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Thanks for tuning in today. I'm Niala Boodhoo,

and my guest is Jacob Malco.

He's the creator of three graphic novels.

His newest, Obscurity, is just out.

Jacob, when you look at what happened between your first book, Conjugality,

being such a success, being made into a movie,

following that up with Infidelity,

and the actual infidelity that happened in your life,

I wonder how you feel like that affected your work.

Yeah, the love story of Conjugality was... was compelling and sweet,

and it... and it was real. It was a real thing.

And meeting somebody else...

I don't know how that happens, but it happens to a lot of people,

I'm not unusual in that, and the infidelity was what it was,

but I did honor that love.

Yeah, I left my first wife, and I went with somebody else,

but that's, you know, that happens, you know, so...

Well, I think it happens. I think most people don't write about it,

so I wonder... And you're talking about how it affected people.

Do you talk to your first wife or how did she feel about it?

- I don't talk to either of them. - So...

I don't... you know, I don't have kids,

so I think that makes it easier not to talk to them.

It's not really my choice. Yeah, obviously, you know, the, uh...

the first wife don't want to have anything to do with me,

and, uh, the second one, I don't know, you know.

So no feedback on how they've been portrayed in your works?

Yeah, there's been feedback.

Uh... it's a price you pay, you know, I mean...

I write about myself. I don't know, really, how else to do it.

My life is really the... where... the source of my...

my creativity and what happens in my life, so...

it's had effect on people in my life, it does,

and, uh, I mean, I can take responsibility to a certain degree,

but, uh, I... I guess they, you know...

Well, they certainly know goin' in now...

whoever might... might choose to do that.

Well, and that's what, Jacob, I mean, that brings us to Obscurity and...

I mean, you have to ask... I have to ask about the title.

I mean, is that, you think, a reflection of where you're at right now?

Well, you know, you...

At some point when you're an artist of any kind, you know,

you want to be relevant, so when you feel that slipping away...

it's a little... sad.

and it's a little... frustrating,

and also scary, you know.

So... so, I don't know...

You know, I don't...

What was the question again?

Hi.

- Hey, Angie, what's happenin'? - Hi, Jacob.

- You look pretty. - Thank you.

Have you ever, uh, been to this place before?

Nope. Have you?

Yeah, I love this place. They have, uh, good pizza,

they make a really good, um, salad.

I don't remember what it's called.

Do you want to take your coat off and stay a while,

- or what are we... - No, I don't think so.

I don't... I think I'm okay with my coat on.

Oh, no.

- What happened? What's happening? - I read the... I read the comic.

The new book. You read my book.

- I read your book. Yes. - Okay.

And how was that? Did you like it?

Of course, I'm, you know, I...

Just so you know, I would prefer that I wasn't involved

in any future work of yours.

- Okay. I... - Does that seem fair to you?

No, I understand what you're saying. I don't... I don't know if it's fair,

if that's the word, but like...

It's kind of... It's a little negotiable at this point.

It's negotiable.

- I don't have to use you... - Great.

Just wait. Just hear me out. I don't have to use your real name.

Oh. Yeah, I just don't...

- How bad is that? - I don't think that's...

Right?

I... I think this is it. I think this is it.

I think... I think I need to go.

Okay.

- I need to go. - All right.

- Good luck with your comics. - Thank you.

- Good luck. - Yes. Have a good thing.

Hey.

- Hi. - Is she coming back?

I don't think she is coming back.

It's okay.

Would you like a menu?

Yeah, I'm hungry. Just... You can just set it down.

- I'll look at it in a second. - Okay. I'll be right back.

- Thank you so much. - Mmm-hmm.

- Hey, handsome. - Hi.

- Hi. - How's it goin'?

- It's going good. - I was lost there.

Mmm-hmm. Want anything else?

Um, no, I think I'm good. I'm just gonna drink coffee.

All right, let me know if you need anything.

- All right. Okay, thanks. - Okay.

♪ All is calm ♪

♪ All is bright ♪

♪ Round yon virgin, mother and child ♪

How many people are in there, man?

It's not full, but, um, the people that are here are here to see you,

- just so you know. I mean... - God, I don't get it, man, I don't get it.

Really?

The book just came out. I mean, I used to be able to fill the auditorium.

I don't get it.

Yeah.

I mean, I know that, like, okay, it's been, like, a long time

since I put somethin' out and now I got nobody? I got nobody?

