All language subtitles for Surviving.R.Kelly.S02E04.WEBRip.x264-ION10.English.HI

to me.

Like, Rob was my life.

HALLE CALHOUN: I would think I
would be done, but, you know,

I would leave
feeling like I had nothing.

DOMINIQUE GARDNER: It was like
I didn't want to live anymore.

It was just dark.

MICHELLE KRAMER:
He controlled everything.

He controlled when they eat.

You can't go to the bathroom
when you want to?

That's a punishment.

JERHONDA PACE:
He told me that if I was

everything to him, like,
uh-- that I say he is,

that there would be
no life worth living,

you know, if something
was to happen to him.

DOMONIQUE: He said,
"Your mother can't do this,

your father can't do that,"
and after a while,

you start to believe.

He **** my daughter up.

Emotionally.
[sniffles]

This is just
really hard to process.

TARANA BURKE: I'm thinking
about their parents.

I'm thinking about
how much work it's gonna take

to free them, at the point
when they are ready to be free.

Only question I wanted
to know was the why.

Why?
Why did you stay for so long?

♪

[cheering]

♪

KIM FOXX: Robert Kelly
was indicted on ten counts

of aggravated
criminal sexual abuse.

I was surprised
when he was charged.

I think this time around,
folks want to get it right.

He's always felt like
he was above everything.

LANITA CARTER: I want him to
acknowledge that he wronged me.

Said that I was important.

Make me feel
like I'm not going crazy.

LIZETTE MARTINEZ:
I just broke down crying.

And then, as the wounded woman

I am, you also feel guilty.

I was a part of a suicide pact.

If he was to go to jail,
I was supposed to kill myself.

[sniffles]

With-with Rob, I was a part
of a suicide pact with him.

And if anything was to happen
to him, if he was to go to jail

or someone was to harm him,
I was supposed to kill myself.

And...

I'm sorry,
I'm getting emotional.

[sniffles]

[exhales]

This is just really hard
to process.

[sighs]

Okay.

When the suicide pact
came about,

Rob and I was
in the mirror room,

and he told me that
if I was everything to him,

like, uh-- that I say he is,
that, you know,

there would be
no life worth living.

He's like,
"If something happen to me,

"I want you to take these pills.

I will leave the pills
in this pocket right here."

And he had this suit
hanging up below his TV,

and he put the pill bottle
inside of the suit pocket.

And he told me,
"If something happen to me,

you know where the pills are."

And I said, "Are you serious?"

And he said, "Yeah." He said,

"This is what you do.
This is a suicide pact."

And when I was with him,
I was really ready

to take my own life,
because, um,

Rob, he was everything to me.

Like, Rob was my life.

ADEWALE:
In an abuser,

sexual predator,
cult-like following,

they're always looking for ways
to keep that bond strong.

The suicide pact might be useful

in order to control
an individual.

Are you willing to put them
over your needs?

- Your life?
- NORCOTT: You can get

people to think and do things

with enough time
and enough pressure.

And a perpetrator knows that
and abuses that.

If rumors of a suicide pact
are true,

and it may be
that if they did say yes,

or if someone's complicit
with that,

they may think
in the moment, like,

"Okay, well, maybe. Maybe not.

You know, I don't know. This
doesn't really sound right."

But over time, that yes then
leads into more conversation,

until it starts to feel
like your idea,

until it starts
to feel like a plan.

JERHONDA:
Less than two weeks

of me being involved
with Rob, um,

he told me, he's like,
"You know, I spend

a lot of time in the studio."

He said, "Why don't you invite
one of your friends here,

so you don't be bored."

And I was like...
[gasps]

"I can invite a friend?"
And I got so excited.

I was like, "Oh, my gosh,
I'm about to invite a friend."

I was like, "Dominique.

Dominique's perfect."

I told Rob, like,
"All right, this is her name,

this is her phone number,"
and I don't know

when the contact started, how
they reached out to one another,

but I just know that she never
came while I was there.

I asked him. I said,
"Did you call, uh, Dominique?

Did you-- Is everything okay?"
and he was like, "No."

He was like, "No,
that-that's not your friend.

That's---You don't
need to talk to her."

Probably about three days later,
Dominique's dad told me

that she got invited
to his house.

And I said, "Are you going?"
She said, "Yeah, I'm going."

And that was the beginning
of Dominique and Rob.

Dominique and I never even
saw each other in the house.

We were allowed
to have cell phones.

We would text and sneak
phone calls to one another.

But the thing is,
Rob, he didn't know

that we were talking.

He didn't want us communicating.

Now I just look like, hey,

I got-- I drug Dominique
into this. Now I'm a bad friend.

But nobody knew the backstory
about how Dominique was invited.

After five years of trading
e-mails with Jerhonda Pace,

she went on the record.

JERHONDA:
I broke the NDA

when I decided to speak
with Jim DeRogatis

and do the BuzzFeedarticle.

She went on the record
because her friend,

Dominique Gardner,
was still with Kelly

along with Joy and Azriel,
and Jerhonda was concerned

that her friend Dominique
was gonna be hurt by Kelly.

