All language subtitles for 2richardramireztapes

[insects and frogs chirping]

[gravel crunching underfoot]

-[woman] Ready?
-[man] Ready, ready.

We're rolling. Marker.

[soft, poignant music playing]

[woman]
I interview a lot of people.

I'm Vicki Liviakis at the old
Oakland Civic Auditorium.

I've been a reporter,
a correspondent, a host.

I've pretty much done it all
as a journalist.

I have tapes
that go back 30 years.

Trying to get an interview
with you

is like trying to get
an audience with the pope.

I'm always fascinated
with characters

that are on the margins.

I heard about Doreen Lioy,
and this was just curious.

It seemed that Doreen
was a key player

in the world of Richard Ramirez.

[dark musical sting]

The Night Stalker
may have struck again.

[reporter] The attacker is on
a state-wide crime spree.

Police believe Ramirez
is the Night Stalker
who has terrorized California,

committing at least
16 murders there recently.

[Liviakis] I reached out
to Doreen,

and after having spent
countless hours on the phone,

listening to every detail

of her relationship
with Richard,

Doreen called me and said,

"Richard and I are gonna
tie the knot."

[grim music playing]

[Liviakis] The wedding was going
to happen at San Quentin,

and I thought, "Well, this would
be a good documentary."

I hired a crew.

We met with Doreen
the day before the wedding,

and I asked her if she could
bring her wedding dress,

and she ended up
wearing her dress.

It was like any blushing bride,

you know, about to be married

to the man of her dreams.

But once I realized that
I couldn't get into San Quentin

to interview Richard Ramirez,

I put the tapes away
and just let 'em sit.

And I just lost track.

I didn't even know,
if I found them,

what condition they'd be in.

Then it became a quest.

And then finally,
there it was...

the tape.

I watched it
and just was captivated,

going back in time.

It was just a chapter
in all our lives,

California, Los Angeles,
San Francisco,

neighborhoods, you know,

families, victims.

You know,
people whose lives were changed.

Now, Doreen, it is reported,

and you've maintained
that you are a virgin.

Yes.

[Liviakis] Because no one
was good enough?

No, I just never found
the right one.

Never found the one
who made me feel that way,

to whom I would commit myself
in that way.

So what happened
when you met Richard Ramirez?

Oh...

I'd say magic happened.

He just...
When I met him, I knew.

I knew he was
the right one for me.

[ominous musical sting]

[police sirens blaring
in distance]

[grim, ominous music playing]

[reporter] Richard Ramirez
was brought in shackles
to his trial,

finally beginning
3.5 years after his arrest.

He is accused of 43 crimes,

13 murders, many counts
of robbery and rape.

Many spectators crowded around

for a glimpse
of an accused serial killer.

Prosecutors will try to prove
it was Ramirez

who terrorized Los Angeles
in the spring of 1985.

[solemn music playing]

So...

[Eva O] Oh, this photo here?
Um...

I think this is in
the trial courtroom.

[clerk]
The People Vs. Richard Ramirez.

[Eva O] I would watch him
on the news every night,

so I asked Richard,
"Can you wave to me

so I can know it's actually you
who I'm writing to

and that you recognize
I'm watching you?"

And he actually
did that a few times.

He went and looks over,
and he...

And I'm like, "Oh my gosh,
he actually did it."

And he actually said that
in his letters, you know?

"I'll wave to you
on the camera."

[Johnston] When Richard Ramirez
shows up to court
the first time before the trial,

he is reserved.
He puts his head down.

He doesn't wanna be involved
in the limelight.

That changes.

[dark music playing]

Because one of the things
that becomes apparent
to Richard Ramirez

is that women
are paying attention to him.

And he starts realizing

that, "Hey, this is a new source
of power for me.

I mean, I've spent my life
with women

really not being interested
in me at all,

and now I've got a fan base.

I've got people who are
hanging on my every word,

my every gesture,
my every wink."

And he very quickly
starts playing to the camera.

[Yochelson] The circus begins.

In true Los Angeles
showbiz tradition...

Ramirez tried to make it
all about him,

tried to be the celebrity.

There was this whole group
of women who would come,

and they were attracted
to Ramirez.

He reminds me of Mick Jagger.

It's a very lurid case.

It's got all sorts of elements

that are very appealing
to the populace.

-[reporter] And to you?
-Sex and violence.
Yeah, to me in particular.

[reporters clamoring]

[grim, heavy music playing]

[Eva O] He's a very handsome,
striking guy.

