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Convicted murderer alec

Murdaugh is seeking a brand new trial.

His team says rebecca hill, the clerk of court, influenced

The jury.

South carolina supreme court agreeing to hear

Alec two murders appeal for a new trial.

My name is mandy pierce.

Jersey, was your verdict influenced

In any way by the communications

Of the clerk of court

In this case

Yes, ma'am.

She made it seem like she was already guilty.

What becky did wasn't right.

She came into the jury room and was talking, interacting

With all of us at any time.

Did you interact

With any juror in an attempt to influence their view

Of the facts and the safety or not, guys? No.

I was juror 785,

Publicly known as the egg chair.

You've had some discussions with some folks not on the jury,

Which was going to require me to remove you from the jury.

Have you brought everything that you have

Outside of coolers and stuff in there?

What do you have in there? Just made

A dozen eggs.

A dozen eggs.

I feel like

I was targeted.

Michelle asked me on several occasions

What my opinion was and my cast

And answer was undecided.

Do you think the judge made a mistake removing you?

In all honesty, I do.

Do you think murdoch is a murderer?

In March of 2023,

The trial of alex murdaugh ended in a guilty verdict.

The once powerful attorney was handed down

Two consecutive life sentences without the possibility

Of parole

For the killing of his wife and his son months

After it appeared that south carolina's trial of the century

Ended, a new chapter began.

The clerk of court, becky hill,

Was accused of jury tampering.

She resigned and remains under multiple investigations.

The allegations could mean a brand new trial for alec

Murdoch with the state supreme court set to hear his appeal.

Two of the people at the center of the allegations

Have never spoken about it publicly until now.

One is the woman who became known as the egg lady.

She was removed from the jury in the 11th hour.

Facebook posts alleged to have been made by her ex-husband

And an email that surfaced accusing her of talking about

The case outside the courtroom.

Were the issues at hand.

She claims that becky hill targeted her

For removal from the jury.

She has a new book titled because enough is enough.

The other,

Who became known as juror z says that becky hill in part

Swayed her to a guilty verdict.

They joined me in new york, along with their attorney,

For an exclusive interview to hear their side of the story.

Thank you all for being here this morning.

We really appreciate you traveling from south carolina

To join us today.

So let's just if you would, each introduce yourselves

To get started. That would be great.

My name is myra crosbie.

I was juror 785, I guess publicly known as the egg chair.

My name is mandy pierce.

I'm from walterboro, south carolina.

I was juror 630, also jersey.

And I'm joe mccullough, a lawyer.

Why did you decide you wanted to come forward,

Reveal your identity,

And talk about your experience on alec murdock's murder trial?

Well, whenever

His lawyers had come to me

And explained some things, it didn't

All click until they had, you know, talk to me

And to let me know, you know, what becky did was

Wasn't right.

How she came into the juror room and was talking, interacting

With all of us.

So would you have ever come forward

If the lawyers hadn't come to find you and tell you that?

Becky had done something wrong?

Probably not.

Myra, how about you?

Mine was a little different.

I didn't know everything that I know now.

My initial I don't know.

After thought, after I found out a few things, I talked to mr.

Mccullough, and I just wanted people to leave me alone.

At the time,

I was still discovering things and learning things,

But I told him from day one what I knew

And that I thought it was wrong.

I didn't know the extent of what had went on, but I learned.

So what was it like when you got this jury summons?

Did you know what this trial was when you got

Summoned to the jury? Amandi?

I did.

Because of the news,

Because it was such a popular.

Well, I want to say popular, but it was a big story, right?

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Did you have a feeling when you had been hearing that big story

About whether or not alec might have killed his family?

In a way, yeah. In a way, no.

So I just.

I wanted to hear more evidence. Mm hmm.

What about for you?

What did you know about the case?

Did you think alec was guilty when you were reading about in

The papers and hearing about was.

I see.

That was my indifference. I wasn't from the area.

I married my husband

And moved to this area, but I never knew alex murdoch.

I got the jury summons and I took it to work

To let them know that I had to be there for that.

And if it wouldn't

Have been for my person, I wouldn't even know

It was a murder trial.

