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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,689 --> 00:00:03,827 - Any time you're playing music 2 00:00:03,827 --> 00:00:07,517 for the crowd instead of yourself, 3 00:00:07,517 --> 00:00:09,413 you're fucked. 4 00:00:09,413 --> 00:00:13,379 ["I'm Now" by Mudhoney playing] 5 00:00:18,793 --> 00:00:22,482 ♪ Well, I still see that look in her eyes 6 00:00:22,482 --> 00:00:25,206 ♪ Passing through security, waving goodbye 7 00:00:25,206 --> 00:00:28,413 ♪ I had no idea that would be the last time 8 00:00:28,413 --> 00:00:33,068 ♪ I had no idea about that look in her eyes 9 00:00:33,068 --> 00:00:35,620 ♪ No 10 00:00:36,724 --> 00:00:39,586 ♪ Aw, that look in her eyes 11 00:00:43,793 --> 00:00:45,448 ♪ That look in her eyes 12 00:00:45,448 --> 00:00:48,310 ♪ Well, the black light was my baby 13 00:00:48,310 --> 00:00:51,862 ♪ And the strobe light was my mind 14 00:00:51,862 --> 00:00:55,206 ♪ The past made no sense, the future looks tense 15 00:00:55,206 --> 00:00:58,310 ♪ The past made no sense, the future looks tense 16 00:00:58,310 --> 00:00:59,827 ♪ I'm now 17 00:01:02,413 --> 00:01:04,931 - [Voiceover] You turned 21 this year. 18 00:01:15,965 --> 00:01:18,344 - [Voiceover] It's not a matter of referencing the past, 19 00:01:18,344 --> 00:01:20,655 although you can, and there's certainly 20 00:01:20,655 --> 00:01:22,000 things you can draw from. 21 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,758 It's not a matter of trying to be the future, 22 00:01:25,758 --> 00:01:27,758 'cause you don't know what the future is. 23 00:01:27,758 --> 00:01:29,482 You know, their point is, we do it now. 24 00:01:29,482 --> 00:01:33,482 We do it our way, and we continually do it now, 25 00:01:33,482 --> 00:01:35,000 day after day after day, 26 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,137 which is why they've survived. 27 00:01:37,137 --> 00:01:39,448 ♪ I'm now 28 00:01:43,103 --> 00:01:47,137 ["Touch Me I'm Sick" by Mudhoney] 29 00:01:56,689 --> 00:01:59,000 ♪ I've been bad 30 00:01:59,827 --> 00:02:02,275 ♪ I've been worse 31 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,103 ♪ I'm a creep 32 00:02:05,172 --> 00:02:08,137 ♪ Yeah, I'm a jerk 33 00:02:08,137 --> 00:02:10,137 ♪ C'mon 34 00:02:10,551 --> 00:02:13,655 ♪ Touch me, I'm sick 35 00:02:18,241 --> 00:02:19,448 - You know, I'm grateful this whole thing 36 00:02:19,448 --> 00:02:21,551 didn't peter out 15 years ago, 37 00:02:21,551 --> 00:02:24,034 that, you know, people still give a shit about us 38 00:02:24,034 --> 00:02:28,275 and that we can go virtually wherever we want, 39 00:02:28,275 --> 00:02:30,206 you know, when we want to, 40 00:02:30,206 --> 00:02:31,827 and people are happy to have us. 41 00:02:31,827 --> 00:02:35,137 I mean, I feel incredibly lucky to be able to do that. 42 00:02:35,137 --> 00:02:37,137 - I mean, we're pretty much outside of 43 00:02:37,137 --> 00:02:40,482 any kind of cultural existence. 44 00:02:40,482 --> 00:02:43,655 We exist in the past in a lot of people's minds, you know? 45 00:02:43,655 --> 00:02:46,000 So there's a certain amount of nostalgia and stuff to it, 46 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,862 but I mean, you can't get away from that, really. 47 00:02:48,862 --> 00:02:49,862 If it's valuable to other people, 48 00:02:49,862 --> 00:02:51,413 if they like it, that's great, 49 00:02:51,413 --> 00:02:54,310 but I think we would do it regardless. [laughing] 50 00:02:54,310 --> 00:02:56,827 We would still play in the basement sometimes, I think, 51 00:02:56,827 --> 00:02:59,137 you know, no matter what, so... 52 00:02:59,137 --> 00:03:01,862 Ah, can I get a beer? 53 00:03:01,862 --> 00:03:05,379 [crowd cheering] 54 00:03:08,931 --> 00:03:11,137 - People oftentimes believe 55 00:03:11,137 --> 00:03:13,586 that if they have heard of a band, 56 00:03:13,586 --> 00:03:16,448 that the people in that band are well-to-do 57 00:03:16,448 --> 00:03:19,448 and that they have a super glamorous lifestyle 58 00:03:19,448 --> 00:03:21,758 and life is easy 59 00:03:21,758 --> 00:03:26,103 and it's not always that, especially with independent bands. 60 00:03:27,137 --> 00:03:31,103 So the funny thing is when we send out our packages, 61 00:03:31,103 --> 00:03:33,448 it's actually listed as Mark Arm, 62 00:03:33,448 --> 00:03:37,034 as the person having sent the package to anybody, 63 00:03:37,034 --> 00:03:40,103 so this is to record stores who receive our records, 64 00:03:40,103 --> 00:03:43,896 these are to mail-order customers who get our stuff. 65 00:03:43,896 --> 00:03:47,344 Mark Arm sends all of our shit to everybody 66 00:03:47,344 --> 00:03:49,551 in the world, basically. 67 00:03:49,551 --> 00:03:53,000 - It's unbelievable that a legend 68 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,482 have to work a normal work to live in, 69 00:03:56,482 --> 00:04:00,379 they can't live only doing the rock and roll. 70 00:04:00,379 --> 00:04:03,620 Some people think that making rock and roll 71 00:04:03,620 --> 00:04:06,206 as a second work, as a hobby, 72 00:04:06,206 --> 00:04:11,103 helps to stay pure to the spirit. 73 00:04:11,103 --> 00:04:13,206 - That's a working man's aesthetic. 74 00:04:13,206 --> 00:04:16,482 I'm gonna certainly make sure that whatever I'm sending out 75 00:04:16,482 --> 00:04:19,862 is gonna go to the right address on time 76 00:04:19,862 --> 00:04:23,310 to the person that it's addressed to. 77 00:04:23,310 --> 00:04:25,827 You know, in a way, that's what a great rock band does. 78 00:04:25,827 --> 00:04:27,482 You know, they go in, they write their songs, 79 00:04:27,482 --> 00:04:29,517 and they go out and play them 80 00:04:29,517 --> 00:04:33,241 and they address them to the people they wanna reach, 81 00:04:33,241 --> 00:04:36,586 and they do it directly, and they do it with no bullshit. 82 00:04:36,586 --> 00:04:39,758 - Right, OK, I'm here backstage at the [mumbling] Theaters 83 00:04:39,758 --> 00:04:41,586 [laughing] with Mudhoney, 84 00:04:41,586 --> 00:04:43,000 and we're just going over some of the 85 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,689 finer parts of their European tour. 86 00:04:44,689 --> 00:04:46,517 - So, night after night, another motel room, 87 00:04:46,517 --> 00:04:48,172 another backstage, are you getting tired 88 00:04:48,172 --> 00:04:51,862 of the rock and roll life at all, Mr. Mudhoney People? 89 00:04:51,931 --> 00:04:55,482 [rock playing] 90 00:04:55,586 --> 00:04:57,448 - Here's a fuckin' band that got it right. 91 00:04:57,448 --> 00:04:58,931 It was like the coolest thing I've heard 92 00:04:58,931 --> 00:05:02,068 since like Fun House, as far as that kinda rock goes. 93 00:05:02,068 --> 00:05:04,896 I mean, Steve and Mark's fuzzy guitars together 94 00:05:04,896 --> 00:05:06,068 fuckin' sounded awesome. 95 00:05:06,068 --> 00:05:08,655 Their ability to kind of connect the 60s 96 00:05:08,655 --> 00:05:13,206 to 80s punk rock, and they're a very 60s-sounding band. 97 00:05:13,206 --> 00:05:14,965 They don't get a lot of credit for that. 98 00:05:14,965 --> 00:05:16,448 - There's a certain amount of chaos happening 99 00:05:16,448 --> 00:05:19,482 because Steve's guitar tone is so distorted, 100 00:05:19,482 --> 00:05:22,137 but in a beautiful way, just the perfect way. 101 00:05:22,137 --> 00:05:24,034 A distorted guitar that was like a jagged knife 102 00:05:24,034 --> 00:05:26,413 ripping through like a whale's belly, 103 00:05:26,413 --> 00:05:28,448 and then the guts come out 104 00:05:28,448 --> 00:05:30,586 with Mark's voice when he's screaming. 105 00:05:30,586 --> 00:05:34,172 [screaming] 106 00:05:34,689 --> 00:05:36,310 - I remember when they first started, 107 00:05:36,310 --> 00:05:38,551 sort of being a little puzzled and going, 108 00:05:38,551 --> 00:05:42,586 "Are you sure you want the guitars to be this dirty?" 109 00:05:42,586 --> 00:05:45,241 I think was probably the only comment I made 110 00:05:45,241 --> 00:05:46,965 at the beginning of the session, like, 111 00:05:46,965 --> 00:05:49,310 "Boy, that's pretty dirty, guys." 112 00:05:49,310 --> 00:05:52,275 Of course, the word, the adjective "grungy" 113 00:05:52,275 --> 00:05:55,103 had not occurred to any of us, I think, at that point. 114 00:05:55,103 --> 00:05:56,862 [laughing] 115 00:05:56,862 --> 00:06:00,275 But it's pretty goddamn grungy. 116 00:06:00,275 --> 00:06:02,620 [laughing] 117 00:06:04,137 --> 00:06:05,620 - The Seattle scene was theirs. 118 00:06:05,620 --> 00:06:07,758 Being with them was being chauffeured 119 00:06:07,758 --> 00:06:10,310 through town by the mayors. 120 00:06:10,310 --> 00:06:12,137 The parties were all fantastic, 121 00:06:12,137 --> 00:06:14,862 and it was just a great moment in time. 122 00:06:14,862 --> 00:06:17,517 - The critics said, "Well, Mudhoney's this" 123 00:06:17,517 --> 00:06:18,827 and, "Blah ba dee blah," 124 00:06:18,827 --> 00:06:20,827 and, "They're unsuccessful because 125 00:06:20,827 --> 00:06:23,379 "they didn't have the success of Soundgarden and Pearl Jam," 126 00:06:23,379 --> 00:06:25,206 and it's like, "Fuck you!" 127 00:06:25,206 --> 00:06:28,620 That's a fucking amazing band! 128 00:06:28,620 --> 00:06:30,551 - They were the powder keg. 129 00:06:30,551 --> 00:06:32,344 They were the first great Seattle 130 00:06:32,344 --> 00:06:34,068 quote unquote "grunge band." 131 00:06:34,068 --> 00:06:37,344 [rock music] 132 00:06:39,551 --> 00:06:42,379 - No pretensions, no big egos, 133 00:06:42,379 --> 00:06:46,206 no hassle, just 134 00:06:46,206 --> 00:06:48,517 having a good time all the time. 135 00:06:48,517 --> 00:06:51,034 - They are the people who would be watching them. 136 00:06:51,034 --> 00:06:53,689 That's what makes them an incredibly honest band. 137 00:06:53,689 --> 00:06:54,862 - They got nice pants. 138 00:06:54,862 --> 00:06:56,034 - Amazing vintage guitars. 139 00:06:56,034 --> 00:06:59,448 - Yeah, good equipment, good hairdos. 140 00:06:59,448 --> 00:07:01,758 - Amazing songs. 141 00:07:01,758 --> 00:07:03,206 And they love to drink. 142 00:07:03,206 --> 00:07:06,379 - They would just pour beer and fill up everybody's glasses 143 00:07:06,379 --> 00:07:09,034 and you'd have the funnest fucking time 144 00:07:09,034 --> 00:07:10,896 you could ever imagine. 145 00:07:10,896 --> 00:07:12,172 - Everybody was welcome, actually, 146 00:07:12,172 --> 00:07:14,172 in the dressing room to party. 147 00:07:14,172 --> 00:07:16,068 We had like seven crates of beer 148 00:07:16,068 --> 00:07:18,482 and four bowls of strong liquor, 149 00:07:18,482 --> 00:07:21,896 and it would be gone before they would go. 150 00:07:21,896 --> 00:07:25,724 ♪ Revolution 151 00:07:31,206 --> 00:07:32,689 - [Voiceover] So you feel that you can communicate 152 00:07:32,689 --> 00:07:36,241 to the public regardless of any language barriers. 153 00:07:36,241 --> 00:07:37,827 - Well, I think the penis is international. 154 00:07:37,827 --> 00:07:39,862 - Dealing with those guys, you always kinda knew 155 00:07:39,862 --> 00:07:43,172 that you would get them aboard of an idea, 156 00:07:43,172 --> 00:07:44,275 but then they would take the idea 157 00:07:44,275 --> 00:07:45,655 and do it completely their own way, 158 00:07:45,655 --> 00:07:47,793 so there was a cheesy soundtrack that was coming out. 159 00:07:47,793 --> 00:07:49,206 It's a scene where a guy is running 160 00:07:49,206 --> 00:07:50,551 through a college campus, 161 00:07:50,551 --> 00:07:52,034 so they wrote a song called, "Run Shithead Run," 162 00:07:52,034 --> 00:07:54,206 and then they sent it off to the filmmaker. 163 00:07:54,206 --> 00:07:57,000 ♪ Run, run 164 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,344 ♪ Run 165 00:07:59,344 --> 00:08:02,896 ♪ Run, shithead, run 166 00:08:04,103 --> 00:08:07,137 - So that song is on the soundtrack 167 00:08:07,137 --> 00:08:10,034 and every once in awhile we get these nice little 168 00:08:10,034 --> 00:08:13,379 50-cent royalty checks for a song called "Run Shithead Run." 169 00:08:13,379 --> 00:08:15,862 - That was the last soundtrack we did. [laughing] 170 00:08:15,862 --> 00:08:19,620 [rock music] 171 00:08:31,413 --> 00:08:35,793 - They also were certainly leaders in 172 00:08:35,793 --> 00:08:39,275 sort of sculpting Seattle rock and roll history, 173 00:08:39,275 --> 00:08:41,827 from fashion to the music. 174 00:08:41,827 --> 00:08:44,172 - Take away Mudhoney, nothing would've happened. Nothing. 175 00:08:44,172 --> 00:08:46,068 I honestly believe that, because they got people 176 00:08:46,068 --> 00:08:49,689 from beyond the Pacific Northwest interested. 177 00:08:49,689 --> 00:08:53,758 [rock music] 178 00:09:02,103 --> 00:09:06,448 - They were, like, kind of inspired us to play harder. 179 00:09:07,896 --> 00:09:10,068 Going on after them was so hard all the time 180 00:09:10,068 --> 00:09:12,689 because they had so much energy. 181 00:09:12,689 --> 00:09:16,241 - I mean, it was these two guys with these shitty guitars 182 00:09:16,241 --> 00:09:18,310 rocking, just rocking out. 183 00:09:18,310 --> 00:09:21,517 [rock music] 184 00:09:21,517 --> 00:09:22,793 - [Voiceover] They'd throw out a trampoline. 185 00:09:22,793 --> 00:09:24,862 The set would start and they'd jump around 186 00:09:24,862 --> 00:09:26,896 and flail their guitars about. 187 00:09:26,896 --> 00:09:29,551 - I'd see Mark bend all the way backwards 188 00:09:29,551 --> 00:09:31,724 to where he was on his knees and all the way back 189 00:09:31,724 --> 00:09:33,103 and then he'd come back up, 190 00:09:33,103 --> 00:09:35,241 and they're flying around the stage 191 00:09:35,241 --> 00:09:37,000 like a bunch of marionettes. 192 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,517 - They reach a kind of apotheosis 193 00:09:38,517 --> 00:09:41,758 where everybody in the crowd had like an epiphanic moment 194 00:09:41,758 --> 00:09:45,310 where the future of music was revealed, just for a moment. 195 00:09:45,310 --> 00:09:49,379 [rock music] 196 00:10:08,586 --> 00:10:10,931 - They really motivated a lot of musicians 197 00:10:10,931 --> 00:10:13,965 and photographers and producers 198 00:10:13,965 --> 00:10:16,896 and you name it, they were just a motivational force. 199 00:10:16,896 --> 00:10:20,620 - Even in Seattle, where you had this gold rush 200 00:10:20,620 --> 00:10:23,413 for two, three, four years, 201 00:10:23,413 --> 00:10:27,689 this intense attention of media, 202 00:10:27,689 --> 00:10:29,551 record companies, business, 203 00:10:29,551 --> 00:10:32,241 the guys in Mudhoney were kind of seen as stable, 204 00:10:32,241 --> 00:10:35,344 as guys who actually had their shit together. 205 00:10:35,344 --> 00:10:36,655 - I've worked with a lot of other bands. 206 00:10:36,655 --> 00:10:37,965 They get together for sound check. 207 00:10:37,965 --> 00:10:39,689 When it's done, they all go their separate ways, 208 00:10:39,689 --> 00:10:42,068 and then they come back together for the show. 209 00:10:42,068 --> 00:10:45,103 The Mudhoney guys, except for the odd occasion 210 00:10:45,103 --> 00:10:48,103 where someone's got a friend in town or something like that, 211 00:10:48,103 --> 00:10:49,793 and a reason to go off on their own, 212 00:10:49,793 --> 00:10:52,275 they all just basically stick together, 213 00:10:52,275 --> 00:10:54,103 and I think that they're some of the best of friends. 214 00:10:54,103 --> 00:10:56,000 I guess put it that way. 215 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,724 ♪ I'm a creep, yeah 216 00:10:58,724 --> 00:11:00,413 ♪ And I'm a jerk 217 00:11:00,413 --> 00:11:04,241 ♪ C'mon, touch me, I'm sick 218 00:11:05,689 --> 00:11:08,758 ♪ I'm diseased 219 00:11:08,758 --> 00:11:11,931 ♪ And I don't mind 220 00:11:11,931 --> 00:11:15,482 ♪ Gonna make you love me 221 00:11:15,482 --> 00:11:18,206 ♪ 'Til the day we die 222 00:11:18,206 --> 00:11:20,517 ♪ Oh 223 00:11:20,517 --> 00:11:23,551 ♪ Touch me, I'm sick 224 00:11:25,103 --> 00:11:27,655 ♪ Come on 225 00:11:27,655 --> 00:11:31,068 ♪ Touch me, I'm sick 226 00:11:33,034 --> 00:11:35,931 ♪ Come on, baby, now come with me 227 00:11:35,931 --> 00:11:37,379 ♪ If you don't come 228 00:11:37,379 --> 00:11:39,000 ♪ If you don't come 229 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,000 ♪ If you don't come 230 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,689 ♪ You'll die alone 231 00:11:43,689 --> 00:11:47,172 [crowd cheering] 232 00:11:49,482 --> 00:11:50,896 - [Voiceover] Mark Arm, you just played Pukkelpop. 233 00:11:50,896 --> 00:11:52,241 What next? 234 00:11:52,241 --> 00:11:54,034 - I wanna get high! 235 00:11:54,034 --> 00:11:58,827 [rock music] 236 00:11:59,896 --> 00:12:02,241 I think my voice is basically genetic. 237 00:12:02,241 --> 00:12:06,034 I moved here when I was four years old. 238 00:12:06,034 --> 00:12:08,275 Before that, I'd been living in Germany 239 00:12:08,275 --> 00:12:09,931 on an air force base. 240 00:12:09,931 --> 00:12:13,000 I just, I guess, felt like kind of an outsider, 241 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,655 a foreigner, strange. 242 00:12:14,655 --> 00:12:15,896 Yeah, music was always around. 243 00:12:15,896 --> 00:12:18,379 My mom was an opera singer whose career 244 00:12:18,379 --> 00:12:22,448 got kind of cut off because of the Second World War. 245 00:12:22,448 --> 00:12:25,310 She was in Germany and, you know, kind of at the time 246 00:12:25,310 --> 00:12:27,068 that her career would've been taking off, 247 00:12:27,068 --> 00:12:29,793 that's when the war broke out. 248 00:12:29,793 --> 00:12:32,655 You know, I gravitated towards rock and roll. 249 00:12:32,655 --> 00:12:34,586 It was music that was kind of forbidden in my household, 250 00:12:34,586 --> 00:12:35,896 so that was like another kind of thing 251 00:12:35,896 --> 00:12:38,655 that was another attraction to it, 252 00:12:38,655 --> 00:12:40,413 and my parents had a Volkswagen, 253 00:12:40,413 --> 00:12:44,172 and the great thing about Volkswagen Bugs in those days 254 00:12:44,172 --> 00:12:45,586 was you could just go into them 255 00:12:45,586 --> 00:12:47,275 and turn on the radio and it would work, 256 00:12:47,275 --> 00:12:50,068 so I would listen to the top 40 radio station at the time 257 00:12:50,068 --> 00:12:53,275 and hope to hear, you know, the kind of more rocking songs. 258 00:12:53,275 --> 00:12:54,896 As a kid getting into punk rock, 259 00:12:54,896 --> 00:12:57,586 I kept reading about and hearing about 260 00:12:57,586 --> 00:12:59,103 this band The Stooges. 261 00:12:59,103 --> 00:13:02,310 The third album, "Raw Power," you could find as a cutout. 262 00:13:02,310 --> 00:13:04,275 It was like three dollars or something like that, 263 00:13:04,275 --> 00:13:07,241 but the first two records were impossible to find. 264 00:13:07,241 --> 00:13:11,000 I finally found them in a small record store in Oregon. 265 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,448 I bought the first one, listened to it a ton, 266 00:13:13,448 --> 00:13:14,862 and then like a week or two later, 267 00:13:14,862 --> 00:13:17,103 when I had enough money again, I bought "Fun House," 268 00:13:17,103 --> 00:13:19,931 and it was like, "Holy crap." 269 00:13:19,931 --> 00:13:22,965 You know, like, "This is it." 270 00:13:25,137 --> 00:13:29,448 Mr. Epp had been kind of an imaginary band in high school, 271 00:13:29,448 --> 00:13:31,000 named after a math teacher. 272 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,517 The full name of the band was Mr. Epp and the Calculations. 273 00:13:33,517 --> 00:13:36,310 At some point it kind of turned into a real band 274 00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:38,896 where we actually bought instruments. 275 00:13:38,965 --> 00:13:43,344 We would just get feedback and think we were Jimi Hendrix. 