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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:01:02,493 --> 00:01:04,287 Nobody joins a cult. 2 00:01:04,365 --> 00:01:07,056 Nobody joins something they think is going to hurt them. 3 00:01:07,977 --> 00:01:12,094 You join a religious organization, you join a political movement, 4 00:01:12,150 --> 00:01:15,461 and you join with people that you really like. 5 00:01:17,255 --> 00:01:20,625 I think in everything that I tell you about Jim Jones, 6 00:01:20,626 --> 00:01:22,126 there is going to be a paradox. 7 00:01:22,172 --> 00:01:25,460 Having this vision to change the world, 8 00:01:25,461 --> 00:01:28,861 but having this whole undercurrent of dysfunction 9 00:01:29,521 --> 00:01:31,975 that was underneath that vision. 10 00:01:32,065 --> 00:01:35,575 Some people see a great deal of God in my body. 11 00:01:35,656 --> 00:01:39,724 They see Christ in me, a hope of glory. 12 00:01:40,109 --> 00:01:43,743 He said, �If you see me as your friend, I�ll be your friend. 13 00:01:43,818 --> 00:01:46,752 As you see me as your father, I�ll be your father.� 14 00:01:46,807 --> 00:01:51,084 He said, �If you see me as your God, I�ll be your God.� 15 00:01:52,762 --> 00:01:55,853 Jim Jones talked about going to the Promised Land 16 00:01:55,942 --> 00:02:00,887 and then, pretty soon, we were seeing film footage of Jonestown. 17 00:02:00,963 --> 00:02:04,348 Rice, black-eyed peas, Kool-Aid. 18 00:02:04,436 --> 00:02:07,143 We all wanted to go. I wanted to go. 19 00:02:08,803 --> 00:02:14,237 Peoples Temple truly had the potential to be something big 20 00:02:14,353 --> 00:02:16,971 and powerful and great, 21 00:02:17,054 --> 00:02:22,018 and yet for whatever reason, Jim took the other road. 22 00:02:24,645 --> 00:02:28,880 On the night of the 17th, it was still a vibrant community. 23 00:02:29,528 --> 00:02:35,414 I would never have imagined that 24 hours later, they would all be dead. 24 00:02:36,551 --> 00:02:41,515 Die with a degree of dignity! Don�t lay down with tears and agony! 25 00:02:41,881 --> 00:02:45,390 It�s nothing to death. It�s just stepping over into another plane. 26 00:02:45,485 --> 00:02:47,698 Don�t, don�t be this way. 27 00:02:57,509 --> 00:03:01,711 I vividly remember the first time that I met Jim Jones. 28 00:03:01,948 --> 00:03:05,346 My sister Carolyn had invited my parents 29 00:03:05,431 --> 00:03:08,650 and my younger sister and I to visit her in Potter Valley. 30 00:03:08,713 --> 00:03:13,044 We came and there was this strange man in her house, 31 00:03:13,095 --> 00:03:14,734 and her husband wasn�t there. 32 00:03:14,790 --> 00:03:17,707 Annie and I were sent out to go on a walk. 33 00:03:17,820 --> 00:03:19,586 When we came back, 34 00:03:19,701 --> 00:03:24,061 something had happened. Something terrible had happened, 35 00:03:24,127 --> 00:03:27,884 because everyone had red eyes except for Jim Jones. 36 00:03:28,548 --> 00:03:33,454 We didn�t really get the story until we were in the car going home. 37 00:03:33,533 --> 00:03:38,183 He was carrying on an adulterous relationship with my sister. 38 00:03:38,256 --> 00:03:43,155 And because his wife couldn�t relate to him as a wife... 39 00:03:43,193 --> 00:03:45,442 that Carolyn had taken over that role. 40 00:03:45,503 --> 00:03:49,269 Everything was plausible, except in retrospect, 41 00:03:49,270 --> 00:03:52,017 the whole thing seems absolutely bizarre. 42 00:04:07,390 --> 00:04:10,143 The first time I visited Peoples Temple, 43 00:04:10,221 --> 00:04:15,842 I drove at the urging of a friend, a co-worker, to Redwood Valley. 44 00:04:18,749 --> 00:04:22,648 We all got suited down, neck-tied and everything. 45 00:04:22,649 --> 00:04:24,649 You know, and we were sharp. 46 00:04:24,702 --> 00:04:30,205 As soon as I walked into the San Francisco temple, I was home. 47 00:04:36,761 --> 00:04:40,939 I was one of those kind of guys... that I used drugs. 48 00:04:41,026 --> 00:04:44,563 I was an alcoholic. I drunk alcohol and stuff like that. 49 00:04:44,635 --> 00:04:49,526 And... and all these people that were like my age, 50 00:04:49,527 --> 00:04:51,827 they were clean. 51 00:04:51,927 --> 00:04:55,167 Before I came here, I was taking�LSD, marijuana, 52 00:04:55,248 --> 00:04:57,414 every type of dope you can imagine. 53 00:04:57,473 --> 00:05:00,501 Without our pastor, Jim Jones, to teach me the right way, 54 00:05:00,502 --> 00:05:02,528 I would not be in college right now. 55 00:05:02,529 --> 00:05:06,504 And for me, that was like, �Wow, man.� I liked that. 56 00:05:06,588 --> 00:05:08,831 Thank you very much, thank you. 57 00:05:09,685 --> 00:05:13,243 There was an interracial group. The choir was interracial 58 00:05:13,318 --> 00:05:15,099 and they used to sing this song: 59 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,424 �Never heard a man speak like this man before. 60 00:05:18,496 --> 00:05:22,069 Never heard a man speak like this man before. 61 00:05:22,111 --> 00:05:26,050 All the days of my life, ever since I been born, 62 00:05:26,123 --> 00:05:30,467 I never heard a man speak like this man before.� 63 00:05:30,732 --> 00:05:35,027 After they sang one or two songs, the whole place was lit up. 64 00:05:48,761 --> 00:05:50,788 The Peoples Temple services, 65 00:05:51,450 --> 00:05:55,465 they had life, they had soul, they had power. 66 00:05:55,466 --> 00:05:58,258 We were alive in those services. 67 00:06:04,426 --> 00:06:08,138 I would be up jumping in the balcony and clapping my hands. 68 00:06:09,103 --> 00:06:12,692 If you came in as a stranger and didn�t know anything about the politics, 69 00:06:12,751 --> 00:06:17,542 you were thinking you were entering an old-time religion service. 70 00:06:22,081 --> 00:06:26,150 By the time Jones did come out to do his speaking, 71 00:06:26,637 --> 00:06:29,122 the table had already been set. 72 00:06:29,123 --> 00:06:31,998 I represent divine principle, total equality, 73 00:06:32,095 --> 00:06:35,053 a society where people own all things in common. 74 00:06:35,150 --> 00:06:38,217 Where there is no rich or poor. Where there are no races. 75 00:06:38,264 --> 00:06:41,224 Wherever there is people struggling for justice and righteousness, 76 00:06:41,225 --> 00:06:44,267 there I am. And there I am involved. 77 00:06:45,121 --> 00:06:47,921 What he spoke about were things that were in our hearts. 78 00:06:48,603 --> 00:06:50,801 The government was not taking care of the people. 79 00:06:50,802 --> 00:06:54,054 There were too many poor people out there. There were poor children. 80 00:06:54,141 --> 00:06:56,067 The world is like a human family. 81 00:06:56,100 --> 00:06:58,761 The little child may not be able to go and draw a paycheck, 82 00:06:58,762 --> 00:07:01,062 but the father guarantees the childcare. 83 00:07:01,118 --> 00:07:03,536 The grandmother may not be able to work anymore, 84 00:07:03,539 --> 00:07:07,556 but the father and mother guarantees her the right to live. 85 00:07:08,370 --> 00:07:11,538 Every single person felt that they had a purpose there 86 00:07:11,598 --> 00:07:13,878 and that they were exceptionally special. 87 00:07:13,939 --> 00:07:18,126 And that is how he brought so many young college kids in, 88 00:07:18,210 --> 00:07:23,617 so many older black women in, so many people from diverse backgrounds 89 00:07:23,696 --> 00:07:28,548 who realized that there was something bigger than themselves 90 00:07:28,588 --> 00:07:32,453 that they needed to be involved in... and that Jim Jones offered that. 91 00:07:37,085 --> 00:07:41,838 I went home, told mom, �You know what, this is the right church for me.� 92 00:07:42,233 --> 00:07:46,527 It was the next week that I became a member of Peoples Temple. 93 00:07:58,528 --> 00:08:01,299 There�s a little town in Indiana. 94 00:08:02,851 --> 00:08:07,085 The moment I think of it a great deal of pain comes. 95 00:08:09,217 --> 00:08:14,558 As a child I was undoubtedly one of the poor in the community, 96 00:08:14,559 --> 00:08:16,362 never accepted. 97 00:08:16,378 --> 00:08:20,104 Born as it were on the wrong side of the tracks. 98 00:08:23,251 --> 00:08:28,539 I grew up with Jimmy Jones. We started first grade together. 99 00:08:29,971 --> 00:08:34,185 My brothers used to go over to Jimmy�s house 100 00:08:34,777 --> 00:08:40,069 and hung around his barn, which was where he played. 101 00:08:42,344 --> 00:08:46,466 From the time I was five years old, I thought Jimmy was a really weird kid, 102 00:08:46,523 --> 00:08:49,259 there was something not quite right. 103 00:08:50,489 --> 00:08:54,746 He was obsessed with religion; he was obsessed with death. 104 00:08:55,670 --> 00:08:58,848 My brothers came back with stories of him 105 00:08:58,860 --> 00:09:03,204 conducting funerals for small animals that had died. 106 00:09:03,205 --> 00:09:07,410 A friend of mine told me that he saw Jimmy kill a cat with a knife. 107 00:09:08,534 --> 00:09:11,471 Well having a funeral for it was a little strange, 108 00:09:11,548 --> 00:09:14,308 killing the animal was very strange. 109 00:09:15,406 --> 00:09:21,237 Jimmy�s father did not work, did not have a job, and was a drunk. 110 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:26,629 Jim�s mother had to work in order to support the family. 111 00:09:26,690 --> 00:09:28,842 And he was kind of left to his own devices. 112 00:09:28,948 --> 00:09:32,482 Kind of the kid who ran wild in the street, you know what I mean? 113 00:09:32,540 --> 00:09:35,779 Listen, he was in a dysfunctional family. 114 00:09:37,091 --> 00:09:39,884 We got a nice name for it now. 115 00:09:40,780 --> 00:09:42,756 But when you live in a dysfunctional family, 116 00:09:42,786 --> 00:09:44,560 you think it�s normal. 117 00:09:51,443 --> 00:09:55,234 Feeling as an outcast, I�d early developed a sensitivity 118 00:09:55,263 --> 00:09:57,998 for the problems of blacks. 119 00:09:58,718 --> 00:10:02,989 I brought the only black young man in the town home 120 00:10:03,037 --> 00:10:05,946 and my dad said that he could not come in 121 00:10:05,992 --> 00:10:10,266 and I said, �Then I shan�t,� and I did not see my dad for many years. 122 00:10:17,708 --> 00:10:22,772 In Lynn, Jim Jones looked for community and couldn�t find community, 123 00:10:22,873 --> 00:10:27,184 in Lynn as a town... which had a population of what, a thousand people? 124 00:10:27,713 --> 00:10:31,562 But he did find community in the Pentecostal Church. 125 00:10:34,875 --> 00:10:38,907 He saw that they were a surrogate home. 126 00:10:38,955 --> 00:10:44,070 He saw that the preachers were like father figures to their congregations. 127 00:10:45,218 --> 00:10:51,080 And that role represented power over the lives of your congregation. 128 00:10:56,580 --> 00:11:00,140 Jim Jones started out on the revival preaching circuit, 129 00:11:00,141 --> 00:11:03,141 learning the ropes of being a preacher. 130 00:11:03,204 --> 00:11:05,610 And once he started doing that, 131 00:11:05,611 --> 00:11:08,611 it became clear that he could get a following. 132 00:11:08,907 --> 00:11:13,281 The first time I met Jim Jones was Easter 1953. 133 00:11:13,344 --> 00:11:16,530 My mother-in-law, Edith Cordell, 134 00:11:16,531 --> 00:11:19,631 had a monkey and it hung itself 135 00:11:19,671 --> 00:11:21,626 and she wanted to replace the monkey. 136 00:11:21,627 --> 00:11:23,827 So she looked in the�Indianapolis Star, 137 00:11:23,908 --> 00:11:28,790 and in that�Indianapolis Star was Jim Jones�s ad 138 00:11:28,828 --> 00:11:31,624 that he had some monkeys to sell. 139 00:11:31,931 --> 00:11:35,106 So it was through that that she met Jim Jones, 140 00:11:35,159 --> 00:11:37,299 and came back saying that 141 00:11:37,454 --> 00:11:41,376 he had invited her to church this next Sunday. 142 00:11:48,304 --> 00:11:51,446 It didn�t make no difference what color you were. 143 00:11:51,512 --> 00:11:54,438 It was everybody welcome there in that church 144 00:11:54,439 --> 00:11:56,549 and he made it very plain from the platform. 145 00:11:56,740 --> 00:11:58,423 We had some people that disagreed with Jimmy. 146 00:11:58,424 --> 00:12:01,324 They got up in the audience and they said they disagreed with him. 147 00:12:02,354 --> 00:12:06,134 They did not like this integration part of the services. 148 00:12:06,218 --> 00:12:10,479 We did ask people to leave the church one night because of that. 149 00:12:13,917 --> 00:12:16,113 I was the first Negro child 150 00:12:16,194 --> 00:12:19,092 adopted by a Caucasian family in the state of Indiana. 