Original subtitles

This programme contains very strong language and scenes

with violence from the start which some viewers may find distressing

NEWSREADER: A week of shootings have left many people in Liverpool

reeling with shock and feeling unsafe in their community.

Ashley Dale shot and killed in her own garden,

caught in the crossfire, not the intended victim.

I, Niall Barry, wish to say as follows.

I did not kill Ashley Dale.

It's in the road when the murders happened.

We absolutely need to track that vehicle.

That's going to be critical.

Merseyside Police say they won't rest

until those responsible for killing Olivia Pratt-Korbel are behind bars.

Shock and disbelief is quickly turning to anger

that such an awful event could happen to a nine-year-old child.

Somebody out there, they know who's responsible for this.

She said, "Well, I can tell you who's committed this murder."

Can you tell us who that person was?

Tommy Cashman.

Armed police! Yeah, I know. Contact. Contact.

Armed police, occupants in number BLEEP.

Yeah, Thomas Cashman! What?

Your name is Thomas Cashman? Yeah.

OK, listen... What? ..we're armed police.

I need you to come to the front door.

Bring nothing with you.

If you do that, you'll come to no harm.

My hands are gonna be on top of my head.

OK.

Is anybody else inside that property?

Yeah. Who?

Just a friend of mine. OK.

Show us your hands.

Good lad. Right, look at me.

Look at me.

Look at me! Not him! Me!

OK, BLEEP.

Walk towards me. Do it now.

Slowly walk towards me.

Look at me now.

Look at me. Keep walking.

OK. Keep walking. I am.

Go on! Come on! Show us your hands!

Show us your hands! ALL SHOUT

Keep your hands where I can see 'em, mate.

Who else in there? Just you two?

I've got nothing on me. Put your hands behind your head.

OK. There you go. BLEEP.

Stay where you are.

Do exactly what you're told. Do you understand what I'm saying to you?

What's going on, mate? Don't worry about it.

You'll be spoken to in a minute, just do exactly what you're told.

Stand up. What have I done? Go on.

Hands off my hips. I hate this system one little bit.

Are yous arresting me?

What for?!

What are you arresting me for?

One count of murder.

For what? Two counts of attempted murder.

Yeah, which is bullshit.

A load of bullshit.

A load of BLEEP shit.

Morning, everybody.

It's, uh, 9:40 in the morning.

Uh, really appreciate everybody coming in this morning.

Just a significant update in relation

to the murder investigation of young Olivia Pratt-Korbel.

We've made an arrest of Thomas Cashman.

He's been named by numerous members of the community

following appeals from the investigation team

and also from two witnesses.

We strongly believe Thomas Cashman to be the gunman

and we just need to prove it or rule him out.

I'm just looking right through your face there now.

Not even looking at you, lad, just looking through you.

Cashman, 33-year-old male.

He's been known to the police

and other law enforcement agencies since 2000.

He's got 18 previous convictions, mostly theft offences.

He has been to prison previously,

convicted of a drugs offence.

What are we waiting for?

I'm BLEEP good to go. I'm ready.

I've done nothing wrong at all.

I'm good to go.

So...

Keep walking.

The offence, please? The offence is murder. And the circumstances?

Enquiries conducted and community information provided to date

has identified this male, Thomas Cashman,

as being responsible for the murder of Olivia Pratt-Korbel

and the attempted murder of Cheryl Korbel and Joseph Nee.

It's a load of shit, nowt to do with me.

I haven't fucking done anything like that,

committed no offences like what you've just said.

I'm reading the circumstances... Yeah

and I'm just fucking telling you, having my fucking say-so,

that's a load of shit and it's nothing to do with me

and I haven't committed none of them offences.

It's alleged and rumoured in the community

that he's shot other people.

He's got previous convictions linking him to serious organised crime.

Some of the offences for which he's been arrested,

there's been no charges progressed

because witnesses and victims have withdrawn their support.

He appears to be somebody that commits crime

and gets away with it.

The focus today remains the interviews,

but also locate the firearms

that we know have been used during the shooting.

This interview is being conducted in an interview room

at St Anne Street police station.

