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-Hello.
-Hello, my friend.
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Can we start?
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Yes.
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In the early 1950s, you discovered an IDF
officer was acting as a double agent.
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- You mean Alexander Israeli.
- Exactly.
6
00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,720
Can you tell us what became of him?
7
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Alexander, who was a captain
in the Israeli Air Force,
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contacted the Egyptian embassy in Rome,
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and reached an agreement with them
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to supply them with documents
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about the IDF and the Air Force.
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In exchange,
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he'd...
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receive money.
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The moment we found out,
we used a trick to find him,
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then got him into a car in Paris,
driven by one of our guys,
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and from there
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we put him on a plane to Israel.
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They gave him a shot of something
in order to put him under,
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and it killed him.
21
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And then? Was there panic?
22
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,000
There wasn't any panic.
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Throughout my work at the Mossad,
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I don't recall
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anything resembling panic.
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Weren't you ever worried about
the whole story blowing up in your faces?
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Certainly. Look,
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if the story had been made public,
29
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our whole network of agents in Egypt
would have been exposed.
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00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,680
So the decision was made, justifiably,
to keep it a secret,
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and to disappear the body.
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So what did you do with the body?
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What did they do with the body?
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In the end,
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they threw it into the sea.
36
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You simply opened the hatch
and threw him into the sea?
37
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Exactly. Yes.
38
00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,680
And when you look back on it today,
39
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- aren't you bothered by...
- You think it should bother me?
40
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At the time, nothing done in the name
of completing my mission bothered me.
41
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,760
But you could have just buried him,
42
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and not reported that he'd been
detained and then buried.
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That's... a tactical consideration.
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As they say in Yiddish,
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"Could've gone this way,
could've gone that way."
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This thing doesn't shoot, I hope.
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The hit squad, which came from abroad,
arrived in Tunis yesterday.
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When "The Engineer,�
Mohammad Al-Zawiri, arrived,
49
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they approached him and shot
him several times at point-blank range.
50
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,840
The Tunisian media claims
that "The Engineer" had deep connections
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to the military wing of Hamas.
52
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,680
There's talk of a Tunisian journalist
who interviewed him,
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spoke with him,
shortly before his assassination,
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and later continued on to the airport.
55
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UNDERCOVER:
JUST LIKE IN THE MOVIES
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Interesting, no?
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Routine.
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- Like in the movies.
- What?
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00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:15,120
Maybe we're also part of a front
60
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,600
for a Mossad operation
that we have no idea about.
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00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,400
Even worse: Maybe you're a front
for Iranian intelligence.
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Maybe you're about to assassinate me.
63
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It's impossible to know.
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You never know.
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It's a dirty business.
66
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,640
...Assassination of a leading
Irani nuclear scientist...
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The Mossad's special
overseas assassinations unit...
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00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,080
- "Kidon".
- Yes. They're behind this.
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00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,600
The assassination of Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh,
a crime the police are pinning squarely
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on the Israeli
intelligence agency, Mossad.
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00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:52,720
In the international media,
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the Mossad's image has been
that of Murder, Inc.
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Mr. Minister, one comment on Mossad.
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I think that you saw too many
movies about the James Bond,
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and I prefer you to see more movies.
76
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,320
Is it just an image, or is it the truth?
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00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,880
I agree with you that the Mossad's image
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has been built up this way over the years.
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That's reality. There's nothing to...
80
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there's nothing to be said about it,
81
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but it's a marginal part of Mossad's work.
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At what point is the decision made
to use this tool of assassination?
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00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:36,720
Look, if a terrorist organization
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wants to carry out attacks here,
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you could start a conventional war
of one kind or another,
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00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,600
and reach their bases,
and fight them face-to-face,
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00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,520
I'm exaggerating on purpose,
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and ultimately defeat them,
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or you could deal with them differently.
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00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,720
You could make sure that part
of its leadership becomes inactive.
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00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,680
You can deal with it by...
92
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,640
gathering information about
things that are happening there.
93
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,480
You can deal with it
using intelligence or covert methods.
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00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:13,920
That's the purpose of Mossad.
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00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,400
"By wise counsel thou shalt make thy war."
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00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,440
Now, our image...
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00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:24,720
Do you think this "Murder, Inc." image
has helped you in the Middle East?
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00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,120
I do, yes. In general, yes.
99
00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,800
The long arm of Israel can reach anywhere
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00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,600
it thinks it needs to go, and...
101
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,600
It's a matter of image,
but it's also true.
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00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,240
Let's put it this way:
The image isn't far from reality,
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and sometimes reality
is stranger than fiction.
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00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,040
And by saying that,
I've contributed to the image.
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00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:51,720
Okay.
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00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,120
So when does Mossad begin to be seen
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as an all-powerful organization?
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Adolf Eichmann is captured.
