Original subtitles

[insects and frogs chirping]

[gravel crunching underfoot]

-[woman] Ready? -[man] Ready, ready.

We're rolling. Marker.

[soft, poignant music playing]

[woman] I interview a lot of people.

I'm Vicki Liviakis at the old Oakland Civic Auditorium.

I've been a reporter, a correspondent, a host.

I've pretty much done it all as a journalist.

I have tapes that go back 30 years.

Trying to get an interview with you

is like trying to get an audience with the pope.

I'm always fascinated with characters

that are on the margins.

I heard about Doreen Lioy, and this was just curious.

It seemed that Doreen was a key player

in the world of Richard Ramirez.

[dark musical sting]

The Night Stalker may have struck again.

[reporter] The attacker is on a state-wide crime spree.

Police believe Ramirez is the Night Stalker who has terrorized California,

committing at least 16 murders there recently.

[Liviakis] I reached out to Doreen,

and after having spent countless hours on the phone,

listening to every detail

of her relationship with Richard,

Doreen called me and said,

"Richard and I are gonna tie the knot."

[grim music playing]

[Liviakis] The wedding was going to happen at San Quentin,

and I thought, "Well, this would be a good documentary."

I hired a crew.

We met with Doreen the day before the wedding,

and I asked her if she could bring her wedding dress,

and she ended up wearing her dress.

It was like any blushing bride,

you know, about to be married

to the man of her dreams.

But once I realized that I couldn't get into San Quentin

to interview Richard Ramirez,

I put the tapes away and just let 'em sit.

And I just lost track.

I didn't even know, if I found them,

what condition they'd be in.

Then it became a quest.

And then finally, there it was...

the tape.

I watched it and just was captivated,

going back in time.

It was just a chapter in all our lives,

California, Los Angeles, San Francisco,

neighborhoods, you know,

families, victims.

You know, people whose lives were changed.

Now, Doreen, it is reported,

and you've maintained that you are a virgin.

Yes.

[Liviakis] Because no one was good enough?

No, I just never found the right one.

Never found the one who made me feel that way,

to whom I would commit myself in that way.

So what happened when you met Richard Ramirez?

Oh...

I'd say magic happened.

He just... When I met him, I knew.

I knew he was the right one for me.

[ominous musical sting]

[police sirens blaring in distance]

[grim, ominous music playing]

[reporter] Richard Ramirez was brought in shackles to his trial,

finally beginning 3.5 years after his arrest.

He is accused of 43 crimes,

13 murders, many counts of robbery and rape.

Many spectators crowded around

for a glimpse of an accused serial killer.

Prosecutors will try to prove it was Ramirez

who terrorized Los Angeles in the spring of 1985.

[solemn music playing]

So...

[Eva O] Oh, this photo here? Um...

I think this is in the trial courtroom.

[clerk] The People Vs. Richard Ramirez.

[Eva O] I would watch him on the news every night,

so I asked Richard, "Can you wave to me

so I can know it's actually you who I'm writing to

and that you recognize I'm watching you?"

And he actually did that a few times.

He went and looks over, and he...

And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, he actually did it."

And he actually said that in his letters, you know?

"I'll wave to you on the camera."

[Johnston] When Richard Ramirez shows up to court the first time before the trial,

he is reserved. He puts his head down.

He doesn't wanna be involved in the limelight.

That changes.

[dark music playing]

Because one of the things that becomes apparent to Richard Ramirez

is that women are paying attention to him.

And he starts realizing

that, "Hey, this is a new source of power for me.

I mean, I've spent my life with women

really not being interested in me at all,

and now I've got a fan base.

I've got people who are hanging on my every word,

my every gesture, my every wink."

And he very quickly starts playing to the camera.

[Yochelson] The circus begins.

In true Los Angeles showbiz tradition...

Ramirez tried to make it all about him,

tried to be the celebrity.

There was this whole group of women who would come,

and they were attracted to Ramirez.

He reminds me of Mick Jagger.

It's a very lurid case.

It's got all sorts of elements

that are very appealing to the populace.

-[reporter] And to you? -Sex and violence. Yeah, to me in particular.

[reporters clamoring]

[grim, heavy music playing]

[Eva O] He's a very handsome, striking guy.