And I was really hung up
on this rock star thing.

Obviously, I was trying
to be a rock star.

He's got
all this security around him
when he goes to court.

He's in the magazines every day,
newspapers every day.

The news media
and all them around him,

they're using it
as entertainment.

People try to act like it's not.
It is.

Ramirez may have killed
as many as 16 people.

That's why people watch it.

I told him,
I was like, "Richard,
you're like a rock star.

You should wear dark sunglasses
and black suits and stuff

and just pull on that character,
you know?"

He started wearing sunglasses,
and he started being
that persona.

[poignant instrumentals playing]

[Johnston] When you look
at the attraction
to Richard Ramirez,

the motives can be things

ranging from wanting to save
this person...

...or having a traumatic history
themselves...

to individuals
who really do get off

on the violence and the blood.

And then, of course, we cannot
overlook the fame angle

because it's a vicarious way
to be famous themselves.

[dramatic music playing]

[Schreck] I watched
Richard's metamorphosis.

He went from being
Richard Ramirez the human being

to the Night Stalker,
this-this supervillain.

It was the whole feeling
that we're involved

in some sort of Los Angeles
show business phenomenon.

It was Richard's bizarre
dark celebrity.

[Carrillo] Richard, every day
walked into court,

and he'd stare at the crowd
that were the audience.

He'd pick one woman,
"That's the good-looking one.

That's the one
I want contact with."

So he'd give her a smile
and he'd go sit down.

[Nelson] I was 18 years old
at that time.

It was really hard
to be in that courtroom
and to look at him,

knowing what he had done
to my grandma.

He was very arrogant,
and he had groupies.

And he would
pull his glasses down

and kind of check you out.

He kept turning around
and looking at us,

and I didn't know if he was
trying to intimidate me

or if he was trying
to figure out if I was there

as maybe one of his groupies.

He was so evil.

You could feel

the evil in that room.

[somber music playing]

[Juarez] My brother and myself
were living in El Paso

during the trial.

My high school friends
would bring the newspaper,

and so, I've known
some of the details
about the crime scenes.

It was heartbreaking.

It's not right, what he did,

and he had to face those
consequences of his actions.

I always wrote
to my Uncle Richard.

I would get out some
of the feelings I was feeling

getting mad at him

through my letters
because of the situation

that he had put
my immediate family in.

It broke up our family.

The hardest part of the trial

was the fact that my mom
had to testify.

She had to see the pictures
of her parents.

She had to describe the scene
of what she found.

There were so many questions
for her,

and it was tragic to watch her

and the victims go through it.

It was horrible.

[solemn piano instrumentals
playing]

[Lioy on tape] Mm-hmm.

[Carlo, indistinct]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[gentle, unsettling music
playing]

[Horner] Doreen put a lot
into her job,

but she made a way to visit him.

I was actually shocked
when I found out

that she had developed
a relationship with this man.

I just couldn't believe it.

At the magazine,
she didn't really want anybody

to talk to her about this.

After that, I just didn't really
deal with her anymore.

And Doreen became
Richard Ramirez's superfan.

She was his ride-or-die chick.

[dramatic music playing]

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[grim, ominous music playing]

[Ramirez]

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Carlo]

[Ramirez]

[Carlo]

[Ramirez]

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Carlo] Yeah. Yeah.

[grim, poignant music playing]

[reporter] For months,
a jury in Los Angeles

has been hearing
prosecution testimony

linking accused Night Stalker
Richard Ramirez

to 13 murders in 1984 and 1985.

[reporter] Ramirez smirked,
scowled, and grimaced
at television cameras.

Mostly, the man accused
of heinous crimes

just rocked and fidgeted.

He tried out new looks.

A business suit one day,

a rock and roll leather jacket
the next.

Most often,
he hid behind sunglasses,

and always his feet
shackled in steel.

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[Lioy]

[solemn music playing]

[Yochelson]
It was a lengthy trial.

We had so many homicide victims,

so many survivors,
so many people

who were impacted by this case.

Then finally, we got the word
that the jury had a verdict.

"We the jury, in the above
entitled action..."

[Yochelson]
In Los Angeles County,

he was convicted
of 13 counts of murder.

-Guilty of murder...
-[Yochelson] In addition
to that,

there were 30 other felonies
for which he received
determinant sentences.

Guilty of rape...

Guilty as charged
on all of the counts.

I truly believe justice
was done for these victims.

