All language subtitles for Hold Your Fire 2021 1080p Blu-ray Remux AVC FLAC 5.1 - HRSR.mkv

af Afrikaans
ak Akan
sq Albanian
am Amharic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bem Bemba
bn Bengali
bh Bihari
bs Bosnian
br Breton
bg Bulgarian
km Cambodian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
chr Cherokee
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
en English
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
ee Ewe
fo Faroese
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gaa Ga
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
gn Guarani
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ia Interlingua
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
rw Kinyarwanda
rn Kirundi
kg Kongo
ko Korean
kri Krio (Sierra Leone)
ku Kurdish
ckb Kurdish (Soranรฎ)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Laothian
la Latin
lv Latvian
ln Lingala
lt Lithuanian
loz Lozi
lg Luganda
ach Luo
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mfe Mauritian Creole
mo Moldavian
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
sr-ME Montenegrin
ne Nepali
pcm Nigerian Pidgin
nso Northern Sotho
no Norwegian
nn Norwegian (Nynorsk)
oc Occitan
or Oriya
om Oromo
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt-BR Portuguese (Brazil) Download
pt Portuguese (Portugal) Download
pa Punjabi
qu Quechua
rm Romansh
nyn Runyakitara
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
sh Serbo-Croatian
st Sesotho
tn Setswana
crs Seychellois Creole
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhalese
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es-419 Spanish (Latin American)
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
tt Tatar
te Telugu
th Thai
ti Tigrinya
to Tonga
lua Tshiluba
tum Tumbuka
tr Turkish
tk Turkmen
tw Twi
ug Uighur
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
wo Wolof
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,001 --> 00:00:02,961 [projector clicking] 2 00:00:03,003 --> 00:00:06,006 [7] 3 00:00:29,863 --> 00:00:32,866 [7] 4 00:00:40,832 --> 00:00:42,501 [man] I had a bad feeling about it. 5 00:00:44,169 --> 00:00:46,630 My wife did. She didn't even know what we was gonna do. 6 00:00:51,260 --> 00:00:53,887 She begged me not to leave the house that day. 7 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,975 Got in front of me at the door, pullin' on me, crying. 8 00:00:58,016 --> 00:00:59,643 I said, "I'll be right back." 9 00:01:04,022 --> 00:01:06,441 That was my last warning. 10 00:01:08,944 --> 00:01:10,946 [traffic noise] 11 00:01:16,910 --> 00:01:18,412 [man 2] Wintertime. January. 12 00:01:19,413 --> 00:01:21,081 {\an8}A very cold Friday night. 13 00:01:24,209 --> 00:01:26,128 {\an8}Two guys walk over to the counter, 14 00:01:27,212 --> 00:01:30,382 ask me to pick up something from the bottom shelf, 15 00:01:30,424 --> 00:01:31,842 I don't remember what it was. 16 00:01:33,010 --> 00:01:34,886 I picked it up and when I stood up, 17 00:01:35,637 --> 00:01:37,431 {\an8}the guy had a... 18 00:01:37,472 --> 00:01:39,975 {\an8}.25 automatic pointed at me. 19 00:01:42,728 --> 00:01:44,396 {\an8}Right on the gun counter there was 20 00:01:44,438 --> 00:01:47,858 a picture of my daughter receiving her communion. 21 00:01:48,650 --> 00:01:50,861 I says, "Take it easy, 22 00:01:50,902 --> 00:01:52,946 I want to get home to see my family tonight." 23 00:01:55,157 --> 00:01:56,783 The little guy had a handgun. 24 00:01:56,825 --> 00:01:59,453 I'm lookin' at the gun and I'm sayin' to myself 25 00:01:59,494 --> 00:02:03,332 that I thought it was a pellet gun. 26 00:02:04,583 --> 00:02:06,585 Then he pulls the trigger and, bang, into-- 27 00:02:07,836 --> 00:02:09,212 and into the shelf. 28 00:02:09,671 --> 00:02:12,924 I swore to myself at that point there 29 00:02:13,300 --> 00:02:16,303 that if I get a chance to kill ya, I'm gonna kill ya. 30 00:02:17,054 --> 00:02:19,056 -[indistinct chatter] -[sirens wailing] 31 00:02:23,644 --> 00:02:25,270 [man on bullhorn] Come out with your hands up! 32 00:02:28,523 --> 00:02:30,734 [sirens wailing] 33 00:02:35,447 --> 00:02:37,240 [gunshots] 34 00:02:38,283 --> 00:02:39,785 [man on radio] Okay, hold it! 35 00:02:40,369 --> 00:02:41,745 [man] Get outta here quick! 36 00:02:42,537 --> 00:02:44,081 {\an8}[gunshot] 37 00:02:45,874 --> 00:02:49,211 {\an8}[7] 38 00:02:49,252 --> 00:02:50,837 [reporter] A story of violence 39 00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:53,548 inside a sporting goods store in Brooklyn. 40 00:02:53,590 --> 00:02:56,259 Four terrorists had been surprised inside the store 41 00:02:56,301 --> 00:02:57,761 on Friday afternoon 42 00:02:57,803 --> 00:03:01,973 when police arrived in response to a robbery alarm. 43 00:03:02,015 --> 00:03:04,226 [man] It was a store with outdoors equipment 44 00:03:04,267 --> 00:03:06,061 the usual camping stuff, 45 00:03:06,103 --> 00:03:07,896 and then the guns. 46 00:03:07,938 --> 00:03:10,357 The guns are what it was really all about. 47 00:03:10,399 --> 00:03:12,109 {\an8}They were people who wanted them, 48 00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:14,152 {\an8}and they took innocent people inside the store 49 00:03:14,194 --> 00:03:15,570 and made hostages of them. 50 00:03:17,864 --> 00:03:20,075 {\an8}[7] 51 00:03:20,117 --> 00:03:21,410 {\an8}[man] Holy crap. 52 00:03:21,451 --> 00:03:23,662 {\an8}Twelve hostages inside a sporting goods store 53 00:03:23,704 --> 00:03:25,122 {\an8}loaded with firearms. 54 00:03:26,540 --> 00:03:28,542 This was the Titanic. 55 00:03:28,583 --> 00:03:29,710 The moon landing. 56 00:03:31,128 --> 00:03:33,255 {\an8}I'm never gonna forget the siege. 57 00:03:34,256 --> 00:03:37,759 {\an8}It's permanently etched in your-- in your heart 58 00:03:37,801 --> 00:03:38,802 {\an8}and in your soul. 59 00:03:41,847 --> 00:03:43,932 The lessons learned of this case 60 00:03:43,974 --> 00:03:46,435 were so revolutionary for law enforcement. 61 00:03:47,686 --> 00:03:50,689 Out of this tragedy, amazingly, 62 00:03:51,189 --> 00:03:54,234 this is the birthplace of hostage negotiation. 63 00:03:57,112 --> 00:03:58,405 {\an8}[man] It's scary. 64 00:03:58,447 --> 00:04:01,324 {\an8}So cops usually wind up overreacting. 65 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:04,578 {\an8}Police want to be macho. 66 00:04:05,245 --> 00:04:07,998 Lob in the gas and storm the place. 67 00:04:08,039 --> 00:04:10,125 "Kill 'em all! They're all evil." 68 00:04:12,294 --> 00:04:15,005 {\an8}No. I believe in talking. 69 00:04:15,046 --> 00:04:17,382 {\an8}Everything is resolvable by talking. 70 00:04:29,019 --> 00:04:31,855 [Jerry Riccio] The leader, he wanted five shotguns. 71 00:04:32,814 --> 00:04:34,191 They gave me a duffel bag. 72 00:04:34,566 --> 00:04:36,902 12-guage ammo in the bag, I'm filling it up, 73 00:04:36,943 --> 00:04:38,403 filling it up and filling up. 74 00:04:39,404 --> 00:04:40,989 And I turned around, I said to him, I says, 75 00:04:41,031 --> 00:04:43,867 "Can I ask you a question now? Who's gonna carry this bag?" 76 00:04:46,036 --> 00:04:47,120 Couldn't even drag it. 77 00:04:47,162 --> 00:04:48,538 He says, "You just keep filling it." 78 00:04:49,748 --> 00:04:53,168 I filled it up, the guy grabbed it by the handle. 79 00:04:53,210 --> 00:04:54,336 Can't move it. 80 00:04:54,377 --> 00:04:55,670 You're not too smart. 81 00:04:56,505 --> 00:04:59,508 [7] 82 00:05:00,634 --> 00:05:02,844 The only thing that stopped them from gettin' out is 83 00:05:02,886 --> 00:05:05,055 someone outside called the cops. 84 00:05:07,808 --> 00:05:10,185 There was a cop lookin' in the doorway. 85 00:05:10,936 --> 00:05:12,604 When he seen the rifles, 86 00:05:12,646 --> 00:05:14,898 the guys eyeballs, I'll never forget it. 87 00:05:16,441 --> 00:05:17,818 [man] "Call for backup. 88 00:05:17,859 --> 00:05:19,486 "Patrol units responding. 89 00:05:20,403 --> 00:05:21,947 "Call on walkie-talkie. 90 00:05:21,988 --> 00:05:23,240 N-[bleep] with a gun.โ€ 91 00:05:23,740 --> 00:05:27,035 {\an8}This had to be terrifying for her 92 00:05:27,577 --> 00:05:29,621 {\an8}to have to go through something like that. 93 00:05:31,957 --> 00:05:34,668 For my mother to hear the cop say that. 94 00:05:36,002 --> 00:05:38,004 {\an8}To fear the cops. 95 00:05:38,922 --> 00:05:40,507 {\an8}She probably didn't even know 96 00:05:40,549 --> 00:05:42,008 guns was in that building. 97 00:05:42,050 --> 00:05:43,552 She wouldn't have gone in there. 98 00:05:44,761 --> 00:05:46,304 My dad needed a wallet. 99 00:05:47,097 --> 00:05:49,099 John & Al is right when you come off the train. 100 00:05:51,393 --> 00:05:53,019 My mother paid for it. 101 00:05:53,770 --> 00:05:55,105 Few more seconds, 102 00:05:55,146 --> 00:05:58,650 my mother would have walked out that door. 103 00:06:01,361 --> 00:06:04,781 The gunmen locked the door right in front of her face. 104 00:06:05,615 --> 00:06:07,075 That's what it was. 105 00:06:08,618 --> 00:06:09,953 A wallet. 106 00:06:12,455 --> 00:06:14,875 {\an8}So we had white police officers, mostly, uh, 107 00:06:14,916 --> 00:06:16,209 {\an8}on the inner perimeter. 108 00:06:16,543 --> 00:06:19,504 So that might have been some considerations as well. 109 00:06:20,755 --> 00:06:23,842 We thought we had four members of the Black Liberation Army 110 00:06:23,884 --> 00:06:24,968 inside the store. 111 00:06:25,886 --> 00:06:27,554 It was a very radical group, 112 00:06:27,596 --> 00:06:29,014 very violent and dangerous group. 113 00:06:29,347 --> 00:06:31,975 Many police officer assassinations under their belt. 114 00:06:33,310 --> 00:06:34,936 {\an8}Emotions are running high. 115 00:06:36,313 --> 00:06:38,773 {\an8}[man] The BLA was ambushing the police officers. 116 00:06:39,274 --> 00:06:41,484 You had a blue uniform on, you were a target. 117 00:06:43,111 --> 00:06:44,362 I was a rookie. 118 00:06:45,155 --> 00:06:46,948 {\an8}I remember like it was yesterday. 119 00:06:48,700 --> 00:06:51,119 {\an8}You're dealing with lowlifes that don't care. 120 00:06:52,954 --> 00:06:54,247 They hate the police. 121 00:06:55,540 --> 00:06:57,500 No. 122 00:06:58,543 --> 00:06:59,836 {\an8}They didn't know who we were. 123 00:07:01,463 --> 00:07:03,173 {\an8}I don't dislike police. 124 00:07:03,465 --> 00:07:05,550 {\an8}They thought all this crazy stuff about us. 125 00:07:05,592 --> 00:07:07,886 {\an8}They thought we were black revolutionaries. 126 00:07:08,219 --> 00:07:09,304 We were not. 127 00:07:09,888 --> 00:07:12,891 I worked for the Transit, selling tokens in the booth. 128 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:18,146 Dawud is a college student, outstanding artist. 129 00:07:19,356 --> 00:07:22,108 Salih is a TV and radio repairman. 130 00:07:23,568 --> 00:07:25,362 Mussidiq is a carpenter. 131 00:07:25,904 --> 00:07:28,198 We're not unemployed, dope fiends, 132 00:07:28,239 --> 00:07:29,866 and thieves and crooks. 133 00:07:32,202 --> 00:07:33,620 {\an8}We're squares. 134 00:07:37,374 --> 00:07:39,459 {\an8}I was terrified. 135 00:07:41,211 --> 00:07:43,755 I was like an understudy to Shu'aib. 136 00:07:43,797 --> 00:07:46,591 You know, he was like my mentor at the time. 137 00:07:46,633 --> 00:07:47,884 You know. 138 00:07:47,926 --> 00:07:50,720 He was living on his own, you know, I-- 139 00:07:50,762 --> 00:07:54,474 {\an8}With his wife, you know, I was still with my mother, 140 00:07:54,516 --> 00:07:58,228 {\an8}using his situation as an example to follow. 141 00:08:01,481 --> 00:08:04,317 {\an8}On the way there, I was hoping somebody would, 142 00:08:04,818 --> 00:08:06,695 like, just say, okay, like... 143 00:08:07,153 --> 00:08:10,407 maybe we should, like, just scrap this and like, but, uh-- 144 00:08:11,741 --> 00:08:13,868 I didn't-- I couldn't come up with any, you know, 145 00:08:13,910 --> 00:08:15,829 alternative solution, 146 00:08:15,870 --> 00:08:18,915 so I just, more or less, went along with it, you know? 147 00:08:19,958 --> 00:08:22,961 [7] 148 00:08:24,546 --> 00:08:25,922 A lot of regrets. 149 00:08:30,343 --> 00:08:33,930 I observed one police officer in front of the store. 150 00:08:34,931 --> 00:08:37,017 You don't need to take it any further, you know, 151 00:08:37,058 --> 00:08:38,852 they're-- they're here, you know, 152 00:08:39,728 --> 00:08:41,354 we-- we're through. 153 00:08:41,396 --> 00:08:43,940 You know, we should have surrendered at that time, 154 00:08:43,982 --> 00:08:46,026 but, uh... 155 00:08:46,067 --> 00:08:49,279 my co-defendants tried to make an exit from the store. 156 00:08:50,739 --> 00:08:52,574 That's when things went haywire. 157 00:08:55,618 --> 00:08:57,412 [Shu'aib Raheem] We made that fateful decision. 158 00:08:57,787 --> 00:09:00,999 To get these guns. To protect our families. 159 00:09:01,833 --> 00:09:03,585 In retrospect, it was a fool's idea 160 00:09:03,626 --> 00:09:05,712 to think we can get out the back door. 161 00:09:05,754 --> 00:09:07,547 [door opening] 162 00:09:07,589 --> 00:09:09,049 We opened the door. 163 00:09:09,090 --> 00:09:10,967 [indistinct shouting] 164 00:09:11,009 --> 00:09:13,053 There were cops everywhere. 165 00:09:14,095 --> 00:09:15,972 [indistinct shouting] 166 00:09:16,514 --> 00:09:18,391 {\an8}Super hyper. Payin' attention to everybody. 167 00:09:18,433 --> 00:09:19,476 {\an8}Lookin' there, lookin' there. 168 00:09:20,268 --> 00:09:21,603 Who's the good guy? Who's the bad guy? 169 00:09:21,644 --> 00:09:22,854 Who do you trust? 170 00:09:22,896 --> 00:09:24,481 {\an8}How you gonna say, "Drop the weapon,โ€ 171 00:09:24,522 --> 00:09:26,149 {\an8}but when you go to drop it, they tell you, 172 00:09:26,191 --> 00:09:28,068 "Don't move. Freeze. Drop the weapon. 173 00:09:28,109 --> 00:09:30,278 Don't move. Freeze. Hand me the gun.โ€ 174 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,572 You know, I mean-- What do you do? 175 00:09:33,239 --> 00:09:36,284 I'm ready to surrender. You won't let me surrender. 176 00:09:36,910 --> 00:09:39,537 That was how we perceived the situation. 177 00:09:42,749 --> 00:09:44,375 I'm trying to comply, 178 00:09:45,085 --> 00:09:48,421 passing off my rifle to this detective. 179 00:09:49,214 --> 00:09:51,758 The other officers interpreted it as a threat 180 00:09:52,801 --> 00:09:54,511 because they told me not to move. 181 00:09:57,138 --> 00:10:00,100 {\an8}That's what led to them firing the first shot. 182 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,228 {\an8}Does it matter who fired first? 183 00:10:03,269 --> 00:10:04,395 {\an8}There are some people 184 00:10:04,437 --> 00:10:05,897 {\an8}that need a damn beating. 185 00:10:05,939 --> 00:10:08,066 You know why? You can't talk to โ€˜em. 186 00:10:08,108 --> 00:10:09,484 You talk til you're blue in the face. 187 00:10:09,526 --> 00:10:11,820 They want a physical confrontation. 188 00:10:12,904 --> 00:10:14,364 That's what they want. 189 00:10:14,405 --> 00:10:15,657 {\an8}And that's their mentality. 190 00:10:16,199 --> 00:10:18,368 {\an8}And a guy like that needs his ass kicked. 191 00:10:22,580 --> 00:10:27,418 New York City's always had a hard, ugly relationship 192 00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:29,504 between the police and the people-- 193 00:10:29,546 --> 00:10:30,755 community of color. 