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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:15,969 --> 00:00:20,969 Subtitles by explosiveskull 2 00:00:23,856 --> 00:00:28,560 [clock ticking] 3 00:00:30,829 --> 00:00:31,564 [typing] 4 00:00:34,365 --> 00:00:37,467 [man] We are going through the most profound change 5 00:00:37,469 --> 00:00:41,240 in communication technologies in all of human history right now. 6 00:00:43,209 --> 00:00:45,641 [chattering] 7 00:00:45,643 --> 00:00:50,346 Printing press, radio, telegraph, television. All very important. 8 00:00:50,348 --> 00:00:54,217 But I believe we're going through the most transformative, 9 00:00:54,219 --> 00:00:57,488 purely on the basis of three technologies. 10 00:00:57,490 --> 00:01:00,527 Mobile, social media and cloud computing. 11 00:01:07,700 --> 00:01:10,434 They share one very important characteristic. 12 00:01:10,436 --> 00:01:14,237 And that's the amount of private information. 13 00:01:14,239 --> 00:01:17,773 Information that used to be in our desktops or filing cabinets, 14 00:01:17,775 --> 00:01:19,442 even in our heads, 15 00:01:19,444 --> 00:01:22,379 that we now entrust to third parties. 16 00:01:22,381 --> 00:01:24,748 [whirring] 17 00:01:24,750 --> 00:01:28,552 Data that we are conscious of, and deliberate about, 18 00:01:28,554 --> 00:01:31,621 like the e-mails we send and the tweets we post. 19 00:01:31,623 --> 00:01:34,323 But it also includes a lot of information 20 00:01:34,325 --> 00:01:37,296 that we're completely, or mostly, unconscious about. 21 00:01:38,496 --> 00:01:40,531 So if you take my mobile phone, 22 00:01:40,533 --> 00:01:43,866 even when I'm not using it, it's emitting a pulse, 23 00:01:43,868 --> 00:01:47,704 trying to locate the nearest Wi-Fi router or cell phone exchange, 24 00:01:47,706 --> 00:01:50,576 and within that beacon is the make and model of the phone, 25 00:01:51,576 --> 00:01:53,377 the fact that it's my phone, 26 00:01:53,379 --> 00:01:56,413 because my name is attached to the operating system, 27 00:01:56,415 --> 00:01:59,383 and most importantly, the geolocation of the phone. 28 00:01:59,385 --> 00:02:02,485 [drone humming] 29 00:02:02,487 --> 00:02:04,323 [man speaking Portuguese] 30 00:02:09,828 --> 00:02:12,762 [Deibert continues] We are leaving this digital exhaust 31 00:02:12,764 --> 00:02:17,733 that contains extraordinarily precise information about our lives, 32 00:02:17,735 --> 00:02:22,371 our social relationships reduced to trillions of data points 33 00:02:22,373 --> 00:02:27,244 that form now this new ethereal layer around the planet 34 00:02:27,246 --> 00:02:29,745 that's only growing in all directions. 35 00:02:29,747 --> 00:02:34,618 [ticking] 36 00:02:34,620 --> 00:02:38,354 Capabilities are being put in the hands of policy makers, 37 00:02:38,356 --> 00:02:41,959 five years ago, they'd never imagine that they would have. 38 00:02:41,961 --> 00:02:45,798 This is where big data meets Big Brother. 39 00:02:46,731 --> 00:02:50,235 [ticking] 40 00:02:56,407 --> 00:03:00,679 [buzzing] 41 00:03:04,650 --> 00:03:07,284 - [folk music] - [chuckles] 42 00:03:07,286 --> 00:03:08,288 [man with accent] Should be here. 43 00:03:10,489 --> 00:03:12,489 [American man] It is kind of in a rock, I think. 44 00:03:12,491 --> 00:03:14,458 [American man #2] Yeah, the entrance is in a rock. 45 00:03:14,460 --> 00:03:16,459 - [speaking over each other] - Or a bunker. 46 00:03:16,461 --> 00:03:18,463 Oh, yeah, the bunker. It is down there! 47 00:03:21,699 --> 00:03:23,466 [driver] There is a bunker under here. 48 00:03:23,468 --> 00:03:26,870 - [man] Yeah. - It is between 33 and 39. 49 00:03:26,872 --> 00:03:28,304 [Deibert] Right there. Look at that door. 50 00:03:28,306 --> 00:03:29,538 - [driver] Yeah. - [Deibert] Yeah, this is it. 51 00:03:29,540 --> 00:03:31,477 - Bahnhof. - [driver] Okay. 52 00:03:42,020 --> 00:03:43,455 [beeps] 53 00:03:53,799 --> 00:03:55,701 - [door squeaks] - Hey, I guess we just go in. 54 00:04:00,673 --> 00:04:04,509 [electronica music] 55 00:04:15,854 --> 00:04:19,459 [servers whirring] 56 00:04:21,326 --> 00:04:24,463 [electronica continues] 57 00:04:30,702 --> 00:04:32,771 [loud whirring] 58 00:04:55,560 --> 00:05:00,062 Many people believe that you have this cloud services that are floating around. 59 00:05:00,064 --> 00:05:02,466 People think, "Okay, it's a cloud server." 60 00:05:02,468 --> 00:05:05,935 But this is the actual physical location of the Internet. 61 00:05:05,937 --> 00:05:08,841 [whirring, clicking] 62 00:05:14,379 --> 00:05:17,714 [Karlung continues] It's a constant struggle to protect data. 63 00:05:17,716 --> 00:05:22,118 [voices echo] 64 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,589 The Swedish Security Police wanted to install tools 65 00:05:26,591 --> 00:05:31,863 to automatically log in to our data and get out the information. 66 00:05:32,964 --> 00:05:35,065 So I invited them to our facility, 67 00:05:35,067 --> 00:05:37,466 and then I had a microphone 68 00:05:37,468 --> 00:05:42,675 which I was provided by the Swedish Public Service, national radio. 69 00:05:46,612 --> 00:05:51,516 [speaking Swedish] 70 00:05:57,055 --> 00:06:00,423 I taped this conversation, and they were so angry. 71 00:06:00,425 --> 00:06:03,459 And they also wanted us to sign a paper 72 00:06:03,461 --> 00:06:06,863 where they said that we could not say anything about it. 73 00:06:06,865 --> 00:06:08,798 It should be total secrecy. 74 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:13,202 They said, "If a terrorist attack happens, it's your fault." 75 00:06:13,204 --> 00:06:14,704 [click, buzz] 76 00:06:14,706 --> 00:06:20,580 [man speaks Swedish] 77 00:06:28,052 --> 00:06:30,553 [Karlung] It's, like, a creepy feeling. 78 00:06:30,555 --> 00:06:34,057 Nobody can say that any facility is safe. 79 00:06:34,059 --> 00:06:38,998 There are always possibilities to go in and find data and take it out. 80 00:06:42,634 --> 00:06:46,101 People say that, "Oh, I don't have anything to hide. 81 00:06:46,103 --> 00:06:47,937 They can read my mail. I don't have anything." 82 00:06:47,939 --> 00:06:51,041 But it's not that which is this problem. 83 00:06:51,043 --> 00:06:55,611 The problem is, without secrecy, there can be no democracy. 84 00:06:55,613 --> 00:06:58,483 Without secrecy, there can be no market economy. 85 00:06:59,117 --> 00:07:00,750 Right. 86 00:07:00,752 --> 00:07:03,586 There is an obvious candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize. 87 00:07:03,588 --> 00:07:05,956 - Really? - And that is Edward Snowden. 88 00:07:05,958 --> 00:07:07,493 I mean, yeah. 89 00:07:21,273 --> 00:07:28,043 Does the public enjoy the same right to privacy that we have in the past? 90 00:07:28,045 --> 00:07:30,846 Are we still private citizens, 91 00:07:30,848 --> 00:07:34,584 and then public officials, where the government knows very little about us, 92 00:07:34,586 --> 00:07:35,985 but we know everything about them? 93 00:07:35,987 --> 00:07:39,055 Why are we, the public, becoming disempowered 94 00:07:39,057 --> 00:07:41,892 at the same time that governments around the world, 95 00:07:41,894 --> 00:07:47,130 corporations around the world, institutions around the world, 96 00:07:47,132 --> 00:07:52,067 are gaining greater and greater leverage over the range of our activities, 97 00:07:52,069 --> 00:07:54,206 their knowledge of what we do? 98 00:08:07,952 --> 00:08:10,120 [Deibert] The Citizen Lab is an unusual place. 99 00:08:10,122 --> 00:08:13,255 [cell phones ringing] 100 00:08:13,257 --> 00:08:16,561 We're a research unit at the University of Toronto. 101 00:08:18,697 --> 00:08:22,231 We combine the skills of engineers, computer scientists 102 00:08:22,233 --> 00:08:24,034 with social scientists. 103 00:08:24,036 --> 00:08:26,769 We collaborate with people from all over the world 104 00:08:26,771 --> 00:08:28,971 to do the field research that we do. 105 00:08:28,973 --> 00:08:32,342 And we do this to advance research on global security, 106 00:08:32,344 --> 00:08:34,280 cyberspace and human rights. 107 00:08:37,149 --> 00:08:39,081 The world is a very dangerous place 108 00:08:39,083 --> 00:08:42,319 as we saw recently in... in tragic incidents in Paris, 109 00:08:42,321 --> 00:08:47,123 and you want to have security agencies be well adept at discerning 110 00:08:47,125 --> 00:08:49,658 what those threats are over our horizon. 