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1
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I was to realise, later on,
how masterfully, how carefully,
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how passionately, artfully,
details had been dealt with by Walerian.
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00:00:30,072 --> 00:00:36,952
Just after having my hair cut, I waited,
4
00:00:37,079 --> 00:00:40,749
you always wait on a film set,
5
00:00:41,917 --> 00:00:44,127
and all the crew was waiting too.
6
00:00:44,253 --> 00:00:47,723
I felt people were losing patience,
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even though their impatience didn't show,
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00:00:53,596 --> 00:00:55,426
and I asked,
9
00:00:55,556 --> 00:00:58,136
"What's the matter?
What are we waiting for?"
10
00:00:58,267 --> 00:01:02,937
And I was told
that Walerian was changing
11
00:01:03,064 --> 00:01:08,904
the colour of the food hatch.
12
00:01:09,028 --> 00:01:12,028
It was a wooden hatch and it had been
positioned just as he wanted,
13
00:01:12,156 --> 00:01:17,496
but the colour was wrong
and he was addressing that.
14
00:01:17,620 --> 00:01:19,330
"Really? Himself?"
15
00:01:19,455 --> 00:01:22,575
"Yes, himself.
He doesn't want anybody to interfere."
16
00:01:22,708 --> 00:01:24,038
"That's strange", I said.
17
00:01:24,168 --> 00:01:26,918
I watched him and, indeed,
18
00:01:27,046 --> 00:01:31,176
there he was, holding a brush
19
00:01:31,300 --> 00:01:36,350
and spreading some dust,
20
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some leaf-mould with that brush
21
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:45,020
which, obviously, was no paintbrush.
22
00:01:45,439 --> 00:01:47,939
So I asked what he was doing exactly
23
00:01:48,067 --> 00:01:50,027
and one of the dressers told me,
24
00:01:50,152 --> 00:01:51,742
"He took my clothes-brush
25
00:01:51,862 --> 00:01:54,782
"and he is painting that thing
with my clothes-brush!"
26
00:01:57,243 --> 00:02:00,663
I met a guy with a world of his own,
27
00:02:00,788 --> 00:02:02,868
a world he would make all by himself.
28
00:02:02,998 --> 00:02:04,578
For instance, the fly cages.
29
00:02:04,708 --> 00:02:06,588
He made them himself
30
00:02:06,710 --> 00:02:09,630
with little threads,
little cages, little things.
31
00:02:09,755 --> 00:02:13,625
The portrait of the king
looking right and left,
32
00:02:13,759 --> 00:02:15,889
and which in fact is a three-part photo,
33
00:02:16,011 --> 00:02:22,941
one part flat and the other two in profile...
34
00:02:23,435 --> 00:02:26,015
all that was Boro-made.
35
00:02:26,147 --> 00:02:30,527
I was fascinated by this DIY man.
He was a craftsman.
36
00:02:30,651 --> 00:02:32,151
Yes, Boro is a film craftsman.
37
00:02:41,871 --> 00:02:48,841
I realised it was a world
created out of nothing, a weird world,
38
00:02:48,961 --> 00:02:55,051
having nothing to do
with what I could know.
39
00:02:56,594 --> 00:02:59,014
It was fascinating
40
00:02:59,513 --> 00:03:02,223
because I had just been demobbed,
41
00:03:02,349 --> 00:03:07,349
I had just come back from Algeria...
42
00:03:09,356 --> 00:03:14,776
I had met the assistant in the army,
43
00:03:14,904 --> 00:03:18,454
I think he was an officer, like me,
44
00:03:18,574 --> 00:03:20,534
and this atmosphere...
45
00:03:22,870 --> 00:03:27,420
with military uniforms etc.,
46
00:03:27,541 --> 00:03:32,051
attracted my interest.
47
00:03:34,757 --> 00:03:38,967
Thévenet produces Borowczyk's film
and tells him,
48
00:03:39,094 --> 00:03:42,354
"You'll take my DP, Roger Duculot."
49
00:03:42,473 --> 00:03:46,523
"No way", Boro said.
"I work with Guy Durban."
