All language subtitles for 42Up-1998

I'm going to
work in Woolworth's

When I grow up I want
to be an astronaut

When I get married I'd
like to have two children

My hearts desire
is to see my Daddy

I don't want
to answer that

This is no ordinary
outing at the zoo

it's a very
special occasion

we've brought these children
together for the very first time

they're like
any other children

except that they come from
startlingly different backgrounds

Stop it
at once!

We brought these children
together because we wanted a glimpse

of England in
the year 2000

the shop steward and the
executive of the year 2000

are now
seven years old

In 1964 World in
Action made Seven Up

we have been back to film
these children every seven years

they are now
forty-two

Is it important
to fight? Yes!

Tony was brought up in
the East end of London

I want to be a jockey
when I grow up yeah

At fourteen he was
already an apprentice

at Tommy Gosling's
racing stable in Epsom

at fifteen
he left school

This is a photo finish of
when I rode at Newberry

I'm the one
with the white cap

I was beaten a length and a
half for third and had a photo finish

so I took it out the box
and kept it as a souvenir

by twenty-eight he had
given up on horse racing

my greatest
fulfilment in life

when I rode
at Kempton

in the same race
as Lester Piggot

I was a naive, wet
behind the ears apprentice

all my years from seven, all my
ambition was fulfilled in one moment

and I eventually
finished last

tailed off obviously but it
didn't make any difference to me

just to be part of it
to be with the man himself

What will you do if you
don't make it as a jockey?

Oh I
don't know

if I knew I couldn't be
one I'd get out of the game

I wouldn't
bother

And what do you
think you'd do then?

Learn
Taxi's

At twenty-one, he
was on "The Knowledge"

and by twenty-eight
he owned his own cab

we were on the way to Langlands
and all I can hear is Alf Garnett

"It's the Labour government
and your lot up here... "

- Have you got a girlfriend?
- No

Would you like to
have a girlfriend?

No

Do you understand
the four F's?

find them, feed
them and forget them

the other F, I'll let you use
your own discrimination

but I mean,
this one

I tried to do
the three F's

but I couldn't
forget her

I went to a
discotheque

he was in the
pub earlier on

and afterwards we went to a
disco and Tony was standing there

and I just... from
there that was it

couldn't
get rid of him

We have our ups and downs,
no more than anyone else

I think you've got
to work at a marriage

I think all marriages
go through stages

you can't
stand each other

I think "Oh god I hate
him I wish he'd get out"

I do

We've been to the edge of the
cliff and looked over a couple of times

and we've always
seemed to go back

and we've
stayed the course

but I must say it's not
easy being married

and I don't know
anyone who thinks it is

it's quite
difficult

In 1993 Tony and
Debbie left the Eastend

and moved to
Woodford in Essex

Well with the help of my neighbour,
I'm not really a D.I.Y type of guy

he painted all the back of the house and
was going to put a conservatory here

but if you look
along here

we've put a patio in
and a pond for the fish

Well when we bought
it it was very old

this was
two rooms

and we've knocked
it completely out

refitted the kitchen
put all new windows in

new flooring, literally
everything really

Well the fence we had a bit of luck there
because the next door neighbour

they paid for it and
they did all this end

so I
done...

it came in my favour
having a small bit done

so that was a
blessing there

but the only thing
I ever done was

I planted them
three trees

and they seem to have grown in
the last three or four years

it has cost us a lot
of money to do it yeah

a lot of
money

and now we're
penniless!

well I think we over
spent about...

well a collossall
amounts, thousands

my over heads to keep
everything going here

is at this present
time, astronomical

Are you going to get
out of this financial hole?

Yes without
question because

it is a mill stone round
my neck at this time

but it's nothing what
two years won't achieve

through hard work
and determination

To help out Debbie works
the day shift in the cab

while Tony does
the night shift

- Look son it's hard work out there
- Come on you're not reaching me yet

Alright, now be
bigger, dominate me

At twenty-eight Tony
was taking acting lessons

Now he supplements his income
with ocassional TV jobs

Oi!

That's all
I've got on me

Mate if I had a pound for every
time I heard that I'd be a rich man

- You've got the fair haven't you?
- Yeah just about

Would everybody please sit
round now, get on with their work

I don't want to
see any backs to me

shouldn't be anybody turning
round, Tony do you hear as well?

get on with
your work in front

Tony!

don't turn
round again

there's only one ambition
really, I want a baby son

and if I see my baby son
that'll be my ambition fulfilled

no one knows
that, only you now

this is
Hackney Marshes

the games that are being played
are mostly these are pub teams

and I've been playing over here for
nearly twenty-eight, thirty years

- So you're a veteran?
- You might call me that yes!

Who do you
play with?

My Nicky

and I think it's quite admirable that
his dad's in the same side as his son

Tony and Debbie
have three children

the eldest, Nicky, works
as a French Polisher

I wanted him to go on the
Knowledge and become a cabbie

I bought him a bike but I'm quite
proud of the way he's turned out

he's a very
respectable kid

very respectful
towards people

and most of all he's done
it all on his own terms

Perry, she is just
started secondary school

and she's a character but
she's quite academic minded

and hopefully
she'll stay on

Ref!
come ref!

come on ref get a
hold of him there!

we've only got another
sixty minutes left

Jody don't like school, she's
just leaving school shortly

I do feel that she's wasted a lot
of years in her secondary school

I'm not saying it's the school's
fault, probably a lot of it's her fault

but we have tried with her
and tried to push her into it

and I think she's
a bit how Tony was

she's just not interested in school
which I feel she'll regret later on

lovely mate!

I try to discipline them
in various areas but

at the end
of the day

it is quite hard
and difficult

I'd like to stand up and suggest
and lead with an iron fist but

I haven't got the heart to do it
and that's the truth of the matter

and I have
to do it

and then if anything
goes wrong it's my fault

a girl said to me
the other day

she said
"aren't you small?"

so I said "but you're
ugly, at least I can grow"

what can they say to that?
they can't say nothing can they

and why did you
fall in love with him?

I don't
know

I don't know how you
put up with me for so long

sometimes I don't
know how I stand him

I've been in
positions y'know and...

well it's hard to say in
front of Debbie but it's true

it's tempting

you take
the bait

I go on holiday once a year
with the boys to Spain, Magaluf

and we have a golf holiday,
all against Debbie's will

but it's
true

and I get in situations
out there that y'know

life is
for living

and I
come back

"Oh I know what you've
been doing out there!"

"you've been meeting all
those birds!" and whatever

and

they look at
you as if to say

"I know but I don't
want to know"

that's
how it is

I have often not gone through
life with one hand tied behind my back

and my character
happy go lucky nature

and being in positions that I
do I find my self caught in trouble

I'm not proud at
all to say this but

situations
arise that...

I have had regretful
behaviour various times

but

You got caught
and that was it

I'm not lying
about the fact

you could always cover it
up and suggest other things

but it's true
and let it be true

You
caught him?

- Yeah
- What happened?

well it was touch and go whether
we carried on from it or not

we went through a
very traumatic time

but then again let he who has
never sinned cast the first stone

it just doesn't happen with a taxi driver
living in Essex, it happens with MP's etcetc

I'm not going to hide behind any
trees and suggest I'm holier than thou

which no doubt I'm not,
what I'm suggesting is

this is what real life is all about,
if I've been caught that's fair enough

I'll pay the consequences
and the consequences are

iron out the detals and the problems
with my wife and our marriage

and hopefully eventually get it in the
right lane and put it back on the tracks

y'know
its...

Why did you
forgive him?

Because
at the time

I felt that there was still
something in the relationship

and there was three
children involved here as well

which is not easy when you've
got three young children

and there was obviously still
something between me and Tony

and it's not
easy to walk away

I could've
walked away

it's silly but when it
happened I felt very strong

and I could've
walked away

but it's not been
easy to try again

to get over the hurt because I've never
done it and I've never been unfaithful

and that's what I
found really hurtful

and I feel that I'm a good
wife and that I didn't deserve it

all I understand is,
dogs, prices, girls

knowledge, roads, streets,
squares and mum and dad and love

that's all I understand and
that's all I want to understand

Five to one,
Cooladine

Four and
a half fifties

At twenty-one Tony was earning a bit
extra as a bookies runner at Hackney Wick

go on three
chase it

come
on boy

go on
three, inside

on the
out three

I've just came back here
after about two years

since they've stopped
racing at the Wick

and it's really
a travesty

I look around the Wick and close my eyes
and hear all the voices of the bookmakers

I've got visions of me
running up and down the stairs

trying to earn a few quid
running all the bets

now I've come back here again
and it makes me feel like crying

So the Eastend's
changing isn't it?

Very much so, it's
the way of the world

it's very cosmopolitan now in
Bethnal Green and the Eastend

the Eastend tradition
as we knew it

the pie and mash shops and
fish and chip shops are closing down

for me it's
quite sad

but if that's what they
call progress well so be it

Tell me about the family,
are you fairly closely knit?

Well I love
them all

there's not one I don't love more than the
other, other than my mum obviously

but your mum is the root of the
tree, you love your mum best

By the time he was thirty-five,
both Tony's parents had died

I'm at the grave side
I'm talking to her

I've got all the images
running through my mind

saying like "Tony go downstairs
and get me five cigarettes"

and I used to
go in the shop

she used to throw the cotton
in a hair curler out the window

and I used to tie the
cigarettes onto the cotton

and she used
to pull them up

and she goes...
I see her in the end

"Thanks Tony, see you after school,
be good" and that's the way it was

even now

I'll get...

emotionally sentimental
over my mum and dad

that's just
because

the weekends they could've had
over here in the later part of their life

it would've
been nice to know

that their last days with
were me but it wasn't to be

The posh ones? "Oh yes,
oh yes, oh yes!"

they're
nuts

just have to
touch them

I don't want to change
because if I change

it proves the other
Tony Walker was all fake

I'm not trying to keep
up with the Jones's

and make myself any more
than what I'm capable of doing

but I mean,
I can only go so far

and I'm only a cabbie,
I'm not exactly a movie star

I've done as well as I can go and
I think this is the limitations for me now

so I'm happy
with what I've got

if anything else comes
along, it's a bonus

Tell me, do you have
any boyfriends Suzy?