194 00:10:31,548 --> 00:10:34,759 {\an8}All my life, police was killing black people. 195 00:10:37,345 --> 00:10:39,222 {\an8}I know-- I know for a fact... 196 00:10:39,973 --> 00:10:41,683 that cops aren't racist. 197 00:10:43,768 --> 00:10:46,604 Yet, there was this perception 198 00:10:47,272 --> 00:10:49,816 that cops are gonna brutalize Blacks. 199 00:10:51,901 --> 00:10:53,778 The police were seen as oppressors. 200 00:10:55,238 --> 00:10:56,281 {\an8}Corrupt. 201 00:10:56,781 --> 00:10:57,824 {\an8}Brutal. 202 00:10:58,867 --> 00:11:00,910 {\an8}[Jack Cambria] The police officer's stress is elevated 203 00:11:00,952 --> 00:11:02,245 {\an8}โ€˜cause you're always on. 204 00:11:02,745 --> 00:11:05,039 {\an8}When emotional levels are up in-- in a person, 205 00:11:05,081 --> 00:11:07,208 {\an8}then their rationality level is down. 206 00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:09,377 {\an8}It's kinda like that angle effect. 207 00:11:09,419 --> 00:11:11,254 {\an8}Emotion. Rationality. 208 00:11:12,922 --> 00:11:16,718 {\an8}Police officers become, sometimes, judge, jury, 209 00:11:16,759 --> 00:11:19,345 {\an8}and, uh, sometimes when the circumstances, uh, 210 00:11:19,387 --> 00:11:21,055 you know, present themselves, 211 00:11:21,097 --> 00:11:22,182 executioner. 212 00:11:24,058 --> 00:11:27,270 {\an8}There's this whiteness on the police department, 213 00:11:27,896 --> 00:11:29,731 {\an8}not properly trained, 214 00:11:30,231 --> 00:11:31,900 {\an8}fearful of being in neighborhoods 215 00:11:31,941 --> 00:11:33,985 that they're not accustomed to being in. 216 00:11:34,027 --> 00:11:36,029 {\an8}And so, in that sporting goods store, 217 00:11:36,779 --> 00:11:38,907 {\an8}when they see a black man in a doorway... 218 00:11:41,534 --> 00:11:43,036 {\an8}emotions take over. 219 00:11:43,745 --> 00:11:45,955 [gunshots] 220 00:11:48,208 --> 00:11:50,627 [Jerry Riccio] The cops' bullets are pockmarking against the building 221 00:11:50,668 --> 00:11:52,754 and I'm sayin', "Oh, my God, oh, my God," 222 00:11:52,795 --> 00:11:55,089 like I-- I gotta get hit. 223 00:11:58,301 --> 00:12:00,345 From where they were shooting, it wasn't... 224 00:12:02,430 --> 00:12:03,723 less than 15 feet. 225 00:12:03,765 --> 00:12:05,225 [gunshots] 226 00:12:05,266 --> 00:12:07,393 When one guy starts shootin', they all start shootin'. 227 00:12:08,519 --> 00:12:09,520 You're nuts. 228 00:12:10,939 --> 00:12:12,398 Firing away like crazy. 229 00:12:13,608 --> 00:12:15,485 {\an8}And the little guy pulls me back, 230 00:12:16,027 --> 00:12:17,737 {\an8}he steps up and fires. 231 00:12:18,196 --> 00:12:20,698 {\an8}You could feel the heat against my ribs. 232 00:12:20,740 --> 00:12:22,992 {\an8}-[gunshot] -[traffic noise] 233 00:12:23,034 --> 00:12:24,994 {\an8}[tires squealing] 234 00:12:25,036 --> 00:12:27,038 [siren wailing] 235 00:12:31,209 --> 00:12:33,461 I reached out and pulled the door in. 236 00:12:35,463 --> 00:12:37,257 It was a miracle I wasn't hit. 237 00:12:38,383 --> 00:12:40,635 Mussidiq was just standing there in shock. 238 00:12:40,969 --> 00:12:42,595 I lifted his shirt up. 239 00:12:43,513 --> 00:12:45,265 My hand was covered with blood. 240 00:12:46,140 --> 00:12:49,102 Stomach wound, there's nothin' you can do. 241 00:12:50,645 --> 00:12:52,730 If he didn't get attention, he was gonna die. 242 00:12:55,024 --> 00:12:57,026 [gunshots] 243 00:12:57,819 --> 00:12:59,654 [indistinct shouting] 244 00:13:01,823 --> 00:13:03,950 [gunshots] 245 00:13:04,784 --> 00:13:08,204 Bullets was flyin' all over the store. 246 00:13:08,246 --> 00:13:09,706 All over the store. 247 00:13:10,540 --> 00:13:13,584 The police knew there were hostages in there 248 00:13:13,626 --> 00:13:15,586 and they-- and they, uh-- 249 00:13:15,628 --> 00:13:19,257 they elevated their fire to above the hostages' heads. 250 00:13:19,299 --> 00:13:20,425 No. 251 00:13:20,925 --> 00:13:22,969 They-- That's the first thing 252 00:13:23,011 --> 00:13:25,805 one of the officers said afterwards. 253 00:13:25,847 --> 00:13:27,390 "Well, we were shooting high." 254 00:13:27,807 --> 00:13:29,600 I says, "You can tell that to somebody else, 255 00:13:29,642 --> 00:13:30,768 you can't tell it to me." 256 00:13:31,936 --> 00:13:33,396 The cops know there's customers, 257 00:13:33,438 --> 00:13:35,189 and you're shooting into the store. 258 00:13:35,732 --> 00:13:36,858 What are they, crazy? 259 00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:40,403 Here's my head. Here's where the bullet was hitting. 260 00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:43,031 The police department won't admit to 261 00:13:43,072 --> 00:13:44,615 a lot of things that they did. 262 00:13:45,575 --> 00:13:49,120 I was with Steve Gilroy. He was my partner that night. 263 00:13:50,038 --> 00:13:51,414 He was a great guy to be with. 264 00:13:52,248 --> 00:13:53,666 He was behind the L pillar. 265 00:13:53,708 --> 00:13:55,710 [gunshots] 266 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,009 I looked over, I saw Steve laying on the ground. 267 00:14:03,051 --> 00:14:04,927 [gunshots continue] 268 00:14:04,969 --> 00:14:07,430 He was hit in the back of his head, which opened up his skull. 269 00:14:09,932 --> 00:14:12,018 I saw part of his brain separate from his head. 270 00:14:17,857 --> 00:14:19,859 [crackling] 271 00:14:24,864 --> 00:14:26,866 [clock ticking] 272 00:14:33,748 --> 00:14:37,168 [Al Sheppard] You grieve for the guy that gets killed or hurt, God forbid. 273 00:14:38,252 --> 00:14:40,505 And then you want to go fuck somebody up over it. 274 00:14:40,546 --> 00:14:42,173 The bad guy. 275 00:14:42,215 --> 00:14:44,217 [indistinct chatter] 276 00:14:48,096 --> 00:14:50,306 Anybody in the ghetto knows, if you shoot a cop, 277 00:14:50,598 --> 00:14:51,641 they're gonna get you. 278 00:14:51,974 --> 00:14:53,976 [police radio chatter] 279 00:14:58,731 --> 00:15:00,733 {\an8}[sirens wailing] 280 00:15:06,572 --> 00:15:08,241 {\an8}[Shu'aib Raheem] Salih found the radio... 281 00:15:10,076 --> 00:15:11,327 {\an8}and turned it on. 282 00:15:12,912 --> 00:15:14,330 {\an8}We were all listening to it. 283 00:15:15,248 --> 00:15:18,251 {\an8}And they said, "We have four members of the Black Liberation Army 284 00:15:18,292 --> 00:15:19,877 surrounded inside a store.โ€ 285 00:15:25,258 --> 00:15:27,844 Oh, S-H-I-T, that's what. 286 00:15:29,095 --> 00:15:30,430 Oh, crap! 287 00:15:32,140 --> 00:15:34,142 [indistinct radio transmission] 288 00:15:34,684 --> 00:15:36,144 I know how they were thinkin'. 289 00:15:37,228 --> 00:15:38,521 They wanted blood. 290 00:15:39,981 --> 00:15:41,441 I was petrified. 291 00:15:43,067 --> 00:15:46,612 But I was gonna experience something much worse than that. 292 00:15:47,655 --> 00:15:49,240 [static] 293 00:15:49,282 --> 00:15:52,994 We heard it on the radio that we had inside the store. 294 00:15:53,035 --> 00:15:55,663 [radio announcer] ABC News, Brooklyn, New York. 295 00:15:55,705 --> 00:15:57,540 What happened here was a tragedy. 296 00:15:57,582 --> 00:16:00,751 One gunman was wounded, apparently seriously. 297 00:16:00,793 --> 00:16:02,503 One policeman was killed. 298 00:16:07,341 --> 00:16:09,802 It was a stunned silence at first. 299 00:16:11,721 --> 00:16:14,098 Then it was... 300 00:16:14,140 --> 00:16:15,349 shock. 301 00:16:16,350 --> 00:16:18,102 Everything changed. 302 00:16:19,645 --> 00:16:21,772 We didn't even know a cop was even killed. 303 00:16:22,190 --> 00:16:25,735 If you are responsible for a chain of events 304 00:16:25,776 --> 00:16:29,238 that culminated in the loss of life of a human being, 305 00:16:29,989 --> 00:16:32,325 there's no way to replace that life. 306 00:16:33,618 --> 00:16:36,120 I'ma have to carry this sin. 307 00:16:36,662 --> 00:16:38,873 {\an8}Man, I cried like a baby in the bathroom. 308 00:16:40,875 --> 00:16:42,210 {\an8}After he shot him, 309 00:16:42,251 --> 00:16:44,253 {\an8}I think he said, "I killed that pig. 310 00:16:44,295 --> 00:16:46,130 "I-- I offed that pig. 311 00:16:47,006 --> 00:16:49,383 If he sticks his head out again, I'm gonna-- I'm gonna kill him." 312 00:16:49,425 --> 00:16:51,469 And stuck his head out, shot him. 313 00:16:51,511 --> 00:16:53,387 "I got that pig, I killed that pig. 314 00:16:53,429 --> 00:16:54,514 Shot him in the head.โ€ 315 00:16:55,765 --> 00:16:57,099 [Shu'aib Raheem] That was never said. 316 00:16:57,475 --> 00:16:59,894 I was talking about a different officer 317 00:16:59,936 --> 00:17:01,020 who shot at me. 318 00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:04,023 I said, "Man, there's this guy across the street, man, 319 00:17:04,065 --> 00:17:06,275 hold up, man, you know, I-- Pew! 320 00:17:06,317 --> 00:17:07,693 And he took off and ran. 321 00:17:08,861 --> 00:17:10,112 [exhales] 322 00:17:10,988 --> 00:17:13,783 Well, that comment, "I gotta-- I'm gonna get this guy behind the pole," 323 00:17:14,367 --> 00:17:16,619 is what they tried to say that the comment was made 324 00:17:16,661 --> 00:17:17,912 when Mr. Gilroy was killed. 325 00:17:18,996 --> 00:17:20,706 I still don't know how he got hit. 326 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,458 We were hunkered down. 327 00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:25,002 The van blocked that whole line of sight. 328 00:17:26,170 --> 00:17:29,674 I can only imagine it was some type of 329 00:17:30,007 --> 00:17:33,261 ricochet or whatever. Friendly fire. 330 00:17:35,304 --> 00:17:37,223 I didn't have the right angle to see him. 331 00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:41,894 I could on see the bar called the Oasis. 332 00:17:43,229 --> 00:17:45,022 The cops were shooting all over the place. 333 00:17:47,525 --> 00:17:49,610 [Shu'aib Raheem] He was shot in the side of the head. 334 00:17:50,486 --> 00:17:51,904 Where'd that shot come from? 335 00:17:54,365 --> 00:17:56,033 I don't know... 336 00:17:56,075 --> 00:17:57,493 [sighs] 337 00:17:59,161 --> 00:18:00,413 ...what happened. 338 00:18:01,455 --> 00:18:02,873 It don't really matter. 339 00:18:05,459 --> 00:18:06,961 At the end of the day... 340 00:18:08,796 --> 00:18:10,214 really, it doesn't matter. 341 00:18:11,299 --> 00:18:13,092 Because none of that would have happened 342 00:18:13,926 --> 00:18:15,177 if we hadn't been there. 343 00:18:16,929 --> 00:18:19,932 {\an8}[7] 344 00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:24,395 {\an8}[Al Baker] It's losing a brother. 345 00:18:28,816 --> 00:18:30,234 {\an8}It takes a piece of you. 346 00:18:32,695 --> 00:18:35,114 We're always criticized for the thin blue line, 347 00:18:35,156 --> 00:18:36,866 or the "us and them,โ€ 348 00:18:36,907 --> 00:18:41,037 alienation that others have towards cops. 349 00:18:43,289 --> 00:18:45,666 You really hate to discriminate against people 350 00:18:45,708 --> 00:18:47,376 because their not cops, 351 00:18:47,418 --> 00:18:49,629 but you know in your heart of hearts, 352 00:18:49,670 --> 00:18:51,088 {\an8}deep down where you live, 353 00:18:52,423 --> 00:18:53,591 {\an8}they don't get it. 354 00:18:53,966 --> 00:18:56,969 [7] 355 00:19:04,935 --> 00:19:06,646 You know he's dead now. 356 00:19:07,063 --> 00:19:09,023 {\an8}You think of yourself, you think of your family, 357 00:19:09,065 --> 00:19:10,358 {\an8}you think of his family. 358 00:19:10,399 --> 00:19:11,984 Goes through so fast. 359 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:13,402 But you know it's over. 360 00:19:14,403 --> 00:19:15,988 It's almost like the end of the world to you. 361 00:19:17,573 --> 00:19:19,158 [Brian Tuohy] You could have had breakfast with him, 362 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,493 and all of a sudden, he's gone. 363 00:19:21,619 --> 00:19:22,995 Why am I here today? 364 00:19:26,332 --> 00:19:29,043 It could have been me, but I can't think like that. 365 00:19:31,629 --> 00:19:33,589 Nobody ever said, "How-- How are you doin'?" 366 00:19:33,631 --> 00:19:34,799 or anything. No. 367 00:19:36,050 --> 00:19:39,053 Today, I would be in a hospital for a week or so 368 00:19:39,095 --> 00:19:40,137 being talked to. 369 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,556 But yeah, nothing-- nobody even spoke to me at all 370 00:19:42,598 --> 00:19:43,891 about what happened. 371 00:19:43,933 --> 00:19:46,936 [7] 372 00:19:48,521 --> 00:19:51,065 [Al Sheppard] The psychological dangers are much worse than the physical. 373 00:19:52,149 --> 00:19:54,235 It will kill you. Eat you up. 374 00:19:55,569 --> 00:19:58,447 A lot of cops have PTSD, alcoholism. 375 00:20:00,449 --> 00:20:03,744 {\an8}There's so many people I knew that committed suicide. 376 00:20:08,416 --> 00:20:10,751 {\an8}[Gerald Lefcourt] The head of the intelligence unit said 377 00:20:10,793 --> 00:20:13,129 there's as much as 10 percent of the police force 378 00:20:13,170 --> 00:20:14,755 that are emotionally unstable. 379 00:20:17,174 --> 00:20:18,634 Which was a shocking thing 380 00:20:18,676 --> 00:20:21,303 for a leader in the police department to say. 381 00:20:23,472 --> 00:20:25,433 [Jack Cambria] There's a stigma for many police officers 382 00:20:25,474 --> 00:20:28,018 to come forward because of that strong macho image 383 00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:29,645 that we are expected to portray. 384 00:20:29,687 --> 00:20:31,439 It's a humiliation. 385 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,482 {\an8}So they would rather just keep their-- 386 00:20:33,524 --> 00:20:35,818 {\an8}their emotional issues internal, 387 00:20:35,860 --> 00:20:37,278 and we know what happens with that. 388 00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:39,321 [indistinct chatter] 389 00:20:48,330 --> 00:20:50,332 {\an8}[man on bullhorn] 390 00:20:52,501 --> 00:20:54,879 {\an8}[Shu'aib Raheem] Police were telling us everything was all right, 391 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,213 no one was hurt. 392 00:20:56,255 --> 00:20:57,465 Lying to us. 393 00:20:58,924 --> 00:21:00,634 {\an8}Trying to lull us to sleep. 394 00:21:01,761 --> 00:21:03,763 {\an8}They were gonna kill us when we walked out the door. 395 00:21:06,515 --> 00:21:09,226 {\an8}Don't lie. Don't lie. 396 00:21:09,810 --> 00:21:11,604 Crazy people aren't always stupid. 397 00:21:13,105 --> 00:21:14,607 He knows when you're full of crap. 398 00:21:15,566 --> 00:21:17,485 Now the trust is gone. 399 00:21:17,902 --> 00:21:20,905 [7] 400 00:21:26,410 --> 00:21:28,621 [Jerry Riccio] By that time, you had another 500 cops. 401 00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:32,416 Angry? Yeah. 402 00:21:32,458 --> 00:21:33,584 If the cops were to burst in, 403 00:21:33,626 --> 00:21:35,002 who are they gonna be shootin' at? 404 00:21:37,087 --> 00:21:38,380 They wouldn't know where we are. 405 00:21:41,592 --> 00:21:44,887 There was no cop negotiating comin' up close to the store, 406 00:21:44,929 --> 00:21:47,431 "Look, we'll give you this, we'll do this for you.โ€ 407 00:21:48,891 --> 00:21:50,851 We're all gonna die. 408 00:21:52,478 --> 00:21:53,813 We're gonna shoot it out. 409 00:21:58,275 --> 00:22:00,277 The hostages were all sittin' in there. 