All language subtitles for I AM A KILLER_S01E04_Sympathy for the Devil.en.closedcaptions

[signal bell ringing]

[man] It's difficult for me
to go back and...

and try to quantify how I felt
or what I was thinking.

To actually be able to put myself
into the situation.

It always-- for a long time, I know,

it seemed that I was looking at it
from outside...

It just seemed like watching
something on the screen.

Not as something
that I was really experiencing.

My name is, uh, Miguel Angel Martinez.

I was convicted of capital murder.
And I was sentenced to death.

[man 1]
And I walked up, I fired one shot.

And as I got closer,
I fired one more shot.

[man 2] She was shot through the cheek
and it stopped in her jaw.

[man 3] I drove him around behind a desk
and I stabbed him approximately 25 times.

[man 4] I couldn't believe it.

I just thought I can't believe
I just killed somebody.

[man 5]
I don't feel bad about it. [laughs]

[man 6] I started stabbing him,
stabbing the guy on the couch.

I look back and I don't see myself
having a very different life

or experience than most average teenagers.

Going to school, meeting people,
wanting to go out to parties.

I remember it was a, uh...

it was a weekday, but I think
we were on vacation for something.

It was in the early afternoon
that I saw Venegas,

who I knew from school.

I had one class with him.

And he told me about a party

that was supposed
to be happening that night

and about going to see Milo.

Milo Flores.

He was a person that I hung out with.

I would go to his house
and we would go to parties together.

Venegas was 16 at that time.

Flores was 17, and I was 17.

Milo, basically, had his own apartment
behind his parents' house.

His father was wealthy,
at least in my eyes.

Milo had the means to get drugs
that I didn't,

so that was what joined us,

that was smoking marijuana
and doing cocaine.

[upbeat music playing]

Venegas had a tendency to...

do a lot and get very, very expressive.

He wasn't somebody
that I necessarily enjoyed having around.

It might have been close to midnight.

He was very excited,
he was uh, very uh, hyper,

and he wanted to go do something.

Right then and there, go outside

and stone a car, stone a house--
do something.

And that's what happened that night.

I can't say that there was a reason,
that there was a planning

or an intention, really,
behind going to this particular house.

Milo and I had been there before,
a couple of times.

And we had already used some keys
to get into the house

and take things out
which we exchanged for drugs.

I knew the person that lived there,
I knew he lived alone.

As a matter of fact,
I had been working for him in the past.

I met him when I was 15 years old.

He took an interest in me. It was, uh...

I think it can be considered
him seeing somebody that needed a...

a father, or him seeing somebody that...

that was disadvantaged and trying to help.

I had been given keys to his house.

On several occasions, I've...
I actually stayed with him at night. Uh...

Going to work the next morning,
he was, uh...

he was my ride, I guess.

And so, uh, we decided to go
to that house.

It was supposed to be
what we had done before.

Nobody home, go in and take something

and what Venegas was insistent on

was doing some damage,
tearing something up.

And so what we took with us
were a baseball bat,

an axe, and some knives.

Milo had dropped us off
about two blocks away

so that he could make a slow circuit,

give him enough time to drive around
and then come pick us up.

It was not supposed to take very long.

When we got to the house...

I had a bad feeling, I guess.

Venegas walks over to the house and...

when he came back, uh,
he tells me there's somebody in the house.

Uh... which was a surprise, a shock.

And...

My thoughts were to get away,

my thoughts were,
"I need to get... get out of here."

Everything had switched.

There was something that changed with him.

He was on a mission and...

It was not to go steal anything,
it was not to go trash anything.

To him, he was on a mission for Satan.

Satan wanted their souls.

The reason that I didn't leave...

I was scared of him at that point.

In memory, things seem to go slow
from that point on,

and I can't really explain
how the sequence happens

or how long between one... one memory
or one flash of memory to the other.

But I remember standing over a guy,

sleeping on the couch,

which was a few feet away
from the entrance.

I mean, I couldn't say how old he was,

I couldn't say I even knew
what he looked like.

[clock ticking]

[Martinez] Venegas had the axe.

And, um...

He hit him.

He hit him one time.

And uh, he had a knife,
and I had a knife, and...

And he started stabbing,
stabbing the guy on the, uh, on the couch.