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00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,480
One of the worst monsters of all time
is now in Jewish hands.
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00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:10,280
Suddenly, in 1960, Ben-Gurion gets up
to speak at the Knesset and says,
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00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,920
"We've captured the Nazi criminal,
on the other side of the world,
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"and brought him to Israel
to stand trial."
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People around the world were shocked.
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They said: "Wow, what an organization.
What capabilities."
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00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:23,720
Ladies and gentlemen,
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before you stands
the destroyer of a people,
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an enemy of the human race.
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When you left for Buenos Aires
to capture Eichmann,
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did you feel that you were
leaving on a historical mission?
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Certainly, yes.
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Look, we staked out his house.
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I walked up and said to him, in Spanish,
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"Un momentito, Sen�r",
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and subdued him with a chokehold.
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Then we put him into the car.
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The man stayed silent the whole trip.
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00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:15,400
We arrived at a room
we'd prepared for him,
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and the first question was:
"What's your name?"
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He replied: "Ricardo Klement."
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00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,080
He'd been living in Argentina
as Ricardo Klement.
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00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:32,520
Then we asked: "What's your SS number?"
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00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,720
And here,
he provided his precise SS number.
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00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,880
"And now, what's your name?"
134
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And then he said: "Adolf Eichmann."
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And a few seconds later, he said,
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"I'd like a drink,
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"and if you've got any red wine,
I'd like some red wine."
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We didn't have any red wine.
139
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Did you, at any point,
think about killing him?
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00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,120
Never.
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00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,720
Our orders were unambiguous:
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"Do whatever you can
to bring him back alive."
143
00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:18,520
Didn't you feel any sense of vengeance?
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00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,000
No, I didn't.
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00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,480
I didn't feel vindictive,
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I felt proud of our ability.
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00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,080
What did this do for Mossad, PR-wise?
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00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:37,360
There's no doubt that
the moment it was made public,
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it resonated.
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00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,040
I can only say that...
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00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:49,880
I don't think the Mossad,
at that time, was interested in PR.
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It was a unit, that is...
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an isolated entity,
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that was preoccupied
with more important matters.
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00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,040
Colonel Nasser holds a parade,
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and it seemed clear that
the whole parade was designed
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to impress the world
with Egypt's military strength.
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00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,040
Nasser and peace have never coexisted.
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00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,000
We think that Nasser
is the enemy of peace with Israel.
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00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,920
As he himself has said:
"A river of blood and a sea of fire."
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I think we must take him at his word.
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00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,200
We're talking about the year 1960.
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The State of Israel was 10 years old.
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We'd already been through two wars,
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and we all knew that Nasser
was preparing the next war.
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The Egyptians recruited
some 100 German scientists,
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some working in Germany,
but most in Egypt.
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00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:02,800
A German unit in Egypt
was developing long-range missiles,
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00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,280
capable of reaching any point in Israel.
170
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:08,720
What do we do about it?
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00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,640
When I suggested recruiting Skorzeny,
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to the head of operations, he said:
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"May a hair sprout from the palm
of my hand if you manage to do it."
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00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:33,400
Colonel Otto Skorzeny was the most daring
commando the Nazi war machine produced.
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He was once considered
the most dangerous man in Europe.
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Wasn't he
one of the officers closest to Hitler?
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Yes. He was in charge
of the German army�s commandos.
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He was...
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a great military man.
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00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,640
Il Duce is free, people are happy...
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00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,120
So while you're chasing
former Nazis all over the world,
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you recruit an ex-Nazi officer
into Mossad's service?
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00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,240
It was a positive step, which helped us
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reach every technician, and every...
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00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,840
German official in Egypt.
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00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:22,000
Herr Skorzeny, you must have been
approached since the war by other nations,
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to indulge in military activities of
the kind you indulged in during the war.
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00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,840
- Is this correct?
- Yes... Yes, exactly.
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00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,400
What did they want you to do?
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00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,080
Oh, some special work.
191
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,920
How did you manage to recruit
such a high-ranking Nazi officer?
192
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:45,880
The idea was to offer Skorzeny
freedom from fear.
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00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,680
This court sentences
Adolf Eichmann to death.
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Eichmann was hanged.
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No ex-Nazi, anywhere in the world,
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could know whether or not he was a target.
197
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,000
You essentially promised not to kill him.
198
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,400
Something like that, yes.
199
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,200
We said we wouldn't touch him.
200
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,120
On the contrary, we'd protect him.
201
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,800
As you probably know,
there have been some recent news stories
202
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,240
that the people who kidnapped Eichmann
are also looking for you.
203
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,720
They can come,
and I will receive them duly.
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00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,120
- How do you mean, duly?
- Oh, how they deserve it.
205
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:32,320
Didn't it frighten you?