You've been arrested on suspicion of murder of Olivia Pratt-Korbel,

the attempted murders of Cheryl Korbel and Joseph Nee.

Can you tell me what your involvement is?

Well, I've done a prepared statement here.

All I'd like to say is I've got no involvement at all

in any of these crimes that you put forward towards me.

Nothing whatsoever.

I live in the area, brought up in the area...

..whatever the reasons, I've been out in the area,

but I haven't committed no offence,

got no problem with any of the people you just mentioned,

um, for the rest of the tape, I'm going, "No Comment."

But I'm just stating clear

that I have got no involvement

in any of the crimes that yous are putting forward to me,

any whatsoever.

Nothing to do with me.

So for the rest of this tape, I'm going, "No Comment."

Can you try and help us by telling us where you were then?

No comment.

If you can give us an alibi and tell us where you were,

we can check it out

and this would be a relatively swift process then, wouldn't it?

No comment.

OK...

I would like to know where you were on Monday the 22nd of August.

No comment.

Why is it you were waiting for Joseph Nee around Kingsheath?

No comment.

Or, you weren't there?

No comment.

Are you in dispute with any family? No comment.

When you were arrested,

you said, "You stupid cunts, yous are stitching me up

"just because I've got a little track record."

Do you think we're trying to pin this on you... No comment.

..because you've been arrested for serious offences before?

No comment.

Let's get back to Monday, the 22nd of August.

Cheryl Korbel states that she was at home.

At around 10:00, she heard a bang...

TWO BANGS ECHO

..which she thought was a gunshot or a firework.

BANGING CONTINUES

She has walked down her path and looked left

and she's seen Joseph Nee outside.

She then sees Male Two, the gunman, running after him.

She then runs back into her house and sees Nee following her,

trying to get into the house.

Do you recall any of this, Thomas? No comment.

She's trying to hold the door closed

and she hears the shots and feels pain from her hand.

She realises she has been shot.

Cheryl stated that the gunman must have heard screams,

but he still continued to shoot.

She was trying to hold the door closed.

She hears Olivia shout, "Mum!"

and she uses her own body to shield her from harm.

Then she hears a shot.

She then realises that Olivia is unresponsive, gasping for breath.

Her lips are blue and she's taken off her top

and realised that she's been shot in the chest.

Is that what happened, Thomas? No comment.

Are you responsible for the murder of Olivia Pratt-Korbel?

No comment.

I'm now going to stop this interview

and the time is 15:55.

Any questions? No?

It's a reasonable line of inquiry to arrest him, interview him

and conduct some searches around some of the addresses

that were linked to him.

We're still missing the two guns

that had been used during the shooting.

We're really anxious that we haven't got them back.

And although we have a witness,

we cannot rely on her account

until we can rule her out as a suspect

who has assisted the gunman.

None of us can imagine the pain

the family must be going through right now.

What's the latest with the police investigation?

Police say a 34-year-old from Liverpool

was questioned on suspicion of Olivia's murder

and attempted murder.

Police say they're still trying to build up that evidential picture.

They need solid information

which will stand up in a court of law

so Olivia's killer can be brought to justice.

We've taken the decision,

following consultation with the Crown Prosecution

relating to our evidence,

that we will bail Thomas Cashman.

The evidence isn't there to support a charge at this moment in time.

A frustrating decision,

but based on the evidence that we've got,

um, it's the right thing to do.

It's hard, isn't it? Bailing somebody we believe to be the gunman

back into the community

and more difficult explaining it to Olivia's mum and dad,

which I will do later on this evening.

Right, OK, you're going to be leaving soon.

OK? You're going to be getting bailed.

OK, yeah, just this one here.

You are not to enter the Merseyside area,

uh, not to contact Joseph, Steven or Jamie Nee

by self service or agent or any other means

and not to have any unsupervised contact with children.

Do you understand that, yeah?

Any questions?

No.

There's always a risk of releasing people back into the community.

Fear is the obvious risk.

His presence in the community

will undermine confidence in witnesses coming forward.

That bothers us significantly.