111 00:08:49,660 --> 00:08:54,964 But is it okay that the government sets up a giant digital X-ray machine 112 00:08:54,966 --> 00:08:56,833 over everything that we do? 113 00:08:56,835 --> 00:08:59,035 Because that's effectively where we're headed right now. 114 00:08:59,037 --> 00:09:00,306 [typing] 115 00:09:02,374 --> 00:09:05,709 [continues] We've been a kind of digital early warning system, 116 00:09:05,711 --> 00:09:07,844 scanning the horizon. 117 00:09:07,846 --> 00:09:10,814 And what we've seen, frankly, has been really disturbing. 118 00:09:10,816 --> 00:09:12,985 [digital chirping] 119 00:09:14,653 --> 00:09:16,122 [typing] 120 00:09:22,995 --> 00:09:25,965 [praying, chanting] 121 00:09:30,802 --> 00:09:32,672 [chanting in Tibetan] 122 00:09:36,741 --> 00:09:39,711 [man, in Tibetan] 123 00:10:00,899 --> 00:10:03,302 [chimes playing] 124 00:10:15,113 --> 00:10:18,851 [Golog, in Tibetan] 125 00:11:23,215 --> 00:11:28,086 [vibrates] 126 00:11:40,499 --> 00:11:44,934 - [shouts] - [blows landing] 127 00:11:44,936 --> 00:11:47,105 [Golog] 128 00:11:51,909 --> 00:11:54,413 - [shouting in Tibetan] - [blows landing] 129 00:11:59,551 --> 00:12:02,488 [beating continues] 130 00:12:04,489 --> 00:12:06,425 [stops] 131 00:12:12,530 --> 00:12:19,437 [Golog] 132 00:12:23,542 --> 00:12:27,446 [vehicle horns honking] 133 00:12:33,485 --> 00:12:37,320 [woman, in English] Tibetans are watched from every angle and from every corner. 134 00:12:37,322 --> 00:12:41,156 It's in their homes, it's in their offices, it's in the streets. 135 00:12:41,158 --> 00:12:43,126 In Tibet, certainly in central Tibet 136 00:12:43,128 --> 00:12:45,527 and around the capital city of Lhasa, 137 00:12:45,529 --> 00:12:49,132 Chinese authorities, together with Chinese corporations, 138 00:12:49,134 --> 00:12:51,300 telecommunications companies, 139 00:12:51,302 --> 00:12:56,071 they've integrated the ability to spy on people via their mobile phone, 140 00:12:56,073 --> 00:12:59,074 via the last communications they may have had over the Internet. 141 00:12:59,076 --> 00:13:02,280 Down to the closed circuit television camera on the streets. 142 00:13:03,948 --> 00:13:07,050 The Chinese so strictly control access to Tibet, 143 00:13:07,052 --> 00:13:09,017 it's just like a black hole 144 00:13:09,019 --> 00:13:12,254 for media, for independent observers, 145 00:13:12,256 --> 00:13:13,992 for international agencies, for anything. 146 00:13:20,498 --> 00:13:23,035 [Golog, in Tibetan] 147 00:13:40,652 --> 00:13:42,855 [woman speaks in Tibetan] 148 00:13:44,188 --> 00:13:49,025 [Golog] How I escaped is a secret. 149 00:13:49,027 --> 00:13:50,996 [light music] 150 00:14:07,645 --> 00:14:10,246 [Tethong] People are incredibly courageous. 151 00:14:10,248 --> 00:14:13,449 People inside Tibet will send out news and information. 152 00:14:13,451 --> 00:14:16,455 And they'll say, "I want this story to be told." 153 00:14:17,554 --> 00:14:19,055 They could be imprisoned. 154 00:14:19,057 --> 00:14:20,422 They could be tortured. 155 00:14:20,424 --> 00:14:22,124 Their family could pay the price. 156 00:14:22,126 --> 00:14:23,392 [music continues] 157 00:14:23,394 --> 00:14:25,527 We on the outside have to decide 158 00:14:25,529 --> 00:14:31,199 how to walk this very, sort of, fine line between protecting people's security 159 00:14:31,201 --> 00:14:34,970 and honoring their wishes about getting news and information out. 160 00:14:34,972 --> 00:14:39,374 And we know for a fact, thanks to Citizen Lab's report, 161 00:14:39,376 --> 00:14:42,478 that we are being successfully targeted. 162 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,479 [music stops] 163 00:14:44,481 --> 00:14:49,118 A new report has been released from a group of digital detectives. 164 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,089 From their computers in Toronto, they've tracked a high-tech spy ring 165 00:14:53,091 --> 00:14:54,360 that reaches around the world. 166 00:14:55,192 --> 00:14:57,328 [typewriter clicks] 167 00:14:59,096 --> 00:15:00,262 [reporter] For the past ten months, 168 00:15:00,264 --> 00:15:03,532 these computer experts have been working as cyber sleuths 169 00:15:03,534 --> 00:15:06,969 hot on the trail of a massive electronic spy network. 170 00:15:06,971 --> 00:15:11,273 They say it has taken control of nearly 1,300 high-level computers 171 00:15:11,275 --> 00:15:13,443 in more than 100 countries. 172 00:15:13,445 --> 00:15:17,079 A discovery that could have major political implications. 173 00:15:17,081 --> 00:15:19,581 They can extract any document they wanted. 174 00:15:19,583 --> 00:15:23,552 They could turn on web cameras, turn on audio devices, 175 00:15:23,554 --> 00:15:25,588 so that they could, in effect, use the computers 176 00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:27,623 as a listening device in the offices. 177 00:15:27,625 --> 00:15:30,359 [reporter] The web of intrigue started with the Dalai Lama 178 00:15:30,361 --> 00:15:32,163 who thought his computer had been hacked. 179 00:15:36,368 --> 00:15:41,170 Up until about 2007 or 2008, I'd never really heard of malware. 180 00:15:41,172 --> 00:15:43,506 You know, I'd heard of viruses, obviously, 181 00:15:43,508 --> 00:15:46,475 but I hadn't really heard about targeted malware attacks 182 00:15:46,477 --> 00:15:48,176 affecting the human rights community. 183 00:15:48,178 --> 00:15:49,380 [clicking] 184 00:15:53,551 --> 00:15:57,052 First time I heard about it was in the context of the Tibetans. 185 00:15:57,054 --> 00:16:01,523 Gradually we started piecing together, they are under surveillance. 186 00:16:01,525 --> 00:16:05,661 The surveillance comes from groups within China. 187 00:16:05,663 --> 00:16:10,733 They're using malicious software and socially-engineered e-mails. 188 00:16:10,735 --> 00:16:13,435 E-mails that are crafted to get them to open it up 189 00:16:13,437 --> 00:16:15,274 to get inside their devices. 190 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,741 [reporter] Nart Villeneuve, a computer wiz, 191 00:16:18,743 --> 00:16:21,109 figured out how the operation worked 192 00:16:21,111 --> 00:16:23,813 by getting the attackers to hack into his computer. 193 00:16:23,815 --> 00:16:25,580 We're monitoring these groups 194 00:16:25,582 --> 00:16:27,717 for long periods of time, 195 00:16:27,719 --> 00:16:30,652 and you're essentially waiting for them to screw up, right? 196 00:16:30,654 --> 00:16:32,722 And when they do, you take advantage of that. 197 00:16:32,724 --> 00:16:34,824 Sometimes it takes a long time. 198 00:16:34,826 --> 00:16:38,060 You could be monitoring a group for a year and get nothing. 199 00:16:38,062 --> 00:16:42,531 Then one day, they just use a server that they don't lock down 200 00:16:42,533 --> 00:16:44,302 and all the data's just sitting there. 201 00:16:46,236 --> 00:16:48,706 I was at home. It was pretty late. 202 00:16:49,474 --> 00:16:51,410 [typing] 203 00:17:20,238 --> 00:17:21,636 [Deibert] Nart was scouring through it, 204 00:17:21,638 --> 00:17:24,440 trying to figure out what actor is responsible 205 00:17:24,442 --> 00:17:26,642 for getting inside the Dalai Lama's office. 206 00:17:26,644 --> 00:17:30,712 And there was a 22 or 24 character string that kept coming up 207 00:17:30,714 --> 00:17:33,449 that he couldn't figure out, "What is the meaning of this?" 208 00:17:33,451 --> 00:17:37,719 So on a whim, he just copied and pasted it into Google. 209 00:17:37,721 --> 00:17:41,093 One website came up, and it was Chinese characters. 210 00:17:44,662 --> 00:17:46,295 So he clicked on it. 211 00:17:46,297 --> 00:17:47,298 [mouse clicks] 212 00:17:48,732 --> 00:17:52,634 To my surprise, what came back was the actual page 213 00:17:52,636 --> 00:17:56,905 that the attackers used to interface with the compromised systems. 214 00:17:56,907 --> 00:18:00,910 So they set up a website where they could monitor their victims. 215 00:18:00,912 --> 00:18:03,179 But they didn't password protect it! 216 00:18:03,181 --> 00:18:06,117 So it was like a window into everything they were doing. 217 00:18:07,484 --> 00:18:10,121 [electronic music] 218 00:18:16,693 --> 00:18:20,162 [Nart] This wasn't just targeted at Tibetan organizations 219 00:18:20,164 --> 00:18:22,398 or human rights organizations. 220 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,469 This was global, a pretty wide range of institutions 221 00:18:26,471 --> 00:18:29,438 that showed that these attackers were... were quite busy. 222 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,844 There was huge pickup in the media. It was all over the world. 