All language subtitles for Skokie (1981) (inglés_ASR)

[Music]

thank you

Frank Cullen 2519 West 71st Street

Chicago

there you are there's your Jew influence

right there what do you mean pick up the

address right oh no here's the address

on our letterhead Central headquarters

National Socialist Party of America I

made damn sure to leave that up what did

they say are they going to let us

demonstrate in the park out there

yeah sure

if we post a 350 000 insurance bond to

cover possible damage to Puck property

I'll tell you if those Martin Luther

Coons wanted to demonstrate they

wouldn't ask them why you tried to get a

permit out of Skokie everybody knows

it's a damn Jew town what we want to do

is to March right here in Chicago in

Marquette Park I mean our people are

here with the jigs moving in they're

gonna listen to us shut up

I'm the leader here

you hear me

I'm

the leader

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[Applause]

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[Applause]

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thank you

to be there nothing but I don't know

if you get a chance to read the letter

naturally I'd like to study it further

bro well he's got it all spelled out

picketing on public property in front of

City Hall available

traffic carry signs white free speeches

touched all Races

demonstrators shall make no derogatory

remarks either orally or in writing

against ethnic or religious groups sure

they stay in Chicago where he belongs

yes

where were you I've been calling you

since 10 o'clock this morning downtown

in court that's wonderful I need my

Village don't get excited out

I've got a private practice to take care

of us as well read Garland's letter

it's not going to be simple he knows

what he's doing

this demonstration is a meeting and

exercise of the Constitutional privilege

of petitioning for redress of grievances

it's the Bill of Rights

you read the last paragraph

demonstrators will March in uniform

wearing the symbol of the National

Socialist Party of America

Nazi Stormtroopers with swastikas that's

exactly what I need outside the mayor's

office Nazis

but

I wanted you in on this from the

beginning now we've got a very explosive

situation here

very large part of the Town Council is

of Hebrew persuasion Jews Jews Al it's

all right just say Jews exactly

out of a population of seventy thousand

we have somewhere around 30 000 Jews and

on top of that a very significant number

of those people are survivors of the

Nazi concentration camps and their

families very solid citizens too voters

just what are you getting at shirana

well look Bert the idea of it Nazis

swastikas and all those people out there

who survived the whole horrible thing

there's a there's a humanitarian impact

and uh all right they voted for me yes I

have an obligation to those people I

have to face that yes I guess so but

I've always prided myself in being

absolutely blind to race or color or

religion in my Administration but I

I want your personal opinion because

you're the village attorney and also

because you just happen to be Jewish how

it didn't just happen help me will you

what in God's name can we do

Al I'm I'm not trying to duck this

but I wasn't exactly crazy about that

Park District Insurance Dodge Chicago

tried to use that against Colin and he

went out and got herb Lewis into the

American civil liberties Union to

challenge it in the courts yeah okay I

know that

my ballpark opinion is that eventually

every one of those insurance

requirements will be thrown out as

unconstitutional Bert I want your

personal reaction

as a Jew Al for every two Jewels you're

going to get three opinions

[Music]

later you better call me anyway I don't

know if I can stay over I gotta ask him

well then you call me okay okay

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

I will sit there I will say nothing what

do you mean Max what does that mean Max

Max

what do you mean interfere when do I

interfere Beth I'm a person who Minds

his own business and I will Max all I'm

saying is that their promise is a

promise

but can you stop what are we saying this

[Music]

oh please Jada don't drop the ring in

the can you could swallow it

it's wrong

nothing nothing's wrong you just got

home

I told you they would try out for the

turrets oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

yeah yes yes yes how was it good

look you will be the best cheer at

anybody ever saw you know that well they

only take a couple of sophomores don't

worry about it because they'll take you

first of all you're the prettiest man

you're a very good dancers why are you

worried

oh so politics anyways

oh Pop all the kids are going over to

Penny Jensen's after supper I'm gonna

stay over

can you drop me there hmm

Penny jansen's over near Lincolnwood

who went tonight you see you have to

take her all the way to Lincolnwood you

couldn't go with hershkowitz in the

first place Janet honey you know I would

take you I would like to take you but

but but that promise

I just can't tonight tonight is a

problem you understand I I can't tonight

well as a matter of fact if you let me

get my license oh I don't want to hear

about license everybody gets one penny

took a test on her 16th birthday

sweetheart we'll talk about the license

another time huh because Mom would just

I just got against the driver but I just

can't do it tonight tonight it's

different no it isn't

I always have to ask you to take me

anywhere I mean it's absolutely edible

let Daddy alone

I got a right to know why

look look honey I because it's Friday

night I I have to go to Senegal you

never go

China please sir maybe a Danny bomb next

door will drive you or a taxi

why is Daddy going to synagogue tonight

it's nothing nothing it's a special

meeting of the at The Men's Club

throughout the men's club stuff with a

junk mail better maybe we should explain

relax

why do you think I don't understand if

you say it in Yiddish she shouldn't have

to hear such things

she is 16 years old she's a she's a

person of intelligence

what it is is

Nazis are coming here

to Skokie what do you mean Nazis

um look

why don't we have a supper and then pop

I got the call from the community

organization what they want like I said

Nazis from Chicago

they're coming too much here in Skokie

in three weeks I saw him on TV in a park

or something is that all yeah

yeah that's all

it's nothing why did you have to say in

front of the child mom do you always

have to call me the child she's a little

girl in America

what did she have to hear person please

why do you have to go I promised

hershkowitz if you say something you

call attention I will not say anything

when do I ever say anything I'm a quiet

man I will sit quietly with her skirts

and I will listen don't worry

excuse me

now as you know one of our important

jobs in the Anti-Defamation League of

the Benet brith is to keep a close watch

on anti-semitic activities in the United

States

the old german-american Bund of the 30s

was financed by the German government

itself and it disappeared with the

outbreak of World War II now the current

Nazi Splinter Group started about 10

years after the war with George Lincoln

Rockwell who was a brilliant manipulator

of publicity he could always deduce the

newspapers and television into giving

him coverage even though he never had

more than 500 followers nationally now

Colin and a Chicago group are one of the

tiny Splinter parties across the country

now I I don't believe in underestimating

anti-Semitism but our best professional

opinion is that Colin and groups like

his are so isolated from American

realities that they do not present any

kind of present danger to the Safety and

Security of Jews

how do they work they exploit the anger

and outrage of decent people to get what

they can't achieve for themselves

attention publicity they create trouble

to get in the newspapers and on

television now over the years we have

developed a tactic to deal with this

quarantine Our advice to Jewish

communities is to refuse to give them

the confrontation they want when they

show up with 15 or 20 of their shabby as

odd Stormtroopers turn your back don't

give the television camera anything

exciting to take a picture of the worst

thing you can do is to give them a

platform National exposure to spread

their anti-semitic garbage

that's uh that's about it I'll be glad

to answer any questions about developing

a game plan to deal with this situation

thank you

[Applause]