And I was really hung up on this rock star thing.

Obviously, I was trying to be a rock star.

He's got all this security around him when he goes to court.

He's in the magazines every day, newspapers every day.

The news media and all them around him,

they're using it as entertainment.

People try to act like it's not. It is.

Ramirez may have killed as many as 16 people.

That's why people watch it.

I told him, I was like, "Richard, you're like a rock star.

You should wear dark sunglasses and black suits and stuff

and just pull on that character, you know?"

He started wearing sunglasses, and he started being that persona.

[poignant instrumentals playing]

[Johnston] When you look at the attraction to Richard Ramirez,

the motives can be things

ranging from wanting to save this person...

...or having a traumatic history themselves...

to individuals who really do get off

on the violence and the blood.

And then, of course, we cannot overlook the fame angle

because it's a vicarious way to be famous themselves.

[dramatic music playing]

[Schreck] I watched Richard's metamorphosis.

He went from being Richard Ramirez the human being

to the Night Stalker, this-this supervillain.

It was the whole feeling that we're involved

in some sort of Los Angeles show business phenomenon.

It was Richard's bizarre dark celebrity.

[Carrillo] Richard, every day walked into court,

and he'd stare at the crowd that were the audience.

He'd pick one woman, "That's the good-looking one.

That's the one I want contact with."

So he'd give her a smile and he'd go sit down.

[Nelson] I was 18 years old at that time.

It was really hard to be in that courtroom and to look at him,

knowing what he had done to my grandma.

He was very arrogant, and he had groupies.

And he would pull his glasses down

and kind of check you out.

He kept turning around and looking at us,

and I didn't know if he was trying to intimidate me

or if he was trying to figure out if I was there

as maybe one of his groupies.

He was so evil.

You could feel

the evil in that room.

[somber music playing]

[Juarez] My brother and myself were living in El Paso

during the trial.

My high school friends would bring the newspaper,

and so, I've known some of the details about the crime scenes.

It was heartbreaking.

It's not right, what he did,

and he had to face those consequences of his actions.

I always wrote to my Uncle Richard.

I would get out some of the feelings I was feeling

getting mad at him

through my letters because of the situation

that he had put my immediate family in.

It broke up our family.

The hardest part of the trial

was the fact that my mom had to testify.

She had to see the pictures of her parents.

She had to describe the scene of what she found.

There were so many questions for her,

and it was tragic to watch her

and the victims go through it.

It was horrible.

[solemn piano instrumentals playing]

[Lioy on tape] Mm-hmm.

[Carlo, indistinct]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[gentle, unsettling music playing]

[Horner] Doreen put a lot into her job,

but she made a way to visit him.

I was actually shocked when I found out

that she had developed a relationship with this man.

I just couldn't believe it.

At the magazine, she didn't really want anybody

to talk to her about this.

After that, I just didn't really deal with her anymore.

And Doreen became Richard Ramirez's superfan.

She was his ride-or-die chick.

[dramatic music playing]

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[grim, ominous music playing]

[Ramirez]

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Carlo]

[Ramirez]

[Carlo]

[Ramirez]

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Carlo] Yeah. Yeah.

[grim, poignant music playing]

[reporter] For months, a jury in Los Angeles

has been hearing prosecution testimony

linking accused Night Stalker Richard Ramirez

to 13 murders in 1984 and 1985.

[reporter] Ramirez smirked, scowled, and grimaced at television cameras.

Mostly, the man accused of heinous crimes

just rocked and fidgeted.

He tried out new looks.

A business suit one day,

a rock and roll leather jacket the next.

Most often, he hid behind sunglasses,

and always his feet shackled in steel.

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[Lioy]

[solemn music playing]

[Yochelson] It was a lengthy trial.

We had so many homicide victims,

so many survivors, so many people

who were impacted by this case.

Then finally, we got the word that the jury had a verdict.

"We the jury, in the above entitled action..."

[Yochelson] In Los Angeles County,

he was convicted of 13 counts of murder.

-Guilty of murder... -[Yochelson] In addition to that,

there were 30 other felonies for which he received determinant sentences.

Guilty of rape...

Guilty as charged on all of the counts.

I truly believe justice was done for these victims.

Ramirez was never going to harm anybody again.

How do you guys feel about these verdicts?

