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[ Suspenseful music plays ]

[ Camera shutters clicking ]
Good morning.

I'm Jeff Berman,
U.S. attorney

for the Southern District
of New York.

Today we announce criminal
charges against this man,

Lawrence Ray,

who, for nearly a decade,

exploited and abused
young women and men

emotionally, physically,
and sexually

for his own financial gain.

**

Kerik:
Who is Larry Ray?

Nobody really knows.

Ray has been charged
with nine counts,

including sex trafficking,
extortion,

forced labor,
and money laundering.

Kerik:
He was a master manipulator,
a master con man.

But every single relationship
he had was based on a fraud.

Melendez:
Larry, has filled this void
for the kids

of having a parental figure
that was there for them

and wanted to listen to them.

Reporter:
Investigators claim that Ray
groomed the roommates,

conducting therapy sessions.

He would talk about how to be
the best person that you can be

and some weird theory called
Quest for Potential.

He manipulated them
into making their worlds

smaller and smaller,

until they were totally
dependent upon him.

How could these
bright young students

have gone along with this?

Marcus:
Larry tells them they have
to work all day.

Figliuzzi:
They become profit centers.

He has them literally drain

the bank accounts
of their parents.

Reporter:
Ray initially befriended
his victims,

moving into their own campus
housing before encouraging them,

the summer
after their sophomore year,

to move in with him
to a Manhattan apartment.

He would begin to instruct them
to have sex with each other

and do various things that they
weren't comfortable with.

Larry has to force her
to continue being a prostitute.

Figliuzzi:
We're dealing with brain
control, mind control.

We're looking
at a con artist on steroids.

[ Thudding ]

Spit them out.

**

**

[ Birds chirping ]

I was looking for a story
I could work on.

A friend of mine had gone

to her five-year reunion
at Sarah Lawrence.

People at the reunion were
gossiping about these rumors

about what had happened
to some of these kids

who they'd gone to school with.

And somebody had found
this website.

It was pretty unsettling.

It had a lot
of different headers

that were called things like,

"I poisoned people
because my mother told me to,"

or "I am a liar and I am working
for the government,"

and there was a link
to this video.

Sunday, March 22nd

Please talk audibly Claudia.

It's Sunday, March 22nd

This girl was sort of
being interviewed.

Start from the most
current time backwards.

The most current time

And first, you making this
by your own free will?

Yes.

Anybody pay you?

No.

Anybody threaten you?

No.

Anybody coerce you?

No.

It begins with Claudia saying,

"I'm making this
of my own free will,"

which is, first of all,
like, "Hmm,

if you have to say that,
you're probably not."

Okay, so when did you
poison last?

And a man is off-camera,

asking her questions
in this deep voice,

an older man's voice.

So you're saying you
put mercury on where?

On the doorknobs
in the hospital?

Yeah

your food.

Other things I touched
or anybody touched?

Yeah.

It was clear that something
weird was going on.

My thinking about it
turned from,

"Oh, is Claudia this like,
you know, evil poisoner?",

which was how the website
presented her,

into, "Something wrong is being
done to her by this guy."

And, you know,
that's the first time

I kind of encountered Larry Ray.

I just started reaching
out to people

that were named on the website

to talk to them about what had
been going on with Claudia

and what had happened to her.

And I pitched it
to New York Magazine

on the initial striking thing,

which was that a man moved
into his daughter's dorm room.

**

**

Sarah Lawrence is a small
liberal arts college

in upstate New York,

where people are really
dedicated to learning

and are extremely intelligent.

It's a very hard school
to get into.

It seems to attract young people
who are interested in the arts,

interested in literature,
interested in theater, maybe.

I wanted to study literature,
so I went there.

It was a beautiful,
leafy, green campus

and it was not too far
from the city.

**

Talia Ray grew up in New Jersey.

She was a really driven student.

She had this group of friends

that she moved in with
sophomore year,

into campus housing.

And they were
freestanding houses

all kind of arranged in a row,

a pathway
from this little forest.

They were going to have fun,

hang out, make food together,
throw some parties.

Classic sophomore year
of college stuff.

**

Marcus:
Daniel Levin was
from New Jersey.

He was kind of a shy kid,

but he was excited
to make new friends.

He wanted to be a writer,
I believe.

Then there's Santos Rosario,

which was Talia's
former boyfriend

turned friend and roommate.

Marcus:
His parents owned a travel
agency in the Bronx,

small family business.

It was the American dream.

Claudia was from Los Angeles.

She was super creative.

She liked to tell stories.

You know, her friends
from high school

thought of her as gregarious
and, you know,

she'd also had a really
sheltered kind of childhood.

And then there's
Isabella Pollok.

Marcus:
She was from San Antonio,

very far away from home.

She was pretty shy,
also pretty sheltered.

She and Talia quickly,
really bonded

and became like
really close friends.

The group of students
who were Talia's housemates

were, you know,
18, 19 years old.

Most of them from good families,

good academic backgrounds.

What's important to remember --

the human brain
is not fully developed

until you're 25 years old,

so, that's a very
vulnerable period.

They definitely were trying
to figure out who they were

and where they belonged
in this world at college,

kind of leaning on each other
to try to figure out

what they were supposed
to be doing.

**

When Talia showed up
at Sarah Lawrence

and met this group,

her dad was a central part
of her conversations.

She would describe how he was

this amazing, smart person
that she idolized.

He is an extremely
important person

who had all these important
connections in New York.

She painted him as someone
who had been wrongly pursued

by law enforcement
because he had powerful enemies.

She described him
as some political martyr

who'd taken on corruption

and been punished
and was in jail.

When she was seven,

Larry and Talia's mother,
Teresa, got divorced

and the custody dispute
quickly turned extremely nasty.

Years later, Talia refuses
to live with her mom

and, at a certain point,

Larry and Talia essentially go
on the run.

They're tracked down
by U.S. Marshals

and, you know,
they burst through the door

and arrest Larry.

Larry Ray goes to jail
for the child custody dispute.

The way that Talia
describes her father

to her friends at Sarah Lawrence

is that he has been
wrongfully accused

of this child custody dispute
and shouldn't be in jail.

Hates her mother
for putting him there.

Talia is obsessed with Larry.

He is the perfect dad ever

and he has been
wrongfully convicted.

One day she basically says, "My
dad is getting out of prison,"

and he needed a place
to kind of land

after getting out of jail.
She was like,

"Yeah, my dad's going
to come visit

and maybe, you know,
spend the night and," yeah.

**

It's totally not unusual
for parents to drop by colleges

and even spend
the night sometimes.

And then he kind of stayed.

I think the initial reaction
was probably their gut reaction

and should've been one
that they listened to,

was like, "Why is this grown man
in our college dorm room?

This is weird."

Marcus:
But he sort of installed himself
in the common room

as like a father figure
for the dorm.

I thought he was very cool,
very smart,

very composed,
and very inspirational.

As Claudia:
He was very friendly

and he seemed, you know,

sort of very different
from anyone,

like very magnetic,
charismatic kind of personality.

