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[projector clicking]
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[7]
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[7]
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[man] I had a bad
feeling about it.
5
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My wife did. She didn't even
know what we was gonna do.
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She begged me not to
leave the house that day.
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Got in front of me at the
door, pullin' on me, crying.
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I said, "I'll be right back."
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That was my last warning.
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[traffic noise]
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[man 2] Wintertime. January.
12
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{\an8}A very cold Friday night.
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{\an8}Two guys walk
over to the counter,
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ask me to pick up something
from the bottom shelf,
15
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I don't remember what it was.
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I picked it up and
when I stood up,
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{\an8}the guy had a...
18
00:01:37,472 --> 00:01:39,975
{\an8}.25 automatic pointed at me.
19
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{\an8}Right on the gun
counter there was
20
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a picture of my daughter
receiving her communion.
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I says, "Take it easy,
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I want to get home to
see my family tonight."
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The little guy had a handgun.
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I'm lookin' at the gun
and I'm sayin' to myself
25
00:01:59,494 --> 00:02:03,332
that I thought it
was a pellet gun.
26
00:02:04,583 --> 00:02:06,585
Then he pulls the
trigger and, bang, into--
27
00:02:07,836 --> 00:02:09,212
and into the shelf.
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I swore to myself
at that point there
29
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that if I get a chance to
kill ya, I'm gonna kill ya.
30
00:02:17,054 --> 00:02:19,056
-[indistinct chatter]
-[sirens wailing]
31
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[man on bullhorn] Come
out with your hands up!
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[sirens wailing]
33
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[gunshots]
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[man on radio] Okay, hold it!
35
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[man] Get outta here quick!
36
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{\an8}[gunshot]
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{\an8}[7]
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[reporter] A story of violence
39
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inside a sporting
goods store in Brooklyn.
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Four terrorists had been
surprised inside the store
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00:02:56,301 --> 00:02:57,761
on Friday afternoon
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00:02:57,803 --> 00:03:01,973
when police arrived in
response to a robbery alarm.
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[man] It was a store
with outdoors equipment
44
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the usual camping stuff,
45
00:03:06,103 --> 00:03:07,896
and then the guns.
46
00:03:07,938 --> 00:03:10,357
The guns are what
it was really all about.
47
00:03:10,399 --> 00:03:12,109
{\an8}They were people
who wanted them,
48
00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:14,152
{\an8}and they took innocent
people inside the store
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00:03:14,194 --> 00:03:15,570
and made hostages of them.
50
00:03:17,864 --> 00:03:20,075
{\an8}[7]
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{\an8}[man] Holy crap.
52
00:03:21,451 --> 00:03:23,662
{\an8}Twelve hostages inside
a sporting goods store
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{\an8}loaded with firearms.
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This was the Titanic.
55
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The moon landing.
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00:03:31,128 --> 00:03:33,255
{\an8}I'm never gonna
forget the siege.
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00:03:34,256 --> 00:03:37,759
{\an8}It's permanently etched
in your-- in your heart
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{\an8}and in your soul.
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00:03:41,847 --> 00:03:43,932
The lessons learned of this case
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00:03:43,974 --> 00:03:46,435
were so revolutionary
for law enforcement.
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00:03:47,686 --> 00:03:50,689
Out of this tragedy, amazingly,
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00:03:51,189 --> 00:03:54,234
this is the birthplace
of hostage negotiation.
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00:03:57,112 --> 00:03:58,405
{\an8}[man] It's scary.
64
00:03:58,447 --> 00:04:01,324
{\an8}So cops usually
wind up overreacting.
65
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:04,578
{\an8}Police want to be macho.
66
00:04:05,245 --> 00:04:07,998
Lob in the gas and
storm the place.
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00:04:08,039 --> 00:04:10,125
"Kill 'em all!
They're all evil."
68
00:04:12,294 --> 00:04:15,005
{\an8}No. I believe in talking.
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00:04:15,046 --> 00:04:17,382
{\an8}Everything is
resolvable by talking.
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00:04:29,019 --> 00:04:31,855
[Jerry Riccio] The leader,
he wanted five shotguns.
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00:04:32,814 --> 00:04:34,191
They gave me a duffel bag.
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00:04:34,566 --> 00:04:36,902
12-guage ammo in
the bag, I'm filling it up,
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00:04:36,943 --> 00:04:38,403
filling it up and filling up.
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00:04:39,404 --> 00:04:40,989
And I turned around,
I said to him, I says,
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00:04:41,031 --> 00:04:43,867
"Can I ask you a question now?
Who's gonna carry this bag?"
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00:04:46,036 --> 00:04:47,120
Couldn't even drag it.
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00:04:47,162 --> 00:04:48,538
He says, "You
just keep filling it."
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00:04:49,748 --> 00:04:53,168
I filled it up, the guy
grabbed it by the handle.
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Can't move it.
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00:04:54,377 --> 00:04:55,670
You're not too smart.
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00:04:56,505 --> 00:04:59,508
[7]
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00:05:00,634 --> 00:05:02,844
The only thing that stopped
them from gettin' out is
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00:05:02,886 --> 00:05:05,055
someone outside called the cops.
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00:05:07,808 --> 00:05:10,185
There was a cop
lookin' in the doorway.
85
00:05:10,936 --> 00:05:12,604
When he seen the rifles,
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00:05:12,646 --> 00:05:14,898
the guys eyeballs,
I'll never forget it.
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00:05:16,441 --> 00:05:17,818
[man] "Call for backup.
88
00:05:17,859 --> 00:05:19,486
"Patrol units responding.
89
00:05:20,403 --> 00:05:21,947
"Call on walkie-talkie.
90
00:05:21,988 --> 00:05:23,240
N-[bleep] with a gun.โ
91
00:05:23,740 --> 00:05:27,035
{\an8}This had to be
terrifying for her
92
00:05:27,577 --> 00:05:29,621
{\an8}to have to go through
something like that.
93
00:05:31,957 --> 00:05:34,668
For my mother to
hear the cop say that.
94
00:05:36,002 --> 00:05:38,004
{\an8}To fear the cops.
95
00:05:38,922 --> 00:05:40,507
{\an8}She probably didn't even know
96
00:05:40,549 --> 00:05:42,008
guns was in that building.
97
00:05:42,050 --> 00:05:43,552
She wouldn't have gone in there.
98
00:05:44,761 --> 00:05:46,304
My dad needed a wallet.
99
00:05:47,097 --> 00:05:49,099
John & Al is right when
you come off the train.
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00:05:51,393 --> 00:05:53,019
My mother paid for it.
101
00:05:53,770 --> 00:05:55,105
Few more seconds,
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00:05:55,146 --> 00:05:58,650
my mother would have
walked out that door.
103
00:06:01,361 --> 00:06:04,781
The gunmen locked the
door right in front of her face.
104
00:06:05,615 --> 00:06:07,075
That's what it was.
105
00:06:08,618 --> 00:06:09,953
A wallet.
106
00:06:12,455 --> 00:06:14,875
{\an8}So we had white police
officers, mostly, uh,
107
00:06:14,916 --> 00:06:16,209
{\an8}on the inner perimeter.
108
00:06:16,543 --> 00:06:19,504
So that might have been
some considerations as well.
109
00:06:20,755 --> 00:06:23,842
We thought we had four members
of the Black Liberation Army
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00:06:23,884 --> 00:06:24,968
inside the store.
111
00:06:25,886 --> 00:06:27,554
It was a very radical group,
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00:06:27,596 --> 00:06:29,014
very violent and
dangerous group.
113
00:06:29,347 --> 00:06:31,975
Many police officer
assassinations under their belt.
114
00:06:33,310 --> 00:06:34,936
{\an8}Emotions are running high.
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00:06:36,313 --> 00:06:38,773
{\an8}[man] The BLA was
ambushing the police officers.
116
00:06:39,274 --> 00:06:41,484
You had a blue uniform
on, you were a target.
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00:06:43,111 --> 00:06:44,362
I was a rookie.
118
00:06:45,155 --> 00:06:46,948
{\an8}I remember like
it was yesterday.
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00:06:48,700 --> 00:06:51,119
{\an8}You're dealing with
lowlifes that don't care.
120
00:06:52,954 --> 00:06:54,247
They hate the police.
121
00:06:55,540 --> 00:06:57,500
No.
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00:06:58,543 --> 00:06:59,836
{\an8}They didn't know who we were.
123
00:07:01,463 --> 00:07:03,173
{\an8}I don't dislike police.
124
00:07:03,465 --> 00:07:05,550
{\an8}They thought all this
crazy stuff about us.
125
00:07:05,592 --> 00:07:07,886
{\an8}They thought we were
black revolutionaries.
126
00:07:08,219 --> 00:07:09,304
We were not.
127
00:07:09,888 --> 00:07:12,891
I worked for the Transit,
selling tokens in the booth.
128
00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:18,146
Dawud is a college
student, outstanding artist.
129
00:07:19,356 --> 00:07:22,108
Salih is a TV and
radio repairman.
130
00:07:23,568 --> 00:07:25,362
Mussidiq is a carpenter.
131
00:07:25,904 --> 00:07:28,198
We're not unemployed,
dope fiends,
132
00:07:28,239 --> 00:07:29,866
and thieves and crooks.
133
00:07:32,202 --> 00:07:33,620
{\an8}We're squares.
134
00:07:37,374 --> 00:07:39,459
{\an8}I was terrified.
135
00:07:41,211 --> 00:07:43,755
I was like an
understudy to Shu'aib.
136
00:07:43,797 --> 00:07:46,591
You know, he was like
my mentor at the time.
137
00:07:46,633 --> 00:07:47,884
You know.
138
00:07:47,926 --> 00:07:50,720
He was living on
his own, you know, I--
139
00:07:50,762 --> 00:07:54,474
{\an8}With his wife, you know,
I was still with my mother,
140
00:07:54,516 --> 00:07:58,228
{\an8}using his situation as
an example to follow.
141
00:08:01,481 --> 00:08:04,317
{\an8}On the way there, I was
hoping somebody would,
142
00:08:04,818 --> 00:08:06,695
like, just say, okay, like...
143
00:08:07,153 --> 00:08:10,407
maybe we should, like, just
scrap this and like, but, uh--
144
00:08:11,741 --> 00:08:13,868
I didn't-- I couldn't come
up with any, you know,
145
00:08:13,910 --> 00:08:15,829
alternative solution,
146
00:08:15,870 --> 00:08:18,915
so I just, more or less,
went along with it, you know?
147
00:08:19,958 --> 00:08:22,961
[7]
148
00:08:24,546 --> 00:08:25,922
A lot of regrets.
149
00:08:30,343 --> 00:08:33,930
I observed one police
officer in front of the store.
150
00:08:34,931 --> 00:08:37,017
You don't need to take
it any further, you know,
151
00:08:37,058 --> 00:08:38,852
they're-- they're
here, you know,
152
00:08:39,728 --> 00:08:41,354
we-- we're through.
153
00:08:41,396 --> 00:08:43,940
You know, we should have
surrendered at that time,
154
00:08:43,982 --> 00:08:46,026
but, uh...
155
00:08:46,067 --> 00:08:49,279
my co-defendants tried to
make an exit from the store.
156
00:08:50,739 --> 00:08:52,574
That's when things went haywire.
157
00:08:55,618 --> 00:08:57,412
[Shu'aib Raheem] We
made that fateful decision.
158
00:08:57,787 --> 00:09:00,999
To get these guns.
To protect our families.
159
00:09:01,833 --> 00:09:03,585
In retrospect, it
was a fool's idea
160
00:09:03,626 --> 00:09:05,712
to think we can get
out the back door.
161
00:09:05,754 --> 00:09:07,547
[door opening]
162
00:09:07,589 --> 00:09:09,049
We opened the door.
163
00:09:09,090 --> 00:09:10,967
[indistinct shouting]
164
00:09:11,009 --> 00:09:13,053
There were cops everywhere.
165
00:09:14,095 --> 00:09:15,972
[indistinct shouting]
166
00:09:16,514 --> 00:09:18,391
{\an8}Super hyper. Payin'
attention to everybody.
167
00:09:18,433 --> 00:09:19,476
{\an8}Lookin' there, lookin' there.
168
00:09:20,268 --> 00:09:21,603
Who's the good guy?
Who's the bad guy?
169
00:09:21,644 --> 00:09:22,854
Who do you trust?
170
00:09:22,896 --> 00:09:24,481
{\an8}How you gonna say,
"Drop the weapon,โ
171
00:09:24,522 --> 00:09:26,149
{\an8}but when you go to
drop it, they tell you,
172
00:09:26,191 --> 00:09:28,068
"Don't move. Freeze.
Drop the weapon.
173
00:09:28,109 --> 00:09:30,278
Don't move. Freeze.
Hand me the gun.โ
174
00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,572
You know, I mean--
What do you do?
175
00:09:33,239 --> 00:09:36,284
I'm ready to surrender.
You won't let me surrender.
176
00:09:36,910 --> 00:09:39,537
That was how we
perceived the situation.
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00:09:42,749 --> 00:09:44,375
I'm trying to comply,
178
00:09:45,085 --> 00:09:48,421
passing off my
rifle to this detective.
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00:09:49,214 --> 00:09:51,758
The other officers
interpreted it as a threat
180
00:09:52,801 --> 00:09:54,511
because they told
me not to move.
181
00:09:57,138 --> 00:10:00,100
{\an8}That's what led to
them firing the first shot.
182
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,228
{\an8}Does it matter who fired first?
183
00:10:03,269 --> 00:10:04,395
{\an8}There are some people
184
00:10:04,437 --> 00:10:05,897
{\an8}that need a damn beating.
185
00:10:05,939 --> 00:10:08,066
You know why?
You can't talk to โem.
186
00:10:08,108 --> 00:10:09,484
You talk til you're
blue in the face.
187
00:10:09,526 --> 00:10:11,820
They want a
physical confrontation.
188
00:10:12,904 --> 00:10:14,364
That's what they want.
189
00:10:14,405 --> 00:10:15,657
{\an8}And that's their mentality.
190
00:10:16,199 --> 00:10:18,368
{\an8}And a guy like that
needs his ass kicked.
191
00:10:22,580 --> 00:10:27,418
New York City's always
had a hard, ugly relationship
192
00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:29,504
between the police
and the people--
193
00:10:29,546 --> 00:10:30,755
community of color.
194
00:10:31,548 --> 00:10:34,759
{\an8}All my life, police was
killing black people.
195
00:10:37,345 --> 00:10:39,222
{\an8}I know-- I know for a fact...
196
00:10:39,973 --> 00:10:41,683
that cops aren't racist.
197
00:10:43,768 --> 00:10:46,604
Yet, there was this perception
198
00:10:47,272 --> 00:10:49,816
that cops are gonna
brutalize Blacks.
199
00:10:51,901 --> 00:10:53,778
The police were
seen as oppressors.
200
00:10:55,238 --> 00:10:56,281
{\an8}Corrupt.
201
00:10:56,781 --> 00:10:57,824
{\an8}Brutal.
202
00:10:58,867 --> 00:11:00,910
{\an8}[Jack Cambria] The police
officer's stress is elevated
203
00:11:00,952 --> 00:11:02,245
{\an8}โcause you're always on.
204
00:11:02,745 --> 00:11:05,039
{\an8}When emotional levels
are up in-- in a person,
205
00:11:05,081 --> 00:11:07,208
{\an8}then their rationality
level is down.
206
00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:09,377
{\an8}It's kinda like
that angle effect.
207
00:11:09,419 --> 00:11:11,254
{\an8}Emotion. Rationality.
208
00:11:12,922 --> 00:11:16,718
{\an8}Police officers become,
sometimes, judge, jury,
209
00:11:16,759 --> 00:11:19,345
{\an8}and, uh, sometimes when
the circumstances, uh,
210
00:11:19,387 --> 00:11:21,055
you know, present themselves,
211
00:11:21,097 --> 00:11:22,182
executioner.
212
00:11:24,058 --> 00:11:27,270
{\an8}There's this whiteness
on the police department,
213
00:11:27,896 --> 00:11:29,731
{\an8}not properly trained,
214
00:11:30,231 --> 00:11:31,900
{\an8}fearful of being
in neighborhoods
215
00:11:31,941 --> 00:11:33,985
that they're not
accustomed to being in.
216
00:11:34,027 --> 00:11:36,029
{\an8}And so, in that
sporting goods store,
217
00:11:36,779 --> 00:11:38,907
{\an8}when they see a black
man in a doorway...
218
00:11:41,534 --> 00:11:43,036
{\an8}emotions take over.
219
00:11:43,745 --> 00:11:45,955
[gunshots]
220
00:11:48,208 --> 00:11:50,627
[Jerry Riccio] The cops' bullets
are pockmarking against the building
221
00:11:50,668 --> 00:11:52,754
and I'm sayin', "Oh,
my God, oh, my God,"
222
00:11:52,795 --> 00:11:55,089
like I-- I gotta get hit.
223
00:11:58,301 --> 00:12:00,345
From where they were
shooting, it wasn't...
224
00:12:02,430 --> 00:12:03,723
less than 15 feet.
225
00:12:03,765 --> 00:12:05,225
[gunshots]
226
00:12:05,266 --> 00:12:07,393
When one guy starts
shootin', they all start shootin'.
227
00:12:08,519 --> 00:12:09,520
You're nuts.
228
00:12:10,939 --> 00:12:12,398
Firing away like crazy.
229
00:12:13,608 --> 00:12:15,485
{\an8}And the little guy
pulls me back,
230
00:12:16,027 --> 00:12:17,737
{\an8}he steps up and fires.
231
00:12:18,196 --> 00:12:20,698
{\an8}You could feel the
heat against my ribs.
232
00:12:20,740 --> 00:12:22,992
{\an8}-[gunshot]
-[traffic noise]
233
00:12:23,034 --> 00:12:24,994
{\an8}[tires squealing]
234
00:12:25,036 --> 00:12:27,038
[siren wailing]
235
00:12:31,209 --> 00:12:33,461
I reached out and
pulled the door in.
236
00:12:35,463 --> 00:12:37,257
It was a miracle I wasn't hit.