I just said, you're crazy.

It's just jury duty. And

Later on, I learned it was not just jury duty.

It was a double murder.

But I didn't know anything about the case, you know?

Joe, what do you say

To those who, you know, look at this process and

Remember back to the moment when dick harpootlian said

We tried to get in touch with all these jurors

After the guilty verdict and figure out

If anything untoward had happened.

For those who say that you were, you know,

Sort of shaking the tree to find out if somebody

If you could get some jurors to say something happened

That was not right.

Well, to that, I would say there is a tree

I've been shaking and that's the fair tree

To make sure even alec murdered maybe a murderer

Got a fair trial.

I was not convinced he did.

After sitting through six weeks

And then being contacted by myra first and then mandy,

It became clear to me

There were problems. Now, those were problems

I couldn't reveal to the defense.

They can't.

Had contacted me to say they had begun to reach out to jurors.

We understand that you represent one.

And I said, well, actually two.

And at that time I was speaking to other jurors and I said,

I will contact them and see if they will talk with you. So,

Mandy, what were the most pivotal moments

In the trial for you?

What really stands out in terms of the evidence that you heard?

To me, it didn't seem like

They found a murder weapon,

But then it was kind of like when you heard the video

Of the cattle and with the dogs and everybody identifying

Alec murdoch quick cash.

So they

To get way down.

Now, hey, by the

Beginning there's a chip that

Gets split.

I was like, oh my god, he was there.

But then like the timeline, it just didn't match up

And it was like they didn't do

More investigation into different things.

Mm hmm. What about for you, mara?

The cannon video is a big

Issue.

Listening to the cannon video and watching it,

I had a hard time because it was a happy family.

They were humble.

They were enjoying their cells,

And a lot of like she said, the timeline.

Things didn't add up. But

I had a

Real hard time because there, you know,

There wasn't more evidence saying, okay, you did it.

There was a lot of

What ifs possibly.

So the day that alec murdoch took the stand,

What did becky howell say about what was going to

Happen in there that day?

What you should be ready for, mandy,

She said do not be fooled by his actions.

So I was thinking, okay,

You know, he's going to lie on the stand

And don't believe what he's saying specifically.

What do you remember her saying, myra?

I remember her walking through the door

And we were all kind of lined up, getting ready to go in.

And she had an enthusiasm about her.

She came in and she said, today is going to be epic.

No, it's not right.

Yeah, it's going to be back. Yeah.

She came in and she was,

You know, like I said, she was it's going to be epic.

And she was lit up

And we're all just kind of like, what's going on?

And she said

The defense has decided that they're

Going to put alex on the stand.

And she said, now,

I don't want you to be fooled by what they say.

Play close attention to his body language, his movements.

You're going to hear a lot of things.

And then she went on to say how we were all going to be famous.

And this is, you know, just the trial of the century.

And I think a lot of oh, I can't say what other jurors heard.

I was just like, kind of like, did she really just say that?

Which thing bothered you?

Did she really just say that?

The fact she told us, you know, the way that she put it

To pay attention to the defense and don't be fooled to me.

You just told me they're going to lie

About everything they say.

Joe, the clerk

Is the closest person to the jurors, brings them in

And brings them out.

They do tend to develop

A relationship with them because it's like,

All right, you know, just two more hours

And we're going to get

A lunch break or whatever it is and maybe kind of

Keep their spirits.

Okay.

During a long trial like this,

Is there anything wrong with saying

He's going to testify today?

This is epic.

Anything illegal about that of necessity?

There has to be some person who is the intermediary

Between the court and the process and the jury,

And that's typically the clerk of court.

But our rules

Since the beginning

Of this system is that that person has to be.

And I think, you know, becky hill, in her books,

Described herself as being switzerland

Being neutral and detached and objective and non interfering.

And that clearly is not what you're hearing

From these two jurors.

And it's not what you heard in the new trial proceeding

From other jurors.

So when I sat down with gwen and amy,

They said that they did not hear any of this.

Did anyone ever indicate to you, becky,

Or anybody else that this family was sneaky,

That he shouldn't be trusted to watch him very closely,

Watching really closely when he gets up there,

Because he might try to manipulate you know,

Adding here to your part,

You're shaking your head. Why?

