Original subtitles

Look at that.

- I guess we can start talking now. - I guess so.

- We should say who we are. - This is wild.

I'm Michelle Paradise.

I type things. I co-typed this episode.

Didn't you do more than that?

- I did, yes. - I think so.

Executive producer. Typer of words.

She always says that. Runner of the show.

- Yes. - "It could not happen without me,"

is what you should say.

Yeah, Sonequa completed it for you there. Yeah.

Okay. Thank you.

I'm Olatunde Osunsanmi, the director of this particular episode,

and I produce on the show as well.

Producing director of all the episodes.

- Producing director of all the episodes... - Yes.

...but not to be confused with the director of all the episodes.

True.

- And the executive producer as well. - And the executive producer.

Okay, clearly, I haven't been introducing myself this well.

None of this would happen without you either.

True. Also would not happen without me. That's how you finish.

Yeah.

I'm Sonequa Martin-Green.

I play Captain Michael Burnham.

So, I'm on the show at times.

Only some... I mean, we could probably do it without you,

- but, you know. - Probably.

- No. - I think you probably could.

- Also, producer on the show. - Yes, you are.

- Yes, you are. - Yes, you are.

Yep. Executive producer for the final season.

- Yes. - Yes, you are.

Couldn't do it all without you.

So far, has done the best at introducing.

I know. And has helped introduce us.

David, make us proud.

I'm always ready for y'all.

I'm always like, "Let me finish this now."

No days off.

Listen, I'm David Ajala from Hackney, London,

- and I play Cleveland Booker. - Awesomely.

- That was... - That was strong.

Solid.

We managed to talk our way through the "previously on."

Oh, no!

Oh, that's wild! Geez, this is nuts seeing this. Wow.

This is Jonathan Frakes's episode here. Yeah.

I just have to say, like, look at our VFX team.

- Yeah, like, seriously. - Insanity.

Yeah.

- So good. - Led by J.Z.

- Yes. - J.Z.

- Jason Zimmerman. - The myth, the legend.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Not to be confused with the other JAY-Z, but...

That's right.

When I first came onto the show and they kept calling him J.Z.,

it always took me a minute, like, oh, no. No, not that one.

Right.

Look at this.

Look at this.

This was really cool.

I haven't seen the final effects. This is the first time.

- Really? - Yeah.

- Wow. - Not the final, final, final.

Well, get ready, 'cause look at this world that you're in.

So neat.

Oh, my goodness.

Yeah, it's beautiful.

So, Michelle, I have a question for you.

How did you come up with the infinity hallway?

Well, we came up with the infinity hallway.

I don't think we did.

I think you did.

It might have been me and I... I don't know.

No, I thought we did, because there was that...

What is... the Escher... the Escher drawing?

The... With the...

Gosh, I'm not gonna remember now.

I remember talking about a hallway.

But I do remember you introducing the Escher drawing.

Yeah.

And it was... Yeah, go on.

No, I can't remember how... It might have been something that...

I honestly can't remember if that was something that Kyle and I found together

or if we were talking about it in the room, or...

But it was just... It was one of those really interesting drawings

that just sort of felt very, very otherworldly and multidimensional.

And then just taking that as the starting point,

and then talking with you about it,

and then getting Doug McCullough, our production designer, involved,

and, of course, J.Z. and his VFX team.

And, like, it just... As with everything on the show,

it ended up being such a collaborative effort from everyone.

And then you... I want you to talk about,

oh, my gosh, your directing template.

I've not, like... You had pages of things and they were color coded,

and it was which world we're in and where the camera needs to be.

It was insa... I've never seen anything like it.

Well, it was fascinating because this... you know, we'd shot the wall...

the VR wall... the season before.

And so, this was our second season with it,

and we'd gone through a whole season, so this was the last episode with it.

And the amount of knowledge

we all accumulated on how to shoot it has been astronomical.

And it wasn't just us, the crew, it was also the cast

and what are they looking at, and how to manage the wall...

'cause the... what the audience might not realize

is while the wall seems like it's all stable in those images, it...

it's actually flying around and moving around

- depending on where the camera... - Yeah.

So, while the cast...

and, you know... and Sonequa and David should speak about this in a little bit,

but while the cast is looking at an image, that image is not reality... total reality.

Because reality is moving around them like a carousel.

And it was... it was quite involved, the, you know,

figuring out what world is in which window,

- you know, and all of that, and... - Wow.

It was definitely all of us working

at the... our peak knowledge of what the wall could and couldn't do.

Wow.

Remember this day, Tunde?

I remember. I remember this day.

- Tell us about this day. - Yeah.

I think it's got to be one of the most intense...

action, you know, sequences we've done.

- One of 'em. For sure. - Really. Yeah.

And, I mean, this whole setup...

it was a huge parking lot.

I think across from the building where the production offices were.

- Right? Am I right about that? - That's right.

We took over the entire parking lot.

The entire parking lot was this gigan...

This monstrous rig,

and so much of this is... was just practical

with this rain going

and then with the wind machines,

and then, I mean, it was intense.

It was intense.

I was... I was...

I don't know, I was grateful to have something like this,

on the way out, you know? It was freezing.

- I had so much padding underneath. - Really?

And there was always, like, the danger of, like, hypothermia

because there was so much waterlog

with all of the freezing water.

And, you know, I gotta big-up the ladies in the costume department,

because they really took such good care of me,

trying to change out each time so that I wouldn't get sick.

If I remember correctly, they even heated the water for you,

but by the time it came down and it hit you,

- it was cold again... - Yeah, yeah!

...because it was so cold on set.

It was c... Yes, that's right, y'all,

'cause we shot this in November in Toronto.

- Yes, it was Toronto, November. - Oh, snap!

Yeah!

- Yeah, so it was freezing outside... - Right.

...and man, every single thing that could have been done

to, like, help the situation was definitely done.

Like, you know, but we were all still just, like, tripping.

Me and Tunde kept looking at each other, being, like, "Yeah."

- Right? - Yeah, it was... it was nuts,

because, you know, there are no visual effects to the water that's falling here.

- The water above the set, right? - Really?

So, Sonequa is actually in that water.

And, yeah, Michelle's right. It was heated,

but the problem was, by the time it got down to her,

because it's falling 50 feet, it was freezing. It was freezing.

And so, I just want the audience to know,

you know, when you're watching that,

that is her operating in freezing temperatures

and doing a full-blown fight.

It's one thing to do a fight.

It's another thing to do a fight on wires.

It's another thing to do a fight on wires

with 50 mile per hour wind blowing in your face.

It's another thing to do a fight on wires

with 50 mile per hour wind blowing in your face

with freezing water that's also blowing in your face at that speed.

So that was... Again, that's not the kind of thing you could do

just right out the gate.

It's the kind of thing you'd have to do with accumulated knowledge

- of skill and talent and work ethic. - Yeah.

It's hard. That is hard work that we saw that day.

Thank you, and I mean, Tunde is, like, everybody's producer.

He's the producer's producer.

He's the actor's producer. He's the writer's producer.

And so, he's such a... I don't know, just such a phenomenal leader

on set as well, and a guardian of sorts.

And so, you really feel like he's in it with you.

And a lot of times, you are, Tunde.

A lot of times, you've literally been in it with us.

- And so, it was... it was a lot of fun. - Yeah.

It really was. It was, like...

I don't know, I was really grateful for it.

Yeah.

And it's nice to...

I think we're fortunate that it's captured on film forever.

Yeah.

Yeah, because we went above and beyond. You're right. Everybody did.

Everybody went above and beyond for that sequence, man.

Yeah.

- Look at her. - Really cool.

- Oh, my goodness. - Eve Harlow.

- Eve Harlow. - What a great addition to this season.