276 00:13:43,344 --> 00:13:46,827 You know, like the part in live Jimi Hendrix records 277 00:13:46,827 --> 00:13:50,000 between the songs. [laughing] 278 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,517 [rock scream] 279 00:13:51,517 --> 00:13:53,931 To kind of promote Mr. Epp, 280 00:13:53,931 --> 00:13:55,758 I wrote a letter to the editor 281 00:13:55,758 --> 00:13:58,000 from the point of view of someone 282 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,724 who had gone to see Mr. Epp and thought they were crap. 283 00:14:00,724 --> 00:14:02,241 I think I said something like, 284 00:14:02,241 --> 00:14:05,137 "They're pure shit, pure grunge." 285 00:14:05,137 --> 00:14:06,310 You know, that's not the first use 286 00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:08,241 of the word "grunge" to describe music. 287 00:14:08,241 --> 00:14:10,344 In Australia, in the early 80s, 288 00:14:10,344 --> 00:14:13,310 there was like The Scientists and The Beasts of Bourbon. 289 00:14:13,310 --> 00:14:15,000 Those bands were called grunge 290 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,103 by the press down there. 291 00:14:17,103 --> 00:14:18,655 Tex Perkins at one point was 292 00:14:18,655 --> 00:14:21,034 called the high priest of grunge, 293 00:14:21,034 --> 00:14:25,448 which apparently caused Tex to punch that guy in the face. 294 00:14:25,448 --> 00:14:26,655 - [Voiceover] But what we've all heard about 295 00:14:26,655 --> 00:14:28,517 is the so-called "grunge rock" from Seattle. 296 00:14:28,517 --> 00:14:32,206 Grunge is not a term Seattleites are particularly fond of. 297 00:14:32,206 --> 00:14:33,655 - You know, when all that shit was going on, 298 00:14:33,655 --> 00:14:34,965 I said, "Yeah, it's your fault, 299 00:14:34,965 --> 00:14:36,827 "you fucking invented grunge." 300 00:14:36,827 --> 00:14:41,206 - You didn't label the genre by just describing the sound. 301 00:14:41,206 --> 00:14:42,896 From there, so and so, 302 00:14:42,896 --> 00:14:45,482 "Oh, that's the genre reference we'll use." 303 00:14:45,482 --> 00:14:47,172 At the time, no one accepted it. 304 00:14:47,172 --> 00:14:48,448 Everyone thought, "What?" 305 00:14:48,448 --> 00:14:49,896 - Grunge is stuff that gets on your dishes 306 00:14:49,896 --> 00:14:51,379 that you try to scrub off. 307 00:14:51,379 --> 00:14:53,310 ♪ Losing myself again 308 00:14:53,310 --> 00:14:54,862 - If he coined the word, God bless him, 309 00:14:54,862 --> 00:14:56,275 he should be getting royalties. 310 00:14:57,620 --> 00:15:00,620 If he didn't, I think he should consider himself lucky, 311 00:15:00,620 --> 00:15:04,482 because it's a nasty word, and I think it actually 312 00:15:04,482 --> 00:15:06,000 became kind of an epithet. 313 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,758 It was a way to very briskly, conveniently, 314 00:15:10,758 --> 00:15:12,862 and almost dismissively describe 315 00:15:12,862 --> 00:15:14,655 a style of music that I think had 316 00:15:14,655 --> 00:15:18,344 much deeper roots in discontent. 317 00:15:18,344 --> 00:15:20,413 - You know, people, when they think of grunge, 318 00:15:20,413 --> 00:15:23,206 they think of, like, heavy, 319 00:15:23,206 --> 00:15:26,103 like a lot of trees and a lot of rain, and, 320 00:15:26,103 --> 00:15:29,793 I was gonna say mud. [laughing] 321 00:15:29,793 --> 00:15:31,344 - [Voiceover] I mean, it was just, essentially, 322 00:15:31,344 --> 00:15:34,241 a different way of saying "punk rock," I guess. 323 00:15:35,827 --> 00:15:36,965 - Just because you're nerd rock 324 00:15:36,965 --> 00:15:38,827 doesn't mean you're smarter than us. 325 00:15:38,827 --> 00:15:40,620 - Well, look, see these glasses? 326 00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:44,379 - [Voiceover] Steve invented kind of being a hip nerd. 327 00:15:44,379 --> 00:15:48,448 Back in the 80s, 90s, it was not cool to be a nerd, 328 00:15:48,448 --> 00:15:50,620 but Steve was like an intellectual. 329 00:15:50,620 --> 00:15:52,034 - [Voiceover] Steve Turner was called 330 00:15:52,034 --> 00:15:54,758 "the Eric Clapton of Grunge" in Rolling Stone Magazine. 331 00:15:54,758 --> 00:15:57,413 - "The Eric Clapton of grunge." [laughing] 332 00:15:57,413 --> 00:15:59,034 - The next records, still to this day, 333 00:15:59,034 --> 00:16:02,379 kind of like goes against the guitar solo whenever you can. 334 00:16:02,379 --> 00:16:05,206 - A lot of his old solos were almost like 335 00:16:05,206 --> 00:16:07,448 lampooning the idea of a guitar solo. 336 00:16:07,448 --> 00:16:09,448 They were anti-solos. 337 00:16:09,448 --> 00:16:13,793 [rock music] 338 00:16:17,793 --> 00:16:19,448 - My brother had an acoustic guitar 339 00:16:19,448 --> 00:16:21,448 and then he had the Beatles songbooks 340 00:16:22,551 --> 00:16:24,482 and the Eagles. 341 00:16:24,482 --> 00:16:27,448 Learned how to sing and play "Rocky Raccoon" 342 00:16:27,448 --> 00:16:30,241 and "Desperado" in eighth grade, 343 00:16:30,241 --> 00:16:31,655 and then I didn't touch a guitar again 344 00:16:31,655 --> 00:16:34,000 'til a couple years later, 345 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,172 after I'd gotten into punk rock a little bit. 346 00:16:36,172 --> 00:16:38,586 Black Flag and Devo kind of showed up at the same time. 347 00:16:38,586 --> 00:16:40,000 That summer, they came to Seattle 348 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,448 and that was my first rock concert I got to go see, 349 00:16:42,448 --> 00:16:45,034 and that was huge, because they used 350 00:16:45,034 --> 00:16:46,827 skaters in their videos. 351 00:16:46,827 --> 00:16:48,758 All the skateboarders around Seattle went to it, 352 00:16:48,758 --> 00:16:50,344 so it was this huge thing. 353 00:16:50,344 --> 00:16:52,206 That's why my parents figured they could allow me to go, 354 00:16:52,206 --> 00:16:54,724 because they figured a group of tin skaters 355 00:16:54,724 --> 00:16:57,517 couldn't possibly get into any trouble. [laughing] 356 00:16:57,517 --> 00:16:59,241 The punk scene was just so different 357 00:16:59,241 --> 00:17:02,172 from what I thought it was gonna be like, you know? 358 00:17:02,172 --> 00:17:03,689 And they seemed so much smarter 359 00:17:03,689 --> 00:17:07,517 and cooler to me than any other group I'd seen so far 360 00:17:07,517 --> 00:17:10,689 as far as at gatherings, social gatherings. 361 00:17:10,689 --> 00:17:13,896 - Steve and I early on had a kind of musical kinship. 362 00:17:13,896 --> 00:17:15,827 He was one of the few people who, 363 00:17:15,827 --> 00:17:20,275 when he met me, said he actually liked Mr. Epp. [laughing] 364 00:17:20,275 --> 00:17:23,551 - I joined a band called Spluii Numa, 365 00:17:23,551 --> 00:17:26,655 and I left that after just a couple practices 366 00:17:26,655 --> 00:17:29,068 'cause they told me I had to get all new gear. 367 00:17:29,068 --> 00:17:30,724 The guitar player was a real tech guy. 368 00:17:30,724 --> 00:17:32,275 He looked at my amp, said, "Nope," 369 00:17:32,275 --> 00:17:33,482 looked at my guitar, said, "Nope, 370 00:17:33,482 --> 00:17:34,896 "none of this is good enough." 371 00:17:34,896 --> 00:17:36,206 So then, right after that, that summer, 372 00:17:36,206 --> 00:17:38,172 I joined Mr. Epp with Mark. 373 00:17:40,275 --> 00:17:43,586 - The first time I met Mark Arm, I saw Green River, 374 00:17:43,586 --> 00:17:46,827 and it was a pretty awesome show. 375 00:17:46,827 --> 00:17:49,068 It was at the Central. 376 00:17:49,068 --> 00:17:51,758 I remember walking up to him and saying, 377 00:17:51,758 --> 00:17:53,758 "Man, that was a great show, dude. 378 00:17:53,758 --> 00:17:55,896 "I got some pot, you wanna go smoke some?" 379 00:17:55,896 --> 00:17:59,551 [rock music] 380 00:18:03,517 --> 00:18:04,931 - At the time, the Green River Killer 381 00:18:04,931 --> 00:18:07,000 was in all the headlines. 382 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,758 I think it was just trying to be 383 00:18:08,758 --> 00:18:10,275 as provocative as we could be, 384 00:18:10,275 --> 00:18:12,586 and it retrospect it's regrettable. 385 00:18:12,586 --> 00:18:15,827 It's what you do when you're 20 years old and obnoxious. 386 00:18:15,827 --> 00:18:17,448 - I remember the first time I saw them, 387 00:18:17,448 --> 00:18:20,965 I was like, "Holy cow, what is Mark doing?" 388 00:18:20,965 --> 00:18:23,793 He really was able to sort of express himself 389 00:18:23,793 --> 00:18:26,275 and let out his angst. 390 00:18:26,275 --> 00:18:29,793 - They went from being folks that I had seen around town 391 00:18:29,793 --> 00:18:32,206 and that I'd do shifts with 392 00:18:32,206 --> 00:18:35,517 to being like rock heroes. 393 00:18:35,517 --> 00:18:38,689 There was a lot of stuff that went in 394 00:18:38,689 --> 00:18:41,586 to what made Green River who they were. 395 00:18:41,586 --> 00:18:44,413 Some of the components were 396 00:18:44,413 --> 00:18:47,448 this kind of glammy metal. 397 00:18:47,448 --> 00:18:49,862 - He definitely took that stage persona 398 00:18:49,862 --> 00:18:52,793 through into Mudhoney, 399 00:18:52,793 --> 00:18:56,172 sort of minus the sequin pants. 400 00:18:56,172 --> 00:18:57,448 [laughing] 401 00:18:57,448 --> 00:18:58,724 - I do remember going to check out 402 00:18:58,724 --> 00:19:00,344 the early Green River shows 403 00:19:00,344 --> 00:19:02,448 and being, really, kind of blown away by them. 404 00:19:02,448 --> 00:19:04,965 Steve Turner was in Green River at the time. 405 00:19:04,965 --> 00:19:08,965 - We didn't really know Jeff Ament that well, 406 00:19:08,965 --> 00:19:10,931 but we'd seen him play with Deranged Diction, 407 00:19:10,931 --> 00:19:12,379 who we thought were cool, 408 00:19:12,379 --> 00:19:15,103 and he jumped really high and played through distortion. 409 00:19:15,103 --> 00:19:17,379 Seemed very important to us at the time, 410 00:19:17,379 --> 00:19:19,103 so Steve kind of went on this campaign 411 00:19:19,103 --> 00:19:21,413 to get to know Jeff by getting a job 412 00:19:21,413 --> 00:19:25,482 at the same espresso place that he worked at. [laughing] 413 00:19:25,482 --> 00:19:29,517 - I could tell that Mark and Steve were 414 00:19:29,517 --> 00:19:33,586 into music and into kind of making something happen, 415 00:19:33,586 --> 00:19:35,827 so I went to a couple practices. 416 00:19:35,827 --> 00:19:38,103 - That's how Green River started. 417 00:19:38,103 --> 00:19:42,137 [rock music] 418 00:19:43,758 --> 00:19:46,344 - The "Rehab Doll" album by Green River 419 00:19:46,344 --> 00:19:48,379 was the first record that Jonathan and I 420 00:19:48,379 --> 00:19:53,310 put out on Sub Pop in spring of '88. 421 00:19:53,310 --> 00:19:58,137 We emptied our coffers of about, I think, $5000, 422 00:19:58,137 --> 00:20:01,241 which was like 423 00:20:01,241 --> 00:20:04,344 a massive fortune for us at the time. 424 00:20:04,344 --> 00:20:07,448 ♪ Now I wouldn't mind 425 00:20:08,344 --> 00:20:11,137 ♪ If you swallowed my pride 426 00:20:11,137 --> 00:20:14,206 - And, unfortunately, as soon as the band 427 00:20:14,206 --> 00:20:17,689 handed us a master tape, they told us they were breaking up, 428 00:20:17,689 --> 00:20:22,586 so that was kind of our grand opening release 429 00:20:22,586 --> 00:20:24,551 and we realized we were probably gonna 430 00:20:24,551 --> 00:20:26,379 go out of business within a month. 431 00:20:26,379 --> 00:20:29,724 - [Voiceover] We're down in L.A., opening up for 432 00:20:29,724 --> 00:20:32,172 Jane's Addiction and Junkyard. 433 00:20:32,172 --> 00:20:34,137 - I remember Stone and I were up on the side of the stage 434 00:20:34,137 --> 00:20:35,620 watching Jane's Addiction, just going like, 435 00:20:35,620 --> 00:20:37,620 "Oh my god, this is incredible." 436 00:20:38,586 --> 00:20:42,448 And I remember Mark and Bruce coming up at different times, 437 00:20:42,448 --> 00:20:45,000 saying how lame they thought it was, 438 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,551 and I remember thinking, "Wow." 439 00:20:47,551 --> 00:20:50,172 I think any hope that I had 440 00:20:50,172 --> 00:20:52,275 that I thought that Green River could be 441 00:20:52,275 --> 00:20:55,413 as good as Jane's Addiction, 442 00:20:55,413 --> 00:20:58,413 because Mark didn't like Jane's Addiction, 443 00:20:58,413 --> 00:21:02,517 for me, that felt like there was a big chasm there. 444 00:21:02,517 --> 00:21:04,655 I remember just being kind of bummed. 445 00:21:04,655 --> 00:21:08,103 - Whether people say Jane's Addiction split them up, 446 00:21:08,103 --> 00:21:09,586 it was just a moment in time 447 00:21:09,586 --> 00:21:11,206 where it sort of became more evident. 448 00:21:11,206 --> 00:21:12,965 - And then when they split into 449 00:21:12,965 --> 00:21:16,034 Mother Love Bone and Mudhoney, 450 00:21:16,034 --> 00:21:20,551 there was no doubt that we were going to work with Mudhoney. 451 00:21:20,551 --> 00:21:23,413 - The separation that sort of launched Mudhoney, 452 00:21:23,413 --> 00:21:25,517 which is fantastic from a marketing point of view, 453 00:21:25,517 --> 00:21:28,758 it's like, you know, the two sellouts went one direction 454 00:21:28,758 --> 00:21:30,655 and the purists-- [laughing] 455 00:21:30,655 --> 00:21:32,586 the purists went the other, and we've got the purists, 456 00:21:32,586 --> 00:21:34,896 and they had a fantastic band, you know, 457 00:21:34,896 --> 00:21:36,413 I mean, Mudhoney was fantastic. 458 00:21:36,413 --> 00:21:38,103 We saluted them as soon as we saw them. 459 00:21:38,103 --> 00:21:39,827 We were like, "Wow, that's so much better 460 00:21:39,827 --> 00:21:41,103 "than Green River was." 461 00:21:41,103 --> 00:21:44,310 [rock music] 462 00:21:44,965 --> 00:21:47,965 [rock scream] 463 00:21:53,103 --> 00:21:54,689 - Green River broke up, I was like, 464 00:21:54,689 --> 00:21:56,310 "What am I gonna do now?" 465 00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:58,413 The first thought that occurred to me 466 00:21:58,413 --> 00:22:00,586 was, "Maybe I should call Steve." 467 00:22:00,586 --> 00:22:03,034 He was going to school up in Bellingham at the time, 468 00:22:03,034 --> 00:22:04,689 and I called him and I was like, 469 00:22:04,689 --> 00:22:06,655 "Hey, Green River broke up. 470 00:22:07,689 --> 00:22:10,586 "Why don't you drop out of school?" [laughing] 471 00:22:10,586 --> 00:22:15,206 [orchestra playing "Auld Lang Syne"] 472 00:22:27,413 --> 00:22:31,482 [rock music] 473 00:22:31,827 --> 00:22:35,172 That is the day, New Year's Day, 1988, 474 00:22:35,172 --> 00:22:37,000 that we mark as the beginning of the band. 475 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,827 That's like the band's birthday. 476 00:22:38,827 --> 00:22:41,241 - The night before, everybody was 477 00:22:41,241 --> 00:22:43,586 kind of converging on the Seattle [mumbling] 478 00:22:43,586 --> 00:22:45,482 to go to the Coliseum to see Motorhead 479 00:22:45,482 --> 00:22:47,034 open up for Alice Cooper. 480 00:22:47,034 --> 00:22:49,310 Matt was coming into town for that show, so we figured, 481 00:22:49,310 --> 00:22:52,482 "OK, we'll get together the next day with Matt." 482 00:22:52,482 --> 00:22:54,482 - It was really not a whole lot of thought. 483 00:22:54,482 --> 00:22:57,000 We weren't, like, auditioning. [laughing] 484 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,344 There was very little thought. 485 00:22:59,344 --> 00:23:00,862 It came together really easily. 486 00:23:00,862 --> 00:23:04,068 - I was 20 at this point, so I couldn't buy beer. 487 00:23:04,068 --> 00:23:05,965 I walk into the store with Matt, 488 00:23:05,965 --> 00:23:07,344 and just kind of meeting him, 489 00:23:07,344 --> 00:23:09,758 and I'm like, "Hey, wanna buy me some beer? 490 00:23:09,758 --> 00:23:11,172 "I'll give you some money," 491 00:23:11,172 --> 00:23:12,448 and he was like, "Yeah," and I give him some money, 492 00:23:13,724 --> 00:23:15,172 and he grabs himself a half-case of beer, 493 00:23:15,172 --> 00:23:16,413 he's like, "Well, I got mine," 494 00:23:16,413 --> 00:23:18,586 and I'm like, "Whoo, he's got his," 495 00:23:18,586 --> 00:23:20,586 and it was like a half-case of beer, 496 00:23:20,586 --> 00:23:22,000 and I'm like, "Well, can you get me one too?" 497 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,103 - I knew of him, just from the bands he was in, 498 00:23:24,103 --> 00:23:25,724 but I never really personally met him 499 00:23:25,724 --> 00:23:28,275 until I was in a car with him, being taken to practice, 500 00:23:28,275 --> 00:23:30,551 and he steps in the backseat with me. 501 00:23:30,551 --> 00:23:32,103 "Hey, nice to meet you!" 502 00:23:32,103 --> 00:23:34,620 He was wearing a beret. [laughing] 503 00:23:34,620 --> 00:23:37,172 That's another thing I forgot about until just now. 504 00:23:37,172 --> 00:23:38,724 He was wearing a beret, and I'm like, 505 00:23:38,724 --> 00:23:41,413 "Oh, what's up with this drummer?" [laughing] 506 00:23:41,413 --> 00:23:44,310 But I fell in love with him. [laughing] 507 00:23:45,551 --> 00:23:47,965 - [Voiceover] Mudhoney can influence your very life. 508 00:23:47,965 --> 00:23:51,103 A rewarding experience that you shall never forget. 509 00:23:51,103 --> 00:23:54,310 - Steve and I were very into B-movies, 510 00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:55,862 psychotronic movies. 511 00:23:55,862 --> 00:23:58,965 One of those directors that we really liked was Russ Meyer. 512 00:23:58,965 --> 00:24:01,620 - [Voiceover] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to sex. 513 00:24:01,620 --> 00:24:03,413 You have just witnessed some scenes 514 00:24:03,413 --> 00:24:06,482 from Russ Meyer's sadistically sensual motion picture 515 00:24:06,482 --> 00:24:09,310 "Mudhoney," a taste of evil. 516 00:24:09,310 --> 00:24:11,793 - I thought, "You know, that's a pretty cool name," 517 00:24:11,793 --> 00:24:13,862 and kind of stored it, you know, 518 00:24:13,862 --> 00:24:15,793 like, "If I ever have another band, 519 00:24:15,793 --> 00:24:18,310 "that might be a really good name to use." 520 00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:20,448 - You better get your hands outta there! 521 00:24:20,448 --> 00:24:22,931 You're gonna get in trouble! 522 00:24:22,931 --> 00:24:23,965 [maniacal laughing] 523 00:24:23,965 --> 00:24:25,413 - I haven't seen it for so long. 524 00:24:25,413 --> 00:24:27,344 It's the one with the preacher talking in black and white 525 00:24:27,344 --> 00:24:29,793 and spouting off all sorts of Biblical nonsense, 526 00:24:29,793 --> 00:24:34,689 and there's a buxom blonde white trash kind of lady 527 00:24:34,689 --> 00:24:36,448 running around the swamps, right? 528 00:24:36,448 --> 00:24:37,551 - There's a preacher. 529 00:24:37,551 --> 00:24:39,517 I don't know, it's boobs. 530 00:24:39,517 --> 00:24:40,758 [laughing] 531 00:24:40,758 --> 00:24:42,620 - [Voiceover] Steeped with the flavor of evil. 532 00:24:42,620 --> 00:24:45,172 - I don't remember much of it other than that. 533 00:24:45,172 --> 00:24:47,275 [laughing] Seriously! 534 00:24:47,275 --> 00:24:50,655 - [Voiceover] For a taste of evil, see Mudhoney. 535 00:24:53,551 --> 00:24:56,103 - I remember Mark saying that he introduced himself, 536 00:24:56,103 --> 00:24:58,000 I think, to Dan Peters, 537 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,793 and told him he should join Mudhoney, 538 00:24:59,793 --> 00:25:02,172 while pushing in front of him at some Seattle Club 539 00:25:02,172 --> 00:25:04,758 in the queue for the toilet so he could vomit. 540 00:25:04,758 --> 00:25:06,000 It was like, "We're starting a new band! 541 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,551 "It's called Mudhoney!" [vomiting] 542 00:25:07,551 --> 00:25:08,965 Like that, you know. 543 00:25:11,551 --> 00:25:15,068 - Dan Peters, greatest fucking drummer in the world. 544 00:25:15,068 --> 00:25:18,620 [rock music] 545 00:25:19,965 --> 00:25:21,551 - Nobody sounds like Dan Peters. 546 00:25:21,551 --> 00:25:23,586 You can hear drumming on anything, 547 00:25:23,586 --> 00:25:26,310 even if he's like on a Mark Lanegan record or whatever, 548 00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:28,379 sessions he's done, you can always tell 549 00:25:28,379 --> 00:25:31,448 in about two seconds, "That's Dan Peters on the drums. 