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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,200 This programme contains strong language and adult themes. 2 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:12,680 (FOOTSTEPS APPROACH) 3 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,440 (GRUNTS LIGHTLY) I've never done this before. 4 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,600 I've never ever told my story. 5 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,120 I've had offers from the press to do it and... 6 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,040 I just never have, 7 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,560 because people don't believe it. 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,680 I sit there sometimes at home by myself... 9 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,960 and I can't believe it's happened. 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,240 I just think I've just woken up 11 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,320 and I've just dreamt it. 12 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,000 Then reality strikes and, you know, it wasn't, it was a nightmare. 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,440 (TENSE, DRAMATIC MUSIC) Would you like your fucking family 14 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:52,720 destroyed, buddy? Would you like it destroyed?! 15 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,120 No! 16 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,320 My name is Steve Sabine. 17 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:58,960 I'm one of five, 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,800 and I'm the second eldest. 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,720 My name is Jane Sabine. 20 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,760 My name's Lee-Ann Sabine. 21 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,920 I'm the youngest of five children. 22 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:12,039 JANE: I am the second youngest daughter 23 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,840 of Leigh and John Sabine. 24 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,320 REPORTER: Are you their mother? No, I am not their mother. 25 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,840 I've answered that one before! 26 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,720 Nah, bullshit. The whole thing was a lie. 27 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,760 Her whole life's been a lie, really. 28 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,680 (STATIC CRACKLES) You can move that off here, please. 29 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,920 JANE: They left us with nothing. 30 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:32,920 (DISTANT SHOUTING) We had to fight. 31 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:34,560 (MUFFLED SHOUTING CONTINUES) 32 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:37,960 Where are you taking Jane? Where are you- 33 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,280 Henderson Police Station. Henderson Police Station. 34 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:44,360 LEE-ANN: She was the lady that gave birth to me and gave me life... 35 00:01:45,479 --> 00:01:47,120 but she was not my mother. 36 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,240 It was always about her. 37 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,039 Everything she did was about her. 38 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,759 JANE: My mother... 39 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,920 was... a nasty, 40 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:00,760 horrible... 41 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,600 heartless bitch. 42 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:11,760 (MUSIC FADES) 43 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,600 (MELANCHOLY MUSIC & VOCALISING) 44 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,600 (OMINOUS MUSIC) (BIRDS CAWING) 45 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,360 REPORTER: Police were called here after human remains 46 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,480 were found within the grounds. 47 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,800 They say a man's body was found 48 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,920 above ground outside the flats, 49 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,320 concealed in plastic wrapping. 50 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:15,960 It's unprecedented, isn't it? 51 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,480 You know, uh, you don't hear 52 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,240 of this sort of thing in your own little village. 53 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,200 REPORTER: People living here have been shocked by the discovery. 54 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,040 MARY: I went to the doctor's and then I said, 55 00:03:27,079 --> 00:03:30,079 "Can you just give me a short dose of sleeping tablets?" 56 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:33,079 And he said, "You and most of the people in Beddau, 57 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,720 they've all been here asking for sleeping tablets." 58 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,720 (TENSE INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC) 59 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,320 (DOG BARKS) 60 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,640 LYNNE: It was a very eerie 61 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,079 feeling over the village; 62 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,320 to think something like this has happened 63 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,640 and nobody knows anything about it. 64 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,680 (BIRDS CAWING) 65 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,840 What we knew in this case was that the victim was a male. 66 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,800 We didn't know much else at this time. 67 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,280 We couldn't identify who the person was, 68 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,400 how they'd come to pass, who else could have been involved. 69 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,240 It was a real mystery, if I'm honest. 70 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,440 Our only suspect at this stage was Leigh Sabine. 71 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,279 But Leigh Sabine, she'd been ill for quite some time 72 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,160 and had died about a month earlier. 73 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,280 You know, everything was giving us the indication 74 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,440 that that body was reasonably fresh. 75 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,680 So, how on earth could this elderly woman, who lived alone, 76 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,880 be involved in what had happened? 77 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:35,480 It didn't make sense. 78 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,600 Did she have capability to commit a murder? 79 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,120 Did she have capability to wrap that body, 80 00:04:43,159 --> 00:04:46,200 to move that body, to store that body? 81 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:47,920 She didn't fit the profile 82 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:49,880 of a killer, you know, but... 83 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:51,720 you've got to keep an open mind. 84 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,760 (SOLEMN MUSIC) (KEYBOARD CLACKING) 85 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,320 We knew very little about Leigh Sabine 86 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,080 and we weren't really making much progress. 87 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,160 A lot of the information we had on her 88 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,240 was stuff she'd originated and just told people 89 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:12,280 in the Beddau community. 90 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:19,880 She was a likeable person, 91 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,480 very welcoming. 92 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,800 She was more than happy to invite us into her flat, 93 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:26,680 would offer us a cup of tea or a cup of coffee 94 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,880 and was happy, really, to... 95 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,320 to sit with you and-and just tell stories. 96 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,280 LYNNE: She liked to know our business. 97 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,840 She wanted to know about, you know, 98 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,800 how many children we'd got 99 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:45,840 and you know, have you got any grandchildren? 100 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,480 But if you started to probe a little bit more about her life, 101 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,159 she would shut the conversation down. 102 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,400 (MUSIC SWELLS) 103 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:07,440 OK. 104 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:11,040 Pretty soon after I started visiting Leigh in hospital, 105 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,400 she started telling people 106 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,440 that I was her executor. 