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00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,000
Cooperating with a
war-scarred Nazi criminal?
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00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,400
I've got scars of my own.
208
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:43,720
Multiple scars.
209
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,640
Suppose the Israelis came after you.
Would you be captured alive?
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00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:57,040
If, for instance, they get me
during my sleep, I couldn't hinder them.
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00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,080
But if I would stay alive,
that's another question.
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00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,640
- You don't think you would stay alive?
- It depends.
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00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,880
Skorzeny provided information and...
214
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,680
took part in intimidating the scientists.
215
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,680
It started with anonymous letters
and telephone calls
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00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,040
to the scientists themselves,
and their families.
217
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,280
A letter bomb was sent
to one scientists' address in Cairo,
218
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,320
and it blinded his secretary,
219
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:30,320
but the scientist was unharmed.
220
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,920
In southern Germany, Kleinwaechter...
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00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,680
they tried to assassinate him, and failed.
222
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,720
One of the heads of the program, Krug,
223
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,040
left his office one day
and never came back.
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WAS KIDNAPED AND IS DEAD
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00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,040
In terms of intelligence work,
there's nothing out of the ordinary here.
226
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,720
The mafia works exactly the same way
227
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,320
when it wants to take over
a certain part of the city,
228
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,040
and take over the prostitution racket,
229
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:53,320
or the drug trade.
230
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,480
By January 1965,
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00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:04,240
there wasn't a single German
scientist or engineer left in Egypt.
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00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:16,120
You know, his friends
had no idea he'd betrayed them.
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00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,720
At his funeral, you can see them
giving Nazi salutes.
234
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,000
- Really?
- Yes, it's on YouTube.
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00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,320
Okay, I'll take a look.
236
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,680
Skorzeny, YouTube.
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00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,640
Can you take us back to the moment
when you first heard
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00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,920
about the attack on the
Israeli athletes in Munich?
239
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,200
This is a news flash from the Olympic
village in Munich where early this morning
240
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,240
armed Palestinian guerrillas raided
the sleeping quarters of the Israeli team.
241
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:14,840
The gunmen shot dead two Israelis,
242
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,120
and are now holding twenty athletes
and six officials as hostages.
243
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,120
Before I flew there,
the Germans stated unambiguously that
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00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:36,920
there was no way Israeli soldiers would
be involved in rescuing the athletes.
245
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,000
Golda said to me:
"Zvika, I'm asking you,
246
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,920
I'm asking you to go,
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00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,040
so that at the very least
we'll know what happened there."
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00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:54,720
When I arrived,
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00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,520
the German police ignored me.
250
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,920
I asked them:
"Tell me, what are you doing?"
251
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,520
They didn't say a word to me.
252
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,600
"We don't have to answer to you.
253
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,800
We're handling their rescue."
254
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,480
We stood along the path that led
255
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,040
from the building where,
the athletes were being held,
256
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:25,040
to the helicopter pad.
257
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,200
On both sides stood
258
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,120
tens of thousands of people.
259
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,680
And then I saw...
260
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,920
a sight that I will never forget.
261
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,720
The athletes,
262
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,040
bound, hand and foot, to one another,
263
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,880
dragging themselves along.
264
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,080
Next to them, the Arabs,
walking along the path.
265
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,320
Absolute silence.
266
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,800
And I looked upon a changed Germany.
267
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,000
Where's the German army?
268
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,400
What's going on here?
269
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:28,720
I know they're heading up that hill, and
that I'll ride in one of the helicopters.
270
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:34,000
They wouldn't let me board
the helicopter, the German police.
271
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,240
They didn't want me there.
272
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,280
I pushed through...
and got on the helicopter.
273
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,840
I'm lying next to a German sniper.
274
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,040
They shot using rifles...
275
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,120
old German rifles.
276
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,920
No sniper scopes, nothing.
277
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:21,520
It was heartbreaking,
278
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,280
because they threw
a phosphorus grenade at the helicopter,
279
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,920
and the helicopter caught fire.
280
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,840
Of all the people...
281
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,400
no one was left alive.
282
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,320
It was a sight
283
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,120
I will never forget, as long as I live.
284
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,640
Germany...
285
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,280
let them say whatever
they will about Germany.
286
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,480
That's not what I saw.
287
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,800
One generation isn't enough.
288
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,520
Prime Minister, if the world governments
do nothing, what will you do?
289
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,960
- We'll have to protect ourselves.
- How?
290
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,840
I don't know.
291
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,320
I'll tell you honestly. If I did know
what we were going to do,
292
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,080
I don't think I would tell you.
293
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,040
How did you intend
to deal with terrorist organizations?
294
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:31,240
Look,
295
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:32,680
in every war,
296
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,000
there's intelligence,
297
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,920
there's self-defense,
298
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,200
and preventative measures.