550 00:25:31,448 --> 00:25:35,172 "I recognize that feel, I recognize that drum fill, 551 00:25:35,172 --> 00:25:37,793 "I can totally tell by the way he's hitting the snare drum." 552 00:25:37,793 --> 00:25:40,137 Danny is completely unique. 553 00:25:43,517 --> 00:25:48,068 [rock music] 554 00:25:52,827 --> 00:25:54,931 - My mom was a lounge singer. 555 00:25:54,931 --> 00:25:57,620 She had bands 556 00:25:57,620 --> 00:26:01,620 and sang six, seven nights a week. 557 00:26:01,620 --> 00:26:05,310 I got my first pair of drumsticks at a fairly early age. 558 00:26:05,310 --> 00:26:07,793 I used to sit around and, you know, 559 00:26:07,793 --> 00:26:10,344 act like I had a drum set in front of me. 560 00:26:10,344 --> 00:26:11,827 My uncle was in a band, 561 00:26:11,827 --> 00:26:13,827 and the singer of that band told me 562 00:26:13,827 --> 00:26:15,448 he had an extra drum set. 563 00:26:15,448 --> 00:26:16,931 A band like Gang of Four really changed 564 00:26:16,931 --> 00:26:20,206 the way I thought of music and listened to music. 565 00:26:20,206 --> 00:26:22,862 X. Dead Kennedys. 566 00:26:22,862 --> 00:26:25,724 My math teacher knew that I had listened to punk rock, 567 00:26:25,724 --> 00:26:27,517 so [mumbling] this weird guy. 568 00:26:27,517 --> 00:26:29,448 He asked me to bring in some punk rock 569 00:26:29,448 --> 00:26:30,758 to play for the class, I'm like, 570 00:26:30,758 --> 00:26:32,448 "Ah, all right, I'll do that," 571 00:26:32,448 --> 00:26:36,551 and I made a cassette tape of a Dead Kennedys song. 572 00:26:36,551 --> 00:26:38,896 So the whole class is sitting down, getting ready, 573 00:26:38,896 --> 00:26:40,689 they're like, "Dan's gonna play you some punk rock," 574 00:26:40,689 --> 00:26:42,241 I'm like, "Yeah, this is gonna be good." 575 00:26:42,241 --> 00:26:44,586 So I press play. The song starts up. 576 00:26:44,586 --> 00:26:48,137 ["Forward to Death" by Dead Kennedys] 577 00:26:54,482 --> 00:26:57,000 Like the lyrics are like, "I don't need this fucking world, 578 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,379 "I don't need this fucking world, 579 00:26:58,379 --> 00:27:00,206 "This world gets me down," 580 00:27:00,206 --> 00:27:02,965 and he's like, "OK, Dan, stop!" [laughing] 581 00:27:02,965 --> 00:27:05,413 Kinda like, "Ah, well, you wanted to hear it." 582 00:27:05,413 --> 00:27:07,241 ♪ I don't need this fucking world 583 00:27:07,241 --> 00:27:09,551 ♪ This world brings you down 584 00:27:11,689 --> 00:27:14,137 - [Voiceover] One beer down, and he's fucking gonna snap. 585 00:27:14,137 --> 00:27:16,137 - What? - [Voiceover] Nothing. 586 00:27:16,137 --> 00:27:19,379 - Look at this, I got a disease last night. 587 00:27:19,379 --> 00:27:20,655 - [Voiceover] Where'd you get that at? 588 00:27:20,655 --> 00:27:22,103 - [Voiceover] I don't know, I had a bunch of 589 00:27:22,103 --> 00:27:23,482 open sores on my hand and I was rolling around on my floor. 590 00:27:23,482 --> 00:27:25,724 I passed out, and [mumbling] somebody diseased me! 591 00:27:25,724 --> 00:27:27,931 - [Voiceover] Matt Lukin was the mud in the honey. 592 00:27:27,931 --> 00:27:31,896 - The guy had a brilliant and surreal sense of humor. 593 00:27:31,896 --> 00:27:33,413 He was a work of art. 594 00:27:33,413 --> 00:27:35,586 - I woke up at about 11:00 in the morning and came down, 595 00:27:35,586 --> 00:27:38,931 and he was sitting in front of the TV, smoking, 596 00:27:38,931 --> 00:27:42,379 taking hits out of a bong, and watching an AC/DC video, 597 00:27:43,517 --> 00:27:46,379 and I thought, "This is exactly what I would imagine," 598 00:27:46,379 --> 00:27:49,275 almost too much so, like he staged it, 599 00:27:49,275 --> 00:27:51,241 but he was serious, he wasn't joking. 600 00:27:51,241 --> 00:27:53,034 That's what he did. 601 00:27:53,034 --> 00:27:56,103 - His whole family said, "Don't go into the music business. 602 00:27:56,103 --> 00:28:00,275 "Don't do it. Get a job, become a carpenter." 603 00:28:00,275 --> 00:28:02,103 So pretty soon he was like, 604 00:28:02,103 --> 00:28:04,344 "Yeah, they didn't want me to be a musician, 605 00:28:04,344 --> 00:28:08,275 "but I'm the first fucking Lukin who ever made it to Europe, 606 00:28:08,275 --> 00:28:10,758 "to Japan, to Australia, whatever." 607 00:28:10,758 --> 00:28:13,000 So he was the first Lukin going around the world, 608 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,241 being a rock star. 609 00:28:14,241 --> 00:28:16,655 This is Matt Lukin, right there for you. 610 00:28:16,655 --> 00:28:19,241 [laughing] So crazy guy! 611 00:28:19,241 --> 00:28:21,000 Amazing guy. 612 00:28:24,655 --> 00:28:27,517 - As a young kid, I remember playing singles 613 00:28:27,517 --> 00:28:30,137 of like Black Sabbath and shit like that, 614 00:28:30,137 --> 00:28:32,896 but it scared me at the same time. [laughing] 615 00:28:32,896 --> 00:28:34,896 But when I got older, I was like, 616 00:28:34,896 --> 00:28:37,000 "Yeah, this is the stuff." [laughing] 617 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,034 I didn't really get into guitar until I was about 13 or 14. 618 00:28:41,034 --> 00:28:43,758 Then I got one and I'd sit there and pluck away. 619 00:28:43,758 --> 00:28:46,586 We were just friends or whatever, hanging out. 620 00:28:46,586 --> 00:28:50,965 The guy who played bass was the cousin of the drummer 621 00:28:50,965 --> 00:28:54,103 but he would rarely show up, but he had a bass and an amp, 622 00:28:54,103 --> 00:28:56,724 and I'd be there with my guitar, but it's like, 623 00:28:56,724 --> 00:28:58,137 "Well, there's no one here to play bass. 624 00:28:58,137 --> 00:28:59,344 "Why don't you play bass?" 625 00:28:59,344 --> 00:29:03,482 [rock song] 626 00:29:19,344 --> 00:29:23,586 Buzz's girlfriend played bass and she replaced me, 627 00:29:23,586 --> 00:29:25,448 so that was pretty much, 628 00:29:25,448 --> 00:29:28,689 since I didn't have a pussy [laughing] 629 00:29:28,689 --> 00:29:31,310 I was no longer needed in the band. 630 00:29:31,310 --> 00:29:34,275 He found a bass player that had a pussy and would fuck him. 631 00:29:34,275 --> 00:29:35,862 [laughing] 632 00:29:35,862 --> 00:29:38,620 [bass riff] 633 00:29:38,620 --> 00:29:40,413 Then when I joined Mudhoney, I was like, 634 00:29:40,413 --> 00:29:41,793 "This stuff's fucking great. 635 00:29:41,793 --> 00:29:43,793 "It's just good rock and roll," 636 00:29:43,793 --> 00:29:46,758 which is all anybody wants anyway, isn't it? 637 00:29:46,758 --> 00:29:48,724 It's just good rock. 638 00:29:50,344 --> 00:29:51,862 - I was working at a Japanese restaurant, 639 00:29:51,862 --> 00:29:55,206 and this chef there seemed like 640 00:29:55,206 --> 00:29:56,551 he'd already been through the punk wars 641 00:29:56,551 --> 00:29:58,827 and, you know, had gone pop, sort of 642 00:29:58,827 --> 00:30:00,413 and was into kind of synthpop stuff. 643 00:30:00,413 --> 00:30:01,931 I was talking about guitar and I was like, 644 00:30:01,931 --> 00:30:04,000 "I just can't really get it to sound the way I want it to," 645 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,896 and he asked me what distortion box I was using, 646 00:30:05,896 --> 00:30:07,482 and I didn't know what that was. 647 00:30:07,482 --> 00:30:08,724 I was like, "Huh?" 648 00:30:08,724 --> 00:30:10,137 He just kind of smiled and the next day, 649 00:30:10,137 --> 00:30:13,172 he handed me a Super Fuzz, said, "Here, try this." 650 00:30:13,172 --> 00:30:15,931 [rock music] 651 00:30:15,931 --> 00:30:17,379 It was a serious revelation, 652 00:30:17,379 --> 00:30:19,689 because it's not just a distortion box, 653 00:30:19,689 --> 00:30:21,517 it's fuzz, you know. 654 00:30:21,517 --> 00:30:24,689 It's like really, really deep, thick fuzz. 655 00:30:24,689 --> 00:30:27,000 And so that just blew my mind. 656 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,758 [rock music] 657 00:30:29,758 --> 00:30:32,413 By the time that Mudhoney started, 658 00:30:32,413 --> 00:30:34,344 I was playing the Big Muff because it had 659 00:30:34,344 --> 00:30:35,586 more of that sustain, kind of like 660 00:30:35,586 --> 00:30:38,172 Blue Cheer, Stooges kind of thing going. 661 00:30:38,172 --> 00:30:40,310 And so Mark used the Super Fuzz. 662 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:47,000 ♪ Sweet young thing ain't sweet no more 663 00:30:51,517 --> 00:30:56,517 ♪ Sweet young thing ain't sweet no more 664 00:31:01,172 --> 00:31:06,172 ♪ Sweet young thing ain't sweet no more ♪ 665 00:31:09,068 --> 00:31:11,068 - [Voiceover] So here's the original 8-track reel. 666 00:31:13,551 --> 00:31:16,413 Inside is what passes for a track sheet 667 00:31:16,413 --> 00:31:17,793 at that point in my career. 668 00:31:17,793 --> 00:31:19,344 I think I'd only been a recording engineer 669 00:31:19,344 --> 00:31:21,310 for maybe a year and a half. 670 00:31:21,310 --> 00:31:23,862 - When we did that single, we really wanted 671 00:31:23,862 --> 00:31:27,241 to put, like, our best foot forward. 672 00:31:27,241 --> 00:31:29,482 This is our chance to make a statement, 673 00:31:29,482 --> 00:31:31,482 and we didn't really know if we were going to do 674 00:31:31,482 --> 00:31:33,000 anything more than that first single, 675 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,206 so we were like, "We're gonna put our two best songs on it 676 00:31:35,206 --> 00:31:36,896 "and that'll be it," and that could be 677 00:31:36,896 --> 00:31:39,689 the only document that this band would ever have. 678 00:31:39,689 --> 00:31:42,655 - You know, here's the initial salvo. 679 00:31:42,655 --> 00:31:45,827 It's kind of the opening salvo of grunge, in a lot of ways. 680 00:31:45,827 --> 00:31:48,137 I think people would look at it that way now. 681 00:31:48,931 --> 00:31:50,758 [rock music] 682 00:31:50,758 --> 00:31:52,310 - What you're going to hear about today 683 00:31:52,310 --> 00:31:54,241 is nothing short of a miracle. 684 00:31:54,241 --> 00:31:56,344 It's dramatically new. 685 00:31:56,344 --> 00:32:00,344 ["Touch Me I'm Sick" by Mudhoney] 686 00:32:05,551 --> 00:32:08,103 ♪ I've been bad 687 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,103 ♪ And I've been worse 688 00:32:11,103 --> 00:32:12,344 - [Voiceover] That's the apotheosis 689 00:32:12,344 --> 00:32:14,689 of what rock and roll should sound like. 690 00:32:14,689 --> 00:32:18,448 ♪ Yeah, I'm a jerk 691 00:32:18,448 --> 00:32:19,724 - "Touch me, I'm sick" 692 00:32:19,724 --> 00:32:21,896 is a pretty extraordinary thing to say. 693 00:32:21,896 --> 00:32:23,862 ♪ Touch me, I'm sick 694 00:32:23,862 --> 00:32:26,482 You think, there are eight million ways to say 695 00:32:26,482 --> 00:32:28,758 "I love you" or "I don't love you" in rock and roll. 696 00:32:28,758 --> 00:32:32,413 "Touch me, I'm sick," that was one I hadn't heard before. 697 00:32:32,413 --> 00:32:34,586 - It was exciting and vital. 698 00:32:34,586 --> 00:32:37,517 It sounded really punk as fuck, too. 699 00:32:38,931 --> 00:32:42,482 ♪ Touch me, I'm sick 700 00:32:44,103 --> 00:32:47,620 - That record was so in demand that they flew out the door. 701 00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:51,172 One of those classic singles that captured the time. 702 00:32:51,172 --> 00:32:52,724 ♪ If you don't come 703 00:32:52,724 --> 00:32:55,965 ♪ You'll die alone 704 00:32:55,965 --> 00:33:00,896 - It did not get on radio in any kind of widespread way. 705 00:33:00,896 --> 00:33:02,862 There was something that the insiders, 706 00:33:02,862 --> 00:33:04,517 the know-it-alls knew, 707 00:33:04,517 --> 00:33:06,965 but it really had a strong viral effect 708 00:33:06,965 --> 00:33:11,068 to the point now that it is in its own way a hit. 709 00:33:11,068 --> 00:33:14,551 [rock music] 710 00:33:16,551 --> 00:33:21,137 ♪ Sweet young ain't sweet no more 711 00:33:26,034 --> 00:33:31,034 ♪ Sweet young ain't sweet no more ♪ 712 00:33:35,344 --> 00:33:37,172 - As a label, we really tried 713 00:33:37,172 --> 00:33:39,000 to work the collector's market, 714 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,034 doing colored vinyl editions of all the 45s. 715 00:33:42,034 --> 00:33:45,000 - We worked with Erika Records for weeks 716 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,103 getting samples of a good shit brown, 717 00:33:49,103 --> 00:33:54,034 and they'd send us kind of like a veiny purple, 718 00:33:54,034 --> 00:33:56,275 a baby shit brown, and we were like, 719 00:33:56,275 --> 00:33:58,000 "No, no, no, no, this has gotta be 720 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,000 "a firm, adult, dog shit brown." 721 00:34:03,103 --> 00:34:04,896 They finally got it. 722 00:34:04,896 --> 00:34:07,103 - Here's a little-known fact. 723 00:34:07,103 --> 00:34:10,689 I remember Jonathan and Steve and I went out to lunch 724 00:34:10,689 --> 00:34:15,413 and the whole idea for the Sub Pop Singles Club came out 725 00:34:15,413 --> 00:34:17,793 during a conversation about record collecting 726 00:34:17,793 --> 00:34:19,206 and how we could sell more records, 727 00:34:19,206 --> 00:34:21,827 and Steve was probably the deepest record collector 728 00:34:21,827 --> 00:34:23,310 of anybody in the band. 729 00:34:27,310 --> 00:34:30,034 - I mean, I remember the first record I bought. 730 00:34:30,034 --> 00:34:32,448 When I was in first or second grade, 731 00:34:32,448 --> 00:34:33,655 I bought an Elvis Presley record 732 00:34:33,655 --> 00:34:35,896 for 25 cents at a garage sale. 733 00:34:35,896 --> 00:34:37,655 I still have that record. 734 00:34:37,655 --> 00:34:39,965 Yeah, the two things that have kind of remained with me, 735 00:34:39,965 --> 00:34:43,172 it's pretty easy, I love punk rock, I love folk music. 736 00:34:43,172 --> 00:34:45,758 One of my all-time heroes, Roky Erickson. 737 00:34:45,758 --> 00:34:47,448 Monochrome set, "He's Frank." 738 00:34:47,448 --> 00:34:50,344 Live version of "Hospital" by Jonathan Richman. 739 00:34:50,344 --> 00:34:54,000 Tumwater, these are beer ads from the 70s, 740 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,482 like little tiny snippets, little songs about beer. 741 00:34:56,482 --> 00:34:58,758 [laughing] 742 00:34:58,758 --> 00:35:01,137 First Mudhoney single, the super limited. 743 00:35:01,137 --> 00:35:03,758 Just a handful of weird colors made, 744 00:35:05,172 --> 00:35:06,965 because they were trying to make up 745 00:35:06,965 --> 00:35:08,931 for the fact that they were so late 746 00:35:08,931 --> 00:35:10,689 and they kept fucking up all the orders. 747 00:35:10,689 --> 00:35:12,448 The saddest thing about all these singles? 748 00:35:12,448 --> 00:35:14,896 The sleeve that they put them in 749 00:35:17,068 --> 00:35:19,448 stained them, made this horrible staining. 750 00:35:19,448 --> 00:35:22,344 I don't know if you can see that anyway. 751 00:35:22,344 --> 00:35:24,862 It's a crime against a record, though. 752 00:35:24,862 --> 00:35:28,620 Somehow, like, they chemically don't mix 753 00:35:28,620 --> 00:35:30,620 with the vinyl, the sleeves. 754 00:35:30,620 --> 00:35:32,068 Very sad. 755 00:35:32,068 --> 00:35:35,000 So they're all downgraded, unfortunately, 756 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,103 from mint minus to [mumbling] plus. 757 00:35:38,103 --> 00:35:40,551 [laughing] 758 00:35:43,482 --> 00:35:46,448 - We were just kind of hobbling along. 759 00:35:46,448 --> 00:35:48,586 We had run out of cash. 760 00:35:48,586 --> 00:35:50,758 That summer, Jonathan and I went to 761 00:35:50,758 --> 00:35:52,206 the New Music Seminar, 762 00:35:52,206 --> 00:35:54,620 which is a big conference in New York City. 763 00:35:54,620 --> 00:35:57,517 Spent the last few cents we had going to that conference. 764 00:35:57,517 --> 00:36:01,931 Amazingly, we met up with a German promoter. 765 00:36:01,931 --> 00:36:03,344 - And the next thing you know, 766 00:36:03,344 --> 00:36:08,000 Mudhoney, Bruce and myself were given tickets 767 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,000 to go to Berlin at the end of October. 768 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,620 - [Voiceover] Hey, we're Mudhoney, we're from Seattle! 769 00:36:14,620 --> 00:36:16,034 - That was really exciting, 770 00:36:16,034 --> 00:36:18,827 'cause, you know, we hadn't been anywhere, really. 771 00:36:18,827 --> 00:36:23,068 We just got flown in to play one show to Berlin. 772 00:36:23,068 --> 00:36:25,241 To us it seemed like a complete joke, 773 00:36:25,241 --> 00:36:29,655 like, "Who's paying for this and why?" [laughing] 774 00:36:29,655 --> 00:36:31,655 - [Voiceover] Playing that show was a huge break 775 00:36:31,655 --> 00:36:35,172 for Mudhoney and also a huge break for Sub Pop. 776 00:36:35,172 --> 00:36:38,724 - It was fucking surreal, man, on every level. 777 00:36:38,724 --> 00:36:40,344 People got it. 778 00:36:40,344 --> 00:36:43,344 I mean, in many ways, they got it much more 779 00:36:43,344 --> 00:36:46,068 than people outside of Seattle did. 780 00:36:46,068 --> 00:36:50,241 [rock music] 781 00:37:27,482 --> 00:37:29,586 - I was driving up to Seattle. 782 00:37:29,586 --> 00:37:31,172 There was a show that night. 783 00:37:31,172 --> 00:37:32,724 A band called Mudhoney were playing. 784 00:37:32,724 --> 00:37:34,275 I was just minding my own business. 785 00:37:34,275 --> 00:37:38,620 I was behind this chick that had a skeleton thing 786 00:37:38,620 --> 00:37:40,103 hanging from her rear view mirror. 787 00:37:40,103 --> 00:37:43,310 I remember thinking, "Ooh, an alternative chick. 788 00:37:43,310 --> 00:37:44,862 "Maybe's she's cute." 789 00:37:44,862 --> 00:37:47,137 Pulled up alongside of her and it was Matt Lukin. 790 00:37:47,137 --> 00:37:48,586 [dramatic music] 791 00:37:48,586 --> 00:37:50,896 - I would say that Bob Whittaker, their manager, 792 00:37:50,896 --> 00:37:53,931 was kind of like the fifth member of Mudhoney. 793 00:37:53,931 --> 00:37:57,000 He was an integral part to the whole Mudhoney vibe. 794 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,137 - We'd be playing shows and there'd be some kind of ruckus, 795 00:37:59,137 --> 00:38:01,241 you know, like some drunk guy in the corner 796 00:38:01,241 --> 00:38:03,413 doing something that he shouldn't be doing. 797 00:38:06,137 --> 00:38:07,413 "Who the hell is that guy?" 798 00:38:07,413 --> 00:38:09,310 "That guy? Well, that's our manager. 799 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,586 [laughing] "You're gonna be paying him later." 800 00:38:12,586 --> 00:38:14,758 - Everything Mudhoney did was kind of casual, 801 00:38:14,758 --> 00:38:18,068 kind of non-industry-oriented. 802 00:38:18,068 --> 00:38:19,413 Bob was their manager, and I think 803 00:38:19,413 --> 00:38:21,793 that they split everything evenly with him, 804 00:38:21,793 --> 00:38:23,103 like he was a band member, 805 00:38:23,103 --> 00:38:26,620 which is not your traditional industry practice. 806 00:38:26,620 --> 00:38:28,827 They kind of bucked the system, so to speak. 807 00:38:28,827 --> 00:38:30,137 - [Voiceover] French franc. 808 00:38:30,137 --> 00:38:33,931 - 'Ello. Behind me is ze White Cliffs of Dover. 809 00:38:33,931 --> 00:38:38,344 [rock music] 810 00:38:38,344 --> 00:38:39,793 - They were the first band I ever met 811 00:38:39,793 --> 00:38:43,103 where the manager's more out of control than the band. 812 00:38:43,103 --> 00:38:45,689 - Yeah, he would definitely throw gasoline 813 00:38:45,689 --> 00:38:48,000 on all kinds of fires. 814 00:38:52,034 --> 00:38:53,620 [yelling] 815 00:38:53,620 --> 00:38:56,896 - Bob's crazy, thoroughly crazy. 816 00:38:56,896 --> 00:38:59,206 - [mumbling] fuck is going on in here? 817 00:38:59,206 --> 00:39:01,068 - Uh, nothing. 818 00:39:02,517 --> 00:39:05,000 - When we went on our first U.S. tour, 819 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,724 we brought him along kind of as entertainment, 820 00:39:08,724 --> 00:39:11,758 and more often that not, he would get shit-faced 821 00:39:11,758 --> 00:39:14,068 and heckle us from the crowd. 