Original subtitles

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but to date weather scans I'm the new

KGB FM stereo 95.3 serving truth can

meet a lot more head elevated we durdle

area

Jeff Boselli was at the State

Penitentiary at Parchman today and filed

the story a death row inmate at Parchman

is scheduled to die again Cambridge to

lease the minerals junkies convicted of

the 1979 shouldn't yet and warm-up shows

partial JT strategy on Sanders journeys

and the American Civil Liberties Union

say they've got a strategy to save the

inmate relates to the faith of planes

and the American Civil Liberties day go

to hell man go to head now get this news

ride I don't need that Mouse

it was quite easy what we like to do

what we gonna do all right what are we

I'm talking by statue don't get it clean

this time ain't let but again

this film is about the death penalty in

the state of Mississippi and the effect

it has on the staff and inmates as time

runs out for 126 year-old man Edward o

Johnson Johnson has been appealing

against his sentence for eight years in

the United States courts he was

convicted in 1979 of killing a

Mississippi town marshal and the

attempted rape of a 60 year old one he

has spent the last eight years on this

death row and has always professed his

innocence I say we'll meet next Friday

the only thing that might cancel that is

if he receives a stay of execution

between now then so at this point in

time the Attorney General's Office still

feels very much like the execution will

be a go all y'all know you know that

could change right up to midnight the

20th I got one last thing to say and I'm

gonna try to start getting ready to get

out of here I will not tolerate one

off-color remark by anybody on this

staff about the execution and just

because I don't have to look forward to

doing my job in this kind of situation

doesn't mean that I can't be tolerant of

others who perhaps look forward a little

more eagerly to doing it but they can

look forward to it and still do it in a

professional manner and I assure you

I've never been more serious about a

threat that I've made since I've been

here if I hear anything that I don't

like from staff of this institution they

are going to answer to me directly and

personally I'm sure I'll be stuck with

an action later but the personnel

department will have to clean it up and

that's a promising option I'll get rid

of

Satya this boy's family did not murder

this police officer this boy's family

did not ask for their son to be in this

situation they didn't raise him to be in

this particular and I've done some

checking and looking into records and

stuff as a matter of curiosity this guy

iddin from some family of bozos you know

this guy represents the situation that

could happen to anybody you know you've

got some heartbroken parents that spent

seven years trying to figure out what

the hell went wrong we don't execute

rapists and armed robbers anymore and so

when we do execute people we execute

people that situationally anybody could

find themselves in the same shoes you

get a bad mixture of booze and bad

character or dope and booze and poor

judgment and my son your son your

daughter could end up on death row and

by god that doesn't make me bad that

does not make me bad as a parent and

that means that that family is entitled

to a modicum of respect from this

department in this institution I'm going

to have it and I'll tell you why I'm so

adamant about it because I'm concerned

about some of the kind of stuff that I

hear rumblin wise about people being

upset about not being involved and this

that another thing it's like I said to

hit the darn hole cut and a couple of

others of you last night I worry about

people who are eager to stand in line to

methodically strap somebody into a chair

and kill

lemme talk why any kids that's good I

think I can get the boy

bet ya wondered it

Oh

all right

last time I was out here talking with

you I asked you whether or not if this

thing up precedes to the negative

conclusion whether you learn any

medication on the last thing I asked you

to think about that what are you

thinking

well I'm not gonna ask you about it

anymore especially since your lawyers

hope not not to converse with me

anything else on you man

I guess it's gonna be last time you're

not talking a lot they still the date

for me for May 20 to be executed if I

don't get no relief from my review from

the United States Supreme Court I'll be

executed sometime I'm depressed

oh I think about your funny thing is I

think about a future

now that might seem kind of crazy I

would future could I pop the hell and

knowing that my supposed to be executed

next two weeks

I can't plan on foods but thanks about a

future I'll think about my past the

thing I used to do to people I know

people who care about academia I think

of all that

okay

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at the scene of the crime where Johnson

allegedly robbed a 60 year old woman and

killed a local town marshal an old Buick

car was seen because Johnson owned a

Buick he was arrested with others and

put in front of an identity parade the

woman who was robbed and nearly raped

had known Edward Johnson most of his

life she saw me she told the

investigator that she knew me and know

that I wasn't alone did I broken her

home because she told me what she told

me I wasn't she said though the person

go here was a bad lad but maybe a little

heavier and had a full bear the dead

time out I don't have no beer in the

we're never deadly let me go

they picked up again yesterday as in

question they asked me

to go and they kept badging about the

gun a gun

that didn't work so they asked me would

I be willing to take a lot of

temperatures I got told him you know I

ain't did that yeah I take so I treat it

you know gave him permission you take a

lie detector so that mean they had to

take me to Jackson and wait to Jackson

they pull over they told me you're gonna

tell this off but we want to hear are

you ain't going

he said nigga all we have to say you did

she jumped out the car and ran

and you know Dan I didn't know worth the

time I'm 18 you inside the ruin with

nobody round to say anything in my

behalf I mean you know I miss all sunny

in late I don't know nobody in this era

nobody's behind me father

ain't none of my realtor with me I got a

sheriff and investigated with me and

they talking crazy

they both white and I'm black in the

backseat in Mississippi dead on side of

the rule and they done told me this I

don't know what to do it was a choice of

you may say telling them anything I'll

go ahead and head them but did you know

do what they said they were gonna do

so what they did in turn on a tape

recorder and he went over the whole

incident in their own words and made me

repeat it into the table all the

officers returned with Johnson to the

Sheriff's Department using the tape

recording made on the side of the

freeway they write out a confession and

asked Johnson to sign it

all they ask where is hastened and I

don't know what to see he see the word

babble here don't really do sign so I

signed it wife basically called he told

me to sign and I was scared you know I

don't know but they got me by myself

nobody knows where I'm at you know the

last time did my relatives enter by the

New World was it was I was supposed to

be on the way to Jackson's of this one

he thought upset he was

didn't watch the room

really I didn't know you know I didn't I

didn't know no rights we decided you

know state no Biden remineralize my

lawyers tried to attack the confessions

you know to how it was obtained they

didn't want her then all they want to do

was look we got it and that's all that

counts

he's guilty I was guilty before I was

convicted and get it before I even win

the trial you know the main point was

that white a white man was killed and

they have black man accused of doing it

and they said he done it and that was it

okay

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but what you do with the gas pass now

I'll glue to that pickup out there and

also banks

Don ready for sauna

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hey we're ready

Oh

ready

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I've been wrong

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last night Oh officer came down he told

his data they was conducting some kind

of test I stand for the gas team I

gather the girls he was trying that's

enough

but do you see it dad

you know you know he they trying it out

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not only grip me in my heart but he

gripped everybody else because it's the

thought you know they just already

assuming they're gonna kill me

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you could hear the same sound almost