50
00:03:46,644 --> 00:03:49,694
Durban had been working
with Borowczyk on all his films
51
00:03:49,813 --> 00:03:53,823
since his commercials,
since he had started working
52
00:03:53,943 --> 00:03:58,993
for Les Cinéastes Associés
at Joinville-Le-Pont.
53
00:03:59,114 --> 00:04:03,334
But Thévenet insisted on keeping me,
54
00:04:03,452 --> 00:04:07,332
and that's how I became
Guy Durban's assistant on Goto.
55
00:04:07,456 --> 00:04:09,496
And that's how I discovered
56
00:04:09,625 --> 00:04:14,915
an outrageously strange and weird guy,
57
00:04:15,047 --> 00:04:16,917
Walerian Borowczyk.
58
00:04:17,424 --> 00:04:21,304
He seemed to be busy, very busy.
59
00:04:21,428 --> 00:04:23,598
I entered his office.
60
00:04:23,722 --> 00:04:25,772
The assistant introduced me.
61
00:04:25,891 --> 00:04:29,561
Walerian looked at me,
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but not in an inquisitive way.
63
00:04:32,606 --> 00:04:34,226
He didn't look at my face.
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00:04:34,358 --> 00:04:37,398
He was unobtrusive,
65
00:04:37,528 --> 00:04:40,278
like he could rely on second sight.
66
00:04:40,406 --> 00:04:42,406
So I didn't feel uneasy.
67
00:04:43,659 --> 00:04:47,909
He looked at me
while taking care of other matters,
68
00:04:48,038 --> 00:04:50,748
in connection with the film.
69
00:04:50,874 --> 00:04:52,924
I stayed there for a while,
70
00:04:53,043 --> 00:04:55,423
and he kept on dealing with this and that.
71
00:04:55,546 --> 00:05:00,376
Then he talked to the assistant,
72
00:05:00,509 --> 00:05:03,139
who came to tell me, "You're in."
73
00:05:03,262 --> 00:05:06,432
And that was it.
That was how I was hired.
74
00:05:06,557 --> 00:05:12,307
I was nonplussed by the way
he had decided I was fit for the job.
75
00:05:23,866 --> 00:05:28,786
If you want an amusing anecdote,
as a first job,
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00:05:28,912 --> 00:05:32,502
I had taken photographs of brick walls,
as it was a red brick factory,
77
00:05:32,624 --> 00:05:36,424
with an old 13-18 camera
78
00:05:36,545 --> 00:05:41,375
and a tuppenny lens
I had bought at the flea market.
79
00:05:41,508 --> 00:05:44,008
With twelve foot high prints,
80
00:05:44,136 --> 00:05:47,346
we enlarged the sets,
81
00:05:47,473 --> 00:05:50,813
after adjusting the contrast so that
nobody would notice the difference
82
00:05:50,934 --> 00:05:54,024
between these enlarged B/W prints
and the true factory.
83
00:05:54,146 --> 00:05:55,726
This was my first assignment.
84
00:05:55,856 --> 00:05:58,276
I like this opportunity you have
in the film business
85
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,570
of doing things out of your speciality.
86
00:06:01,695 --> 00:06:04,445
This was to bring me a lot of trouble.
87
00:06:04,573 --> 00:06:07,033
I was called a Jack-of-all-trades,
a scrap merchant.
88
00:06:09,286 --> 00:06:10,616
Load!
89
00:06:16,627 --> 00:06:17,707
Shoot!
90
00:06:20,672 --> 00:06:24,392
It started around May '68.
91
00:06:24,510 --> 00:06:28,470
We started shooting
just before the "events".
92
00:06:29,390 --> 00:06:36,480
Work was discontinued
on that production.
93
00:06:37,272 --> 00:06:45,452
I remember a funny headline
in a newspaper:
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00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:52,080
"Director Walerian Borowczyk
locks himself up with crew and guns...
95
00:06:54,289 --> 00:06:56,039
"in a factory."
96
00:06:58,419 --> 00:07:02,549
The second time I met Walerian
was on the set.
97
00:07:02,673 --> 00:07:08,143
Shooting had more or less begun
when I showed up.
98
00:07:08,262 --> 00:07:11,102
I was immediately surrounded.
99
00:07:11,223 --> 00:07:14,143
"You need a haircut!"