822 00:39:14,068 --> 00:39:17,517 [rock music] 823 00:39:17,517 --> 00:39:19,413 - [Bob] Matt Lukin's doing what he does best, 824 00:39:19,413 --> 00:39:21,206 you fucking dick. 825 00:39:21,206 --> 00:39:23,379 - You may not have even seen him, 826 00:39:23,379 --> 00:39:24,655 even though it's hard to miss him, 827 00:39:24,655 --> 00:39:27,034 'cause he's kind of like the punk rock Big Bird. 828 00:39:27,034 --> 00:39:31,137 - [Bob] I was the butt rocker with bad corkscrew hair. 829 00:39:32,310 --> 00:39:34,758 It was such a great opportunity for me, 830 00:39:34,758 --> 00:39:37,896 college dropout, go see the world. 831 00:39:37,896 --> 00:39:41,206 - He was drafted in to be our roadie. 832 00:39:41,206 --> 00:39:45,275 The joke is if you asked him to help carry an amp, 833 00:39:45,275 --> 00:39:47,206 he's like, "Carry it yourself!" [laughing] 834 00:39:47,206 --> 00:39:48,758 "It's not mine!" 835 00:39:48,758 --> 00:39:52,344 - No, no, no, Bob didn't lift a finger moving anything. 836 00:39:52,344 --> 00:39:53,586 - He'd just look at you and go, 837 00:39:53,586 --> 00:39:56,068 "Fuck you, you got two legs, you go do it." 838 00:39:56,068 --> 00:39:58,448 Like, "Dude, I need to add someone to the guest list," 839 00:39:58,448 --> 00:40:01,241 "Fuck you, go to the front door and do it yourself." 840 00:40:01,241 --> 00:40:03,551 It's like, "No, man, you work for us! 841 00:40:03,551 --> 00:40:04,724 "You're supposed to do it!" 842 00:40:04,724 --> 00:40:06,413 "Ah, fuck you, you do it." 843 00:40:06,413 --> 00:40:10,586 But he was really great at finding a place to stay, 844 00:40:10,586 --> 00:40:12,551 'cause, like, back when you can't afford hotels, 845 00:40:12,551 --> 00:40:16,034 the best place to stay is to find college girls 846 00:40:16,034 --> 00:40:18,896 living in a house that her parents are paying for 847 00:40:18,896 --> 00:40:20,896 that's really nice or whatever. 848 00:40:20,896 --> 00:40:22,689 He was really good at finding those kind of people 849 00:40:22,689 --> 00:40:24,862 that had a lot of room and a really nice house, 850 00:40:24,862 --> 00:40:27,862 as opposed to finding the punk rock house 851 00:40:27,862 --> 00:40:31,206 that's just full of piss and cockroaches to stay in. 852 00:40:31,206 --> 00:40:33,586 - I think the band and myself mutually 853 00:40:33,586 --> 00:40:38,103 had contempt for a lot of the industry standards. 854 00:40:38,103 --> 00:40:40,620 I can remember it on a flight one time, 855 00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:43,275 I just said, "Hey, you guys, managers are creepy. 856 00:40:43,275 --> 00:40:45,793 "Let me be your creepy manager." 857 00:40:45,793 --> 00:40:48,413 But I just said, "I think I can shoulder this load 858 00:40:48,413 --> 00:40:49,965 "without screwing things up too much. 859 00:40:49,965 --> 00:40:51,482 "I can be your point guy." 860 00:40:51,482 --> 00:40:52,758 - [Steve] You know, he kind of grew with us 861 00:40:52,758 --> 00:40:56,172 as the machine kind of grew and slowly took on 862 00:40:56,172 --> 00:40:57,586 more and more responsibilities. 863 00:40:57,586 --> 00:40:59,172 And he took it real seriously, really. 864 00:40:59,172 --> 00:41:02,275 He was learning as we were going, too, as we all were. 865 00:41:02,275 --> 00:41:04,586 - I was a good candidate, 'cause I'm 866 00:41:04,586 --> 00:41:06,379 relatively articulate and I'm ultimately 867 00:41:06,379 --> 00:41:09,896 very concerned about the band and their credibility 868 00:41:09,896 --> 00:41:12,724 and not talk them into something they don't want, 869 00:41:12,724 --> 00:41:15,172 and so it was a pretty comfortable transition. 870 00:41:16,413 --> 00:41:18,517 - For me, part of what makes a record great 871 00:41:18,517 --> 00:41:23,310 is how it captures the time in which it's presented. 872 00:41:24,068 --> 00:41:26,620 - This is our B-side to our #1 hit in England 873 00:41:26,620 --> 00:41:28,482 called "Superfuzz Bigmuff." 874 00:41:28,482 --> 00:41:30,620 [crowd cheering] 875 00:41:30,620 --> 00:41:34,034 - It almost immediately entered the indie charts in England, 876 00:41:34,034 --> 00:41:37,137 which was something that never happened. 877 00:41:37,137 --> 00:41:40,896 American records never made the indie charts in England. 878 00:41:40,896 --> 00:41:45,000 It was very rare, and it stayed there for over a year. 879 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,448 - It instantly became the party record. 880 00:41:48,448 --> 00:41:50,965 To this day, I think it's the greatest EP 881 00:41:50,965 --> 00:41:53,103 that we've ever put out. 882 00:41:53,103 --> 00:41:57,827 - I had been, you know, a professional recording engineer 883 00:41:57,827 --> 00:42:00,310 for less than two years at that point. 884 00:42:00,310 --> 00:42:03,241 Now, what it is, you know, 23 years I've been doing this. 885 00:42:03,241 --> 00:42:07,103 I've made like 350-some albums 886 00:42:07,103 --> 00:42:09,068 in 10 countries or whatever, 887 00:42:09,068 --> 00:42:14,068 and this shit keeps coming back! [laughing] 888 00:42:15,620 --> 00:42:20,206 ♪ Give me love laced with lies 889 00:42:22,965 --> 00:42:27,689 ♪ There ain't much I haven't tried 890 00:42:31,241 --> 00:42:36,137 ♪ Give me love laced with lies 891 00:42:38,793 --> 00:42:42,793 ♪ There ain't much, baby, I haven't tried ♪ 892 00:42:42,793 --> 00:42:45,482 - You see Mark just hurling towards the camera 893 00:42:45,482 --> 00:42:46,758 with their hair flowing, 894 00:42:46,758 --> 00:42:48,724 and then it looked like "Mudhoney" 895 00:42:48,724 --> 00:42:50,310 written in amazing Magic Marker 896 00:42:50,310 --> 00:42:52,310 and "Superfuzz Bigmuff" written underneath. 897 00:42:52,310 --> 00:42:54,172 I challenge anyone to sit down 898 00:42:54,172 --> 00:42:57,000 and make "Superfuzz" a better record than it is. 899 00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,172 The only way you can do it 900 00:42:58,172 --> 00:43:00,241 is to just make it longer somehow. 901 00:43:01,758 --> 00:43:05,172 ♪ Sliding in and out of grace 902 00:43:08,172 --> 00:43:10,758 - You think of some of the greatest lines in rock and roll, 903 00:43:10,758 --> 00:43:14,344 that line, that fucking "Oh god, how I love to hate." 904 00:43:15,965 --> 00:43:18,172 Fuck. I wish I wrote that. 905 00:43:18,172 --> 00:43:20,137 That's the coolest fucking line. 906 00:43:20,137 --> 00:43:22,034 "Oh god, how I love to hate." 907 00:43:22,034 --> 00:43:25,793 ♪ Oh god, how I love to hate 908 00:43:28,655 --> 00:43:32,517 ♪ Sliding in and out of grace 909 00:43:32,517 --> 00:43:34,379 - They were tapping into these reference points, 910 00:43:34,379 --> 00:43:36,137 B-movies, there's this kind of 911 00:43:36,137 --> 00:43:37,827 kitschy, trashy thing going on. 912 00:43:37,827 --> 00:43:39,275 It's kind of a bit shit. 913 00:43:39,275 --> 00:43:40,620 Those films are a bit shit. 914 00:43:40,620 --> 00:43:42,655 People who act in them are a bit shit, 915 00:43:42,655 --> 00:43:45,000 because they're the cheapest actors they could get, 916 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,931 but there is this sort of quality to it, 917 00:43:46,931 --> 00:43:49,379 and I feel like a lot of what Mudhoney were doing 918 00:43:49,379 --> 00:43:52,551 was tapping into that, like they weren't shit, 919 00:43:52,551 --> 00:43:54,758 but they were tapping into these reference points. 920 00:43:54,758 --> 00:43:55,896 - [Voiceover] That's a Lenny Kravitz song. 921 00:43:55,896 --> 00:43:57,275 - "There's a Tractor in My Balls" 922 00:43:57,275 --> 00:43:58,965 is Lenny Kravitz's new hit. 923 00:43:58,965 --> 00:44:00,517 - But we know Sonic Youth. 924 00:44:00,517 --> 00:44:02,206 [laughing] 925 00:44:03,827 --> 00:44:05,793 - Has anybody vomited yet? 926 00:44:05,793 --> 00:44:08,000 - [Voiceover] Mark did! 927 00:44:13,620 --> 00:44:15,379 - We asked them to play with us 928 00:44:15,379 --> 00:44:17,655 when we were coming out to do a West Coast tour, 929 00:44:17,655 --> 00:44:20,172 never having seen them or really anything. 930 00:44:20,172 --> 00:44:22,827 - You know, with the Sonic Youth stamp of approval, 931 00:44:22,827 --> 00:44:26,344 at that time, it was a big thing. 932 00:44:26,344 --> 00:44:28,344 - And they were always happy. 933 00:44:28,344 --> 00:44:30,862 They were always just kind of like eating and drinking 934 00:44:30,862 --> 00:44:32,931 and smoking cigarettes and just, like, 935 00:44:32,931 --> 00:44:34,517 rolling up to the sound check 936 00:44:34,517 --> 00:44:36,931 and just spilling out of the van 937 00:44:36,931 --> 00:44:38,620 and wrestling on the pavement. 938 00:44:38,620 --> 00:44:39,827 Their whole thing was like, 939 00:44:39,827 --> 00:44:41,724 "Let's just have a really good time." 940 00:44:41,724 --> 00:44:43,827 So it was kind of an interesting pairing, 941 00:44:43,827 --> 00:44:46,172 you know, because we were kind of a little older, 942 00:44:46,172 --> 00:44:49,482 and we were sort of like egghead book collectors. 943 00:44:49,482 --> 00:44:50,965 - Yeah, didn't they make fun of, like, 944 00:44:50,965 --> 00:44:52,655 they said something once about us 945 00:44:52,655 --> 00:44:55,482 just reading in the van all the time or something. 946 00:44:55,482 --> 00:44:57,275 - Right. - "What book are you reading?" 947 00:44:57,275 --> 00:44:58,551 - When they'd come offstage, 948 00:44:58,551 --> 00:45:01,724 we'd be in the dressing room, all drunk, 949 00:45:01,724 --> 00:45:03,827 entertaining them with whatever, 950 00:45:03,827 --> 00:45:06,034 just being degenerates. 951 00:45:06,034 --> 00:45:08,000 I think they needed to probably drink a bit more 952 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,310 and party a bit more to make it more fun for them. 953 00:45:11,310 --> 00:45:15,103 They seemed to be into buying books and stuff. 954 00:45:15,103 --> 00:45:18,206 [laughing] Good people, though. 955 00:45:18,206 --> 00:45:22,275 [rock music] 956 00:45:29,655 --> 00:45:32,206 - One of the most famous Mudhoney gigs in London 957 00:45:32,206 --> 00:45:35,655 was the gig at the School of Oriental African Studies. 958 00:45:35,655 --> 00:45:37,000 Mudhoney were headlining, 959 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,758 and they were supported by Soundgarden. 960 00:45:38,758 --> 00:45:42,482 - All of the British press at that show, 961 00:45:42,482 --> 00:45:45,241 so there were like at least 200 people, 962 00:45:45,241 --> 00:45:47,206 press people, on the guest list. 963 00:45:47,206 --> 00:45:50,034 - We played first, played a great set. 964 00:45:50,034 --> 00:45:51,137 I loved the set. 965 00:45:51,137 --> 00:45:52,448 I remember the songs that we played 966 00:45:52,448 --> 00:45:54,034 and the sequence in which we played them 967 00:45:54,034 --> 00:45:55,793 and it was really strong. 968 00:45:55,793 --> 00:45:58,034 - There's nowhere else in our history 969 00:45:58,034 --> 00:46:00,448 that we ever could have had Soundgarden open for us. 970 00:46:00,448 --> 00:46:02,551 [laughing] That was like the one day. 971 00:46:02,551 --> 00:46:05,344 [laughing] 972 00:46:05,344 --> 00:46:06,689 Kind of weird. 973 00:46:06,689 --> 00:46:08,862 - We get up there, and there's just this 974 00:46:08,862 --> 00:46:10,413 weird energy in the air. 975 00:46:10,413 --> 00:46:13,034 You could definitely sense there's a lot of anticipation. 976 00:46:13,034 --> 00:46:15,034 - Sometimes you need a collective of people 977 00:46:15,034 --> 00:46:17,103 to be in the same room together to realize 978 00:46:17,103 --> 00:46:19,206 how they all feel about it and to be excited 979 00:46:19,206 --> 00:46:20,551 about how they all feel about it, 980 00:46:20,551 --> 00:46:22,172 because up until then, you know, 981 00:46:22,172 --> 00:46:23,758 people had been hearing this stuff on the radio, 982 00:46:23,758 --> 00:46:25,137 people had been buying the records, 983 00:46:25,137 --> 00:46:27,379 but until you actually saw the band live, 984 00:46:27,379 --> 00:46:30,793 you never really get a sense of how you'll feel about it 985 00:46:30,793 --> 00:46:33,000 and how exciting and empowering that can be. 986 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,448 [rock music] 987 00:46:34,448 --> 00:46:36,517 - Mark Arm always had these 988 00:46:36,517 --> 00:46:39,655 cynical, wiseass jokes. 989 00:46:39,655 --> 00:46:41,448 He decided to ask, "I would like 990 00:46:41,448 --> 00:46:45,068 "to invite everybody on stage." 991 00:46:45,068 --> 00:46:46,310 They did. 992 00:46:46,310 --> 00:46:50,931 ♪ I've been so close to no way out ♪ 993 00:46:50,931 --> 00:46:52,655 - We called it the friendly riot. 994 00:46:52,655 --> 00:46:55,413 You know, this was the arrival of grunge mania. 995 00:46:55,413 --> 00:46:57,137 - An out-of-control good time. 996 00:46:57,137 --> 00:47:01,275 [rock music] 997 00:47:06,241 --> 00:47:08,000 - But the next day, all you heard about 998 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,896 in the press was how great Mudhoney was. 999 00:47:10,896 --> 00:47:14,068 I was bummed that we were a footnote in the review. 1000 00:47:14,068 --> 00:47:17,448 - That really established Sub Pop in Seattle 1001 00:47:17,448 --> 00:47:19,551 and Mudhoney in Europe. 1002 00:47:19,551 --> 00:47:22,517 - That started the whole thing, especially in England. 1003 00:47:27,310 --> 00:47:29,448 - The basic feeling was 1004 00:47:29,448 --> 00:47:32,344 we were still cruising under the radar 1005 00:47:32,344 --> 00:47:36,000 and nobody really knew, except for us, 1006 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,172 just how big the scene had gotten, 1007 00:47:39,172 --> 00:47:42,931 so it was with that intention that we said, 1008 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,724 "We're gonna do a show in the Moore. 1009 00:47:45,724 --> 00:47:47,655 "And not only are we gonna do a show in the Moore, 1010 00:47:47,655 --> 00:47:49,275 "we're gonna sell it out." 1011 00:47:49,275 --> 00:47:50,724 - I just thought they were crazy. 1012 00:47:50,724 --> 00:47:52,827 Nirvana, at that point, was barely known. 1013 00:47:52,827 --> 00:47:55,896 TAD had something out. 1014 00:47:55,896 --> 00:47:59,931 - The bands had all been playing these little clubs. 1015 00:47:59,931 --> 00:48:02,172 The Rainbow Tavern, the Central. 1016 00:48:02,172 --> 00:48:05,034 There's a club around the corner called the Ditto. 1017 00:48:05,034 --> 00:48:08,275 These are all rooms that held a couple hundred people. 1018 00:48:08,275 --> 00:48:11,689 Playing the Moore at that time, 1019 00:48:11,689 --> 00:48:13,517 not opening for somebody 1020 00:48:13,517 --> 00:48:15,310 but actually headlining at the Moore, 1021 00:48:15,310 --> 00:48:18,551 that was seen to be a pretty big accomplishment. 1022 00:48:18,551 --> 00:48:22,000 We knew how popular these bands had become in town, 1023 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,206 and we wanted to strut our stuff a little bit. 1024 00:48:25,206 --> 00:48:26,862 Wake people up. 1025 00:48:26,862 --> 00:48:31,137 [crowd cheering, rock music] 1026 00:48:38,413 --> 00:48:41,034 - Needless to say, the venue sold out. 1027 00:48:41,034 --> 00:48:43,034 People went crazy. 1028 00:48:43,034 --> 00:48:45,586 It was total mayhem. 1029 00:48:45,586 --> 00:48:49,000 ["No One Has" by Mudhoney] 1030 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,448 ♪ I've been so close to no way out ♪ 1031 00:48:52,448 --> 00:48:54,448 - Now it was no longer these people 1032 00:48:54,448 --> 00:48:57,275 in this core group of musicians and fans 1033 00:48:57,275 --> 00:48:59,344 that was always the Seattle scene. 1034 00:48:59,344 --> 00:49:02,034 It's now reaching out to the suburbs. 1035 00:49:04,379 --> 00:49:07,862 ♪ I don't lock the door no more ♪ 1036 00:49:12,413 --> 00:49:14,965 - That really got the attention of the main writers 1037 00:49:14,965 --> 00:49:16,758 for the local papers. 1038 00:49:17,965 --> 00:49:20,344 We couldn't be ignored after that show. 1039 00:49:20,344 --> 00:49:25,034 [singing] 1040 00:49:26,827 --> 00:49:28,551 - After the show, word on the street was 1041 00:49:28,551 --> 00:49:32,517 that Seattle was just blowing up. 1042 00:49:32,517 --> 00:49:36,827 [rock music] 1043 00:49:39,068 --> 00:49:40,931 They had a relentless release schedule. 1044 00:49:40,931 --> 00:49:43,206 Now, our whole strategy of attack 1045 00:49:43,206 --> 00:49:46,034 was to just keep putting something out, 1046 00:49:46,034 --> 00:49:51,000 and it built to the album, and the album did great. 1047 00:49:51,896 --> 00:49:54,172 - The thing that I remember the most? 1048 00:49:54,172 --> 00:49:58,344 We work radio right before records come out. 1049 00:49:58,344 --> 00:50:02,379 It came in as a CMJ #1 added record, 1050 00:50:02,379 --> 00:50:05,068 and that we had a #1 record at CMJ 1051 00:50:05,068 --> 00:50:08,413 was a huge, huge fucking deal. 1052 00:50:08,413 --> 00:50:10,931 - That was at the height of hair metal. 1053 00:50:10,931 --> 00:50:12,862 It was at the height of so many things 1054 00:50:12,862 --> 00:50:15,275 that were considered to be 1055 00:50:15,275 --> 00:50:18,551 the cultural rule, 1056 00:50:18,551 --> 00:50:20,482 and yet what they were doing up there 1057 00:50:20,482 --> 00:50:22,379 was like, "Fuck it, 1058 00:50:22,379 --> 00:50:23,827 "whatever you're doing out there 1059 00:50:23,827 --> 00:50:25,724 "has nothing to do with what we're doing in here." 1060 00:50:27,379 --> 00:50:32,068 - We ramped up our marketing efforts, did some videos. 1061 00:50:33,344 --> 00:50:36,931 It was, like, a grown-up 1062 00:50:36,931 --> 00:50:41,827 independent rock record marketing spree. 1063 00:50:41,827 --> 00:50:46,206 ["Here Comes Sickness" by Mudhoney] 1064 00:50:55,586 --> 00:50:57,862 ♪ Here comes sickness 1065 00:50:57,862 --> 00:51:00,172 ♪ Walking down my street 1066 00:51:00,172 --> 00:51:01,827 - I was quickly kind of 1067 00:51:01,827 --> 00:51:04,793 underwhelmed by it after it was done. 1068 00:51:04,793 --> 00:51:07,724 - It was kind of more of the same as "Superfuzz," 1069 00:51:07,724 --> 00:51:09,172 maybe without the urgency. 1070 00:51:09,172 --> 00:51:11,379 There's some really good songs on there, I think. 1071 00:51:11,379 --> 00:51:14,000 "Superfuzz," being a six-song EP, 1072 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,310 is really concise and to the point. 1073 00:51:17,310 --> 00:51:18,620 There's no filler on it. 1074 00:51:18,620 --> 00:51:20,827 You know, we don't write an album and go, 1075 00:51:20,827 --> 00:51:22,413 "This song is filler," but, you know, 1076 00:51:22,413 --> 00:51:23,931 after a while you kind of can step back 1077 00:51:23,931 --> 00:51:27,034 and go, "Maybe that song isn't quite as good as this one." 1078 00:51:27,034 --> 00:51:30,793 - OK, well, that was, you know, the sophomore slump. 1079 00:51:30,793 --> 00:51:32,655 We didn't raise the bar any. 1080 00:51:32,655 --> 00:51:36,137 ♪ At you 1081 00:51:45,344 --> 00:51:47,620 - Is it true you want to break up now? 1082 00:51:47,620 --> 00:51:50,137 Why, I mean, what's going to be the future 1083 00:51:50,137 --> 00:51:53,413 for grunge rock and things? 1084 00:51:53,413 --> 00:51:56,379 - I don't know, Steve's going back to school 1085 00:51:56,379 --> 00:51:58,551 and Dan's going to play drums for Nirvana, 1086 00:51:58,551 --> 00:51:59,862 so me and Mark are just gonna, 1087 00:51:59,862 --> 00:52:01,482 I don't know, something might come along. 1088 00:52:01,482 --> 00:52:03,965 There'll be other bands in Seattle still. 1089 00:52:03,965 --> 00:52:05,931 There are still good bands there. 1090 00:52:05,931 --> 00:52:08,655 - I'm sure I'll play music of some sort for all my life, 1091 00:52:08,655 --> 00:52:12,482 but I've never wanted to be like a rock star 1092 00:52:12,482 --> 00:52:15,000 or like a professional musician, really. 1093 00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,310 I just always played in bad punk rock bands, 1094 00:52:18,310 --> 00:52:21,000 and that's what I intend to keep doing. 1095 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,000 We're not really saying we're breaking up, 1096 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,689 'cause you never know, 1097 00:52:24,689 --> 00:52:27,413 we might be back together at some point. 