151 00:12:19,604 --> 00:12:24,151 Jim and Marceline actually went to adopt a Caucasian child. 152 00:12:24,282 --> 00:12:27,122 The story goes that I was crying real loud 153 00:12:27,123 --> 00:12:30,420 and it drew attention for Marceline to come over, 154 00:12:30,642 --> 00:12:34,938 and once she picked me up, I stopped crying. 155 00:12:36,454 --> 00:12:40,026 My family was a template of a rainbow family. 156 00:12:40,206 --> 00:12:42,736 We had an African American, 157 00:12:43,137 --> 00:12:46,637 we had two American Asian 158 00:12:46,837 --> 00:12:50,083 and we had his natural son, homemade. 159 00:12:51,639 --> 00:12:57,141 Jim was breaking new ground in race relations 160 00:12:57,226 --> 00:13:03,107 at a time when the ground was still pretty hard against that. 161 00:13:03,778 --> 00:13:08,433 Jim Jones was hated and despised by some people, 162 00:13:08,504 --> 00:13:11,861 particularly in the white community. 163 00:13:18,989 --> 00:13:23,094 There had been pressures on him to leave Indianapolis. 164 00:13:23,164 --> 00:13:28,717 He thought that Indianapolis was too racist of a place for him to be, 165 00:13:28,897 --> 00:13:30,835 and he wanted to take his people out. 166 00:13:32,542 --> 00:13:36,812 California is perceived to be a very progressive state. 167 00:13:37,890 --> 00:13:43,174 This would be the place to implement the dream of racial equality. 168 00:13:43,289 --> 00:13:46,320 Not Indianapolis, which seems hopeless, 169 00:13:46,321 --> 00:13:49,844 but California, which seems to be the Promised Land. 170 00:13:50,042 --> 00:13:52,608 He chose Ukiah in northern California, 171 00:13:52,651 --> 00:13:55,308 about 90 miles north of San Francisco, 172 00:13:55,316 --> 00:13:58,943 because there was an article in�Esquire Magazine�that said that 173 00:13:58,981 --> 00:14:01,768 Ukiah was one of the nine places in the world that 174 00:14:01,769 --> 00:14:04,269 in the event of thermonuclear attack, 175 00:14:04,270 --> 00:14:05,970 people would survive. 176 00:14:07,614 --> 00:14:13,361 I told Edith, �If you follow Jimmy to California, you�re crazy.� 177 00:14:14,938 --> 00:14:17,941 So what did Jimmy do, but took her to a psychiatrist 178 00:14:17,942 --> 00:14:20,142 and sent me a certified letter 179 00:14:20,251 --> 00:14:23,968 that she is of sound mind, and she is not crazy. 180 00:14:25,772 --> 00:14:28,386 I was there the afternoon that Edith drove away. 181 00:14:29,767 --> 00:14:32,053 I didn�t know I�d never see her again. 182 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,733 The move to California was really fun. 183 00:14:50,852 --> 00:14:56,408 There were about twelve to fifteen cars driving across United States 184 00:14:56,637 --> 00:14:58,222 and making that journey 185 00:14:59,303 --> 00:15:02,114 to a place that none of us knew, 186 00:15:02,606 --> 00:15:06,617 you know, none of us could even imagine. 187 00:15:07,949 --> 00:15:10,998 We were going to California, our new world. 188 00:15:15,867 --> 00:15:19,110 When I saw Redwood Valley, I couldn�t believe my eyes 189 00:15:19,186 --> 00:15:23,266 because it was like a paradise. It was rural. It was green. 190 00:15:23,344 --> 00:15:25,985 There were grape vines everywhere, 191 00:15:26,138 --> 00:15:28,251 and I fell in love. 192 00:15:28,382 --> 00:15:31,645 I said "This is got to be a perfect way to live." 193 00:15:35,469 --> 00:15:37,724 We started with about a hundred and forty-one people 194 00:15:37,725 --> 00:15:41,094 and from that, we�ve grown to a very thriving congregation. 195 00:15:41,095 --> 00:15:45,760 We have about every level of society, all socio-economic income strata, 196 00:15:45,843 --> 00:15:50,257 professional down to the ordinary field worker, field laborer. 197 00:15:50,395 --> 00:15:53,938 Really, it�s beautiful to see that all these divisions have been broken down... 198 00:15:53,939 --> 00:15:57,680 not only race, but any differences of economic position. 199 00:15:57,681 --> 00:16:02,219 The focus of Jim�s message was taken from the Bible, 200 00:16:02,873 --> 00:16:06,148 where Jesus in his earliest days 201 00:16:07,266 --> 00:16:11,239 told people to sell all things and have all things in common. 202 00:16:11,341 --> 00:16:16,552 Jesus Christ had the most revolutionary teachings to be said, in the sense that 203 00:16:16,553 --> 00:16:18,772 he said to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, 204 00:16:18,830 --> 00:16:20,459 take in the stranger, 205 00:16:20,460 --> 00:16:23,460 administer to those who are widows and afflicted in their suffering. 206 00:16:23,531 --> 00:16:26,754 And we feel that no one really tried Christianity too effectively 207 00:16:26,755 --> 00:16:28,264 in the Judeo-Christian tradition. 208 00:16:28,857 --> 00:16:31,241 The membership increased substantially 209 00:16:31,334 --> 00:16:36,003 as he procured more and more Greyhound buses 210 00:16:36,307 --> 00:16:39,141 and fixed them up, 211 00:16:39,142 --> 00:16:43,005 and every summer he began this cross-country tour. 212 00:16:44,261 --> 00:16:47,942 The purpose of the bus trips was to spread Jim�s beliefs 213 00:16:47,999 --> 00:16:50,843 about socialism and the world, 214 00:16:50,910 --> 00:16:54,782 and how we can live a better life and about an integrated lifestyle. 215 00:16:54,998 --> 00:17:00,759 But behind that, I think it was to gather more members for the Temple. 216 00:17:10,785 --> 00:17:13,172 I decided not to go to Vietnam, 217 00:17:13,226 --> 00:17:17,147 and I was just at the point of what am I going to do with myself? 218 00:17:17,211 --> 00:17:21,406 I heard Jim Jones was going to be coming to Philadelphia, 219 00:17:21,546 --> 00:17:24,259 and coming to Benjamin Franklin High School. 220 00:17:24,847 --> 00:17:26,895 And I went Wednesday night and I listened to him, 221 00:17:26,896 --> 00:17:30,896 and I was impressed by how it was such an interracial group 222 00:17:30,897 --> 00:17:32,297 and people were really happy. 223 00:17:32,370 --> 00:17:34,382 You got nothing to lose. Who else is going to stand 224 00:17:34,383 --> 00:17:36,483 and look you in the face and say, �Come and I�ll give you a job. 225 00:17:36,552 --> 00:17:38,724 Come and I�ll give you a home. 226 00:17:38,819 --> 00:17:42,430 Come and I�ll give you a bed?� �But I�ve got nothing but a pension.� 227 00:17:42,496 --> 00:17:46,047 �Go and leave your pension behind,� who else will tell you that? 228 00:17:46,158 --> 00:17:48,982 Who�ll tell you, �I�ll put you on that bus tomorrow?� 229 00:17:49,052 --> 00:17:52,663 I heard Jim Jones talking about equality among races, 230 00:17:52,784 --> 00:17:57,820 what it�s like living in California, in the Redwood Valley, 231 00:17:57,821 --> 00:18:00,521 the good works that they�re doing. 232 00:18:00,590 --> 00:18:02,897 Things that, like, I wanted to get involved with, 233 00:18:02,898 --> 00:18:05,198 but didn�t even know where to make an entr�e. 234 00:18:05,318 --> 00:18:07,907 And all of a sudden, the answer was there. 235 00:18:07,976 --> 00:18:13,001 Somebody is gonna get on the freedom train in Philadelphia! 236 00:18:13,614 --> 00:18:17,583 He was there for three evenings, and the third evening 237 00:18:17,645 --> 00:18:20,483 I went off on the bus and came to California. 238 00:18:30,004 --> 00:18:34,344 When I joined Peoples Temple in the spring of 1966, 239 00:18:34,423 --> 00:18:37,630 there were exactly eighty-one members. 240 00:18:37,695 --> 00:18:42,732 Five years later, an extended family of eighty people 241 00:18:43,606 --> 00:18:48,176 had become an organization of thousands. 242 00:18:53,394 --> 00:18:56,559 Peoples Temple really was a black church. 243 00:18:56,637 --> 00:19:01,650 It was led by a white minister, but in terms of the worship service, 244 00:19:01,791 --> 00:19:05,734 commitment to the social gospel, its membership, 245 00:19:05,735 --> 00:19:08,435 it functioned completely like a black church. 246 00:19:08,510 --> 00:19:11,191 He talked black. He really understood it. 247 00:19:11,192 --> 00:19:14,592 He understood how it was to be treated differently. 248 00:19:14,658 --> 00:19:17,327 And that�s from his roots coming out of Lynn. 249 00:19:17,399 --> 00:19:19,110 When people heard Jim, 250 00:19:19,111 --> 00:19:23,111 they didn�t look upon him as being a white preacher, you know. 251 00:19:23,112 --> 00:19:26,412 People didn�t look at Jim as being white. He was not white. 252 00:19:26,413 --> 00:19:28,113 He was just their preacher. 253 00:19:28,189 --> 00:19:30,516 You going to go to Texas with me when I have that campaign? 254 00:19:30,587 --> 00:19:35,549 I was just wondering whether I could go or not. I would like to go. 255 00:19:35,581 --> 00:19:38,241 Why of course you�d go, you went to Mexico with me. 256 00:19:38,293 --> 00:19:42,241 As older people joined, it took a year or so 257 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,462 and he�d convince the people that he was doing so much in the community 258 00:19:46,527 --> 00:19:50,183 and so why not rather than just tithe your twenty percent, 259 00:19:50,334 --> 00:19:55,004 why not sell your home, give the money to the church? 260 00:19:55,083 --> 00:19:57,548 And that is what people began to do. 261 00:19:57,624 --> 00:20:01,229 Now in this church, what have we done in a short time? 262 00:20:01,329 --> 00:20:06,480 We have four senior citizens� homes that are the most innovating, 263 00:20:06,528 --> 00:20:08,592 the most beautiful you want to see. 264 00:20:08,658 --> 00:20:12,325 They had their own rooms, they had every need taken care of, 265 00:20:12,403 --> 00:20:17,122 they had their food provided. They were well looked after. 266 00:20:17,484 --> 00:20:21,473 Now my home is stone block and there�s not a piece of new furniture in it. 267 00:20:21,512 --> 00:20:25,177 But our senior citizen homes, they�re elegant. And that�s beautiful. 268 00:20:25,249 --> 00:20:28,749 They were giving their life�s money and savings to the church, 269 00:20:28,822 --> 00:20:30,422 but in exchange, 270 00:20:30,423 --> 00:20:33,906 the church was agreeing to take care of them in the community, 271 00:20:33,962 --> 00:20:36,100 not just in a nursing home. 272 00:20:46,217 --> 00:20:49,643 Well it got to the point where there were so many duties in the Temple 273 00:20:49,686 --> 00:20:52,909 that some people had to become full time. 274 00:20:52,981 --> 00:20:55,279 So when you were full-time Temple, 275 00:20:55,331 --> 00:20:57,559 you worked about twenty hours a day. 276 00:20:57,579 --> 00:21:00,872 My week kind of ran like this, I�d work my regular job on Mondays, 277 00:21:00,922 --> 00:21:03,279 you know, eight to five. Then, I�d work on files. 278 00:21:03,318 --> 00:21:05,947 There were people who ran rest homes. 279 00:21:05,983 --> 00:21:08,521 There were animals to be taken care of. There were the publications. 280 00:21:08,584 --> 00:21:10,575 Everybody had a job. 281 00:21:10,624 --> 00:21:12,799 Wednesday night we�d have a meeting in Redwood Valley 282 00:21:12,839 --> 00:21:15,519 and I�d go to the meeting for, until probably 10 or 10:30. 283 00:21:15,543 --> 00:21:18,285 We turned our paychecks over every time we got paid. 284 00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:20,952 And then we got an allowance, five dollars a week. 285 00:21:20,958 --> 00:21:22,995 And Friday, I�d go to work and I�d get off of work, 286 00:21:23,064 --> 00:21:26,218 and I�d hop on the bus or drive the bus to San Francisco. 287 00:21:26,261 --> 00:21:27,853 If I had to go to the doctor, it was taken care of. 288 00:21:27,854 --> 00:21:29,454 If I had to go to the dentist, it was taken care of. 289 00:21:29,541 --> 00:21:31,503 If I needed clothes, that was taken care of. 290 00:21:31,572 --> 00:21:33,808 And often on Saturday night, we�d have planning commission meetings 291 00:21:33,809 --> 00:21:35,209 until 2 or 3 in the morning. 292 00:21:35,225 --> 00:21:37,278 We would always try to let each other know the next day, 293 00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:38,679 �Well, how long did you sleep?� 294 00:21:38,691 --> 00:21:39,801 �Oh, I slept two hours.� 295 00:21:39,802 --> 00:21:42,202 �You only slept two? Well, I slept an hour-and-a-half.� 296 00:21:42,228 --> 00:21:44,102 And then Sunday, we�d have a Sunday morning service 297 00:21:44,132 --> 00:21:47,445 and then around one o�clock hop on the buses, drive up, 298 00:21:47,504 --> 00:21:50,686 drop people off in San Francisco, and drive up to Redwood Valley. 