thank you very much Mr Rosen that's all

there is I would like to introduce I

mean the man came all the way from

downtown

and he's always expressed the close

cooperation of the non-jewish and Jewish

communities

Albert Smith

thank you Reverend Steinberg Mr Rosen

ladies and gentlemen I want to make

something absolutely clear to all my

Jewish friends here this evening and

that is that your Christian neighbors

here in the Village of Skokie hold

hoodlums like Frank Cullen and his ilk

in the utmost contempt

we share your outrage and your concern

and we intend to act in utmost good

faith to assure the safety excuse me and

the protection I beg your pardon I would

like to ask a question well yes sir I'd

be happy to answer any questions you

might have in a moment or two however

there are with respect your honor not

you

the other one the one from the Chicago

Anti-Defamation I think we should hold

all questions for Mr Rosen until just

said that he would be happy to answer

questions I'm sorry if I'm out of order

but I I do have a question you know it's

it's all right it's all right I'll be

happy to defer a question to Mr Rosen

go ahead sir ask your question

I am Max Feldman I am the President and

founder of precision fabricating

Incorporated

which is uh located here in Skokie on

Springfield Boulevard

I just want to tell Mr Rosen from

Chicago

that what he said

went straight inside me like like an

echo if you have a question Mr Feldman I

kept saying to myself Max Max somewhere

I heard that speech before

but but not here not in Chicago not in

America

but where did I hear that speech I heard

it in Germany

it came from the big city

very fine professional men all members

of the National Jewish organizations

I was very young but I remember what

they said Nazis Stormtroopers

hoodlums in the street

how many are there a handful they're

just Petty criminals don't pay attention

go home they said close the doors pull

down the window shades don't look

nothing will happen

quarantine

they talked about quarantine

strategies game plans tactics I don't

mean to offend you but there was then Mr

Rosen who said they are no danger to the

safety and the security of the Jews

so my question to Mr Rosen is no

no no

Mr Feldman please there'll be plenty of

time for comment from the floor and

we do have outside guests you know what

this is

a tattoo

a number

beer and Transit fears X and Isaac

it's a concentration camp number

do you know what that meant

can you know what really happened

can you know what the swastika was

can you know what is a Nazi Mr Feldman I

understand believe me there is no way of

minimizing or arguing with a personal

pain a tragedy and suffering of people

who've come to the Holocaust I am trying

to recommend a practical proven tactic

for today's realities sit down no no

I came here to sit to listen not to say

anything but I don't want to hear about

tactics and strategies this is not a

game

I will not go home I will not pull down

the window shades

not this time not in my own town where I

made a business and a home where I

raised my child if the Nazi marches here

in Skokie

you can believe me I will be there I

will be there with baseball bats with a

gun with anything I will be

[Applause]

Mr Feldman I understand your feelings I

assure

[Applause]

condone any call for violence forgive me

I mean no disrespect for the sufferings

of Jews but we cannot sink to the level

of the Nazis themselves Rabbi the Jews

in particular must always depend upon

the protection of law rabbi

you don't know you are a young man from

Cincinnati what do you know Feldman is

right the whole tactic of non-violence

as developed by Gandhi excuse me

I don't have to hear from Yeshiva

Mahatma Gandhi you weren't there you

didn't see it happen

we did

we saw our mothers and fathers murdered

children beaten to death

in my family there is nobody

a cousin in Tel Aviv that is all

my mama my papa

my brothers and sisters my uncles my

aunts my cousins

nobody you want us to walk into the gas

Chambers again is that what you want

I am an old man but I would fight

I don't care if I drop dead from my

heart who are the police the police are

going to let the last his March in in

this America please look we're all on

the same side the only question is this

is a matter of handling a very complex

and sophisticated problem in a practical

way believe me we have had experience

the most effective way of handling this

is to quarantine

[Applause]

I am telling you and mayor Smith

you want to avoid violence I'll tell you

how

if you want no violence keep the Nazis

out

because if they march here if they bring

the swastika here I swear to you

nothing there is nothing will keep me

from fighting

the Nazis will not March on my life

on the grave of my mother which was a

lime pit in the death camp at matthausen

of a pile a heap of naked Jewish bodies

on that grave

I swear it

thank you

[Applause]