He'd make dinner for everyone
or he'd order food,

these kind of lavish meals.

You know, you're a college
student. That's awesome.

So kids would kind of hang out
with him and listen to him talk

and he'd give these
almost sort of like lectures

at night in the common room.

So, I think that, while their
immediate reaction was like,

"Talia, why did you just bring
your father into our house?",

quickly transited into, "Talia,
I can't imagine your father

not being in this house."

Being in college is a uniquely
vulnerable point

in the life of a lot of people.

You're away from home
for the first time.

You're in a strange place,

not exactly sure
what you're doing.

It was --

It was really hard for me.

I-I was not really prepared
to live alone.

I had like never done laundry
before going to college.

I had a lot of separation
anxiety from my parents.

I just felt very sort of
anchorless and anxious

and didn't really have
a good handle on myself.

Larry sold himself as an expert
in self-improvement,

some sort of combination
of a life coach and therapist.

Somebody tells you,
"I got the answers,"

and can do it
in a confident way,

is in a position
to exert undue influence.

"I have exactly the answer

and I am the bridge
to mental health for you,"

and that can be powerful.

I'm having anxiety
and all these problems

and Santos was like,
"Why don't you talk to Larry?

He's great.
He's been helping me."

I ended up confiding
in him a lot

about issues that I have
with my family,

my depression that I struggled
with in high school.

Larry really listened
and really, really seemed

as though he actually
very much wanted to help me.

I shared a lot
of very personal things.

He spoke a lot
about inspirational things,

like honesty, principles,
science, and philosophy.

I considered him a very honest
and truthful person.

And, initially,
I felt it was important to me

to be a good person,
you know, be like him,

be honest and be truthful.

**

Marcus:
He would talk about how to be
the best person that you can be

and how everybody has
a potential

that they can achieve.

Some weird theory called
Quest for Potential.

As Felicia:
He framed it
as helping them optimize

and helping them get
over their insecurities

and become happier,
more effective people.

Larry promised young people

who were very confused
and felt alienated

that he was the person who was
going to pull them out of it.

He's helping them reveal
hidden truths about themselves

and changing the programing

that their evil parents
and evil society,

all these things that were
sort of done to them.

He is intentionally
changing their mind-set.

Larry said that he had
extensive military training

in the mind
and human behavior,

from different departments
of the government,

so, DOD, FBI, CIA,
DIA, Marine Corps.

Marcus:
The sort of climax of it

would be these stories
about his heroic past.

Larry claimed to the kids
that he helped negotiations

to end the war in Kosovo.

He claimed to be related
to Al Capone.

The list goes on.

He was very good
at mythmaking about himself.

I think, if you were
to sit Larry Ray down

and ask him the question,
"Larry, who are you?"...

...I think he'd con you
in his own answer

because I'm not sure Larry Ray
knows who he really is.

Larry Ray is someone
who can become

whoever you want him to be

and whoever he needs you
to think he is.

**

**

Larry Ray is Larry Grecco,
one thing.

That's the name
he was born under.

Melendez:
Larry grew up in Brooklyn.

I mean, if you hear him,

he's a quintessential
Brooklyn boy.

At a certain point,
his parents divorced

and Mom remarried
a man named Gordon Ray...

...and Larry took
his stepfather's last name.

He served in the military
for 19 days.

He was discharged
for reasons that are unclear.

He married his high school
sweetheart, Teresa.

Jacobs:
He's known a lot of people.

He's known
a lot of connected people.

He seems to sort of fit in
where he goes,

whether that be law enforcement
or, reportedly,

he had some Mafia connections
in Brooklyn.

Melendez:
He seemingly knew everybody.

Really good friends
with Bernie Kerik.

Bernie Kerik was

the New York City
police commissioner.

And he was somebody Giuliani
had brought up

from just being
an undercover cop

into being like, you know,

a high-ranking member
of the administration.

Kerik:
In 1995, I met Larry Ray.

We would work out together.

We'd have coffee, have lunch.

He was extremely charismatic.

He was very smart.

Very, very smart.

Marcus:
It's this sort of like

mutually beneficial
business relationship,

but it's also a real friendship.

Larry's the best man
at Bernie's wedding.

Kerik:
Looking back, it's kind of
strange, you know.

You get married, you have
all these wedding photos

and I've got a thousand
wedding photos

and not one
has my best man in it.

They've all been discarded.

And Larry Ray helped Kerik
broker an introduction

between Rudy Giuliani
and Mikhail Gorbachev.

[ Speaking foreign language ]

Larry was flying into JFK

and he comes out of the
international terminal

and he says, "Bern,
I want you to meet

President Gorbachev."

I said, "Okay, alright."

I told him the mayor.

I said, "Gorbachev is here.

He'd love to see you,
if you have a minute,"

and Giuliani said, "Absolutely.
Bring him down."

[ Flashbulbs exploding ]

For a politician
like Rudy Giuliani,

that kind of photo op

[ Flashbulb explodes ]
is worth more

than its weight in gold.

It was pretty slick.

[ Flashbulb explodes ]

**

**

Lalich:
You've got this guy who just
spent years in prison.

He lands in this dorm
with these young, vulnerable,

eager roommates of his daughter,
who adores him,

who basically set them up
to like him.

And so, for him, you can see
where his little wheels

are turning and thinking, "Oh."

Marcus:
Isabella was clearly
the closest to Talia

and the closest to Larry.

And Larry would often sleep
in Isabella's room.

Ray told residents of the
apartment that she needed help,

she needed supervision,
essentially, you know.

Instead of it being
something sexual,

he was really just there

to supervise her
through the night.

I was pretty freaked out,
at first.

I didn't really know what
to think.

I thought it was weird.

He got her like this coat
that she really loved,

that was like significantly more
elegant than her other clothing.

So, she seemed to like actually
open up more after meeting him.

He just said
that he was helping her

through some
psychological issues

or emotional issues
she was having.

**

Marcus:
And then, at the end
of that semester,

Isabella's parents
get a phone call from Larry.

He said, "If she comes home
for Christmas,

she's going to be
reliving trauma

and she's going
to kill herself."

He told them that, you know,

Isabella didn't feel safe
with them.

That was a complete shock.

Lalich:
He was breaking her
from her family.

The purpose is separating you
from friends and family,

any support system
you may have had.

And, obviously,
making the decision for her

that she wasn't going
to go home

and Isabella
isn't protesting that,

so, the family gets
completely flummoxed,

like, "What the hell's
going on here?"

Marcus:
But their hands
were kind of tied.

I mean, you can't take an adult

away from a situation
she wanted to be in.

And so it's the beginning

of breaking everyone off
from anyone else.

**

**

My name is Lee Chen.

I'm a businessman based
primarily here in Manhattan.

I first remember meeting
Larry Ray,

he was a person
with a commanding presence.

We had engaged in several
business dealings.

He seemed like
a very kind person.

I thought that he was caring

and he exhibited signs
that he had a lot of compassion.

[ Horns honking ]

There was a time
during Christmas break

Larry had brought back
to my apartment,

not only Talia,
but also Isabella Pollok.