Well, it's not nobody. There's... there's people here.

There's... I think there's just not...

It's not, as I say, not filled.

- Did you read the book? - I did, I loved it.

Did you read what The Reader said about the book?

- Forget the... - Did you read it?

- I did. - Did you see?

What is... Who is that guy?

- Who is that guy? Do you... - Doesn't matter.

- Have you read that guy? - Here's what you should...

When did... Let me just ask you a question.

When did snark just take over cultural...

- I mean, who... What are they, 12? - I don't know.

- Yeah, they're children. I don't... - I'm sorry, man.

I don't know when that happened,

but also... And don't be mad at the people who are here

because you're mad at the ones who didn't show up.

Just remember that. It's not their fault the other people aren't here.

That's good advice but I don't know what's gonna happen.

Is there someplace where I can take my coat off?

- Sure. You can go in my office. - Where is that?

Um...

just take it downstairs and...

I have to take an elevator?

You don't have to.

"Keen observations and bold poignancy fill Mr. Malco's most recent novel Obscurity,"

which just came out this week.

"It's also been said Mr. Malco is a writer who knows how to keep his readers rapt

by recounting episodes of his life with such specific immediacy

and vivid emotional recall

that we experience his distress as our own."

Quite a compliment. Uh... "Critics and readers alike both adore and... "

You know what, Dave, listen.

Dave, Dave, Dave, you know what? Let's just...

"Often in the same paragraph."

No, let's just scrap the formality.

I mean, come on.

Uh, hi. Thank you for coming. Ivan, what's up, buddy?

Justin. Is that Spencer?

Jacob Malco.

Why don't we just, um...

hang out, go somewhere and hang out. I'll answer questions, I'll talk.

I just... The lack of irony

between this event and the title of my new book is just

too much for me to handle right now.

Right. So, uh, can we do that?

More importantly, is, um...

can we just do that, 'cause it's like...

Two questions. If we do that, can I still get paid,

and can we just do that?

Dave? Can we just go to a... It would be fun, right?

And I guess we could open this up to, uh, after the bottles are done,

we could open it to question and answer.

Really? Are we really gonna do like the...

- Have to do a little something. - All right, I have a question.

Yes, young lady up front.

- What's... What's your name? - Uh, Alison.

Hi, Alison.

Yeah, nice to meet you, um, Jacob? Can I call you...

- Or is that too informal? - Jacob. Jake is fine.

- Yeah, no, no, no. Uh, it's fine. - I want to stay to the structure.

- Yeah. No. - Okay.

- Jake is good. Yeah. - Okay, cool.

Um, I mean, your first book is so romantic and...

Yeah.

- Look how that turned out. - ...like, positive. I mean...

- Yeah. - ...was that an honest...

- you know... - Yeah. I mean...

The question was about the first book being romantic and positive.

- I'm a romantic, yeah. - Did you... I...

Yeah, we can hear.

- All right. - Yeah. Okay.

I just... I'm trying to honor the format, Dave.

All right.

Can't a guy... All right.

I don't know...

Yeah, it was honest, but, you know, I...

You know, was I being honest with myself?

I think there's an argument to say no, because the second book,

I ended up meeting somebody else so was that love real?

Was that romance real? It was. Did it ultimately sustain? No.

So, yeah, it was a happy story that... from a period of my life

that, uh, you know, didn't, uh, didn't remain.

But, yeah, I think it was honest.

And is, um, is Melanie in your third book?

Is she in Obscurity or...

She's not even in my phone.

- Ah. Thank you. - No problem.

- Great. Alexandra, right? - Mmm-hmm.

So, uh, I am, uh, officially tired of, uh, talking about myself.

Well, that took a while.

Oh, very clever.

- No, I enjoyed it all. - Uh-huh. Oh, yeah.

- That's very nice of you. - That's why I'm here.

You guys, you're all in graduate school,

you're in the graduate program over there?

- Yeah, yeah. - You're artists, right?

- Mmm-hmm. - And you do, you do...

You're a photographer? You're photographers.

I do video, motion.

Okay, so you do... you take pictures of yourself with your phones?

Yeah. Yeah, I'm a... I use a selfie stick and, um, a phone.

- Last call, all right? - We're doin' it?

- Are you sure? - We're all doin' it.

- We're all doin' it. - It's already last call?

- Four shots. - Last call. Four shots?

- Yeah. He's payin'. - What can I get you?