I can't say what they heard.

I know where they were standing when it was said, but I can't

I don't know why they said that.

You feel like they would have heard it.

Yeah, I do.

What about you, mandy?

Yeah, because

One of them was in the same room as me and myra.

Is it possible that they just didn't feel like it was

Manipulative and they weren't, that they didn't feel like

It was a big deal, that they were just,

You know, I'm going to go in there

And listen to what alec has to say.

Yeah.

Did you believe alex when he said, I didn't kill them?

Did you kill maggie?

No, I did not kill maggie.

I did not kill paul.

I would never hurt maggie and I would never hurt paul, ever,

Under any circumstances.

I listened to him and I watched his expressions

And his, as becky put it, I watched his body language.

We were told by another jury member that

Alex could turn it on and turn it off

And to notice that he was crying when the defense

Questioned him, but not when the prosecutor said.

And my take on that is

The prosecutors are talking about his financials.

You know, the defense is talking

About how stanley was murdered.

If I was a dentist and my family like that,

I would probably get emotional, too, whether he was there

And he did it, whether he saw it get it done

Or what he knows.

But to see your family laying

And the conditions that we saw on in pictures,

I kind of paid attention to what he said and how I said it.

And I kind of believed him.

I'm sure it was hard to look at the crime scene photos.

What impact did that

Have on you and did it affect your feeling about who did it?

The crime scene photos were pretty gruesome,

But then

It was real, but it wasn't right there.

To me.

It just kind of seemed like a tv show, like a show.

But I still had a lot of questions

That it just didn't seem like they got answered

Towards the end.

What about for you, myra?

The crime scene photos are horrific.

I'd be lying if I said that they didn't bother me

Because I could still close my eyes and draw some of them.

Yeah, I.

I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

What were the circumstances

Surrounding the questions that were raised

About whether or not

You had been speaking to people outside of the jury

About what was going on in the case

Because that is why you were ultimately removed.

Me and miss becky went into I don't know whose office

It was. It was an office outside.

And we walked in and she closed the door behind me

And she asked me if I had an ex-husband.

And I said, yeah, I do.

I said, I haven't seen him in over ten years.

And she said, there was a post on walterboro,

A word of mouth social platform that

I had been drinking with him and that I had offered an opinion

And I told her no,

That I have not seen him, I haven't talked to him.

I sure as hell hasn't been drinking with him.

Can I see your post?

Well, she couldn't find it and she asked me, well,

Do you have an opinion on mr. Murdoch scale?

And I told her, I said, well,

You know, I haven't really heard anything.

I'm kind of undecided.

I like to see what happens.

But your ex-husband didn't know.

I didn't post that.

I didn't know that at the time.

And I didn't know until

I want to say it was two weeks

After the trial that he never posted anything.

Who did?

Did anyone really did anyone post that?

What's your theory on that?

To my knowledge, nobody has ever posted

Anything about me being on the jury at all.

I have not seen anything.

I do know that there was an apology post

That I didn't know about until becky hill's book came out and

Didn't know who that was.

But apparently they found somebody with a similar

Name to my ex-husband that had made an apology post.

When the judge did remove you,

He said it had nothing to do with any of this.

From what I was told then, there was an

A anonymous email that came out

Saying what?

Saying the I spoke to my tenants and told them that

I had an opinion on the matter at trial.

And did that happen?

That did not happen.

So what's your theory on what was going on here?

I feel like

I was targeted.

I don't know why because

Ms.. Hill asked me on several occasions

What my opinion was, even up to the day that I was dismissed

And my cast and answer was undecided.

So she asked you how many times if you were

Decided on guilt or innocence? Oh, no, at least three.

At least three times. At least three times.

Is that conduct that is allowed

From a county clerk in no way.

Absolutely.

The most improper intervention a court official could make,

Becky, says that never happened.

Did anyone else here,

Becky, ask you if you were decided or not?

No, because we were in a closed room.

But I know what she asked me.

I also know what she said

On the evidentiary stand and said that

She just knows it wasn't her.

What we now know was a not a post from her husband.