107 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:19,360 Now, obviously I felt uncomfortable about this, 108 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,520 because I knew she had five children. 109 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,280 I found the fact that she had no contact with them strange, 110 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,160 but she certainly spoke of them in a very unemotional way. 111 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,960 There didn't seem to be any warmth or any connection. 112 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,400 So, I told the police this. 113 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,240 (GENTLE INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC) 114 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,560 LEE-ANN: So, a month after I heard 115 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,760 our mother had passed away, 116 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,360 I get this phone call out of the blue from the police. 117 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,480 (PHONE RINGS) 118 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,480 And they said that they found 119 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,040 a body in the garden, 120 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,280 but they didn't know who the body was. 121 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,200 I was taken back a bit. 122 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,400 I hadn't seen my mother in... 123 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,280 oh, a long time. 124 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,480 Like, a long time. 125 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,640 (IDYLLIC MUSIC) 126 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,280 JANE: Within the family, there is 127 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,200 our oldest sister, then there's Steven, 128 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,000 then there's Marty, 129 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,159 then there's me, and then there's Lee-Ann. 130 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,920 My earliest memory would be 131 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,600 my father gathering up the kids 132 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,000 and taking us for a walk down the road... 133 00:07:57,159 --> 00:07:59,360 carrying me on his shoulders. 134 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,720 And I felt so special. 135 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,640 (MUSIC CONTINUES) 136 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:09,920 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 137 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,600 STEVE: Where we lived, there was creeks. 138 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,960 Our father taught us to swim. 139 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,000 We used to swim a lot. 140 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,960 And I used to go alright at breaststroke, was my stroke. 141 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:30,280 (CHUCKLES) 142 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,520 The only one I didn't sink in, I think. 143 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,880 (UPBEAT JAZZ MUSIC) 144 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,799 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 145 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,919 I remember my mum wanted to be... 146 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,560 make it as a cabaret singer. 147 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,000 She just thought she was Shirley Bassey or something. 148 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,360 And I remember going to at least a couple of gigs. 149 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,840 # Nothing else feels like Getting enough 150 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,240 # Sunshine... 151 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,800 One in Auckland where we had to sit around 152 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:03,320 and wait for her to perform. 153 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,320 I would only have been five or six. 154 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,160 # Feeling on top... 155 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,000 Just sat in the end behind the stage. 156 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,640 # I never let this feeling 157 00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:16,960 # Pass me by 158 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:21,760 # Never felt happier... # (MUSIC FADES) 159 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,200 I was a pretty happy chappy at that point. 160 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:30,880 And then, this one day, 161 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,480 I remember seeing suitcases packed... 162 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,680 (OMINOUS MUSIC) 163 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,800 ..then hopping in a taxi. 164 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,760 STEVE: My parents dropped us in a day care in Auckland. 165 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,960 I just remember us getting there and them saying, 166 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,920 "We'll be back in a couple of days to grab you." 167 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,360 Just got in the car and drove away. 168 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,520 They were just gone. 169 00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:03,720 Boom, gone. 170 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,760 I would have been seven years old. 171 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,760 Martin would have been five, 172 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:10,400 Jane would have been four, 173 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,440 Lee-Ann would have been over a year old. 174 00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:17,640 The first few days after that, 175 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:20,680 we used to get out the gate and watch for them to come. 176 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:22,720 (GENTLE, SOLEMN MUSIC) 177 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,920 We all used to think that every plane, every taxi, 178 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,200 carried our parents, you know? 179 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,240 Every day you'd be looking, "Oh, they're coming, they're coming." 180 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,040 But they just never did. 181 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,960 They never came back. 182 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,920 (SOFT, OMINOUS MUSIC) 183 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,560 I always wondered why they left, 184 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,360 but I used to believe 185 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,240 we had done something wrong to upset them and they'd gone, 186 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,280 because why else would your parents drop you and run, you know? 187 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:00,680 (MUSIC FADES) 188 00:11:02,728 --> 00:11:04,720 (AMBIENT STREET NOISE) 189 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,760 (INQUISITIVE MUSIC) 190 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,880 The discovery of these children opened up 191 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,680 loads of opportunities for us from an investigative point of view, 192 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,120 so we wanted to take advantage of that. 193 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:25,920 We made an approach to the authorities 194 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,120 in New Zealand, um, asked for their assistance and support. 195 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,560 Looked into their archives, their records. 196 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,680 And that's when we started to pick up a number of headlines. 197 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:37,520 (MUSIC INTENSIFIES) 198 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,200 The headlines caused me real concern. 199 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,400 When our parents abandoned us, it was the... 200 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,040 one of the first cases of that kind of thing 201 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,440 in New Zealand at the time, and it made all the papers. 202 00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:58,360 Reporters turned up. 203 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,760 We didn't totally understand what was going on. 204 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:04,920 As a couple, John and Leigh Sabine 205 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,200 were sought after by the authorities for some 18 months. 206 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,240 (FRANTIC MUSIC) 207 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,440 Trying to locate them to bring 'em back, 208 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,280 hold them to account for what they'd done. 209 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:18,760 They were in a nationwide manhunt. 210 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,600 The police were looking for them everywhere, here and Australia. 211 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:22,800 (PHONE RINGS) 212 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,640 It was also apparent that the Australian and New Zealand police 213 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:29,640 had had real difficulties in tracing John and Leigh Sabine, 214 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,440 mainly due to the fact that they were using aliases. 