Yes

Tell me
about them

Well he lives
up in Scotland

and I think
he's thirteen

and I'm rather
lonely up there

because he usually
goes to school

but we usually play
til about half past six

when he comes
home from school

and then we
go in and then

he goes home to
do his homework

Have you got any
boyfriends Suzy?

What is your attitude
towards marriage?

for yourself?

Well I don't know, I haven't
given it a lot of thought

'cause I'm very, very
cynical about it

but then you get a certain
amount of faith restored in it

I've got friends and their
parents are happily married

and so it does put
faith back into you, but

me myself I'm very
cynical about it

When I last saw you at twenty-one
you were nervous, chain-smoking and uptight

and now you
seem happy

what's happened to you over
these last seven years?

Well I
suppose Rupert

- I'll give you some credit
- Thank you!

I'm not a
chain-smoking person

I think

you can't just walk
through a marriage

and think once you get married it's all
going to be roses and everything forever

y'know
you have...

well everybody
has their rows, but

we've never yet had a row that
we haven't managed to sort out

it's very hard to actually say what
it is that goes on between a couple

it's either
there or it's not

and maybe we're very lucky, after
twenty years we still seem to have it

When I get married I'd
like to have two children

I'm not very children
minded at the moment

and I don't know
if I ever will be

What do you
think about them?

Well I don't
like babies

What was the
biggest shocks to you

when you suddenly were
confronted with a small baby

that you had to
be responsible for

Panic set
in I think

that I wasn't going
to be able to cope

At twenty-eight Suzy had
two sons, Thomas and Oliver

I don't think I'll have
any more for the reason

that I will get pleasure out of these
two but I can't see me going on and on

by thirty-five she
had a daughter Laura

Very little has changed, my life is
very much the same as it was then

I've had another baby, we've
moved house and that's about all

Would you like a nanny to look after
them or would you want to look after them?

No I want a nanny
to look after them

I've chosen to stay home for the last
fifteen years to bring up my children

because I wanted to
be the one that did it

Tom is now sixteen and
he's his own man now

he's suddenly got
confidence in himself now

and having being
quite a shy child

he's now come out of himself
and he's his own person

Oliver's
very individual

it's a sort of love hate
relationship Oliver and I have

we don't get on all the time but
we still come through most things

but it's been a hard battle for
him, he's got learning difficulties

and life hasn't dealt too many easy
cards for him so its's a lot harder for him

Laura just seems to take life
in her stride, she just takes it

she's very easy going
and gets on with life

Tom will be away at university
in another couple of years

and they'll all get on
and make their own lives

the mid-forties is a crossroads for
people as their lives do change and

I don't just want to suddenly find when the
children have gone I've got nothing to my life

I'm not very good at sitting around doing
nothing, I have to be doing something

I have to have a goal or
something to try and achieve

The more she went through
the stages of bereavement

the bigger the
space became

- But the actual grief
- Doesn't go away

doesn't actually
go away ever

I got into bereavement
counselling about four years ago

it can be very harrowing,
it's very difficult

which is why all counsellors
need a supervisor

because you come out sometimes from
a session, mentally and emotionally drained

She was coming more to
terms with what happened

It's an extraordinary experience
when you meet someone

who is suffering
terribly

and over the months
you see them move on

you see them get their
life back together again

At twenty-eight,
Suzy's father died

it is terribly hard and even now I
still can't believe my father's not here

it's still
sinking in I think

my mother had
been ill before

but when I started the course I
didn't know quite how ill she was then

and we found out she had terminal cancer
when I was half way through the course

and I did wonder if I could carry on as it was
quite difficult going to the course every week

and listening to other people,
what they'd gone through, but

in a strange
way it helped me

so I came through the course and
my mother died just after that

but I did find it
a help doing it

as I just felt I wasn't alone and I think that's
the whole point of bereavement counselling

is that people feel very alone when
they've lost someone very close to them

and a lot of people don't
have someone to turn to

well I was the only child going through
their parents splitting up, aged fourteen

you're at a very vulnerable
aged and it does cut you up

but

y'know, you
get over it

I'd never had a very close
relationship with my parents

I didn't really know them very well but in the
last few years of her life we became closer

and I think that's what I
resent that I lost her when I did

because I was just beginning to
really build a relationship with her

When he was thirty-five
Rupert made a big career move

I was partner in
quite a big law firm

and I resigned from that and
set up my own company

I tend to specialise in refurbishing old
buildings and converting them into offices

It was a very difficult time
when Rupert was deciding to leave

he's got a lot of responsibilities with us
and it's not easy starting up on your own

Do you ever worry that the roof
might fall in and you'll be out of this

Yes, I mean it
crosses my mind and

this last year it's crossed my mind
quite hard that we could lose this

I've never wanted to have a business which
was dependant on you losing your house

but I think ultimately
that can always happen

The gamble paid off and
the company's doing well

What sort of
things do you do?

Ride, swim, play
tennis, ping-pong

and I might
play croquet

something
like that

I did have a
privileged background

but on the other hand I was sent
away to boarding school very young

which I found very
hard to cope with

and I'm sure my parents did it
for what they felt was the right reason

I just felt
rejected

which was why I never wanted
to force that on to my children

What do you want
most out of life?

To be happy and
get on with life

I don't want to sit back
and let it all whizz past

you don't know how long
you've got your life for

you could be run over
by a bus tomorrow

so you've got to make the
most of it while you've got it

if I could have it
over I would change...

I would change my life from fourteen to
twenty-one, those years were not good for me

like any other child with divorced parents
at fourteen I felt very lost, bewildered

I would've made more of my education
instead of rather throwing it away

because I thought I knew it all
and didn't want to be bothered

but I can't turn
the clock back

so I just have to bury that and think "ok it
was a time of my life that was unhappy"

and
move on

Two of the boys are coming
into that period of their lives

- are you watchful of that for them?
- I am watchful of that but

I hope they have a more stable
home life than I had at that age

and I don't take for granted the home life
that Rupert and I have tried to build for them

all I want
is to be...

to be here long enough to be
fit and healthy long enough

to see my children grow up
to be independant people

what I really couldn't cope with was
if I died before they were grown up

it's the one thing I think
every parent dreads

is not living long enough to
see their children into adulthood

excellent!

What do you think
about rich people?

Well...
not much

Tell me
about them

Well they think they can do
everything without you doing it as well

Symon was brought
up in a childrens home

the only child of
a single parent

Rich people have
all different things

they have everything they want whereas
poor people don't have anything

and they know they haven't got anything
so they know they're missing something

What are
you missing?

Well I'd probably
say a bike and...

a fishing rod

Twenty
years ago

when I
was born

an illegitimate child

that's something that's
only whispered about

people feel strongly
about it in those days

but nowadays it's..

it's not a
serious matter

the serious point is whether you
stay with someone or you leave them

since
thirty-one

I've got married,
had a couple of kids

well I don't think there's anybody else
I could've ever married except Yvonne

she gives me my
life really because

we're together, we have
the children and everything

look at the
parrot, look

When you decided to have the five did
you want to have them close together

Yeah, because one is fifteen and one is six

and there's such an age gap
that they could never get on

they never grew up together,
they won't know each other

By thirty-five Symon and
Yvonne were divorced

at forty-two he had
married Vienetta

People go out when they're
younger, we met in the laundrette!

- Once a week!
- Once a week in the laundrette!

we both sort
of drifted apart

unfortunately

and had our own
lives, got married

and we met up again
nearly six years ago

She already had a
teenage daughter, Miriam

now Symon and Vienetta
have a four year old son Daniel

Does he remind you of yourself
when you were younger?

Oh no he's got far
more energy than me

there's a bit of both of us,
he's very bright and quick

he's very
clever

I like to know how things work
so for that he is like me yes

Why did you
call him Daniel?

Long story!

It's my
fathers name

- Yeah
- That's nice

We decided to name him Daniel before
he was born, we didn't know it was a boy

They say "Where's your
father then?"

You know when your mums out at
work "Where's your father?"

and I just tell them
I ain't got one

What effect has
that had on you?

Well I don't think it's had
any effect on me, 'cause...

what you don't have
you don't miss

Well it hurts me that he wasn't
there, but at the same time...

he wasn't there, he wasn't
there for me or my mum, so...

I never really
wanted to see him

that's anger
inside me, but...

personally I'd like to see him
just for curiosities sake, but

the anger that I've had
for how many years is...

it's been overgrown by boredom now,
I just can't be bothered to look for him

you've got
everything then

they've even got
what I never had

- Which is what?
- A father isn't it!

so they've
had everything

I've still got
five children

they haven't really taken the break
up of my first marriage to well

I've still to get
to grips with that, and

get to them and make them
understand that daddy is still daddy

Has that
been hard?

It has
for me

because I've always
been the retiring type

not really taking
anything on, but

I don't really want to lose
my children, any of them

I still want them to know
that I'm there for them

at that time I thought maybe two families
can meet and everything would be alright

but we're not talking about a
movie we're talking about life, so

things don't always
work out that way

It would be nice if they could just pop
over and say hello and come in freely

like as if they're one of the kids as
others kids do so why shouldn't they?

well

before I'm old
enough to get a job

I'll just walk around and
see what I can find

I was going to
be a film star, but

now I'm going to be an electrical
engineer which is more to reality really

By twenty-one Symon was working in the
freezer room of Walls sausages in London

How do you see the future
as far as work goes?

Well I know I can't stay at
Walls forever, it's just not me

I couldn't stay there for that
long, my mind would go dead

but eh...

I think if I really wanted to I
could learn a trade, even now

I'm quite happy to stay there, it
doesn't look like it's going to close down

better the devil
you know isn't it

Walls did close down and Symon
had a number of warehouse jobs

before he joined Yuson, an air freight
company as a forklift truck driver

when I was young I used to
say I'd never work in an office

with all those stuffy
people in a stuffy office

I've done enough hard work to realise I've
been doing the wrong job for so long now

and the brother
has big eyes

and he's blue, the
brother is blue

the year before last
Symon went to GCSE maths

same thing as my daughter and
they're both swatting here

and Symon comes up with
good grades and he passed

it's just give him a kick up the bum
to get something in that feild

'cause he's
very good

I had one dream when all
the world was on top of me

and everything was on me
and I just about got out

everything flew up in the
air and it all landed on my head

So are you still
drawing and painting?