1098 00:52:27,413 --> 00:52:29,103 - [Voiceover] You know, at the time when the band was, 1099 00:52:29,103 --> 00:52:31,103 you know, doing really, really well, 1100 00:52:31,103 --> 00:52:33,517 Steve decided that he wanted to go back to school. 1101 00:52:33,517 --> 00:52:36,379 - You know, when the band started, I mean, 1102 00:52:36,379 --> 00:52:38,206 our initial thing was like, 1103 00:52:38,206 --> 00:52:40,241 "We're gonna be lucky to get a single out." 1104 00:52:40,241 --> 00:52:41,758 We accomplished that. 1105 00:52:41,758 --> 00:52:43,310 At the time, it seemed like most bands 1106 00:52:43,310 --> 00:52:45,172 had three good years in them. 1107 00:52:45,172 --> 00:52:47,172 Steve was, more than anybody else, 1108 00:52:47,172 --> 00:52:49,241 kind of really married to that idea. 1109 00:52:49,241 --> 00:52:50,896 And so I think he probably just thought, 1110 00:52:50,896 --> 00:52:52,896 "Well, this is the thing I'm doing 1111 00:52:52,896 --> 00:52:54,310 "at this point in my life 1112 00:52:54,310 --> 00:52:56,068 "and I'm gonna eventually go back to school 1113 00:52:56,068 --> 00:52:57,724 "and get that anthropology degree 1114 00:52:57,724 --> 00:53:00,448 "and go become a professor somewhere or something." 1115 00:53:00,448 --> 00:53:01,931 I don't know. 1116 00:53:01,931 --> 00:53:06,103 - I still could not imagine music being, you know, a living. 1117 00:53:06,103 --> 00:53:07,517 I don't think I wanted it, really, 1118 00:53:07,517 --> 00:53:09,551 and I think I was in denial that it could have been. 1119 00:53:09,551 --> 00:53:11,241 I know I didn't like the record very much. 1120 00:53:11,241 --> 00:53:13,103 Just wanted distance ourselves 1121 00:53:13,103 --> 00:53:17,689 from what was becoming known as the grunge thing in Seattle. 1122 00:53:17,689 --> 00:53:21,827 [rock music] 1123 00:53:23,586 --> 00:53:25,931 - I had run into the girlfriends 1124 00:53:25,931 --> 00:53:28,655 of Kurt and Krist at a show, 1125 00:53:28,655 --> 00:53:32,275 and they had told me Nirvana was looking for a new drummer. 1126 00:53:32,275 --> 00:53:34,103 Chad wasn't gonna be in the band anymore. 1127 00:53:34,103 --> 00:53:35,965 I'm like, "Well, you know, 1128 00:53:35,965 --> 00:53:37,517 "I'm not gonna be doing anything for awhile." 1129 00:53:37,517 --> 00:53:39,413 Let them know that I'd like to play with them 1130 00:53:39,413 --> 00:53:41,000 if they were interested. 1131 00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,931 [rock music] 1132 00:53:48,896 --> 00:53:50,827 I had played a show with them 1133 00:53:50,827 --> 00:53:52,827 at the Motorsports International Garage. 1134 00:53:52,827 --> 00:53:55,310 It was a big show for them in town. 1135 00:53:55,310 --> 00:53:57,172 There was supposed to be a photo shoot 1136 00:53:57,172 --> 00:53:59,172 the next day after that show for 1137 00:53:59,172 --> 00:54:00,793 the cover of Sounds Magazine. 1138 00:54:00,793 --> 00:54:02,758 I went to Tacoma and did the photo shoot, 1139 00:54:02,758 --> 00:54:05,448 and then they took off and went to talk to labels. 1140 00:54:05,448 --> 00:54:07,551 When they got back from that, Kurt gave me a call 1141 00:54:07,551 --> 00:54:10,034 and he's like, "Looks like we're gonna sign to Geffen," 1142 00:54:10,034 --> 00:54:12,068 and I'm like, "Eh, all right." 1143 00:54:12,068 --> 00:54:15,413 I'm like, "So what's happened with that English tour?" 1144 00:54:15,413 --> 00:54:18,379 He's like, "Oh, yeah, that's why I'm calling. 1145 00:54:18,379 --> 00:54:20,724 "We got another drummer." 1146 00:54:20,724 --> 00:54:21,931 I'm like, "Oh." 1147 00:54:21,931 --> 00:54:23,517 Turned out to be, of course, Dave, 1148 00:54:23,517 --> 00:54:25,172 who was at the show that I played, 1149 00:54:25,172 --> 00:54:28,689 who was at the photo session that I did with those guys. 1150 00:54:28,689 --> 00:54:30,655 They all knew full well at the time 1151 00:54:30,655 --> 00:54:33,379 that I was not gonna be in the band, 1152 00:54:33,379 --> 00:54:34,655 but didn't say anything. 1153 00:54:34,655 --> 00:54:35,862 The great thing that happened 1154 00:54:35,862 --> 00:54:37,517 after the Nirvana thing didn't work out 1155 00:54:37,517 --> 00:54:39,379 was I ended up playing drums for the Screaming Trees 1156 00:54:39,379 --> 00:54:42,275 for almost a year or half a year or something, 1157 00:54:42,275 --> 00:54:43,793 and that was great. 1158 00:54:43,793 --> 00:54:47,413 - You know, we were still practicing and writing songs. 1159 00:54:47,413 --> 00:54:49,620 - I'm like, "Steve, what the fuck's going on? 1160 00:54:49,620 --> 00:54:52,275 "What do you got? What's, you know... 1161 00:54:52,275 --> 00:54:54,344 "The Trees wanna go and record a new record 1162 00:54:54,344 --> 00:54:57,137 "and they wanna continue touring and stuff. 1163 00:54:57,137 --> 00:54:58,413 "What's up?" 1164 00:54:58,413 --> 00:55:01,000 And he was like, "Uhhh, I think we should tour." 1165 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:02,758 And I'm like, "All right." 1166 00:55:02,758 --> 00:55:05,034 So, I mean, that was an easy choice for me 1167 00:55:05,034 --> 00:55:06,551 to go back to Mudhoney. 1168 00:55:06,551 --> 00:55:09,586 The energy and the vibe and stuff, 1169 00:55:09,586 --> 00:55:10,758 you couldn't beat it. 1170 00:55:10,758 --> 00:55:11,965 I stopped playing with the Trees, 1171 00:55:11,965 --> 00:55:14,206 and, of course, they went on to make 1172 00:55:14,206 --> 00:55:17,241 one of their most successful records of all time as well. 1173 00:55:17,241 --> 00:55:19,275 [laughing] 1174 00:55:19,275 --> 00:55:21,275 Apparently if I join a band but don't play on their record, 1175 00:55:21,275 --> 00:55:25,586 they're gonna go off and maybe have some good success. 1176 00:55:28,724 --> 00:55:32,310 - Well, for Sub Pop, 1991 was 1177 00:55:32,310 --> 00:55:34,517 the make or break year, 1178 00:55:34,517 --> 00:55:37,000 and I believe it was 1179 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,655 the early summer of '91 1180 00:55:40,655 --> 00:55:45,000 that Jon and I basically laid off everybody. 1181 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,068 We'd come in the office and pack up a box of records 1182 00:55:48,068 --> 00:55:51,172 to ship to Japan and maybe get a couple hundred dollars, 1183 00:55:51,172 --> 00:55:53,862 and we were really on our last legs 1184 00:55:53,862 --> 00:55:57,172 when "Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge" came out. 1185 00:55:58,517 --> 00:56:01,896 If it wasn't for that release, 1186 00:56:01,896 --> 00:56:03,068 there's a very good chance 1187 00:56:03,068 --> 00:56:05,655 that we would have folded the company. 1188 00:56:05,655 --> 00:56:09,172 Sub Pop has always been very grateful to Mudhoney 1189 00:56:09,172 --> 00:56:12,413 for staying with us like they did. 1190 00:56:12,413 --> 00:56:16,034 ♪ Whatever happens 1191 00:56:16,034 --> 00:56:18,379 ♪ Never thought for a second 1192 00:56:18,379 --> 00:56:22,275 ♪ That I'd let go 1193 00:56:22,275 --> 00:56:25,241 ♪ Uh-huh 1194 00:56:25,241 --> 00:56:28,000 - "Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge," to me, 1195 00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,344 may be the defining work that Mudhoney has released, 1196 00:56:32,344 --> 00:56:36,758 and I know I'm not alone in that thought. 1197 00:56:36,758 --> 00:56:41,586 That record married their wit, their songwriting skills, 1198 00:56:41,586 --> 00:56:45,931 but there is a level of sophistication, 1199 00:56:45,931 --> 00:56:49,275 but equal parts sophistication 1200 00:56:49,275 --> 00:56:51,448 and dinge. 1201 00:56:51,448 --> 00:56:53,379 That's another word for grunge. 1202 00:56:53,379 --> 00:56:55,896 And just fucking great jams. 1203 00:56:55,896 --> 00:56:59,172 - At that time, selling 100,000 albums 1204 00:56:59,172 --> 00:57:02,689 on an indie label, that didn't happen too often. 1205 00:57:02,689 --> 00:57:04,517 That was like going platinum, 1206 00:57:04,517 --> 00:57:05,793 and we were very proud of the record 1207 00:57:05,793 --> 00:57:08,000 because it was such an awesome disc. 1208 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,827 ♪ They can make it sound so nice 1209 00:57:10,827 --> 00:57:15,172 ♪ Everybody's got a price 1210 00:57:17,931 --> 00:57:21,551 ♪ Ho, ho, ho, ho 1211 00:57:21,551 --> 00:57:22,931 - I think it's a really good record, 1212 00:57:22,931 --> 00:57:25,655 and it was a good change of direction. 1213 00:57:25,655 --> 00:57:28,137 You know, at that time I was doing a lot more dope, 1214 00:57:28,137 --> 00:57:30,344 and I think Steve definitely picked up the slack 1215 00:57:30,344 --> 00:57:32,137 and kind of drove that record. 1216 00:57:32,137 --> 00:57:36,275 [rock music] 1217 00:57:39,931 --> 00:57:41,034 - I guess it kind of gets tagged 1218 00:57:41,034 --> 00:57:43,413 more of a garage punk kind of record. 1219 00:57:43,413 --> 00:57:44,620 We'd stripped things down 1220 00:57:44,620 --> 00:57:46,068 and simplified things a little bit. 1221 00:57:46,068 --> 00:57:47,758 Also, 'cause it was a pretty crude 1222 00:57:47,758 --> 00:57:49,344 8-track studio at the time. 1223 00:57:49,344 --> 00:57:52,103 If Mark had the Farfisa on the song, 1224 00:57:52,103 --> 00:57:54,793 there couldn't be a second guitar. [laughing] 1225 00:57:55,655 --> 00:57:58,724 ♪ Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey 1226 00:57:58,724 --> 00:58:01,482 ♪ Who you driving 1227 00:58:01,482 --> 00:58:04,758 ♪ Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey 1228 00:58:04,758 --> 00:58:08,827 ♪ Who you driving now 1229 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:11,896 ♪ Now 1230 00:58:13,379 --> 00:58:15,103 - [Voiceover] But it wasn't enough 1231 00:58:15,103 --> 00:58:19,586 for the company to be in the black. 1232 00:58:19,586 --> 00:58:24,068 - They had an enormous amount of patience with us, 1233 00:58:24,068 --> 00:58:28,862 because even though we knew what we were doing 1234 00:58:28,862 --> 00:58:30,862 or what we were trying to do, 1235 00:58:30,862 --> 00:58:33,655 those guys didn't sign on 1236 00:58:33,655 --> 00:58:37,137 to uphold that. 1237 00:58:37,137 --> 00:58:39,172 You know, they were our friends 1238 00:58:39,172 --> 00:58:40,931 and they believed in us and they believed in 1239 00:58:40,931 --> 00:58:44,758 the vision of the label to a certain degree, 1240 00:58:44,758 --> 00:58:46,965 but, you know, they had their own interests 1241 00:58:46,965 --> 00:58:48,689 to manage and maintain. 1242 00:58:48,689 --> 00:58:50,758 - You know, leaving Sub Pop was rough. 1243 00:58:50,758 --> 00:58:53,551 It wasn't something that I'm proud of 1244 00:58:53,551 --> 00:58:54,931 or happy about doing. 1245 00:58:54,931 --> 00:58:57,448 It just seemed really unloyal to me to leave. 1246 00:58:57,448 --> 00:58:59,413 - It was getting uncomfortable, 1247 00:58:59,413 --> 00:59:02,379 and we started worrying that they were going to 1248 00:59:02,379 --> 00:59:05,344 go out of business owing us 75,000 bucks or something, 1249 00:59:05,344 --> 00:59:08,103 and it was really gonna destroy any kind of friendships. 1250 00:59:08,103 --> 00:59:12,241 I think us leaving kind of ruined the friendships anyway, 1251 00:59:12,241 --> 00:59:14,517 kind of, but I don't think there was any way around it. 1252 00:59:14,517 --> 00:59:17,689 [rock music] 1253 00:59:17,689 --> 00:59:19,793 - What ended up happening was, 1254 00:59:19,793 --> 00:59:21,620 it got the company to a point 1255 00:59:21,620 --> 00:59:23,758 where it could survive just a little bit longer, 1256 00:59:23,758 --> 00:59:25,931 and then "Nevermind" happened, 1257 00:59:25,931 --> 00:59:27,724 and it ended up being "Nevermind" 1258 00:59:27,724 --> 00:59:29,586 that kind of pushed the company, really, 1259 00:59:29,586 --> 00:59:32,241 into a better financial place, 1260 00:59:32,241 --> 00:59:33,689 where they could kind of regroup 1261 00:59:33,689 --> 00:59:36,000 and figure out what the plan was. 1262 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,655 - If we had known that Sub Pop was gonna be 1263 00:59:38,655 --> 00:59:42,103 kept afloat by Nirvana signing to a major label, 1264 00:59:42,103 --> 00:59:44,413 I don't think we would have left the label. 1265 00:59:44,413 --> 00:59:46,034 You know, we probably would have just 1266 00:59:46,034 --> 00:59:47,482 kind of like weathered the storm 1267 00:59:47,482 --> 00:59:49,344 and waited 'til that happened, 1268 00:59:49,344 --> 00:59:52,068 but, of course, we didn't know that was gonna happen. 1269 00:59:52,068 --> 00:59:56,379 Sub Pop was distributed at the time by a record label 1270 00:59:56,379 --> 00:59:58,965 in New York called Caroline Records, 1271 00:59:58,965 --> 01:00:00,172 so we thought, "Well, 1272 01:00:00,172 --> 01:00:01,517 "maybe we'll just cut out the middleman." 1273 01:00:01,517 --> 01:00:02,827 President of the label came out, 1274 01:00:02,827 --> 01:00:05,137 his name was Keith something or other. 1275 01:00:05,137 --> 01:00:07,000 I wish I could totally remember the name, 1276 01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,689 just because people like this need to have their names, 1277 01:00:09,689 --> 01:00:11,689 they need to be called out, right? 1278 01:00:11,689 --> 01:00:13,310 He took us to a nice lunch, 1279 01:00:13,310 --> 01:00:15,482 started telling us what we could and could not do 1280 01:00:15,482 --> 01:00:16,793 if we signed to Caroline. 1281 01:00:16,793 --> 01:00:18,241 He said we would have to tour 1282 01:00:18,241 --> 01:00:19,827 for nine months out of the year. 1283 01:00:19,827 --> 01:00:21,586 That's what Smashing Pumpkins were doing 1284 01:00:21,586 --> 01:00:22,689 and it was really helping them, 1285 01:00:22,689 --> 01:00:24,724 and it's like, "Why are you 1286 01:00:24,724 --> 01:00:27,103 "even comparing us to Smashing Pumpkins? 1287 01:00:27,103 --> 01:00:28,413 "Come on." 1288 01:00:28,413 --> 01:00:29,793 - Talked about how, "You need to polish up 1289 01:00:29,793 --> 01:00:31,310 "those guitar stands and stuff." 1290 01:00:31,310 --> 01:00:33,482 - And how, like, we needed to do a few more records 1291 01:00:33,482 --> 01:00:37,068 before we could become a major label band. 1292 01:00:37,068 --> 01:00:39,689 We needed to work on sweetening up our sound 1293 01:00:39,689 --> 01:00:41,517 [laughing] and shit like that. 1294 01:00:41,517 --> 01:00:42,931 - That's all we've got. 1295 01:00:42,931 --> 01:00:44,344 It's our guitar sound, you know? 1296 01:00:44,344 --> 01:00:46,413 You want us to totally lose, like, our identity? 1297 01:00:46,413 --> 01:00:48,896 ♪ You stupid asshole 1298 01:00:48,896 --> 01:00:52,172 So we thought, if this is what an independent label 1299 01:00:52,172 --> 01:00:56,379 is gonna throw at us, we might as well 1300 01:00:56,379 --> 01:00:59,310 meet with major labels and see what they have to say. 1301 01:00:59,310 --> 01:01:02,172 ♪ One, two, I'm looking at you 1302 01:01:04,103 --> 01:01:05,655 - Major labels basically had to admit 1303 01:01:05,655 --> 01:01:08,172 they had no idea what was gonna be popular 1304 01:01:08,172 --> 01:01:09,931 with the youngsters anymore. 1305 01:01:09,931 --> 01:01:11,551 They had lost complete control. 1306 01:01:11,551 --> 01:01:12,758 When Nirvana hit big, you know, 1307 01:01:12,758 --> 01:01:14,965 that just changed everything. 1308 01:01:14,965 --> 01:01:17,103 Like, they went, "Oh, we don't know why this is popular. 1309 01:01:17,103 --> 01:01:19,000 "We have no idea what's going on now." 1310 01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:20,413 - All the majors said the same thing. 1311 01:01:20,413 --> 01:01:22,206 "Oh, we're gonna come out with guns blazing. 1312 01:01:22,206 --> 01:01:24,000 "We're gonna have all these advertisements. 1313 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:25,862 "You're gonna get the most support," blah blah blah. 1314 01:01:27,586 --> 01:01:30,137 The Mudhoney guys are all very savvy dudes, 1315 01:01:30,137 --> 01:01:32,344 and they're a very quick read to personalities. 1316 01:01:32,344 --> 01:01:34,620 - You just kind of knew immediately, like, 1317 01:01:34,620 --> 01:01:36,000 this is not gonna work. 1318 01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:37,379 [laughing] 1319 01:01:37,379 --> 01:01:39,482 - We're trying to capture audience's interest 1320 01:01:39,482 --> 01:01:42,172 and soften them up so that the salesmen 1321 01:01:42,172 --> 01:01:44,793 can sock 'em with a good old hard sell. 1322 01:01:44,793 --> 01:01:46,724 - We were not looking to start a bidding war 1323 01:01:46,724 --> 01:01:48,620 because we didn't want to get into kind of a trap 1324 01:01:48,620 --> 01:01:50,827 where we, like, owed somebody a shitload of money, 1325 01:01:50,827 --> 01:01:53,482 and we went with David Katznelson at Reprise 1326 01:01:53,482 --> 01:01:55,793 because both the label and he seemed like 1327 01:01:55,793 --> 01:01:58,551 the most reasonable people out there that we'd met with. 1328 01:01:58,551 --> 01:02:01,413 - [Voiceover] Yeah, Dave just seemed to be cooler 1329 01:02:01,413 --> 01:02:04,413 and outgoing and a fun guy. 1330 01:02:04,413 --> 01:02:06,068 - I was really, really nervous. 1331 01:02:06,068 --> 01:02:08,275 I was still at a period of time in my career 1332 01:02:08,275 --> 01:02:09,344 where whenever I would talk to a band 1333 01:02:09,344 --> 01:02:11,000 I was always the younger person. 1334 01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,655 I was always the fan, 1335 01:02:12,655 --> 01:02:13,931 and I was always the person who was like, 1336 01:02:13,931 --> 01:02:15,827 "I really, should I even be here? 1337 01:02:15,827 --> 01:02:17,896 "Who am I to be talking to these guys?" 1338 01:02:17,896 --> 01:02:20,172 First person I met was Bob Whittaker, 1339 01:02:20,172 --> 01:02:23,965 and Bob was a larger-than-life figure. 1340 01:02:23,965 --> 01:02:26,137 He would take me to his place 1341 01:02:26,137 --> 01:02:29,275 and, you know, sit me in this huge dentist chair that he had 1342 01:02:29,275 --> 01:02:31,172 and start throwing all these records 1343 01:02:31,172 --> 01:02:32,655 of what was going on in the scene 1344 01:02:32,655 --> 01:02:34,310 while plying me with alcohol 1345 01:02:34,310 --> 01:02:36,000 and then, while we were doing that, 1346 01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:37,620 trying to talk business with me at the same time, 1347 01:02:37,620 --> 01:02:40,413 and I was doing everything I could, 1348 01:02:40,413 --> 01:02:43,655 everything I could possibly do to keep focused 1349 01:02:43,655 --> 01:02:47,586 and keep attempting to keep on target 1350 01:02:47,586 --> 01:02:49,862 of what I was out there trying to do. 1351 01:02:49,862 --> 01:02:51,137 - When we met with Warner Brothers, 1352 01:02:51,137 --> 01:02:52,793 I was really concerned 'cause, you know, 1353 01:02:52,793 --> 01:02:55,896 the Replacements and Husker Du had both signed 1354 01:02:55,896 --> 01:02:58,000 [mumbling] Warner Brothers, 1355 01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,241 and all of a sudden, once they got onto the major label, 1356 01:03:01,241 --> 01:03:03,379 their records sounded way slicker. 1357 01:03:03,379 --> 01:03:05,379 - I think the band itself was really worried 1358 01:03:05,379 --> 01:03:07,241 about having to go to a major label. 1359 01:03:07,241 --> 01:03:09,344 The typical stuff, going to a major label, 1360 01:03:09,344 --> 01:03:12,103 being changed, and these are all things 1361 01:03:12,103 --> 01:03:13,896 that were on their minds when they were talking to me. 1362 01:03:13,896 --> 01:03:16,379 - I asked Lenny Waronker, who was the president at the time, 1363 01:03:16,379 --> 01:03:18,931 "Why did you do this to these bands?" 1364 01:03:18,931 --> 01:03:20,517 and he was like, "We didn't do anything to these bands. 