We also know that if the Nees suspect that he's the gunman,

there may be some retribution coming back his way.

From the police point of view and community reassurance,

it's a real challenge for us.

The tragic death of 28-year-old Ashley Dale

has shaken communities in Liverpool.

Police say the attack was a targeted shooting,

but Ashley Dale, she was a wholly innocent victim.

We cannot have a society where people accept other people

bursting into people's houses, discharging firearms

and murdering young people.

I was quite young when I had her, just 16.

I was still at school, just about to do my GCSEs.

We grew up together. We were like sisters. We really were.

So this is me and Ashley on her graduation.

Proud moment. Proud Mum moment.

From being a young mum and then, you know,

being writ off by people saying, you know,

"Your kids will follow suit with you."

She went to uni and graduated

and very Proud Mum moment.

It really was.

Ashley always had me harassed for a baby brother or a sister

for a long time.

She got one. Nancy, who's 13 now,

and then that's little baby Connie.

She absolutely loved them.

What sort of a big sister was she?

She was great.

She really was. We could always rely on her.

We could.

She was always there if we needed her.

She'd always moan about it,

but, "I'm not here to be a baby sitter!" she'd say,

but no, she would.

Drop of a hat, she'd be there. She really would.

Yeah, she loved them

and they loved her.

They've asked questions in the beginning,

so we told them what happened because, you know,

you've got to tell them, it's all over the papers,

it's all over the news,

you've got to be as honest as you can be with them.

Um, yeah...

And it's affected them.

Of course it has, you know?

Yeah, they're not the same kids anymore

and I don't think they're ever going to be the same again.

I really don't.

It's very important that these people pay for what they've done.

It's not going to change anything.

It's not going to bring her back.

But at least I can rest assured,

you know, I can feel better that they...

They're paying for it,

that they're paying for this.

Good morning, everyone. Right, we'll get started

and I will start as I mean to go on with another thanks.

You're doing an absolutely exceptional job.

Every time we move forward with this,

it's not me, it's yourselves that are doing this.

Just that reminder, when we are getting a bit tired

and we're working long hours,

it's just that reminder

that a 28-year-old female was in her own home,

where she should have been safe

and has been shot dead

and we're doing it to find out who's responsible

and take them off the streets with those firearms.

Detectives believe Ashley's partner, Lee Harrison,

was the intended target

after falling out with local gang leader, Niall Barry.

We've got Niall Barry on his prepared statement,

saying, "I stayed all weekend with friends in a flat on Pilch Lane,"

and he wasn't prepared to disclose any more.

So we've recovered CCTV

that covers the flat on Pilch Lane by the shops.

The footage is being reviewed

to see if we can track Niall Barry's movements.

In the days leading up to Ashley's murder,

I've got Niall Barry going into the flat.

Skip forward, later on,

on the evening on the 19th,

there's a number of males that seem to come and go from that flat

and we can identify this taller male as Niall Barry.

So we've got Barry returning and remain there really

until the Sunday morning on the 21st.

That now all fits in with what Niall Barry's said

in his prepared statement in the interview.

Yeah. That's correct.

I've been reviewing the CCTV to see if I can see the car.

The Hyundai that we believe is connected to Ashley's murder

and I've found it.

Clearly the same make and model of the one that we're looking for.

We can see these two males exit that vehicle

and then walk down Pilch Lane.

One of these males, we believe is James Witham.

He is known to police.

Intelligence suggests that Witham works for Barry's OCG.

We have information about them working together

and selling drugs in other parts of the country.

It looks like county lines.

As you can see, obviously we've got Witham here,

making his way to the flat

and there is another male that we've picked up

as part of this footage.

He is seen going into that same premises

and we have been able to identify him as Joseph Peers.

We've got less information on Peers,

but he's coming and going with Witham

and he's using that Hyundai car.

We've got the footage from the night-time of the 20th.

This is around about 10:10 at night,

a couple of hours prior to the murder

and about an hour prior to the tyres being let down.

Not in the best quality, but it does actually show

two individuals leaving that flat

and they cross over the road

towards where we believe the Hyundai is parked.

