All language subtitles for The Meaning of Hitler 2_English

This film
begins with a book.

The kind you find displayed
next to the register,

an impulse buy for
uncertain times.

The dystopian book of the week,

suggested reading for
the coming catastrophe.

The cover catering to our
deepest fears and anxieties.

The title loudly
promising answers

to urgent questions
during daily commutes.

The Meaning Of
Hitler by Sebastian Haffner.

"Chaos.

Hitler never had nor
sought an occupation;

on the contrary,
he positively avoided one.

His shyness of occupation
is as striking a trait

as his shyness
of marriage or intimacy.

He did not wish to be the
first servant of the state

And he perceived correctly
that absolute rule
was not possible

in an intact state organism

but only amidst
controlled chaos.

That was why from the outset,

he replaced the states
with chaos."

You undermine the
institutions of the state

because that magnifies
your own position.

Everything's dependent on you.

You might as well get onto
his similarities with Trump.

We begin with
the novelist Martin Amis.

He's been thinking about
Hitler a lot lately.

The similarities are,
in fact, an odd lot

between Trump and Hitler.

Fanatical cleanliness
is one trait

and, of course,
lying is another.

Here was a head of state
who didn't mind lying.

There is no downside to lying.

It's terrific at first

because it looks for a moment
as if everything is possible.

My understanding is
you wanna clear the air

'cause you think you're
being unfavorably compared

to Donald Trump.

Don't get me wrong, Conan.
I agree with a lot
he says, a lot.

Like 90% of what he says,
I'm like, "This guy gets it."

-Okay.

Perhaps the most
extraordinary thing about Hitler

is how he resists understanding.

And there's not one historian,
apart from Haffner,

who claims to understand it.

Born in Berlin in 1907,

Sebastian Haffner witnessed
Hitler come to power.

For Haffner, Hitler was
the original radical loser,

a man whose whole identity

was staked on
a fanatical project,

born from the radicalization

of his and his followers'
perceived victimhood.

In 1940, Haffner observed

that for the world to
be done with Hitler,

it had to kill
not just the man,
but the legend as well.

As the newspaper
Der Spiegel put it,

-"Hitler is here again."
-Was he a martyr to
German nationalism?

Was he something of
a German Jesse James?

Fast forward four decades,

wary of cultural amnesia,

Haffner aimed to
kill the legend.

-" Hitler lived
from April 20th, 1889

until April 30th, 1945.

For 30 years, he was
an obscure failure.

Then almost overnight,
a local celebrity

and eventually the man
around whom

the whole of world policy
revolved.

How does that go together?"

Uh, I don't really know.

I don't think anyone knows.

Fortunately,
you cannot put Hitler

on a psychologist's couch.

Maybe I could start by the fact
that in the course of history,

Hitler has been assigned
almost any psychiatric
diagnosis that's available.

Why can't he make
appointments like any normal
person?

Because, my dear Anna,

our patient is not
exactly a normal person.

Oedipus complex, megalomania.

Bipolar disorder
or schizophrenic
and also as hysterical.

So, I think any
psychiatric diagnosis
has been assigned to him.

Our understanding
of Hitler is central

to our self-understanding.

It's a reckoning
you have to make

if you're a serious person.

And if anyone can advance

the understanding of Hitler
by so much as a millimeter,

then that is well
worth undertaking.

Well, good luck.

I mean...
He has no-- not a chance

because I think
there is such a num--
such a vast

conjunction of reasons,
of factors.

Historians are
endlessly arguing

about the past
and the meaning of the past.

There isn't any consensus
on many, many issues.

It was at this point

that we began to
question the wisdom

of making a film called
The Meaning of Hitler,

because you can't begin
to understand the meaning
of Hitler

without first understanding
the meaning of history itself.

He's spent the better
part of his life

studying Hitler
and the Holocaust.

He was born Pavel in Prague,

baptized Paul in France,

renamed Shaul in Palestine,

and is now simply
Saul in California.

Understanding Hitler
is, in my opinion,
not the problem.

We are drawn towards Nazis

and towards the
personality of Hitler

and that, I think,
is the main problem.

-Heil, do you know me?
-...I'm fighting for Germany!

My whole life
has been one long
struggle for Germany!

Adolf Hitler.

Hollywood
has always loved Hitler,

but the most famous Hitler film

is the one he commissioned
about himself.

Triumph of the Will,

Leni Riefenstahl's
propaganda film

about the 1934
Nuremberg Rally

is arguably the most recycled

and imitated film in history.

The Nuremberg Rally was
a kind of work of art.

It was kind of performance art.

It's very aesthetic.

The lighting, the fire-lit
faces of those young men.

When Hitler's plane
is coming in,
the shadow of his little plane

is being cast on the spires
and rooftops of Nuremberg.

It's pure kitsch.
But if you knew nothing,

I think you really might
think, "How beautiful."

It's like the
Rockettes or something.
It's like, you know, Radio City.

It's so-- I mean,
if it's divorced from its
origins and its purpose,

it's this kind of
gorgeous pageantry,

but the minute
you know anything,
it makes your flesh creep.

The Nazis understood
that martyrdom and death

were much more potent
than "long live life"

because it was
much closer to religious--
to a religious feeling

and a sense of eternity,
in a way.

The Nazis had a feeling
that they were acting

in some huge historical play

for the future, for history,

and then people
will remember this

for the next centuries
and centuries.

That's the Wagnerian
sense of him.

He was speaking of a performance

but a performance for
eternity in a way, you see?

-Adolf Hitler.

If you switch on German TV,

you have a 95% chance to
get a Hitler documentary.

-Hitler's Friends.
-Hitler in Private.

Hitler's Household.