- Really? - Yeah, we got it.

- Okay. - This guy's gettin' it.

Four shots? Oh, my God. He's on the one.

No whiskey? All right, pick. What's it gonna be?

- Tequila. It's always tequila. - Tequila.

Tequila shots? Patron?

- Oh, no. - Yes, thank you.

- You got it. - To Obscurity.

The book. Not... not real. I...

- Oh, all right. - Here we go.

Oh.

Hey, Jake,

do you mind if I use your charger? For my phone, right here?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, do... What is... Is it the right kind?

I feel like my phone's old.

Thank God you guys came to that thing.

Right?

Thank you. A toast to you for showing up at that thing,

- that could have been fuckin' tragic. - Hmm.

Thank you for, uh, going through with it.

Yeah. Can you imagine if I was

just sitting there talking with those dudes...

- Oh, my God. - There it is.

I think, like, uh, those are the only few copies available. Uh...

Can we have?

- That's it. - Can we...

- That's the whole... - Yes, you can... Yeah, sure, you...

- Hey, it looks beautiful. - Thank you so much. Mmm-hmm.

You watch things broken down by movements, right?

Like what we were just talking about, that's how they break them down.

- Fine. - Well, we are part of a movement.

What's the movement called?

I mean, it's whatever you want to call it, but it's...

That doesn't sound like an organized movement to me.

Doesn't have to be organized.

- Okay, fine. - Yeah, a lot of movements

haven't been organized. This isn't political.

- Alexandra? - Dra.

You're much more close-minded than I expected.

I thought we would bond over some of our... our ideas.

Okay, self-portraiture is different than selfie art.

No, it's not.

This is probably half of my next book.

- See? - Is that too much?

You take everything from your life.

Exactly. So you got a problem with that?

- You got a problem with being in the... - No, we do the exact same thing

- but you, um... - But what if you were gonna be in the book

and I don't represent you the way you like?

That's fine by me.

- Really? - Yeah.

Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me?

- Maybe. - Really?

We'll see.

Karen was sweet, I don't, what am I gonna do to Melanie, probably?

Lots of people are friends with their exes.

Yeah, that's a generational thing. I think sometimes...

- I still have sex with my ex. - Am I in your art?

- Yeah. - Oh.

But that doesn't seem very provocative.

Oh, fuck off. You haven't seen it yet.

I'm not... Okay. Let's do it.

I have a flier because we printed them.

- Oh. Great. - Daniel Sinks, different forms.

It's called "Green Light."

Are you gonna look at us and tell us you're coming?

You gonna tell us?

- You gonna promise? - I'm coming to the show.

- Okay. - I'm coming to the show.

- Okay. - All right.

- Man of your word. - All right.

- All right, thanks again. - Yeah, see you later.

- It's a pleasure. - Okay.

Wait. What about... Wait, are you gonna wait for her?

- Out there? - Oh.

No, she'll come meet us at home soon.

- Yeah, she's good. - Really?

Yeah, she's good. She's having a nice time.

- Okay. - We're tired. We got up early.

- Yeah. - All right.

- Bye. Goodnight. - Goodnight. Just slam the door.

All right. We will.

- Hey. - Hi.

Uh, your friends took off.

I know.

What?

No?

Okay.

Yeah?

Hello?

Alison?

- Hello? - Fuck...

Dude, open the door, I'm freezin'!

My God.

Hello.

- Jonesy. - Oh, my God.

This guy just walked right into me. Right in...

Jonesy.

Uh, first... and then...

Help me.

- I don't think I... - I did. I brought coffee.

Oh. Back up. I already made some.

Oh, my God, I don't think I can move.

I don't think we're going to brunch.

- That's good. Yeah. Look in the fridge. - Mmm-hmm.

There's probably plenty in there.

I've got a little thing.

What?

I, um... I'm not gonna say

- that, like, I'm in love or anything. - Hmm.

I just... I'm not gonna...

I don't have to tell you about it.

No, you don't. Can we talk about something else?

The one liked me because she likes my autobiographical work.

She likes that I do work about myself.

- She likes that you're famous. Go on. - But she's also...

No, she loves that you're famous. Go on.

She sees herself as an autobiographical artist.

And so she's connecting with me. I understand the famous...

- I'm not that famous. - Oh, you're both... you're both...

- Okay. Oh, okay. Yeah. - Yeah. Memoirists or whatever, we...

