All language subtitles for Merseyside.Detectives.The.Murders.of.Ashley.and.Olivia.S01E03.ALL4.WEB-DL.AAC2.0.H.264-RAWR.en

This programme contains
very strong language and scenes

with violence from the start which
some viewers may find distressing

NEWSREADER: A week of shootings
have left many people in Liverpool

reeling with shock and feeling unsafe
in their community.

Ashley Dale shot and killed
in her own garden,

caught in the crossfire, not the
intended victim.

I, Niall Barry, wish to say as
follows.

I did not kill Ashley Dale.

It's in the road when the murders
happened.

We absolutely need to track that
vehicle.

That's going to be critical.

Merseyside Police say they won't rest

until those responsible for killing
Olivia Pratt-Korbel are behind bars.

Shock and disbelief is quickly
turning to anger

that such an awful event could
happen to a nine-year-old child.

Somebody out there, they know
who's responsible for this.

She said, "Well, I can tell you
who's committed this murder."

Can you tell us who that person was?

Tommy Cashman.

Armed police! Yeah, I know. Contact.
Contact.

Armed police, occupants in number
BLEEP.

Yeah, Thomas Cashman! What?

Your name is Thomas Cashman? Yeah.

OK, listen... What? ..we're armed
police.

I need you to come to the front door.

Bring nothing with you.

If you do that, you'll come to no
harm.

My hands are gonna be on top of my
head.

OK.

Is anybody else inside that property?

Yeah. Who?

Just a friend of mine. OK.

Show us your hands.

Good lad. Right, look at me.

Look at me.

Look at me! Not him! Me!

OK, BLEEP.

Walk towards me. Do it now.

Slowly walk towards me.

Look at me now.

Look at me. Keep walking.

OK. Keep walking. I am.

Go on! Come on! Show us your hands!

Show us your hands!
ALL SHOUT

Keep your hands where I can
see 'em, mate.

Who else in there? Just you two?

I've got nothing on me. Put your
hands behind your head.

OK. There you go. BLEEP.

Stay where you are.

Do exactly what you're told. Do you
understand what I'm saying to you?

What's going on, mate? Don't worry
about it.

You'll be spoken to in a minute,
just do exactly what you're told.

Stand up. What have I done? Go on.

Hands off my hips. I hate this
system one little bit.

Are yous arresting me?

What for?!

What are you arresting me for?

One count of murder.

For what? Two counts of attempted
murder.

Yeah, which is bullshit.

A load of bullshit.

A load of BLEEP shit.

Morning, everybody.

It's, uh, 9:40 in the morning.

Uh, really appreciate everybody
coming in this morning.

Just a significant update in relation

to the murder investigation of young
Olivia Pratt-Korbel.

We've made an arrest of Thomas
Cashman.

He's been named by numerous members
of the community

following appeals from the
investigation team

and also from two witnesses.

We strongly believe Thomas Cashman
to be the gunman

and we just need to prove it or rule
him out.

I'm just looking right through your
face there now.

Not even looking at you, lad, just
looking through you.

Cashman, 33-year-old male.

He's been known to the police

and other law enforcement agencies
since 2000.

He's got 18 previous convictions,
mostly theft offences.

He has been to prison previously,

convicted of a drugs offence.

What are we waiting for?

I'm BLEEP good to go. I'm ready.

I've done nothing wrong at all.

I'm good to go.

So...

Keep walking.

The offence, please? The offence is
murder. And the circumstances?

Enquiries conducted and community
information provided to date

has identified this male, Thomas
Cashman,

as being responsible for the murder
of Olivia Pratt-Korbel

and the attempted murder of Cheryl
Korbel and Joseph Nee.

It's a load of shit, nowt to do with
me.

I haven't fucking done anything
like that,

committed no offences like what
you've just said.

I'm reading the circumstances...
Yeah

and I'm just fucking telling you,
having my fucking say-so,

that's a load of shit and it's
nothing to do with me

and I haven't committed none of
them offences.

It's alleged and rumoured in the
community

that he's shot other people.

He's got previous convictions linking
him to serious organised crime.

Some of the offences for which he's
been arrested,

there's been no charges progressed

because witnesses and victims have
withdrawn their support.

He appears to be somebody that
commits crime

and gets away with it.