I like to but I never find the time to
sit down and set something out to do

it's just that this is so good
she just stands back - yeah

He does help
Miriam though

she's doing art
at A-level, so

when she has a bit of difficulty with
something she says "Symon!"

so he comes to
the rescue at times

Well I get it from my
mum 'cause she loved art

always dragging me around
the galleries and whatever

Was it difficult moving from a home
back to live with your mother?

Well I find it's
comfortable

I can get on well with
my mother sometimes

well that's good
because alot of

young children can't get on with their
parents at all at this time of their life

but I get on pretty well
with my mum now

What sort of like does
your mother have?

It always seems hard,
she's always been nervous

she has periods
of depression

it's made me very
protective towards her

I feel I've got to
help her all the time

she died in 1990,
she had cancer

she didn't survive all the
stuff it was doing to her

Was that
tough?

Yeah for
me because

there was so many
things I never actually

said to my mum that I
would've liked to say to her

just things you think about afterwards, it's
too late because they're not there any more

What sort
of things?

Just, I love you
every day, and

I like what you're doing or don't like what
you're doing, just ordinary silly things

everybodys got to get used
to knowing coloured people

and coloured people in turn have got
to get used to being with white people

'cause if either side doesn't work
properly then no side will work properly

they're just the same
as me aren't they

Do you think it's hard being a
black man in English society today?

It depends what
you want isn't it

if you just want to live in the
society then no it's not hard

if you want to fight the
society, yes it would be hard

to be honest Michael I've
never actually taken it on

I've heard it from both
sides to be honest

to be fair
to myself

I've had white people say
"you black this and that"

and I've had black people tell me
"you white this and that", so...

I stopped thinking about
colour a long time ago

It's still as tough out
there, you're still fighting

and you're still having
to push yourself

'cause when you've got a job you've
always got to try and work harder

even at school
you've got to...

they seem to
stereo type you

even when we moved in here,
we've had no one speak to us

I suppose they suspect you to be having
loud music and parties and that

but we're not all the same, you've
got good and bad in every nation

and y'know, we're just the same as
anyone else as far as I'm concerned

I just want to be
like anybody else

nothing too
marvelous

I feel ok just getting
on with my life

just sort of
keeping up

but I know if I really
wanted to I could get on

it'll only take a little
spark with me to do it

What's the biggest influence
Vienetta has on you?

I think really
motivation, because...

before I never really
pushed myself

she looks
after me

she doesn't just push me,
she looks after me

she would never let
anything be wrong for me

she always makes sure that if
I go down the road I look alright

if I go anywhere
I look alright

y'know? and I do
the right thing, and

it makes me feel that there's sombody
out there that really really wants me

*speaks Latin*

Yes,
speak up

When he was seven, Bruce was at
a pre-preparatory boarding school

at fourteen,
St Paul's in London

They don't enforce
being upper class

and things like
that at St. Paul's

they suggest that you don't
have long hair and do get it cut

and they teach you to be
reasonably well mannered

but not to sniff
on the poorer people

At twenty-one he was in his last
year at Oxford reading maths

You can show that
this is irreducible

then you do a transformation on
this point and X = T + two

Good that's a nice
way of doing it

particularly using Eisentstien
down here, his test is very powerful

Well there was one job, I'd
like to make maps really

and it's nice sort
of outdoor life

you go to... I mean
you travel around

but there are very
few jobs like that going

you observe that
seven which is a prime

divides the co-efficient
of T squared

I won't carry on with mathematics,
I don't think I'll be a teacher

so you're in the
lead you see?

because DSC cabs have
got a profit of two thousand

Good B cabs have
got no profit at all, ok?

now can you explain that to Abdul 'cause
I want him to understand what it is

At twenty-eight
he was teaching

immigrant children
in East London

I was working in an insurance
company at the time

and I decided to go into teaching
without any experience at all

I didn't think they'd allow somebody to
walk in of the street into a classroom

Well going
to Africa

and try and teach people
who are not civilised

to be more
or less good

So is this your missionary
dream come true?

Well not
exactly

I've had the opportunity
to come here for a term

and it just so happens the school I'm in
has great links with this part of the world

At thirty-five, Bruce was teaching
in Sylhet in Northern Bangladesh

and then I've also got the
chance to learn a bit of Bangla

which is very difficult,
I'm not doing very well at

*Speaks Bangla*

the straight line yes,
keep going, keep going

no, no
stop there

At forty-two, Bruce is again
teaching in the Eastend of London

and having plotted the points
what do you do now? - Join them up

This is Bishop Challoner Roman Catholic
girls school in the Eastend of London

it's about a thousand
girls, eleven to eighteen

and I've been here
about five years

it was a chance to go for promotion
to be head of the maths faculty

and to teach
A- level as well

I didn't agree with the Conservatives about
what they were doing with the black people

y'know,
the racial policy

I'm an optimist here, I think
we can show the way, if you like

for developing a more
harmonious multi-cultural society

I'm quite pleased in a way that I know
an Algerian fellow near where I live

he will say that in other
countries in Europe...

they are spat at, harrassed
and beaten up by the police

here he says "I walk down the
street and nobody minds"

well my girlfriend
is in Africa

and I don't think I'll have
another chance of seeing her again

- Have you got any girlfriends?
- No

not yet, I'm
sure it will come

but
not yet

I do think a lot of people
think too much about it

I think I would
very much like to...

become involved in a family,
my own family for a start

that's a need that I
feel I ought to fulfil

and would like to fulfil
and would do it well

yes I haven't got
married or whatever

and I suppose that would've been
something which I'd hoped had happened

y'know I suppose there's
lots of reasons really

I don't suppose I've
met the right person

Well you're getting on a bit,
are you getting worried?

Well not particularly, I'm always optimistic
who knows who I might meet tomorrow

I think that's the
trouble with reserve

you're not rejected but you never know
what might've been, but I'm getting better

What do
I look like?

It was when, I think, we were
doing the school production of Annie

and Bruce was playing
President Roosevelt

and I had to put on
his stage make-up

not many men that will let
you put on their make-up

It gives me great pleasure to be here
on this joyful and happy occasion

to celebrate the marriage
of Bruce and Penelope

Bruce an Penny
married last summer

she teaches at
Bruce's school

- I Bruce Swain
- I Bruce Swain

- Take you Penelope Sarah Jane
- Take you Penelope Sarah Jane

to be
my wife

How did he propose
to you and where?

The where was
on the sofa

and in the middle of a conversation
about something completely different

he just asked if
I'd like to marry him

and if I hadn't been listening carefully
I would have missed it completely

- To love and to cherish
- To love and to cherish

- Till death us do part
- Till death us do part

It's quite
unusual really

we did a lot of it ourselves and
we had the reception here

we didn't have a lot of things that
you normally have at weddings

like the cars and photographers
and all that sort of thing

everybody say
"cover work"

we just planned what we wanted and
it all worked out very well in the end

it was a very
enjoyable day

in practical ways I'm better
fed, better looked after

thanks to Bruce, generally better
organised than I was before

he is very good at
financial organisation and...

running bank accounts and
be sensible when I aren't

Firstly when we got married
one of the odd things was

her mother said "Oh good there's someone
to look after Penny and cook her meals"

rather than the other way
around which sometimes happens

What was the biggest shock
about being married?

Well I think three bags of
clothes getting chucked out

two of which didn't even
make it to the charity shop

- Is that right dear?
- Yes!

But I suppose some of them
were crusty old flares, I don't know

perhaps they deserved
to get chucked out

Does he think that the discovery of gold
was a good thinkg for the Transvaal?

She's very determined
and doesn't let things go

especially with school, she wants
everything to be well done

she prepares lessons
way into the future

and shes very
sensitive and responsive

and helps me act
in a better way

I might become
petulant or something

and it's somehow not
appropriate in that situation

my hearts desire
is to see my daddy

who is six thousand
miles away

I can remember
being happy there

I can remember
also being miserable

because I can
remember crying

I always seemed to be beaten on
and never used to understand why

Squad
halt!

People possibly say I'm a little
innocent at times or naive

and I used to get worried
about this and think...

perhaps I ought not to
be taken in or deceived or...

I'm not talking about love now I'm
just talking about generally speaking

I think I do have a
greater level of confidence

especially in expressing
myself and holding opinions

I think if you're having a
partnership with somebody

it definitely makes you
more mature in a way, because

you're not thinking about yourself all the
time, you're thinking about someone else

What ambitions do
you have now?

I may become a senior
teacher at some point here

but I don't really have aspirations to
become a deputy head and a head teacher

Why?

You do tend to move out of
the classroom at that stage

and also you have
to go on courses

an M.A. in educational
studies and so on and..

y'know, our lives are
busy enough really

I'm in a sort of middle-aged
mode at the moment

where middle-aged content
is the best description

Go on
Potter!

How are you
doing dear?

Fine thank
you dear

If you saw me running around
the cricket field now after a ball

it's just comical, it's just a
lumbering old man, y'know?

no flowing swoop and
hurling in of the ball

it's all gone, that lifeness,
that youth, it's just gone

Not so
fast!

We may have
children I don't know

if in seven years time or so we're
living in a slightly bigger house...

with a young family
that would be nice

I don't want to pin all my hopes
on it and nothing happens

we are
quite old

I can see bringing up teenage children
in your fifties might be a bit strange

Looking back on your life, half way
through say, what regrets do you have?

Now I'm married
to a lovely person

that takes out some regrets
that may have been or...