identical same smear they executed as me

it's a sound a smell so like almonds

senator I saw it my appeals don't

succeed they're rejected only 12 days

in fact you want to use it not only me

they let them say what point they have

two faces

do you personally believe in the death

no I guess the best way to answer that

is is to give a qualified yes and I

don't believe in it as a deterrent to

crime because

statistically I don't think you can

prove or disprove whether it's really

effective as a deterrent or not

beautiful here I think the death penalty

represents nothing more than the

ultimate punishment okay the most

heinous crimes the society feels have to

be dealt with in final fashion I

certainly have no trouble believing it

for child killers for people who like

this young man murder the police officer

I'll have to admit 20 years ago I felt

pretty strongly opposed to the death

penalty but then I was I was just back

from Vietnam and was just beginning a

career in Corrections and I think I

thought that after what I'd seen and

participated in in Vietnam there had to

be a better way to do things other than

only killing no matter what the purpose

was but 20 years in Corrections has a

way of influencing your outlook on

things I think there has to be an

ultimate penalty

take this simply gum I'm gonna come on

around I'll meet you in the other side

that every we'll head and let you

through there and I'll come meet you the

other side

I'll even take the hint us all here and

picking us off here put in the front

themselves kind of hard for you sit down

like that

it may never get to xx God may intervene

before the 20th ever gets here he's

scripture talks about him working in

mysterious ways and yeah I may never get

you a make it here and you may have to

face it but I know the people what

you're saying is it the frustration

getting is for tomorrow and getting down

again Binda but all just without that

copy oh it's all in the hands his is

just you no doubt cloudy in the town but

you know you put your trust and the

whole hearted and God see he raised all

that down here and give you feeling the

you know you're relaxed you just don't

have nowhere

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dude

now I don't believe it really it's all

something in you it couldn't have come

without sunk in I probably be then run

my head through walls you know what I'm

saying but I look at it like this ten

days have I ever been this close to

death before I guess I get afraid of

time

yeah every time I heard Oh squeak I'm

looking you know one no I banging out

there by the gate shame myself they been

doing me how to look at it

gazing he might sit

see thing about has been there for the

seven years I've been there is nothing

new to look at nothing new to think it

I'm sort of straddle offense was the

death penalty is consumed I am is some

time I'm not so really how I'm sort of

strap offense something need to be done

for some of the crimes that's gonna

commit it I'm sure that the health pill

is this I think if a person can't give a

lot I should be able to take I don't

know so I got mixed feelings about it

regardless of whether mr. Gaston legal

injection under the electric chair

regardless of the method you know it's

good you're here to take a life or so

Riddick whatever nothing that you

doesn't mean to make any different you

know who necessary one thing come of all

of us here is that we have no money and

we cannot who couldn't afford quality

representation the type representation

that would have made a fair trial

it takes money to fight the state the

state has all the resources in the world

when they're trying to see a Deltan

sense that they they have all results

have been disclosed only nine times I'm

10 will stuck with an attorney who

doesn't even have a moral conviction

that the death penalty is wrong

seeing what he does is functioning like

a sister to the DA you know the terms

represent most pool and ditches all

state plan attorneys

the same when you look at me you

consider the economic factor there not

know the terms they do represent

individuals in this situation and to

trial level they're not going against

the state the state payer ceremi

statistically in the united states at

the moment the figures show that if

you're poor and black you're more likely

to end up on death row right actually in

Mississippi about 67 percent of the

entire incarcerated population is poor

undereducated black males so yes

logistical II the poor undereducated

in order is probably more likely to

receive a death sentence based on the

fact that they do not have funds to hire

the best and the most appropriate legal

assistance

the system is unjust but the system and

in the fact that six thirty percent of

the people in prison up in Mississippi

all minorities is just as unjust as that

a percentage of blacks are minorities in

the intestines either way we'll talk

about an unjust situation that's based

on the amount of funds that you have

failed while the lack of on yeah so no

the system is not perfect

sure I want this rule and everyone

expects me to see our own difference

but I'm saying how wrong a different is

because I see how wrong meters I'm

experiencing it society as an experience

it because it has a touch society and

new and the emotional or in the

individual sense

do you believe in the death penalty for

some crimes at one point I did at one

point but seeing how the death penalty

is being applied no I don't

the majority of Americans would think

that a lot of people here on this death

row have committed a lot of the pool and

crimes murder that's and that you should

be here

the same to most people

most people only hear what authority is

telling them as I say if you're not

aware of effects they're not aware of

pricing

I feel it I feel it being misled but

I've been in a situation for 11 years

initially I was charged with capital

murder and convicted 19 in November 1976

how have you cope with that 11 years

it's a long time

there's a long time

I'm guessing a my belief in God has

something to do with it

and I've asked myself that question

before - you know I might as a black

person

it's a citizen of this country you know

my people always had to endure

oppression and repression and just of

this kind in my source is part of my

experience you know it's it's in mine my

consciousness you know to Co not feel

the same way about earlier that you know

I shared experience what he's going

through

I'm sharing it with him it's like a

logical taught you this

because that's what it is you know up to

the part where they take him out and

executed we know is torture I mean we

all go through this we all went through

this with him everybody here but it's

bad a death row inmate at Parchman is

scheduled to die in the gas chamber in

less than two weeks Edward Earl Johnson

was convicted of the 1979 shooting death

of Wallace Bros Marshall JT tres

Johnson's attorneys and the American

Civil Liberties Union say they've got a

strategy to save the inmate from

execution on the 20th of May they

declined to give the table to that plan

but this say there are racial factors to

consider in the Johnson case they say a

recent study shows those who killed

whites are more likely to be sentenced

to death than those who killed my

Johnson is black and the victim was

white

here's what's exist several of our

viewers if they think jumping should go

to the castien

what do you think about the case do you

think Johnson should be executed or not

well I'm totally against and they'll

penalty under circumstances I don't

think that a life for life accomplishes

anything so I don't think it should be

acute in any rate whether the person's

natural life do you think Johnson should

be executed or not

made his money murdered some morning I

should paint with during life the

conditions here are similar to slavery

tax don't think difference between now

and 1860 is the year the word gains are

just that you know that they're there

it's mostly like a make-work situation

whereas rather than just sitting idle as

we do to give them something to do you

know cleaning up around here

cutting grass digging ditches snows it's

slavery modified and to today's world no

it's just a big plantation that's been

changed by the by the name you don't

still have calling it a plantation today

they call it a farm but you know there's

no difference

but we've got here is the petition for

you on you know going to the Mississippi

Supreme Court we have to go there first

for kids you have to do that there's

absolutely no chance of actually

achieving anything there because they've

already made up their minds that they

want to see you go on 20 but hopefully

we'll be out of there in a couple of

days so we can go straight into federal

court and that's where something's going

to happen I mean when you're when you

get to read to this stuff there's

there's some really serious stuff an

integral knowing the ineffectiveness

claim would win in any reasonable case

our problem of course is the publicity

and the pressure that people are going

to feel and all this and in a farewell

you're gonna win that the world isn't

always I'm fast and we'll just have to

keep our fingers crossed keep crying

the facts of the case those that your

black kid in the county which has got a

bunch of planned people and they get

around they get around shooting Freedom

Riders and let me get quitted you know

and the fact is that you're accused of

basically that attempting to rape a

white woman and killing a white police

officer those are the two most painless

things that for a white person in

Mississippi can happen the fact that

they miss advisor is one prong of what

we have to show the other side you have

to show is that the result would have

been different whatever happens we're

going to file in the federal district

court on Friday because we can't wait

any longer we're talking about next

weapon stick for the date so if we foul

then there are two options either we'll

get a stay right away if you believe

everything we've said and the petition

or he'll think there are some procedural

bars and we've got to have a hearing on

this in which case we'll probably have a

hearing on it Monday morning and Dawn at

that stage he'll either give a stay or

not give us a Monday afternoon the last

two cases we've had got stayed the day

before the thing yeah cerimon you know

unfortunately it's a nasty experience to

get that close to the venue I'm

beginning to feel the pressure

personally a little bit more than I

thought I were a week ago or even a

month ago I think probably that's

increased since I've talked to this guy

a couple of times

I haven't forgotten what he's here for

but there's no question that over a

period of time some of the some of the

barriers you might think would be there

forever begin to come down a little bit

a night I probably am going to avoid

talking to you Johnson any more than 1/2

D from here on out until Tuesday when

I'll probably be spending a fair amount

of time with me you saw he's guilty I

think I miss personally I'm insurer's I