100
00:07:14,268 --> 00:07:17,268
I had, indeed, long hair,
well, fairly long.
101
00:07:17,396 --> 00:07:19,686
"We're gonna cut your hair."
102
00:07:19,815 --> 00:07:22,065
I was playing onstage
103
00:07:22,192 --> 00:07:26,322
in Fran? Oise Sagan's Chateau en Suède
104
00:07:26,447 --> 00:07:30,697
at the Théatre DE l'Atelier, in Paris,
105
00:07:30,826 --> 00:07:34,906
with my normal, fairly long hair...
106
00:07:36,081 --> 00:07:39,211
"You can't stay like that.
107
00:07:39,334 --> 00:07:42,004
"We won't shear your hair off,
108
00:07:42,129 --> 00:07:44,549
"but it's got to be very short,
as you are a young soldier..."
109
00:07:44,673 --> 00:07:48,093
It was the assistant
who briefed me on all that.
110
00:07:48,218 --> 00:07:51,008
Borowczyk didn't really speak to me,
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00:07:51,138 --> 00:07:54,308
he was not the talkative kind.
112
00:07:55,726 --> 00:07:58,476
So I came on the set
and was taken care of.
113
00:07:58,604 --> 00:08:01,524
I tried my uniform.
114
00:08:01,648 --> 00:08:06,568
And I was awestruck
115
00:08:06,695 --> 00:08:10,695
when the hairdresser...
116
00:08:11,950 --> 00:08:15,000
he was a very famous film hairdresser.
117
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:20,170
I don't remember his name,
but it appears in the credits,
118
00:08:20,292 --> 00:08:25,922
He was a very meticulous man.
119
00:08:26,048 --> 00:08:30,638
He came and cut my hair.
120
00:08:30,761 --> 00:08:33,561
It felt like he was cutting
each and every single hair of my head.
121
00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:34,890
That was incredible.
122
00:08:35,015 --> 00:08:40,225
As a result of which I was almost shorn,
but not quite.
123
00:08:40,354 --> 00:08:42,694
It almost looked like...
124
00:08:42,814 --> 00:08:44,904
a "hair sculpture".
125
00:08:45,526 --> 00:08:48,896
And I could see Walerian passing by
now and then,
126
00:08:49,029 --> 00:08:51,949
and saying, "Keep on. That's just fine."
127
00:08:52,074 --> 00:08:54,084
The fouth of the mly...
128
00:08:54,201 --> 00:08:57,251
I mean... the mouth of the fly...
Silence!
129
00:08:59,164 --> 00:09:02,004
He had a bizarre,
very thick Polish accent.
130
00:09:02,125 --> 00:09:07,625
It was difficult to understand him,
we had to get used to him.
131
00:09:07,756 --> 00:09:11,756
We had to learn the Boro lingo.
Everybody would call him Boro.
132
00:09:11,885 --> 00:09:15,005
You had the Boro clapboard,
the Boro shoes, the Boro light...
133
00:09:18,475 --> 00:09:20,265
On Goto, Boro didn't want any shadow.
134
00:09:20,394 --> 00:09:23,984
At that time, he didn't want
the photography to have any influence
135
00:09:24,773 --> 00:09:28,943
on the meaning of a scene.
He wanted it as neutral as possible.
136
00:09:30,529 --> 00:09:35,529
Boro had a filming policy of his own.
137
00:09:35,659 --> 00:09:39,449
Frontal views, no perspective,
no vanishing point,
138
00:09:39,580 --> 00:09:45,210
no wide-angle lens, no distortion effect...
139
00:09:45,836 --> 00:09:48,836
Guy Durban had worked out
"the Goto lighting",
140
00:09:48,964 --> 00:09:53,804
which, in a way, was the ancestor
of the English light boxes,
141
00:09:53,927 --> 00:10:00,677
of the so called "English lighting",
i.e. diffused lighting.
142
00:10:00,809 --> 00:10:04,309
Ligia should be facing the light,
143
00:10:04,438 --> 00:10:08,648
no shadows, just some shading off here
144
00:10:09,151 --> 00:10:11,451
to make her face thinner.
145
00:10:16,325 --> 00:10:20,655
As far as my character was concerned,
I found it enigmatic.