The focus today remains the
interviews,

but also locate the firearms

that we know have been used during
the shooting.

This interview is being conducted in
an interview room

at St Anne Street police station.

You've been arrested on suspicion
of murder of Olivia Pratt-Korbel,

the attempted murders of Cheryl
Korbel and Joseph Nee.

Can you tell me what your
involvement is?

Well, I've done a prepared
statement here.

All I'd like to say is I've got no
involvement at all

in any of these crimes that you put
forward towards me.

Nothing whatsoever.

I live in the area, brought
up in the area...

..whatever the reasons, I've been
out in the area,

but I haven't committed no offence,

got no problem with any of the
people you just mentioned,

um, for the rest of the tape, I'm
going, "No Comment."

But I'm just stating clear

that I have got no involvement

in any of the crimes that yous are
putting forward to me,

any whatsoever.

Nothing to do with me.

So for the rest of this tape, I'm
going, "No Comment."

Can you try and help us by telling
us where you were then?

No comment.

If you can give us an alibi and tell
us where you were,

we can check it out

and this would be a relatively swift
process then, wouldn't it?

No comment.

OK...

I would like to know where you were
on Monday the 22nd of August.

No comment.

Why is it you were waiting for
Joseph Nee around Kingsheath?

No comment.

Or, you weren't there?

No comment.

Are you in dispute with any family?
No comment.

When you were arrested,

you said, "You stupid cunts, yous are
stitching me up

"just because I've got a little
track record."

Do you think we're trying to pin
this on you... No comment.

..because you've been arrested for
serious offences before?

No comment.

Let's get back to Monday, the 22nd
of August.

Cheryl Korbel states that she was
at home.

At around 10:00, she heard a bang...

TWO BANGS ECHO

..which she thought was a gunshot
or a firework.

BANGING CONTINUES

She has walked down her path and
looked left

and she's seen Joseph Nee outside.

She then sees Male Two, the gunman,
running after him.

She then runs back into her house
and sees Nee following her,

trying to get into the house.

Do you recall any of this, Thomas?
No comment.

She's trying to hold the door closed

and she hears the shots and feels
pain from her hand.

She realises she has been shot.

Cheryl stated that the gunman
must have heard screams,

but he still continued to shoot.

She was trying to hold the door
closed.

She hears Olivia shout, "Mum!"

and she uses her own body to shield
her from harm.

Then she hears a shot.

She then realises that Olivia is
unresponsive, gasping for breath.

Her lips are blue and she's taken
off her top

and realised that she's been shot in
the chest.

Is that what happened, Thomas? No
comment.

Are you responsible for the murder
of Olivia Pratt-Korbel?

No comment.

I'm now going to stop this interview

and the time is 15:55.

Any questions? No?

It's a reasonable line of inquiry to
arrest him, interview him

and conduct some searches around
some of the addresses

that were linked to him.

We're still missing the two guns

that had been used during the
shooting.

We're really anxious that we haven't
got them back.

And although we have a witness,

we cannot rely on her account

until we can rule her out as a
suspect

who has assisted the gunman.

None of us can imagine the pain

the family must be going through
right now.

What's the latest with the police
investigation?

Police say a 34-year-old from
Liverpool

was questioned on suspicion of
Olivia's murder

and attempted murder.

Police say they're still trying to
build up that evidential picture.

They need solid information

which will stand up in a court of law

so Olivia's killer can be brought to
justice.

We've taken the decision,

following consultation with the
Crown Prosecution

relating to our evidence,

that we will bail Thomas Cashman.

The evidence isn't there to support
a charge at this moment in time.

A frustrating decision,

but based on the evidence that we've
got,

um, it's the right thing to do.

It's hard, isn't it? Bailing
somebody we believe to be the gunman

back into the community

and more difficult explaining it to
Olivia's mum and dad,

which I will do later on this
evening.

Right, OK, you're going to be
leaving soon.

OK? You're going to be getting
bailed.

OK, yeah, just this one here.

You are not to enter the Merseyside
area,

uh, not to contact Joseph, Steven or
Jamie Nee

by self service or agent or any
other means

and not to have any unsupervised
contact with children.

Do you understand that, yeah?

Any questions?

No.

There's always a risk of releasing
people back into the community.

Fear is the obvious risk.