think he can be from from reading the

record of what happened the testimony

was pretty clear I don't I don't have

any difficulty with that are you

expecting a state

I think it's a possibility but I think

because of the way things are going that

it could be it could be rather late in

the game as these things go I don't

expect to stay if one comes until

probably Monday at the earliest and very

possibly not until Tuesday almost to

Friday

can't get much better than that except

paper

him up here now we're gonna have to talk

to them and kind of just catch up on

what Arrangements he wants to make you

concerning the execution of meals and

all that stuff how has he been behaving

he well the last six months I've been

over here no problem

how you doing Edward okay come on all in

the talking

what

sunny he's just fine our friend he

indicated to me quite treaty without

being prodded he's not having any

trouble sleeping he was aware by hearing

on the news that the state Supreme Court

turned to stay down but he's hopeful of

other avenues he is not wanting for

anything recovered again what

arrangements he wanted his family

visiting he again indicated he certainly

realized as time is getting short but he

remains cautiously optimistic and in

short he's probably in better mental

condition tonight

thanks the interesting thing is of

course that his attorneys in the motions

they have filed with court they are

asking the court now to stay his

execution because he is not seen and the

basis upon which they have concluded

he's not saying is that he has to calm

anybody is close to being executed as he

is should not be nearly as calm about

the whole thing as he is so they're

obviously grasping for straws which

knows understandable they're doing their

job but it suggests that they really

just haven't got much left to deal with

now a convicted killers last resort

today the state Supreme Court denied a

request to delay the execution of Edward

Earl Johnson he's scheduled to die next

Wednesday the nation's highest court

previously refused to hear Johnson's

last direct appeal his lawyers are

asking the justices to reconsider the

decision from Washington could come

Monday Johnson is on death row for

killing a walnut grove town marshal in a

way I've been preparing this for 19

years in a career preparing for it I

think that um I understand I'm beginning

to understand and probably will

understand even better after the

execution why strangely enough over the

years at least in this country um a

number of wardens who have

large numbers of execution in the 30s

and 40s when they were prevalent

nonetheless despite fact they did the

jobs fold the switches are pushed the

buttons many many times were nonetheless

very strong opponents of capitalism they

did the jobs and they did it frequently

far more frequently than anybody in my

generation of wardens would have to do

but nonetheless they they were opposed

to it and I I have a feeling that when

this is all over I don't think I'm going

to suddenly make any great changes and

become an opponent of capital punishment

but I think that I'm going to be able to

better understand the search for another

way they're just starting to feel it's

just just now people are starting to

realize that it's probably gonna happen

but there's still people little all the

way up till the last day even people

that do get executed sometimes don't

even believe they're going to be

executed til they get in it but it's

starting to build a little bit you know

things people are starting to be a

little quieter you know the last little

comments are being kicked around about

it and and sad feelings are going around

some people maybe there's a little bit

of fear but it's just a line and you

just gotta wait in line until it happens

and you got to watch all this happening

it's just torture but then one thing

that has helped me a great deal I had an

old minister telling me one time and

reminded me that we're all under the

death penalty we're all dying none of us

has a guarantee of tomorrow the only

difference is these fellows has a date

set they know that such-and-such a date

I'm gonna be placed in the gas chamber

and I'm gonna die

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as of yesterday the Attorney General's

Office was of the opinion that he would

not be granted relief by the state

Supreme Court they have also filed a

petition for clemency with governor it

does not appear that the governor will

grant relief on that request although he

has to have a hearing on it his greatest

hope at this point in time lives with

the federal district court in Jackson

judge Barbour who has handled this case

on previous occasions there is probably

at least a 50/50 chance to judge Barbour

and grant a stay of execution however

there is some discussion as to how long

the stay will be it could be six months

it could be two months it could be a

week it could be a few days we're going

to proceed on the assumption that even

if the execution is stated for xx that

it will not take too terribly long for

the state of be dissolved so that we can

continue to be in a state of

preparedness for this I think probably

unless somebody moves very quickly today

and I honestly don't expect that we're

going to come down to the wire on this

thing the chamber has been thoroughly

examined by manufacturing reps and by us

and will be examined again by us Sunday

and again Tuesday afternoons I don't

expect any difficulties but I want you

all to be aware for those of you have a

role in this thing however indirect may

be that if there's an Alf function of

some kind if the solution and the

cyanide did not mix properly the

execution will be carried out it's

simply a process having to clear the

chamber and do it again obviously I

think everybody hopes that doesn't

happen but I want this staff to be

professional we're going to discuss how

we did what we did and what we can do to

improve it because they are going to be

able to execute

here in the next year and a half two

years this boy's mother is a part-time

law enforcement official he comes from a

relatively good family they are entitled

to some dignity in terms of the way we

do our jobs now for those of you who are

in the custody ranks in particular and

believe me I understand cyber war in the

uniform - I understand this man killed a

police officer

that doesn't change anything if he

killed one of your best friends on the

guard force we'd still have to carry

this out in a responsible fashion we

have to repent and we have to come to

the knowledge of the truth we have to

accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and I

know ever that God is working from you

I see evidence of things taking place in

your life that I know that God's not

left you alone that he's with you

I'm in the feeling although like you see

it I still need to be deep in repentance

my boy and I just had to wait God work

on me with that I've seen things in you

that I seen God dealing and I seek out

bringing you to a place o

repentance but you don't have anything

to worry about

normal thing you know it's like I've

told you God knows you're beginning that

he knows your pian he knows Edward

Johnson better than me better than

anybody

God knows you cuz God created you

defense attorneys for convicted murderer

Edward Earl Johnson tried again today to

postpone the execution of their client

now scheduled for this coming Wednesday

Governor Bill Elaine however refused to

make a decision on granting executive

clemency saying that was premature as of

this time though it appears the

execution may take place as scheduled

Jeff Boselli was at the State

Penitentiary at Parchman today and filed

the story while his attorneys are

reportedly employing more radical

tactics to save their client prison

officials say that Johnson has all but

resigned himself to his fate soon though

manly to ask for clemency

you're told in the dark he wouldn't make

me any decision that was premature at

this time he was waiting to how caramel

not appears he didn't dinner classy I

need a grand sound nervous waiting in my

sleep

other than that bands damn you it's a

long way yes it's a terrible way to know

at that same time I made this have to

wake up to get last morning to know

maybe the last maybe the last minute

maybe dress up no I just got myself

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Oh

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oh yeah

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Oh

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I've never been able to be with the one

one time you may say I haven't contacted

that grid actually touch them and hold

them and be with them you know that's a

new experience it's been through a while

basic through a screen toolbar

always

all these seven years I've been has been

this is just what you call this is a

space and privilege you know

it's really Hill

to give me strength

please change

and you can change in

so I'm just praying it will come on and

maybe we'll be back home it's on a nail

for time and I know how they get

confession out of people they the user

got a new technique they don't beat him

and they have sting gone one time that

was eliminated so now they got all the

world a little ways to get confession

out and we didn't really commit

BitDefender thought you fright and

you'll say anything I'm doing somebody

had a gun pointed into I say anything

myself maybe this would give me a chance

to have a little life left it's not fair

you know I don't think his fans over in

the family he was fed people outside say

it's not fair it's not fair the way it

was running the way it was done but one

person can't do everything

people need help so what else

next week it's gonna be rough here

because you got black guy and the most

guys that are here are black and they go

all feel close they're gonna get most of

them going to unite and it's gonna be

rough a lot of them gonna feel for every

witch it's gonna be rough for us also

because some of us been here six years

ten and more and you got close to him

you know which we shouldn't be but you

can't help but when you're working

around some guys like this this long

period of time and then to see him

actually have to go to the gas happy

we shouldn't be that way but that's the

way it is and we can't do anything about

it you think you did it

I don't know I gotta say I don't believe

waiting around me nope elastic hair

heels I don't believe she's taking an

innocent man might be going to his town

possibily I was terrible

yeah

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depending the officers feel like you did

I believe your daughter around here do

but it would you know you like I say

everybody you know flax meringue all the

white and black offered me he's going

tell they don't get a battle trouble so

you know but that's terrorism majority

of offices here feel that it might melt

on it right is he go has he got bedding

down there right no

[Music]

[Music]

you want to match

[Music]

straighten data

[Music]

how you doing regal

[Music]

[Music]

does travel

[Music]

