All language subtitles for Before.They.Kill.Again.S01E03.1080p.WEB.h264-FREQUENCY_track3_[eng]

[ominous music]

[line ringing]

[sobs] [bleep]

Damn it!

And, you know, they say,

the measure of how much
you love someone,

is how many tears
you shed for them.

[gunfire]

[dispatcher speaking]

[officer speaking]

When you're negotiating,
you want to be able to see

inside the mind
of the suspect.

I was thinking about
the psychological
aspect of it.

[Kirk Felker]
I started hearing
bullets go by my head.

[gunfire]

I was essentially passing out
from the blood loss.

[officer speaking]

[David Kleensang] You knew it
was either going to end
with him surrendering

or with gunfire,

and I had
to play the game.

But it's who
comes out on top.

-[dispatcher speaking]
-[officer speaking]

[theme music playing]

[David] On June 12th,
the day of the call,

the dispatcher
called me on the phone

and says, "Dave,
you need to head to Alliance.

There's something
going down there."

There was a hostage situation.

[David] A subject had
entered the pharmacy.

There were three employees
in the pharmacy at the time.

The pharmacist himself,
who was also the owner,

and two employees.

The two employees
were able to run out.

One of them ran
to a neighboring business

to call 911.

[David] The pharmacist
was taken hostage
by the suspect

and the suspect
barricaded the doors.

My area of specialty
at the time
was hostage negotiations.

But prior to this incident,
I had actually only

dealt with two situations
as a negotiator.

And they were
relatively minor.

I was thinking, "Dave,
you need to get to Alliance

before the situation
at the pharmacy
gets a whole lot worse."

[gunfire]

[Kirk] I was
the first on scene.

When you get a call like that,
you know somebody is at risk.

And I'm going in.

That's what I do.

I smelled gunpowder.

It's something that
heightens your awareness,

and I was just hoping
that somebody
hadn't been killed,

and that's when I
encountered the suspect.

It happens in slow motion.

I did not recognize him.

I did see that
he was holding a gun.

I gave him
a command to drop it.

He almost smirked
and extended
the gun toward me.

[gunshots]

[Kirk] I got shot
in the arm.

It was bleeding
pretty heavily.

I didn't want
to become a liability

to another officer
having to come in and save me.

So I made the decision
to exit the pharmacy

at that time.

[gunshots]

I have spotty recollection of
of what happened next,

but I was essentially
passing out
from the blood loss.

The next thing I remember
is waking up in my room
after the surgery.

There it is, So, entry-exit.
Kind of came in
and just blew everything up.

After coming back
from surgery,
things were foggy.

I had a lot of concern
for the people
that were on scene.

I did wonder about
what the motives were.

I didn't know if he was
local or from out of town
or who he was.

[David] We now know that
whosoever involved is violent.

Shooting an officer
meant that you were dealing

with somebody that was
on the extreme scale
of dangerous.

I was going
to have to be careful

to try not to anger him.

Try not to to make
the situation worse,

[dialing]

[line ringing]

This is the first contact
that anybody had had

after he entered
the pharmacy.

It was unusual in the sense
that he was threatening
with explosives.

Uh, that's kind of odd,

but he was calmer
than I would have
expected him to be.

In trying to figure out
the mind of the suspect,

his demeanor told me
one of two things.

Either he was in extreme
control of himself

or that he was resigned
to what the situation was.

He was taking
the aggressive stance.

That was his way of trying
to control the situation.

[line disconnects]

I received a call
from a CI.
Confidential informant.

He was very agitated,
excited,

He says, "Dave,
Fat Andy," he called him,

"tried robbing the pharmacy."

When the CI told me
it was Fat Andy,

well, then I knew right away
that it was Andy Gonzalez.

That was a big problem.

Because Andy was
the primary suspect
in a homicide case.

And so now the pharmacist
was in extreme danger

because of what
we knew about Andy.

I knew that
he had killed a guy.

[LorriJo Koch] Oh,
that's my boy, my boy.

That's my boy.

This was when I had
so much hope for him.

So much hope.

And I really felt like
he was headed down

a path that would
provide him a future.

And...

And that he would be happy.

He had been through
so much.

Larry Gonzalez
was my husband.

and Larry had
a history of sexually

and physically and verbally
abusing Andy...

as a little boy, but I
didn't know anything about it

Ange would deny it
over and over again.

When I left Larry
and moved out

to get a divorce,

Ange was was very,
very emotional.

His brother and he
was still living there.

He seemed
to withdraw more,

but ate more.

I think it might
have had to do

with his coping mechanism
being food at the time.

Food was his friend.

When he was in middle school,
they picked on Ange
because he was a big kid.

Ange had brought
a gun to school,

because he wanted
to put fear

in a group of boys

that were going
to beat him up.

