All language subtitles for fourteen days in may [EN]

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but to date weather
scans I'm the new

KGB FM stereo 95.3
serving truth can

meet a lot more head
elevated we durdle

area

Jeff Boselli was at the State

Penitentiary at Parchman
today and filed

the story a death row
inmate at Parchman

is scheduled to die
again Cambridge to

lease the minerals
junkies convicted of

the 1979 shouldn't yet
and warm-up shows

partial JT strategy
on Sanders journeys

and the American Civil
Liberties Union

say they've got a
strategy to save the

inmate relates to
the faith of planes

and the American Civil
Liberties day go

to hell man go to head
now get this news

ride I don't need that Mouse

it was quite easy
what we like to do

what we gonna do all
right what are we

I'm talking by statue
don't get it clean

this time ain't let but again

this film is about
the death penalty in

the state of Mississippi
and the effect

it has on the staff
and inmates as time

runs out for 126
year-old man Edward o

Johnson Johnson has
been appealing

against his sentence
for eight years in

the United States courts he was

convicted in 1979 of killing a

Mississippi town marshal and the

attempted rape of a
60 year old one he

has spent the last
eight years on this

death row and has
always professed his

innocence I say we'll
meet next Friday

the only thing that
might cancel that is

if he receives a
stay of execution

between now then so
at this point in

time the Attorney
General's Office still

feels very much like
the execution will

be a go all y'all
know you know that

could change right
up to midnight the

20th I got one last
thing to say and I'm

gonna try to start
getting ready to get

out of here I will
not tolerate one

off-color remark
by anybody on this

staff about the
execution and just

because I don't have
to look forward to

doing my job in this
kind of situation

doesn't mean that I
can't be tolerant of

others who perhaps
look forward a little

more eagerly to doing
it but they can

look forward to it
and still do it in a

professional manner
and I assure you

I've never been more
serious about a

threat that I've
made since I've been

here if I hear
anything that I don't

like from staff of
this institution they

are going to answer
to me directly and

personally I'm sure
I'll be stuck with

an action later
but the personnel

department will have
to clean it up and

that's a promising
option I'll get rid

of

Satya this boy's
family did not murder

this police officer
this boy's family

did not ask for their
son to be in this

situation they didn't
raise him to be in

this particular and
I've done some

checking and looking
into records and

stuff as a matter of
curiosity this guy

iddin from some family
of bozos you know

this guy represents
the situation that

could happen to anybody
you know you've

got some heartbroken
parents that spent

seven years trying
to figure out what

the hell went wrong
we don't execute

rapists and armed
robbers anymore and so

when we do execute
people we execute

people that situationally
anybody could

find themselves in
the same shoes you

get a bad mixture
of booze and bad

character or dope
and booze and poor

judgment and my
son your son your

daughter could end
up on death row and

by god that doesn't
make me bad that

does not make me bad
as a parent and

that means that that
family is entitled

to a modicum of
respect from this

department in this
institution I'm going

to have it and I'll
tell you why I'm so

adamant about it
because I'm concerned

about some of the
kind of stuff that I

hear rumblin wise
about people being

upset about not being
involved and this

that another thing
it's like I said to

hit the darn hole
cut and a couple of

others of you last
night I worry about

people who are eager
to stand in line to

methodically strap
somebody into a chair

and kill

lemme talk why any
kids that's good I

think I can get the boy

bet ya wondered it

Oh

all right

last time I was out
here talking with

you I asked you whether
or not if this

thing up precedes
to the negative

conclusion whether you learn any

medication on the last
thing I asked you

to think about that what are you

thinking

well I'm not gonna
ask you about it

anymore especially
since your lawyers

hope not not to converse with me

anything else on you man

I guess it's gonna
be last time you're

not talking a lot
they still the date

for me for May 20
to be executed if I

don't get no relief
from my review from

the United States
Supreme Court I'll be

executed sometime I'm depressed

oh I think about your
funny thing is I

think about a future

now that might seem
kind of crazy I

would future could
I pop the hell and

knowing that my
supposed to be executed

next two weeks

I can't plan on foods
but thanks about a

future I'll think
about my past the

thing I used to do
to people I know

people who care about
academia I think

of all that

okay

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at the scene of the
crime where Johnson