Marcus:
Larry would take them out
to these like lavish dinners.

He'd often pay in cash.

He had all this cash
in his backpack.

Larry's in control
of everything --

what they eat, where they go,
what they do.

And there's a really odd
kind of dynamic

between Larry and Isabella
which seems really sexual,

even though it's supposedly all
about helping her.

What he was doing was
establishing full control.

He's away from the campus,

any like people saying, "What
the hell is going on there?"

And so he is reinforcing

that separation
from the outside world.

**

**

Often, I wasn't there

because I'd been traveling
for business.

When I came back from a trip,

he had moved himself
into my bedroom.

But it wasn't just him.

And it wasn't just him
and Talia.

I only had one bed
[ Chuckling ] in my bedroom.

It was him, Talia, and Isabella.

And they were sleeping
in my bed, all together!

Larry's stroking Isabella's hair
on the bed

and calling her his baby girl.

She's, what, 19, maybe 20?

This man's in his 50s.

You know, she's sleeping
in his bed every night,

so he can help her,
whatever that means.

It was methodically
choosing one person

who became totally
dependent on him...

...and then could sort of
systematically work

through the rest of the people.

[ Suspenseful music plays ]

**

**

Larry has filled this void
for the kids

of having a parental figure
that was there for them

and wanted to listen to them
and had time for them.

Daniel was coming to him
with some of his insecurities

and he had a pretty
normal question,

which was he was struggling
with his sexuality,

you know,
"Am I straight or gay?"

Larry, in a very definitive way,
said, "You're not gay.

You know, you're straight."

And, once Larry knew that,
Larry was able

to really use that
against Daniel

and use that
in Daniel's relationship

with his family and his father.

Daniel's dad wrote to him
in an email,

"It's like you're hypnotized
when I talk to you.

It's like, 'What's up
with you'", you know?

There was a real shift

in these people's
outward personalities.

Isabella's aunt and her mother
flew to New York

and they had dinner
with Isabella and Larry

and Larry just seemed very much

to be kind of in control
of the conversation

and Isabella seemed
to just kind of go along

with whatever he said.

So, you know,
they went back to San Antonio.

The history of this case
is replete

with people trying their best

to draw the attention
of authorities.

Some 50-year-old guy's living
in the dorm.

It's strange.

Marcus:
Some of the parents thought
it was pretty weird,

especially as the situation
progressed.

The parents said
that they made complaints

to the school administrators.

Parents writing to,
speaking with,

Sarah Lawrence officials.

At least one student
communicating

with the dean of students,
"We've got an issue here."

**

**

**

**

**

The next summer,
Larry had started to bring more

and more students into my home.

Marcus:
Dan, Claudia, and Santos were
kind of like the newer acolytes,

the ones who were kind of

more recently falling
under the sway of Larry

and seeking him out
for guidance

and so they sort of all end up
living there.

Larry, Isabella, and Talia
shared the bedroom

and, in the living room,
we got

two king-size,
blow-up mattresses,

which we would put
on the ground

and they would completely
cover the ground.

And then there were two --

there was a longer couch
and a shorter couch.

It's a one-bedroom apartment,

but there's multiple people
sleeping there.

There's not enough space
for everybody.

Many times,
when I'd come back from a trip,

whether it be business
or personal,

I'd find all these people
in my living room.

And Larry standing there,

like a general talking
to his assembled troops.

They're really now what I call
a self-sealed system.

You're closed
to the outside world.

You may be living
in the middle of Manhattan,

but you're
in an altered reality.

Figliuzzi:
Larry Ray took it upon himself
to study cults.

He wanted to hone
and refine his con skills

and turn them
into cult development skills.

**

**

He would start every morning
by playing the song

to wake them up
and it would be like,

"Okay, you know,
Larry's in charge."

[ Upbeat rock plays ]

He was the day in,
day out ringleader

of what this group was doing.

He would talk about how to be
the best person that you can be

and how everybody
has a potential

that they can achieve.

He'd tell you what to do.

He'll tell you
what was wrong with you.

[ Suspenseful music plays ]

The sort of climax of it

would be these nighttime
sort of sessions

where they would
sit around and talk.

It sounded like there was
very little sleep,

sitting around all hours
of the night,

analyzing themselves

and analyzing each other
at nauseam.

He was starting to test them

in ways that would
really push them.

The discussions would become
like focused on one person.

This long, drawn out period
of interrogation,

basically with them,
at first, denying,

and then, eventually,
after hours,

confessing to having done
something wrong.

As Santos:
He kept calling me a liar,

saying that what I was saying
wasn't true

and that I should give him

a list of things
that I did wrong.

And he would periodically
have me affirm

how I harmed him
throughout the day

or throughout the time
that I knew him.

He's brainwashing them
by forcing them to,

over and over again,
under pressure,

admit to doing things
that they hadn't done,

until they either believed it
or said that they believed it.

And then, instead of using
those stories

to help people feel better
about themselves,

he turned them around
and used them

to humiliate people
and to control them.

Lalich:
How could these bright
young students

have gone along with this?

It's the months
of indoctrination,

to the point where they have
internalized the beliefs

and the behaviors that Larry
has been imparting to them.

Pressure would ratchet up...

...where it wouldn't just be
about like,

"You know, how can we help
this person's mental health?"

It would be like,
"What did this person do

to disrupt the group?"

Personally, I felt like
everyone only spoke to me

because Larry,

you know, told them to.

He actually told me
they only spoke to me

because he told them to,
multiple times.

So, I felt very ostracized
and on thin ice.

He manipulated them
into making their worlds

smaller and smaller,

until they were totally
dependent upon him.

[ Melancholy tune plays ]
[ Birds chirping ]

**

**

**

Marcus:
Iban Goicoechea was a former
boyfriend of Talia's.

**

He spent a lot of time
in the apartment.

He was very much part
of the group.

Hines:
Iban was just very,
very easy to be around.

His smile was electric.

He had a gift
for breaking tension

and just making the mood light.

He saw Larry
as kind of a mentor

and a guiding light
who had looked after him.

He believed that Larry
was sort of this example

of this heroic Marine
that he wanted to emulate.

He enlisted in the Marines,
which Larry pushed him to do,

even though Larry was not
in the Marines,

and by the time of the students
living in the apartment,

he's come back
from serving in Afghanistan.

He'd been through some
really traumatizing things

in Afghanistan.

He'd seen some people close
to him die

and he was experiencing PTSD.

I felt that Larry had
placed himself in a position

where Iban saw him
as a factor in his treatment

and I think it's something
Larry took advantage of.

Sometimes I'd be hanging out
with Iban.

He'd just like
pick up the phone,

"Yes, yes," boom, hang up,

and then he's like,
"Got to go."

Like, "Oh, he's got to be ready
at all times."

He often played a role
of sort of like a gofer.

Larry would have him
drive him around.

As I was reporting the story,
I spoke with Iban.

When I talked to him,
it was in 2019.

He's helped me through a lot of

I mean

a lot of emotional battles
that I've had.