299 00:21:50,736 --> 00:21:53,130 The longest I ever stayed awake was six days, 300 00:21:53,221 --> 00:21:56,028 and that�s with no coffee, no nothing. 301 00:21:56,081 --> 00:21:57,484 It changed over the years, 302 00:21:57,579 --> 00:22:00,292 but it was always busy. 303 00:22:00,679 --> 00:22:04,469 Being in an environment where you�re constantly up, you�re constantly busy, 304 00:22:05,153 --> 00:22:10,060 and you�re made to feel guilty if you take too many luxuries like sleeping... 305 00:22:10,605 --> 00:22:13,260 you tend to not really think for yourself. 306 00:22:13,665 --> 00:22:16,342 And I did allow Jones to think for me 307 00:22:16,391 --> 00:22:19,360 because I figured that he had the better plan. 308 00:22:19,414 --> 00:22:22,111 I gave my rights up to him. 309 00:22:22,165 --> 00:22:24,427 As many others did. 310 00:22:26,775 --> 00:22:28,456 Edie. 311 00:22:30,673 --> 00:22:35,165 Fingers, are your fingers numb in your right hand? 312 00:22:36,237 --> 00:22:39,387 Reach the fingers out that are bothering you. 313 00:22:43,647 --> 00:22:45,608 Now, is the pain gone? 314 00:22:52,631 --> 00:22:57,419 There was a senior citizen and we nicknamed her Power. 315 00:22:58,268 --> 00:23:01,651 He would have her to come up in the midst of one of his meetings, 316 00:23:01,652 --> 00:23:03,052 and she used to say, 317 00:23:03,266 --> 00:23:07,153 �The man got power. 318 00:23:07,954 --> 00:23:10,354 The man got power, ya�ll.� 319 00:23:10,577 --> 00:23:13,044 And the whole place would just go wild. 320 00:23:15,988 --> 00:23:19,887 Take your glasses off. Let�s just dare in our faith. 321 00:23:23,805 --> 00:23:27,927 Now look at my face. 322 00:23:28,528 --> 00:23:32,128 I love you, the people love you, 323 00:23:32,192 --> 00:23:34,703 most importantly Christ loves you. 324 00:23:34,718 --> 00:23:36,382 What do you see? 325 00:23:36,441 --> 00:23:38,954 - One finger. - One finger! 326 00:23:41,515 --> 00:23:44,334 One of the most incredible healings, to me, 327 00:23:44,758 --> 00:23:48,315 was this little old lady and she was in a wheelchair. 328 00:23:48,389 --> 00:23:51,221 Jim said, �Darlin�, you know, today is your day. 329 00:23:51,256 --> 00:23:53,717 We�re going to, you�re going to get healed today.� 330 00:23:54,915 --> 00:23:57,921 He said, �We�re going to, we�re going to heal those legs of yours. 331 00:23:57,922 --> 00:23:59,322 You�re going to walk again.� 332 00:23:59,396 --> 00:24:03,678 And the whole auditorium went totally crazy. 333 00:24:04,829 --> 00:24:06,909 Come forth, my dear. 334 00:24:07,310 --> 00:24:12,110 Stand up. Take that step. Bless your heart. Take that step. 335 00:24:12,361 --> 00:24:16,411 And she takes this real slow, shaky step. 336 00:24:17,068 --> 00:24:19,221 She said, �I can feel it.� 337 00:24:19,327 --> 00:24:22,696 He said, �Yes, I know you can feel it. Now take your other leg and do it.� 338 00:24:22,736 --> 00:24:25,730 And so another real slow, shaky step 339 00:24:25,794 --> 00:24:28,409 and he says, �Now I want you to walk toward me.� 340 00:24:28,428 --> 00:24:34,178 Move forward. Move forward. Move forward, darlin�. You can do it. 341 00:24:34,757 --> 00:24:39,242 And she starts taking forward steps. And pretty soon she is walking. 342 00:24:39,943 --> 00:24:42,843 And she starts walking up one of the aisles. 343 00:24:46,327 --> 00:24:48,605 And pretty soon she�s running. 344 00:24:49,957 --> 00:24:53,233 Well, by this time the whole congregation�s running down these aisles with us, 345 00:24:53,516 --> 00:24:57,723 we�re all just running around the aisles, just hoopin� and hollerin� up a storm. 346 00:25:03,998 --> 00:25:07,490 Later, I found out that this person 347 00:25:07,691 --> 00:25:11,491 that I had seen healed and cried with 348 00:25:11,961 --> 00:25:17,361 was really one of the secretaries, made up to look crippled and blind. 349 00:25:17,362 --> 00:25:22,662 Never shall forget what He�s done for me. 350 00:25:22,963 --> 00:25:28,663 Oh, what He�s done for me. 351 00:25:28,964 --> 00:25:34,664 Oh, what He�s done for me. 352 00:25:34,965 --> 00:25:39,965 Oh, what He�s done for me. 353 00:25:39,966 --> 00:25:45,266 I never shall forget what He�s done for me. 354 00:25:45,484 --> 00:25:49,481 For those people that hadn�t grown up in the apostolic world, 355 00:25:49,530 --> 00:25:52,652 Jim would say, you know, �I know this is different for you. 356 00:25:52,711 --> 00:25:57,787 But for people to come from extremely religious backgrounds, 357 00:25:57,872 --> 00:26:00,546 so that I can bring them forward to the message 358 00:26:00,578 --> 00:26:02,777 that�s so important for all of us today 359 00:26:02,778 --> 00:26:05,078 and that is activism, 360 00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:08,567 then I need to speak on each person�s level.� 361 00:26:08,652 --> 00:26:10,764 He said, �A lot of you people, you Christian people coming in, 362 00:26:10,765 --> 00:26:12,565 you�re so hung-up on this Bible.� 363 00:26:12,634 --> 00:26:14,867 He said, �This black book has held down black people 364 00:26:14,868 --> 00:26:16,868 for the last two-hundred years.� 365 00:26:16,954 --> 00:26:19,627 He said, �But I�m going to show you this has no power.� 366 00:26:19,685 --> 00:26:24,007 So he leaned way back like a football player and he flung it. 367 00:26:24,208 --> 00:26:28,908 And when he flung it and let it go, the place got dead quiet like. 368 00:26:30,999 --> 00:26:33,011 And he waited until it hit the floor, POW! 369 00:26:33,013 --> 00:26:37,597 When it hit the floor, he stood and he looked back and forth. 370 00:26:39,825 --> 00:26:44,399 He said, �Now, did you see any lightning come from the sky and strike me dead?� 371 00:26:44,483 --> 00:26:46,664 You�re gonna help yourself, or you�ll get no help! 372 00:26:46,793 --> 00:26:49,758 There�s only one hope of glory� That�s within you! 373 00:26:49,855 --> 00:26:53,389 Nobody�s gonna come out of the sky! There�s no heaven up there� 374 00:26:53,470 --> 00:26:55,714 We�ll have to make heaven down here! 375 00:26:58,243 --> 00:27:02,527 And he said, �What you need to believe in is what you can see.� 376 00:27:03,077 --> 00:27:06,634 He said, �If you see me as your friend, I�ll be your friend. 377 00:27:06,725 --> 00:27:09,269 As you see me as your father, I�ll be your father, 378 00:27:09,270 --> 00:27:11,070 for those of you that don�t have a father.� 379 00:27:11,157 --> 00:27:14,539 He said, �If you see me as your savior, I�ll be your savior.� 380 00:27:14,616 --> 00:27:18,922 He said, even so, �If you see me as your God, I�ll be your God.� 381 00:27:37,374 --> 00:27:42,986 People lifted Jim to a level of adoration 382 00:27:43,209 --> 00:27:48,191 because many believed that he had healed them of cancer. 383 00:27:48,312 --> 00:27:49,604 Many believed 384 00:27:49,605 --> 00:27:54,605 that he had saved their son or daughter from an automobile accident. 385 00:27:56,472 --> 00:28:00,231 There were many reasons for many people 386 00:28:00,232 --> 00:28:02,732 to admire, love, 387 00:28:02,838 --> 00:28:07,576 excuse, overlook much of what Jim did. 388 00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:21,074 I had been in the Temple for just a few months. 389 00:28:21,431 --> 00:28:23,833 I was sent backstage in Los Angeles to... 390 00:28:24,134 --> 00:28:26,534 to get something for somebody, I don�t remember what. 391 00:28:26,620 --> 00:28:30,308 And Jones happened to be coming out of his room and he said, 392 00:28:30,309 --> 00:28:34,309 �Hi Tim, how are you doing? How is it going? How do you like everything so far?� 393 00:28:34,423 --> 00:28:37,482 And, �Oh, I like it a lot.� And, �you know, it�s really cool.� 394 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:39,320 I don�t remember exactly. 395 00:28:39,329 --> 00:28:44,330 And he reached up and kind of patted the back of my neck, and he said, 396 00:28:44,331 --> 00:28:46,623 �I�ll fuck you in the ass if you want.� 397 00:28:47,736 --> 00:28:52,836 And I just kind of stammered, �No.� You know, �No.� 398 00:28:52,837 --> 00:28:56,937 And he said, �Well, you know, if you ever want that, that�s okay, 399 00:28:57,037 --> 00:28:59,076 just let me know and we�ll do that.� 400 00:29:00,591 --> 00:29:03,860 Jim said that all of us were homosexuals, 401 00:29:03,983 --> 00:29:08,517 everyone except... He was the only heterosexual on the planet. 402 00:29:10,147 --> 00:29:12,941 And that the women were all lesbians and the guys were all gay. 403 00:29:13,009 --> 00:29:17,150 And so anyone that showed any interest in sex was just compensating. 404 00:29:17,223 --> 00:29:22,747 What he explained to each of us, and in sermons, was that 405 00:29:23,748 --> 00:29:28,148 sexual relationships were very selfish 406 00:29:28,234 --> 00:29:33,622 and they took away from the focus of the church, 407 00:29:33,623 --> 00:29:36,023 and that was to help others. 408 00:29:36,782 --> 00:29:38,849 Jim was not celibate. 409 00:29:39,150 --> 00:29:43,850 Nobody knew that until perhaps it was their time to find out. 410 00:29:43,979 --> 00:29:48,685 What he spoke from the pulpit wasn�t what he did behind the scenes. 411 00:29:50,750 --> 00:29:55,225 I remember one night, one of the brothers had stood up and said, 412 00:29:55,325 --> 00:30:00,715 �You know, I think everybody that wants Father to screw them in the butt, 413 00:30:00,816 --> 00:30:04,116 you need to take an enema first.� 414 00:30:05,031 --> 00:30:09,420 I�m telling you the truth man, I�m telling you the truth. 415 00:30:11,155 --> 00:30:13,615 And then the question went on, 416 00:30:13,816 --> 00:30:17,516 �Well, how many of you in here have had him to do that?� 417 00:30:18,186 --> 00:30:21,762 And whether they were lying or just following suit, 418 00:30:21,863 --> 00:30:25,363 hands of the men just went up around the room. 419 00:30:25,519 --> 00:30:28,244 And I�m sitting there petrified because I�m like, 420 00:30:28,445 --> 00:30:31,345 �Is this what it�s leading to, that I�m supposed to get to?� 421 00:30:31,493 --> 00:30:34,921 And I�m thinking, �hmmm.� But I played it off like, 422 00:30:34,922 --> 00:30:37,522 �Okay, I�m being cool. Okay, if that�s where they at, 423 00:30:37,622 --> 00:30:39,477 that�s not where I�m at.� 424 00:30:39,512 --> 00:30:43,562 Because I�m thinking, �My wife... I�m happy with my wife. 425 00:30:43,563 --> 00:30:46,663 With this sleep I�m not getting, I�m not getting enough anyway.� 426 00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:55,399 One of the powerful things that Jim used, to keep us to not think, 427 00:30:55,498 --> 00:31:00,014 was that we were never really allowed to speak with one another. 428 00:31:00,096 --> 00:31:03,852 I�d look around and I�d say, �Am I the only one that feels this way?� 429 00:31:05,023 --> 00:31:10,763 I learned, eventually, not to say anything to anyone. 430 00:31:13,351 --> 00:31:15,922 We had a lady who visited us a week ago here 431 00:31:15,992 --> 00:31:18,982 and was speaking to one at the door, and she was a member of a prominent church, 432 00:31:19,047 --> 00:31:20,568 a pastor�s wife, 433 00:31:20,645 --> 00:31:23,865 and she said, �I think that the poor should be made to control 434 00:31:23,949 --> 00:31:26,877 how many children they bring into the earth.� You remember? 435 00:31:26,972 --> 00:31:30,742 Some leading scientists say, �We have to have euthanasia.� 436 00:31:30,855 --> 00:31:34,054 Oh, no. Oh, no. 437 00:31:34,174 --> 00:31:37,824 Who�s going to decide who and when a person�s going to die? 438 00:31:37,926 --> 00:31:41,208 We must never allow that because this is the kind of thing that ushers in 439 00:31:41,255 --> 00:31:43,815 the terror of a Hitler�s Germany. 440 00:31:43,879 --> 00:31:46,876 We must not allow these kind of things to enter our consciousness. 441 00:31:50,356 --> 00:31:54,235 My father used to tell me that people�s lives, 442 00:31:54,317 --> 00:31:58,576 sixty percent of people�s lives, were made on emotional decisions. 443 00:31:59,433 --> 00:32:00,957 Make your decisions, 444 00:32:00,958 --> 00:32:04,258 sixty percent of your decisions, based on logic, fact and reason, 445 00:32:04,827 --> 00:32:09,108 and allow emotion to be the secondary motivator. 446 00:32:09,498 --> 00:32:13,712 And... we were Star Trek fans. He and I were Star Trek fans, 447 00:32:13,713 --> 00:32:15,313 and he used to always say, 448 00:32:15,347 --> 00:32:18,828 �Just vulcanize yourself. Just vulcanize yourself.