- Yeah. - Like, truly, what a...

I mean, casting-wise and producers, and the powers that be,

must have known that they struck gold when they hired Eve.

I think she's just... she's a rocket.

- She is. - And a proper sweetheart.

Yeah, she was one of those...

You know, it happens every now and then in casting

where someone comes in

and immediately, they explode off the screen and you just know.

"Oh, my gosh. That's the person."

- And that was Eve... - Yeah.

And what was really funny is now, like, meeting her as just a person.

She's so... She's, like...

She would be the first to say she's not badass.

She says of herself that she's not badass, not coordinated.

She was so nervous about doing the stunts.

She's, like, just the nicest, gentlest,

- like, sweet, animal-loving person... - Yes!

...and she plays this total badass,

you know, who wants to kick your ass in this.

- Exactly. - Yeah.

Talk about work ethic.

Man, she really stepped up to the plate,

and it's a testament to her skill as an actor.

How different she is in real life.

We were all, just, so proud of her,

and she was proud of herself as well,

'cause she surprised herself.

She saw just what she was capable of.

- Exactly. - Yeah. Isn't that the truth?

Isn't that the truth?

Yeah, and she came in,

and it's a thing to have to go toe-to-toe with Michael Burnham...

and to be a formidable force in the face of Michael Burnham.

And so, it was really important to all of us

that Michael go up against somebody

that, you know,

we feel is a close match,

and I thought she really pulled it off well.

And I think she did something that, hopefully, she's proud of too.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's no small feat for any actor to come in

and share the screen with both of you.

Like, that's, you know, that's just,

that is not an easy thing to do.

So, yeah, she did great.

And so did Elias, because he had to...

- Yeah. - Elias Toufexis, my goodness.

Who came back to us after such a long time.

In a way, 'cause he was in episode 3 of season 1 as a human.

- Yeah. - That's quite the memory there, Sonequa.

- I know! - Oh, yeah!

Yeah, that's... that's impressive.

That's impressive.

Tunde, I remember there was a conversation we had on set,

and I remember...

So, for those of you who may not know, listening to the audio,

Jonathan Frakes and Tunde have a very healthy level

of competition with just always raising the standards.

And you know what... I said to you, Tunde,

I really appreciate how open you are,

with always wanting to elevate the standard.

I was just speaking about Eve coming on the show and Elias.

They're surrounded by people

who are actively pursuing elevation, innovation, and working hard.

And I love how we celebrate that, champion that,

and always put our best foot forward to do the best that we can.

I think it's something that's really inspired me.

I love the way Tunde never shied away from that, truly.

Oh, yeah.

Thanks for that.

It's hard, what we do, and our audience is very demanding,

you know, and they...

They love the show and it's their childhood we're playing with here.

And for me, it's just been a wonderful opportunity

to give it everything,

and also been one of these situations where I feel so fortunate

that I'm surrounded by people who also want to give it everything,

and who also want to hold hands and...

and jump off the cliff and give it our all.

I love how these things are being said and the audio being kept immortalized

'cause I really do believe that there are so many people

that need to understand, like, how wonderful you all are, truly.

Because we say it sometimes when we have fleeting moments

of just sending and giving each other flowers.

But here we have it recorded and I'm so happy.

There are no words. There are not enough words.

That's true.

That's true. My gratitude knows no bounds.

I know we all feel the same.

What did we do to you?

Our first... The first week out with us, David.

- Oh, Lord. I'm still recovering. - Yes.

I'm still recovering.

You put me through it.

You played it down when you introduced the idea of being in Iceland

and filming and action sequences.

I went through everything.

Jumped off of a cliff with SMG...

Yeah!

- In the hot springs. - Hot springs.

That was glorious.

I have a rap that you guys did in the hot springs

that you and Sonequa... that you guys did.

I remember that.

That's amazing.

You know, I gotta send it to you, you know.

Please.

You know what, that is hilarious.

I'm convinced in a past life that I was a rapper.

No, not very successful, but, you know, I have the best of intentions.

So, every now and then, I think I just...

I do it and I get people to indulge me.

So I always get Sonequa to join in my made-up raps.

- I know. I would do my best. - Thank you. I appreciate that.

Oh, my goodness.

- Yo, what about this visual effect here? - Look at the colors.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

And the color of this, Tunde, this was done in-camera, wasn't it?

Yeah, this was all done in-camera with the infrared chip.

- Really? - We took our camera and we modified it

and put an infrared chip in there.

And so, basically, all those leaves in real life are green or red.

- And the chip makes them look pink. - Wow.

And that sequence was fascinating

because we actually shot it in two and a half hours,

the infrared sequence.

And, you know, that only happened because the cast shows up totally rehearsed,

prepped, ready to go, on point.

Stunt players show up totally rehearsed, ready to go.

And we were a well-oiled machine at that point.

- And then there's this fire sequence. - Oh, my gosh! This is one of my favorites.

It's so... Like, we had...

In the cut, I just wanted this to go on three times as long, because...

Oh, man. Yeah.

- Look at that. - And it was real, real fire.

It was real hot.

Like, you would have to step out after each take

because it would get hard to breathe from the smoke.

- Yeah, it was... - That was also done in the parking lot.

It was also done in the parking lot.

Yeah, it was about 100 yards from where the rain scene was done.

This one fell on the same day.

They were two separate days, but get this.

- This is a good question. - Right. Of course.

The rain scene was only done on the second half of the day.

- We only had seven hours to shoot it... - Yes.

...and the fire scene was also done on the second half of the day.

Wow.

Think of, like, what the crew was doing.

I can only imagine.

Yes, that one big day.

And I gotta big-up Anita who was Eve's stuntwoman

and Attiphah Moulton-Davis, who was my stuntwoman,

because they really showed up and showed out

in, you know, where they did come in.

Of course, me and Eve did a lot of it.

But they did an amazing job with what they did do.

And yeah, we were all, again,

like, just looking around at each other, like, what are we doing?

Like, we talk about going above, like, going bigger.

We went big and went home with the season in general.

But it's like you said, Tunde, we really challenged ourselves,

and we put all of our, you know,

collective knowledge and skill and experience together

and said, "Let's go higher. Let's go further.

Let's reach." And we did, and then we did it.

We ended up doing it.

One of the things I love most about this entire team

is that there's never a time where something is presented

and anyone says, "It's too hard. We can't do it."

The answer is always, "Okay. How do we do that?

- And how do we make it safe?" - Yeah.

"But how do we make it epic and awesome,

and bigger than we even think it can be done?"

- Right. - Yeah.

I think that fire sce... Didn't we get... Didn't we get a call for a...

Like, didn't someone call in from a plane or something?

- The fire department? - Yeah, from the... from the...

Yeah, from the main city, from downtown.

Yeah, downtown.

Yeah, and they thought that there was a massive fire happening,

you know, down by the river over there.

Yeah, and the fire department showed up

and was gonna shut us down and then they realized there was a permit

and that it was safe and, you know, we showed them the things

- and it was okay, you know. - Right.

Look at these two absolutely brilliant actors.

- Yeah. - Look at that one over there.

Who's that guy that's in the scene?

Ajala.

Who's that brilliant actor?

- Look at these men. - There he is again.

- Look at Blu. I tell you... - Big-up, Blu.

- The talent... The talent and the craft. - Yes.

- Yeah. - It just worked with all of you.

- It really does. - Yeah.

And the camera work, the camera movement, the directing,

- just a shout-out to that too. - Yeah.

Like, there's so much energy

in what all of you are doing in every scene

and in the emotion and intensity

and attention that you're giving to one another

and to what's happening in the story.