223 00:18:38,482 --> 00:18:42,287 And it put us on a different kind of footing in terms of our credibility. 224 00:18:45,557 --> 00:18:49,458 In the cyber security community, we were novices at that time. 225 00:18:49,460 --> 00:18:50,429 We were kind of outsiders. 226 00:18:51,563 --> 00:18:52,929 [no audible dialogue] 227 00:18:52,931 --> 00:18:55,864 So we were kind of calling it on the fly. 228 00:18:55,866 --> 00:18:57,799 Like, what do we do? What's the right thing to do? 229 00:18:57,801 --> 00:18:59,367 Who do we notify? 230 00:18:59,369 --> 00:19:01,804 I knew that publishing it was important. 231 00:19:01,806 --> 00:19:04,440 We had to redact a lot of the information to protect people. 232 00:19:04,442 --> 00:19:06,776 Should we notify the government? 233 00:19:06,778 --> 00:19:08,710 Should we notify the Canadian government? 234 00:19:08,712 --> 00:19:12,715 How do we notify other governments that are being victimized? 235 00:19:12,717 --> 00:19:14,482 At the time, you know, 236 00:19:14,484 --> 00:19:17,353 we didn't want to completely disclose everything that we had done, 237 00:19:17,355 --> 00:19:19,322 because we wanted to do it again. 238 00:19:19,324 --> 00:19:22,725 [Deibert] In some of the communities I mentioned, they loved it. 239 00:19:22,727 --> 00:19:26,228 But I got the feeling from, certainly inside my own government, 240 00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:27,863 there was a lot of weirdness. 241 00:19:27,865 --> 00:19:31,366 - [interviewer] Are we allowed to speculate? - Well, I think now we know 242 00:19:31,368 --> 00:19:35,938 because there's a Snowden disclosure that explicitly references the fact 243 00:19:35,940 --> 00:19:38,540 that the Canadians and the Americans, 244 00:19:38,542 --> 00:19:40,575 our signals intelligence agencies, 245 00:19:40,577 --> 00:19:43,613 were piggybacking off the GhostNet network. 246 00:19:43,615 --> 00:19:47,352 So, in publishing the report, we basically broke up their party. 247 00:19:55,692 --> 00:19:59,362 From our initial samples from the office of the Dalai Lama, 248 00:19:59,364 --> 00:20:02,297 they were actually compromised by two distinct groups. 249 00:20:02,299 --> 00:20:05,433 The GhostNet group obviously got the most attention. 250 00:20:05,435 --> 00:20:08,336 But there was another group that was also active. 251 00:20:08,338 --> 00:20:10,739 The GhostNet group shut down their operations, 252 00:20:10,741 --> 00:20:14,709 but the other group, um, they're still going. 253 00:20:14,711 --> 00:20:16,815 [birds tweeting] 254 00:20:23,020 --> 00:20:27,489 [Tibetan horns] 255 00:20:27,491 --> 00:20:30,729 [chattering] 256 00:20:51,015 --> 00:20:52,417 [horns continue] 257 00:20:55,553 --> 00:20:58,690 [gong rings] 258 00:21:04,328 --> 00:21:08,666 [chanting in Tibetan through megaphone] 259 00:21:26,517 --> 00:21:28,487 [woman speaking Tibetan] 260 00:21:29,854 --> 00:21:35,460 [Golog, in Tibetan] 261 00:21:58,415 --> 00:22:01,650 In our research, what we see are acts of war 262 00:22:01,652 --> 00:22:04,920 that take place against citizens, 263 00:22:04,922 --> 00:22:06,921 using these very technologies. 264 00:22:06,923 --> 00:22:09,959 Getting inside the computers of Tibetans and then arresting them, 265 00:22:09,961 --> 00:22:13,929 and possibly executing them, is a kind of act of war. 266 00:22:13,931 --> 00:22:15,998 [speaking Tibetan] 267 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,901 [Deibert] We see this sort of thing every week, right? 268 00:22:18,903 --> 00:22:21,373 Minor to major versions of it. 269 00:22:23,875 --> 00:22:27,876 Everything on the site is correct except this. 270 00:22:27,878 --> 00:22:31,913 So this... The last log-in on the C panel was from Korea. 271 00:22:31,915 --> 00:22:34,417 - Mm-hmm. - Do you guys have any work in Korea? 272 00:22:34,419 --> 00:22:36,151 - Is there any... - No, no... 273 00:22:36,153 --> 00:22:39,121 So who actually accesses the website to update it and all that sort of thing? 274 00:22:39,123 --> 00:22:41,526 - It must be somebody unauthorized. - Yeah. 275 00:22:48,132 --> 00:22:51,870 [bell ringing] 276 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,811 [ringing rapidly] 277 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,846 [stops] 278 00:23:04,848 --> 00:23:10,888 [chanting] 279 00:23:24,101 --> 00:23:27,806 [man, in Tibetan] 280 00:23:55,967 --> 00:23:58,737 [in English] One, two, three, 281 00:23:59,737 --> 00:24:04,576 four, five, six, 282 00:24:05,242 --> 00:24:07,008 seven. 283 00:24:07,010 --> 00:24:13,884 [in Tibetan] 284 00:25:03,733 --> 00:25:09,640 [Tibetan horn] 285 00:25:15,112 --> 00:25:19,183 [horn continues] 286 00:25:34,731 --> 00:25:39,237 [horn resumes] 287 00:25:48,980 --> 00:25:51,913 [man continues, in Tibetan] 288 00:25:51,915 --> 00:25:53,716 [screaming] 289 00:25:53,718 --> 00:25:55,887 - [shout] - [gunshot] 290 00:26:01,291 --> 00:26:03,294 [screaming continues] 291 00:26:13,104 --> 00:26:15,105 [man shouts] 292 00:26:20,877 --> 00:26:22,947 [screaming continues] 293 00:26:25,782 --> 00:26:27,315 [stops] 294 00:26:27,317 --> 00:26:29,153 - [indistinct] - Hmm. 295 00:26:51,075 --> 00:26:53,878 [typing] 296 00:27:17,167 --> 00:27:20,304 [talking, quiet] 297 00:27:32,115 --> 00:27:35,450 Not that long ago, the government of Pakistan put out this tender 298 00:27:35,452 --> 00:27:39,988 for proposals for a nationwide Internet filtering system. 299 00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:43,225 They wanted to solicit proposals from companies to build, 300 00:27:43,227 --> 00:27:46,096 effectively, the Great Firewall of Pakistan. 301 00:27:52,236 --> 00:27:55,903 Today if you visit Pakistan and you get online 302 00:27:55,905 --> 00:27:59,711 and you try to access YouTube, this is what you'll see, 303 00:28:00,744 --> 00:28:01,979 a blocked page like this. 304 00:28:06,951 --> 00:28:09,086 I'm in Islamabad, putting in a SIM card. 305 00:28:13,223 --> 00:28:16,091 First and foremost, I'm really excited to see Shahzad. 306 00:28:16,093 --> 00:28:20,394 I first met Shahzad and the organization Bytes for All, 307 00:28:20,396 --> 00:28:21,796 eight years ago, I think? 308 00:28:21,798 --> 00:28:24,499 And he's been involved, in one way or another, 309 00:28:24,501 --> 00:28:26,370 in Citizen Lab research ever since. 310 00:28:28,305 --> 00:28:30,108 [mouse clicks] 311 00:28:36,247 --> 00:28:39,515 [chattering] 312 00:28:39,517 --> 00:28:42,721 - Hi, Shahzad. - Hello! 313 00:28:44,188 --> 00:28:47,922 - So great to see you. - Here we are. Here we are. 314 00:28:47,924 --> 00:28:49,857 [both chuckling] 315 00:28:49,859 --> 00:28:52,059 [Deibert] Bytes for All does what they do, 316 00:28:52,061 --> 00:28:56,265 fight for Internet rights and advocacy-based approach to Internet freedom 317 00:28:56,267 --> 00:28:58,901 under extreme duress. 318 00:28:58,903 --> 00:29:01,370 So they're operating in a country that, 319 00:29:01,372 --> 00:29:04,238 specifically around media and free expression, 320 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,440 has got to be one of the worst places in the world. 321 00:29:06,442 --> 00:29:10,112 Uh, journalists are routinely kidnapped, murdered, 322 00:29:10,114 --> 00:29:12,948 uh, offices firebombed, et cetera, 323 00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:15,120 and they've experienced all of that. 324 00:29:16,487 --> 00:29:19,888 Death threats, staff members kidnapped, 325 00:29:19,890 --> 00:29:23,892 his own son beat up and thrown to the side of the road 326 00:29:23,894 --> 00:29:26,964 as a warning to Shahzad not to do what he's doing. 327 00:29:31,035 --> 00:29:33,367 In my opinion, 328 00:29:33,369 --> 00:29:37,775 Internet has opened up so many opportunities... 329 00:29:38,909 --> 00:29:40,508 for the people to express, 330 00:29:40,510 --> 00:29:44,947 and that is the sole reason that we are fighting for open Internet. 331 00:29:44,949 --> 00:29:48,482 They lost their public spaces. 332 00:29:48,484 --> 00:29:52,321 They lost their ability to go out freely. 333 00:29:52,323 --> 00:29:56,290 So, as they are putting controls and curbs on physical spaces, 334 00:29:56,292 --> 00:30:00,295 they are doing exactly the same in online spaces as well. 335 00:30:00,297 --> 00:30:04,232 So precisely the reason we are standing out there to reclaim those spaces. 336 00:30:04,234 --> 00:30:05,933 And we have to at some point, 337 00:30:05,935 --> 00:30:07,504 and we'll continue to do that. 338 00:30:08,939 --> 00:30:11,472 Oh, my God. [sighs] 339 00:30:11,474 --> 00:30:15,110 The government has the ability to ban specific pages. 