allegedly robbed a 60
year old woman and

killed a local town
marshal an old Buick

car was seen because
Johnson owned a

Buick he was arrested
with others and

put in front of an
identity parade the

woman who was robbed
and nearly raped

had known Edward
Johnson most of his

life she saw me she told the

investigator that she
knew me and know

that I wasn't alone
did I broken her

home because she told
me what she told

me I wasn't she said
though the person

go here was a bad lad
but maybe a little

heavier and had a
full bear the dead

time out I don't
have no beer in the

we're never deadly let me go

they picked up again
yesterday as in

question they asked me

to go and they kept
badging about the

gun a gun

that didn't work so
they asked me would

I be willing to take a lot of

temperatures I got
told him you know I

ain't did that yeah I
take so I treat it

you know gave him
permission you take a

lie detector so that
mean they had to

take me to Jackson
and wait to Jackson

they pull over they
told me you're gonna

tell this off but
we want to hear are

you ain't going

he said nigga all we
have to say you did

she jumped out the car and ran

and you know Dan I
didn't know worth the

time I'm 18 you
inside the ruin with

nobody round to say
anything in my

behalf I mean you
know I miss all sunny

in late I don't know
nobody in this era

nobody's behind me father

ain't none of my realtor
with me I got a

sheriff and investigated
with me and

they talking crazy

they both white and
I'm black in the

backseat in Mississippi
dead on side of

the rule and they
done told me this I

don't know what to do
it was a choice of

you may say telling
them anything I'll

go ahead and head
them but did you know

do what they said
they were gonna do

so what they did
in turn on a tape

recorder and he
went over the whole

incident in their own
words and made me

repeat it into the table all the

officers returned
with Johnson to the

Sheriff's Department
using the tape

recording made on
the side of the

freeway they write
out a confession and

asked Johnson to sign it

all they ask where
is hastened and I

don't know what to
see he see the word

babble here don't
really do sign so I

signed it wife basically
called he told

me to sign and I was
scared you know I

don't know but they
got me by myself

nobody knows where
I'm at you know the

last time did my
relatives enter by the

New World was it was
I was supposed to

be on the way to
Jackson's of this one

he thought upset he was

didn't watch the room

really I didn't know
you know I didn't I

didn't know no rights
we decided you

know state no Biden
remineralize my

lawyers tried to
attack the confessions

you know to how it
was obtained they

didn't want her then
all they want to do

was look we got it
and that's all that

counts

he's guilty I was
guilty before I was

convicted and get it
before I even win

the trial you know
the main point was

that white a white
man was killed and

they have black man
accused of doing it

and they said he done
it and that was it

okay

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but what you do with
the gas pass now

I'll glue to that
pickup out there and

also banks

Don ready for sauna

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hey we're ready

Oh

ready

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I've been wrong

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last night Oh officer
came down he told

his data they was
conducting some kind

of test I stand for
the gas team I

gather the girls he
was trying that's

enough

but do you see it dad

you know you know he
they trying it out

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not only grip me
in my heart but he

gripped everybody
else because it's the

thought you know
they just already

assuming they're gonna kill me

[Music]