237
00:12:38,383 --> 00:12:40,635
Mussidiq was just
standing there in shock.
238
00:12:40,969 --> 00:12:42,595
I lifted his shirt up.
239
00:12:43,513 --> 00:12:45,265
My hand was covered with blood.
240
00:12:46,140 --> 00:12:49,102
Stomach wound,
there's nothin' you can do.
241
00:12:50,645 --> 00:12:52,730
If he didn't get attention,
he was gonna die.
242
00:12:55,024 --> 00:12:57,026
[gunshots]
243
00:12:57,819 --> 00:12:59,654
[indistinct shouting]
244
00:13:01,823 --> 00:13:03,950
[gunshots]
245
00:13:04,784 --> 00:13:08,204
Bullets was flyin'
all over the store.
246
00:13:08,246 --> 00:13:09,706
All over the store.
247
00:13:10,540 --> 00:13:13,584
The police knew there
were hostages in there
248
00:13:13,626 --> 00:13:15,586
and they-- and they, uh--
249
00:13:15,628 --> 00:13:19,257
they elevated their fire to
above the hostages' heads.
250
00:13:19,299 --> 00:13:20,425
No.
251
00:13:20,925 --> 00:13:22,969
They-- That's the first thing
252
00:13:23,011 --> 00:13:25,805
one of the officers
said afterwards.
253
00:13:25,847 --> 00:13:27,390
"Well, we were shooting high."
254
00:13:27,807 --> 00:13:29,600
I says, "You can tell
that to somebody else,
255
00:13:29,642 --> 00:13:30,768
you can't tell it to me."
256
00:13:31,936 --> 00:13:33,396
The cops know there's customers,
257
00:13:33,438 --> 00:13:35,189
and you're shooting
into the store.
258
00:13:35,732 --> 00:13:36,858
What are they, crazy?
259
00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:40,403
Here's my head. Here's
where the bullet was hitting.
260
00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:43,031
The police department
won't admit to
261
00:13:43,072 --> 00:13:44,615
a lot of things that they did.
262
00:13:45,575 --> 00:13:49,120
I was with Steve Gilroy.
He was my partner that night.
263
00:13:50,038 --> 00:13:51,414
He was a great guy to be with.
264
00:13:52,248 --> 00:13:53,666
He was behind the L pillar.
265
00:13:53,708 --> 00:13:55,710
[gunshots]
266
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,009
I looked over, I saw
Steve laying on the ground.
267
00:14:03,051 --> 00:14:04,927
[gunshots continue]
268
00:14:04,969 --> 00:14:07,430
He was hit in the back of his
head, which opened up his skull.
269
00:14:09,932 --> 00:14:12,018
I saw part of his brain
separate from his head.
270
00:14:17,857 --> 00:14:19,859
[crackling]
271
00:14:24,864 --> 00:14:26,866
[clock ticking]
272
00:14:33,748 --> 00:14:37,168
[Al Sheppard] You grieve for the
guy that gets killed or hurt, God forbid.
273
00:14:38,252 --> 00:14:40,505
And then you want to go
fuck somebody up over it.
274
00:14:40,546 --> 00:14:42,173
The bad guy.
275
00:14:42,215 --> 00:14:44,217
[indistinct chatter]
276
00:14:48,096 --> 00:14:50,306
Anybody in the ghetto
knows, if you shoot a cop,
277
00:14:50,598 --> 00:14:51,641
they're gonna get you.
278
00:14:51,974 --> 00:14:53,976
[police radio chatter]
279
00:14:58,731 --> 00:15:00,733
{\an8}[sirens wailing]
280
00:15:06,572 --> 00:15:08,241
{\an8}[Shu'aib Raheem]
Salih found the radio...
281
00:15:10,076 --> 00:15:11,327
{\an8}and turned it on.
282
00:15:12,912 --> 00:15:14,330
{\an8}We were all listening to it.
283
00:15:15,248 --> 00:15:18,251
{\an8}And they said, "We have four
members of the Black Liberation Army
284
00:15:18,292 --> 00:15:19,877
surrounded inside a store.โ
285
00:15:25,258 --> 00:15:27,844
Oh, S-H-I-T, that's what.
286
00:15:29,095 --> 00:15:30,430
Oh, crap!
287
00:15:32,140 --> 00:15:34,142
[indistinct radio transmission]
288
00:15:34,684 --> 00:15:36,144
I know how they were thinkin'.
289
00:15:37,228 --> 00:15:38,521
They wanted blood.
290
00:15:39,981 --> 00:15:41,441
I was petrified.
291
00:15:43,067 --> 00:15:46,612
But I was gonna experience
something much worse than that.
292
00:15:47,655 --> 00:15:49,240
[static]
293
00:15:49,282 --> 00:15:52,994
We heard it on the radio
that we had inside the store.
294
00:15:53,035 --> 00:15:55,663
[radio announcer] ABC
News, Brooklyn, New York.
295
00:15:55,705 --> 00:15:57,540
What happened
here was a tragedy.
296
00:15:57,582 --> 00:16:00,751
One gunman was wounded,
apparently seriously.
297
00:16:00,793 --> 00:16:02,503
One policeman was killed.
298
00:16:07,341 --> 00:16:09,802
It was a stunned
silence at first.
299
00:16:11,721 --> 00:16:14,098
Then it was...
300
00:16:14,140 --> 00:16:15,349
shock.
301
00:16:16,350 --> 00:16:18,102
Everything changed.
302
00:16:19,645 --> 00:16:21,772
We didn't even know
a cop was even killed.
303
00:16:22,190 --> 00:16:25,735
If you are responsible
for a chain of events
304
00:16:25,776 --> 00:16:29,238
that culminated in the loss
of life of a human being,
305
00:16:29,989 --> 00:16:32,325
there's no way
to replace that life.
306
00:16:33,618 --> 00:16:36,120
I'ma have to carry this sin.
307
00:16:36,662 --> 00:16:38,873
{\an8}Man, I cried like a
baby in the bathroom.
308
00:16:40,875 --> 00:16:42,210
{\an8}After he shot him,
309
00:16:42,251 --> 00:16:44,253
{\an8}I think he said,
"I killed that pig.
310
00:16:44,295 --> 00:16:46,130
"I-- I offed that pig.
311
00:16:47,006 --> 00:16:49,383
If he sticks his head out again,
I'm gonna-- I'm gonna kill him."
312
00:16:49,425 --> 00:16:51,469
And stuck his
head out, shot him.
313
00:16:51,511 --> 00:16:53,387
"I got that pig,
I killed that pig.
314
00:16:53,429 --> 00:16:54,514
Shot him in the head.โ
315
00:16:55,765 --> 00:16:57,099
[Shu'aib Raheem]
That was never said.
316
00:16:57,475 --> 00:16:59,894
I was talking about
a different officer
317
00:16:59,936 --> 00:17:01,020
who shot at me.
318
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:04,023
I said, "Man, there's this
guy across the street, man,
319
00:17:04,065 --> 00:17:06,275
hold up, man, you know, I-- Pew!
320
00:17:06,317 --> 00:17:07,693
And he took off and ran.
321
00:17:08,861 --> 00:17:10,112
[exhales]
322
00:17:10,988 --> 00:17:13,783
Well, that comment, "I gotta-- I'm
gonna get this guy behind the pole,"
323
00:17:14,367 --> 00:17:16,619
is what they tried to say
that the comment was made
324
00:17:16,661 --> 00:17:17,912
when Mr. Gilroy was killed.
325
00:17:18,996 --> 00:17:20,706
I still don't know
how he got hit.
326
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,458
We were hunkered down.
327
00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:25,002
The van blocked that
whole line of sight.
328
00:17:26,170 --> 00:17:29,674
I can only imagine
it was some type of
329
00:17:30,007 --> 00:17:33,261
ricochet or whatever.
Friendly fire.
330
00:17:35,304 --> 00:17:37,223
I didn't have the
right angle to see him.
331
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:41,894
I could on see the
bar called the Oasis.
332
00:17:43,229 --> 00:17:45,022
The cops were shooting
all over the place.
333
00:17:47,525 --> 00:17:49,610
[Shu'aib Raheem] He was
shot in the side of the head.
334
00:17:50,486 --> 00:17:51,904
Where'd that shot come from?
335
00:17:54,365 --> 00:17:56,033
I don't know...
336
00:17:56,075 --> 00:17:57,493
[sighs]
337
00:17:59,161 --> 00:18:00,413
...what happened.
338
00:18:01,455 --> 00:18:02,873
It don't really matter.
339
00:18:05,459 --> 00:18:06,961
At the end of the day...
340
00:18:08,796 --> 00:18:10,214
really, it doesn't matter.
341
00:18:11,299 --> 00:18:13,092
Because none of that
would have happened
342
00:18:13,926 --> 00:18:15,177
if we hadn't been there.
343
00:18:16,929 --> 00:18:19,932
{\an8}[7]
344
00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:24,395
{\an8}[Al Baker] It's
losing a brother.
345
00:18:28,816 --> 00:18:30,234
{\an8}It takes a piece of you.
346
00:18:32,695 --> 00:18:35,114
We're always criticized
for the thin blue line,
347
00:18:35,156 --> 00:18:36,866
or the "us and them,โ
348
00:18:36,907 --> 00:18:41,037
alienation that others
have towards cops.
349
00:18:43,289 --> 00:18:45,666
You really hate to
discriminate against people
350
00:18:45,708 --> 00:18:47,376
because their not cops,
351
00:18:47,418 --> 00:18:49,629
but you know in
your heart of hearts,
352
00:18:49,670 --> 00:18:51,088
{\an8}deep down where you live,
353
00:18:52,423 --> 00:18:53,591
{\an8}they don't get it.
354
00:18:53,966 --> 00:18:56,969
[7]
355
00:19:04,935 --> 00:19:06,646
You know he's dead now.
356
00:19:07,063 --> 00:19:09,023
{\an8}You think of yourself,
you think of your family,
357
00:19:09,065 --> 00:19:10,358
{\an8}you think of his family.
358
00:19:10,399 --> 00:19:11,984
Goes through so fast.
359
00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:13,402
But you know it's over.
360
00:19:14,403 --> 00:19:15,988
It's almost like the
end of the world to you.
361
00:19:17,573 --> 00:19:19,158
[Brian Tuohy] You could
have had breakfast with him,
362
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,493
and all of a sudden, he's gone.
363
00:19:21,619 --> 00:19:22,995
Why am I here today?
364
00:19:26,332 --> 00:19:29,043
It could have been me,
but I can't think like that.
365
00:19:31,629 --> 00:19:33,589
Nobody ever said,
"How-- How are you doin'?"
366
00:19:33,631 --> 00:19:34,799
or anything. No.
367
00:19:36,050 --> 00:19:39,053
Today, I would be in a
hospital for a week or so
368
00:19:39,095 --> 00:19:40,137
being talked to.
369
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,556
But yeah, nothing-- nobody
even spoke to me at all
370
00:19:42,598 --> 00:19:43,891
about what happened.
371
00:19:43,933 --> 00:19:46,936
[7]
372
00:19:48,521 --> 00:19:51,065
[Al Sheppard] The psychological
dangers are much worse than the physical.
373
00:19:52,149 --> 00:19:54,235
It will kill you. Eat you up.
374
00:19:55,569 --> 00:19:58,447
A lot of cops have
PTSD, alcoholism.
375
00:20:00,449 --> 00:20:03,744
{\an8}There's so many people I
knew that committed suicide.
376
00:20:08,416 --> 00:20:10,751
{\an8}[Gerald Lefcourt] The head
of the intelligence unit said
377
00:20:10,793 --> 00:20:13,129
there's as much as 10
percent of the police force
378
00:20:13,170 --> 00:20:14,755
that are emotionally unstable.
379
00:20:17,174 --> 00:20:18,634
Which was a shocking thing
380
00:20:18,676 --> 00:20:21,303
for a leader in the
police department to say.
381
00:20:23,472 --> 00:20:25,433
[Jack Cambria] There's a
stigma for many police officers
382
00:20:25,474 --> 00:20:28,018
to come forward because
of that strong macho image
383
00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:29,645
that we are expected to portray.
384
00:20:29,687 --> 00:20:31,439
It's a humiliation.
385
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,482
{\an8}So they would
rather just keep their--
386
00:20:33,524 --> 00:20:35,818
{\an8}their emotional issues internal,
387
00:20:35,860 --> 00:20:37,278
and we know what
happens with that.
388
00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:39,321
[indistinct chatter]
389
00:20:48,330 --> 00:20:50,332
{\an8}[man on bullhorn]
390
00:20:52,501 --> 00:20:54,879
{\an8}[Shu'aib Raheem] Police were
telling us everything was all right,
391
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,213
no one was hurt.
392
00:20:56,255 --> 00:20:57,465
Lying to us.
393
00:20:58,924 --> 00:21:00,634
{\an8}Trying to lull us to sleep.
394
00:21:01,761 --> 00:21:03,763
{\an8}They were gonna kill us
when we walked out the door.
395
00:21:06,515 --> 00:21:09,226
{\an8}Don't lie. Don't lie.
396
00:21:09,810 --> 00:21:11,604
Crazy people
aren't always stupid.
397
00:21:13,105 --> 00:21:14,607
He knows when
you're full of crap.
398
00:21:15,566 --> 00:21:17,485
Now the trust is gone.
399
00:21:17,902 --> 00:21:20,905
[7]
400
00:21:26,410 --> 00:21:28,621
[Jerry Riccio] By that time,
you had another 500 cops.
401
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:32,416
Angry? Yeah.
402
00:21:32,458 --> 00:21:33,584
If the cops were to burst in,
403
00:21:33,626 --> 00:21:35,002
who are they
gonna be shootin' at?
404
00:21:37,087 --> 00:21:38,380
They wouldn't know where we are.
405
00:21:41,592 --> 00:21:44,887
There was no cop negotiating
comin' up close to the store,
406
00:21:44,929 --> 00:21:47,431
"Look, we'll give you
this, we'll do this for you.โ
407
00:21:48,891 --> 00:21:50,851
We're all gonna die.
408
00:21:52,478 --> 00:21:53,813
We're gonna shoot it out.
409
00:21:58,275 --> 00:22:00,277
The hostages were
all sittin' in there.
410
00:22:00,986 --> 00:22:02,571
Every time the guy fired a shot,
411
00:22:02,988 --> 00:22:05,825
the black girl named Fonnie
would jump out of her skin.
412
00:22:07,076 --> 00:22:10,412
[stammering] The-- The bang,
the bang, the bang, the bang.
413
00:22:10,454 --> 00:22:13,082
And she would--
414
00:22:13,123 --> 00:22:15,251
Tears were goin'. Like
everybody was cryin'.
415
00:22:18,629 --> 00:22:20,673
{\an8}I was young, I was 16 years old.
416
00:22:22,007 --> 00:22:25,177
{\an8}I went into shock from
what I just witnessed.
417
00:22:27,555 --> 00:22:30,808
{\an8}Gunshots, the glass breaking.
418
00:22:32,017 --> 00:22:33,811
{\an8}Um...
419
00:22:33,853 --> 00:22:35,354
people, you know--
420
00:22:35,396 --> 00:22:37,106
Yeah, the sounds of gunshots,
421
00:22:37,147 --> 00:22:41,068
uh, people, um,
screaming in the store,
422
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:45,531
you know, we were-- we
were-- we were screaming and...
423
00:22:47,575 --> 00:22:50,160
the gunman who was injured
was holding his abdomen,
424
00:22:50,703 --> 00:22:51,954
moaning in pain.
425
00:22:52,955 --> 00:22:54,456
His clothes were soaked through.
426
00:22:55,708 --> 00:22:56,876
He was bleeding out.
427
00:23:00,087 --> 00:23:01,630
[Jerry Riccio] The leader
comes over to me and says,
428
00:23:01,672 --> 00:23:03,716
{\an8}"My man that's hit is in pain.
429
00:23:04,383 --> 00:23:05,467
{\an8}Give me a rag."
430
00:23:06,176 --> 00:23:07,928
[water running]
431
00:23:07,970 --> 00:23:09,680
They go in the
bathroom, I wet the rag,
432
00:23:10,055 --> 00:23:12,099
and I'm about to put
the rag on the wound,
433
00:23:12,850 --> 00:23:15,311
the little guy picks up the
gun and puts it to my head,
434
00:23:16,103 --> 00:23:17,563
stuck it underneath and...
435
00:23:18,188 --> 00:23:19,940
I went as high as I could.
436
00:23:22,192 --> 00:23:24,445
It doesn't take much for
those triggers to go off.
437
00:23:25,946 --> 00:23:26,989
Your head's gone.
438
00:23:27,907 --> 00:23:30,910
[7]
439
00:23:32,745 --> 00:23:34,371
I'm tryin' to help ya.
440
00:23:35,539 --> 00:23:37,166
And you're gonna
put a gun to my head?
441
00:23:38,292 --> 00:23:39,710
What kind of a person are you?
442
00:23:40,669 --> 00:23:42,212
He was very impulsive.
443
00:23:44,131 --> 00:23:45,674
Scary at times.
444
00:23:46,091 --> 00:23:47,134
Mussidiq.
445
00:23:48,928 --> 00:23:50,304
A loose canon.
446
00:23:51,013 --> 00:23:53,390
We was concerned
about him exploding.
447
00:23:57,227 --> 00:23:59,063
[Jack Cambria] When you
get to the scene as a negotiator,
448
00:23:59,104 --> 00:24:01,023
they're handing off the
bomb that's already--
449
00:24:01,065 --> 00:24:02,066
the fuse is already lit,
450
00:24:03,067 --> 00:24:05,194
so we have to kind
of try to defuse that.
451
00:24:10,157 --> 00:24:12,034
We have an ever
evolving approach
452
00:24:12,076 --> 00:24:13,452
because we learn from mistakes.
453
00:24:15,204 --> 00:24:17,414
Prior to 1973, we'd
give the hostage taker
454
00:24:17,456 --> 00:24:19,333
a set amount of
time to surrender,
455
00:24:19,667 --> 00:24:20,751
and if they did not,
456
00:24:22,127 --> 00:24:23,837
they would be met
with tactical force.