Although it was
a bad choice,

he never loaded the gun,
never threatened anybody.

After that, Ange went through
a very, very dark time.

Ninth grade, tenth grade.

[sighs] He was
expelled from school,

suspended for fighting.

But this picture is
when he got his GED.

And Ange wanted
to be a chef.

He was a happy kid.
A happy young man.

Thought he
was really going places.

Until he found drugs.

It was a Tuesday
morning in June.

It was beautiful outside.

It was gonna be warm.

I got ready for work.
I was excited.

It was a good day.

We just started
and one of the nurses

came in and said, um,
"We have a situation."

The nursing home I worked at

would have to go
into lockdown mode.

There is an active shooter
in Thiele's Pharmacy,

and he's got Charles.

And I don't know how to
explain to you folks. I don't.

But a mother knows
or has... has this feeling.

She knows.

I knew. I just knew it.

I was going downtown
to the pharmacy.

I was gonna go get my son
and get him out of there

and ask him what the hell
he was thinking.

I was gonna go chew him out.

And I remember I jumped out
and I took off running.

And somebody tackled me.

And told me
I couldn't go there.

And I said, "That's my son.

I'm going, I'm going."
And he said, "No, you can't."

I just remember thinking,
"I've just got to get to him."

If I can get to him,
we'll take care of this.

This... We'll get this
taken care of.

I said, "Don't...

underestimate what
a mother is capable of."

Even though the intentions
may be good,

it has been shown many times
in past incidents

that allowing a third party
to become involved,

such as Mom
was wanting to do,

uh, only has
negative effects.

The Josh Bullock case

initially started as
a missing person case.

He was
a suspected drug dealer,

especially being marijuana.

He, all of a sudden,
disappeared.

A hunter found
Mr. Bullock's pickup.

The truck was
virtually incinerated.

Who could do
something like this?

Somebody that was
extremely unstable.

We received from a couple
of different sources

that Andy was dealing
for Mr. Bullock.

Andy had apparently
not paid Josh.

That's when
we really started

looking at Andy
as our prime suspect.

I said, "Andy, I'm Dave."

I was expecting someone
that was excited,

agitated, upset.

[David] I had to turn around
and tell myself

"You can't really ask him
any questions
about the homicide,"

because with
a hostage situation,

you do not want to,
you know, aggravate him.

You have to concentrate
on just the one thing.

The negotiations.

The next thing he said was,
"I want $250,000 cash.

And I want a plane
at the airport.

There's something else
going on here."

[David] Normally,
with negotiations,

the negotiator
doesn't say yes or no

to demands that are made
by a suspect.

It is always routed through
this group of decision makers,

my supervisors,
and then you respond back.

Well, that group
hadn't had time to gather.

I felt like I shouldn't delay
an answer to his demands.

So, it was contrary
to protocol,

but I just told Andy
at that time...

I said, "Andy, you know
that isn't going to happen."

It was a risk on my part.

It was going to tell me a lot
about how things
were going to go.

And he just said, "Okay."

After first contact
with Andy,

that's when I found out

that officers
had arrived at the scene.

They were told to
go in next door.

This building
was adjacent to the pharmacy.

They were going
down a hallway.

They did not know that
the end of this hallway

was a common wall
with the office

where Andy
and Charles were.

I'm not sure
if Andy heard radio,

if he just heard...

but because he heard them,

he just started firing
blindly through the wall.

[David] There were two
officers pinned down.

Well, this would be

your worst nightmare
for those officers.

They are not expecting
that there's going to be

bullets coming at them
through the wall.

[David] Knowing
that those guys
were in the building,

my number one concern
was for their safety.

They already knew that Andy
would shoot through walls.

If they did anything
to attract his attention,

he wouldn't have any
hesitation to do it again.

When I got back
on the phone with Andy,

what my plan was,

was that I could
convince him

that the best ending
to this situation

was for him to just
come out of the building
and surrender.

[line ringing]

[David] His speech
was very slurred.

He sounded very lethargic.

I knew he had been
ingesting drugs.

So that also led me to believe
that that was the motivation

for the robbery to begin with.

Drugs, as opposed to money.

That added another facet
to this situation

because I didn't know
which way the drugs
would push him.

If they would push him

to be more violent
and aggressive.

He was very paranoid
about noises.

If he heard something,
he would,

"What was that?
What's going on?
What are they doing?"

Andy said
that he would come out,

but whenever he said that,

there was always a "but."

"But I have to do more drugs."

[David] I had to
play the game.

I had to put on the facade
that I trusted Andy.

But there was
absolutely no reason
that I could trust him.

I was on and off
the phone with Andy.

Sometimes he
would not answer.

[line ringing]

I finally figured out
that he was either
making a call,

an outside call,
or receiving an outside call.

Andy being able to talk
to somebody other than me,

I can only view
as a detriment.

