've
all filed patent infringement lawsuits,
1223
01:16:43,270 --> 01:16:46,312
and they're all at the exact same address.
1224
01:16:46,402 --> 01:16:47,781
What is that address?
1225
01:16:47,871 --> 01:16:51,618
Well, here we are at the
courthouse, look across the street,
1226
01:16:51,708 --> 01:16:54,972
and we see 104 East Houston street
1227
01:16:55,278 --> 01:16:58,628
if the judges and juries hearing
these patent infringement lawsuits
1228
01:16:58,718 --> 01:17:02,762
wanted to find out what
"business" were filing these lawsuits,
1229
01:17:02,852 --> 01:17:06,596
they would have to walk about 50 yards.
1230
01:17:07,757 --> 01:17:10,725
The juries would have
to walk about 50 yards
1231
01:17:10,815 --> 01:17:13,940
to see that the lawsuits
that they're hearing
1232
01:17:14,030 --> 01:17:18,111
are coming from abandoned
offices across the street.
1233
01:17:18,201 --> 01:17:25,251
And the lawyers and judges in east Texas
are dragging these lawsuits out for years.
1234
01:17:25,341 --> 01:17:27,921
So Kevin said these
people are all corrupt.
1235
01:17:28,011 --> 01:17:30,711
That is a heck of a charge.
1236
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:36,029
But, we've seen these trials
being held across the street
1237
01:17:36,119 --> 01:17:41,067
from the patent troll hives
that spew out the lawsuits.
1238
01:17:41,157 --> 01:17:43,657
Where the juries would
have to walk about 50 yards
1239
01:17:43,747 --> 01:17:46,956
to see that the businesses
filing the lawsuits don't even exist.
1240
01:17:47,046 --> 01:17:50,848
We've seen the judges that
never toss out these lawsuits,
1241
01:17:50,938 --> 01:17:55,267
no matter how asinine they are,
while their sons are racking up
1242
01:17:55,357 --> 01:17:59,686
the billable hours representing
the trolls and their victims.
1243
01:17:59,776 --> 01:18:02,822
We've seen manufactured victims,
1244
01:18:02,912 --> 01:18:07,426
clearly empty companies that
could not be hurt in any way,
1245
01:18:07,516 --> 01:18:11,130
by the rest of us working for a living.
1246
01:18:11,220 --> 01:18:13,366
But is it always this way?
1247
01:18:13,456 --> 01:18:18,928
Could it ever be that a lawyer
might actually find someone
1248
01:18:19,162 --> 01:18:25,178
that believes he's the first person
to think of some obvious idea?
1249
01:18:25,268 --> 01:18:27,418
Well, you remember
our friend, Mike Skelps?
1250
01:18:27,508 --> 01:18:29,802
He makes a living by
going to marathon races
1251
01:18:29,892 --> 01:18:32,185
and photographing all
the marathon runners.
1252
01:18:32,275 --> 01:18:34,338
When he's done photographing the race,
1253
01:18:34,428 --> 01:18:37,156
he uploads each runner's
picture to his website,
1254
01:18:37,246 --> 01:18:40,359
so you can look up the
pictures by the bib number.
1255
01:18:40,449 --> 01:18:43,262
You know, the number
on the marathon runner.
1256
01:18:43,352 --> 01:18:47,867
Needless to say, Mike was sued for patent
infringement, and the guy that sued him,
1257
01:18:47,957 --> 01:18:54,389
claimed to own the idea of looking
up a marathon runner's picture
1258
01:18:54,798 --> 01:18:57,498
by the number on his chest.
1259
01:18:58,534 --> 01:19:02,181
Who would take out
such a ridiculous patent?
1260
01:19:02,271 --> 01:19:03,850
Meet Peter Wolf.
1261
01:19:03,940 --> 01:19:10,056
The essence of the patent was to
allow people to search for their pictures,
1262
01:19:10,146 --> 01:19:15,494
event pictures, of...
of marathon runners, or... or triathletes.
1263
01:19:15,584 --> 01:19:21,920
Uh, to allow them to search by bib
numbers using a computer system.
1264
01:19:22,325 --> 01:19:25,825
Marathon photos started their
business their business in the mid '70s,
1265
01:19:25,915 --> 01:19:29,175
so that had been around for a long time.
1266
01:19:29,265 --> 01:19:35,505
Uh, what I came up with in 1999
involved doing it on the internet.
1267
01:19:36,372 --> 01:19:38,752
It's a method of doing business.
1268
01:19:38,842 --> 01:19:40,453
And what is the method?
1269
01:19:40,543 --> 01:19:44,233
The method is to allow people to order the
1270
01:19:44,323 --> 01:19:48,739
pictures online, as
opposed to the other method
1271
01:19:49,385 --> 01:19:54,300
of going through the postal office
and sending letters back and forth.
1272
01:19:54,390 --> 01:19:59,205
The difference is I'm not
sure if I can even explain it.
1273
01:19:59,295 --> 01:20:06,879
It's... More... For attorneys to
hover over and recognize the difference.
1274
01:20:07,503 --> 01:20:13,722
You know, I'm fairly lay at this, but
uh... So in 2006, when the patent issued.
1275
01:20:14,643 --> 01:20:16,856
I thought I was home free.
1276
01:20:16,946 --> 01:20:21,427
I ended up contacting some attorneys
and asked them what we could do.
1277
01:20:21,517 --> 01:20:25,261
Uh, they said, "well, we can sue them."
1278
01:20:25,588 --> 01:20:29,268
When we filed a claim
against mister Skelps,
1279
01:20:29,358 --> 01:20:33,973
it forced him to hire
attorneys here in California,
1280
01:20:34,063 --> 01:20:39,578
and I used my existing California
attorneys, uh, to, uh, fight the battle,
1281
01:20:39,668 --> 01:20:45,351
the legal battle of proving that he
was indeed infringing on the patents.
1282
01:20:45,441 --> 01:20:51,105
If the patent is presumed
valid, and they don't adhere by it
1283
01:20:51,347 --> 01:20:54,027
they run the risk of being punished.
1284
01:20:54,117 --> 01:20:59,498
And then my attorney would have to
respond, uh, and this gets very legal.