I don't how long it took,
I don't know how long it... it really was.

It seems to have been
something very quick and uh...

The part that I remember
is Venegas looking up at me

with the knife
and telling me it was my turn.

And...

I had a folding knife and so I unfolded it

and looked at the body
that was laying there below me

and I stabbed him...

and uh... walked away.

Walked towards the back of the...

of the house
where there was a sliding door

that led into the back yard.

And I don't know how long I was out there.

It had to be enough time...
that when I came back in,

Venegas was standing there.

What I didn't know was that,
during that time that I was outside,

he had stabbed one other person...

who was, uh, in one of the rooms.

Uh...

What I remember is saying
that I wanted to leave and...

he told me to give him the axe.

And he walked back down the hallway
into the back room.

I didn't see what he did.

Uh...

When he came back, uh,
he told me there was...

there was a guy back there.

And that Satan wanted their soul.

We took one TV
that was in the living room...

and his car.

And we drove. We drove to Milo's house.

We drove down the street
where he was supposed to be waiting

but he wasn't there.

And so we went to his house and, uh...

He told me not to go in,
that he was going to go talk to Milo.

And he came back.
I don't know how long it was.

From there, I remember going with Venegas,
and going to other people's houses.

When I got home it was late afternoon.

And, uh, I never saw Venegas again.

I remember Milo telling me that, uh,
he wanted to talk to me that night.

He was worried about Venegas
saying something about him.

And...

That was the last time I spoke to Milo
before I got arrested.

[man] Sometimes,
not even when we think about it.

Thank You, Lord, for Your miracles,
in our lives

and in our hearts.

Lord, fill us with Your spirit today.
But Lord, as the sermon comes...

My name is Jay Dickey,
and this is First Baptist Church.

...and we will be attentive to everything
that Pastor Ben has to say.

Nobody would have thought, of all people,

that Jim Smiley would be someone
who would have been attacked like that.

We never actually take the time to share
the gospel with people, don't do that.

James had a-- or "Jim," as we called him,
had a really fabulous personality

and a great gift of sense of humor
and that kind of stuff.

Jim did some mission work in Nuevo Laredo

with uh, this orphanage that
he was helping some missionaries with.

He spent a lot of time
going back and forth

and using a lot
of his own resources to... to do that.

He just loved people
so he was always involved

in one way or another, uh,
helping out with families who had needs

but also with the youth group.

We had a fairly large youth group

and Jim got really involved in that
and in other parts of the church.

Nobody could believe
that something like that would happen

especially to James Smiley.

He'd give the shirt off his back to you
to help you out if you needed it.

We lost uh, three people

who had no reason to die whatsoever.

...and then as we take the offering...

Well, as a Christian, I have to believe
that anyone can be redeemed. But...

there was a suggestion that there had been
some kind of a satanic ritual first.

Forgive us...

[Dickey] It was an axe.

In Jesus name we pray, amen.

That's pretty extreme.

[radio dispatcher speaking]

The tip of the iceberg, the tip of this--
of the pyramid on any police job

is homicide,

because you get to investigate
the killing of another human being.

[radio dispatcher speaking]

I'm going to make a right turn over here

and then we're going to start
going towards the house.

[Torres] I'm trying to remember that day.

I was, you know, I was the only detective
working at the time. It was nighttime.

and my beeper started going,
so I called the police station

and they tell me,

"Look, there are officers
that had showed up to this house."

They found dead bodies out there

so he's requesting
a homicide detective out there.

This is it.

So I just drove up to the scene here

and of course, there were several
police cars with the lights on

already here and then,
the first officer at the scene,

he gave me a briefing
what he saw inside the house,

after that, I decide to walk
inside the house.

[police siren whoops]

What caught my attention
was the level of violence

that was used to kill
these three people out there.

Their bodies, their heads were smashed.
They were hit, they were slashed,

and in a way that the level of violence
was incredible.

And apparently,
everybody was asleep at the time.

The youngest victim, 14 years old,

most likely put up a fight, and...

There were signs in the room that
he actually struggled for his own life.

The other two victims,
they were killed as they slept.

Another concerning thing that, uh...

In the master bedroom
where the owner of the house was killed,

there was a crucifix
that was actually turned upside down.