410 00:22:00,986 --> 00:22:02,571 Every time the guy fired a shot, 411 00:22:02,988 --> 00:22:05,825 the black girl named Fonnie would jump out of her skin. 412 00:22:07,076 --> 00:22:10,412 [stammering] The-- The bang, the bang, the bang, the bang. 413 00:22:10,454 --> 00:22:13,082 And she would-- 414 00:22:13,123 --> 00:22:15,251 Tears were goin'. Like everybody was cryin'. 415 00:22:18,629 --> 00:22:20,673 {\an8}I was young, I was 16 years old. 416 00:22:22,007 --> 00:22:25,177 {\an8}I went into shock from what I just witnessed. 417 00:22:27,555 --> 00:22:30,808 {\an8}Gunshots, the glass breaking. 418 00:22:32,017 --> 00:22:33,811 {\an8}Um... 419 00:22:33,853 --> 00:22:35,354 people, you know-- 420 00:22:35,396 --> 00:22:37,106 Yeah, the sounds of gunshots, 421 00:22:37,147 --> 00:22:41,068 uh, people, um, screaming in the store, 422 00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:45,531 you know, we were-- we were-- we were screaming and... 423 00:22:47,575 --> 00:22:50,160 the gunman who was injured was holding his abdomen, 424 00:22:50,703 --> 00:22:51,954 moaning in pain. 425 00:22:52,955 --> 00:22:54,456 His clothes were soaked through. 426 00:22:55,708 --> 00:22:56,876 He was bleeding out. 427 00:23:00,087 --> 00:23:01,630 [Jerry Riccio] The leader comes over to me and says, 428 00:23:01,672 --> 00:23:03,716 {\an8}"My man that's hit is in pain. 429 00:23:04,383 --> 00:23:05,467 {\an8}Give me a rag." 430 00:23:06,176 --> 00:23:07,928 [water running] 431 00:23:07,970 --> 00:23:09,680 They go in the bathroom, I wet the rag, 432 00:23:10,055 --> 00:23:12,099 and I'm about to put the rag on the wound, 433 00:23:12,850 --> 00:23:15,311 the little guy picks up the gun and puts it to my head, 434 00:23:16,103 --> 00:23:17,563 stuck it underneath and... 435 00:23:18,188 --> 00:23:19,940 I went as high as I could. 436 00:23:22,192 --> 00:23:24,445 It doesn't take much for those triggers to go off. 437 00:23:25,946 --> 00:23:26,989 Your head's gone. 438 00:23:27,907 --> 00:23:30,910 [7] 439 00:23:32,745 --> 00:23:34,371 I'm tryin' to help ya. 440 00:23:35,539 --> 00:23:37,166 And you're gonna put a gun to my head? 441 00:23:38,292 --> 00:23:39,710 What kind of a person are you? 442 00:23:40,669 --> 00:23:42,212 He was very impulsive. 443 00:23:44,131 --> 00:23:45,674 Scary at times. 444 00:23:46,091 --> 00:23:47,134 Mussidiq. 445 00:23:48,928 --> 00:23:50,304 A loose canon. 446 00:23:51,013 --> 00:23:53,390 We was concerned about him exploding. 447 00:23:57,227 --> 00:23:59,063 [Jack Cambria] When you get to the scene as a negotiator, 448 00:23:59,104 --> 00:24:01,023 they're handing off the bomb that's already-- 449 00:24:01,065 --> 00:24:02,066 the fuse is already lit, 450 00:24:03,067 --> 00:24:05,194 so we have to kind of try to defuse that. 451 00:24:10,157 --> 00:24:12,034 We have an ever evolving approach 452 00:24:12,076 --> 00:24:13,452 because we learn from mistakes. 453 00:24:15,204 --> 00:24:17,414 Prior to 1973, we'd give the hostage taker 454 00:24:17,456 --> 00:24:19,333 a set amount of time to surrender, 455 00:24:19,667 --> 00:24:20,751 and if they did not, 456 00:24:22,127 --> 00:24:23,837 they would be met with tactical force. 457 00:24:26,256 --> 00:24:27,383 Guns. 458 00:24:27,424 --> 00:24:30,219 [7] 459 00:24:30,260 --> 00:24:32,888 {\an8}The first hostage negotiation team in the world 460 00:24:33,263 --> 00:24:35,516 {\an8}was formulated here in the NYPD 461 00:24:35,557 --> 00:24:37,476 {\an8}based on a series of events. 462 00:24:37,518 --> 00:24:40,562 {\an8}The first one was the Attica Prison riots back in 1971. 463 00:24:43,357 --> 00:24:45,067 {\an8}[Gerald Lefcourt] Such oppressive conditions. 464 00:24:45,526 --> 00:24:47,027 There's no question, 465 00:24:47,069 --> 00:24:50,155 there's terrible racism in the criminal justice system. 466 00:24:51,448 --> 00:24:54,034 Rather than trying to resolve the crisis 467 00:24:54,076 --> 00:24:55,869 or take down the tensions, 468 00:24:56,870 --> 00:25:00,916 it's about winning and knockout punches. 469 00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,544 It's about destroying your enemy. 470 00:25:05,045 --> 00:25:06,171 That was Attica. 471 00:25:07,047 --> 00:25:08,465 {\an8}[man] 472 00:25:08,507 --> 00:25:10,634 {\an8}[men] 473 00:25:11,635 --> 00:25:14,054 {\an8}[7] 474 00:25:14,096 --> 00:25:16,724 {\an8}[Jack Cambria] The highest authorities, all they do is tactics. 475 00:25:17,474 --> 00:25:19,435 And when every problem is a nail, 476 00:25:19,476 --> 00:25:21,145 then every solution has to be a hammer. 477 00:25:22,104 --> 00:25:23,230 We're not gonna negotiate. 478 00:25:23,272 --> 00:25:24,815 We're gonna go through that door. 479 00:25:26,191 --> 00:25:28,193 [whirring] 480 00:25:28,736 --> 00:25:31,697 [7] 481 00:25:31,739 --> 00:25:33,741 [gunfire] 482 00:25:35,325 --> 00:25:37,327 -[indistinct shouting] -[clamoring] 483 00:25:38,454 --> 00:25:39,580 [Jack Cambria] It was a bloodbath. 484 00:25:39,621 --> 00:25:41,582 Forty-three individuals were killed. 485 00:25:42,583 --> 00:25:44,710 Let's learn from those past mistakes. 486 00:25:45,085 --> 00:25:46,503 Maybe we shouldn't do that again. 487 00:25:46,545 --> 00:25:48,213 It didn't work the last time. 488 00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:50,924 One year later, there was 489 00:25:50,966 --> 00:25:52,926 the Dog Day Afternoon bank robbery. 490 00:25:52,968 --> 00:25:54,970 {\an8}[cheering] 491 00:25:55,512 --> 00:25:58,474 {\an8}Messy, unorganized. Very dangerous. 492 00:25:59,224 --> 00:26:00,851 {\an8}It was negotiated from the cuff. 493 00:26:00,893 --> 00:26:03,270 {\an8}There was no theory behind it. It was just, uh, 494 00:26:03,312 --> 00:26:05,773 {\an8}"Hey, come on out." "No." 495 00:26:05,814 --> 00:26:07,066 "Come on out." 496 00:26:08,901 --> 00:26:09,943 "No." 497 00:26:09,985 --> 00:26:11,195 [no audible dialog] 498 00:26:12,905 --> 00:26:15,240 Then, in September of 1972, 499 00:26:15,282 --> 00:26:17,326 {\an8}there was the Munich Olympics. 500 00:26:17,618 --> 00:26:20,204 {\an8}Palestinian guerrillas took Israeli athletes hostage. 501 00:26:21,705 --> 00:26:23,957 Eleven Israeli athletes and coaches were killed. 502 00:26:24,833 --> 00:26:26,043 Tragedy. 503 00:26:26,085 --> 00:26:27,377 We have to do something. 504 00:26:28,253 --> 00:26:30,506 This could very well happen here in New York City. 505 00:26:30,547 --> 00:26:32,174 [birds chirping] 506 00:26:32,216 --> 00:26:35,803 [woman] Hostage negotiation was a world problem 507 00:26:35,844 --> 00:26:38,388 {\an8}that had come under the microscope 508 00:26:38,430 --> 00:26:39,848 {\an8}for the NYPD. 509 00:26:40,307 --> 00:26:42,351 {\an8}And they were saying, "Here, go fix it." 510 00:26:43,936 --> 00:26:45,729 [Al Baker] Harvey didn't look like a cop, 511 00:26:45,771 --> 00:26:47,147 he didn't act like a cop. 512 00:26:47,731 --> 00:26:51,610 The least ever macho dude, the least violent. 513 00:26:51,985 --> 00:26:53,779 He was seen as fruity. 514 00:26:55,531 --> 00:26:58,450 Not a back-slapper, "let's go for a beerโ€ guy. 515 00:26:58,742 --> 00:27:00,494 Pretty socially incompetent. 516 00:27:01,245 --> 00:27:03,539 Academic, quirky. 517 00:27:03,580 --> 00:27:05,999 Always using a funny story. 518 00:27:06,041 --> 00:27:07,793 He has the Jewish sense of humor. 519 00:27:08,544 --> 00:27:10,587 He's the consummate Jew. 520 00:27:11,547 --> 00:27:15,467 He was a genius, oddball, psychobabble kind of guy. 521 00:27:16,885 --> 00:27:17,970 [Harvey Schlossberg] Distrust. 522 00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:21,723 {\an8}They were checking on my advice to make sure it was okay. 523 00:27:22,266 --> 00:27:23,809 {\an8}Remember, this was all new. 524 00:27:24,226 --> 00:27:26,145 This was all relatively new at the time. 525 00:27:26,186 --> 00:27:29,022 I was comin' up with a whole bunch of theories. 526 00:27:29,982 --> 00:27:31,775 All the pressures, 527 00:27:31,817 --> 00:27:34,862 and all the anxieties that we talk about 528 00:27:34,903 --> 00:27:36,572 which affect the criminal 529 00:27:36,864 --> 00:27:40,826 also affect the cop on the scene the same exact way. 530 00:27:40,868 --> 00:27:43,412 {\an8}We have to reduce the anxiety 531 00:27:43,453 --> 00:27:45,747 {\an8}to get him out of that panic state. 532 00:27:46,832 --> 00:27:48,834 [clock ticking] 533 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,962 [siren wailing] 534 00:27:58,677 --> 00:28:00,637 [indistinct chatter] 535 00:28:00,679 --> 00:28:02,931 Nobody is certain of what will happen 536 00:28:02,973 --> 00:28:04,600 {\an8}in this kind of situation. 537 00:28:05,017 --> 00:28:06,226 {\an8}Uh, I must say... 538 00:28:06,268 --> 00:28:07,561 [Al Baker] When Police Commissioner Murphy 539 00:28:07,603 --> 00:28:09,605 got to the scene that Friday night, 540 00:28:09,646 --> 00:28:12,107 there was a dead cop two other cops shot. 541 00:28:13,192 --> 00:28:16,653 {\an8}The question is, "Can we stop them from killing the hostages?" 542 00:28:19,072 --> 00:28:21,074 {\an8}[Harvey Schlossberg] I was in a different room than they were. 543 00:28:21,575 --> 00:28:24,661 {\an8}A half a block away. A cleaning store. 544 00:28:25,162 --> 00:28:27,206 I was in the room where you sweat and think, 545 00:28:27,247 --> 00:28:28,874 "What the heck is gonna happen next?" 546 00:28:31,251 --> 00:28:33,170 [Jack Cambria] Harvey was a traffic cop. 547 00:28:33,670 --> 00:28:35,881 but he had his PhD in psychology. 548 00:28:38,342 --> 00:28:40,177 He was called out to the scene. 549 00:28:41,303 --> 00:28:45,307 Inside of a sporting goods store there's butane, ammunition. 550 00:28:45,349 --> 00:28:48,268 The chief wanted to throw tear gas inside of the store, 551 00:28:48,852 --> 00:28:51,688 but Harvey had to, you know, convince him that 552 00:28:51,730 --> 00:28:53,232 that would not be the best approach. 553 00:28:53,815 --> 00:28:56,026 You could start a fire with all that ammunition, 554 00:28:56,068 --> 00:28:57,736 blow up the entire neighborhood. 555 00:28:59,655 --> 00:29:01,782 The police are really worried. 556 00:29:02,324 --> 00:29:03,659 They get angrier. 557 00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:06,203 "Come out with your hands up or else." 558 00:29:07,621 --> 00:29:09,706 It was the old Wild West. 559 00:29:09,748 --> 00:29:12,668 If you get an open target, just shoot them. 560 00:29:15,337 --> 00:29:18,590 I told the commissioner, "You get words going, 561 00:29:18,632 --> 00:29:20,300 then you can calm 'em down." 562 00:29:23,262 --> 00:29:25,138 Hostage negotiating? 563 00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:26,640 {\an8}Wh-- What are you talkin' about? 564 00:29:27,307 --> 00:29:30,185 {\an8}We don't-- We don't negotiate with criminals. 565 00:29:31,853 --> 00:29:34,189 {\an8}A cop became a cop for law and order. 566 00:29:34,856 --> 00:29:35,899 Victory. 567 00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:40,112 This is not the time for a Harvey Schlossberg. 568 00:29:40,153 --> 00:29:42,281 This is a time for surprise, 569 00:29:42,990 --> 00:29:44,324 violence of action, 570 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,077 direct lethal force. 571 00:29:49,746 --> 00:29:51,999 [Al Sheppard] Hear this rumbling coming down Broadway. 572 00:29:52,374 --> 00:29:54,376 It's like a dinosaur rumbling down the street. 573 00:29:54,418 --> 00:29:56,128 Bum-bum-bum-bum-bum- bum-bum-bum-bum. 574 00:29:56,670 --> 00:29:58,380 And I'm goin', "What the fuck is that? 575 00:29:58,422 --> 00:29:59,881 {\an8}Is that what I think it is?" 576 00:29:59,923 --> 00:30:01,925 {\an8}[rumbling] 577 00:30:04,052 --> 00:30:05,262 [Shu'aib Raheem] Oh, Lord. 578 00:30:06,013 --> 00:30:07,931 Did anyone committing 579 00:30:07,973 --> 00:30:09,891 what we thought was a small robbery 580 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,269 ever anticipate 581 00:30:12,978 --> 00:30:15,147 confronting a t-- [chuckles] 582 00:30:15,188 --> 00:30:16,231 a tank? 583 00:30:16,273 --> 00:30:18,275 [rumbling] 584 00:30:19,943 --> 00:30:22,070 They were telling us that if we didn't come out, 585 00:30:22,404 --> 00:30:25,032 they was gonna drive the tank right inside the store. 586 00:30:28,535 --> 00:30:29,953 [Harvey Schlossberg] Oh, no, no, no, no, 587 00:30:29,995 --> 00:30:31,330 that's the worst thing you can do. 588 00:30:32,706 --> 00:30:36,543 An ultimatum is trying to frighten them into surrendering, 589 00:30:36,585 --> 00:30:39,046 and most people in a situation like that 590 00:30:39,087 --> 00:30:40,339 don't get frightened. 591 00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:42,924 -[gunshots] -That just angers them. 592 00:30:43,342 --> 00:30:44,968 They may go off the deep end. 593 00:30:45,010 --> 00:30:47,012 [gunshots] 594 00:30:47,429 --> 00:30:50,182 [Al Baker] The bad guys, they're bouncin' rounds off the tank. 595 00:30:51,266 --> 00:30:54,603 Four guys who just killed a cop and have 12 people at gunpoint 596 00:30:54,644 --> 00:30:57,814 in a-- in an ammunition-filled environment, 597 00:30:58,648 --> 00:31:00,734 and you're gonna-- you're gonna play hardball with them? 598 00:31:01,568 --> 00:31:02,611 I don't think so. 599 00:31:04,154 --> 00:31:06,156 [indistinct chatter] 600 00:31:07,949 --> 00:31:09,826 [police radio chatter] 601 00:31:09,868 --> 00:31:11,703 [man on radio] It's 2:54 in Midtown. 602 00:31:11,745 --> 00:31:13,497 I'm Drew Scott, WXLO News, 603 00:31:13,538 --> 00:31:15,791 with the top stories of the hour. 604 00:31:15,832 --> 00:31:17,959 A standoff continues on the shivering streets 605 00:31:18,001 --> 00:31:19,836 of the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn 606 00:31:19,878 --> 00:31:22,381 between the cops and robbers of that sporting goods store. 607 00:31:25,884 --> 00:31:28,887 [7] 608 00:31:31,598 --> 00:31:33,266 [Jerry Riccio] The leader comes over to me. 609 00:31:33,308 --> 00:31:35,143 I says, "Want a cup of coffee?" 610 00:31:35,185 --> 00:31:37,270 He says, "You'd make me a cup of coffee? 611 00:31:38,146 --> 00:31:39,815 I'm holding you hostage." 612 00:31:40,774 --> 00:31:42,943 I says, "Well, if you look out the door, 613 00:31:42,984 --> 00:31:45,278 got about 5,000 guys holdin' you hostage." 614 00:31:48,657 --> 00:31:50,367 And he says, "I'll have a cup of coffee.โ€ 615 00:31:53,870 --> 00:31:55,580 If he was a customer in the store, 616 00:31:55,622 --> 00:31:57,207 he would have been a decent character. 617 00:31:58,041 --> 00:31:59,584 I spoke to them straight out. 618 00:31:59,626 --> 00:32:02,254 No neighborhood type conversation like, you know, like, 619 00:32:02,295 --> 00:32:05,048 "Hey, bro! You're doin'--" None of that. 620 00:32:05,090 --> 00:32:06,425 Nobody wants to hear that shit. 621 00:32:08,593 --> 00:32:10,804 I talked to him like I was talkin' to another person. 622 00:32:11,138 --> 00:32:12,848 Not my bro. 623 00:32:13,390 --> 00:32:14,516 He wasn't my bro. 624 00:32:15,308 --> 00:32:16,601 We're all in a mess down here. 625 00:32:16,643 --> 00:32:18,645 Everybody's cryin', everybody's separated. 626 00:32:18,687 --> 00:32:20,814 I says, "If you want to keep an eye on us, 627 00:32:21,898 --> 00:32:24,109 take us upstairs to the Boy Scout department.