[chatter, cheering]

"Relieved" is a good word.

I'm glad it's over.

About a week and a half later, we got the death verdicts in this very solemn moment.

The actual sentencing, the families gave victim impact statements.

[Nelson] I felt like it was so important

to be like a representative for my grandma.

[somber music playing]

It was just my own way to defy him,

to try and...

share with the court how much we were gonna miss out on

because she was taken from us.

"I'm just speaking for all my other cousins and my brothers and sister

because I don't think our lives will ever be the same."

[Zazzara] "For every person that he killed,

he has put so many others through so much pain."

"A lifetime of pain that will always be there."

"I just can't imagine how scared she must have been.

I think Richard Ramirez forfeited his right to life

when he killed my grandma."

"When he killed my stepmother and my dad

and all those other innocent people."

"And I think he should pay for what he did."

Absolutely true.

Absolutely true.

[Carlo on tape]

[both laughing]

[grim music playing]

[Schreck] When the trial was over,

he said, "Would you help me write something

that would be like a really good statement?"

It was just like at a script conference.

And we talked about that, and then he edited it.

[Schreck] It was so cynical. You know, it was not real.

It was, what would be the most dramatic way to do it?

It was like dealing with a celebrity or a performer.

[intensely grim instrumentals playing]

[Yochelson] Richard Ramirez was convicted of 13 counts of murder.

He received the death penalty.

[reporters shouting]

[Carlo] Right.

[Carlo] Right.

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[Martin] The investigative team was very much responsible

for identifying and bringing Ramirez to justice.

But I don't think there's any sentence

that could redeem or make people whole

for the crimes that Richard committed.

[Liviakis] Once Richard was sentenced in Los Angeles,

he was flown right to the heart of the city

to the San Francisco County Jail

where anybody could really access him.

[dramatic music playing]

There were many women lurking around, wanting to visit him.

He told us he got all kinds of requests from young women.

The intense interest in him as a sex symbol

went through the roof.

[Brucato] What we see is an inflation of his ego

into someone who believes that he can manipulate the public

and be attractive and powerful

because he has nothing to lose anymore.

[Liviakis] Cops call me from time to time. They have a story.

So I got a call about these women masturbating in front of the glass

at San Francisco County Jail.

And there was one inmate in particular that they were hot for...

[tense music playing]

Richard Ramirez.

[reporter] The jail's most notorious inmate

draws a steady stream of women visitors.

I wanted to see what he looked like. He's cute.

He's a nice person, 'cause I've met him and I know.

[Liviakis] These women knew that

he enjoyed maiming, raping, slaughtering

these innocent people.

He got off on it.

[music building]

[Liviakis] Maybe that is what the devil is.

He comes disguised as somebody with swagger

and sex appeal

and will demonstrate sides of himself

that show vulnerability, humor.

How can he be so masterful as to manipulate that?

He was a master at it.

And they were his slaves.

[music crescendos, fades]

[birds squawking]

[ominous music playing]

[Carlo]

[Ramirez]

[electric guitar playing]

[Eva O] I used to visit Richard in prison.

[ominous music playing]

[Eva O] I'd visit him, like, every few days

until he opened the visitations for everybody,

and I didn't want to compete with that.

It ended up like a circus. Like, I would try to visit,

and people would be waiting already to visit him.

They already got my spot.

It was like, dude, I can't.

I didn't have time to think about other girls

and if they were visiting Richard.

You know, I have a life on the outside.

[dramatic music playing]

[Liviakis] I think Richard, he was in love with her.

They were simpatico.

They were cut from the same cloth.

Don't tell Doreen that, but... you know.

Doreen was super jealous 'cause there were younger, prettier women

that were vying for his affection.

But she was determined to win,

and she made it clear that she would give it up,

all of it.

[Johnston] Doreen moves to San Francisco,

and she begins visiting him four or five times a week.

She gives up really any chance of having a normal life

and having normal relationships with other people.

[water lapping gently]

[solemn music playing]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Lioy]

[Horner] To go from being the editor of a magazine

that only covered positive stories

about young people

to being involved with somebody

that would be fodder for a crime series,

I would just hate to think that someone I knew

changed that drastically.

But I feel that for Doreen,

Richard Ramirez was the ultimate safe boyfriend.