But you assumed it was a post at the time

And you all had a conversation about it, correct.

Don't that just not answer the question?

Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am.

I believe that it was one of my staff that she talked to.

And but it was not me that she talked to.

You did not take that juror out and talk to her before

You took her to the judge.

Exactly.

I never talked to that juror about stuff like that.

The juror said she asked me if I had an ex husband,

And I said, yeah, did you ask her that?

I remember her saying this, your honor,

But I did not ask her any of these questions.

I'm not stupid. I know who I talked to.

I saw you every day for six weeks.

So what about the visit to moselle?

To the property where the murders took place

When you were at moselle mirror, you write in your book

That you walked the distances

That maggie did before she was shot.

And you said that something didn't add up

About the timeline.

Explain that for us, if you would.

If you walk

From where she was shot

From the house.

There's just no

I don't know how to describe it.

The timeline where they say she was shot,

There's not enough time to shoot here

And shoot here at the same time.

There's just no possible way or the way that they said

It happened.

I mean, you get out.

He got off of his

What do you call that side by side golf cart?

And he shoots paul and shoots paul again.

And then he goes and he shoots maggie.

When you walk that property,

I guess even

Taking a golf cart down there,

By the time you got off that golf cart

And the time that it would take over here

To shoot paul and paul, I guess, stumble forward

And then you shoot him again and then get to maggie.

There's no way that it could happen

In the time that they said,

I'm a small person, I think I can move pretty quick.

Alex is not a small person, but to be in my health

And my shape, I couldn't do it in that that quick of a time.

So I don't see how it's possible that

He because it was a long distance

It is a fairly good distance.

I mean the way that you see the pictures

And the way they show it on tv,

It looks like it's from here to that chair. It's not.

It's a lot further.

It's a lot more steps.

And you have to, I don't know, be like rambo.

Just zoom, zoom, zoom.

Put this gun down. Get over here, grab this one.

And there's I just don't see how

Their timeline that they presented.

So the day after the moselle visit, becky spoke to you.

I spoke to her that morning when we pulled up

To get on the van for the ride from our vehicle to the court

I thought was running.

And it was my ex-husband, which I haven't talked to, which was

A freak out for me.

So I look at the phone

And I went straight to the security officers

And I said, look, we have a problem.

I need to talk to becky now.

She promised me that he was not going to bother me.

And so I was a little freaked out

And I explained to her what was going on

That he's calling me.

She asked me which way it was.

I listened and I told her I really am undecided.

And that's when she said, well,

What makes you think he's guilty?

And I told her, I said, well,

The colonel video said he did lie about being there.

And she said, well, what makes you think he's not guilty?

And I told her there was no murder weapon, no guns.

And she told me on the phone that day that I needed

To get the guns out of my head.

They would never be seen again.

How did she know that?

I like to know.

So, joe, again,

If becky has denied this, that she had this conversation,

If she did,

What level of inappropriateness is that for the clerk to say?

What makes you think he was guilty?

What makes you think he was innocent?

It's new trial,

Serious.

And it what these jurors are describing

And what others have confirmed

Has all the appearance of a of a campaign,

An incursion into the privacy of the jury's

Deliberations and in an effort, a campaign to

To push to push buttons, to terrorize, even

A few days ago, I received

A complaint from a member of the public

Indicating that a juror had engaged in

Improper conversations with

Parties not associated with the case

And in order to preserve the integrity of the process

And the interests of both the state and the defense,

In a fair trial, that juror will be removed.

How close was that to closing arguments

When you were removed by the judge?

It was the day of the day.

They did deliberations prior to me being dismissed.

I was on the phone with her and she asked me once again

Had I

Decided, and I said I'd like to hear closing arguments.

Take us through what happened when he removed

You from the jury and how you felt about it.

He called me in 10 minutes after I hung out with vicky

And nolan.

You know, I mean, I had talked to him

I think, several times prior, but

He called me in and he had me go stand over there.

And I thought the way that he did

It was very respectful.

He told me, you know, he wasn't saying.

He even called answering. It was too worried.

He called me

Diligent and diligent and I paid attention because I did.