I missed my chance
there or something

and you never know what
the future will hold for you

and I think I'm lucky
to have found Penny

He is the nicest
person I've ever met

he's just somebody you
could rely on the whole time

Oh I might quote
that sometime!

he's
not...

he's not the kind of man you
would ever have any doubts about

Some people from
Africa come here

but when they go they
put their clothes on

Jackie, Lynn and Sue all grew
up in the Eastend of London

and were friends in
the same junior school

- Well I've never been abroad
- No, nor have I - I have

- Oh yeah 'cause you went on
that cruise didn't you - Yeah

I've had the opportunities
in life that I've wanted

- I've had more opportunities than...
- Yeah right, you've made

I think that we
all could've gone

and not any way that we wanted to
at the time within our capabilities

I mean, we chose
our own jobs

we were able to choose
our own jobs quite freely

Well we only had a limited
choice anyway, truth be told

we didn't have a choice of private education
because we couldn't have afforded it anyway

I wish I had wanted something
that bad that I had to go for it

I really hope that my two want
something and are hungry for it

and they'll go for
it, I'd love that

they have different things, technology has
taken off so much in the last ten years

- Yes computers and...
- They have access to a lot more

I think in some way an awful
lot more than we had

I'm going to work
in Woolworths

Well I'm a school mobile librarian
and assistant to the young peoples office

which is where
we are now

At twenty-one, Lynne had set out on
a career working in a mobile library

in Tower Hamlets
in East London

Sleeping Beauty

Teaching children
the beauty of books

and watching their faces
as books unfold for them

is just
fantastic

to work with children of that age you've
got to love them, and I love children

Because of cuts in the education budget,
Tower Hamlets closed the mobile library

and Lynne went to
work in Bethnal Green

One of the jobs that was going
was divisional children's librarian

and they
based me here

they hadn't had a children's
librarian here for nine years

you can draw,
better than I can

right, the story I've got for you this
morning is called the magic bicycle

and it's all
about Mark

I do regular class visits with nineteen
to twenty classes, more than that...

coming into the library and within that
we do either story telling or library skills

but, he
couldn't ride it

I've been a governor of schools in
Tower Hamlets for twelve, thirteen years

in chair of governor's
at the moment

I've had the parent on the phone two or three
times this week wondering what's happening

they wanted to come in and discuss
with me and the co-ordinator

about how well the
project was going

and to observe
a lesson

- Can you ever see yourself not working?
- No

I like the excitement, I
like the push of filling my life

it's
stimulating

there are times I go home
I'm absolutely shattered

I go home,
I go to sleep

Well I know he loves
her and he loves her

I don't
I love him

I had an all white
wedding, all white

We were both in white and
my bridesmaid was in white

I've been married
a year and...

a couple
of months

you do think "christ,
what have I done?"

- See I've still got my ideals
- and I'm being honest about it!

and my husband thinks the same, at times
you think "christ, what have I done?"

Lynne married Russ at nineteen, they
have two daughters, Sara and Emma

We married young but because we wanted
to go out and have fun together

and grow
together

How do you manage to keep a
career going and bring up a family

- and hold a marriage together?
- We've always had a very good partnership

I couldn't do
it without him

Russ cooks during the week,
I cook at weekends

it's not as if I'm going running home
to cook a meal for everybody

I know that when I get
home it's going to be done

we're there together
and we love each other

and we've
never stopped

if I could I would have
two girls and two boys

Yeah so
will I!

Used by a doctor in medicines
in controlled doses is fine

fifty percent of teenagers between
fourteen and eighteen have tried drugs

I think Emma's more like me, Sara's
much more placid, she's like Russ

with the girls in their teens
now I've looked back and thought

Emma is very
much like I was

Emma's just done her
GCSE's and got ten

gone back to sixth form
college and doing A-levels

she doesn't know
what she wants to do

she's got her own life now
and she's building that life

and she's making
her own decisions

we go through stages
"the terrible two's"

seemingly at the time when you're
going through them it seem terrible

they're never
ever going to end

but I know my mum
and dad would say

"Don't worry, it will go,
you'll come through it"

"to the next stage
and the next stage"

and I think it's
ongoing like that

I'd love to be able to talk to
my mum and dad and say

"did I really put
you through that?"

I remember some of it
and god, yes I must've

until you go through it with
your own you never ever realise

what hell you put
your parents through

By the time she was thirty-five
Lynne's mother had died

She was a great friend
to me as well as a mum

probably the best
friend I'll ever have

it's only
two years

for some it probably seems
like "Oh it's a long time"

it's not
very long

the biggest area of my life
that's changed since we last talked

is I lost
my dad

and literally just after
35up went out he died

they looked after the
girls while I worked

after mum died the first thing
dad said was "that's my job now"

and of course suddenly
we had neither of them

At thirty-five Lynne was having
a health problem of her own

they stuck all these
tubes up inside me

and discovered that
I've got these veins

up here, that
shouldn't be there

- In your brain?
- Yes

- And what can they do about it?
- Not a lot at the moment

they're
investigating other...

...treatments, but
the surgeon said that...

he doesn't want to operate at the
moment as it's too near the optic nerve

well it's never going to
go away, I've still got this

vein malformation,
it'll always be there

obviously I had
it from birth

there's a one percent
chance that it could haemmorage

I've got more chance of being
knocked down crossing the street

and in that perspective I
don't worry about it at all

- Do you think about dying a lot?
- No it doesn't worry me at all

my dad
taught me that

he wasn't scared
of death at all

it's the people that
are left behind

that take the brunt
of someone dying

- Is there a spiritual
side to your life? - Yes

- Can you talk about that?
- No

Why?

It's private, it's
personal, it's me

it's part of what makes
me up and makes me, me

sometimes things are
not good, are they?

and I know that you would've
thought about that...

- Do you think morality has
changed in your lifetime? - Yes

I think we've lost an
awful lot of morality

a lot of values in
my opinion have gone

Like what?

Respect

there seems to be a great
lack of respect for anything

I think that's what makes part of it
hard bringing up children hard nowadays

because our values are so high and
expecting them to maintain those values

- Are you asking too much of them?
- You do expect a lot from them

but I think I'm
flexible aswell

I'm learning
when to let go

I mean, for
me I'm lucky

everything's
worked out

these girl have lost a
relationship but gained new ones

for them, that's the
way their life's gone

- Russ and I have been together...
- I actually envy you that

- Of course, we both do
- I envy you that because...

I don't
know how

whatever the reasoning behind it
you and Russ have made that work

- and that was something that I failed at
- and me yeah, it's a failure definitely

If we did all love Jeffrey and
we all wanted to marry him

I think I know the one that
he'd like best and that's her

I don't think I'd get
married too early

I'd like to have a full life
first and meet people

- I'd like to enjoy myself before I...
- Yeah, before you commit yourself

to a
family

We had a
teacher at school

his favourite
ploy was...

"All you girls
want to do is...

walk out, get married,
have babies and push a pram

down the street with a fag hanging
out of the side of your mouth

Marriage means a
different thing to me

I've still got my ideals about marriage
I don't know what it's all about

Sue was twenty-four
when she married Billy

they had two children,
William and Katherine

I think that to get married young
there must be things that you miss

you must miss that crucial
stage of being yourself

because the minute you get married
you're no longer a single being

you're a partnership and that
should be the idea behind it

By the time she was thirty-five
she and Billy had divorced

I've never sat
down and thought

well, what was it? was
it this? was it that?

I just knew it
wasn't working

there has been relationships
when I could've settled

but they didn't
feel quite right, so...

so I've always come
away and pulled away

and just waited until
the right one came along

if they
ever do!

deep down I probably wish
I wasn't having to do this

I'd like to still be married and I'd like
to have that steady relationship

but I'm the type of person that likes to
go out and likes to have a good time

so it's not that
hard for me, but

I think as you get into your
forties you start thinking...

well, maybe I
should slow down a bit

I've been a single parent for a long
while and brought them up on my own

because Katherine was
only two when Bill left

it's been
extremely hard

and sometimes it's
been very lonely

Do you think William
misses not having a dad?

He probably does, he doesn't
talk an awful lot about it

he seems so together, he's quite deep,
so he doesn't say an awful lot

he's got my dad,
my dad's there

my children probably owe
a lot to my mum and dad

my mum and dad have
been absolutely brilliant

with William, I want him to
have a really satisfying career

which is something
I've never really had

for him I would love that, well for
both of them but particularly for him

'cause he can go far if
he puts his mind to it

he may go to university,
we have talked about it

if he does well,
he's capable of it

with Katherine she talks about doing
things like hairdressing an girly things

'cause she doesn't really know
what she wants to do yet

she just wants to enjoy
herself at the moment

I can remember being the
same when I was her age

but she loves babies and she
keeps saying "mum I want a baby"

and I say "don't even
think about it!"

It was hard first of all when I gave
up work from having a fairly high salary

...to nothing
was hard

but you get used to it,
whatever your circumstances are

you live in them, you get used to
them and you cope, everybody does

When her children were old enough
to go to school, Sue started work again

she has an office job in the law
faculty of the University of London

I've always
worked, but...

anyone who has got teenagers
knows how expensive it is, and

there are times when I can't quite
manage what I'd like to with them

especially school trips
and things like that

I've got certain little savings
things that I do for them

and policies that will come
out when they're twenty-one

and hopefully things like when
they get married or want a car, then...

they're the times that are
hard when you're on your own

#your guitar, it
sounds so sweet#

we've all got little secret
dreams and I love to sing

along with
millions of others

#it's just
the radio#

but didn't want to give up work and
risk all that to follow the dream

there's still lots
of places I want to go

lots of wild things that I want to
do like jumping out of a plane

silly things that you can do but
you just never seem to get around too

you just never seem to get around to
it but I think you should make sure you do

I'm just basically
a happy person

I don't get upset in
front of the kids

and that's important, I don't
ever want to upset them

because there has been times when
I've been hurt over the last few years

but I've done my best to keep that
from them and they don't need that

I'm with someone now
which is nice, it feels right

but it's early
days yet

regrets... everyone wants
to be a perfect parent but...

I'm not, I do
the best I can

I can't say it's the worst part
of me that I go out such a lot

because I don't
think it hurts them

it's a completely different lifestyle that
I've got compared to my mum and dad

but they are always
there for me and..

they're more responsible
for the way my kids are than I am

I would like to get
married when I grow up

I don't know what sort of
boy but I think one...

thats not got
lot of money but...

has got some
money, not a lot

Have you got
any boy friends?

oh...

that's personal
isn't it!

I don't like the way you
came out with that

We shan't tell
him... shall we?