Had the person responsible
done that, as a sign?

As you know, devil worshipping,
or was it just as a prank? We had no idea.

By seeing that there
was not a forced-entry type of issue...

It was, uh, you know...

the person responsible
entered the house with a key.

You know, most of the homicides
are committed by people

who are known to the victim.

And one of the defendants,
Miguel Martinez,

turned out to be an ex-employee
of Mr. Smiley,

who was the owner of the house.

The other one was Venegas, Miguel Venegas.

They were the two people responsible,
directly responsible for the killings.

And of course,
they had a third friend out there,

who facilitated and loaned them
what we call now the" murder weapons."

And it became
a huge issue here, that uh...

that was the son
of a local district judge.

My name is Manuel Flores,
and I'm a native Laradoan.

I've been a practicing attorney
since 1975,

Twenty years as a district judge,
four years as a county court at law judge.

I never thought that the kinds of cases
that I would hear that someday,

those issues would visit me personally.

It was a morning
and I was getting ready to go to work,

and two police officers
knocked on my door.

And, uh, as I recall, they told me,

"You know, this axe murder
that's been in the news,

we understand the axe is here
at your home."

And of course I, I was shocked.

And uh... so I enquired of my son, and...

"Son, did somebody borrow the axe?"
And he said, "Yes."

And, "Where is it?" and he said,
"It's here by the woodpile."

So, "Well, go get it. "

I got it and I gave it to them,
no questions asked.

Come on, Crystal, good girl.

Then, I think it was, uh,
Investigator Torres,

asked me if he could interview my son.

I had this great fear
that maybe he had been involved,

that maybe he had done something.

But... he explained that, uh,

he may have been together
with Martinez there at the house

and then Venegas showed up
or Venegas and Martinez showed up.

I don't remember exactly how it happened
but in any event, he explained that...

they were talking
about going to trash a house,

to do something bad to someone
who appeared to be good

but was really bad.

And, uh, they asked him,

"Why did they take your knife

and why did they take the axe that
was outside there in the uh, carport?"

And he said, "Well, they wanted a gun
but I told them no.

And since all they were going to do
is trash the house,

I thought nothing of it."

And what I wanted to do
was get rid of them

because they were acting, uh,
real strange."

You know, my son had access to our guns,

and later on,
I found out that he lied to him

to make up the story
to not give him a gun.

[Flores] He's a gentle, gentle person
who would never hurt anybody.

Investigator Torres said,
"Look, we know exactly what happened.

The two boys that committed those murders

have both confessed
and explained how it happened.

And based on the circumstances,

your son could not have known
what was going to happen."

The facts are he left,

and they themselves said
they had not formulated the idea

to kill anybody.

It was an idea that Venegas had
after they entered

and found out there were people
sleeping in there

and when they started to leave,
that Venegas said something to the effect,

"Let's go back and take their souls."

But that was just the beginning
of the story

because my son testified
that they had been at my house,

and my son had given them a ride
into that neighborhood

where they committed the offense.

When that got in the paper,
that gave rise to a lot of problems.

And, uh, people were talking,

and the assumption was that
I had used some kind of influence, uh,

to save my son from being prosecuted.

And nothing could be further
from the truth.

I would have preferred for him
to be accused and face a jury of his peers

and that he would have been
declared innocent.

Because there were no facts
that showed any guilt.

That's why I don't want him
to get involved.

I don't want all the crazies out there
to put him through the anguish

and the agony that he had since 1991.

And I just want him to live a normal life
and be done with this.

And I wish it would go away.

[birds chirping]

[man] You get the first call.

You get there and you secure the evidence,
secure the area,

and you start investigating from zero.

These are the weapons that were used.

[clicks]

Hello. The axe is here.

This is-- this is what I call hands-on.

When you crack somebody's skull with that
and the blood's squirting everywhere,

crunching of the bone,
these are hands-on weapons.

It takes a lot, you know. You have to be
really into what you're doing.

Yeah, it's not like, "I did it
and I didn't know what I was doing."

It's something that you do
and then you go to the next room

and you do it again,

and then you go
to the next room and do it again.

You know,
it's actually like a continuing...

thing in your mind to do this evil thing.

One of the perpetrators said

that the devil told him to go back
and take their souls.