โ€ 628 00:32:26,695 --> 00:32:29,573 We all go upstairs, no one knows what I have. 629 00:32:31,533 --> 00:32:33,869 I got a 9mm Smith & Wesson. 630 00:32:34,578 --> 00:32:35,829 Gun's in the desk. 631 00:32:37,372 --> 00:32:39,207 In the dark, I take my keys out. 632 00:32:40,208 --> 00:32:42,919 [mimics coughing] Cough a little bit, turn it. 633 00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:49,009 [mimics coughing] 634 00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:53,972 Now I got the loaded 9mm. 635 00:32:54,931 --> 00:32:56,391 Who do I shoot first? 636 00:32:57,184 --> 00:32:58,268 The leader. 637 00:32:58,727 --> 00:32:59,978 He would have been the guy 638 00:33:00,020 --> 00:33:01,730 {\an8}that might have been able to do something. 639 00:33:04,274 --> 00:33:06,693 {\an8}The number three guy second. 640 00:33:08,862 --> 00:33:10,822 {\an8}The quiet guy, leave him to last, 641 00:33:10,864 --> 00:33:12,657 because if he seen his friends goin' down, 642 00:33:12,699 --> 00:33:14,284 he would turn to mush. 643 00:33:16,912 --> 00:33:19,331 {\an8}[Al Baker] It's an explosive situation. 644 00:33:20,790 --> 00:33:22,626 {\an8}We want to control that perimeter. 645 00:33:24,336 --> 00:33:25,754 They had the barricades up, 646 00:33:25,795 --> 00:33:28,131 but people are out there yelling and screaming. 647 00:33:28,173 --> 00:33:30,175 [crowd noise] 648 00:33:30,217 --> 00:33:33,053 [7] 649 00:33:33,094 --> 00:33:35,555 [Brian Tuohy] "Shortly after midnight, a melee breaks out. 650 00:33:35,597 --> 00:33:38,475 "between police and a group of 40 youths. 651 00:33:38,517 --> 00:33:41,144 "At least one cop seen clubbing youths. 652 00:33:41,811 --> 00:33:44,773 Three teenagers arrested, one bleeding profusely.โ€ 653 00:33:47,234 --> 00:33:49,778 "These are revolutionary brothers in there, man. 654 00:33:49,819 --> 00:33:52,906 Power to the people," you know, "Yeah, man, yeah!" 655 00:33:52,948 --> 00:33:56,201 โ™ช War... โ™ช 656 00:33:56,910 --> 00:34:01,039 โ™ช Is coming โ™ช 657 00:34:01,623 --> 00:34:04,960 J.T 658 00:34:05,001 --> 00:34:08,880 โ™ช Can feel it in the air โ™ช 659 00:34:08,922 --> 00:34:11,216 [Shu'aib Raheem] Every time they heard a shot from the store, 660 00:34:11,258 --> 00:34:12,509 they were cheering. 661 00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:15,428 โ€˜Cause we stood up to the police. 662 00:34:15,887 --> 00:34:18,557 [7] 663 00:34:18,598 --> 00:34:20,892 โ™ช Preachers are preachin' โ™ช 664 00:34:21,601 --> 00:34:24,437 [Al Baker] As a commander, you're gonna have to factor in 665 00:34:24,479 --> 00:34:26,898 the crowd reaction if we make entry. 666 00:34:26,940 --> 00:34:29,276 If suspects die, 667 00:34:29,317 --> 00:34:32,445 this thing is gonna end in a fire and brimstone manner. 668 00:34:34,155 --> 00:34:35,782 It's a complete powder keg. 669 00:34:37,492 --> 00:34:38,493 Now what do you do? 670 00:34:42,289 --> 00:34:44,916 Do anything you can to make a conversation. 671 00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:47,210 You must get them to talk. 672 00:34:50,672 --> 00:34:52,257 But they have a problem. 673 00:34:52,299 --> 00:34:54,384 They ripped the phone wires out. 674 00:34:55,135 --> 00:34:56,845 There's no way to talk. 675 00:35:01,516 --> 00:35:05,395 [Shu'aib Raheem] They told us to communicate by flashing lights. 676 00:35:07,814 --> 00:35:10,734 Hit once for "no" and two for "yes." 677 00:35:11,776 --> 00:35:13,778 Are there people inside the store? 678 00:35:13,820 --> 00:35:16,281 Bang, bang. Yes. 679 00:35:16,323 --> 00:35:18,783 Are any of your people hurt and need medical attention? 680 00:35:18,825 --> 00:35:19,826 Yes. 681 00:35:20,994 --> 00:35:23,038 They asked us to release one girl. 682 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,707 We asked Fonnie Buckner. 683 00:35:27,626 --> 00:35:29,586 {\an8}[Alice Buckner] My mother loved to laugh. 684 00:35:30,045 --> 00:35:32,464 {\an8}Vibrant. Full of life. 685 00:35:33,006 --> 00:35:35,634 Get out there, take her classes, go to work every day. 686 00:35:36,801 --> 00:35:39,638 I was shocked when she started buying skirts and dresses. 687 00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:41,389 I'm like, , 8 v "Mom, what's goin' on? 688 00:35:41,431 --> 00:35:42,724 She's like, "Got a promotion." 689 00:35:43,683 --> 00:35:44,726 Mm-hm. 690 00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:50,106 {\an8}For New York Life. She loved that job. 691 00:35:51,149 --> 00:35:52,651 And they were promoting her. 692 00:35:54,277 --> 00:35:56,363 Until this happened to her. 693 00:35:56,404 --> 00:35:57,906 And once this happened, 694 00:35:58,365 --> 00:36:00,367 it was like... 695 00:36:00,408 --> 00:36:02,077 she went into a shell... 696 00:36:04,663 --> 00:36:06,373 [Rosemary Catalano] We were behind the cabinet 697 00:36:06,414 --> 00:36:07,707 in the Boy Scout area. 698 00:36:08,500 --> 00:36:10,043 I felt for her, 699 00:36:10,085 --> 00:36:13,254 so I kind of took on the role to try and keep her calm. 700 00:36:15,048 --> 00:36:17,217 She was crying and shaking 701 00:36:17,258 --> 00:36:19,552 {\an8}and just could not... 702 00:36:20,011 --> 00:36:22,222 {\an8}uh, just could not compose herself. 703 00:36:23,973 --> 00:36:26,351 She was the most afraid. 704 00:36:26,393 --> 00:36:28,144 So just tri-- tried to get her to go. 705 00:36:29,688 --> 00:36:31,314 She refused to go out. 706 00:36:32,649 --> 00:36:34,275 She didn't trust the police. 707 00:36:34,776 --> 00:36:36,111 She wanted to stay with us. 708 00:36:37,862 --> 00:36:40,865 [7] 709 00:36:43,993 --> 00:36:45,203 [man] 710 00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:47,455 {\an8}[Shu'aib Raheem] That's when we sent out 711 00:36:47,497 --> 00:36:48,832 {\an8}one of the people in the store. 712 00:36:50,417 --> 00:36:52,669 Goin' through my mind inside, 713 00:36:53,044 --> 00:36:54,337 man, I've done everything I can 714 00:36:54,379 --> 00:36:55,797 to try to talk to you people, man, 715 00:36:55,839 --> 00:36:56,965 come on, man. 716 00:36:57,716 --> 00:36:59,426 Shit's f-ed up, you know? 717 00:37:00,385 --> 00:37:02,137 Give us a chance to surrender, man. 718 00:37:03,763 --> 00:37:05,765 [clock ticking] 719 00:37:10,061 --> 00:37:11,855 I'm Drew Scott, WXLO News, 720 00:37:11,896 --> 00:37:14,149 with the top stories of the hour. 721 00:37:14,190 --> 00:37:16,568 {\an8}The stand off continues between the cops and robbers 722 00:37:16,609 --> 00:37:17,902 {\an8}at that sporting goods store. 723 00:37:18,862 --> 00:37:20,864 {\an8}[indistinct chatter] 724 00:37:22,323 --> 00:37:25,577 [Harvey Schlossberg] A think tank was formed at the police headquarters 725 00:37:26,244 --> 00:37:28,580 Different agencies. 726 00:37:28,621 --> 00:37:30,165 I was there. 727 00:37:31,541 --> 00:37:33,835 Police tend to be conservative. 728 00:37:34,669 --> 00:37:36,379 Nobody wanted change. 729 00:37:37,130 --> 00:37:39,924 They all believed if you gave me the right gun 730 00:37:39,966 --> 00:37:42,761 with the right bullet, I can put everybody out. 731 00:37:43,970 --> 00:37:46,097 But I don't think it works that easy. 732 00:37:46,890 --> 00:37:48,308 That's a Hollywood thing. 733 00:37:49,350 --> 00:37:51,060 {\an8}[Jack Cambria] Must have been the hardest thing for Harvey 734 00:37:51,102 --> 00:37:52,979 {\an8}to change an ingrained belief system. 735 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,064 These staunch critics. 736 00:37:56,065 --> 00:37:57,317 "Now we're gonna talk? 737 00:37:57,942 --> 00:37:59,444 "To these individuals? 738 00:37:59,486 --> 00:38:00,612 We're not social workers." 739 00:38:02,530 --> 00:38:04,908 The most difficult thing in the world to change is a culture. 740 00:38:06,159 --> 00:38:08,119 [indistinct dialog] 741 00:38:08,161 --> 00:38:09,746 [Al Baker] You take your Pat Murphy. 742 00:38:09,788 --> 00:38:11,289 Notorious book guy. 743 00:38:11,915 --> 00:38:14,042 Liberal, progressive police commissioner. 744 00:38:14,959 --> 00:38:16,920 Are you following his orders? Absolutely. 745 00:38:17,295 --> 00:38:19,130 Do you respect him? No. 746 00:38:19,172 --> 00:38:20,715 Very grateful for that. 747 00:38:20,757 --> 00:38:22,467 [Al Baker] He was hated. He was a bookworm. 748 00:38:22,842 --> 00:38:25,345 Not a warrior from the ranks. 749 00:38:26,554 --> 00:38:28,181 [Al Sheppard] He was a pantywaist. 750 00:38:28,223 --> 00:38:29,516 He had no balls. 751 00:38:29,849 --> 00:38:31,226 All prim and proper. 752 00:38:31,935 --> 00:38:33,561 He's puckering his ass 753 00:38:33,603 --> 00:38:35,271 {\an8}โ€˜cause if something goes down wrong, 754 00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:37,190 {\an8}he's gonna be holding the bag. 755 00:38:38,858 --> 00:38:41,653 [Harvey Schlossberg] I didn't think they would change their attitude. 756 00:38:42,821 --> 00:38:46,074 I truly believe the only reason they called me 757 00:38:46,115 --> 00:38:50,078 was because they realized someone has to be responsible. 758 00:38:51,788 --> 00:38:53,540 If it goes bad, 759 00:38:53,581 --> 00:38:55,083 they're gonna blame Harvey. 760 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,879 But I believed police could actually influence people, 761 00:38:59,921 --> 00:39:01,381 and get them to do things 762 00:39:01,422 --> 00:39:04,467 without bullying and force and threats. 763 00:39:05,635 --> 00:39:07,387 I told 'em what I thought. 764 00:39:09,722 --> 00:39:11,307 [Jack Cambria] The commissioner agreed with him. 765 00:39:12,684 --> 00:39:14,269 We're not a team of assassins. 766 00:39:15,478 --> 00:39:17,021 Harvey succeeded. 767 00:39:18,731 --> 00:39:21,025 [Al Baker] Commissioner Murphy made that decision, 768 00:39:21,067 --> 00:39:24,904 establishing hostage negotiation as the way forward. 769 00:39:26,823 --> 00:39:29,117 [man] Commissioner, can you tell us the sequence of events? 770 00:39:29,158 --> 00:39:31,828 I think Deputy Commissioner Ward, who was closest to that, 771 00:39:31,870 --> 00:39:33,204 could say a word about it. 772 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,082 [indistinct chatter] 773 00:39:40,336 --> 00:39:42,380 All right, the strategy at all times 774 00:39:42,422 --> 00:39:44,841 was to open lines of communication 775 00:39:45,258 --> 00:39:46,676 {\an8}with the people on the inside. 776 00:39:47,677 --> 00:39:49,929 {\an8}I was in the armored personnel carrier. 777 00:39:52,015 --> 00:39:54,601 [Toni Schlossberg] Ben Ward heard Harvey's trainings 778 00:39:55,727 --> 00:39:59,022 {\an8}He would say, "If Harvey says to do it the way, 779 00:39:59,063 --> 00:40:00,481 {\an8}this is what we're going to do. 780 00:40:01,691 --> 00:40:04,277 Harvey would be there to coach. 781 00:40:04,861 --> 00:40:06,863 He would not be the guy on the phone. 782 00:40:07,739 --> 00:40:09,657 He would guide what was happening. 783 00:40:09,949 --> 00:40:11,951 [indistinct chatter] 784 00:40:13,286 --> 00:40:15,288 [police radio chatter] 785 00:40:19,083 --> 00:40:20,710 [phone ringing] 786 00:40:22,295 --> 00:40:24,631 I was home with a young baby. 787 00:40:25,506 --> 00:40:27,383 {\an8}Ben Ward called, 788 00:40:27,425 --> 00:40:29,761 {\an8}asked would I come out to Brooklyn. 789 00:40:30,345 --> 00:40:33,014 I was floored the police wanted me, 790 00:40:33,056 --> 00:40:34,891 their enemy, to help. 791 00:40:36,225 --> 00:40:39,228 {\an8}I'm a lawyer for people who are fighting the state. 792 00:40:40,396 --> 00:40:42,899 {\an8}I had just finished the Panther 21 case, 793 00:40:42,941 --> 00:40:46,903 which had as a main allegation blowing up police precincts. 794 00:40:48,905 --> 00:40:50,323 It was a shock. 795 00:40:51,115 --> 00:40:54,285 But then again, Ben Ward was different. 796 00:40:57,121 --> 00:41:01,292 {\an8}A black man in the middle of all of this race conflict, 797 00:41:01,668 --> 00:41:04,170 {\an8}and he had an understanding of us. 798 00:41:04,212 --> 00:41:05,380 the Panthers. 799 00:41:07,590 --> 00:41:09,676 {\an8}I always had a fond feeling for him. 800 00:41:10,635 --> 00:41:12,053 {\an8}And I think it was mutual. 801 00:41:12,804 --> 00:41:14,806 [indistinct shouting] 802 00:41:22,105 --> 00:41:23,606 [Al Baker] Lefcourt was hated. 803 00:41:23,648 --> 00:41:24,899 {\an8}He was a radical lawyer. 804 00:41:25,608 --> 00:41:26,943 {\an8}Enemy of the police. 805 00:41:27,777 --> 00:41:29,821 {\an8}Why are we kowtowing to these people? 806 00:41:31,114 --> 00:41:32,532 {\an8}[Al Sheppard] Friggin' outraged. 807 00:41:32,573 --> 00:41:35,159 Allowing the attorney to come in and kiss their ass, 808 00:41:35,201 --> 00:41:36,744 and "I'm gonna represent you," you know, 809 00:41:36,786 --> 00:41:38,955 and-- and everything's gonna be hunky-dory, 810 00:41:38,997 --> 00:41:40,206 this'll be okay. 811 00:41:41,958 --> 00:41:43,584 [Gerald Lefcourt] They asked whether we could 812 00:41:43,626 --> 00:41:45,628 get them to pick up a walkie-talkie. 813 00:41:45,962 --> 00:41:47,422 [indistinct radio chatter] 814 00:41:47,463 --> 00:41:49,841 [man] Easy. Easy. Easy. 815 00:41:51,676 --> 00:41:53,678 {\an8}[man on bullhorn] 816 00:41:57,140 --> 00:41:59,142 {\an8}[gunshots] 817 00:42:00,935 --> 00:42:02,520 -[man] Okay-- -[gunshots] 818 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,108 [gunshots continue] 819 00:42:09,444 --> 00:42:11,195 Now they want to talk. 820 00:42:11,237 --> 00:42:13,906 They puttin' these strange people on the speaker. 821 00:42:14,282 --> 00:42:17,285 We weren't in a speakin' mood because they were in a tank. 822 00:42:18,786 --> 00:42:21,539 I could not believe I was being fired upon. 823 00:42:52,278 --> 00:42:53,488 [Gerald Lefcourt] Nothing. 824 00:42:57,450 --> 00:42:59,452 [indistinct chatter] 825 00:43:01,704 --> 00:43:04,707 [7] 826 00:43:08,377 --> 00:43:10,963 When I went outside to get the walkie-talkie, 827 00:43:11,005 --> 00:43:13,424 {\an8}I see more cops than I've ever seen in my life. 828 00:43:14,634 --> 00:43:17,178 {\an8}I see people all on the side streets. 829 00:43:17,220 --> 00:43:19,222 [indistinct chatter] 830 00:43:21,474 --> 00:43:23,059 As soon as I walked out the door I knew, 831 00:43:23,101 --> 00:43:25,645 I could have waltzed out of the store. 832 00:43:25,686 --> 00:43:26,896 Escaped. 833 00:43:30,691 --> 00:43:31,776 I thought about it. 834 00:43:32,693 --> 00:43:34,278 I got a family. 835 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:35,363 Wife. 836 00:43:35,905 --> 00:43:37,490 I thought about my daughter. 837 00:43:41,202 --> 00:43:42,995 It's hard to figure. 838 00:43:43,037 --> 00:43:44,997 Especially if you ran away and people got killed. 839 00:43:50,628 --> 00:43:52,463 Then you gotta live with that afterwards. 840 00:43:53,381 --> 00:43:56,134 They said, "Everybody except for Rosemary was a minority." 841 00:43:56,884 --> 00:43:58,136 I says, "No, no, no, no. 842 00:43:58,761 --> 00:44:01,013 "What everybody in this store was was a human being. 843 00:44:04,892 --> 00:44:06,811 I'm not abandoning a human being." 844 00:44:09,230 --> 00:44:11,274 [Shu'aib Raheem] The walkie-talkie was broken. 