Directing me and guiding me
I should say

He was there for me to help me,
sort of

get my bearings again when
I came back to civilian society.

He kind of saw himself
as on a mission for Larry.

And it was his duty to,

if Larry ever needed anything,

in the same way as he would obey
a commander in the military,

he would do what Larry needed.

As time passed, Larry began

to also test them
with physical violence.

In the beginning,
sort of small things

that weren't necessarily scary,
like shoving.

And then as time went on,

these things became
actually violent.

Larry described how like Iban
had come to some sort of

very critical turning point
in his processing or therapy

and, in order to push him
towards the right decision,

Larry like took the edge
of a spatula

and pressed into his neck
and told him it was a knife

and told him he was going to die
and he should just let go

of whatever psychological thing
he was holding onto.

**

Larry was an obsessive
documentarian

of what his life
was comprised of

and what the victims were doing
and what they owed him.

Larry would hit them
or make them do things

while simultaneously
firing off questions

and forcing them to admit
things that they

didn't even know existed
until that second.

Daniel:
Months ago.

Ray: You're trying
to parse again.

[Indistinct] tongue.

I'm being honest.

Give me your tongue.
[ Laughs ]
[Bleep]

Stick it out.
Stick your tongue out.

Next it's gonna be the
head of your cock.

[Bleep]

You understand?
See this how it feels?

What if I picked you
up like that?
Picked you up by your tongue?

[ Moans ]

Huh?

You're a grown man,
I'm a grown man.

Uh-huh.

I don't like what you did.

[ Muffled ]
I know.

-You hear me?
-Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Now one more time and I'm gonna
split your tongue in half.

You doubting me Danny?

No.
[ Sniffles, clears throat ]

Larry Ray is the epitome
of a malignant narcissist.

He is vengeful,

he is mean,

he is motivated by power,

and he is dangerous.

These narcissists
are so full of themselves

and they want
to record everything

as proof of what they're able
to accomplish.

He was starting to advise them
on their sex lives

and begin to put pressure
on them

to be more open sexually.

And I think a lot of it,
for Larry,

was about using sex
as sort of a tool

to destabilize them,
make them uncomfortable.

It was a tactic.

It's a way to hook someone in,
you know?

How could you be more honored
than to have the revered person

wanting to have
a sexual relationship?

It's one of the deepest,

most intimate ways
to control someone.

Larry came out of the bedroom

and it was just us
in the living room

and like stood over me.

Started grabbing himself like
under his pants

and started talking
about like orgasms

and how he could make me orgasm
without touching.

He also suggested that Dan
and I have sex right there.

And, when he left, we did.

And Iban was like next
to us.

Larry really targeted
and humiliated Daniel

because of his issue
of sexual exploration.

And he told Daniel to go in the
other room and put on a dress.

It's one of the women's dresses.

And so, in front of everybody,

he's making fun of him
in this dress.

And then he asked Isabella
to bring out a sex toy

and then told Daniel to try

and put that into himself,
in front of the whole group.

And they all sort of
stood around,

making fun of him for this.

You can imagine the trauma
for Daniel

to have to go through
such an experience

of shame and humiliation.

Melendez:
He just got bolder and bolder.

As it snowballed,

it became this cult
he could completely control.

**

Lee Chen is growing
increasingly disturbed

by what's happening here

and it's not just the mental

and physical abuse
he's witnessing,

it's also what Larry's doing
in his apartment.

Larry had asked me to help him
reorganize the apartment

because it was a mess

and repaint the walls
of the foyer

and remodel the bathroom.

And it quickly devolves
into Larry wanting

to fix this
one-bedroom apartment

and it's up to these kids
to fix it for him.

I mean, Santos Rosario
was a 19-year-old kid.

He does not know how
to fix walls

or do manual labor
or home improvement.

Larry had completely changed
the appearance of my apartment.

He took down walls,
painted the foyer pink,

and left electrical wires
hanging in the breeze.

It was the most incredible
thing I'd ever seen.

Larry had never
paid me any rent.

I'd gotten completely fed up

and I told him,
"I don't want to hear it.

[ Laughing ]
You have to get out."

I sent him a ten-day notice
to leave.

That's when he changed
the locks on my apartment,

so I can no longer get
into my own home.

I took Larry
to New York County Civil Court.

It took me over three years
to gain an eviction judgment.

**

it would never get published

because your publisher
would say,

"It's too much.
It's too much.

That could never happen.

Never!

Nobody's going to believe this.

So go back and do it all
over again

because it's not going to work."

That's the only way to describe

the insanity of Larry Ray's
con ability, if you will.

I think the way that Larry
always wanted to be was

the way that he portrayed
himself to other people.

He really wanted
to be important.

Over the course of the '90s,

we can really see
Larry and Bernie

kind of riding high together.

It's mutually beneficial,

where Kerik gets
Larry's connections

to meet influential people
and kind of advance his rise.

Meanwhile, Larry is using
Kerik's influence

for meeting as many powerful
people as possible

and playing them off each other.

And then things
kind of went south.

Larry Ray does not discriminate

on getting access
to powerful players

and that includes
organized crime members.

**

Larry Ray served
as a confidential source

for the FBI,

talking about a $40 million
Wall Street scheme.

He's aware of a Wall Street
fraud connected

to the Gambino crime family.

But Larry is putting himself
out as an informant

to cover his own role
in the scheme.

Eventually, the FBI catches on
that, "Wait a minute.

Our informant is actually part
of this crime."

Twenty people arrested,
including stockbrokers

and alleged associates
of the Gambino crime family.

Kerik:
My cellphone rings.

Larry calls me,
tells me he's been arrested

and he wanted to see me
and wanted me to help him.

"No, you don't understand.

The FBI's got it wrong,"
and all this other stuff.

You know, "Can you call
the U.S. attorney?

Can you call a judge?"

I said, "I'm not doing any
of that.

You know, you're indicted.

I can't get involved."

**

He's sentenced
to five years of probation,

with the caveat that, you know,
if he commits more crimes

during this,
he'll be in prison.

Larry doesn't take that well.

In Larry Ray's mind,
Bernie Kerik owed him.

He made Bernie Kerik.

Larry decides, "I'm going
to take out my revenge,"

and that takes the form
of calling the media.

He starts talking
about ethics violations

that Bernie Kerik
might be involved in.

Reporter:
Ray was a one-time felon
turned FBI informant,

but he turned on Kerik,
telling authorities

how Kerik took $150,000
in free apartment renovations

from a mob-linked
construction firm.

Some of it was checks,
some was cash.

Reporter:
Kerik went to prison.

Kerik:
I blame all of it on Larry Ray.

He started the investigation

that eventually resulted
in me going to prison

and he was very proud of it.

**

**

By the time Larry gets
out of jail in 2010,

he's completely alone.

Any sort of connection
he used to have is gone.

He is no longer
of any importance in the city.

But it's fascinating
because the way

that Talia described him
to her friends

her freshman year of college
at Sarah Lawrence is

that he still has that power.

Larry pulls Bernie Kerik out

when he starts telling
the college students

really powerful people
are coming after him.