1365 01:03:20,517 --> 01:03:22,241 "They just did what they wanted to do." 1366 01:03:22,241 --> 01:03:24,000 And I'm sure the bands probably thought, 1367 01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,068 "Well, if we record a slicker record, 1368 01:03:26,068 --> 01:03:27,931 "then it's more likely to get radio airplay 1369 01:03:27,931 --> 01:03:29,413 "and stuff like this," 1370 01:03:29,413 --> 01:03:32,206 so we intentionally went to the exact same basement studio 1371 01:03:32,206 --> 01:03:33,827 that we did our previous record, 1372 01:03:33,827 --> 01:03:36,379 to kind of prove a point that, you know, 1373 01:03:36,379 --> 01:03:37,931 just because we're on a major label 1374 01:03:37,931 --> 01:03:40,620 we're not gonna, like, compromise our sound. 1375 01:03:40,620 --> 01:03:42,310 - There was so much excitement 1376 01:03:42,310 --> 01:03:44,448 about the movement that they were a part of 1377 01:03:44,448 --> 01:03:48,000 and them themselves that it was really unstoppable. 1378 01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:51,758 ["Blinding Sun" by Mudhoney] 1379 01:03:54,551 --> 01:03:59,275 ♪ We fell asleep on the riverbank one sunny afternoon 1380 01:04:01,137 --> 01:04:02,862 ♪ We fell asleep on the riverbank ♪ 1381 01:04:02,862 --> 01:04:04,068 - Once we were on a major label 1382 01:04:04,068 --> 01:04:05,241 and the contracts were signed, we realized 1383 01:04:05,241 --> 01:04:07,172 we had these budgets for every record. 1384 01:04:07,172 --> 01:04:10,482 We found out that what we didn't use 1385 01:04:10,482 --> 01:04:12,241 of the recording budget in the studio, 1386 01:04:12,241 --> 01:04:13,551 we actually got to keep. 1387 01:04:13,551 --> 01:04:15,103 - Rather than going to the Bahamas 1388 01:04:15,103 --> 01:04:16,551 and recording at Compass Point 1389 01:04:16,551 --> 01:04:19,000 or whatever you're supposed to do with your $200,000, 1390 01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:20,551 their thing was to keep the money 1391 01:04:20,551 --> 01:04:22,448 and just use some of it to record with. 1392 01:04:22,448 --> 01:04:25,482 - And then we would spend 20 of it or whatever 1393 01:04:25,482 --> 01:04:26,862 recording the record, you know, 1394 01:04:26,862 --> 01:04:29,931 and then you could pocket the rest. [laughing] 1395 01:04:29,931 --> 01:04:31,068 [cash register dings] 1396 01:04:31,068 --> 01:04:34,793 - We're punks! We're rebels! [laughing] 1397 01:04:36,862 --> 01:04:39,689 ♪ Everybody loves us 1398 01:04:39,689 --> 01:04:42,758 ♪ Everybody loves our town 1399 01:04:42,758 --> 01:04:45,620 ♪ That's why I'm thinking lately 1400 01:04:45,620 --> 01:04:49,034 ♪ Time for leaving is now 1401 01:04:50,517 --> 01:04:52,827 ♪ Hey, hey, hey, hey 1402 01:04:52,827 --> 01:04:55,724 - Mark's ode to the Seattle scene at the time. 1403 01:04:55,724 --> 01:04:59,689 ♪ It's so overblown 1404 01:05:00,448 --> 01:05:02,241 - It was recorded for $62, 1405 01:05:02,241 --> 01:05:04,551 or $162, I can't remember which. 1406 01:05:04,551 --> 01:05:06,827 Our attorney at the time told me 1407 01:05:06,827 --> 01:05:09,275 not to let the label find out how much we paid 1408 01:05:09,275 --> 01:05:10,931 for the recording of that song 1409 01:05:10,931 --> 01:05:13,793 that was on the platinum soundtrack for singles. 1410 01:05:13,793 --> 01:05:15,344 "Don't let them find out that you're paying 1411 01:05:15,344 --> 01:05:18,482 "$162 for that recording," because, you know, 1412 01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,344 we got a check for a lot more. 1413 01:05:22,344 --> 01:05:24,413 - Well, it's always good to get money. [laughing] 1414 01:05:24,413 --> 01:05:27,931 ♪ I'll just sit and grin 1415 01:05:27,931 --> 01:05:31,000 ♪ The money will roll right in 1416 01:05:33,344 --> 01:05:37,000 - I'll get money out of my famous name, one way or another. 1417 01:05:37,862 --> 01:05:39,931 - [Voiceover] You know, that allowed all of us 1418 01:05:39,931 --> 01:05:42,310 to eventually make down payments on houses. 1419 01:05:42,310 --> 01:05:44,551 - So that's kind of how we tried to operate each time. 1420 01:05:44,551 --> 01:05:47,655 - All musicians know what it's like to struggle. 1421 01:05:47,655 --> 01:05:49,793 They bought roofs over their heads, 1422 01:05:49,793 --> 01:05:50,827 which actually shows what a good 1423 01:05:50,827 --> 01:05:52,517 survivalist instinct they have. 1424 01:05:52,517 --> 01:05:55,000 - Some of them had stock and stuff like that. 1425 01:05:57,172 --> 01:06:00,655 ♪ It's fun to be a star 1426 01:06:00,655 --> 01:06:03,655 ♪ It's nice to have a car 1427 01:06:03,655 --> 01:06:06,862 ♪ Yeah, you'll have to admit 1428 01:06:06,862 --> 01:06:10,551 ♪ That I'll be rich as shit 1429 01:06:10,551 --> 01:06:14,000 ♪ And I'll just sit and grin 1430 01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,965 ♪ The money will roll right in 1431 01:06:24,206 --> 01:06:27,000 - The title "Piece of Cake" kind of says it all to me. 1432 01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,275 I mean, it's like, things have come so easy to this band. 1433 01:06:30,275 --> 01:06:32,172 We do one single, we're going to Europe. 1434 01:06:32,172 --> 01:06:34,103 Oh, we're going out there with Sonic Youth. 1435 01:06:34,103 --> 01:06:36,724 We're getting attention straightaway. 1436 01:06:36,724 --> 01:06:38,310 Our whole approach was kind of like, 1437 01:06:38,310 --> 01:06:39,724 "We can do that. That's a piece of cake. 1438 01:06:39,724 --> 01:06:40,896 "Yeah, sure." 1439 01:06:40,896 --> 01:06:42,758 Do another record? "Piece of cake." 1440 01:06:42,758 --> 01:06:44,206 And that kind of became our attitude, 1441 01:06:44,206 --> 01:06:46,620 and that was the title that we chose for that record. 1442 01:06:46,620 --> 01:06:48,758 It was like, "Yeah, it's no big deal. 1443 01:06:48,758 --> 01:06:50,379 "We're doing this. It's easy." 1444 01:06:50,379 --> 01:06:51,965 And it shouldn't be. 1445 01:06:51,965 --> 01:06:54,206 - I felt with those guys, when they hit the major label, 1446 01:06:54,206 --> 01:06:55,827 they just wanted to self-sabotage. 1447 01:06:55,827 --> 01:06:57,517 And if you listen to "Piece of Cake," 1448 01:06:57,517 --> 01:06:59,517 I mean it starts off with that little techno blip 1449 01:06:59,517 --> 01:07:01,103 that were just annoying, 1450 01:07:01,103 --> 01:07:02,931 and I think they deliberately did that 1451 01:07:02,931 --> 01:07:04,724 because it was sort of like a "Fuck you" 1452 01:07:04,724 --> 01:07:06,482 to being on a major label. 1453 01:07:06,482 --> 01:07:09,344 Even Nirvana, who obviously were a very good band, 1454 01:07:09,344 --> 01:07:12,758 but they wrote big hooks and big monsters anthems, 1455 01:07:12,758 --> 01:07:14,310 and Mudhoney never tried to do that, 1456 01:07:14,310 --> 01:07:16,620 to their own probably financial detriment. 1457 01:07:16,620 --> 01:07:18,241 - With Mudhoney, they came out of the box 1458 01:07:18,241 --> 01:07:22,172 and they were the #1 sale-sheeted band of the week, 1459 01:07:22,172 --> 01:07:24,482 and they ended up selling 150,000 records. 1460 01:07:24,482 --> 01:07:27,379 The label, I think, was peachy about that. 1461 01:07:27,379 --> 01:07:28,482 - [Voiceover] Do you like it, Dave? 1462 01:07:28,482 --> 01:07:30,448 - I do. I love it. 1463 01:07:30,448 --> 01:07:32,034 - The deal that we did with Mudhoney 1464 01:07:32,034 --> 01:07:34,379 was not the biggest of the offers they got, either. 1465 01:07:34,379 --> 01:07:38,482 It was a deal that was designed to recoup faster. 1466 01:07:38,482 --> 01:07:41,206 I think the point structure was a little bit better, 1467 01:07:41,206 --> 01:07:43,482 and their freedoms were a little bit better, 1468 01:07:43,482 --> 01:07:46,379 so selling 150,000 records right off the bat 1469 01:07:46,379 --> 01:07:47,724 was pretty damn good. 1470 01:07:47,724 --> 01:07:49,793 - My favorite comment on "Piece of Cake" 1471 01:07:49,793 --> 01:07:51,241 was from Bruce Pavitt. 1472 01:07:51,241 --> 01:07:53,896 His thing was, "You know, the record's only as good 1473 01:07:55,068 --> 01:07:56,827 "as its best song, basically. 1474 01:07:56,827 --> 01:07:59,068 "If it's got that one good song on it, 1475 01:07:59,068 --> 01:08:00,413 "then it's a good record." 1476 01:08:00,413 --> 01:08:03,103 ♪ Can't breathe 'til I 1477 01:08:03,103 --> 01:08:05,206 ♪ Suck you dry 1478 01:08:13,827 --> 01:08:16,172 - I think "Suck You Dry" was a rousing success, 1479 01:08:16,172 --> 01:08:19,241 and I think some other stuff on there was really half-baked. 1480 01:08:20,758 --> 01:08:24,000 I think Mark likes to take the bulk of 1481 01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,034 the credit for that. 1482 01:08:27,034 --> 01:08:30,172 - Yeah, I was really fucked up a lot of times. 1483 01:08:30,172 --> 01:08:32,068 I was really fucked up a lot in that period. 1484 01:08:32,068 --> 01:08:34,931 I was drinking a lot, doing a lot of drugs. 1485 01:08:34,931 --> 01:08:37,482 That recording session more than any other one, 1486 01:08:37,482 --> 01:08:39,000 I was probably showing up, like, 1487 01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,827 an hour, two hours late every day 1488 01:08:41,827 --> 01:08:43,758 because I was waiting to get drugs 1489 01:08:43,758 --> 01:08:45,413 before I could go over there. 1490 01:08:45,413 --> 01:08:47,931 - I had seven junkies on my roster at one point, 1491 01:08:47,931 --> 01:08:50,482 which makes life move very slow for you, 1492 01:08:50,482 --> 01:08:53,000 because when you're talking to somebody on the phone 1493 01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:56,586 who is doing heroin, if you have like 1494 01:08:56,586 --> 01:08:58,068 three things that you wanna talk to them about, 1495 01:08:58,068 --> 01:09:00,896 you might get one of those things through 1496 01:09:00,896 --> 01:09:03,137 and it'll take seven hours or five hours 1497 01:09:03,137 --> 01:09:04,344 or whatever it might be. 1498 01:09:04,344 --> 01:09:05,620 I would be on the phone with Mark a lot 1499 01:09:05,620 --> 01:09:07,827 where he would pretty much go to sleep on me 1500 01:09:07,827 --> 01:09:09,241 or something like that, 1501 01:09:09,241 --> 01:09:12,448 and it was happening since before I got involved with him. 1502 01:09:12,448 --> 01:09:14,724 - [Voiceover] Hey, Marty. Here. 1503 01:09:15,310 --> 01:09:16,724 Lookee here. 1504 01:09:16,724 --> 01:09:17,931 - What's that? 1505 01:09:17,931 --> 01:09:20,413 - H. - H? 1506 01:09:20,413 --> 01:09:21,586 What's H? 1507 01:09:21,586 --> 01:09:23,275 - Shh, not so loud. 1508 01:09:23,275 --> 01:09:25,000 It's heroin. 1509 01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,482 - I hate the way in music documentaries, 1510 01:09:28,482 --> 01:09:30,689 like Behind the Music or something, 1511 01:09:30,689 --> 01:09:33,551 the way people talk about 1512 01:09:33,551 --> 01:09:36,413 their drug use or whatever. 1513 01:09:36,413 --> 01:09:39,275 Like the music gets all kind of sappy 1514 01:09:39,275 --> 01:09:41,689 and things sort of slow down, and, 1515 01:09:43,448 --> 01:09:46,517 you know, it's like this big pivotal point 1516 01:09:46,517 --> 01:09:48,862 in this musician's career or whatever. 1517 01:09:48,862 --> 01:09:51,586 To me, when bands like Aerosmith or whatever, 1518 01:09:51,586 --> 01:09:54,310 they'll, like, just talk about their deep addiction 1519 01:09:54,310 --> 01:09:57,620 and they'll kind of glorify it, 1520 01:09:57,620 --> 01:10:00,310 you know, like their "Toxic Twins" T-shirts 1521 01:10:00,310 --> 01:10:01,827 with Joe Perry and Steve Tyler, 1522 01:10:01,827 --> 01:10:05,448 and they're all like, "We did mountains of Peruvian blow 1523 01:10:05,448 --> 01:10:08,758 "and did a lot of heroin and partied like crazy," 1524 01:10:08,758 --> 01:10:11,034 and then they go, "But don't do that, kids. 1525 01:10:11,034 --> 01:10:12,827 "It's really bad." 1526 01:10:12,827 --> 01:10:15,310 To me, it's kind of embarrassing. 1527 01:10:15,310 --> 01:10:18,379 I was a total cliche. 1528 01:10:18,379 --> 01:10:20,827 I was a rock guy strung out on heroin, 1529 01:10:20,827 --> 01:10:23,965 and actually, for awhile in there, 1530 01:10:23,965 --> 01:10:25,827 was going out with a stripper. 1531 01:10:25,827 --> 01:10:27,724 [laughing] 1532 01:10:27,724 --> 01:10:30,034 How did this happen to me? [laughing] 1533 01:10:30,034 --> 01:10:33,344 Of course, I walked through all those doors myself. 1534 01:10:33,344 --> 01:10:34,551 - When he started doing hard drugs, 1535 01:10:34,551 --> 01:10:37,931 a couple of his friends told me I had to 1536 01:10:37,931 --> 01:10:39,793 do something about it or talk to him, 1537 01:10:39,793 --> 01:10:43,620 and I was like, "Well, I don't think that's my place." 1538 01:10:43,620 --> 01:10:45,655 I'm all for personal freedom 1539 01:10:45,655 --> 01:10:48,344 to fuck yourself up if you want. 1540 01:10:48,344 --> 01:10:50,172 He's a smart guy. 1541 01:10:50,172 --> 01:10:51,793 So we never really talked about it much. 1542 01:10:51,793 --> 01:10:54,241 - I think the first time 1543 01:10:54,241 --> 01:10:58,862 anyone in Mudhoney caught wind of it 1544 01:10:58,862 --> 01:11:00,827 that I might be doing it, there was a rumor 1545 01:11:00,827 --> 01:11:03,827 that I went into the emergency for a drug overdose, 1546 01:11:03,827 --> 01:11:05,137 and I don't know how that got out, 1547 01:11:05,137 --> 01:11:08,034 but I OD'd several times. 1548 01:11:08,034 --> 01:11:11,172 Went to the Harborview Emergency. 1549 01:11:11,172 --> 01:11:13,655 Those guys had heard that and I was just like, 1550 01:11:13,655 --> 01:11:18,000 "What? No way. That's not me." 1551 01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:19,586 [laughing] 1552 01:11:19,586 --> 01:11:21,275 - People do drugs 'cause they're fun. 1553 01:11:22,482 --> 01:11:24,551 It's not always, like, can be explained away 1554 01:11:24,551 --> 01:11:25,827 like, oh, they're self-medicating 1555 01:11:25,827 --> 01:11:29,655 or they have some kind of painful something, 1556 01:11:29,655 --> 01:11:31,000 it's like, well, it's kind of fun, 1557 01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:35,482 and then the fun factor gets pushed away 1558 01:11:35,482 --> 01:11:38,206 because it's an addiction too, 1559 01:11:38,206 --> 01:11:40,586 and chemically, you're getting more and more fucked up. 1560 01:11:40,586 --> 01:11:43,379 - It really got boring after awhile. 1561 01:11:43,379 --> 01:11:46,586 I was able to go through this period with heroin 1562 01:11:46,586 --> 01:11:48,827 and come out relatively unscathed. 1563 01:11:48,827 --> 01:11:52,000 I didn't die, I didn't get AIDS. 1564 01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,517 I did get Hepatitis C, 1565 01:11:54,517 --> 01:11:57,482 which I didn't find out about until many years later. 1566 01:11:57,482 --> 01:11:58,793 That was the only thing that was like, 1567 01:11:58,793 --> 01:12:01,034 "Wow, this shit actually bit me on the ass." 1568 01:12:01,034 --> 01:12:02,724 After I stopped doing heroin, 1569 01:12:02,724 --> 01:12:04,827 I was playing in this band, Bloodloss, 1570 01:12:04,827 --> 01:12:06,068 and one of the members of the band 1571 01:12:06,068 --> 01:12:09,206 was doing heroin at the time. 1572 01:12:09,206 --> 01:12:10,724 I remember people would ask me, 1573 01:12:10,724 --> 01:12:12,931 "Man, isn't it really hard to be in a band with this guy, 1574 01:12:12,931 --> 01:12:14,551 "just after what you've gone through?" 1575 01:12:14,551 --> 01:12:16,586 And it was like, "No, it's a reminder 1576 01:12:16,586 --> 01:12:19,551 "of what I don't wanna be." 1577 01:12:19,551 --> 01:12:22,000 It wasn't like I saw him and was like, 1578 01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:23,482 "Man, I'd really like to be like that." 1579 01:12:23,482 --> 01:12:26,965 It's like, "I am so glad I am not that way anymore." 1580 01:12:29,448 --> 01:12:32,482 And actually, that was a real 1581 01:12:32,482 --> 01:12:35,137 important part of the process for me. 1582 01:12:38,551 --> 01:12:40,241 - Hi, I'm Kurt Loder with an MTV News 1583 01:12:40,241 --> 01:12:42,586 special report on a very sad day. 1584 01:12:42,586 --> 01:12:44,206 Kurt Cobain, the leader of one of rock's 1585 01:12:44,206 --> 01:12:47,758 most gifted and promising bands, Nirvana, is dead. 1586 01:12:47,758 --> 01:12:49,137 - It was a real kick in the pants 1587 01:12:49,137 --> 01:12:52,103 to the entire grunge scene, Seattle scene. 1588 01:12:52,103 --> 01:12:55,448 - No one wanted to know anything more about Seattle and us, 1589 01:12:55,448 --> 01:12:58,000 because it was such a sad tale. 1590 01:12:58,000 --> 01:12:59,482 The only bands from Seattle 1591 01:12:59,482 --> 01:13:02,137 that were doing well that year was, like, The Presidents. 1592 01:13:02,137 --> 01:13:04,068 ♪ Moving to the country 1593 01:13:04,068 --> 01:13:07,000 ♪ I'm gonna eat a lot of peaches ♪ 1594 01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:08,586 They wanted happy music now. 1595 01:13:08,586 --> 01:13:12,551 [laughing] They didn't want more of us. 1596 01:13:12,551 --> 01:13:17,310 ["Judgment, Rage, Retribution and Time" by Mudhoney] 1597 01:13:24,068 --> 01:13:27,344 ♪ When I look in the mirror 1598 01:13:27,344 --> 01:13:31,034 - We were back working with Jack for the record. 1599 01:13:31,034 --> 01:13:34,620 Almost seemed like a restatement of what our sound was. 1600 01:13:35,724 --> 01:13:37,896 It was grunge, damn it. 1601 01:13:37,896 --> 01:13:42,379 ♪ Well, it's 1995, my friend 1602 01:13:44,689 --> 01:13:48,827 ♪ Now we're closing in on the end 1603 01:13:51,310 --> 01:13:55,275 ♪ Another year for you and me 1604 01:13:57,827 --> 01:13:58,758 - [Voiceover] There were health issues 1605 01:13:58,758 --> 01:14:00,310 that had been resolved. 1606 01:14:00,310 --> 01:14:01,965 There was a whole bunch of new songs 1607 01:14:01,965 --> 01:14:03,931 that were well rehearsed 1608 01:14:03,931 --> 01:14:06,206 and seemed well arranged and ready to go. 1609 01:14:06,206 --> 01:14:08,689 - And there was one song on there 1610 01:14:08,689 --> 01:14:12,931 that Courtney Love thought was about her, 1611 01:14:12,931 --> 01:14:16,793 so she called the CEO of our company, 1612 01:14:16,793 --> 01:14:20,620 who had worked with Kurt before and knew Courtney. 1613 01:14:20,620 --> 01:14:22,000 - We did a record at Reprise. 1614 01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:23,241 We would go down there. 1615 01:14:23,241 --> 01:14:25,310 There was always kind of a courtesy meeting 1616 01:14:25,310 --> 01:14:26,620 with the president. 1617 01:14:26,620 --> 01:14:29,517 - The band was in the building, 1618 01:14:29,517 --> 01:14:32,517 was at Warner Brothers in Burbank on that day, 1619 01:14:32,517 --> 01:14:36,137 and it was Mark Arm's birthday on that day. 1620 01:14:36,137 --> 01:14:40,241 The cake was being brought to Mark with the candles on it 1621 01:14:40,241 --> 01:14:41,827 when I get a call from the CEO. 1622 01:14:41,827 --> 01:14:44,551 I pick up the phone, he has no idea that Mudhoney's in town. 1623 01:14:44,551 --> 01:14:46,517 He's like, "You know those Mudhoney guys?" 1624 01:14:46,517 --> 01:14:48,896 And I'm like, "Um, yeah." 1625 01:14:48,896 --> 01:14:53,000 And he's like, "I never wanna see those guys again. 1626 01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:54,482 "I mean, we're putting the record out, 1627 01:14:54,482 --> 01:14:55,724 "I hope it does great, 1628 01:14:55,724 --> 01:14:56,931 "but I never wanna talk to those guys again." 1629 01:14:56,931 --> 01:14:58,310 And I'm like, "What are you talking about?" 1630 01:14:58,310 --> 01:15:00,896 - David was trying to arrange the meeting with him. 1631 01:15:00,896 --> 01:15:04,103 He heard back that there was no way in hell 1632 01:15:04,103 --> 01:15:05,344 that he was gonna meet with us, 1633 01:15:05,344 --> 01:15:07,310 because of the song "Into Yer Shtik." 