MICHELLE: Before Dominique
was with R. Kelly,

she was the number one fan.

She loved him.

Her dream was to meet him.
And she did.

My daughter Dominique, after
six years of dating R. Kelly...

...she said he wanted her
to move to Atlanta.

After that, I never saw
my daughter again.

He was just trying
to isolate them and just,

you know, he just wanted them
to forget about--

How do you forget
about your parents?

I don't even know
how you do that.

But basically, that's what
he was trying to do.

When I saw her on the TMZ,

that's why I ain't recognize
her, 'cause I'm thinking

I'm looking for some long hair,
'cause I haven't seen her

in three years-- physically,
I have not seen my child.

She was so skinny.

They was in Beverly Hills.

So I went to Beverly Hills,

just to go say hi to her.

That's all I was trying to do.

Um...

[crying softly]

[quietly]:
Okay, baby.

MICHELLE: 'Cause she said,
"Ma, what you doing here?"

I said, "I came to see you.

It's Mother's Day weekend, baby.
I love you."

She told me to come back
at 6:00.

I said, "I-I ain't leaving
without my daughter."

We ran out of there

like Harriet Tubman.

I was freeing a slave.

I could never forget that night.

I see my daughter.

I touch my daughter.

She was **** up.

I didn't even sleep that night.

'Cause I'm watching her,
'cause she couldn't sleep

'cause she was worried
about what he was gonna say.

DeROGATIS:
Dominique

talked to me on the record.

It took her nine months,

and it was after
Surviving R. Kelly ran.

She told me she had
not watched the show

because she had lived it.

She seemed seriously conflicted.

She was avoiding
talking to anybody.

Although, after Surviving
R. Kelly, everybody wanted

to talk to Dominique.

Dominique had said she wanted
to tell the story to me

because people
didn't understand.

I-I was moved by Dominique,
and, uh, I hope she's okay.

MICHELLE:
Before Dominique met R. Kelly,

she was this bubbly teenager.

But after R. Kelly...

she was dark.

She was like a-a loner.

She didn't want to be
bothered with nobody.

He **** my daughter up.

Emotionally.
[sniffles]

PRODUCER:
Dominique, are you ready?

♪

- PRODUCER: Are you ready?
- Mm-hmm.

DOMINIQUE:
A year ago Mother's Day,

that's the day I left
from the hotel

to be with my mother.

I remember getting this call
from the front desk lady,

and she said, "You have
a package downstairs."

And I was just like,
"Okay, cool.

"Can you just bring it up

because I can't
go downstairs and get it."

So a few seconds later,
I get a knock at the door,

and it's my mother
with a camera crew.

And that was, like, the hardest
decision I had to make

because, of course, I love Rob,

but then again, I knew that
the situation wasn't good.

DOMINIQUE:
Joycelyn was there in the room.

Her door was closed,

so she didn't know I left that.

And I felt bad for leaving her

because it was like
we was all we had.

So, it-it's tough.

It was hard for me
'cause that's not my heart.

Like, I just don't
leave people hanging.

So it was very painful for me.

MICHELLE: When she left the
hotel, she wrote Joy a letter

to tell her that she was sorry,
but her time was up.

- MICHELLE: It's okay.
- DOMINIQUE [crying]: Okay.

MICHELLE: And Gabe said
he loves you so much.

It was time for her to go.

And that was
one of the hardest...

She wasn't right.

She was, like, 98 **** pounds.

Looking like a **** boy.

She was **** up.

DOMINIQUE: I was happy because
I was free and she was there.

It's like a scared child

and your mother's there.

It was beautiful.

MICHELLE:
We made it back to Chicago.

She was sad. She was hurt.

She wasn't the Dominique I knew.

I don't even know the words
I could s-- to describe,

but it wasn't her.

It wasn't the daughter I raised.

The drinking, the drugs.

Every time she closed her eyes,
she was thinking of R. Kelly,

so she couldn't sleep.

She was dark.

She was hurting.

I still had that thought process
of following his rules.

If there was a guy and I didn't
talk to him or look at him,

my mom was just like,
"What are you doing?" You know?

And I was just like, oh,

it's-it's normal
to talk to somebody.

You know, a guy.

It's okay to look at them.
You know?

It was a scary feeling.

Like, "Oh, crap, I just
broke one of his rules."

But I'm like, "Wait,
I'm-I'm not with him anymore,

"so... [laughs]

what's to fear?"

MICHELLE: It was a control thing.
He controlled everything.

He controlled when they eat,
he controlled

when they buy the food.
I mean,

it was sick.

Only question I wanted
to know was the why.

Why, why did you stay
for so long?

Because she was in love.

DOMINIQUE:
Love means, for Robert,

a woman who's gonna be loyal,

who's gonna obey him,

follow his rules,

don't go against them.

And when you go against them,

it's basically,
you're the enemy.

And he's gonna
treat you like that.

MAN [distorted voice]:
Dominique stayed

in trouble with Robert
all the time

pretty much, because she

was rebellious.