And, you know, all of that is highlighted by Tunde,

what you and your team are doing with the camera and the movement of it,

and where you're putting it, and just the slight motion back and forth.

It all... And it comes together in just a really, really wonderful way.

Yeah. The camera team led by Phil Lanyon was exquisite.

And Michael Carr is the operator behind the lens here.

It takes a lot, because...

when the actors are outputting this much,

you need someone behind the lens that isn't going to miss it, right?

And is gonna be in tune with what's happening emotionally.

Because I'm an emotional-based director,

it all comes from, what emotion am I trying to put in the audience's mind

in the moment where maybe it didn't exist before.

And every inch matters.

And it's really comforting to have someone that's handling those lights

and someone who's behind that camera,

who is in sync with what the cast is doing.

Yeah, I feel like when... when there isn't, like...

I've, you know, seen things before where just, there hasn't been that sync

and as an audience member, I'm noticing what the camera is doing...

and it kind of pulls me out.

And so, one of the things I love about you and the way you direct

and this team and all the directors that we have

is that it always feels of a piece with the story.

And I'm never just kind of noticing something just to notice it.

It all feels very organic to what's happening emotionally.

I mean, like, look at this. It's great.

It's so alive.

And I gotta big-up our new bridge,

like, family members, Christina and Victoria and Natalie and Zahra,

because they came in...

they came in, you know, sort of, or toward the tail end, at least.

And they had a big job ahead of them

to come into this, you know, fully functioning machine.

This family... Of course, we welcome them as family,

and they were quickly family.

And they just... they just... they sank right in,

- did they not? - Yeah.

It's like they didn't miss a beat.

I was really grateful for all of them for that.

- Yeah. - It's no easy thing.

I mean, we're watching it and, you know, as an audience member,

the bridge is moving and it's shaking and there's things...

Yes!

But for you guys in the cast, that's all just... that's camera movement.

But for a new actor coming in, there are explosions happening,

there's smoke, there's Tunde saying, "Go... Go left. Go right!"

Right. Exactly.

And out of... just starting off,

they have to be able to incorporate all of that into their performance

and... and remember lines and remember, you know, what they're doing

and it's no small task.

That's right.

It's quite a thing to jump into.

And Callum, you know,

here we are again with yet another brilliant actor

who came in and, you know, made such a mark on the story,

and on the show.

You know, it was really nice to see him settle in as well.

Because even as his character was settling in, you know,

he had his own version of that too.

And so, especially in the scenes in the finale,

you can really see him, like, shining, which we love.

It's really cool.

You're right. You know, what's been said about...

if you just look at even the bridge and what Special Effects does and it looks...

it's beautiful and it's almost effortless,

but it's hard to be at that level

and be safe in such a small room, essentially, with these explosions.

I'm just curious. What is it like, as an actor, to be in a room like the bridge,

have multiple explosions going off,

you've got people all around...

Yo, I'll say this. I'll say something quick,

'cause, David, I really wanna hear what you have to say too.

It's exciting.

You know, like, that's, like, the main word I can think of.

It's so kinetic and dynamic and exciting

and yes, you gotta be on top of it, right?

But there is something so exciting and fulfilling about that.

I can only imagine for... Rachael, we love her so much.

And I can only imagine what it's like for somebody like Doug

who also has to do all of that behind all of that rubber and latex

and imbue all that life in the midst of these circumstances,

in the midst of these explosions,

with the lines... with the charac...

with the life of the character and everything.

It's, like, he's a master.

And even David Tomlinson as well with Linus, you know,

the fact that they're able to do it through all of the prosthetic...

it's just... it's really phenomenal,

but it's a lot of fun.

You will be better.

You cannot not improve from being thrown into that scenario.

I'm so happy you said that.

I couldn't agree more.

I think it makes you a better actor overall.

Piggybacking off of what Sonequa was saying,

is you really have to embrace it all.

Yeah.

But then, trust in the camera work

and the environment to do the work

and not play what's being presented on the camera.

I really try to lean into the micro moments

when doing these scenes on the bridge

when we have explosions and there's a lot going on.

Dare I say, I think it made it easier as an actor to do my job

because there was less to have to reproduce, recreate all around me.

Trusting the... trusting in the simplicity of it

was definitely my way to navigate it all

and also not taking anything for granted.

Tunde said, "Every inch matters." I agree.

Every inch matters

and every moment is worth holding and releasing.

Jumping off of what you both said,

a huge shout-out to Darcy and our Special Effects team

because they're the ones who, you know, set all of that up

so that... and always make sure it's safe,

so that you guys can do what you do and they're awesome.

I gotta second that, you know.

Darcy has had five seasons of awesomeness.

Yeah.

That DNA is spreading to the other Star Trek shows as well,

and, you know, his number two on the floor there, Greg,

who's just been fantastic, you know...

our well-being is in his hands every day

that the things are happening.

And they're the glue, Special Effects.

You have visual effects. It's a visual effects show, visually.

And then you've got special effects. That's the glue.

They're used in every single scene,

whether it be atmo here on the AR wall

to help blend the digital with the reality,

or whether it be the explosions on the bridge or the fire planet,

you know, they're always present in some way or another.

For this scene here, Tunde, can you remind me how many flowers...

We had to order those flowers way in advance.

- We had 35,000 flowers. - Thirty-five thousand.

- What? - Yeah, and remember,

that was one of those moments when we said we needed flowers

and we were expecting, "Well, we can't possibly get that many flowers."

And they...

What Doug said...

Doug, Production Design, said, "Leave it with me. I'll figure it out."

- You know? - Yeah.

And it was like...

Oh, my goodness.

When and how...

How did you...

Where do you get 35,000 flowers from?

- I wish I knew. - They grew them in the parking lot.

No, I'm just kidding.

They found a house somewhere overseas,

and, remember, Michelle, they were like,

"Okay, you have to choose what color you want

and what type you want by this specific day

if we're gonna be able to have them in time to be able to test them

and be able to put them in the movie."

- Wow. - And it was so far in advance.

I think we were still in the process of designing the set at that point,

but we had to land on the flower color.

That's right. Yeah, it was before we had an actual concept

- that we had to pick. - Yeah.

Yeah.

- Wow. - Wow.

But that's the thing about this team, is, you know, if we need something,

the bar is so high, but it's never impossible, you know?

Yeah.

Everyone always finds a way and does it.

Yeah. Right.

Everybody shows up and shows out every time.

Such a wonderful gift to be able to do the audio,

'cause as I'm learning so much,

our fans and family who are listening to this...

They get these very rich insights.

I was just gonna say briefly,

they just did a shot of L'ak, and that's not actually Elias in there.

That's a double.

But with the facial prosthetic, it looks exactly like him.

- Wow. - Wow. Yeah.

You sneaky, you.

Yeah.

By the way, this isn't Eve.

No, I'm just kidding. It's actually Eve.

It's actually you.

Oh, man.

Shout-out to her here and you, Sonequa,

and David and all of our actors

because, you know, we have concepts for what some of these things might look like,

but all of you have to act against something that is pretend in the moment,

and you don't have the final visual effects in your head.

And to be able to do that

with just an artistic rendering of what it's eventually gonna look like,

and then have it be so seamless once the visual effects go in,

it's always just phenomenal to me

the way you all do that and bring it to life.

I have a question about that.

I think Props were showing you, Sonequa,

the shape that the triangles needed to be in.

And then the report I got back was,

"She interrupted me while showing her, and she figured it out.

She just figured it out on her"... So for you, the triangle...

I've been wanting to ask you this for a year now. Was it, like, no big deal?

Like, was it...

It was funny 'cause when we tried it, we could barely figure it out.

It was always a thing,

and we were like, "Okay, if we can barely figure it out,

we gotta figure out, like, how is she gonna do it on camera?"