845 00:44:11,858 --> 00:44:13,860 I guess them throwing it broke it. 846 00:44:14,318 --> 00:44:15,778 And we threw it back out. 847 00:44:17,488 --> 00:44:19,657 [man on radio] Everybody stand pat. Everybody stand pat. 848 00:44:21,993 --> 00:44:23,703 Whatever devices we brought in, 849 00:44:23,744 --> 00:44:27,456 whatever convincing we tried to do to get them to talk, 850 00:44:28,374 --> 00:44:30,626 none of it was productive. 851 00:44:33,337 --> 00:44:35,882 I don't think we had any idea who these guys were. 852 00:44:37,216 --> 00:44:38,718 Why they were in there. 853 00:44:45,558 --> 00:44:48,561 [7] 854 00:44:52,773 --> 00:44:55,151 [Shu'aib Raheem] Growing up here in Brownsville, in Brooklyn, 855 00:44:55,193 --> 00:44:58,362 I remember eating ketchup sandwiches and drinking sugar water. 856 00:45:01,490 --> 00:45:02,742 We were struggling. 857 00:45:03,075 --> 00:45:05,244 There were five kids in the house with Mom and Dad. 858 00:45:05,578 --> 00:45:07,997 You got a lot of table pimps. 859 00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:10,583 We call 'em crumb snatchers, we were all crumb snatchers. 860 00:45:10,625 --> 00:45:12,919 So there was all-- We was always hungry. 861 00:45:14,629 --> 00:45:16,088 {\an8}Your first love is Mom. 862 00:45:16,923 --> 00:45:19,008 {\an8}She was like a mentor, a teacher. 863 00:45:21,969 --> 00:45:23,721 {\an8}My father was my hero. 864 00:45:24,931 --> 00:45:26,307 I wanted to be just like him. 865 00:45:30,269 --> 00:45:33,439 {\an8}And then one day I discovered that he was not my father. 866 00:45:34,690 --> 00:45:36,317 {\an8}Just... 867 00:45:36,359 --> 00:45:39,195 {\an8}sent my self-esteem into a tailspin. 868 00:45:42,406 --> 00:45:45,660 Began even doubting that my mom was even my mom. 869 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,663 {\an8}I said, "What other lies have y'all told me? 870 00:45:50,414 --> 00:45:51,457 {\an8}Who am I? 871 00:45:53,751 --> 00:45:55,795 Trust is a big, big thing. 872 00:45:56,254 --> 00:45:59,215 I would have these nightmares about falling. 873 00:46:00,675 --> 00:46:03,511 I was searching. Oh, my God, I was searching for 874 00:46:03,552 --> 00:46:05,304 some sense in the world. 875 00:46:06,722 --> 00:46:08,933 I started drinking when I was about 11 years old. 876 00:46:09,475 --> 00:46:13,187 My 16th birthday, I drank myself into a coma. 877 00:46:17,316 --> 00:46:19,610 I had... 878 00:46:19,652 --> 00:46:22,113 actually contemplated suicide before then 879 00:46:22,154 --> 00:46:25,533 because my life was-- had bottomed out. 880 00:46:26,993 --> 00:46:28,869 I was, uh, lost. 881 00:46:29,745 --> 00:46:31,664 For somebody to take hostages, 882 00:46:31,706 --> 00:46:35,001 they're in either psychological or emotional pain. 883 00:46:35,751 --> 00:46:39,130 I'm absolutely curious about who the gunman is, 884 00:46:39,171 --> 00:46:41,799 and I'm starting to look for those kind of clues. 885 00:46:43,759 --> 00:46:46,053 I'm there to listen and empathize. 886 00:46:46,095 --> 00:46:48,389 I'm his little Jiminy Cricket. 887 00:46:48,931 --> 00:46:50,558 I'm his little conscience. 888 00:46:53,144 --> 00:46:55,062 [Shu'aib Raheem] I started reading the Koran. 889 00:46:55,730 --> 00:46:59,066 When I took my shahada with the Sunni community, 890 00:46:59,859 --> 00:47:01,944 I cried tears of joy. 891 00:47:03,946 --> 00:47:06,866 Like looking for a long lost friend, 892 00:47:06,907 --> 00:47:08,367 and finally meeting him. 893 00:47:09,452 --> 00:47:11,037 Oh, God, there you are. 894 00:47:13,914 --> 00:47:16,334 It made me feel relieved. 895 00:47:16,375 --> 00:47:17,543 Free. 896 00:47:18,836 --> 00:47:19,879 Sane. 897 00:47:20,504 --> 00:47:22,214 For the first time in my life. 898 00:47:22,673 --> 00:47:25,343 Life had meaning. The world had meaning. 899 00:47:25,384 --> 00:47:27,345 โ™ช Yeah, yeah, yeah โ™ช 900 00:47:28,054 --> 00:47:30,014 โ™ช Yeah โ™ช 901 00:47:30,848 --> 00:47:34,101 Soon, my life was in danger because of my faith. 902 00:47:35,353 --> 00:47:37,271 The Nation of Islam. 903 00:47:37,730 --> 00:47:39,482 {\an8}We were deadly enemies. 904 00:47:39,523 --> 00:47:41,859 {\an8}โ™ช Don't mess with people โ™ช 905 00:47:42,485 --> 00:47:45,112 There's nothing Islamic about The Nation. 906 00:47:45,154 --> 00:47:48,449 โ™ช Those other folks stand and chant... โ™ช 907 00:47:48,824 --> 00:47:50,618 They believe that the Black Man is from 908 00:47:50,659 --> 00:47:52,787 the Lost and Found Nation of Shabazz, 909 00:47:53,496 --> 00:47:54,997 the white man is the devil. 910 00:47:55,039 --> 00:47:56,791 โ™ช Ain't no lie โ™ช 911 00:47:56,832 --> 00:47:59,085 This invented mythology. 912 00:47:59,126 --> 00:48:01,003 โ™ช Yeah โ™ช 913 00:48:01,045 --> 00:48:02,505 They believe every single word, 914 00:48:02,546 --> 00:48:04,382 and some of them would kill for it. 915 00:48:06,217 --> 00:48:09,512 Any time you question their claims, 916 00:48:09,845 --> 00:48:11,722 you are met with threats. 917 00:48:12,390 --> 00:48:14,600 We was having confrontations all over the city. 918 00:48:15,643 --> 00:48:17,019 Assaults, 919 00:48:17,061 --> 00:48:19,438 firebombing in the mosque up in Harlem. 920 00:48:20,064 --> 00:48:22,650 One of them tried to proselytize me. 921 00:48:23,317 --> 00:48:25,111 I say, "You say the white man is the devil?" 922 00:48:26,070 --> 00:48:27,530 "That's right, Black man." 923 00:48:28,155 --> 00:48:32,743 I said, "But the man who you worship as Allah, 924 00:48:32,785 --> 00:48:35,621 {\an8}"his name is Wallace Fard Mohammed. 925 00:48:36,038 --> 00:48:37,248 {\an8}"He's a white man. 926 00:48:37,706 --> 00:48:39,291 "And if the white man is the devil, 927 00:48:39,333 --> 00:48:41,001 that means you're a devil-worshiper." 928 00:48:41,335 --> 00:48:43,754 Oh, man, he got furious. 929 00:48:43,796 --> 00:48:45,881 "They'll cut out your tongue for that, brother.โ€ 930 00:48:49,218 --> 00:48:52,555 Matter of days, he came to my house 931 00:48:52,596 --> 00:48:54,557 with about four other men. 932 00:48:56,642 --> 00:48:58,269 "We just wanna talk to you, brother." 933 00:49:00,729 --> 00:49:02,398 These are the soldiers. 934 00:49:04,275 --> 00:49:05,526 It became clear to me 935 00:49:05,568 --> 00:49:07,820 they were gonna really hurt me really bad. 936 00:49:12,158 --> 00:49:14,118 And I applied for a gun permit. 937 00:49:14,994 --> 00:49:16,412 The desk sergeant, he says, 938 00:49:16,454 --> 00:49:18,539 "You know we're gonna probably turn it down anyway. 939 00:49:18,581 --> 00:49:19,707 You don't really need a gun.โ€ 940 00:49:20,791 --> 00:49:23,335 "You know, we're Muslims and we're Sunni, 941 00:49:23,377 --> 00:49:25,629 and Sunni, I--" you know, and they was like laughing, 942 00:49:25,671 --> 00:49:28,090 "What's the difference? They all Muslims.โ€ 943 00:49:28,966 --> 00:49:30,509 Who cares? 944 00:49:30,551 --> 00:49:32,845 You know, don't confuse me with someone who gives a crap. 945 00:49:33,137 --> 00:49:35,181 You know? Okay, so you're a Sunni 946 00:49:35,222 --> 00:49:36,891 and you're Jihadist, 947 00:49:36,932 --> 00:49:38,934 and you got this cause, that cause. 948 00:49:40,186 --> 00:49:43,189 We weren't certain of who these Black Muslims were 949 00:49:43,230 --> 00:49:45,858 with these skull caps and these flowing robes. 950 00:49:46,817 --> 00:49:47,985 We didn't trust them. 951 00:49:48,777 --> 00:49:50,946 We knew that they didn't trust us. 952 00:49:53,282 --> 00:49:55,242 [Shu'aib Raheem] My wife hated guns. 953 00:49:55,784 --> 00:49:57,661 I purchased a gun anyway. 954 00:49:58,245 --> 00:50:00,080 But I said, "You have to learn how to use this. 955 00:50:00,122 --> 00:50:01,790 You never know, you may need it." 956 00:50:03,626 --> 00:50:07,713 When criticism was leveled against The Nation of Islam, 957 00:50:07,755 --> 00:50:10,132 they reacted in some violent ways. 958 00:50:10,174 --> 00:50:13,302 They broke into his apartment some kind of way. 959 00:50:14,428 --> 00:50:17,139 His wife was in one of the rooms. 960 00:50:20,226 --> 00:50:22,144 [Shu'aib Raheem] She was in the bed, under the covers. 961 00:50:22,186 --> 00:50:25,898 They lifted the window up, stepped into the bedroom. 962 00:50:26,941 --> 00:50:29,401 She jumped up and pointed at him and just started shootin', 963 00:50:29,443 --> 00:50:31,111 and he escaped out the window. 964 00:50:31,153 --> 00:50:34,156 [7] 965 00:50:36,784 --> 00:50:38,077 Oh, God. 966 00:50:39,245 --> 00:50:40,955 She was never the same after that. 967 00:50:44,291 --> 00:50:46,669 As soon as I came home, I called the police. 968 00:50:47,002 --> 00:50:50,756 It took them two days to come to my house. 969 00:50:53,926 --> 00:50:55,928 I asked for a 24 hour guard. 970 00:50:57,429 --> 00:50:59,765 For Black people? [chuckles] 971 00:51:00,516 --> 00:51:02,851 The police didn't care about us. 972 00:51:03,185 --> 00:51:05,479 We never discriminated against anybody. 973 00:51:05,521 --> 00:51:08,857 I mean, uh, I-- I can't tell you how many-- 974 00:51:08,899 --> 00:51:12,611 how many Black people lives I saved. 975 00:51:12,653 --> 00:51:17,449 I think we over-- over-define racism 976 00:51:17,491 --> 00:51:21,120 as, uh, something bad, 977 00:51:21,161 --> 00:51:23,789 when in reality, 978 00:51:24,331 --> 00:51:26,250 we want to be with our own kind. 979 00:51:27,293 --> 00:51:29,086 Yeah, you had the slavery, 980 00:51:29,128 --> 00:51:31,463 but think of how great America is. 981 00:51:32,673 --> 00:51:34,049 What did I ever do wrong? 982 00:51:34,091 --> 00:51:36,969 I-- I wasn't responsible for slavery or racism 983 00:51:38,721 --> 00:51:41,056 The only way we're gonna end the racism 984 00:51:41,098 --> 00:51:42,975 is let people decide for themselves 985 00:51:43,017 --> 00:51:44,435 who they want to be with. 986 00:51:47,313 --> 00:51:50,107 [Al Sheppard] Some cops became really, like, anti-Black, 987 00:51:50,149 --> 00:51:53,277 but, you know, it was more of an occupying army 988 00:51:53,319 --> 00:51:54,612 than it was of anything else. 989 00:51:55,237 --> 00:51:57,281 An army of occupation of the ghetto, you know? 990 00:51:57,865 --> 00:51:59,908 And that's been through the ages. 991 00:52:00,868 --> 00:52:03,162 The Constitution was flushed down the toilet. 992 00:52:05,414 --> 00:52:08,292 Policing nowadays, some of them never have been around Black people. 993 00:52:09,043 --> 00:52:10,544 Everybody is a SWAT member, 994 00:52:10,836 --> 00:52:13,088 they have no communication with the people on the street. 995 00:52:13,130 --> 00:52:15,924 They just go by in these smoked out windows and-- 996 00:52:15,966 --> 00:52:17,259 More like a Gestapo. 997 00:52:17,843 --> 00:52:20,137 You know, if you can't get to know the people, 998 00:52:20,179 --> 00:52:21,722 that's not effective policing. 999 00:52:22,222 --> 00:52:25,893 [7] 1000 00:52:25,934 --> 00:52:27,561 [Walter Cronkite] Here in Washington this evening, 1001 00:52:27,603 --> 00:52:30,522 six persons reported killed in a wave of violence 1002 00:52:30,564 --> 00:52:32,316 including shooting at a home 1003 00:52:32,358 --> 00:52:34,193 {\an8}owned by Kareem Abdul-Jabar, 1004 00:52:34,234 --> 00:52:36,445 {\an8}the pro basketball star. 1005 00:52:36,487 --> 00:52:38,364 {\an8}[reporter] Two adults and a child shot, 1006 00:52:38,405 --> 00:52:40,783 four children drowned in a bathtub. 1007 00:52:40,824 --> 00:52:43,619 Two other adults, both women, shot in the head survived. 1008 00:52:46,914 --> 00:52:49,041 [Dawud Rahman] The Nation of Islam actually killed 1009 00:52:49,083 --> 00:52:50,959 a family of Sunni Muslims. 1010 00:52:52,378 --> 00:52:54,088 Fear. Panic. 1011 00:52:57,049 --> 00:52:59,385 It's the most grotesque-- 1012 00:52:59,927 --> 00:53:02,388 I mean, despic-- I mean, the-- the news. 1013 00:53:02,971 --> 00:53:05,265 They shot a two-year-old baby in the head. 1014 00:53:06,517 --> 00:53:09,603 That was the straw that broke the camel's back. 1015 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,235 Dawud and Salih, 1016 00:53:16,276 --> 00:53:18,070 we saw what happened on the news. 1017 00:53:19,655 --> 00:53:21,657 I had one gun with three bullets. 1018 00:53:21,699 --> 00:53:23,617 [chuckles] 1019 00:53:24,785 --> 00:53:26,578 .25 automatic. 1020 00:53:27,037 --> 00:53:29,873 I wanted a shotgun, and ammo. 1021 00:53:31,917 --> 00:53:35,379 To protect out families and to stop these maniacs. 1022 00:53:37,256 --> 00:53:39,466 That was a terrible decision. 1023 00:53:40,259 --> 00:53:41,885 But... 1024 00:53:44,221 --> 00:53:46,515 Believe it or not, you researched it a little bit more, 1025 00:53:46,557 --> 00:53:48,475 they wanted five guns. 1026 00:53:48,892 --> 00:53:51,520 They could have driven to Nassau County. 1027 00:53:53,063 --> 00:53:54,481 The first one, the leader, 1028 00:53:54,523 --> 00:53:57,109 didn't have a-- a criminal record. 1029 00:53:57,401 --> 00:53:59,570 He could have bought them legally. 1030 00:54:00,988 --> 00:54:02,990 [clock ticking] 1031 00:54:05,826 --> 00:54:07,828 [traffic noise] 1032 00:54:10,289 --> 00:54:12,458 [man on radio] Temperature 27 degrees in Midtown. 1033 00:54:12,499 --> 00:54:14,960 On the scene, Tom Foty reports. 1034 00:54:15,002 --> 00:54:16,587 [Tom Foty] The standoff continues 1035 00:54:16,628 --> 00:54:18,297 in an atmosphere of uneasy quiet. 1036 00:54:18,338 --> 00:54:21,383 One of the gunmen lies wounded and in critical condition. 1037 00:54:21,425 --> 00:54:23,844 The man refuses all police offers of aid, 1038 00:54:23,886 --> 00:54:25,929 and the consensus is that if he dies 1039 00:54:25,971 --> 00:54:28,015 something, what, nobody will speculate, 1040 00:54:28,056 --> 00:54:29,099 will happen. 1041 00:54:29,725 --> 00:54:31,268 [indistinct radio chatter] 1042 00:54:35,147 --> 00:54:36,648 Mussidiq was thirsty. 1043 00:54:36,690 --> 00:54:38,567 He kept sayin', "Oh, give me water." 1044 00:54:38,609 --> 00:54:40,903 And Riccio said, "Don't give him water. 1045 00:54:40,944 --> 00:54:42,070 "That's the worst thing you do 1046 00:54:42,112 --> 00:54:43,614 with a gunshot wound to the stomach.โ€ 1047 00:54:45,699 --> 00:54:49,203 Then when he started spitting up green bile fluid, 1048 00:54:49,244 --> 00:54:51,288 {\an8}that mean his bowel had been ruptured. 1049 00:54:51,830 --> 00:54:53,999 {\an8}And then he was in and out of consciousness. 1050 00:54:54,958 --> 00:54:56,335 W{\an8}e gotta get him outta here. 1051 00:54:57,795 --> 00:55:00,714 If they really are attached to their comrade, 1052 00:55:00,756 --> 00:55:03,383 then they're gonna come out to give him a chance to live. 1053 00:55:05,886 --> 00:55:08,764 That was the only bargaining chip that we had. 1054 00:55:11,517 --> 00:55:14,436 [7] 1055 00:55:15,979 --> 00:55:18,232 The real difficult part is waiting. 1056 00:55:23,153 --> 00:55:24,655 [Brian Tuohy] You're just sittin' back waiting. 1057 00:55:25,113 --> 00:55:27,491 Just biding time with nothing getting done. 1058 00:55:27,533 --> 00:55:29,451 {\an8}You feel useless. 1059 00:55:31,662 --> 00:55:34,122 {\an8}Officers think we have to be strong. 1060 00:55:34,164 --> 00:55:35,582 Supermen. 1061 00:55:36,583 --> 00:55:38,126 You're expected to take action. 1062 00:55:39,127 --> 00:55:41,213 But sometimes, the best thing to do is nothing at all. 1063 00:55:41,630 --> 00:55:43,090 Let emotions wind down. 1064 00:55:43,715 --> 00:55:44,925 Those are Harvey's teachings. 