[Music]

color 14

got everything in one

see you tomorrow

[Music]

simply an astronaut so if you need okay

all right

[Music]

come on Santa

but you call I guess 24-hour watch say

they move you 72 hour before your

execution is carried out there's a you

know in case he limit the people this

one by the cou in

[Music]

he's Exodus to debate

I really been able to say our heart with

you

good luck

I'm hoping and we're going to stay in

actually a nice pizza husband this wing

process

hi Rob

zooom I'm sure

[Music]

say what you say boy this is your lair

cheese

good back

here I was and don't hold something

one

come

he was here but he was back on the back

push on this

and Randy

- like for me we have to service least

and we stay in service Apple that we

heard about 12 o'clock

change keep the spirit he you know proud

change I'm some some hands little I got

sprained flying hope your friend or

yourself which I'm quite sure y'all get

the community behind you know they

believe in your innocent and they doing

all they can who knows it's not them

just not lasting

yeah but they finally believe yesterday

they finally believe you know well

really physically well we're down to

well under 36 hours and still have no

stay of execution one more Avenue of

Appeals close this

the US Supreme Court turned down a

request from inmate to rehear his

petition that they denied a week ago so

basically it comes down to his last

chances are with the state Supreme Court

and the governor's office or the federal

district court in Jackson

Wu your hide the Sun ran away when you

come around you bring Brian is the

perfect me my sweet let's go make a

family they

Inga's joy

I can't find the wings to let you know I

don't have any personal animosity

towards him he committed a very very

serious crime more than a crime of

passion and more than what somebody

would do if if they were just caught by

surprise her frightened in the act of

committing a property crime and he shot

the man five times but he's a he's a guy

who's been on death row almost eight

years and nobody's ever heard from him

you know he's a typical death row

prisoner he was like your service girl

yeah um I don't have any I don't have

any qualms at all about about him having

committed to crying no

undoubtedly I think the legal system has

always worked on the basis of some some

difference in terms of what a private

attorney a private well-paid turn can a

conference for somebody what a public

defender can Congress that that's a flaw

in the system but I don't think I don't

think it has to be a fatal flaw I think

we have to worry about is the person

guilty

did he clearly beyond all reasonable

doubt commit the crime knew he told me

the coin

six

look now you wanna call your office okay

[Music]

okay all right

he did admit with George barber they

haven't here some of the procedure

things that it wasn't that appear that

he found and he's in he's in the Korean

written that he's a client

they're lacking Rosa he told me call

back about another hour need let me know

something classics

situation wardens find themselves you

make choices about your death row

inmates you know and doesn't come down

to a case of what do you feel any

affection or emotion about a given case

I don't that's not the situation with

this guy at all but what happens is last

night for instance when I went down

there to move him I had to walk by the

cell of another inmate who deserves to

be on death row killed a police officer

cold-blood and has a prior criminal

record there are others here on the road

that I'd much prefer to take to the gas

chamber than iske I think I have found

myself and work through that more than

anything else it's not a case of emotion

or affection for this kid it's just a

case of season I'm not saying he doesn't

deserve go but maybe here I'll be 19th

and lying instead of first alright

they're the town to execute me

I'm the temple nothing's cuz I don't

believe it

consider now way a case to be I don't

see and I don't believe it for one

minute

and I refuse to break in a way I can't

do that I refused

it's good enough that I can be you know

around my family to over me know and I'm

psyched and stuff like that and then

they really give me a good finna give me

more strength and I get em straight we

draw of each other know things did I

think about known contacting seven years

you know I think about all the other

things I miss you know like I hope

you've seen to moon said about three

times and in seven years I'll get seven

years and haven't been one time that I

actually got a chance to go outside and

you look up at the stars and the moon

you know and it's a word feeling you

know it even though I'm chained down but

it's a weird feeling it be able to look

up see the moon actually learning stars

up on here's the one that I can do that

but get a glass

just kidding do you feel good you feel

almost free even don't know the

circumstances in a way do you get

I'd like bill again you know I expect to

get it again

it's spraying just not just the inmates

here this last before out of frame view

is also most of the staff are different

I'm hoping for stay and of course myself

and the film itself even two weeks now

they see new it it don't matter how you

portray a person be you say dangerous

you see viciously may fight it to drop

over here that's the report that's been

given all this time all these years of

people here but once you get to know

somebody in a personal way but you can't

have to be emotionally involved

it's like the gods they've known me for

seven years

we killed around we shared things ago

now gets them involved just like in a

wait with a family cost they stayed here

actually as much as they are and

we're getting to do some kind of

relationship became there can't stop day

that can't be stuff

Oh

this is neighbor Johnson yeah

oh yeah

but I know

this time

mmm

okay I'll just wait okay

the field circuit denied somewhat

claimed it was only a petition so now

they don't filed in the fifth circuit

the way now

so you bill takes three or four hours

just a Brian

meanwhile Edward Earl Johnson sits on

death row in parchment scheduled to die

in the gas chamber at a minute after

midnight Don Cabana warden of Parchman

and acting corrections commissioner says

he's spoken with Johnson every day since

the decision to execute him was made my

conversations with him I'm impressed

with the fact that he he's at peace with

himself and has accepted the reality of

the situation

Rep Cabana says the final stages of

preparation at the prison have already

begun for this afternoon Cabana says an

institutional emergency situation will

be declared during which traffic through

the president will be limited as the

final hours are counted down earlier

today Judge William barber denied a

request to stay the execution John sirs

lawyers have appealed to the Fifth

Circuit Court of Appeals the name of

Jesus cross to die

that's good news a motion

here's some salt and pepper our kitchen

this colony

we do still have an execution that is

proceeding on schedule the 5th Circuit

Court of Appeals has affirmed the

conviction I guess and denied the

request for stay of execution from

Edward Earl Johnson filings have already

taken place with the United States

Supreme Court the attorney general's

office advises me that we may hear from

the US Supreme Court within an hour I

think it's fair to say that we do not

expect the US Supreme Court to issue any

stage in this matter it will apparently

come down to the governor's office and

any clemency petitions he may entertain

I can't conjecture about that my

impression from my conversations with

governor and the governor's office the

last two days is that is not a strong

likelihood either so we are prepared to

carry out this execution at 12:01

tomorrow morning or soon after that time

as possible something do you think

Edward o Johnson

talk with him on several occasions and

he has more than one time told me that

he had did not do the crime that he's

here for he did not assault the lady

that supposedly assaulted and I believe

his attorney says there several good

points that should be looked at but yet

so far in the game until nobody would

hero which doesn't make sense at all to

me in society that's supposed to be

civilized and the caring society that

cares for those people that are really

down and out or downtrodden certain the

Earl would be at this point so you're

saying in your

an innocent man's going to go to the gas

chambers I believe there

yes well this morning we lost in federal

district court not to me

so that was later than we expected and

to be quite honest I expected to win

there I really did we had a hearing last

night everything went very well and we

had to win the judge was out to get us

and he really did get us very badly and

after that I thought things were pretty

much all over him

then we went to the Fifth Circuit Court

of Appeals and we went to the judge's

chambers there and now they're in

Jackson as I went into his office to

file the appeal they looked on the word

processor and he'd already written the

denial of the appeal before we'd even

done it however he'd already written it

he'd already written it was running out

on the printer before we'd even filed

the appeal and he denied this oral

argument however Wesley is that

constitutional well I mean who knows

what's constitutional with these people

but it's absolutely abnormal and it's

thoroughly unfair but fortunately in an

effort to make things even worse for us

he really messed up I mean he hadn't

considered it properly and you've really

screwed up consequently he gave us

another issue for the Supreme Court when

we were beginning to run out of issues

and we went to the Supreme Court at

about eight o'clock this evening four

hours before the ladies do I'm pretty

sure we've got four judges there we

always have two and we may have two more

we need one more probably to get us

staying and we've got a real good issues

on

you know you can't be confident on these

things but there's something going on

ahead we'll see

I think we've go now about three hours

left that's not that abnormal I mean

these things normally go down to the

wire you're losing the second good the

trouble is they've tried this curse took

that man everyone's out to get ed

fidelity man we're gonna be lucky

there's also the governor we're gonna be

lucky there forget that but real sick

they'll say well hey

you

[Music]

in just about two hours Edward Earl

Johnson will be in the gas chamber at

Parchman penitentiary and unless the

courts or the governor intervene between

now and then Johnson will die for the

murder of a Mississippi lawman

[Music]