The Ten Things You
Didn't Know About Hitler,

and it's always the ten things
you already know about Hitler.

Call it
the Hitler Channel.

We've seen Hitler's dogs,
his women, his cars,

his food, his generals,
his secretaries,
his secret weapons

and his drug habits,
never before seen footage

in glorious color.

Fascinating fascism.

Has history lost all meaning?

Which begs the question,

is it possible to
make a film like this

without contributing
to the expansion

of the Nazi cinematic universe?

I mean, the images you can
show are very well known.

So, it would be
redundant in many ways

and it's all propaganda.

After the war,

all Nazi monuments
were destroyed,

but the images live on,

each and every frame
a tribute to Nazism.

This is the spell of
fascination we were warned
about,

where propaganda is
repackaged as reality,

sensation is
confused with meaning,

and the Nazi past
is normalized.

-Hitler did nothing wrong.
-Hitler did nothing wrong.

Hitler actually wasn't that bad.

Hitler was right.

What we are saying
is that this image

of National Socialism
and of Hitler,

uh, ultimately
has a greater impact

on the minds and the emotions
of younger generations today

than...

Is that what you were saying?

Momentarily
rid of the impulse

to make yet another
archival film,

we wondered if there
was a better approach.

Perhaps we could come
closer to understanding

the meaning of Hitler

if we started at the source.

Hitler's ancestral village

and the source of
much speculation.

Was Hitler abused as a child?

A sexual deviant?

Or was there some dark
secret in his family tree?

To control the many
rumors about his past,

Hitler simply erased it

But the question remains.

What made Hitler
Hitler?

Part of the spell
of great evil doers

is that they do have this
capacity to astonish.

And you can't believe
anyone's going to behave

as demonically
as that

and that in itself
confers a kind of aura.

"Hitler's life
lacked everything

that normally lends
weight, warmth, and dignity

to a human life.

Education, occupation,

love and friendship,
marriage, parenthood.

There were a few women,

but he treated them as
unimportant

and did not make them happy."

He liked his dog,
but tested a cyanide pill on it.

He got married 24 hours
before he and his wife went
through with a suicide pact.

I mean, it's almost like
a travesty

of what human relationships are.

"Hitler had no friends.

He enjoyed sitting for hours
on end with subordinate staff,

drivers, bodyguards,
secretaries,

but he alone did
all the talking.

He refused to think
beyond his own lifespan.

Everything had to
happen through himself.

A continuous
readiness for suicide

accompanied Hitler throughout
his political career.

And at its end, almost
as a matter of course,

stood a real suicide."

Yeah, we are standing here
in the middle of Berlin.

That's the Holocaust
Shoah Memorial over there

and here's the Mall of Berlin.

And yeah, this is
just a parking lot

with very unspectacular
prebuilt houses

and, well, somewhere
down below the ground is the...

My name is Enno Lenze

and I run the
Berlin Story Bunker

and the documentation
Hitler How Could It Happen?

I'm doing a lot of tours
with school classes here

and if you were born
like in the year 2000,

then it was 55 years ago.

So, it's like dinosaurs for you

and you would say, "What
do I have to do with it?"

Because you have never
heard of any war.

Often we really have to
explain what a war is

and what a bunker is
because they think a bunker

is a place which rich
people buy to set up lofts.

But there are many
questions like this like,

"Were you forced to be a Nazi?"

Or, especially, from
the US, people ask us,

"Why were the Nazis
able to invade Germany?"

So, yeah, we're already
beyond that point

that people lost the
meaning of Hitler

and it's really often
several times a day

that people ask us about,
"Are you sure that he's dead?"

If he's still alive,
he doesn't have jaws
and teeth, so...

I'm Mark Benecke
and I'm a forensic biologist.

and on the sofa Hitler
and his wife, Eva Hitler,

were just sitting

and then they killed themselves

by taking a cyanide capsule
and shooting themselves.

Stalin first said that Hitler
poisoned himself, his words,
"like a wife."

Some people think that females
have a tendency to use poison

to kill themselves.

Instead of soldiers,
especially leading soldiers,

officers who are supposed
to kill themselves

manly with a bullet.

Many people think that
once you take cyanide,

it's like in a movie.

Your eyes start to roll,
which they don't,

or you gasp or you move.

None of this happens.
You just suffocate

because the oxygen cannot
bind to your blood anymore
and then you die.

So, during that time,

you can still shoot,

write a letter or
do whatever you want

for half a minute or a minute.

Now, darling.

Afterwards, Hitler
was taken outside

and wrapped in a blanket

and then they burned the body

because Hitler was very afraid

that his body would be
presented like a loser.

So, he said, "Okay,
just destroy my body."
It's very child-like.

You know, like,
"Okay, I don't want to be shown.

"So, burn me."

But that it was just him.

There was a lot of
childishness in Hitler.

Suicidal ideation,
as they call it, was always
with him.

He just--
It's the answer to everything.

The tap doesn't work.

I know what I'll do.

I'll blow my brains out.

Did you ever notice
how the door always closes

or the camera pans away
right before Hitler
pulls the trigger?

-Why does Hollywood
grant Hitler

the kind of honorable death

that is never given
to his victims?

We see them suffer
every atrocity and
humiliation on screen,

but Hitler is always allowed
to die on his own terms.

And so, his legend lives on.

Well, we are here in Braunau.

You can hear the bell.

It's number six among
Austrian bell towers.

Braunau is a small town,
about 17,000 inhabitants.

It's close to the
border to Germany.

The house behind me

is the place where
Adolf Hitler was born

on the 20th of April in 1889.

The family lived there for
only a short period of time.