Ramirez was never going to harm
anybody again.

How do you guys feel
about these verdicts?

[chatter, cheering]

"Relieved" is a good word.

I'm glad it's over.

About a week and a half later,
we got the death verdicts
in this very solemn moment.

The actual sentencing,
the families gave
victim impact statements.

[Nelson] I felt like
it was so important

to be like a representative
for my grandma.

[somber music playing]

It was just my own way
to defy him,

to try and...

share with the court how much
we were gonna miss out on

because she was taken from us.

"I'm just speaking for
all my other cousins
and my brothers and sister

because I don't think our lives
will ever be the same."

[Zazzara] "For every person
that he killed,

he has put so many others
through so much pain."

"A lifetime of pain
that will always be there."

"I just can't imagine
how scared she must have been.

I think Richard Ramirez
forfeited his right to life

when he killed my grandma."

"When he killed my stepmother
and my dad

and all those other
innocent people."

"And I think he should pay
for what he did."

Absolutely true.

Absolutely true.

[Carlo on tape]

[both laughing]

[grim music playing]

[Schreck] When the trial
was over,

he said, "Would you help me
write something

that would be like a really good
statement?"

It was just like
at a script conference.

And we talked about that,
and then he edited it.

[Schreck] It was so cynical.
You know, it was not real.

It was, what would be
the most dramatic way to do it?

It was like dealing with
a celebrity or a performer.

[intensely grim instrumentals
playing]

[Yochelson] Richard Ramirez
was convicted
of 13 counts of murder.

He received the death penalty.

[reporters shouting]

[Carlo] Right.

[Carlo] Right.

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[Martin] The investigative team
was very much responsible

for identifying
and bringing Ramirez to justice.

But I don't think
there's any sentence

that could redeem
or make people whole

for the crimes
that Richard committed.

[Liviakis] Once Richard
was sentenced in Los Angeles,

he was flown right to the heart
of the city

to the San Francisco County Jail

where anybody
could really access him.

[dramatic music playing]

There were many women
lurking around,
wanting to visit him.

He told us he got all kinds
of requests from young women.

The intense interest in him
as a sex symbol

went through the roof.

[Brucato] What we see
is an inflation of his ego

into someone who believes that
he can manipulate the public

and be attractive and powerful

because he has nothing to lose
anymore.

[Liviakis] Cops call me
from time to time.
They have a story.

So I got a call about
these women masturbating
in front of the glass

at San Francisco County Jail.

And there was one inmate
in particular
that they were hot for...

[tense music playing]

Richard Ramirez.

[reporter] The jail's
most notorious inmate

draws a steady stream
of women visitors.

I wanted to see what
he looked like. He's cute.

He's a nice person,
'cause I've met him and I know.

[Liviakis] These women knew that

he enjoyed maiming,
raping, slaughtering

these innocent people.

He got off on it.

[music building]

[Liviakis]
Maybe that is what the devil is.

He comes disguised
as somebody with swagger

and sex appeal

and will demonstrate
sides of himself

that show vulnerability, humor.

How can he be so masterful
as to manipulate that?

He was a master at it.

And they were his slaves.

[music crescendos, fades]

[birds squawking]

[ominous music playing]

[Carlo]

[Ramirez]

[electric guitar playing]

[Eva O] I used to visit Richard
in prison.

[ominous music playing]

[Eva O] I'd visit him,
like, every few days

until he opened the visitations
for everybody,

and I didn't want
to compete with that.

It ended up like a circus.
Like, I would try to visit,

and people would be
waiting already to visit him.

They already got my spot.

It was like, dude, I can't.

I didn't have time
to think about other girls

and if they were visiting
Richard.

You know, I have a life
on the outside.

[dramatic music playing]

[Liviakis] I think Richard,
he was in love with her.

They were simpatico.

They were cut
from the same cloth.

Don't tell Doreen that,
but... you know.

Doreen was super jealous
'cause there were younger,
prettier women

that were vying
for his affection.

But she was determined to win,

and she made it clear
that she would give it up,

all of it.

[Johnston] Doreen
moves to San Francisco,

and she begins visiting him
four or five times a week.

She gives up really any chance
of having a normal life

and having normal relationships
with other people.

[water lapping gently]

[solemn music playing]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Lioy]

[Horner] To go from being
the editor of a magazine

that only covered
positive stories

about young people

to being involved with somebody

that would be fodder
for a crime series,

I would just hate to think
that someone I knew

changed that drastically.