1634 01:15:07,310 --> 01:15:09,000 - "I never wanna meet those guys, 1635 01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:10,758 "I never wanna shake their hand, 1636 01:15:10,758 --> 01:15:12,689 "I never wanna have my picture taken with them." 1637 01:15:12,689 --> 01:15:16,655 And Dave told us that, and I'm like, 1638 01:15:16,655 --> 01:15:19,310 "Really?" I go, "That bums me out, man, 1639 01:15:19,310 --> 01:15:21,275 "because that's all I've ever wanted to do, 1640 01:15:21,275 --> 01:15:22,689 "was have my picture taken 1641 01:15:22,689 --> 01:15:24,344 "with whatever the fuck his name is." 1642 01:15:24,344 --> 01:15:27,000 Who gives a fuck if you wanna meet us or not? 1643 01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:28,724 Fucking asshole! 1644 01:15:28,724 --> 01:15:30,068 [laughing] 1645 01:15:30,068 --> 01:15:31,344 Thanks for the bottle of wine 1646 01:15:31,344 --> 01:15:33,758 you might've bought me at a dinner sometime, 1647 01:15:33,758 --> 01:15:36,034 but still, fuck you. 1648 01:15:36,034 --> 01:15:38,172 - And he's basically saying, 1649 01:15:38,172 --> 01:15:39,586 "I got a call from Courtney 1650 01:15:39,586 --> 01:15:41,275 "and she's going back into therapy 1651 01:15:41,275 --> 01:15:44,344 "because they made a song about her on this record." 1652 01:15:45,206 --> 01:15:48,517 ♪ Why don't you 1653 01:15:48,517 --> 01:15:52,896 ♪ Blow your brains out too 1654 01:15:54,241 --> 01:15:55,758 - Many people think it's directed 1655 01:15:55,758 --> 01:15:57,103 strictly at Courtney Love. 1656 01:15:57,103 --> 01:16:00,344 It's a much broader shot than that, 1657 01:16:00,344 --> 01:16:02,896 but she definitely fits. 1658 01:16:02,896 --> 01:16:06,758 Of course, this was a year after Kurt Cobain killed himself. 1659 01:16:06,758 --> 01:16:10,862 I was pretty angry with how that whole thing went down. 1660 01:16:11,862 --> 01:16:16,137 ♪ All of you make 1661 01:16:16,137 --> 01:16:19,448 ♪ Me sick 1662 01:16:22,310 --> 01:16:25,000 ♪ You're so 1663 01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:27,344 ♪ Into yer shtik 1664 01:16:27,344 --> 01:16:30,517 - The line is so much more 1665 01:16:30,517 --> 01:16:33,000 about the industry. 1666 01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:35,827 It's so much more about all those people 1667 01:16:35,827 --> 01:16:39,413 who take art and try to push it so hard 1668 01:16:39,413 --> 01:16:43,103 through the financial filter. 1669 01:16:43,103 --> 01:16:45,137 - The thing that kind of frustrated me the most 1670 01:16:45,137 --> 01:16:46,551 about that whole time period 1671 01:16:46,551 --> 01:16:50,034 was, like, we did this two-week tour with Nirvana 1672 01:16:50,034 --> 01:16:53,000 and just seeing the way that they had organized themselves. 1673 01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:55,586 A lot of the people that they had hired to 1674 01:16:57,448 --> 01:16:59,793 work for the band were really gross. 1675 01:16:59,793 --> 01:17:01,206 Didn't seem like they had 1676 01:17:01,206 --> 01:17:03,310 anyone in the band's best interests at heart, 1677 01:17:03,310 --> 01:17:04,965 they just wanted the band to keep going 1678 01:17:04,965 --> 01:17:06,413 so more money could be made, 1679 01:17:06,413 --> 01:17:09,103 and we had a couple of shows with Pearl Jam 1680 01:17:09,103 --> 01:17:10,827 booked about a month later, 1681 01:17:10,827 --> 01:17:12,724 and at the time, the perception was 1682 01:17:12,724 --> 01:17:17,137 Nirvana was the underground band that came up from Sub Pop 1683 01:17:17,137 --> 01:17:20,344 and Pearl Jam was the major label band or whatever, 1684 01:17:20,344 --> 01:17:21,620 and we were just like, 1685 01:17:21,620 --> 01:17:23,896 "God, can you imagine how bad it's gonna be 1686 01:17:23,896 --> 01:17:27,310 "in the Pearl Jam camp if it's this bad in Nirvana?" 1687 01:17:27,310 --> 01:17:29,413 We went out with Pearl Jam 1688 01:17:29,413 --> 01:17:32,137 and it was just the fucking exact opposite. 1689 01:17:32,137 --> 01:17:35,551 Every person was super cool, friendly, helpful. 1690 01:17:35,551 --> 01:17:38,413 There were people in the Nirvana camp 1691 01:17:38,413 --> 01:17:40,758 who were just, like, thumping their chests 1692 01:17:40,758 --> 01:17:42,896 at how proud they were to be working with Nirvana 1693 01:17:42,896 --> 01:17:44,413 and there was nothing like that 1694 01:17:44,413 --> 01:17:46,724 happening over in Pearl Jam world. 1695 01:17:46,724 --> 01:17:49,241 It was like, oh, you can be at this level 1696 01:17:49,241 --> 01:17:51,620 and run things in a smart way 1697 01:17:51,620 --> 01:17:54,827 and you don't have to hire a bunch of dicks. 1698 01:17:54,827 --> 01:17:57,310 - As soon as they were out playing that first show with us 1699 01:17:57,310 --> 01:17:59,896 and we were interacting, really, 1700 01:17:59,896 --> 01:18:03,172 for the first time in a few years, in a real way, 1701 01:18:03,172 --> 01:18:05,241 I remember thinking, "Wow, this is a really good thing." 1702 01:18:05,241 --> 01:18:07,620 And then when Kurt died, I think it was really important 1703 01:18:07,620 --> 01:18:09,931 that we were all together at that time. 1704 01:18:09,931 --> 01:18:11,793 I think it was a wake-up call for us, 1705 01:18:11,793 --> 01:18:13,827 to have Mark and Steve and those guys 1706 01:18:13,827 --> 01:18:16,517 there at that time, because it told us 1707 01:18:16,517 --> 01:18:19,896 that we could stop at any time and take a break. 1708 01:18:19,896 --> 01:18:24,310 [speaking in foreign language] 1709 01:18:32,551 --> 01:18:34,586 - Mr. Steve Turner! 1710 01:18:34,586 --> 01:18:36,965 [crowd cheering] 1711 01:18:36,965 --> 01:18:39,827 And Mr. Mark Arm! 1712 01:18:39,827 --> 01:18:43,206 [crowd cheering] 1713 01:18:43,206 --> 01:18:45,344 - Right now! 1714 01:18:45,344 --> 01:18:48,275 Right now, Sao Paulo! 1715 01:18:48,275 --> 01:18:49,758 [crowd cheering] 1716 01:18:49,758 --> 01:18:51,551 It's time to 1717 01:18:51,551 --> 01:18:55,931 kick out the jams, motherfuckers! 1718 01:18:55,931 --> 01:18:59,000 ["Kick Out the Jams" by Mudhoney] 1719 01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:00,896 ♪ Ah, ah, ah, ah 1720 01:19:00,896 --> 01:19:03,206 ♪ I gotta kick 'em out 1721 01:19:07,448 --> 01:19:09,862 ♪ Well, I feel pretty good 1722 01:19:09,862 --> 01:19:13,931 ♪ And I guess that I could get crazy now, baby ♪ 1723 01:19:14,620 --> 01:19:16,034 ♪ 'Cause we all got in tune 1724 01:19:16,034 --> 01:19:20,275 ♪ When the dressing room got hazy now, baby 1725 01:19:21,310 --> 01:19:22,965 ♪ I know how you like it, child 1726 01:19:22,965 --> 01:19:24,448 ♪ Hot, quick and tight 1727 01:19:24,448 --> 01:19:27,241 ♪ The girls can't stand it when you're doing it right 1728 01:19:27,241 --> 01:19:29,275 ♪ Let me up on the stand 1729 01:19:29,275 --> 01:19:31,931 ♪ And let me kick out the jams 1730 01:19:31,931 --> 01:19:35,620 ♪ Yeah, kick out the jams 1731 01:19:35,620 --> 01:19:38,241 ♪ I gotta kick 'em out 1732 01:19:56,620 --> 01:19:58,068 - It was very obvious it was gonna be 1733 01:19:58,068 --> 01:19:59,689 the last one for Warner Brothers. 1734 01:19:59,689 --> 01:20:02,482 Everybody at Reprise was gone, basically. 1735 01:20:02,482 --> 01:20:04,379 One of the new guys at Warner's 1736 01:20:04,379 --> 01:20:06,551 wanted to hear demos and didn't hear a hit, 1737 01:20:06,551 --> 01:20:07,758 and all that kind of shit, 1738 01:20:07,758 --> 01:20:09,172 which we'd never had to deal with before. 1739 01:20:09,172 --> 01:20:12,103 We'd always just delivered the finished product to them 1740 01:20:12,103 --> 01:20:14,034 and they did what they could with it. 1741 01:20:14,034 --> 01:20:16,344 - He wanted to drop Mudhoney right when he got there, 1742 01:20:16,344 --> 01:20:18,655 but he was gonna wait to hear the demos, 1743 01:20:18,655 --> 01:20:21,379 and he was actually impressed with what they had done. 1744 01:20:21,379 --> 01:20:23,931 I'm like, "Hey, whoop-de-doo for you, right?" 1745 01:20:23,931 --> 01:20:25,620 - He knew that we weren't gonna make him any more money. 1746 01:20:25,620 --> 01:20:28,034 And I don't think Reprise had had a radio hit 1747 01:20:28,034 --> 01:20:29,551 since Alanis Morissette, 1748 01:20:29,551 --> 01:20:31,724 which was three or fours before, 1749 01:20:31,724 --> 01:20:35,551 which in major label time is forever. 1750 01:20:35,551 --> 01:20:37,310 He was brought in because he had produced 1751 01:20:37,310 --> 01:20:40,448 the breakthrough Sugar Ray album. 1752 01:20:40,448 --> 01:20:42,034 They brought him in because they figured 1753 01:20:42,034 --> 01:20:46,379 since he produced a crappy breakthrough record 1754 01:20:46,379 --> 01:20:49,586 that he could get more made. [laughing] 1755 01:20:49,586 --> 01:20:52,172 - I remember there was one song, "Oblivion," 1756 01:20:52,172 --> 01:20:54,000 which, you know, that was the song 1757 01:20:55,482 --> 01:20:58,275 that the boss thought was the single. 1758 01:20:59,275 --> 01:21:02,896 ♪ Oblivion 1759 01:21:05,068 --> 01:21:08,689 He had all these little detailed mix ideas 1760 01:21:08,689 --> 01:21:10,172 that he had to throw in there. 1761 01:21:10,172 --> 01:21:11,344 - He'd had some other hits, 1762 01:21:11,344 --> 01:21:14,655 so these record people get cocky 1763 01:21:14,655 --> 01:21:16,758 and they think, "I can hear a hit now. 1764 01:21:16,758 --> 01:21:18,172 "I've got the golden ear." 1765 01:21:18,172 --> 01:21:19,379 - We probably went into the studio 1766 01:21:19,379 --> 01:21:21,758 to mix "Oblivion" five, six, seven, eight, 1767 01:21:21,758 --> 01:21:23,206 I don't know how many times. 1768 01:21:23,206 --> 01:21:26,206 - It shows exactly why the record industry is dying. 1769 01:21:26,206 --> 01:21:27,517 [laughing] 'Cause they just throw money 1770 01:21:27,517 --> 01:21:29,448 at bullshit for no reason. 1771 01:21:30,758 --> 01:21:33,517 ♪ Woke up this morning 1772 01:21:33,517 --> 01:21:36,482 ♪ I had a laugh 1773 01:21:36,482 --> 01:21:39,137 Each record you do for a record label, 1774 01:21:39,137 --> 01:21:40,758 the advance grows, 1775 01:21:40,758 --> 01:21:42,034 and we were selling less and less records. 1776 01:21:42,034 --> 01:21:43,689 - I think they got keen to us as well. 1777 01:21:43,689 --> 01:21:46,241 They knew that we would take our money 1778 01:21:46,241 --> 01:21:48,655 and record cheaply and pocket the rest. 1779 01:21:48,655 --> 01:21:49,965 - So if we didn't spend it recording, 1780 01:21:49,965 --> 01:21:51,206 we weren't gonna get it anyway, 1781 01:21:51,206 --> 01:21:53,482 why don't we actually hire a producer 1782 01:21:53,482 --> 01:21:56,482 and spend some money and see what that's like? 1783 01:21:56,482 --> 01:21:59,068 Obviously no one's gonna give us that money again. 1784 01:21:59,068 --> 01:22:00,724 - It was a great record on so many different levels, 1785 01:22:00,724 --> 01:22:02,965 produced by the legendary Jim Dickinson. 1786 01:22:02,965 --> 01:22:07,241 ["Poisoned Water" by Mudhoney] 1787 01:22:09,931 --> 01:22:14,068 ♪ Like stacks and stacks of rats on rafts 1788 01:22:14,068 --> 01:22:17,413 ♪ Clutchin' anything we can 1789 01:22:17,413 --> 01:22:20,586 ♪ Stacks and stacks of rats on rafts 1790 01:22:20,586 --> 01:22:24,103 ♪ Weight of the world crushin' our backs 1791 01:22:24,103 --> 01:22:27,275 ♪ Tooth for a tooth 1792 01:22:28,206 --> 01:22:30,896 ♪ Eye for an eye 1793 01:22:30,896 --> 01:22:34,448 - You know, released into major obscurity. 1794 01:22:34,448 --> 01:22:35,655 - It was one of the first records 1795 01:22:35,655 --> 01:22:37,793 that they put out at a higher price. 1796 01:22:37,793 --> 01:22:39,379 - Once the record came out, they just sort of 1797 01:22:41,551 --> 01:22:42,862 did nothing with it. 1798 01:22:42,862 --> 01:22:44,275 They wanted it to disappear. 1799 01:22:44,275 --> 01:22:45,379 - You know, there was that time 1800 01:22:45,379 --> 01:22:46,689 that we had to drop them, 1801 01:22:46,689 --> 01:22:49,620 and the conversation was almost like, "Who cares? 1802 01:22:49,620 --> 01:22:51,965 "They'll go on and do their thing." 1803 01:22:51,965 --> 01:22:55,172 Nobody was surprised, and the relationship ended 1804 01:22:55,172 --> 01:22:57,034 in a really good way, where it was like, 1805 01:22:57,034 --> 01:22:59,275 I think we all agreed that even if 1806 01:23:00,724 --> 01:23:02,068 Reprise wanted to keep them on, 1807 01:23:02,068 --> 01:23:03,551 it probably wasn't the right place for them to be. 1808 01:23:03,551 --> 01:23:05,206 The music industry had completely changed. 1809 01:23:07,793 --> 01:23:09,000 - It was fairly brutal. 1810 01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:10,896 The shows were getting really small. 1811 01:23:10,896 --> 01:23:12,517 It was definitely the lowest point 1812 01:23:12,517 --> 01:23:14,172 as far as playing live shows. 1813 01:23:14,172 --> 01:23:15,482 In the States, it was like, fuck, man, 1814 01:23:15,482 --> 01:23:18,896 150 people in some shitty Florida town. 1815 01:23:18,896 --> 01:23:20,689 - It must have been a pretty discouraging 1816 01:23:20,689 --> 01:23:22,517 situation for them to be in. 1817 01:23:22,517 --> 01:23:24,896 And, of course, subsequently, Matt Lukin left, 1818 01:23:24,896 --> 01:23:27,793 which was a factor in what was going on as well, I believe. 1819 01:23:29,620 --> 01:23:31,965 [crowd cheering] 1820 01:23:31,965 --> 01:23:34,758 [imitates machine gun] 1821 01:23:34,758 --> 01:23:38,000 - It seemed like a pretty good time to quit. 1822 01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:40,482 The touring wasn't going to make us any money anymore. 1823 01:23:40,482 --> 01:23:43,482 - I think he might have even stuck around as long as he did 1824 01:23:43,482 --> 01:23:44,896 because he thought he was gonna 1825 01:23:44,896 --> 01:23:46,827 let the rest of us down if he quit, 1826 01:23:46,827 --> 01:23:48,620 and that was a tough blow. 1827 01:23:48,620 --> 01:23:50,103 - The last three or four years of the band, 1828 01:23:50,103 --> 01:23:52,448 I was hoping that somebody else would quit 1829 01:23:52,448 --> 01:23:56,689 or somebody else would make a move so I didn't have to, 1830 01:23:56,689 --> 01:23:58,862 'cause I hate to be the one quitting. 1831 01:23:58,862 --> 01:24:00,655 I hate to let people down. 1832 01:24:00,655 --> 01:24:02,758 I was just kind of sick of music 1833 01:24:02,758 --> 01:24:07,034 and pop culture in general, altogether. 1834 01:24:07,034 --> 01:24:09,103 I just hated everything to do with it 1835 01:24:09,103 --> 01:24:11,724 and anybody who felt it was important. 1836 01:24:11,724 --> 01:24:14,896 I was working as a carpenter during my off time. 1837 01:24:14,896 --> 01:24:16,965 It was kind of like going back to the beginning, 1838 01:24:16,965 --> 01:24:19,034 back when I was like 18, 19 again. 1839 01:24:19,034 --> 01:24:20,517 I'd work during the week and go play 1840 01:24:20,517 --> 01:24:23,275 Melvins gigs on the weekend. 1841 01:24:23,275 --> 01:24:25,344 It was kind of like having to go back to that. 1842 01:24:25,344 --> 01:24:27,275 I didn't wanna do that. 1843 01:24:28,482 --> 01:24:31,000 - [Voiceover] There's some drinking and smoking to do! 1844 01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:33,206 [crowd cheering] 1845 01:24:35,724 --> 01:24:38,103 - We have always kind of had this idea 1846 01:24:38,103 --> 01:24:41,827 of Mudhoney being Mark, Steve, Matt, and Dan, 1847 01:24:41,827 --> 01:24:45,172 and if one of us was not in the picture 1848 01:24:45,172 --> 01:24:47,000 that we would not be a band. 1849 01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:48,103 I don't know if that's some kind of 1850 01:24:48,103 --> 01:24:51,172 idealistic Three Musketeers or whatever. 1851 01:24:51,172 --> 01:24:54,482 I guess there's four. [laughing] 1852 01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:58,482 So when Matt quit, my whole thing was, 1853 01:24:58,482 --> 01:25:00,448 "Well, the idea of getting another bass player 1854 01:25:00,448 --> 01:25:03,000 "is not something that I'm into at all." 1855 01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:05,000 - Dan didn't wanna do it without Matt. 1856 01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:07,620 They were kind of like the two partners to me and Mark. 1857 01:25:07,620 --> 01:25:09,689 They roomed together and all that kind of stuff. 1858 01:25:11,103 --> 01:25:12,862 ♪ I've been thinking 1859 01:25:12,862 --> 01:25:14,172 ♪ I could find some meaning 1860 01:25:14,172 --> 01:25:15,413 ♪ I could start believing 1861 01:25:15,413 --> 01:25:17,310 ♪ Instead of killing time 1862 01:25:17,310 --> 01:25:18,862 ♪ I've been thinking 1863 01:25:18,862 --> 01:25:20,413 ♪ Your love could give me meaning 1864 01:25:20,413 --> 01:25:21,793 ♪ I could start believing 1865 01:25:21,793 --> 01:25:23,862 ♪ Instead of killing time 1866 01:25:23,862 --> 01:25:27,172 ♪ I think I could love, if you could show me 1867 01:25:27,172 --> 01:25:29,448 ♪ What your lovin' is 1868 01:25:31,482 --> 01:25:33,655 - These guys wanted to start an Internet record label 1869 01:25:33,655 --> 01:25:35,517 and they hired to me to produce an album. 1870 01:25:35,517 --> 01:25:37,655 Mudhoney came up in the conversation 1871 01:25:37,655 --> 01:25:41,379 as being a band that just gets better as time goes on, 1872 01:25:41,379 --> 01:25:43,206 and so we got a hold of them 1873 01:25:43,206 --> 01:25:45,482 and they said they'd be interested in talking about it. 1874 01:25:45,482 --> 01:25:48,068 - It's probably been about a year, so we got together. 1875 01:25:48,068 --> 01:25:49,517 - [Voiceover] Started working on some things, 1876 01:25:49,517 --> 01:25:50,724 and it felt good. 1877 01:25:50,724 --> 01:25:52,034 There's a chemistry that we have. 1878 01:25:52,034 --> 01:25:53,931 - So I went up there and met the guys 1879 01:25:53,931 --> 01:25:56,551 and I made them an offer they couldn't refuse. 1880 01:25:56,551 --> 01:25:59,551 [rock music] 1881 01:25:59,551 --> 01:26:03,931 Money talks. [laughing] 1882 01:26:03,931 --> 01:26:05,931 ♪ Let me in 1883 01:26:06,724 --> 01:26:08,620 ♪ Let me in 1884 01:26:08,620 --> 01:26:11,655 ♪ It takes an inside job to make it easy when it's hard ♪ 1885 01:26:11,655 --> 01:26:13,103 - And that song ended up 1886 01:26:13,103 --> 01:26:16,724 kind of starting off our next record. 1887 01:26:16,724 --> 01:26:18,724 That's kind of how we got that ball rolling again. 1888 01:26:26,172 --> 01:26:28,000 - I am a registered nurse, 1889 01:26:28,000 --> 01:26:30,827 and I work at the main trauma center 1890 01:26:30,827 --> 01:26:33,206 at Harborview Hospital here in Seattle. 1891 01:26:33,206 --> 01:26:36,310 The elements of my job are working on 1892 01:26:36,310 --> 01:26:38,344 specific things in the emergency room, 1893 01:26:38,344 --> 01:26:40,827 what are called trauma codes, 1894 01:26:40,827 --> 01:26:44,689 where someone has a trauma injury of some sort, 1895 01:26:44,689 --> 01:26:46,931 gunshot, knife, motor vehicle, 1896 01:26:46,931 --> 01:26:48,310 fell off a cliff, whatever. 1897 01:26:48,310 --> 01:26:51,413 People have some preconceived and prejudiced ideas 1898 01:26:51,413 --> 01:26:54,206 about what being in a band is. 1899 01:26:54,206 --> 01:26:56,517 You're a philanderer or a drug addict 1900 01:26:56,517 --> 01:26:59,000 or a person with low responsibility. 1901 01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:00,586 But it's come out, obviously. 1902 01:27:00,586 --> 01:27:02,931 It's hard to conceal in this town that you're in Mudhoney, 1903 01:27:02,931 --> 01:27:05,896 'cause you've got pictures in the press and stuff like that. 1904 01:27:05,896 --> 01:27:09,103 When Mudhoney first started, 1905 01:27:09,103 --> 01:27:10,758 they came to Australia very early, 1906 01:27:10,758 --> 01:27:14,413 and my band went to America around the same time, '88, '89, 1907 01:27:14,413 --> 01:27:16,965 and we became friends. 1908 01:27:16,965 --> 01:27:21,068 As a teenager, I'd been obsessed with punk rock. 1909 01:27:21,068 --> 01:27:24,172 I'd sort of mucked around with some friends at high school, 1910 01:27:24,172 --> 01:27:27,551 just in the garage or in the back room or whatever, 1911 01:27:27,551 --> 01:27:29,896 and I actually started off wanting to be 1912 01:27:29,896 --> 01:27:31,517 the singer of the band, 1913 01:27:31,517 --> 01:27:34,172 but as it turned out we could not find a bass player, 1914 01:27:34,172 --> 01:27:36,724 and I couldn't play bass and sing at the same time, 1915 01:27:36,724 --> 01:27:38,000 so I became a bass player, 1916 01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:41,379 but I had a bass guitar and I was interested in. 1917 01:27:41,379 --> 01:27:44,000 - I had already been playing with Guy in Bloodloss, 1918 01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:47,758 and I was like, if Matt doesn't want to do this anymore, 1919 01:27:48,931 --> 01:27:51,862 Guy would be perfect for the band. 1920 01:27:51,862 --> 01:27:55,862 He's a good friend already and he's a great bass player. 