Johnson's attorneys are expected to

fight the execution to the last but

parchment officials are proceeding his

plan and at 4:00 p.m. today the

penitentiary entered a state of

emergency operation

[Music]

about one hour before the scheduled

execution Johnson will be moved from

death row to the last night room as its

referred to where he will be held until

taken to the gas chamber for execution

scheduled for one minute after midnight

in event that there may be a stain and

the Attorney General's Office works to

dissolve that study the state has until

midnight before the 21st for the

execution according to state laws will

include a representative from the

sheriff's office - ministers - positions

and five media representatives mm embers

of two members of the victim's family

may be present request is yet

[Music]

it seems very very bad still not without

hope I still just can't give up but it

looks real bad everyone you know this is

good film you don't like I feel just you

know as much a part of him as a person

could be all I have the game as close as

a brother to him you know they've kept

him here seven years you know killing

him daily not even finally killing

everyone here is dying tonight

part of them no life

I can never be the same after this I

know be safe you know

we're supposed to be vicious and cruel

but this is this goes beyond anything

anyone could ever do

[Music]

cold Kenny and see what happens with the

governor right all right having let us

know as soon as we yeah bye-bye

store seven - yes yeah

yeah

oh yeah I took them seven you haven't

heard anything from the government

in tonight

stay over there

and it was time son to move to the

isolation cell okay

kids don't

[Music]