Whenever she had a chance
to be around other people,

she'd be a little too talkative,

and he didn't like that,
so he kept her

on what he would call
"punishment."

MICHELLE: She told me
he was very violent.

She didn't listen.
She wanted to go eat,

she went to the refrigerator
to get something to eat.

That's a punishment.
You can't do that.

You can't go to the bathroom
when you want to.

That's a punishment.

Get an ass whupping for that.

Extension cords, belts, shoes,

whatever you could think of.

Whatever you could think of.

He, um, pulled her hair out.

That was part of her whupping.

She said there was
big patches of chunks

of her hair gone.

He just saw it like, "What's
going on with your hair?"

And I'm just like, "Well,
you know, we had got into it.

"You know, when you pulled
my hair, you pulled it

"kind of hard where to the
point... yanked it out.

"So when I went to go
comb it and brush it,

it was just falling out."

So, that's when
he was just like,

"Well, I think you might
look nice with short hair."

My hair was damaged anyway,
so... let's cut it.

PRODUCER:
Was there a reason why

that incident happened?

Um, I disrespected him
at a party.

He asked me to come here,
and I didn't.

I just didn't want to get up.
[chuckles] You know?

I'm just like, I'm chilling,
like, I don't want to move,

so he just felt like
that was disrespectful.

I prefer not to talk about that.

PRODUCER:
Okay.

MAN [distorted voice]:
So, I was not aware

of Robert having attractions

to boys until a couple
of the girls in the house

started to talk
about there being a guy

that he was involved
with who would sometimes

come into the bedroom with them.

MICHELLE:
When she came home,

I didn't want her
to feel inadequate,

so I cut my hair to be with her.

I am my daughter's keeper.

So, I love my new style.

We're like twins.

DOMINIQUE:
The last two years,

I really felt lonely
and dark with Rob.

There was times where I got
left behind, felt isolated.

MICHELLE:
I heard that he left her

on the tour bus for three days

with no food and water.
Thank you

for his assistant that snuck
her some food and some water.

He'd lock her in the bathroom,
lock her in a room

for days.

And it wasn't just her.

It was all of them, but she was

the most rebellious one,
so she got it the worst.

The longest I ever went by
myself was a week and a half.

PRODUCER:
In a room?

Mm-hmm.

Felt...

lonely, sad...

um...

it was like I didn't want
to live anymore.

You know, it was just... dark.

PRODUCER: Was that one
of the hardest times?

Mm-hmm, most definitely.

Yeah.

PRODUCER: When you think of,
like, yourself looking back...

Can I have some tissue?

PRODUCER:
Yeah, of course.

- Here.
- Thank you.

Can I... take a moment?

PRODUCER:
Yeah, go ahead.

Mm-hmm.

DOMINIQUE: The last two years
with Rob felt...

it was like I didn't want
to live anymore.

You know, it was just... dark.

[sniffles]

DOMINIQUE:
Thank you.

DOMINIQUE:
Mm-hmm.

Mm... bittersweet feeling.

She said that
he wanted to see her.

And I tried to do everything
to convince her to not go.

But what you do
with a grown woman?

So she went.

First time my son
actually saw me break down.

PRODUCER:
Why did you go back?

DOMINIQUE: Because I didn't
leave 100% on my own.

And I wanted to see
how Joy was doing.

MICHELLE:
She left her sisters behind.

That's how she described them.
They were sisters and

I don't know if she was trying
to convince them to come.

We never talked about that.

But she loved them girls.

PRODUCER:
There's multiple girls who are

in a relationship with one man--
how would you describe that?

Whew, it was hard,
because it's like,

everyone wants Rob's attention.

Yes, there's was
jealousy going on, like,

"Oh, he's spending
more time with her than me.

And doing this and that
with that person, so..."

It kind of got
frustrating on my part,

because...
everyone wants to be that one.

We was all supposed to tell Rob

when one of us
had broken his rules.

But sometimes

we'll sweep it
underneath the rug,

because we didn't want

to see one another in trouble.

It was like a sisterhood.
You don't want your sister

getting in trouble,
so you just be like...

MAN [distorted voice]:
When Dominique flew

to L.A. with Joycelyn,

it was to pretty much
watch Joycelyn.

And make sure, you know,
she went where she was supposed

to go and do what
she was supposed to do.

Using the group to control
itself is a well-used tactic.

You use the masses
to control itself.

And then it becomes
much easier to control

the whole group, right,
'cause you're outnumbered.

But if people are
watching each other,

they're not watching you.

DOMINIQUE:
When I went back to Rob

and saw Azriel and Joy,
it was a happy feeling.

It was like
reconnecting with them.

I felt like there would be
more consequences,

but I took that chance
on whatever consequences

was to come, because
I was concerned about Joy.

I just wanted to make sure
she was okay.

And there was no consequence
when I went back.

I don't know if me leaving

kind of... like,

maybe opened his eyes up a bit,

'cause he kind of
changed a little.

It was kind of scary,
but I'm like, um...

Like, I left Joy
in a hotel by herself,

got on a plane from L.A.

to come back to Chicago and...

no consequence? Like...