� 449 00:32:24,961 --> 00:32:27,871 We were celebrating New Years Eve. 450 00:32:27,972 --> 00:32:31,172 There were about a hundred and twenty people. 451 00:32:31,263 --> 00:32:36,540 Jim started talking about our cause and he said, 452 00:32:37,652 --> 00:32:40,833 �This punch is going to be passed out to everybody here.� 453 00:32:42,681 --> 00:32:46,625 We all drank our punch and then he said, 454 00:32:46,999 --> 00:32:49,633 �You just drank poison. 455 00:32:50,342 --> 00:32:55,106 And we will all die, right here in the church, together as one.� 456 00:32:56,358 --> 00:33:00,281 The women were just screaming, �Oh no, my baby, my baby�, 457 00:33:00,988 --> 00:33:02,754 and others just sat there. 458 00:33:04,755 --> 00:33:06,755 And all of a sudden, Jim says, 459 00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:10,590 �That wasn�t poison you drank.� 460 00:33:11,738 --> 00:33:14,650 Jim said that this was a test of loyalty. 461 00:33:14,728 --> 00:33:20,401 He just wanted to see if we were truly committed to our cause, 462 00:33:20,450 --> 00:33:23,176 and that was how we would show it. 463 00:33:23,742 --> 00:33:26,096 Well it wasn�t about our loyalty, 464 00:33:26,197 --> 00:33:29,497 because we were demonstrating loyalty all the time. 465 00:33:29,825 --> 00:33:33,693 Coming there, being there in the meetings, sitting, listening, 466 00:33:33,994 --> 00:33:35,994 you know, supporting, working. 467 00:33:36,134 --> 00:33:40,994 And I thought it had a lot more to do with Jim�s sense of 468 00:33:43,496 --> 00:33:44,696 rehearsal. 469 00:33:45,235 --> 00:33:50,279 Did he feel like he was potent and... and omnipotent enough 470 00:33:50,369 --> 00:33:54,296 to really get people to kill themselves when he said so? 471 00:33:54,612 --> 00:33:57,311 And that frightened the hell out of me. 472 00:34:08,009 --> 00:34:11,779 Jim Jones, I think, realized that 473 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:17,680 ultimately Ukiah was not the sort of climate 474 00:34:17,681 --> 00:34:20,254 where Peoples Temple would thrive. 475 00:34:20,411 --> 00:34:24,796 He wasn�t going to be gaining large numbers of members. 476 00:34:24,945 --> 00:34:27,257 He couldn�t declare himself to be 477 00:34:27,382 --> 00:34:32,094 a socialist god openly, certainly in a city like Ukiah. 478 00:34:40,978 --> 00:34:46,010 In San Francisco, Jones walked in on a sort of a wild kind of party, 479 00:34:46,089 --> 00:34:49,790 where there was a lot of new faces and new sources of power. 480 00:34:49,882 --> 00:34:52,644 And there was a sort of feeling that smaller groups, 481 00:34:52,733 --> 00:34:55,966 neighborhood groups, activist groups had a bigger chance. 482 00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:01,633 I think the early sixties had been a time of great optimism; 483 00:35:01,734 --> 00:35:04,113 there was a belief that we could change the world 484 00:35:04,229 --> 00:35:06,199 through social movements. 485 00:35:06,294 --> 00:35:11,565 With various assassinations, Malcolm X, Medgar Evers, Martin Luther King, 486 00:35:11,648 --> 00:35:16,312 Robert Kennedy, there was definitely a feeling of hopelessness. 487 00:35:18,139 --> 00:35:21,914 The message of Peoples Temple was, �No, the dream is alive.� 488 00:35:28,030 --> 00:35:31,653 If you had a demonstration in San Francisco 489 00:35:32,389 --> 00:35:34,380 and you wanted people to show up, 490 00:35:34,616 --> 00:35:39,322 Jim Jones, the Peoples Temple, could be there in twenty minutes, 491 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,219 with hundreds of people. And we would be enthusiastic. 492 00:35:45,940 --> 00:35:49,661 There was an attitude of, "We can change the world." 493 00:35:49,961 --> 00:35:53,067 And that�s what we wanted to do. 494 00:35:53,131 --> 00:35:56,702 These people would be on time, they�d be polite and nice. 495 00:35:56,806 --> 00:35:59,583 They were a span of ages, a span of races. 496 00:35:59,697 --> 00:36:03,373 They were tailor-made for a political rally. 497 00:36:03,490 --> 00:36:06,843 To a politician, it was like a birthday cake times twelve. 498 00:36:08,177 --> 00:36:10,048 You have managed to make 499 00:36:10,649 --> 00:36:13,649 the many persons associated with Peoples Temple part of a family. 500 00:36:13,714 --> 00:36:16,179 If you are in need of healthcare, you get healthcare. 501 00:36:16,250 --> 00:36:19,103 If you�re in need of legal assistance of some sort, you get that. 502 00:36:19,182 --> 00:36:21,177 If you�re in need of transportation, you get that. 503 00:36:21,271 --> 00:36:24,283 And that�s the kind of religious thing that I am excited about, 504 00:36:24,284 --> 00:36:25,884 and have some respect for. 505 00:36:26,157 --> 00:36:31,979 When vice presidential candidate, Walter Mondale, came to San Francisco, 506 00:36:32,067 --> 00:36:36,435 Jim Jones was part of the entourage that boarded his private jet. 507 00:36:37,047 --> 00:36:41,275 When Rosalyn Carter came to San Francisco, 508 00:36:41,372 --> 00:36:44,107 she gave Jim Jones a private audience. 509 00:36:44,948 --> 00:36:49,377 Jim Jones had political power that few people, 510 00:36:49,378 --> 00:36:52,378 let alone preachers, could have imagined. 511 00:36:59,633 --> 00:37:01,813 Jim Jones represented the Peoples Temple 512 00:37:01,877 --> 00:37:05,052 as a progressive movement that was threatened. 513 00:37:05,112 --> 00:37:09,491 That there were outside forces who didn�t want us to do what we were doing. 514 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:10,967 And it was the government. 515 00:37:13,365 --> 00:37:16,993 The government was infiltrating and wiretapping 516 00:37:17,416 --> 00:37:20,258 and trying to kill people or assassinate people. 517 00:37:20,341 --> 00:37:22,165 That�s what was happening. 518 00:37:24,201 --> 00:37:27,047 He was always paranoid that someone was going to get in 519 00:37:27,048 --> 00:37:28,248 and try to kill him, 520 00:37:28,371 --> 00:37:31,426 that they had two people that had dedicated their lives, 521 00:37:31,510 --> 00:37:33,793 that they were going to jump in front of Jones and take the bullet, 522 00:37:33,794 --> 00:37:36,094 kind of like the secret service so to speak. 523 00:37:37,236 --> 00:37:40,097 Jim started changing a lot in the seventies. 524 00:37:40,298 --> 00:37:42,098 He was taking drugs. 525 00:37:42,718 --> 00:37:45,230 I think he said it was his kidneys at the time. 526 00:37:45,342 --> 00:37:48,166 And he was getting more and more paranoid. 527 00:37:48,367 --> 00:37:50,367 Incredibly paranoid. 528 00:37:50,927 --> 00:37:52,442 There was always threats. 529 00:37:52,443 --> 00:37:56,743 Always, always, always, always threats. They were there. 530 00:37:56,832 --> 00:38:00,097 They were just about to try to destroy us 531 00:38:00,462 --> 00:38:05,173 if we weren�t always viligant about our movement. 532 00:38:09,981 --> 00:38:12,768 There was a fire in the San Francisco Temple. 533 00:38:12,861 --> 00:38:16,594 The Temple was burned down and had to be rebuilt. 534 00:38:17,067 --> 00:38:20,083 The fire proved they are out to get us. 535 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,601 They so don�t want us to do what we�re doing; 536 00:38:22,683 --> 00:38:23,844 they�ve burned down the Temple. 537 00:38:23,898 --> 00:38:26,457 They�ll do anything to keep us from doing what we�re doing. 538 00:38:26,517 --> 00:38:28,920 So we have to be even stronger. 539 00:38:28,992 --> 00:38:30,669 What about the fact that the Ku Klux Klan 540 00:38:30,670 --> 00:38:33,170 has increased one hundred times in its membership? 541 00:38:33,214 --> 00:38:36,471 Where? Not Mississippi, I�m talking about New York State. 542 00:38:37,673 --> 00:38:41,926 It�s the church�s duty to have a place of protection for its people. 543 00:38:45,368 --> 00:38:50,468 December of �75, ninety of us went by plane, into Guyana, 544 00:38:50,587 --> 00:38:54,107 and saw where we were building the community there. 545 00:38:54,205 --> 00:38:56,152 See, they�ve made progress on the road 546 00:38:56,238 --> 00:38:59,017 and leveled it, clear in to five miles. 547 00:38:59,152 --> 00:39:03,868 And you�re seeing in the distance, housing complexes, that are being built. 548 00:39:04,758 --> 00:39:09,639 What I saw that creation as being was building a city 549 00:39:09,725 --> 00:39:15,319 where we could move and raise our children, outside of the oppression 550 00:39:15,435 --> 00:39:19,220 and the racism of the United States of America. 551 00:39:22,353 --> 00:39:27,380 When I first went into Jonestown, it was just a footpath in the rainforest. 552 00:39:30,508 --> 00:39:33,148 We had Indians in front of us with machetes, 553 00:39:33,149 --> 00:39:35,949 and we had Indians behind us with machetes. 554 00:39:39,048 --> 00:39:43,196 Three-hundred miles into the jungle, we literally built a city 555 00:39:43,246 --> 00:39:45,614 in the middle of the jungle, in the middle of nowhere. 556 00:39:45,686 --> 00:39:49,645 Hello family. It�s been a... it�s such a joy and great pleasure being here, 557 00:39:49,731 --> 00:39:52,220 because of Father�s love. We are trying to make, 558 00:39:52,297 --> 00:39:55,421 and we are making a place of refuge for all of you here. 559 00:39:56,285 --> 00:39:59,528 There is no, nothing at all that I would... 560 00:40:00,129 --> 00:40:01,629 that I have any holdings here. 561 00:40:01,630 --> 00:40:06,530 I do not want to go back in any way, shape or form to the States. 562 00:40:06,644 --> 00:40:10,903 I love it here and this is the place where all of you are going to be. 563 00:40:14,533 --> 00:40:17,203 Pretty soon we were seeing film footage 564 00:40:17,272 --> 00:40:20,777 of the first crew that went down there. 565 00:40:22,301 --> 00:40:25,045 We all wanted to go. I wanted to go. 566 00:40:25,390 --> 00:40:27,948 It looked like... like freedom. 567 00:40:36,927 --> 00:40:40,945 Now, will each of you give a very fond embrace, 568 00:40:40,946 --> 00:40:44,446 a salutary kiss of greeting to your neighbor, 569 00:40:44,639 --> 00:40:47,732 and let�s fill this atmosphere with warmth and love. 570 00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:54,163 We thought of ourselves as one big family that did handle our own discipline. 571 00:40:55,176 --> 00:41:01,164 I was in a lot of the meetings where people were spanked or beaten, and I... 572 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,414 I was slapped once, also in a public meeting. 573 00:41:05,532 --> 00:41:07,788 People were brought up front and asked... 574 00:41:08,067 --> 00:41:10,002 had to tell who they had slept with 575 00:41:10,368 --> 00:41:14,884 and who they had sneaked off to a restaurant with. 576 00:41:15,017 --> 00:41:18,239 There wasn�t a week that went by that I wasn�t called up on the floor 577 00:41:18,566 --> 00:41:21,451 because of my behavior, because of my attitude. 578 00:41:21,452 --> 00:41:25,263 �Stanley Clayton, up, front, center.� 579 00:41:25,734 --> 00:41:27,414 He would ask people, 580 00:41:27,498 --> 00:41:28,882 �What do you think we ought to do with them? 581 00:41:28,957 --> 00:41:30,732 Do you think they ought to get a good boxing?� 582 00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:33,888 And then he�d get a resounding roar, �Yes!� 583 00:41:34,067 --> 00:41:37,077 You might fight five people in one night. 584 00:41:37,462 --> 00:41:40,416 Well, you know, you�re very tired! 585 00:41:40,644 --> 00:41:44,363 I�ve seen situations where they actually knocked the person out 586 00:41:44,492 --> 00:41:47,578 and actually took water and threw water back on him, 587 00:41:47,579 --> 00:41:49,479 woke him up, and whooped him some more. 588 00:41:49,695 --> 00:41:53,471 I had welts really bad, and when I went to work the next day, 589 00:41:53,550 --> 00:41:57,308 one of my employees noticed the welts when I sat down. 590 00:41:57,456 --> 00:41:59,296 And I just broke down and told her. 591 00:41:59,385 --> 00:42:01,208 She didn�t even know I was Peoples Temple. 592 00:42:01,335 --> 00:42:04,674 And she called the manager of the station up 593 00:42:05,109 --> 00:42:07,771 and they talked to me about leaving. 594 00:42:07,874 --> 00:42:11,034 I couldn�t say goodbye to my son or my husband 595 00:42:11,582 --> 00:42:14,199 because at that point, it was like the Gestapo, 596 00:42:14,303 --> 00:42:16,030 the families were turning in each other. 