**

**

Jacobs:
Santos Rosario,
he had two sisters.

Yalitza attended Columbia
as an undergraduate.

Felicia's gone to Harvard

and she's now doing her medical
residency in Los Angeles.

She was well on her way
to a successful life

with a meaningful career.

Santos had expressed interest
in connecting Felicia with Larry

because he felt Larry
was helping him

identify his issues
and overcome them

and he wanted his sister Felicia
to get the same benefit.

And, you know,
she's introduced to Larry

and begins talking to him
at length on the phone.

**

Felicia was essentially

recruited and groomed
long-distance.

We were on the phone together.

Oh, I thought he was really
nice, charming, smart.

We ended up talking every day,
multiple times a day.

So, we were friendly.

We talked
about my siblings a lot

because he was spending
a lot of time with them.

Then it got to be romantic.

And Larry plays off of that
and gets her to

kind of do things that she's
not comfortable with.

At first, he asked about how
many people I slept with.

Then what kind of sex
did I like,

who did I like to sleep with?

That was at first.

He insisted that I was to go out
and have sex with strangers.

While she was still living
in Los Angeles,

working on her residency,

Felicia started fulfilling these
sexual requests for Larry.

She believed she was
in a relationship with him

and she didn't want to do any
of that, and pushed back.

But, ultimately,
he convinced her

that she would do these things,
if she loved him.

Larry also wanted to see me
having sex with someone else

and he wanted me to record it.

Larry wouldn't stop asking.

He was getting more angry

and so I decided I would comply
and appease him.

I didn't want to, though.

It's remarkable that someone
like Felicia...

...with her education
and her life experience...

...that she got sucked in
so completely and so quickly.

You have to ask yourself,
"How does that happen?"

Felicia was most likely

in a vulnerable place
at that point.

She's in her medical residency.

That's tough.

Perhaps learned enough
from Santos

of the things that would make
her more suggestible to his --

whatever he was saying
on the phone to her.

It really shows how good
he was at what he did,

which is what some of the people
in his previous lives

had said about him.

**

He talked about how he had

helped bring down
Bernard Kerik...

...and basically put him in jail
and that, now, Bernard Kerik

and others were after him
and were trying to hurt him.

He talked about how the people
who were trying to hurt him

would target everyone who he was
associated with or cared about.

I had become extremely paranoid.

I was terrified that people
were going to come and kill me.

I was just scared
out of my mind.

I couldn't sleep.

She goes from being somebody
who is like

on a really solid
upward trajectory...

...to somebody who has moved her
mattress into the living room

and installed cameras
around her apartment

that Larry encouraged her
to buy and set up

because she's afraid
that people are out to get her.

He really preys on this

to induce her
to leave her residency

and abandon her dreams
of being a doctor.

She just drops all of this
because she's afraid and in love

and thinks that Larry
can protect her.

And so she moves to New York...

...and moves into the apartment.

**

**

Ray:
Do you want
to hurt yourself?

What?

I don't.
I don't want to.

I don't want to.

-What?
-I don't want to hurt myself.

Unh-unh-unh unh-unh!

I don't know, why was it
so difficult to say that?

Is that accurate?

No, no, I do.

I still want to.

And have you been thinking
about hurting yourself?

Um --

These young people were
very much hostages,

in a very real sense.

Melendez:
Santos went through some awful

emotional, physical,
psychological abuse.

So, there's a video of Santos
slapping himself in the face...

...while his sister Felicia
is next to him on the couch...

...and she appears to be
really unwell

and is kind of freaking out.

Santos spends an hour slapping
himself in the face pretty hard.

Stop talking Felicia.

He was doing this
because Larry told him

it was the only way
to get his sister Felicia

to stop talking or to be quiet.

I think Larry was able
to justify in his brain

as someone was helping me.

Can I get up now?!

No Felicia, stop talking.

Larry would pit one of his
followers against another

and use them to shame each other
and police each other,

to just drill feelings
of guilt and shame

into the minds of his followers.

I wanna go change my clothes.

Like, I don't want to be
in here.

So excuse me.

ISABELLA: Do not leave it.

ISABELLA:
Do not leave the room Felicia.

ISABELLA: You're a danger
to yourself and others, clearly.

[ Crying ]
I'm not.

Felicia was favored early on,

which can make you feel
very special, like,

"Oh, this incredible man is
in a relationship with me."

[ Shouts ]

Ray:
[Indistinct]

And then he just
most brutally destroyed her.

Felicia, lay down.

[ Crying out ]

Watching Larry physically
overpower her

and physically restrain her.

And restrained her,
really, in every way --

physically and emotionally.

It was a long, drawn out,
tortured conditioning period.

Are you gonna behave?

**

I was terrified.

He said he would help me.

I felt it was too much for me.

The concept of being
that bad of a person

was just intolerable.

So I'm going back to bed.

Goodbye, guys.
Good night.

So then I went ahead

and I tried to end it.
Ray: Why are you doing that?

[ Slam ]

[ Water running ]

I was in the bathroom

and I saw a bottle of pills.

ISABELLA:
I hear a pill bottle opening.

ISABELLA: And closing.

[ Thudding ]

And then Larry had gotten up.

He realized I was out of bed.

And he came, slammed the door
open from the bathroom,

and then yanked me by the hair.

Spit them out.

Spit 'em.

And then said to Isabella,

"Don't let this fucking cunt
kill herself in my apartment."

**

Lalich:
At least three of the women
tried to commit suicide.

And that's not surprising,
given what they were enduring.

It's beyond comprehension,
what was being done to them.

And, of course,
it seems only natural

that they would reach a point

where they just couldn't
take it anymore.

Suicide becomes
an overriding theme,

where Larry tells them,

"All of you are prone
to suicide.

There's been so many suicide
attempts among you.

You are all uniquely at risk
and only I can save you."

**

**

Williams:
To an extent, pretty much all
of us had PTSD.

It's somewhere around 20 guys
since 2011

who committed suicide.

Both people who were
more close to me

and then people who were like
in my unit, as a whole.

One of the primary symptoms
in PTSD

and associated
with combat trauma is

paranoia and hyperawareness,
basically.

For Iban, it definitely
didn't seem like

that was the main driver.

It seemed like it was

the thoughts that Larry
had put it in his head

that always somebody was
out to get him.

When I spoke to Iban,

he sounded rational
and coherent

and, yet, he was talking
about something

that seemed very divorced
from reality.

[ Horns honking ]

EZRA: Did you ever see Larry
targeted by governmental forces?

While we were in New York,
were definitely followed.

I was a driver for him
for a while.

And she was being followed
on the streets.

Sometimes we would see them.

Other times we didn't see
anything.

But there were times where it
was obvious that he was
being followed.

He was like,
"Oh, you know, with Larry,

Bernard Kerik's still
out to get him."

It was this paranoid rambling
of people associated with Larry

who don't like him
or out to get Iban as well.

**

**

So, in spring of 2013,

a number of these students go
down to North Carolina,

where Larry's stepfather,
Gordon Ray, lives.

And Talia's also living there.