Kenny was absolutely smashed oh no he

just puts it on he only had one Cannon

he gave me half what were they doing out

on the porch Oh Donna and Bill Samuel

yeah I thought they were making out but

they were just

they were smoking

dope well yeah I told him they had to go

outside I didn't want my folks coming

downstairs to smelling it yeah

is that you Grandma Jansen she always

wakes up

foreign

well you ought to be asleep grandma oh I

don't need much sleep these days here

here sit down dear

what's your name

Janet oh yes yes of course

well how was the party

it was very nice it's great it seemed

like very nice children

they're okay yeah good night grandma

good night dear Janet

good night

Penny if I were you I'd get rid of those

beer cans before your mother gets up for

breakfast in the morning I took care of

it grandma

I think she drives mom up the wall but I

love her

you know it's funny

she's older than God or something and

yet she seems to understand how I feel

you know yeah

I remember when I was a little girl

and I used to wake up in the middle of

the night and if I was real scared

or if I was unhappy

I used to run into her room and climb up

on her bed and snuggle in with her

everything smelled of old-fashioned

smells

like lavender and Verbena and starched

eyelet embroidery and stuff

and I'd grab onto the end of her braid

and I'd twirl it around my finger

and I could cry if I wanted to

and everything would be okay

are you crying or something

did I say something

what is it

I don't know

I don't know

listen I'm sorry Janet

something about Grandma

I guess it made me think of my

grandmother

I don't know what's the matter with me

well what was she like

your grandmother

I don't know

as a matter of fact I never knew any of

my grandparents

I cry over that that's a dumb reason

your folks are refugees

from Germany or something

I know they were in a concentration camp

they've got numbers on their arms

and

that's why my mom won't wear short

sleeve blouses wow

I don't know very much else about it I

mean my mother and father never talk

about it

I never asked

it's just thumbs suddenly start crying

about nothing

I mean I feel awful sad

like I lost something and I could never

find it

jdl what's what's the jdl Jewish Defense

League they're well they're sort of an

ultra militant Jewish Action Group they

picked Arab delegations the Soviet

consulate they do a little more than

that the point is they've announced

their intention of coming here and

confronting the Nazis in the street

great great we're gonna have a

convention here yeah have you seen these

yeah take a look at this

a call to Progressive forces smash the

Nazis no free speech for fascists

who put this out yeah some far out

communist splinter group from Chicago

maoist or something I'm very much

concerned this is going to lead to

violence oh hell I can guarantee it's

going to lead to violence

yet Colin and his Nazis your Jewish

defense Bunch they're not my bunch all

right I know the point is we're going to

have a police problem that I can't

handle by myself

I have to borrow from the state police

you left out the survivors

they've been holding meetings nearly

every night this week and there's always

one of the survivors there taking a very

tough line

Saul Goldstein Max Feldman he's been at

nearly every meeting

and then are particularly interested in

Abbott rosen's line

and the rest of the congregations there

are backing them all away

I am back how was the meeting

how should it be it's like the others oh

who was there Rosen Rosen from the

Anti-Defamation League was there what

did he want what he always wants

quarantine

he doesn't give up

don't give them the satisfaction he said

well I would like to give them plenty

but not satisfaction

Saul Goldstein was elected the head of

the survivors committee

you'll hear plenty from him don't worry

I was on the six o'clock news

fool

what's the matter you sick

I take a little dizzy no I'm all right

did you take something I took something

Max right this isn't good for you you

had blood pressure last year that was

last year but this year I have no blood

pressure blood pressure you get from

holding things in why don't you let the

people handle it whose job it is the

rabbi what kind of a rabbi is that he's

a kid he plays tennis he doesn't even

look like a rabbi he has a beard a beard

you call that a beard my account

executive and the advertising agency has

such a beard better Rabbi should have

the beer

it's foolish

I mean who is Max Feldman to set himself

up against professionals do you think

the Anti-Defamation lead doesn't

understand anti-Semitism anti-Semitism

they understand

Nazis I understand why do you think you

can handle things better maybe you're

making a mistake I will just not pull

down the window shades oh look who's to

say they're not right his picture was in

the paper with his swastika it was on

the six o'clock tv suppose quarantine is

Right quarantine is not right Daddy

what can I talk to you no I I have a

free morning tomorrow okay because I I'm

a little bit tired tonight Daddy it's

important I want to talk to you now all

right if it's important and I will talk

to you now well what is it something to

do with the cheer Edge you need a

sweater or something

how did Grandma Ida die

what how did Grandma Ida die

it's been bothering me that's all I mean

you never seem to talk about it

I've got a right to know after all she

was my grandmother

laughs

all right

come sit down

come

sit down I will tell you

the town we lived in was close to the

Polish border

and my father was a tinchman a blackhead

they called it he died 10 years before

and then there was a an order for the

deportation of all the Jews

and in my family there was my mother

and my sister

and my mother's sister tantalia

she was a nice woman I liked her

we never did find out what happened to

her ever

first we were in a narbites Commando

that to forced labor camp

we were digging gravel from a hill over

here and dragging it in cards to a place

over there no one ever said why we just

doing it

and there were the soldiers

and the couples

that they were the prisoners who were

guards with clubs

and if you spilled the shovel

and if you didn't move the card fast

enough they would beat you

and if you fell down and couldn't get up

they would beat them until they were

dead

or maybe shoot them

and they would just lie there like a

bundle of rags

and all day long you would drag the

cards back and forth back and forth

and in the end you would say

what is that

you would forget

or some human being laying there

it would be just a bundle of rags

and once a week

was the selection

the captain from the SS would come with

shining boots and swastika on his arm

and everybody was lined up

and they would pass by

and they had a stick

stick with a little leather Loop

and he went

with the stick left to right left to

right

and if he went right

it meant you were alive for another week

but if he went less

you were never seen again

I used to watch my mother getting weaker

and weaker

she she was a shower a seamstress

she used to embroider

fancy things for the rich ladies in town

the Beautiful

delicate flowers with silk threads

they were beautiful

and she she wasn't a strong woman to

begin with

how long could she keep dragging the

cards with gravel and rocks up to the

hill

then the day came

and everybody was lined up

and my mother passed

and the captain

that's all

little way

like that

to the left

I started to shout and to run after her

and three people held me down and they

stuffed rags in my mouth so I should

shut up

there's nothing you can do they said

that's what they said there's nothing

you can do

later

after the war

I was in a British DP camp

and I met a man from our town

lead bukatinski was his name

Carpenter

he worked on the Commando at mudhausen

they were the

the prisoners who did the work around

the gas Chambers

piling up the boots sorting out the

clothes

carrying the bodies

he told me he said

Maxwell

I saw your mother

she was on a card going to the lime pit

he remembered her from town

he apologized to me

but to make sure he went close to look

the bodies were naked

he said it was your mother

I recognized her from her red hair

thank you

I

I just wanted to know

hello

yes you did

who is this

daddy do you want me to answer the phone

daddy is that for me

no

no no it's not for you

[Music]

as Chief your Cannon

well some of our jdl friends are here

[Music]

like I dressed up for world war three

horror

huh horror it's a Jewish folk dance

yeah

well we got five days

you think there's gonna be trouble

I know there's going to be trouble

if you got at least three groups are you

looking for a fight what you got to take

a push a rock a bottle

all right

now suppose we can keep them apart

we can give Collins a sidewalk

downstairs

the other one's the jdl over in the

parking lot here on Douglas Street that

new left group from Chicago all the way

down here on Doyle place no

all right we're going to get absolutely

nowhere if you just take a negative

attitude you're not going to be able to

keep these groups apart Mr May you'd

have to call out the National Guard and

I'm afraid you've left out another group

Mr Feldman and the survivors there was

another meeting last night and they

voted to hold a counter demonstration in

the municipal parking lot

well that's the last piece isn't it

look there's no way around it now

if those Nazis March in Skokie there's

going to be violence

well

you're our lawyer aren't you going to

say anything damn it I'm the mayor of

this town and I have the right to keep

the peace

nobody wants those pissant Nazis around

here

there's got to be some way of kicking

them out and keeping the peace

Bert

well as an attorney there are certain

constitutional overtones it's very

complicated it isn't it's very simple

if they March there's going to be

violence therefore they're not going to

March

Frank Colin and his Nazis aren't going

to set one foot in Skokie that's it

period

Are You The Village attorney and you

figure out how we're going to do that

can I talk to you

uh Mr Collins a little late right now

I'll be in my office at 10 in the

morning it's important the office is

closing right now you're my lawyer

you're a lawsuit against the Chicago

Park District won't come up in court for

another three or four weeks call me in

my office will you it's not about the

Chicago Park case

it's something else

I just received this from the Village of

Skokie it's a whole new case

I think you ought to look at it I can

stay for a while herb if you want

no I'll take care of it thank you

it's coming

see you tomorrow bye

what is it this time

notice of a filing by the Village of

Skokie in Cook County circuit court

against Colin his party at Al yeah

they're seeking an injunction to borrow

Colin and his followers from parading in

uniform on the streets of Skokie on May

1st

there's a notice of hearing in Cook

County Circuit Village of Skokie by

Bertram Silverman Corporation Council

have you looked it over yeah

well

it's worse than the Chicago Park case

what does it involve First Amendment

Free Speech assembly it's pretty clear

what do you think about what

the case

do we take it

can't avoid it

you look at it from the purely legal if

you my other view is there

wow we already got a lot of heat

representing Colin what does that have

to do with a clear violation of the

First Amendment take it easy herb take

it easy please I'm just trying to assess

the situation we can't back away from a

violation of the first amendment that is

this clear I'm going to have to answer

to the board why would the board of any

question about it well for one thing

he's a Nazi and there are a number of

Jews on the board

Dave I'm a Jew too I know you're a Jew

but this isn't Chicago

this is Skokie

and you are going to have to take a

position supporting a Nazi

against concentration camp survivors if

this office doesn't take the case I'm

going to resign and represent him on my

own wait I didn't say anything like that

I am just trying to prepare our position

because it sure as hell is going to be

trouble the principle is the same

whether it's Colin and his Nazis or

Martin Luther King in some Civil Rights

march philosophy may be the same but you

know public relations are a little

different herb I've got to protect you

I'm gonna get in touch with the board

chairman

and he is going to order you to take on

the case he doesn't have to order me to

do anything I know no I know I want you

covered against any kind of personal

attack

okay Dave

what do we do well I'm going home

I want you to try the list of attorneys

we've used on past cases

maybe I don't think I'm gonna find one

this petition has to be answered in the

morning

would you call Rachel and tell her I

won't be home till about eight or nine

o'clock

please

is that him

that's him

[Applause]

your honor this is a simple first

amendment case the Village of Skokie

seeks an order preventing an exercise of

free speech before the speech has ever

occurred and in spite of the fact that

it has been proposed as an orderly

exercise taking place for only 20

minutes on public property in front of

the Skokie municipal building now

however we might disapprove of what may

be the content of the speech there is no

question that it falls within the

protection of the First Amendment

and a court order granting such a prior

restraint would be clearly

unconstitutional as we already have made

clear in our complaint your honor the

circumstances in the case are

exceptional

the population of the Village of Skokie

is some 40 percent Jewish including an

inordinately high percentage of

survivors of the Holocaust and immediate

families of those who were murdered by

the Nazis in Europe this

threatened march by Nazis is a

deliberate attempt to exacerbate the

sensitivities of the Jewish population

of Skokie and to incite racial and

religious hatred it is an incitation to

violence and retaliation

I'm a survivor of the Holocaust

in the sense that I'm alive today but in

another way

no one who was there survived complete

not without a wound a deep wound missed

Goldstein

your mother died at that time she was

killed yes

she was thrown in a well

Mr Goldstein what do you think of when

you see a swastika a swastika means to

me

the murder of my mother

the swastika Flew Over the

camps that sent my mother also that's

what the swastika means when I see this

swastika I know that even here in this

country I'm not safe with my life that

my children are not safe with their

lives even here Mr Goldstein have you

any reason to believe that you're in

danger now certainly why shouldn't I I

got telephone calls and these were

threatening phone calls your honor I

object what is it concert well unless

counsel is prepared to establish that

the defendant made those telephone calls

I failed to see how they're relevant

they said they were Nazis to me also

please I'm going to remind The

Spectators that they must remain quiet

there is no reason to connect the

defendant with telephone calls all right

all right but I think we're headed for a

different point overruled

these calls that you identify as Nazi

they made you fear for your life that's

right Mr Goldstein what do you think

would happen if the Nazis March in

Skokie what would happen

would be blood do you have any plans to

use violence against these Nazis oh no

no I got no plan but if they marched in

the streets of Skokie your new home in

their Nazi uniforms with the swastikas

could you guarantee that you would be

able to control your memories your

horror your rage no who could do that

could you promise that you would be able

to control yourself from taking violent

action against these Nazis no no I

couldn't you feel that you might be

driven uncontrollably to take violent

action against this symbol of the

murderers of your mother I tell you from

my heart if I see the Nazis marching

again with the swastika I couldn't tell

you what I would do do you think you

might attack them do you think you might

attack them with guns with baseball bats

Chase it out

[Applause]