340 00:30:15,112 --> 00:30:17,179 [speaking foreign language] 341 00:30:17,181 --> 00:30:19,448 [in English] You ban all of Facebook, businesses are suffering, 342 00:30:19,450 --> 00:30:20,548 people communicate. 343 00:30:20,550 --> 00:30:23,384 I mean, you can laugh and joke and say, 344 00:30:23,386 --> 00:30:26,153 "For a few days people won't play FarmVille," but it's not about that. 345 00:30:26,155 --> 00:30:29,490 It's about your fundamental rights being snatched from you 346 00:30:29,492 --> 00:30:33,061 and no government, in my opinion, should have the ability to do that. 347 00:30:33,063 --> 00:30:34,462 [woman] Right. 348 00:30:34,464 --> 00:30:37,599 Not only that, they banned Wikipedia for a little while. 349 00:30:37,601 --> 00:30:39,167 - Yes, mm-hmm. - YouTube. 350 00:30:39,169 --> 00:30:42,470 Uh, about several thousand websites were affected. 351 00:30:42,472 --> 00:30:46,107 I think the Internet is this vast, unregulated, 352 00:30:46,109 --> 00:30:48,610 wonderful, democratizing space 353 00:30:48,612 --> 00:30:51,380 and no matter what anyone does, people will find a way. 354 00:30:51,382 --> 00:30:54,048 [sitar music] 355 00:30:54,050 --> 00:30:56,253 [typing] 356 00:30:57,488 --> 00:31:01,392 [music continues] 357 00:31:43,534 --> 00:31:46,701 Hi, I'm Sabeen Mahmud, and I'm the director of Peace Nation, 358 00:31:46,703 --> 00:31:48,737 a nonprofit organization. 359 00:31:48,739 --> 00:31:51,739 I've always believed that technology is always the driver of change, 360 00:31:51,741 --> 00:31:55,009 not business, not governments, but technology. 361 00:31:55,011 --> 00:32:00,082 And gender-based violence has always existed 362 00:32:00,084 --> 00:32:03,584 but with the advent of the Internet and the number of social networking tools, 363 00:32:03,586 --> 00:32:06,555 I think it's a great mobilization platform. 364 00:32:06,557 --> 00:32:07,655 [mouse clicks] 365 00:32:07,657 --> 00:32:10,060 [sitar music] 366 00:32:25,709 --> 00:32:28,477 [anchor] Sabeen Mahmud was leaving a Karachi restaurant 367 00:32:28,479 --> 00:32:31,212 when the gunman attacked her in her car. 368 00:32:31,214 --> 00:32:34,382 Her mother who was also accompanying her was wounded 369 00:32:34,384 --> 00:32:36,551 and now is in a critical condition. 370 00:32:36,553 --> 00:32:40,055 Mahmud was taken to a hospital where she was pronounced dead. 371 00:32:40,057 --> 00:32:41,259 [sitar music continues] 372 00:32:52,135 --> 00:32:56,404 [inaudible] 373 00:32:56,406 --> 00:33:01,543 When she spoke in physical spaces, nothing happened. 374 00:33:01,545 --> 00:33:05,313 When she was carrying on her campaign, she was not targeted. 375 00:33:05,315 --> 00:33:07,382 People were amused or they ignored her, 376 00:33:07,384 --> 00:33:09,584 or they just walked past. 377 00:33:09,586 --> 00:33:14,088 But when this whole, sort of, campaign 378 00:33:14,090 --> 00:33:16,357 hit the Internet and the social media, 379 00:33:16,359 --> 00:33:18,526 that's when the lynch mobs gathered. 380 00:33:18,528 --> 00:33:21,196 And one of the reasons I find is, 381 00:33:21,198 --> 00:33:27,235 that speech in a physical space lasts only as long as you're speaking. 382 00:33:27,237 --> 00:33:33,574 But once it is uploaded onto the Internet on any platform, it is there forever. 383 00:33:33,576 --> 00:33:38,212 And then your attackers or, you know, whoever opposes you, 384 00:33:38,214 --> 00:33:40,449 they gather, and then they spread it further 385 00:33:40,451 --> 00:33:43,785 and more and more people join that group 386 00:33:43,787 --> 00:33:47,424 of people who are attacking and it takes on a life of its own. 387 00:33:56,567 --> 00:33:58,669 [chattering] 388 00:34:07,376 --> 00:34:10,244 [Deibert] We're going through a demographic revolution. 389 00:34:10,246 --> 00:34:15,182 The center of gravity of cyberspace is shifting right before our eyes. 390 00:34:15,184 --> 00:34:18,552 From the north and the west of the planet, where it was invented, 391 00:34:18,554 --> 00:34:21,188 to the South and the East. 392 00:34:21,190 --> 00:34:25,360 The vast majority of Internet users today and into the future 393 00:34:25,362 --> 00:34:27,394 are coming from the developing world, 394 00:34:27,396 --> 00:34:30,699 for whom these technologies are empowering. 395 00:34:30,701 --> 00:34:35,737 What should we expect then from these next billion digital users 396 00:34:35,739 --> 00:34:38,539 as they come online in the post-Snowden era? 397 00:34:38,541 --> 00:34:42,346 [inaudible] 398 00:34:47,284 --> 00:34:52,420 - [cheering] - [horns blowing] 399 00:34:52,422 --> 00:34:53,854 [siren wails] 400 00:34:53,856 --> 00:34:56,825 [shouting in Portuguese] 401 00:34:56,827 --> 00:35:00,231 [screaming] 402 00:35:01,864 --> 00:35:06,200 [cheering] 403 00:35:06,202 --> 00:35:10,240 [man on PA] 404 00:35:12,509 --> 00:35:15,610 [shouting in Portuguese] 405 00:35:15,612 --> 00:35:18,115 [in Portuguese] 406 00:35:54,585 --> 00:35:59,523 [shouting] 407 00:36:24,380 --> 00:36:30,654 [in Portuguese] 408 00:36:42,599 --> 00:36:46,403 [speaking Portuguese] 409 00:36:47,704 --> 00:36:50,371 [in English] Once we started with Midia Ninja, 410 00:36:50,373 --> 00:36:54,309 and we went to the streets and tried to do live streaming. 411 00:36:54,311 --> 00:36:58,012 There was a mobile station with an electric generator 412 00:36:58,014 --> 00:37:00,481 using gasoline, you know, 413 00:37:00,483 --> 00:37:05,487 a 4G modem, a laptop, a camera, a video switcher and... 414 00:37:05,489 --> 00:37:10,594 - [imitating vibrating machine] - [synthesized music] 415 00:37:14,463 --> 00:37:18,369 [in Portuguese] 416 00:37:26,576 --> 00:37:29,311 [Silva] It was good in the first two or three times 417 00:37:29,313 --> 00:37:31,646 in more calm demonstrations. 418 00:37:31,648 --> 00:37:34,048 I remember there was a discussion, and then Carioca said, 419 00:37:34,050 --> 00:37:37,786 "No, I found an app. 420 00:37:37,788 --> 00:37:40,688 Its name is TwitCasting and maybe we can try it." 421 00:37:40,690 --> 00:37:42,891 [electropop] 422 00:37:42,893 --> 00:37:48,565 It was a Japanese free app used by teenagers to hang out, you know. 423 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,636 [in Portuguese] 424 00:38:00,010 --> 00:38:02,413 - [chanting] - [speaks Portuguese] 425 00:38:15,492 --> 00:38:19,827 - [singing in Portuguese] - [indistinct] 426 00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:23,731 Looking at Brazil, this is one of those cases where you have 427 00:38:23,733 --> 00:38:25,900 a sporting event, in this case, 428 00:38:25,902 --> 00:38:31,005 which triggers all sorts of extra concern around security 429 00:38:31,007 --> 00:38:34,376 and the control of information, much of it legitimate. 430 00:38:34,378 --> 00:38:39,046 But what often happens is that the layering of surveillance, 431 00:38:39,048 --> 00:38:42,450 extra-legal measures that happens leading up to 432 00:38:42,452 --> 00:38:45,619 and during these events doesn't just disappear. 433 00:38:45,621 --> 00:38:47,988 It becomes part of the permanent architecture. 434 00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:51,329 [chanting in Portuguese] 435 00:38:57,434 --> 00:38:59,003 [in Portuguese] 436 00:39:11,748 --> 00:39:16,117 [chanting in Portuguese] 437 00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:19,554 [Deibert] Mobile phones are prevalent. Everyone has one in their hands. 438 00:39:19,556 --> 00:39:22,724 And the police now use a technique 439 00:39:22,726 --> 00:39:27,662 where they set up fake cell phone towers that captures everyone within the vicinity 440 00:39:27,664 --> 00:39:31,800 and gathers up identifying information that's emitted by the cell phones, 441 00:39:31,802 --> 00:39:33,901 which they then use to track people 442 00:39:33,903 --> 00:39:36,170 and associate them with each other 443 00:39:36,172 --> 00:39:39,740 and being at specific physical events like a protest 444 00:39:39,742 --> 00:39:42,142 and the government can go back in time 445 00:39:42,144 --> 00:39:47,081 and re-create every facet of your life on that particular day and hour. 446 00:39:47,083 --> 00:39:49,516 With whom you were communicating. 447 00:39:49,518 --> 00:39:52,454 Not only what you're broadcasting but what you're saying privately 448 00:39:52,456 --> 00:39:55,059 and use this to incriminate you down the road. 449 00:39:59,128 --> 00:40:02,565 [in Portuguese] 450 00:40:26,188 --> 00:40:31,594 [in Portuguese] 451 00:40:58,655 --> 00:41:01,892 [in Portuguese] 452 00:41:10,567 --> 00:41:13,603 [in Portuguese] 453 00:41:18,541 --> 00:41:21,141 People realize there's some hidden mechanism of power 454 00:41:21,143 --> 00:41:23,778 going on through surveillance. 