457
00:24:26,256 --> 00:24:27,383
Guns.
458
00:24:27,424 --> 00:24:30,219
[7]
459
00:24:30,260 --> 00:24:32,888
{\an8}The first hostage
negotiation team in the world
460
00:24:33,263 --> 00:24:35,516
{\an8}was formulated here in the NYPD
461
00:24:35,557 --> 00:24:37,476
{\an8}based on a series of events.
462
00:24:37,518 --> 00:24:40,562
{\an8}The first one was the Attica
Prison riots back in 1971.
463
00:24:43,357 --> 00:24:45,067
{\an8}[Gerald Lefcourt] Such
oppressive conditions.
464
00:24:45,526 --> 00:24:47,027
There's no question,
465
00:24:47,069 --> 00:24:50,155
there's terrible racism in
the criminal justice system.
466
00:24:51,448 --> 00:24:54,034
Rather than trying
to resolve the crisis
467
00:24:54,076 --> 00:24:55,869
or take down the tensions,
468
00:24:56,870 --> 00:25:00,916
it's about winning
and knockout punches.
469
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,544
It's about destroying
your enemy.
470
00:25:05,045 --> 00:25:06,171
That was Attica.
471
00:25:07,047 --> 00:25:08,465
{\an8}[man]
472
00:25:08,507 --> 00:25:10,634
{\an8}[men]
473
00:25:11,635 --> 00:25:14,054
{\an8}[7]
474
00:25:14,096 --> 00:25:16,724
{\an8}[Jack Cambria] The highest
authorities, all they do is tactics.
475
00:25:17,474 --> 00:25:19,435
And when every
problem is a nail,
476
00:25:19,476 --> 00:25:21,145
then every solution
has to be a hammer.
477
00:25:22,104 --> 00:25:23,230
We're not gonna negotiate.
478
00:25:23,272 --> 00:25:24,815
We're gonna go
through that door.
479
00:25:26,191 --> 00:25:28,193
[whirring]
480
00:25:28,736 --> 00:25:31,697
[7]
481
00:25:31,739 --> 00:25:33,741
[gunfire]
482
00:25:35,325 --> 00:25:37,327
-[indistinct shouting]
-[clamoring]
483
00:25:38,454 --> 00:25:39,580
[Jack Cambria] It
was a bloodbath.
484
00:25:39,621 --> 00:25:41,582
Forty-three
individuals were killed.
485
00:25:42,583 --> 00:25:44,710
Let's learn from
those past mistakes.
486
00:25:45,085 --> 00:25:46,503
Maybe we shouldn't
do that again.
487
00:25:46,545 --> 00:25:48,213
It didn't work the last time.
488
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:50,924
One year later, there was
489
00:25:50,966 --> 00:25:52,926
the Dog Day
Afternoon bank robbery.
490
00:25:52,968 --> 00:25:54,970
{\an8}[cheering]
491
00:25:55,512 --> 00:25:58,474
{\an8}Messy, unorganized.
Very dangerous.
492
00:25:59,224 --> 00:26:00,851
{\an8}It was negotiated from the cuff.
493
00:26:00,893 --> 00:26:03,270
{\an8}There was no theory
behind it. It was just, uh,
494
00:26:03,312 --> 00:26:05,773
{\an8}"Hey, come on out." "No."
495
00:26:05,814 --> 00:26:07,066
"Come on out."
496
00:26:08,901 --> 00:26:09,943
"No."
497
00:26:09,985 --> 00:26:11,195
[no audible dialog]
498
00:26:12,905 --> 00:26:15,240
Then, in September of 1972,
499
00:26:15,282 --> 00:26:17,326
{\an8}there was the Munich Olympics.
500
00:26:17,618 --> 00:26:20,204
{\an8}Palestinian guerrillas took
Israeli athletes hostage.
501
00:26:21,705 --> 00:26:23,957
Eleven Israeli athletes
and coaches were killed.
502
00:26:24,833 --> 00:26:26,043
Tragedy.
503
00:26:26,085 --> 00:26:27,377
We have to do something.
504
00:26:28,253 --> 00:26:30,506
This could very well happen
here in New York City.
505
00:26:30,547 --> 00:26:32,174
[birds chirping]
506
00:26:32,216 --> 00:26:35,803
[woman] Hostage negotiation
was a world problem
507
00:26:35,844 --> 00:26:38,388
{\an8}that had come
under the microscope
508
00:26:38,430 --> 00:26:39,848
{\an8}for the NYPD.
509
00:26:40,307 --> 00:26:42,351
{\an8}And they were
saying, "Here, go fix it."
510
00:26:43,936 --> 00:26:45,729
[Al Baker] Harvey
didn't look like a cop,
511
00:26:45,771 --> 00:26:47,147
he didn't act like a cop.
512
00:26:47,731 --> 00:26:51,610
The least ever macho
dude, the least violent.
513
00:26:51,985 --> 00:26:53,779
He was seen as fruity.
514
00:26:55,531 --> 00:26:58,450
Not a back-slapper,
"let's go for a beerโ guy.
515
00:26:58,742 --> 00:27:00,494
Pretty socially incompetent.
516
00:27:01,245 --> 00:27:03,539
Academic, quirky.
517
00:27:03,580 --> 00:27:05,999
Always using a funny story.
518
00:27:06,041 --> 00:27:07,793
He has the Jewish
sense of humor.
519
00:27:08,544 --> 00:27:10,587
He's the consummate Jew.
520
00:27:11,547 --> 00:27:15,467
He was a genius, oddball,
psychobabble kind of guy.
521
00:27:16,885 --> 00:27:17,970
[Harvey Schlossberg] Distrust.
522
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:21,723
{\an8}They were checking on my
advice to make sure it was okay.
523
00:27:22,266 --> 00:27:23,809
{\an8}Remember, this was all new.
524
00:27:24,226 --> 00:27:26,145
This was all relatively
new at the time.
525
00:27:26,186 --> 00:27:29,022
I was comin' up with a
whole bunch of theories.
526
00:27:29,982 --> 00:27:31,775
All the pressures,
527
00:27:31,817 --> 00:27:34,862
and all the anxieties
that we talk about
528
00:27:34,903 --> 00:27:36,572
which affect the criminal
529
00:27:36,864 --> 00:27:40,826
also affect the cop on the
scene the same exact way.
530
00:27:40,868 --> 00:27:43,412
{\an8}We have to reduce the anxiety
531
00:27:43,453 --> 00:27:45,747
{\an8}to get him out of
that panic state.
532
00:27:46,832 --> 00:27:48,834
[clock ticking]
533
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,962
[siren wailing]
534
00:27:58,677 --> 00:28:00,637
[indistinct chatter]
535
00:28:00,679 --> 00:28:02,931
Nobody is certain
of what will happen
536
00:28:02,973 --> 00:28:04,600
{\an8}in this kind of situation.
537
00:28:05,017 --> 00:28:06,226
{\an8}Uh, I must say...
538
00:28:06,268 --> 00:28:07,561
[Al Baker] When Police
Commissioner Murphy
539
00:28:07,603 --> 00:28:09,605
got to the scene
that Friday night,
540
00:28:09,646 --> 00:28:12,107
there was a dead cop
two other cops shot.
541
00:28:13,192 --> 00:28:16,653
{\an8}The question is, "Can we stop
them from killing the hostages?"
542
00:28:19,072 --> 00:28:21,074
{\an8}[Harvey Schlossberg] I was in
a different room than they were.
543
00:28:21,575 --> 00:28:24,661
{\an8}A half a block away.
A cleaning store.
544
00:28:25,162 --> 00:28:27,206
I was in the room where
you sweat and think,
545
00:28:27,247 --> 00:28:28,874
"What the heck is
gonna happen next?"
546
00:28:31,251 --> 00:28:33,170
[Jack Cambria]
Harvey was a traffic cop.
547
00:28:33,670 --> 00:28:35,881
but he had his
PhD in psychology.
548
00:28:38,342 --> 00:28:40,177
He was called out to the scene.
549
00:28:41,303 --> 00:28:45,307
Inside of a sporting goods
store there's butane, ammunition.
550
00:28:45,349 --> 00:28:48,268
The chief wanted to throw
tear gas inside of the store,
551
00:28:48,852 --> 00:28:51,688
but Harvey had to, you
know, convince him that
552
00:28:51,730 --> 00:28:53,232
that would not be
the best approach.
553
00:28:53,815 --> 00:28:56,026
You could start a fire
with all that ammunition,
554
00:28:56,068 --> 00:28:57,736
blow up the entire neighborhood.
555
00:28:59,655 --> 00:29:01,782
The police are really worried.
556
00:29:02,324 --> 00:29:03,659
They get angrier.
557
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:06,203
"Come out with your
hands up or else."
558
00:29:07,621 --> 00:29:09,706
It was the old Wild West.
559
00:29:09,748 --> 00:29:12,668
If you get an open
target, just shoot them.
560
00:29:15,337 --> 00:29:18,590
I told the commissioner,
"You get words going,
561
00:29:18,632 --> 00:29:20,300
then you can calm 'em down."
562
00:29:23,262 --> 00:29:25,138
Hostage negotiating?
563
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:26,640
{\an8}Wh-- What are you talkin' about?
564
00:29:27,307 --> 00:29:30,185
{\an8}We don't-- We don't
negotiate with criminals.
565
00:29:31,853 --> 00:29:34,189
{\an8}A cop became a
cop for law and order.
566
00:29:34,856 --> 00:29:35,899
Victory.
567
00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:40,112
This is not the time for
a Harvey Schlossberg.
568
00:29:40,153 --> 00:29:42,281
This is a time for surprise,
569
00:29:42,990 --> 00:29:44,324
violence of action,
570
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,077
direct lethal force.
571
00:29:49,746 --> 00:29:51,999
[Al Sheppard] Hear this
rumbling coming down Broadway.
572
00:29:52,374 --> 00:29:54,376
It's like a dinosaur
rumbling down the street.
573
00:29:54,418 --> 00:29:56,128
Bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-
bum-bum-bum-bum.
574
00:29:56,670 --> 00:29:58,380
And I'm goin', "What
the fuck is that?
575
00:29:58,422 --> 00:29:59,881
{\an8}Is that what I think it is?"
576
00:29:59,923 --> 00:30:01,925
{\an8}[rumbling]
577
00:30:04,052 --> 00:30:05,262
[Shu'aib Raheem] Oh, Lord.
578
00:30:06,013 --> 00:30:07,931
Did anyone committing
579
00:30:07,973 --> 00:30:09,891
what we thought
was a small robbery
580
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,269
ever anticipate
581
00:30:12,978 --> 00:30:15,147
confronting a t-- [chuckles]
582
00:30:15,188 --> 00:30:16,231
a tank?
583
00:30:16,273 --> 00:30:18,275
[rumbling]
584
00:30:19,943 --> 00:30:22,070
They were telling us
that if we didn't come out,
585
00:30:22,404 --> 00:30:25,032
they was gonna drive the
tank right inside the store.
586
00:30:28,535 --> 00:30:29,953
[Harvey Schlossberg]
Oh, no, no, no, no,
587
00:30:29,995 --> 00:30:31,330
that's the worst
thing you can do.
588
00:30:32,706 --> 00:30:36,543
An ultimatum is trying to
frighten them into surrendering,
589
00:30:36,585 --> 00:30:39,046
and most people in
a situation like that
590
00:30:39,087 --> 00:30:40,339
don't get frightened.
591
00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:42,924
-[gunshots]
-That just angers them.
592
00:30:43,342 --> 00:30:44,968
They may go off the deep end.
593
00:30:45,010 --> 00:30:47,012
[gunshots]
594
00:30:47,429 --> 00:30:50,182
[Al Baker] The bad guys, they're
bouncin' rounds off the tank.
595
00:30:51,266 --> 00:30:54,603
Four guys who just killed a cop
and have 12 people at gunpoint
596
00:30:54,644 --> 00:30:57,814
in a-- in an ammunition-filled
environment,
597
00:30:58,648 --> 00:31:00,734
and you're gonna-- you're
gonna play hardball with them?
598
00:31:01,568 --> 00:31:02,611
I don't think so.
599
00:31:04,154 --> 00:31:06,156
[indistinct chatter]
600
00:31:07,949 --> 00:31:09,826
[police radio chatter]
601
00:31:09,868 --> 00:31:11,703
[man on radio] It's
2:54 in Midtown.
602
00:31:11,745 --> 00:31:13,497
I'm Drew Scott, WXLO News,
603
00:31:13,538 --> 00:31:15,791
with the top
stories of the hour.
604
00:31:15,832 --> 00:31:17,959
A standoff continues
on the shivering streets
605
00:31:18,001 --> 00:31:19,836
of the Williamsburg
section of Brooklyn
606
00:31:19,878 --> 00:31:22,381
between the cops and robbers
of that sporting goods store.
607
00:31:25,884 --> 00:31:28,887
[7]
608
00:31:31,598 --> 00:31:33,266
[Jerry Riccio] The
leader comes over to me.
609
00:31:33,308 --> 00:31:35,143
I says, "Want a cup of coffee?"
610
00:31:35,185 --> 00:31:37,270
He says, "You'd make
me a cup of coffee?
611
00:31:38,146 --> 00:31:39,815
I'm holding you hostage."
612
00:31:40,774 --> 00:31:42,943
I says, "Well, if you
look out the door,
613
00:31:42,984 --> 00:31:45,278
got about 5,000 guys
holdin' you hostage."
614
00:31:48,657 --> 00:31:50,367
And he says, "I'll
have a cup of coffee.โ
615
00:31:53,870 --> 00:31:55,580
If he was a
customer in the store,
616
00:31:55,622 --> 00:31:57,207
he would have been
a decent character.
617
00:31:58,041 --> 00:31:59,584
I spoke to them straight out.
618
00:31:59,626 --> 00:32:02,254
No neighborhood type
conversation like, you know, like,
619
00:32:02,295 --> 00:32:05,048
"Hey, bro! You're
doin'--" None of that.
620
00:32:05,090 --> 00:32:06,425
Nobody wants to hear that shit.
621
00:32:08,593 --> 00:32:10,804
I talked to him like I was
talkin' to another person.
622
00:32:11,138 --> 00:32:12,848
Not my bro.
623
00:32:13,390 --> 00:32:14,516
He wasn't my bro.
624
00:32:15,308 --> 00:32:16,601
We're all in a mess down here.
625
00:32:16,643 --> 00:32:18,645
Everybody's cryin',
everybody's separated.
626
00:32:18,687 --> 00:32:20,814
I says, "If you want
to keep an eye on us,
627
00:32:21,898 --> 00:32:24,109
take us upstairs to the
Boy Scout department.โ
628
00:32:26,695 --> 00:32:29,573
We all go upstairs, no
one knows what I have.
629
00:32:31,533 --> 00:32:33,869
I got a 9mm Smith & Wesson.
630
00:32:34,578 --> 00:32:35,829
Gun's in the desk.
631
00:32:37,372 --> 00:32:39,207
In the dark, I take my keys out.
632
00:32:40,208 --> 00:32:42,919
[mimics coughing]
Cough a little bit, turn it.
633
00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:49,009
[mimics coughing]
634
00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:53,972
Now I got the loaded 9mm.
635
00:32:54,931 --> 00:32:56,391
Who do I shoot first?
636
00:32:57,184 --> 00:32:58,268
The leader.
637
00:32:58,727 --> 00:32:59,978
He would have been the guy
638
00:33:00,020 --> 00:33:01,730
{\an8}that might have been
able to do something.
639
00:33:04,274 --> 00:33:06,693
{\an8}The number three guy second.
640
00:33:08,862 --> 00:33:10,822
{\an8}The quiet guy,
leave him to last,
641
00:33:10,864 --> 00:33:12,657
because if he seen
his friends goin' down,
642
00:33:12,699 --> 00:33:14,284
he would turn to mush.
643
00:33:16,912 --> 00:33:19,331
{\an8}[Al Baker] It's an
explosive situation.
644
00:33:20,790 --> 00:33:22,626
{\an8}We want to control
that perimeter.
645
00:33:24,336 --> 00:33:25,754
They had the barricades up,
646
00:33:25,795 --> 00:33:28,131
but people are out there
yelling and screaming.
647
00:33:28,173 --> 00:33:30,175
[crowd noise]
648
00:33:30,217 --> 00:33:33,053
[7]
649
00:33:33,094 --> 00:33:35,555
[Brian Tuohy] "Shortly after
midnight, a melee breaks out.
650
00:33:35,597 --> 00:33:38,475
"between police and
a group of 40 youths.
651
00:33:38,517 --> 00:33:41,144
"At least one cop
seen clubbing youths.
652
00:33:41,811 --> 00:33:44,773
Three teenagers arrested,
one bleeding profusely.โ
653
00:33:47,234 --> 00:33:49,778
"These are revolutionary
brothers in there, man.
654
00:33:49,819 --> 00:33:52,906
Power to the people," you
know, "Yeah, man, yeah!"
655
00:33:52,948 --> 00:33:56,201
โช War... โช
656
00:33:56,910 --> 00:34:01,039
โช Is coming โช
657
00:34:01,623 --> 00:34:04,960
J.T
658
00:34:05,001 --> 00:34:08,880
โช Can feel it in the air โช
659
00:34:08,922 --> 00:34:11,216
[Shu'aib Raheem] Every time
they heard a shot from the store,
660
00:34:11,258 --> 00:34:12,509
they were cheering.
661
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:15,428
โCause we stood
up to the police.
662
00:34:15,887 --> 00:34:18,557
[7]
663
00:34:18,598 --> 00:34:20,892
โช Preachers are preachin' โช
664
00:34:21,601 --> 00:34:24,437
[Al Baker] As a commander,
you're gonna have to factor in
665
00:34:24,479 --> 00:34:26,898
the crowd reaction
if we make entry.
666
00:34:26,940 --> 00:34:29,276
If suspects die,
667
00:34:29,317 --> 00:34:32,445
this thing is gonna end in a
fire and brimstone manner.