597 00:42:16,103 --> 00:42:19,327 If I had said goodbye, one of them would have reported me. 598 00:42:20,610 --> 00:42:24,418 It�s kind of like when you get married and you have this ideal. 599 00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:27,531 And you�re, you know, you�re in love and then, 600 00:42:27,532 --> 00:42:31,332 you know, the honeymoon wears off and reality sets in. 601 00:42:31,611 --> 00:42:34,096 And most people, once the going gets rough, 602 00:42:34,172 --> 00:42:36,664 don�t jump out immediately. 603 00:42:39,134 --> 00:42:43,357 In one planning commission meeting, Jim was getting notes, kind of love notes, 604 00:42:43,419 --> 00:42:45,861 from one of the members on the planning commission. 605 00:42:45,940 --> 00:42:48,715 Jones is sitting there calmly and so another lady said, 606 00:42:48,784 --> 00:42:50,209 �Well, I don�t know why you keep doing that. 607 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,223 What makes you think you�ve got something that he wants anyway?� 608 00:42:53,224 --> 00:42:54,449 And so another woman says, 609 00:42:54,519 --> 00:42:56,322 �Well, you know what? You ought to just take off your clothes 610 00:42:56,323 --> 00:42:58,823 and show him what you got. You ain�t got nothing.� 611 00:42:58,935 --> 00:43:02,007 And so, by this time, they looked back to Jones 612 00:43:02,176 --> 00:43:05,426 and so he looks over his glasses, and he nods with approval. 613 00:43:05,487 --> 00:43:07,391 �Yeah, that�s a good idea.� 614 00:43:07,472 --> 00:43:13,181 She was to be totally naked and she was down to nothing but her skin, 615 00:43:13,886 --> 00:43:18,229 not even any shoes on, you know, no bra, no panties, no nothing. 616 00:43:18,276 --> 00:43:20,927 Then they begin to say what her breasts looked like, 617 00:43:21,003 --> 00:43:23,125 her stomach, butt, vagina, you name it. 618 00:43:23,213 --> 00:43:25,536 Everything they could think of, they were saying. 619 00:43:25,595 --> 00:43:27,738 By this time, her face is red, 620 00:43:27,815 --> 00:43:32,042 her body�s almost red from embarrassment, and I noticed something. 621 00:43:32,116 --> 00:43:34,723 Jones was sitting, looking over his sunglasses, 622 00:43:34,823 --> 00:43:37,139 but he had a smile on his face 623 00:43:37,242 --> 00:43:40,911 like he�s really enjoying this woman being torn down. 624 00:43:41,018 --> 00:43:44,868 I have a conscious memory of sitting there, thinking to myself, 625 00:43:44,985 --> 00:43:46,880 �This is wrong.� 626 00:43:47,015 --> 00:43:52,196 And I didn�t do a damned thing to stand up and say, �This is wrong.� 627 00:43:52,289 --> 00:43:55,986 It�s like a child in a dysfunctional family. 628 00:43:56,230 --> 00:44:00,267 On a certain level, it�s normal, you know? 629 00:44:02,268 --> 00:44:05,368 I just kind of took everything in stride. 630 00:44:05,648 --> 00:44:10,692 But then we felt like we had gotten involved and gotten in so deep that 631 00:44:11,693 --> 00:44:13,393 it was actually no way out. 632 00:44:21,097 --> 00:44:24,460 I had traveled on Bus Seven, which was Jim�s bus. 633 00:44:26,141 --> 00:44:28,520 And he sat down next to me. 634 00:44:30,621 --> 00:44:32,521 And I was sitting there and I thought, 635 00:44:32,734 --> 00:44:38,542 �That�s weird, it smells like alcohol next to me.� 636 00:44:39,474 --> 00:44:43,768 And he leaned over and he said, �Do you know what you do to me?� 637 00:44:46,163 --> 00:44:49,583 He had informed me that I was to come in... On Bus Seven, 638 00:44:49,584 --> 00:44:53,584 there was a room in the back for just him. 639 00:44:53,702 --> 00:44:56,483 He had books. He had a desk. He had a bed. 640 00:44:58,274 --> 00:45:00,638 When everyone got off the bus at the rest stop, 641 00:45:01,147 --> 00:45:04,830 I went into his little room and I sat there and waited for him. 642 00:45:06,846 --> 00:45:12,761 And finally he opened the door, and without any talk or anything, 643 00:45:12,962 --> 00:45:15,760 he just pulled down his pants and... 644 00:45:17,761 --> 00:45:19,761 and had sex with me. 645 00:45:22,269 --> 00:45:25,164 And as I lay there frightened, 646 00:45:25,373 --> 00:45:31,339 not sure what to do, and as I shivered, he�d say to me, 647 00:45:31,780 --> 00:45:35,475 �This is for you. I�m doing this for you, Debbie.� 648 00:45:44,956 --> 00:45:48,168 Well, in 1975 it was a mayoral election in San Francisco. 649 00:45:48,254 --> 00:45:51,818 A conservative candidate and a liberal candidate, George Moscone. 650 00:45:54,315 --> 00:45:59,222 Jones had several hundred people who would go door-to-door Election Day. 651 00:45:59,232 --> 00:46:03,459 Instead of a group that might give you twenty or thirty of these people, 652 00:46:03,460 --> 00:46:06,460 or a hundred, you had three or four hundred. 653 00:46:07,682 --> 00:46:10,369 The Moscone election was very close. 654 00:46:10,556 --> 00:46:14,098 The margin of victory was probably no more than 4,000. 655 00:46:14,204 --> 00:46:19,302 So you had to credit a big chunk of decisive votes to Peoples Temple. 656 00:46:21,673 --> 00:46:25,341 The reward for the election of George Moscone 657 00:46:25,486 --> 00:46:30,943 was the appointment of Jim Jones as Chairman of the City Housing Authority. 658 00:46:33,860 --> 00:46:36,629 What was once a really boring meeting, all of a sudden, 659 00:46:36,673 --> 00:46:39,699 became like really interesting when Jim Jones became the head of it 660 00:46:39,749 --> 00:46:41,565 because we all came down on the buses. 661 00:46:41,606 --> 00:46:44,598 And we were instructed that when Jim came in, we stood, 662 00:46:44,645 --> 00:46:47,696 and when he left or spoke, we�d stand and clap. 663 00:46:47,759 --> 00:46:50,814 The sheer staginess, the controlled atmosphere 664 00:46:50,815 --> 00:46:53,215 that sort of enclosed this guy, 665 00:46:53,311 --> 00:46:56,483 made him so unusual, so different than the norm, 666 00:46:56,684 --> 00:46:59,384 that it made me very curious. 667 00:47:00,752 --> 00:47:02,124 My biggest problem was getting somebody 668 00:47:02,183 --> 00:47:06,418 to sort of talk to me about the Church in kind of conversational terms. 669 00:47:08,217 --> 00:47:12,006 I had become friends with some of the various defectors, 670 00:47:12,007 --> 00:47:14,507 and one of the defectors told me that 671 00:47:14,553 --> 00:47:17,415 she was going to speak publicly about Jones. 672 00:47:18,010 --> 00:47:21,111 And I said to her, �Well, if you�re going to speak publicly, 673 00:47:21,199 --> 00:47:24,914 I�m going to speak with you. I�m not going to let you do this alone.� 674 00:47:26,007 --> 00:47:30,129 I finally heard from some ex-members who heard 675 00:47:30,222 --> 00:47:33,887 I was interested in writing a story about the Temple for�New West�magazine, 676 00:47:33,977 --> 00:47:35,874 and they took a chance. They called me and some of them said, 677 00:47:35,875 --> 00:47:37,675 you know, �You don�t know nothing about the Church. 678 00:47:37,731 --> 00:47:40,987 Wait until I tell you what I went through.� 679 00:47:42,514 --> 00:47:44,175 Before the article was going to break, 680 00:47:44,176 --> 00:47:48,276 Jim convinced the publisher that she needed to read it to him. 681 00:47:48,514 --> 00:47:52,092 He was on one phone and I was on taping the other end of it, 682 00:47:52,184 --> 00:47:54,742 while somebody else listened on another one. 683 00:47:55,153 --> 00:47:59,529 Jim didn�t understand that there was no way he could talk her down 684 00:47:59,830 --> 00:48:02,930 from whatever this article was going to say. 685 00:48:03,074 --> 00:48:05,674 And as she continues to read this article, 686 00:48:05,675 --> 00:48:07,775 he�s looking around the room at about five of us 687 00:48:07,876 --> 00:48:10,532 and you could tell that he�s becoming more and more anxious and as... 688 00:48:10,615 --> 00:48:13,851 and you know, his mouth becomes dryer and dryer. 689 00:48:13,952 --> 00:48:18,252 And he realizes that this article is going to be hugely damning, 690 00:48:19,614 --> 00:48:23,635 and it was midway through it he mouths to all of us in the room, 691 00:48:23,636 --> 00:48:25,136 �We�re leaving tonight.� 692 00:48:26,368 --> 00:48:28,420 They flew out to Guyana, 693 00:48:28,421 --> 00:48:31,621 six hours before that article was going to hit. 694 00:48:51,413 --> 00:48:55,768 When Jim Jones decided that there was too much pressure, 695 00:48:55,906 --> 00:48:59,450 too much trouble to stay in San Francisco, 696 00:48:59,625 --> 00:49:02,725 he ordered the move to Jonestown 697 00:49:02,826 --> 00:49:06,630 and it happened almost overnight. 698 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:11,013 People were being taken to airports. 699 00:49:11,517 --> 00:49:16,737 There were people who were packing their belongings and leaving their homes, 700 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:21,470 with virtually no explanation to their family members 701 00:49:21,471 --> 00:49:25,071 as to where they were going or why they were going. 702 00:49:26,658 --> 00:49:32,231 Fred Lewis came home and found that his wife had taken their seven children 703 00:49:32,592 --> 00:49:36,942 and gone to Guyana, along with all their possessions. 704 00:49:39,912 --> 00:49:43,262 My wife had gone over three months prior. 705 00:49:43,380 --> 00:49:44,641 And I was waiting on pins and needles, 706 00:49:44,642 --> 00:49:48,542 and I was talking to her probably twice a week on the hand radio 707 00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:51,949 and Leona Collier came up, 708 00:49:51,950 --> 00:49:55,150 �Ok, Eugene it�s your time, you�re going over.� 709 00:49:58,069 --> 00:50:00,829 Coming into Jonestown, you see a guard at the front gate 710 00:50:00,902 --> 00:50:03,689 and you�re all excited, you�re going down this road. 711 00:50:04,197 --> 00:50:06,281 The trailer comes to a stop 712 00:50:06,282 --> 00:50:09,082 and then you can see the wooden pathway that leads to the pavilion. 713 00:50:09,192 --> 00:50:10,800 And you�re just... 714 00:50:10,801 --> 00:50:13,801 you want to run, but you know, you just try, �Alright I�m gonna be cool.� 715 00:50:14,763 --> 00:50:16,777 And just as you reach the edge of the pavilion, 716 00:50:16,778 --> 00:50:18,678 people started rushing you that you knew, you know. 717 00:50:18,762 --> 00:50:22,302 My wife was there. Haven�t seen my mother in over a year or so. 718 00:50:22,398 --> 00:50:27,157 And I�m just hugging people and it�s just... it�s like, I have arrived 719 00:50:27,231 --> 00:50:29,805 and everything is going to be okay now. 720 00:50:44,313 --> 00:50:48,924 I have never been so totally happy or fulfilled in my life. 721 00:50:48,949 --> 00:50:50,640 I can�t begin to describe it. You could sit here 722 00:50:50,724 --> 00:50:53,697 and talk all day long and no words could describe the peace, the beauty, 723 00:50:53,759 --> 00:50:58,036 the sense of accomplishment and responsibility and camaraderie that�s here. 724 00:50:58,096 --> 00:51:01,898 It�s overwhelming, it really is. You can�t describe it. 725 00:51:02,167 --> 00:51:06,577 You know, it�s just such an exciting time. Everything was new and unique and... 726 00:51:07,083 --> 00:51:11,007 and just fun. You know, we just had fun with it as it grew. 727 00:51:14,359 --> 00:51:17,438 I just loved that we created what we ate, 728 00:51:17,486 --> 00:51:19,973 that we did all these jobs. 729 00:51:22,258 --> 00:51:24,856 What you think about your friends back down in the States? 730 00:51:24,878 --> 00:51:26,692 You think they should be here? 731 00:51:27,079 --> 00:51:30,403 Do you want to share with them this morning? Speak up! 732 00:51:30,478 --> 00:51:32,751 - I wished I could, share with them, - Can you do it? 733 00:51:33,353 --> 00:51:37,117 - but they won�t listen to me. - Would you do it? Won�t listen to you, huh? 734 00:51:38,820 --> 00:51:41,607 When you don�t have anything, 735 00:51:41,635 --> 00:51:43,678 you own Jonestown you are part of Jonestown. 736 00:51:43,702 --> 00:51:48,282 You were a shareholder of Jonestown if you were African American. 737 00:51:48,591 --> 00:51:54,378 It gave them the opportunity to... to really be a part of creating a utopia. 738 00:52:35,344 --> 00:52:37,566 I think that Jim Jones took his group down there 739 00:52:37,625 --> 00:52:39,623 because he was afraid to face the publicity 740 00:52:39,624 --> 00:52:42,524 and answer the questions here in this country. 