455 00:41:23,780 --> 00:41:27,615 And you begin to suspect, maybe, this device you can't trust. 456 00:41:27,617 --> 00:41:30,784 Maybe the state's in here or it's in my mobile phone or... 457 00:41:30,786 --> 00:41:33,253 And as that kind of seeps out there, 458 00:41:33,255 --> 00:41:36,891 people become much more unwilling to take risks. 459 00:41:36,893 --> 00:41:37,992 You know, even in our own work, 460 00:41:37,994 --> 00:41:41,329 we're much more cautious about what we say over e-mail, 461 00:41:41,331 --> 00:41:43,764 worried that somebody's listening and so on. 462 00:41:43,766 --> 00:41:47,334 It's like sand in the machinery. It kind of slows things down 463 00:41:47,336 --> 00:41:50,637 and everything becomes much more complicated, 464 00:41:50,639 --> 00:41:53,273 just to communicate basic instructions. 465 00:41:53,275 --> 00:41:55,712 You're like, "Oh, first I have to encrypt it." 466 00:41:57,313 --> 00:42:00,748 All these technologies too, cryptography things, 467 00:42:00,750 --> 00:42:02,684 they might be getting cheap, 468 00:42:02,686 --> 00:42:07,822 but if we consider in terms of time, they are expensive. 469 00:42:07,824 --> 00:42:11,325 You know, people are being murdered every day in the favelas. 470 00:42:11,327 --> 00:42:14,362 The military police are still running. 471 00:42:14,364 --> 00:42:17,898 So it's complicated now to stop the machines 472 00:42:17,900 --> 00:42:21,070 and adapt our system to a more safe mode. 473 00:42:25,375 --> 00:42:30,246 [crowd booing] 474 00:42:33,650 --> 00:42:37,253 [in Portuguese] 475 00:42:54,637 --> 00:43:00,577 [Bentes, in Portuguese] 476 00:43:16,992 --> 00:43:21,362 ? Oh, my, oh I'll go for what you know ? 477 00:43:21,364 --> 00:43:26,767 ? Who I owe Why own when you can just ? 478 00:43:26,769 --> 00:43:27,704 ? Sell it ? 479 00:43:35,945 --> 00:43:37,981 [in Portuguese] 480 00:44:14,117 --> 00:44:17,251 [man] ? Those gloves Just take 'em off ? 481 00:44:17,253 --> 00:44:18,889 ? Move before The city moves to us ? 482 00:44:25,427 --> 00:44:27,163 ? To us, to us ? 483 00:44:30,132 --> 00:44:32,867 [explosion] 484 00:44:32,869 --> 00:44:37,871 - [horns playing] - [helicopter flying over] 485 00:44:37,873 --> 00:44:41,911 [shouting] 486 00:44:43,847 --> 00:44:48,118 [shouting in Portuguese, indistinct] 487 00:46:38,260 --> 00:46:40,994 [crowd applauding] 488 00:46:40,996 --> 00:46:43,898 [Deibert] So at the same time that you have so many people 489 00:46:43,900 --> 00:46:48,369 able to communicate to a global audience at an instant, 490 00:46:48,371 --> 00:46:53,074 governments, in ways that they weren't 20 years ago, 491 00:46:53,076 --> 00:46:58,246 are really ramping up information controls because they see... 492 00:46:58,248 --> 00:47:01,148 And when we say "governments," we're really talking about entrenched powers, 493 00:47:01,150 --> 00:47:06,153 institutionalized, uh, you know, forms of capitalism in the state 494 00:47:06,155 --> 00:47:09,123 that see, you know, 495 00:47:09,125 --> 00:47:13,494 this type of unpredictable citizen activism as a threat to their interests 496 00:47:13,496 --> 00:47:15,932 and are developing ways to counter it. 497 00:47:18,300 --> 00:47:20,369 [announcer] You have new challenges today. 498 00:47:22,204 --> 00:47:25,942 Sensitive data is transmitted over encrypted channels. 499 00:47:26,976 --> 00:47:29,577 You need more. 500 00:47:29,579 --> 00:47:32,382 You want to look through your target's eyes. 501 00:47:34,650 --> 00:47:36,619 You have to hack your target. 502 00:47:42,592 --> 00:47:47,030 You have to overcome encryption and capture relevant data. 503 00:47:48,630 --> 00:47:51,467 Being stealth and untraceable. 504 00:47:54,938 --> 00:47:56,940 Exactly what we do. 505 00:48:02,311 --> 00:48:07,148 The vendors of these products and services market them to governments, 506 00:48:07,150 --> 00:48:09,083 usually at trade shows 507 00:48:09,085 --> 00:48:13,153 that are only open to accredited law enforcement and intelligence agencies. 508 00:48:13,155 --> 00:48:16,691 Actually, I've got a big binder that I can... 509 00:48:16,693 --> 00:48:19,526 So, if you ignore the bag, actually which... 510 00:48:19,528 --> 00:48:21,061 [chuckling] 511 00:48:21,063 --> 00:48:25,231 someone, uh, deposited these in as a gift to me, 512 00:48:25,233 --> 00:48:29,202 but I think was hoping to disguise it in the kindergarten bag. 513 00:48:29,204 --> 00:48:35,108 These are brochures from the type of trade shows that we're talking about, 514 00:48:35,110 --> 00:48:39,280 products and services that allow cell phone detection, 515 00:48:39,282 --> 00:48:41,550 uh, insertion of malware... 516 00:48:43,753 --> 00:48:47,021 tracking, social media monitoring. 517 00:48:47,023 --> 00:48:50,023 In many ways, the way to think about this market 518 00:48:50,025 --> 00:48:53,526 is that it's the commercialization of cyber crime. 519 00:48:53,528 --> 00:48:57,430 You trick somebody into installing a software program 520 00:48:57,432 --> 00:48:59,532 that contains malicious code 521 00:48:59,534 --> 00:49:02,168 that exploits some vulnerability in the system, 522 00:49:02,170 --> 00:49:06,206 which then allows the attacker to do anything they want. 523 00:49:06,208 --> 00:49:09,577 Turn on the webcam, listen in on the microphone, 524 00:49:09,579 --> 00:49:13,780 record keystrokes, record the location, the movement. 525 00:49:13,782 --> 00:49:16,383 It operates without much accountability, 526 00:49:16,385 --> 00:49:20,021 certainly no corporate social responsibility, 527 00:49:20,023 --> 00:49:23,124 ripe for abuse in a place like Sudan or Ethiopia. 528 00:49:23,126 --> 00:49:25,525 We've seen in one case after another, 529 00:49:25,527 --> 00:49:28,628 how this ends up being used to target civil society. 530 00:49:28,630 --> 00:49:29,632 Aha. 531 00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:32,800 Gamma Group. 532 00:49:32,802 --> 00:49:35,769 Maker of the notorious FinFisher spyware. 533 00:49:35,771 --> 00:49:37,606 [cars honking] 534 00:52:18,668 --> 00:52:23,570 The attacker has to socially engineer or convince the target 535 00:52:23,572 --> 00:52:28,409 to open a file or to, you know, click through some security warning, 536 00:52:28,411 --> 00:52:30,811 um, in order to become infected. 537 00:52:30,813 --> 00:52:36,217 We had found a document that had pictures of Ethiopian opposition leaders in it, 538 00:52:36,219 --> 00:52:38,619 and it looked like it was targeted and designed to appeal 539 00:52:38,621 --> 00:52:40,920 to members of the Ethiopian diaspora. 540 00:52:40,922 --> 00:52:43,757 Uh, but in fact, the file was cleverly disguised 541 00:52:43,759 --> 00:52:46,526 to look like a document that's actually a computer program, 542 00:52:46,528 --> 00:52:48,262 an executable file. 543 00:52:48,264 --> 00:52:50,496 So when you run this, it will install software on your computer 544 00:52:50,498 --> 00:52:53,233 even though, you know, they changed the icon and everything 545 00:52:53,235 --> 00:52:56,369 to make it look like this is a document or a picture. 546 00:52:56,371 --> 00:52:57,540 This is actually a program. 547 00:53:31,773 --> 00:53:34,941 I was able to look at the memory of an infected computer. 548 00:53:34,943 --> 00:53:37,878 In other words, what's going on inside the computer when it's infected. 549 00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:42,316 And I was able to identify several interesting artifacts in the memory, 550 00:53:42,318 --> 00:53:45,519 including a bunch of strings that said "FinFisher," "FinSpy," 551 00:53:45,521 --> 00:53:47,824 very clearly attributing this to the company. 552 00:54:23,793 --> 00:54:27,728 You don't have to be the NSA to get inside somebody's computer. 553 00:54:27,730 --> 00:54:31,065 Um, instead you can exploit their curiosity, 554 00:54:31,067 --> 00:54:34,934 their, um, need to communicate. 555 00:54:34,936 --> 00:54:38,572 And of course, journalists, at the very heart of what they do, 556 00:54:38,574 --> 00:54:42,543 is engage in communication with a lot of people 557 00:54:42,545 --> 00:54:45,445 and a lot of people that they don't know and trust necessarily. 558 00:54:45,447 --> 00:54:48,816 Because they're engaged in outreach and communicating constantly with sources. 