But how old is she?

- And I'm not judging, I know... - Twenty-four.

Yeah, good for you. And really beautiful, right?

- Your hair looks good. - No, but it's, like, really...

- Really... - Your hair looks good.

- You're just letting it be, right? - I don't... Can we...

Honestly, you're doing a monologue at all times.

And then every once in a while...

do you just... See, now you're listening.

But, like, I could say nice things to you, like,

"Do you know how green your eyes are? Is it the shirt?

What's happenin'?"

"Last night, I met this sexy young selfie artist,

and I'm psyched because maybe I'm gonna fuck her brains out."

You know? Like, did you already do that?

Yeah.

- Was it good? Was it good? - I did it.

- I'm pretty sure it was good. - Okay.

- I was like... I worked. Hard. - But it's...

All right!

I mean, I really do think we should, uh, just consider...

We could adopt a kid.

But we don't have to be romantically involved, maybe.

- Well, how about... - And I'm not saying I know that will work,

I'm just saying we wonder about that.

Okay, how about you adopt a kid and you call me and you're like, "It's here."

"Come over and see it."

Here you go, Jacob.

- Black, just the way you like it. - Yeah. Thank you.

I think I should probably just live here at some point.

- Right? - You're more than welcome.

Nah. Thank you.

- Yay! - Holy shit!

- When did it get cold? - Right. It's freezing.

- Is this it? I lost the invitation. - Yes. Come. Come on!

I had to look at my text that I sent you. All right. Let's go.

Do you want a beer? I'm gonna go get soda.

- No, no. I don't - Okay. I'll be back.

- Hey, man. - I'm a really big fan.

I just started reading Obscurity. I'm such a fan of your work.

- Thanks. I appreciate that. - Thanks for everything you do.

- That's great. Thank you. - Jacob. Jacob.

Over here. You gotta see these.

- Yeah? - Yeah, they're amazing.

Oh, that's her.

Like, I love, like, this whole...

Yeah.

Men's underpants. They're probably that guy's.

- Looks great. Look at her. - That's not a man.

It's incredible, the thing...

- But this one's my favorite. - Okay. Oh, shit!

What the fuck?

It's my favorite one.

That's my ass.

- That's me. - I know. That's the side of...

- It's your flank. But... - God damn it, what is she doing?

- Why did she do that? - Stop, don't. Honestly, it's beautiful.

No, but it's not right. I want it taken down.

No, but just put your... put your arms down.

- What? - Hi, Jacob, how are ya?

- Oh, hey. - Hi, Dave. You know Dave.

Oh, no, we've met. Yeah, hi.

- Right. How are ya? It's... - Oh, Annabelle Jones.

I want that taken down, I think.

It's not up to me, this is part of the department's. This is...

Okay, I'm gonna go get a beer. I'll see you guys.

This is a student of the department.

I know. I know who she is.

- You were a guest of the department. - I mean... Yeah, yeah.

- This is bad for the department. - I got other problems, man.

I threw you a bone and this is how you repay...

I'm up for tenure, do you understand?

Look, I didn't... You didn't fuck her, I fucked her.

She's not gonna fuck your tenure up. It's my ass on the wall.

What do you think... She's a grownup.

What is she, you think she's gonna call her daddy?

- What are you, her daddy? - This has become

my problem, there's evidence that you did...

Dude, dude, dude.

- Don't call me "dude." - What the fuck?

- You're a fuckin' cartoon. - Wait. Oh, really?

What are you, Professor? Fucking loser. What is she...

- Jake! Jake. - Hi.

Hi, how are you?

I'm fine, but what is... what is that?

I didn't know you were taking that. You can't just...

I just wanted to say congratulations.

- Hi. Oh. - I'm Annabelle.

- Alison. Nice to meet you. - Okay.

Annabelle Jones. Beautiful work. Congratulations.

Annie, can I talk to her for a second?

- Well, I... She's having a show. - Can I talk to her for a second?

- Can I talk to her for a second? - And I wanted to...

Sure. Knock yourself out.

That's not right. You can't just put my...

It's like date rape. It's like a roofie picture.

It's like date rape?

- It is kind of, isn't it? - So, I guess you don't like the work?

Calm down.

I'm not gonna calm down. Like, my ass is hanging out.

You didn't ask me if that...

That's my house, you were in there, I was sleeping.

I didn't know you were taking that picture.

- That's just rude. What does it mean? - Let me ask you a question.