1285
01:20:59,588 --> 01:21:01,588
And, you know, I had no qualms about it.
1286
01:21:01,678 --> 01:21:05,115
I, uh, I felt somewhat sorry for mister.
1287
01:21:05,205 --> 01:21:09,237
Skelps, uh, uh, What's his name?
1288
01:21:09,365 --> 01:21:12,245
-Mike Skelps.
-Mike Skelps, yeah, mister Skelps.
1289
01:21:12,335 --> 01:21:14,735
-Uh...
-Why do you feel sorry for him?
1290
01:21:14,825 --> 01:21:18,175
Because I think he spent an
awful lot of money uh, trying to fight,
1291
01:21:18,265 --> 01:21:22,330
when we could have sat down and resolved
these issues, uh, rather reasonably.
1292
01:21:22,420 --> 01:21:26,981
-How... how reasonably?
-What do you mean by "rather reasonably"?
1293
01:21:27,071 --> 01:21:32,906
Uh, I mean, I don't want to go
into the monetary, uh, situation,
1294
01:21:32,996 --> 01:21:39,390
but I have probably about a dozen
licensees or had a dozen licensees
1295
01:21:40,329 --> 01:21:47,913
that just came and we reached a reasonable
agreement, that did not impose, um...
1296
01:21:50,273 --> 01:21:53,073
hardship on them in any way.
1297
01:21:53,977 --> 01:21:59,158
And they simply paid me a
small royalty, a reasonable royalty.
1298
01:21:59,248 --> 01:22:03,562
Gosh, I just can't imagine
imagine the $300,000 settlement offer,
1299
01:22:03,652 --> 01:22:08,096
the requirement to make the
lawsuit stop, represents their not
1300
01:22:08,186 --> 01:22:12,630
wanting to be a burden on somebody
that's making $30,000 a year.
1301
01:22:14,163 --> 01:22:18,644
Quite frankly, I think the
lawyers that negotiated for me,
1302
01:22:18,734 --> 01:22:25,166
you know, they were shooting
high, willing to settle for a lot less.
1303
01:22:25,374 --> 01:22:28,026
Um, what Mr. Skelps...
1304
01:22:28,116 --> 01:22:33,070
Now they were putting hundreds
of thousands of dollars into this,
1305
01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:36,162
to file all the necessary paperwork.
1306
01:22:36,252 --> 01:22:39,198
So those lawyers wanted
to get something out again.
1307
01:22:39,288 --> 01:22:42,969
And that's usually the
consequence once a lawsuit is filed.
1308
01:22:43,059 --> 01:22:44,938
Is... is he a patent attorney?
1309
01:22:45,028 --> 01:22:48,041
Is... does he represent the
United States patent office?
1310
01:22:48,131 --> 01:22:54,755
Once the patent office issues a
patent, that patent is presumed valid.
1311
01:22:55,504 --> 01:22:58,768
Okay? Unless it is proven invalid.
1312
01:22:59,208 --> 01:23:04,290
The patent is presumed valid, just
like a person is presumed innocent,
1313
01:23:04,380 --> 01:23:10,263
a patent is presumed valid if it is
issued by the United States patent office.
1314
01:23:10,353 --> 01:23:13,099
Who is he to say that it is not valid?
1315
01:23:13,189 --> 01:23:15,598
When the patents were overturned,
1316
01:23:15,688 --> 01:23:20,073
did you return any of the money to
the people that, uh, had to pay you?
1317
01:23:20,163 --> 01:23:25,611
No, typically in a license agreement,
you explicitly say that any money
1318
01:23:25,701 --> 01:23:28,214
that has been paid is non-refundable.
1319
01:23:28,304 --> 01:23:32,651
The agreements that we wrote were...
Involved non-disclosure agreements
1320
01:23:32,741 --> 01:23:35,154
and they... they were also confidential.
1321
01:23:35,244 --> 01:23:37,490
I have a... quite a few patents.
1322
01:23:37,580 --> 01:23:42,328
I wanted to know, what makes
a good event photograph?
1323
01:23:42,418 --> 01:23:46,499
Is it important to photograph the
entire body, or just the chest up?
1324
01:23:46,589 --> 01:23:48,101
Or, get the face?
1325
01:23:48,191 --> 01:23:50,336
Most people like to see their face.
1326
01:23:50,426 --> 01:23:54,540
One of the answers that I got was
that a good event photograph includes,
1327
01:23:54,630 --> 01:23:57,230
for runners at least, to show the legs.
1328
01:23:57,320 --> 01:23:59,712
That's the most important part.
1329
01:23:59,802 --> 01:24:01,869
Because they run with the legs.
1330
01:24:02,632 --> 01:24:07,253
Whereas before, I was taking
pictures of the chest and up,
1331
01:24:07,343 --> 01:24:13,226
so, now, it became obvious to me that,
uh, getting their legs in the picture
1332
01:24:13,316 --> 01:24:15,028
would be of value.
1333
01:24:15,118 --> 01:24:19,332
We came up with the idea of putting
an advertisement into the photograph,
1334
01:24:19,422 --> 01:24:23,310
branding and advertising
into the photograph,
1335
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:26,572
and getting paid by the advertiser,
1336
01:24:26,662 --> 01:24:32,411
and giving the pictures away
for free to the, uh, participants.
1337
01:24:32,501 --> 01:24:34,061
Huh.
1338
01:24:34,237 --> 01:24:36,137
That's fascinating.
1339
01:24:36,339 --> 01:24:39,818
If you leave out garbage,
you're gonna get cockroaches.
1340
01:24:39,908 --> 01:24:44,723
If you leave out garbage patents,
you're gonna get patent trolls.
1341
01:24:44,813 --> 01:24:47,443
So, the question we
should all be asking is,
1342
01:24:47,533 --> 01:24:50,163
who keeps approving the garbage patents?
1343
01:24:50,253 --> 01:24:53,503
I'm Robert Williams, I'm an
attorney, formerly a patent examiner.
1344
01:24:53,593 --> 01:24:57,703
How much time does a
patent examiner give to a patent?
1345
01:24:57,793 --> 01:25:01,240
Okay, the, uh, quota that each
examiner has to meet under
1346
01:25:01,330 --> 01:25:04,443
the count system is a certain
number of counts per week.