You know what I mean?

So when you just came and you just...

That is so funny, and I did not even remember that.

Mario is our brilliant props master. Been with us from day one.

And, you know, he probably just really explained it real good

and kind of set me up for success.

Probably what happened.

'Cause it was never a thing.

'Cause we always obsess over the things that could be things, right?

Yeah.

It was really interesting to me that that was not a thing, you know?

- You just came in and did it, you know? - Yeah.

And thank you also for letting me do that Vulcan meditation pose

to get into it.

I always wanted to, like, throw in little Vulcan things here and there,

and you graciously let me throw that one in there.

I was like, "Let's call back the Vulcan just for a second."

Awesome.

I'm just gonna do one quick shout-out to one of our writers

and co-EPs on the show, Alan McElroy,

who's wonderful and has been on the show...

like, he's a Star Trek guy and such a science head.

And he was the one who suggested the basis for the design of that...

it's a Mandelbrot... I think is how it's pronounced.

And the design of the thing... the portal, basically...

I will get it wrong if I try to explain it,

so just look up Mandelbrot.

But it's a really cool shape,

- and there's some significance to it. - Yes.

And it's just such a cool...

that, like, that became the basis for what this portal looks like

and the way it overlaps kind of on each other in a really neat way.

That's beautiful. There's some...

That's especially beautiful.

We love Alan so much.

I also feel like he did such a phenomenal job

on episode 2 of this season.

I mean, all the episodes that he wrote, but especially episode 2...

it really touched me... from this final season.

But the Mandelbrot has this divinity to it as well,

which is so apropos for this season.

So that is so dope, that he...

- Yeah. - ...that he came up with that.

I love that.

I was just gonna say to you guys as compliment...

or thank you for that.

I was just looking at everybody like Orville and Patrick

and Mary and just...

I think a big part of it... David, I know you would agree with me...

like you said, every single moment counts, and us being able to, you know...

us being able to imagine this life with each other...

it makes such a difference,

and it really settles us.

It cements us in the authenticity of this world,

that we're in this wild, imagined life together, you know?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

- I always felt very held. - Yes!

I just felt very well supported, you know?

And even when I've mentioned something,

they always encouraged us to just aim high.

It felt completely supportive in every moment.

And also, as well,

listen, there were some days when playing these scenes,

I was thinking, "What the heck am I doing? This is wild.

It's not making any sense."

This is happening and that's happening,

and the absurdity of it all, I find hilarious.

Hilarious.

- It is. - Ridiculous.

I love the challenge of that,

just trusting and letting go

and just immersing yourself with what's in front of you,

or not in front of you.

Doug Jones.

Action Saru.

- Action Saru. - Saru right there.

By the way, I also wanna say,

one of the things, among the many, that we all love about you, Sonequa...

I'm just gonna give some love your way

and just say I really appreciate

how you always appreciate every single person,

every single cast member, our crew.

Like, I notice as we're going through this commentary,

you're making a point to point out everyone and their contributions.

And that's just really lovely.

It's one of the...

Like, that generosity of spirit just in this

and in the way you are with everybody on set...

you're just honestly a dream to work with,

and we love you, and I just love that about you.

That's who you are.

Michelle...

Thank you for saying that. Praise God.

That's so...

I think you're gonna make her cry, Michelle.

I know. Look. I know.

- I do not want to cry. - We should turn the video on.

Let's turn the video on.

But it's true. Like, you know, we're going through this commentary,

and you're noting everyone,

because everyone does contribute and, you know,

that's a really wonderful thing to notice and comment on

and notice what everyone brings to it.

And that's just lovely.

And you do that with everyone on the set.

Absolutely.

That is the truth.

It makes a difference... makes a difference, right?

When people come to work every day

and they know that that consistency is there.

Yeah.

It changes... It changes everything.

Because we've all been in situations where it's not there,

- you know... - Yeah.

...on different shows that we've been a part of

over our careers, right?

And that's hard. Now, the shows are hard.

Movies... Television shows are hard to make as they are

just normally, right?

And... But when you have a leader who is making everybody feel at home

and who actually cares about what everyone is going through,

and who they are as people,

it changes... it changes everything.

Absolutely.

Thank you all so much. It was... I was blessed to do it.

I... God really blessed me and...

and it was such an honor too, you know.

Like, this group of people, man.

It was so easy, you know,

and that's also not something we experience very often, right?

Yeah.

But, yeah, everybody... It's just a phenomenal group of people.

But thank you, guys.

My absolute privilege and joy to be a part of this journey with you guys.

- Yeah. - Truly, truly. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. It's a long journey, you know, that we've been on.

And you know, it's...

What was so unique for me in this journey was,

you know, meeting Alex for the first time.

And, you know, we actually met in a bathroom for the first time.

And it's a funny, funny story. I'll save it for another... another time.

But what I really appreciated

was just this creating... him creating a space

where we all felt like we could do our biggest and most epic work,

whatever that may be.

Because often in television and in movies, it's very rare

that you're able to reach for the stars and say anything is possible.

And so to have an environment that was created,

and a universe that was created, that allowed us to do that type of thing,

was just, you know...

This is... It's a once-in-a-lifetime experience and...

and to merge that with Trek, you know, and he...

and he wrote the reboot of Trek. It came out in the movies, you know.

It's quite a universe that... that he allowed us to come play in.

Yeah.

Well said, Tunde. He's an absolute visionary.

He is way more brilliant than a lot of people even understand,

and the way he brought cinema to our iteration especially.

And I just... I just... I ditto. I ditto everything you said.

Also speaking from... speaking from, like...

speaking about leading from kindness as well, you know.

Such an inspiring...

He was such an inspiring leader as well, just like the two of you.

Yeah, I remember watching him over the years in certain times

and just being... just being floored by what he's capable of,

and, you know, by what he... what he poured in here into our story.

Yeah. Sonequa, you were saying that he's more brilliant than people know.

He really is and he's... he's so kind, like, he's...

he's kind and generous and thoughtful

and he's, you know, like all of you, like everyone on the show,

he's someone who wants to lift up those around him

and create opportunities and, you know,

he created an opportunity for me to come in and do this,

and it's been just the best experience.

I mean, I just... I'm so grateful for it.

He's really just a wonderful mentor, friend, human being, colleague,

all the things.

Oh, my goodness.

So true.

And here's our Progenitor. Here she is.

That's Somkele, I think.

If I butcher her name I apologize, Somkele.

Yeah, she came in and killed it from the start.

Her audition was just bonkers, you know, like,

she was this character from the get-go.

She... If I remember correctly,

she was actually supposed to be a different character. Originally.

She was cast as something, I think, in season 4,

and then for whatever reason couldn't end up doing it.

But we remembered her audition, and we remembered her as an actor

just being incredible.

And so when it came time to cast the Progenitor,

I remember just being, "Oh, well, it's got to be her."

- That's right. - Yeah.

- So full of grace and... - Yeah.

...and regality.

That's, like, that's it.

Like, she has to carry this, like, the weight of the character

and the years and the role.

And it's all right there in her eyes. It's really...

And you can see her eyes

beneath all the prosthetics that she had to sit through.

That's right. That's right.

And Anthony Tran, our new costume designer,

you know, there at the tail end after...

he was beloved, so brilliant...

after our beloved and brilliant Gersha Phillips left, you know.

He did such a beautiful job here too with her,

- I mean, with all of us... - Yeah.

...but with her too.

You just... You just see it, you feel it, you get it.

And our... And shout-out to our prosthetics team,

Glenn and his team,

with, like, taking the original, like, idea for the Progenitors,

and then updating it a little bit

and just, I mean, all the prosthetics all the way around, you know,

that brings our nonhuman creature... people... species to life.