741 00:52:42,596 --> 00:52:45,067 I don�t think that he feels confident 742 00:52:45,099 --> 00:52:47,734 having people talk to their relatives. 743 00:52:47,804 --> 00:52:50,822 I think the only way he can survive and sustain what he started 744 00:52:50,866 --> 00:52:55,080 is to isolate all his followers from this country and from their families. 745 00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,590 The Concerned Relatives were the ex-members 746 00:52:58,654 --> 00:53:01,156 who wanted other family members, still in the church, 747 00:53:01,236 --> 00:53:02,913 to know they could leave. 748 00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,280 They wanted them to feel that there was an outside world, 749 00:53:06,322 --> 00:53:08,613 that Jones was wrong about telling people they could never leave the church, 750 00:53:08,683 --> 00:53:11,975 and that they would be treated badly in the real world. 751 00:53:12,250 --> 00:53:17,815 The Concerned Relatives prompted FCC�investigation of Peoples Temple. 752 00:53:17,894 --> 00:53:22,588 They organized letter-writing campaigns to public officials, to members of Congress. 753 00:53:22,679 --> 00:53:27,631 They were incredibly effective in mobilizing government 754 00:53:27,729 --> 00:53:30,677 and media interest in Peoples Temple. 755 00:53:30,738 --> 00:53:33,229 He was talking integration. He was talking helping people. 756 00:53:33,267 --> 00:53:36,069 He was talking better this and better that. 757 00:53:36,070 --> 00:53:39,070 What about now? What�s your impression now? 758 00:53:40,113 --> 00:53:44,103 My impression now, that those are fronts for him. 759 00:53:44,104 --> 00:53:46,404 I think he�s gone crazy. 760 00:53:53,740 --> 00:53:58,501 When Jim Jones wasn�t there, things tended to be a little bit lighter. 761 00:53:59,641 --> 00:54:01,847 You know, people would be dancing or singing. 762 00:54:01,848 --> 00:54:04,848 There would be music in different cottages. 763 00:54:06,619 --> 00:54:10,627 But when Jones was present, it was very, very dark. 764 00:54:10,724 --> 00:54:12,847 It was almost like a dark cloud. 765 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,016 In Jonestown, there was a speaker system 766 00:54:20,017 --> 00:54:22,017 and only Jim spoke on it. 767 00:54:22,083 --> 00:54:26,443 And it went twenty-four hours a day and he would tape himself. 768 00:54:26,543 --> 00:54:29,144 So, in the middle of the night, all through the night, 769 00:54:29,145 --> 00:54:31,345 his voice was talking to you. 770 00:54:31,410 --> 00:54:34,889 The United States is calling for the removal of all Blacks and Indians. 771 00:54:34,890 --> 00:54:36,090 So is England. 772 00:54:36,139 --> 00:54:41,408 They want to have their immigrant Black, Indian population removed in six months. 773 00:54:41,836 --> 00:54:45,302 We had no other radio or T.V. or communication with parents 774 00:54:45,385 --> 00:54:51,327 or any kind of, you know, update that could show us, really, 775 00:54:51,378 --> 00:54:56,407 that there�s a whole other thing going on besides what Jim was interpreting for us. 776 00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,569 I make my stand clear. 777 00:54:58,670 --> 00:55:02,670 Give us our liberty or give us our death. 778 00:55:03,026 --> 00:55:05,658 No matter where you were, you could hear. 779 00:55:06,285 --> 00:55:10,246 You could hear it in your... in your bunk at night. 780 00:55:10,337 --> 00:55:12,809 You could hear it when you�re in the outhouse. 781 00:55:12,910 --> 00:55:16,610 You could hear it when you were working in the field. 782 00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,164 You... you could hear it all the time. 783 00:55:20,219 --> 00:55:23,171 At least on those terms, we choose our death 784 00:55:23,269 --> 00:55:25,440 and no one chooses it for us. 785 00:55:25,641 --> 00:55:27,741 Don�t try to take any of our children. 786 00:55:28,226 --> 00:55:33,897 There was this pervasive sense of being under attack in Jonestown. 787 00:55:34,010 --> 00:55:37,626 He told them that things were just getting worse in the United States, 788 00:55:37,705 --> 00:55:39,539 they couldn�t go back home. 789 00:55:39,605 --> 00:55:43,425 And not only that, but these forces were traveling to Guyana 790 00:55:43,465 --> 00:55:45,472 to destroy them there. 791 00:55:45,551 --> 00:55:48,259 You can�t know how much of a conspiracy there is 792 00:55:48,260 --> 00:55:49,860 in the U.S. these days. 793 00:55:50,037 --> 00:55:52,079 Maybe it�s economics? Who knows what it is? 794 00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,880 I�m not able to say. But I do know it�s real. 795 00:55:55,025 --> 00:55:58,272 It�s obvious that Martin Luther King was murdered by conspiracy, 796 00:55:58,273 --> 00:55:59,773 Malcolm X, Senator Kennedy� 797 00:55:59,835 --> 00:56:03,538 Over the summer of 1978, all of us noticed that 798 00:56:03,602 --> 00:56:05,924 Jim was seemed to be getting sicker. 799 00:56:06,029 --> 00:56:10,302 His harangues over the loudspeaker were getting more and more frantic, 800 00:56:10,406 --> 00:56:13,703 and really just sounding more and more insane. 801 00:56:14,251 --> 00:56:19,017 He had gotten to the place that even his voice was becoming slurred, 802 00:56:19,301 --> 00:56:21,534 and he said it was because 803 00:56:21,565 --> 00:56:25,547 the nurse was giving him the wrong medications. 804 00:56:25,693 --> 00:56:29,142 But yet still, everyday it was getting worse and worse. 805 00:56:30,744 --> 00:56:32,594 Every night, at some point, 806 00:56:32,595 --> 00:56:35,595 his voice would come over the loudspeaker and he�d say, 807 00:56:35,797 --> 00:56:38,078 �I�m sending somebody out tonight, 808 00:56:38,149 --> 00:56:41,056 somebody you know, somebody you trust 809 00:56:41,152 --> 00:56:44,154 and they�re going to act like they want to leave. 810 00:56:44,293 --> 00:56:48,577 But this is a loyalty test and you need to turn them in.� 811 00:56:50,647 --> 00:56:54,203 A father would turn in a son. A husband would turn in a wife. 812 00:56:54,275 --> 00:56:57,572 A small child would turn in a parent. 813 00:56:59,417 --> 00:57:04,416 There was no freedom to express to one another what was going on, 814 00:57:04,474 --> 00:57:07,688 because everything was suspect. 815 00:57:08,084 --> 00:57:13,169 The most forbidden thing to express was to leave. 816 00:57:14,538 --> 00:57:17,853 He had a real issue with separation. 817 00:57:18,854 --> 00:57:21,154 People could not leave him. 818 00:57:22,352 --> 00:57:28,159 He took it as a betrayal to the cause, and to him personally. 819 00:57:29,553 --> 00:57:34,688 He said, �I really want to get away from him. By Christmas, I will be gone.� 820 00:57:34,794 --> 00:57:39,255 By Christmas, do you want to be gone? By Christmas, do you want to be gone?! 821 00:57:39,325 --> 00:57:41,894 By Christmas, do you want to be gone?!! 822 00:57:41,953 --> 00:57:45,279 I would ask you, could I go home and make a trip to see my people? 823 00:57:45,363 --> 00:57:48,885 I have the power to send you home by Christmas, 824 00:57:48,979 --> 00:57:51,370 but it�s not on Transworld Airlines. 825 00:57:51,497 --> 00:57:55,508 It�s blasphemy! It�s blasphemy to talk about going back 826 00:57:55,591 --> 00:57:57,937 when you have not been given any approval! 827 00:57:57,990 --> 00:58:00,226 Do you want to go home? 828 00:58:00,712 --> 00:58:03,647 - No. - Well, then be seated and shut your mouth 829 00:58:03,648 --> 00:58:05,805 and don�t be in my face anymore. 830 00:58:11,371 --> 00:58:15,217 Congressman Ryan was unique in the political sphere. 831 00:58:15,287 --> 00:58:19,225 He had this hands-on approach to legislating. 832 00:58:19,226 --> 00:58:22,726 He just didn�t take no for an answer. 833 00:58:22,798 --> 00:58:26,814 So when he was in the state assembly, he went to Folsom State Prison 834 00:58:27,247 --> 00:58:29,236 and spent a week as an inmate 835 00:58:29,322 --> 00:58:33,103 to understand the prison issues and prison reform. 836 00:58:34,221 --> 00:58:36,607 He became concerned 837 00:58:36,608 --> 00:58:41,808 because a number of residents in San Mateo County had become 838 00:58:41,868 --> 00:58:43,380 members of the Peoples Temple 839 00:58:43,381 --> 00:58:46,381 and family members started contacting him, 840 00:58:46,437 --> 00:58:49,373 concerned about their whereabouts 841 00:58:49,406 --> 00:58:54,537 and concerned about whether or not they were being held against their will. 842 00:58:55,230 --> 00:58:59,508 The word we were getting was that there was an armed encampment. 843 00:59:01,019 --> 00:59:04,456 It was enough for the Congressman to say, 844 00:59:04,511 --> 00:59:07,889 �You know what? I want to go find out for myself.� 845 00:59:17,458 --> 00:59:21,632 There was a lot of preparation for Congressman Ryan�s visit. 846 00:59:21,709 --> 00:59:26,144 There was all these different scenarios that were presented. 847 00:59:26,399 --> 00:59:29,250 He wasn�t going to let him in. He was going to let him in. 848 00:59:30,025 --> 00:59:31,513 We were going to wait for them to come in 849 00:59:31,514 --> 00:59:33,914 and we were going to kill 'em all when they came in. 850 00:59:34,795 --> 00:59:37,122 I was very fearful about making the trip. 851 00:59:37,512 --> 00:59:39,808 I had a copy of the Congressman�s will 852 00:59:39,809 --> 00:59:44,209 and placed it in a particular drawer in my desk, 853 00:59:45,608 --> 00:59:47,530 just in case. 854 00:59:54,967 --> 00:59:58,948 We flew in sometime in the afternoon, about 6pm. 855 00:59:59,747 --> 01:00:04,737 We saw this beautiful sign, �Welcome to Jonestown.� 856 01:00:06,255 --> 01:00:11,270 As we approached Jonestown, it was spartan, 857 01:00:11,768 --> 01:00:15,696 but very impressive. 858 01:00:15,879 --> 01:00:18,507 How could you not be impressed that 859 01:00:18,584 --> 01:00:23,171 out of the jungles of Guyana, they had carved out a community? 860 01:00:23,962 --> 01:00:28,092 They had crops growing. They had cabins. 861 01:00:28,151 --> 01:00:31,406 They had a little medical clinic, a little daycare area. 862 01:00:32,263 --> 01:00:36,241 Flour, rice, black-eyed peas, 863 01:00:37,113 --> 01:00:38,713 more peas. 864 01:00:38,714 --> 01:00:40,372 We have different containers surrounding the place 865 01:00:40,505 --> 01:00:44,270 we couldn�t go through all of the tremendous inventory they built up. Kool-aid... 866 01:00:54,515 --> 01:00:56,838 When Ryan came, he came on a Friday night 867 01:00:57,839 --> 01:01:00,839 and we put on a reception for him. 868 01:01:01,707 --> 01:01:05,838 The songs that we sang that night, it was people saying, 869 01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:08,622 �This is who we are and this is what we are about.� 870 01:01:23,157 --> 01:01:25,791 It was a vibrant community. 871 01:01:26,192 --> 01:01:29,792 I would never have imagined that twenty-four hours later, 872 01:01:29,861 --> 01:01:32,089 those people would be dead. 873 01:01:53,242 --> 01:01:57,027 Everything up to that point was, was... was good. 874 01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:00,691 Everybody was thrilled that Ryan was thrilled. 875 01:02:00,792 --> 01:02:02,492 He just kind of praised us. 876 01:02:02,561 --> 01:02:05,920 I think that all of you know that I am here to find out more about... 877 01:02:06,006 --> 01:02:08,057 Questions have been raised about your operation here. 878 01:02:08,169 --> 01:02:09,525 And I can tell you right now, 879 01:02:09,526 --> 01:02:12,426 that from the few conversations I�ve had with some of the folks here 880 01:02:12,531 --> 01:02:13,803 already this evening, 881 01:02:13,804 --> 01:02:16,804 that whatever these comments are, there are some people here who believe 882 01:02:16,892 --> 01:02:20,104 that this is the best thing they�ve ever had in their whole lives. 883 01:02:28,658 --> 01:02:32,893 That response to him was spontaneous. It was loud. 884 01:02:33,012 --> 01:02:35,741 It was emotional. 885 01:02:38,643 --> 01:02:44,211 What I was feeling was, this is an opportunity that I can vocalize 886 01:02:44,351 --> 01:02:47,607 how much I believe in what we are doing here. 887 01:02:47,841 --> 01:02:49,135 The reporter next to me said, 888 01:02:49,319 --> 01:02:51,266 �I�ve never felt anything like this before,� and I said, 889 01:02:51,311 --> 01:02:55,050 �Because you haven�t felt anything like this before.