It's sure that he was
born in this building

because there are other
opinions he was born

in another part of this complex,

which was a stable.

You know? A stable birth place?

So...

But it's not true. Um...

-That-- it's--
-That would be
very convenient, though.

Pardon?

Yeah, yes.

You have the connection
to another.

Yeah, it's-- was...
there's a book, uh...

which had the title
Braunau, Bethlehem
of the Third Reich.

Mm-hmm.
It was an ordinary house
and it was an ordinary family

and he started his life there,

but he did not start his
career as a political criminal,

but it's connected.

You can't separate.

You can't cut his life
from his political career.

This stone was brought here

from the concentration
camp of Mauthausen.

This inscription is from the--
it's the political ideology.

It's the wording of the 1990s.

Maybe now we should have another

because the name Hitler
is not mentioned.

The authorities are
not hiding the fact.

But, uh,
in my opinion, they are not
dealing in the proper way.

We have to deal
with the history,

but it's not fixed on
there on some bricks.

It's not only the building.

The building,
it's not as beautiful.

It's not a...

Well, it's a building,
but it's all the connection

in the brains of the
people who are coming here.

That's what we can influence.

Two doors
down from the Hitler house

is an Arab grocery store.

In 2015, Braunau was a hotspot

because we had thousands
and thousands of people

from Africa, from Syria,
who wanted to go to Germany.

Well, at this special time,

the people assisted
the immigrants.

They tried to to help them.

They welcome them.

But after a period of time,

people began to think
about the future.

If there really will come

thousands and thousands
of immigrants,

how to deal with this?

People are mostly
afraid of strangers

where there are
very few strangers.

Those people who have no
feelings of their borders

and put the borders of
the country as their own.

So, if you sit somewhere
in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern

near of Berlin and the country,

and somebody on the
Italian or Austrian border

is pouring into Germany,

it's a threat to their skin.

It's a nationalist movement.

So, this is, once again,
a movement

to separate one country or
one community from the other.

Of course, this
is connected then

with trying to get a
distance to the Nazi time.

So, what the call the
revision of history

is quite a central element

of right-wing
extremist thinking.

Say it loud, say it clear.

Refugees are welcome here.

Nazis out!

Wird sind das volk,
"we are the people,"

was the rallying cry
of these Germans

that led to the collapse
of the Berlin Wall.

But here the words don't unite.

-They divide.

The enemy of the people.

This is the language of Nazism.

What is happening now

is the great replacement.

By mass migration,
by failed migration policy

you see a shift in
European demographics

in every Western
European nation.

In a few decades,
the populations will be
replaced.

Nationalisms look for enemies.

This is true of 2018, '19,

just as it is of the
beginning of the 20th century.

Much has been made
of Hitler's time in Vienna,

especially by Hitler himself.

Hitler lived here,
here, here, here,

and here he lived in
a homeless shelter.

This is the art school he
famously failed to enter twice.

He's an artist,
but a failed artist

and I think that's worth
giving some thought to.

We're in the US Army's
Museum Support Center

at Fort Belvoir, Virginia.

You know the warehouse

at the end of
Raiders of the Lost Ark,

where the US government
stores artifacts

too dangerous to see
the light of day?

This is that place.

So, this is an oversized
head of Adolf Hitler.

It came to us from
the Eagle's Nest.

When this piece was
examined by conservators,

they noted graffiti along
both sides of his neck,

um, and it has been removed.

But at one point, somebody
painted the word "fool"

on one side of his face

and an anatomically correct,

um, phallus on the other side.

So I never know
how to explain that.

You know?
A portion of the male anatomy
on the other side of his face.

The army
holds nearly 600 pieces

of confiscated art
classified as either propaganda

or dangerously promoting
Hitler and Nazism,

including work
by Hitler himself.

So, the four watercolors
by Adolf Hitler

were a part of Heinrich
Hoffman's collection.

Heinrich Hoffmann was Hitler's
personal photographer.

And at the end of the war,
his collection of photographs

as well as these
four watercolors

were confiscated
by the US Army.

This one here is the first
chronologically out of the four.

It was done during his period
as a street artist in Vienna

around 1910 or so.

Um, it portrays, you know,
a random street scene
in Vienna.

There is one human figure,

uh, portrayed right
there in the center.

You know,
he has the attention to detail

that you might want to
see in an architect,

um, but, you know, could he
create this

if he was not standing
in front of it

or copying from a postcard?

Probably not.

If I were on the board
of the Vienna art school

when he applied,

and if he applied just based
on these four watercolors,

my feedback would be
"I wanna see more
variety in your work."

You know, as an artist,
he was not that good.

He could have ended his life
as an unsuccessful artist,

just like Himmler could
have ended his life

as a chicken farmer,
which is something that he
studied.

Uh, and Goebbels as a
journalist at some paper.

But condition was such
that it made it possible

for people like that
to represent large
numbers of people.

"According to
his account inMein Kampf,

the observation that
Jews were different

was enough
for the conclusion,

'Because they are different,
they have to be removed.'"

A lot of what he talks
about in Mein Kampf

about his earlier life
is invented or imagined.

It's not factually reliable
but it is a clue
to his ideology.

You can look at it
and see quite a lot of what
he actually believes in.

Hitler believed every word

of what he was saying,
every word.

-What is antisemitism?

Antisemitism is a
conspiracy theory.

And when social scientists
talk about conspiracy theories,

they're talking about something
that has no basis
in rational fact.

You know, I was--
if I was late to this
interview this morning,

and I'd tell you the traffic
on Broadway was horrendous

because they knew I was
coming to this interview

and the antisemites
were out there

to prevent me from getting here,

you'd say, "Cut,
this woman is nuts.

We'll go onto the next person."