215 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,040 John and Lee Jones, John and Lee Martin. 216 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,200 They're going from one country to another... 217 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,440 so that she could pursue her cabaret singing career. 218 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,280 (PENSIVE MUSIC) 219 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,760 When Leigh introduced herself to us the first time we met her, 220 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,960 she couldn't wait to tell us about her past. 221 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,880 (CABARET MUSIC) 222 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,600 She'd been a successful singer back in New Zealand. 223 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,840 She said that she'd done many cabaret acts 224 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,000 and she loved the high life. 225 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,800 # ..Still think That life could be... 226 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,480 One day, I'd been up in Beddau doing my local rounds. 227 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,680 Leigh said that she had to go 228 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,520 because she was going to the hairdresser's 229 00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:23,400 to have her hair done and makeup done 230 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,680 because there was a film crew coming from New Zealand. 231 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,080 They were doing a programme called "Where Are They Now?" 232 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:31,720 about famous people. 233 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,600 It was for a documentary they were doing in New Zealand, 234 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,640 who were looking for, 235 00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:39,920 basically, older famous people 236 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,080 that have seemed to have just drifted off the scene. 237 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,360 Me thinking, was she ever really that famous 238 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,280 as a cabaret singer and dancer 239 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,680 that they would want to be finding out where she is? 240 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,360 # I kept my stiff upper lip... 241 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,600 And she was like, up on the- with the pillars, you know. 242 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,640 Her hands up and, like, giving the pose and everything. 243 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:01,080 # Then you came along 244 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,960 # And you showed me they way... # 245 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,600 (LAUGHS) And yeah, so, yeah, God she was loving it. 246 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,880 I thought then, "Oh my God, she was bigger than what, 247 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,560 you know, what I thought she was." 248 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,240 (MUSIC CONCLUDES) (APPLAUSE) 249 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,840 GARETH: Was she a cabaret singer? 250 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,400 You know, was that actual truth or was that another story 251 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,240 that she'd spun? 252 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,840 But they got found by the press, 253 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,520 and they ended up 254 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,120 talking to the press and giving their side of the story. 255 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,160 (URGENT MUSIC) 256 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:39,720 STEVE: (READS) "Lee Jones 257 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,680 broke down and cried in Perth yesterday 258 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,160 as she told about the five young children 259 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,400 she and her hu- her husband 260 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,920 left in New Zealand 15 months ago. 261 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,120 We never intended to desert our children. 262 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,160 We hoped to give the kids the good life." 263 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,480 That's just bullshit. 264 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,120 There's nothing else to say on that. It's just crap. 265 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,600 JANE: Then it hit the newspapers 266 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,120 and it all came out. 267 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,680 I can't imagine 268 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,120 how my parents just didn't come back. 269 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,720 It's like, who did they think was looking after us? 270 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,240 How do they carry on with their life 271 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,760 knowing they've got five children 272 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,600 running around, could be hurt, 273 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,320 you know? 274 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,440 Just don't know what kind of human beings do that. 275 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,920 Just to be famous? 276 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:37,880 Oh, she dumped us for fame, alright. 277 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,920 That's what she thought she was gonna get. 278 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,520 (APPLAUSE) 279 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,200 She wasn't. 280 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,240 (LAUGHS) She wasn't that good. 281 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,840 So, she wasn't a famous, successful cabaret singer. 282 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,520 Um, yes, she sang in the odd bar and nightclub 283 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,440 for not a lot of money. 284 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,040 So Leigh Sabine, despite giving the persona 285 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,960 of a cabaret singer, 286 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,000 someone who loved to tell a story... 287 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,480 had a real selfish side, a dark side. 288 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,320 You know, a mother who was able to abandon her five children, 289 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:15,800 move to another country, 290 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,320 and not really give them a second thought. 291 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:19,920 But we need evidence. 292 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,920 We need hard evidence to prove 293 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,120 that the killer is Leigh Sabine, 294 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:26,880 if-if it is Leigh Sabine. 295 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,960 (INVESTIGATIVE MUSIC) (KEYBOARD CLACKING) 296 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,800 (PHONE RINGS) 297 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,280 GARETH: Forensic examination of the packaging 298 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,080 was going to be really important 299 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,480 to see if there's any opportunity 300 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,480 to yield any forensic evidence which will take the case forward. 301 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,320 It was significant packaging; 302 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,200 14 sheets... 303 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,320 wrapped around 41 times. 304 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,400 So it was a really challenging and difficult job. 305 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,920 (TENSE, OMINOUS MUSIC) 306 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,480 We were mainly looking for fingerprints of the perpetrator, 307 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,560 you know, the person who had wrapped 308 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,119 this poor victim up multiple times, really. 309 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,119 We underestimated, I suppose, the size of the wrappings. 310 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,440 They were so big; I'd say about 12-foot long. 311 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,520 How on earth would we... 312 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,079 How would we deal with something like that? 313 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,320 SAMANTHA: Our fingerprint lab wasn't really 314 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:32,680 equipped for that kind of exhibit size, 315 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,800 so we was almost thinking off the spot and creating a mini lab. 316 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,040 (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC) (SHUTTER CRANKS) 317 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:44,080 JOANNE: We had a garage at the time. 318 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:46,160 It had roller shutter doors at the end. 319 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,040 That was good for ventilation. 