But I feel that for Doreen,

Richard Ramirez was
the ultimate safe boyfriend.

Because there was
no physical intimacy.

They were not able to have
any real physical contact.

[dramatic music playing]

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Liviakis] So all the hours
that I spent talking with Doreen

led up to the final moment
where she said,

"The prison has finally relented
and I'm gonna get married."

[grim music playing]

[Johnston]
There have been questions about
why end up with Doreen

when he has other people
he could choose from?

I don't think that Richard's
attraction to Doreen

was sexual in nature.

The fact that she was a virgin,

the fact that she was
so devoted to him.

She showed him.
She moved for him.

She put money
in his commissary account,

gave him clothes,
contacted his family
and helped them.

Doreen outlasted
the other groupies.

And in a way, rightfully so,

because she was so devoted
and loyal to him.

[dramatic music playing]

[Liviakis] So when it came time
for the wedding,

Richard and Doreen were aware

that it was their time,
their moment in the sun,

and they were gonna
make the most of it.

Doreen and I had arranged

to do a sit-down interview
the day before,

across from San Quentin
in a cheap motel,

and Phil Carlo
was all part of this whole deal.

Phil was very dismissive
of Doreen,

but I think he also
looked at her

as part of his gravy train.

[gentle, poignant music playing]

[tonal beep]

-[Liviakis] Rolling? Cool. Okay.
-[man] Yeah.

[dramatic music playing]

[Liviakis] We had her in a room,
and we sat down.

-So the bride is wearing white.
-Right.

I'm entitled to.

I can wear it honestly.

[Liviakis] You have
the wedding bands.

-[Lioy] Yes, yes.
-[Liviakis] They're very simple.

Maybe describe them and what
inspired you to get them.

[Lioy] Mine is just a simple
14-karat gold band,

and his is platinum,
which was his request.

And considering
that's his only request
about the wedding,

I was only too happy
to get that done for him.

And we engraved them.
Whoops. [giggles]

-And what do they say?
-[Lioy] His to me says,

"To my one and only love.
Richard."

And mine to him says,
"I love you forever. Doreen."

And we can exchange these
tomorrow.

[Liviakis] So can you
honestly say,

when you look deep into
your heart and your soul,

that you love this man?

Oh, with all my heart.

More than anything.

-Does he love you?
-Oh, he loves me.

I feel his love.

It's really the only thing
I have to cling to.

And I do.

[Liviakis] Is this love?

Um, well, I...

You know, it's-it's relative
in a sense, but I-I do believe

that she's totally
in love with him,

smitten by him.

Does he love her?

[Liviakis] Does he love her?

I think he trusts her
more than anybody in the world,

more than his own family.

He knows she would do
anything for him.

If he said,
"Lie down on a railroad track,"
she would.

And she wouldn't ask why.

And she'd keep her eyes open
and watch the train coming.

[dark music playing]

[Liviakis] You touched
for the first time last month.

What was that like for you?

It was amazing. Uh...

It was almost like a...

a dying person in the desert,
and there was a mirage,

and I was afraid
if I touched him,
he would disappear.

But he didn't.
He didn't disappear.
It was wonderful.

We had our first embrace
and, uh,

he was warm and strong
and just...

i-it was wonderful.

[Johnston] Doreen is somebody
who, for years,

has taken pride
in saving herself
for her wedding night.

And there is such irony
in the fact

that there are no conjugal
visits allowed

for inmates on death row.

So this is another thing

that she's willing to give up
for Richard.

[Liviakis] Is your family
going to be at the wedding?

-No.
-They don't support you in this,
do they?

Well, they're entitled
to their opinion.

I don't hold it against them
at all.

It's very difficult.

But I have the support
of Richard's family.

They're totally supportive.

So, to me, that's a trade-off

and then a compromise.

[somber music playing]

[Horner] I know for a fact

that close friends and relatives
were outraged.

Why would she be willing
to forsake her family

for someone of this nature?

Only thing that I could say is

she probably felt
that she could really help him.

And for her, to know that
this attractive man,

regardless of having committed
these horrific crimes,

he was paying a lot of attention
to her,

and that could be incredible
to somebody

who hadn't been
in that situation before.

[Lioy] It wasn't fear.
I didn't say to myself...

[Liviakis] I spent a lot of time
with Doreen,

and I put the question to her
directly.

I said, "So...

you're looking at this guy,
and you look at Richard Ramirez,

and you see the man
of your dreams."