299
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,200
By "preventative measures",
do you mean targeted killings?
300
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,640
- Listen...
- You received an order from Golda
301
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,480
to assassinate the terrorist leaders
who carried out the Munich massacre.
302
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,400
Where did you hear that?
303
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,200
It's been reported.
It's been spoken about.
304
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:58,160
What?
305
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,880
- Israel didn't carry out assassinations?
- I don't... where did you...
306
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,800
The papers said so.
307
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,920
Golda didn't order me.
308
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,520
Why?
309
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,000
Because I didn't need to be ordered.
310
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:23,480
We had to prevent casualties,
311
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,840
and save Israeli lives and assets,
312
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,720
wherever they may be.
313
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,720
In some instances,
314
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:40,400
we knew about certain enemy activities,
315
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,320
and when we had no other choice,
316
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:49,840
we had to make sure
that this viper wouldn�t bite us.
317
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,880
I warned them, and I told
my brothers: "Be careful!
318
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:03,400
"The Mossad will hunt us down
one by one."
319
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:08,840
Suddenly, Palestinian leaders
started meeting unnatural deaths.
320
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,840
One Palestinian blew up
in his bed in Nicosia.
321
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,520
Another Palestinian's car blew up.
322
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,600
You live peacefully in France. Does that
mean that you don't fear for your life?
323
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,000
No, I do not,
324
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,400
but I prefer not to tempt the Devil.
325
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,880
Numerous Palestinians, of various ranks,
had their lives cut short,
326
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,280
and everyone quickly understood that
this was a coordinated Israeli operation.
327
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,920
The leaders of these murderers,
328
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,120
either fled Europe,
329
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,600
or died there.***
330
00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:01,120
The Palestinian revolution continues
to take strong, solid and stable strides
331
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,640
towards the realization
of its ultimate goal:
332
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,920
the establishment of a democratic
Palestinian state on Palestinian land.
333
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,920
You served in Europe before Munich.
334
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,800
Couldn't you tell that Palestinian
terror cells were operating there?
335
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,640
Look, I was head of the Europe division.
336
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:30,920
The Palestinian movement
337
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,200
was recruiting students into Fatah,
338
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:43,920
and I learned that they were
preparing to create violent cells,
339
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,600
to carry out terror attacks against Jews,
340
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,720
from among the student population.
341
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:57,200
And among them were Abu Jihad
and Yasser, and I suggested:
342
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,880
"Let's kill this thing in its infancy."
343
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,120
I said: "Let's take care of these guys.
344
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,320
If you like, individually.
345
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,840
If you like, all at once."
346
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,040
And the answer was "No.�
347
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,840
What do you mean by
"individually" and "all at once?"
348
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,920
"Individually" is where
I pick off one person.
349
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:25,080
"All at once" is when I know they'll all
be in a room together and I kill them all.
350
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,600
How do you kill them all?
351
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,120
- From a technical standpoint?
- Yes.
352
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,320
Very simple.
353
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,400
- What, you enter with guns blazing?
- You enter,
354
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,720
and shoot whoever
you think needs to be shot.
355
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,320
And what about a bomb?
356
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,680
- Even I didn't want to do that.
- Why not?
357
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,120
Because it would kill innocent people.
358
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,240
You don't kill unrelated parties.
359
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,120
You kill your adversaries,
360
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,720
your enemies, because by killing them,
361
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,680
you're saving the lives of others.
That's the rule.
362
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,840
Do you believe that assassinations
have proven to be an effective tool?
363
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,520
Each instance needs to be
examined on its own merits,
364
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,520
but, in general, it's an effective tool.
365
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:36,080
So you support
this policy of assassinations?
366
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,400
I wouldn't call it
�a policy of assassinations."
367
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,680
I call it "Targeting terrorists,
368
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,120
both low- and high-ranking."
369
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,920
It's one of the tools,
alongside many, many others,
370
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,600
that should be used
in our war on terror.
371
00:26:55,120 --> 00:27:00,920
What about targeting terrorist leaders,
or heads of state?
372
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,920
I'll give you my personal opinion:
373
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,040
Terrorist leaders, yes.
374
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:09,920
Heads of state, no.
375
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,720
Did you think Khaled Mashaal
was an important enough figure
376
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,800
to justify an assassination
attempt against him?
377
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,720
People were wrong about Mashaal then,
378
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,840
that he wasn't senior enough
to be bothered with at all.
379
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,720
As he was then, so he is now:
the leader of Hamas.
380
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,400
In the space of a month, in Jerusalem,
381
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,120
there were two attacks
which left many dead,
382
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,080
and dozens injured.
383
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,480
Men, women, and children,
small children, were murdered.
384
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,120
As prime minister, it's my responsibility
385
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,920
to do everything in my power
to fight this terrorist evil.