Yeah, because it's... You know, the prosthetics are... work on two fronts.

On the first front, the... it's the actor's ability

to act beneath all of that silicone and make it come to life

and having to sometimes overact in order to get it to come out.

And Doug has...

has taught me a lot about what goes on underneath that...

underneath that rubber.

It's quite... It's quite impressive.

And then on the other front,

the prosthetics have to be able to allow the actors to emote

while also looking like the alien species that we want them to look like.

And I think Glenn has just been masterful over the years for us with that...

- Yeah. - ...in being able to find that balance

and that flexibility within the makeup.

Yeah. And it does take really just special actors to be able to do that.

Somkele, Doug, of course, Elias...

- David. - ...David. Yeah.

Just all of our actors under all of that

- to be able to bring out the characters. - Yeah.

And then Hannah Cheesman and Sara Mitich who were both Airiam.

- Them too. - Yes.

And then obviously Mary Chieffo and Shazad with the, you know,

way back in our early days, they played Klingons.

It's like, man, people don't realize how difficult what they do really is.

Like, a lot of... Like you said, it takes a special actor.

A lot of actors would just simply not be able to do it.

It's a big part of the reality, isn't it?

Because, like, we're dealing with stuff that...

it's sci-fi, it doesn't exist.

And, you know, sci-fi is an allegory for real life,

but it's not real until we look at these faces

- and they tell us it's real, right? - Yeah.

No matter what you do, like, it all comes back down...

the gravity, the way it all works... it comes back down to their performance,

and how believable they're making that performance in the moment.

Yeah. And the actor who plays Grudge.

Oh, Grudge.

Yeah. I mean...

That day I found out there were two Grudges...

That's the funniest.

- That's still one of my favorite stories. - That was too funny.

Yeah. Yeah.

If you haven't heard it, I'll repeat it here, you know,

which was, you know, we were ha...

Grudge was acting up one day,

and I was trying to get Grudge to do a particular thing

on set with David,

and it just wasn't happening.

Grudge was not listening to the director,

and... and then... and then the wrangler says,

"Well, how about if we use the other one?"

And I'm, "What are you talking about, the other one?"

"Yeah, his brother," you know, I'm like...

And then David comes out

and David was like, "Yeah. Why don't you use the other one?"

So David knew the whole time there were two.

Wasn't this season 4?

Like, we had had Grudge all of season 3

and now we're halfway into season 4 when you find out.

- Yeah. - It was Leeu and Durban.

- I remember their names. - Oh, my gosh, how do you remember that?

Yo, because Leeu was the older brother who didn't want to be there.

- And Durban was sweet and, you know... - More chilled, yeah.

- Oh, my gosh. - David...

David took a lot of... took a lot of heat from Leeu.

Listen, listen. And my heart is still open.

Oh, man, that cat works on me sometimes.

- Seriously. - I love this moment between them.

- I love all their moments. - Yeah.

I mean, goodness, Mary is just one of the most...

one of the most exceptional actors I've ever... I've ever worked with.

Yes. 100%.

She can... She can do anything.

Agreed.

But I love how their dynamic...

specifically Rayner and Tilly...

I love how their dynamic grew and changed and...

over the course of the season.

It was really fun...

Episode 4 of this season, in particular, I thought was really cool.

When you were talking about Mary... Just watching her play,

who she was in season 1 versus now.

And you. Who you were in season 1 versus who you are now.

All the characters, really.

And it just was such a, like... It was such a fascinating thing

to watch you as actors go back at, and then play where you are now.

Yeah.

David, I gotta ask.

So, the last season your planet blew up. Your home world blew up.

This... This season, you know, that didn't quite happen,

but obviously it's still in the history of your character.

Like, you know, what was the biggest difference

you would say... if there was any... between working these two seasons?

Yeah, that's a great question, Tunde.

I feel shooting season 5

and that journey for Cleveland Booker,

I think it was just...

You realize that even though this is someone dealing with...

an immeasurable amount of grief,

he also realizes how blessed he is to be afforded a second chance.

And I think when he's offered that invitation,

I think he grabs it with dear, dear life.

I don't know. I think that there's a lot...

Everyone at one point in their journey, every character in the show,

- has been given a second chance. - Yes.

And, you know, to see someone "fall from grace,"

be afforded a second chance to just be the better version,

the best version of himself... not the perfect version of himself,

but the most authentic version of himself...

I think is a very special thing to witness on screen.

And I enjoyed, maybe... I'm not sure if that's the right word.

I felt very privileged to be given that blessing to tell that story.

It was a blessing to watch you tell that story, David.

I just... I just have to say, like, I... You know, I big you up all the time.

You probably are tired of it at this point.

I big you all up all the time.

- But, man... - No, no, no.

I would just have to say, like,

there's just such a... such a wild freedom to you as Book.

But then there's also this quiet wisdom.

But then there's also this, like, brightness and this charm,

and that is a lot to encapsulate in one person.

And so it's been such a blessing to watch you

and to be in the story with you

and just witness, you know, your art...

- That's so lovely. - ...because it's...

it's really exceptional as well.

- Thank you, SMG. - Well said.

- Thank you. - Yeah.

It's a real... It's a real privilege.

I said it earlier, you know, just in terms of the...

this work... not even the work,

but just the specificities of character journeys

that we're able to embark on as actors

- are so very, very fulfilling, you know. - Yes.

And getting, like... Sonequa, for yourself, with Michael Burnham, that is a character

that's constantly evolving from season to season to season.

And I won't even call it reinventing the wheel,

but it's just trusting in the process

that these characters are so well fleshed out

that they will constantly be able to be rebirthed.

So true. And that's all... that's big-ups to Michelle.

Michelle, I mean, you know, you led the way with that

- and you... you put, you know... - 100%.

...you took the pen out of your heart and put it to paper,

and you led our wonderful, you know, writing team just...

You know, we talked a lot about character evolution

being a cornerstone of our show.

And it is very much because of you, because of your vision,

because of your heart, you know.

You lead with kindness as well, Michelle.

And you just... you live the lives of all of these people, and you can tell.

You can tell that you do.

And, you know, it's... We just... We're really grateful for you

for giving us the opportunity to be these people,

and to have this kind of, like David was saying,

this... to have this, like, fulfilling work to do, you know,

to bring to life.

- Yeah, that's why... - And it's meant as much...

Sorry, Tunde. Please.

I was gonna say that that's well said, and, you know, these shows are...

as we've talked about before... very difficult to make

and very difficult to get these shows up on their feet in the beginning seasons.

And it was a wonderful thing when Michelle became showrunner,

for all of us, because the show stabilized and smoothed out.

And we were getting these incredible stories

and the chaos that can often accompany

a large show just smoothed out,

and became... It was a smooth-running train.

As smooth as a show this size can be and as smooth as filmmaking can be,

because we all know what filmmaking is at its base.

But it was a smooth-running train when Michelle came aboard

and did her thing.

And, essentially, you know, I'm a... I love... I love sports, you know.

She led us to the Super Bowl. She led us to the championship.

- She led us to victory. - Yeah.

- And it's... It's just... - Wow.

It's just that period when you came in that I'll always remember and be like,

yeah, you know, that's... that's where she stepped aboard.

- Round of applause, Michelle. - Well done.

Thank you.

We're trying... We're also trying to make you cry.

It doesn't take a lot.

How do you like that?

Yes, Tunde, your moment is coming, don't you worry.

- Just to change the subject... - And as for the show...

Go for it, David.

No, we're... With the show, you know,

we deal with heavy themes, you know.

And from creating these stories

and fleshing out the storytelling and making it impactful,

making it relevant,

we have a lot of fun, you know, and it's a testament to your characters.