Because there was no physical intimacy.

They were not able to have any real physical contact.

[dramatic music playing]

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Yeah.

[Liviakis] So all the hours that I spent talking with Doreen

led up to the final moment where she said,

"The prison has finally relented and I'm gonna get married."

[grim music playing]

[Johnston] There have been questions about why end up with Doreen

when he has other people he could choose from?

I don't think that Richard's attraction to Doreen

was sexual in nature.

The fact that she was a virgin,

the fact that she was so devoted to him.

She showed him. She moved for him.

She put money in his commissary account,

gave him clothes, contacted his family and helped them.

Doreen outlasted the other groupies.

And in a way, rightfully so,

because she was so devoted and loyal to him.

[dramatic music playing]

[Liviakis] So when it came time for the wedding,

Richard and Doreen were aware

that it was their time, their moment in the sun,

and they were gonna make the most of it.

Doreen and I had arranged

to do a sit-down interview the day before,

across from San Quentin in a cheap motel,

and Phil Carlo was all part of this whole deal.

Phil was very dismissive of Doreen,

but I think he also looked at her

as part of his gravy train.

[gentle, poignant music playing]

[tonal beep]

-[Liviakis] Rolling? Cool. Okay. -[man] Yeah.

[dramatic music playing]

[Liviakis] We had her in a room, and we sat down.

-So the bride is wearing white. -Right.

I'm entitled to.

I can wear it honestly.

[Liviakis] You have the wedding bands.

-[Lioy] Yes, yes. -[Liviakis] They're very simple.

Maybe describe them and what inspired you to get them.

[Lioy] Mine is just a simple 14-karat gold band,

and his is platinum, which was his request.

And considering that's his only request about the wedding,

I was only too happy to get that done for him.

And we engraved them. Whoops. [giggles]

-And what do they say? -[Lioy] His to me says,

"To my one and only love. Richard."

And mine to him says, "I love you forever. Doreen."

And we can exchange these tomorrow.

[Liviakis] So can you honestly say,

when you look deep into your heart and your soul,

that you love this man?

Oh, with all my heart.

More than anything.

-Does he love you? -Oh, he loves me.

I feel his love.

It's really the only thing I have to cling to.

And I do.

[Liviakis] Is this love?

Um, well, I...

You know, it's-it's relative in a sense, but I-I do believe

that she's totally in love with him,

smitten by him.

Does he love her?

[Liviakis] Does he love her?

I think he trusts her more than anybody in the world,

more than his own family.

He knows she would do anything for him.

If he said, "Lie down on a railroad track," she would.

And she wouldn't ask why.

And she'd keep her eyes open and watch the train coming.

[dark music playing]

[Liviakis] You touched for the first time last month.

What was that like for you?

It was amazing. Uh...

It was almost like a...

a dying person in the desert, and there was a mirage,

and I was afraid if I touched him, he would disappear.

But he didn't. He didn't disappear. It was wonderful.

We had our first embrace and, uh,

he was warm and strong and just...

i-it was wonderful.

[Johnston] Doreen is somebody who, for years,

has taken pride in saving herself for her wedding night.

And there is such irony in the fact

that there are no conjugal visits allowed

for inmates on death row.

So this is another thing

that she's willing to give up for Richard.

[Liviakis] Is your family going to be at the wedding?

-No. -They don't support you in this, do they?

Well, they're entitled to their opinion.

I don't hold it against them at all.

It's very difficult.

But I have the support of Richard's family.

They're totally supportive.

So, to me, that's a trade-off

and then a compromise.

[somber music playing]

[Horner] I know for a fact

that close friends and relatives were outraged.

Why would she be willing to forsake her family

for someone of this nature?

Only thing that I could say is

she probably felt that she could really help him.

And for her, to know that this attractive man,

regardless of having committed these horrific crimes,

he was paying a lot of attention to her,

and that could be incredible to somebody

who hadn't been in that situation before.

[Lioy] It wasn't fear. I didn't say to myself...

[Liviakis] I spent a lot of time with Doreen,

and I put the question to her directly.

I said, "So...

you're looking at this guy, and you look at Richard Ramirez,

and you see the man of your dreams."

But there are many who would look Ramirez in the eye

and say he's the face of evil.