His presence in the community

will undermine confidence in
witnesses coming forward.

That bothers us significantly.

We also know that if the Nees
suspect that he's the gunman,

there may be some retribution coming
back his way.

From the police point of view and
community reassurance,

it's a real challenge for us.

The tragic death of 28-year-old
Ashley Dale

has shaken communities in Liverpool.

Police say the attack was a targeted
shooting,

but Ashley Dale, she was a wholly
innocent victim.

We cannot have a society where
people accept other people

bursting into people's houses,
discharging firearms

and murdering young people.

I was quite young when I had her,
just 16.

I was still at school, just about
to do my GCSEs.

We grew up together. We were like
sisters. We really were.

So this is me and Ashley on her
graduation.

Proud moment. Proud Mum moment.

From being a young mum and then,
you know,

being writ off by people saying,
you know,

"Your kids will follow suit with
you."

She went to uni and graduated

and very Proud Mum moment.

It really was.

Ashley always had me harassed
for a baby brother or a sister

for a long time.

She got one. Nancy, who's 13 now,

and then that's little baby Connie.

She absolutely loved them.

What sort of a big sister was she?

She was great.

She really was. We could always
rely on her.

We could.

She was always there if we needed
her.

She'd always moan about it,

but, "I'm not here to be a baby
sitter!" she'd say,

but no, she would.

Drop of a hat, she'd be there. She
really would.

Yeah, she loved them

and they loved her.

They've asked questions in the
beginning,

so we told them what happened
because, you know,

you've got to tell them, it's all
over the papers,

it's all over the news,

you've got to be as honest as you
can be with them.

Um, yeah...

And it's affected them.

Of course it has, you know?

Yeah, they're not the same kids
anymore

and I don't think they're ever
going to be the same again.

I really don't.

It's very important that these
people pay for what they've done.

It's not going to change anything.

It's not going to bring her back.

But at least I can rest assured,

you know, I can feel better that
they...

They're paying for it,

that they're paying for this.

Good morning, everyone. Right, we'll
get started

and I will start as I mean to go on
with another thanks.

You're doing an absolutely
exceptional job.

Every time we move forward with this,

it's not me, it's yourselves that
are doing this.

Just that reminder, when we are
getting a bit tired

and we're working long hours,

it's just that reminder

that a 28-year-old female was in her
own home,

where she should have been safe

and has been shot dead

and we're doing it to find out who's
responsible

and take them off the streets with
those firearms.

Detectives believe Ashley's partner,
Lee Harrison,

was the intended target

after falling out with local gang
leader, Niall Barry.

We've got Niall Barry on his prepared
statement,

saying, "I stayed all weekend with
friends in a flat on Pilch Lane,"

and he wasn't prepared to disclose
any more.

So we've recovered CCTV

that covers the flat on Pilch Lane
by the shops.

The footage is being reviewed

to see if we can track Niall Barry's
movements.

In the days leading up to Ashley's
murder,

I've got Niall Barry going into the
flat.

Skip forward, later on,

on the evening on the 19th,

there's a number of males that seem
to come and go from that flat

and we can identify this taller
male as Niall Barry.

So we've got Barry returning and
remain there really

until the Sunday morning on the
21st.

That now all fits in with what Niall
Barry's said

in his prepared statement in the
interview.

Yeah. That's correct.

I've been reviewing the CCTV to see
if I can see the car.

The Hyundai that we believe is
connected to Ashley's murder

and I've found it.

Clearly the same make and model of
the one that we're looking for.

We can see these two males exit
that vehicle

and then walk down Pilch Lane.

One of these males, we believe is
James Witham.

He is known to police.

Intelligence suggests that Witham
works for Barry's OCG.

We have information about them
working together

and selling drugs in other parts of
the country.

It looks like county lines.

As you can see, obviously we've got
Witham here,

making his way to the flat

and there is another male that
we've picked up

as part of this footage.

He is seen going into that same
premises

and we have been able to identify
him as Joseph Peers.

We've got less information on Peers,

but he's coming and going with
Witham

and he's using that Hyundai car.

We've got the footage from the
night-time of the 20th.

This is around about 10:10 at night,

a couple of hours prior to the
murder

and about an hour prior to the
tyres being let down.