386
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,320
And we, the intelligence agencies,
were asked
387
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,720
to suggest ways of dealing with Hamas.
388
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,600
Weren't you afraid that
if something went wrong,
389
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,520
it could complicate
Israel's relationship with King Hussein?
390
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:19,720
Yes, certainly,
391
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,480
which is why, at first, I didn't initiate
392
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,680
an operation there,
393
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,680
but rather, thousands of kilometers
away from Jordan,
394
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:31,880
and not targeting Khaled Mashaal.
395
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,640
Why?
396
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,200
Because of the sensitivity.
397
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:37,880
The operation went ahead.
398
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,400
Did you intend to
assassinate someone else?
399
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,320
The combatants were already in place.
400
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,040
Then, one Friday,
401
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,720
the Defense Minister and Director of
Shin Bet went to see the Prime Minister,
402
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,320
and said, "Why are we sending the
Mossad's fine operatives over there?
403
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,720
Why not to Jordan, the place
where all this evil originates?"
404
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,600
And the Prime Minister said:
"Fine, to Jordan."
405
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,680
I was exploding with rage.
I said: "How can this be?
406
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,120
They're deciding on a Mossad mission
without me even...
407
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,480
in the room? Without consulting me?
408
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,320
What is the meaning of this?
It's just not done."
409
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,920
I find the Prime Minister,
and I talk to him.
410
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,920
And I raise my voice, too.
411
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,320
I spent the weekend finding out
if we were even able to do it.
412
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:30,920
The responsibility was mine,
413
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,120
because finally,
after looking into it, I said:
414
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,480
"It's feasible, and they can do it."
415
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,320
Was it your first time
on an assassination mission?
416
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,240
I won't go into my operational past,
417
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:56,120
but I will note that the Mashaal mission
was ten years into my service
418
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,920
in Mossad's operations unit.
419
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:05,080
It's common for an intelligence officer
to join the unit on its mission.
420
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,720
How do you head out on a mission
aimed at assassinating a human being?
421
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,680
I had...
422
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:18,600
Let me put it differently,
423
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:23,120
I was completely at peace
with the decision to assassinate Mashaal.
424
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,720
The Prime Minister's order
was to carry it out quietly,
425
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,400
because he knew
that a conspicuous operation in Amman,
426
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,920
such as placing a bomb in Mashaal's car,
427
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,720
or shooting him
with a sniper rifle from a distance,
428
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,400
or shooting him with a handgun
at close range,
429
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,200
would lead to a huge crisis
in Israeli-Jordanian relations,
430
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,920
and so he ordered us
to carry out a quiet operation,
431
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,840
an operation that would go undetected.
432
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:02,840
We developed a chemical which, upon
coming into contact with a person's skin,
433
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,680
several hours later,
that person becomes ill,
434
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,880
passes out, and expires.
435
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,600
The unit experimented
on unsuspecting people in the street.
436
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,920
Two people approach
the subject from behind.
437
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,920
One sprays him, and the other
shakes and opens a cola can,
438
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,400
causing the can's contents
to spray all over.
439
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:26,720
The person who was sprayed,
440
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,680
when he turns around,
just sees a shaken up can of cola,
441
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,920
and thinks that's what sprayed him.
442
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,520
I came to Jordan
carrying the antidote with me,
443
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,920
so that if one of our guys were exposed
to the poison intended for Mashaal,
444
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,920
he could find me and get the antidote.
445
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,280
That morning, I was by the hotel pool.
446
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,600
Someone from the unit, who wasn't
supposed to be there, showed up.
447
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,320
I got up and we stepped aside,
and this person said:
448
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,040
"Problems."
449
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,240
Last Thursday, near the
Hamas offices in Amman.
450
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,880
Khaled Mashaal is walking with
his sons and a bodyguard.
451
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,640
A Hyundai pulls up to them,
and two men emerge.
452
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,080
They approach Mashaal, press a device
against his head, and escape.
453
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,840
Mashaal collapses,
and his bodyguard hails a cab
454
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,320
and gives chase.
455
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:26,600
How did you feel when you heard
the operation had gone wrong?
456
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,800
I can explain it with one word,
457
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:29,720
two words:
458
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,520
Like shit.
459
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,920
After a few minutes' drive,
the assassins try to switch cars,
460
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,120
but when they get out of their car,
461
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,320
Mashaal's bodyguard attacks them,
and the Jordanian police arrives.
462
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,800
Mashaal is taken to the hospital
in critical condition.
463
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,600
We think the Mossad intelligence service
464
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,480
is behind of this failed
assassination attempt.
465
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:05,120
There can be no doubt
that such moves are wholly unacceptable.
466
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:06,880
Hussein said
467
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,520
that if Mashaal dies, he'll have
a Palestinian uprising on his hands,
468
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,840
and he'll have no choice
but to execute the two combatants.