I can't help the way the world looks at him.

They don't know him the way I do.

I see sides to him that they don't see.

[Liviakis] Do you believe he committed the crimes?

No. Not at all.

Not at all. I believe in his innocence.

[Liviakis] It would be easy to look at Doreen and say

she's gullible,

she got swept up into the serial killer frenzy.

Or you could say, as an editor,

she was part of creating that narrative

to speak in his defense

and to convince the world of his innocence.

And finally, after all these years of her hard work,

she earned the ultimate prize,

which was to be the bride of the Night Stalker.

[moody music playing]

[Liviakis] On the wedding day,

Phil Carlo was actually one of the only people

allowed in the ceremony.

He kinda wormed his way in.

[man] I think she's coming out now.

[Liviakis] He got in there. I did not.

[man] You got anything? She there?

[Liviakis] I waited outside with the rest of the reporters.

Phil described the ceremony.

Richard was wearing prison garb,

which were jeans and a dungaree shirt.

Uh, the ceremony was in a kind of cafeteria-type room.

And then the public relations guy for San Quentin

held up the picture of the happy couple.

-Can you just hold it up? -[man 1] Hold it right there.

[Carlo] Yeah.

[man 2] Did he kiss the bride?

[Carlo] They were allowed to kiss.

Just a peck. No kind of deep, soulful kiss.

And, uh, they held hands.

Uh, and then it was over.

[indistinct chatter on radio]

[Zazzara] The fact that he got married in prison,

it's a mockery to any justice that we might have.

It's just a joke.

I got a lot of calls from my cousins back East,

and they were just livid about it.

We were too. We just couldn't believe it.

[Nelson] I didn't understand why that would be allowed,

especially knowing how much I missed my grandma on the day that I got married.

And all that had been taken away from my family.

And Doreen, his wife,

I felt sorry for her.

I'll never understand it.

[grim music playing]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Certainly.

[Carlo]

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Lioy]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[soft, dramatic music playing]

So many of our decisions in relationships are guided by our emotions.

There's an extreme form of that which can be very unhealthy,

and that is when we just refuse to believe any evidence

because of what that would mean to us emotionally.

"If I've invested so much in this person,

if I've given up my entire family for this person,

I've moved for this person, I've lost so much,"

at some point, it becomes,

"I can't go back."

[solemn music playing]

[birds squawking]

[Liviakis] After the dust had settled,

the marriage, he was behind bars,

she had moved nearby the prison

so that she could visit him.

She was working at a menial kind of job.

Obviously, they couldn't cohabitate as man and wife,

but she wanted to stay as close as she could to him.

And eventually, everybody kind of forgot about Richard Ramirez.

It's part of the dusty past.

You know, another guy on death row,

rotting in prison where he belonged.

Who cares? Good riddance.

That was the attitude. And then, boom,

out of the blue comes a break in a cold case.

[suspenseful music playing]

[crewman] Thank you.

My name is Holly Pera,

and I'm a inspector and a sergeant

with the San Francisco Police Department.

In 1998,

I got to the homicide detail, and when I got there,

Joe was working in the unit as well.

[Toomey] She was the first woman

assigned to the homicide detail in San Francisco,

and I became her partner.

I don't know why. It just clicked.

[Pera] In 2009, the chief asked Joe and asked me

if we would start the cold case squad in the homicide detail...

and we did.

I remember back in 1984,

there was a particular case that just wasn't solved.

And it's a case that, you know, that kind of sticks with you

because it involved a child.

And that was one of the cases that we decided to look at.

[grim music playing]

[Toomey] On April 10th, 1984,

a nine-year-old girl,

the daughter of Chinese immigrants,

named Mei Leung,

was walking home from school

along with her younger brother.

They entered through the front of the apartment building.

[Toomey] The brother went upstairs to his mother.

Mei went downstairs into the basement.

And within a very short period of time,

she encountered a suspect...

who accosted her.

At some point, she was sexually assaulted

and strangled.

Mei's clothing was strewn about.

There was also a cloth, like a handkerchief,

that was found right by her body.

Semen was on the handkerchief. But we were limited.

This was before DNA typing became standard.

A very extensive investigation was done,

but eventually it went cold,

and they weren't able to solve the case.