you could hear the
same sound almost

identical same smear
they executed as me

it's a sound a smell
so like almonds

senator I saw it
my appeals don't

succeed they're
rejected only 12 days

in fact you want to
use it not only me

they let them say
what point they have

two faces

do you personally
believe in the death

no I guess the best
way to answer that

is is to give a
qualified yes and I

don't believe in it
as a deterrent to

crime because

statistically I
don't think you can

prove or disprove
whether it's really

effective as a deterrent or not

beautiful here I think
the death penalty

represents nothing more than the

ultimate punishment
okay the most

heinous crimes the
society feels have to

be dealt with in final fashion I

certainly have no
trouble believing it

for child killers
for people who like

this young man murder
the police officer

I'll have to admit
20 years ago I felt

pretty strongly
opposed to the death

penalty but then I
was I was just back

from Vietnam and was
just beginning a

career in Corrections
and I think I

thought that after
what I'd seen and

participated in in
Vietnam there had to

be a better way to
do things other than

only killing no matter
what the purpose

was but 20 years in
Corrections has a

way of influencing
your outlook on

things I think
there has to be an

ultimate penalty

take this simply gum
I'm gonna come on

around I'll meet you
in the other side

that every we'll
head and let you

through there and I'll
come meet you the

other side

I'll even take the
hint us all here and

picking us off here
put in the front

themselves kind of
hard for you sit down

like that

it may never get to
xx God may intervene

before the 20th
ever gets here he's

scripture talks about
him working in

mysterious ways and
yeah I may never get

you a make it here
and you may have to

face it but I know
the people what

you're saying is
it the frustration

getting is for tomorrow
and getting down

again Binda but all
just without that

copy oh it's all in
the hands his is

just you no doubt
cloudy in the town but

you know you put
your trust and the

whole hearted and God
see he raised all

that down here and
give you feeling the

you know you're relaxed
you just don't

have nowhere

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dude

now I don't believe
it really it's all

something in you it
couldn't have come

without sunk in I
probably be then run

my head through walls
you know what I'm

saying but I look
at it like this ten

days have I ever
been this close to

death before I guess
I get afraid of

time

yeah every time I
heard Oh squeak I'm

looking you know one
no I banging out

there by the gate shame
myself they been

doing me how to look at it

gazing he might sit

see thing about has
been there for the

seven years I've been
there is nothing

new to look at nothing
new to think it

I'm sort of straddle
offense was the

death penalty is
consumed I am is some

time I'm not so really
how I'm sort of

strap offense something
need to be done

for some of the
crimes that's gonna

commit it I'm sure
that the health pill

is this I think if a
person can't give a

lot I should be able
to take I don't

know so I got mixed
feelings about it

regardless of whether
mr. Gaston legal

injection under the
electric chair

regardless of the
method you know it's

good you're here to
take a life or so

Riddick whatever
nothing that you

doesn't mean to make
any different you

know who necessary one
thing come of all

of us here is that
we have no money and

we cannot who couldn't
afford quality

representation the
type representation

that would have
made a fair trial

it takes money to
fight the state the

state has all the
resources in the world

when they're trying
to see a Deltan

sense that they they
have all results

have been disclosed
only nine times I'm

10 will stuck with
an attorney who

doesn't even have a
moral conviction

that the death penalty is wrong

seeing what he does
is functioning like

a sister to the DA
you know the terms

represent most pool
and ditches all

state plan attorneys

the same when you look at me you

consider the economic
factor there not

know the terms they do represent

individuals in this
situation and to

trial level they're
not going against

the state the state payer ceremi

statistically in the
united states at

the moment the
figures show that if

you're poor and black
you're more likely

to end up on death row
right actually in

Mississippi about
67 percent of the

entire incarcerated
population is poor

undereducated black males so yes

logistical II the
poor undereducated

in order is probably
more likely to

receive a death
sentence based on the

fact that they do not
have funds to hire

the best and the most
appropriate legal

assistance

the system is unjust
but the system and

in the fact that six
thirty percent of

the people in prison
up in Mississippi

all minorities is just
as unjust as that

a percentage of blacks
are minorities in

the intestines either
way we'll talk

about an unjust
situation that's based

on the amount of
funds that you have

failed while the lack
of on yeah so no

the system is not perfect

sure I want this