It was, it was positive,
and we bonded

even more.

[laughing]

MICHELLE: "Oh, I'm sorry.
I won't do that again.

"It's gonna be better.
I'm gonna let you go

home and see your mom.
I'm gonna let you do that."

And he'd just lied
as he used to do.

Lie about everything.

Lucifer is the liar.

And God is the truth.

DOMINIQUE:
The first time I left,

it did help open my eyes
to certain things,

because them first two days

was like, man, I missed out

on a lot, you know? So...

I asked him if I could go
to my little brother's

graduation because I promised
and I don't make promises.

And he's like, "No."

Jaylen, my brother,
he's everything.

He means the world to me.

He was 14 at the time.

And if you're not there,

it's like, "Oh, why don't
my sister love me?"

Or "Why she didn't come,
she's in Chicago."

I missed out on a lot of family

gatherings and celebrations.

And some things
you can't get back.

And that was important for him.

So... I just decided
to leave after that.

Monday evening...
We have a dog named Lola

and she was whining.

And I was like,
"Why is she whining?"

She only whines for somebody
that she know is coming.

So I was like,
"Girl, what you whining for?

Ain't nobody coming."

So, I look out the window.

There was a cab.

My son Jaylen
hollered out so loud,

"Nikka's back!
Nikka's back, Mama!"

She come in the room
and she said,

"I told you I'm only
in love with one woman,

and that's my mother."

And she said,
"You got $25 for the cab?"

[chuckles]

She ain't never
looked back since.

And... and...

MICHELLE:
She missed him.

Like, when she left,

he was shorter than her.

Now, he's taller than her,

so that's
her little big brother.

She missed that growth,
like, he grew up

before her eyes, you know?

But he loves his sister.

FEMALE REPORTER:
Singer R. Kelly

was released from jail
earlier this evening.

FEMALE REPORTER 2: After spending
three nights in the Cook County jail,

R. Kelly was finally
back out on the town.

And the woman who made it all
possible is Valencia Love.

Monday, she was able
to post $100,000

to help out the R&B singer,
who she called a friend.

FEMALE REPORTER Kelly went to
a McDonald's after his release.

Ironically, it's the same

place where a lawsuit
claimed he began seeing

a high school-aged girl,
who later became pregnant.

DeROGATIS:
The Rock 'N' Roll McDonald's,

where he often cruised for

preteens and teenage girls.

I guess that's the way
you get away with it.

If I act like I'm innocent,

or act like I have nothing
to hide, I can continue

to get away with the crimes

I've been committing.

JERHONDA: These charges,
yeah, they're here, but...

he's still out there.

MICHELLE:
I want him to serve.

I want to be able to say

that he never

see the outside.

He'll never be able
to walk his dog anymore.

I want him to face all his
victims and their families.

I want him to see the pain
that he had brought to us.

JERHONDA: I just want
to get the girls out.

Azriel and Joycelyn

are being mentally abused
and physically abused.

And I, honestly, look at them

as victims
of Stockholm syndrome.

They love their abuser.

I mean, I loved Rob
when I was with him.

Azriel is me in the beginning
stages with Rob.

Like, "Oh, no, this is,
this is my man.

I'm gonna do
whatever I have to do."

I was ready to fight to the end.

I wasn't willing
to give up on Rob.

I watched the Gayle King
interview with-with Kelly.

And I saw

an act.

[crying]:
This is not me!

I-I'm fighting for my **** life!

LINDSEY PERRYMAN-DUNN: I was happy
that he was finally speaking.

Because he is someone
who had just

pushed negativity
out of his world

so much that he wasn't
gonna talk on it.

And I told him,
"You need to talk.

The public needs to hear you."

I was so happy to see
that his big, uh,

TV interview was
with Gayle King.

'Cause it sort of mitigated
a lot of the things that

he might have been
able to get away with

with a white journalist.

There's a narrative
in American history

of black men being oppressed,
being hunted,

uh, being accused of things
that we didn't do.

But when he sits across from
Gayle King, she can sort of,

like, push aside that and go,
"But what about you?"

Y'all killing me with this ****!

I gave you 30 years
of my **** career!

- Robert...
- 30 years of my career!

And y'all are trying to kill me!

ASANTE:
I heard him scream,

and that was one thing
that froze me up,

and I just felt like
he was in the room.

Because I knew how he is
when he get angry,

and he's done it many times.

I have seen that behavior.

I actually was scared for Gayle,

'cause I really thought that

he was gonna lash out on Gayle.

And so, I-- You know,
Gayle took that very well,

because I think if it was me
as the interviewer,

I probably would've ran,
I'm just gonna be honest.

Because he puts that fear in me.

R. KELLY [echoing]: Y'all just
don't want to believe the truth!

- You don't want to believe it!
- Robert...

You just don't want
to believe it!

LINDSEY:
When I saw that, I saw a man

truly fighting for his freedom,

scared to death.

I can remember having
a conversation with him,

and he was just talking about
how people always

talk about
the bad things he does,

but they never talk
about the good.