It was horrific really, the cake
what happened to the wedding cake

it was sitting right
in between Mick and myself

suddenly the columns just completely
gave way and it just all fell into one

I would say on average
nineteen is probably too young

By the time she was thirty-five,
Jackie and Mick had divorced

We decided ourselves,
just between the two of us

we knew it wasn't
going any further

we both knew at the end of the day we
would be happier leading our own lives

My mum, 'cause she's got five
girls she had seven years bad luck

that's why she's
got five girls

I'd like to be able to
have a happy family

I know that's not possible
to be happy all the time

but as much of the
time that was possible

Go through there
that's the nursery

- Got any plans?
- Oh do me a favour

She and Mick had decided early
on that they didn't want children

Basically, I would say
because I'm far too selfish

I enjoy doing what I want,
when I want and how I want

and certainly at the moment I
can't see any way around that

and it's not to say that
that's a forever decision

and this one
off, here we go

oh
yeah

had a brief but very sweet
relationship result which was Charlie

cor blimey Charlie you just have to
clean your teeth, not eating the brush

it's the best thing that
could've happened to me

and I could never
have believed...

that I could enjoy a child
as much as i enjoy him

anybody that wanted to
know just got told, I was pregnant

I wasn't with the father,
end of story

give us
a cuddle

I don't really want Charlie
to be an only child

I'd love him to have
brothers and sisters

but not neccesarily loads of
them! just one would do actually!

- right Charlie, there's yours
- right

- and please eat it all up
- I will

- and James
- thanks mum - good boy

and last but
not least

are you going to eat
that one for me?

After her relationship with
Charlie's father ended

she met Ian and had
two more sons

which one is the most
like you, do you think?

At the moment, personality-wise
it's probably James

he's the cheeky one, he's the
one that's full of confidence

Charlie's the quieter one,
Charlie's the grown up

Lee's an absolute
bullet

if he wants to do
something he just does it

no fear
of anything

but they're all good boys, you
can take them almost anywhere

- Almost?
- Almost anywhere yeah!

What's the
most fun?

The little things that
they come out with

the sheer unexpected
pleasure of them

I don't know, it's really
hard to describe, y'know?

they come out with so
many different comments

Finished!

this is actually a place
called Newmains

which is about a forty minute
drive from Glasgow

and about a fifteen minute
drive from Motherwell

So how did
you land up here?

Well because the boys dad's Scottish
and this is his home town

and we
decided that...

Charlie was what? five? about to start
school and it was now or never

if we hadn't moved then I don't
think we would ever have done it

but obviously I'm glad we did, there's
a lot more here for the boys

they've got a lot more
freedom here

the way the people treat each
other is more like a village

and it's a good advert I
think, a very good advert

I like it far more than
I ever did London

Not long after settling in Scotland,
Ian and Jackie split up

Right
James

We're here living on our own
although he's a regular visitor

and sees the children
quite often

Lee

when any couple parts, and I don't care
how good or bad the terms were

there's always a tendency
for recrimination

just the usual petty "this was your
fault... this was yours... " y'know?

and blaming
each other

and it took us a long time to realise
how much the boys were listening to us

'cause they could so easily have grown
up thinking that it was their fault

and it wasn't, not in any
way shape or form

they just happened to be
the unlucky victims of it

What would you do if you had
lots of money? about two pounds

I would buy myself a
nice new made house

one that's all
nice and comfy

When Ian and I split up I went into
temporary accomodation

and I got housed a
couple of miles from here

but that was furnished because I
didn't have anything to take with me

I was there seven weeks
and they offered me this one

with the help of family and
friends and word goes out

"Jackie's needing some stuff"
and it all just suddenly arrived

the poor, if you don't help them
they'd sort of die soon wouldn't they

I don't cope financially,
without my mother-in-law...

stepping in to fill the
gap, I wouldn't be coping

It's really hard to explain it to
anyone who's not had to do it

but you may, get
to a point where...

either that bill doesn't get paid
or your children don't eat

so obviously your
children eat

which means my
mother-in-law pays the bill

or she makes sure that my food's in for
the following week so I can pay the bills

but it... it's not
easy to live like it

she's
brilliant

if I couldv'e chosen a mother-in-law
she's the one I would've chosen

she's great for me, she's absolutely
brilliant with the children

she's just always there
when I need her to be

at the moment, a career is probably
about the furthest thing from my mind

and I don't really know what I'm aiming
for, except to get the house together

my father had a
reasonably good education

he never went to
the local school

but at the
same time

I don't think he was too worried
which way I decided to go

oh I've no doubts
I could've done more

certainly when I was younger it was
probably laziness that stopped me

when we did the last program there was
a comment my father made which was

maybe he should've pushed
me a little bit harder

and I think maybe in
retrospect he should've done

and that's probably the one thing I'll
do with mine that he didn't do with me

I think I shall push them
just that little bit harder

James, you watch, you're
catching up to him

go on
Lee

I was working up here
until very recently

but they discovered I've
got rheumatoid arthritis

so at the moment that's
put work on hold

it's painful, very painful, particularly
my hands, feet and shoulders

it can be almost
crippling at times

I get tired and that obviously makes
life awkward at home with the children

well there's
certainly no cure

at the moment they're trying
to stem it so it gets no worse

whether we're having much success
at that? it's still quite early days

so I really don't know, I certainly
don't feel that great at the moment

- Are we ready?
- Yes

go

swimming is one of the
best things for arthritis

it can help as long as
you don't over do it

but having said that
I'll pay for it tomorrow

I'll be stiff
tomorrow

I shouldn't
really lift Lee

if Lee wants a cuddle he should sit on
my lap and I should cuddle him on my lap

but how do you tell a four
year old you can't lift them

I can't stop being his mum
just because I'm not well

Do you remember those
scenes at twenty-one

when we were showing them
round the house at East tilbury?

- We've come a long way haven't we?
- Just a bit! oh god!

Yeah infact don't flash back
to that at this point please!

just the double chins
and the age and...

the funny part
about it is

you don't think about your age until
you think about something like that

when you think how
many years ago that was

and it was all so
new and so fresh

and yet I've done exactly the same
now, I've just started all over again

but with three children
in tow this time

but
that's life

There was so much
hope then wasn't there

There still is,
oh there still is

don't make that
mistake Mike

I am down and
depressed about my illness

but I'm certainly not down
and depressed about my life

I will not...
nothing's going to do that

I've got three wonderful boys,
I've got a loving family around me

I'm lucky, there's a lot of people
that are a lot worse off than I am

a lot
of people

When I grow
up I'd like to

find out all about
the moon and all that

Nick, a farmers son, grew
up in the Yorkshire Dales

I said was interested in Physics and
Chemistry but I'm not going to do that here

at fourteen he was
away at boarding school

and at twenty-one
reading physics at Oxford

So what career are
you going to pursue?

It depends whether I'll be good
enough to do what I want to really do

I would like if I can,
to do research

the gas in these experiments is
a temperature comparable with the sun

whereas in a power reactor it'll be maybe
ten times the temperature of the sun

and we're trying to
induce that gas to fuse

by twenty-eight he
had moved to America

and was doing research into nuclear
fusion at the university of Wisconsin

by thirty-five he was an
associate professor there

the
first one

is basically
saying that the

rate of change of crystal momentum,
it's DDT this quantity H-bar K

that is equal to
the Lorentz force

so if you work out
the density in any cell...

In addition to now being a full professor
I've been doing some administrative jobs

I've been associate
chair of my department

I've run the graduate program in my
department which is electrical engineering

I've been
running admissions

and dealing with student problems
and so on for the graduate program

and I've spent the last year
and a half writing a couple of books

one about this business of using
plasmas to process semiconductors

and another one about semiconductors,
it's called "Semiconductor Devices"

and it's got a subtitle
"A Simulation Approach"

Do you have
a girl friend?

I don't want
to answer that

I don't want to answer
those kind of questions

I thought that one would
come up because when I was...

when I was doing the
other one somebody said

"what do you think about girls?" and
I said "I don't answer questions like that

is that the reason you're
asking it? yeah I thought so

the best answer would be to say
that I don't answer questions like that

it was what I said when I was
seven and it's still the most sensible

but I mean,
what about them?

Nick was only seventeen
when I first met him

and I knew he
was a nice person

I find him very
attractive and

he uses his intelligence in his
relationship with me which is very important

His English born wife Jackie is a
professor of journalism at the university

they have an eight
year old son

Why only
one child?

Well there's a couple
of reasons, one is that these...

silly jobs we have demand
such an amount of time

and such a commitment
that it's hard to fit in one

also he's such a lively person
and he demands so much attention

that he makes it hard
to find time for another

so I think that's
the main reason

- So you don't want another one?
- Oh yes, no I would love to

I would dearly love to
have another one actually

no, don't go away with that
impression, I absolutely adore children

if I could change the world
I'd change it into a diamond

but I don't think I've done anything
that you can call a great success

It would seem really ridiculous to any
of my friends who watch this if I said

"Christ aren't I a great
success, look at me"

When I first met you, I remember
I thought this was very idealistic

but it was rather interesting when
I asked you why you're working on fusion

you said you wanted
to save the world

and I think that's embarrasing now
but I don't think you'd feel the same way

about something that
you didn't feel mattered

I always wanted to have
an impact to do something useful

that was actually
going to benefit people

I had this vision of people in
ivory towers being cut off

doing stuff all their lives and
having no effect on anybody

and that was not
what I wanted to do

so I chose to go into
this fusion business

'cause I thought this
would have a huge impact

I'm not expecting to be reported in
newspaper headlines anytime soon

that's not the limit of my ambition
but it's just trying to be realistic

I'm just going to have to try and
settle for reasonably small victories

they'd like to come out for
a holiday in the country

when I'd like to have
a holiday in the town

Do you get
lonely here?