And you say, well,
how could the devil be involved? Well...

I think this case
could have been induced by drugs

because apparently
they were using some drugs

and you can get an induced high

that would create hallucinations
and might create the voice.

In this case, I don't know.

I think you need to ask the one
that did it.

If you believe in God,
and God believes in the devil,

you know that that the devil is out there.

[Venegas]
Now what I'm about to tell you...

I stopped myself from telling anybody.

Because of parole,
and what are they gonna think about me.

The warp in my mind happened
when I was eight years old,

seven or eight years old.

At eight years old I became...

um, convinced
that I was the son of a devil.

In Juarez, there used to be
a bunch of black widows.

You know, those, uh... spiders,

and I would tell myself,
"If I'm the son of a devil,

none of these spiders is gonna bite me."

And I would fill up a jar of black widows
and go catch them

and uh, take off my shirt,

be on the ground and I tell my friends,
"I'm the son of the devil."

And I'd just take off the--
put those black widows on my chest.

None of them ever bit me. [chuckles]

So I'm thinking,

I'm convincing myself that I'm the son
of a devil because of this.

That was a little phase
that I went through...

and then as it came, it went.

I met Martinez in my sophomore year
in pre-algebra class.

[sniffs]

I didn't know Manuel Flores,
I didn't know his dad was a judge.

It came out that one night...

we were, you know, snorting some lines.

and Manuel Flores, he kind of like hinted,

"Hey, man,
I'm always pulling out the coke."

Which was true.

He was the one that had money.
We didn't have no money.

I don't like for anybody
to say that to me.

I don't like mooching, you know?
I don't like taking stuff from somebody.

So I said, "Hey, well...

what can we do you, you know?
I mean, we ain't got no money."

And it so happened
that Martinez had a key to this house

and, uh, they came up
with the idea to go steal.

Because supposedly,
this guy had a stash of money.

Because Martinez knew him.

[sniffs]

I'm like, "Sounds all right, sounds good.
Sounds like a plan."

I'm like, "Well, how are we going to scare
this dude into giving us money?"

Manuel Flores said,
"You know, well, I got a gun."

I'm like, "Okay, so..."
You know, I'm wired up!

I'm... "Let's go do it!"
Because I want some more cocaine.

[sniffs]

And Manuel's like, "Well, hold on."
And he takes off and comes back

and says, "Nah, well, my dad put the gun
in the locker and locked it."

And I say, "Well, lend me your...
your knives."

He was always sharpening
some knives that he had.

Okay.

I said, "Take me to your shed," right?

So, we go to this shed.

And I'm looking, and there's an axe.

And there's a... there's a bat.

I said, "Well, yeah, we'll take that,
and we'll take a bat."

And I said, "Well...

why don't...
why don't we just kill the dude, then?"

"Ah, tsk. You won't do that."

I come from a... machista culture.

A dare is a dare.

[crickets chirping]

[tires squealing]

I had been doing some hallucinogens
during the day.

And, uh...
well, add the cocaine to that.

But I still...

I still kind of knew
what I was doing, you know?

He gives us a ride and he takes off.

So we go to this place...

and we looked through the windows
and I see that there's...

there's three dudes in here.

And now, everything's changed.

"Oh, man, we should go."

And I'm like, "We can't go anywhere."

And it seeps in my mind,
I have to kill these three people.

And then I remember,
when I was younger, with the spiders.

I saw it as a sign.

And I say, "More souls to the devil."

So we go to the guy.
He's on the couch and he's asleep.

And I got the axe.

And I'm just like...

thinking about it and I'm like--
but I'm high, too.

And at the same time,
I want to pump myself up to do it.

And the guy wakes up.

He wakes up and he looks at me.

And he goes back to sleep.

And I'm thinking to myself,
"Oh, the devil's got my back."

That's what I became convinced of.

I strike him with the axe.

And then...

I don't know whether I left the axe
on his head,

or I took it off and put it to the side
and I started stabbing him in the chest.

Martinez said that, uh,
he only stabbed the guy one time.

I don't know if he did or not.

I don't know if it was one time,
two times, three--

I was focused on something else.

I was thinking,
"I need to get out of here.

I need to kill these people
and get out of here."

That's what I was thinking.

Before long, I see that Martinez
is not there anymore.