But there are many who would
look Ramirez in the eye

and say he's the face of evil.

I can't help the way
the world looks at him.

They don't know him
the way I do.

I see sides to him
that they don't see.

[Liviakis] Do you believe
he committed the crimes?

No. Not at all.

Not at all.
I believe in his innocence.

[Liviakis] It would be easy
to look at Doreen and say

she's gullible,

she got swept up into
the serial killer frenzy.

Or you could say, as an editor,

she was part of creating
that narrative

to speak in his defense

and to convince the world
of his innocence.

And finally, after all these
years of her hard work,

she earned the ultimate prize,

which was to be the bride
of the Night Stalker.

[moody music playing]

[Liviakis] On the wedding day,

Phil Carlo was actually
one of the only people

allowed in the ceremony.

He kinda wormed his way in.

[man] I think
she's coming out now.

[Liviakis] He got in there.
I did not.

[man] You got anything?
She there?

[Liviakis] I waited outside
with the rest of the reporters.

Phil described the ceremony.

Richard was wearing prison garb,

which were jeans
and a dungaree shirt.

Uh, the ceremony was in
a kind of cafeteria-type room.

And then the public relations
guy for San Quentin

held up the picture
of the happy couple.

-Can you just hold it up?
-[man 1] Hold it right there.

[Carlo] Yeah.

[man 2] Did he kiss the bride?

[Carlo] They were allowed
to kiss.

Just a peck.
No kind of deep, soulful kiss.

And, uh, they held hands.

Uh, and then it was over.

[indistinct chatter on radio]

[Zazzara] The fact that
he got married in prison,

it's a mockery to any justice
that we might have.

It's just a joke.

I got a lot of calls
from my cousins back East,

and they were just livid
about it.

We were too.
We just couldn't believe it.

[Nelson] I didn't understand
why that would be allowed,

especially knowing how much
I missed my grandma
on the day that I got married.

And all that had been
taken away from my family.

And Doreen, his wife,

I felt sorry for her.

I'll never understand it.

[grim music playing]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Certainly.

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[soft, dramatic music playing]

So many of our decisions
in relationships
are guided by our emotions.

There's an extreme form of that
which can be very unhealthy,

and that is when we just refuse
to believe any evidence

because of what that would
mean to us emotionally.

"If I've invested so much
in this person,

if I've given up my entire
family for this person,

I've moved for this person,
I've lost so much,"

at some point, it becomes,

"I can't go back."

[solemn music playing]

[birds squawking]

[Liviakis] After the dust
had settled,

the marriage,
he was behind bars,

she had moved nearby the prison

so that she could visit him.

She was working
at a menial kind of job.

Obviously, they couldn't
cohabitate as man and wife,

but she wanted to stay
as close as she could to him.

And eventually,
everybody kind of forgot
about Richard Ramirez.

It's part of the dusty past.

You know, another guy
on death row,

rotting in prison
where he belonged.

Who cares? Good riddance.

That was the attitude.
And then, boom,

out of the blue comes a break
in a cold case.

[suspenseful music playing]

[crewman] Thank you.

My name is Holly Pera,

and I'm a inspector
and a sergeant

with the San Francisco
Police Department.

In 1998,

I got to the homicide detail,
and when I got there,

Joe was working in the unit
as well.

[Toomey] She was the first woman

assigned to the homicide detail
in San Francisco,

and I became her partner.

I don't know why.
It just clicked.

[Pera] In 2009,
the chief asked Joe and asked me

if we would start
the cold case squad
in the homicide detail...

and we did.

I remember back in 1984,

there was a particular case
that just wasn't solved.

And it's a case that, you know,
that kind of sticks with you

because it involved a child.

And that was one of the cases
that we decided to look at.

[grim music playing]

[Toomey] On April 10th, 1984,

a nine-year-old girl,

the daughter
of Chinese immigrants,

named Mei Leung,

was walking home from school

along with her younger brother.

They entered through the front
of the apartment building.

[Toomey] The brother
went upstairs to his mother.

Mei went downstairs
into the basement.

And within a very short period
of time,

she encountered a suspect...

who accosted her.

At some point,
she was sexually assaulted

and strangled.

Mei's clothing was strewn about.

There was also a cloth,
like a handkerchief,

that was found
right by her body.

Semen was on the handkerchief.
But we were limited.

This was before DNA typing
became standard.

A very extensive investigation
was done,

but eventually it went cold,

and they weren't able
to solve the case.