You know,
think about the charges

that the antisemite
makes against the Jews.

The Jews are clannish.
The Jews are pushy.

How can you be clannish
and pushy at the same time?

The Jews are all communists,
leftists, and today's Soros,
trying to overthrow society.

Well, how can you
be a capitalist and a communist
at the same--

It doesn't make sense.
It's irrational.

So, when we try to figure out

where Hitler's
antisemitism came from,

what we're trying to do

is rationally explain
an irrational sentiment.

When people say,
"Oh, well, his mother was
treated by a Jewish doctor

and he couldn't save her."

So what?

The minute you're trying to
give a rational explanation

for an irrational sentiment,

you're gonna be lost.

I think we're lost.

"Recently, an English
historian, David Irving,

has disputed Hitler's
responsibility

for the murder of the Jews,

which Irving claims

was performed by Himmler
on his own initiative

behind Hitler's back.

Irving's thesis
is untenable."

I'll offer you $1,000
if you can prove that

there's even one page,
one wartime page

showing Adolf Hitler
ordering the extermination,

or even knowing it was
going on, whatever it was,

the extermination of the Jews.

David Irving, please.

David Irving, whom I met
several times way back,

is really not a
serious historian

and already in the
late '70's, early '80's,

David Irving was considered
very close to neo-Nazis,

if not to a neo-Nazi.

In his
books on the Nazi era,

British writer David Irving
has argued Adolf Hitler

never ordered the
mass killing of Jews.

His views have endeared him to
neo-Nazis

and gotten him arrested
in Germany and Canada.

He insists Auschwitz
was no death camp

and he's suing an American
author who calls him a liar.

It's an unfortunate
consequence of this trial

that Auschwitz will
lose all credibility
by the time the trial is over.

The defendant is
Deborah Lipstadt.

I defended myself
with everything
I possibly could-- history.

That's how we defended.

We brought historians
into the courtroom

and we followed the footnotes
back to their sources

so that Richard Evans could
say, "It's simply not true."

If you go through, as I did,

saw all his publications
and his speeches,

you can see right to
the very beginning

he tried to exonerate
Hitler all the way through

from any involvement
in the Holocaust

unless it was to try and
stop it or minimize it.

"Hitler was probably
the best friend

that Jews ever had
in the Third Reich,"

he said on one occasion.

And I think he
genuinely believed that.

The court called him
a neo-Nazi polemicist.

The court described his work

as having no facilitated
antisemitism.

The court spoke of his racism.

The verdict will be welcomed

by many around the world,

who see it as a triumph
of truth

over attempts to rewrite a
terrible chapter in history.

Irving now says
he will appeal...

You can't
make a film about Hitler

and not talk to his
biggest admirer.

So we reached out to
David Irving for an interview.

He replied with an
email that began,

"You may be a Jew."

He suggested that
we meet in Poland

during one of his so-called
real history tours

through notable Hitler sites.

Yeah. Yeah.

He's a man who,
according to the enemy,

has millions of notches on
his rifle butt so to speak.

Millions of deaths that
he's responsible for.

And so, that what's people
know about him.

I announce that if people
can come on the tours

and make up their own minds
and see what they're saying,

see what they see and then
see what they believe.

I don't try and push them
one way or the other.

They're interested in this
man who's been lied about.

They want to see him.

They want to see him close up

and this is about as
close up as you get

with Adolf Hitler
and the legend.

Seeing the actual bunkers
where he and his staff lived.

And the interesting thing
is to come and look at it here.

He was protected from the enemy

by these immense concrete walls,

but in the long run,

the truth will filter
through, filter out.

No, Hitchens did, though.

He came to see
Christopher in Washington,

went down in the elevator

with Christopher's
wife and and daughter

and sang a terrible
song to the daughter.

It was a sort of
racist limerick.

-About my little daughter?
-Your not a--

"I am a something-something
Aryan,

not Jewish or sectarian.

I have no plans to marry
an ape or Rastafarian."

Christopher's wife, Carol,
who's not easily shocked said,

"Don't ever leave me alone
with that man again."

It was a very good poem
or a very clever poem.

It was so clever.
In fact, I wrote it
down in my diary,

which is where the
the enemy found it
in the Lipstadt trial,

in my diaries.

And right at the very end,

they kind of dredged
it up as being proof

Mr. Irving being a racist.

In this organized attempt
to smear me into oblivion,

the enemy, as I recall,

traditional enemies
of the truths

have generated-- constructed
this picture

of me being a Holocaust denier,

which is a strange
kind of phrase.

I never met this phrase,
Holocaust denier.

It's one of these
artificial kind of phrases.

It means nothing
when you analyze it.

Old-fashioned
Holocaust deniers

are essentially
neo-Nazis or neo-fascists.

So, people with ultra
right-wing views,

who are antisemitic

and believe that the Jews
have invented all this...

It is a form of antisemitism,
clothed in historical-like garb.

We're just examining history.

We only wanna get to
the truth in history

and if this history
can be rewritten,

any history can be rewritten.

And we've seen that today.
We're seeing that today
in the United States.

We're seeing that today
in parts of Europe

where history just becomes
a political play thing.

And this is what the danger
of the times we are
now living through,

when the very concept of truth
itself has been questioned.

So, let's take this
a little closer to home, right?

-So, I'm Jewish...
-Mm-hmm.

...um, and there's a set
of people who deny

that the Holocaust
happened, right?

I find that deeply offensive.

But at the end of the day,

I don't believe that
our platform should
take that down

because I think
that there are things that
different people get wrong.

Um, either...
I don't think that they're

intentionally getting it
wrong, but I think that they--

In the case of
the Holocaust deniers,
they might be, but go ahead.