And he was just crying.

And he was comparing himself
to Michael Jackson,

and then he started boo-hooing.

I've never seen a grown man
start boo-hooing like that.

This is exactly what
I was talking about

when it came to Rob.

He don't know how
to take responsibility.

He feels like
the world is after him.

There's an old saying:
"A hit dog will holler."

That Gayle King interview,
to me,

was the personification of that.

That putting on

and crying and flailing

and gesturing and, you know,
just-just all of it was,

"you have nowhere to go,"
because a hit dog will holler.

I started crying. I was like,
"I can't watch."

I, like, literally
just started doing this.

I was like, "I can't watch."

And my sister was there,
and she just started hugging me.

And she was like, "It's okay,"
and she was crying with me.

And I was like, "I can't watch."

I was like, "That's the--
that's the person I know."

He would be so nice
and talking to you,

then next thing you know,
he'd flip,

and everything's your fault,

and everybody is against him.

And the abuse would start.

And it ju-- It took me there.

And I was like, "I can't do it,
I can't do it, I can't do it."

I just want to see the girls.

I just want to see Azriel
and Joycelyn.

The most horrifying thing
was not his performance,

but Gayle's conversation with
Joy Savage and Azriel Clary.

You know, we're gonna
look at those, uh,

and we're just gonna say,
"Wow, that was weird."

WatchingKing...

it was heartbreaking.

When I saw her--

Don't get me wrong,
she looked stunning.

She was beautiful,
but I didn't recognize her.

Her attitude, the clothes,
the hair.

The tone of her voice.

Her teeth, her nose.

I couldn't believe it was her.

KING:
Your parents encouraged you

- to do sexual videos with R.
Kelly? -AZRIEL: Yes. Yes.

And they said, because if they
ever have to blackmail him,

what they're trying to do now,
they can use it against him.

Which is exactly
what they're doing.

Uh, Joycelyn, I see you nodding
a lot with what she's saying.

Yes. Because everything
that she's saying is true.

So, you're saying the same as--
You're saying...

Well, both of our parents,

both of our parents are
basically out here

trying to get money and scam.

She's still my daughter,
my baby girl,

and I know that's not her words.

I birthed her, and I know

that she would never
turn on her family

like he wants the world
to think.

I saw my daughter just agree

with some of the things
that Azriel said,

because I felt if she would've
said anything out of place,

she would've got beaten for it.

It just shows that-- his control

for those young women.

He has full control of
whatever he wants them to do

at all times.

Even in the presence of some
other people that are there.

I honestly think what happened
to my sister is that

she has been manipulated
and fully turned upside down.

It just showed. It showed
through her facial expressions,

her body language.

It just showed
she was not happy,

and it's very heartbreaking.

[crying]

Tell me, Azriel,
why you're crying. Tell me.

I'm crying because you guys
don't know the truth.

You guys are believing
some **** facade

that our parents are saying.

This is all **** lies for money.

And if you can't see that,
you're ignorant

and you're stupid as ****.

Watching my daughter attack
her parents with lies

and false allegations
and anything

to protect the person
she thought she loved, R. Kelly,

um...

You know, you go blank,
you go numb.

And it's my job as a father
to understand

that that wasn't my daughter
that was speaking.

That wasn't my daughter.

That was a young lady
that was surviving

in the situation that she in.

LEMIEUX:
There is anSNL cold open, um,

where the infamous Gayle King
interview, uh, was parodied.

How stupid would it be
for me, R. Kelly,

with all the crazy
illegal things

that I've done in my past,
on tape,

and gotten away with scot-free,
to do it again?

How stupid do you think I am?
Is this the camera?

Uh, no. No.

LEMIEUX:
I had mixed feelings about it.

I do believe that humor
can be a powerful tool

to educate, to cope, to heal,
to look something in the eye.

But the response
to the allegations

against R. Kelly dating back
to rumors of him dating Aaliyah,

so much of it has been humor.

"Can I get that toot-toot?
Beep-beep."

He going by the school.

[laughter]

I don't know that America
deserves to laugh at R. Kelly,

because America's been laughing
at R. Kelly for too long.

YEE:
People love the moments

that are viral moments,
to see him acting out,

and people do tend to make that
more of a funny thing.

And so, that was
an issue that I had,

because people
were taking clips of him

and using that,
kind of, to make fun of him.

♪ Y'all are killing me
with this **** ♪

♪ Y'all are killing me with
this **** ♪

- ♪ Y'all trying to kill me.
♪ -DeROGATIS: There's certain things

that are really not
fodder for jokes.

[sighs] And yeah,
it was funny, right?

But we're laughing at a man
who's destroyed countless lives.

BELL:
Comedy dies on the vine.

All comedy eventually turns.

And the best comedy
is so specific to its time

that it turns very quickly.

I can remember laughing
very hard at, uh, "Piss on You"

and-and all the R. Kelly stuff
and-- and also, having a thought

like, "Oh, I didn't realize
it was that serious."