1347
01:25:04,533 --> 01:25:09,315
Uh... uh, an examiner at a high level
will only have about four hours to...
1348
01:25:09,405 --> 01:25:13,419
Per each count that they have
to get within that quota system.
1349
01:25:13,509 --> 01:25:16,522
So, of course
when I hear that, what I hear is,
1350
01:25:16,612 --> 01:25:20,710
an examiner has four hours
to decide if a patent is valid.
1351
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:21,800
Mm-hmm.
1352
01:25:21,890 --> 01:25:24,839
I've currently
been in litigation over someone
1353
01:25:24,929 --> 01:25:28,267
that's suing me for patent
infringement now for three years.
1354
01:25:28,357 --> 01:25:32,581
And this three-year
absurdity of a lawsuit
1355
01:25:33,862 --> 01:25:37,034
was started by somebody
that had only had four hours.
1356
01:25:37,124 --> 01:25:38,124
Mm-hmm.
1357
01:25:38,301 --> 01:25:42,248
To pop the patent out of...
out of his office with an approval.
1358
01:25:42,338 --> 01:25:43,549
Doesn't that seem crazy?
1359
01:25:43,639 --> 01:25:47,354
That someone is only allocated
four hours to approve a patent
1360
01:25:47,444 --> 01:25:51,391
that could then result in years
and years and years of litigation?
1361
01:25:51,481 --> 01:25:55,214
I do think that time is one of the
challenges that the USPTO is facing
1362
01:25:55,304 --> 01:25:59,291
in terms of allowing the examiners
adequate time to do an in-depth search,
1363
01:25:59,381 --> 01:26:02,595
and to prepare a detailed
office action that prevents
1364
01:26:02,685 --> 01:26:07,053
that presents the most salient issues
into the record and, um, you know, first,
1365
01:26:07,143 --> 01:26:10,266
to just identify that best
evidence, but also to consider
1366
01:26:10,356 --> 01:26:13,253
and apply the best available
evidence to make that,
1367
01:26:13,343 --> 01:26:16,717
um, prosecution as...
as short and effective as possible.
1368
01:26:16,807 --> 01:26:19,237
The examiner is primarily
gonna look at previous
1369
01:26:19,327 --> 01:26:22,007
patents applications, or
previously-issued patents.
1370
01:26:22,097 --> 01:26:25,156
Primary body of knowledge that
the patent examiners draw from
1371
01:26:25,246 --> 01:26:27,547
is actually what's already been patented.
1372
01:26:27,637 --> 01:26:31,557
The applicant is essentially given
the benefit of the doubt that they are
1373
01:26:31,647 --> 01:26:35,567
in fact the inventor and that their
invention is new and not obviousness.
1374
01:26:35,657 --> 01:26:37,977
The way the statutes
are written, section 102,
1375
01:26:38,067 --> 01:26:40,754
103, is that it defaults
to a patent being allowed.
1376
01:26:40,844 --> 01:26:43,808
It says that an inventor
shall be entitled to a patent.
1377
01:26:43,898 --> 01:26:46,548
Again, the default position
is that it is patentable.
1378
01:26:46,638 --> 01:26:51,417
Of the IPR's that go through the
full process and reach a final decision
1379
01:26:51,507 --> 01:26:56,151
on the merits, roughly 75% or
more, uh, were completely invalidated.
1380
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:01,323
So why were they
approved in the first place?
1381
01:27:01,413 --> 01:27:04,062
The only answer I can give as to why
1382
01:27:04,152 --> 01:27:06,865
those patents were
approved in the first place
1383
01:27:06,955 --> 01:27:09,668
is because the examiner
decided, based on the evidence
1384
01:27:09,758 --> 01:27:12,008
that was available to
him or her at the time,
1385
01:27:12,098 --> 01:27:14,940
that that application merited
being allowed as a patent.
1386
01:27:15,030 --> 01:27:18,274
You're gonna have
to forgive me for asking here,
1387
01:27:18,364 --> 01:27:20,610
uh, "method of swinging on a swing."
1388
01:27:20,700 --> 01:27:21,700
Mm-hmm.
1389
01:27:21,805 --> 01:27:24,091
This was approved November...
1390
01:27:24,181 --> 01:27:26,835
-Priority date, November 17, 2000.
-Mm-hmm.
1391
01:27:26,925 --> 01:27:29,255
Have you seen this one before?
1392
01:27:29,345 --> 01:27:32,258
You know, I think this probably is an...
an example
1393
01:27:32,348 --> 01:27:34,898
of a limitation of the
evidence that was available.
1394
01:27:34,988 --> 01:27:37,738
People may have used that
method of swinging on a swing
1395
01:27:37,828 --> 01:27:42,468
prior to the putative invention date but
there's no documentary evidence of it
1396
01:27:42,558 --> 01:27:47,131
and so if you have to act based
on evidence and there's no evidence
1397
01:27:47,221 --> 01:27:51,444
available to contradict it
then legally we're kind of stuck.
1398
01:27:51,534 --> 01:27:53,575
So, there was no evidence that
1399
01:27:53,665 --> 01:27:55,974
anyone had swung on
a swing sideways before,
1400
01:27:56,064 --> 01:28:00,018
and since there was no evidence of
that, the patent had to be approved.
1401
01:28:00,108 --> 01:28:04,234
Um, that's the only conclusion
that I can draw but I don't know
1402
01:28:04,324 --> 01:28:08,449
specifically what went on during
the prosecution of this patent.
1403
01:28:14,990 --> 01:28:17,767
Uh, in 1999, no one had ever thought
1404
01:28:17,857 --> 01:28:20,506
of a stick that a dog could fetch before.
1405
01:28:20,596 --> 01:28:22,308
How could that be approved?
1406
01:28:22,398 --> 01:28:25,979
Uh, again, I... that...
I guess that does seem obvious
1407
01:28:26,069 --> 01:28:28,919
certainly applying our common
sense test for obviousness,
1408
01:28:29,009 --> 01:28:32,951
um, I've... can only... I don't know what
evidence the examiner had access to
1409
01:28:33,041 --> 01:28:36,141
and what was in that record
when that application was examined
1410
01:28:36,231 --> 01:28:38,589
but apparently the
examiner concluded based
1411
01:28:38,679 --> 01:28:41,294
on that record that it
was in fact patentable.