146
00:10:22,247 --> 00:10:25,787
Something about it...
147
00:10:25,917 --> 00:10:31,047
was left undefined in the script.
148
00:10:31,173 --> 00:10:34,303
He had very little to say.
149
00:10:34,426 --> 00:10:37,796
Where are the words?
What am I going to do?
150
00:10:37,929 --> 00:10:42,349
Actually, I didn't understand.
151
00:10:48,065 --> 00:10:50,395
I completely agreed
with the topic of the film,
152
00:10:50,525 --> 00:10:55,275
and at the same time, it seemed
that in order to play this character...
153
00:10:57,032 --> 00:10:59,872
I didn't need to do anything special.
154
00:10:59,993 --> 00:11:02,663
I had to listen to Walerian.
155
00:11:02,788 --> 00:11:05,668
I had to be in tune
with what was around me,
156
00:11:05,791 --> 00:11:12,261
with those enigmatic, weird,
maybe sordid,
157
00:11:12,381 --> 00:11:14,631
but rather surprising elements.
158
00:11:14,758 --> 00:11:16,838
Yes, I had to go for all that.
159
00:11:27,688 --> 00:11:31,108
I had no idea what the result would be.
160
00:11:31,233 --> 00:11:35,073
I was there,
trying to follow Walerian's directions,
161
00:11:35,195 --> 00:11:39,565
minimal directions,
as he was no great talker.
162
00:11:41,451 --> 00:11:43,701
Long distance lenses.
163
00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:45,959
We wouldn't hear of 25mm.
164
00:11:46,081 --> 00:11:48,541
Same thing, I believe, for 35, 32.
165
00:11:48,667 --> 00:11:50,747
40, 50, 75.
166
00:11:50,877 --> 00:11:53,257
Long distance lenses to avoid distortions,
167
00:11:53,380 --> 00:11:57,760
and sets always filmed frontally
and from a certain distance.
168
00:11:57,884 --> 00:12:00,054
Always frontal views.
169
00:12:00,178 --> 00:12:02,848
Sometimes a travelling shot,
but never a pan shot.
170
00:12:02,973 --> 00:12:04,603
A pan shot? How horrible!
171
00:12:04,725 --> 00:12:08,265
Sometimes a side travelling shot,
most of the time, a stationary shot.
172
00:12:08,395 --> 00:12:13,015
"Actor enter. Actor speak lines.
Actor play scene and actor leave."
173
00:12:20,115 --> 00:12:24,365
In fact, Borowczyk directed his actors
as if they were animation characters.
174
00:12:26,037 --> 00:12:30,747
Life is not a miracle,
but a continuing victory o ver death.
175
00:12:31,418 --> 00:12:35,878
For him, they were living props!
176
00:12:36,006 --> 00:12:38,796
The only difference was that
they were not drawings, they were real.
177
00:12:38,925 --> 00:12:40,835
I don't remember much in fact,
178
00:12:41,511 --> 00:12:46,391
but that was a beautiful,
a very atmospheric image
179
00:12:46,516 --> 00:12:49,806
which is still present,
180
00:12:49,936 --> 00:12:54,186
the rapport with her
was enigmatic, weird...
181
00:12:57,569 --> 00:13:02,989
The objects, the light, the horse
were important.
182
00:13:04,326 --> 00:13:07,286
I don't think Walerian
said anything to me.
183
00:13:07,412 --> 00:13:10,082
He just indicated
where and when I should be,
184
00:13:10,207 --> 00:13:12,747
but never told me
how I should look at things.
185
00:13:12,876 --> 00:13:15,496
I don't remember him directing me,
186
00:13:15,629 --> 00:13:18,879
but I had the feeling I was being directed.
Strange feeling.
187
00:13:34,731 --> 00:13:39,031
I remember the first scene we shot
with Brasseur, it was extraordinary.
188
00:13:39,152 --> 00:13:42,242
Lots and lots of rehearsals.
Then action!
189
00:13:42,364 --> 00:13:47,084
So Brasseur shows up
and a very excited Boro says,
190
00:13:47,202 --> 00:13:50,622
"Actor arrive. Actor sit.
Actor take object.