The Hyundai's picked up a few minutes later,

driving in the direction of Ashley's house.

Another really key bit of footage,

on May 21st, so this is now post-murder,

and we see two males return to the flat on Pilch Lane.

Now we're aware that no other males have left during that time

because that footage has been reviewed.

So we're able to say that these two individuals

are likely to be the two individuals

who left earlier on in the evening,

James Witham and Joseph Peers.

The only people that could have left that flat,

because we've got them going back,

is Joseph Peers and James Witham.

Yes. And so the only two people at that time

that have got access to that Hyundai.

Absolutely, yeah.

So we need to find that car and arrest Witham and Peers,

because whoever was in that car was responsible for Ashley's murder.

Let's take you live to Liverpool,

where Merseyside Police are giving an update on their investigation

into the murder of Olivia Pratt-Korbel.

I'm going to hand you over

to Detective Chief Superintendent Mark Kameen,

who's our head of investigations.

Good afternoon and thank you once again for your time today.

Now, I recognise that people will wonder and question

why no-one's been charged.

I understand fully the thirst for information

around this terrible crime.

Please be patient with us.

The investigation is progressing.

We have now identified the types of weapons

that were used by the offender.

One of those guns is a Glock 9mm pistol.

I can now confirm that this weapon has been used

in a total of three separate incidents across Merseyside

in a two-and-a-half year period.

The detectives involved in bringing justice for Olivia and her family

are working tirelessly to find these guns

and I'm determined to take these weapons off our streets

before they maim or kill again.

Our kids have got to grow up into this place.

We want them to be safe and not fear for their lives

when they're walking to the shops

or even in their own home.

It's truly frightening and our city needs help.

Sarge, I've just had a text from this person in Dovecot

and she's basically said, Cashman's been seen on a push bike.

She's basically querying, why is he allowed in the area?

So I've been out to get some CCTV.

Detectives investigate a report

that Thomas Cashman has been seen on the Dovecot estate,

in breach of his bail conditions.

There he is. Push bike.

Would you say that's him?

Yeah.

He's still on the streets.

He's not trying to hide himself.

So then...

..why is he doing it?

Maybe he wants the community to see him.

He wants to continue to instil fear.

We've arrested him.

We've kicked him out of the area.

And he's saying like, "Well, I'm still here."

"I'm still doing what I want."

"Nothing's changed for me, so nothing's changed for you."

So... Yeah.

Why not go and arrest him for breaching bail conditions?

What we've got is, we've got him on footage on a bike,

cycling past the road

and that's all that we've got at the moment.

It'd be different if he was calling at addresses that are witnesses.

So it's a judgement call on which way you go with it.

Is it a difficult judgement call?

Yeah. Yeah, it is,

because your automatic reaction is the same

as what any member of the public would be, is...

"Well, let's go and get him back in."

"Let's lock him up and get him off the streets again."

But how's it going to affect the long-term goal of a conviction?

Do you think he feels a bit untouchable?

Oh, yeah. Definitely. Yeah.

He thinks he runs them streets,

sees himself as some sort of, like, Robin Hood character.

We've even had around times with Covid

and times when there was restrictions on,

he was going out in the community,

going to local shops, going to butchers.

He was buying food items for people that were struggling in the area.

It reminds you almost like of,

like, gangsters in the old days where,

you know, like Capone and all them type of ones,

where they'd stand at the end of trucks and throw food to people.

That's almost like what you get from him,

but all them people have got that other side to them

where if you get on the wrong side of them,

it's very different.

We've been busy.

We've reviewed the account of the female suspect

and she said Thomas Cashman went back to her home address

immediately after the murder.

Key update from yesterday.

She's no longer a suspect.

She's been subject of NFA.

We had the decision ratified by the CPS,

so she is now a witness.

We hope that she will step away

from the jeopardy of being a suspect

and she will be able to give us more detail

in relation to exactly what happened on the night in question.

..the suite where we're going to go into.

Right, if you want to take a seat there for us.

The witness is asked to give a full account

of Thomas Cashman's visit to her house

on the night of Olivia's murder.