1412
01:28:41,384 --> 01:28:44,456
Sorry, Daisy, you can't have it.
1413
01:28:46,389 --> 01:28:50,936
So, apparently you can own
an idea, no matter how obvious,
1414
01:28:51,026 --> 01:28:53,839
if you can just convince the
United States Patent Office
1415
01:28:53,929 --> 01:28:56,375
that it's never been patented before.
1416
01:28:56,465 --> 01:28:59,143
So, let's summarize
how patent trolling works.
1417
01:28:59,233 --> 01:29:03,553
In the movie, "The Big Short", Margot
Robbie, in a bubble bath,
1418
01:29:03,643 --> 01:29:08,621
apparently naked, explained how the home
mortgage fraud was committed by the banks.
1419
01:29:08,711 --> 01:29:11,657
Now I'd love to hire
her to explain how patent
1420
01:29:11,747 --> 01:29:14,693
trolling works as well,
but I can't afford her.
1421
01:29:14,783 --> 01:29:18,997
But, I did manage to get us
a plumber from New Jersey.
1422
01:29:19,087 --> 01:29:21,834
Let me tell you how to
become a patent troll.
1423
01:29:21,924 --> 01:29:24,737
First, take out a stupid patent.
1424
01:29:24,827 --> 01:29:27,506
It don't matter how
stupid it is, believe me.
1425
01:29:27,596 --> 01:29:30,809
Two, form a dummy
corporation in east Texas.
1426
01:29:30,899 --> 01:29:35,436
That's the best place to sue people from,
'cause the judges are... How do you say?
1427
01:29:35,526 --> 01:29:38,076
Sympathetic to your cause,
if you know what I mean.
1428
01:29:38,166 --> 01:29:42,759
Three, rent an abandoned office building
as an address for your fake business.
1429
01:29:42,849 --> 01:29:45,691
Let me know, I might be
able to help you with that.
1430
01:29:45,781 --> 01:29:50,062
Four, find victims that are
too small to defend themselves,
1431
01:29:50,152 --> 01:29:52,931
but not too small that
they don't have no money.
1432
01:29:53,021 --> 01:29:55,321
Five, now you sue them.
1433
01:29:58,561 --> 01:30:01,740
Six, use some dummy name on the lawsuit.
1434
01:30:01,830 --> 01:30:04,042
You don't want no one to know who you are.
1435
01:30:04,132 --> 01:30:06,912
Only lawyers need to use their real name.
1436
01:30:07,002 --> 01:30:12,858
Seven, offer an average
settlement of let's say, uh, $340,000.
1437
01:30:13,208 --> 01:30:15,654
Make sure to call it a licensing fee.
1438
01:30:15,744 --> 01:30:20,726
Eight, force your victim to sign
a non-disclosure agreement,
1439
01:30:20,816 --> 01:30:24,560
so they can't say what you did to them.
1440
01:30:24,820 --> 01:30:27,132
Nine, just sit back and
watch your buddies,
1441
01:30:27,222 --> 01:30:30,969
the east Texas judges,
refuse to toss out the case,
1442
01:30:31,059 --> 01:30:33,759
'cause their sons get to
take the cases on both sides.
1443
01:30:33,849 --> 01:30:34,873
It's perfect.
1444
01:30:34,963 --> 01:30:42,451
Ten, use the money you just made to repeat
the steps one through nine, forever.
1445
01:30:42,605 --> 01:30:43,685
I'm done.
1446
01:30:43,775 --> 01:30:46,399
You've seen how this
affects me and many other
1447
01:30:46,489 --> 01:30:48,934
small business owners all over the world.
1448
01:30:49,024 --> 01:30:52,090
But how does patent
trolling leak into your life?
1449
01:30:52,180 --> 01:30:58,096
Well, here's a recent
patent, it's for a communication device,
1450
01:30:58,186 --> 01:31:01,700
capable of being used
for voice communication.
1451
01:31:01,790 --> 01:31:03,135
Yup.
1452
01:31:03,225 --> 01:31:05,771
It's a patent for the telephone.
1453
01:31:05,861 --> 01:31:13,253
And it was a approved by the United
States Patent Office on August 17 of 2010.
1454
01:31:14,202 --> 01:31:17,527
Yup, the United States
Patent Office approved a
1455
01:31:17,617 --> 01:31:20,941
patent for the telephone
on August 17 of 2010.
1456
01:31:23,679 --> 01:31:28,761
And here's a little glance
at the details of this patent.
1457
01:31:28,851 --> 01:31:30,228
Dial.
1458
01:31:30,318 --> 01:31:31,518
Connected.
1459
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:32,920
Send.
1460
01:31:33,321 --> 01:31:34,321
Over?
1461
01:31:34,923 --> 01:31:36,243
Disconnect.
1462
01:31:36,559 --> 01:31:37,559
End.
1463
01:31:37,726 --> 01:31:40,326
Yes, that's in the patent:
1464
01:31:40,696 --> 01:31:42,596
How to use a phone.
1465
01:31:43,932 --> 01:31:50,749
The patent trolls have now patented how
to use a telephone so they're suing Apple.
1466
01:31:50,839 --> 01:31:52,739
Here's the lawsuit:
1467
01:31:53,075 --> 01:31:56,955
Apple's accused iphones are capable
of being used for voice communication.
1468
01:31:57,045 --> 01:32:00,258
Apple's accused iphones have two cameras.
1469
01:32:00,348 --> 01:32:05,130
Apple's accused iphones have a camera and
a display on the same side of the phone.
1470
01:32:05,220 --> 01:32:07,470
Apple's accused iphones
have a camera located
1471
01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:11,504
on the side of the iphone
that is opposite the display.
1472
01:32:11,594 --> 01:32:16,509
Apple's accused iphone is capable
of displaying its location on its display.
1473
01:32:16,599 --> 01:32:22,167
Apple's accused iphones are
wireless communication devices.
1474
01:32:23,205 --> 01:32:26,565
The "664" patent is presumed valid.