559 00:54:48,818 --> 00:54:50,987 [crowd shouting] 560 00:54:57,492 --> 00:54:59,795 [cheering, whistling] 561 00:55:02,398 --> 00:55:06,133 Fifty years ago, nobody would have known what happened in Syria. 562 00:55:06,135 --> 00:55:10,436 But in 2011, when it started, everybody had Facebook. 563 00:55:10,438 --> 00:55:15,978 Everybody has e-mails and everybody has WhatsApp and Viber. 564 00:55:17,413 --> 00:55:19,380 So you just can't stop people 565 00:55:19,382 --> 00:55:22,048 from telling what is happening to them. 566 00:55:22,050 --> 00:55:25,052 So when they besieged Daraa at the beginning, 567 00:55:25,054 --> 00:55:29,789 they shut down communication, Internet, land lines and even electricity. 568 00:55:29,791 --> 00:55:34,026 But they did not know that in the 21st century, people have their ways. 569 00:55:34,028 --> 00:55:37,164 People were charging their mobiles from their cars or generators, 570 00:55:37,166 --> 00:55:40,767 hand generators, um, manual generators. 571 00:55:40,769 --> 00:55:44,737 And people were using satellite connections. 572 00:55:44,739 --> 00:55:49,543 You don't need to use the country, uh, Internet to be connected to the Internet. 573 00:55:49,545 --> 00:55:50,943 You can use anything. 574 00:55:50,945 --> 00:55:54,981 And they were able to tell what was happening to them. 575 00:55:54,983 --> 00:56:00,720 Um, so the story got around. 576 00:56:00,722 --> 00:56:02,789 [man speaking foreign language] 577 00:56:02,791 --> 00:56:04,860 [sirens blaring] 578 00:56:09,063 --> 00:56:12,965 A few years ago many of us celebrated the Arab Spring 579 00:56:12,967 --> 00:56:16,103 as the paradigm of what these technologies could do. 580 00:56:16,105 --> 00:56:19,472 Remember we called it at the time "liberation technologies." 581 00:56:19,474 --> 00:56:21,641 They would bring about the end of authoritarian rule. 582 00:56:21,643 --> 00:56:23,545 [man speaking Arabic] 583 00:56:29,518 --> 00:56:35,222 Unfortunately, Syria has become the Arab Spring's dark aftermath. 584 00:56:35,224 --> 00:56:36,623 [explosion] 585 00:56:36,625 --> 00:56:40,496 [boy shouting in Arabic] 586 00:56:42,465 --> 00:56:45,699 As groups sympathetic to the Assad regime 587 00:56:45,701 --> 00:56:50,003 have employed off-the-shelf malware crime kits to infiltrate social networks, 588 00:56:50,005 --> 00:56:53,539 arrest, torture and murder opposition groups 589 00:56:53,541 --> 00:56:55,511 and even target their air strikes. 590 00:57:03,117 --> 00:57:04,052 [rifles cocking] 591 00:57:09,891 --> 00:57:10,793 [shouting] 592 00:57:19,635 --> 00:57:20,937 [gunshot] 593 00:57:24,639 --> 00:57:28,275 [man] From the beginning, we believed that the camera is the most powerful weapon, 594 00:57:28,277 --> 00:57:30,811 and it was actually the only weapon we have 595 00:57:30,813 --> 00:57:32,782 to deliver our own message to the whole world. 596 00:57:40,822 --> 00:57:42,655 This is interesting. 597 00:57:42,657 --> 00:57:44,258 Baraa? 598 00:57:44,260 --> 00:57:45,595 [speaking Arabic] 599 00:57:48,931 --> 00:57:53,833 It's a pleasure for me to introduce one of my best friends, 600 00:57:53,835 --> 00:57:59,273 Mr. Baraa, he's one of the most activist people inside Syria. 601 00:57:59,275 --> 00:58:02,642 He came a few days ago 'cause he has... 602 00:58:02,644 --> 00:58:07,981 He has... many broken bones on his body. 603 00:58:07,983 --> 00:58:10,550 [gunfire] 604 00:58:10,552 --> 00:58:13,655 He was there and covered the battle in Daraa City. 605 00:58:17,059 --> 00:58:20,059 And in the afternoon, they get a tank shell. 606 00:58:20,061 --> 00:58:21,264 [explosion] 607 00:58:22,931 --> 00:58:26,635 He was with his friend, whom has this camera. 608 00:58:28,036 --> 00:58:30,170 And that good guy, you know, he gets killed 609 00:58:30,172 --> 00:58:33,706 by one tank shell from the regime's side. 610 00:58:33,708 --> 00:58:34,911 [gunfire] 611 00:58:36,644 --> 00:58:38,244 This video, you will see now, 612 00:58:38,246 --> 00:58:42,751 a remote control car and it exploded, a huge explosion. 613 00:58:44,286 --> 00:58:45,954 It was filmed by this camera. 614 00:58:48,023 --> 00:58:49,025 [explosion] 615 00:58:50,726 --> 00:58:51,791 After that, 616 00:58:51,793 --> 00:58:53,994 the rocket launchers 617 00:58:53,996 --> 00:58:55,965 started to hit the place from the regime's side. 618 00:58:57,199 --> 00:59:01,001 So our activist, this media guy, 619 00:59:01,003 --> 00:59:04,304 he gets killed in here in this exact... this place. 620 00:59:04,306 --> 00:59:07,139 Now here. He was standing here. 621 00:59:07,141 --> 00:59:10,010 And people found the camera with him. 622 00:59:10,012 --> 00:59:12,615 We took out the memory card, and we post this... 623 00:59:13,815 --> 00:59:16,218 as, you know, in memory of Hussain. 624 00:59:19,989 --> 00:59:22,625 [wreckage clattering] 625 00:59:31,666 --> 00:59:35,769 So now, Mr. Baraa here, just a few days just to heal. 626 00:59:35,771 --> 00:59:40,173 He paid a visit to some hospitals to check out himself, 627 00:59:40,175 --> 00:59:44,013 then he will go back into Syria to keep working. 628 00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:48,648 There is a war on Facebook. 629 00:59:48,650 --> 00:59:53,787 Uh, every side is using Facebook to promote themselves. 630 00:59:53,789 --> 00:59:57,093 [in Arabic] 631 01:00:05,668 --> 01:00:08,901 The other way around, the regime will say, 632 01:00:08,903 --> 01:00:12,838 "We will occupy this area. We will take over this area." 633 01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:15,941 Then the FSA would leave because they're afraid of bombardment. 634 01:00:15,943 --> 01:00:16,980 It's just a game. 635 01:00:18,047 --> 01:00:19,248 Facebook is a game. 636 01:00:28,757 --> 01:00:30,092 [Wjd] It was just a silly joke I made. 637 01:00:31,427 --> 01:00:35,195 I didn't hurt anybody. I didn't insult anyone. 638 01:00:35,197 --> 01:00:39,231 It was not political. It was not racist. 639 01:00:39,233 --> 01:00:42,168 There is nothing that they could hold against me 640 01:00:42,170 --> 01:00:44,106 with a thing that I wrote on Facebook. 641 01:00:46,108 --> 01:00:49,879 But still, at a time of war... 642 01:00:52,047 --> 01:00:53,115 people get crazy. 643 01:01:01,724 --> 01:01:06,092 They did not drag me in the street or kidnap me. 644 01:01:06,094 --> 01:01:09,262 They just asked me to come to ask me a few questions. 645 01:01:09,264 --> 01:01:12,164 This is what they said, so I signed the paper that I'm coming. 646 01:01:12,166 --> 01:01:18,273 I went the next morning at 11:30, to the detention center. 647 01:01:19,942 --> 01:01:22,008 The security guy came to me. 648 01:01:22,010 --> 01:01:25,445 He's like... He's like half of my height. 649 01:01:25,447 --> 01:01:27,847 He blindfolded me, and I was like, 650 01:01:27,849 --> 01:01:31,184 I was okay with that because I thought, it's some... 651 01:01:31,186 --> 01:01:37,023 it's confidential secrets of the country that they don't want me to see. 652 01:01:37,025 --> 01:01:41,764 And then I was presented to the detective or the interrogator. 653 01:01:42,431 --> 01:01:43,432 I never saw him. 654 01:01:46,434 --> 01:01:50,970 He told me, "You're a computer engineer. Please be seated." 655 01:01:50,972 --> 01:01:55,775 And I sat next to him and he started reading all my Facebook posts. 656 01:01:55,777 --> 01:01:56,812 I was like, "Oh." 657 01:02:08,489 --> 01:02:10,891 One of the posts that I wrote was, 658 01:02:10,893 --> 01:02:13,959 "No praying, no fasting until the regime falls," 659 01:02:13,961 --> 01:02:15,764 which was actually making fun of both sides. 660 01:02:16,498 --> 01:02:18,063 And I laughed and he's like, 661 01:02:18,065 --> 01:02:20,869 "I'm not kidding with you. I'm not joking with you." 662 01:02:24,172 --> 01:02:26,438 He kicked me on my chest 663 01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:31,577 and then he requested the same short guy, 664 01:02:31,579 --> 01:02:33,512 because he was there in the room, 665 01:02:33,514 --> 01:02:35,514 to bring something called the "flying carpet," 666 01:02:35,516 --> 01:02:37,284 which is a torturing machine. 667 01:02:37,286 --> 01:02:42,054 It's a wooden board, like the door, 668 01:02:42,056 --> 01:02:45,127 but it has joints in the middle that can flip. 669 01:02:46,027 --> 01:02:50,162 And I had to lay on it. 670 01:02:50,164 --> 01:02:54,501 They tied my wrists and they tied me from the middle, they tied my legs. 671 01:02:54,503 --> 01:02:59,305 And they just closed it so my knees touched my chest. 