320 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,120 So, we decided to move the wrappings 321 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,360 and put them in there. 322 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,520 It was Samantha who came up with the idea of making a washing line 323 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,760 that went from one side of the garage to the other. 324 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:06,640 Best idea ever. 325 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,560 We were able to put these layers over the top of this line, 326 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,520 which took up the width of most of the garage, 327 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,200 to be honest, just to give you the scale. 328 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,240 (TENSE MUSIC) 329 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,080 JOANNE: You have to meticulously 330 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:27,880 look in every crook 331 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,880 and every cranny for fingerprints. 332 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,640 I don't think we ever realised 333 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,200 the enormous task that was ahead, 334 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,600 and this wasn't just a couple of days, 335 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,360 this was gonna take weeks. 336 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,200 (MUSIC CONTINUES) 337 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,560 (SHEEP BLEAT) 338 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,400 (SOLEMN INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC) 339 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:04,920 STEVE: So, my brothers and sisters, 340 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,760 we bounced between homes a fair bit. 341 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,760 I'm not actually sure how many 342 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,720 homes or places I went to, 343 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,560 but it felt like a lot. 344 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,880 We never got any nurturing or anything like that. 345 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,600 I can still remember talking to a foster parent, and, um, I says, 346 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,680 "Oh, when my parents come back," and she says, "They didn't want you. 347 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:35,720 No one wants ya." 348 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,920 JANE: There was no love. There was no... 349 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,680 attachments. 350 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,960 We didn't get shown the necessities. 351 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,960 Like, we didn't get shown how to brush teeth properly. 352 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,360 Yeah, you always felt like a second-class citizen. 353 00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:59,760 Mm. 354 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,200 (MUSIC FADES) 355 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,280 I mostly watched my brothers and sisters 356 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,280 getting beaten up, 357 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,320 thrown on walls and... 358 00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:15,880 and I would just cry, 359 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,960 watching, terrified, scared that they were gonna get killed. 360 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,000 One foster father... 361 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,000 in particular was very abusive, 362 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,320 mentally and physically. 363 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:29,560 (GARAGE DOOR SQUEAKS OPEN) 364 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,800 Marty and I had pet mice. 365 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,640 One was a white one. 366 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,120 One was a brown one. 367 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,840 Any bit of pocket money we got, we'd buy the little wheel 368 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,440 that they swing around on, 369 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,680 all the bells, all the balls. 370 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,480 It was just something we had, you know, 371 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,880 that... that we could love. 372 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,600 And this one day, 373 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,000 this foster father said, 374 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,160 "Come to the garage." 375 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,360 (OMINOUS MUSIC) 376 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,080 And he gave us a hammer each, 377 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:07,760 and he said, "Now... 378 00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:10,320 kill them." 379 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,760 Well, there was no way I was gonna kill that mouse. 380 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,240 And I started crying. 381 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,880 Marty just took my hammer... 382 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,240 and he killed both the mice. 383 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,000 (GARAGE DOOR SQUEAKS) 384 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,840 (THUDS CLOSED) 385 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,960 The foster father, he ruled that house 386 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,000 with fear and intimidation. 387 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:47,840 Just a horrible man. 388 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,320 Horrible, horrible man. 389 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:52,720 Very violent. 390 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,760 (SINISTER MUSIC) 391 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,320 He did some horrible things to Jane 392 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:04,040 and LeeAnn. Um... 393 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,680 And, you know, and... 394 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,920 there's nothing I can do about that. 395 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,480 I remember the f- very first time 396 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,120 that the sexual abuse happened. 397 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,720 LEE-ANN: I thought it was just normal, you know. 398 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,840 The foster father would... 399 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,960 pull me into his room, 400 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,200 um, and shut the door, 401 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,400 or he would come into my bed 402 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,440 after he had finished night shift. 403 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,640 No one believed us. 404 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,360 I mean... 405 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,120 they just told us we were lying, making stuff up, 406 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,160 and it happened all the time. 407 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,000 I was just holding out for the day that 408 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,200 our parents would come back and save me 409 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,160 from what we were going through. 410 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,360 (INHALES DEEPLY) 411 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,400 (BIRDS CAWING) 412 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,680 (FOREBODING MUSIC) (DOG BARKING) 413 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,840 (MUSIC INTENSIFIES) 414 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,960 The wrappings ended up taking so much longer 415 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,200 'cause you would open the exhibit bag... 416 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,720 and you can see the effort that someone's gone into 417 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,760 to try to conceal this body. 418 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,120 Inside, you would have hundreds and hundreds of different 419 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,960 pieces of extra tape, 420 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,040 you know, you've got rope, bungees. 421 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,960 JOANNE: We had tin foil, Tesco carrier bag. 422 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,600 We had to examine each and every one of them many times. 423 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,600 Itemising everything that we've found. 424 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,720 Every wrapping that we opened got worse and worse; 425 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,920 very heavily contaminated 426 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,000 with what I believe is body fluids. 427 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,880 So it was very hard to pick it up 428 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,880 'cause it was falling through your fingers. 