1475
01:32:27,342 --> 01:32:30,703
So now, of course, Apple's
having to pay huge legal
1476
01:32:30,793 --> 01:32:34,632
costs in defending themselves
in court, fees, obviously,
1477
01:32:34,722 --> 01:32:39,064
that are passed on to you and
me every time we buy an iphone.
1478
01:32:39,154 --> 01:32:41,634
No wonder these Apple
devices are so expensive.
1479
01:32:41,724 --> 01:32:43,669
We're paying off the patent trolls.
1480
01:32:43,759 --> 01:32:46,138
But I have a Samsung Galaxy.
1481
01:32:46,228 --> 01:32:49,684
Oh, John, they're suing Samsung too.
1482
01:32:50,332 --> 01:32:51,332
Oh.
1483
01:32:53,669 --> 01:32:54,669
Hmm.
1484
01:32:55,370 --> 01:32:57,182
Of course they're suing Samsung.
1485
01:32:57,272 --> 01:32:59,585
Of course they're suing all of us.
1486
01:32:59,675 --> 01:33:01,875
They're patent trolls.
1487
01:33:02,110 --> 01:33:06,238
Now, who would file
such an asinine lawsuit?
1488
01:33:06,682 --> 01:33:08,782
Well, in this case, it's a company called.
1489
01:33:08,872 --> 01:33:11,296
Corydoras Technologies, LLC.
1490
01:33:11,386 --> 01:33:15,868
You all ready know they're a shell company
designed to hide whoever's behind it.
1491
01:33:15,958 --> 01:33:20,773
But every lawsuit lists
the lawyers that are filing it
1492
01:33:20,863 --> 01:33:24,743
so the victims can call the
lawyers to offer their settlement.
1493
01:33:24,833 --> 01:33:28,313
We can find out who the
lawyers are every time.
1494
01:33:28,403 --> 01:33:34,186
So, what lawyers would ever press such
a case against, effectively, all of us?
1495
01:33:34,276 --> 01:33:37,176
The answer is, these lawyers.
1496
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:39,980
These ones, right here.
1497
01:33:40,282 --> 01:33:42,795
And notice, they're all from Texas.
1498
01:33:42,885 --> 01:33:44,863
Hmm. What a coincidence.
1499
01:33:44,953 --> 01:33:51,673
So, these people are effectively
suing all of us for using cell phones.
1500
01:33:51,860 --> 01:33:54,907
I had to give them a call and ask why.
1501
01:33:56,300 --> 01:33:59,845
-This is Betty.
-Yeah, Elizabeth Derieux please.
1502
01:33:59,935 --> 01:34:01,246
It's me.
1503
01:34:01,336 --> 01:34:05,336
Hey, um, this is Austin Meyers
speaking, I am looking at a lawsuit, um,
1504
01:34:05,426 --> 01:34:09,154
of, uh, Corydoras
Technologies versus Apple...
1505
01:34:09,244 --> 01:34:12,294
-Uh-huh.
-...Where apparently Corydoras
1506
01:34:12,384 --> 01:34:15,034
uh, claims to own the idea
of a communications device
1507
01:34:15,124 --> 01:34:17,696
capable of being used
for voice communication.
1508
01:34:17,786 --> 01:34:19,286
Am I understanding that right?
1509
01:34:19,376 --> 01:34:22,326
Does Corydoras own the
patent for a communications
1510
01:34:22,416 --> 01:34:24,632
device used for voice communication?
1511
01:34:24,722 --> 01:34:27,906
-I represent Corydoras...
-Uh-huh.
1512
01:34:27,996 --> 01:34:30,496
-...In that matter.
-Uh-huh.
1513
01:34:30,586 --> 01:34:33,074
And I... I'm not sure
1514
01:34:33,164 --> 01:34:36,849
like, are you connected
with Corydoras in some way?
1515
01:34:36,939 --> 01:34:41,241
I just have not met you and...
No, I'm not connected with Corydoras, no.
1516
01:34:41,331 --> 01:34:42,420
Okay?
1517
01:34:42,510 --> 01:34:47,125
So, does Corydoras
own the idea of using a, uh...
1518
01:34:47,215 --> 01:34:51,196
A device capable of being
used for voice communication?
1519
01:34:51,286 --> 01:34:55,136
Corydoras owns the patent
that's asserted in the litigation, yes.
1520
01:34:55,226 --> 01:34:58,403
And does that patent claim to own a...
1521
01:34:58,493 --> 01:35:02,074
A device capable of being
used for voice communication
1522
01:35:02,164 --> 01:35:06,004
as stated in your lawsuit, paragraph 16?
1523
01:35:07,248 --> 01:35:10,048
I'm just not
sure what you're asking me, I.
1524
01:35:10,138 --> 01:35:12,188
I'm asking... What I'm asking...
1525
01:35:12,278 --> 01:35:16,228
Yeah sure, I'd be happy to be
more clear about my question, certainly.
1526
01:35:16,318 --> 01:35:21,775
I'm asking if Corydoras owns the idea of a
device being used for voice communication.
1527
01:35:21,865 --> 01:35:24,665
Because that's...
that's what you state in your lawsuit,
1528
01:35:24,755 --> 01:35:26,702
with your signature at the bottom.
1529
01:35:26,792 --> 01:35:29,375
And so I'm wondering if
you actually believe that.
1530
01:35:29,465 --> 01:35:32,049
I'm happy to call you back at a...
1531
01:35:32,139 --> 01:35:35,204
At a time when I have a
little more time to discuss this.
1532
01:35:35,294 --> 01:35:38,251
So right now, you're
not able to tell me whether
1533
01:35:38,341 --> 01:35:41,695
-whether this... This company owns...
-You know what?
1534
01:35:41,785 --> 01:35:46,151
I mean, I don't even know who you are, and
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking.
1535
01:35:46,241 --> 01:35:49,091
If you're asking...
if you're just reading the complaint,
1536
01:35:49,181 --> 01:35:51,337
I don't have the file in front of me...
1537
01:35:51,427 --> 01:35:54,090
I... I am reading the complaint, yes...
1538
01:35:54,180 --> 01:35:57,380
If you're just reading
the complaint, Yeah.
1539
01:35:57,470 --> 01:36:02,131
The answer is that the matters
asserted in the complaint are accurate
1540
01:36:02,221 --> 01:36:04,834
to the best of my knowledge at this time.