672 01:02:59,307 --> 01:03:01,608 He took off my shoes and my socks 673 01:03:01,610 --> 01:03:07,250 and started beating me with a metal, uh, with a metal whip. 674 01:03:09,885 --> 01:03:13,856 The pain is unbelievable. 675 01:03:14,889 --> 01:03:16,356 You just can't take it anymore. 676 01:03:16,358 --> 01:03:20,363 You just can't endure this amount of agony. 677 01:03:28,971 --> 01:03:32,304 What we saw in Syria was a lot of use of, say, 678 01:03:32,306 --> 01:03:34,541 off-the-shelf remote access tools. 679 01:03:34,543 --> 01:03:38,211 So this is sort of software that you can get from underground message boards 680 01:03:38,213 --> 01:03:40,579 or maybe purchase for not so much money. 681 01:03:40,581 --> 01:03:44,617 Maybe $200-300 that give you the ability 682 01:03:44,619 --> 01:03:47,554 to record someone's keystrokes, read their e-mails, 683 01:03:47,556 --> 01:03:50,956 even look at them through their webcam. 684 01:03:50,958 --> 01:03:53,392 Record via the computer's microphone, 685 01:03:53,394 --> 01:03:56,231 conversations that are being had around the target's computer. 686 01:03:57,465 --> 01:03:59,999 Frequently what you would see 687 01:04:00,001 --> 01:04:02,668 is it would be bundled with some type of lured document 688 01:04:02,670 --> 01:04:07,072 which showed a deep understanding 689 01:04:07,074 --> 01:04:09,943 of the psychology of the people they were trying to target. 690 01:04:09,945 --> 01:04:14,680 For instance, one of the documents that was sent out that I keenly recall 691 01:04:14,682 --> 01:04:17,182 was a list. 692 01:04:17,184 --> 01:04:23,188 A purported list of insurgents identified by the Syrian government. 693 01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:28,193 So of course what happened was that this was promptly passed around 694 01:04:28,195 --> 01:04:31,298 to all sorts of very interesting groups in Syria 695 01:04:31,300 --> 01:04:34,300 because everyone wanted to know if they were on this list or not. 696 01:04:34,302 --> 01:04:40,106 So the actual spyware payload itself wasn't particularly sophisticated, 697 01:04:40,108 --> 01:04:43,175 but the social... 698 01:04:43,177 --> 01:04:46,479 the social and social engineering side of that operation, 699 01:04:46,481 --> 01:04:48,551 um, was quite smart. 700 01:04:55,023 --> 01:04:58,494 Internet entered almost all countries in the region 701 01:04:59,527 --> 01:05:01,029 before it entered Syria. 702 01:05:02,230 --> 01:05:03,229 Yes. 703 01:05:03,231 --> 01:05:05,565 Government in Syria, 704 01:05:05,567 --> 01:05:08,068 we are not as developed as Canada, for example, 705 01:05:08,070 --> 01:05:10,103 or not as developed as United States. 706 01:05:10,105 --> 01:05:13,206 In Canada they can monitor people and control people 707 01:05:13,208 --> 01:05:16,075 and spy people in a very intelligent way. 708 01:05:16,077 --> 01:05:18,514 And even they don't feel that they are... 709 01:05:21,382 --> 01:05:22,715 spied on. 710 01:05:22,717 --> 01:05:27,556 But in Syria, of course you go to old ways. 711 01:05:34,329 --> 01:05:37,229 They untie me and then I was... 712 01:05:37,231 --> 01:05:39,999 and then he asked me to sit next to him, and he said, 713 01:05:40,001 --> 01:05:41,003 "Let's start talking." 714 01:05:42,704 --> 01:05:46,271 And I told him, "I don't want to talk to you anymore." 715 01:05:46,273 --> 01:05:52,612 He said, "I want you to admit you work with the Free Syrian Electronic Army." 716 01:05:52,614 --> 01:05:55,248 I was like, "I don't know what that is." 717 01:05:55,250 --> 01:05:58,554 He said, "You like their page. You like their page on Facebook." 718 01:06:00,021 --> 01:06:02,021 I told him, "I like their page on Facebook, 719 01:06:02,023 --> 01:06:05,124 but there are too many pages on Facebook that you can like. 720 01:06:05,126 --> 01:06:07,563 I also like Assad's page on Facebook." 721 01:06:09,231 --> 01:06:11,664 Well, that did not convince him. 722 01:06:11,666 --> 01:06:16,802 So his boss came and he told him, "What is going on?" 723 01:06:16,804 --> 01:06:21,307 He told him, "This is the Facebook guy, and he's not cooperating." 724 01:06:21,309 --> 01:06:25,612 So then his boss told him to, "Send him down to the basement, 725 01:06:25,614 --> 01:06:29,615 peel his skin off and just remind me of him after a month." 726 01:06:29,617 --> 01:06:32,284 And I was like, "Can we go back to the flying carpet?" 727 01:06:32,286 --> 01:06:32,987 [chuckles] 728 01:06:35,623 --> 01:06:37,523 I stayed there for almost a month, 729 01:06:37,525 --> 01:06:41,096 and then I was released with a presidential amnesty. 730 01:06:43,197 --> 01:06:46,099 So I went in a taxi, 731 01:06:46,101 --> 01:06:50,235 covered with dust, dirt, shit and blood, 732 01:06:50,237 --> 01:06:53,639 all over my face, my clothes. 733 01:06:53,641 --> 01:06:57,776 And then the taxi driver felt pity for me, and he gave me a cigarette. 734 01:06:57,778 --> 01:07:00,048 I remember that was the first time I cried. 735 01:07:03,184 --> 01:07:07,287 And I went to my flat in Latakia where I used to study, 736 01:07:07,289 --> 01:07:09,158 and my roommates were shocked to see me alive. 737 01:07:10,791 --> 01:07:14,764 And then, like, two weeks after that I fled the country. 738 01:07:16,197 --> 01:07:17,697 I came to Jordan. 739 01:07:17,699 --> 01:07:18,768 I am a journalist now. 740 01:07:32,246 --> 01:07:35,782 [man] With Syria, a lot of the bad things that are happening 741 01:07:35,784 --> 01:07:39,151 are happening to people who don't look like Westerners. 742 01:07:39,153 --> 01:07:42,722 The bad things happening to these people through technology, 743 01:07:42,724 --> 01:07:46,191 through the risks inherent in technology, 744 01:07:46,193 --> 01:07:49,295 are not different than the kinds of risks that we may face, 745 01:07:49,297 --> 01:07:51,530 um, although they look different. 746 01:07:51,532 --> 01:07:52,831 We see in the news almost every day, 747 01:07:52,833 --> 01:07:56,568 a report of a breach, some kind of a large hack. 748 01:07:56,570 --> 01:07:58,905 Data being exploited somewhere. 749 01:07:58,907 --> 01:08:01,773 It's the same problem, but in Syria, it looks very different 750 01:08:01,775 --> 01:08:04,510 and because there are dark-skinned people, 751 01:08:04,512 --> 01:08:07,246 uh, and there are guns and a foreign language, 752 01:08:07,248 --> 01:08:10,249 it feels, I think to many, exotic and different, 753 01:08:10,251 --> 01:08:11,717 and it couldn't happen here. 754 01:08:11,719 --> 01:08:14,354 And I think, in fact, what you're seeing in Syria 755 01:08:14,356 --> 01:08:17,357 is this is what happens when the risks get higher 756 01:08:17,359 --> 01:08:18,828 but the technology is the same. 757 01:08:20,328 --> 01:08:21,664 They're using the same Facebook that we are. 758 01:08:23,698 --> 01:08:25,167 [chattering] 759 01:08:31,506 --> 01:08:33,906 [in Portuguese] 760 01:08:33,908 --> 01:08:37,846 [man beatboxing] 761 01:09:20,588 --> 01:09:23,658 [chattering] 762 01:09:27,295 --> 01:09:29,394 [Teles, in Portuguese] 763 01:09:29,396 --> 01:09:30,798 [woman shouting in Portuguese] 764 01:09:35,970 --> 01:09:37,939 [singing in foreign language] 765 01:09:40,975 --> 01:09:43,478 [shouting on microphone] 766 01:09:47,448 --> 01:09:49,585 [man shouting in Portuguese] 767 01:09:53,854 --> 01:09:56,391 [in Portuguese] 768 01:10:15,476 --> 01:10:16,945 [upbeat intro] 769 01:10:17,912 --> 01:10:19,445 ? Satisfied ? 770 01:10:19,447 --> 01:10:21,313 ? Satisfied ? 771 01:10:21,315 --> 01:10:22,818 ? Satisfied ? 772 01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:27,689 [gunshot] 773 01:10:28,890 --> 01:10:30,656 [man singing] 774 01:10:30,658 --> 01:10:32,293 [glass shattering] 775 01:10:35,596 --> 01:10:37,565 [all shouting] 776 01:10:40,969 --> 01:10:42,605 [screaming] 777 01:10:45,539 --> 01:10:47,576 [sirens chirping] 778 01:10:54,548 --> 01:10:59,454 [Teles, in Portuguese] 779 01:11:08,529 --> 01:11:11,397 [woman speaking Portuguese] What is this? This is surreal. 780 01:11:11,399 --> 01:11:13,335 [singing continues] 781 01:11:14,034 --> 01:11:17,370 [clapping rhythmically] 782 01:11:17,372 --> 01:11:20,342 [singing continues, indistinct] 783 01:11:23,978 --> 01:11:29,518 ? Satisfied ? 