all right Sam

okay

I need

Oh chaplains go needle back through

their sick Stars friends here

and get through this together did you

eat any of that shrimp they brought you

this evening

oh yeah you said you never tried shrimp

before is that right hallelujah I'm with

you he's like an aunt in you he saw me

with you beside him unto you Sally with

you he's onto you

with you I mean sleeping

that is going

straight

well

I'm not going to devil it up hopefully

when we take you inside that I have to

attach some around forget what you

column doohickeys that go to the

electrocardiograph machine and he may

need to move that will happen at about a

quarter till at that point in time we

have about five minutes before we remove

you from the isolation cell okay we've

got tits

I've got about eleven thirty three about

twelve minutes until the medic comes in

about 17 minutes until we remove from

the okay

all right we're done we would like to

leave to leave you with people here okay

it was time to rest today one thing we

won't say about it

our hearts are with you we'll still

prank me

take it easy

ladies and gentlemen

at 12 o 6 a.m. Wednesday May 20th Edward

Earl Johnson was executed in the lethal

gas chamber here at Mississippi State

Penitentiary in conformance with the

sentence of the Circuit Court of Lee

County I'll be glad to entertain any

questions you may have

every last thing yes he did he indicated

his innocence and that he regretted the

situation but that he bore no ill-will

towards anyone

and he was thankful that

the process was coming to a close for

himself and his family

and stated

that he was not guilty

how long between the crystals hit the

tray and the time the monitor showed

cardiac arrest the time between the time

the crystals between time the gas struck

his faith and the time cardiac arrest

was pronounced was approximately 12

minutes he was unconscious in less than

a minute if we could let's hear from a

lawyer injury everyone has been very

calm and collected about this well let

me tell you I'm not calm and I'm not

collected I just came from talking with

the family and I asked you rhetorically

what I was meant to say what I was meant

to say why happen I stayed with Edward

Johnson I had a privilege to stay with

Edward Johnson for the last hours of his

life and I can say he was a lot more

calm than I was and I can only say this

when the family asked me why all I could

say was it's a sick world it's a sick

world

thank you

you

hello da all right

yes very loudly tobert told we're just

seeing a big purple th oh no you're a

charming face you know why that is

No

there is there is yes god yeah you a a

you a skype virgin - okay right so you

are now live I've already got some we

had some really brilliant questions

lined up I don't know if you guys want

to introduce yourselves fast now you can

introduce this or I'll say I'm fly than

the other chaps Paul obviously hopefully

you will all know that I'm Clive

Stafford Smith is the founder of

reprieve and Paul directed the film that

you've all just watched fourteen days in

May and I'm going to start off with some

questions that people put in while they

are watching and some of them addressed

to you both and some of them addressed

to either Clive or Paul individually and

I think I'll just start with one for

Clive and that mid-chest and he said it

client he said Clive you were young men

when you're good can you hear me you're

right you went for a minute but if you

start again will be fun and Mitch asked

clover you're a young man when this film

was made what effect did it have on you

personally well I do think about that

because thirty years on I was the same

age as Edward so we were both 27 at the

time and I'm now 57 and Edward is not

and you know that to me is the greatest

tragedy of this whole thing arm there

was a an immense I mean it was a tragic

thing altogether as ghastly and I look

at it and I think if I knew then what I

know now he'd be alive but I do also

look at it that I am so grateful that

particularly through the role did and

the film he made that something positive

was able to come of it and there has

been a tremendous amount of positivity

in the sense of a bunch of young people

who have helped us in the fight I guess

that's uh that's really good I'm that

kind of slides in a bit too a question

that someone else asked in

and some were saying that in kind of in

light of recent films I've been made

about the American justice system it

kind of seems as bleak as ever

and what progresses are made and what do

you think is the positive story that's

come out of kind of the American justice

system over the past 30 years or other

no positives to report I think there's

an awful lot of negative to report and

the negative includes the fact that we

still don't realize what the problem is

and you know the probably of the death

penalty is a ghastly thing and we're

gradually winning that battle that the

reason Edward Johnson got executed

wasn't because of the death penalty it

was because of rotten legal system the

results in a lot of people getting

caught up who had nothing to do with the

crime and you know look I was just

spending the evening working on the case

of Chris Maharaj who was sentenced to

death 30 years ago and he's still in

prison and he's as innocent as the day

is long I'm proud to say that Paul over

there is going to make the documentary

that is going to help get Chris free -

and you know this time Chris won't die

at least I hope not he's 7018 might die

of old age but but we don't recognize

all the problems in the legal system so

we're not beginning to solve them and so

quite a few people had some questions

specifically specifically for Paul and

so I'm Sofia Begum asked kind of how

difficult was this film to make into

filmmaking on special and when

definitely we fought back in the United

States they wrote 37 states that pointed

back all of them except Mississippi

Mississippi said you can't come and make

film on our death row buddy can make a

film about canoodle visits so I went to

Mississippi prison obviously you can't

film could Google visit so I persuaded

that the vise persuaded the government

prison to make a film why I discovered

he was a little I discovered that he

didn't believe in the death penalty and

he persuaded his board to let me in I

wanted to make a film about the morality

of the death penalty and when it came to

or Edwin L Johnson and then involving

climb to represent him he turned up this

is the one person on death row who all

the staff from the from the from the the

vicar to the psychiatrist have

discovered the man that round arrow said

this is the guy that didn't do it it

became a very difficult filmed my team

and I to make because it seemed that

everyone no one wanted to kill this

person but they were going a lot the

system you know I've got another one for

you Paul as well um uh where are we so

Alex Jagger asked and like what did you

think of the chief like in the film he

seems to have quite a nuance for you of

the death penalty uh the government the

prison I imagine living Don Cabana um it

was extraordinary he was the man that

took the risk to let medicine and make

make a film onyx in very different

circumstances and what was he was a man

that thought said to me privately in the

middle of making the film he probably

didn't do it and had to go at all and do

his awful job professionally he made

sure that the family were treated with

extraordinary SPECT so my my empathy

went went up with him after that I will

probably tell you but but briefly after

that he was so upset with a man that he

thought was innocent dying that he was

responsible part of the machinery that

executed that man he he resigned and

left the prison system and became a

lecturer and he definitely lecturer in

in in what the state universities yeah

don't let me speak to let thrown it

beyond was a remarkable guy and on

several levels I've sad to say attended

the executions of six of my clients and

you know well it's always ghastly the

way that John behaved letting us be with

the family until the very last minute

and letting us all be in the same room

was very human and very humane and you

know in other places in Georgia for

example they wouldn't let us be with the

I was representing you know we were only

allowed to talk on to him on the phone

from some other room

the other thing about Don was he did

become a vehement opponent of the death

penalty I I started refusing to call him

as an expert witness because I called

him twice and he had a heart attack each

time and you know I just didn't want to

do that to him and he did sadly not die

of that in the end but in the meantime

he was a wonderful advocate because

unlike me you know some lefty person

who's always been opposed to the death

penalty to have him speak

about being the person responsible for X

actually killing someone and you know

being the person who thought it was okay

at one point but it changed his mind was

incredibly powerful we did a thing on

channel 4 one time after dark where he

and I were on one team if you will

against the

doctor death who was the doctor who

would diagnose people and their mental

illnesses by sitting them in the

electric chair in Texas and interviewing

them there and between us Don and I were

doing this program and we wore this poor

guy down by making him drink too much I

think on television and up until he

finally said threw his hands up and

agreed to be against the death penalty

Don was just a great advocate and a

really good friend he was a good guy um

so Elijah who's watching this who's 13

and he's been told to watch this by his

English teacher he's one of a few people

in the chat who seem to have been told

by a very nice English teacher to come

and watch this stream and he wants to

know about how do you think the death

penalty affects the younger generation

and their views on crime and punishment

well Elijah let me tell you first the

way it's going to affect you mate

is you need to come and work it reprieve

and let us let us exploit you and all

your good work for the next 50 years

look I think the death penalty

highlights a lot of the problems in the

legal system that impact a lot of other

people you know again if you think of

Chris Marker odd he's no longer on death

row

but he's 78 and he's going to die in

prison and when his and I did his

resentencing trial where his sentence

was changed from death to life

imprisonment and it's still a death

sentence he's still going to die in that

prison he's just going to die a lot

slower so I think in one way the death

penalty is a positive thing I know it

sounds bizarre but it it's something

that makes people pay attention to

things the otherwise might not pay

attention to you know you hear someone

serving life and people think oh that's

a double you know it's not it's awful

what we do to people in prison generally

is awful so what I'm hoping is that this

will inspire you Elijah and all your

mates and your teacher don't let your

teacher off the hook and get all of you

to help us work for these people who are

the most powerless people in the world

where the government wants to trample on

them and sacrifice them somehow to this

you know bizarre imaginary god of

deterrence I hope you'll come and help

us I'm so a question for you both but

maybe Paul can start and how do you

think that public opinion has changed

towards the death penalty and in since

the film was made if at all and how do

you see the system changing I think one

of the key things about the film I think

I should preface it by saying that six

months after this film went out climbing

I went back or was the investigative

journalist and found the real killer

the man Edwin Johnson was executed for

and we made a follow-up film called the

journey and I think the pair of those

film together as the BBC sold them

around the world and I'm gaining we're

literally thousands of better from

people as one of the towards the

question it's the Gators in Clive and I

deciding to start reprieve at the

beginning of kitchen-sink operation and

it's become a hugely successful

organization to human rights and say I

saved over 500 lives in the last 15

years so I think that it's had a huge

bet those the Pera films since we been

in

terms of what popular opinion is you

know you're always going to find people

who think that you know an eye for an

eye is somehow going to be a cool thing

to do and I suppose the the saying that

we have is why do we kill people who

kill people to show that killing people

is long wrong you're always going to

have people who take that view and I

think is just the range but that's not

the issue to me to me the issue is I

think as Paul was saying um it there can

be five billion people who think that

the death penalty is okay and they're

going to lose if there are a few

committed people who are there to make

sure that these people we want to just

go out and kill and now properly

represented and so to go back to parole

the library's probably still watching um

you know if we have a small group of

people which includes the 32 people that

reprieve it includes Georgia by the way

you passed so don't think you can escape

this if there's a small group of

committed people who are committed to