[grim music playing]

[Pera] And so, in 2009,

that was one of the cases
that was assigned now

to the cold case detail.

Joe and I submitted
that handkerchief
to the crime lab

to try to raise
some sort of DNA evidence

to see if they could enter that
into a database

and hopefully get a hit.

[dramatic music playing]

[Toomey] Short time later,
we were out at another case,

and we got a call and were told
that there was a match.

[Pera] And I thought,
"Oh, wow, okay."

Positive for somebody
named Richard Ramirez.

Okay, so we'll try to figure out
does he have a record
here in San Francisco,

or who is he?

And so Joe goes,
"Richard Ramirez?
The Night Stalker."

I mean, of course, it was like
being hit with a lightning bolt.

Like, oh my God.

Joe and I pulled up all kinds
of old articles about him,

and we picked up a book
called "The Night Stalker,"

read about his cases,

and we quickly realized
by looking at the dates...

that our case with Mei Leung
was probably his first case.

[tense music playing]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Ramirez]

[Toomey] When they told us
the inmate's name

is Richard Ramirez,

who was on death row
in San Quentin,

I was a little taken back
that this poor little girl

was murdered
by the Night Stalker...

who, from what I knew,

he had never murdered
any children.

And I didn't know much about
his child molesting background.

[Carrillo] Back in 1984, 1985,

there was a series
of child abductions
that had gone on,

same vicinity as the murders
that transpired,

at least two
with Avia footprints at 'em.

There was a little
six-year-old girl,

and she identified
Richard Ramirez as her abductor.

And she says,
"I'll go to court and testify

if it'll keep him from hurting
any other little girls

like he hurt me."

[Yochelson] It was decided
that it would just be better

not to prosecute those cases,

putting the children through it
when we had these other crimes

that were probably going to
carry the death penalty.

So the team didn't present
that evidence.

[dramatic music playing]

[Toomey] After we found out
it was the Night Stalker,

we got a warrant
to go take a swab

from Richard Ramirez

and confirm our findings.

[Pera] He was brought to us
in a cage

that was a little bit taller
than his body
and a little bit wider.

[indistinct chatter]

He actually looked frail
to me...

and older,
and not particularly healthy.

But those eyes
were still the same.

They were very, very piercing.

I said a Hail Mary.

You could see evil
coming out of this man.

[dramatic musical sting]

[Toomey] After taking the swab,
he said,

"What's this all about,
Inspector?"

And I said,
"You remember the little girl
on O'Farrell Street?"

And you could see in his eyes
that he knew we got him.

[soft, dramatic music playing]

[Pera] There was no denial.

There's no,
"It won't be my DNA swab."

None of that.

They compared it
with the evidence

that was found
on the handkerchief,

and it was a match.

So Richard Ramirez's first case

ended up being the last case
to be solved.

And so it was
kind of a satisfying feeling

to know that we
kind of had these bookends.

[solemn music playing]

I'm sure there were
more children molested by him
that never came to light.

You know, where the child
never said anything
or they never identified him.

I'm positive there are.

It would be very unusual
for a child molester to stop,

you know,
until they're actually caught.

[grim music playing]

[Juarez] In 2009,
when I heard about

the little girl
that had been molested

and killed in San Francisco,

and how his DNA was connected
to that murder...

Wow. Wow.

I was surprised,

because then I started
looking at the dates,

and this little girl was killed

on April 10th, 1984.

Exactly three months and 18 days

after the last time
he molested me.

[moody music playing]

[Juarez] I was six years old.

My brother and myself
had traveled to El Paso
for the summer

to visit grandparents.

That's when, uh, it started.

My mom told my Uncle Richard,

"I'm gonna jump in the shower.
Can you watch the kids?"

He said yeah.

And I was laying on my tummy
on the floor

watching "Sesame Street."

And then all of a sudden,

he got down on the floor
next to me.

[solemn music playing]

[Juarez] He turned me around,

and he was trying to
take down my...

my underwear and my shorts.

Told him no,
and I was tugging at them.

And then, all of a sudden,
he heard the shower go off,

and he stopped,
he jumped back on the sofa,

and then I finished
pulling up my...

my underwear and my shorts.

Then when he moved in with us,

it lasted as long as
he lived with us.

Five years.

[ominous music playing]

[crickets chirping]

[Juarez] A lot of times,
it happened during the night.

He slept in the same room
with us.

And I'd just continue
to pretend to be asleep.

But I never said anything.