429 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,640 And it was hard to examine 'cause it was so thick and, like, gloopy. 430 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,600 (SINISTER MUSIC) 431 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,280 JOANNE: We found fingerprints. 432 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:33,960 We got excited. We thought it was brilliant. 433 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,080 (CAMERA CLICKS) 434 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,160 This is a piece of adhesive tape 435 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,720 that was originally on the body wrappings used to conceal the body. 436 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,840 You can see there's some areas that have been picked up 437 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,280 that look like a fingerprint. 438 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,680 But we needed an expert 439 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,320 to confirm if this was a fingerprint or not. 440 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,480 It was a really exciting time then, 441 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,040 sending off that... that-that forensic evidence 442 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,000 and hoping that this occasion 443 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:05,800 we were gonna be able to identify 444 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,280 Leigh Sabine as a suspect in this crime. 445 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,240 (MUSIC FADES) 446 00:25:15,288 --> 00:25:17,280 (AMBIENT STREET NOISE) 447 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,480 (SINISTER MUSIC) 448 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,160 JANE: When we were discharged from care, 449 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,040 I was dropped at a homeless shelter 450 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,080 in Auckland City. 451 00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:41,000 STEVE: I-I got a job. I left school. 452 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,040 Got locked up a few times. 453 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,480 We were sort of in and out of each other's lives a little bit. 454 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,040 JANE: Me and Marty had always stayed close. 455 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,240 There's only, like, 13 months between me and Marty, 456 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,320 so we were pretty much connected. 457 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,280 Jane and Martin, they were tight. 458 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:05,360 Marty was my... 459 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:06,960 partner... 460 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,360 in crime, so to speak. 461 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,240 He met me one day 462 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,600 and he was with this beautiful girl, 463 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,520 and her name was Jodene. 464 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,440 My name's Jodene Harris 465 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,440 and my first ever boyfriend was Martin Sabine. 466 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,280 Love of my life. 467 00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:34,680 He was a cutie, cutie patootie. 468 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,200 When he walked into a room, he would just light up the room. 469 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,400 He just had the biggest, cheekiest smile. 470 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,480 That's what, um, you know, 471 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,520 I fell in love with straightaway. 472 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,840 As I got to know him, 473 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,640 he sort of would tell me stories about his childhood. 474 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,360 He would often... 475 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,280 think that he was bad 476 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,960 because... 477 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,600 some of the things that he was forced to do 478 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,280 when he was in foster care, 479 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,720 like having to kill their pet... mice. 480 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,240 He wasn't a bad kid at all. He was... 481 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,760 just troubled, you know? 482 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,600 (SIGHS) 483 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,320 So, Martin and I had been together... 484 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:30,520 about... 485 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,440 nearly two years, 486 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,160 and Martin came home one day and said that 487 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,960 he'd had a phone call from his mother. 488 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,640 And I said, "Your mother?" And he said, 489 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,040 "Yeah, my mum. My mum, my birth mum." 490 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,440 And I said, "What?!" Couldn't believe it. "WHAT?!" 491 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,680 STEVE: I was living in a halfway house in Grafton. 492 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,240 I was 22 years old 493 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,000 and I hadn't seen any of my siblings for a while... 494 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,840 and someone said, "The phone's for you." 495 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,320 I went down... 496 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,520 and answered the phone, 497 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,360 and it was a guy and he goes, 498 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,000 "Steven, this is your dad, John." 499 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,400 And I says, "This better be not a fucking joke, 500 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:18,520 or I'll hunt you down." 501 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,480 And he goes, "No, it's no joke." 502 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,520 He told me the story that, 503 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,640 you know, they were too scared to come back, 504 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,720 but, um, "Now... 505 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,880 we wanna get the family back together and we wanna start again." 506 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,160 And I... Then I just went numb. 507 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,640 Oh, Martin was beside himself. 508 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,840 He was SO happy and he couldn't wait to, like, 509 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,360 get the girls together, the family together. 510 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,400 I didn't believe Marty when he told me that our parents were back, 511 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,080 because he was a bit of a joker and that. 512 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,600 Well, I just was like... 513 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,480 so excited. 514 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,080 We get there, and Marty says, "Come on," 515 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,720 and he's first out of the car, and I follow him up the steps. 516 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,640 And I walk down the hallway 517 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,120 and then I bump into my mother, 518 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,200 and she says... 519 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,520 "Oh, my... 520 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,480 darling baby." 521 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,440 She went to give me a hug 522 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,000 and I stepped back. 523 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,080 I was like... you know? 524 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,480 Feel like a stranger had just come up to me. 525 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,080 I didn't feel like it was real. 526 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,440 JANE: They had said that we were welcome to come and stay. 527 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,120 I thought, "Yes!" 528 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,000 I moved back first 529 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,080 and then Martin was like a day or two after me. 530 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,600 Then Jane and Leanne moved back in, 531 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,960 and it was quite cool, actually. 532 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,240 Finally, I actually had a... 533 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,400 my own home. 534 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,120 Marty... was so happy. 535 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,320 All he ever wanted was that family, 536 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,560 that mum, that dad, and live happily ever after. 