♪ Only thing to make
my life complete ♪

♪ Is when I turn your face ♪

♪ Into a toilet seat ♪

♪ I want to pee on you. ♪

DeROGATIS: I couldn't
bring myself to watch

the new Chappelle
stand-up routine,

but I've read about, uh,
20 reviews of it.

You know, it's Chappelle
sort of admitting, too late,

uh, that there's something
there, but it's just tossed off.

I mean, you know,
if I'm a betting man,

I'm gonna put my money on
he probably did that ****.

[laughter]

[chuckles]: I'm pretty sure
he did that ****.

DeROGATIS:
How powerful would it have been

if Chappelle took a minute
and a half to say,

"I had some skits
back in the day about R. Kelly,

"and now I have been made
to realize the pain he caused.

"People who could've been my
daughters, my sisters, my wife,

uh, and it's wrong."

I mean, that would've,
that would've counted,

that would've mattered.

Uh, Chappelle never did that.

This **** an idiot.
He was **** like, "Yeah,

"this is the best
14-year-old ****

I've ever had in my life."

And she was like, "You like
this 14-year-old ****?"

He's like, "Oh, yeah,
I love this 14..."

I'm like, "Man, you need
to shut the **** up."

[laughter]

You got to give your lawyer
something to work with.

You're supposed to be
on the tape like,

"This is the best...
36-year-old ****

I've ever had in my life."

ARCENEAUX:
I am guilty

of referring to R. Kelly
as "pissy"

for comedic effect
and just to insult him.

But I will say, actually
watching Surviving R. Kelly

reminded me that the use
of humor in that instance

is to trivialize what happened.

In this instance, it's rape.

It's sexual assault.

It's pedophilia.

It's not to be made fun of.

We have all made jokes
that later we go, "Yikes,

that was not a good one."
I have jokes like that.

On some level, it's just, how do
you want to be in the world?

And I think that the one thing
we should learn right now,

in the social media era, in the
Internet era, in the Trump era,

is that we're all living in the
same timeline and we're all--

we all have access
to everybody's stuff.

Aziz Ansari has
his routine about it.

Look at all this R. Kelly stuff.

All this information was out
there in the past, right?

There was the Aaliyah thing,
there was the tapes

and everyone just kind of
looked the other way. Right?

But now the culture
has reached a breaking point.

Now that there is a bingeable
six-hour documentary,

the culture's like,
"Hey, it's one thing

"for all this information
to be out there

"in a 20-page long read,
but now that it's been packaged

in an entertaining fashion,
no more!"

LEMIEUX: What I don't
hear from Aziz Ansari

nor Dave Chappelle
in these routines

is any sort of empathy

for what happened
to these girls and women.

People who-who satirized
or made comedy out of R. Kelly

just helped people
to laugh about it

and not think of it
as a serious crime.

It becomes,
"Oh, R. Kelly, we know him.

He's nasty and he's a freak."

But it doesn't
underscore the fact

that he's urinating on
a 13-year-old, 14-year-old girl.

And it's, and it's--
that's not helpful.

It also dehumanizes a woman.

It makes it seem like her
feelings don't matter at all.

Sometimes we don't get
to really hear their voices.

You know,
we get to see what happened,

we get to see the jokes,
and then you don't hear

what the women have to say
in response to that, right?

Because I don't feel
like the media

concentrates on that as much.

These are real women
with real feelings

that are still having issues
every time they hear or see

anything about him.

And we have to take that
into account

instead of looking at it as
just circumstances that happened

that we're so removed from.

Watching Azriel and Joycelyn
in that subsequent interview,

just, my heart.

I'm thinking about
their parents.

I'm thinking about
how much work it's gonna take

to free them at the point
when they are ready to be free.

It's gonna take so much work,
you know?

And it's just unfortunate.

I can't really give them advice,

because no one
could give me advice.

Like, people can tell you,
"Leave. He's not right for you,

he don't love you."

But you have to see it
for yourself.

You have to feel something
in your heart.

I mean, it took me nine years.

I feel like they've been there

four, maybe five years.

But...

they love him.

Love is a very powerful drug.

TIM:
Joycelyn has been involved

with R. Kelly, now to our
knowledge, over four years.

And this has been a traumatic
experience for me and my family.

We haven't seen her

since the year of 2016.

JAILYN: I graduated
high school in 2018,

and Joycelyn did not
show up at all.

I didn't hear a call from her,
I didn't get a text message.

Not a congratulations.

I didn't get none of that.

TIM:
He's the mastermind.

He may not read or write well,

but he can definitely
control every moment

of everybody life
that's around him.

He made Joycelyn
sign something, saying that

her father molested her.

- Mm-hmm. -That was something that
was very heartbreaking to me.

Her father or no one,

no male in her family
has ever touched her.

Luckily, I was able to get

the information first hand

from his, from one of his
old young ladies, Halle;

so those type of
smear campaigns, um, that he's,

was one thing that
he threatened to expose.

I believe he's told her
that he would

- expose that information...
- Right.

...if she was to speak out
against him.

My name is Halle Calhoun,

and I was one of
R. Kelly's girlfriends.

We met at a concert in,
um, Columbia, South Carolina.