784 01:11:30,385 --> 01:11:31,686 [shouting] 785 01:11:33,587 --> 01:11:34,756 [shouting in Portuguese] 786 01:11:39,493 --> 01:11:41,663 - [shouting] - [shutters clicking] 787 01:11:53,574 --> 01:11:54,906 [news intro] 788 01:11:54,908 --> 01:11:57,045 [in Portuguese] 789 01:12:01,149 --> 01:12:03,719 [man, in Portuguese] 790 01:12:18,699 --> 01:12:20,435 - [police officer] - [reporter] 791 01:12:23,438 --> 01:12:25,474 [shouting] 792 01:12:41,488 --> 01:12:42,957 [sirens wailing] 793 01:12:49,930 --> 01:12:51,664 [shouting] 794 01:12:51,666 --> 01:12:54,470 Lots of people were there, by 7:00 in the night, 795 01:12:55,436 --> 01:12:57,803 and we were live. 796 01:12:57,805 --> 01:12:59,841 [Carioca, in Portuguese] 797 01:13:02,644 --> 01:13:06,845 [Silva] Suddenly a man came to Carioca, and he asked to interview him. 798 01:13:06,847 --> 01:13:08,117 [Carioca, in Portuguese] 799 01:13:10,717 --> 01:13:14,986 [Silva] And then the military police came to Carioca, searched his bag. 800 01:13:14,988 --> 01:13:19,558 And then they said he should be taken to jail 801 01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:23,862 as a preventive arrestment, to be searched and inquired. 802 01:13:23,864 --> 01:13:25,900 [Carioca, in Portuguese] 803 01:13:29,470 --> 01:13:33,973 How this information was being virilized was really amazing. 804 01:13:33,975 --> 01:13:36,608 Like sharing, sharing, sharing, tweets, tweets, tweets, 805 01:13:36,610 --> 01:13:37,943 mention, mention, mention. 806 01:13:37,945 --> 01:13:39,711 "The Ninja is being arrested." 807 01:13:39,713 --> 01:13:42,113 And suddenly there was, like, a small crowd. 808 01:13:42,115 --> 01:13:44,483 Like 5,000 people. 809 01:13:44,485 --> 01:13:47,219 And all of them was screaming together, 810 01:13:47,221 --> 01:13:49,925 [in Portuguese] 811 01:13:50,824 --> 01:13:53,561 [chanting in Portuguese] 812 01:13:56,831 --> 01:13:58,667 [in Portuguese] 813 01:14:07,242 --> 01:14:08,777 [man speaking in Portuguese] 814 01:14:11,512 --> 01:14:12,914 [woman speaking Portuguese] 815 01:14:15,850 --> 01:14:19,521 [Teles, in Portuguese] 816 01:14:37,137 --> 01:14:42,109 [in Portuguese] 817 01:14:49,884 --> 01:14:54,722 [in Portuguese] 818 01:14:58,192 --> 01:14:59,625 [shouting] 819 01:14:59,627 --> 01:15:03,731 [in Portuguese] 820 01:15:18,246 --> 01:15:21,580 [Silva, in English] Then we posted this video from the mobile, like, real time, 821 01:15:21,582 --> 01:15:23,251 and it virilized very fast. 822 01:15:27,755 --> 01:15:30,025 [Carioca, in Portuguese] 823 01:16:09,130 --> 01:16:10,032 [glass shattering] 824 01:16:13,967 --> 01:16:16,037 [vocalizing] 825 01:16:17,639 --> 01:16:19,173 [video sound distorted] 826 01:16:28,181 --> 01:16:31,086 [vocalizing continues] 827 01:16:34,354 --> 01:16:35,256 [glass shattering] 828 01:17:02,315 --> 01:17:04,885 [woman speaking Portuguese] 829 01:17:05,453 --> 01:17:10,325 [woman vocalizing] 830 01:17:19,801 --> 01:17:21,970 [vocalizing] 831 01:17:25,038 --> 01:17:26,641 [shouting] 832 01:17:38,051 --> 01:17:40,221 [music distorting] 833 01:17:48,930 --> 01:17:50,298 [gunshot muffled] 834 01:17:54,769 --> 01:17:56,204 [electrical crackling] 835 01:18:03,877 --> 01:18:05,046 [crackling continues] 836 01:18:16,356 --> 01:18:19,825 The video was just getting bigger in the social media. 837 01:18:19,827 --> 01:18:21,794 Bruno Teles became a character. 838 01:18:21,796 --> 01:18:23,798 [crowd shouting] 839 01:18:25,899 --> 01:18:30,705 [in Portuguese] 840 01:18:50,858 --> 01:18:53,224 [Silva] They said that Bruno was innocent, 841 01:18:53,226 --> 01:18:57,929 and they used Midia Ninja image. 842 01:18:57,931 --> 01:19:00,199 And they credited Midia Ninja. 843 01:19:00,201 --> 01:19:03,501 It was the first time that we were seeing 844 01:19:03,503 --> 01:19:08,107 Globo recognizing a free media collective 845 01:19:08,109 --> 01:19:12,544 as a legitimate player in the communication game. 846 01:19:12,546 --> 01:19:15,317 It was a next step. 847 01:19:17,051 --> 01:19:19,054 [crowd shouting] 848 01:19:22,023 --> 01:19:23,091 [gunshot] 849 01:19:28,195 --> 01:19:29,797 [explosion] 850 01:19:41,576 --> 01:19:42,844 [glass shattering] 851 01:19:46,314 --> 01:19:51,887 [woman] Oh, he's changing his shirt. 852 01:19:55,590 --> 01:19:57,225 [shouting] 853 01:20:00,060 --> 01:20:03,097 [woman vocalizing] 854 01:20:12,340 --> 01:20:15,177 [Orlando, in Portuguese] 855 01:20:27,454 --> 01:20:28,890 [explosion] 856 01:20:37,030 --> 01:20:40,135 [Bentes, in Portuguese] 857 01:21:03,323 --> 01:21:09,029 [crowd chanting in Portuguese] 858 01:21:18,171 --> 01:21:20,407 [shouting continues] 859 01:21:21,574 --> 01:21:22,978 [crowd booing] 860 01:21:26,346 --> 01:21:28,916 [in Portuguese] 861 01:21:37,057 --> 01:21:39,226 [woman] 862 01:21:42,128 --> 01:21:43,331 [woman crying] 863 01:21:54,442 --> 01:21:56,342 [Orlando] 864 01:21:56,344 --> 01:21:58,613 [shouting] 865 01:22:05,152 --> 01:22:10,188 [crowd chanting] Ninja! Ninja! Ninja! 866 01:22:10,190 --> 01:22:12,590 [in Portuguese] 867 01:22:12,592 --> 01:22:17,231 [crowd repeating] 868 01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:22,037 [crowd repeating] 869 01:22:24,537 --> 01:22:26,407 [cheering] 870 01:22:29,275 --> 01:22:30,211 [crowd] Ninja! 871 01:22:33,213 --> 01:22:37,284 [crowd chanting] 872 01:22:44,024 --> 01:22:47,161 [digital pop music playing] 873 01:22:59,273 --> 01:23:02,775 I've always been a fan of the terms "hacking" and "hacktivism." 874 01:23:02,777 --> 01:23:04,410 Especially "hacktivism" 875 01:23:04,412 --> 01:23:07,812 which is the combination of hacking and political activism. 876 01:23:07,814 --> 01:23:12,651 And those combined are pretty powerful to me. 877 01:23:12,653 --> 01:23:17,425 It's about encouraging people not to accept technology at face value. 878 01:23:18,792 --> 01:23:20,659 We need to encourage people to think about 879 01:23:20,661 --> 01:23:23,594 what it is that surrounds them, 880 01:23:23,596 --> 01:23:26,065 to question authority 881 01:23:26,067 --> 01:23:30,235 in a sense of the authority being the technological environment around them 882 01:23:30,237 --> 01:23:35,607 and to realize that when you start pulling back the layers of all of this, 883 01:23:35,609 --> 01:23:37,809 that's where the exercise of power is. 884 01:23:37,811 --> 01:23:41,280 So if we want liberal democracy to flourish, 885 01:23:41,282 --> 01:23:44,282 we need people to start lifting back the layers 886 01:23:44,284 --> 01:23:45,653 and understanding what's going on. 887 01:23:54,694 --> 01:23:58,565 [clicking] 888 01:24:01,301 --> 01:24:05,303 [Snowden] I think ultimately it comes down to understanding what your values are, 889 01:24:05,305 --> 01:24:07,772 because how do you develop your thoughts, right? 890 01:24:07,774 --> 01:24:09,842 How do you determine what it is that you truly believe? 891 01:24:09,844 --> 01:24:13,411 How do you determine what it is you really want to say, 892 01:24:13,413 --> 01:24:15,513 if you can't even keep notes safely? 893 01:24:15,515 --> 01:24:19,585 If you can't have some private space, some space for thought, 894 01:24:19,587 --> 01:24:22,454 some space to enjoy the product of your own intellect, 895 01:24:22,456 --> 01:24:24,857 to share that with people close to you who you trust. 896 01:24:24,859 --> 01:24:27,695 Whether they're family, whether they're colleagues, whether they're compatriots. 897 01:24:36,670 --> 01:24:42,241 [Deibert] One thing that I see a lot is, this idea of technology as a solution. 898 01:24:42,243 --> 01:24:44,776 It's a natural thing. Okay, technology is under threat. 899 01:24:44,778 --> 01:24:46,713 Let's find a technological solution. 900 01:24:48,282 --> 01:24:49,882 There are so many projects now 901 01:24:49,884 --> 01:24:53,818 around secure communications, platforms, chats, instant messaging. 902 01:24:53,820 --> 01:24:57,923 But it's only one component of a solution set. 903 01:24:57,925 --> 01:25:02,163 And I think often overlooked are the legal and political dimensions. 904 01:25:03,296 --> 01:25:04,428 If we're talking about 905 01:25:04,430 --> 01:25:06,565 protecting and preserving all of this, 906 01:25:06,567 --> 01:25:10,602 as a secure and open communication space, 907 01:25:10,604 --> 01:25:12,537 that means holding governments accountable. 908 01:25:12,539 --> 01:25:14,572 It means holding companies accountable. 909 01:25:14,574 --> 01:25:17,175 Putting in place rules and laws 910 01:25:17,177 --> 01:25:22,246 that ensures they can't do things that infringe on our freedoms and rights. 911 01:25:22,248 --> 01:25:25,384 That to me is, uh, 912 01:25:25,386 --> 01:25:29,423 such a critical foundation of a digital democracy today. 913 01:25:31,118 --> 01:25:36,118 Subtitles by explosiveskull 72793

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