668
00:34:34,155 --> 00:34:35,782
It's a complete powder keg.
669
00:34:37,492 --> 00:34:38,493
Now what do you do?
670
00:34:42,289 --> 00:34:44,916
Do anything you can
to make a conversation.
671
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:47,210
You must get them to talk.
672
00:34:50,672 --> 00:34:52,257
But they have a problem.
673
00:34:52,299 --> 00:34:54,384
They ripped the phone wires out.
674
00:34:55,135 --> 00:34:56,845
There's no way to talk.
675
00:35:01,516 --> 00:35:05,395
[Shu'aib Raheem] They told us
to communicate by flashing lights.
676
00:35:07,814 --> 00:35:10,734
Hit once for "no"
and two for "yes."
677
00:35:11,776 --> 00:35:13,778
Are there people
inside the store?
678
00:35:13,820 --> 00:35:16,281
Bang, bang. Yes.
679
00:35:16,323 --> 00:35:18,783
Are any of your people hurt
and need medical attention?
680
00:35:18,825 --> 00:35:19,826
Yes.
681
00:35:20,994 --> 00:35:23,038
They asked us
to release one girl.
682
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,707
We asked Fonnie Buckner.
683
00:35:27,626 --> 00:35:29,586
{\an8}[Alice Buckner] My
mother loved to laugh.
684
00:35:30,045 --> 00:35:32,464
{\an8}Vibrant. Full of life.
685
00:35:33,006 --> 00:35:35,634
Get out there, take her
classes, go to work every day.
686
00:35:36,801 --> 00:35:39,638
I was shocked when she
started buying skirts and dresses.
687
00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:41,389
I'm like, , 8 v "Mom,
what's goin' on?
688
00:35:41,431 --> 00:35:42,724
She's like, "Got a promotion."
689
00:35:43,683 --> 00:35:44,726
Mm-hm.
690
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:50,106
{\an8}For New York Life.
She loved that job.
691
00:35:51,149 --> 00:35:52,651
And they were promoting her.
692
00:35:54,277 --> 00:35:56,363
Until this happened to her.
693
00:35:56,404 --> 00:35:57,906
And once this happened,
694
00:35:58,365 --> 00:36:00,367
it was like...
695
00:36:00,408 --> 00:36:02,077
she went into a shell...
696
00:36:04,663 --> 00:36:06,373
[Rosemary Catalano] We
were behind the cabinet
697
00:36:06,414 --> 00:36:07,707
in the Boy Scout area.
698
00:36:08,500 --> 00:36:10,043
I felt for her,
699
00:36:10,085 --> 00:36:13,254
so I kind of took on the
role to try and keep her calm.
700
00:36:15,048 --> 00:36:17,217
She was crying and shaking
701
00:36:17,258 --> 00:36:19,552
{\an8}and just could not...
702
00:36:20,011 --> 00:36:22,222
{\an8}uh, just could not
compose herself.
703
00:36:23,973 --> 00:36:26,351
She was the most afraid.
704
00:36:26,393 --> 00:36:28,144
So just tri-- tried
to get her to go.
705
00:36:29,688 --> 00:36:31,314
She refused to go out.
706
00:36:32,649 --> 00:36:34,275
She didn't trust the police.
707
00:36:34,776 --> 00:36:36,111
She wanted to stay with us.
708
00:36:37,862 --> 00:36:40,865
[7]
709
00:36:43,993 --> 00:36:45,203
[man]
710
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:47,455
{\an8}[Shu'aib Raheem]
That's when we sent out
711
00:36:47,497 --> 00:36:48,832
{\an8}one of the people in the store.
712
00:36:50,417 --> 00:36:52,669
Goin' through my mind inside,
713
00:36:53,044 --> 00:36:54,337
man, I've done everything I can
714
00:36:54,379 --> 00:36:55,797
to try to talk to
you people, man,
715
00:36:55,839 --> 00:36:56,965
come on, man.
716
00:36:57,716 --> 00:36:59,426
Shit's f-ed up, you know?
717
00:37:00,385 --> 00:37:02,137
Give us a chance
to surrender, man.
718
00:37:03,763 --> 00:37:05,765
[clock ticking]
719
00:37:10,061 --> 00:37:11,855
I'm Drew Scott, WXLO News,
720
00:37:11,896 --> 00:37:14,149
with the top
stories of the hour.
721
00:37:14,190 --> 00:37:16,568
{\an8}The stand off continues
between the cops and robbers
722
00:37:16,609 --> 00:37:17,902
{\an8}at that sporting goods store.
723
00:37:18,862 --> 00:37:20,864
{\an8}[indistinct chatter]
724
00:37:22,323 --> 00:37:25,577
[Harvey Schlossberg] A think tank
was formed at the police headquarters
725
00:37:26,244 --> 00:37:28,580
Different agencies.
726
00:37:28,621 --> 00:37:30,165
I was there.
727
00:37:31,541 --> 00:37:33,835
Police tend to be conservative.
728
00:37:34,669 --> 00:37:36,379
Nobody wanted change.
729
00:37:37,130 --> 00:37:39,924
They all believed if you
gave me the right gun
730
00:37:39,966 --> 00:37:42,761
with the right bullet, I
can put everybody out.
731
00:37:43,970 --> 00:37:46,097
But I don't think
it works that easy.
732
00:37:46,890 --> 00:37:48,308
That's a Hollywood thing.
733
00:37:49,350 --> 00:37:51,060
{\an8}[Jack Cambria] Must have
been the hardest thing for Harvey
734
00:37:51,102 --> 00:37:52,979
{\an8}to change an
ingrained belief system.
735
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,064
These staunch critics.
736
00:37:56,065 --> 00:37:57,317
"Now we're gonna talk?
737
00:37:57,942 --> 00:37:59,444
"To these individuals?
738
00:37:59,486 --> 00:38:00,612
We're not social workers."
739
00:38:02,530 --> 00:38:04,908
The most difficult thing in the
world to change is a culture.
740
00:38:06,159 --> 00:38:08,119
[indistinct dialog]
741
00:38:08,161 --> 00:38:09,746
[Al Baker] You take
your Pat Murphy.
742
00:38:09,788 --> 00:38:11,289
Notorious book guy.
743
00:38:11,915 --> 00:38:14,042
Liberal, progressive
police commissioner.
744
00:38:14,959 --> 00:38:16,920
Are you following his
orders? Absolutely.
745
00:38:17,295 --> 00:38:19,130
Do you respect him? No.
746
00:38:19,172 --> 00:38:20,715
Very grateful for that.
747
00:38:20,757 --> 00:38:22,467
[Al Baker] He was hated.
He was a bookworm.
748
00:38:22,842 --> 00:38:25,345
Not a warrior from the ranks.
749
00:38:26,554 --> 00:38:28,181
[Al Sheppard] He
was a pantywaist.
750
00:38:28,223 --> 00:38:29,516
He had no balls.
751
00:38:29,849 --> 00:38:31,226
All prim and proper.
752
00:38:31,935 --> 00:38:33,561
He's puckering his ass
753
00:38:33,603 --> 00:38:35,271
{\an8}โcause if something
goes down wrong,
754
00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:37,190
{\an8}he's gonna be holding the bag.
755
00:38:38,858 --> 00:38:41,653
[Harvey Schlossberg] I didn't think
they would change their attitude.
756
00:38:42,821 --> 00:38:46,074
I truly believe the only
reason they called me
757
00:38:46,115 --> 00:38:50,078
was because they realized
someone has to be responsible.
758
00:38:51,788 --> 00:38:53,540
If it goes bad,
759
00:38:53,581 --> 00:38:55,083
they're gonna blame Harvey.
760
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,879
But I believed police could
actually influence people,
761
00:38:59,921 --> 00:39:01,381
and get them to do things
762
00:39:01,422 --> 00:39:04,467
without bullying and
force and threats.
763
00:39:05,635 --> 00:39:07,387
I told 'em what I thought.
764
00:39:09,722 --> 00:39:11,307
[Jack Cambria] The
commissioner agreed with him.
765
00:39:12,684 --> 00:39:14,269
We're not a team of assassins.
766
00:39:15,478 --> 00:39:17,021
Harvey succeeded.
767
00:39:18,731 --> 00:39:21,025
[Al Baker] Commissioner
Murphy made that decision,
768
00:39:21,067 --> 00:39:24,904
establishing hostage
negotiation as the way forward.
769
00:39:26,823 --> 00:39:29,117
[man] Commissioner, can you
tell us the sequence of events?
770
00:39:29,158 --> 00:39:31,828
I think Deputy Commissioner
Ward, who was closest to that,
771
00:39:31,870 --> 00:39:33,204
could say a word about it.
772
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,082
[indistinct chatter]
773
00:39:40,336 --> 00:39:42,380
All right, the
strategy at all times
774
00:39:42,422 --> 00:39:44,841
was to open lines
of communication
775
00:39:45,258 --> 00:39:46,676
{\an8}with the people on the inside.
776
00:39:47,677 --> 00:39:49,929
{\an8}I was in the armored
personnel carrier.
777
00:39:52,015 --> 00:39:54,601
[Toni Schlossberg] Ben
Ward heard Harvey's trainings
778
00:39:55,727 --> 00:39:59,022
{\an8}He would say, "If Harvey
says to do it the way,
779
00:39:59,063 --> 00:40:00,481
{\an8}this is what we're going to do.
780
00:40:01,691 --> 00:40:04,277
Harvey would be there to coach.
781
00:40:04,861 --> 00:40:06,863
He would not be
the guy on the phone.
782
00:40:07,739 --> 00:40:09,657
He would guide
what was happening.
783
00:40:09,949 --> 00:40:11,951
[indistinct chatter]
784
00:40:13,286 --> 00:40:15,288
[police radio chatter]
785
00:40:19,083 --> 00:40:20,710
[phone ringing]
786
00:40:22,295 --> 00:40:24,631
I was home with a young baby.
787
00:40:25,506 --> 00:40:27,383
{\an8}Ben Ward called,
788
00:40:27,425 --> 00:40:29,761
{\an8}asked would I come
out to Brooklyn.
789
00:40:30,345 --> 00:40:33,014
I was floored the
police wanted me,
790
00:40:33,056 --> 00:40:34,891
their enemy, to help.
791
00:40:36,225 --> 00:40:39,228
{\an8}I'm a lawyer for people
who are fighting the state.
792
00:40:40,396 --> 00:40:42,899
{\an8}I had just finished
the Panther 21 case,
793
00:40:42,941 --> 00:40:46,903
which had as a main allegation
blowing up police precincts.
794
00:40:48,905 --> 00:40:50,323
It was a shock.
795
00:40:51,115 --> 00:40:54,285
But then again, Ben
Ward was different.
796
00:40:57,121 --> 00:41:01,292
{\an8}A black man in the middle
of all of this race conflict,
797
00:41:01,668 --> 00:41:04,170
{\an8}and he had an
understanding of us.
798
00:41:04,212 --> 00:41:05,380
the Panthers.
799
00:41:07,590 --> 00:41:09,676
{\an8}I always had a
fond feeling for him.
800
00:41:10,635 --> 00:41:12,053
{\an8}And I think it was mutual.
801
00:41:12,804 --> 00:41:14,806
[indistinct shouting]
802
00:41:22,105 --> 00:41:23,606
[Al Baker] Lefcourt was hated.
803
00:41:23,648 --> 00:41:24,899
{\an8}He was a radical lawyer.
804
00:41:25,608 --> 00:41:26,943
{\an8}Enemy of the police.
805
00:41:27,777 --> 00:41:29,821
{\an8}Why are we kowtowing
to these people?
806
00:41:31,114 --> 00:41:32,532
{\an8}[Al Sheppard] Friggin' outraged.
807
00:41:32,573 --> 00:41:35,159
Allowing the attorney to
come in and kiss their ass,
808
00:41:35,201 --> 00:41:36,744
and "I'm gonna
represent you," you know,
809
00:41:36,786 --> 00:41:38,955
and-- and everything's
gonna be hunky-dory,
810
00:41:38,997 --> 00:41:40,206
this'll be okay.
811
00:41:41,958 --> 00:41:43,584
[Gerald Lefcourt] They
asked whether we could
812
00:41:43,626 --> 00:41:45,628
get them to pick
up a walkie-talkie.
813
00:41:45,962 --> 00:41:47,422
[indistinct radio chatter]
814
00:41:47,463 --> 00:41:49,841
[man] Easy. Easy. Easy.
815
00:41:51,676 --> 00:41:53,678
{\an8}[man on bullhorn]
816
00:41:57,140 --> 00:41:59,142
{\an8}[gunshots]
817
00:42:00,935 --> 00:42:02,520
-[man] Okay--
-[gunshots]
818
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,108
[gunshots continue]
819
00:42:09,444 --> 00:42:11,195
Now they want to talk.
820
00:42:11,237 --> 00:42:13,906
They puttin' these strange
people on the speaker.
821
00:42:14,282 --> 00:42:17,285
We weren't in a speakin' mood
because they were in a tank.
822
00:42:18,786 --> 00:42:21,539
I could not believe I
was being fired upon.
823
00:42:52,278 --> 00:42:53,488
[Gerald Lefcourt] Nothing.
824
00:42:57,450 --> 00:42:59,452
[indistinct chatter]
825
00:43:01,704 --> 00:43:04,707
[7]
826
00:43:08,377 --> 00:43:10,963
When I went outside
to get the walkie-talkie,
827
00:43:11,005 --> 00:43:13,424
{\an8}I see more cops than
I've ever seen in my life.
828
00:43:14,634 --> 00:43:17,178
{\an8}I see people all
on the side streets.
829
00:43:17,220 --> 00:43:19,222
[indistinct chatter]
830
00:43:21,474 --> 00:43:23,059
As soon as I walked
out the door I knew,
831
00:43:23,101 --> 00:43:25,645
I could have waltzed
out of the store.
832
00:43:25,686 --> 00:43:26,896
Escaped.
833
00:43:30,691 --> 00:43:31,776
I thought about it.
834
00:43:32,693 --> 00:43:34,278
I got a family.
835
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:35,363
Wife.
836
00:43:35,905 --> 00:43:37,490
I thought about my daughter.
837
00:43:41,202 --> 00:43:42,995
It's hard to figure.
838
00:43:43,037 --> 00:43:44,997
Especially if you ran
away and people got killed.
839
00:43:50,628 --> 00:43:52,463
Then you gotta live
with that afterwards.
840
00:43:53,381 --> 00:43:56,134
They said, "Everybody except
for Rosemary was a minority."
841
00:43:56,884 --> 00:43:58,136
I says, "No, no, no, no.
842
00:43:58,761 --> 00:44:01,013
"What everybody in this
store was was a human being.
843
00:44:04,892 --> 00:44:06,811
I'm not abandoning
a human being."
844
00:44:09,230 --> 00:44:11,274
[Shu'aib Raheem] The
walkie-talkie was broken.
845
00:44:11,858 --> 00:44:13,860
I guess them
throwing it broke it.
846
00:44:14,318 --> 00:44:15,778
And we threw it back out.
847
00:44:17,488 --> 00:44:19,657
[man on radio] Everybody
stand pat. Everybody stand pat.
848
00:44:21,993 --> 00:44:23,703
Whatever devices we brought in,
849
00:44:23,744 --> 00:44:27,456
whatever convincing we
tried to do to get them to talk,
850
00:44:28,374 --> 00:44:30,626
none of it was productive.
851
00:44:33,337 --> 00:44:35,882
I don't think we had any
idea who these guys were.
852
00:44:37,216 --> 00:44:38,718
Why they were in there.
853
00:44:45,558 --> 00:44:48,561
[7]
854
00:44:52,773 --> 00:44:55,151
[Shu'aib Raheem] Growing up
here in Brownsville, in Brooklyn,
855
00:44:55,193 --> 00:44:58,362
I remember eating ketchup
sandwiches and drinking sugar water.
856
00:45:01,490 --> 00:45:02,742
We were struggling.
857
00:45:03,075 --> 00:45:05,244
There were five kids in the
house with Mom and Dad.
858
00:45:05,578 --> 00:45:07,997
You got a lot of table pimps.
859
00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:10,583
We call 'em crumb snatchers,
we were all crumb snatchers.
860
00:45:10,625 --> 00:45:12,919
So there was all-- We
was always hungry.
861
00:45:14,629 --> 00:45:16,088
{\an8}Your first love is Mom.
862
00:45:16,923 --> 00:45:19,008
{\an8}She was like a
mentor, a teacher.
863
00:45:21,969 --> 00:45:23,721
{\an8}My father was my hero.
864
00:45:24,931 --> 00:45:26,307
I wanted to be just like him.
865
00:45:30,269 --> 00:45:33,439
{\an8}And then one day I discovered
that he was not my father.
866
00:45:34,690 --> 00:45:36,317
{\an8}Just...
867
00:45:36,359 --> 00:45:39,195
{\an8}sent my self-esteem
into a tailspin.
868
00:45:42,406 --> 00:45:45,660
Began even doubting that
my mom was even my mom.
869
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,663
{\an8}I said, "What other
lies have y'all told me?
870
00:45:50,414 --> 00:45:51,457
{\an8}Who am I?
871
00:45:53,751 --> 00:45:55,795
Trust is a big, big thing.
872
00:45:56,254 --> 00:45:59,215
I would have these
nightmares about falling.
873
00:46:00,675 --> 00:46:03,511
I was searching. Oh, my
God, I was searching for
874
00:46:03,552 --> 00:46:05,304
some sense in the world.
875
00:46:06,722 --> 00:46:08,933
I started drinking when I
was about 11 years old.
876
00:46:09,475 --> 00:46:13,187
My 16th birthday, I
drank myself into a coma.
877
00:46:17,316 --> 00:46:19,610
I had...
878
00:46:19,652 --> 00:46:22,113
actually contemplated
suicide before then
879
00:46:22,154 --> 00:46:25,533
because my life was--
had bottomed out.
880
00:46:26,993 --> 00:46:28,869
I was, uh, lost.
881
00:46:29,745 --> 00:46:31,664
For somebody to take hostages,
882
00:46:31,706 --> 00:46:35,001
they're in either psychological
or emotional pain.