And later on I came to find out
that he went outside to puke.

He comes back in and he's like,
"Man, I don't want to do this."

I said...

"Hey, don't step out of this house
again until we do this

or the devil's gonna kill us."

That's what was in my head.

That's what I believed.
That's what I thought.

I said, so...

I said, "Look.

Just go to the side, man.
I'll take care of the rest."

I went to the kid's--
I didn't know he was a kid,

until I got in there--
started stabbing him in the stomach.

And, uh, I heard his voice,

"Hey, man," he told me,
"Hey, man, hey, man." and I'm like...

And then I've seen him and he's a kid.

I go next door
to where Smiley was sleeping.

I did this-- I got the axe,
chopped him in the head and...

Uh...

And that was it.

We didn't find no money.
We took a TV, a VCR,

little rings, or whatever the hell.

I turned some crucifixes upside-down.

Uh...

And we took the car.

And I was happy.
Because I was not gonna die.

That was...

the main reason why I did that.

Whether it makes sense to anybody,

it made sense to me.

I took three lives. I did that.

I can't lie.

I can't say that I did not do something
so heinous.

And the 41 years that were given to me
is just like a little slap in the hand.

I said, "Even if I do the whole time,

which probably is gonna happen,

even if I do the whole time,
it won't pay for one life, man."

I can't say that there was a reason
or that there was a planning

or an intention really behind
going to this particular house.

I knew the person that lived there,
I knew he lived alone.

Uh, as a matter of fact,
I had been working for him.

It was supposed to be
what we had done before.

Nobody home, go in, and take something

and what Venegas was insistent upon

was doing some damage,
tearing something up.

I don't remember...
uh, I don't remember it like that.

He seems to have selective memory.
I mean, we all do.

I'm not trying to transfer him
'cause we're in it together.

He came up with the idea
to go to that house.

He knew what we were gonna do.

We share the blame.

Whether he accepts the fact,

or whether he,
"I thought he was kidding or..."

No! You participated.

And, uh, he doesn't mention anything,

or he doesn't go into detail
as to his relationship to, uh, Mr. Smiley.

He doesn't even want to say his name.

Now, when we're in the house,
and I asked him, "Well, who's this guy?"

"Ah, man. He's just some faggot!"

That's what he said. "He's a faggot."

Smiley was a pedophile.

At least that's what my lawyer told me,
the first lawyer that I had.

And I'm so young, I said,
"What the hell is a pedophile?"

He said, "Man, I have families
willing to testify in court

that, uh, Mr. Smiley
messed with their kids."

I don't know what kind of a story
Martinez told you all,

but, uh, he had lived with this man.

[car engine revving]

Uh, my name is Joe Rubio.

I was the district attorney
for 20 years here in Webb County.

I was the lead prosecutor,

prosecuting the capital murder case
against Miguel Angel Martinez.

There have been a lot of rumors
about, you know, James Smiley

and there was never any evidence
to substantiate that at all.

On the contrary,
everyone that we interviewed, uh...

thought that-- Not only thought,
but believed in Jim Smiley,

that he was an outstanding,
you know, citizen.

I don't know if some people
do it maliciously.

They just pass on,
they just want to gossip.

And you know,
they perpetuate those rumors.

For me to even have to comment and say

that he wasn't involved
in improper activities

still casts a shadow on him

and we have-- we never had
any evidence of that whatsoever.

Other than he was dedicated to his family,
his church, and on his work.

After Miguel Angel Martinez
received the death penalty...

Uh, he was one of the youngest
defendants on death row.

We had offered Martinez in return
for his plea of guilty,

uh, a life imprisonment.

He didn't want to take that plea,
so he forced us to trial.

And when we went to trial,
he got the death penalty.

We had gotten a lot of-- a lot of
communications from a lot of people.

Uh...

And so, we sat down, and I decided that,

although we had been successful

in achieving
a capital murder conviction,

I didn't think that it was fair
for him to get the death penalty,

and the co-defendant,

who we felt was more culpable,
who was more of the instigator,

could not, under the law,
get the death penalty.

So, we agreed to commute his sentence.

[Venegas on recording]
They came up with the idea to go steal.

And I said, "Well, why don't...
why don't we just kill the dude, then?"