You tend to get stuck into your everyday
routine and you don't think about it

but when you call home, then
you realise how far away you are

and now it seems acute because
both our families are getting older

even if you think in terms of
seeing them once every two years

- That's not so many times, is it.
- You're thinking only about 10 times

and that's
awful

This year, Nick went back to
the Dales to see his family

It's been five years
since I've been back here

it's changed quite a
lot, it's got more touristy

and less like an area that's farmed as
every second house seems to be a hotel

it's been rotten for my dad as he's
been unable to walk a lot of the time

he's had terrible
troubles with his legs

and of course farming is in
a miserable shape so he's retiring

and the animals
have been sold

I think he's had
a very hard life

he's had to work enormous
hours everyday of his life

doing something that
ultimately isn't going to work

- Do you want to take up farming?
- No, I'm not interested in it

my youngest brother's deaf, if he can't
do anything else he can probably run it

if he can't...
as a last resort

So your brothers won't
take over on the farm?

Absolutely not, no, neither
of them really wanted to I think

Andrew's a newspaper reporter
he's going to take a job near York

he's going to need a base over
there, he can't commute from here

well Chris was married which
is great, she's a very nice wife

who is getting better and better
at communicating with the deaf

and he works in Skipton, he's
taking some courses in computers

I'm not sure what but
he always says to me

that I do computers and I think
it's a good idea he does computers

so I try to
encourage him

So you're all away? so the
Hitchin's are finished here?

Yes the Hitchin's are certainly largely
uprooted from here aren't they

I'm the only child in the village
except for my baby brother

well this is Arncliff school where my
brother and I went to from age five to ten

and there's the church where we
were all christened and everything

we used to go to harvest
festivals and things there

What did you learn here
that you've carried with you?

Well you just look at this place
and it's utterly beautiful but...

not beautiful in a pretty cutesy way
I think of it as being magnificent

but rather
grim really

I feel as if you could look
deep somewhere inside me

I feel like there's some
of this in there somewhere

and it's rather dour
but just wonderful

it's very uncomprimising and
sometimes it's rather tragic

but it makes other places you
go seem rather trivial as well

I'm enormously proud of
having come from here

even the people, the idea of being a
Dale's person is very important to me

what you see that's so magnificent
are the clouds sweeping by all the time

air and cloud and water
continually sweeping over you

there's a poetic side to that, I would
be looking at these and thinking now...

how does a
cloud work?

when you come down to it, what I
do when I'm trying to solve equations

it's the same equations that describe
clouds and water and air flowing around

so from a scientific point of view
I relate back to this sort of thing

- It's hard being away from your roots?
- Terribly hard

it's hard in lots
and lots of ways, if...

you go to an alien culture you don't know
what's going on around you half the time

it's really strange to go
to a different country

people don't send out
the same signals

it's very hard to imagine
being able to come back here

I think about it a lot but I
haven't seen the way to do it yet

in some sense it never really belonged to me
part of me would love to own a stake in it

but I really don't own any
of it but the other thing is...

I've had to move out of here and
I think that the way the world is

it's very hard to stay in one place
people are forced to move constantly

the history of this century has a lot of
examples where people moved or should've

and professionally and
in lots of other ways

it's really important that
people are always thinking about...

what's happening around them
and how they have to react to it

beauty is transient, so maybe
we can come by here and visit it

but unfortunately I'm not going
to be permitted to be here very much

I don't
like

the big boys
hitting me

and the prefects sending
us out for nothing

When he was seven, Paul was
in care in a children's home in London

were you happy at the
children's home in England?

We didn't mind that really as
we didn't know what was going on

'cause I was a
bit young then

well my mother and father
separated originally I think

they eventually
got divorced

I went to the boarding school for one
year, then we emigrated to Australia

my father
got remarried

Paul settled with his father and
step-mother in a suburb of Melbourne

what mark has it left on you, the fact
that you were brought up in a bad marriage

The only thing I can say may have
came from that is my lack of confidence

and being able to
show my feelings

Would you like to
get married Paul?

- Tell me why not
- I don't like...

say you
had a wife

say you had to eat
what they cooked you

and say, I don't like
vegetables, well I don't

and say she says "you have
to eat what you get given"

so I don't like vegetables,
say she gives me vegetables?

then
that's it!

I know I prefer
to be alone really

I can't say I don't want to
get married, 'cause I think I do

but I want to be happily married
and therefore I want to make sure

What was it that you fell in
love with, what is it about him?

His helplessness I suppose,
brings out the mothering instinct in me

can pick him up
and cuddle him and

he's also very good looking I
think but he doesn't agree with me

and in the summer he's got
this cute little bum in shorts

I can tell quite a
few stories here but

the one that really irritates me the
most is when we have an argument he says

"that's it, leave me" and I
say "fine alright, I will one day"

So how's married life
been since I last saw you?

Oh shocking!
shocking!

We had our twentieth wedding
anniversary just before christmas

Which was
a life sentence

Yeah! everyone reckons
we should be out of jail by now

By the time they were twenty-eight,
Paul and Sue had two children

Katie and
Robert

when he was thirty-five he brought
his family to London for a holiday

to show them where
he had started out

When we had Katie when
she was born Paul said to me

"Oh I'm glad I've
got a daughter" he said

"When I'm an old man at least she'll
come up and give me a kiss and a cuddle"

She is also the
shy one of the two

which is probably
followed after me a bit

Well Katie
loves to shop

we're starting to learn more of what
we share alike, she's very much like Paul

and she doesn't quite know what
she really wants to do just yet

I really love painting and art and I
love music and she has taken to that

she seems to have
the creative flair

what does
university mean?

I'm pretty
happy with Katie

and I'm not having a go at Rob
but I've got fears for Robert

'cause he's
struggling a little bit

and he's had three
teachers already

lets say they don't
know how to motivate him

Robert had started school and
he was having a few problems

he's a square
peg in a round hole

in the normal mainstream schools so
we've moved him to another high school

that's a community school
which is much more relaxed

and as a family
unit we're a lot calmer

I was going to be a policeman but I
thought how hard it would be to join in

I just haven't made up my mind yet
I was gonna be a gym teacher but

one of the teachers
told me that

I had to get up
into the university

At twenty-one, Paul was working as a
junior partner for a firm of bricklayers

by twenty-eight he had gone
out on his own as a sub-contractor

but it didn't
work out

Well I've gone from being stable in
one job which was the brick-laying, to..

I've probably had about ten or
fifteen jobs, I've never counted them

although I haven't been sacked from
jobs I just haven't been able to settle

Paul now works for a plastics
company, installing industrial signs

I think I've got to a stage
now I just want to stay in work

two or three years ago I tried to
increase my skills and went to school

and did a carpentry certificate as
I wanted to work as a carpenter

but I found there was too many
good carpenters that were out of work

so I didn't go
too far with that

I suppose partly it's due to
my lack of confidence in myself

and the monitors up in the
wash room sends the nurse out

well there's no talking,
no I wasn't talking today

and Brown sent
me out for nothing

I find it hard to express
emotion most of the time

although I'm getting
on top of that

I'm more
than happy now

just the simple things to say to Susan,
like "I love you" or something like that

I mean I can tell
you about it but

I really haven't been able
to say it freely to Sue, y'know?

- Is confidence still an issue with you?
- Yeah unfortunately

I've learned
to live with it

sort of accept it but I've
never really got on top of it fully

which really
annoys me

there's nothing I
can do about it though

I'm more at peace around
the horses and the animals

I can be upset and on edge
and come down to the horses

and within three or four minutes
I've forgotten everything

so it does
calm me down

but I can be a
pretty angry person

and...

in the wrong circumstances
I can fire up terribly

but fortunately it doesn't
happen to often these days

At the beginning of this year Paul and
Sue moved to another Melbourne suburb

It's like living in a palace
compared to our other house

it's nearly
twice the size

There's probably a few more professional
people live around this area

- So you've moved up the market a bit?
- Yes we have

we got to the point where we
had paid the other house off so...

I suppose it's forced
us to save too

I think we will
have to spend less

We wouldn't manage
just on Paul's wage alone

it's the difference sometimes between
eating not eating and just paying bills

most people these days
rely on two wages to survive

I've been doing mobile hairdressing
now since Robert was a baby

with this job I go and cut peoples hair
but it's like going visiting all day

some of the people don't want me there
doing their hair, they just want a chat

tell them what I've been up to and for
them to tell me what they've been up to

I've got twenty-three
thrupenny coins

and I don't know how many
half-penny coins I have now

I spend,
yeah I spend

he doesn't save because I
don't give him any to save, basically

these days you don't get a
pay packet, well I get money as I go

Paul's wages are paid straight into the
bank and it's really no money anymore

you don't see it, it goes straight into the
bank then all your money comes out

it's just
pretend isn't it

I quite often joke that it's a myth
that I actually get paid at all!

because I haven't seen any
money for some years now!

In their twenties Paul and Sue sold up
bought a van and travelled Australia

I think it brought us closer together
because we really got to know each other

and we relied on
each other so much

When I was younger I definitely
wanted to move out of Melbourne

I would've only needed
that encouragement from Sue

if Susan had been exactly the same
then we wouldn't be here now

I think as I'm getting older I'm
more nervous about doing that

I still know there's a huge
amount of space out there

I don't know why but
obviously that's important to me

it's just such a beautiful country
right down to the barren land

What's the most fun in life
at the moment for the two of you?

- I'd say christmas holidays
- Yeah christmas holidays

with the kids 'cause
the kids love it

we had a great summer this year and
we had a whole week of great weather

it's what a family should be and
that's why it stands out I suppose

I guess I do feel middle aged
but I'm pretty comfortable with it

I always remember when I was younger I
always looked forward to getting older

and hopefully into
my eighties even

it's never been something
that really worried me

one of our ambitions was
always just to grow old together

that's true, we
used to say that

I keep telling my children
"isn't it nice to be loved"

to know that someone loves you, it must
be really sad for people out there...

that have no one, that don't
know that they're loved

and each day, sometimes you're coming
home and think "well they'll all be home"

and it's nice to
just come home

I read the
Financial Times

I read the Observer
and The Times

What do you like
about it John?

Well I usually look at the
headlines and read about them

...about
it

What's the point
of the program?

it's the point of the program is
to reach a comparison

and I don't
think it is

- Good point
- Because we're not typical examples

and I think that's what people
seeing the program might think

falsely

I mean, they
tend to typecast us

So everything we
say, they'll think...