I watched

Everybody

I get I've heard rumors that they called me smiling

Because I smiled at everybody asked and I did.

And just, you know, try to be a positive person.

But when he told me that they had to do it

For the integrity of the court,

You got to remember, this time I'm thinking

My ex-husband did this and I didn't know anything about

The email or any of that.

The judge gave you a reason.

We've had some discussions with you

Over the past couple of days concerning

Indications of conversations with

A few folks, not on the jury concerning the

The case and expressing

Some opinion about the case despite my order

To not discuss the case with anyone

That intentionally or unintentionally

You've had some discussions with

Some folks not on the jury.

Some conversation was brought up concerning your

Ex-husband,

But that's not a part of this consideration at all.

When gwen

And amy said that you were you were chatty, that you

Were talking a lot to people, and that

That was their impression of why you were removed.

Because if you were talking that much with people in,

You know, when you guys

Were in the vehicles, then you were probably,

I guess, doing the same thing on the outside

Of of the time on the jury.

I'm not a chatty person.

I don't talk very much.

I listen more than anything.

I always have.

Do you think the judge made a mistake removing you?

In all honesty, I do.

You had put a lot of your time and effort into.

I did try. And it.

Why do you think you were removed from the jury?

Because they couldn't read me.

Joe, do you fault judge newman for not

Keeping the reins on becky and making sure she understood

What her job is?

Well, that's a question that lawyers have to answer

Carefully.

The process that preceded myra's removal

Included several days in camera, backstage

With the lawyers and judge newman on these matters.

I think it could have been done differently.

A more complete and backstage investigation

Might have had a different result.

And at the point that judge newman

Became

Aware that there were communications between jurors

From myra, at least at that point known to him,

That's when maybe the entire jury

Should have been polled in much the same way

Has ultimately occurred in the new trial proceeding.

Was the defense aware of becky's conversations with the jurors

And why didn't the defense step in

And have a defense was involved backstage in those proceedings.

But but ultimately, that's a judicial decision.

That's a call only the judge can make.

And, you know, I can't guess what the ultimate result

Would have been

If a more intense review of

The jury had been made at that point

Before the jury ever reached a decision

Before they ever began deliberations.

Judge newman

Wasn't happy when he learned that becky hill

Had talked to you about this facebook post,

Which turned out to be completely

Bogus or posted by someone other than your ex-husband.

What was your understanding of his feelings on that?

My understanding

Was that he was not too pleased with it.

Why did you get the nickname the egg lady?

The egg juror

I've only ever heard about the egg juror and the egg

Lady and walked in here today and met you.

This person is a lot more than just someone

Who picked up a dozen eggs.

So tell us about what happened there.

All right.

Well, one of the other jurors, he had a friend

That I guess lived next to him that had

Eggs, fresh farm, fresh eggs.

He brought like 12 dozen in for the jurors.

And he gave all of us a dozen eggs.

They weren't cooked, they weren't mold.

They were just farm fresh eggs in a car.

And and the judge asked me, what did I want to take

When I left?

I wanted my bottle of water, my purse and my dozen eggs.

Have you brought everything that you have outside of

You left some stuff in there.

What do you have in there,

Though?

Some eggs.

So a dozen eggs.

A dozen eggs

At the time.

You have to remember, we were just coming

To where groceries were ungodly and a dozen eggs was $8.

I wanted my farm fresh eggs.

I'm sorry. I'm a country girl.

I like eggs.

So what you're all suggesting just too,

Is that becky hill was manipulating this jury

To make sure that alec murdoch was found guilty.

Correct.

Do you believe that? Yes.

Do you believe that? I do.

Do you believe that you

You know, I know becky hill only through this trial.

I like her personally.

I don't know whether she had this grand scheme.

We know now that she was writing a book.

Maybe she saw a guilty

Verdict is more profitable than a not guilty.

But whether she is genuinely the wizard behind the curtain

In all of this.

Yeah, I don't think anyone knows that.

Mandy, how did

How did you decide that alec was guilty?

Well, at first I was undecided

And then we

Then we discussed

A little bit more and

To me it just kind of seemed like

Everybody was just getting like, anxious,

Like the smokers and

Everybody was just ready to go home.