1541
01:36:04,924 --> 01:36:07,724
The language in the complaint is accurate.
1542
01:36:09,131 --> 01:36:11,181
Polasek, Quisenberry & Errington.
1543
01:36:11,271 --> 01:36:13,021
Yes, John Polasek, please.
1544
01:36:14,236 --> 01:36:15,686
May I have your name?
1545
01:36:15,776 --> 01:36:17,315
Sure, Austin Meyer.
1546
01:36:17,405 --> 01:36:21,053
-Please hold.
-Mm-hmm.
1547
01:36:25,513 --> 01:36:28,763
Hi, Mr. Meyer, may I
ask what this call is in regards to?
1548
01:36:28,853 --> 01:36:32,097
Uh, yes, this is with regards to, uh,
1549
01:36:32,187 --> 01:36:38,043
patent infringement suit between
Corydoras and Apple computer.
1550
01:36:40,128 --> 01:36:42,925
Okay, well, Mr. Polasek is not in.
1551
01:36:43,015 --> 01:36:45,811
Would you like to
leave a message for him?
1552
01:36:47,100 --> 01:36:48,100
Hello?
1553
01:36:48,190 --> 01:36:51,416
Yeah, Ottis Carroll please.
1554
01:36:51,506 --> 01:36:53,118
Uh, this is he.
1555
01:36:53,208 --> 01:36:55,358
Hi, this is Austin Meyer speaking.
1556
01:36:55,448 --> 01:36:59,057
I'm looking at a, uh, lawsuit,
filed against, uh, Apple computer,
1557
01:36:59,147 --> 01:37:01,093
a patent infringement lawsuit,
1558
01:37:01,183 --> 01:37:05,698
um, on behalf of a company
called Corydoras Technologies, LLC.
1559
01:37:05,788 --> 01:37:09,168
And I notice in this lawsuit
that you claim, that, uh,
1560
01:37:09,258 --> 01:37:12,618
Corydoras, LLC, owns the
idea of a communication device
1561
01:37:12,708 --> 01:37:15,805
that is capable of being
used for voice communication,
1562
01:37:15,895 --> 01:37:19,046
or at least it would seem
by my reading of the lawsuit.
1563
01:37:19,136 --> 01:37:21,686
Am I misunderstanding
something about that lawsuit?
1564
01:37:21,776 --> 01:37:25,826
Uh, you know what? You might not
be, but you're talking to the wrong guy.
1565
01:37:25,916 --> 01:37:28,751
You need to call a patent
lawyer who's involved in it.
1566
01:37:28,841 --> 01:37:31,032
I need to call who? I'm sorry.
1567
01:37:31,122 --> 01:37:32,750
Uh, you need to call...
1568
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:36,540
There's another lawyer listed, one
of the patent lawyers, give him a call.
1569
01:37:36,630 --> 01:37:39,633
-Uh, John Polasek?
-Yeah, give him a call.
1570
01:37:39,723 --> 01:37:42,623
I'm just curious,
why is your name on the lawsuit
1571
01:37:42,713 --> 01:37:45,871
if you're not the right person
to talk to about said lawsuit?
1572
01:37:45,961 --> 01:37:47,361
Well, you know what?
1573
01:37:47,451 --> 01:37:50,523
I don't have any reason
to talk to you right now.
1574
01:37:54,602 --> 01:37:58,884
Okay, I think everyone in the room
understands patent trolling now.
1575
01:37:58,974 --> 01:38:02,020
But does the federal
government understand it?
1576
01:38:02,110 --> 01:38:08,026
When, uh, someone asserts a claim that's
not valid, that's called patent trolling.
1577
01:38:08,116 --> 01:38:13,031
And when they do that, they
are threatening a business,
1578
01:38:13,121 --> 01:38:19,972
usually a business, sometimes it's
an individual, with, uh, enormous costs.
1579
01:38:20,062 --> 01:38:26,211
Uh, litigation costs, uh, costs of
having to pay damages in the claim.
1580
01:38:26,301 --> 01:38:28,782
Then what they're
effectively doing is keeping
1581
01:38:28,872 --> 01:38:31,353
good products from
getting to the marketplace,
1582
01:38:31,443 --> 01:38:34,467
extorting money from
legitimate businesses,
1583
01:38:34,557 --> 01:38:37,289
and stifling new start-up businesses.
1584
01:38:37,379 --> 01:38:39,124
Okay, so they know about it.
1585
01:38:39,214 --> 01:38:40,214
Good.
1586
01:38:41,049 --> 01:38:44,096
Well it takes a lot of things
for a bill to become a law,
1587
01:38:44,186 --> 01:38:46,836
and so, even though this
got the overwhelming support
1588
01:38:46,926 --> 01:38:49,902
of the house, and was voted
very strongly out of there,
1589
01:38:49,992 --> 01:38:53,038
uh, there...
it never made it out of committee
1590
01:38:53,128 --> 01:38:58,343
in the senate side because, um, Harry
Reid reportedly said, "Over my dead body"
1591
01:38:58,433 --> 01:39:01,046
that this would actually
um, you know, discussed,
1592
01:39:01,136 --> 01:39:05,183
and that was because of his
support from the trial lawyers.
1593
01:39:05,273 --> 01:39:06,713
Um...
1594
01:39:11,279 --> 01:39:15,311
Uh, okay. Um...
That would've been really good footage.
1595
01:39:15,401 --> 01:39:17,333
It makes me wanna strangle Harry Reid.
1596
01:39:17,423 --> 01:39:20,499
Yeah, I mean, you might wanna...
You can say... reportedly.
1597
01:39:20,589 --> 01:39:23,168
-I don't know if that...
-You said "reportedly."
1598
01:39:23,258 --> 01:39:25,508
-I did? Okay. All right. Good.
-Um.
1599
01:39:25,598 --> 01:39:27,158
Oh, so close!
1600
01:39:29,164 --> 01:39:34,012
They know about patent
trolling, but they just don't care.
1601
01:39:34,102 --> 01:39:40,352
They're siding with the trial lawyers,
and hanging the rest of us out to dry.