883
00:46:35,751 --> 00:46:39,130
I'm absolutely curious
about who the gunman is,
884
00:46:39,171 --> 00:46:41,799
and I'm starting to look
for those kind of clues.
885
00:46:43,759 --> 00:46:46,053
I'm there to listen
and empathize.
886
00:46:46,095 --> 00:46:48,389
I'm his little Jiminy Cricket.
887
00:46:48,931 --> 00:46:50,558
I'm his little conscience.
888
00:46:53,144 --> 00:46:55,062
[Shu'aib Raheem] I
started reading the Koran.
889
00:46:55,730 --> 00:46:59,066
When I took my shahada
with the Sunni community,
890
00:46:59,859 --> 00:47:01,944
I cried tears of joy.
891
00:47:03,946 --> 00:47:06,866
Like looking for
a long lost friend,
892
00:47:06,907 --> 00:47:08,367
and finally meeting him.
893
00:47:09,452 --> 00:47:11,037
Oh, God, there you are.
894
00:47:13,914 --> 00:47:16,334
It made me feel relieved.
895
00:47:16,375 --> 00:47:17,543
Free.
896
00:47:18,836 --> 00:47:19,879
Sane.
897
00:47:20,504 --> 00:47:22,214
For the first time in my life.
898
00:47:22,673 --> 00:47:25,343
Life had meaning.
The world had meaning.
899
00:47:25,384 --> 00:47:27,345
โช Yeah, yeah, yeah โช
900
00:47:28,054 --> 00:47:30,014
โช Yeah โช
901
00:47:30,848 --> 00:47:34,101
Soon, my life was in
danger because of my faith.
902
00:47:35,353 --> 00:47:37,271
The Nation of Islam.
903
00:47:37,730 --> 00:47:39,482
{\an8}We were deadly enemies.
904
00:47:39,523 --> 00:47:41,859
{\an8}โช Don't mess with people โช
905
00:47:42,485 --> 00:47:45,112
There's nothing Islamic
about The Nation.
906
00:47:45,154 --> 00:47:48,449
โช Those other folks
stand and chant... โช
907
00:47:48,824 --> 00:47:50,618
They believe that
the Black Man is from
908
00:47:50,659 --> 00:47:52,787
the Lost and Found
Nation of Shabazz,
909
00:47:53,496 --> 00:47:54,997
the white man is the devil.
910
00:47:55,039 --> 00:47:56,791
โช Ain't no lie โช
911
00:47:56,832 --> 00:47:59,085
This invented mythology.
912
00:47:59,126 --> 00:48:01,003
โช Yeah โช
913
00:48:01,045 --> 00:48:02,505
They believe every single word,
914
00:48:02,546 --> 00:48:04,382
and some of them
would kill for it.
915
00:48:06,217 --> 00:48:09,512
Any time you
question their claims,
916
00:48:09,845 --> 00:48:11,722
you are met with threats.
917
00:48:12,390 --> 00:48:14,600
We was having
confrontations all over the city.
918
00:48:15,643 --> 00:48:17,019
Assaults,
919
00:48:17,061 --> 00:48:19,438
firebombing in the
mosque up in Harlem.
920
00:48:20,064 --> 00:48:22,650
One of them tried
to proselytize me.
921
00:48:23,317 --> 00:48:25,111
I say, "You say the
white man is the devil?"
922
00:48:26,070 --> 00:48:27,530
"That's right, Black man."
923
00:48:28,155 --> 00:48:32,743
I said, "But the man
who you worship as Allah,
924
00:48:32,785 --> 00:48:35,621
{\an8}"his name is Wallace
Fard Mohammed.
925
00:48:36,038 --> 00:48:37,248
{\an8}"He's a white man.
926
00:48:37,706 --> 00:48:39,291
"And if the white
man is the devil,
927
00:48:39,333 --> 00:48:41,001
that means you're
a devil-worshiper."
928
00:48:41,335 --> 00:48:43,754
Oh, man, he got furious.
929
00:48:43,796 --> 00:48:45,881
"They'll cut out your
tongue for that, brother.โ
930
00:48:49,218 --> 00:48:52,555
Matter of days, he
came to my house
931
00:48:52,596 --> 00:48:54,557
with about four other men.
932
00:48:56,642 --> 00:48:58,269
"We just wanna
talk to you, brother."
933
00:49:00,729 --> 00:49:02,398
These are the soldiers.
934
00:49:04,275 --> 00:49:05,526
It became clear to me
935
00:49:05,568 --> 00:49:07,820
they were gonna
really hurt me really bad.
936
00:49:12,158 --> 00:49:14,118
And I applied for a gun permit.
937
00:49:14,994 --> 00:49:16,412
The desk sergeant, he says,
938
00:49:16,454 --> 00:49:18,539
"You know we're gonna
probably turn it down anyway.
939
00:49:18,581 --> 00:49:19,707
You don't really need a gun.โ
940
00:49:20,791 --> 00:49:23,335
"You know, we're
Muslims and we're Sunni,
941
00:49:23,377 --> 00:49:25,629
and Sunni, I--" you know,
and they was like laughing,
942
00:49:25,671 --> 00:49:28,090
"What's the difference?
They all Muslims.โ
943
00:49:28,966 --> 00:49:30,509
Who cares?
944
00:49:30,551 --> 00:49:32,845
You know, don't confuse me
with someone who gives a crap.
945
00:49:33,137 --> 00:49:35,181
You know? Okay,
so you're a Sunni
946
00:49:35,222 --> 00:49:36,891
and you're Jihadist,
947
00:49:36,932 --> 00:49:38,934
and you got this
cause, that cause.
948
00:49:40,186 --> 00:49:43,189
We weren't certain of who
these Black Muslims were
949
00:49:43,230 --> 00:49:45,858
with these skull caps
and these flowing robes.
950
00:49:46,817 --> 00:49:47,985
We didn't trust them.
951
00:49:48,777 --> 00:49:50,946
We knew that
they didn't trust us.
952
00:49:53,282 --> 00:49:55,242
[Shu'aib Raheem]
My wife hated guns.
953
00:49:55,784 --> 00:49:57,661
I purchased a gun anyway.
954
00:49:58,245 --> 00:50:00,080
But I said, "You have
to learn how to use this.
955
00:50:00,122 --> 00:50:01,790
You never know,
you may need it."
956
00:50:03,626 --> 00:50:07,713
When criticism was leveled
against The Nation of Islam,
957
00:50:07,755 --> 00:50:10,132
they reacted in
some violent ways.
958
00:50:10,174 --> 00:50:13,302
They broke into his
apartment some kind of way.
959
00:50:14,428 --> 00:50:17,139
His wife was in
one of the rooms.
960
00:50:20,226 --> 00:50:22,144
[Shu'aib Raheem] She was
in the bed, under the covers.
961
00:50:22,186 --> 00:50:25,898
They lifted the window up,
stepped into the bedroom.
962
00:50:26,941 --> 00:50:29,401
She jumped up and pointed
at him and just started shootin',
963
00:50:29,443 --> 00:50:31,111
and he escaped out the window.
964
00:50:31,153 --> 00:50:34,156
[7]
965
00:50:36,784 --> 00:50:38,077
Oh, God.
966
00:50:39,245 --> 00:50:40,955
She was never
the same after that.
967
00:50:44,291 --> 00:50:46,669
As soon as I came
home, I called the police.
968
00:50:47,002 --> 00:50:50,756
It took them two days
to come to my house.
969
00:50:53,926 --> 00:50:55,928
I asked for a 24 hour guard.
970
00:50:57,429 --> 00:50:59,765
For Black people? [chuckles]
971
00:51:00,516 --> 00:51:02,851
The police didn't care about us.
972
00:51:03,185 --> 00:51:05,479
We never discriminated
against anybody.
973
00:51:05,521 --> 00:51:08,857
I mean, uh, I-- I can't
tell you how many--
974
00:51:08,899 --> 00:51:12,611
how many Black
people lives I saved.
975
00:51:12,653 --> 00:51:17,449
I think we over--
over-define racism
976
00:51:17,491 --> 00:51:21,120
as, uh, something bad,
977
00:51:21,161 --> 00:51:23,789
when in reality,
978
00:51:24,331 --> 00:51:26,250
we want to be with our own kind.
979
00:51:27,293 --> 00:51:29,086
Yeah, you had the slavery,
980
00:51:29,128 --> 00:51:31,463
but think of how
great America is.
981
00:51:32,673 --> 00:51:34,049
What did I ever do wrong?
982
00:51:34,091 --> 00:51:36,969
I-- I wasn't responsible
for slavery or racism
983
00:51:38,721 --> 00:51:41,056
The only way we're
gonna end the racism
984
00:51:41,098 --> 00:51:42,975
is let people decide
for themselves
985
00:51:43,017 --> 00:51:44,435
who they want to be with.
986
00:51:47,313 --> 00:51:50,107
[Al Sheppard] Some cops
became really, like, anti-Black,
987
00:51:50,149 --> 00:51:53,277
but, you know, it was
more of an occupying army
988
00:51:53,319 --> 00:51:54,612
than it was of anything else.
989
00:51:55,237 --> 00:51:57,281
An army of occupation
of the ghetto, you know?
990
00:51:57,865 --> 00:51:59,908
And that's been
through the ages.
991
00:52:00,868 --> 00:52:03,162
The Constitution was
flushed down the toilet.
992
00:52:05,414 --> 00:52:08,292
Policing nowadays, some of them
never have been around Black people.
993
00:52:09,043 --> 00:52:10,544
Everybody is a SWAT member,
994
00:52:10,836 --> 00:52:13,088
they have no communication
with the people on the street.
995
00:52:13,130 --> 00:52:15,924
They just go by in these
smoked out windows and--
996
00:52:15,966 --> 00:52:17,259
More like a Gestapo.
997
00:52:17,843 --> 00:52:20,137
You know, if you can't
get to know the people,
998
00:52:20,179 --> 00:52:21,722
that's not effective policing.
999
00:52:22,222 --> 00:52:25,893
[7]
1000
00:52:25,934 --> 00:52:27,561
[Walter Cronkite] Here in
Washington this evening,
1001
00:52:27,603 --> 00:52:30,522
six persons reported
killed in a wave of violence
1002
00:52:30,564 --> 00:52:32,316
including shooting at a home
1003
00:52:32,358 --> 00:52:34,193
{\an8}owned by Kareem Abdul-Jabar,
1004
00:52:34,234 --> 00:52:36,445
{\an8}the pro basketball star.
1005
00:52:36,487 --> 00:52:38,364
{\an8}[reporter] Two adults
and a child shot,
1006
00:52:38,405 --> 00:52:40,783
four children
drowned in a bathtub.
1007
00:52:40,824 --> 00:52:43,619
Two other adults, both women,
shot in the head survived.
1008
00:52:46,914 --> 00:52:49,041
[Dawud Rahman] The
Nation of Islam actually killed
1009
00:52:49,083 --> 00:52:50,959
a family of Sunni Muslims.
1010
00:52:52,378 --> 00:52:54,088
Fear. Panic.
1011
00:52:57,049 --> 00:52:59,385
It's the most grotesque--
1012
00:52:59,927 --> 00:53:02,388
I mean, despic-- I
mean, the-- the news.
1013
00:53:02,971 --> 00:53:05,265
They shot a two-year-old
baby in the head.
1014
00:53:06,517 --> 00:53:09,603
That was the straw that
broke the camel's back.
1015
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,235
Dawud and Salih,
1016
00:53:16,276 --> 00:53:18,070
we saw what
happened on the news.
1017
00:53:19,655 --> 00:53:21,657
I had one gun
with three bullets.
1018
00:53:21,699 --> 00:53:23,617
[chuckles]
1019
00:53:24,785 --> 00:53:26,578
.25 automatic.
1020
00:53:27,037 --> 00:53:29,873
I wanted a shotgun, and ammo.
1021
00:53:31,917 --> 00:53:35,379
To protect out families
and to stop these maniacs.
1022
00:53:37,256 --> 00:53:39,466
That was a terrible decision.
1023
00:53:40,259 --> 00:53:41,885
But...
1024
00:53:44,221 --> 00:53:46,515
Believe it or not, you
researched it a little bit more,
1025
00:53:46,557 --> 00:53:48,475
they wanted five guns.
1026
00:53:48,892 --> 00:53:51,520
They could have
driven to Nassau County.
1027
00:53:53,063 --> 00:53:54,481
The first one, the leader,
1028
00:53:54,523 --> 00:53:57,109
didn't have a--
a criminal record.
1029
00:53:57,401 --> 00:53:59,570
He could have
bought them legally.
1030
00:54:00,988 --> 00:54:02,990
[clock ticking]
1031
00:54:05,826 --> 00:54:07,828
[traffic noise]
1032
00:54:10,289 --> 00:54:12,458
[man on radio] Temperature
27 degrees in Midtown.
1033
00:54:12,499 --> 00:54:14,960
On the scene, Tom Foty reports.
1034
00:54:15,002 --> 00:54:16,587
[Tom Foty] The
standoff continues
1035
00:54:16,628 --> 00:54:18,297
in an atmosphere
of uneasy quiet.
1036
00:54:18,338 --> 00:54:21,383
One of the gunmen lies
wounded and in critical condition.
1037
00:54:21,425 --> 00:54:23,844
The man refuses all
police offers of aid,
1038
00:54:23,886 --> 00:54:25,929
and the consensus
is that if he dies
1039
00:54:25,971 --> 00:54:28,015
something, what,
nobody will speculate,
1040
00:54:28,056 --> 00:54:29,099
will happen.
1041
00:54:29,725 --> 00:54:31,268
[indistinct radio chatter]
1042
00:54:35,147 --> 00:54:36,648
Mussidiq was thirsty.
1043
00:54:36,690 --> 00:54:38,567
He kept sayin',
"Oh, give me water."
1044
00:54:38,609 --> 00:54:40,903
And Riccio said,
"Don't give him water.
1045
00:54:40,944 --> 00:54:42,070
"That's the worst thing you do
1046
00:54:42,112 --> 00:54:43,614
with a gunshot
wound to the stomach.โ
1047
00:54:45,699 --> 00:54:49,203
Then when he started
spitting up green bile fluid,
1048
00:54:49,244 --> 00:54:51,288
{\an8}that mean his bowel
had been ruptured.
1049
00:54:51,830 --> 00:54:53,999
{\an8}And then he was in and
out of consciousness.
1050
00:54:54,958 --> 00:54:56,335
W{\an8}e gotta get him outta here.
1051
00:54:57,795 --> 00:55:00,714
If they really are
attached to their comrade,
1052
00:55:00,756 --> 00:55:03,383
then they're gonna come out
to give him a chance to live.
1053
00:55:05,886 --> 00:55:08,764
That was the only
bargaining chip that we had.
1054
00:55:11,517 --> 00:55:14,436
[7]
1055
00:55:15,979 --> 00:55:18,232
The real difficult
part is waiting.
1056
00:55:23,153 --> 00:55:24,655
[Brian Tuohy] You're
just sittin' back waiting.
1057
00:55:25,113 --> 00:55:27,491
Just biding time with
nothing getting done.
1058
00:55:27,533 --> 00:55:29,451
{\an8}You feel useless.
1059
00:55:31,662 --> 00:55:34,122
{\an8}Officers think we
have to be strong.
1060
00:55:34,164 --> 00:55:35,582
Supermen.
1061
00:55:36,583 --> 00:55:38,126
You're expected to take action.
1062
00:55:39,127 --> 00:55:41,213
But sometimes, the best
thing to do is nothing at all.
1063
00:55:41,630 --> 00:55:43,090
Let emotions wind down.
1064
00:55:43,715 --> 00:55:44,925
Those are Harvey's teachings.
1065
00:55:45,801 --> 00:55:48,053
He calls it dynamic inactivity.
1066
00:55:49,429 --> 00:55:52,432
Well, doing nothing is
certainly doing something,
1067
00:55:52,474 --> 00:55:53,600
that's for sure.
1068
00:55:53,976 --> 00:55:55,978
[indistinct radio chatter]
1069
00:56:01,066 --> 00:56:03,068
{\an8}[man on radio]
1070
00:56:15,289 --> 00:56:16,999
{\an8}[Harvey Schlossberg]
Around noon time,
1071
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,167
another hostage was released
1072
00:56:19,209 --> 00:56:20,919
to trade for a doctor.
1073
00:56:22,546 --> 00:56:24,673
That's what I look
for in a hostage taker,
1074
00:56:24,715 --> 00:56:26,675
that moment of hesitation.
1075
00:56:29,219 --> 00:56:30,304
They're finished.
1076
00:56:31,054 --> 00:56:32,639
I've got them. They're mine.
1077
00:56:35,017 --> 00:56:36,393
Big breakthrough.
1078
00:56:36,435 --> 00:56:38,228
This could get
them to surrender.
1079
00:56:41,231 --> 00:56:43,483
This community doctor,
1080
00:56:43,525 --> 00:56:45,903
he was told, "You stand
a chance of being killed.
1081
00:56:47,988 --> 00:56:50,073
{\an8}I give a lot of
credit to the nurse.
1082
00:56:50,908 --> 00:56:51,909
{\an8}That came with him.
1083
00:56:52,701 --> 00:56:53,911
{\an8}She was very brave.
1084
00:56:55,412 --> 00:56:57,623
I thought she was sent
in there to distract us
1085
00:56:57,664 --> 00:56:59,249
the way she was dressed.
1086
00:56:59,708 --> 00:57:01,668
She was distracting, no doubt.
1087
00:57:01,710 --> 00:57:02,753
Whoa!
1088
00:57:03,712 --> 00:57:05,255
"Volumptuous.โ
1089
00:57:05,839 --> 00:57:08,216
We said, "Oh, no, you
can't come in here."
1090
00:57:09,176 --> 00:57:11,428
We sent her back
out to change clothes.
1091
00:57:13,305 --> 00:57:15,933
The doctor, we frisked him.
1092
00:57:16,350 --> 00:57:18,018
He didn't have any
weapons on him.
1093
00:57:19,019 --> 00:57:22,064
So then we took
him to see Mussidiq.