We don't know
who he's talking to.

We don't know
what's being said.

At around noon,
I was at my parent's home,

and we were just waiting.

And the phone rang
and it was Ange.

And he said, "I just
wanna tell you I love you."

And I said,
"What are you doing, Ange?
Why... Let Charlie go."

I remember, he said, "I...
I can't deal
with this right now.

I can't... I can't deal
with this right now."

Because I was
so insistent, you know?

"Let Charlie go. Come out!

Please come out."

And he said, "I can't deal
with this right now.

I gotta go, Mom.
I just wanted you to know

you're the best mother
I could have ever had.

I love you."

I remember those few words.

I will always
remember those.

And I thought to myself,
"I wasn't a good mother.

If I was a good mother,

you wouldn't be sitting
in a pharmacy, holding...
holding a hostage.

You'd be happy
and have a good life."

And I just remember
that feeling.

But then he hung up.

After that, there was
an unspoken sense

that everyone knew,

this was not
gonna end good.

[David] After we were
back talking again,
I explained to him

if he surrendered
what would happen.

He expressed
his fear of getting hurt.

His comment to me was,
"Well, after I'm laying down
on the sidewalk,

they're going to dogpile me
and I'm going to get hurt."

[David] He had
a double set of standards.

He had no qualms
about hurting,
killing other people,

but he did not want
to get hurt.

Then he became
jittery, nervous.

I felt like something
was always holding him back.

There was
some kind of barrier.

I didn't know the reason why,
all of a sudden, boom...

When Andy told me that he had
killed his dad, I was shocked.

That was a totally new piece
of information to me

and definitely
makes the situation

a whole lot different
and a whole lot worse.

[Cody Buskirk] The morning
of June 12th 2012,
I was asleep.

And I woke up to
a phone call, not from
the police department,

but from my mother,

who had heard a local
Alliance police officer

was injured, shot on duty,

and she was scared that
it would have been me.

I didn't know which
one of my coworkers,

my friends, was injured.

And I shot out of bed

and called
the police department

to see what
I needed to do next.

When we first
arrived at the residence,

we discovered
that the front door

had been barricaded
with a coffee table
and a chair.

So we force
our way through.

We're able to push
through the furniture.

We identified an individual
laying there
under three blankets.

After uncovering him,
we identified him
as Larry Gonzalez.

He had a single gunshot wound
to the abdomen
and was clearly deceased.

We saw guns
at every entry point
and exit at that residence,

as well as an arsenal
kind of laid out
in the bedroom.

It seemed like he was ready
for a standoff at his house.

It would have been easy
to pull in the garage
and shut the door behind him.

And now he's in the house
and his rifle is right there
when he walks in.

I think he intended to get
what he wanted and get home

and Felker stopped him.

[David] That floored me
when I heard that.

It just kept compounding
how violent he was.

I remember I got a call
from the police.

And he said to me, "Lorri,
I just want you to know

that we found Larry,
and he's dead."

And I really didn't give Larry
much of a thought, honestly.

I didn't process
that Larry was dead.

I couldn't process that

because my focus
was primarily on Ange.

The next phone call,
it was Ange on the phone,

"Ange," I said,
"you killed your father."

You know,
"You shot your father.
You killed him."

And suddenly it went
from the calm demeanor
to this frightened voice.

This... this shocked voice.
This voice that was not calm.

It was scared.

And, "I killed him
in self-defense, Mom.

I killed Dad
in self-defense."

And the phone went dead.

Why would he do this?

Why... why would he
kill his dad?

My instincts tell me
that it is highly probable

that Ange killed Larry
because Larry had
put a gun to his head,

and threatened to kill him.

I've watched Larry
get into altercations

with his kids.

I watched him try
and beat up Ange.

So yes, I...
I truly believed that what
Ange was saying was...

He didn't mean to.

He didn't mean to.

I didn't see enough
to say yes or no,

it was self-defense.

Um, I saw a single
gunshot wound
to the abdomen.

And then he was
covered up in blankets.

And that speaks to me

that Andy
didn't want to see him.

There might be, you know,
guilt, shame, remorse.

When Andy
mentioned the killings,

I didn't really feel
that he was remorseful.

Admitting to the killings

just reinforced
how psychotic he was.

But I had to be careful.

I didn't say
what I was thinking.

I want to ask him about it,

but the whole purpose

of this negotiations

is to try to keep him calm.

To try to get him
to come out.

We had been talking
about him coming out.

He said something
along the lines

of that he wanted to,
but he couldn't.

We had been talking
for quite a while,

and Andy's cell phone
was about ready to die.

We did not want
to lose contact with him.

Charles made
the comment about,

"Well, my phone's
out on the counter
and it has a full charge."

Andy told Charles
to go out and get the phone.

Andy followed Charles.

[Andy breathing heavily]