OK. Where do you want me to start?

Wherever you feel comfortable to start, that's where we'll start.

So I was in my room.

I just remember being asleep and being tapped on the leg.

I could just see him with his hands in his hair.

He's like pulling his hair.

He's, like, pulling his hair, saying, "It's Tommy, it's Tommy."

"Wake up."

And then I could just hear him say, "Get me a pair of pants."

He didn't have nothing on.

He just had boxies and socks.

So I've just picked up any pair of pants.

I know they were a new style of, er, Under Armour.

And it's got the Under Armour badge on...

..I think it's the left leg.

I said, "I've gotta phone my fella."

And he's like, "No! No-one can know I'm here."

But I've still made the phone call and I've just said,

"Look, Tommy's here."

I couldn't really understand what he was saying.

He like, stutters, like, he was stuttering.

Something like, someone... Someone was coming for him.

He said, "I didn't know where else to go," or something.

He trusted me.

And then my fella's come up the pathway.

I just heard, "Joey Nee."

"Lad, Joey. I done Joey, lad, I done Joey."

I don't know. Something...

Something along them lines.

And that was Tommy saying it to your fella. Yeah.

And he was outside...? As he was outside

in the front garden, yeah.

The way he was talking, it was...

It was very stuttering. It was very nerve.

He was very nervous, you know what I mean?

I've never seen him like that.

I... I felt like there was something wrong.

I didn't want to question him

because he can get agitated and very angry,

so I didn't want that on me at that time,

especially the way he was.

I didn't want to ask the questions.

In a couple of minutes, the back door's closed.

Tommy's came up.

He went to put his hands up to me

and I just went like... Like, I touched him

and he's just squeezed my hands a bit as he's walked out.

Why do you think he'd come to your house?

He told me that he trusts me.

He didn't know who else to trust, is what he said to me.

So your history with him,

just tell us about that.

He started coming, right,

I'm not going to be precise with dates,

around...

..2019.

He was just coming into the house with me fella

and a few of the lads,

they were having a little joint one time.

So he was your father's mate initially then?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He started coming to the house.

It was just always every day sometimes.

It'd be morning time, about 10:00,

because we used to always watch BBC One.

We used to love all, like, the fraud, all that stuff.

And he'd always turn up early.

He'd be asking me if I was OK.

No-one in my life has ever asked me if I was OK.

No-one.

I've had to grow up, like, literally in a click of the fingers

and look after everyone else around me.

To me, it was like an angel came

and asking me or listening to me in what I had to say.

So he'd messaged me, "Do you feel what I feel?"

Or something like that.

And I was just like, "Why do your eyes undress me all the time?"

And he just came round.

And that was the first time that we slept together.

After that it was on-off for a couple of months,

but we weren't sleeping together every other time.

It was like, I just...

I got obsessed with him, like.

We knew nothing would come of it because we knew we couldn't.

I'm really hurt by him

because I honestly seen him as a good friend to me.

He's jeopardised everyone else's life

just to save his own back.

And it's all doing my head in

because I'm losing everything me now.

Just because of what he done that night,

it's really done me head in.

The reason why I'm doing what I'm doing

is because I do not want that woman to feel,

the little girl's mum,

I don't want her to not have them answers.

It could have been anyone that night.

It could have been anyone, anyone's house

and it's her little girl at the end of the day.

It just took real moral courage to come forwards.

This is a key breakthrough in the investigation.

However, we do know that she's fearful and frightened

and we will do everything we can to keep her safe.

A warrant is issued to arrest Thomas Cashman for a second time.

Open up the door. Police!

Police! Police! Police!

Get down! Give me your hands.

Give me your hands. Give me your hands!

OK. Right, he's detained.

Watch out! There's kids in here.

What's your name?

Thomas Cashman, you know what my name is.

Stand up.

Watch out! There's kids in here.

There's kids in here.

My kids are in here and yous are coming in like this.

You're under arrest

for the murder of nine-year-old Olivia Pratt-Korbel

on the 22nd of August. Something I haven't done, completely.