469
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,720
So they decided
to make a deal with Hussein:
470
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,680
We'd save Mashaal's life,
471
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,400
using the antidote,
472
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,480
and the two captured combatants
would be released.
473
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:31,080
Their attempt failed,
their cards have been exposed,
474
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,320
and they are the big losers
in all of the recent events.
475
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:38,920
I think there was...
476
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,520
something very positive there,
477
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,040
but which led to a serious mishap,
and that was excessive motivation.
478
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,360
Because my briefing was,
479
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,520
"If there's anyone near Mashaal,
no matter who,
480
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:52,720
do not act."
481
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,520
And Mashaal, unexpectedly,
482
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,000
came out with his driver
and two children.
483
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,120
And they went ahead anyway.
484
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,920
Do you think the attempt
to assassinate Mashaal, in retrospect,
485
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,480
was worth the risk?
486
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:15,640
Let me put it another way.
487
00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:20,880
There are very few operations where,
in hindsight, if something went wrong,
488
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,600
you can say they were worth it.
489
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,240
When you look at...
490
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,240
the contribution of...
491
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,640
a department, a Mossad hit squad,
492
00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:35,840
you don't base it on one operation.
493
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,720
You look at 300.
494
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,600
One of them might go wrong along the way,
495
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,720
and then you might ask, "What for?"
496
00:34:43,240 --> 00:34:45,920
But of course, that's not the point.
It's one out of 300.
497
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,880
If 200 of 300 are successful,
498
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,480
we'll have hit our goal.
499
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,320
How do you determine whether
an assassination is worth the risk?
500
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,920
It's a very practical consideration.
501
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,640
First of all, you ask:
What are you doing this for?
502
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,920
What is the intention, exactly?
There may be many.
503
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,040
It could be disrupting
something already underway,
504
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,120
or retaliation,
505
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,200
or whatever else.
You have your intentions.
506
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,880
- Revenge?
- That too, certainly.
507
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,960
Lebanon's Hezbollah says Israel
assassinated one of its top leaders.
508
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,720
Imad Mughniyeh, one of the group's
top military commanders,
509
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,520
died in a car bombing in Syria.
510
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,280
When Imad Mughniyeh met his demise,
511
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:40,200
the popping of champagne corks
could be heard all around the world.
512
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,240
He was among the first to use truck bombs.
513
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,400
His attack on the American Marine
barracks in Beirut,
514
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,000
the planes he'd hijacked...
515
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,400
There's the famous picture
of him holding a gun
516
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,880
to the head of a TWA pilot
whose plane he hijacked to Damascus.
517
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,600
The Americans wanted him,
the French wanted him,
518
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,080
the Saudis wanted him,
the Egyptians wanted him,
519
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,480
the Kuwaitis wanted him, and so did we.
520
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,600
You have murdered Hajj Imad
521
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,280
outside the natural battle arena.
522
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:20,280
Zionists, if you want
this kind of open war
523
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:26,800
then let the whole world hear,
let there be open war!
524
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,680
Death to Israel!
525
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:35,240
When you assassinate someone,
526
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,600
aren't you opening a Pandora's box?
527
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,480
You assassinate someone,
and he kills one of yours,
528
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:41,840
and you kill one of his,
529
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,240
- and he kills one of yours...
- I don't accept this argument.
530
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,400
It's an incorrect, defeatist argument.
531
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,320
The one opening Pandora's box
is the first suicide bomber.
532
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,800
Did they expect us to forget?
To say: "Okay, so you killed some people,
533
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,120
but we'll forgive and forget,
534
00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:02,000
just so you don't get mad at us again."
535
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,600
Is that a better way, in your opinion?
536
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,520
Is that even possible?
537
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,120
The need to retaliate is understandable,
538
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:15,040
but what kind of a difference
can it make in the long run?
539
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,720
Has it helped Israel in the long run?
540
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:20,920
Not really.
541
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,080
Not really.
542
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:28,960
But it did create...
For the terrorist decision-makers,
543
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:30,920
it gave them pause.
544
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,520
A terrorist who's on the run is completely
different from a terrorist who isn't.
545
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:39,720
Look at Hassan Nasrallah.
546
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,840
He's been living in a bunker
for quite some time.
547
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,080
Is this significant
in terms of Israel's deterrence
548
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,120
against Hezbollah, yes or no?
I don't know the answer.
549
00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:53,320
The fact is that for the past few years,
550
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,000
there's been no direct Hezbollah activity
against the State of Israel.
551
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:02,000
Did the premature death
of Sheikh Ahmad Yassin
552
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,000
benefit the State of Israel, yes or no?
553
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:06,720
I think it did.
554
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,280
I think that at the end of the day,
his successors,
555
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,280
before sending out suicide bombers,
556
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,320
thought and knew that if
they got involved in such an act,
557
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:16,480
they'd have to pay a price.