It's hard
to impugn intent.

The minute you
give room to people

who are clearly twisting
history and distorting history,

not just a different
interpretation of history,

but such a distortion

and you say, "Oh, everybody's
a right to their opinion."

There are facts,

there are opinions,

and there're lies,

and that's lies.

History is not propaganda.

"During the war,
Hitler was politically happy.

Only his antisemitism
remained unsatisfied

but otherwise,
things went splendidly well
for four years."

He was here in the
chaotic phase of the war.

The war-- The front was not
consolidated at that time,

but everything was very chaotic.

There was still very
hard fighting over here.

When we stand here today,
it's a very peaceful,

a very beautiful and
a nice landscape.

It's very difficult
to get in touch

with the atmosphere
of those days.

The noise and the smell
and the war material,

but we still miss
the part of the story.

It's too quiet.
It's too touristic.

In 1940, as the
British evacuated Dunkirk,

Hitler went on a car tour
of World War I sites.

Here is the village
where his first wound
was treated.

A command bunker.

At one point, he stopped the
car and asked some locals,

"My name is Hitler.
Do you remember me?"

He then visited a cemetery.

-I am blind.
-No organic damage.

No sign of gas poisoning.

His eyes
are completely normal

but he insists
that he can't see.

He probably can't.

A case of hysteria, shock.

An emotional, unbalanced mind

retreating into illness.

We know from other documents

that the diagnosis he's
been given was gas poisoning,

but there has been a
tremendous speculation going on

that he was actually being
treated for psychiatric reasons

and the speculation
goes like this.

He underwent
psychiatric treatment

that he had been
hypnotized, actually.

Hypnosis is often effective

in certain types
of battle neuroses,

such as amnesia.

Put your mind on going to
sleep.

All right.
Now keep your eyes on mine.

Keep your eyes on mine.
Going into a deep, deep sleep.

-Going into
a deep, deep sleep...
-Had been suggested that, okay,

a person of exceptional
qualities can overcome

the blindness you suffer from.

And you are this person
and you're born to be
Germans' savior

in the moment of surrender.

This was used to
overcome his blindness,

but it was never
taken back, the hypnosis.

And he acted under
control or manipulated

by the hypnotic suggestion
for which there is

no evidence whatsoever.

We have the desire
to fill in the blanks

and make up stories where we
have no certain knowledge.

But the underlying rationale
is always the same.

It's that of reduced
responsibility.

We have been hypnotized.

He was hypnotized.

So in the end,
it's no one's guilt.

It's some obscure illness
or hypnotic process.

People are afraid
of identifying

with the Nazis and with Hitler.

But Hitler was a
perfectly normal person.

Uh, his psychological
problems are no different

from those of many
millions of others.

Munich is from the outside,

not much connected
with the Nazi history,

but everything started here.

We are here exactly at
the place where until 1945

was the representative
headquarters of the Nazi Party.

Here we are at the place
of the perpetrators.

And here we do not
want to create empathy.

We do not want to make
an event out of history.

We want to have a
distant, rational approach

so that you can
learn out of history.

We do not want to make
Nazi history interesting.

We do not want to
make it an event.

Hitler started his career here.

Hitler founded the Nazi Party

here in 1920
and he got help from

all different groups of society.

Munich was called the
capital of the movement.

"The party,
when Hitler joined it,

was an obscure
backroom organization

with a few hundred members
of little importance.

The breakthrough experience
was his own discovery

of his power as an orator,

when with sweeping success,

he made his first
speech at a mass rally."

So he studied his audience.

And he had all these
kind of ideas about mass.

The mass being feminine,

the mass being easily won over

by a certain way of
addressing the mass,

by the mass being
open to contagion.

When you are in the crowd

and the crowd is very close

and the crowd has this certain

power of changing you,

then it can be like
in a love affair.

You can become another person.

He wanted to whip up
their emotions,

but also tame them
and channel them.

The masses are put into a form

and then they are
no longer a threat.

'Cause that's one thing
that he never wanted.

He didn't want chaos.

Hitler puts those
people into blocks.

They have to...
stand like this on the field
in a row,

in a vertical
and horizontal row
and all of them,

their gun in the same way.

Blocks and blocks
and blocks and blocks.

A nation of 80 million people
standing in blocks.

That's the fascist fantasy.

He then would give them

an outlet for their emotions

and say, "Well,
look, it's the Jew.

It's the system." It's--

In this way of talk,
they... smell

a proposal, something...

There will be the day
you are allowed

to put your structure
into violent actions

and to get in your
own way of big living.

What's threatening them
has to disappear, totally.

You don't have to worry

and you don't have
to think anymore.

That is his mastership.

That way he is the
loud speaker of

that what was present

in the German nation,

in the German population.

Oh, you are really
intent in having

good sound of this
microphone already?

Okay, all right.

Believe it or not, there
are still people today

that care about good sounds.

Whether it's Barbra Streisand
or Brian Adams or Adele,

these are all people
that care very much

that their emotional delivery
is translated properly.

And it started with
this microphone.

It started in the late 1920s.

There was all of a
sudden a revolution.

So what we have
here is the CMV3, uh,

sometimes referred to
as the Neumann bottle,

but more often now,
especially in America,

referred to as
the Hitler bottle.

Up to mid 1920s,

the microphones that were
used were carbon microphones.

Little carbon
crystals suspended,

and when they get
excited by audio waves

or by sound waves,
they would generate electricity.

The problem was that you had
to be incredibly close to it.

If you would go even this
far away from the microphone,

the volume would
drop by 50% or more.

So all of a sudden,

Hitler was able to
be more evocative,

more animated in
his delivery because

he wasn't shackled
by the technology.