Not in the best quality, but it
does actually show

two individuals leaving that flat

and they cross over the road

towards where we believe the
Hyundai is parked.

The Hyundai's picked up a few
minutes later,

driving in the direction of
Ashley's house.

Another really key bit of footage,

on May 21st, so this is now
post-murder,

and we see two males return to the
flat on Pilch Lane.

Now we're aware that no other males
have left during that time

because that footage has been
reviewed.

So we're able to say that these two
individuals

are likely to be the two individuals

who left earlier on in the evening,

James Witham and Joseph Peers.

The only people that could have left
that flat,

because we've got them going back,

is Joseph Peers and James Witham.

Yes. And so the only two people at
that time

that have got access to that Hyundai.

Absolutely, yeah.

So we need to find that car and
arrest Witham and Peers,

because whoever was in that car was
responsible for Ashley's murder.

Let's take you live to Liverpool,

where Merseyside Police are giving
an update on their investigation

into the murder of Olivia
Pratt-Korbel.

I'm going to hand you over

to Detective Chief Superintendent
Mark Kameen,

who's our head of investigations.

Good afternoon and thank you once
again for your time today.

Now, I recognise that people will
wonder and question

why no-one's been charged.

I understand fully the thirst
for information

around this terrible crime.

Please be patient with us.

The investigation is progressing.

We have now identified the types
of weapons

that were used by the offender.

One of those guns is a Glock 9mm
pistol.

I can now confirm that this weapon
has been used

in a total of three separate
incidents across Merseyside

in a two-and-a-half year period.

The detectives involved in bringing
justice for Olivia and her family

are working tirelessly to find these
guns

and I'm determined to take these
weapons off our streets

before they maim or kill again.

Our kids have got to grow up into
this place.

We want them to be safe and not fear
for their lives

when they're walking to the shops

or even in their own home.

It's truly frightening and our city
needs help.

Sarge, I've just had a text from
this person in Dovecot

and she's basically said, Cashman's
been seen on a push bike.

She's basically querying, why is he
allowed in the area?

So I've been out to get some CCTV.

Detectives investigate a report

that Thomas Cashman has been seen
on the Dovecot estate,

in breach of his bail conditions.

There he is. Push bike.

Would you say that's him?

Yeah.

He's still on the streets.

He's not trying to hide himself.

So then...

..why is he doing it?

Maybe he wants the community
to see him.

He wants to continue to instil fear.

We've arrested him.

We've kicked him out of the area.

And he's saying like, "Well, I'm
still here."

"I'm still doing what I want."

"Nothing's changed for me, so
nothing's changed for you."

So... Yeah.

Why not go and arrest him for
breaching bail conditions?

What we've got is, we've got him on
footage on a bike,

cycling past the road

and that's all that we've got
at the moment.

It'd be different if he was calling
at addresses that are witnesses.

So it's a judgement call on which
way you go with it.

Is it a difficult judgement call?

Yeah. Yeah, it is,

because your automatic reaction is
the same

as what any member of the public
would be, is...

"Well, let's go and get him back
in."

"Let's lock him up and get him
off the streets again."

But how's it going to affect the
long-term goal of a conviction?

Do you think he feels a bit
untouchable?

Oh, yeah. Definitely. Yeah.

He thinks he runs them streets,

sees himself as some sort of, like,
Robin Hood character.

We've even had around times with
Covid

and times when there was
restrictions on,

he was going out in the community,

going to local shops, going to
butchers.

He was buying food items for people
that were struggling in the area.

It reminds you almost like of,

like, gangsters in the old days
where,

you know, like Capone and all them
type of ones,

where they'd stand at the end of
trucks and throw food to people.

That's almost like what you get
from him,

but all them people have got
that other side to them

where if you get on the wrong side
of them,

it's very different.

We've been busy.

We've reviewed the account of the
female suspect

and she said Thomas Cashman went back
to her home address

immediately after the murder.

Key update from yesterday.

She's no longer a suspect.

She's been subject of NFA.

We had the decision ratified by the
CPS,

so she is now a witness.

We hope that she will step away

from the jeopardy of being a suspect

and she will be able to give us more
detail

in relation to exactly what happened
on the night in question.

..the suite where we're going to go
into.

Right, if you want to take a seat
there for us.