558
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,120
In war, both sides get hurt.
559
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:24,320
One side gets hurt when a suicide bomber
blows up a bus in Tel Aviv,
560
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,400
and the other gets hurt when
a building collapses on him in Gaza.
561
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,000
Is that what I'd like to see
in the next life,
562
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,640
where you'll be whatever you'll be?
No, not at all.
563
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,200
Is this what reality, unfortunately,
564
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:42,120
forces us to deal with? Yes.
565
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,400
In the cybernetic age,
where everything's out in the open,
566
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,120
how does this affect an intelligence
organization like Mossad?
567
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:02,720
Well, that's a professional question.
568
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,880
I think that the modern world
569
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:12,120
is one where the familiar
rules of spycraft have changed.
570
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,080
All of your work building your cover,
all of your movements,
571
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,320
have become much more complicated,
more complex,
572
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,240
even more dangerous,
to a large extent.
573
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,000
- For example, that thing in Dubai.
- Yes.
574
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:30,240
Where some intelligence organization
left a lot of fingerprints.
575
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:36,600
Was this a success or a failure
for that organization?
576
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:37,680
I don't know.
577
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,240
A Hamas commander is murdered
in his Dubai hotel room.
578
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,320
Israel is under pressure
to explain its involvement.
579
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,320
What will be the international impact?
580
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,400
What can you tell us about
the assassination of Mabhouh?
581
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,280
How can I comment on something
Israel never claimed responsibility for?
582
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,520
The security cameras at Dubai airport
and at the hotel captured it all.
583
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,720
Here we see Mabhouh entering the hotel.
584
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,800
Two of the suspects, in tennis clothes,
enter the elevator with him,
585
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,240
and appear to follow him
in order to find out his room number.
586
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,080
Dubai Police claim that a crew
of 11 European mercenaries,
587
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,720
pictured here,
carried out Mabhouh's assassination.
588
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,840
It's rather strange that none of them,
having been filmed by so many cameras...
589
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,280
None of them was ever caught.
590
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,080
Looks like...
591
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,320
whoever planned it
did a good enough job
592
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,640
and took that into account.
593
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,120
It excites the imagination, no?
594
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,920
I think it�s clear
that whoever did the murder
595
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,520
didn�t really mind being seen on CCTV.
596
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:57,320
They say the security cameras in Dubai
were made by an Israeli company.
597
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,520
Could be, I don't know.
598
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,400
Is this a success or a failure,
when an operation like this is exposed?
599
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,920
You tell me.
600
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,240
You tell me.
601
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,120
The political use of killing,
602
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,000
is it moral in your eyes?
603
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,280
In killing... Let's make a distinction.
604
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,880
The political use of killing
is what armies do.
605
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,120
Do you have a problem with that?
606
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,840
An army, by definition,
607
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,800
is when you take young men and women,
put them in uniform,
608
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,520
teach them to kill,
609
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,280
and say, "The day your country decides
that, for political reasons,
610
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,120
you have to kill your counterparts
on the other side, go and do it."
611
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,400
And they all say, �Yes.�
612
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:46,680
And they do it.
613
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:52,480
So, by that definition,
that's what most countries do.
614
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,400
The question is, under what conditions,
and what are your objectives?
615
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,520
I'm asking, does Israel have a set code?
616
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,720
- Of what?
- About the use of assassinations.
617
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,240
- Ah, what they call "assassinations?"
- Yes.
618
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,320
Terrorists, and their leaders.
619
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,720
Leaders are a separate case.
620
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,040
On the face of it, on the positive side,
621
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,720
you can say: If you're already
going to take someone's life,
622
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,920
target the ones responsible.
Why should foot soldiers pay the price?
623
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,920
It's also economical.
Instead of killing an entire army,
624
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,400
you take out the commander.
625
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:25,920
But on the other hand,
626
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:32,400
leaders are wary of ordering
the assassination of heads of state,
627
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,320
as this might also apply to them,
and there is a sort of pact:
628
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,120
"Don't do it to me,
and I won't do it to you."
629
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,400
What does Israel do?
As we've seen,
630
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,000
it draws a line.
631
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,520
It doesn't do all it can.
632
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,600
If we wanted to, we could
633
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,640
kill leaders in the region.
634
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:52,600
But in the same breath,
635
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,120
if it's an existential matter,
636
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,120
and if you think
you need to target leaders,
637
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,400
and if you're willing to pay the price,
638
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,880
then this is also an option.
639
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,400
Were you ever involved in
deciding a leader's fate?
640
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,840
Yes... OK.
641
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:12,680
Here I can tell you
642
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,400
about an uneasy feeling
that haunts me to this day.
643
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,280
January, 1979.