I may

face your right hand

do you solemnly swear by the ever-living

god that the testimony you shall give in

this case now on hearing will be the

truth the whole truth and nothing but

the truth I do

you see you please

irana I should like the court to rule

that Mr Cullen is a hostile witness

well this is a civil hearing we're not

so touchy about those things but well

we'll consider this a hostile witness

thank you your honor

now

now your name is Francis Joseph Colin

yes sir you are the founder and leader

of the National Socialist Party of

America

the correct title is League fuhrer

yes well

now Mr Colin would you describe that as

a Nazi organization yes I would

I uh I show you the sleevelet with the

imprint of your organization

have you read it

I've read it

you agree with the views expressed in me

my objection your honor the witness's

personal views are irrelevant here they

have nothing to do with his right of

free speech constitutionally neither the

court nor the Village of Skokie has the

right to prohibit speech simply because

of the views of the speaker

counselor your honor we maintain that

the reasonable reaction to the witnesses

proposed provocation will be violent we

therefore wish to make clear to the

court just what that provocation is that

is a simple heckler's veto position

you've made your argument overruled

go ahead counselor

Mr Colin I read a passage to you from

this leaflet the Jews are responsible

for the black invasion of Southwest

Chicago we must attack them in Evanston

the North Shore Morton Grove Skokie Etc

do you agree with these views I do

Mr Cullen have you ever read Mind conf

by Adolf Hitler and do you agree with it

your honor we object

it is a constitutional principle that a

man is on trial not for his views for

what he believes but for what he does or

intends to do overruled on the same

ground but the investigation into

anyone's political beliefs has no

bearing counselor I have made my ruling

have you ever read Mein Kampf I have

several times

and do you agree with everything in it I

agree perfectly with everything Adolf

Hitler said

okay now Mr Colin you have said that the

purpose of your proposed demonstration

outside the municipal building in Skokie

was to protest the action by the Skokie

Park District in denying you a permit to

hold a meeting is that correct yes

was that the only purpose

yes sir how long did you plan to

demonstrate 20 minutes did you plan to

make any speech

no sir or distribute leaflets no and the

number of demonstrators was to be

limited to 25 am I correct yes did you

plan or propose or indicate any

intention of breaking any laws during

the demonstration no

I have no further questions

your honor this is a classic case in

which government officials are asking a

court of equity to impose a prior

restraint on the speech of persons

advocating unpopular ideas now the

Village of Skokie has shown only that

the political views of Colin and his

party are offensive and outrageous which

of course they are they have failed to

show any reason to believe that the

defendants plan to engage in any sort of

illegal activity whatsoever

the question of violence has been

repeatedly raised here but that threat

of violence comes not from Colin and his

party but from others who would keep

them from exercising their first

amendment rights now your honor the

legal scholar Harry Calvin called this a

heckler's veto the theory that a hostile

reaction of listeners to a speaker can

be the grounds for silencing that

speaker in advance

now I submit

that failing any showing of illegal

activity this court cannot issue a prior

restraint

it's my opinion based on the evidence

I've seen

the leaflets the absolutely repulsive

material in them which the defendant

evolves completely I believe

he intends to make trouble

to incite to Riot and cause bodily harm

now Mr lewison you can split

constitutional hairs but the

Constitution certainly doesn't give a

person like Colin the right to come into

a peaceful community and cause violence

so I see no need to delay a ruling I

will issue an order and joining the

defendants from engaging in any of the

following acts on May 1 1977 within the

Village of Skokie marching

walking

or operating in uniform displaying the

swastika displaying any materials which

incite or promote hatred of persons of

Jewish faith or ancestry

[Applause]

[Music]

Mr Lewis let me ask you a question do

you think the ACLU will appeal this

decision yes we're going to enter an

immediate appeal we expect First

Amendment to be upheld

come on

just Lewis that was a fabulous job

remember

well I guess you're going to file for

appeal sure I'll be talking to the

appellate court tomorrow morning well

I'll see you in court

doesn't it feel kind of funny what

I mean you've argued the First Amendment

for us before in 68 the Democratic

Convention

it's kind of surprising finding you

arguing for prior restraint

what is surprising to find you a Jew

arguing defense of a Nazi like Colin

thank you

we are very busy right now could you

call later

I'm sorry Mrs Margolis this is your

father we're going crazy here

I'm sorry that you feel that way silly

I'm sorry

well what are the positions of your

board of directors well there's been no

statement from the board yet and I

haven't heard from the national animal

this is this the first time the ACLU as

represented no it's not the first time

we've defended the rights of Nazis we

have represented uh herb herb George

Lincoln Rockwell

he's a senior legal counsel to the

Chicago office excuse me there'll be a

statement a little later please just

excuse me please yes yes

on the last three hours we've had over a

hundred calls mostly ACLU members like

Mrs Margolis they are not happy well

there's always some kind of a reaction

when we get into these things not like

this the New York office called they're

getting the same thing resignations

protests I had one lady tell me she was

stopping a 15 check for annual dues it's

the same thing in La why I mean this is

nothing new we've gone to court for

these people before the Nazis the

Communists the clan why is it that when

there's a clear-cut case of violation of

the First Amendment

Phyllis I thought I said

oh

well

yeah bring him in

Morton Wiseman

Mr Wiseman

Mr Wiseman how are you

I was sorry to hear you were in the

hospital

you look fine thank you thank you David

I fully recovered I go down to the

exchange once a week now

I think you've met herb Lewis

and this is one of our new legal staff

members Miss Ryan

Mr Wiseman has been one of our most

active supporters for many years

do you care to sit down sir

David

I've written you a letter

but in the light of our association over

the last 10 years I felt constrained to

come in person rather than use the

anonymity of the males

it is my resignation for membership in

the civil liberties Union

Mr Wiseman

is this connected with the case this

morning it is

I feel I can no longer in conscience

support the organization and

any manner

Mr Wiseman

I think you owe us a chance to make our

position

now you've been a supporter of the ACLU

long before I ever came with him

you've been through some very tough

times

yes that's true

this wasn't easy for me I assure you

the point is I know that politically you

are very conservative Republican you

were you were very close to Robert Taft

Mr Wiseman I can't believe that you

would abandon us during this crucial

fight for the First Amendment

I am sorry

for this confrontation this particular

constellation of forces

has brought me to this conclusion but

the Constitutional issues are exactly

the same in all these different cases I

am as you may know a native Chicagoland

and as you say a Republican

but as used to be occasionally suggested

to me at various clubs and social events

I am a Jew

the other day

I saw a man on television

forget his name the

Holocaust Survivor from Skokie Feldman

Max Feldman

and it came to me

in a way I too

am a survivor of the Holocaust

must one defend the right to speak for

those who if they came to power or deny

the right to freedom and need of life to

others

I remember Justice Jackson's warning the

Constitution is not the suicide pact

Mr Wiseman

when we file the appeal I'll have plenty

of time to develop all the philosophical

aspects of this case I'm very sorry Mr

Lewis but above all

there is something monumentally

inappropriate

in a Jewish lawyer

financed by a membership

disproportionately Jewish

to go into a court

to defend the rights of a few hoodlens

to go into a Jewish community and

Proclaim

that was too bad Hitler didn't finish

the job

I'm sorry

Bertha

hi Daddy hello sweetheart I want to hear

the news the pier called just made a

ruling

uh where's your mother

in bed since I got home from school

anything in the bathroom I

took my stereo player

she's playing records

listen don't don't switch the channel

[Music]

you will not believe what I just heard

on the radio in my car

there was a ruling from the Appellate

Court and they denied the motion for the

stay against the injunction against the

March you understand what I'm saying

that they lost

the Nazis lost how do you like it

oh they will appeal to the Supreme Court

those animals but it will take a long

time past the day when they said they

were going to March

and then beside what court in America

will say that Nazis could come here

how do you feel I'm fine the lawyer from

the civil liberties Union Free Speech he

was talking about

but what kind of free speech Nazi saying

they could come here to kill Jews

there's no argument what kind of free

speech is that no no better we won't let

them come to murder us

this is the end of the argument period

put the music back on what

Schubert

don't you understand what I'm saying yes

yes I understand please put the music

back on

push it puts itself on

[Music]

today's news

barred from his plan Skokie March after

that ruling Colin held a press

conference in the headquarters of his

Nazi party near Marquette Park George

Peters was there I want to make it clear

to all the white people of this country

we will not allow the secret Jewish

influence in Government and the courts

to keep us from protesting the

communization look at that and [ __ ]