the idea of doing justice then we make

sure justice is done I think that links

into something that and 'man Schiele

just asked was about how can the public

help the fight against the death penalty

or is it purely a legal fight oh god now

it's not a legal fight at all the death

penalty is about power um there is no

moment in life I think when someone is

quite so powerless is when the whole

government just wants to strap you in

and murder you I mean whatever happens

and obviously there are dreadful things

that happen when an individual does that

but when the government does it the

imbalance is is far greater and so it's

about power and it's about redressing

that power and the law does it in one

way but we can all do it in different

ways and so for example it doesn't

matter who you are you've got a talent

that we can use or you can use in order

to achieve just as Paul does it by

making films you can write about it but

there are there are other projects I'm

in the middle

one right now which I'm very excited

about which is about art and I was just

talking at a school yesterday morning

where what we're trying to do is we've

got these guys in Guantanamo and you

know Guantanamo is the same as the death

penalty everyone in Guantanamo faced the

death penalty to begin with um and you

know everyone's forgotten about them and

we need to get them justice and so we

had a bunch of paintings that are

prisoners in Guantanamo had made which

got censored because they were about

being tortured then obviously the US

authorities didn't want pictures of

torture coming up so instead what we did

was I wrote detailed descriptions along

with Shelby in our office and we got the

detailed descriptions out and now we

want artists to reproduce those pictures

in whatever way they like and these

could be famous and artists I hope will

have refuted them but it can be other

people in school too and then you know

we'll have exhibitions and we'll get

people to confront in very real terms

what sort of ghastly torture has been

done to the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay

and there it's going to be artists and

there's any talent at all even be it

writing to people in prison who have no

friends writing to people is very

powerful I think Paul will agree with me

that when I say that the charities that

have been established where people

simply become pen friends to folk on

death row have been amongst the most

positive are results of 14 days in the

name that's really great

um so I'm just looking through some

other questions that people have put in

and just so people on the live chat know

we're about

there's about a 30 second delay from

when you put questions in the chat to

when we get them and so if you think

we're not getting to your questions fast

enough that that would be why and so

kind of a question for you both like how

do you stay optimistic after kind of all

that you've personally seen and wrestled

with and challenged Paul you go first

um I think you know because being

involved in an organization like

we're which is a fantastic team where

there is real tangible results of the

team world getting people go often

instant off death row right around the

world is isn't incredibly incredibly

rewarding and and and and therefore

expose you or not not just for the

people who work and reprieve and collide

fantastic work but also sort of to make

people at the small company I run to

make films where you're trying to

persuade broadcasters to put a demanding

part of their international money to you

know unlock stories that haven't been

told before about people in dire

situations rigid which doesn't happen as

often as you used to when I made

fourteen days in May there were there

was much more money available in those

days to tell stories of disenfranchised

people around the world in a way that

just doesn't happen now we're we're

obsessed with ratings and reality shows

and you know it's a great shame beauty

of repeating 14 days of neighbors you

know it's it's kind of already mentioned

we're going back to another big film

with him about a man that should not be

in prison has been in prison for 24

years so if I goes I'm ready

in terms of staying positive um I think

that you just have to look at what we

end up doing to be positive yeah I've

lost six of my guys over the years and

that's awful and they're going to watch

them get killed but we've won hundreds

we went 98 percent of the cases we do

and that win is different in some cases

I'm and I'm glad to say an awful lot of

people work free who are innocent and

then there are some people who we get

off death row who should be out of

prison so it's not always sort of when

you'd really like but my goodness when

you think about the different tasks out

there I just don't understand people who

want to spend every day working on some

corporate law firm thing where you know

they're representing some corporation

that's got plenty of money already

whereas in our situation we're

representing people who are in such dire

straits and we win

so often and we get to take their lives

and give it back to them and you know

that's amazing so I don't think you have

to be a delusional optimist to think

that that that's fantastic and people

today the nattering nabobs of negativity

today who say that we're in such bad

shape when we're dealing with Donald

Trump and so forth oh come on you know

compared today with nineteen thirty nine

to forty five or compare it to the time

that the Americans wanted to blow up the

entire world with nuclear weapons if the

Russians didn't I mean we are so much

better off with human rights now it's

not to say that we don't have to fight

day in day out to preserve them against

some of the lunatics who want to take

them away but ah you know we can do that

we have we have tremendous influence and

power to do that so no I don't think I

have to sit around being all sad and

long face this is with some notable

exceptions Clyde China Iran well those

people though they've been there forever

haven't they and you know they've been

the Chinese haven't exactly been tearing

Paragons of virtue for the last many

years so it hasn't got any worse I think

China in some ways getting better

they're talking about abolishing the

death penalty for goodness sake now

they're not going to do that and

repressive countries and not to do the

right thing if we don't stand up to them

and if we don't force our own government

for example to stop cow telling to Saudi

Arabia and all these dreadful regimes so

yeah we've got lots of work ahead of us

but but I think that in my lifetime my

god I do the thirty years I've done this

um

I look at the number of wonderful

positive things even if it's just being

there to help someone's dignity being

maintained through an incredibly

undignified process um you know that's a

wonderful thing to be able to do - I'm

just related to that I think you you

partially answered on it but you could

maybe expand a little bit more and onna

Clark was asking in chat um how

President Trump has been a strong

supporter of the death penalty and

has been consistent in his approach how

do you see the impact to that and what

his possible huge policies on capital

punishment and how that could affect the

USA and the work that you do well lots

of people think is a bit rude to talk

about president from psychological

issues but I'm going to tell you I think

the man's mad um look he is a dreadful

person to give that sort of power to but

in many ways is the best thing that's

ever happened to human right there are

people who suffer horribly under the

jackboot of the Trump administration let

that not be denied but at the same time

for the last eight years we had

President Obama in office and I voted

for Obama and he tried to be a decent

person but he did awful things and take

just one example he he said he was going

to close Guantanamo he didn't and

instead he substituted detention without

trial with assassination of people

around the world people don't seem to

know that every Tuesday in the White

House he instituted terror Tuesday where

they would had a little PowerPoint

display about who we're going to murder

this week and they do the sort of yay or

nay like a Roman Emperor so Obama was

ghastly but people wouldn't listen today

Trump is ghastly he's worse but people

will listen and as a result we're

getting traction on issues of human

rights that we haven't had for the last

eight years and I think in a bizarre way

that's going to help us do more for the

cause of human rights over the next four

years than we've been able to do in the

Obama administration and so one people

as well and for people who do want to

make films and make art about difficult

subjects like this like in kind of

touching about on a little bit about

what you were talking about earlier

and in the kind of current climate for

making films like what's the best way

for people who are interested in that

kind of work to go about making film on

subjects like this that really matter

luckily as we made a film 30 years ago

technology is as much improved and got

much lighter and much cheaper so it's

very it's much easier now for

the impassioned filmmaker who doesn't

believe in the death penalty I believe

in human rights too with quite

inexpensive gear to make a film about

the case of injustice or a human rights

abuse in a way that years ago we would

have to make the full crew

you know cameraman without a courtesan

and variants ending with a very

expensive way of working but the digital

revolution has made as men meant a lot

more people being young filmmakers can

be enfranchised to make films in quite

cheaply and many of those films of

course as we all know are turning up at

festivals and on a television or all

over the world so it's quite see it is

quite a the digital revolution has been

fantastic for renting or lengthening

expanding the breadth of human rights

abuses to be thankful to go to a wider

audience so that's what I mean watch the

question better well encourage people to

do - it's not difficult these days - to

be able to get a camera and a recorder

and go out and make the films that you

want to me but the other thing Georgia

let me let me but in that there are two

other things they can do first they can

go do an internship with Paul at Wilde I

think they should definitely do that and

then you know work with them for the

next 30 years but then the second thing

is they can come and work with us some

in you Georgia are a good example of

someone who patronizes me all the time

because I'm old and totally

technologically useless mom and Georgia

just if I may boast about her on camera

here for a bit you're probably censor

and cut me off in a minute but is

introducing new ways that we can reach

broader audiences which is fantastic and

and what I was saying earlier about

advocacy is not about standing up in

court all the time I love doing that's

great fun it's interesting but you can

do the same thing by working with an

organization like reprieve and I'll say

that I don't think there are many that

do it quite as well as some of the

people in our office

I'm bet to come and and use the the new

forms of media to reach audiences that

we could never reach before just to give

you one example you know instead of

publishing things the old-fashioned way

where you had to get some newspaper to

publish it and they edited all the good

phrases out and made you sound much less

eloquent well you can do today is where

you can do that we can do it both in

writing but also on so on film and then

we can tweet it around through all the

friends we have who reach millions and

millions of people and we can cut out

old-fashioned media if we want to you

know we can work with them if they're

going to do good stuff has pulled out

that we can go we can go round them if

we have to and we can only do that if

you come and work with reprieve and do

exactly as Georgia tells you and so will

Jones on Facebook just asked and how

close do you think we are to an end to

the death penalty in the USA well we're

two thousand eight hundred and

twenty-two people away as of tonight

last night they killed someone in

Georgia where I spent many years of my

life so yeah we're winning that battle

but the problem is that you know we're

winning it too slowly for the

individuals I mean right now I think

we're so much closer the executions have

come down from ninety nine a few years

ago to twenty last year and I think that

we at reprieve as can have contributed a

lot to make that happen but there are

still thousands of people if they were

to execute twenty people a year until

they clear death row that would be 200

now there be 100 years so you know we

can't ever be smug until it's until it's

abolished and it's only going to be

abolished by concerted efforts on many

many fronts yeah we can abolish it

state-by-state yeah we can try to

persuade the supreme court yeah we can

hope that pharmaceutical companies as

they have recently stand up for their

own beliefs and try to prevent the drugs

from being used in executions and so on

and so forth but it is a line-by-line

person-by-person battle and we can't

ever look at this as

structure that somehow going to crumble