You know, like Michelle, yourself, I have very specific relationships

and different relationships with you all, which I value so wonderfully,

because they feel very personal and unique.

And I love the banter, Michelle.

The jokes that I say to you that go over your head,

jokes you say to me that go over my head.

I mean, sometimes they land and it's hilarious.

But it's just our little thing that we have.

And then with Tunde, the banter and camaraderie that we have.

SMG.

And I just... I love the natural levity that you all bring as artists

to the work we do.

I think that buoyancy is what really allows us to fly.

- Thank you for that. - Right back at you.

I have a question actually, for both you, Michelle, and Tunde.

That sequence that we just came out of, that victory

that was slowed down for us, like, for both of you,

did it exceed your expectations, Michelle,

when you were putting pen to paper and leading your team, our writers?

And then, I know you said you cowrote this with Kyle...

Is it Jarrow or Jaarrow?

- I've never known. - Jarrow.

Yeah, it's Jarrow. He's awesome.

When y'all were... Yes, he is.

And when y'all were cowriting this and then, Tunde,

when you were getting your, you know, getting your shot selection

figured out in your mind, it's like, did it exceed your expectations

with the way it turned out?

The whole episode, but then especially this sequence.

Like, coming up to our, you know... us being victorious.

Yeah, I have to say, I mean...

Here's where... Here's where Tunde is going to get his, now, to...

- Here we go. - Here we go.

Yeah, I just... I don't ever want to do another show without Tunde,

and I don't say that jokingly.

I mean that quite seriously.

He's... You're brilliant. You're just brilliant.

And whatever... Like that is... That...

You were asking about that particular sequence.

It's such a... It's such an important sequence.

We didn't know at the time that it was going to, you know...

Of course, it's the culmination of this... the episode and the season

and it's gonna be, like, the final action, like, culmination victory event

of the series, actually.

And to go from that into the "Burnham as a kid,"

and going through all of time, like...

You know, you just... You need someone visionary

to be able to bring that to life.

And there's nothing Tunde has ever done

that hasn't exceeded what I thought it would be.

And I just thought that's so just typical Tunde,

just wonderful and beautiful and...

You know, it just... it...

Every time I just stop whatever I'm doing and watch

and, you know... I know what's gonna happen...

- Right! - I stop and watch.

And the fact that Tunde, he's...

You're just... You're one of those rare, rare directors

who... you can do all the things.

And in doing the action, you also lead with the heart and gumption.

And that's... You don't always feel that in action sequences.

Action sequences in particular,

I think it's easy to lose the heart because, you know,

someone is so focused on what the shot is gonna be

or the, you know, the big fight thing,

but you never lose what the moment is about.

And so it feels exciting and heart-blowing at the same time.

Heart-blowing isn't a word. It's not...

That's how we would describe Tunde though.

That heart-blowing is what he is in general.

Heart-exploding, I think is what I meant.

But, you know. Heart-blowing is okay too. Anyway.

You're wonderful.

- You're the best. - Yeah, thanks for all that.

I appreciate that.

Yeah, it...

Yeah, I mean, and you almost made me cry, but, you know...

But I would... Did the sequence exceed my expectation?

It did because everybody working on the sequence exceeded my expectations.

I mean, I just... It's...

It's a really emotional thing, I think,

directing when you care about something so much

and you realize that the people you're working with

care about it just as much as you do.

Often directors will find themselves in situations

where they feel very isolated and lonely that they're the only ones who care

as much as they do about a particular project,

and everyone else kind of just wants to go home.

And while we all need to go home and that's understandable,

I mean, we all have those feelings,

it really felt like everybody...

and we didn't know this was going to be our last episode...

it really felt like everybody was really giving it everything,

as I mentioned before.

But it's all of the simple things.

It's the stuff in the shuttle, you know.

I did not expect the stuff in the shuttle to be as emotionally poignant as it was,

both with Saru and Nhan,

and with David and Wilson.

That stuff, it just sang.

You know, it's the stuff with the Progenitor.

I knew... Just because the script was so good

and the dialogue was so good in that scene...

I knew it was going to be good.

But I did not expect to feel the emotions that I felt

while Sonequa and Somkele were playing those roles.

And then the stuff on the bridge.

You know, we had... we've had a lot of bridge stuff over the years.

The difference was that we had Callum there.

And I thought he did a brilliant job.

And again, I did not expect the relationships and the interplay

between everybody on the bridge to be as poignant as it was.

And so, yeah, I think it did exceed my expectations for sure.

I piggyback what Michelle said, and I'll say this quick,

it's just a few other things.

But yeah, everything exceeds expectations with you.

And it's because of you. It's because of the genius you bring.

It's not just genius, you know, intellectually,

you know, or artistically, it's also genius emotionally.

Like Michelle was saying, it's like,

we could not have been who we were as Star Trek: Discovery without you.

I mean, absolutely not.

- You really carried us. - Yeah.

You just carried us the whole way through.

You carried us and you lifted us

- every single time, every single day. - Yes.

And we're so blessed to have had you.

And this scene right here...

I was gonna speak on this scene a moment ago too,

with Adira and Stamets, because it was so beautiful.

Like, it was this beautiful culminating moment

with the brilliant Anthony and the brilliant Blu.

And such a nice, like, button on their, you know,

father, child/adult relationship.

But this moment too.

I really loved this connection with Book and Moll

that came...

It's like it came out of nowhere, but it made perfect sense.

It was really nice to see, though. That's why I've said a lot of times...

We've all said that this is such a culminating season,

even though we didn't know that it was the end.

It seems like it is.

Because there's so many ribbons tied around storylines

and character dynamics and relationships

that it's just beautiful and it's such... in such a beautiful way.

Yeah, David, I love the way you played that particular scene with her.

It just... It was so lovely.

It was so simple and so lovely and it felt real.

- Thank you, Ms. Paradise. - Felt true.

- Thank you. - Yeah, that's a good way...

And we got... We got Raven there for a second, Doctor Pollard, who...

Yes.

- Little shout-out to Raven from y'all. - Yeah, shout-out.

Absolutely.

We love her so much.

- Yeah. - Yes, we do.

And there's the other Raven as well who came on as a writer for...

- Oh, yeah! - Yes.

- You know that guy. - Right, right.

I know that guy.

Oh, yeah. We know that guy.

We know him.

That's Cronenberg.

- Yeah. - Oh, my gosh.

He's so... He's so...

I love the way he plays this character.

- Yeah. - He's so...

Like, I'm always leaning in because I feel like he's always

- got a secret... or five. - Yeah.

Yeah, well, when I'm directing him, I'm always thinking,

"Man, I'm directing a living legend."

Like, ""What's he think about the camera going here?"

He's probably like, "Oh, you've got too many cameras, son."

You know, stick to one camera.

What's his inner monologue, you know?

But he's always... But he seems to just be in it, right?

He's just in it. He's in the scene and he's directable and...

Prepared.

You know, I love this... I love this moment between you two.

Yeah.

I do too.

It was such a joy to work with him and just sit and listen to him.

He was just so gracious and kind and funny.

Yeah. All of the things. Yeah.

Yeah.

My only regret is that I wasn't able to pick his mind more about directing.

You know, like that's...

I really wanted to... I'd really love to know what he thinks

and what his philosophy is.

And he was right there, and, you know, things happen on set.

I wasn't able to access that knowledge.

Disco movie.

Oh, my goodness, that woman right there.

- Tara. - Tara.

- They're kissing! - Tara Rosling.

Also one of the most exceptionally brilliant actors I've ever seen in...

I mean, we all would just, like... Would we not, David?

We, like... We would just marvel at her.

Absolutely.