So I guess

I was like, okay, then I guess would just say he's

Guilty because,

You know, obviously he was going to go to jail

For the financial stuff. So

I just agreed with everybody else.

Well, it was a very quick verdict.

I remember that night. Yes.

When you first went back in

After the closing arguments and the deliberations began,

Did they initially

Pull the jury, the foreperson, say,

Guilty or innocent and go around the room

After we got our coffee? Spin? Yeah,

We they

Took a poll we all wrote on a piece of paper

And what did you write on that?

Well, I was undecided.

Did you write undecided? Yes.

And then there was two no's,

And then everybody else was yes.

So then we kind of all just kind of talked.

We pulled some evidence out.

A lot of people that had more knowledge

With guns, they talked about the guns and

They talked about the water hose

And all the other

Little things that

Other people had questions about.

And then towards the end, they asked

If everybody was ready to take another poll.

And we did.

And it was

Anonymous.

Everybody said yes.

Do you believe he was guilty?

I still had questions.

What was your biggest hurdle

In your doubt?

They didn't never find the the murder weapons,

But in many murder trials, there was not a weapon

There. To me.

I felt like they

They had already like

Had in their minds that he was guilty,

Like they didn't like try to look for anybody else.

So at the

Evidentiary hearing,

11 of the 12 said that they weren't influenced by

Becky hill.

And you testified that you were influenced by her.

Was your verdict

Influenced in any way

By the communications of the clerk report in this case?

No, ma'am. It was not.

Absolutely not.

W no, no, no, no, it was not.

No, ma'am.

No, ma'am.

No, ma'am, it was not.

No. Yes, ma'am.

How do you feel about that now?

I still feel that way.

Who do you think persuaded you to

A guilty verdict?

A little bit of what becky said.

And then also some of the jurors.

Would you put a percentage on that?

How much of it was the jurors?

How much of it was what becky said?

It's probably 50, 50,

50, 50.

Yeah.

Yeah.

11 of the jurors very unconditionally said

That either heard no comment or if they heard a comment,

It had no effect.

One juror was ambivalent in her testimony.

She was then examined her previous affidavit

In which she said the effect, if any,

That she had was pressure she felt from other jurors.

The cases are myriad.

That pressure from fellow jurors

Is a part of the normal give and take of jury deliberations.

The court is not in quite in any way

About what is said in those deliberations.

I simply do not believe

That the authority of our south carolina supreme court

Requires a new trial in a very lengthy trial

Such as this,

On the strength of some fleeting and foolish comments

By publicity influenced clerk of court.

So joe, in the end

Was not granted a new trial based

On becky's behavior.

Right.

And now the supreme court is reviewing this decision.

What happens next?

Well, it's significant

That the supreme court, the appeals of both

Both the murder conviction and this new trial denial,

Both went to our intermediate court of appeals.

It is significant that in state supreme court,

The highest appellate court we have reached down,

Took it away from the court of appeals

And now is going to hear it in its original jurisdiction.

They've combined and taken both appeals.

So the supreme court feels some urgency about this,

And it's going to be very interesting.

And what comes next for becky hill?

Well, you know, I hate it for her.

She has good lawyers.

She is in that unfortunate phase

Of being under investigation for a variety of things,

Which include this jury tampering allegation,

Some financial allegations of impropriety.

It has cannot be a happy place.

So you decided to write a book about your experience.

What do you hope to get from publishing your story?

The truth gets out that

I never wanted to write a book.

I think it's something the court should have done.

They should have got it out.

The truth.

I've always said from day one

It wasn't about innocence, it wasn't about guilt.

It's about a fair trial, a fair process,

And everybody should have that.

Do you think murdoch is a murderer?

I can't say if he is.

I can't say if he is a I can say that

I wasn't convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.

Do you think alex murdoch murdered his family?

It's hard to say,

But you put guilty on the paper.

I did? Yes. Why?

Because it's a lot of other

Jurors kind of

Person

Weighted me.

I guess that

There is no way that he didn't do it.

Thank you all very much.

Great to have you with us today.

Thanks for sharing your story.

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