we got to look at it as individuals that

we have to represent I am just going

through some more questions now so

they're quite a few people talking about

and what other resources if they want to

learn more about the death penalty

what books and websites and things that

you maybe it's a good question possibly

for you pool because sometimes when we

work in the field it can be a little we

can get a little bit too dug in is there

anything that you found useful for

people who aren't lawyers and who want

to learn a little bit more about the

death penalty apart from obviously

watching 14 days and they oh crikey

that's it one business we live in a very

sophisticated now social media

orientated society and it's very easy to

find out all sorts of things all sorts

of ways of getting the information you

need to to help in any way you can and

it's one of the frustrating things is

because of because it's now so easy I'm

inundated that my little company with

our human rights ideas from really

passionately young talented people and

very difficult to get those films

commissioned sadly you know the the

avenues to go down so increasingly as we

as we all know like publishing films

that otres want to make about issues of

the day that matter is much easier now

to get those and and put them online so

my my advice is to as I did I used to

make my teams before I started making

West the BBC really poor amateur film

right

but I did it is having that passion then

and following your nose to it's not

difficult these days much use than when

I'm in 14 days maybe try so let me let

me respond to that to there to there are

several things one can say about that

the first thing is I'll tell you what no

one a reprieve ever does which is read

the damn book over it on it and that's

only used to prop up people's odds right

but I mean if

- long time that's one it's got its got

lots of words in it for ya whoops yeah

it's very short for anyway

injustice is about Chris Maharaj and

there are lots of great books out there

which I did in which I don't include

anything I wrote there there are some

things though that you can do you know

one I I sort of mentioned it briefly

before which is to write to someone on

death row I don't think there's any way

that you can get a better experience of

what this is really all about then

dealing with the human beings that are

the victims of it and you know my mother

who's 90 wrote to Tracy Hanson on death

row in Mississippi and you know whatever

your views on the death penalty they're

going to change even if you're against

it when I went to America I was 19 and I

was against the death penalty but then I

met the people involved and boy did that

make a difference and it really shocked

me visiting them I thought you know what

am I going to talk to these guys about

the stock on death row and I'm this

really lucky person who's going to go

off around the world or whatever but I

learned so much from meeting those human

beings and I think writing to them is

tremendously important thing the next

thing you need to do is you need to come

and volunteer a reprieve and then you

know we'll make you do more we'll make

you go to America or Pakistan or

whatever and you know to me that was

life-changing to obviously reprieve

didn't exist when I began there going to

America and trying to work to help the

individuals I learnt so much in ravenna

and you know for example you look at the

British legal system if you're thinking

of going into door and Britain don't

don't even think about it until you

start doing something not in the UFL

through what on earth is that noise in

the background and it arrived entropies

they do seem to they do seem to be some

fantastic noises they're coming yes it's

a late night and my office it is a late

night in the office become to reprieve

try to get people to be a bit crosser

there and you know work very hard on

okay

you'll you'll become much better

whatever you want to do and so I'm just

going to give a five minute warning to

people in the chat that are we're going

to start winding down so if you've got

any burning questions to ask them now

and a couple of people are asking about

the death penalty not just in the US but

around the world

and what are the kind of what countries

are kind of the top executioner's and

what people can do about the death

penalty and not just in the US but in

other countries as well so you've got

lots of different awful places of course

and you know China is is a in a paragon

of non virtue but um that you've also

got like the the the country with the

biggest death row is Pakistan bizarrely

over 8,000 people on death row there and

it's a classic example of using small

individual human beings as pawns in a

political system where yeah I was

talking to a judge in Pakistan one time

and he told me he thought that 60% of

the people on death row were innocent

for goodness sake um in the quality of

representation there when you have a

court-appointed lawyer they he or she

gets paid the equivalent of 23 dollars

to represent you for goodness knows

three years or however long the case

takes so it's abysmal in a place like

that there's you know obviously Iran is

another shocking place that has a lot of

executions but then there are a lot of

countries that are very susceptible to

change and we're working in various

African countries where the death

penalty has just been accepted as a norm

and in the Middle East and these are

places where you can make a huge

difference because people have never

heard of the idea that actually know

this is really barbaric and achieves

nothing and so you know we're making a

lot of headway in those countries and it

isn't a question of whether the death

penalty is going to die it's a question

of when and you know when the history

books are written they're not going to

say that burning witches at the stake

were a great thing and they're not must

say that torturing people to death in

the electric chair was a great thing it

is so barbaric

that is not true so we're going to win

the battle it's a matter of how long

it's going to take I'm just because I

have the information up here and quite a

few people were asking what who were the

top executing countries last year and it

was um China followed by Iran followed

by Saudi Arabia followed by Iraq

followed by Pakistan followed by Egypt

followed by the United States um so

there are a couple more questions that

I've just come through and one

specifically for you Clive and this is

from DICE Tubbs um who said does wolf

right hello who said does Wilf who for

people who don't know is Clive Sun want

to become a human rights lawyer or does

he want to be something way more cool oh

well who is it viii wants to be way more

than his father well it takes a keen

interest in human rights and indeed as

an American citizen he's very concerned

about um

Donald Trump and he asked me AJ recently

he said I'm not going to go to America

again unless you get a letter from

President Trump promising not to torture

me which pretty shocking thing for an

eight-year-old to say that wolf

currently is not aiming to be a human

rights lawyer he's aiming to be the

world's greatest minecraft redstone

engineer and which may mean die nothing

to you I suspect but I think it'll mean

a lot people are a little bit younger

than you and me that's what he wants to

do now and we'll just have to see I'm

not gonna tempt fate by by saying that I

promise he'll ever be a hedge fund

manager there will had just after Braden

see and a couple of people were asking

about if there is anything that we can

do in countries that are more insular

such as the North Korea's and the

China's and the world about weather

where public opinion is a little bit

harder to get in what we can do about

pressuring our own governments whether

that be the UK or the US and to act and

do more it is an interesting issue

and I've got to say a huge amount of

what we reprieve do is about maneuvering

our people who are our allies or should

be our allies to do more so for example

if we can't get into Saudi Arabia and we

can't then we can do a great deal to

help protect people in Saudi Arabia and

you know a good example with the kids

who are facing execution by crucifixion

for goodness sake for having the

temerity to demonstrate against the

government and you know whatever you

think about the Saudi Arabian government

surely we all have the right to

demonstrate and you know it's entirely

plausible though the Saudi Arabian

government doesn't care what I think and

doesn't care what you think that the

British government cares and we were

able to put a lot of pressure on the

British government to force them to

stand up for the principles that they at

least pretend that they believe in and

by doing that we can force them to raise

these issues in a forceful way which

hopefully will have a positive effect

around the world and the same story of

America or America for whatever reason

even though we execute our own people if

other countries are trying to execute an

American we get terribly upset about

that and so again it is possible to get

the Americans to intervene the u.s. is

intervene quite forcefully in in the

Philippines where president duterte was

another lunatic has got as Kurt has been

encouraging people who assassinate 8,000

people so far in one year of his

presidency and he announced that he

wanted to kill 3 million drug addicts

for goodness sake and you know maybe he

won't listen to me won't listen to the

Pope apparently but but he will listen

if we mobilize enough international

opinion so I think yeah there's a huge

amount we can do to force governments

who should be friendly to do the right

thing in helping to influence even

unfriendly governments and so I'm just

going to finish off with a question for

you both about and about the making of a

film and if you have a particular

memory of working with Edward that you'd

want to share your ahead porn I think

there was not surprisingly the worst

thinking about making the film with the

last 12 hours when every life and his

team had tried so hard to save his life

this final appeal to the governor and is

just we had great hope that wielded that

that he'd be exonerated and it didn't

happen so spending the last hours of

Edward L Johnson's life but it was very

painful because we got no it might been

in for three years as his Appeals the

appeals process took took their course

and so you he'd become a friend may take

chest with him every day in those last

two weeks and he knew a lot about my

family I knew a lot about his and it was

a it was not just a television character

it was someone who become a friend being

killed in a most barbaric way a mallet

didn't do it a man that we were then

they'd approve so that the memory of

that thought was the pain of those lot

fathers oh I have such mixed emotions

about all of this because it was awful

it was dreadful dreadful and uh you know

Edward was young and he was a nice lad

and I really liked him and um it was all

so surreal and in a way that's a real

quality helped him you know I walked

into the gas chamber with Edward and you

know as I walked in there with him and

which was thanks to Don Korat banner the

warden who let me do it and he said as I

gave him a hug in the gas chamber he

said is there something you know that I

don't know and I didn't really

understand what he meant to begin with

and I mumbled something stupid and reply

but obviously what he meant ultimately

was he thought that the fact that we're

all these cameras around meant that

someone was going to call cut and it

wasn't going to happen and he really

really didn't believe it was going to

happen until the very last minute

and in so many ways that was good

because it gave him hope up until the

very last second now you know there's

nothing good that you can say about the

fact that they ultimately killed him um

but what one can say is that I think

through the people who were fighting for

him whether it was you know myself doing

some of the legal work with Rob Macduff

or Paul and his team who were there

clearly as his friends or some of the

guards who were decent human beings you

know I think between everyone it was

possible to make an unbelievably inhuman

event a tiny tiny bit more human and in

a way if that's all we were able to

achieve I think at least that was an

honorable thing to be able to do right I

am just going to draw everything to a

close and people can find out more about

reprieve flag on our website where you

can join our mailing list well you'll

get actions with where you can help

people who are currently on death row

and you can donate to help fund our work

and you can follow us on twitter at

reprieve and you can follow us on

facebook by searching for a brief and

just keep up to date on everything on

our website so there have been lots and

lots of you following and asking some

really good questions and having really

good and lovely and civilized

conversations and and live chat so thank

you for that and thank you

Clive and Paul to your time as well I'm

so much we're just calling to an end so

thank you very much for everybody who

has sat and sat with us for the past two

hours um I hope you all have a really

nice evening

um so we're just pulling to stop