[grim music playing]

[Pera] And so, in 2009,

that was one of the cases that was assigned now

to the cold case detail.

Joe and I submitted that handkerchief to the crime lab

to try to raise some sort of DNA evidence

to see if they could enter that into a database

and hopefully get a hit.

[dramatic music playing]

[Toomey] Short time later, we were out at another case,

and we got a call and were told that there was a match.

[Pera] And I thought, "Oh, wow, okay."

Positive for somebody named Richard Ramirez.

Okay, so we'll try to figure out does he have a record here in San Francisco,

or who is he?

And so Joe goes, "Richard Ramirez? The Night Stalker."

I mean, of course, it was like being hit with a lightning bolt.

Like, oh my God.

Joe and I pulled up all kinds of old articles about him,

and we picked up a book called "The Night Stalker,"

read about his cases,

and we quickly realized by looking at the dates...

that our case with Mei Leung was probably his first case.

[tense music playing]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Ramirez]

[Toomey] When they told us the inmate's name

is Richard Ramirez,

who was on death row in San Quentin,

I was a little taken back that this poor little girl

was murdered by the Night Stalker...

who, from what I knew,

he had never murdered any children.

And I didn't know much about his child molesting background.

[Carrillo] Back in 1984, 1985,

there was a series of child abductions that had gone on,

same vicinity as the murders that transpired,

at least two with Avia footprints at 'em.

There was a little six-year-old girl,

and she identified Richard Ramirez as her abductor.

And she says, "I'll go to court and testify

if it'll keep him from hurting any other little girls

like he hurt me."

[Yochelson] It was decided that it would just be better

not to prosecute those cases,

putting the children through it when we had these other crimes

that were probably going to carry the death penalty.

So the team didn't present that evidence.

[dramatic music playing]

[Toomey] After we found out it was the Night Stalker,

we got a warrant to go take a swab

from Richard Ramirez

and confirm our findings.

[Pera] He was brought to us in a cage

that was a little bit taller than his body and a little bit wider.

[indistinct chatter]

He actually looked frail to me...

and older, and not particularly healthy.

But those eyes were still the same.

They were very, very piercing.

I said a Hail Mary.

You could see evil coming out of this man.

[dramatic musical sting]

[Toomey] After taking the swab, he said,

"What's this all about, Inspector?"

And I said, "You remember the little girl on O'Farrell Street?"

And you could see in his eyes that he knew we got him.

[soft, dramatic music playing]

[Pera] There was no denial.

There's no, "It won't be my DNA swab."

None of that.

They compared it with the evidence

that was found on the handkerchief,

and it was a match.

So Richard Ramirez's first case

ended up being the last case to be solved.

And so it was kind of a satisfying feeling

to know that we kind of had these bookends.

[solemn music playing]

I'm sure there were more children molested by him that never came to light.

You know, where the child never said anything or they never identified him.

I'm positive there are.

It would be very unusual for a child molester to stop,

you know, until they're actually caught.

[grim music playing]

[Juarez] In 2009, when I heard about

the little girl that had been molested

and killed in San Francisco,

and how his DNA was connected to that murder...

Wow. Wow.

I was surprised,

because then I started looking at the dates,

and this little girl was killed

on April 10th, 1984.

Exactly three months and 18 days

after the last time he molested me.

[moody music playing]

[Juarez] I was six years old.

My brother and myself had traveled to El Paso for the summer

to visit grandparents.

That's when, uh, it started.

My mom told my Uncle Richard,

"I'm gonna jump in the shower. Can you watch the kids?"

He said yeah.

And I was laying on my tummy on the floor

watching "Sesame Street."

And then all of a sudden,

he got down on the floor next to me.

[solemn music playing]

[Juarez] He turned me around,

and he was trying to take down my...

my underwear and my shorts.

Told him no, and I was tugging at them.

And then, all of a sudden, he heard the shower go off,

and he stopped, he jumped back on the sofa,

and then I finished pulling up my...

my underwear and my shorts.

Then when he moved in with us,

it lasted as long as he lived with us.

Five years.

[ominous music playing]

[crickets chirping]

[Juarez] A lot of times, it happened during the night.

He slept in the same room with us.

And I'd just continue to pretend to be asleep.

But I never said anything.

I never said anything.