1602
01:39:40,442 --> 01:39:43,015
Of course, most lawmakers are lawyers,
1603
01:39:43,105 --> 01:39:46,524
so maybe that shouldn't
have surprised me at all.
1604
01:39:46,614 --> 01:39:49,879
So many software developers
out there who have been shut down,
1605
01:39:49,969 --> 01:39:52,236
their apps have been
pulled out the stores,
1606
01:39:52,326 --> 01:39:56,102
their websites have been shut down,
or, they simply settle, and they pay,
1607
01:39:56,192 --> 01:39:59,539
and it's just lining the pockets
of these patent holders who
1608
01:39:59,629 --> 01:40:02,976
aren't really doing anything
with that intellectual property.
1609
01:40:03,066 --> 01:40:05,366
So, I think it's just like a...
Like a... a...
1610
01:40:05,456 --> 01:40:07,728
It's an extra tax on
our skill, on our craft.
1611
01:40:07,818 --> 01:40:11,599
And is the tax decided by the...
the government and the voters?
1612
01:40:11,689 --> 01:40:12,689
No.
1613
01:40:12,791 --> 01:40:14,241
Who decides the tax?
1614
01:40:14,331 --> 01:40:15,331
The lawyers.
1615
01:40:15,431 --> 01:40:17,455
Everyone should be concerned about this.
1616
01:40:17,545 --> 01:40:19,124
This is a $80 billion tax.
1617
01:40:19,214 --> 01:40:20,214
Right?
1618
01:40:20,338 --> 01:40:23,058
Because they sue
everybody and at the end of
1619
01:40:23,148 --> 01:40:26,021
the day all these costs
show up in two forms:
1620
01:40:26,111 --> 01:40:29,572
One, good companies go out of
business because they can't afford it,
1621
01:40:29,662 --> 01:40:32,023
so the consumer misses
some great product or
1622
01:40:32,113 --> 01:40:34,618
service, or it gets
passed on in increased...
1623
01:40:34,708 --> 01:40:36,929
Increased cost of
goods, you know, so, it's
1624
01:40:37,019 --> 01:40:39,319
gonna cost the consumer
at the end of the day.
1625
01:40:39,409 --> 01:40:40,412
Who's getting rich?
1626
01:40:40,502 --> 01:40:42,047
Once again, it's the lawyers.
1627
01:40:42,137 --> 01:40:43,287
Yeah.
1628
01:40:43,377 --> 01:40:50,388
Imagine if you wrote a book, and we
had patents on books, and you had one guy
1629
01:40:50,478 --> 01:40:55,093
who got the patent to write books
about whales, and he was the only guy,
1630
01:40:55,183 --> 01:40:57,633
and then you wanted to
write a book about whales.
1631
01:40:57,723 --> 01:41:02,034
You'd have to go to Fred, who has the
patent on whales, and get his permission,
1632
01:41:02,124 --> 01:41:07,139
maybe a license agreement, so that
you too could write about that topic.
1633
01:41:07,229 --> 01:41:09,507
Doesn't that sound ridiculous?
1634
01:41:09,597 --> 01:41:12,644
Well, that's exactly what's
going on in software, today.
1635
01:41:12,734 --> 01:41:14,579
That's how ridiculous it is.
1636
01:41:14,669 --> 01:41:17,182
And that's why it needs to be fixed.
1637
01:41:17,272 --> 01:41:23,821
Why don't we make software copywriteable,
instead of patentable? And if we did that,
1638
01:41:23,911 --> 01:41:26,011
I think that would be a huge step forward.
1639
01:41:26,101 --> 01:41:30,795
I'm sorry, but any time I see a method
of accomplishing blah, blah, blah, blah,
1640
01:41:30,885 --> 01:41:32,435
that scares the hell out of me.
1641
01:41:32,525 --> 01:41:37,435
It really, really does, because
that's not patenting a physical device.
1642
01:41:37,525 --> 01:41:40,238
You know, like this
microphone that's in front of me.
1643
01:41:40,328 --> 01:41:43,676
That is a physical design
that does a specific thing.
1644
01:41:43,766 --> 01:41:45,578
That I believe is patentable.
1645
01:41:45,668 --> 01:41:49,349
But the method of accomplishing
a task is ridiculous to me.
1646
01:41:49,439 --> 01:41:53,287
But there's so many of those
method patents that are out there now
1647
01:41:53,377 --> 01:41:56,577
that you can't even run a simple
website without getting popped.
1648
01:41:56,667 --> 01:41:58,376
It hurts innovation in a very,
1649
01:41:58,466 --> 01:42:01,696
very tangible and real sense
because when a startup...
1650
01:42:01,786 --> 01:42:06,071
And there are numerous stories of
startups, basically in the app space
1651
01:42:06,161 --> 01:42:09,297
or people who simply just
produce podcasts, right?
1652
01:42:09,387 --> 01:42:12,857
Getting the threat letters, saying,
"We will sue you because of",
1653
01:42:12,947 --> 01:42:15,702
for example, not because
you produced a podcast,
1654
01:42:15,792 --> 01:42:18,746
but because of the way you're
loading it onto Apple itunes
1655
01:42:18,836 --> 01:42:21,386
or something like that,
something stupid like that.
1656
01:42:21,476 --> 01:42:23,976
Can you imagine the world
we've been in right now,
1657
01:42:24,066 --> 01:42:26,686
if steve jobs, right out
of college was just...
1658
01:42:26,776 --> 01:42:29,656
Was slided with IPK's
That he couldn't get out of?
1659
01:42:29,746 --> 01:42:31,725
If Newegg software coders had gotten
1660
01:42:31,815 --> 01:42:35,328
this legal letter in 2001, saying,
"if you program a shopping cart".
1661
01:42:35,418 --> 01:42:39,366
"You... you have to give us 1%
of your revenue, forever," right?
1662
01:42:39,456 --> 01:42:42,436
Newegg wouldn't exist today, right?
What a complete joke.
1663
01:42:42,526 --> 01:42:45,404
If we had gotten our lawsuit
the same day we launched,
1664
01:42:45,494 --> 01:42:48,706
we would have to shut down immediately.
That would have been it.