And Gordon has a property.

It's a large, semirural house

in Pinehurst, North Carolina,
which is a small town.

Santos and Dan stay in New York,
but the rest of them --

Claudia, Yalitza,
Felicia, Isabella --

are all down in Pinehurst
and they're doing hard labor.

Cult leaders typically
exploit their followers

in whatever way they can.

So, it's not surprising
that Larry would go that route

of getting free labor.

Marcus:
This property is a total mess.

Essentially,
they rip up all this sod.

They have
to put new sod down.

They have to dig
drainage ditches.

They have to use backhoes
and this machinery,

none of which they have
any idea how to use.

And Larry tells them
they have to like work all day

and they eat
when he tells them to eat

and they can't come inside
until this work is done.

Here we really see
the hierarchy,

even within the group,

where Talia is the most
favored among them.

So, while they're all
outside working,

she's inside, you know, working

on her application
to law school.

You know, she's not
out in the fields.

Ray:
They got to get it
down from the other side

and then get the water
to run inside it.

Would you believe
this overflowed

right onto the lawn?
Look at this.

**

You've been hurting me
for so long behind my back,

doing damaging things,
destroying property.

I don't want to.

-Don't want to what?
-[ Sniffle ]

I don't want to damage things.

Well, when was the last time
you damaged something?

Larry had a background
of extorting people

and financial fraud.

He created this whole scene
where he convinced them

that they broke
everything of his

and then you've come up
with these amounts,

you know,
like thousands of dollars,

that they supposedly owed him.

I was trying to --

You were trying
to damage it

and do -- and aren't you
doing that?

Yes.

We were talking
about how much damage I did

and I gave him
the estimate of $100,000.

And he said,
"It sounds about right."

And I said,
"It's probably more."

And he looks like,
"Yeah, it's probably more."

The group was firmly
under Larry Ray's thumb

and completely sold on the idea

that they owed him
this massive debt

that they really would never
be able to work off.

And these things they'd done
became a mechanism

for Larry to extract money
from their families.

They began to go
to their family and friends

and tell them that they had
done something wrong

and that they had
to pay him back

and could they help them out?

You know, at one point,
the Rosario parents,

they weren't especially wealthy.

They had managed to

save enough money
to buy a small house.

And they ended up giving

six-figure amounts to Larry.

There was one day when Santos
was on the phone with Talia

about how to get his parents

to give him money
to make repairs

and, occasionally, Talia would
hand the phone to Larry

and Larry would talk to Santos.

It was like a large amount
of money,

like $20,000, around $20,000.

Santos succeeded.

And I remember Larry talking
to him and saying, "Good job.

See, doesn't that feel better,
you know?

Making repairs
is the right thing to do,"

that kind of thing.

They become profit centers.

And Larry Ray
is exploiting that.

He has them drain the bank
accounts of their parents,

in some cases, the life savings,

because they convince
their parents,

"I have done this kind
of damage.

I owe this guy
this kind of money.

I'm in big trouble."

[ Horns honking ]

**

According to the evidence
that was presented,

Claudia was in a situation
where Larry was demanding

thousands and thousands
of dollars from her...

...and he managed
to convince her

that the only way
she could possibly

make the kind of money
that she needed to make was

to begin selling herself.

**

So, she began working
as a prostitute.

Larry convinced Claudia
that she owes him,

which, at this point is,
you know,

into the hundreds
of thousands of dollars

for damaged machinery
in Pinehurst.

She begins sleeping
with men for money.

And Larry is, you know,
intimately involved.

Pushing her to set up a website.

**

And giving Larry the money.

I wanted to repair what I
believed I had done to Larry.

And it was because I felt
immense pressure from Larry

to get money for him.

She starts living in hotels...

...seeing clients in hotels,

and any money,
except what's required

to pay rent and for food,
is all given to Larry.

Melendez:
She was just turned into this
like money vehicle

and was no longer a person.

She was just going hotel
to hotel, working constantly.

The pressure just to make money
was just constant...

...and extremely intense.

He would threaten
to blackmail my clients.

He would threaten me
physically.

He would threaten
to put me in prison.

**

**

Somebody had found this website
that was pretty unsettling

and there was a link
to this video.

Ray:
Speak audibly, Claudia.

I didn't care
about other people.

Okay, so, say again.

I wanted to poison you and I
didn't care about other people.

In that video, Claudia kind of
appears to be on autopilot.

Larry Ray would accuse
Claudia of things

that absolutely made no sense,

like poisoning
or conspiracies to kill.

And, first, are you making
this by your own free will?

Yes.

And, if she said anything other
than, "Yes, I did,"

Larry would say,
"But that's not the truth.

You have to tell the truth."

And these conversations
would be recorded.

So the truth really meant
generating blackmail material.

I poisoned you multiple times

with vials of poison.

At the same time, you were
trying to convince me

that you were a good person
and regretted ever doing this

and that you would
never do it again.

Yeah.

Why were you doing that?

So I could continue to have
access to you.

So, I think, by the time
she like admits

to all these poisonings,
she just wants to get out.

She just wants to put distance
between her and Larry

and get out of the situation
as fast as possible.

**

The money from Claudia's clients
gets transferred to Isabella

and she becomes a crucial part
of Larry's operation.

Everyone in a cult,
to some degree,

becomes a perpetrator.

In Isabella's case,
she really became

sort of the right-hand person
to Larry.

She was, in a sense,
the bookkeeper

for Claudia's prostitution.

There were clear accounting
ledgers kept

that tell us the kind of income

that Claudia was producing
for Larry.

And yet, the amount of money
that he says she owes him

never seems to go down.

[ Horns honking ]

**

You know, she ends up doing this
for four years...

...no holidays...

...seeing up to five
clients a day...

...and ends up giving him more
than $2 million.

**

Jacobs:
She didn't really have
anything for herself.

She lived in constant fear
of Larry punishing her

and it seems like
almost everything she did

during that time period was done
in order to keep him happy.

**

**

He was committed
to a psychiatric facility,

which, from his perspective,
all that does is reinforce

the "Everyone's out to get me"
narrative, right?

And I'm sure Larry leaned
into that.

You know, "I told you
they'd come for you."

Like I don't know,
"I've been telling you

this was going to happen to you.

Now it's happened
and you can't trust anyone."

He was kind of like
the New Jersey city kid

and I was the, you know,

they would call me
Mountain Goat. [ Laughs ]

And I was always like,
"No, you got to come out

and experience nature,
experience the woods."

And my wife and I
had been having conversations

with him on the phone.
We're like, "Hey,

why don't you come,
move out to Oregon for a bit,

see if you can, you know, do
something different out here?"

He seemed, you know,
pretty enthusiastic

about it and everything
and he got cleared

with his medical staff
to come out and do it.

We kind of noticed,

shortly after him getting here,
you know,

he just seemed like there was
no passion for anything

and there was just like
nothing that he wanted to do.

I was worried.

[ Suspenseful music plays ]

Lalich:
For everyone who's in a cult,
there are always doubts,

but, of course
you can't express them.