1094
00:57:23,899 --> 00:57:24,942
He was scared.
1095
00:57:25,943 --> 00:57:27,402
They held him at gunpoint.
1096
00:57:28,987 --> 00:57:31,573
They didn't believe that
he was truly a physician.
1097
00:57:33,700 --> 00:57:35,661
[Shu'aib Raheem] He
gave him a painkiller.
1098
00:57:35,953 --> 00:57:37,913
Hooked up a makeshift fluid rack
1099
00:57:37,955 --> 00:57:40,123
to hold the saline solution.
1100
00:57:40,165 --> 00:57:41,416
They brought the phone in.
1101
00:57:42,167 --> 00:57:43,293
A direct line.
1102
00:57:44,753 --> 00:57:47,130
We're trying to figure
out a way to end this thing.
1103
00:57:48,173 --> 00:57:50,425
[Al Baker] Getting a phone
in to any hostage taker
1104
00:57:50,467 --> 00:57:52,094
is major breakthrough.
1105
00:57:52,678 --> 00:57:54,221
Now you're
starting to negotiate.
1106
00:57:55,889 --> 00:57:57,766
[Harvey Schlossberg]
What I'm tryin' to do is
1107
00:57:57,808 --> 00:58:00,435
to find out what
this guy really needs.
1108
00:58:01,144 --> 00:58:03,605
I want you to
recognize I'm a person.
1109
00:58:03,939 --> 00:58:06,024
I need love. I need help.
1110
00:58:07,901 --> 00:58:10,946
Freud believed the solution
was inside the person.
1111
00:58:15,784 --> 00:58:17,327
Well, obviously,
1112
00:58:17,869 --> 00:58:19,997
I wanted to talk to the police.
1113
00:58:21,248 --> 00:58:23,291
Conflicted as I was.
1114
00:58:24,167 --> 00:58:25,168
Confused.
1115
00:58:26,378 --> 00:58:27,462
Angry.
1116
00:58:28,422 --> 00:58:29,881
I was looking for a way out.
1117
00:58:33,301 --> 00:58:35,345
[Jack Cambria] Harvey taught
me that anybody can speak.
1118
00:58:36,471 --> 00:58:38,765
But the real skill in being
a negotiator is listening.
1119
00:58:40,934 --> 00:58:42,686
You have to use
active listening.
1120
00:58:43,353 --> 00:58:44,521
Emotional labeling.
1121
00:58:45,397 --> 00:58:47,941
Being non-judgmental,
non-threatening.
1122
00:58:48,608 --> 00:58:51,028
And when they're yelling
and screaming and insulting,
1123
00:58:51,528 --> 00:58:54,114
not accepting that verbal
spear that was just thrown at you.
1124
00:58:55,657 --> 00:58:56,700
Deflecting it.
1125
00:58:56,992 --> 00:58:58,368
It'll land on the
wall behind you.
1126
00:58:59,119 --> 00:59:00,412
They'll be left
unarmed at this point,
1127
00:59:00,454 --> 00:59:01,621
and you'll be left uninjured.
1128
00:59:04,332 --> 00:59:06,460
It helps in every
aspect of life.
1129
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,879
I used to get my best
negotiation practice
1130
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:10,589
when my children were
in their adolescence.
1131
00:59:11,089 --> 00:59:12,424
It works at home as well.
1132
00:59:16,511 --> 00:59:18,138
[phone ringing]
1133
00:59:18,847 --> 00:59:20,849
[Shu'aib Raheem] When you pick it
up, someone answered right away.
1134
00:59:22,100 --> 00:59:24,227
His tone was very stern.
1135
00:59:25,228 --> 00:59:26,813
I said, "Well, listen,
we need some--"
1136
00:59:26,855 --> 00:59:29,816
"You'll get no assurances,
you just come out."
1137
00:59:31,026 --> 00:59:33,445
He just wanted me to walk
out there and get gunned down.
1138
00:59:34,738 --> 00:59:37,074
He was a complete...
1139
00:59:39,326 --> 00:59:40,952
Excuse my French but forgive me,
1140
00:59:40,994 --> 00:59:42,704
but there's no
other description.
1141
00:59:42,746 --> 00:59:43,789
Asshole.
1142
00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:48,543
I stopped talking and
hung the phone up.
1143
00:59:50,504 --> 00:59:51,963
We're gonna defend ourself...
1144
00:59:55,050 --> 00:59:56,093
to the end.
1145
00:59:56,134 --> 00:59:59,137
[7]
1146
01:00:19,324 --> 01:00:20,367
[Alice Buckner] It's scary.
1147
01:00:20,867 --> 01:00:22,869
You're crying, you know,
your mother's in there.
1148
01:00:22,911 --> 01:00:24,871
{\an8}and the neighbors are talkin',
1149
01:00:24,913 --> 01:00:26,665
{\an8}and people in the hallway,
1150
01:00:26,706 --> 01:00:28,250
{\an8}and people comin'
up to check on me.
1151
01:00:28,291 --> 01:00:29,626
Early this evening,
1152
01:00:29,668 --> 01:00:31,795
a third hostage was
released by the gunmen.
1153
01:00:31,837 --> 01:00:33,463
[Alice Buckner] They
kept saying on the TV
1154
01:00:33,505 --> 01:00:36,883
they have enough ammunition
to hold these people for a week,
1155
01:00:36,925 --> 01:00:39,553
and I don't know what's
happening at the store.
1156
01:00:40,387 --> 01:00:41,763
My mother's not home.
1157
01:00:43,807 --> 01:00:45,016
And she's not home.
1158
01:00:46,476 --> 01:00:49,479
[7]
1159
01:00:51,606 --> 01:00:53,567
[Dawud Rahman] I was,
like, filled with dread.
1160
01:00:55,402 --> 01:00:58,530
I was suggesting that
we try and clear up
1161
01:00:58,572 --> 01:01:01,116
{\an8}the-- the mess in
the store, you know,
1162
01:01:01,158 --> 01:01:03,034
{\an8}but, uh, that was like
1163
01:01:03,076 --> 01:01:05,954
{\an8}a naive, uh, suggestion,
you know, uh...
1164
01:01:07,914 --> 01:01:09,374
[Shu'aib Raheem]
Dawud was in shock.
1165
01:01:11,084 --> 01:01:13,336
He had never been
exposed to anything like that.
1166
01:01:14,421 --> 01:01:16,173
I can see the fear in his face.
1167
01:01:20,260 --> 01:01:23,471
I was looking at Dawud
and Salih, my friends.
1168
01:01:24,222 --> 01:01:27,976
Their lives had been
so tragically affected.
1169
01:01:29,644 --> 01:01:32,898
I was in a position to
stop it, and I didn't stop it.
1170
01:01:37,194 --> 01:01:39,404
pushed forward
and they followed.
1171
01:01:39,905 --> 01:01:42,824
Went along with it.
It's not a good feeling.
1172
01:01:42,866 --> 01:01:44,034
Miserable feeling.
1173
01:01:46,661 --> 01:01:49,581
I have basically a shy demeanor.
1174
01:01:49,623 --> 01:01:52,667
I even consider myself like a...
1175
01:01:52,709 --> 01:01:55,837
a self-diagnosed, uh,
1176
01:01:56,171 --> 01:01:59,174
Asperger's-- [chuckles]
1177
01:01:59,216 --> 01:02:01,259
You know, uh, syndrome.
1178
01:02:03,386 --> 01:02:05,222
[Shu'aib Raheem] He was
going to Brooklyn College.
1179
01:02:05,513 --> 01:02:07,432
He was a street sketcher.
1180
01:02:08,099 --> 01:02:11,019
He would sketch
people's photograph,
1181
01:02:11,061 --> 01:02:12,562
for five, ten dollars.
1182
01:02:12,604 --> 01:02:15,774
With pencil and charcoal.
1183
01:02:17,442 --> 01:02:18,735
That's how good he was.
1184
01:02:18,777 --> 01:02:21,154
He could look at you
and just... do it like that.
1185
01:02:21,196 --> 01:02:22,572
And people would
pay him for that.
1186
01:02:23,698 --> 01:02:26,952
But what was phenomenal
about him was his...
1187
01:02:29,412 --> 01:02:32,165
He could blow that horn.
Lord have mercy. Mm!
1188
01:02:32,624 --> 01:02:34,334
He would practice...
1189
01:02:34,376 --> 01:02:36,169
[call to prayer sounding]
1190
01:02:37,963 --> 01:02:40,966
[man chanting]
1191
01:02:47,514 --> 01:02:48,848
[Jerry Riccio] The quiet guy,
1192
01:02:48,890 --> 01:02:50,267
{\an8}he put himself in harm's way.
1193
01:02:51,935 --> 01:02:54,729
{\an8}He sat down next to me with
a weight right over his head
1194
01:02:55,772 --> 01:02:57,983
and I could have
easily killed him with it.
1195
01:02:58,817 --> 01:03:00,944
I nudged Cleve, I says,
1196
01:03:02,487 --> 01:03:03,947
"I'll put it right in his head."
1197
01:03:05,907 --> 01:03:07,284
He was my gun guy.
1198
01:03:08,368 --> 01:03:09,619
{\an8}Cleve was a good guy.
1199
01:03:10,412 --> 01:03:11,788
{\an8}He had a glass eye.
1200
01:03:12,414 --> 01:03:14,666
He was like a weird
look-- especially with that--
1201
01:03:15,333 --> 01:03:17,377
the glass eye, it
wasn't the best--
1202
01:03:18,003 --> 01:03:20,422
wasn't the best
job in the world.
1203
01:03:24,134 --> 01:03:25,760
I was in the service.
1204
01:03:25,802 --> 01:03:27,846
I had a machine gun squad.
1205
01:03:29,556 --> 01:03:32,976
I says, "Who do you think the
most dangerous guy in the store is?"
1206
01:03:34,269 --> 01:03:37,105
He says, "Them."
I said, "No. Me."
1207
01:03:42,235 --> 01:03:45,322
[Rosemary Catalano] I don't think that
they believed they could get out alive.
1208
01:03:46,948 --> 01:03:48,366
It was a total stalemate.
1209
01:03:49,284 --> 01:03:52,037
Botched robbery,
killed a police officer.
1210
01:03:54,205 --> 01:03:55,498
It wasn't gonna end there.
1211
01:03:56,833 --> 01:03:58,752
They weren't gonna
walk out quietly.
1212
01:04:01,129 --> 01:04:04,174
[Harvey Schlossberg] This is
intense hostage negotiation.
1213
01:04:04,799 --> 01:04:06,718
Am I gonna say the wrong thing,
1214
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,347
and the person who
is a mild problem
1215
01:04:10,388 --> 01:04:12,682
all of a sudden becomes a rage.
1216
01:04:13,850 --> 01:04:15,935
God forbid, if
somebody gets killed,
1217
01:04:15,977 --> 01:04:17,520
you're gonna blame yourself.
1218
01:04:18,688 --> 01:04:23,026
Harvey is enormously
tuned in to emotions.
1219
01:04:23,068 --> 01:04:26,404
whether they be his or the
people that are around him.
1220
01:04:27,614 --> 01:04:30,992
He's the product of a very
sensitive mother and grandmother.
1221
01:04:31,534 --> 01:04:34,579
His grandmother came
from Russia to be safe.
1222
01:04:35,205 --> 01:04:36,831
The pogroms,
1223
01:04:36,873 --> 01:04:39,834
they would surround the Jewish
communities and kill people.
1224
01:04:41,294 --> 01:04:43,963
Jews have experienced
lots of suffering
1225
01:04:44,005 --> 01:04:45,632
and psychological pain.
1226
01:04:48,051 --> 01:04:50,387
I have a need to
make people better.
1227
01:04:51,930 --> 01:04:53,932
That's a crazy need.
1228
01:04:53,973 --> 01:04:56,976
[7]
1229
01:04:59,354 --> 01:05:00,939
[Jerry Riccio] How do
you get out of the store?
1230
01:05:01,564 --> 01:05:04,275
Twelve people aren't
running down the stairs
1231
01:05:04,317 --> 01:05:05,443
and out the door.
1232
01:05:07,529 --> 01:05:09,322
I took out my pocket knife.
1233
01:05:10,657 --> 01:05:13,868
Watching them, I could
keep my arm behind the wall,
1234
01:05:15,620 --> 01:05:17,872
and draw the
line with the knife,
1235
01:05:18,415 --> 01:05:22,210
down, across, up,
down, across, up.
1236
01:05:23,795 --> 01:05:25,880
The little white dust
would fall on the floor,
1237
01:05:25,922 --> 01:05:28,007
I would smooth
it out with my foot.
1238
01:05:29,300 --> 01:05:30,385
Took a long time.
1239
01:05:31,803 --> 01:05:33,555
The people that were
sitting against the wall,
1240
01:05:33,596 --> 01:05:36,724
terrified, tears.
1241
01:05:38,059 --> 01:05:40,603
I can't tell 'em what
my intentions were.
1242
01:05:40,645 --> 01:05:43,314
I didn't want anybody
blurting out any information
1243
01:05:43,356 --> 01:05:44,732
out of fear.
1244
01:05:44,774 --> 01:05:46,818
"Let me go and I'll tell
you what they're up to.
1245
01:05:46,860 --> 01:05:49,779
He's got a gun. He cut
a hole out in the wall.โ
1246
01:05:50,738 --> 01:05:52,407
You-- You're nervous.
1247
01:05:55,702 --> 01:05:57,412
The gun is in your waist.
1248
01:05:58,496 --> 01:05:59,873
I don't know what's
gonna happen.
1249
01:06:01,416 --> 01:06:03,042
The leader comes over to me.
1250
01:06:03,084 --> 01:06:05,336
I put my hand on the gun.
I don't have to take it out,
1251
01:06:05,378 --> 01:06:07,297
I could shoot him
right through the coat.
1252
01:06:07,338 --> 01:06:10,049
I went over there and I see
some men behind the counter.
1253
01:06:10,592 --> 01:06:12,969
I said, "What the hell are you
doin'? Get your ass out of here."
1254
01:06:13,428 --> 01:06:15,513
You know, "Get your butt
back on the other side.โ
1255
01:06:15,555 --> 01:06:17,098
Riccio was one of โem,
I said, "Man, I told you--"
1256
01:06:17,140 --> 01:06:18,475
He said, "All right,
all right, all right.
1257
01:06:18,516 --> 01:06:20,435
It's not that easy
to kill anybody.
1258
01:06:21,603 --> 01:06:24,439
And people turn around and
say to you, "He's black," this, that.
1259
01:06:24,481 --> 01:06:26,149
It's not easy to kill anybody.
1260
01:06:28,359 --> 01:06:31,321
[7]
1261
01:06:31,362 --> 01:06:33,990
[Shu'aib Raheem] I
was layin' down upstairs
1262
01:06:34,032 --> 01:06:37,118
trying to figure out
how'd I get in this mess?
1263
01:06:37,952 --> 01:06:39,996
Why did I do this?
Why, why, why?
1264
01:06:41,915 --> 01:06:44,459
Takes a lot for a
man to say "I'm afraid."
1265
01:06:45,585 --> 01:06:47,128
You know how we are as men.
1266
01:06:47,170 --> 01:06:49,380
Hard enough to even
talk about feelings.
1267
01:06:51,716 --> 01:06:54,552
Fear is what drove me
every minute I was in there,
1268
01:06:54,969 --> 01:06:56,596
that I was afraid to come out.
1269
01:06:57,180 --> 01:06:59,182
Scared to death of
what might happen.
1270
01:06:59,557 --> 01:07:01,684
Fear, fear, fear,
you know, it's-- it's--
1271
01:07:02,101 --> 01:07:03,353
it's crippling.
1272
01:07:06,981 --> 01:07:08,733
A gun don't make you a man.
1273
01:07:10,026 --> 01:07:11,444
At the end of the day,
1274
01:07:11,861 --> 01:07:13,446
doesn't make you safe.
1275
01:07:16,574 --> 01:07:17,992
Don't be afraid.
1276
01:07:22,539 --> 01:07:23,957
[sniffles]
1277
01:07:25,792 --> 01:07:27,544
[Jerry Riccio] The
hostages were terrified.
1278
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,131
The black girl named
Fonnie, tears were goin',
1279
01:07:32,173 --> 01:07:33,633
shook her up so badly.
1280
01:07:34,801 --> 01:07:36,886
When I go to get one
of the walkie-talkies,
1281
01:07:36,928 --> 01:07:38,596
I'm asking for Kotex.
1282
01:07:38,638 --> 01:07:40,723
Fonnie had gotten
her period in the store.
1283
01:07:42,141 --> 01:07:45,353
[7]
1284
01:07:45,395 --> 01:07:49,566
And I really believe that that's
when she had her miscarriage
1285
01:07:49,607 --> 01:07:50,984
โcause she was pregnant.
1286
01:07:54,779 --> 01:07:58,449
That was enough to send
it over the edge as far as...
1287
01:07:59,325 --> 01:08:01,077
this baby was not making it.
1288
01:08:01,911 --> 01:08:05,999
Oh, my God! Oh, my
God! Lord have mercy.
1289
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:08,042
[muttering in Arabic]
1290
01:08:09,377 --> 01:08:11,254
I'm so sorry to hear that.
1291
01:08:11,296 --> 01:08:13,256
She had the nervous breakdown.
1292
01:08:14,882 --> 01:08:16,467
Never really came out of it.
1293
01:08:18,177 --> 01:08:19,804
Not sleeping at night.
1294
01:08:19,846 --> 01:08:22,849
Medication is rippin' up
your body on the inside.
1295
01:08:22,890 --> 01:08:24,350
You don't want to do anything.
1296
01:08:25,393 --> 01:08:28,479
And you still have a family
you need to feed and maintain.
1297
01:08:29,147 --> 01:08:31,232
I'm an only child,
just me and her.
1298
01:08:32,900 --> 01:08:35,445
My parents separated
right after this happened.
1299
01:08:43,161 --> 01:08:45,872
[Alice Buckner] I feel
like I lost both my parents.