191
00:13:50,747 --> 00:13:55,087
"Push object. Take fork.
No, put down fork. Take knife..."
192
00:13:55,210 --> 00:14:00,340
Brasseur stopped,
"What kind of circus is he performing?"
193
00:14:00,465 --> 00:14:03,675
And Boro said,
"What is stopping you?"
194
00:14:04,386 --> 00:14:06,176
We had to explain to Borowczyk
195
00:14:06,304 --> 00:14:09,394
that in France
actors usually were given more leeway.
196
00:14:09,516 --> 00:14:11,846
So he calmed down a bit,
197
00:14:11,977 --> 00:14:16,767
but he kept fidgeting at every single take,
making comments.
198
00:14:16,898 --> 00:14:18,188
It was really funny.
199
00:14:25,407 --> 00:14:29,327
Pierre Brasseur...
That was another story!
200
00:14:29,786 --> 00:14:31,076
It was extraordinary.
201
00:14:31,204 --> 00:14:33,504
When I stepped into the dressing room,
202
00:14:33,623 --> 00:14:37,503
I had the impression I was
in a completely different atmosphere.
203
00:14:37,627 --> 00:14:42,757
I was face to face
with this outstanding actor.
204
00:14:42,883 --> 00:14:45,643
He was a prodigiously gifted artist,
205
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:50,970
a figure, an incredible personality.
206
00:14:51,099 --> 00:14:55,439
He would welcome me,
saying, "Take a seat!"
207
00:14:55,562 --> 00:14:59,072
He kept cursing the shooting,
208
00:14:59,190 --> 00:15:00,610
furious with everybody.
209
00:15:00,734 --> 00:15:03,744
He really lived on the set,
210
00:15:03,862 --> 00:15:06,992
telling me stories
which made me laugh my head off.
211
00:15:08,450 --> 00:15:12,450
He was really an outstanding character.
212
00:15:20,253 --> 00:15:24,673
But, at the same time,
he was very nice, very considerate.
213
00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:28,349
Once he asked me
to be his partner in crime.
214
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:30,310
I said, "What do you mean?"
215
00:15:30,430 --> 00:15:32,890
"Look, it's very simple.
216
00:15:33,016 --> 00:15:35,096
"Here are bottles of ox blood,
217
00:15:35,226 --> 00:15:38,896
"because we have to make blood...
218
00:15:39,814 --> 00:15:41,654
"But...
219
00:15:44,110 --> 00:15:45,650
"I need red wine.
220
00:15:45,779 --> 00:15:49,909
"I have to drink my red wine.
They are really sick on this production!
221
00:15:50,033 --> 00:15:54,753
"So, among the bottles of ox blood
are some bottles of red wine.
222
00:15:54,871 --> 00:15:59,881
"Listen, you keep your mouth shut
223
00:16:00,001 --> 00:16:05,261
"and you see to it
that nobody knows about it.
224
00:16:05,382 --> 00:16:11,892
"I may ask you to get me a bottle
when nobody is around
225
00:16:12,013 --> 00:16:14,393
"so that I can have a glass of wine."
226
00:16:14,516 --> 00:16:16,636
That's how we became accomplices.
227
00:16:18,812 --> 00:16:22,482
Yes, I remember
that when Brasseur came,
228
00:16:22,607 --> 00:16:25,567
as he hadn't been there from day one,
229
00:16:25,694 --> 00:16:29,954
we had already done some shots
with the leading lady.
230
00:16:30,073 --> 00:16:31,993
And to Pierre Brasseur,
231
00:16:32,117 --> 00:16:38,077
we said that
she was a real pain in the neck.
232
00:16:41,501 --> 00:16:44,341
She had even
been nicknamed "Belphégor".
233
00:16:46,006 --> 00:16:49,756
And this didn't fall on deaf ears.
234
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:56,770
When Brasseur came
for his first shot with this lady,
235
00:16:56,891 --> 00:17:00,941
he said with his hectoring tone,
"So, Belphégor, how are you doing?"
236
00:17:04,441 --> 00:17:08,111
The rapport I had with Ligia Branice...
237
00:17:08,236 --> 00:17:11,026
There was a kind of tension,
238
00:17:12,741 --> 00:17:15,741
a will to say hardly any words,
239
00:17:15,869 --> 00:17:18,199
to stick to the subject.