1065 00:55:45,801 --> 00:55:48,053 He calls it dynamic inactivity. 1066 00:55:49,429 --> 00:55:52,432 Well, doing nothing is certainly doing something, 1067 00:55:52,474 --> 00:55:53,600 that's for sure. 1068 00:55:53,976 --> 00:55:55,978 [indistinct radio chatter] 1069 00:56:01,066 --> 00:56:03,068 {\an8}[man on radio] 1070 00:56:15,289 --> 00:56:16,999 {\an8}[Harvey Schlossberg] Around noon time, 1071 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,167 another hostage was released 1072 00:56:19,209 --> 00:56:20,919 to trade for a doctor. 1073 00:56:22,546 --> 00:56:24,673 That's what I look for in a hostage taker, 1074 00:56:24,715 --> 00:56:26,675 that moment of hesitation. 1075 00:56:29,219 --> 00:56:30,304 They're finished. 1076 00:56:31,054 --> 00:56:32,639 I've got them. They're mine. 1077 00:56:35,017 --> 00:56:36,393 Big breakthrough. 1078 00:56:36,435 --> 00:56:38,228 This could get them to surrender. 1079 00:56:41,231 --> 00:56:43,483 This community doctor, 1080 00:56:43,525 --> 00:56:45,903 he was told, "You stand a chance of being killed. 1081 00:56:47,988 --> 00:56:50,073 {\an8}I give a lot of credit to the nurse. 1082 00:56:50,908 --> 00:56:51,909 {\an8}That came with him. 1083 00:56:52,701 --> 00:56:53,911 {\an8}She was very brave. 1084 00:56:55,412 --> 00:56:57,623 I thought she was sent in there to distract us 1085 00:56:57,664 --> 00:56:59,249 the way she was dressed. 1086 00:56:59,708 --> 00:57:01,668 She was distracting, no doubt. 1087 00:57:01,710 --> 00:57:02,753 Whoa! 1088 00:57:03,712 --> 00:57:05,255 "Volumptuous.โ€ 1089 00:57:05,839 --> 00:57:08,216 We said, "Oh, no, you can't come in here." 1090 00:57:09,176 --> 00:57:11,428 We sent her back out to change clothes. 1091 00:57:13,305 --> 00:57:15,933 The doctor, we frisked him. 1092 00:57:16,350 --> 00:57:18,018 He didn't have any weapons on him. 1093 00:57:19,019 --> 00:57:22,064 So then we took him to see Mussidiq. 1094 00:57:23,899 --> 00:57:24,942 He was scared. 1095 00:57:25,943 --> 00:57:27,402 They held him at gunpoint. 1096 00:57:28,987 --> 00:57:31,573 They didn't believe that he was truly a physician. 1097 00:57:33,700 --> 00:57:35,661 [Shu'aib Raheem] He gave him a painkiller. 1098 00:57:35,953 --> 00:57:37,913 Hooked up a makeshift fluid rack 1099 00:57:37,955 --> 00:57:40,123 to hold the saline solution. 1100 00:57:40,165 --> 00:57:41,416 They brought the phone in. 1101 00:57:42,167 --> 00:57:43,293 A direct line. 1102 00:57:44,753 --> 00:57:47,130 We're trying to figure out a way to end this thing. 1103 00:57:48,173 --> 00:57:50,425 [Al Baker] Getting a phone in to any hostage taker 1104 00:57:50,467 --> 00:57:52,094 is major breakthrough. 1105 00:57:52,678 --> 00:57:54,221 Now you're starting to negotiate. 1106 00:57:55,889 --> 00:57:57,766 [Harvey Schlossberg] What I'm tryin' to do is 1107 00:57:57,808 --> 00:58:00,435 to find out what this guy really needs. 1108 00:58:01,144 --> 00:58:03,605 I want you to recognize I'm a person. 1109 00:58:03,939 --> 00:58:06,024 I need love. I need help. 1110 00:58:07,901 --> 00:58:10,946 Freud believed the solution was inside the person. 1111 00:58:15,784 --> 00:58:17,327 Well, obviously, 1112 00:58:17,869 --> 00:58:19,997 I wanted to talk to the police. 1113 00:58:21,248 --> 00:58:23,291 Conflicted as I was. 1114 00:58:24,167 --> 00:58:25,168 Confused. 1115 00:58:26,378 --> 00:58:27,462 Angry. 1116 00:58:28,422 --> 00:58:29,881 I was looking for a way out. 1117 00:58:33,301 --> 00:58:35,345 [Jack Cambria] Harvey taught me that anybody can speak. 1118 00:58:36,471 --> 00:58:38,765 But the real skill in being a negotiator is listening. 1119 00:58:40,934 --> 00:58:42,686 You have to use active listening. 1120 00:58:43,353 --> 00:58:44,521 Emotional labeling. 1121 00:58:45,397 --> 00:58:47,941 Being non-judgmental, non-threatening. 1122 00:58:48,608 --> 00:58:51,028 And when they're yelling and screaming and insulting, 1123 00:58:51,528 --> 00:58:54,114 not accepting that verbal spear that was just thrown at you. 1124 00:58:55,657 --> 00:58:56,700 Deflecting it. 1125 00:58:56,992 --> 00:58:58,368 It'll land on the wall behind you. 1126 00:58:59,119 --> 00:59:00,412 They'll be left unarmed at this point, 1127 00:59:00,454 --> 00:59:01,621 and you'll be left uninjured. 1128 00:59:04,332 --> 00:59:06,460 It helps in every aspect of life. 1129 00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,879 I used to get my best negotiation practice 1130 00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:10,589 when my children were in their adolescence. 1131 00:59:11,089 --> 00:59:12,424 It works at home as well. 1132 00:59:16,511 --> 00:59:18,138 [phone ringing] 1133 00:59:18,847 --> 00:59:20,849 [Shu'aib Raheem] When you pick it up, someone answered right away. 1134 00:59:22,100 --> 00:59:24,227 His tone was very stern. 1135 00:59:25,228 --> 00:59:26,813 I said, "Well, listen, we need some--" 1136 00:59:26,855 --> 00:59:29,816 "You'll get no assurances, you just come out." 1137 00:59:31,026 --> 00:59:33,445 He just wanted me to walk out there and get gunned down. 1138 00:59:34,738 --> 00:59:37,074 He was a complete... 1139 00:59:39,326 --> 00:59:40,952 Excuse my French but forgive me, 1140 00:59:40,994 --> 00:59:42,704 but there's no other description. 1141 00:59:42,746 --> 00:59:43,789 Asshole. 1142 00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:48,543 I stopped talking and hung the phone up. 1143 00:59:50,504 --> 00:59:51,963 We're gonna defend ourself... 1144 00:59:55,050 --> 00:59:56,093 to the end. 1145 00:59:56,134 --> 00:59:59,137 [7] 1146 01:00:19,324 --> 01:00:20,367 [Alice Buckner] It's scary. 1147 01:00:20,867 --> 01:00:22,869 You're crying, you know, your mother's in there. 1148 01:00:22,911 --> 01:00:24,871 {\an8}and the neighbors are talkin', 1149 01:00:24,913 --> 01:00:26,665 {\an8}and people in the hallway, 1150 01:00:26,706 --> 01:00:28,250 {\an8}and people comin' up to check on me. 1151 01:00:28,291 --> 01:00:29,626 Early this evening, 1152 01:00:29,668 --> 01:00:31,795 a third hostage was released by the gunmen. 1153 01:00:31,837 --> 01:00:33,463 [Alice Buckner] They kept saying on the TV 1154 01:00:33,505 --> 01:00:36,883 they have enough ammunition to hold these people for a week, 1155 01:00:36,925 --> 01:00:39,553 and I don't know what's happening at the store. 1156 01:00:40,387 --> 01:00:41,763 My mother's not home. 1157 01:00:43,807 --> 01:00:45,016 And she's not home. 1158 01:00:46,476 --> 01:00:49,479 [7] 1159 01:00:51,606 --> 01:00:53,567 [Dawud Rahman] I was, like, filled with dread. 1160 01:00:55,402 --> 01:00:58,530 I was suggesting that we try and clear up 1161 01:00:58,572 --> 01:01:01,116 {\an8}the-- the mess in the store, you know, 1162 01:01:01,158 --> 01:01:03,034 {\an8}but, uh, that was like 1163 01:01:03,076 --> 01:01:05,954 {\an8}a naive, uh, suggestion, you know, uh... 1164 01:01:07,914 --> 01:01:09,374 [Shu'aib Raheem] Dawud was in shock. 1165 01:01:11,084 --> 01:01:13,336 He had never been exposed to anything like that. 1166 01:01:14,421 --> 01:01:16,173 I can see the fear in his face. 1167 01:01:20,260 --> 01:01:23,471 I was looking at Dawud and Salih, my friends. 1168 01:01:24,222 --> 01:01:27,976 Their lives had been so tragically affected. 1169 01:01:29,644 --> 01:01:32,898 I was in a position to stop it, and I didn't stop it. 1170 01:01:37,194 --> 01:01:39,404 pushed forward and they followed. 1171 01:01:39,905 --> 01:01:42,824 Went along with it. It's not a good feeling. 1172 01:01:42,866 --> 01:01:44,034 Miserable feeling. 1173 01:01:46,661 --> 01:01:49,581 I have basically a shy demeanor. 1174 01:01:49,623 --> 01:01:52,667 I even consider myself like a... 1175 01:01:52,709 --> 01:01:55,837 a self-diagnosed, uh, 1176 01:01:56,171 --> 01:01:59,174 Asperger's-- [chuckles] 1177 01:01:59,216 --> 01:02:01,259 You know, uh, syndrome. 1178 01:02:03,386 --> 01:02:05,222 [Shu'aib Raheem] He was going to Brooklyn College. 1179 01:02:05,513 --> 01:02:07,432 He was a street sketcher. 1180 01:02:08,099 --> 01:02:11,019 He would sketch people's photograph, 1181 01:02:11,061 --> 01:02:12,562 for five, ten dollars. 1182 01:02:12,604 --> 01:02:15,774 With pencil and charcoal. 1183 01:02:17,442 --> 01:02:18,735 That's how good he was. 1184 01:02:18,777 --> 01:02:21,154 He could look at you and just... do it like that. 1185 01:02:21,196 --> 01:02:22,572 And people would pay him for that. 1186 01:02:23,698 --> 01:02:26,952 But what was phenomenal about him was his... 1187 01:02:29,412 --> 01:02:32,165 He could blow that horn. Lord have mercy. Mm! 1188 01:02:32,624 --> 01:02:34,334 He would practice... 1189 01:02:34,376 --> 01:02:36,169 [call to prayer sounding] 1190 01:02:37,963 --> 01:02:40,966 [man chanting] 1191 01:02:47,514 --> 01:02:48,848 [Jerry Riccio] The quiet guy, 1192 01:02:48,890 --> 01:02:50,267 {\an8}he put himself in harm's way. 1193 01:02:51,935 --> 01:02:54,729 {\an8}He sat down next to me with a weight right over his head 1194 01:02:55,772 --> 01:02:57,983 and I could have easily killed him with it. 1195 01:02:58,817 --> 01:03:00,944 I nudged Cleve, I says, 1196 01:03:02,487 --> 01:03:03,947 "I'll put it right in his head." 1197 01:03:05,907 --> 01:03:07,284 He was my gun guy. 1198 01:03:08,368 --> 01:03:09,619 {\an8}Cleve was a good guy. 1199 01:03:10,412 --> 01:03:11,788 {\an8}He had a glass eye. 1200 01:03:12,414 --> 01:03:14,666 He was like a weird look-- especially with that-- 1201 01:03:15,333 --> 01:03:17,377 the glass eye, it wasn't the best-- 1202 01:03:18,003 --> 01:03:20,422 wasn't the best job in the world. 1203 01:03:24,134 --> 01:03:25,760 I was in the service. 1204 01:03:25,802 --> 01:03:27,846 I had a machine gun squad. 1205 01:03:29,556 --> 01:03:32,976 I says, "Who do you think the most dangerous guy in the store is?" 1206 01:03:34,269 --> 01:03:37,105 He says, "Them." I said, "No. Me." 1207 01:03:42,235 --> 01:03:45,322 [Rosemary Catalano] I don't think that they believed they could get out alive. 1208 01:03:46,948 --> 01:03:48,366 It was a total stalemate. 1209 01:03:49,284 --> 01:03:52,037 Botched robbery, killed a police officer. 1210 01:03:54,205 --> 01:03:55,498 It wasn't gonna end there. 1211 01:03:56,833 --> 01:03:58,752 They weren't gonna walk out quietly. 1212 01:04:01,129 --> 01:04:04,174 [Harvey Schlossberg] This is intense hostage negotiation. 1213 01:04:04,799 --> 01:04:06,718 Am I gonna say the wrong thing, 1214 01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,347 and the person who is a mild problem 1215 01:04:10,388 --> 01:04:12,682 all of a sudden becomes a rage. 1216 01:04:13,850 --> 01:04:15,935 God forbid, if somebody gets killed, 1217 01:04:15,977 --> 01:04:17,520 you're gonna blame yourself. 1218 01:04:18,688 --> 01:04:23,026 Harvey is enormously tuned in to emotions. 1219 01:04:23,068 --> 01:04:26,404 whether they be his or the people that are around him. 1220 01:04:27,614 --> 01:04:30,992 He's the product of a very sensitive mother and grandmother. 1221 01:04:31,534 --> 01:04:34,579 His grandmother came from Russia to be safe. 1222 01:04:35,205 --> 01:04:36,831 The pogroms, 1223 01:04:36,873 --> 01:04:39,834 they would surround the Jewish communities and kill people. 1224 01:04:41,294 --> 01:04:43,963 Jews have experienced lots of suffering 1225 01:04:44,005 --> 01:04:45,632 and psychological pain. 1226 01:04:48,051 --> 01:04:50,387 I have a need to make people better. 1227 01:04:51,930 --> 01:04:53,932 That's a crazy need. 1228 01:04:53,973 --> 01:04:56,976 [7] 1229 01:04:59,354 --> 01:05:00,939 [Jerry Riccio] How do you get out of the store? 1230 01:05:01,564 --> 01:05:04,275 Twelve people aren't running down the stairs 1231 01:05:04,317 --> 01:05:05,443 and out the door. 1232 01:05:07,529 --> 01:05:09,322 I took out my pocket knife. 1233 01:05:10,657 --> 01:05:13,868 Watching them, I could keep my arm behind the wall, 1234 01:05:15,620 --> 01:05:17,872 and draw the line with the knife, 1235 01:05:18,415 --> 01:05:22,210 down, across, up, down, across, up. 1236 01:05:23,795 --> 01:05:25,880 The little white dust would fall on the floor, 1237 01:05:25,922 --> 01:05:28,007 I would smooth it out with my foot. 1238 01:05:29,300 --> 01:05:30,385 Took a long time. 1239 01:05:31,803 --> 01:05:33,555 The people that were sitting against the wall, 1240 01:05:33,596 --> 01:05:36,724 terrified, tears. 1241 01:05:38,059 --> 01:05:40,603 I can't tell 'em what my intentions were. 1242 01:05:40,645 --> 01:05:43,314 I didn't want anybody blurting out any information 1243 01:05:43,356 --> 01:05:44,732 out of fear. 1244 01:05:44,774 --> 01:05:46,818 "Let me go and I'll tell you what they're up to. 1245 01:05:46,860 --> 01:05:49,779 He's got a gun. He cut a hole out in the wall.โ€ 1246 01:05:50,738 --> 01:05:52,407 You-- You're nervous. 1247 01:05:55,702 --> 01:05:57,412 The gun is in your waist. 1248 01:05:58,496 --> 01:05:59,873 I don't know what's gonna happen. 1249 01:06:01,416 --> 01:06:03,042 The leader comes over to me. 1250 01:06:03,084 --> 01:06:05,336 I put my hand on the gun. I don't have to take it out, 1251 01:06:05,378 --> 01:06:07,297 I could shoot him right through the coat. 1252 01:06:07,338 --> 01:06:10,049 I went over there and I see some men behind the counter. 1253 01:06:10,592 --> 01:06:12,969 I said, "What the hell are you doin'? Get your ass out of here." 1254 01:06:13,428 --> 01:06:15,513 You know, "Get your butt back on the other side.โ€ 1255 01:06:15,555 --> 01:06:17,098 Riccio was one of โ€˜em, I said, "Man, I told you--" 1256 01:06:17,140 --> 01:06:18,475 He said, "All right, all right, all right. 1257 01:06:18,516 --> 01:06:20,435 It's not that easy to kill anybody. 1258 01:06:21,603 --> 01:06:24,439 And people turn around and say to you, "He's black," this, that. 1259 01:06:24,481 --> 01:06:26,149 It's not easy to kill anybody. 1260 01:06:28,359 --> 01:06:31,321 [7] 1261 01:06:31,362 --> 01:06:33,990 [Shu'aib Raheem] I was layin' down upstairs 1262 01:06:34,032 --> 01:06:37,118 trying to figure out how'd I get in this mess? 1263 01:06:37,952 --> 01:06:39,996 Why did I do this? Why, why, why? 1264 01:06:41,915 --> 01:06:44,459 Takes a lot for a man to say "I'm afraid." 1265 01:06:45,585 --> 01:06:47,128 You know how we are as men. 1266 01:06:47,170 --> 01:06:49,380 Hard enough to even talk about feelings. 1267 01:06:51,716 --> 01:06:54,552 Fear is what drove me every minute I was in there, 1268 01:06:54,969 --> 01:06:56,596 that I was afraid to come out. 1269 01:06:57,180 --> 01:06:59,182 Scared to death of what might happen. 1270 01:06:59,557 --> 01:07:01,684 Fear, fear, fear, you know, it's-- it's-- 1271 01:07:02,101 --> 01:07:03,353 it's crippling. 1272 01:07:06,981 --> 01:07:08,733 A gun don't make you a man. 1273 01:07:10,026 --> 01:07:11,444 At the end of the day, 1274 01:07:11,861 --> 01:07:13,446 doesn't make you safe. 1275 01:07:16,574 --> 01:07:17,992 Don't be afraid. 1276 01:07:22,539 --> 01:07:23,957 [sniffles] 1277 01:07:25,792 --> 01:07:27,544 [Jerry Riccio] The hostages were terrified. 1278 01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,131 The black girl named Fonnie, tears were goin', 1279 01:07:32,173 --> 01:07:33,633 shook her up so badly. 