The witness is asked to give a full
account

of Thomas Cashman's visit to her
house

on the night of Olivia's murder.

OK. Where do you want me to start?

Wherever you feel comfortable to
start, that's where we'll start.

So I was in my room.

I just remember being asleep and
being tapped on the leg.

I could just see him with his hands
in his hair.

He's like pulling his hair.

He's, like, pulling his hair,
saying, "It's Tommy, it's Tommy."

"Wake up."

And then I could just hear him say,
"Get me a pair of pants."

He didn't have nothing on.

He just had boxies and socks.

So I've just picked up any pair
of pants.

I know they were a new style
of, er, Under Armour.

And it's got the Under Armour
badge on...

..I think it's the left leg.

I said, "I've gotta phone my fella."

And he's like, "No! No-one can know
I'm here."

But I've still made the phone call
and I've just said,

"Look, Tommy's here."

I couldn't really understand what
he was saying.

He like, stutters, like, he was
stuttering.

Something like, someone... Someone
was coming for him.

He said, "I didn't know where else
to go," or something.

He trusted me.

And then my fella's come up the
pathway.

I just heard, "Joey Nee."

"Lad, Joey. I done Joey, lad, I
done Joey."

I don't know. Something...

Something along them lines.

And that was Tommy saying it to
your fella. Yeah.

And he was outside...? As he was
outside

in the front garden, yeah.

The way he was talking, it was...

It was very stuttering. It was very
nerve.

He was very nervous, you know what
I mean?

I've never seen him like that.

I... I felt like there was
something wrong.

I didn't want to question him

because he can get agitated and
very angry,

so I didn't want that on me at that
time,

especially the way he was.

I didn't want to ask the questions.

In a couple of minutes, the back
door's closed.

Tommy's came up.

He went to put his hands up to me

and I just went like... Like,
I touched him

and he's just squeezed my hands a
bit as he's walked out.

Why do you think he'd come to your
house?

He told me that he trusts me.

He didn't know who else to trust, is
what he said to me.

So your history with him,

just tell us about that.

He started coming, right,

I'm not going to be precise
with dates,

around...

..2019.

He was just coming into the house
with me fella

and a few of the lads,

they were having a little joint one
time.

So he was your father's mate
initially then?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He started coming
to the house.

It was just always every day
sometimes.

It'd be morning time, about 10:00,

because we used to always watch BBC
One.

We used to love all, like, the
fraud, all that stuff.

And he'd always turn up early.

He'd be asking me if I was OK.

No-one in my life has ever
asked me if I was OK.

No-one.

I've had to grow up, like, literally
in a click of the fingers

and look after everyone else around
me.

To me, it was like an angel came

and asking me or listening to me in
what I had to say.

So he'd messaged me, "Do you feel
what I feel?"

Or something like that.

And I was just like, "Why do your
eyes undress me all the time?"

And he just came round.

And that was the first time that we
slept together.

After that it was on-off for a
couple of months,

but we weren't sleeping together
every other time.

It was like, I just...

I got obsessed with him, like.

We knew nothing would come of it
because we knew we couldn't.

I'm really hurt by him

because I honestly seen him as a
good friend to me.

He's jeopardised everyone else's
life

just to save his own back.

And it's all doing my head in

because I'm losing everything me
now.

Just because of what he done that
night,

it's really done me head in.

The reason why I'm doing what I'm
doing

is because I do not want that woman
to feel,

the little girl's mum,

I don't want her to not have them
answers.

It could have been anyone that
night.

It could have been anyone, anyone's
house

and it's her little girl at the end
of the day.

It just took real moral courage to
come forwards.

This is a key breakthrough in the
investigation.

However, we do know that she's
fearful and frightened

and we will do everything we can to
keep her safe.

A warrant is issued to arrest Thomas
Cashman for a second time.

Open up the door. Police!

Police! Police! Police!

Get down! Give me your hands.

Give me your hands. Give me your
hands!

OK. Right, he's detained.

Watch out! There's kids in here.

What's your name?

Thomas Cashman, you know what my
name is.

Stand up.

Watch out! There's kids in here.

There's kids in here.

My kids are in here and yous
are coming in like this.

You're under arrest

for the murder of nine-year-old
Olivia Pratt-Korbel

on the 22nd of August. Something I
haven't done, completely.