Rising God should punish him right on

television

our attorneys that they shouldn't let

him on TV

[Music]

on Business from marching in Skokie on

May 1st

[Music]

but it doesn't say anything at all about

April 30th the day before

so we are announcing now on April 30th

the National Socialist Party will March

in Skokie in full uniform and exercise

of our right of free speech this is

George Peters reporting from the

headquarters National Socialist Party of

America we'll be back

it's tomorrow isn't it

30th

[Music]

daddy is that what they look like

it's funny I mean I've only seen

pictures in books

you know Old World War II movies on

television

but I always had a feeling that I knew

that they look familiar

seen myself

I mean really

it's kind of crazy but

[Music]

yesterday I was

downtown with Donna and Arlene and we

were riding the L through the loop

I was pretending it was a train going to

Auschwitz

[Music]

TV unit that's the whole idea

[Music]

foreign

[Applause]

[Applause]

[Applause]

hands off tonight

foreign

did you try to reach judge Sullivan at

home

I know it's an unlisted number uh try my

wheel defining it

we'll try the country club what get him

to send somebody out to the golf course

the Oak Park Country Club no better yet

you go to the house and haven't sent

somebody else out to the golf course yes

that's right Chicago PD just called

Colin started out from Marquette Park

about 10 minutes ago they're gonna Trail

him to the agents Expressway why didn't

they stop him they don't want to get

into it Alex our problems

yes

no we try to get them out of him last

night he was supposed to call first

thing this morning but he knows about it

yes hang on right I'm holding I'm

holding what about downstairs I got all

my men coming in can you handle it no no

I I put in a call to Springfield they're

not going to be able to move fast enough

how long

my head is usually pretty heavy traffic

on the Edens even on a Saturday

yes

your honor

Ed

[Applause]

[Music]

okay

[Music]

come on

[Applause]

it's a Frank Collins yes

she bought the Buchanan Village Skokie

Police Department you haven't got any

right to stop me like this I have a

court order here straining you from

demonstrating or parading in the Village

of Skokie

that said May 1st

the 30th of April I know but as of 10 52

this morning Judd Sullivan expanded the

injunction forbidding you from parading

in the Village of Skokie on the 30th of

April and thereafter

until further notice of the Court

again

[Music]

Colin do you have any comment on the

situation

foreign

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Applause]

from everybody

[Applause]

on Monday morning herb Lewiston of the

ACLU will go into state supreme court

and appeal the injunction that banned

Collins march today

what happens then well Father Kelly

that's hard to say it

the case we've maintained so far depends

on the implied police power used to

avoid certain violence well it did Bert

I don't see anything wrong with that

that's the reason we've called this

meeting

now I've explained this to the mayor

this injunction is a prior restraint

prior restraint of free speech I thought

the judge ruled that it was justifiable

that's right Reverend but that was Cook

County Circuit as we go higher and

higher in the courts they take a very

dim view of prior restraint

herb Lewis and is going to call this the

heckler's beetle what

the idea if otherwise protected speech

inspires violence in its opponents the

only remedy is to ban the speech well a

heckler's veto is a very shaky prop on

those grounds Martin Luther King could

not have marched in Selma Alabama now

wait a minute Mr Silverman that was not

the same you can't equate Martin Luther

King with Colin and his Nazis I really

can't believe it's the same thing I mean

there is a moral difference after all Dr

King was not attacking anyone Dr King

was not trying to attack the basic

principles of Our Lives it was according

to the sheriff of Selma Alabama in fact

according to the majority of white

Southerners excuse me but I'm not

interested in how many lawyers you can

stand on the end of a pen

now this whole town Christians and Jews

were all in agreement on this we have an

obligation to those survivors and

they're all ready to stand together

and this isn't politics I'm talking

about either it's just common decency

which side are you on I'm trying to do

my job as an advocate pointing out the

reality to my client I'm giving you my

professional opinion your honor this

injunction will not stand up on appeal

to the higher courts but you're our

lawyer

now what do we do well I've drawn up a

list of proposed Village ordinances

for permits liability insurance for a

ban of offensive symbols all of which

will effectively bar Colin yes we can

pass them but will they hold up in court

well it'll sure eat up a lot of time and

it'll put the ball in their Court the

counts so far is 350 letters of protest

and resignation now the national office

in New York has figured out that across

the country

resignations will reach nearly

15 of the membership

naturally there's going to be a drop in

contributions in dues

probably in excess of that

I'm a little concerned Dave that we got

ourselves into this position without an

opportunity for this board to debate the

issue well I suggest before you get into

a policy discussion we ought to hear

what the current legal situation is herb

can you fill us in please yeah uh what

we have here basically are two separate

cases number one the original injunction

forbidden Colin to March now that's been

upheld by the circuit court and we have

it on appeal to the Illinois Supreme

Court

which seems to be stalling refusing to

rule one way or the other so we think we

should take it to the United States

Supreme Court to force Illinois to rule

then there's case number two the series

of ordinances passed by Skokie last

Monday what we recommend now

is to move on case number two the

village ordinances and go to court if we

use so much time and money for Colin

won't that limit the defense we can make

for others who may not be as abhorrent

right we can't represent everybody look

damn it well I choose to take on a

pathological anti-semite as a client

hey wait a minute wait a minute the

client is not calling the client is the

Constitution itself come on herb enough

sorry no no come on go on suppose these

Skokie type ordinances were in the hands

of a racist Sheriff facing black civil

rights demonstrators or against Andy

Ward demonstrations over Vietnam

supposedly we're in the hands of a

president who would do anything to

silence his opposition

I never thought I'd be sitting in a

board meeting of the ACLU arguing the

First Amendment

I'm going to quote Justice Holmes if I

get it wrong you'll all correct me

if there is any principle of the

Constitution that more imperatively

calls for attachment than any other

it is the principle of free thought not

free thought for those who agree with us

but freedom for the thought we hate

all right let's get the issues straight

first

on whether you approve the original

action in accepting Collins

could you tell me who's in charge yeah

it's a guy up there on the table

let him alone

excuse me

may I speak to you sir no free speech

for Nazi

I'm Mr Hamlin and I'm the director here

down with Nazis no free speech for

fashions

I remind you that this is a private

office racism is the crime of America

I agree

I'm asking you

and your friends

to leave now

if the Nazis have a right to march in

Skokie then we have a right to occupy

your crypto racist office

fascist propaganda is not free speech

okay let's just take it easy

[Applause]