rule and everyone

expects me to see
our own difference

but I'm saying how
wrong a different is

because I see how
wrong meters I'm

experiencing it society
as an experience

it because it has a
touch society and

new and the emotional or in the

individual sense

do you believe in the
death penalty for

some crimes at one
point I did at one

point but seeing how
the death penalty

is being applied no I don't

the majority of
Americans would think

that a lot of people
here on this death

row have committed a
lot of the pool and

crimes murder that's
and that you should

be here

the same to most people

most people only hear
what authority is

telling them as I
say if you're not

aware of effects
they're not aware of

pricing

I feel it I feel it
being misled but

I've been in a
situation for 11 years

initially I was
charged with capital

murder and convicted
19 in November 1976

how have you cope
with that 11 years

it's a long time

there's a long time

I'm guessing a my
belief in God has

something to do with it

and I've asked
myself that question

before - you know I
might as a black

person

it's a citizen of
this country you know

my people always had to endure

oppression and
repression and just of

this kind in my
source is part of my

experience you know
it's it's in mine my

consciousness you
know to Co not feel

the same way about
earlier that you know

I shared experience
what he's going

through

I'm sharing it with
him it's like a

logical taught you this

because that's what
it is you know up to

the part where they
take him out and

executed we know is
torture I mean we

all go through this
we all went through

this with him everybody
here but it's

bad a death row
inmate at Parchman is

scheduled to die in
the gas chamber in

less than two weeks
Edward Earl Johnson

was convicted of the
1979 shooting death

of Wallace Bros Marshall JT tres

Johnson's attorneys
and the American

Civil Liberties Union
say they've got a

strategy to save the inmate from

execution on the
20th of May they

declined to give the
table to that plan

but this say there are
racial factors to

consider in the Johnson
case they say a

recent study shows
those who killed

whites are more likely
to be sentenced

to death than those
who killed my

Johnson is black
and the victim was

white

here's what's exist
several of our

viewers if they think
jumping should go

to the castien

what do you think
about the case do you

think Johnson should
be executed or not

well I'm totally
against and they'll

penalty under
circumstances I don't

think that a life for
life accomplishes

anything so I don't
think it should be

acute in any rate
whether the person's

natural life do you
think Johnson should

be executed or not

made his money murdered
some morning I

should paint with
during life the

conditions here are
similar to slavery

tax don't think
difference between now

and 1860 is the year
the word gains are

just that you know
that they're there

it's mostly like a
make-work situation

whereas rather than
just sitting idle as

we do to give them
something to do you

know cleaning up around here

cutting grass digging
ditches snows it's

slavery modified and
to today's world no

it's just a big
plantation that's been

changed by the by
the name you don't

still have calling it
a plantation today

they call it a farm
but you know there's

no difference

but we've got here
is the petition for

you on you know going
to the Mississippi

Supreme Court we have
to go there first

for kids you have
to do that there's

absolutely no chance of actually

achieving anything
there because they've

already made up their
minds that they

want to see you go
on 20 but hopefully

we'll be out of there
in a couple of

days so we can go
straight into federal

court and that's where
something's going

to happen I mean
when you're when you

get to read to
this stuff there's

there's some really
serious stuff an

integral knowing the
ineffectiveness

claim would win in
any reasonable case

our problem of course
is the publicity

and the pressure that
people are going

to feel and all this
and in a farewell

you're gonna win
that the world isn't

always I'm fast and
we'll just have to

keep our fingers
crossed keep crying

the facts of the
case those that your

black kid in the
county which has got a

bunch of planned
people and they get

around they get around
shooting Freedom

Riders and let me get
quitted you know

and the fact is that
you're accused of

basically that
attempting to rape a

white woman and killing
a white police

officer those are the
two most painless

things that for a
white person in

Mississippi can
happen the fact that

they miss advisor is
one prong of what

we have to show the
other side you have

to show is that the
result would have

been different
whatever happens we're

going to file in the
federal district

court on Friday
because we can't wait

any longer we're
talking about next

weapon stick for the
date so if we foul

then there are two
options either we'll

get a stay right
away if you believe

everything we've said
and the petition

or he'll think there
are some procedural

bars and we've got
to have a hearing on

this in which case