240
00:17:18,329 --> 00:17:21,169
You had the impression
241
00:17:21,291 --> 00:17:25,501
speech was useless, unnecessary, vain.
242
00:17:25,628 --> 00:17:29,298
You had to act on course.
243
00:17:29,424 --> 00:17:33,604
Ligia was excessively reserved.
244
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:39,350
She wanted a make-up
Charlie Chaplin style,
245
00:17:39,476 --> 00:17:43,516
black and white, silent movies.
246
00:17:43,646 --> 00:17:48,436
She wanted her make-up
to be as white as possible.
247
00:17:48,568 --> 00:17:54,908
I remember once there was a polaroid
248
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featuring us both,
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00:17:58,203 --> 00:18:01,583
and I was pleased
when it was shown to me.
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00:18:01,706 --> 00:18:05,626
"Good!
I'll have a photograph of me with Ligia."
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00:18:09,339 --> 00:18:12,839
But when I hinted I wanted to keep it,
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00:18:12,967 --> 00:18:15,677
she grabbed it from my hand
and tore it up.
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00:18:15,804 --> 00:18:20,394
She didn't want people
to take pictures of her.
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00:18:20,517 --> 00:18:24,347
I was shocked,
but that was part of her character.
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00:18:24,479 --> 00:18:28,649
Something imperative and...
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00:18:32,654 --> 00:18:34,114
impenetrable.
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00:18:35,949 --> 00:18:37,579
Borowczyk fascinated us
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00:18:38,910 --> 00:18:42,370
with his personality,
with his incongruous, bizarre film.
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00:18:42,497 --> 00:18:45,667
He took us to another world.
We were not aware of it at the time,
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but when we saw the film,
we realised we had made a great film.
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You may return to your work.
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00:19:12,193 --> 00:19:16,493
Something
was quite enlightening for me:
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00:19:16,614 --> 00:19:21,124
a conversation
I had with Walerian about cars.
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00:19:21,244 --> 00:19:23,374
I loved beautiful cars,
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00:19:23,496 --> 00:19:30,836
and I believe I then had a Cabriolet 203.
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00:19:30,962 --> 00:19:36,222
I told him about cars.
I was fascinated by Porsches.
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00:19:36,342 --> 00:19:38,262
And he said to me,
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00:19:38,386 --> 00:19:41,096
"What are you talking about?
There's nothing uglier.
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00:19:41,222 --> 00:19:43,932
"Modern cars are ugly.
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00:19:44,058 --> 00:19:45,888
"You know what is beautiful?
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00:19:46,019 --> 00:19:51,519
"Wheels with mudguards,
for mudguards have a function.
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00:19:51,649 --> 00:19:54,489
"They stop the mud.
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00:19:54,611 --> 00:19:56,241
"That is beautiful.
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00:19:56,362 --> 00:19:58,742
"Wheels, mudguards, engine.
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00:19:59,449 --> 00:20:03,749
"One doesn't conceal the engine
to make the car beautiful or aerodynamic.
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00:20:03,870 --> 00:20:07,460
"One conceals the engine
to protect it from the rain.
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00:20:07,582 --> 00:20:10,632
"Nothing more.
And that is beautiful.
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00:20:10,752 --> 00:20:14,632
"Nothing can replace the car
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00:20:14,756 --> 00:20:19,176
"in its initial, original shape."
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00:20:20,511 --> 00:20:23,221
That taught me a lot about him.
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00:20:23,348 --> 00:20:29,348
I realise to what extent
he was after authenticity
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00:20:29,479 --> 00:20:34,399
in the set, in objects, in beings.
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00:20:34,525 --> 00:20:39,275
He preferred raw material
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00:20:40,406 --> 00:20:44,946
to pretty and harmonious things,
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00:20:45,995 --> 00:20:50,745
and yet there was a kind of harmony,
a kind of quest in his work.
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00:20:50,875 --> 00:20:55,505
The wear and tear of things,
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00:20:55,630 --> 00:21:01,050
their age, their faded colours
were essential for him.
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00:21:02,178 --> 00:21:04,968
There was the beauty he beheld.
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