1280 01:07:34,801 --> 01:07:36,886 When I go to get one of the walkie-talkies, 1281 01:07:36,928 --> 01:07:38,596 I'm asking for Kotex. 1282 01:07:38,638 --> 01:07:40,723 Fonnie had gotten her period in the store. 1283 01:07:42,141 --> 01:07:45,353 [7] 1284 01:07:45,395 --> 01:07:49,566 And I really believe that that's when she had her miscarriage 1285 01:07:49,607 --> 01:07:50,984 โ€˜cause she was pregnant. 1286 01:07:54,779 --> 01:07:58,449 That was enough to send it over the edge as far as... 1287 01:07:59,325 --> 01:08:01,077 this baby was not making it. 1288 01:08:01,911 --> 01:08:05,999 Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Lord have mercy. 1289 01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:08,042 [muttering in Arabic] 1290 01:08:09,377 --> 01:08:11,254 I'm so sorry to hear that. 1291 01:08:11,296 --> 01:08:13,256 She had the nervous breakdown. 1292 01:08:14,882 --> 01:08:16,467 Never really came out of it. 1293 01:08:18,177 --> 01:08:19,804 Not sleeping at night. 1294 01:08:19,846 --> 01:08:22,849 Medication is rippin' up your body on the inside. 1295 01:08:22,890 --> 01:08:24,350 You don't want to do anything. 1296 01:08:25,393 --> 01:08:28,479 And you still have a family you need to feed and maintain. 1297 01:08:29,147 --> 01:08:31,232 I'm an only child, just me and her. 1298 01:08:32,900 --> 01:08:35,445 My parents separated right after this happened. 1299 01:08:43,161 --> 01:08:45,872 [Alice Buckner] I feel like I lost both my parents. 1300 01:08:47,665 --> 01:08:49,667 [sniffling] 1301 01:08:57,675 --> 01:09:00,178 They have no idea what they put people through. 1302 01:09:04,098 --> 01:09:07,226 People who are injured and hurt and suffer, 1303 01:09:07,268 --> 01:09:08,686 even oppressed, 1304 01:09:10,313 --> 01:09:13,149 can become blinded by their own hurt, 1305 01:09:13,191 --> 01:09:15,735 and destroy the lives of so many people 1306 01:09:15,777 --> 01:09:17,320 who did you no harm. 1307 01:09:18,738 --> 01:09:20,323 That's the tragedy of it all. 1308 01:09:21,032 --> 01:09:23,785 When the victim becomes that which they fear. 1309 01:09:29,582 --> 01:09:32,585 [7] 1310 01:09:35,380 --> 01:09:37,382 [traffic noise] 1311 01:09:37,965 --> 01:09:39,967 [clock ticking] 1312 01:09:43,930 --> 01:09:45,932 -[gunshot] -[indistinct dialog] 1313 01:09:46,599 --> 01:09:48,017 [gunshot] 1314 01:09:49,686 --> 01:09:52,313 [indistinct chatter] 1315 01:09:53,106 --> 01:09:54,816 [gunshot] 1316 01:09:54,857 --> 01:09:56,859 [police radio chatter] 1317 01:09:57,568 --> 01:09:58,986 [gunshot] 1318 01:09:59,362 --> 01:10:01,364 [indistinct chatter] 1319 01:10:04,784 --> 01:10:06,452 [Brian Tuohy] Four blasts of gunfire. 1320 01:10:06,494 --> 01:10:08,079 Maybe they killed the hostages. 1321 01:10:08,121 --> 01:10:10,164 -[coughing] -Where's your plan? 1322 01:10:10,206 --> 01:10:12,458 What plan do you have now that they're killing the hostages? 1323 01:10:14,711 --> 01:10:16,003 If I was the commanding officer, 1324 01:10:16,045 --> 01:10:17,672 I would have taken action against them. 1325 01:10:18,297 --> 01:10:19,632 Probably with snipers. 1326 01:10:23,010 --> 01:10:24,971 If you don't fight fire with fire, you're never gonna win. 1327 01:10:25,930 --> 01:10:28,933 [7] 1328 01:10:28,975 --> 01:10:30,977 [gunshot] 1329 01:10:32,979 --> 01:10:35,523 Just move one finger, just move a pinkie, 1330 01:10:35,898 --> 01:10:37,942 just give me a reason to kill you, 1331 01:10:37,984 --> 01:10:40,236 and I will do it gladly. 1332 01:10:42,238 --> 01:10:44,866 We go back to the coffee table and laugh about it. 1333 01:10:44,907 --> 01:10:48,661 "We killed a guy. Yeah, Yeah, it had a happy ending. 1334 01:10:48,953 --> 01:10:50,872 And you ended up dead. So, ha, ha." 1335 01:10:52,957 --> 01:10:54,625 [reporter] The situation here in Brooklyn 1336 01:10:54,667 --> 01:10:57,587 has gotten much more tense in the last few moments. 1337 01:10:57,628 --> 01:10:59,964 -[gunshot] - We heard five or six shots 1338 01:11:00,006 --> 01:11:01,924 ring out from the sporting goods store. 1339 01:11:01,966 --> 01:11:03,968 [police radio chatter] 1340 01:11:04,469 --> 01:11:07,472 [7] 1341 01:11:16,564 --> 01:11:18,441 [man on radio] Where are the hostages now? 1342 01:11:20,443 --> 01:11:22,487 The railing that went around the store 1343 01:11:22,528 --> 01:11:23,738 on the second floor, 1344 01:11:24,030 --> 01:11:26,073 they had all the guns lined up. 1345 01:11:26,115 --> 01:11:29,535 They loaded them all so that if anybody came in, 1346 01:11:30,077 --> 01:11:31,954 they wouldn't have to stop to re-load. 1347 01:11:34,540 --> 01:11:37,335 Now the gunmen come upstairs, they brought the hose up, 1348 01:11:38,044 --> 01:11:40,546 He says, "Take off your clothes, we're gonna wash you. 1349 01:11:41,964 --> 01:11:44,842 We're gonna die, you gotta go to Allah clean.โ€ 1350 01:11:47,595 --> 01:11:49,347 Maybe they were gonna kill me. 1351 01:11:50,223 --> 01:11:52,725 Maybe the cops shooting in the store were gonna kill me. 1352 01:11:54,811 --> 01:11:57,230 They don't look at the shape over the desk. 1353 01:11:57,730 --> 01:11:59,440 That's a staircase going up. 1354 01:12:00,483 --> 01:12:02,693 If you put a knife against a sheet rock wall, 1355 01:12:02,735 --> 01:12:04,111 it doesn't make any noise. 1356 01:12:04,821 --> 01:12:06,906 I felt the knife go through. 1357 01:12:08,449 --> 01:12:10,034 And then I pulled the piece out... 1358 01:12:11,953 --> 01:12:13,079 and put it back in. 1359 01:12:14,288 --> 01:12:16,290 We have the escape plan made. 1360 01:12:16,332 --> 01:12:18,334 [indistinct chatter] 1361 01:12:19,043 --> 01:12:20,920 -[man] Whoever's gonna begin-- -All right, I'm gonna begin it, 1362 01:12:20,962 --> 01:12:23,005 {\an8}but I cant begin it because I'm being squeezed. 1363 01:12:23,047 --> 01:12:24,507 {\an8}-Give me a little room. -[man] Move back, please. 1364 01:12:24,841 --> 01:12:26,968 Help out a little bit, will ya? Back up. Come on. 1365 01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:29,053 -Give us a little room. -[man 2] All right. 1366 01:12:29,095 --> 01:12:30,346 [Benjamin Ward] This morning, as you know, 1367 01:12:30,388 --> 01:12:32,014 there were several gunshots fired, 1368 01:12:32,056 --> 01:12:34,141 and they informed us that they merely wanted to let us to know 1369 01:12:34,183 --> 01:12:35,768 that they were still there. 1370 01:12:35,810 --> 01:12:37,311 We immediately spoke to them on the phone and we told them 1371 01:12:37,353 --> 01:12:38,354 we knew that they were there. 1372 01:12:39,397 --> 01:12:42,567 [man] Have you made any decision as to a time limit? 1373 01:12:42,608 --> 01:12:45,528 I-- I could just say this to you, we have plenty of time, 1374 01:12:45,570 --> 01:12:47,822 and we have not made any decisions on time. 1375 01:12:47,864 --> 01:12:49,866 [indistinct chatter] 1376 01:12:51,534 --> 01:12:54,495 [Al Baker] The Harvey school of psychology is 1377 01:12:54,912 --> 01:12:57,874 you're lookin' to find that key that opens that lock. 1378 01:12:57,915 --> 01:12:59,250 to that guy's head. 1379 01:12:59,876 --> 01:13:01,878 [indistinct bullhorn announcement] 1380 01:13:09,343 --> 01:13:10,887 My mother? 1381 01:13:11,429 --> 01:13:13,431 [continues indistinctly] 1382 01:13:18,185 --> 01:13:22,481 "Son, Ib'n, salaam alaikum, baby, come out. 1383 01:13:22,940 --> 01:13:25,026 It's gonna be okay, they're not gonna hurt you." 1384 01:13:26,277 --> 01:13:28,279 [Gloria Robinson continues indistinctly] 1385 01:13:29,196 --> 01:13:31,407 [Harvey Schlossberg] Family. I usually tell-- 1386 01:13:31,449 --> 01:13:32,575 I-- Don't bring them in. 1387 01:13:33,159 --> 01:13:35,202 If they had a healthy family, 1388 01:13:35,244 --> 01:13:36,704 they wouldn't be in here. 1389 01:13:40,333 --> 01:13:42,001 [Shu'aib Raheem] I used to have conversations with my mother that 1390 01:13:42,043 --> 01:13:43,085 that was, like, deep. 1391 01:13:43,127 --> 01:13:45,421 She would be up all night reading. 1392 01:13:45,463 --> 01:13:48,090 History, science, philosophy. 1393 01:13:50,176 --> 01:13:52,470 She was like a mentor, a teacher. 1394 01:13:54,180 --> 01:13:55,681 She was fragile. 1395 01:13:56,474 --> 01:13:58,017 She was an alcoholic. 1396 01:13:58,434 --> 01:14:01,020 And I used to get very defensive and angry with her 1397 01:14:01,062 --> 01:14:03,147 when she was criticizing me. 1398 01:14:03,189 --> 01:14:04,649 I thought she was naive. 1399 01:14:04,690 --> 01:14:07,068 They were just trying to use her to get me to come out. 1400 01:14:08,694 --> 01:14:09,779 To get shot. 1401 01:14:12,782 --> 01:14:15,159 When I fired the shots at the tank, she knew. 1402 01:14:15,201 --> 01:14:17,286 She didn't try to talk to me anymore. 1403 01:14:25,586 --> 01:14:28,547 She was so-- I broke her heart, Lord have mercy. 1404 01:14:29,757 --> 01:14:32,760 [7] 1405 01:14:33,844 --> 01:14:36,389 We started hearing them-- [buzzing] 1406 01:14:36,430 --> 01:14:38,307 They comin' through the wall in the basement 1407 01:14:38,349 --> 01:14:40,393 while they talking 1408 01:14:40,434 --> 01:14:42,103 so nice on the phone. 1409 01:14:43,521 --> 01:14:46,190 The radio told us that the police was on the roof. 1410 01:14:46,732 --> 01:14:48,401 The place was surrounded. 1411 01:14:49,318 --> 01:14:51,195 We heard this big helicopter. 1412 01:14:53,572 --> 01:14:55,199 Hundreds of police. 1413 01:14:55,241 --> 01:14:57,660 They got this special team they put together, 1414 01:14:57,702 --> 01:14:59,495 they gettin' ready to come in and storm the store, 1415 01:14:59,537 --> 01:15:01,789 and you givin' me these niceties over the phone? 1416 01:15:02,164 --> 01:15:03,416 I i 3 an 1417 01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:09,755 [indistinct chatter] 1418 01:15:09,797 --> 01:15:11,632 [man on bullhorn] They say that they are gonna die in that building 1419 01:15:11,674 --> 01:15:13,217 and they want us to come in and get them. 1420 01:15:13,968 --> 01:15:16,971 [7] 1421 01:15:19,515 --> 01:15:21,726 [Al Baker] The perps certainly had evil intent. 1422 01:15:23,227 --> 01:15:25,771 Violence. Hate. 1423 01:15:26,731 --> 01:15:28,024 Kill the hostages. 1424 01:15:29,358 --> 01:15:31,152 Go out in a blaze of glory. 1425 01:15:31,902 --> 01:15:34,030 We didn't want to go out in a blaze of glory. 1426 01:15:34,989 --> 01:15:36,699 But, hell, if you're gonna execute me... 1427 01:15:38,576 --> 01:15:39,910 and I got all these guns in here, 1428 01:15:39,952 --> 01:15:41,328 what do you think I'm gonna do? 1429 01:15:42,371 --> 01:15:43,914 I'm gonna defend myself. 1430 01:15:49,003 --> 01:15:50,504 [whistle] 1431 01:15:50,546 --> 01:15:51,922 [Jerry Riccio] All of a sudden, 1432 01:15:51,964 --> 01:15:54,300 I heard what appeared to be a whistle. 1433 01:15:54,717 --> 01:15:56,260 [whistle] 1434 01:15:59,221 --> 01:16:00,806 This is it, they're gettin' ready to come in. 1435 01:16:00,848 --> 01:16:02,975 This is it. We just kept sayin', "This is it, this is it." 1436 01:16:07,521 --> 01:16:11,067 We went downstairs, listened to the basement door. 1437 01:16:12,109 --> 01:16:14,153 [Jerry Riccio] They all ran down the stairs, 1438 01:16:14,195 --> 01:16:15,654 left us alone. 1439 01:16:16,947 --> 01:16:19,867 Well... that's the chance you gotta take. 1440 01:16:22,369 --> 01:16:23,954 I gave Cleve my gun. 1441 01:16:25,372 --> 01:16:27,666 I told him everybody had to go through the hole. 1442 01:16:29,335 --> 01:16:31,837 [Alice Buckner] My mom was cryin', bad. 1443 01:16:32,129 --> 01:16:34,090 Cleve took one look at her and said, 1444 01:16:34,131 --> 01:16:36,592 "If I don't help her, she's gonna get us killed." 1445 01:16:38,010 --> 01:16:40,179 Pull yourself together, get your tissue, 1446 01:16:40,805 --> 01:16:42,223 stop cryin', 1447 01:16:42,723 --> 01:16:45,392 and let's go so we can get out of here. 1448 01:16:48,187 --> 01:16:49,939 [Rosemary Catalano] The adrenaline's pumpin'. 1449 01:16:49,980 --> 01:16:51,065 Just go. 1450 01:16:51,690 --> 01:16:54,068 There's debris on the stairs, 1451 01:16:54,110 --> 01:16:55,861 and Jerry says to Cleve, 1452 01:16:55,903 --> 01:16:58,155 "I told you to clean the staircase.โ€ 1453 01:16:58,197 --> 01:17:00,199 [laughing] 1454 01:17:03,077 --> 01:17:04,954 [Jerry Riccio] Everybody had to go through the hole. 1455 01:17:04,995 --> 01:17:07,248 "Okay, Cleve. Hold onto the gun.โ€ 1456 01:17:09,542 --> 01:17:12,044 [Al Baker] We have people on the roof to help contain the perimeter. 1457 01:17:13,337 --> 01:17:17,174 We had the Smith & Wesson Model 76 submachine gun. 1458 01:17:18,509 --> 01:17:21,470 If the perps come out blasting at the cops, 1459 01:17:22,346 --> 01:17:23,973 you're gonna have to return fire. 1460 01:17:26,058 --> 01:17:29,228 Hatch opens up, out comes a Black man with a gun, 1461 01:17:29,687 --> 01:17:32,523 and Casey and the team point their guns at him. 1462 01:17:34,942 --> 01:17:37,945 [7] 1463 01:17:38,654 --> 01:17:40,447 Cleve's holding my handgun. 1464 01:17:40,739 --> 01:17:42,616 "There's a handgun comin' up. 1465 01:17:42,950 --> 01:17:45,578 It's mine, I got a permit for it. Don't shoot!" 1466 01:17:46,203 --> 01:17:49,915 Harvey taught it's important for the police officers 1467 01:17:49,957 --> 01:17:52,168 to hold back and not fire, 1468 01:17:52,543 --> 01:17:55,588 because once one officer fires, 1469 01:17:55,629 --> 01:17:57,506 it's really a domino effect. 1470 01:17:58,632 --> 01:18:01,969 Hormones such as testosterone kick into play 1471 01:18:02,261 --> 01:18:04,471 and push men to do things. 1472 01:18:04,805 --> 01:18:06,015 What a disaster. 1473 01:18:07,933 --> 01:18:11,979 Holding your fire is what negotiation is about. 1474 01:18:14,356 --> 01:18:17,860 Now, why that particular guy 1475 01:18:17,902 --> 01:18:20,237 popped open the hatch with a gun in his hand... 1476 01:18:22,114 --> 01:18:23,616 defies my logic. 1477 01:18:24,617 --> 01:18:26,994 And it turns out, he was an escaping hostage. 1478 01:18:27,036 --> 01:18:28,913 Police were able to understand that. 1479 01:18:29,830 --> 01:18:31,749 Damn good weapons restraint. 1480 01:18:32,458 --> 01:18:34,919 A very remarkable escape. 1481 01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:37,963 [7] 1482 01:18:50,267 --> 01:18:53,270 [7] 1483 01:18:54,396 --> 01:18:57,149 We're done. We're finished. We're not hostages anymore. 1484 01:18:57,691 --> 01:19:00,694 [7] 1485 01:19:04,073 --> 01:19:07,326 [reporter] Officers ran the hostages to cars outside... 1486 01:19:07,368 --> 01:19:10,454 There I am. Oh, my gosh. 1487 01:19:10,496 --> 01:19:12,623 [reporter] The hostages broke through the wall 1488 01:19:12,665 --> 01:19:14,500 -and raced to the roof of the store. -Oh, my God. 1489 01:19:14,541 --> 01:19:16,710 The police then got them off the roof, 1490 01:19:16,752 --> 01:19:18,420 and finally took them away. 1491 01:19:23,842 --> 01:19:25,135 Wow. 1492 01:19:30,557 --> 01:19:32,101 [clock ticking] 1493 01:19:32,142 --> 01:19:34,144 [Shu'aib Raheem] I walked over there and it was quiet. 1494 01:19:35,354 --> 01:19:37,856 I walked a little further and I seen this hole, 1495 01:19:37,898 --> 01:19:39,191 and I said, "Oh, sh--" 1496 01:19:39,525 --> 01:19:40,609 Whoo! 1497 01:19:43,612 --> 01:19:45,656 [Al Baker] The suspects lost their collateral. 