Pretending is very common in dysfunctional homes.

Pretending is something you learn to do very early on.

At that age, you think it's your fault

that these things are happening to you.

Maybe something I said to him,

maybe something I did, and so it's my fault.

So because it's my fault, I better keep it a secret.

You blame yourself as a child.

[dramatic music playing]

[indistinct police radio chatter]

Police in Los Angeles believe they have their man, Richard Ramirez.

The summer he was arrested, I had just turned 14,

and because of the media frenzy that was going on,

my aunt took us camping in New Mexico.

[mellow, solemn music playing]

[Juarez] There's a song that's an oldie that says...

* In the desert, you can't remember your name *

* Because there ain't no one to give you no pain *

["A Horse With No Name" by America playing faintly]

That was my song.

-[song fades out] -[somber music playing]

[Juarez] Because I would come to the desert,

and she let me be a kid.

She let me be a kid.

[voice breaking] Those were special times.

[grim, somber music playing]

[Juarez] Later...

I wrote to my best friend.

I told her what had happened to me with my uncle.

The letter was returned to sender,

and my mom opened it.

And she hand-carried it to my grandmother,

Richard's mother.

[soft, poignant music playing]

[Juarez] My grandmother confronted me.

"You wrote that Richie had molested you,"

and I told Grandma, "Grandma, it's true."

Then she said, "No, no. No, no.

I don't believe you. I don't believe you."

And I told her, "Okay, Grandma," and that was it.

I didn't say anything.

In 2009, when I heard

his DNA was connected to that murder...

I thought, "Now they have DNA.

Now my grandma has to believe me,

and my mom has to believe me."

But whether they believe me or not,

that's their choice.

I don't have anything else to prove.

[grim, heavy music playing]

[Carlo] Right.

[Carlo] Right. Right.

[Ramirez]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Ramirez]

[Ramirez laughs]

[Schreck] When the media gave Richard this glamorous name,

the Night Stalker, he loved it,

as one gets the impression that Jack the Ripper did in Victorian London.

The question is, why is America especially fascinated

with glamorizing murder?

This very mentally ill young man

went from being rather shy and retiring when I first met him

to having almost like a movie star aura and charisma.

He suddenly found himself kind of like a teen idol

and having all of this feminine attention.

Richard was given a second life

by becoming this celebrity, the Night Stalker.

But I think he always had a death wish.

[tense, unsettling music playing]

[Ramirez] Yeah.

[dark, somber music playing]

[Liviakis] For years, I wondered

where was Doreen and what became of her.

[Lioy speaks indistinctly]

[Liviakis] The only time I saw Doreen after her wedding day

was years later.

She was working at a party supply store,

and I ran into her quite by accident.

I was getting some party supplies for kids,

and she was behind the register.

I recognized her instantly.

And she averted her eyes and put her head down,

and her body language messaged that,

"Please, do not acknowledge me in any way."

[Lioy] ...crimes.

And I looked at his face, and I...

I don't know what it was, but there was something in his eyes

that just-- it captivated me.

[Liviakis] I heard she just kinda went underground,

just sort of doesn't wanna be...

seen.

I can't understand what happened,

but I believe that there was a breaking point,

and she finally cut the cord with Richard

when faced with the evidence

of the murder of a nine-year-old little girl.

I think the DNA evidence

was in her face,

and she couldn't rationalize it anymore.

I didn't hear her say that, but I believe she couldn't negotiate around that.

[dramatic music playing]

[Schreck] He committed these atrocious crimes

which he described with relish and abandon and-and pride.

But the child molesting,

I think that he must have had some shame about.

He never mentioned the child molestation.

He never mentioned the raping and killing of little girls,

and I definitely would have had a different feeling about him

had I known.

[Brucato] I would like to think that Ramirez

was ashamed of having committed child abuse,

but I think he was more ashamed

that there was no strength or power needed to take those victims.

This is a person who would have been very aware of his image,

and I think he would fear that he was seen as deeply pathetic

and not to mention vulnerable.

Even in prison, they don't respect you for having done that

because it's such a pathetic, cowardly thing to do.

[Eva O] I look back at it and think about it myself. I think,

"Why would you talk to somebody like that?

Why would you put somebody like that in your life?"

I was a different person back then.