You can't say anything
to anybody,

so you put them on the shelf
in the back of your head

and, when that shelf breaks,

you realize,
"This is not healthy.

There's something
not right here,"

and then you may start
to think about leaving.

**

After a while, Daniel just
reached a breaking point

where he kind of broke through
and realized

like what Larry was sort of
presenting as this,

you know, enlightenment
was just -- none of it was real.

He was making it up
as he was going along.

"This guy doesn't know
what he's talking about,"

and, shortly after that,
he left.

For Santos, I think he had
a really hard time

reckoning with the idea
that Larry,

someone that was there for him,
someone that listened to him,

someone that like justified some
of his emotions

about his family
or his parents or his sisters,

was actually
a really bad person.

At a certain point,
Santos, essentially,

hits his limit
and stops talking to Larry.

He feels abused and he leaves.

He sort of gets
some low-wage jobs,

but he cut off contact.

**

**

During the eviction process,

it took over three years
to gain judgment.

Then to get the marshal
to take action,

it took another few years.

**

It was, finally, a big relief
to get Larry out of my home.

You know, by this point,
he's mostly living,

on a day-to-day basis,
with Isabella and Felicia.

They spend some time in hotels.

They stay in some Airbnbs.

Eventually, they land
at a house in New Jersey

owned by his friend
Scott Mueller.

**

**

There were very few spurts

that Talia was not
in contact every day,

but it was practically
every day,

sometimes multiple times a day,
especially with Isabella.

Talia clearly comes out
as a key player in the con.

She bought it to the point
that she sold it to other people

and continued to believe the lie

throughout the history
of this case.

**

**

Melendez:
This is already years into her
being a prostitute.

She ended up telling one
of her clients

in a moment of fear,
but also, I think,

trying to get out of the
situation that she was in.

Larry realized
that something had happened

and he responds by showing up
to one of her hotel rooms.

Larry and Isabella became aware

that Claudia had tipped off one
of her clients

to the fact that they named him
on a website

exposing his involvement
with Claudia,

who was a prostitute.

Melendez:
And he responds by showing up
to one of her hotel rooms.

Larry and Isabella came
to Claudia's hotel room...

...and Larry tortured her

over the course
of a horrific night of abuse.

He comes in and immediately
starts berating her

and hitting her

and yelling at her
for the simple task

of trying to tell somebody
what was happening to her.

He told me to strip naked.

I was physically bound
to a chair.

I could not leave.

The way that Claudia
described it,

Isabella was in the room.

I remember her saying that, when
Larry was pouring water over me

and lowering
my body temperature,

she at one point was like,
"Claudia, you're such a faker.

This water is room temperature.

It's not even cold."

Jacobs:
Larry repeatedly suffocated
Claudia with a plastic bag.

It was relentless

and it was painful
and it was terrifying.

He ended up smothering me,

choking me to the point
of passing out.

I was terrified.

I was trembling.

Lalich:
And it's just beyond cruelty.

Destroying this perfectly
normal student,

force her to become a sex worker

and then not only take
all the money,

but torture her in between.

At a certain point, they even
ordered burgers and fries

and, you know,
they were eating dinner

while she was tied naked
to a chair in front of them.

And then the torture
started all over again.

And, at the end of it,
he finally unbound her

from the chair, let her go.

She slept for a few hours.

Then she woke up
and went back to work.

And it wasn't very long
after that

Claudia showed signs of finally
becoming fed up

with what she was being
put through

and she confided in the same
client about what was going on

and he provided her the escape
that she desperately needed.

He got her a train ticket.

And she left the city.

She got away.

I mean, this is somebody
who was giving, in some cases,

over $100,000 a month directly
to fund Larry and Isabella.

They sent her a series of emails
and trying to guilt trip

and intimidate her
into returning,

but she didn't.

And that's the beginning
of the end of this story.

**

I just started reaching out
to people

and people that knew Claudia
really well,

her family and friends,
and they were like,

"None of us have talked to her
for six years."

I pretty soon was put in contact
with Daniel Levin.

He agreed to talk to me

and that was when it really
became clear like

this was like something
really bad and really abusive.

I felt like I had to get
the story out there

to try and get these people
some help.

So, James Walsh and I
published the article

at the end of April 2019.

Almost a decade from the time
that Larry first walked

into the dorm at Sarah Lawrence,

this piece comes out
in New York Magazine,

this unbelievably wild tale.

The story came out

and we were all in the newsroom

and all of us kind of started
freaking out

because it was
a very weird story.

And another repercussion of the
publication of the article

was that Isabella's mother
and aunt and Felicia's mother

went to New Jersey
and they knocked on the door

and they essentially tried
to rescue their daughters.

Larry apparently hid
in the back of the house

and the daughters refused
to come out.

You know, even then,
there was nothing

that they could really do.

These are still adults.

So that New York Magazine
article,

thankfully, made its way
to an FBI supervisor

in the New York FBI Field Office

and that supervisor said,

"I think we need
to look at this."

And they proceeded to knock it
out of the park,

determining how much
income Larry Ray had

that was from sex trafficking,

from depleting the bank accounts
of the kids' parents.

They acquired cellphone records.

Their emails show them
being controlled, confessing.

Now, all kinds
of things happening

and references to violence.

Then comes a search warrant

of the residence
in Piscataway, New Jersey.

[ Siren wailing ]
Early in the morning,

Larry is in bed

and a team of federal agents
and NYPD officers come

into the house,
place him under arrest,

and begin interrogating him

and going through everything
in the house

and seizing recordings

of thousands of phone calls,
videos,

several dozen hard drives,

several dozen cellphones,
laptops,

as well as handwritten ledgers
and handwritten journals

he'd seized from the students.

And it is an agent's dream
to have a search

where that much documentation
of illegality exists.

The same documentation used

to control and humiliate
these kids

was the same documentation used
in court

to absolutely nail Larry Ray.

[ Camera shutters clicking ]
Good morning.

I'm Jeff Berman,
U.S. attorney

for the Southern District
of New York.

Today we announce criminal
charges against this man,

Lawrence Ray,

who, for nearly a decade,

exploited and abused
young women and men

emotionally, physically,
and sexually

for his own financial gain.

[ Camera shutters clicking ]

The indictment contained

sex trafficking,
sex trafficking conspiracy,

racketeering conspiracy,

extortion, money laundering --
a vast set of charges.

[ Camera shutter
clicking continuously ]

I heard about Larry
being arrested

on just a like
a Google News alert.

Just popped up
and said he was arrested

and so I was worried
about what Iban might do.

Just because of his level
of devotion towards him,

that this looked like,
in Larry's world,

the culmination of,
"Everyone's trying to get me."

Now, they got him
and I had no idea, you know,

what he had put in his head,
what he should do.

**

I went to bed and, about 10:30,
11:00 at night,

[ Siren wailing ]
hear, you know,
a knock on the door.

And it was a Linn County
sheriff's deputy.

He initially asks if I know
someone named "Eye-ban,"

because he, obviously, doesn't
know how to pronounce his name.