1498 01:19:46,699 --> 01:19:49,159 That must have been when they realized, 1499 01:19:49,201 --> 01:19:51,161 "We're mince meat now. We're dead.โ€ 1500 01:19:55,499 --> 01:19:58,627 I guess it's all over now, you know? 1501 01:20:01,547 --> 01:20:04,717 Seeing a corpse, I feel like crying. 1502 01:20:05,509 --> 01:20:07,011 It really affects me. 1503 01:20:07,303 --> 01:20:10,222 I think a human life is such a precious gift. 1504 01:20:10,931 --> 01:20:13,225 You seen where the guy was? 1505 01:20:13,559 --> 01:20:15,477 [Harvey Schlossberg] The crowd, they become angry. 1506 01:20:15,519 --> 01:20:16,895 Don't give me all that bullshit. 1507 01:20:16,937 --> 01:20:18,689 [Harvey Schlossberg] "Stay out. Don't kill them." 1508 01:20:19,523 --> 01:20:21,567 The crowd got out of hand. 1509 01:20:21,942 --> 01:20:24,945 [7] 1510 01:20:30,409 --> 01:20:31,702 [reporter] An ugly scene 1511 01:20:31,744 --> 01:20:33,787 in which police are just trying their best 1512 01:20:33,829 --> 01:20:36,790 to keep them out of the area that they have barricaded off. 1513 01:20:36,832 --> 01:20:38,208 In the meantime, 1514 01:20:38,250 --> 01:20:41,337 we have got all kinds of missiles being thrown. 1515 01:20:41,378 --> 01:20:43,714 Probably even bricks but definitely glass 1516 01:20:43,756 --> 01:20:45,674 as hundreds of people are running 1517 01:20:45,716 --> 01:20:47,217 in every which direction. 1518 01:20:48,552 --> 01:20:50,637 [Al Sheppard] Molotov cocktails, bricks, 1519 01:20:50,679 --> 01:20:52,556 they pushed the barricades over. 1520 01:20:52,598 --> 01:20:53,849 The shit's hittin' the fan. 1521 01:20:54,683 --> 01:20:56,435 You might have a massacre on your hands. 1522 01:20:59,396 --> 01:21:01,023 America's built on violence. 1523 01:21:01,732 --> 01:21:02,775 And guns. 1524 01:21:03,567 --> 01:21:05,194 That's-- That's our nature. 1525 01:21:05,527 --> 01:21:08,989 John Wayne, Hopalong Cassidy, uh, cowboys and Indians. 1526 01:21:09,031 --> 01:21:11,283 It's always-- You know, we're a violent country. 1527 01:21:13,327 --> 01:21:15,162 And we were built on violence. 1528 01:21:16,246 --> 01:21:17,289 And it's unfortunate. 1529 01:21:18,624 --> 01:21:20,584 [indistinct chatter] 1530 01:21:22,711 --> 01:21:25,589 [reporter] As we look around, police are massing, 1531 01:21:25,631 --> 01:21:28,675 and some kind of move against the sporting goods store 1532 01:21:28,717 --> 01:21:30,469 seems to be upcoming. 1533 01:21:30,928 --> 01:21:33,430 [indistinct chatter] 1534 01:21:33,472 --> 01:21:36,350 [man on bullhorn] The gunmen stated they are gonna die in that building 1535 01:21:36,392 --> 01:21:38,060 and they want us to come in and get them. 1536 01:21:39,603 --> 01:21:42,231 [Shu'aib Raheem] At the darkest moment of my life, 1537 01:21:42,648 --> 01:21:46,485 I had went so far out of bounds of right and wrong 1538 01:21:48,237 --> 01:21:50,864 that I didn't see no way back for me. 1539 01:21:53,575 --> 01:21:55,828 [Harvey Schlossberg] People think in a train of thought. 1540 01:21:56,161 --> 01:21:59,331 One thought pulls the next thought pulls the next thought. 1541 01:22:00,499 --> 01:22:02,543 I'm the thought interrupter. 1542 01:22:04,837 --> 01:22:07,714 I told the commanders, "No. I'm not the person 1543 01:22:07,756 --> 01:22:10,092 that kills other people. I want them out alive.โ€ 1544 01:22:11,385 --> 01:22:12,970 Hold your fire. 1545 01:22:15,597 --> 01:22:17,266 It was just us in there. 1546 01:22:17,307 --> 01:22:19,393 And still they didn't storm the store. 1547 01:22:21,687 --> 01:22:24,648 [Al Baker] Even though we all bleed blue for poor Steve, 1548 01:22:25,315 --> 01:22:28,444 let's use our minds, let's use our hearts and souls 1549 01:22:28,485 --> 01:22:29,987 and let's fix this problem 1550 01:22:30,028 --> 01:22:32,156 before it gets to the violent stage. 1551 01:22:33,615 --> 01:22:35,451 It's an internal strength, 1552 01:22:35,492 --> 01:22:39,746 the opposite of the external, explosive strength. 1553 01:22:41,165 --> 01:22:42,958 That's true manhood. 1554 01:22:45,210 --> 01:22:47,588 Violence is a weakness. 1555 01:22:50,257 --> 01:22:52,092 [Shu'aib Raheem] "Please, reconnect the phone.โ€ 1556 01:22:52,759 --> 01:22:54,970 So Salih reconnected it, and I said, 1557 01:22:55,012 --> 01:22:57,473 "Well, okay. Let's talk.โ€ 1558 01:23:00,142 --> 01:23:02,769 Benjamin Ward was more calm. 1559 01:23:02,811 --> 01:23:06,607 He was Black, he understood our fears of the police. 1560 01:23:06,648 --> 01:23:08,192 Hey! Back! 1561 01:23:08,233 --> 01:23:09,860 Hey! Come on! 1562 01:23:13,405 --> 01:23:14,990 [Shu'aib Raheem] We also got that assurance 1563 01:23:15,032 --> 01:23:16,950 that they wouldn't try to beat us to death, 1564 01:23:18,243 --> 01:23:21,705 exact this retribution which they were known for. 1565 01:23:22,623 --> 01:23:24,917 We then spent a couple of hours 1566 01:23:24,958 --> 01:23:27,711 in just dialog on the telephone 1567 01:23:27,753 --> 01:23:30,088 to peck away at their philosophy 1568 01:23:30,130 --> 01:23:31,924 that the way to paradise 1569 01:23:31,965 --> 01:23:33,800 was to die inside of that building. 1570 01:23:33,842 --> 01:23:36,470 And make them see if they had a story to tell, 1571 01:23:36,762 --> 01:23:38,889 if there was a message to come out of what they did, 1572 01:23:38,931 --> 01:23:40,682 that they would have to remain alive. 1573 01:23:42,351 --> 01:23:44,228 [indistinct radio transission] 1574 01:23:44,853 --> 01:23:46,480 They may want to commit suicide 1575 01:23:46,522 --> 01:23:48,815 and get the police officer to do it for them. 1576 01:23:50,859 --> 01:23:54,321 The surrender ritual is the most critical part. 1577 01:23:55,739 --> 01:23:58,450 Nobody really knows what the next move is gonna be. 1578 01:23:59,284 --> 01:24:01,286 [indistinct chatter] 1579 01:24:02,454 --> 01:24:05,457 [7] 1580 01:24:07,501 --> 01:24:09,461 [Shu'aib Raheem] They wanted me and nobody else... 1581 01:24:10,379 --> 01:24:12,422 to lay down my weapons 1582 01:24:13,507 --> 01:24:15,217 Walking out there literally exposed. 1583 01:24:15,259 --> 01:24:17,261 [police radio chatter] 1584 01:24:18,929 --> 01:24:20,138 I had to trust them. 1585 01:24:20,681 --> 01:24:22,599 [man] 1586 01:24:22,641 --> 01:24:25,519 {\an8}Benjamin Ward actually walked down 1587 01:24:25,561 --> 01:24:27,229 {\an8}and stood in front of the store. 1588 01:24:28,397 --> 01:24:30,691 Held his hands out and showed that he was unarmed. 1589 01:24:33,193 --> 01:24:34,820 [man] 1590 01:24:40,492 --> 01:24:42,077 {\an8}[Shu'aib Raheem] I surrendered to him. 1591 01:24:45,706 --> 01:24:46,790 {\an8}It was over. 1592 01:24:56,633 --> 01:24:59,803 [Gerald Lefcourt] Once the terrible shooting of the police officers occured, 1593 01:25:00,262 --> 01:25:02,347 the leadership in the police department 1594 01:25:02,389 --> 01:25:03,765 did all the right things. 1595 01:25:04,474 --> 01:25:06,310 Negotiations... 1596 01:25:06,351 --> 01:25:07,894 rather than force. 1597 01:25:09,855 --> 01:25:11,815 We realized these guys didn't want to be there. 1598 01:25:11,857 --> 01:25:13,483 They got caught in a robbery, 1599 01:25:13,525 --> 01:25:15,027 and they were forced back, 1600 01:25:15,068 --> 01:25:17,863 and they were forced into a hostage situation. 1601 01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:22,117 What experience have they ever had 1602 01:25:22,159 --> 01:25:23,577 with the police? 1603 01:25:23,619 --> 01:25:25,621 It's all been negative. You know. 1604 01:25:25,662 --> 01:25:28,248 All of their brethren have either been arrested or beat up 1605 01:25:28,290 --> 01:25:30,125 or mistreated or abused. 1606 01:25:30,751 --> 01:25:34,963 Uh, you know, cops aren't known historically 1607 01:25:35,297 --> 01:25:37,799 for being the most kindest, gentlest people. 1608 01:25:38,634 --> 01:25:43,013 It was revolutionary to diffuse a deadly situation. 1609 01:25:43,055 --> 01:25:46,099 That's now your responsibility as a cop. 1610 01:25:48,143 --> 01:25:50,896 We started to transcend street justice. 1611 01:25:51,229 --> 01:25:52,481 [reporter] Were you one of the hostages? 1612 01:25:53,190 --> 01:25:55,275 Sir, can you tell us what it was like inside there? 1613 01:25:55,984 --> 01:25:57,736 Can you say anything? Was your life threatened at all? 1614 01:25:57,778 --> 01:25:59,780 [indistinct yelling] 1615 01:26:00,238 --> 01:26:03,241 [7] 1616 01:26:05,077 --> 01:26:07,079 [camera shutters clicking] 1617 01:26:14,211 --> 01:26:17,130 It's a Muslim name. I can't pronounce it. 1618 01:26:17,172 --> 01:26:18,924 [laughter] 1619 01:26:18,965 --> 01:26:20,258 Shu'aib Abdul Rhaheem. 1620 01:26:20,300 --> 01:26:22,386 Alias, Shu'aib Abdul Al Raheem. 1621 01:26:22,803 --> 01:26:24,888 [indistinct dialog] 1622 01:26:24,930 --> 01:26:26,264 [detective] Attempted murder, robbery. 1623 01:26:28,809 --> 01:26:31,812 [7] 1624 01:26:31,853 --> 01:26:34,147 [Shu'aib Raheem] First one in my family to go to prison. 1625 01:26:36,441 --> 01:26:37,943 I hurt my family. 1626 01:26:37,984 --> 01:26:40,987 [7] 1627 01:26:44,950 --> 01:26:46,868 [Jerry Riccio] The quiet guy didn't do anything 1628 01:26:46,910 --> 01:26:48,745 to make himself look like a bad guy. 1629 01:26:49,287 --> 01:26:53,166 Putting him in prison with hardcore bad guys 1630 01:26:53,625 --> 01:26:54,835 would have been the wrong thing. 1631 01:26:55,460 --> 01:26:56,712 [interviewer] He's still in prison. 1632 01:26:58,296 --> 01:26:59,673 Maximum security. 1633 01:27:00,465 --> 01:27:01,842 Oh... 1634 01:27:09,141 --> 01:27:10,851 You're sure, right? Right? 1635 01:27:12,519 --> 01:27:13,603 Whew. 1636 01:27:14,688 --> 01:27:17,399 The last guy in the world I'd think maximum security. 1637 01:27:19,359 --> 01:27:21,737 {\an8}I'm trying to put all of this behind me. 1638 01:27:21,778 --> 01:27:23,989 {\an8}Because like, uh, 1639 01:27:24,656 --> 01:27:25,949 {\an8}I regret it all. 1640 01:27:27,868 --> 01:27:30,454 The fact that I participated in this incident 1641 01:27:30,495 --> 01:27:32,664 you know, it-- I had to pay for it. 1642 01:27:33,874 --> 01:27:36,626 Forty-six years, I feel like I've done my time. 1643 01:27:40,213 --> 01:27:43,925 I would like to be able to, you know, 1644 01:27:44,509 --> 01:27:47,554 have, uh, some type of life after this. 1645 01:27:48,388 --> 01:27:51,850 He wasn't a bad guy. I don't think, 1646 01:27:52,225 --> 01:27:54,060 other than that little guy that got shot, 1647 01:27:54,102 --> 01:27:56,521 I don't think any of โ€˜em were bad. 1648 01:28:01,067 --> 01:28:04,029 [Shu'aib Raheem] In prison, you come face to face with your demons. 1649 01:28:05,739 --> 01:28:09,451 People would suddenly become very religious and spiritual. 1650 01:28:09,493 --> 01:28:12,370 What's driving them is their sense of shame and guilt. 1651 01:28:13,955 --> 01:28:15,999 Their quest for forgiveness. 1652 01:28:17,209 --> 01:28:19,252 The ministers say, "God forgive you." 1653 01:28:19,669 --> 01:28:21,338 It's not quite that simple. 1654 01:28:22,380 --> 01:28:26,218 You gotta walk back through every bad decision, 1655 01:28:26,259 --> 01:28:27,928 every person you hurt. 1656 01:28:30,972 --> 01:28:34,267 Riccio didn't deserve me putting a gun in his face. 1657 01:28:34,309 --> 01:28:36,812 My religion forbids that. 1658 01:28:36,853 --> 01:28:39,356 Police officers out there doin' they job, 1659 01:28:39,397 --> 01:28:42,734 to even fire a weapon in that direction was wrong. 1660 01:28:45,028 --> 01:28:48,031 Your sins. Face them. 1661 01:28:48,782 --> 01:28:50,700 It repulses you. 1662 01:28:50,742 --> 01:28:52,285 And until it repulses you, 1663 01:28:52,327 --> 01:28:54,371 you haven't really confronted it. 1664 01:28:56,081 --> 01:28:58,959 I got a master's degree from New York Theological Seminary 1665 01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:00,836 in Pastoral Counseling, 1666 01:29:00,877 --> 01:29:04,089 so I have the training being the chaplain's aides in prisons. 1667 01:29:07,425 --> 01:29:09,219 For over 35 years, 1668 01:29:09,261 --> 01:29:12,013 we were like the mediators, we created the peace. 1669 01:29:13,765 --> 01:29:17,561 It-- It's-- It's very, um, uh... 1670 01:29:18,728 --> 01:29:20,105 meaningful. 1671 01:29:20,480 --> 01:29:23,650 It's very important that he has come to 1672 01:29:23,692 --> 01:29:25,318 this level of understanding. 1673 01:29:29,114 --> 01:29:30,448 Should he be forgiven? 1674 01:29:30,866 --> 01:29:32,284 By God? 1675 01:29:33,410 --> 01:29:35,287 Yeah. He should be. 1676 01:29:36,204 --> 01:29:37,539 He should be forgiven. 1677 01:29:42,294 --> 01:29:45,881 It's not up to me to decide whether he gets forgiven or not. 1678 01:29:47,132 --> 01:29:48,174 I don't forgive him. 1679 01:29:50,886 --> 01:29:53,054 Killing a cop is unforgivable. 1680 01:29:55,056 --> 01:29:58,894 That-- I-- I firmly believe that he should have been 1681 01:29:58,935 --> 01:30:01,646 tried and convicted of Steve Gilroy's murder 1682 01:30:01,688 --> 01:30:03,148 and he should have been put to death. 1683 01:30:05,525 --> 01:30:08,111 I made a vow and a promise that when I come home, 1684 01:30:08,153 --> 01:30:10,697 I'm gonna tackle this prison industrial complex 1685 01:30:10,739 --> 01:30:12,782 by trying to stem the tide of young people 1686 01:30:12,824 --> 01:30:13,909 even going to prison. 1687 01:30:14,951 --> 01:30:18,246 {\an8}The children in this area are suffering from PTSD 1688 01:30:18,288 --> 01:30:20,373 because of the violence. 1689 01:30:21,041 --> 01:30:24,127 You don't have to become that which was done to you. 1690 01:30:24,961 --> 01:30:27,964 [7] 1691 01:30:30,091 --> 01:30:31,259 [Jack Cambria] The police department, in general 1692 01:30:31,301 --> 01:30:32,552 {\an8}doesn't know who he is. 1693 01:30:32,594 --> 01:30:34,137 The general public doesn't know who he is. 1694 01:30:35,555 --> 01:30:36,932 But, very slowly, 1695 01:30:36,973 --> 01:30:38,600 police culture started to change. 1696 01:30:39,476 --> 01:30:42,187 The NYPD is the birthplace. 1697 01:30:42,228 --> 01:30:44,439 Today, almost every police agency in the world 1698 01:30:44,481 --> 01:30:47,108 has a version of a hostage negotiation team. 1699 01:30:47,150 --> 01:30:49,194 [man] I want to get you the help you need... 1700 01:30:49,235 --> 01:30:51,821 [Jack Cambria] That's all the foundation that Harvey put in place. 1701 01:30:52,364 --> 01:30:54,783 As long as it takes for them to say, "lI had enough.โ€ 1702 01:30:54,824 --> 01:30:57,118 [Shu'aib Raheem] I don't know Mr. Harvey Schlossberg 1703 01:30:57,160 --> 01:30:59,037 but he saved my life. 1704 01:30:59,329 --> 01:31:01,373 my co-defendant's life, 1705 01:31:02,123 --> 01:31:03,959 and all the people in the store. 1706 01:31:05,377 --> 01:31:06,962 [Harvey Schlossberg] People do change. 1707 01:31:08,463 --> 01:31:10,924 Human life, sacred. 1708 01:31:12,008 --> 01:31:13,134 It really is. 1709 01:31:30,151 --> 01:31:33,154 [7] 1710 01:32:28,251 --> 01:32:31,254 [7] 1711 01:33:04,162 --> 01:33:07,165 [7] 1712 01:33:14,672 --> 01:33:17,592 {\an8}To have listeners again 1713 01:33:18,009 --> 01:33:19,302 {\an8}that feels good. 1714 01:33:19,344 --> 01:33:22,347 [7] 1715 01:33:33,858 --> 01:33:36,861 [7] 120160

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.