"Ah, tsk. You won't do that."

I come from a... machista culture.

A dare is a dare.

[Rubio] Well, I don't want to speculate,
you know, as to,

you know, whether it happened or not.

I guess you'd have to,
it's a fact situation as to what the,

you know, what type of credibility
that person had.

You know? I mean,
how long have you known him?

How long have you been around him?

The evidence shows
that there was drug use during that day.

A lot of drug use,
a lot of drinking alcohol.

And, uh, you know, a lot of times
people say things,

and they don't really mean it,
they're you know, just you know, boasting.

I believe that they actually formed
their intent once they got there...

when Venegas says
"The devil wants their souls."

That's when they turned around
to go back into the home

and committed the homicides.

Our position was,
that's where they formed the intent.

Uh, the Flores kid did not
go over there with them.

He was never there.

The case was presented to a grand jury.

They took a look at all the evidence,

and they decided that they felt
that there was evidence

to indict Venegas and Martinez,
but not Milo Flores.

Later on, it was looked at
by the Texas Rangers.

Uh, the FBI took a look at it as well,

and no other charges.

Nobody else came up
with a different conclusion.

[Martinez] I don't think I ever said

that Milo was specifically...

responsible for anything.

And that's not to say that he wasn't,

and that there isn't something.

[Martinez] I have a life sentence.

Milo has no sentence.

My perspective is, and has been,

trying to equate...

what he is responsible for,

with what I am responsible for.

Trying to bring into alignment,

how he was treated, and how I was treated.

Trying to find some...

some equality.

Um...

He seems to have selective memory.
I mean, we all do.

I had been doing some hallucinogens
during the day

but I still... I still kind of knew
what I was doing, you know.

[Venegas on recording]
I took three lives.

I did that. I can't lie.

I can't say that I did not do
something so heinous.

And the 41 years that were given to me
is just like a little slap on the hand.

It's a little amazing to me.
It's just, uh...

I mean, I want to say I'm taken aback by,

just the fact that you were able
to speak with him.

[Martinez]
You say Venegas has found peace

where he can confess and admit...

now, after he has a 41-year sentence,

to everything that he would not admit

or speak of before then.

A 41-year sentence.
I can say a lot of things.

I-- I don't have that.
I have a life sentence.

I think, no matter what I say,

no matter how I deal with it,
that's a reality.

And so you ask me certain questions,

they don't obviate that reality.

You know, so it's...
It's not possible to really...

answer some of your questions,
you know, as a catharsis for me

because there's a reality

that once I step away from here
that I still have to face.

[Venegas on recording]
They came up with the idea to go steal.

'Cause supposedly,
this guy had a stash of money.

Because Martinez knew him.

No, that's a lie.

So he's either completely ignorant,

or he's just straight lying to you.

And I said, "Well, why don't...
why don't we just kill the dude, then?"

"Ah, tsk. You won't do that."

I come from a... machista culture.

A dare is a dare.

I don't even know where to start.
I mean, I don't even know how to...

I don't have all the answers.

I don't know what they said.
I was really outside the bubble.

And that's why so much of it,

it doesn't really make sense to me,
and it's difficult trying to...

to reach back and...

give a motive and a reason
to something that...

only Venegas and only Milo can.

I mean, what you have,
from your own investigation,

from your own conversations,
25, 27 years after,

it might approach the truth but it's still
not going to be the full truth.

Because some people
are still not going to admit...

to what is painful for them to admit.

And that's the reality, that's life.

They were talking
about going to trash a house

to do something bad to someone

who appeared to be good
but was really bad.

What does it mean? [sighs]

[sighs]

I think it's very clear what it means.

I think the question is,
"What is the bad?"

[Martinez]
There are still some things that...

that I personally
haven't completely dealt with.

I've dealt with them to--

to be able to move on, to...

To not have them be a...

an anchor around my neck.

But it's just, uh...

It's like, it's just a longer chain,
you know, and the anchor is still there.

For so many years, it seems like, uh...

the way for me to deal with this
has been...

to, uh, take myself
and put myself to the side

and think about the... [sniffles]

[Martinez]
...the other people involved and...

And in a way, just...

accept that whatever happens
to me is, uh...

is just a small thing.

And I can handle that,
and I'll deal with it.