"oh that's a typical result of
a public school system"

That's one of the troubles
with this sort of program

I don't really
think that people like us

Unless we're seven and being rather
funny, have very much to say that's...

very interesting,
because I mean...

we don't know
very much

Well we didn't know very
much when we were seven

- But we were still quite funny
- We were at least funny!

- Yes! - Yes!
- In ourselves!

I agree with John, all we
can say is what we think

and if that's of interest to
people, good luck to them

I'm going to
Charterhouse

and after that,
Trinity Hall Cambridge

Andrew went to Charterhouse
and Cambridge, where he read law

I'd like to
be a solicitor

and also fairly
successful

at twenty-eight
Andrew was a solicitor

What qualities do you think
it needs to be successful?

Well you have to have a legal
ability in my business, obviously

and you have to have a bed-side manner
as far as your clients are concerned

there's no good being brilliant if you
can't communicate with your clients

by thirty-five he had
become a partner

well I work in the corporate department
of a large firm of solicitors in the city

that is dealing
with things like

mergers and acquisitions, joint
ventures, general corporate advice

putting deals
together for clients

I suppose the pace
has changed a bit as...

with technology people expect
work done much faster than they did...

well perhaps not seven years
ago but fourteen years ago

our practise has got
much more international

we've more business travel, we have
offices in places like Sao Paolo in Brazil

Moscow,
Thailand

How has that changed your
life or your part in the company?

Well it means you're under increasing
pressure to produce things quickly

- And how is that for you?
- That's fine

you have to meet the pressures, that's
what people come and see you for

What do you think about
girlfriends at your age?

I've got one but I
don't think much of her

They're no
longer just bores

"We won't play this"
or something

they're the other half of
the community and they're there

and you can begin
to talk to them

I don't think I financially come
from the same background

Andrew didn't go for a classy debutante,
he went for a good Yorkshire lass

but obviously he knew
what he wanted

By the time he was twenty-eight,
Andrew had married Jane

I think I'm quite down to earth and
less extravagant than some women are

I don't go out and buy lots of expensive
dresses, I just buy one or two

and I even let
her pay for them!

Well I suppose the most important thing
that's happened is we've had two children

one, five years ago, Alexander, then
a couple of years later, Timothy

when I see the children
playing together now

I realise how much fun
they have together

and it's probably what I
missed being an only child

What's the most difficult thing about
keeping the marriage together?

I don't think it is
particularly difficult actually

we seem to
manage alright

- Would you say?
- I think so, we talk don't we

We have a situation where we
retain a babysitter once a week

and we make a point that once a week we
always go out by ourselves, mid-week

and I think that's
quite important

Do you worry about
not having a career

and what will happen when
the children leave home?

Well I do but I've made
that decision now

and I've come
to terms with it

if I wanted a career I would
but I wanted to be a mother

and to be a
full-time mother

it's our children's half-term so we
decided to spend a few days in New York

I come here from time to time on
my work but it's usually very rough

but we thought it would be
rather nice to bring them with us

smile!

I think it's not a bad
idea to pay for schools

because if
we didn't

schools would be so
nasty and crowded

Yes, so do
I think so

- and the people in the schools wouldn't...
- and the poor people would come rushing in

and the man in charge of the
school would get very angry

and he would
get bankrupt

he wouldn't be able to pay all the
teachers if he didn't get any money

education is
very important

and you can never be sure of leaving
your children any wordly goods, but

at least you can be sure that once
you've given them a good education

that's something that
no one can take away

well Alexander is
coming up into his teens

and he'll be sitting common entrance to
go to his next school later in the year

which will be
a boarding school

infact he's down to go to the
same school that I went to

Timothy is continuing
where he is now for a while

and perhaps be going
through the same procedure

Well I think boarding makes
you feel self-sufficient

and also teaches you to be
away from your parents

and to live with
people for a long time

It's going to seem
very very strange

but if it's what he wants to do and it
helps him to get where he wants to go

then I'm prepared to only
see him every three weeks

Once I had a talk to Grevil,
he was in my class

and

I asked Sir if he could put him out of my
class as he was always getting minuses

I think it's become much more
competetive for children nowadays

I don't really remember much
about my early childhood but...

I feel that they are under
more pressure to perform now

you look back at us at
the age of seven saying...

we're going to this school,
that university and so on

but there have been many places
where one could've gone wrong

just because you have the opportunities
it doesn't mean you will pull through

Where might you have
gone wrong do you think?

Well one could've given up on university
or found the pressures of work too much

one could've found the
pressures of marriage too much

all sorts of things
can go wrong

and what is it in you that's
pulled you through?

Well I suppose it's
just being persistant

I don't like
giving up

and perhaps it's also not
being too adventurous

not wanting to do anything
else once you start

I've been in my job for twenty years and
not really wanted to do anything else

when I leave this school
I'm going to Collet Court

and then I would be going to Westminster
Boarding School if I pass the exam

and then we think I'm going
to Cambridge and Trinity Hall

John went to Westminster and
read Law at Christchurch Oxford

I do believe parents have a right to
educate their children as they think fit

and I think
someone who works

on an assembly line on some of these
car factories, earning a huge wage

could well afford to send their children
to private school if they wanted to

At twenty-one we asked him
what career he would pursue

Might be in
the courts

Doing
what?

Perhaps
Chancery practise

I now have a career,
I'm a Barrister

other than that life chugs
along in varying degrees

When boys go around with girls they
don't pay attention to what they're doing

for instance my grandmother
had an accident, because

a boyfriend was kissing
his girlfriend in the street

John married Claire, the daughter of
a former ambassador to Bulgaria

he has a very successful career
at the courts and is now a Q.C.

He decided not to
take part in this film

When I leave school, I'm going
to the Dragons School, I might

and after I might go to
Charterhouse Marlborough

I can't remember
all the other places

as mummy's got so many but
those are some of them

What about
university Charles?

I might go
to Oxford

Charles went to Marlborough
but he didn't go to Oxford

instead he went to
Durham university

I'd say I'm pleased
I didn't, because

it was very
much a sort of...

sort of Marlborough
prep school

Marlborough, Oxbridge
conveyor belt

and you get shoved
out at the end

and what did Charles
want to do?

it's hard
to say

probably scribbling away
in some basement

for some London
newspaper or something

Charles did scribble away
for an East London newspaper

he then moved on to the BBC
where he became a producer

he is now editor of science
documentaries at Channel 4

he decided not to take
part in this documentary

Well we pretend
we've got swords

and we make the noises
of the swords fighting

and when somebody stabs
us we go "ARRGHHH!"

Neil grew up in
a Liverpool suburb

in the winter if you
live in the country

it would just all be wet and there
wouldn't be anything for miles around

and you get soaked
if you try to go out

and there's no shelter anywhere
except in your own house

but in the town you can
go out on wet wintery days

'cause you can always find somewhere to
shelter 'cause there's lots of places

At fourteen he was at a
local comprehensive school

I think it's a very good
idea to have competition

otherwise you might start
to relax and not try hard enough

being in Set One is very very
hard to keep up with the leaders

I never have the
time to relax at all

Neil had dreams of going
to Oxford but he didn't get in

instead he went to Aberdeen university
but dropped out after a term

at twenty-one he was working on
a building site and living in a squat

I came to
London and

I contacted an
agency for squatters

and they were able to
give me the address of

somebody who was able
to help people who were

looking for accommodation
in the London area

You've kicked against
the stability that's...

I don't think I ever had any
stability to be quite honest

I can't think of any time
in my life when I ever did

I don't think I've been
kicking against anything

I think I've been kicking in
mid-air the whole of my life

At twenty-eight
he was homeless

wandering around the
West coast of Scotland

if the state didn't give us any money,
it would probably just mean crime

and I'm glad I don't have
to steal to keep myself alive

if the money runs out then for a
few days there's nowhere to go to

and that's all you can do, I simply have
to find the warmest shed I can find

How do people
regard you here?

Well I'm still known
as an eccentric

as I have been since about
the age of sixteen or so

I'm not claiming that I feel as
though I'm in some sort of Nirvana, but

I'm claiming that if I was living in a
bed-sit in suburbia I'd be so miserable

I'd feel like
cutting my throat

At thirty-five we found him
living on a council estate

in the most Northernly part
of Britain, the Shetland Islands

the nice thing about here is that you
can cut yourself off when you want

because there are people living around
but they're pretty quiet people

it's an environment which sustains
me, it's one in which I can survive

I still feel my real place
is in the world where

people are doing what
the majority of people do

and the reason I don't
feel safe is because

I think I'm getting more and
more used to this lifestyle

which eventually I
shall have to give up

and what would you like to
be doing say in seven years?

I can think of all kinds of things I'd
like to be doing the real question is

what am I likely
to be doing?

What are you
likely to be doing?

That's a horrible
question

I think most likely I'll be wandering
homeless around the streets of London

but with a bit of luck
that won't happen

some of the advantages that residents
of the Trowbridge area have

in comparison with those
in other parts of Hackney

first of all they are
geographically isolated

they're separated
from most of Hackney by...

At forty-two he's a Liberal Democrat
member of Hackney council

he was elected
two years ago

While I was in Shetland I felt strongly
that I should become involved in politics

simply because I felt I wasn't acheiving
things in the way I wanted to

and I could see decisions
being made politically

by people I felt were not
competant to make them

and who I felt were not
representing the majority of the public

and I felt angry and I thought in my
own small way I've got to get in there

and I think more
people should

I think it's only apathy which leads
to bad government at any level

It's like a million miles from the Shetland's
here, how do you cope with that?

That is one aspect of it, adjusting
to London after all that period away

even though I'd been back ocassionally
for visits it was extremely difficult

it became progressively easier, the
first six hours was an absolute nightmare

and then the first
week was pretty bad

I suppose it took me a
year or so to adjust

I suppose I
... yes well

I would like to be somebody in a position
of importance and I've always thought this

but I don't think I'm the right sort
of person to carry the responsibility

for whatever it is, I always
thought well I'd love to be...

possibly even love to be in
politics or something like this

the question of
long term? delegation

as you'll be aware
the Liberal Democrats...

Do you have any nerves when you give
speeches, arguments or defend positions?

