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now the history of Joy Division and new

order a band who changed their name when

Ian Curtis committed suicide four years

ago this month despite the hits like

Blue Monday and thieves like us the band

of retained a cult image and a sense of

distance from the rest of the music

scene this week though the subject of a

new book an ideal for living which to

the uninitiated may seem as impenetrable

as their record covers it's written by

Mark Johnson and three others and

follows the band's careers from the

beginnings in Manchester with almost day

by day compilation of press clippings

Morrissey before we look at the book uh

perhaps you could try and explain the

extraordinary appeal of Joy Division and

now New Order speaking as a fellow

mancunian oh I don't know whether I

could explain it well they treated quite

unlike any other band yeah I think

um I think most people I think most

people's vision of Joy Division it is

entirely colored by the death of Ian

Curtis and it's always really the really

only factor that people seem to discuss

um Joe division were one group that that

I really didn't take to that much if you

used to go and see him in Manchester I

saw them a few times by accident and but

I I can now completely appreciate their

appeal but I look upon Ian Curtis and

certainly new order as neither singers

or lyricists but as symbolists I think

they were quite accurate and they um

they had the spirit of the times and but

I think it was totally false it was like

people saying well yes this is how life

is totally without emotion which of

course they weren't and we are totally

hard people which of course they weren't

it was like this complete affectation of

people wanting to be something that they

weren't I find it quite sad but in a

musical sense I hear nothing whatsoever

but um what about the book then and does

that there's a lot of people you saw in

stage in Manchester

um the book confused me when it was

straightforward written in almost a a

diary fashion I found it quite

interesting what about those quotes yeah

sort of strange stuff or ostentatious it

was very very boring but um ultimately i

i would support at the end of the day I

would support New Order and Joy Division

but um with some confusion I'll admit

Tony uh not a band I suspect you'd

approve of no well well I mean as long

as people get pleasure out of them

that's fine but it's certainly not me no

and the book

um I should probably think for the fans

of Joy Division uh it would probably

appeal to them but what did you make of

it though well I found it incredibly

boring

um there were certain bits of it that I

found a bit disturbing as well I mean

they were always trying to get over this

fascist image and things like that and

uh I mean one or two bits and pieces

they always denied they were fascists

but they did seem to get such as names

the bit where it let let down I mean the

Ian Kurt has committed suicide and the

book didn't actually go into that now

anybody who is interested in that I

suppose that would be the thing that

would be interesting there's some

extraordinary quote there that

it's a bit of speculation is not only

futile but an invasion of his privacy

which as a journalist I mean that seemed

to be the key essence of the book is why

the guy died and you you skirt around it

like that I also think the book assumes

that you know everything there is to

know about Joy Division now somebody

obviously it's not really fair for me to

judge it because I'm not the slightest

bit interested in it's not mine together

I've heard it yes what do you think of

it well it's not for me no but I I'm

very you know I'm more into soul soul

side of it but um the thing is that they

assume that you know everything about

the group I would personally have liked

them to go into detail about the

individual members of the group and they

didn't do that they went from one gig to

another and quite honestly I'm not

interested the fact they appeared in the

cat's whiskers Club in wherever it was

and they left the gear on the stage for

a roadie to clear up I mean it's not

interesting that's what every group does

and there was one particular section

where they said that because of Joy

Division or whatever they call

themselves in those days they prove that

anybody could get together even without

being able to sing being able to

actually play an instrument like playing

smash it this week they still can't play

as New Order which I thought was

slightly curious George George um I

wouldn't imagine you as a Joy Division

fan Maybe I'm Wrong you might be wrong I

might be wrong this this the book just

became incredibly suspect for me the

minute I saw uh you do like them I mean

that's I do like them yeah it became

very suspect when I saw that it was

partially uh well a lot of the

contributions were were from a gentleman

called Paul Morley

you'd need a book a lot thicker than

that just to list that man's um that

man's ideas or hang ups whatever you

like to call it but it became very very

pretentious in so many areas that I I

just I actually didn't finish it I

didn't get anywhere near finishing it um

and I actually really liked Joy Division

or particularly their second album but

closer I thought closer the second side

or closer is uh one of my favorite

albums it's just beautiful I mean like

music 24 hours sounds like

um I can't remember there was the

Eternal and uh yeah 24 hours there's

there's just four tracks which I don't

even know the listing of but they're

just beautiful musically I didn't

actually see it I thought their image

all the all the way through liking them

I thought their image was pretentious

and contrived and it did have very

fascist elements to it but um I thought

music was great I thought it was quite

good the way they didn't they didn't

harp on about um the death because that

was like I thought that was almost like

them it could almost have been

engineered it was like awful it was the

way the way that they were elevated

after his death was really sick but it

was um to make it a commercial book

that's what people I mean no to be

honest with you I think that is a book

for for people who I enjoy the idea of

factory the pictures thank you

stop you there and an ideal for living a

history of Joy Division is published by

proteus

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