537 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,600 You'd sort of dreamed about what it would be like 538 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,840 and what would happened if they come back 539 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,160 and things like that. 540 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,200 I thought, "Well, this is meant to be," you know? 541 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,040 (BIRDS CHIRPING) 542 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,560 JANE: It was all really good. My mother would get up at like, 543 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,520 about like four o'clock in the morning 544 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,640 and start cooking dinner for that night. 545 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,680 (GENTLE MUSIC) 546 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,440 She would cook the dinner with a cigarette in her hand 547 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,360 and a wine in the other hand. 548 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:38,960 And I used to think, "I hope that ash 549 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,400 doesn't fall in the food!" (LAUGHS) 550 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,440 She used to smoke, like, 551 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,560 those long cigarettes 552 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,040 and she used to... 553 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,440 you know, the way she talked, "Oh, darling... 554 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,840 tell me how your day was." 555 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,760 JANE: She had this sort of, like, 556 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,600 posh kind of persona. 557 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,080 I found her very... 558 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,040 over the top, like, 559 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,440 I think I felt like she was... fake. 560 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,680 I didn't really think about that, I just thought 561 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,320 my mum and dad are back 562 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,360 and we can be a family again. 563 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,400 (MUSIC CONTINUES) 564 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,840 So, for the first week or two, 565 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,520 it was really nice. 566 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,760 It was... it was everything you'd ever want. 567 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,280 But then that ended. 568 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,160 I... would tell our mother 569 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,440 about things that happened to us, 570 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,240 abuse that had happened 571 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,040 in the homes that we were in. 572 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,320 At the time, when I felt 573 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,560 unable to tell people about the abuse 574 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,960 that was going on... 575 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,920 I wrote poetry. 576 00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,360 I... 577 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,400 wrote a poem... 578 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,640 that said: 579 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,800 "Is the big bad wolf false or fiction? 580 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,560 He's entered my world. 581 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,680 I see his picture. 582 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,320 He enters my room, 583 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,160 wide, smiling face. 584 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:17,880 He silently whispers, 585 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,000 "Move over, make space." 586 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,480 I cannot explain Mr. Wolf's charm, 587 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,000 for although he is gentle 588 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,560 I know he means harm. 589 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,560 He leads me, he guides me, 590 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,400 he shows me the way. 591 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,920 But his only motive is to make me his prey." 592 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,920 I remember the look on her face 593 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,520 was... 594 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,040 like, "I don't wanna hear it," type look. 595 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,120 She didn't wanna talk about how we were brought up. 596 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,520 Although I was happy for them to be back 597 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,760 and it was all I had hoped for... 598 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,800 I needed answers. 599 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,280 I wanted to... to know 600 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,040 what was their reason for leaving, and not coming back. 601 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,920 And she quite bluntly said... 602 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:13,240 "Oh, I don't feel we owe you an explanation." 603 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,120 And I'm sitting there thinking, "What the..." 604 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,400 I don't know what they expected. 605 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,440 Did they not think that we were going to ask, 606 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,720 "Where have you been?" 607 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,800 I just didn't wanna rock the boat. 608 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:32,200 I just wanted to get this family thing sorted and... 609 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,920 life would move on, you know? 610 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,800 But Jane wasn't scared to rock the boat. 611 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,640 She could have said anything. She could have said, "I'm sorry." 612 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,440 "I'm sorry" would have been great. 613 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,120 There was no smidge of a acknowledgement whatsoever. 614 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,400 I wasn't prepared to accept that. 615 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,040 When I asked again, 616 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,080 "Why did you leave us?" 617 00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,240 she'd had enough. 618 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,080 And she kicked Jane out. 619 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,720 And then she kicked me out! 620 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,280 (DOOR SLAMS) 621 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,480 I still wanted those answers 622 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,040 and I was gonna do anything to get them. 623 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,320 And that's when it all blew up. 624 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:14,679 (DRAMATIC MUSIC) 625 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,159 I felt well going to the media would give me some answers. 626 00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:22,400 A film crew came over from Australia, Channel 9. 627 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,520 They had asked 628 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,440 if we would take them into the property, which we did. 629 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,320 Well, I went along with Jane 630 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,560 and the film crew 631 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,920 to our parents' house, and... 632 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,639 they get us to go and knock on the door. 633 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,080 (KNOCKING ON DOOR) 634 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,080 Anyone home? 635 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:49,360 Hi. Hi. 636 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,600 Mr Sabine. Wait! 637 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,040 Mr Sabine, we are from the Michael Willesee Show 638 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,880 in Sydney, Australia, sir. 639 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,600 Mr Sabine? The police are on their way. 640 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,000 Mr Sabine, we only want to have a chat to you, sir. 641 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,720 Not the way you're doing it. Sorry. We'll turn the cameras off, sir. 642 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,520 No one's hurting you, but me and Lee-Ann 643 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,600 and that's because you hurt us. 644 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,440 My father kept telling them, "Just go away, just go away." 645 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,680 Right there was a window that was wide open 646 00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:16,280 that I could fit through. 647 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,280 These journalists wanted a story. 648 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,400 They noticed the window, actually, 649 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,920 and said, "Would you be prepared to climb through there?" 