644
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,240
Khomeini comes to power in Iran.
645
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:35,040
In a month, he�ll be ruling the country,
turning it into an Islamic Republic,
646
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:40,120
but up until then, we were allied
with the Shah's regime,
647
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:43,320
and we were very close to the Shah
and to Iranian intelligence.
648
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:46,720
At that time,
649
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,600
the director of Mossad called me and said,
650
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,240
"You're going to head the Tehran branch."
651
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,840
I basically went in order to see
what was going on in Iran,
652
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,080
because it was clear there were
extremist underground currents,
653
00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:07,240
and you could say
that neither the Shah nor Khomeini
654
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,640
realized how quickly it would all
fall into his hands.
655
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,000
But at some point,
when they began to feel the danger,
656
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:19,880
someone important came to me and said:
Put on a jacket and tie
657
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,720
and come with me to meet
the king of kings, 'Shahin Shah'
658
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,200
and hear his request
that the Mossad assassinate Khomeini."
659
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:35,080
The request arrived by urgent telegram
to the office of Haka, director of Mossad,
660
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,720
and he called an urgent meeting.
661
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,680
I was the intelligence officer on Iran.
662
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,520
So Haka says:
"We got a telegram from Geizi.
663
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,640
They're asking us to kill Khomeini.
What do you say?"
664
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:48,840
Before I could answer,
665
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,640
the guy sitting next to me,
a veteran who had spent years in Iran,
666
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:56,520
butts in and says: "Don't worry.
667
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,520
Let Khomeini return to Tehran.
668
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,520
The army and SAVAK won't let him rule.
They'll kill him."
669
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:05,920
Haka looks at me again,
670
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:11,400
and I'm running scenarios through
my head at breakneck speed.
671
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,600
What happens if we succeed?
What would the Americans say?
672
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,720
And what about the French?
And the Russians?
673
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,400
What happens if we fail?
And who is this Khomeini, anyway?
674
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,600
What do we know about him?
675
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,600
And after...
676
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:34,200
thinking for a moment, I say to Haka:
"I can't give you an answer.
677
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,680
We don't know enough about Khomeini."
678
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:40,880
And Haka says:
"Okay, we're not doing it."
679
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,600
I answer the guy:
"Sorry, not in our wheelhouse.
680
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:48,840
We're not the world police.
681
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,320
It's your problem. Do as you see fit."
682
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,720
A month later,
Khomeini seized control of Iran.
683
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:02,840
Looking back,
684
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,120
my failure to make a decision
685
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:06,840
haunts me to this day.
686
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,240
If Yossi Alpher were sitting
in front of Haka today,
687
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:11,320
what would his answer be?
688
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:17,680
In light of all that's happened
with the Islamic regime In Iran
689
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,320
since Khomeini came to power,
690
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,520
and all the damage it's done
in the Middle East,
691
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,840
I would give a different answer.
692
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:28,200
A few years ago,
693
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,520
friends said to me,
"What is this nonsense?
694
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,120
If we had the chance to take out Hitler,
695
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:34,840
before he came to power,
696
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,080
would we also have said
'We're not the world police?��
697
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,720
I was left with my mouth open,
unable to answer.
698
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,840
I'll allow myself to philosophize a bit.
699
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,240
Let's say we'd done it.
700
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,800
Let's say we'd had a shot
at assassinating Khomeini.
701
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,480
Would the world, and Iran, have known
what we'd saved them from?
702
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,680
Rafi, three...
703
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,080
In the First Lebanon War,
704
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,880
the idea of assassinating Arafat
was raised once again.
705
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,600
This nation will not give up!
706
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,840
Yes. Arik Sharon set up a team
707
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:16,600
in order to assassinate Arafat.
708
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,000
We actually went in,
709
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,080
myself as well,
710
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:26,480
to Yasser Arafat's headquarters.
711
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,520
He escaped.
712
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,680
It would have been easy, actually,
because he was out in the open,
713
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,640
but... it wasn't done.
714
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,400
Do you, personally,
think it was a mistake?
715
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,720
Historically speaking, yes.
716
00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:47,800
Explain.
717
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,160
Look...
718
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,280
Had we assassinated Yasser Arafat
at that time, and only him,
719
00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:01,280
a separation between us and the
Palestinians could have been achieved,
720
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,720
and I'm convinced
that it's still achievable.
721
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,480
Do you really think
that assassinating a single person
722
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,800
can change the course of history?
723
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:13,520
Exactly.
724
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,920
Like Rabin's murder, in contrast.
725
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,520
So throughout your years
of Mossad service,
726
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,920
did you ever feel a pang of regret,
727
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:38,280
where they wouldn't let you do
something you felt was necessary?
728
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,120
Look,
729
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,000
if memory serves, I've never felt
730
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,720
a pang of regret in my life.
59094
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