I never said anything.

Pretending is very common
in dysfunctional homes.

Pretending is something
you learn to do very early on.

At that age,
you think it's your fault

that these things
are happening to you.

Maybe something I said to him,

maybe something I did,
and so it's my fault.

So because it's my fault,
I better keep it a secret.

You blame yourself as a child.

[dramatic music playing]

[indistinct police radio
chatter]

Police in Los Angeles believe
they have their man,
Richard Ramirez.

The summer he was arrested,
I had just turned 14,

and because of the media frenzy
that was going on,

my aunt took us camping
in New Mexico.

[mellow, solemn music playing]

[Juarez] There's a song
that's an oldie that says...

* In the desert,
you can't remember your name *

* Because there ain't no one
to give you no pain *

["A Horse With No Name"
by America playing faintly]

That was my song.

-[song fades out]
-[somber music playing]

[Juarez] Because I would come
to the desert,

and she let me be a kid.

She let me be a kid.

[voice breaking]
Those were special times.

[grim, somber music playing]

[Juarez] Later...

I wrote to my best friend.

I told her what had happened
to me with my uncle.

The letter
was returned to sender,

and my mom opened it.

And she hand-carried it
to my grandmother,

Richard's mother.

[soft, poignant music playing]

[Juarez]
My grandmother confronted me.

"You wrote that
Richie had molested you,"

and I told Grandma,
"Grandma, it's true."

Then she said, "No, no. No, no.

I don't believe you.
I don't believe you."

And I told her, "Okay, Grandma,"
and that was it.

I didn't say anything.

In 2009, when I heard

his DNA was connected
to that murder...

I thought, "Now they have DNA.

Now my grandma
has to believe me,

and my mom has to believe me."

But whether they believe me
or not,

that's their choice.

I don't have anything else
to prove.

[grim, heavy music playing]

[Carlo] Right.

[Carlo] Right. Right.

[Ramirez]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Ramirez]

[Ramirez laughs]

[Schreck] When the media gave
Richard this glamorous name,

the Night Stalker, he loved it,

as one gets the impression
that Jack the Ripper did
in Victorian London.

The question is, why is America
especially fascinated

with glamorizing murder?

This very mentally ill young man

went from being
rather shy and retiring
when I first met him

to having almost like
a movie star aura and charisma.

He suddenly found himself
kind of like a teen idol

and having all of this
feminine attention.

Richard was given a second life

by becoming this celebrity,
the Night Stalker.

But I think he always had
a death wish.

[tense, unsettling music
playing]

[Ramirez] Yeah.

[dark, somber music playing]

[Liviakis] For years, I wondered

where was Doreen
and what became of her.

[Lioy speaks indistinctly]

[Liviakis] The only time
I saw Doreen
after her wedding day

was years later.

She was working
at a party supply store,

and I ran into her
quite by accident.

I was getting
some party supplies for kids,

and she was behind the register.

I recognized her instantly.

And she averted her eyes
and put her head down,

and her body language
messaged that,

"Please, do not acknowledge me
in any way."

[Lioy] ...crimes.

And I looked at his face,
and I...

I don't know what it was,
but there was something
in his eyes

that just-- it captivated me.

[Liviakis] I heard she just
kinda went underground,

just sort of doesn't wanna be...

seen.

I can't understand
what happened,

but I believe that there was
a breaking point,

and she finally cut the cord
with Richard

when faced with the evidence

of the murder
of a nine-year-old little girl.

I think the DNA evidence

was in her face,

and she couldn't rationalize it
anymore.

I didn't hear her say that,
but I believe she couldn't
negotiate around that.

[dramatic music playing]

[Schreck] He committed
these atrocious crimes

which he described
with relish and abandon
and-and pride.

But the child molesting,

I think that he must have had
some shame about.

He never mentioned
the child molestation.

He never mentioned the raping
and killing of little girls,

and I definitely would have had
a different feeling about him

had I known.

[Brucato] I would like
to think that Ramirez

was ashamed of having
committed child abuse,

but I think he was more ashamed

that there was no strength
or power needed
to take those victims.

This is a person who would have
been very aware of his image,

and I think he would fear that
he was seen as deeply pathetic

and not to mention vulnerable.

Even in prison, they don't
respect you for having done that

because it's such a pathetic,
cowardly thing to do.

[Eva O] I look back at it
and think about it myself.
I think,

"Why would you talk
to somebody like that?

Why would you put somebody
like that in your life?"