By the way, Tunde and Frakes had to... had to arm wrestle

over who was going to get the kiss in their episode.

- Right. - Frakes wanted them to...

Really?

He wanted that kiss really bad.

I wanted it more.

- You won. - Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, man.

Yeah. Look at the... It's like king and queen,

you know what I'm saying? Like, man, just, stellar artists and just...

I love this relationship so much.

That's such a... I've told this story before,

but that's one of the amazing, wonderful things about casting is

you just never know the magic that's going to come.

And, you know... And she came in

for episode 307, which, when we were writing that

we needed, you know, that character.

We were initially just thinking of it as that episode, that character.

And then she and Doug had just such a spark as actors

and those characters, that we just thought,

well, we just need to bring her back

because now we need to see what's gonna happen.

And T'Rina ended up becoming such a big part of all of this.

Oh, Oded.

Oh, goodness. How much do we love him?

- He really... - Yeah, what a guy.

Talk about real and true and raw and weighted, and...

I just... I adore his work on... and him as well.

What a lovely man.

He is.

I feel like we've cast all of the characters

as leaders that we would want to be our actual leaders...

- Yes! - ...in the world.

That's such a great way to describe it, Michelle.

Yeah, everybody is just... I just...

It's just... It's phenomenal

to be able to watch all of these people do what they do

and learn from them.

I also gotta big-up Teresa Buccione who was the head of our hair department

here at the tail end of Discovery.

And Craig-Ryan French, head of our makeup department,

- but the... - Yes.

Right? Because look, we really went in on these intricate, like, styles,

these, like, Black, ethnic, African-inspired styles.

- I was so happy to do it. - Right?

Yeah.

Beautiful.

Yeah, it was interesting what you guys were saying about... about the cast.

And, you know, growing up watching Star Trek,

I always felt like, okay... I was going through my own thing as a kid and...

But the people on Star Trek would be my friends.

Like I... Like on TNG,

like, I could see myself, like, hanging out with them, you know,

or going on adventures with them.

And what was wonderful about Discovery is I think that got achieved again

for the next generation, or for people like...

I believe that I could hang out and be friends with them, you know,

and that they would be good people, you know, and accept me.

I think... I hope... I hope that there's people watching who feel the same way.

Yeah. Me too.

- This... - This is such a...

This... Look how be... Oh, sorry, Michelle.

No, I was just... I was gonna say it's beautiful.

I'm not gonna have Tunde tell the story of the sun,

but I will say it was very cold this day, very cold.

- You two were troupers, by the way. - It was very cold.

Both of you out there acting as though you're just perfectly comfortable...

- Right? Right? - ...and it's freezing and below.

- Yeah, the runny noses. - This is some acting right here.

Teary eyes. I remember that.

Me and David have been through the elements, man.

- But yeah, it was fro... - Yeah.

We were trying so hard not to let our teeth chatter.

- Yeah. - Yeah.

You guys did a great job. You wouldn't know.

- No. - Yes.

Yeah, it was okay...

Didn't we start this at, like, 5:00 in the morning?

Yeah.

The moment the cast is called,

- people are coming out with jackets. - Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, like those warm coats.

We... I had the HotShots everywhere.

Yeah.

So directors, film students watching, just remember that

when you go into the elements, it's easy to forget...

because you're just, you're intent on the image...

But when you go into the elements,

you and the crew can put layers upon layers, upon layers on

to keep yourselves warm indefinitely through the day, right?

There's no excuse not to be at least sort of warm through the day.

I mean, there's a couple of excuses.

But the cast, they got to wear what they gotta wear on camera,

so they're exposed, you know, so it's just something to think about.

Not only getting them out there, but what's the whole logistics

around trying to keep them warm?

And there's gonna be some success rates

and some that are not so successful in accomplishing that.

But it's something that a lot of thought needs to go into

when you... when you shoot in the elements.

One thing about this scene here...

Because we didn't know it was gonna be our last season,

the shot coming up where they kind of walk off into the sunset

was originally going to be the end of the season.

And then we were gonna come back for another season.

When we found out that, much later...

We were editing, I think, episodes 8 and 9

at the time that we found out that this was gonna be our final season.

We had to go back.

And people have asked, did you have to change anything

earlier in the season to accommodate that?

And there was... There were really only, I think, one or two lines of dialogue

that we pulled from this particular scene,

about the Progenitor and what Burnham learned.

And she had a line that she said to Book about that,

that we then ultimately put in the next scene with the son,

and gave that to her to give to him.

That was really the only thing we had to change in this

to be able to make that work. But this was gonna be the last shot.

Yeah.

Phil, if you're listening to this, Phil, that was an amazing scene.

- Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Look at this. - It's beautiful.

It's beautiful.

- And then here we go. - It's my favorite.

Here it's gonna be... You guys are ending the season now.

What... What...

I can't watch this. I can't watch this.

I'm curious... What was it like to look...

I can't watch it.

What was it like to look in the mirror?

What was it like to look in the mirror with the...

He walked away! He's gone.

- Gone. - He keeps calling us...

Listen, I'm here, but I can't. I can't. My heart is too...

- Oh, no, no, I can't. - I know.

- I know, David can't really watch. - I can't.

So, I just remember... I remember seeing my mom

when I was looking in the mirror when I was, you know, working.

It was Nicola and Brandi who...

You know, we were together every day doing this.

I was so grateful to be able to do this on my way out.

I felt like the cool kid, and it was so...

Man, it was so lifelike and true.

And David and I both, we just could not have imagined

a sweeter gift to be given on the way out.

So, you know, I will just always be grateful

to you, Michelle, and everyone.

And you too, Tunde, for bringing it to life

and giving us the opportunity to...

Oh, my goodness...

show these people living happily ever after, basically.

I will be grateful to CBS Studios, Paramount+.

- They, you know... - Yes.

...to allow us to do this.

And, by the way, as we were prepping for this,

the writers' strike was coming up.

And so we knew that we had to shoot this before May 1st

because everyone wanted...

We didn't... No one knew for sure that there would be a strike,

but we knew that if there was one,

we were just not gonna have an opportunity to come back and shoot this.

So I think ultimately... Tunde, correct me if I'm wrong...

I think we ultimately had, like, seven weeks of prep,

or something like that, including these aging prosthetics and looks

that you and David have here,

and our whole team just knocked it out of the park.

Normally, we would have much longer to test these things

and... and they just did such a tremendous job.

I mean, you got... You both look beautiful.

Yeah, they... That was the... That was the challenge

that I thought Glenn pulled off was, how do you make 'em look older,

and yet beautiful and distinguished, right?

What's that balance in the alchemy?

Pardon the pun, because the name of his company is Alchemy.

But what's that alchemy in how thin or thick those prosthetics should be,

and I thought they did a great job with them.

And that and the hair and the makeup and just...

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was a team... As everything is, right?

As we've been saying, as we always say, you know,

- it was such a team effort. - Yeah.

Man.

- And it's hard. - It's...

I'm sorry, go on.

No, you go, you go.

I was just gonna say it was...

You know, you had said something a couple of years ago, Sonequa,

about when something emotional is going on in your life,

it affects your creative instrument.

And you have to work harder

to make sure your creative instrument's working in the right direction.

And that's what I was experiencing when I came back.

I actually didn't want to come back to do this, because I was...

I came up with all these reasons in my mind,

but really the main reason was how emotional I knew it would be.

And I don't like being that emotional, you know,

like to the point where my creative instrument is not working,

it's not functioning correctly,

where I have to keep checking myself and checking myself.

And things that would ordinarily be, instinctually, "This is how to do it,"

now take two or three times to get there.

And that was what I was experiencing while directing these.

That deer, I love that deer.

Me too, and the sound it makes.