we'll probably have a

hearing on it Monday
morning and Dawn at

that stage he'll
either give a stay or

not give us a Monday
afternoon the last

two cases we've had
got stayed the day

before the thing yeah
cerimon you know

unfortunately it's a
nasty experience to

get that close to the venue I'm

beginning to feel the pressure

personally a little
bit more than I

thought I were a
week ago or even a

month ago I think
probably that's

increased since I've
talked to this guy

a couple of times

I haven't forgotten
what he's here for

but there's no
question that over a

period of time some
of the some of the

barriers you might
think would be there

forever begin to come
down a little bit

a night I probably
am going to avoid

talking to you Johnson
any more than 1/2

D from here on out
until Tuesday when

I'll probably be
spending a fair amount

of time with me you
saw he's guilty I

think I miss personally
I'm insurer's I

think he can be from
from reading the

record of what
happened the testimony

was pretty clear I
don't I don't have

any difficulty with that are you

expecting a state

I think it's a
possibility but I think

because of the way
things are going that

it could be it could
be rather late in

the game as these
things go I don't

expect to stay if
one comes until

probably Monday at the
earliest and very

possibly not until
Tuesday almost to

Friday

can't get much better
than that except

paper

him up here now we're
gonna have to talk

to them and kind of
just catch up on

what Arrangements he
wants to make you

concerning the
execution of meals and

all that stuff how
has he been behaving

he well the last six
months I've been

over here no problem

how you doing Edward
okay come on all in

the talking

what

sunny he's just
fine our friend he

indicated to me quite
treaty without

being prodded he's
not having any

trouble sleeping he
was aware by hearing

on the news that the
state Supreme Court

turned to stay down
but he's hopeful of

other avenues he
is not wanting for

anything recovered again what

arrangements he
wanted his family

visiting he again
indicated he certainly

realized as time is
getting short but he

remains cautiously
optimistic and in

short he's probably
in better mental

condition tonight

thanks the interesting
thing is of

course that his attorneys
in the motions

they have filed
with court they are

asking the court now to stay his

execution because he
is not seen and the

basis upon which
they have concluded

he's not saying is
that he has to calm

anybody is close to
being executed as he

is should not be
nearly as calm about

the whole thing as
he is so they're

obviously grasping
for straws which

knows understandable
they're doing their

job but it suggests
that they really

just haven't got much
left to deal with

now a convicted
killers last resort

today the state Supreme
Court denied a

request to delay the
execution of Edward

Earl Johnson he's
scheduled to die next

Wednesday the nation's
highest court

previously refused
to hear Johnson's

last direct appeal
his lawyers are

asking the justices
to reconsider the

decision from
Washington could come

Monday Johnson is
on death row for

killing a walnut grove
town marshal in a

way I've been
preparing this for 19

years in a career
preparing for it I

think that um I
understand I'm beginning

to understand and probably will

understand even better after the

execution why strangely
enough over the

years at least in
this country um a

number of wardens who have

large numbers of
execution in the 30s

and 40s when they were prevalent

nonetheless despite
fact they did the

jobs fold the switches
are pushed the

buttons many many times
were nonetheless

very strong opponents
of capitalism they

did the jobs and they
did it frequently

far more frequently
than anybody in my

generation of wardens
would have to do

but nonetheless they
they were opposed

to it and I I have a
feeling that when

this is all over I
don't think I'm going

to suddenly make any
great changes and

become an opponent of
capital punishment

but I think that I'm
going to be able to

better understand the
search for another

way they're just
starting to feel it's

just just now people
are starting to

realize that it's
probably gonna happen

but there's still
people little all the

way up till the last
day even people

that do get executed
sometimes don't

even believe they're going to be

executed til they
get in it but it's

starting to build a
little bit you know

things people are
starting to be a

little quieter you
know the last little

comments are being
kicked around about

it and and sad feelings
are going around

some people maybe
there's a little bit

of fear but it's
just a line and you

just gotta wait in
line until it happens

and you got to watch
all this happening

it's just torture
but then one thing

that has helped me a
great deal I had an

old minister telling
me one time and

reminded me that
we're all under the

death penalty we're
all dying none of us

has a guarantee of
tomorrow the only

difference is these
fellows has a date

set they know that
such-and-such a date

I'm gonna be placed
in the gas chamber

and I'm gonna die

[Music]