650 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,120 Me wanting to be a pleaser 651 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,600 and get the answers I wanted, "Yeah, I'll do that." 652 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,920 So, when I climbed through the window, 653 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,560 I opened the door. 654 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,000 That allowed the film crew into the house. 655 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,520 They just kept filming the whole time. 656 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:44,720 (OVERLAPPING ARGUING) 657 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,560 You owe us an explanation. 658 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,440 If you'd done it properly, I would have done. 659 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,040 No, you wouldn't. Yes, we would. 660 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,560 We stood at the door- I tried to get a reconciliation. 661 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,440 Why did you call us mental retards? Stop touching my sister! 662 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,520 Why did you call us mental retards... 663 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,040 'It turned into a screaming match.' 664 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,920 (ARGUING CONTINUES) 665 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,160 Please get out the house. I'll tell the police. 666 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,920 (DOOR SLAMS) My mother saying, 667 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,320 "Who are you? You're not even my daughter, go away." 668 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,480 So, my mother, she rang me and she said, 669 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,760 "You've got to get home. Journalists everywhere." 670 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,000 You can do me for assault but if that cameras don't stop, 671 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,680 it'll go down your fucking throat. Hold on, mate, it's a public- I was angry, alright. 672 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,120 Would you like your fucking family destroyed, buddy? 673 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,880 (STATIC CRACKLES) Much too... You can move that off here, please. 674 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,320 (SCREAMING AND SHOUTING) 675 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,920 It got heated and I threw a punch 676 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,800 that connected with my mother. 677 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,840 (SCREAMING AND SHOUTING) 678 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,120 And she rang the police on me. 679 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,080 Where are you taking Jane? Where are you- 680 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,320 Henderson Police Station. Henderson Police Station. 681 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,160 And you can't tell us any more about that? 682 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,320 Leigh was really angry with Jane. 683 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,480 "How could you do that? That bloody little bitch," you know. 684 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,960 Jane had challenged her... 685 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,040 and my mother was that angry. 686 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,960 You could see the rage in her. 687 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,320 And I sort of looked at her and I thought, "My God... 688 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,120 she could kill someone." 689 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,040 (BIRDSONG) 690 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,440 (UNSETTLING MUSIC BUILDS) 691 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,480 REPORTER: Police in Pontypridd are continuing a murder investigation 692 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,560 after a man's body was discovered hidden 693 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,160 in plastic wrapping at a block of flats 694 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,440 in the Beddau area of the town. 695 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,560 (KEYBOARD CLACKING) 696 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,080 Obviously, a lot of work was still ongoing in the background, 697 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,080 particularly around the forensics. 698 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,200 I receive a phone call then, and an update from our team. 699 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,000 They'd done significant work, going through the packaging, 700 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,920 detail, inch-by-inch... 701 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,320 but they'd unfortunately not been able to recover 702 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:07,840 any fingerprint evidence 703 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,360 which was going to help us identify a suspect. 704 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,040 SAMANTHA: It was a tricky one. 705 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,280 The ones we found that looked like fingerprints 706 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:18,880 turned out not to be. 707 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,920 JOANNE: At the end, they decided that it was the adhesive 708 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,520 mixed in with the body fluids, 709 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,520 rather than a fingerprint mark. 710 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,800 Of course, it's a real blow, but it wasn't all bad news... 711 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,280 because within that packaging, 712 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,320 there was a number of things they had picked out; 713 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,760 certain fibres and other things of value. 714 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,360 But the most significant find was a piece of hair. 715 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,400 That was a major bit of information. 716 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,600 (LOCK BEEPS) 717 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,960 We were quite keen to understand who that belonged to. 718 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,560 It was compared for the DNA of the victim, 719 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,600 and it was found not to be a match. 720 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,960 That again brought additional excitement in the investigation team 721 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,040 'cause what we've got there is a foreign piece of DNA, 722 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,280 potentially belonged to Leigh Sabine. 723 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,400 (AMBIENT STREET NOISE) 724 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,760 (CAMERA CLICKS) 725 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,880 REPORTER: Jane, how do you feel now that 726 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,680 today's events seem to be over? 727 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:36,000 Um, I don't know. 728 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,360 When I got arrested, 729 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,000 I was furious. 730 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,800 And I wrote a letter 731 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,320 to the Minister of Social Welfare. 732 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,920 I wanted them charged with child abandonment 733 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,840 because I feel they should be accountable. 734 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,800 Steven and Martin were pissed off. 735 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,320 I was angry alright, 736 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,080 because I actually felt like we had a chance to be a family, 737 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,280 you know, and that's all I'd ever wanted. 738 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,280 Steven and Martin, they were still living there. 739 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,080 They wanted to... 740 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,080 stay and be a family. 741 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,280 I was still clinging on, so was Martin. 742 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,880 REPORTER: For the first time, the sons who live here 743 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,280 with the long-lost parents spoke out. 744 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,400 Martin and I got an interview done 745 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,360 to say, "Hey, can you leave us alone?" 746 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,760 You can't keep dragging up the past. 747 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,800 Y-You gotta keep on going. 748 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,680 REPORTER: But they say they cannot forgive their two younger sisters 749 00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:39,720 for going public about their parents' return. 750 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,200 Yeah, it was the boys against the girls. 751 00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:44,880 I dunno, we seem to get along with them alright. 