And I was thinking,
"Oh, crap, what did he do?"

But then he is asking
about his tattoos

or if he has
any identifiable markers.

So, now, I'm like, "Okay, like
[ Laughing ] wha--

what's going on?"

And I guess the point is like,
"Oh, he was found dead."

**

To my knowledge,
Iban tried to slit his wrists

and was unsuccessful

and then got up
and walked into traffic

and laid down on a highway.

[ Melancholy tune plays ]

**

**

And it seemed like Iban created
like a rabbit hole for himself

that he couldn't get out of
with that paranoia.

At the end of the day,
I think that it's all on Larry.

I think that,
if it wasn't for him,

Iban, you know, he might still
have mental health struggles,

but not to that degree.

I absolutely blame Larry 100%
for Iban's death.

[ Suspenseful music plays ]

Felicia was talking
to the government,

but she still, essentially,
was on Larry's side.

And then, at a certain point,

she kind of came
to a realization

and began actually cooperating
and turned on Larry.

Santos, he was played videos
of what Larry had done to him

and then he just realized like,
"I'm being abused,"

and he began cooperating
as well.

So, Felicia, Santos, Yalitza,
Claudia, and Dan,

they all handed over documents

and spent innumerable hours
talking to the government.

Isabella was initially
described as a victim.

The government was hoping
that she would also flip.

Probably expecting
that she would

and she didn't.

**

Reporter:
Headlines for you.

This out of New York --

A dad accused of running
a sex cult

from his daughter's dorm room.
Remember this?

He's due in court
in the next half hour.

Reporter #2:
Ray's charged with nine counts,
including extortion,

money laundering,
and sex trafficking.

The prosecutor called Ray
a flight risk

and a danger to the community.

The government described Talia;

and Gordon Ray,
Larry's stepfather;

as coconspirators,
but neither have been charged.

Talia is the ultimate
true believer

because not only
has she continued

to stick by her father,

her father is a blood relative

and I think that
may have figured

into the prosecutive
decisions here.

The idea of charging a daughter
for believing her father's lies,

going back all the way
to childhood,

it could be too much for a jury,

just distracting
from the case at hand.

Larry appears to have
essentially insulated

his immediate family

from the most incriminating
parts of what he was doing.

But he had Isabella
recording information

about the money coming
from Claudia,

which makes her
a direct accessory.

**

**

Where there's a trial
and people have

to get up on the stand and talk

about what they experienced,

what they saw,
what happened to them,

I can't think of anything
that could be harder, really.

**

First of all, you have to sit
there in front of your abuser.

You probably haven't seen
that person in, perhaps, years.

To have that person
looking at you,

trying to shut you up
with their eyes.

They deserve awards

because they're helping
bring these people down.

Larry Ray's trial was
a jury trial,

so, you've got to convince
a group of citizens,

beyond a reasonable doubt,

that these cult members were
truly, against their will,

unable to consent
to what was done to them.

Larry recorded everything
and we got to watch it.

And it was really hard to watch

because Larry's physically
beating them.

The more I heard,
the more I realized

that Larry Ray was far more
of a demon

than anyone ever imagined.

I think the problem
for the defense was,

no matter how you spin this,

you're facing incredibly
damaging videos

of your client
physically harming people.

**

The witnesses were
remarkably composed,

considering what they
had gone through

and the nature of what they were
describing for the jury --

the torture,
the humiliation, the shame.

So, imagine this incredibly
vulnerable person

who was part of this and having
to talk about what happened,

what was done to you,
and to say that publicly.

That's hard.
That's tough.

Claudia really had
a pretty high burden

because she was
a sex trafficking victim,

so, it was not easy, I'm sure,

for her to sit there
and recount,

in laborious detail,

all of the things
that had happened to her.

All of a sudden,
as Claudia is describing

being a forced prostitute,

one of Larry's lawyers stands up
and asks for a break

and, usually, during testimony,
that doesn't really happen.

He seems to go
through some kind of seizure

in the courtroom, right there.

[ Siren wailing ]

And he has to be carried
out of the courthouse

on a stretcher.

And he's making like
eye contact with people,

like he's trying to like see
who's there,

how many people are around him

as he gets put
into the ambulance.

In the witness room,
you can audibly hear

Claudia crying
as we're all walking out,

trying to figure out
what's happening.

And I said, "I know him.

I know exactly what he's doing.

He's trying to influence
the jury.

He's trying to create
this self-pity thing."

I said,
"He's doing it on purpose."

**

**

As with anything related
to Larry,

you have to expect some kind
of curveball.

I mean, is he going to be able
to like, somehow,

at the last minute,
like prolong this

so that the victims
no longer want to testify

or they're unsettled,
and what happens?

You know,
it didn't end up working.

There were two seizures
and then there weren't any more.

[ Siren wailing ]

**

In all, the jury only
deliberated for four hours,

which, for a trial
that lasted a month

and for as many counts
as he was accused of,

kind of speaks
to where the jury was

before they even got
to the verdict room.

It didn't take the jury
very long

to come back
with a unanimous verdict

that Larry was guilty
on all counts.

Kerik:
He knew it was coming.

The court testimony
was overwhelming.

I knew he would be convicted.

Marcus:
There is justice
for the victims.

They wanted Larry
to get arrested

and indicted and convicted

and I think it was
really powerful for them.

They could now
resume their lives.

They see justice
has been served for him.

There's nothing harsh enough
that could happen to him,

based on what he did
to those kids.

There certainly have been
other evil cult leaders,

but the extent of what he did

and the amount of time
he was allowed to do it,

with such concentration
and precision...

...that was almost
beyond anything I've heard of.

I don't think there's
an ounce of regret.

He just destroyed
people's lives.

He loved feeling powerful.

And I almost call him
a power addict.

The way that you can judge
other people is

how they treat other humans.

Just a horrific individual.

There's this
inevitable question

of why nothing was done earlier.

The guilt that must be felt,

not only by Sarah Lawrence
administrators,

but the guilt of the victims'
parents must be painful.

I have no trouble
blaming Sarah Lawrence

for letting somebody move
into the dorm.

What was Sarah Lawrence to do?

They could've made sure he got
out of the dorm.

But I'm not sure,
had they gotten him

out of the dorm sooner,

anything would've
been different.

The really troublesome stuff
happens later,

at the apartment
on the Upper East Side.

Larry Ray was one of the most
skilled con artists

I've seen in 25 years.

There may not have been much
more that you could've done.

I think the biggest question
about this case is

why Larry Ray did what he did.

In terms of what drove him,

I don't know if it's as simple
as he wanted money and sex,

although I think
he certainly did.

He was like somebody who,
for decades,

was able to carve out a space
for himself

outside of the typical rules

where he could exploit
people's vulnerabilities.

And it was these exact
same tools

which eventually led
to his downfall

because he recorded
his own crimes.

Part of his defense was that he
really believed the conspiracy

and that these kids were bad
actors working for Bernie Kerik.

Whether he believed it or not,

it's hard to say
why he would ever,

and how he could,
torture these young people

so extensively,
in the ways that he did.

**

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