1921 01:27:55,862 --> 01:27:57,896 He's got lots of really, really cool ideas. 1922 01:27:57,896 --> 01:28:00,310 - [Guy] It was a little strange, though, 1923 01:28:00,310 --> 01:28:02,275 because I've been a fan of the band, 1924 01:28:02,275 --> 01:28:05,655 and so I always considered the band to be 1925 01:28:05,655 --> 01:28:08,827 the four-piece that it originally was with Matt on bass. 1926 01:28:08,827 --> 01:28:12,241 Learning the songs and fitting in wasn't that difficult. 1927 01:28:12,241 --> 01:28:15,724 I started off just by going over to Steve's place in Seattle 1928 01:28:15,724 --> 01:28:17,482 and sitting out on his porch 1929 01:28:17,482 --> 01:28:20,586 and just doing my songs with an acoustic guitar. 1930 01:28:20,586 --> 01:28:23,103 - The first practice we had with Guy, 1931 01:28:23,103 --> 01:28:24,620 at this point I was still kind of, 1932 01:28:26,724 --> 01:28:29,137 "OK, getting a new bass player." 1933 01:28:29,137 --> 01:28:31,241 He comes in and starts playing, 1934 01:28:31,241 --> 01:28:34,517 and then and there I knew this was gonna be cool. 1935 01:28:34,517 --> 01:28:36,103 He was a great bass player. 1936 01:28:36,103 --> 01:28:37,517 - [Steve] That was really great to get 1937 01:28:37,517 --> 01:28:39,068 a fourth person in the room 1938 01:28:39,068 --> 01:28:42,000 that was fully engaged again, 1939 01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:43,724 like Matt had been at the beginning. 1940 01:28:43,724 --> 01:28:47,172 - Definitely Guy brought some new energy to the band. 1941 01:28:50,827 --> 01:28:53,103 Spent a couple months teaching him our catalog 1942 01:28:53,103 --> 01:28:57,103 and finally started to move forward and write new songs. 1943 01:28:57,103 --> 01:28:58,724 - He's got a different style, 1944 01:28:58,724 --> 01:29:01,068 but he's a very, very good player. 1945 01:29:01,068 --> 01:29:04,206 Excellent choice to play bass in Mudhoney. 1946 01:29:04,206 --> 01:29:05,965 I was actually thrilled to pieces 1947 01:29:05,965 --> 01:29:08,310 when I found out that he was gonna join the band. 1948 01:29:08,310 --> 01:29:09,724 - And they're still great friends with Matt too, 1949 01:29:09,724 --> 01:29:11,137 so it works out. 1950 01:29:11,137 --> 01:29:13,034 I mean, Matt comes to the occasional Mudhoney show 1951 01:29:13,034 --> 01:29:15,310 and sits out back and drinks all their beer, 1952 01:29:15,310 --> 01:29:16,827 so it still works out, you know? 1953 01:29:16,827 --> 01:29:18,517 He does the same thing he was doing before, 1954 01:29:18,517 --> 01:29:20,517 he just doesn't get on stage, basically, you know? 1955 01:29:20,517 --> 01:29:22,620 [laughing] 1956 01:29:22,620 --> 01:29:27,103 [electronic music] 1957 01:29:28,206 --> 01:29:29,655 - Mudhoney would never have left Sub Pop 1958 01:29:29,655 --> 01:29:31,068 if it wasn't for the fact that Sub Pop 1959 01:29:31,068 --> 01:29:32,896 was going through huge, huge growing pains 1960 01:29:32,896 --> 01:29:34,344 during the time that Mudhoney was having 1961 01:29:34,344 --> 01:29:37,482 the most success in the early days. 1962 01:29:37,482 --> 01:29:39,137 I think they would never have left, 1963 01:29:39,137 --> 01:29:40,965 so it makes sense. 1964 01:29:40,965 --> 01:29:43,655 And as a music fan, you always love 1965 01:29:43,655 --> 01:29:44,724 seeing that kind of stuff. 1966 01:29:44,724 --> 01:29:45,965 You know, if a record collector, 1967 01:29:45,965 --> 01:29:47,206 you're looking at the back of the record, 1968 01:29:47,206 --> 01:29:50,413 "Oh, man! In that era, they went back! 1969 01:29:50,413 --> 01:29:52,068 "Wow, I wanna hear that record! 1970 01:29:52,068 --> 01:29:53,206 "I don't wanna hear that major label crap! 1971 01:29:53,206 --> 01:29:54,862 "I wanna hear that one!" 1972 01:29:54,862 --> 01:29:57,896 - Seemed like I ran into Jonathan at some show. 1973 01:29:57,896 --> 01:30:00,000 I walked by him, I'm like, "Hey, Jonathan, how you doing?" 1974 01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:01,448 And he's like, "So when we gonna get 1975 01:30:01,448 --> 01:30:04,137 "the next Mudhoney record?" 1976 01:30:04,137 --> 01:30:06,206 I was kind of taken aback. 1977 01:30:06,206 --> 01:30:08,827 I'm like, "You wanna put out another Mudhoney record?" 1978 01:30:08,827 --> 01:30:10,793 He's like, "Of course!" 1979 01:30:10,793 --> 01:30:15,413 And to me, that was just kind of, "Well, that's cool." 1980 01:30:15,413 --> 01:30:18,448 - There are few joys greater 1981 01:30:18,448 --> 01:30:21,896 than the joy of knowing that Mudhoney was going to 1982 01:30:21,896 --> 01:30:24,103 come back to Sub Pop when the time came, 1983 01:30:24,103 --> 01:30:27,344 and it was something that we all felt really excited about, 1984 01:30:27,344 --> 01:30:30,379 and it was something that made us feel super proud, 1985 01:30:30,379 --> 01:30:32,896 was kind of for them just to come home, 1986 01:30:32,896 --> 01:30:36,310 because that's still the way we saw it. 1987 01:30:36,310 --> 01:30:40,517 It didn't feel even like the good old days. 1988 01:30:40,517 --> 01:30:42,965 It felt better than that. 1989 01:30:42,965 --> 01:30:44,620 It really felt like a homecoming. 1990 01:30:44,620 --> 01:30:46,068 - [Voiceover] Sub Pop was no longer 1991 01:30:46,068 --> 01:30:48,103 the flying by the seat of its pants, 1992 01:30:48,103 --> 01:30:50,827 making it up as they were going along. 1993 01:30:50,827 --> 01:30:52,793 We were both learning at the same time. 1994 01:30:52,793 --> 01:30:54,413 They were learning how to be a record label, 1995 01:30:54,413 --> 01:30:56,206 and we were learning how to be a band. 1996 01:30:56,206 --> 01:30:57,620 They learned from their mistakes, 1997 01:30:57,620 --> 01:31:01,448 and I can't imagine being on a better label. 1998 01:31:02,586 --> 01:31:05,275 - People who come to work here, you know, 1999 01:31:05,275 --> 01:31:07,758 the early days are mythical. 2000 01:31:07,758 --> 01:31:11,827 So now, Mark is in the office all the time, 2001 01:31:11,827 --> 01:31:14,896 and there's a certain earthbound quality 2002 01:31:14,896 --> 01:31:18,551 which I think, frankly, suits Mark better. 2003 01:31:18,551 --> 01:31:22,275 I don't think he necessarily wants to be a rock god, 2004 01:31:22,275 --> 01:31:25,965 but there was this real feeling, 2005 01:31:25,965 --> 01:31:29,793 the prodigal son, this whole idea of 2006 01:31:29,793 --> 01:31:33,620 the band that built Sub Pop is coming back. 2007 01:31:33,620 --> 01:31:37,655 [rock music] 2008 01:31:44,586 --> 01:31:47,862 [rock scream, echoing] 2009 01:31:58,517 --> 01:32:02,068 - The whole end of the 90s kind of energized us. 2010 01:32:02,068 --> 01:32:04,620 After we weren't getting paid for any of it, 2011 01:32:04,620 --> 01:32:06,482 we were playing a lot more music. 2012 01:32:06,482 --> 01:32:08,448 Collectively and individually, we were doing 2013 01:32:08,448 --> 01:32:10,482 a crapload more music than we'd done in years. 2014 01:32:10,482 --> 01:32:12,034 [rock music] 2015 01:32:12,034 --> 01:32:14,482 - [Voiceover] Mudhoney's style is not mainstream. 2016 01:32:14,482 --> 01:32:16,724 They never wanted it to be mainstream, 2017 01:32:16,724 --> 01:32:19,310 and I'm very glad they never made the compromises 2018 01:32:19,310 --> 01:32:21,482 some of the other bands tried to make. 2019 01:32:21,482 --> 01:32:23,448 - It's a big "Fuck you guys!" 2020 01:32:23,448 --> 01:32:26,965 [rock music] 2021 01:32:26,965 --> 01:32:28,137 - [Voiceover] In a world where 2022 01:32:28,137 --> 01:32:29,551 The White Stripes and The Dirtbombs 2023 01:32:29,551 --> 01:32:30,965 are getting national attention, 2024 01:32:30,965 --> 01:32:32,827 Mudhoney made a lot more sense. 2025 01:32:32,827 --> 01:32:36,448 [crowd chattering] 2026 01:32:41,551 --> 01:32:44,275 - And for the reason that Mudhoney became popular again 2027 01:32:44,275 --> 01:32:47,275 was because they were almost a direct link 2028 01:32:47,275 --> 01:32:48,965 to that time and to that place, 2029 01:32:48,965 --> 01:32:52,379 and to Nirvana, for kids who'd never seen Nirvana. 2030 01:32:52,379 --> 01:32:54,034 For them, this was like a living, tangible link 2031 01:32:54,034 --> 01:32:55,931 to that whole scene. 2032 01:32:55,931 --> 01:32:59,206 [rock music] 2033 01:33:06,724 --> 01:33:08,448 - [Voiceover] As great as those early records are, 2034 01:33:08,448 --> 01:33:10,103 they're better now. 2035 01:33:10,103 --> 01:33:13,965 [rock music] 2036 01:33:13,965 --> 01:33:17,448 - We recorded that and "Under a Billion Suns" 2037 01:33:17,448 --> 01:33:19,448 kind of in similar manners, 2038 01:33:19,448 --> 01:33:21,896 where we would just go for a long weekend 2039 01:33:21,896 --> 01:33:24,551 with one engineer and a studio 2040 01:33:26,586 --> 01:33:28,689 and put down three or four songs 2041 01:33:28,689 --> 01:33:32,103 and then mix those and then do the same thing 2042 01:33:32,103 --> 01:33:33,344 with someone else when we had 2043 01:33:33,344 --> 01:33:34,827 three or four more songs written. 2044 01:33:34,827 --> 01:33:38,413 To me, both those two records seem kind of of a pair. 2045 01:33:38,413 --> 01:33:43,068 ♪ It's our patriotic duty 2046 01:33:43,068 --> 01:33:47,965 ♪ To make sweet love tonight 2047 01:33:50,068 --> 01:33:52,241 ♪ Come on, little girl 2048 01:33:52,241 --> 01:33:55,689 ♪ I've become a dirty old man 2049 01:33:55,689 --> 01:33:59,724 ♪ With a hard on for war 2050 01:34:33,620 --> 01:34:35,551 - Oh, yeah, sure. 2051 01:34:35,551 --> 01:34:39,793 We as Mudhoney would like to show our appreciation 2052 01:34:39,793 --> 01:34:44,034 for the good people of Japan. 2053 01:34:44,034 --> 01:34:45,482 - Who appreciate us. 2054 01:34:45,482 --> 01:34:46,758 - [Steve] Who appreciate us. 2055 01:34:46,758 --> 01:34:49,206 - And the rest of you who don't appreciate us? 2056 01:34:52,172 --> 01:34:54,068 [laughing] 2057 01:34:56,724 --> 01:34:58,103 - I really like the record a lot. 2058 01:34:58,103 --> 01:35:00,275 The songs are more stripped down and simple 2059 01:35:00,275 --> 01:35:03,000 and easy to understand, right off the bat. 2060 01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:04,827 I never like all of our songs, 2061 01:35:04,827 --> 01:35:07,000 and I never like all of our recordings. 2062 01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:08,448 This one came closer. 2063 01:35:08,448 --> 01:35:10,482 - We did it all in one weekend. 2064 01:35:10,482 --> 01:35:14,275 We'd done most of the tracking by Friday evening, 2065 01:35:14,275 --> 01:35:15,689 and then I started doing the vocals 2066 01:35:15,689 --> 01:35:16,931 and finished most of the vocals, 2067 01:35:16,931 --> 01:35:18,482 I think, by Saturday evening. 2068 01:35:18,482 --> 01:35:19,758 Basically, I'm now at, 2069 01:35:19,758 --> 01:35:21,620 it was the first completed take. 2070 01:35:21,620 --> 01:35:23,379 I remember coming to the end of the song 2071 01:35:23,379 --> 01:35:25,689 and I had to kind of throw up my hands 2072 01:35:25,689 --> 01:35:28,103 so Dan knew that this was like the end, 2073 01:35:28,103 --> 01:35:29,551 and that was the take. 2074 01:35:29,551 --> 01:35:33,482 It was like, wow, it's not gonna get any better than that. 2075 01:35:35,448 --> 01:35:40,448 ♪ If this is what it means to be saved ♪ 2076 01:35:41,137 --> 01:35:44,379 - [Voiceover] They've been able to withstand a lot 2077 01:35:44,379 --> 01:35:48,379 because they not just stuck together, 2078 01:35:48,379 --> 01:35:51,034 but they never lost sight of 2079 01:35:51,034 --> 01:35:53,689 who they were as friends. 2080 01:35:53,689 --> 01:35:56,344 They always say, "Don't go into business with your friends." 2081 01:35:56,344 --> 01:35:59,620 Well, sometimes your friends are all you got. 2082 01:36:00,620 --> 01:36:02,137 - They're all total music nerds. 2083 01:36:02,137 --> 01:36:03,827 You could go out, sit down to dinner, 2084 01:36:03,827 --> 01:36:06,068 and inevitably it turns into, 2085 01:36:06,068 --> 01:36:08,931 "No, that band was not punk rock, they were post punk rock!" 2086 01:36:10,172 --> 01:36:12,344 - They've always played by their own rules, 2087 01:36:12,344 --> 01:36:15,620 and they have a very high level of integrity, 2088 01:36:15,620 --> 01:36:20,275 and they really understand what it takes to rock. 2089 01:36:21,689 --> 01:36:23,482 - Nowadays, the tours are short, 2090 01:36:23,482 --> 01:36:26,862 around work schedules, around kids, 2091 01:36:26,862 --> 01:36:29,931 around whatever, around various different things, 2092 01:36:29,931 --> 01:36:32,379 so typically a block of time is picked 2093 01:36:32,379 --> 01:36:33,586 and then it's just filled. 2094 01:36:33,586 --> 01:36:34,827 That's what it comes down to. 2095 01:36:34,827 --> 01:36:36,724 - It adds a bit of a sort of vacation vibe 2096 01:36:36,724 --> 01:36:40,793 to things for us, because we don't go out all the time, 2097 01:36:40,793 --> 01:36:43,586 and when we do go out once or twice a year, 2098 01:36:43,586 --> 01:36:45,482 it's kind of special for us. 2099 01:36:45,482 --> 01:36:47,206 We go places we wanna go. 2100 01:36:47,206 --> 01:36:48,448 We get to hang out. 2101 01:36:48,448 --> 01:36:50,137 - I'm grateful that we get to tour at all. 2102 01:36:51,379 --> 01:36:53,103 I'm grateful that there are people out there 2103 01:36:53,103 --> 01:36:55,655 who give a shit, who wanna see us, 2104 01:36:55,655 --> 01:36:58,482 and who will bring us over to Japan 2105 01:36:58,482 --> 01:36:59,724 or bring us down to Brazil 2106 01:36:59,724 --> 01:37:03,551 or do a show with us someplace in Europe. 2107 01:37:03,551 --> 01:37:05,482 Unfortunately, we can't tour the way 2108 01:37:05,482 --> 01:37:07,000 we used to be able to tour, 2109 01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:10,448 'cause everyone works or has commitments with their family, 2110 01:37:10,448 --> 01:37:13,862 so when we do tour, we tend to pack a lot of stuff 2111 01:37:13,862 --> 01:37:16,241 into a short period of time, 2112 01:37:16,241 --> 01:37:19,482 which may not be the smartest way 2113 01:37:19,482 --> 01:37:20,758 to go about doing things, 2114 01:37:20,758 --> 01:37:22,413 but it's the only way we can. 2115 01:37:25,482 --> 01:37:29,310 - It's fun for us. It's low-key. 2116 01:37:29,310 --> 01:37:31,379 We're not trying to sell records, necessarily. 2117 01:37:31,379 --> 01:37:33,310 There's no pressure for us to get out there 2118 01:37:33,310 --> 01:37:36,275 and work the record. 2119 01:37:36,275 --> 01:37:38,379 It's a cool space right now. 2120 01:37:40,275 --> 01:37:43,206 - I am glad that we are not in a position 2121 01:37:43,206 --> 01:37:45,448 where music is our only thing 2122 01:37:45,448 --> 01:37:49,965 and that we have to worry about catering to a certain crowd. 2123 01:37:49,965 --> 01:37:52,724 I think we're really lucky that we get to do 2124 01:37:52,724 --> 01:37:55,551 whatever the fuck we want, despite the crowds. 2125 01:37:55,551 --> 01:37:58,413 There's a lot of people think of music 2126 01:37:58,413 --> 01:38:00,379 as a way to get something else. 2127 01:38:00,379 --> 01:38:02,000 To me, and I think the rest of the band, 2128 01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:05,482 music is an end in and of itself. 2129 01:38:05,482 --> 01:38:10,103 It's not like a way to get fame and fortune 2130 01:38:10,103 --> 01:38:13,000 and pussy and drugs or whatever. 2131 01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:16,896 Thinking about music like that just kind of creeps me out. 2132 01:38:16,896 --> 01:38:21,448 And I think that might be the result of 2133 01:38:21,448 --> 01:38:23,517 kind of the music that we came up through, 2134 01:38:23,517 --> 01:38:26,000 which if you were a kid playing hardcore 2135 01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:29,482 in like 1981 and '82, 2136 01:38:29,482 --> 01:38:31,896 the idea that you were gonna make money 2137 01:38:31,896 --> 01:38:36,137 or have fame or get laid or, 2138 01:38:36,137 --> 01:38:38,000 well, maybe you might get drugs, 2139 01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:39,206 you might get laid, 2140 01:38:39,206 --> 01:38:43,620 but it wasn't like anybody was clamoring 2141 01:38:43,620 --> 01:38:44,896 to hear this kind of music except for 2142 01:38:44,896 --> 01:38:48,103 a handful of other kids your own age. 2143 01:38:48,103 --> 01:38:50,000 There wasn't any idea that there was like 2144 01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:53,655 a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. 2145 01:38:56,517 --> 01:38:58,551 We were doing this just to amuse ourselves, 2146 01:38:58,551 --> 01:39:01,586 and I still am. 2147 01:39:04,482 --> 01:39:08,344 [crowd cheering] 2148 01:39:18,310 --> 01:39:22,517 [rock music] 2149 01:39:22,517 --> 01:39:25,517 - May this be the official document. 2150 01:39:25,517 --> 01:39:28,103 As long as those guys wanna make records, 2151 01:39:28,103 --> 01:39:30,517 I'm gonna put 'em out. 2152 01:39:30,517 --> 01:39:31,931 Hopefully they're not gonna wanna make 2153 01:39:31,931 --> 01:39:34,034 too many of them too quickly, 2154 01:39:34,034 --> 01:39:36,137 or else we'll all end up 2155 01:39:36,137 --> 01:39:39,517 back in the straits that we were in 20 years ago. 2156 01:39:39,517 --> 01:39:43,379 [rock music] 2157 01:40:07,275 --> 01:40:11,275 [crowd cheering] 2158 01:40:13,068 --> 01:40:16,655 [rock music] 2159 01:40:21,724 --> 01:40:23,620 - I mean, I just think a lot of it's luck 2160 01:40:25,586 --> 01:40:29,310 and, you know, just sheer talent. 2161 01:40:29,310 --> 01:40:33,758 Blistering licks and, you know, hot, hot, hot drum fills. 2162 01:40:33,758 --> 01:40:35,310 [laughing] 2163 01:40:35,310 --> 01:40:37,103 Well, really, that's what it is. 2164 01:40:37,103 --> 01:40:39,896 We're just a fucking great band, really. 2165 01:40:39,896 --> 01:40:42,344 It's a proven fact, isn't it? 2166 01:40:42,344 --> 01:40:45,724 - It got universal praise and universal play. 2167 01:40:45,724 --> 01:40:48,413 The only person, quite ironically, 2168 01:40:48,413 --> 01:40:52,310 who gave it a bad review, is Grant Alden. 2169 01:40:52,310 --> 01:40:55,068 I'm calling you out right here, motherfucker. 2170 01:40:55,068 --> 01:40:57,551 - [laughing] White shoes! 2171 01:40:57,551 --> 01:40:59,310 Wearing the big old white shoes. 2172 01:40:59,310 --> 01:41:01,172 There's a lot of pictures and videos of me 2173 01:41:01,172 --> 01:41:03,034 wearing big old white shoes, and I'm like, 2174 01:41:03,034 --> 01:41:04,586 "Damn, why didn't I have a little more 2175 01:41:04,586 --> 01:41:07,827 "fashion sense back then?" 2176 01:41:07,827 --> 01:41:09,931 - It was in the hotel lobby where we were staying, 2177 01:41:09,931 --> 01:41:11,413 and Lukin was walking by, and I said, 2178 01:41:11,413 --> 01:41:13,448 "Hey, Matt, say hi to my girlfriend." 2179 01:41:13,448 --> 01:41:15,206 I handed him the phone. 2180 01:41:15,206 --> 01:41:17,862 He'd never met my girlfriend, didn't know who she was, 2181 01:41:17,862 --> 01:41:19,620 and I had just kind of met the band. 2182 01:41:19,620 --> 01:41:21,793 This was the first time we toured with them. 2183 01:41:21,793 --> 01:41:24,379 "Hey, Matt, say hi to my girlfriend." 2184 01:41:24,379 --> 01:41:25,965 And so he grabbed the phone and says, 2185 01:41:25,965 --> 01:41:28,241 "How big's your pussy?" [laughing] 2186 01:41:28,931 --> 01:41:31,310 First words out of his mouth! 2187 01:41:31,310 --> 01:41:35,586 [rock music] 2188 01:41:44,172 --> 01:41:46,413 ♪ I'm now 2189 01:41:47,517 --> 01:41:49,827 ♪ Yeah, I'm now 161515

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