752 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,880 They just... 753 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,640 can't handle being told what to do. 754 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,320 You're living with your parents, 755 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,160 not-not relying on foster parents or anything, 756 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,280 which they never really treated you the same as their own kids. 757 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,200 It's just... It's just good to have your own parents. 758 00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:03,800 REPORTER: They say their parents are living with a lot of shame 759 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,600 and fear and the hope they will 760 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,880 not be prosecuted for child abandonment. 761 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,880 The letter requesting that my parents be 762 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,320 charged with child abandonment... 763 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:16,920 was declined. 764 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,080 No charges would be brought against them, 765 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,080 due to the fact my two brothers 766 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,920 wished to remain and have some kind of relationship with them. 767 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:28,760 (SOLEMN, PENSIVE MUSIC) 768 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,360 But people were angry. 769 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,200 We only wanted to give you the right of reply. 770 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:39,400 You should have phoned before you... JANE: And people wanted 771 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,040 blood, basically. 772 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,200 And they too thought 773 00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:46,360 our parents should be accountable. 774 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,840 And then it just blew up. 775 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,320 STEVE: They got hounded by the press. 776 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,560 My mother thought, "Oh, here we fucking go again. 777 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,520 The press are coming." You know? 778 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,120 And it was panic time, it really was. 779 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,880 And it spiralled out of control for her, you know? 780 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,920 REPORTER: Are you their mother? 781 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,320 No, I'm not their mother and I've answered that one before. 782 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,560 And then they ran away, and we're all left. 783 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,520 Leigh and John, I think their main 784 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,480 concern was ending up in jail, 785 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,520 so they left in the dead of night. 786 00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:30,440 They went to the UK. 787 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,240 They were here one day, gone the next. 788 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,120 They didn't want us from the start, did they? 789 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,040 I mean, like, I feel like I've never had 790 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,920 a real sense of belonging, 791 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,280 and I may as well carry on... with that. 792 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,000 REPORTER: So, what are you gonna do now? 793 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:48,960 Just carry on my life, 794 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,560 just with me and Jane. 795 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,520 If they don't want us, then... 796 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,200 it's hard luck for us. 797 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,640 Yeah, it's pretty hard to comprehend what sort of people do that. 798 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,520 STEVE: That's how my mother was, 799 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,320 and it's what she did. 800 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:10,600 She didn't wanna be questioned, 801 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,480 she didn't wanna be made to feel accountable. 802 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,720 She didn't want to... 803 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,760 have to answer to anybody. 804 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,920 STEVE: Then if she got challenged... 805 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,800 she would run away. 806 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,760 (SOLEMN MUSIC) 807 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,640 Once we started to unpick the life of Leigh Sabine, 808 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,520 the picture we were getting better was someone who was actually 809 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,680 quite robust, quite selfish, 810 00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:41,360 um, quite aggressive, uh... 811 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,840 and who had a willingness to, you know, do whatever it took 812 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,680 to protect herself. 813 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,320 Obviously, great news that we had found this forensic DNA... 814 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,560 but we needed to connect it to someone. 815 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,880 GARETH: Sadly, we didn't have her DNA on record 816 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,040 and that was a real challenge. 817 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,080 And then it occurred to me that she'd been 818 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,680 in palliative care prior to her death. 819 00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:06,320 So I sent some detectives 820 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,360 to make some enquiries there with the doctors, 821 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,200 just to see if they retained any blood, any tissue samples. 822 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,040 And I was able to recover some slides 823 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:17,960 and derive a DNA sample 824 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,120 of Leigh Sabine, which we were able to compare 825 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,440 to-to the hair that was recovered from the packaging. 826 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,800 And we were lucky that when that sample did actually come back, 827 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,760 it was a positive match for Leigh Sabine. 828 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,640 So, that was a real breakthrough. 829 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,160 That instantly puts her firmly 830 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,520 as a prime suspect in the case. 831 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,960 REPORTER: This woman is now at the centre of a murder investigation, 832 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,640 but police can't arrest and question her 833 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,520 because she died from cancer two months ago. 834 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,880 GARETH: So far, Leigh Sabine was the only person that had 835 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,480 any association with the body found in the garden. 836 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,320 But we still didn't know who the victim was. 837 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,520 We had no idea who the victim was. 838 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,480 (SOLEMN MUSIC) 839 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,120 When my parents left for the UK, 840 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,320 Marty was really... broken. 841 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,400 He wouldn't speak to me after that. 842 00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:13,880 Oh, he was devastated. 843 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,160 His world came crashing down around him, 844 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,080 and so he was just saying, you know, "Do you mind if I go?" 845 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,120 and "I'm gonna go, I don't wanna lose them" 846 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:24,960 and, you know, and I said, 847 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,320 "Yeah, go. Do what you need to do." 848 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,320 And so he did. 849 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,520 You're living with your parents, 850 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,080 not-not relying on foster parents or anything. 851 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,520 'Cause they never really treated you the same as their own kids. 852 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,280 It's just good to have your own parents. 853 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,040 And that's the last time I seen Martin alive. 854 00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:50,240 (SOLEMN MUSIC) 855 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,120 Subtitles by Sky Access Services www.skyaccessibility.sky 63998

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