Did you draw me?

- Yeah, I drew you. - Oh.

- But I didn't put it up. - Did you ask me?

I didn't tweet it, I didn't put it on what, I...

- Did you ask me permission? - No, but I didn't do anything with it.

So, it might end up in a book, right?

- Yeah, but it's gonna end up... - Maybe 12 years later,

- but eventually. - That's not the point.

What does that mean? There's no story to that.

That's just sort of like, "Look, I fucked this guy and he's sleeping."

There's completely story, this is my life.

Look at this... that old guy. No, no, I mean, how many are there?

You have a whole phone full of this shit?

Are you trying to slut shame me now?

No, I'm not trying to slut shame you. Why didn't you return my text?

- My privacy is public. - Yeah, but mine isn't.

Uh, I don't think that's true.

- What do you... - I think privacy is dead,

and you were one of the first people to do that.

No. Oh, well, that's very flattering, but, you know,

I think that's not the same fuckin' thing.

Is that my privacy, when I... What are you doing, Andrew?

- Keep the passion. - Is this your art?

- Keep the passion. I love it. - Is this your art?

Keep the passion? Are you out of your fucking mind?

Okay, why don't you just calm down for a second?

Why don't you go live a real life?

- There it is. - What is... what is that?

I know what you're gonna do with that.

What is that, click bait?

- Oh, my God. - Is that... is that what you...

- This is what you do? - Don't touch the work.

Is it about the clicks? Is that what determines your art?

- Why don't you get a fuckin' job? - This is my job.

Really? Is it? How's that going? You makin' a livin'? Where's the...

Listen.

What is this shit? What are you, fucking zombies?

Is this funny to you?

You know what's really ironic is that none of you have a point of view,

but it's all the same fuckin' point of view.

There's no depth to what you're doing.

You're as deep as your arm's length to your fucking camera.

Jacob, why don't you calm down?

This is ridiculous. These are like the...

I know what you're gonna do with it.

So what, I'm gonna be on

- the Internet tomorrow? - Okay, ta-da!

This means nothing, and it's gonna last forever.

Congratulations.

No depth to it. Just wait a second. Here's how deep you are.

Here's to your camera, to your fucking dumb head.

- God damn it. - When you're not taking selfies,

you're feeding off someone who's having a real life.

- Anyway, great. Ta-da! - Good night.

Whether there's three people,

there could be 300, 30 people, it doesn't matter.

- Ah, I just can't. - Just talk...

Just say what you want to say.

No, I'm not gonna... I... There's like...

If there's, like, three people, I don't...

Hey, Mr. Malco. It's gonna be about five minutes.

- Can I get you... - Five... Hey.

If there's, like, three people out there,

can I just sign books and maybe talk to them individually,

and just leave?

Uh, no, it's... We're full.

Um, we had to borrow some chairs from next door, actually.

That's hilarious. I'm serious, though, if there's, like, five people...

Uh, seriously, there's, like, 50 or 60 people out there.

- Really? - Thank you, Mike.

- So, yeah, it's a good turnout. - Mike, right?

- Yeah, I'm Mike. - Annabelle. Thanks, Mike.

- Hey. Yeah, sure. - Yeah, there are 50 people.

- Thanks. Thank you. - Mmm-hmm. You need anything? I'm...

- No, thanks. - Not right now.

- Okay. - Thanks.

- Mmm-hmm. - Fifty.

- I just... - Good evening, everybody.

I'd like to thank everyone for coming out to our winter reading series.

Uh, it's nice to see such a great turnout.

We have a very special guest tonight, uh, Jacob Malco.

He's a local Chicago graphic novelist.

Uh, he's gonna be reading from his new book, Obscurity.

So let's give him a warm welcome.

Thanks, Mike.

Hi. How's everyone doin'?

Good.

I'm, uh, Jacob Malco, and, uh...

I don't... I don't want to just read.

I have a... I have a feeling that some of you are here...

Most of you are probably not here 'cause you even know who I am, right?

I'm just, uh, the angry guy from the video, right?

How many people saw the video?

Wow. Great.

Well, I write graphic novels,

but we don't have to talk about that right now,

'cause I feel like you're expecting something else.

And, um...

let's just address that.

Do you have any questions?

What's up?

Do you really think my generation's just a bunch of vapid idiots?

No, I mean, that was said in anger.

Look, I watched that thing, I'm not proud of it, but I had...