You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence

if you do not mention when questioned,

something you later rely on in court.

Oh, OK... Anything you do say may be given in evidence.

Do you have any reply to that?

No, I don't. It wasn't me.

Like I've said before, it wasn't me. You've got an innocent man...

"It wasn't me, like I said before. I've got an innocent man." Sound.

I'm a family guy, always have been.

Come on. I love you, lad.

Come in here and take a seat.

Oh, my God. Like...

Last time I was there, yeah, yous are arresting me.

What the fuck's any different from the last time yous arrested me?

Nothing.

I told yous last time... There will be something.

..it wasn't me. I'm telling you this time, it wasn't me.

OK, don't get yourself agitated.

Just stating facts.

I hate you, the pair of yous.

You, you're a prick.

And you're a fucking prick as well.

Both yous are fucking arseholes. Put that on the camera.

I don't need to, it's recording. Yeah, sound.

Make sure you go home and fucking play it to yourself

and realise you are a fucking arsehole.

OK.

All right. No worries.

And you ma'am. Thanks. Bye.

..off. Sick of that bullshit.

The offence, please? The offence of murder.

Olivia Pratt-Korbel.

The tapes are rolling.

I'm downstairs watching the, um, the interview. OK.

All right, Thomas, this interview is being digitally audio recorded.

You were arrested and cautioned.

And your reply to caution was, "It was not me."

One of the reasons why you've been locked up

is people have put your name in the inquiry

to say that you're responsible

for shooting Olivia Pratt-Korbel,

the attempted murders of Cheryl Korbel and Joseph Nee.

What I'm gonna go through now is a witness statement.

Now, she said this.

She says that around 10:38 at night,

30 minutes after shooting,

she was asleep in bed.

She woke up to someone tapping her leg at the bottom of her bed.

And you're standing there in your boxer shorts,

asking for clothes.

What is your relationship?

Thomas?

When was the last time you spoke to her?

Is she someone you can trust?

Is that why you went round there half an hour after the murder?

You said, "Get me a pair of pants."

"Then I gave him some pants."

"He was in his boxies and shorts. He was stuttering."

"He was saying someone was coming for him."

"He had a source and someone told him."

"He went to do something before they did something."

Did you attack Joseph Nee before he got you?

Is that what happened?

Is that what you're referring to there when you said...?

..when you were in her house half an hour after the murder

and she's heard the word Nee?

It sounds to me like you've...

..confessed...

..or certainly admitted to some sort of incident with Joseph Nee,

half an hour before.

Are you watching your back, Thomas?

Was the reason that you've gone after Joey is to protect yourself

because you were frightened?

She goes on to say that you'd said you'd dropped the stuff off

before coming to that house.

She thought you meant guns.

So the two guns that we talked about in the last interview,

had you already got rid of them?

We searched your home address...

..and we have seized a number of items.

So image of Exhibit BTJ...

So it's a pair of Under Armour trackie bottoms.

These are jogging bottoms.

I find it a coincidence that there's gunshot residue

on the jogging bottoms that I've just shown you.

There's traces of gunshot residue because it gets everywhere.

It's like a cloud of dust.

You can't get rid of it.

It's on them,

it's on the couch that you were sat on...

..and that's because you fired them four shots.

That's because you were the gunman.

That's because you were lying in wait for Joseph Nee.

That's because you chased Joseph Nee into the Kingsheath.

That's because you murdered Olivia Korbel.

The game's up, isn't it, Thomas?

This is it.

This is where it ends now.

This is where you stand up and say what your involvement is.

Or are you going to remain silent?

That's Olivia Pratt-Korbel.

A nine-year-old girl...

..who was in her bedroom.

A nine-year-old girl who was so scared

that she came running out to the landing

to see her mum,

who had opened the door to try and help somebody.

All she wanted to do was see her mummy.

She ran downstairs to see her.

Cheryl tried to shut the door

and you stuck your gun in and shot inside

to try and finish off Joseph Nee.

And you have hit Cheryl in the hand.

And that's gone through and killed Olivia.

Do you not like that?

Is that too much?