1300
01:08:47,665 --> 01:08:49,667
[sniffling]
1301
01:08:57,675 --> 01:09:00,178
They have no idea what
they put people through.
1302
01:09:04,098 --> 01:09:07,226
People who are injured
and hurt and suffer,
1303
01:09:07,268 --> 01:09:08,686
even oppressed,
1304
01:09:10,313 --> 01:09:13,149
can become blinded
by their own hurt,
1305
01:09:13,191 --> 01:09:15,735
and destroy the lives
of so many people
1306
01:09:15,777 --> 01:09:17,320
who did you no harm.
1307
01:09:18,738 --> 01:09:20,323
That's the tragedy of it all.
1308
01:09:21,032 --> 01:09:23,785
When the victim becomes
that which they fear.
1309
01:09:29,582 --> 01:09:32,585
[7]
1310
01:09:35,380 --> 01:09:37,382
[traffic noise]
1311
01:09:37,965 --> 01:09:39,967
[clock ticking]
1312
01:09:43,930 --> 01:09:45,932
-[gunshot]
-[indistinct dialog]
1313
01:09:46,599 --> 01:09:48,017
[gunshot]
1314
01:09:49,686 --> 01:09:52,313
[indistinct chatter]
1315
01:09:53,106 --> 01:09:54,816
[gunshot]
1316
01:09:54,857 --> 01:09:56,859
[police radio chatter]
1317
01:09:57,568 --> 01:09:58,986
[gunshot]
1318
01:09:59,362 --> 01:10:01,364
[indistinct chatter]
1319
01:10:04,784 --> 01:10:06,452
[Brian Tuohy] Four
blasts of gunfire.
1320
01:10:06,494 --> 01:10:08,079
Maybe they killed the hostages.
1321
01:10:08,121 --> 01:10:10,164
-[coughing]
-Where's your plan?
1322
01:10:10,206 --> 01:10:12,458
What plan do you have now
that they're killing the hostages?
1323
01:10:14,711 --> 01:10:16,003
If I was the commanding officer,
1324
01:10:16,045 --> 01:10:17,672
I would have taken
action against them.
1325
01:10:18,297 --> 01:10:19,632
Probably with snipers.
1326
01:10:23,010 --> 01:10:24,971
If you don't fight fire with
fire, you're never gonna win.
1327
01:10:25,930 --> 01:10:28,933
[7]
1328
01:10:28,975 --> 01:10:30,977
[gunshot]
1329
01:10:32,979 --> 01:10:35,523
Just move one finger,
just move a pinkie,
1330
01:10:35,898 --> 01:10:37,942
just give me a
reason to kill you,
1331
01:10:37,984 --> 01:10:40,236
and I will do it gladly.
1332
01:10:42,238 --> 01:10:44,866
We go back to the coffee
table and laugh about it.
1333
01:10:44,907 --> 01:10:48,661
"We killed a guy. Yeah,
Yeah, it had a happy ending.
1334
01:10:48,953 --> 01:10:50,872
And you ended up
dead. So, ha, ha."
1335
01:10:52,957 --> 01:10:54,625
[reporter] The situation
here in Brooklyn
1336
01:10:54,667 --> 01:10:57,587
has gotten much more
tense in the last few moments.
1337
01:10:57,628 --> 01:10:59,964
-[gunshot]
- We heard five or six shots
1338
01:11:00,006 --> 01:11:01,924
ring out from the
sporting goods store.
1339
01:11:01,966 --> 01:11:03,968
[police radio chatter]
1340
01:11:04,469 --> 01:11:07,472
[7]
1341
01:11:16,564 --> 01:11:18,441
[man on radio] Where
are the hostages now?
1342
01:11:20,443 --> 01:11:22,487
The railing that
went around the store
1343
01:11:22,528 --> 01:11:23,738
on the second floor,
1344
01:11:24,030 --> 01:11:26,073
they had all the guns lined up.
1345
01:11:26,115 --> 01:11:29,535
They loaded them all so
that if anybody came in,
1346
01:11:30,077 --> 01:11:31,954
they wouldn't have
to stop to re-load.
1347
01:11:34,540 --> 01:11:37,335
Now the gunmen come
upstairs, they brought the hose up,
1348
01:11:38,044 --> 01:11:40,546
He says, "Take off your
clothes, we're gonna wash you.
1349
01:11:41,964 --> 01:11:44,842
We're gonna die, you
gotta go to Allah clean.โ
1350
01:11:47,595 --> 01:11:49,347
Maybe they were gonna kill me.
1351
01:11:50,223 --> 01:11:52,725
Maybe the cops shooting in
the store were gonna kill me.
1352
01:11:54,811 --> 01:11:57,230
They don't look at the
shape over the desk.
1353
01:11:57,730 --> 01:11:59,440
That's a staircase going up.
1354
01:12:00,483 --> 01:12:02,693
If you put a knife
against a sheet rock wall,
1355
01:12:02,735 --> 01:12:04,111
it doesn't make any noise.
1356
01:12:04,821 --> 01:12:06,906
I felt the knife go through.
1357
01:12:08,449 --> 01:12:10,034
And then I pulled
the piece out...
1358
01:12:11,953 --> 01:12:13,079
and put it back in.
1359
01:12:14,288 --> 01:12:16,290
We have the escape plan made.
1360
01:12:16,332 --> 01:12:18,334
[indistinct chatter]
1361
01:12:19,043 --> 01:12:20,920
-[man] Whoever's gonna begin--
-All right, I'm gonna begin it,
1362
01:12:20,962 --> 01:12:23,005
{\an8}but I cant begin it because
I'm being squeezed.
1363
01:12:23,047 --> 01:12:24,507
{\an8}-Give me a little room.
-[man] Move back, please.
1364
01:12:24,841 --> 01:12:26,968
Help out a little bit, will
ya? Back up. Come on.
1365
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:29,053
-Give us a little room.
-[man 2] All right.
1366
01:12:29,095 --> 01:12:30,346
[Benjamin Ward] This
morning, as you know,
1367
01:12:30,388 --> 01:12:32,014
there were several
gunshots fired,
1368
01:12:32,056 --> 01:12:34,141
and they informed us that they
merely wanted to let us to know
1369
01:12:34,183 --> 01:12:35,768
that they were still there.
1370
01:12:35,810 --> 01:12:37,311
We immediately spoke to them
on the phone and we told them
1371
01:12:37,353 --> 01:12:38,354
we knew that they were there.
1372
01:12:39,397 --> 01:12:42,567
[man] Have you made any
decision as to a time limit?
1373
01:12:42,608 --> 01:12:45,528
I-- I could just say this to
you, we have plenty of time,
1374
01:12:45,570 --> 01:12:47,822
and we have not made
any decisions on time.
1375
01:12:47,864 --> 01:12:49,866
[indistinct chatter]
1376
01:12:51,534 --> 01:12:54,495
[Al Baker] The Harvey
school of psychology is
1377
01:12:54,912 --> 01:12:57,874
you're lookin' to find that
key that opens that lock.
1378
01:12:57,915 --> 01:12:59,250
to that guy's head.
1379
01:12:59,876 --> 01:13:01,878
[indistinct bullhorn
announcement]
1380
01:13:09,343 --> 01:13:10,887
My mother?
1381
01:13:11,429 --> 01:13:13,431
[continues indistinctly]
1382
01:13:18,185 --> 01:13:22,481
"Son, Ib'n, salaam
alaikum, baby, come out.
1383
01:13:22,940 --> 01:13:25,026
It's gonna be okay,
they're not gonna hurt you."
1384
01:13:26,277 --> 01:13:28,279
[Gloria Robinson
continues indistinctly]
1385
01:13:29,196 --> 01:13:31,407
[Harvey Schlossberg]
Family. I usually tell--
1386
01:13:31,449 --> 01:13:32,575
I-- Don't bring them in.
1387
01:13:33,159 --> 01:13:35,202
If they had a healthy family,
1388
01:13:35,244 --> 01:13:36,704
they wouldn't be in here.
1389
01:13:40,333 --> 01:13:42,001
[Shu'aib Raheem] I used to have
conversations with my mother that
1390
01:13:42,043 --> 01:13:43,085
that was, like, deep.
1391
01:13:43,127 --> 01:13:45,421
She would be up
all night reading.
1392
01:13:45,463 --> 01:13:48,090
History, science, philosophy.
1393
01:13:50,176 --> 01:13:52,470
She was like a
mentor, a teacher.
1394
01:13:54,180 --> 01:13:55,681
She was fragile.
1395
01:13:56,474 --> 01:13:58,017
She was an alcoholic.
1396
01:13:58,434 --> 01:14:01,020
And I used to get very
defensive and angry with her
1397
01:14:01,062 --> 01:14:03,147
when she was criticizing me.
1398
01:14:03,189 --> 01:14:04,649
I thought she was naive.
1399
01:14:04,690 --> 01:14:07,068
They were just trying to use
her to get me to come out.
1400
01:14:08,694 --> 01:14:09,779
To get shot.
1401
01:14:12,782 --> 01:14:15,159
When I fired the shots
at the tank, she knew.
1402
01:14:15,201 --> 01:14:17,286
She didn't try to
talk to me anymore.
1403
01:14:25,586 --> 01:14:28,547
She was so-- I broke her
heart, Lord have mercy.
1404
01:14:29,757 --> 01:14:32,760
[7]
1405
01:14:33,844 --> 01:14:36,389
We started hearing
them-- [buzzing]
1406
01:14:36,430 --> 01:14:38,307
They comin' through
the wall in the basement
1407
01:14:38,349 --> 01:14:40,393
while they talking
1408
01:14:40,434 --> 01:14:42,103
so nice on the phone.
1409
01:14:43,521 --> 01:14:46,190
The radio told us that
the police was on the roof.
1410
01:14:46,732 --> 01:14:48,401
The place was surrounded.
1411
01:14:49,318 --> 01:14:51,195
We heard this big helicopter.
1412
01:14:53,572 --> 01:14:55,199
Hundreds of police.
1413
01:14:55,241 --> 01:14:57,660
They got this special
team they put together,
1414
01:14:57,702 --> 01:14:59,495
they gettin' ready to come
in and storm the store,
1415
01:14:59,537 --> 01:15:01,789
and you givin' me these
niceties over the phone?
1416
01:15:02,164 --> 01:15:03,416
I i 3 an
1417
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:09,755
[indistinct chatter]
1418
01:15:09,797 --> 01:15:11,632
[man on bullhorn] They say that
they are gonna die in that building
1419
01:15:11,674 --> 01:15:13,217
and they want us to
come in and get them.
1420
01:15:13,968 --> 01:15:16,971
[7]
1421
01:15:19,515 --> 01:15:21,726
[Al Baker] The perps
certainly had evil intent.
1422
01:15:23,227 --> 01:15:25,771
Violence. Hate.
1423
01:15:26,731 --> 01:15:28,024
Kill the hostages.
1424
01:15:29,358 --> 01:15:31,152
Go out in a blaze of glory.
1425
01:15:31,902 --> 01:15:34,030
We didn't want to go
out in a blaze of glory.
1426
01:15:34,989 --> 01:15:36,699
But, hell, if you're
gonna execute me...
1427
01:15:38,576 --> 01:15:39,910
and I got all
these guns in here,
1428
01:15:39,952 --> 01:15:41,328
what do you think I'm gonna do?
1429
01:15:42,371 --> 01:15:43,914
I'm gonna defend myself.
1430
01:15:49,003 --> 01:15:50,504
[whistle]
1431
01:15:50,546 --> 01:15:51,922
[Jerry Riccio] All of a sudden,
1432
01:15:51,964 --> 01:15:54,300
I heard what appeared
to be a whistle.
1433
01:15:54,717 --> 01:15:56,260
[whistle]
1434
01:15:59,221 --> 01:16:00,806
This is it, they're
gettin' ready to come in.
1435
01:16:00,848 --> 01:16:02,975
This is it. We just kept
sayin', "This is it, this is it."
1436
01:16:07,521 --> 01:16:11,067
We went downstairs,
listened to the basement door.
1437
01:16:12,109 --> 01:16:14,153
[Jerry Riccio] They
all ran down the stairs,
1438
01:16:14,195 --> 01:16:15,654
left us alone.
1439
01:16:16,947 --> 01:16:19,867
Well... that's the
chance you gotta take.
1440
01:16:22,369 --> 01:16:23,954
I gave Cleve my gun.
1441
01:16:25,372 --> 01:16:27,666
I told him everybody
had to go through the hole.
1442
01:16:29,335 --> 01:16:31,837
[Alice Buckner] My
mom was cryin', bad.
1443
01:16:32,129 --> 01:16:34,090
Cleve took one
look at her and said,
1444
01:16:34,131 --> 01:16:36,592
"If I don't help her,
she's gonna get us killed."
1445
01:16:38,010 --> 01:16:40,179
Pull yourself together,
get your tissue,
1446
01:16:40,805 --> 01:16:42,223
stop cryin',
1447
01:16:42,723 --> 01:16:45,392
and let's go so we
can get out of here.
1448
01:16:48,187 --> 01:16:49,939
[Rosemary Catalano]
The adrenaline's pumpin'.
1449
01:16:49,980 --> 01:16:51,065
Just go.
1450
01:16:51,690 --> 01:16:54,068
There's debris on the stairs,
1451
01:16:54,110 --> 01:16:55,861
and Jerry says to Cleve,
1452
01:16:55,903 --> 01:16:58,155
"I told you to clean
the staircase.โ
1453
01:16:58,197 --> 01:17:00,199
[laughing]
1454
01:17:03,077 --> 01:17:04,954
[Jerry Riccio] Everybody
had to go through the hole.
1455
01:17:04,995 --> 01:17:07,248
"Okay, Cleve.
Hold onto the gun.โ
1456
01:17:09,542 --> 01:17:12,044
[Al Baker] We have people on the
roof to help contain the perimeter.
1457
01:17:13,337 --> 01:17:17,174
We had the Smith & Wesson
Model 76 submachine gun.
1458
01:17:18,509 --> 01:17:21,470
If the perps come out
blasting at the cops,
1459
01:17:22,346 --> 01:17:23,973
you're gonna
have to return fire.
1460
01:17:26,058 --> 01:17:29,228
Hatch opens up, out comes
a Black man with a gun,
1461
01:17:29,687 --> 01:17:32,523
and Casey and the team
point their guns at him.
1462
01:17:34,942 --> 01:17:37,945
[7]
1463
01:17:38,654 --> 01:17:40,447
Cleve's holding my handgun.
1464
01:17:40,739 --> 01:17:42,616
"There's a handgun comin' up.
1465
01:17:42,950 --> 01:17:45,578
It's mine, I got a permit
for it. Don't shoot!"
1466
01:17:46,203 --> 01:17:49,915
Harvey taught it's important
for the police officers
1467
01:17:49,957 --> 01:17:52,168
to hold back and not fire,
1468
01:17:52,543 --> 01:17:55,588
because once one officer fires,
1469
01:17:55,629 --> 01:17:57,506
it's really a domino effect.
1470
01:17:58,632 --> 01:18:01,969
Hormones such as
testosterone kick into play
1471
01:18:02,261 --> 01:18:04,471
and push men to do things.
1472
01:18:04,805 --> 01:18:06,015
What a disaster.
1473
01:18:07,933 --> 01:18:11,979
Holding your fire is
what negotiation is about.
1474
01:18:14,356 --> 01:18:17,860
Now, why that particular guy
1475
01:18:17,902 --> 01:18:20,237
popped open the hatch
with a gun in his hand...
1476
01:18:22,114 --> 01:18:23,616
defies my logic.
1477
01:18:24,617 --> 01:18:26,994
And it turns out, he was
an escaping hostage.
1478
01:18:27,036 --> 01:18:28,913
Police were able
to understand that.
1479
01:18:29,830 --> 01:18:31,749
Damn good weapons restraint.
1480
01:18:32,458 --> 01:18:34,919
A very remarkable escape.
1481
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:37,963
[7]
1482
01:18:50,267 --> 01:18:53,270
[7]
1483
01:18:54,396 --> 01:18:57,149
We're done. We're finished.
We're not hostages anymore.
1484
01:18:57,691 --> 01:19:00,694
[7]
1485
01:19:04,073 --> 01:19:07,326
[reporter] Officers ran the
hostages to cars outside...
1486
01:19:07,368 --> 01:19:10,454
There I am. Oh, my gosh.
1487
01:19:10,496 --> 01:19:12,623
[reporter] The hostages
broke through the wall
1488
01:19:12,665 --> 01:19:14,500
-and raced to the roof of the store.
-Oh, my God.
1489
01:19:14,541 --> 01:19:16,710
The police then
got them off the roof,
1490
01:19:16,752 --> 01:19:18,420
and finally took them away.
1491
01:19:23,842 --> 01:19:25,135
Wow.
1492
01:19:30,557 --> 01:19:32,101
[clock ticking]
1493
01:19:32,142 --> 01:19:34,144
[Shu'aib Raheem] I walked
over there and it was quiet.
1494
01:19:35,354 --> 01:19:37,856
I walked a little further
and I seen this hole,
1495
01:19:37,898 --> 01:19:39,191
and I said, "Oh, sh--"
1496
01:19:39,525 --> 01:19:40,609
Whoo!
1497
01:19:43,612 --> 01:19:45,656
[Al Baker] The suspects
lost their collateral.
1498
01:19:46,699 --> 01:19:49,159
That must have been
when they realized,
1499
01:19:49,201 --> 01:19:51,161
"We're mince meat
now. We're dead.โ
1500
01:19:55,499 --> 01:19:58,627
I guess it's all over
now, you know?
1501
01:20:01,547 --> 01:20:04,717
Seeing a corpse,
I feel like crying.
1502
01:20:05,509 --> 01:20:07,011
It really affects me.
1503
01:20:07,303 --> 01:20:10,222
I think a human life
is such a precious gift.
1504
01:20:10,931 --> 01:20:13,225
You seen where the guy was?
1505
01:20:13,559 --> 01:20:15,477
[Harvey Schlossberg] The
crowd, they become angry.
1506
01:20:15,519 --> 01:20:16,895
Don't give me all that bullshit.