I was a different person
back then.

I got really extreme about
people that I got obsessed with.

It turns twisted, you know,
at that point.

It's a twisted thing, and...

I don't call that love.

I-I-- It's a mental illness.
[laughs]

With Richard,
I was angry at the world,

and he saw how angry I was
at everything.

So I felt like I could
open up to him about that.

[chickens clucking
and squawking]

[Eva O]
I don't hate the world anymore.

And I'm trying
to clean my brain out.

I know I can't erase
what's in there,

but I wanna not add more to it.

[gentle music playing]

[Juarez] When he was in prison,
all through the years,

I always wrote to him.

I was still pretending
that he never molested me.

Until...

I confronted him in my letters.

In my letters,
I started talking to him

about those times
that I was pretending
to be asleep.

And then he apologized to me.

That meant a lot to me,
to have it in black and white.

He says, "Yes, sweetie,
I know you were pretending
to be asleep.

I don't know what to say.

Anyway, sorry about those times.

Even though we had bad times,

I loved you then,
and I love you now."

[whimpers softly]
That's what he said.

It's a hard thing to love those
that don't deserve to be loved.

Part of my healing
is learning to forgive him,

but when I forgive him,

it doesn't mean that I condone
what he did.

Today...

today I'm doing good.

I'm-I'm doing really good.

All the trauma
that I went through...

now, with those experiences,

every single day,
I get to walk into a prison

where I teach men

that are getting ready
to be released into society,

and I get to show these men
that there is a way out.

I get to step into
the devil's pit
and pull them out.

[traffic humming]

[car horn honking]

[dramatic music playing]

[Carrillo] June 7th, 2013.

I'm at my grandson's--

he's graduated from junior high
into high school.

And when it was over,
I looked at my phone.

I had to have
at least 40 messages on there.

[anchor] Richard Ramirez,
the serial killer

known as the Night Stalker,
is dead.

The California Department
of Corrections said

Ramirez died of natural causes
today in a hospital

after spending more than
two decades on death row.

[Juarez] He died of
non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.

No one in the family
knew that he had this.

He hadn't informed
any family member.

When he died,
Doreen and my Uncle Richard
were going through a divorce,

and being that the divorce
had not been finalized,

the ashes went to her.

She was supposed
to bring the ashes to El Paso

to be scattered on the mountain,
but that never happened.

Later on, we found out
that there was a box

that used to have his ashes

on display
in a museum in Las Vegas.

[playing melancholy music
on piano]

To this day,
women who are attracted to him
contact me

just to glean a little bit
of connection to their hero.

[grim music playing]

I try to disenchant them
and tell them, you know,

"He would've raped you.
He would've cut your throat.

He would've taken
your eyes out."

I try to warn them,
"Do not romanticize
Richard Ramirez."

[melancholy piano music
continues]

[soft, poignant music playing]

There's an amazing aspect
to the story

in my family
and how they've survived.

They've learned to forgive,

and they're still
teaching that to me

all these years later.

[Zazzara] My dad was a hero.

I was thinking about
the good times we had.

I was thankful
for what I did have.

Because, honestly,
a lot of people don't have that.

I was lucky.

I am.

[Sandoval] There's always gonna
be a voice for Richard Ramirez.

Nobody's ever gonna remember
my grandparents' name.

And I don't expect them to.

I don't remember the names
of victims from certain crimes.

But, hey, these people mattered.

They made a difference
in my life.

They made a difference
in a lot of people's lives.

And that's important.

[Martin] What accompanies
Richard Ramirez's

huge number of murders

is victimization
of not just those
that have lost their lives

and been assaulted...

It's those that are associated
with them.

The friends, the relatives,

they, too, are victimized.

It's very much a ripple effect.

"I'm just speaking
for all my other cousins

and my brothers and sister
because..."

[Martin] That impacts many,
many, many more people.

"...forfeited his right to live
when he killed my grandmother."

[Martin] You know,
it's been almost 40 years,
but I remember specifically

how upside down this turned
virtually everybody
in Los Angeles.

And I'm very happy
that we haven't experienced

another summer of 1985.

Hopefully none of us will.

[Carlo on tape]

[Ramirez on tape]

[Carlo on tape]

[Ramirez on tape]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Ramirez]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Ramirez]

[eerie music playing
with unsettling
choral vocalizations]

[Carlo] Right.

[Ramirez]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Carlo] Right.

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Ramirez]

[music fades]

[tape whirring]