um

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

you sure we shouldn't call the police

not yet they've called the papers but if

no reporter shows up

they'll leave on their own in a little

while

we get it both ways

Nair told me the jdl sat in in the New

York office

I believe we were about to discuss if

the board approves the decision to take

on Collins's case number two the

ordinances and we continue with his

emotion in order I suppose so sure I

move that the board approved the action

of the executive director in pursuing

this matter that we accept the second

case at follow through on both cases to

the United States Supreme Court if

necessary is there a second yes

the motion being dually seconded

all in favor yes

today's ruling in the Supreme Court of

the United States has instructed the

Illinois courts to stop any further

delay in ruling on American Nazi Frank

Collins appeal against the various bars

to his proposed March in Skokie

Mr Colin do you have any reaction to

today's events

hail our victory in the Supreme Court

excuse me the Supreme Court ruling was

only on the issue of delay not on the

merits of the case

still we consider it a Triumph of white

Christian America over the Jewish

conspiracy

I am applying for permits

we will March in full uniform on the

streets of Skokie on Independence Day

the Glorious 4th of July the Jewish

Defense League will be there if Colin

and his Nazis March in Skokie on the 4th

of July we'll be waiting for him

and you can tell those Nazi loving ACLU

shysters up there if they March There

Will Be Blood and it won't be Jewish

blood it would be a desecration of the

graves of six million Holocaust victims

if we didn't meet those Nazis face to

face and fight them

together again

you're going out yes

yes there's a meeting do you have to go

yes it's very important because they're

having a public forum at the at the

temple that's lawyer from the ACLU is

going to be there you know the smart one

I wouldn't want to be in his shoes

we're ready for him Max I don't want you

to go oh no don't start Berta I just

don't want to be alone again what to

learn Janet is here and I I will be home

11 o'clock anyway let someone else this

time I can't I was elected on the Sal

goldstein's committee for the Holocaust

Survivors

where's the roller for the lint and Pat

can you can do

a dog could keep them away

God's sake birthday oh I remember the

argument I I was a little girl how could

you know

it would have been a terrible thing to

just pull up everything and then and run

away from the Nazis my cousin Joseph and

my papa cousin Otto everyone saying wait

wait

don't be that bad

and and of course it was too late

and they are all dead

that is exactly why we should

this time I don't want to wait next

let's go go go go away I I want to go

shall we go we're in America we're we're

American citizens I don't care I just

want to go where do you want to go you

want to go to Israel no

no no no I I I I'd be afraid there are

bombs and then the terrorists and the

War I know terrible things are gonna

happen there too

you can't keep it down

even in Brahms it need a lead bro you

can hear them marching with their boots

I said don't get yourself started

Arabs

herbs all people killed and my mama took

me to my cousin's selfie in Breslin I

never saw her again or Papa leaves

are you getting everything mixed up in

one Mission the Nazis will march here

nobody can do nothing nothing nobody

could keep them away I want to go what

are you talking about go

go ahead

where should the Jew go to hide

they have to listen to me you hear

listen

there is no hiding place

I am here

and in Skokie we are not alone

there are Christians Jews everybody

together against the Nazis

we stay

let them go

you got to see

it's different this time it's different

what we do this time is we fight

you're right you're absolutely right

there is no question

if we

fought 30 40 years ago if we stood up

then and hollered no no

things would be different

but I tell you from the bottom of my

heart

it is not the Nazis I am afraid of

it's that feeling inside

to be helpless

like you couldn't move your hands or

your feet

like something was stuffed in your mouth

so you couldn't even scream

I wouldn't ever have that feeling again

if I knew I was to die

it makes me ashamed that feeling

Delta

you should come with me get out of the

house

don't stuff your ears with music

do something

then you wouldn't feel the shame

I

Max you go

I'll be all right

I'm fine

you go do what you have to do and just a

little tired you didn't eat

you're going to lie down and close your

eyes

that was the way to survive in the

concentration camp

don't let yourself fear nothing see

nothing be nothing make yourself such a

nothing that pain or no pain suffering

hunger eating was all the same to you

nothing

[Music]

for God's sake live live

what is the use of surviving if you

refuse to live stop it

leave her alone

[Music]

I'm late

already for the meeting I promised I

would be

thank you

all right I will be home 11 o'clock

mom

listen everything will be all right

it'll be okay they'll stop him

they won't come here no no no

one can do anything

no one could ever do anything

anyone who defends the murderers of Jews

is a murderer of Deuce himself young

lady they're always traitors ready to

sell out and Nazi garbage is not free

speech it's murder I'm going to ask you

to take it

please sit down or I'll have to ask the

police to sit you down

[Applause]

just let her take her seat never again

I want to remind every one of you that

this is a house of worship

and the talmudic tradition calls for a

calm and rational consideration of all

points of view with mutual respect

now I know that you will allow Mr

lewison to finish his presentation with

the proper courtesy please go ahead

the point I was trying to make was that

basically the Nazis are not the issue

what is the issue then the issue is the

web of laws enacted by the Village of

Skokie that prohibits free speech by

prior restraint thank you that's the

issue now throughout the years the

American civil liberties Union has

consistently defended the right this is

not the first time

[Applause]

the ACLU has consistently defended the

rights of all Americans by defending the

rights of the unpopular the radical and

as in this case

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

as the Corporation Council for the

Village of Skokie I'm dedicated to

taking every possible legal step to keep

Colin and his Nazis out of Skokie

on the 4th of July and forever

I should like to point out that in the

German federal republic since the war

any Nazi party is illegal and it is

forbidden to display the swastika why

should we be denied the same wise

protection right

[Applause]

I don't want to go into the legal points

that are now before the courts but I'm

prepared to argue them in the proper

place or with my good friend herb Lewis

I am interested in obeying the law and

in keeping the peace you want peace keep

the Nazis out

no matter what happens we must remain

calm we must respect the law and we must

keep the peace the hell we will you'll

be peaceful if the Nazis come here we're

gonna beat him into the ground

in the long run in the long run in the

long run the Jews will be dead never

again never again never again never

again ever again never again

as a representative of the national

office of the ACLU in New York who asked

Junior anyway

[Applause]

although we support the action of the

Chicago office personally

I take a slightly different stand I

don't necessarily believe that defense

of the first amendment has to be made

from some kind of pure philosophical

theoretical purpose I think it's a

practical political necessity

if we agree that

[Music]

if we agree that our purpose is to

defeat what Collins stands for to to

protect democracy against Nazism against

genocide

I say the most practical in fact the

only way

is to defend the First Amendment as our

strongest weapon let me ask you

who needs the protection of the Bill of

Rights the most

I'll tell you the week

the most vulnerable in the society if

speech if protest can be stifled by

government today the Village of Skokie

against the Nazis the same principle can

be used again tomorrow when others may

have the desperate need to cry out for

help and justice

Jews can't hide from Nazis in Skokie now

there's no doubt there is a danger in

letting the Nazis make their propaganda

somebody May believe them they may they

may grow

they may get more powerful there is a

danger in democracy itself but it is far

more dangerous to destroy the laws that

deny anyone the power to silence Jews if

it should come that they need to cry out

to each other and to the world for help

it is because Jews are vulnerable what

are you people talking about how can you

you are

so how can how can a Jew defend freedom

for Nazis

saying is Nazis must be free to speak

because Jews must be free to speak and

all others you're all the same all of

you Naya from civil liberties Rose in

for Mandy defamation always come

cool always so reasonable I said it to

Rosen I'm saying it to you that's what

they said about the Nazis in Germany

how many are there a handful what can

they hurt let them speak no no sir it is

not the same

free speech

was not protected in pre-hitler Germany

the Weimar government was afraid to

protect Free Speech the Nazis were

allowed to go into the streets and deny

others their rights there are hundreds

of political murders meetings of the

opposition were broken up and the

government took no action to control the

Nazis and maintain the law of free

speech for everyone and because they

could silence their opposition by Terror

by violence the Nazis could grow no

no sir the answer is to restrain the

abuse of raw power

with guaranteed Freedom listen Naya

I wouldn't argue Torah with the rabbi

I wouldn't owe you law with a lawyer a

professional but listen to what I have

to say

I lived it I know what I'm talking

if the day should come

when we are both forced by the the Nazis

to March into the same gas chamber on

that day you should be at the head of

the lion so you could holler smart

slogans for freedom of speech

freedom of speech for the murderers who

are pushing you into the oven

fact

sir

I came very close to dying in those gas

Chambers

I was born in Berlin

my mother

my father and I were able to leave

Germany only at the last minute 1939.