I got really extreme about people that I got obsessed with.

It turns twisted, you know, at that point.

It's a twisted thing, and...

I don't call that love.

I-I-- It's a mental illness. [laughs]

With Richard, I was angry at the world,

and he saw how angry I was at everything.

So I felt like I could open up to him about that.

[chickens clucking and squawking]

[Eva O] I don't hate the world anymore.

And I'm trying to clean my brain out.

I know I can't erase what's in there,

but I wanna not add more to it.

[gentle music playing]

[Juarez] When he was in prison, all through the years,

I always wrote to him.

I was still pretending that he never molested me.

Until...

I confronted him in my letters.

In my letters, I started talking to him

about those times that I was pretending to be asleep.

And then he apologized to me.

That meant a lot to me, to have it in black and white.

He says, "Yes, sweetie, I know you were pretending to be asleep.

I don't know what to say.

Anyway, sorry about those times.

Even though we had bad times,

I loved you then, and I love you now."

[whimpers softly] That's what he said.

It's a hard thing to love those that don't deserve to be loved.

Part of my healing is learning to forgive him,

but when I forgive him,

it doesn't mean that I condone what he did.

Today...

today I'm doing good.

I'm-I'm doing really good.

All the trauma that I went through...

now, with those experiences,

every single day, I get to walk into a prison

where I teach men

that are getting ready to be released into society,

and I get to show these men that there is a way out.

I get to step into the devil's pit and pull them out.

[traffic humming]

[car horn honking]

[dramatic music playing]

[Carrillo] June 7th, 2013.

I'm at my grandson's--

he's graduated from junior high into high school.

And when it was over, I looked at my phone.

I had to have at least 40 messages on there.

[anchor] Richard Ramirez, the serial killer

known as the Night Stalker, is dead.

The California Department of Corrections said

Ramirez died of natural causes today in a hospital

after spending more than two decades on death row.

[Juarez] He died of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.

No one in the family knew that he had this.

He hadn't informed any family member.

When he died, Doreen and my Uncle Richard were going through a divorce,

and being that the divorce had not been finalized,

the ashes went to her.

She was supposed to bring the ashes to El Paso

to be scattered on the mountain, but that never happened.

Later on, we found out that there was a box

that used to have his ashes

on display in a museum in Las Vegas.

[playing melancholy music on piano]

To this day, women who are attracted to him contact me

just to glean a little bit of connection to their hero.

[grim music playing]

I try to disenchant them and tell them, you know,

"He would've raped you. He would've cut your throat.

He would've taken your eyes out."

I try to warn them, "Do not romanticize Richard Ramirez."

[melancholy piano music continues]

[soft, poignant music playing]

There's an amazing aspect to the story

in my family and how they've survived.

They've learned to forgive,

and they're still teaching that to me

all these years later.

[Zazzara] My dad was a hero.

I was thinking about the good times we had.

I was thankful for what I did have.

Because, honestly, a lot of people don't have that.

I was lucky.

I am.

[Sandoval] There's always gonna be a voice for Richard Ramirez.

Nobody's ever gonna remember my grandparents' name.

And I don't expect them to.

I don't remember the names of victims from certain crimes.

But, hey, these people mattered.

They made a difference in my life.

They made a difference in a lot of people's lives.

And that's important.

[Martin] What accompanies Richard Ramirez's

huge number of murders

is victimization of not just those that have lost their lives

and been assaulted...

It's those that are associated with them.

The friends, the relatives,

they, too, are victimized.

It's very much a ripple effect.

"I'm just speaking for all my other cousins

and my brothers and sister because..."

[Martin] That impacts many, many, many more people.

"...forfeited his right to live when he killed my grandmother."

[Martin] You know, it's been almost 40 years, but I remember specifically

how upside down this turned virtually everybody in Los Angeles.

And I'm very happy that we haven't experienced

another summer of 1985.

Hopefully none of us will.

[Carlo on tape]

[Ramirez on tape]

[Carlo on tape]

[Ramirez on tape]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Ramirez]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Ramirez]

[eerie music playing with unsettling choral vocalizations]

[Carlo] Right.

[Ramirez]

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Carlo] Right.

[Carlo] Mm-hmm.

[Ramirez]

[music fades]

[tape whirring]