He could actually use the
technology to help him deliver.

By being able to move,
by being soft,

by being whispering
and then building up

and then getting super loud
and it would still sound good.

I bet you it was
just the same as

when the Beatles
performed at Shea Stadium.

All of a sudden,
there was a dimension

that was part of his delivery,

part of the masses
responding in the same way,

uniformly, that was infectious.

And the microphone was
able to allow that.

Hello.

And it's a feedback.

It goes back and forth

and it builds up and
it gets to a crescendo.

And you see it in the
footage of Hitler.

That was exactly how it worked.

He heard himself also
through the loudspeakers.

They were to the
side of the stage.

That means he also
heard himself amplified.

It's almost like Jimi Hendrix
hearing himself

through a Marshall stack.

That also was a
positive feedback loop

in terms of the performance.

So, that whole technology,
microphone all the way

to the loudspeakers,
amplified the emotional
translation

of the message.

I don't even know what
that would be now.

Is it Twitter now that
we don't quite get yet,

that some people use
very effectively?
I don't know.

So I know a lot about
Twitter and Facebook.

-Actually, somebody said
I'm the Ernest Hemingway

of 140 characters.
Can you believe it?

Also the effect
he had on women.

The National Socialists were
the least friendly to women

of all the parties that were
bobbing around in the '20s.

It was a very bad bet for a
woman to be swooning at Hitler.

But swoon they did.

The object of desire,

you can see very good
in pop groups.

The Beatles were
not standing with

their women before the cameras,

when the girls were
shouting and so on.

So, he had to hide his own wife.

Eva Braun didn't
appear in public,

so the place had to be open for
the feelings of the totality

not only fantasy,
in their feeling.

He said, "We were nothing
without your work.

We would be nothing.

It's your economy and
leading the household.

And that's the way we
have to lead the state."

How despicable can it get?

I mean, it's
something that he...

That's wax, he uses
as wax in his hands,

but that he does
not respect or love.

In a way it's kind of weird
that the masses didn't get that.

He produced his environment
that sustained him

and that confirmed
his quest for power,

um, through all kinds
of mythologies,

but also a kind of
day-to-day consent.

It's consent.
He never found
anybody who objected.

They all said, "Well,
we believe you.

We trust you.
We love you."

This is a big crowd.

And normally I like
talking about my crowds

'cause I get
crowds like nobody...

"Hitler was all his life

exceedingly full of himself.

And from his earliest
to his last days

tended to self-conceit.

With the Hitler cult,

Hitler was not only its object,

but also the earliest,
most persistent

and the most
passionate devotee."

Obersalzberg
had a crucial part

for world history because
Adolf Hitler and some other

leading Nazi figures lived here,

had their private houses.

And also, they made some
crucial decisions here,

which meant the death
of millions of people.

Adolf Hitler and basically
his photographer,
Heinrich Hoffman,

they really saw how they
could use this area.

So in 1932, 1933,

they started to make
a lot of pictures here

and to use the area to form
an image of Adolf Hitler

as a person who makes walks
in the nice countryside,

who visits neighbors,
who talks to small children.

So who is the--
kind of the caring uncle

or he is some kind
of this lonely guy.

He's standing in the mountains

and thinking about
the fate of Germany.

of the leader, was that
he's kind of omnipotent.

So he can do everything,
he knows everything.

He's an expert in everything.

But what is quite,
it's interesting,

Hitler lived here
in the mountain

and he showed himself in
front of the mountain view,

but he never tried
to make himself

a sports person, for example.

So he didn't go for hikes.

He didn't do any
skiing in the winter.

If you see back down there,
you can see the flag.

And behind the flag,

there was some kind
of a small hill

where Hitler used
to go afternoon.

And when he made this walk,

he just walked down and
then they went back by car.

So if he made any walks,

it was always down,
not up the hill.

Still, people come here,

also journalists with cameras

and then they say,
"Ah, I'm standing here,

you can see the
historic photograph

and it's exactly this place

where I'm standing,
Adolf Hitler stood."

And this is the kind of
fascination about Hitler

we regard carefully.

That's the place where
the Berghof Adolf Hitler,

the private house
of Adolf Hitler was.

The ruins were--
blew up in 1952

because the people were afraid

that this will be, yeah,
some kind of Nazi shrine.

They planted those
trees to keep the people

away from this area,

but they came every year.

Lots of people came here

because they still
believe in this.

Yeah, in Hitler, they still
believe in the Nazi ideology.

And that's the reason
why the discussion,

how to deal with the
history will never stop.

"Worse had been expected.

During 1933 and '34,

the terror slowly
died down to give way

to the 'good Nazi years,'

to almost normal conditions,

only slightly disturbed by
the continued existence of

the now less crowded
concentration camps."

Haffner is 26 in '33

and he said the dominant
emotion wasn't horror.

It was this utter unreality,

as if everything was clockwork,

that people moved
around like mannequins.

Well, at the very beginning,
enthusiasm was still mixed.

But as years went by,

through the '30s,
enthusiasm grew for two
obvious reasons.

The economic reorganization
and reshaping

of the German economy.

And there were the
successes in foreign policy

and those who were opposed
were either in camps

like the communists and so on.

The Jews, that came later,

nobody really protested,
as far as I know,

mainly in the
universities and so on.

I mean, people took it
in stride, you know, saying,

"Well, the reawakening
of the country

and so on is so important,

so these are little problems."

And others would say,

"Well, good that
Hitler is doing that.

I mean, after all, the Jews
are foreigners," and so on.

I mean, there is a
segment of the population

who certainly knew
that this was

a very problematic regime.

But most Germans
were enthusiastic.