my extended family

grandparents

Aunts Uncles cousins are wiped out

they died in those gas Chambers at

Auschwitz

I escaped but in spite of that

no because of that I support First

Amendment rights

absolutely

I support free speech for everybody for

Nazis

I'm with Camille who said freedom is the

concern

or a protectors have always come from

among the UPS it's a matter of

self-interest

defending your enemy is the only way to

protect a free Society a against its

enemies

[Applause]

hello

I've died and you're desecrating their

graves terrific you're killing them over

again look uh harassment by phone is a

misdemeanor okay knock it off

[Applause]

[Music]

July 12 1977 Illinois Appellate Court

First District first division Village of

Skokie a municipal Corporation plaintiff

apelli National Socialist Party of

America at all defendants appellants the

swastika is a symbol which is inherently

likely to provoke a violent reaction

among those of the Jewish persuasion or

ancestry when intentionally brought into

close proximity to their homes and

places of worship this is especially

true for the thousands of Skokie

residents who personally survived the

Holocaust of the Third Reich so too the

tens of thousands of skokie's Jewish

residents must feel gross revulsion for

the swastika and would immediately

respond to the personally abusive

epithets slung their way in the form of

the defendant's chosen symbol the

swastika in summary the order of this

court is that the injunction as issued

by the Cook County Circuit Court is to

be modified removing the ban on uniforms

but leaving standing the ban on the use

of the offensive symbol the swastika

nevertheless we will March in full

uniform with the symbol of white

Christianity the swastika what about the

second case the Skokie Village

ordinances won't they still keep you

from marching We are continuing to

appeal all the restrictions to the

higher courts

I have no doubt we will win

I will March in Skokie

under the full protection of the law in

my full uniform with the swastika you

should live so long attorneys for the

American civil liberties Union

representing Colin and his Nazi would-be

Marchers were unavailable this afternoon

mayor Albert Smith of Skokie said he was

punished with the decision he said it

was heartening to the decent people of

Skokie where's Mom thank you Bill we

will continue our in-depth took out some

chat meat but it's still uh still frozen

I'll make some kind of [ __ ] in the

frying pan

[Music]

can you turn the television off

the news from the network is coming on

right away Cronkite maybe we'll say

something about Skokie

turn it down

I wanted to talk to you about the lake

I told you

Penny and Don and a bunch of the kids

are going to this place on the lake

there's a concert

you have to go to a lake somewhere for a

concert

side

there has been a lot of criticism by

this station and other media about the

sanitation conditions in certain South

Side neighborhoods Daddy it's an

editorial to point out the wpmr is

mistaken when they insinuate that the

garbage collections with boys yeah to

some of the kids we'd be back late

Sunday night overnight you're going to

sleep overnight well the concert won't

be over till late on Saturday night Mom

said it was okay if it was all right no

no no

in a house overnight with boys I'm not

gonna sleep with them I'm just gonna

please don't talk like that you're just

being unreasonable Janet I don't like

the idea of you riding around in cars

late at night with God knows who

you're a young girl you have plenty of

time well if that's what's bothering you

if I could drive then I could control

where the car went

Donna's sister's going to be there with

her husband it's going to be absolutely

nothing wait wait a minute concrete

could stop I have to call Penny and tell

her I don't want to talk about it you

don't want to talk about anything

headquarters

and you love it you love it because it

makes you important you wanted to go

I'm sorry I'm not dead I'm sorry I'm not

stacked up in piles like those corpses

in the picture I'm sorry I'm not dead

like Grandma I don't think I could be

important to you

laughs

sorry

sorry

baby

I can't suffer the way you did

tried

I tried to feel it

I tried to suffer for you and

for Mom

somehow it wouldn't be so bad for you

I just can't

I just can't it will be all right

because it will be all right no please

babe baby

okay bro you can go to the lake with

your friends and get your driver's

license it will be all right

you'll be like the others it will be

just like all the others

no

I never felt like the other

I always felt something different

I don't know

it's a long time I've had the kind of

feeling that things weren't happening to

me

that I didn't experience things for

myself

for you and Mom

and a lot of people I never really knew

who they were

sort of Shadows

we didn't wanted to touch you what

happened

what should a child

born in America have to do with that

suffering

but that was not possible

did

it wasn't just the Nazis coming to

Skokie

no

no no

it was long before

without saying the word

we handed it to you in silence

like the blessing Isaac gave to Jacob

but it was not a blessing

it was a curse

and

your mama

afraid to feel anything for herself

and be

sure I don't stay in bed all day and

listen to Brahms but

I stay in my office 10 12 14 hours a day

filling my head was

payrolls inventories

cut for bid I should sit quiet and think

so why am I afraid for you to grow up

for myself

I'm not afraid

that's a luxury that I learned to live

without in the camps

but I'm so afraid for you

survival they talk about

it's a rifle

you you

are my survival

where have you been

they're gonna start without us

look what just arrived

in the Circuit Court of Cook County Saul

Goldstein versus Frank Collins they've

made service bright before I left the

office that's why I'm late oh this is

great

this is just what we need a brand new

case to defend for Colin

Anti-Defamation League put a whole team

of lawyers on it they've invented a new

tart mint aside

oh that's catchy the idea is speech is

not the issue that the threat of the

appearance of the swastika and the Nazis

all by itself constitutes a kind of

assault on the survivors

a willful infliction of emotional harm

the process of resurrecting the

emotional and psychological response to

the original Holocaust creating mental

damage what are we supposed to do prove

that the survivors wouldn't have any

emotional pain this is ingenious

[Applause]

I think there may be a few holes in it I

certainly hope so

well the one thing that assumes that all

of the survivors would actually witness

the March

or if they argue they don't have to be

there in person then the mere fact that

there is a March constitutes the assault

then where do you draw the line what

about a March in Chicago

TV news film for March in New York

NBC is doing a big dramatic series on

the Holocaust would you enjoy that

because it might do psychological damage

to the survivors in Skokie I think it's

a pit the entire thing is offensive to

the whole concept of free expression

well it's easy for you to say you're not

Jewish

that's a rotten thing to say

sorry

I just got this picture of me standing

up in court

denying that there was any pain and

suffering in the whole Holocaust

I think it's getting to me

getting those telephone calls

yeah we have an unlisted number now

I think if we just argue that it's a

heck no I don't want to hear any more

about it we have a whole Ben benefit

dinner to sit through let's just not

think about it anymore tonight

Mr Johnson Mr C.L Johnson please pick up

the white courtesy phone in the lobby

Mr Bozeman Mr Bozeman please report

let's go upstairs

Sam farmer

I saw your name on the table list we met

at that same meeting about a year ago

I'm herb Lewis we were sitting with

Harry and Grace Pilcher

hello

hello how are things going

is that rhetorical well he had some

trouble over there

and people don't talk to me in toilets

still getting resignations yes some

got your new brief today I don't think

it's going to hold up who knows

I think it's a cheap shot why can't we

let the Court rule on the central issue

and stop putting up all these smoke

screens I think your problem is you

don't see the central issue the reality

of anti-Semitism oh God

did you ever read that book by that

Northwestern Professor who claims that

Hitler's murder of six million Jews

never happened it was a hoax yeah well

it's all over for one thing there's this

whole Palestinian thing there's a

worldwide explosion of anti-Semitic

propaganda paid for by various Arab

organizations you don't see that stuff I

do how the hell do you expect the

survivors in Skokie like Feldman to

appreciate your fine philosophical

nuances on the First Amendment my God

they suffered enough do they have to go

through it all over again what about

their human rights why don't you defend

that look I'm not going to argue with a

guy like Feldman I'm not going to try to

give him logic and fancy law on the

teeth of what he's been through but with

you it's a different story

when Max Feldman sees Colin in his

bloody uniform with his swastika he sees

his own past he sees the real

Stormtrooper the concentration can't

guard the the Jew killer it hits him he

reacts to it I have no argument with him

but you should be able to look at Colin

and see the present Politico and social

reality for a person dressed up in a

Nazi uniform in America is a

pathological irrelevance come on out now

don't underestimate the danger in this

country I am not underestimate I think

there's a danger in this country but it

sure as hell isn't a bunch of Americans

masquerading as secondhand Germans

you want to know what the American

equivalent of Nazism is racism

sure that's our big thing you're seeing

a hell of a lot more of that than

swastikas I'll tell you what's more

dangerous than Colin it's a bunch of

smug slippery politicians using Code

words reversing the whole drive for

civil rights

pushing in on racism that's what's

happening all over the country I know

that's why I'm here tonight but I am

primarily interested in the Safety and

Security of Jews yeah me too this Jew

right here

do you remember Huey Long's line if

fascism ever comes to America it'll come

under the name of americanism

the only defense for Jews for blacks for

anybody is freedom with the protection

of law each of us knows the other has

part of the truth but we still can't

agree well the Court's going to rule

tomorrow on the first case the original

injunction maybe that'll settle it

Supreme Court state of Illinois January

27 1978.