1665
01:42:48,796 --> 01:42:50,974
I would have been really angry about it,
1666
01:42:51,064 --> 01:42:54,014
but I would have had no
resources to fight it at that point
1667
01:42:54,104 --> 01:42:57,857
or no idea whether or not I infringed
and so I would have just walked away.
1668
01:42:57,947 --> 01:43:01,052
So the cost of this abuse
is literally incalculable.
1669
01:43:01,142 --> 01:43:05,822
There are certain areas that
are notoriously patent troll bait,
1670
01:43:05,912 --> 01:43:07,925
and I've had people say,
1671
01:43:08,015 --> 01:43:12,764
"I'm not gonna create a business there
because there are too many patent trolls."
1672
01:43:12,854 --> 01:43:14,632
That's a loss for us in society.
1673
01:43:14,722 --> 01:43:16,301
That's a loss for the country.
1674
01:43:16,391 --> 01:43:19,715
It's hampering innovation because
1675
01:43:19,805 --> 01:43:23,129
people are afraid to
write software because,
1676
01:43:23,219 --> 01:43:27,545
boy, somebody else must
have some similar idea to that,
1677
01:43:27,635 --> 01:43:33,351
and sure enough, you can almost guarantee
that there's some patent somewhere
1678
01:43:33,441 --> 01:43:37,555
that... somehow, any piece of
software is gonna infringe on.
1679
01:43:37,645 --> 01:43:39,645
Yeah, it's absolutely impossible to tell
1680
01:43:39,735 --> 01:43:44,362
if you're about to be sued
for patent infringement.
1681
01:43:44,452 --> 01:43:50,788
Why not start all over
and just write a new app right now?
1682
01:43:51,526 --> 01:43:52,846
Wow.
1683
01:43:53,528 --> 01:43:56,841
I would love to write a new app.
I really would.
1684
01:43:56,931 --> 01:44:01,379
But, there's also the fear of being
sued again by something else.
1685
01:44:01,469 --> 01:44:04,895
I feel that the risk is too
great for a small guy like me,
1686
01:44:04,985 --> 01:44:06,584
with no venture backing,
1687
01:44:06,674 --> 01:44:10,355
with no money in the bank to
just try to start all over again.
1688
01:44:10,445 --> 01:44:12,895
This is not what the
american dream is all about.
1689
01:44:12,985 --> 01:44:14,935
This is not why people start companies.
1690
01:44:15,025 --> 01:44:19,497
This is not the kind of attitude that
makes people want to go build new things.
1691
01:44:19,587 --> 01:44:24,269
That's the challenge that...
That entrepreneurs face,
1692
01:44:24,359 --> 01:44:31,655
and I thought that the american dream
was something much different than that.
1693
01:44:32,667 --> 01:44:37,815
It just baffles me that this
industry exists, it's allowed to exist
1694
01:44:37,905 --> 01:44:43,855
and that we have agencies, government
agencies that... That get fat off it.
1695
01:44:43,945 --> 01:44:46,921
Someone needs to bring it down.
1696
01:44:48,816 --> 01:44:51,263
And now, here's how you fix it:
1697
01:44:51,353 --> 01:44:54,832
This is so easy to fix, it's ridiculous.
1698
01:44:54,922 --> 01:44:57,369
First of all, no more method patents.
1699
01:44:57,459 --> 01:44:59,571
Method patents are stupid.
1700
01:44:59,661 --> 01:45:03,011
It's just somebody writing down
the steps he takes to do something.
1701
01:45:03,101 --> 01:45:05,810
No more software patents.
1702
01:45:05,900 --> 01:45:08,413
We have copyright for software.
1703
01:45:08,503 --> 01:45:11,383
You don't need to patent
the whole damn idea.
1704
01:45:11,473 --> 01:45:13,785
No more 20-year duration.
1705
01:45:13,875 --> 01:45:19,291
Patents last 20 years because it
took 20 years to recoup your investment
1706
01:45:19,381 --> 01:45:21,081
in the steam age!
1707
01:45:21,783 --> 01:45:26,286
Does it take 20 years for a product
to go through its lifecycle today?
1708
01:45:26,376 --> 01:45:27,532
It's ridiculous.
1709
01:45:27,622 --> 01:45:30,835
Patents should obviously last
about five years at the most.
1710
01:45:30,925 --> 01:45:36,941
You should file your lawsuits in the
defendant's district, not east texas.
1711
01:45:37,031 --> 01:45:38,281
You wanna go sue someone?
1712
01:45:38,371 --> 01:45:40,071
Fine, go sue 'em.
1713
01:45:40,402 --> 01:45:44,982
Don't drag 'em to your
abandoned office building in texas.
1714
01:45:45,072 --> 01:45:50,522
Trolls should reveal who they are,
not hide behind dummy corporations.
1715
01:45:50,612 --> 01:45:53,445
How do you justify suing
somebody when you're
1716
01:45:53,535 --> 01:45:56,394
afraid to even let anybody
know who you are?
1717
01:45:56,484 --> 01:45:59,964
Don't sue someone
just for using technology,
1718
01:46:00,054 --> 01:46:03,968
sue the person that
claims to have invented it.
1719
01:46:04,058 --> 01:46:07,439
You can't just sue everyone
that uses the Google store.
1720
01:46:07,529 --> 01:46:14,412
Don't sue someone if you make more
money suing people than making things.
1721
01:46:14,502 --> 01:46:17,152
Of course that just sets
the stage for patent trolls.
1722
01:46:17,242 --> 01:46:19,471
Do all these things now and we'll solve
1723
01:46:19,561 --> 01:46:22,023
the patent trolling
problem for the future.
1724
01:46:22,113 --> 01:46:23,553
It's a snap.
1725
01:46:23,878 --> 01:46:26,758
And none of these things
will cost any money to do.
1726
01:46:26,848 --> 01:46:30,162
In fact, it'll save taxpayer
dollars because we won't have all
1727
01:46:30,252 --> 01:46:33,565
these expensive lawsuits
gumming up the federal court system.
1728
01:46:33,655 --> 01:46:35,905
We don't have to throw
money at this problem.
1729
01:46:35,995 --> 01:46:41,473
We just have to close the loopholes
that the government left open.
1730
01:46:41,563 --> 01:46:42,763
That's it.
148081
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