And you should see the
enthusiasm of the elites.

Doctors, lawyers, engineers.

The people who pioneered,

the people who first engaged

in the ways of killing

were doctors.

You see doctors
who just flipped,

just flipped and began
to talk in medical terms

of the need to starve patients
before they start gassing them.

In certain places, they're
killing them by starving them.

This was done in the
most advanced society

with the active participation
of those elements of society

that we generally see
as a counterweight

to this kind of authoritarian,

genocidal regime.

How is that possible?

But what is really
historically important

is the readiness of an immense
number of people in Germany

at the beginning to go after
him and then to take even steps

beyond what the Nazis demanded.

Sir Ian Kershaw in Britain
put it very clearly,

He didn't have to say anything.

"The Third Reich
was producing guns and butter

and a great many
other things.

'The man may have his faults,

but he has given us
work and bread again,'

was the million-fold view.

In the prologue to his
biography of Hitler,

Joachim Fest
performs an interesting
speculative experiment.

He says, 'If Hitler had
succumbed to an assassination

or an accident at
the end of 1938,

few would hesitate
to call him one of

the greatest of
German statesmen.'"

Was he a great man?

Well, that's a strange question.

His appeal was to promise,

let's be very, very basic here,

work and a better life.

And they got it.

They were looking for a savior.

So here he was.

It wasn't an ideology.

It was more like
characterology in that

the ideology consisted
of a rallying cry.

And this is quite close
to what Haffner wrote.

He said, "And it was
saying, with a bullhorn,

'Those of you who
are willing to rob,

cheat, beat and kill people
who have done you no harm,

then gather around my flag.'"

Well, Hitler was a
racist and he believed that

human history is
defined by the struggle

between different races for
the survival of the fittest

and indeed for domination.

And that struggle
had to be perpetual.

You had to keep going or you
became soft and weak as a race.

Master race and what
are they in daily life?

A piece of little shit.

When you belong to
the master race,

you have to have
the proof someday.

If it's a secret at all,

that would be the secret

that he gives the
people the feeling

they will be allowed one day

to do the killings
they are full with

and they are fantasizing.

And that's what really happened.

"For three years,
day after day,

Jewish families
throughout Europe

were taken from their homes
or hiding places,

transported to the east
and driven naked

into the death factories
where the chimneys

of the cremating furnaces
smoked day and night."

They're coming.

They hear the whistle
and they're frightened
and they run this way.

We'll go further.

We're gonna go left.

Here we've got the road
to the execution sites.

It's going to be a
very pleasant walk.

Treblinka.
Between 1942 and '43,

the Nazis murdered over
900,000 people here.

It's also one of the
highlights of Irving's tour.

The stones are symbolic of...

These Jews have a particular
habit of inflating numbers.

They want big numbers.

We find out usually that
the numbers are smaller.

I love seeing things like this.

This is where history began.

That's true.

Hmm?

Got no idea.
Got no idea.

Beate and Serge
Klarsfeld are Nazi hunters

responsible for bringing
many Nazis to justice,

including, most famously,
Klaus Barbie.

Paris is celebrating
Bastille Day and the World Cup
final.

But Serge and Beate
are worried.

A few months later,

Serge and Beate's concerns

about rising nationalism
feel urgent.

It's an important event,

the restoration of independence
after the First World War.

It became
a kind of an occasion

for nationalist fringe

movements to come up in
public space

and demonstrate.

And it became just a huge thing.

It's organized by these
very radical fascists,

some of them organizations,

but it brings in also a
lot of people who kind of

go there for a big
demonstration and...

There is, from the
interwar years,

a very well established
and articulated fascist,

if you will, trajectory
in Polish politics.

A party, which
carries the same name

and uses the same
paraphernalia, the same symbols.

Some of these flags,
if you look closely,

you will see that it carries
a symbol that in some way

is reminiscent of the
swastika, of the hakenkreuz.

Made of a bent arm with a sword.

Before the war, it was a
right radical splinter group

from the nationalist movement.

It had the same
name then as now,

And they were just beating
Jews in the streets.

And their ideology, heart
of their nationalistic,

if you will, message
to get rid of the Jews.

And this is a legal
organization in Poland today.

This regime kind of winks to
these groups and tells them,

"We're not going to touch you."

And they thrive.

-In a natural way, what they
would want to do is also,

of course, expunge
these complicated
parts of the history.

They are not interested in
having it told as it was.

As a Pole, this is an
extraordinarily upsetting

and dramatic event,

given what Poland
has gone through.

Wartime history is on one hand

a history of
incredible sacrifice

and suffering on the part
of the Polish population.

And then slowly we discover
that it is fraught,

the history of the
Second World War,
with this very dramatic story

of complicity in the
persecution of the Polish Jews

during the Second World War.

This is not a
Polish specificity.

This is a phenomenon of
all of occupied Europe.

It makes confronting the
history of the Second World War

very complicated.

the German Bundestag for
Holocaust Memorial Day.

Among the audience
are far right members
of Parliament,

including Alexander Gauland,
who as you may remember,

likened the Nazi period
to a mere bird dropping

on German history.

Every historian has some
other historians he likes

and some other
historians he likes less.

We went to the same school,
by the way, in Prague.

Elementary school?
-Pardon?

-High school?
-No, elementary school.

He is six years
younger than I am.

So we didn't know each other,
you know, but, uh...

You know, they went to France,
huh?

They went to France, why?

Because they were aware
of the Hitler regime

and the occupation
of Czechoslovakia.

And so, we managed to
get out before that.

My father decided to
leave Europe in 1934.

It took him four years to
collect the money to do that.

But the decision
was made way before.

One year after
Hitler came to power.