the display of the swastika as offensive

to the principles of a free Nation or

the memories it recalls may be

is symbolic political speech intended to

convey to the public

the beliefs of those who display it

it does not in our opinion fall within

the doctrine of fighting words

we do not doubt that the site of this

symbol is abhorrent to the Jewish

citizens of Skokie

and that the survivors of the Nazi

persecutions

tormented by the Recollections have

strong feelings regarding its display

yet it is entirely clear that this

Factor does not justify in joining the

defended speech

well it's a complete turnaround isn't it

the March can't be prohibited they can't

be banned from wearing their uniforms

and waving their swastikas around

well that's one

why don't I feel happy

with any luck it'll rain

yeah

hello

speaking

yes I remember you from Newsweek right

no I haven't the slightest idea where

you can find Frank Colin for comment

no why don't you try finding him

yourself

look I had the honor of representing him

in court I have no intention of acting

as his press agent

right

as a matter of fact I happen to know

where Frank Colin is yeah it's the one

bright spot with all the television

stations and newspaper men looking for

him to interview him

he's uh

stuck in the blizzard somewhere between

Saint Louis and Chicago maybe when the

federal court rules on the ordinances

he'll still be frozen stiff

federal court for the northern district

of Illinois February 1978. in this case

a small group of zealots openly

professing to be followers of Nazism

have succeeded in exacerbating the

emotions of a large segment of the

citizens of the Village of Skokie who

are bitterly opposed to their views and

revolted by the prospect of their public

appearance

decision they threw out every one of the

ordinances as unconstitutional Right

Down the Line for the First Amendment

they even quoted Oliver Wango homes

the principle of free thought not free

thought for those who agree with this

but freedom for the thought we hate

freedom of thought carries with it

freedom to speak and to publicly

assemble to express one's thoughts

it goes on

um it is better to allow those who

preach racial hate to expend their venom

in rhetoric rather than to be panicked

into the dangerous course of allowing

the government to decide what its

citizens must say in here pretty

sweeping yeah what about that third one

the mental side thing

oh uh they threw that out of the lower

court

and even if they appeal it there isn't

much of a chance if they're using it to

get an injunction

this is it

then it's over

no it isn't

now there's nothing to stop the Nazis

from marching our enemy has run out of

Jew tricks to stop us and I am

announcing today that the National

Socialist Party of America will carry

the Nazi swastika flag in Skokie on

April 20th

the birthday of Adolf Hitler Governor

Thompson says he'll be here in Skokie to

attend the counter demonstration Senator

Percy has made a speech to the Senate

calling for a massive counter rally now

um ladies and gentlemen I'm not at all

worried about how the people of Skokie

will respond because I remember one

freezing cold day when hundreds of

Skokie citizens Christians and Jews

alike came to an outdoor meeting and we

were all wearing uh the armbands with

the yellow stars to show how we stood

together against the Nazis so if they

March we'll be there

what does worry me is that even though I

know our people are peaceful I can't

vouch for the peaceful intentions of

others who may attend

now every

every effort is being made to keep the

peace and death ow will you excuse me a

minute

excuse me I'll be right back

as the mayor said we've been in touch

with the state police of course we're

mobilizing the entire series

our major concern is of course the

safety of the citizens what is it I just

got a call from downtown

he's made a deal oh Colin it's one of

those package things

Chicago Park District he gets a permit

to demonstrate in Marquette Park

and he cancels Skokie that's straight I

just got it from Chicago City Hall

that's all

he had us running in circles for a year

and a half

you mean

that's it he's canceled

and that's the way it ends just like

that it's over

it's all over

what a waste of time and energy

and what did anybody get out of it all I

don't know I guess it depends on who you

are

you know the truth I never wanted to

march in that Jew town anyway

but I was on television

in Chicago and on the national networks

for a whole year

Millions

millions of people saw me and heard what

I had to say

and I won

I beat the Jews

could have marched if I wanted to

I just changed my strategy

we had our rally in Chicago today

only 12 people showed up but

I have faith

people are getting fed up with the Jew

government giving everything to the

[ __ ]

you show me somebody who feels that way

and I'll show you a potential Nazi

it turned out to be a good thing of

course I don't mean that anything about

the Nazis can be really good but in

terms of public awareness of the history

of Nazism there is a compensating game

you know a whole generation has grown up

that wasn't even born at the time of

Hitler and this whole world conflict

between Israel and the Arab Nations has

resulted in a Resurgence of

anti-semitism

now we of the Anti-Defamation League

feel that a time may come when we will

see actual violence break out against

Jews blacks other minorities and not

just vandalism but bombings and murders

when this happens we may wonder what

price we've paid for the purity of

freedom of speech

at least the Skokie experience can be a

warning a reminder that the Holocaust

must never happen again

I think there should have been some way

to keep the Nazis out of Skokie but I

don't think I I can feel about it the

way my father does

and the others

I've tried

sometimes I still feel guilty like I

have some kind of obligation to their

suffering

but I can't

I do

feel different

like I was in two different worlds

sometimes I don't know who I am

sometimes I get mad and say I don't even

want to think about it

but I do

I'm glad I'm alive

but I just can't carry it all

I mean why should I be the one who has

to carry everything

sometimes I feel like it's not fair to

me

it's crazy isn't it

I mean

I'm the lucky one

when you think about it

well I'm glad as hell it's over

the ACLU really took a beating I mean

we didn't quite anticipate

but we put in a lot of work now

explaining to our membership why we did

what we did and we're coming back

slowly

for me personally it was very painful

the people who hate me the most today

for what I did who actually think of me

as a devil of some kind

those are my people

they're just like my aunts and uncles

and people I really care for and never

stop caring for throughout this whole

thing

and they still keep asking me why

why did you defend a Nazi well

it's always the despised and the

unpopular who are the first victims of

Oppression

ask the Jews

I mean if I waited around till all the

nice respectable people were my clients

it would be too damn late no no no

the test of a democracy is not just at

the majority rules but that the power of

the government is limited by freedom and

the first place you got to go out and

defend that freedom is the first place

it's under attack

it's over now

so we lost in the course

those bastards have got free speech they

can go everywhere and say that they

should kill Jews

well

let me tell you something

we lost huh

did they March

nothing Skokie not one inch

do you know why not

because this time

this time we stood up and we fought them

right back

and we told our story to the whole world

we were Witnesses

we made them know how it happened that

such things do happen in the world

and the world lets it

I asked myself

why did I live

why did God let me live

you can't help it you ask over and over

I will tell you a true story

I I remember in the camps an old man was

praying

in Yiddish not even Hebrew

and he said God

let somebody live to be a witness

so that's why

to be a witness

to tell the truth to stand up to be able

to fight back

my little girl said to me oh

she she was mad she didn't know what she

was saying

she said I enjoyed it

but that's not true

well

Maybe

because this time I stood on my feet

and I showed them

I remember

when my mother was going to her death

and they said there's nothing you can do

nothing you can do

well this time there was

this time they couldn't wipe their feet

on me

this time they couldn't spit on me

this time

they couldn't kill me

[Music]

foreign

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[Applause]

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what's up

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