� 890 01:03:02,003 --> 01:03:04,975 I actually felt pretty good overall. 891 01:03:05,313 --> 01:03:09,519 This went probably as well as it possibly could go, so far. 892 01:03:14,110 --> 01:03:18,331 When Congressman Ryan came, I wanted to pass him a note 893 01:03:18,418 --> 01:03:21,276 that said, �Help us get out of Jonestown.� 894 01:03:23,599 --> 01:03:28,532 When one of the reporters was walking around toward the edge of the pavilion, 895 01:03:28,895 --> 01:03:34,755 I stuck the note in the fold of his arm and it fell to the ground. 896 01:03:35,449 --> 01:03:38,183 And so I picked up the note and I... and I gave it back to him. 897 01:03:38,184 --> 01:03:41,684 I said, �You dropped something,� and this little boy, about nine years old, 898 01:03:41,763 --> 01:03:44,224 started saying, �He passed a note! He passed a note!� 899 01:03:44,300 --> 01:03:47,582 Don Harris, who was the�NBC�reporter, 900 01:03:48,537 --> 01:03:51,426 came up to me and Congressman Ryan 901 01:03:51,498 --> 01:03:57,222 and handed us these two notes from people that wanted to leave. 902 01:03:57,657 --> 01:03:59,157 So at that point, 903 01:03:59,958 --> 01:04:04,658 we knew that something was very, very wrong. 904 01:04:18,488 --> 01:04:24,277 I was like the first to rise up the following morning. 905 01:04:25,246 --> 01:04:30,644 It was a bright sunny day, but it was a dark day. 906 01:04:31,342 --> 01:04:33,285 It just didn�t feel right. 907 01:04:33,351 --> 01:04:36,844 We were there, supposed to interview some of the family members 908 01:04:36,952 --> 01:04:39,257 to ask them why they cannot leave. 909 01:04:39,260 --> 01:04:40,772 Are you happy here? 910 01:04:40,797 --> 01:04:43,654 Oh, I should say I am. I�ve never been any happier in my life. 911 01:04:43,662 --> 01:04:45,162 Do you want to stay? 912 01:04:45,163 --> 01:04:48,718 Definitely. I certainly do. 913 01:04:48,798 --> 01:04:52,481 Some people have said they couldn�t leave if they wanted to. 914 01:04:52,590 --> 01:04:54,310 Do you think you could? 915 01:04:54,389 --> 01:04:57,005 Yeah. If I really wanted to I�m... I�m free to go, 916 01:04:57,039 --> 01:05:00,383 if I really wanted to. I would be free to go. 917 01:05:00,573 --> 01:05:04,239 Well, I believe it. I�ve been here a few days and I have... 918 01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:06,240 I have absolutely no complaints at all. 919 01:05:06,351 --> 01:05:09,352 It is really nice here. It is really nice. 920 01:05:09,410 --> 01:05:11,755 And I�ll be leaving in a couple weeks 921 01:05:11,853 --> 01:05:15,060 and they could come with me, but they said they didn�t want to come. 922 01:05:18,797 --> 01:05:22,537 Literally, out of nowhere, this storm came blowing in. 923 01:05:22,629 --> 01:05:26,061 The sky turned black. The wind came up and it just, 924 01:05:26,154 --> 01:05:28,564 torrential rain. 925 01:05:29,431 --> 01:05:35,321 But what I personally felt was that evil itself blew into Jonestown. 926 01:05:38,909 --> 01:05:41,029 It was about 11:30 in the morning. 927 01:05:41,230 --> 01:05:44,130 Edith Parks walked up to Jackie Speier and said, 928 01:05:44,190 --> 01:05:47,198 �I�m being held prisoner here, I want to go home.� 929 01:05:47,315 --> 01:05:49,967 Now do I both understand you to say that 930 01:05:49,968 --> 01:05:52,968 you both want to leave Jonestown on this date, 931 01:05:53,072 --> 01:05:55,325 November 18th, 1978? 932 01:05:55,395 --> 01:05:58,182 Immediately, the whole vibe changed. 933 01:05:58,249 --> 01:06:00,591 I mean this reporter said, �We got our story.� 934 01:06:00,592 --> 01:06:02,592 You know, �The story�s here. It�s happening right now.� 935 01:06:02,638 --> 01:06:07,542 Jim Jones came to talk to me and the first thing he said was, 936 01:06:07,836 --> 01:06:11,750 �Don�t say anything to the reporters. They�re all liars.� 937 01:06:12,627 --> 01:06:15,123 The last words I heard from Jim Jones was, 938 01:06:15,124 --> 01:06:18,957 �I just want you to know that you can come back to Jonestown 939 01:06:19,017 --> 01:06:21,478 and visit your son any time you want.� 940 01:06:21,590 --> 01:06:25,331 Last night, someone came and passed me this note. 941 01:06:26,234 --> 01:06:28,489 He�s the one that I�m just talking about. 942 01:06:29,690 --> 01:06:32,490 This is the man that wants to leave his son here. 943 01:06:33,884 --> 01:06:37,712 Doesn�t it concern you, though, that this man, for whatever reason, 944 01:06:37,827 --> 01:06:39,689 one of the people in your group� 945 01:06:39,748 --> 01:06:43,550 People play games, friend. They lie. They lie. 946 01:06:43,626 --> 01:06:44,950 What can I do about liars? 947 01:06:45,038 --> 01:06:49,295 Are you people going to leave us. I just beg you, please leave us. 948 01:06:49,412 --> 01:06:51,355 Bill, we will bother nobody. 949 01:06:51,356 --> 01:06:53,456 Anybody wants to get out of here, can get out of here. 950 01:06:53,574 --> 01:06:55,246 They have no problem about getting out of here. 951 01:06:55,287 --> 01:06:59,321 They come and go all the time. I don�t know what kind of games people like. 952 01:06:59,354 --> 01:07:02,721 Who... people like publicity. Some people do. I don�t. 953 01:07:03,337 --> 01:07:04,535 But some people like publicity. 954 01:07:04,608 --> 01:07:08,189 But if it�s so damned bad, why is he leaving his son here? 955 01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:10,783 Can you give me a good reason for that? 956 01:07:10,851 --> 01:07:15,067 When word got out that people were leaving, 957 01:07:16,585 --> 01:07:18,141 all hell broke out. 958 01:07:18,205 --> 01:07:20,685 You bring those kids back here! 959 01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:23,152 You bring them back! 960 01:07:23,504 --> 01:07:25,703 Don�t you touch my kids! 961 01:07:26,593 --> 01:07:28,512 More people wanted to leave. 962 01:07:28,597 --> 01:07:33,155 And then Jim Jones started to make pleas to people, saying, 963 01:07:33,246 --> 01:07:36,583 �You can�t leave. You�re my people. 964 01:07:37,060 --> 01:07:39,163 Why do you want to leave?� 965 01:07:40,659 --> 01:07:44,924 It was an emotional roller coaster for everyone there. 966 01:07:44,981 --> 01:07:47,381 Don�t you touch my kids! 967 01:07:48,582 --> 01:07:49,682 Mother! 968 01:07:50,183 --> 01:07:52,983 You�re not taking my kids! No! 969 01:07:54,903 --> 01:07:57,136 Jones was in the pavilion. 970 01:07:58,137 --> 01:07:59,337 At one point, he said, 971 01:07:59,401 --> 01:08:00,987 �Well, of course you can go if you want.� 972 01:08:01,021 --> 01:08:03,815 But clearly, that was not the message. 973 01:08:03,851 --> 01:08:06,563 The message was, �You are betraying me.� 974 01:08:08,684 --> 01:08:12,115 I went and I spoke to the Congressman in the pavilion. 975 01:08:13,041 --> 01:08:18,844 I told him, �You are in extreme danger. You need to leave.� 976 01:08:20,343 --> 01:08:23,044 And he said, �You don�t have anything to worry about.� 977 01:08:23,166 --> 01:08:27,002 He says, �You have the Congressional shield of protection around you.� 978 01:08:27,684 --> 01:08:32,659 And I just looked at him like he was totally insane. 979 01:08:33,729 --> 01:08:36,025 Congressman Ryan was directly across from me, 980 01:08:36,123 --> 01:08:39,731 and I saw this Temple member walk up behind him 981 01:08:39,820 --> 01:08:42,430 and he was actually crying and shaking 982 01:08:42,504 --> 01:08:45,818 and all of a sudden, he pulled out this knife and said, 983 01:08:45,862 --> 01:08:48,070 �All right, motherfucker, you�re gonna die.� 984 01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:51,521 We all jumped on him, and there were just screams of horror 985 01:08:51,594 --> 01:08:53,183 everywhere. 986 01:08:53,301 --> 01:08:58,823 We heard this great uproar in the pavilion and the truck stopped. 987 01:08:59,272 --> 01:09:02,665 Then, shortly thereafter, Congressman Ryan starts walking out 988 01:09:02,737 --> 01:09:05,084 in this bloodstained shirt. 989 01:09:06,636 --> 01:09:10,616 Those of us in the news media viewed Congressman Ryan 990 01:09:10,724 --> 01:09:15,312 as a form of protection, a shield of the United States. 991 01:09:16,433 --> 01:09:19,549 What happened there in those few moments 992 01:09:19,623 --> 01:09:23,352 made it clear that nobody was safe. 993 01:09:28,323 --> 01:09:31,480 I went back to my cottage. 994 01:09:31,616 --> 01:09:34,899 All I wanted to do was see my wife and my son. 995 01:09:35,748 --> 01:09:38,026 Gloria and I were laid down on the cot and we just held each other 996 01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,390 and I said, �You know, I think we may all die.� 997 01:09:40,505 --> 01:09:44,334 And she said, she kind of looked at me and then she looked down at our son, 998 01:09:44,419 --> 01:09:46,428 who was playing on the floor with the toys, 999 01:09:46,502 --> 01:09:48,468 and she said, �You�re scaring him.� 1000 01:09:48,648 --> 01:09:52,435 I had literally opened my mouth to say we need to leave, 1001 01:09:52,665 --> 01:09:54,390 when there was an announcement on the loud speaker, 1002 01:09:54,391 --> 01:09:57,591 �Will everybody report to the pavilion for a meeting.� 1003 01:10:09,319 --> 01:10:12,629 We drove back to the airstrip, Port Kaituma. 1004 01:10:14,133 --> 01:10:19,815 All of a sudden, we saw a dump truck from far away arriving to this airstrip. 1005 01:10:20,109 --> 01:10:23,312 We realized these people catch up from people from Jim Jones, 1006 01:10:23,313 --> 01:10:26,313 they�re very close lieutenant to Jim Jones. 1007 01:10:29,540 --> 01:10:31,124 These three guys, 1008 01:10:31,125 --> 01:10:33,425 they get off the truck and walk around this area 1009 01:10:33,622 --> 01:10:35,718 as though they were looking for somebody. 1010 01:10:35,791 --> 01:10:37,721 They looked in people�s faces. 1011 01:10:37,806 --> 01:10:40,347 They stared at us for a little bit, but they didn�t say one word. 1012 01:10:40,442 --> 01:10:42,278 They didn�t ask anything. 1013 01:10:42,385 --> 01:10:44,509 Right away, they walked back to the truck. 1014 01:10:45,622 --> 01:10:50,300 They drove this truck all the way across the airstrip 1015 01:10:50,442 --> 01:10:53,116 and stop on this side of the plane, 1016 01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,550 so literally they cut us off from the jungle. 1017 01:10:58,567 --> 01:11:02,480 We never know there�s people hidden inside the dump truck. 1018 01:11:02,573 --> 01:11:05,797 The moment it stopped, they start shooting right away. 1019 01:11:10,073 --> 01:11:13,735 Everybody ran toward the plane, on this side of plane. 1020 01:11:13,825 --> 01:11:16,140 They try to hide underneath the wheels. 1021 01:11:16,195 --> 01:11:20,431 Then the Congressman ran under the plane, and I sort of followed suit 1022 01:11:20,547 --> 01:11:23,756 and got behind one of the tires. 1023 01:11:26,346 --> 01:11:30,600 All you can hear is the gun "pop, pop, pop" goes off constantly. 1024 01:11:31,017 --> 01:11:34,267 We lie flat on the tarmac at that moment. 1025 01:11:34,762 --> 01:11:39,320 But shortly afterwards, I heard my partner, the cameraman. 1026 01:11:39,428 --> 01:11:42,719 He yelled, �Oh shit.� He said he got... he got shot. He was sitting up. 1027 01:11:45,207 --> 01:11:48,464 There were people tumbling and yelling 1028 01:11:48,665 --> 01:11:51,965 and letting out cries as they were hit. 1029 01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:56,263 I was hit in my arm and wrist. 1030 01:11:56,624 --> 01:12:00,072 I felt a tremendous explosion, right next to my head. 1031 01:12:00,182 --> 01:12:04,911 I got a tremendous pain ran through my arm and on my shoulder. 1032 01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:07,927 I was really shaking, but I didn�t move. 1033 01:12:08,018 --> 01:12:10,857 I took the pain and hold still. 1034 01:12:11,309 --> 01:12:16,136 I was lying on my side, pretending that I was dead, 1035 01:12:16,266 --> 01:12:18,538 with my head down. And... 1036 01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:28,204 they came and shot me at point blank, 1037 01:12:28,505 --> 01:12:30,505 point blank range. 1038 01:12:31,971 --> 01:12:34,968 I remember someone coming to me 1039 01:12:35,037 --> 01:12:37,612 and telling me that Congressman Ryan was dead. 1040 01:12:37,691 --> 01:12:41,313 But I was at a point where I didn�t know 1041 01:12:41,413 --> 01:12:44,781 how much more time I was going to be alive. 1042 01:12:49,362 --> 01:12:52,634 The gun�s dead and all we can hear this one engine was still running. 