I went with my mom to a show.

Someone who worked for him
approached me,

pulled us aside and said,

"You know, Rob wants
to meet her."

I met him, and we just talked
in the, in the little room

backstage for at least an hour,

just about random stuff.

He had something about him
to where it would,

you would just get
drawn into him.

He was just so young at heart.

That's definitely what gets you

in, you know, the beginning.

I lived with Rob

for three and a half years

when I was with him.

I wasn't sure who else
was living with Rob,

especially when I first met him.

But when I did know kind of
what was going on

in the situation, um,

it was just Joy and Azriel,

and Dominique.

But we were always
kind of separated.

He was paranoid a lot.

He was...
he didn't trust anybody.

He didn't like you to be
in any type of contact with

his, the men that worked for him
or his male friends.

If a man would walk by, he would
want me to turn my head.

When we would go shopping,

or if I would go shopping,

he wanted you to wear, you know,
less attractive clothes.

You know, 'cause he didn't want
you to look, you know,

too attractive, you know,
outside, without him,

'cause he felt like
you're his woman.

When Joy and Azriel's parents

started making this a big deal,

Rob was getting very paranoid,

and he didn't know
who was against him.

So, when my mom wanted
to see me,

he did want her to

go in the sauna
with just a towel.

So he could know
there's no cameras,

you're not trying to record...

Um, I don't remember
exactly what she...

he wanted her to write, but it
was something similar to

us trying to blackmail him
and use him for money.

NORCOTT:
According to some of the women

and their families,
they signed these documents;

and that seems to be
feeding into this idea

that we as a society

look for any shortcut
to blame victims,

calling them money-hungry,
celebrity hounds,

promiscuous;

and potentially,
by signing these documents,

what you're doing upfront is
undermining their credibility

to share reports about
their own victimization

or what's happened to them,
right up front.

When I left, he called me
and told me I had a week

to come back home, and if
I didn't come back home,

to lose his number.

But in order for me to come back
home, he wanted me to text him,

like, a long paragraph saying
that I'm sorry for disrespecting

his guests and some other crap.

And so once I sent him
that text,

then he would send for me.
And I never did.

It was basically, I guess,
something for him

to use against me.

Because I was like,
why would I text this,

and none of this happened?

JERHONDA: I asked him
what was this letter for?

He said, "You know,
I have people around me

"that try to bring me down.
I don't trust people.

Everybody that come around me
try to use me."

And he told that he wanted me
to write this letter

to make sure that I wasn't
one of those people.

I told him that this stuff
didn't happen.

He said, "Well, if none
of that stuff happened,

you wouldn't have a problem
writing it."

And I said, "Yeah, you're right.

I know that stuff didn't happen,
I'll write it for you."

And I wrote this letter,
and I signed it,

and he told me not to date it.
And I put the date on it.

And everything that I signed,
he told me not to date,

but I still put the date on it.

Dominique told me that
he made her sign a letter

saying that I abused her,

I beat her. [chuckles]

Sorry. Not this parent.

HALLE: There was a
time where he thought

I was looking at another man
or talking

or... texting
or something like that.

But we got into an altercation;

and I remember we were arguing
back and forth,

and I remember shoving him
because he was, like,

yelling in my face,
and then he, like,

grabbed me and I had
a necklace on,

so when he grabbed me,
my necklace broke,

and it scratched me.

And that's just like any other
relationship normally,

you know?

People get into altercations.
Things happen.

MAN [distorted voice]:
I was told that he choked her,

pinned her up against the door,

broke her necklace
that she was wearing,

and really roughed her up.

She had bruises on her face,
on her neck;

supposedly someone found her

outside in
the parking lot crying

after it happened.

They got into quite a bit
of physical fights.

Him being who he is,
things get more blown up

and, like, to, like,
he's a monster.

Not saying that it's,
any of it is okay.

It's things that happen
in every day's--

our, our friends,
our family members

could be dealing, they could be
dealing with the same thing.

ADEWALE:
Sometimes abuse at an early age

teaches you love is violence.

Teaches you love is
crossing my boundaries.

Some of these men
might actually love these women,

but they hurt them.

Some of these women
might believe

that love is hurt.

In most people's book,
hurt does not equal love.

HALLE:
I left a few times

and I would think
I would be done,

but you know, I would leave
feeling like I had nothing

or, you know,
when your heart's with somebody

and you just leave, that's hard.

You feel empty.
You feel like...

sometimes you feel worthless.

ADEWALE: It's possible
that these girls believed

if they left, their worlds
would fall apart.

A sexual abuser can also
make you feel

that you'll never, ever be happy
without him.

A sexual abuser
can make you feel like

"you'll never find someone
as good as me."

These are the ways
sexual abusers

use psychological manipulation
to control.

I would say what made me decide

to leave for good was,

you know, just being
in that situation for...

three and a half years.

I don't want to be with a man,
you know,

that wants other women.

Um, realizing that I have goals

and dreams that
I want to accomplish.

I definitely got lost
in that relationship.

But I definitely learned a lot
from it.