You don't have to say anything, but
it may harm your defence

if you do not mention when
questioned,

something you later rely on in
court.

Oh, OK... Anything you do say may be
given in evidence.

Do you have any reply to that?

No, I don't. It wasn't me.

Like I've said before, it wasn't
me. You've got an innocent man...

"It wasn't me, like I said before.
I've got an innocent man." Sound.

I'm a family guy, always have been.

Come on. I love you, lad.

Come in here and take a seat.

Oh, my God. Like...

Last time I was there, yeah, yous
are arresting me.

What the fuck's any different from
the last time yous arrested me?

Nothing.

I told yous last time... There will
be something.

..it wasn't me. I'm telling you
this time, it wasn't me.

OK, don't get yourself agitated.

Just stating facts.

I hate you, the pair of yous.

You, you're a prick.

And you're a fucking prick as well.

Both yous are fucking arseholes.
Put that on the camera.

I don't need to, it's recording.
Yeah, sound.

Make sure you go home and fucking
play it to yourself

and realise you are a fucking
arsehole.

OK.

All right. No worries.

And you ma'am. Thanks. Bye.

..off. Sick of that bullshit.

The offence, please? The offence of
murder.

Olivia Pratt-Korbel.

The tapes are rolling.

I'm downstairs watching the, um, the
interview. OK.

All right, Thomas, this interview is
being digitally audio recorded.

You were arrested and cautioned.

And your reply to caution was, "It
was not me."

One of the reasons why you've been
locked up

is people have put your name in the
inquiry

to say that you're responsible

for shooting Olivia Pratt-Korbel,

the attempted murders of Cheryl
Korbel and Joseph Nee.

What I'm gonna go through now is a
witness statement.

Now, she said this.

She says that around 10:38 at night,

30 minutes after shooting,

she was asleep in bed.

She woke up to someone tapping her
leg at the bottom of her bed.

And you're standing there in your
boxer shorts,

asking for clothes.

What is your relationship?

Thomas?

When was the last time you spoke
to her?

Is she someone you can trust?

Is that why you went round there
half an hour after the murder?

You said, "Get me a pair of pants."

"Then I gave him some pants."

"He was in his boxies and shorts. He
was stuttering."

"He was saying someone was coming
for him."

"He had a source and someone told
him."

"He went to do something before they
did something."

Did you attack Joseph Nee before he
got you?

Is that what happened?

Is that what you're referring to
there when you said...?

..when you were in her house half
an hour after the murder

and she's heard the word Nee?

It sounds to me like you've...

..confessed...

..or certainly admitted to some sort
of incident with Joseph Nee,

half an hour before.

Are you watching your back, Thomas?

Was the reason that you've gone
after Joey is to protect yourself

because you were frightened?

She goes on to say that you'd said
you'd dropped the stuff off

before coming to that house.

She thought you meant guns.

So the two guns that we talked
about in the last interview,

had you already got rid of them?

We searched your home address...

..and we have seized a number
of items.

So image of Exhibit BTJ...

So it's a pair of Under Armour
trackie bottoms.

These are jogging bottoms.

I find it a coincidence that there's
gunshot residue

on the jogging bottoms that I've just
shown you.

There's traces of gunshot residue
because it gets everywhere.

It's like a cloud of dust.

You can't get rid of it.

It's on them,

it's on the couch that you were sat
on...

..and that's because you fired them
four shots.

That's because you were the gunman.

That's because you were lying in
wait for Joseph Nee.

That's because you chased
Joseph Nee into the Kingsheath.

That's because you murdered Olivia
Korbel.

The game's up, isn't it, Thomas?

This is it.

This is where it ends now.

This is where you stand up and say
what your involvement is.

Or are you going to remain silent?

That's Olivia Pratt-Korbel.

A nine-year-old girl...

..who was in her bedroom.

A nine-year-old girl who was
so scared

that she came running out to the
landing

to see her mum,

who had opened the door to try and
help somebody.

All she wanted to do was see her
mummy.

She ran downstairs to see her.

Cheryl tried to shut the door

and you stuck your gun in and shot
inside

to try and finish off Joseph Nee.

And you have hit Cheryl in the hand.

And that's gone through and killed
Olivia.

Do you not like that?