1507
01:20:16,937 --> 01:20:18,689
[Harvey Schlossberg]
"Stay out. Don't kill them."
1508
01:20:19,523 --> 01:20:21,567
The crowd got out of hand.
1509
01:20:21,942 --> 01:20:24,945
[7]
1510
01:20:30,409 --> 01:20:31,702
[reporter] An ugly scene
1511
01:20:31,744 --> 01:20:33,787
in which police are
just trying their best
1512
01:20:33,829 --> 01:20:36,790
to keep them out of the area
that they have barricaded off.
1513
01:20:36,832 --> 01:20:38,208
In the meantime,
1514
01:20:38,250 --> 01:20:41,337
we have got all kinds
of missiles being thrown.
1515
01:20:41,378 --> 01:20:43,714
Probably even bricks
but definitely glass
1516
01:20:43,756 --> 01:20:45,674
as hundreds of
people are running
1517
01:20:45,716 --> 01:20:47,217
in every which direction.
1518
01:20:48,552 --> 01:20:50,637
[Al Sheppard] Molotov
cocktails, bricks,
1519
01:20:50,679 --> 01:20:52,556
they pushed the barricades over.
1520
01:20:52,598 --> 01:20:53,849
The shit's hittin' the fan.
1521
01:20:54,683 --> 01:20:56,435
You might have a
massacre on your hands.
1522
01:20:59,396 --> 01:21:01,023
America's built on violence.
1523
01:21:01,732 --> 01:21:02,775
And guns.
1524
01:21:03,567 --> 01:21:05,194
That's-- That's our nature.
1525
01:21:05,527 --> 01:21:08,989
John Wayne, Hopalong
Cassidy, uh, cowboys and Indians.
1526
01:21:09,031 --> 01:21:11,283
It's always-- You know,
we're a violent country.
1527
01:21:13,327 --> 01:21:15,162
And we were built on violence.
1528
01:21:16,246 --> 01:21:17,289
And it's unfortunate.
1529
01:21:18,624 --> 01:21:20,584
[indistinct chatter]
1530
01:21:22,711 --> 01:21:25,589
[reporter] As we look
around, police are massing,
1531
01:21:25,631 --> 01:21:28,675
and some kind of move
against the sporting goods store
1532
01:21:28,717 --> 01:21:30,469
seems to be upcoming.
1533
01:21:30,928 --> 01:21:33,430
[indistinct chatter]
1534
01:21:33,472 --> 01:21:36,350
[man on bullhorn] The gunmen
stated they are gonna die in that building
1535
01:21:36,392 --> 01:21:38,060
and they want us to
come in and get them.
1536
01:21:39,603 --> 01:21:42,231
[Shu'aib Raheem] At the
darkest moment of my life,
1537
01:21:42,648 --> 01:21:46,485
I had went so far out of
bounds of right and wrong
1538
01:21:48,237 --> 01:21:50,864
that I didn't see no
way back for me.
1539
01:21:53,575 --> 01:21:55,828
[Harvey Schlossberg] People
think in a train of thought.
1540
01:21:56,161 --> 01:21:59,331
One thought pulls the next
thought pulls the next thought.
1541
01:22:00,499 --> 01:22:02,543
I'm the thought interrupter.
1542
01:22:04,837 --> 01:22:07,714
I told the commanders,
"No. I'm not the person
1543
01:22:07,756 --> 01:22:10,092
that kills other people.
I want them out alive.โ
1544
01:22:11,385 --> 01:22:12,970
Hold your fire.
1545
01:22:15,597 --> 01:22:17,266
It was just us in there.
1546
01:22:17,307 --> 01:22:19,393
And still they didn't
storm the store.
1547
01:22:21,687 --> 01:22:24,648
[Al Baker] Even though we
all bleed blue for poor Steve,
1548
01:22:25,315 --> 01:22:28,444
let's use our minds, let's
use our hearts and souls
1549
01:22:28,485 --> 01:22:29,987
and let's fix this problem
1550
01:22:30,028 --> 01:22:32,156
before it gets to
the violent stage.
1551
01:22:33,615 --> 01:22:35,451
It's an internal strength,
1552
01:22:35,492 --> 01:22:39,746
the opposite of the
external, explosive strength.
1553
01:22:41,165 --> 01:22:42,958
That's true manhood.
1554
01:22:45,210 --> 01:22:47,588
Violence is a weakness.
1555
01:22:50,257 --> 01:22:52,092
[Shu'aib Raheem] "Please,
reconnect the phone.โ
1556
01:22:52,759 --> 01:22:54,970
So Salih reconnected
it, and I said,
1557
01:22:55,012 --> 01:22:57,473
"Well, okay. Let's talk.โ
1558
01:23:00,142 --> 01:23:02,769
Benjamin Ward was more calm.
1559
01:23:02,811 --> 01:23:06,607
He was Black, he understood
our fears of the police.
1560
01:23:06,648 --> 01:23:08,192
Hey! Back!
1561
01:23:08,233 --> 01:23:09,860
Hey! Come on!
1562
01:23:13,405 --> 01:23:14,990
[Shu'aib Raheem] We
also got that assurance
1563
01:23:15,032 --> 01:23:16,950
that they wouldn't
try to beat us to death,
1564
01:23:18,243 --> 01:23:21,705
exact this retribution
which they were known for.
1565
01:23:22,623 --> 01:23:24,917
We then spent a couple of hours
1566
01:23:24,958 --> 01:23:27,711
in just dialog on the telephone
1567
01:23:27,753 --> 01:23:30,088
to peck away at their philosophy
1568
01:23:30,130 --> 01:23:31,924
that the way to paradise
1569
01:23:31,965 --> 01:23:33,800
was to die inside
of that building.
1570
01:23:33,842 --> 01:23:36,470
And make them see if
they had a story to tell,
1571
01:23:36,762 --> 01:23:38,889
if there was a message to
come out of what they did,
1572
01:23:38,931 --> 01:23:40,682
that they would
have to remain alive.
1573
01:23:42,351 --> 01:23:44,228
[indistinct radio transission]
1574
01:23:44,853 --> 01:23:46,480
They may want to commit suicide
1575
01:23:46,522 --> 01:23:48,815
and get the police
officer to do it for them.
1576
01:23:50,859 --> 01:23:54,321
The surrender ritual
is the most critical part.
1577
01:23:55,739 --> 01:23:58,450
Nobody really knows what
the next move is gonna be.
1578
01:23:59,284 --> 01:24:01,286
[indistinct chatter]
1579
01:24:02,454 --> 01:24:05,457
[7]
1580
01:24:07,501 --> 01:24:09,461
[Shu'aib Raheem] They
wanted me and nobody else...
1581
01:24:10,379 --> 01:24:12,422
to lay down my weapons
1582
01:24:13,507 --> 01:24:15,217
Walking out there
literally exposed.
1583
01:24:15,259 --> 01:24:17,261
[police radio chatter]
1584
01:24:18,929 --> 01:24:20,138
I had to trust them.
1585
01:24:20,681 --> 01:24:22,599
[man]
1586
01:24:22,641 --> 01:24:25,519
{\an8}Benjamin Ward
actually walked down
1587
01:24:25,561 --> 01:24:27,229
{\an8}and stood in front of the store.
1588
01:24:28,397 --> 01:24:30,691
Held his hands out and
showed that he was unarmed.
1589
01:24:33,193 --> 01:24:34,820
[man]
1590
01:24:40,492 --> 01:24:42,077
{\an8}[Shu'aib Raheem] I
surrendered to him.
1591
01:24:45,706 --> 01:24:46,790
{\an8}It was over.
1592
01:24:56,633 --> 01:24:59,803
[Gerald Lefcourt] Once the terrible
shooting of the police officers occured,
1593
01:25:00,262 --> 01:25:02,347
the leadership in
the police department
1594
01:25:02,389 --> 01:25:03,765
did all the right things.
1595
01:25:04,474 --> 01:25:06,310
Negotiations...
1596
01:25:06,351 --> 01:25:07,894
rather than force.
1597
01:25:09,855 --> 01:25:11,815
We realized these guys
didn't want to be there.
1598
01:25:11,857 --> 01:25:13,483
They got caught in a robbery,
1599
01:25:13,525 --> 01:25:15,027
and they were forced back,
1600
01:25:15,068 --> 01:25:17,863
and they were forced
into a hostage situation.
1601
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:22,117
What experience
have they ever had
1602
01:25:22,159 --> 01:25:23,577
with the police?
1603
01:25:23,619 --> 01:25:25,621
It's all been
negative. You know.
1604
01:25:25,662 --> 01:25:28,248
All of their brethren have
either been arrested or beat up
1605
01:25:28,290 --> 01:25:30,125
or mistreated or abused.
1606
01:25:30,751 --> 01:25:34,963
Uh, you know, cops
aren't known historically
1607
01:25:35,297 --> 01:25:37,799
for being the most
kindest, gentlest people.
1608
01:25:38,634 --> 01:25:43,013
It was revolutionary to
diffuse a deadly situation.
1609
01:25:43,055 --> 01:25:46,099
That's now your
responsibility as a cop.
1610
01:25:48,143 --> 01:25:50,896
We started to
transcend street justice.
1611
01:25:51,229 --> 01:25:52,481
[reporter] Were you
one of the hostages?
1612
01:25:53,190 --> 01:25:55,275
Sir, can you tell us what
it was like inside there?
1613
01:25:55,984 --> 01:25:57,736
Can you say anything? Was
your life threatened at all?
1614
01:25:57,778 --> 01:25:59,780
[indistinct yelling]
1615
01:26:00,238 --> 01:26:03,241
[7]
1616
01:26:05,077 --> 01:26:07,079
[camera shutters clicking]
1617
01:26:14,211 --> 01:26:17,130
It's a Muslim name.
I can't pronounce it.
1618
01:26:17,172 --> 01:26:18,924
[laughter]
1619
01:26:18,965 --> 01:26:20,258
Shu'aib Abdul Rhaheem.
1620
01:26:20,300 --> 01:26:22,386
Alias, Shu'aib Abdul Al Raheem.
1621
01:26:22,803 --> 01:26:24,888
[indistinct dialog]
1622
01:26:24,930 --> 01:26:26,264
[detective] Attempted
murder, robbery.
1623
01:26:28,809 --> 01:26:31,812
[7]
1624
01:26:31,853 --> 01:26:34,147
[Shu'aib Raheem] First one
in my family to go to prison.
1625
01:26:36,441 --> 01:26:37,943
I hurt my family.
1626
01:26:37,984 --> 01:26:40,987
[7]
1627
01:26:44,950 --> 01:26:46,868
[Jerry Riccio] The quiet
guy didn't do anything
1628
01:26:46,910 --> 01:26:48,745
to make himself
look like a bad guy.
1629
01:26:49,287 --> 01:26:53,166
Putting him in prison
with hardcore bad guys
1630
01:26:53,625 --> 01:26:54,835
would have been the wrong thing.
1631
01:26:55,460 --> 01:26:56,712
[interviewer]
He's still in prison.
1632
01:26:58,296 --> 01:26:59,673
Maximum security.
1633
01:27:00,465 --> 01:27:01,842
Oh...
1634
01:27:09,141 --> 01:27:10,851
You're sure, right? Right?
1635
01:27:12,519 --> 01:27:13,603
Whew.
1636
01:27:14,688 --> 01:27:17,399
The last guy in the world
I'd think maximum security.
1637
01:27:19,359 --> 01:27:21,737
{\an8}I'm trying to put all
of this behind me.
1638
01:27:21,778 --> 01:27:23,989
{\an8}Because like, uh,
1639
01:27:24,656 --> 01:27:25,949
{\an8}I regret it all.
1640
01:27:27,868 --> 01:27:30,454
The fact that I
participated in this incident
1641
01:27:30,495 --> 01:27:32,664
you know, it-- I
had to pay for it.
1642
01:27:33,874 --> 01:27:36,626
Forty-six years, I feel
like I've done my time.
1643
01:27:40,213 --> 01:27:43,925
I would like to be
able to, you know,
1644
01:27:44,509 --> 01:27:47,554
have, uh, some
type of life after this.
1645
01:27:48,388 --> 01:27:51,850
He wasn't a bad
guy. I don't think,
1646
01:27:52,225 --> 01:27:54,060
other than that little
guy that got shot,
1647
01:27:54,102 --> 01:27:56,521
I don't think any
of โem were bad.
1648
01:28:01,067 --> 01:28:04,029
[Shu'aib Raheem] In prison, you
come face to face with your demons.
1649
01:28:05,739 --> 01:28:09,451
People would suddenly become
very religious and spiritual.
1650
01:28:09,493 --> 01:28:12,370
What's driving them is their
sense of shame and guilt.
1651
01:28:13,955 --> 01:28:15,999
Their quest for forgiveness.
1652
01:28:17,209 --> 01:28:19,252
The ministers say,
"God forgive you."
1653
01:28:19,669 --> 01:28:21,338
It's not quite that simple.
1654
01:28:22,380 --> 01:28:26,218
You gotta walk back
through every bad decision,
1655
01:28:26,259 --> 01:28:27,928
every person you hurt.
1656
01:28:30,972 --> 01:28:34,267
Riccio didn't deserve me
putting a gun in his face.
1657
01:28:34,309 --> 01:28:36,812
My religion forbids that.
1658
01:28:36,853 --> 01:28:39,356
Police officers out
there doin' they job,
1659
01:28:39,397 --> 01:28:42,734
to even fire a weapon in
that direction was wrong.
1660
01:28:45,028 --> 01:28:48,031
Your sins. Face them.
1661
01:28:48,782 --> 01:28:50,700
It repulses you.
1662
01:28:50,742 --> 01:28:52,285
And until it repulses you,
1663
01:28:52,327 --> 01:28:54,371
you haven't really
confronted it.
1664
01:28:56,081 --> 01:28:58,959
I got a master's degree from
New York Theological Seminary
1665
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:00,836
in Pastoral Counseling,
1666
01:29:00,877 --> 01:29:04,089
so I have the training being
the chaplain's aides in prisons.
1667
01:29:07,425 --> 01:29:09,219
For over 35 years,
1668
01:29:09,261 --> 01:29:12,013
we were like the mediators,
we created the peace.
1669
01:29:13,765 --> 01:29:17,561
It-- It's-- It's very, um, uh...
1670
01:29:18,728 --> 01:29:20,105
meaningful.
1671
01:29:20,480 --> 01:29:23,650
It's very important
that he has come to
1672
01:29:23,692 --> 01:29:25,318
this level of understanding.
1673
01:29:29,114 --> 01:29:30,448
Should he be forgiven?
1674
01:29:30,866 --> 01:29:32,284
By God?
1675
01:29:33,410 --> 01:29:35,287
Yeah. He should be.
1676
01:29:36,204 --> 01:29:37,539
He should be forgiven.
1677
01:29:42,294 --> 01:29:45,881
It's not up to me to decide
whether he gets forgiven or not.
1678
01:29:47,132 --> 01:29:48,174
I don't forgive him.
1679
01:29:50,886 --> 01:29:53,054
Killing a cop is unforgivable.
1680
01:29:55,056 --> 01:29:58,894
That-- I-- I firmly believe
that he should have been
1681
01:29:58,935 --> 01:30:01,646
tried and convicted of
Steve Gilroy's murder
1682
01:30:01,688 --> 01:30:03,148
and he should have
been put to death.
1683
01:30:05,525 --> 01:30:08,111
I made a vow and a promise
that when I come home,
1684
01:30:08,153 --> 01:30:10,697
I'm gonna tackle this
prison industrial complex
1685
01:30:10,739 --> 01:30:12,782
by trying to stem the
tide of young people
1686
01:30:12,824 --> 01:30:13,909
even going to prison.
1687
01:30:14,951 --> 01:30:18,246
{\an8}The children in this area
are suffering from PTSD
1688
01:30:18,288 --> 01:30:20,373
because of the violence.
1689
01:30:21,041 --> 01:30:24,127
You don't have to become
that which was done to you.
1690
01:30:24,961 --> 01:30:27,964
[7]
1691
01:30:30,091 --> 01:30:31,259
[Jack Cambria] The police
department, in general
1692
01:30:31,301 --> 01:30:32,552
{\an8}doesn't know who he is.
1693
01:30:32,594 --> 01:30:34,137
The general public
doesn't know who he is.
1694
01:30:35,555 --> 01:30:36,932
But, very slowly,
1695
01:30:36,973 --> 01:30:38,600
police culture
started to change.
1696
01:30:39,476 --> 01:30:42,187
The NYPD is the birthplace.
1697
01:30:42,228 --> 01:30:44,439
Today, almost every
police agency in the world
1698
01:30:44,481 --> 01:30:47,108
has a version of a
hostage negotiation team.
1699
01:30:47,150 --> 01:30:49,194
[man] I want to get
you the help you need...
1700
01:30:49,235 --> 01:30:51,821
[Jack Cambria] That's all the
foundation that Harvey put in place.
1701
01:30:52,364 --> 01:30:54,783
As long as it takes for
them to say, "lI had enough.โ
1702
01:30:54,824 --> 01:30:57,118
[Shu'aib Raheem] I don't
know Mr. Harvey Schlossberg
1703
01:30:57,160 --> 01:30:59,037
but he saved my life.
1704
01:30:59,329 --> 01:31:01,373
my co-defendant's life,
1705
01:31:02,123 --> 01:31:03,959
and all the people in the store.
1706
01:31:05,377 --> 01:31:06,962
[Harvey Schlossberg]
People do change.
1707
01:31:08,463 --> 01:31:10,924
Human life, sacred.
1708
01:31:12,008 --> 01:31:13,134
It really is.
1709
01:31:30,151 --> 01:31:33,154
[7]
1710
01:32:28,251 --> 01:32:31,254
[7]
1711
01:33:04,162 --> 01:33:07,165
[7]
1712
01:33:14,672 --> 01:33:17,592
{\an8}To have listeners again
1713
01:33:18,009 --> 01:33:19,302
{\an8}that feels good.
1714
01:33:19,344 --> 01:33:22,347
[7]
1715
01:33:33,858 --> 01:33:36,861
[7]
120160
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