Do you not think Cheryl deserves to know who shot her daughter?

Who murdered her daughter?

Did you murder Olivia Korbel, Thomas Cashman?

I've got no more questions.

Anything to eat?

Thomas Cashman, I've come to charge you.

OK?

You're charging someone who's innocent.

I've done nothing wrong.

OK.

I'm gonna charge you with the following offences.

On the 22nd of August at Kingsheath Avenue, Liverpool, Merseyside,

you murdered Olivia Pratt-Korbel.

No, I didn't.

No, I didn't.

On the 22nd of August, 2022,

you attempted to murder Joseph Nee. No, I didn't.

Got that?

And on the 22nd of August at Kingsheath Avenue, Liverpool 14,

you attempted to murder Cheryl Korbel.

No, I didn't.

I didn't do none of them offences.

We will see you in court.

Yeah, we will.

To clear my name.

OK.

The Crown Prosecution Service has authorised Merseyside Police

to charge Thomas Cashman

with the murder of nine-year-old Olivia Pratt-Korbel

on the 22nd of August, 2022.

Our thoughts are with Olivia Pratt-Korbel's family at this time.

How do you feel about a witness coming forward?

Very grateful.

Yeah, it's huge, you know, a valuable witness.

You know, hopefully that ensures we get the conviction that we need.

That's... It takes a lot of bravery to do what she's done. Um...

..but at the end of the day, it's the right thing to do.

Liverpool do stick together. Yeah, they do.

One of their own gets... Yeah.

..gets hurt, they stick together

and... You're going to have a minority

that are going to protect these perpetrators.

You will have. You're going to get that.

But I think the majority, definitely, in Liverpool, are...

..they're good people.

They stand up for what's right.

Do you think that played a part here with the witness?

Yeah. Yeah, without a doubt.

It's her conscience that's got the better of her.

She's had to say something because...

..it'd have only...

..put her through more pain.

Guilt would've ate away at her, wouldn't it? Yeah.

The guilt would have ate her.

Cashman says he's innocent and he will fight this in court.

If he's any type of man,

he'd admit what he's done.

Which makes him not a man.

Merseyside Police hunting the killer of 28-year-old Ashley Dale

have released CCTV footage

of a car seen in the area before the murder.

Police want to trace a grey Hyundai car

spotted in Page Moss and Dovecot.

These are people who are thoughtless, mindless, callous

and are prepared to break into a house

indiscriminately shooting a firearm

and kill an innocent woman.

So we've got two suspects here on Operation Perth,

which is the Ashley Dale murder,

a James Witham and a Joseph Peers.

Detectives investigating the killing of Ashley Dale

have received information about the possible whereabouts

of the two men wanted for her murder.

A firearms team is sent to intercept the car

they are believed to be travelling in.

It might have just passed us in lane two.

It was a black Audi Q7.

RADIO: Yes, received, thank you.

There it is. There it is. That was it. Lane two then.

That was it. Lane two.

It just passed Tebay and it was going at some speed.

Lights on.

Gear shifts, going for the stop now.

Vehicle slowing. Hard shoulder. Stand by.

They've just pulled it.

ON RADIO: They've got two that I can see.

Just stick your hands where I can see them, pal.

Put you in some handcuffs. Yeah, one about that side.

All right, mate?

I'm gonna put you in cuffs, mate. All right?

Peers and Witham. Fantastic. Right...

James? All right. OK.

You're under arrest for suspicion of murder. All right?

You don't have to say anything

but it may harm your defence if you don't mention when questioned

something you later rely on in court.

Anything you do say may be given in evidence. All right?

Just meeting my mate, lad. Meeting in the lay-by?

The size of the footwear is important for us as well.

Footprints have been filed from the scene.

Size eight-and-a-half

left by the offender as they fled the scene.

Can you give us an indication of what size trainers they're wearing?

Size seven for the one I've got arrested, Peers.

What size foot are you, mate?

Eight. Eight?

Eight for Witham. Seven for Peers.

So these two work for Niall Barry.

And if they carried out the attack, it would be for him,

but we need something from them that links back to Niall Barry.

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