I do feel like the girls should
at least speak to their parents.

They should sit down, you know?

I know it's gonna be heated,
and a lot of things

are gonna be crazy,
but I feel like,

you know, family is everything,
and life is too short.

DeROGATIS:
Joy Savage,

the Savages' daughter,

was a young, aspiring singer
of legal age

who drops out of college
to begin living with Kelly.

Never made music again.

And the Clarys' daughter,

Azriel Clary...
It took a while for the Clarys

to open up
the way the Savages had.

There were months and months
of reporting,

and eventually
they went on the record

that their daughter Azriel,
who began sexual contact

while she was underage

in the state of Florida
with Kelly,

did the same thing.

Separates herself
from her family,

all of her friends.

No more contact with anybody

- and begins living with Kelly.
- Hey, it's Azriel,

and I'm gonna rock
the national anthem

for you guys,
and I hope you enjoy it.

Do either of you want to sing?

- No.
- No.

None of you have
any singing ambitions?

- No.
- No.

♪ Oh, say can you see ♪

♪ By the dawn's early light ♪

- JOYCELYN: No, I do not.
- AZRIEL: That's a l...

- That's another lie.
- KING: Okay.

Before I even met R. Kelly,

I told my parents
I did not want to sing.

My parents made singing,
like, a job

for me, so it's not something
I wanted to do.

Azriel was about seven or eight
when she started music,

and, um, I think
she just started humming first.

She would never hit full notes.

She could just hum
and hold notes humming.

And, uh, one day,
she just starts singing.

And she really opened up and...

hit a note that was like,
"Wow! Who said that?"

And they was like,
"That was Az."

And this and that,
and right from that day on,

we start taking it serious,

and we went-went forward

with trying to get her
vocal c-coaches

and, you know,
all the necessary steps

to make Azriel
into who she became.

ARMANI CLARY:
Azriel's ambitions

used to be

that she wanted

to be the next Beyoncé,
hands down.

Azriel's ambition now

is that she doesn't want
to sing.

And...

that hurts because

everything I worked for
was because I watched her

put so much hard work
into her craft.

That's my little sister.
Like, she inspired me,

and now she's not even inspired
to do anything.

I watched this man

manipulate my little sister.

Azriel...

doesn't want to believe
that he's a monster.

Whatever he's telling her

or whatever picture
he's painting for her,

he has it that he is an angel

and everyone else
in the whole world

is just a demon.

He felt like

he wasmy family.

So it's basically like,

"Your family really don't exist

"or they're not as important
because technically,

I'm the one
that's taking care of you."

You know, like,
"Your mother can't do this.

Your father can't do that."
And after a while,

you start to believe,
like, "Yeah, you know what?

"My parents really can't,

"you know,
afford to drop some money

on this and that
like he was able to."

And, to me,
I feel like he used that

because...

I mean, you're young.
You don't want to work.

This man's taking care of you,
paying all the bills,

'cause basically, it's like,
"Hey, you're here.

"I'm taking care of you,
you know?

"If you want them
to take care of you,

then go be with them."

GERALD GRIGGS:
The Savages have received a lot

of negative press,
a lot of backlash

from a lot of different sources.

Um, but the facts and evidence
speak for itself.

I've heard all these allegations

that the Savages
sold their daughter

and this was about money.

I believe it was the interview,

um, with Robert Sylvester Kelly

where he made
certain allegations

against
the Savage family directly

after speaking to Gayle King.

And so we hosted
a press conference

outside of my office

where I challenged
Mr. Kelly directly.

If there's no problem

and she's in a consensual,
loving relationship

with Mr. Robert Sylvester Kelly,

she could easily speak
to her two younger sisters,

her aunts, her uncles,
her immediate family.

We are in a battle

to make sure
that she is not a victim

to the allegations
that we've heard

and now the charges
that we've heard

against Robert Sylvester Kelly.

We asked for direct contact
with Joycelyn Savage.

We've been trying
to do it all other ways,

but we brought it directly
to the press.

It was livestreamed
around the world.

And about five minutes later,
I walk inside my office,

and the phone rings,
and it's Darrell Johnson,

the-the publicist.

And he's saying
that he has Joycelyn,

uh, on the phone.

She wants to call her parents.

JONJELYN:
Hello?

JOYCELYN:
Hello?

Hey, hello. This Joycelyn?

TIM:
I will do whatever it takes

to get Joycelyn out
of this situation

and to get
these other young ladies free.

WOMAN [crying]:
Yeah, I know she's here.

LEMIEUX:
R. Kelly's been arrested,

and the charges are damning.

NEWSWOMAN:
A federal grand jury

has indicted Kelly on 13 counts,

including child pornography,
enticement of a minor

and obstruction of justice.

I have never seen
so many charges

filed in so many jurisdictions

- against one celebrity.
- DeROGATIS: He is charged

with a federal
criminal enterprise

under the RICO statutes.

This is what they get

mobsters and drug gangs on.

What more do people need to see

that he really is a monster?

The SS R. Kelly

is sinking
to the bottom of the ocean.

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