Is that too much?

Do you not think Cheryl deserves to
know who shot her daughter?

Who murdered her daughter?

Did you murder Olivia Korbel, Thomas
Cashman?

I've got no more questions.

Anything to eat?

Thomas Cashman, I've come to charge
you.

OK?

You're charging someone who's
innocent.

I've done nothing wrong.

OK.

I'm gonna charge you with the
following offences.

On the 22nd of August at Kingsheath
Avenue, Liverpool, Merseyside,

you murdered Olivia Pratt-Korbel.

No, I didn't.

No, I didn't.

On the 22nd of August, 2022,

you attempted to murder Joseph Nee.
No, I didn't.

Got that?

And on the 22nd of August at
Kingsheath Avenue, Liverpool 14,

you attempted to murder Cheryl
Korbel.

No, I didn't.

I didn't do none of them offences.

We will see you in court.

Yeah, we will.

To clear my name.

OK.

The Crown Prosecution Service has
authorised Merseyside Police

to charge Thomas Cashman

with the murder of nine-year-old
Olivia Pratt-Korbel

on the 22nd of August, 2022.

Our thoughts are with Olivia
Pratt-Korbel's family at this time.

How do you feel about a witness
coming forward?

Very grateful.

Yeah, it's huge, you know, a
valuable witness.

You know, hopefully that ensures we
get the conviction that we need.

That's... It takes a lot of bravery
to do what she's done. Um...

..but at the end of the day, it's
the right thing to do.

Liverpool do stick together. Yeah,
they do.

One of their own gets... Yeah.

..gets hurt, they stick together

and... You're going to have a
minority

that are going to protect these
perpetrators.

You will have. You're going to get
that.

But I think the majority,
definitely, in Liverpool, are...

..they're good people.

They stand up for what's right.

Do you think that played
a part here with the witness?

Yeah. Yeah, without a doubt.

It's her conscience that's got the
better of her.

She's had to say something
because...

..it'd have only...

..put her through more pain.

Guilt would've ate away at her,
wouldn't it? Yeah.

The guilt would have ate her.

Cashman says he's innocent and he
will fight this in court.

If he's any type of man,

he'd admit what he's done.

Which makes him not a man.

Merseyside Police hunting the killer
of 28-year-old Ashley Dale

have released CCTV footage

of a car seen in the area before the
murder.

Police want to trace a grey Hyundai
car

spotted in Page Moss and Dovecot.

These are people who are
thoughtless, mindless, callous

and are prepared to break into a
house

indiscriminately shooting a firearm

and kill an innocent woman.

So we've got two suspects here on
Operation Perth,

which is the Ashley Dale murder,

a James Witham and a Joseph Peers.

Detectives investigating the killing
of Ashley Dale

have received information about the
possible whereabouts

of the two men wanted for her murder.

A firearms team is sent to intercept
the car

they are believed to be travelling
in.

It might have just passed us in lane
two.

It was a black Audi Q7.

RADIO: Yes, received, thank you.

There it is. There it is. That was
it. Lane two then.

That was it. Lane two.

It just passed Tebay and it was
going at some speed.

Lights on.

Gear shifts, going for the stop now.

Vehicle slowing. Hard shoulder.
Stand by.

They've just pulled it.

ON RADIO: They've got two that I can
see.

Just stick your hands where I can
see them, pal.

Put you in some handcuffs. Yeah, one
about that side.

All right, mate?

I'm gonna put you in cuffs, mate.
All right?

Peers and Witham. Fantastic.
Right...

James? All right. OK.

You're under arrest for suspicion
of murder. All right?

You don't have to say anything

but it may harm your defence if you
don't mention when questioned

something you later rely on in
court.

Anything you do say may be given in
evidence. All right?

Just meeting my mate, lad. Meeting
in the lay-by?

The size of the footwear is
important for us as well.

Footprints have been filed from the
scene.

Size eight-and-a-half

left by the offender as they fled
the scene.

Can you give us an indication of
what size trainers they're wearing?

Size seven for the one I've got
arrested, Peers.

What size foot are you, mate?

Eight. Eight?

Eight for Witham. Seven for Peers.

So these two work for Niall Barry.

And if they carried out the attack,
it would be for him,

but we need something from them
that links back to Niall Barry.

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