Yes of course and if I
didn't it would be wrong

the councillor who has no
nerves is not doing his job

it becomes slightly easier
after the first time

I'm glad you didn't record my first
speech as most of the chamber walked out

and I determined like
Disraeli to say something like

"Well you are not listening now
but one day you will hear me"

but unfortunately most of the
chamber had already walked out

so it was hardly
worth saying that

and also I don't believe that
will neccessarily be the case

well I'm going to take people to the
country and sometimes the seaside

and I'll have a big
loudspeaker in the motor coach

and tell them whereabouts we
are and what we're going to do

and what the name of the
road is and all about that

- Do the days seem long for you?
- They can do

Do you have any
friends anywhere?

I have some good
friends still in England

Father god, we thank you for the love
that you showed to us all in creation

we pray that that love
may grow and take root

wherever Bruce and Penny
find themselves from now on

we pray that you will give them
both understanding and patience

I think it was after
the twenty-eight program

there was a dinner organised just
to say farewell to everybody really

I don't the idea was that we would get
together and become friends

but I think Neil turned up without
much notice, I can't really remember

- I came down from Scotland
- OK, right

and I don't think anywhere had
been arranged for him to stay

I think there was for all
those... I'm not sure exactly

and I said "oh well you can
always sleep on my spare bed"

I think the time between my
moving to London from Shetland

and finding my own accomodation
in London was about two months

and all that time
I stayed with Bruce

Was that
difficult?

Not at all, he
was a model host

although he did
always insist on

measuring the amount of
bathwater there was in the bath!

and I'm not quite sure why that
was, I never actually found out!

I hope you don't mind
me saying this but... like...

he'd find the fridge a bit
noisy so he'd turn it off!

I had occassions where
he'd walk round the block or...

- I didn't stay in and chat
- No, no, no that's true

No I accept that I wasn't
the model lodger in every way

however that only emphasises
how patient you actually were

How has Bruce
helped you?

Well he's just been
a good loyal friend

and I appreciate what he's
done to help me settle in London

and just be someone to talk
to when the need has arisen

when I grow up I want
to be an astronaut

but if I can't be an astronaut
I think I'll be a coach driver

this is probably linked up
with the fact I want to travel

my thoughts
haven't really changed

I definitely would like
to be a coach driver now

I've trained to be a teacher of
English as a foreign language

been on a number
of training courses

I've done that open university degree,
that was perhaps the longest of all

it was an open
university B.A.

I took a number
of subjects

this is all background
I suppose and really...

perhaps you'd like to know whether I've
done any work and the answer is no

- Another one?
- There you are

Oh there'll be plenty
in the next few weeks

All Neil's political
work is voluntary

like the canvassing he did
for the Liberal Democrats

at last years
Winchester by-election

he lives entirely
on state benefit

I haven't had any paid work apart from
a couple of short government schemes

I worked in a local community
theatre for about six months

I worked as a gardener,
fairly inevitabley

Does it worry you living off
benefits and the state?

Yeah of
course

I feel as though I'm a drain on people who
are working hard to provide the money

it's not that I don't think there
should be a benefit service

I think there should be work for all
or for as many as want to do it

and I'm not
satisfied with efforts that...

that have been made to provide
work for those who want it

when I get married I don't want
to have any children because

they are always doing naughty things
and making the whole house untidy

I don't know what the best
stage is for falling in love

maybe when you're in love in
your teens you really are in love

and when you think you're in
love later on you're not

or maybe I'm still not old
enough to really fall in love

I always told myself that I
would never have children

Why?

Because

children inherit something
from their parents

and even if my wife
were the most...

high spirited and ordinary
and normal of people

the child would still stand a very
fair chance of being not totally...

full of happiness because what he
or she will have inherited from me

well I'm not
married

I value all
experience

I feel that part of my
life hasn't happened

I'm not homosexual therefore I do hanker
after a stable relationship with a woman

I've never been able
to achieve that, and

I think I'm somehow
deficient in...

my ability to react to
the needs of others

through not having
had that relationship

I feel, especially sometimes
when I'm on my own

that I'm losing touch with
the way other people live

Do you worry
about your sanity?

Other people sometimes
worry about it

Like
who?

As I said I sometimes can start
behaving in an erratic fashion

sometimes I get very
frustrated, very angry

for no apparent reason, for a reason which
won't be apparent to people around me

Do you ever think
you're going mad?

Oh I don't think
it, I know it

well
'cause...

we're not allowed to use the
word mad but you know...

I think most people
are mad here, really

my health's been a lot better more
recently than other times in my life

maybe being busy has
been part of the cure

and I think my christian
faith has helped me

Can I just
say Neil

many thanks for the prayers, they
were really nice and thoughtful

I also beleive that as my friends
who have been so loyal have...

have got to know me better, there's always
room to get to know people better

that they themselves
have been able to...

show support and sympathy in
the most appropriate ways

- Is this a good time in your life?
- Yes probably, I've never been busier

and I've never been in
contact with so many people

please put all the leaflets right
through the letter boxes

I feel incredibly grateful for
the opportunity to do what I do

I'm grateful to the people who elected
me, I hope I haven't let them down

I hope I will be re-elected, that depends
on my performance in the last two years

In May he was re-elected
for another term

I don't think there's a councillor in the
country who doesn't want to be an MP

yet they say every MP wants
to be prime minister

but I'm quite happy at the
moment doing my council work

and trying to serve what I see as
a very great need in Hackney

well I suppose I've done many more
things than on previous programs

but whether I've changed
inside? well I can't say

What's the most enjoyable thing
in life for you at the moment?

I think it's looking
to the future

Well that's a change
for the better isn't it?

Well perhaps that's just
because I'm getting old

but I
think...

it's made me beleive that things
can't be as bad in the future

as they have
been in the past

I think there are certain short term
objectives I have here in Hackney

and if I can achieve a few of
those then I'll be pleased

Stop it
at once

One of the underlying ideas of the film
is that England is a class driven society

is that true
do you think?

People will say "oh no it
doesn't make a difference"

"he got it on his full merit"
probably some have

but there's a lot who fall by the
wayside who get pushed into these jobs

and other people who have
been fighting really hard

working overtime in
universities or wherever...

to try and get to
where those kids are

and they just got it like that
because daddy goes to the right club!

in the city
where I work

there are lots of very successful people
from all sorts of social classes

and if I was recruiting someone it's not
something I would take into account

so I think social class distinction
has become less important

I've met some really interesting
people through my work

that are of
a higher class

they describe things and you know
you'll never be a part of that circle

but do you
want to be?

I think the English classes police
themselves in subtle ways

if you're working class you're not
supposed to want to do anything else

and if you do try to
do something else then...

the other people around you will point
out you're getting out of line

In my day young people
had to know their place

but now they're
starting to burst forward

whereas
before...

"you will go that far and you will stop
there and you will not go any further"

If the money's there then maybe
that would give you the advantage

it might get you into a better school,
it might get you into someones law firm

if the money's there, but I don't
know that it's class as such anymore

Nowadays the only excuse for
class is ignorance, if that's an excuse

there is so much worldwide communication
and intra-national communication

that people should know enough about how
others live for this to not be the case

But I think it does still
exist to a certain extent

and I would love to see it change but
I'm not sure how it can really be done

I think wherever you are there
are a range of opportunities

and they are
obviously limited

more limited depending
on your background

I'm hoping education
is one way out

I don't think it's like
England exactly but there's...

I think there's definitely a class... maybe
I've got the wrong idea of what class is

but I think there's definitely an
upper class and a lower class here

Yes there is a
society of class

there is the advantaged
and the disadvantaged

but even from the
advantaged we have failures

Look at the royal family born into all
that money, wealth and priviledge

but look at them!
what a mess!

I wouldn't want to swap any
of that for some of theirs

money, wealth, position doesn't give you
happiness, health or anything like that

What effect has it had on
you? being in these films?

It's funny because before
the films start you think...

what on earth have I done with the
seven years that I can talk about?

and you panic and think I should've
done something, something dramatic

I was hoping I'd win the lottery last
night so I could come on and say that!

y'know, life's
not like that

We were talking about my
ambitions as a scientist

my ambition is to be more famous for
doing science than for being in this film

but unfortunately it's
not going to happen!

I've met some of the most interesting
people I know and am still in contact with

and this includes people in
different parts of the world

one or two particularly close friendships
have been forged through the program

although I was very suspicious when
the initial contacts were made

I don't think I'd have kept a record of
my life like we have with this program

so yes I enjoy
doing it but...

it's not something that
takes a great precedence

if you came and asked me if
you could do this to my children

I certainly wouldn't
be enthusiastic

I think it's
something that...

I wouldn't want to wish
on someone particularly

I think for the first forty
years it's restricted me

because I was always
shy to start with

and knowing that people were going
to be looking at me and watching me

and rather than do something that looks
stupid I've always pulled myself back

there's a lot of baggage that gets
stirred up every seven years for me

that I find very
hard to deal with

and I can put it away for seven
years then it comes round again

then the whole lot comes tumbling out
and I have to deal with it all over again

it hasn't changed
my choices in life

I haven't thought, well I have
to be doing this by then or...

how will this seem
to others? or so on

it's just a periodic
little intrusion

it's the only time
when you're a cabbie...

instead of you picking up a celebrity
and saying "oh you're Paul Gascoigne!"

and they say "oh I know you"
and they turn the tables on you

Do you
like that?

it's not a question of
liking it, I'm used to it

it has to be said that I bitterly regret
that the headmaster of the school

where I was when I was seven
pushed me forward for this series

because every seven years a
little pill of poison is injected into..

- Oh no!
- Well that's the truth!

being honest
I think...

despite all the things I might
have said over the years about...

"oh no this
program again!"

I think there's a certain amount
of excitement there too underlying

I'm old enough to
admit it now I suppose

no it probably is
a bit of good fun

some of us don't see family
from one year to the next

and I think that's how we all feel
about each other, that we're linked

and that
can never go

At the end of their very
special day in London

after their trip to
the zoo and the party

we took our children to
an adventure playground

where they could do
just what they liked

those from a children's home
set about building a house

there's
Nicholas

and
Tony

Andrew

and
Bruce

Suzi

Jackie and
her friends

give me a child
until he is seven

and I will give
you the man

this has been a glimpse
of Britain's future