He-- that's it.

Bauer's family
went to Palestine.

and then tried to
escape to Switzerland.

that his mother and father
were killed in Auschwitz.

I've been asked many a time
whether writing the memoir

created a kind of catharsis,
you know, therapeutic,
as you say.

No, it didn't create anything.
Um...

The memoir was what it was.

And then I decided to write

the history of the whole period.

I didn't know it
would take so long,

but it did take 16 years
or something.

But now I feel, you know,
in this old age

that I've done what
I wanted to do.

Look, one cannot compel
memory to move in a...

It moves in its own direction.

You cannot do anything
about it, right?

Speaking of that...

There are ways of putting
an end to the spell, I think.

But what happened with
many films is that

they prefer the spell because
it's attracting the viewers.

I mean, you should end on the,
in my opinion, I cannot...

You asked me,
"How should we end?"

So, I took the...

In a way,
I took the...

I answer your question.

Maybe you should end
in a place like that.

That would put an end
to the fascination.

This is what he calls
the unknowable spot.

Here there is nothing.
Little was photographed
and nothing was filmed.

Everything was erased.

Himmler, speaking to the SS
in 1943 said of the killing,

"This is the page
never to be written."

Had the Nazis won the war and
had there been no survivors,

the extermination would
have remained secret.

The forest the only witness.

That is why Wojciech and
the historians keep digging.

Hi...

People believe in the
destruction of other people.

People actually believe
that this is the only way

to rescue their society,
humanity, whatever.

And one of the great problems
that people today have

who are educated in liberal
or semi-liberal societies,

is they don't understand

how people can
believe that stuff.

Contrary to others,

I don't think that Nazism

or the ideas behind
Nazism are dead.

In the world of
the internet where people are
spending more and more

of their lives online,
the currency is,
of course, attention.

And we are all probably familiar
with the idea of click bait,

but in order to gain
attention online,

you have to be sensational.

You have to be irreverent.

You have to be controversial.

You have to get
eyeballs looking at you.

And, of course, Hitler
is a very easy way

to accomplish that precise goal.

What?

What's with the Christmas...

I like the editing.

Subscribe to Keemstar.

Normalizing Hitler
pays off for people.

But while they're doing that,
they're radicalizing people.

They're introducing them
to much more controversial

and extreme content.

I was invited to go
to Charlottesville.

I was told, and this
is what the event was.

It was called Unite the Right.

It's pretty self-explanatory.

You shall not replace us.

Hell, yeah.
What's up fam?

Let's keep moving forward.
Okay, it's a zoo out here.

Out here with Brittany Venti.

What up, fam?

We're live too.

Shit is wild out here.

We got hundreds of people
out here with torches.

It was a full-on like, almost
like a mob, but not quite,

because a mob is like
angry and disorganized.

Everyone here was very
like calm and like focused.

Like calm at first,
and then focused.

Everyone has their tiki torches.
Everyone managed to bring one.

There was like 600 people.

I don't know, maybe
there was 1000.

It just seemed like a
sea of endless people.

I was breathless.

My breath was taken away.

Yeah, torchlight,
it's beautiful.

You know, the way, the light
on people's faces and so forth.

I mean, there's
something very romantic

and very dramatic about it.

I mean, tiki torches, basically.

But in the context,
it's horrifying.

So, you have
beautiful on one hand

and horrifying on the other.

And you have to know the history

to know why it
might be horrifying.

Oh, my God. History isn't
pretty all the time, guys.

People get fucking
slaughtered and killed.

We are in the process
of undergoing a phenomenon

that's comparable to
industrial revolutions,

like the invention of
steam engines suddenly

and this information
revolution that's taking place.

And there are no institutions

within this democratic, uh,

paradigm, if you will, to
contain somehow and manage

the fact that people
can communicate

with tens of millions of
people instantaneously

without any sort of filters.

We grew up with the Internet.

So we have no centralized
source of information

that controls what we think.

You have demagogues
now that can reach

on their own instantaneously,

untold numbers of people.

Because you see,
I know the truth

and people out
there in the world,

they really don't
know the truth.
They don't know what it is.

The people, my people
are so smart

and you know what else
they say about my people?

The polls.
They say I have the
most loyal people.

Did you ever see that?

Where I could stand in
the middle of Fifth Avenue

and shoot somebody and I
wouldn't lose any voters, okay?

It's like incredible.

No, they say, "Trump,
we love you too, man.

Trump's voters are by far--"

I'm at 68, 69%.

I'm at 90% total.

Like,
will you say absolutely,

I think it's 68 or 69%.

If there's no limit
to what you can say,

it's easy to believe there's
no limit to what you can do.

When somebody is the
President of the United States,

the authority is total.

It's all a lie.

We are back in the city
where this movie started.

It took a catastrophe
to see the obvious.

Never has age and human
experience felt so precious.

Yehuda Bauer turned
94 a week ago.

I'm still working.

I'm not quite dead yet.

Soon, but not yet.

With that,
he gets the final word

on the meaning of Hitler.

Humans are animals
who kill other animals

of the same species.

They also develop the opposite,

because we are herd animals.

So we develop sympathy and love
and collaboration and so on

because a herd cannot
exist without that.

And so, there are two
conflicting elements

in all of human society
and all attempts to fight

the kind of Hitlerism that
we are discussing here

are really the
attempt to strengthen

one human reaction against
another human reaction.

The problem that we have is not
that the Nazis were inhuman,

but that they were human.

That's the basic
problem that we have,

with ourselves,
not with the Nazis.

We also act out our ideas.

Fortunately,
they are not Nazi ideas,

but the Nazi ideas
were acted out

by people who were
absolutely normal.