1043 01:12:52,729 --> 01:12:56,204 So all you could hear the engine noise. And that�s it. 1044 01:13:07,563 --> 01:13:10,909 We walked up to the pavilion together, with everybody else. 1045 01:13:10,986 --> 01:13:14,104 It was very quiet. It was very somber. It was very sad, 1046 01:13:14,242 --> 01:13:16,945 but it wasn�t a death march. 1047 01:13:17,420 --> 01:13:19,158 The congressman is dead! 1048 01:13:21,791 --> 01:13:24,553 You think they�re going to allow us to get by with this? 1049 01:13:26,214 --> 01:13:29,927 You must be insane. They�ll torture some of our children here. 1050 01:13:29,971 --> 01:13:31,952 They�ll torture our people. They�ll torture our seniors. 1051 01:13:31,953 --> 01:13:33,653 We can not have this! 1052 01:13:34,071 --> 01:13:36,001 He said, �Well, we got to go. 1053 01:13:36,602 --> 01:13:39,502 We got to get out of here. We got to... we got to go to sleep. 1054 01:13:40,381 --> 01:13:42,635 Get the solution together.� 1055 01:13:42,719 --> 01:13:46,583 If we can�t live in peace, then let�s die in peace. 1056 01:13:48,988 --> 01:13:51,617 Maria Katsaris walked up to him and whispered in his ear, 1057 01:13:51,685 --> 01:13:55,000 and he looked at her and said, �Is there anyway to make it taste less bitter?� 1058 01:13:55,980 --> 01:13:58,022 And she said, �No, no apparently not.� 1059 01:13:58,117 --> 01:14:00,008 And he said, �Is it quick?� 1060 01:14:00,111 --> 01:14:03,404 And she said, �Yeah, it�s supposed to be quick.� 1061 01:14:03,531 --> 01:14:07,781 Anyone that has any dissenting opinion, please speak. 1062 01:14:08,805 --> 01:14:11,667 When we destroy ourselves, we�re defeated. 1063 01:14:12,045 --> 01:14:14,890 We let them, the enemies, defeat us. 1064 01:14:15,081 --> 01:14:18,139 On the last day of Jonestown, Christine Miller stood up and said, 1065 01:14:18,206 --> 01:14:19,585 �I don�t want to die here. 1066 01:14:19,648 --> 01:14:23,210 Why are we going to throw all this away? We�ve worked too hard.� 1067 01:14:23,305 --> 01:14:26,348 I look at all the babies, and I think they deserve to live. 1068 01:14:26,446 --> 01:14:30,648 I agree, but also they deserve� What�s more, they deserve peace. 1069 01:14:32,463 --> 01:14:37,711 We all came here for peace. Is it too late for Russia? 1070 01:14:38,100 --> 01:14:41,305 She�s calling Jim Jones on some of the things that 1071 01:14:41,404 --> 01:14:44,386 he has promised them that they were going to do. 1072 01:14:45,139 --> 01:14:49,235 Jim had promised, as an alternative to them dying in Jonestown, 1073 01:14:49,322 --> 01:14:51,744 that they could go to the Soviet Union. 1074 01:14:51,826 --> 01:14:54,126 I�m listening to you. You asked me about Russia. 1075 01:14:54,199 --> 01:14:56,158 I�m right now making a call to Russia. 1076 01:14:56,258 --> 01:14:58,417 What more do you suggest? 1077 01:14:58,522 --> 01:15:00,599 Eventually, the rhetoric ratchets up enough 1078 01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:02,300 that she is shouted down. 1079 01:15:02,410 --> 01:15:05,917 Christine, your life has been extended to today. 1080 01:15:05,985 --> 01:15:08,597 That you�re standing there is because of him. 1081 01:15:09,899 --> 01:15:13,022 That�s when I noticed that there were armed guards 1082 01:15:13,096 --> 01:15:15,572 that had kind of taken positions up around the pavilion. 1083 01:15:15,773 --> 01:15:16,973 I�m thinking, 1084 01:15:17,076 --> 01:15:19,816 �Where did all of these fucking guns come from?� 1085 01:15:21,566 --> 01:15:26,045 Jones came down off the podium 1086 01:15:26,146 --> 01:15:29,846 and he said, �Hey, we got to do this. 1087 01:15:30,460 --> 01:15:32,269 We got to... we got to go, 1088 01:15:32,370 --> 01:15:35,903 that if we don�t go this way, we going to go like this.� 1089 01:15:37,213 --> 01:15:39,993 They were coming, taking like newborn babies 1090 01:15:40,194 --> 01:15:41,894 out of their mothers� arms. 1091 01:15:42,044 --> 01:15:44,827 Mother, mother, mother, mother, mother please. 1092 01:15:45,582 --> 01:15:49,047 Mother, please, please, please don�t� 1093 01:15:49,048 --> 01:15:51,048 Don�t do this! Don�t do this! 1094 01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:56,337 Lay down your life with your child. But don�t do this. 1095 01:15:59,980 --> 01:16:03,638 There was a young kid, his name was Sunny 1096 01:16:04,139 --> 01:16:06,139 and when he came inside, 1097 01:16:06,440 --> 01:16:09,040 he bumped into me. 1098 01:16:09,250 --> 01:16:11,373 At that same time, he�s falling to the ground 1099 01:16:11,374 --> 01:16:13,774 and he�s going into convulsion. 1100 01:16:13,862 --> 01:16:16,397 Hurry, hurry, my children, hurry! 1101 01:16:16,398 --> 01:16:19,398 All right, let us not fall into the hands of the enemy. 1102 01:16:19,447 --> 01:16:22,838 Hurry my children! Hurry! 1103 01:16:22,898 --> 01:16:26,972 I grabbed the kid from the shoulders up, 1104 01:16:27,273 --> 01:16:31,473 and in that process of taking him out of the pavilion, 1105 01:16:31,918 --> 01:16:34,096 this kid died in my arms. 1106 01:16:34,097 --> 01:16:38,097 I mean, I just felt the life go out of him. 1107 01:16:38,190 --> 01:16:43,152 To me... at that point, I knew that this shit was real. 1108 01:16:44,546 --> 01:16:47,974 Die with respect, die with a degree of dignity. 1109 01:16:48,129 --> 01:16:51,149 It�s nothing to death, it�s just stepping over into another plane. 1110 01:16:51,150 --> 01:16:53,250 Don�t, don�t be this way! 1111 01:16:55,175 --> 01:16:57,268 I ain�t never used the term �suicide,� 1112 01:16:57,269 --> 01:16:59,969 and I�m not gonna never use the term �suicide.� 1113 01:17:00,103 --> 01:17:02,835 That man killed... was killing us. 1114 01:17:03,875 --> 01:17:06,893 As I walked up to the back of the pavilion, 1115 01:17:06,894 --> 01:17:10,594 I saw a woman named Rosie on the ground crying, 1116 01:17:10,595 --> 01:17:12,595 holding her dead baby. 1117 01:17:12,689 --> 01:17:15,707 There were maybe eight or nine other people who were dying, 1118 01:17:15,708 --> 01:17:17,808 or in the process of dying. 1119 01:17:17,963 --> 01:17:23,609 Inside, I just wanted things to stop. Please, just let me catch my breath, 1120 01:17:23,755 --> 01:17:26,689 let me figure out what�s happening here. 1121 01:17:28,552 --> 01:17:31,872 I looked to my right and I saw my wife, 1122 01:17:31,876 --> 01:17:34,385 with our son in her arms 1123 01:17:34,786 --> 01:17:38,386 and poison being injected into his mouth. 1124 01:17:39,783 --> 01:17:42,635 My son was dead and he was frothing at the mouth. 1125 01:17:42,707 --> 01:17:45,758 You know, cyanide makes people froth at the mouth. 1126 01:17:46,985 --> 01:17:48,816 My wife died in my arms 1127 01:17:48,931 --> 01:17:51,788 and my dead baby son was in her arms. 1128 01:17:51,849 --> 01:17:56,307 And I held her and said, �I love you, I love you,� because it�s all I could say. 1129 01:18:00,407 --> 01:18:02,212 She died in my arms, man. 1130 01:18:02,298 --> 01:18:05,391 Quickly! Quickly! Quickly! Quickly! Quickly! 1131 01:18:07,373 --> 01:18:09,823 Where is the vat? The vat, the vat� 1132 01:18:09,948 --> 01:18:12,509 Bring it here, so the adults can begin. 1133 01:18:14,701 --> 01:18:18,146 My wife came up to me, she didn�t have no tears in her eyes. 1134 01:18:18,194 --> 01:18:21,113 She just was... was just in a daze. 1135 01:18:22,161 --> 01:18:26,979 �My mother, my grandmother, my sister, my brother, they gone." 1136 01:18:27,142 --> 01:18:30,892 You know she said, �Just take me. Just take me 1137 01:18:31,093 --> 01:18:34,893 and just lay me down next to my grandmamma.� 1138 01:18:35,349 --> 01:18:38,149 And she went up to that Kool-Aid, 1139 01:18:38,150 --> 01:18:40,050 to that death barrel 1140 01:18:40,550 --> 01:18:43,926 and she just, didn�t hesitate, just took it and drunk it 1141 01:18:43,993 --> 01:18:47,179 and then told me to hold her, to take her, and I did. 1142 01:18:47,248 --> 01:18:49,269 And she died in my arms. 1143 01:18:50,470 --> 01:18:52,770 And once I laid her down 1144 01:18:52,819 --> 01:18:56,595 and she told me how she wanted to lay with her grandmother, 1145 01:18:56,855 --> 01:19:00,096 I... at that point, knew that 1146 01:19:00,397 --> 01:19:03,097 I didn�t have no reason to be here no more. 1147 01:19:04,568 --> 01:19:07,301 We laid it down, we got tired. 1148 01:19:11,338 --> 01:19:13,063 We didn�t commit suicide. 1149 01:19:13,064 --> 01:19:15,364 We committed an act of revolutionary suicide 1150 01:19:15,468 --> 01:19:19,724 protesting the conditions of an inhumane world. 1151 01:19:24,793 --> 01:19:26,793 We were just fucking slaughtered. 1152 01:19:27,994 --> 01:19:30,035 Fucking slaughtered. 1153 01:19:31,036 --> 01:19:33,036 There was nothing dignified about it. 1154 01:19:33,131 --> 01:19:35,041 Had nothing to do with revolutionary suicide, 1155 01:19:35,124 --> 01:19:36,984 nothing to do about making a fucking statement, 1156 01:19:37,385 --> 01:19:40,385 it was just senseless waste, 1157 01:19:40,620 --> 01:19:43,289 senseless waste and death. 1158 01:19:46,934 --> 01:19:49,479 �To whomever finds this note. 1159 01:19:50,480 --> 01:19:52,480 Collect all the tapes, 1160 01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:55,904 all the writing, all the history. 1161 01:19:56,618 --> 01:19:58,880 The story of this movement, 1162 01:19:59,002 --> 01:20:03,923 this action, must be examined over and over. 1163 01:20:04,545 --> 01:20:07,134 We did not want this kind of ending. 1164 01:20:07,635 --> 01:20:10,635 We wanted to live, to shine, 1165 01:20:10,756 --> 01:20:15,947 to bring light to a world that is dying for a little bit of love.� 1166 01:20:16,785 --> 01:20:19,073 I never believed in Heaven in my whole life. 1167 01:20:19,074 --> 01:20:21,074 You know, that�s not the way I operated 1168 01:20:21,130 --> 01:20:23,813 but when I was in Guyana, and when I�d watch the sun rise, 1169 01:20:23,869 --> 01:20:27,094 I actually thought there was a heaven on Earth. 1170 01:20:31,603 --> 01:20:34,846 And now, I can�t believe in heaven anymore. 1171 01:20:35,359 --> 01:20:38,203 �There�s quiet as we leave this world. 1172 01:20:38,336 --> 01:20:40,200 The sky is gray. 1173 01:20:40,401 --> 01:20:45,201 People file by us slowly and take the somewhat bitter drink. 1174 01:20:45,706 --> 01:20:48,100 Many more must drink.� 1175 01:20:48,714 --> 01:20:51,591 I�m saddened because it didn�t work out. 1176 01:20:51,769 --> 01:20:54,514 Because it just seemed so beautiful. 1177 01:20:55,302 --> 01:20:58,140 And I�ll say this about November 18th, 1178 01:20:58,270 --> 01:21:01,889 I felt I�d lost a family 1179 01:21:02,944 --> 01:21:05,847 and I knew I�d lost my children. 1180 01:21:07,060 --> 01:21:10,857 �A teeny kitten sits next to me watching. 1181 01:21:11,071 --> 01:21:13,264 A dog barks. 1182 01:21:13,656 --> 01:21:17,105 The birds gather on the telephone wires. 1183 01:21:17,295 --> 01:21:21,934 Let all the story of this Peoples Temple be told.� 1184 01:21:23,705 --> 01:21:26,746 We were people that... We wanted to make a change. 1185 01:21:26,912 --> 01:21:31,202 It�s a shame it didn�t happen. It might not never happen. 1186 01:21:31,372 --> 01:21:34,276 But one thing I can say, at least we tried 1187 01:21:34,332 --> 01:21:38,751 and we didn�t sit back and wait on the laurels for somebody else to try it. 1188 01:21:38,808 --> 01:21:41,740 Yes, we tried it. Yes, it was a failure. 1189 01:21:41,808 --> 01:21:43,968 Yes, it was very tragic. 1190 01:21:44,070 --> 01:21:47,288 But at least we tried. 1191 01:21:48,586 --> 01:21:52,850 �If nobody understands, it matters not. 1192 01:21:53,368 --> 01:21:55,719 I am ready to die now. 1193 01:21:56,043 --> 01:21:59,068 Darkness settles over Jonestown 1194 01:21:59,569 --> 01:22:02,569 on its last day on Earth.� 1195 01:22:03,137 --> 01:22:06,004 I never had any dreams of Jonestown 1196 01:22:06,605 --> 01:22:09,005 until this one dream came. 1197 01:22:09,656 --> 01:22:12,383 I could see myself in Jonestown walking, 1198 01:22:12,481 --> 01:22:16,224 and when I looked to my left, there was my son. 1199 01:22:17,008 --> 01:22:20,797 He was standing in the middle of a duffel bag. 1200 01:22:20,943 --> 01:22:24,475 And just right when I got ready to reach to touch his head, 1201 01:22:24,552 --> 01:22:26,195 he pulled the bag up like this. 1202 01:22:26,424 --> 01:22:30,232 And the bag fell and he was gone. 106572

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