Oh, my goodness, Sawan.

He looks like he could be your son.

The picture of the three of you together is just fantastic.

This is it.

And, you know, speaking of having a big job ahead of him,

like a lot of us, you know, do.

I mean, my goodness.

It's like, "Look. You're the legacy. You're the legacy bearer," you know?

That's the theme of this, right,

is the legacy of these characters and also of this ship and this crew.

And it's like, "You hold that."

And he just held it so well.

He was so brilliant and so kind and giving and engaged and fun

and everything you could have asked for and more.

And we just had a blast together,

and we bonded... all of us bonded with him so quickly and so easily

that it was super sad to say bye to him.

- It was as if he had always been with us. - Yeah.

David, are you still not watching?

Yeah, I can't. I can't.

I can't, but I'm here.

I'm listening to everything, but I can't.

He said, "I can't. I can't."

- I love it. - Nah, it's my heart.

- It's... Yeah. - I hear you.

It was such a joy filming this, but I can't watch it. I can't.

Yeah. I hear you.

You know, Tunde, something you said makes me think about

when you talk about the emotionality you might be going through in your life

and how it affects your creative instrument,

because I had a little bit of that too over the course of this season

from the storyline with the Progenitors and finding the technology and everything.

And I just remember, Michelle,

when you and I spoke about the season before we came in,

and you told me that, you know, what we would find

is that the Progenitors found this technology,

that they don't know where it came from.

I remember, you know, I was super grateful for that.

And it's another reason why it's amazing how everything ended up turning out...

this episode in particular... because it just continues to...

Even Burnham's captain's log,

it just leaves the door open for every kind of possibility.

And I love that we end it that way,

where it's like, "Hey, look, it can continue to look up and out.

It could be anything," you know?

Anything is still possible.

Thought that was beautiful.

That actually came from you, by the way.

'Cause when we pitched the season to you

at the very, very beginning, before...

Like, very early, we sort of pitched you the, "Here's where season 5 is going,"

and we talked about the Progenitors,

and I just remember you saying, "Well, they won't be the"...

I can't remember how you put it,

but it was, "They won't be the be-all, end-all," right?

Yeah. That's right.

And that really...

You saying that really struck me,

like, "Of course, they can't be the be-all, end-all." It has to be...

Like, you have to leave the many possibilities for all the things.

So that came, actually, out of that conversation with you

and honoring that with you.

And it felt very important.

And it's a hundred percent the right choice.

You wouldn't want to say that that was it

and that they were, you know, creators with a capital C,

because you wanna leave it open.

I didn't know that, Michelle.

Yeah.

I didn't know that.

Part of this... I think part of this conversation here

was originally between Burnham and Book,

that we thought of... that previous scene... to put it in with this.

This was...

This whole ending coda sequence

was really interesting in terms of figuring out how to do it,

'cause, you know, we had a limited time.

We knew we were gonna have three days to shoot.

Some of the sets were already gone.

We knew that we were only gonna be able to get certain actors,

and, logistically, getting everybody in the next scene

to be there on a particular day so we could have a goodbye.

And, you know, Kyle and Alex and I really just kind of worked through it,

and, you know, it was no small feat to try and figure it out.

But I really love what we came up with,

and then what you all do on the screen,

and Tunde bringing it to life, and everybody, you know?

It's everyone's passion bringing it all together.

I hope people feel really good about it when they finally watch this

and get to see the way it ends.

I love the way that last scene with Burnham and Leto was written,

and the fact that his name is Leto, it was just...

- Yeah. Yeah. - ...beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.

And now, of course, here they're taking off the A.

I think people will probably notice that the DOTs are taking off the A,

'cause we're about to... we have to make it match "Calypso,"

which was just the 1031

that didn't have an A when it went out there.

Look at that. Easter egg.

Easter egg, yeah.

Look at that great shot.

Wow. And I also, you know...

I'm a little bit ahead of it,

but I got to big-up Robinne, Robinne Fanfair,

who voiced Zora for us when we were there on set.

She had such an interesting process that I really respected

because she didn't watch, she just listened.

She would be in her chair with her headphones,

and she would just go off of...

It was just like a sort of audio experience for her,

because she felt that that was the case for Zora, and so...

or somehow she felt that it connected her more to Zora.

And then we have someone else who comes in.

So there's two people who are Zora essentially.

Yeah.

But she's the one who would voice for us when we were there in Toronto.

It was lovely to watch her work.

- Yeah, Annabelle is our Zora voice in... - Yeah.

And, yeah, Robinne... it was interesting that you mentioned that, Sonequa,

because I went to do a private blocking on a particular scene...

I forget which one it was...

and Zora was talking a lot in that particular scene.

And I tried to get Robinne to come and join the private rehearsal,

but she didn't want to.

And I was like...

And I wasn't sure about what that reluctance was.

Now you've just answered that question for me.

- So, you know, thank you for that. - Yeah.

Yeah. She felt like somehow it would help her

get into the sort of, you know, artificial mindset of Zora,

just having it be an audio experience.

She was so giving and there,

and I really felt, you know...

I really felt the life when I would be with her there in Toronto.

So I was grateful for her.

I love this part.

Tunde. It's a Tunde special.

Yeah.

Yeah, this was a difficult scene to shoot for a variety of reasons.

Not logistically or, you know... but just emotionally.

You wanna get it right, right?

- Yeah. - Yeah.

Yeah, you knocked it out of the park, Tunde.

Yeah.

And I love that everyone was able to come back.

Wilson was not, 'cause he was working on something

- at the time. - On the other side of the world.

Yeah.

But we were able to, through the magic of editing,

make it seem like he was there.

We had a great Wilson stunt double...

not stunt double, body double.

Stunt double.

Body double.

So as we come back here,

we'll see him, and he's not... that's not actually him.

I got to say, too, Michelle,

I know we appreciate CBS and Paramount+ for getting us up here,

but I also just have to say

that you just astounded me with this script for this coda.

Because, you know, I know you and Alex,

you were campaigning for us and fighting for us

and they were gracious to us,

but you did this in two minutes with two pages, you know,

and I will always be floored by what you were able to do.

- Thank you. - Yeah. Yeah.

So neat.

Emily and Oyin, oh, my goodness.

- There they are. - I'm so happy they were able... Tig.

I'm so happy so many people were able to come back.

I can't believe everyone got up there for it.

Most of 'em.

And there's Wilson sort of.

Yeah, that's the cut-in.

Wait, was... Who else was there?

Was someone else not there that day?

No, Ronnie though.

Ronnie came back, which was exciting too.

Well, Hannah and Sara weren't able to be there.

Yeah.

I love that we come out of that hug with her and Tilly.

It's like a foundational relationship on the show.

Yeah.

What was it like saying this?

Yeah, what was it like, Sonequa?

Y'all, it was so intense.

I love the way you delivered that.

- I just love it. - Thank you.

It's like you were saying, Tunde, man, there was just so much to feel.

We were feeling all the feels.

I mean, we worked so hard those three days.

We were sleep deprived and delirious, but we were just...

It's like I almost wouldn't have wanted it to be any other kind of way,

you know what I'm saying?

Like, we gave our all there at the end,

and I wanted to encapsulate every single moment

in that one "let's fly," right?

Which... That's impossible to do, but that was the desire of my heart.

So it was quite intense.

I know we did a few takes. I can't remember how many.

- And the spin out, you guys. - Yeah.

Yeah.

- I'm gonna cry. - I know!

Intense. It's intense. It's intense.

True.

I love y'all so much.

- Well done. Love you too. Love you all. - I miss you guys.

- Yeah. - I do. I miss y'all too.

- We just got to do it again, I guess. - Yep.

- Yes, we do. - It's done.

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