I think I was trying to make a point about, uh...

I was personally upset about some art work,

and then I turned around and there's 20, 30 people with iPhones

taking essentially the same...

piece of footage.

If you were to look at that in that moment,

just turn around and spontaneously

20 people with iPhones taping you, that's pretty vapid.

So, maybe it was just a reaction to that.

Yes?

Uh, I'm curious if the artist who you slut shamed in the video

has had any response to the tirade?

No.

But she's here.

Alison is here. You want to come up and,

you know, and address the... You want to make a comment?

Are you inviting me?

Yes, I'm inviting you.

- Okay. - Please come up and let's try to...

Hey.

Hi, guys.

Um...

So to give some context for the video, um, we were at my grad show,

um, I make work that's not dissimilar to Jacob's.

Um... I use myself and my personal life

and as a narrative and, um... to bring up important ideas.

Um, he uses a pen and paper and I use a selfie stick and an iPhone.

Right, but I mean, he... Here's the...

here's the other context, is that...

we had, um,

we had slept with each other and I was asleep.

- I was asleep and... - See, like,

that's really personal, and you didn't ask me

if you could share that with everyone, so...

Yeah, but I'm... This is not the art,

I mean, I'm trying to get the proper...

What was the problem...

Well, you know, it was jarring, you know.

- I'm going to see this... Like, we... - Right, but even now,

you know, we're standing in front of all these people

- and you're not jarred... - Like, I feel a little disrespected.

A little blindsided.

All right.

That was fun.

You know, it was.

It was... it was really fun. I thought it was engaging.

I think it was... We're a good team.

Cheers to that.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, it was, uh... That was... that was amazing. That was great.

That was a book signing that turned into, like,

one of the best discussions I've had...

- in the last two years. - It...

And I'm in grad school, so...

You know what I mean?

- That's not nothin'. - I, uh...

- Well, or maybe it says something... - Oh, my God.

- ...about grad school, but... - Let me just say this, though,

uh, 'cause I don't want to forget.

The... I, um...

I am sorry...

- Oh. - ...about...

I didn't expect that.

...about, you know, making a scene at your big night.

- And... I like the work. - Honestly, I have to tell you...

- Listen to me. I like the work. - Okay, okay. I'm sorry.

I like the work.

You know, I was just...

I think it was more of a personal issue.

As it turns out.

I'm... you know, I'm stubborn, but I'm an open-minded guy.

And... and I think that really what it was about was...

Well, let me say something first

- to that point. - All right, all right.

Honestly, like, that is what I would...

I couldn't have imagined... Like, I could have paid someone

to come in and do and say what you said as a performance art piece.

- I mean, this has, like, been... - Well, it is now.

Like, who has a grad show and then gets a viral video out of it

and then a great book signing and, like, all this conversation.

- I don't know. - All right. All right.

So I'm just saying, like...

Art and life, right? No... no difference, right?

- Yeah. - Oh, my God.

Hey. Hey!

- What? - Cheers.

Oh, this is the greatest horrible thing to ever happened to me.

So, uh, before we go,

I know you've gotta go,

um, but I want to just ask you one more question that might be weird.

So, happy to turn this off or not, you know.

And I... I don't wanna, again, embarrass you here, but the...

I have to ask you about this, the... the video.

- You can turn that on. - Are you sure?

- Mmm-hmm. - Okay. 'Cause it...

All right, but I'm not trying to get you or anything like that, I'm not gonna...

- On the record. - So you, yeah...

Yeah, the video was, you know, embarrassing.

- Uh-huh. - And when I first watched it,

I was like, ugh.

But it was... it was weird 'cause when...

- when I was losing it in that rage... - Mmm-hmm.

And I don't know if you're a rage guy but, you know,

- you don't have much control over it... - Yeah.

...when you're in it.

But even when I was in it and I saw all those cameras,

I'm like, I know what's gonna happen with this.

- I dramatically lost my shit... - Mmm-hmm.

...in a public space with a lot of cameras,

and I knew something would happen,

but I certainly didn't know that it would get the...

the traction that it got.

I mean, I don't know if it's...

Certainly, I'm not one for...

- for adages... - Mmm-hmm.

...that, "No publicity is bad publicity," is that it?

But, look, I look like an asshole,

but I did say a few things I thought that I could get behind.

It's a little bit embarrassing, but, uh...

but, you know, I think we're selling a few books.