as of yesterday the
Attorney General's

Office was of the
opinion that he would

not be granted
relief by the state

Supreme Court they
have also filed a

petition for clemency
with governor it

does not appear that
the governor will

grant relief on that
request although he

has to have a hearing
on it his greatest

hope at this point
in time lives with

the federal district
court in Jackson

judge Barbour who has
handled this case

on previous occasions
there is probably

at least a 50/50 chance
to judge Barbour

and grant a stay of
execution however

there is some discussion
as to how long

the stay will be it
could be six months

it could be two
months it could be a

week it could be a
few days we're going

to proceed on the
assumption that even

if the execution is
stated for xx that

it will not take too
terribly long for

the state of be dissolved
so that we can

continue to be in a state of

preparedness for this
I think probably

unless somebody moves
very quickly today

and I honestly don't
expect that we're

going to come down
to the wire on this

thing the chamber
has been thoroughly

examined by manufacturing
reps and by us

and will be examined
again by us Sunday

and again Tuesday
afternoons I don't

expect any difficulties
but I want you

all to be aware for
those of you have a

role in this thing
however indirect may

be that if there's
an Alf function of

some kind if the
solution and the

cyanide did not mix properly the

execution will be
carried out it's

simply a process
having to clear the

chamber and do it
again obviously I

think everybody
hopes that doesn't

happen but I want
this staff to be

professional we're
going to discuss how

we did what we did and
what we can do to

improve it because
they are going to be

able to execute

here in the next
year and a half two

years this boy's
mother is a part-time

law enforcement official
he comes from a

relatively good family
they are entitled

to some dignity in
terms of the way we

do our jobs now for
those of you who are

in the custody ranks
in particular and

believe me I understand
cyber war in the

uniform - I understand
this man killed a

police officer

that doesn't change
anything if he

killed one of your
best friends on the

guard force we'd
still have to carry

this out in a
responsible fashion we

have to repent and
we have to come to

the knowledge of the
truth we have to

accept Jesus Christ
as our Savior and I

know ever that God
is working from you

I see evidence of
things taking place in

your life that I
know that God's not

left you alone
that he's with you

I'm in the feeling
although like you see

it I still need to be
deep in repentance

my boy and I just had
to wait God work

on me with that I've
seen things in you

that I seen God dealing
and I seek out

bringing you to a place o

repentance but you
don't have anything

to worry about

normal thing you
know it's like I've

told you God knows
you're beginning that

he knows your pian
he knows Edward

Johnson better than
me better than

anybody

God knows you cuz
God created you

defense attorneys for
convicted murderer

Edward Earl Johnson
tried again today to

postpone the execution
of their client

now scheduled for
this coming Wednesday

Governor Bill Elaine
however refused to

make a decision on
granting executive

clemency saying that
was premature as of

this time though it appears the

execution may take
place as scheduled

Jeff Boselli was at the State

Penitentiary at Parchman
today and filed

the story while
his attorneys are

reportedly employing
more radical

tactics to save
their client prison

officials say that
Johnson has all but

resigned himself to
his fate soon though

manly to ask for clemency

you're told in the
dark he wouldn't make

me any decision that
was premature at

this time he was
waiting to how caramel

not appears he didn't
dinner classy I

need a grand sound
nervous waiting in my

sleep

other than that bands
damn you it's a

long way yes it's a
terrible way to know

at that same time I
made this have to

wake up to get last
morning to know

maybe the last maybe
the last minute

maybe dress up no
I just got myself

[Music]

Oh

[Music]

oh yeah

[Music]

[Music]

Oh

[Music]

I've never been able
to be with the one

one time you may say
I haven't contacted

that grid actually
touch them and hold

them and be with them
you know that's a

new experience it's
been through a while

basic through a screen toolbar

always

all these seven years
I've been has been

this is just what
you call this is a

space and privilege you know

it's really Hill

to give me strength

please change

and you can change in

so I'm just praying
it will come on and

maybe we'll be back
home it's on a nail

for time and I know how they get

confession out of
people they the user

got a new technique
they don't beat him

and they have sting
gone one time that

was eliminated so now
they got all the

world a little ways
to get confession

out and we didn't really commit

BitDefender thought
you fright and

you'll say anything
I'm doing somebody

had a gun pointed
into I say anything

myself maybe this would
give me a chance

to have a little life
left it's not fair

you know I don't think
his fans over in

the family he was fed
people outside say

it's not fair it's
not fair the way it

was running the way
it was done but one

person can't do everything

people need help so what else

next week it's gonna
be rough here

because you got black
guy and the most

guys that are here are
black and they go

all feel close they're
gonna get most of

them going to unite
and it's gonna be

rough a lot of them
gonna feel for every

witch it's gonna be
rough for us also

because some of us
been here six years

ten and more and you
got close to him

you know which we
shouldn't be but you

can't help but when
you're working

around some guys
like this this long

period of time and
then to see him

actually have to go
to the gas happy

we shouldn't be that
way but that's the

way it is and we can't
do anything about

it you think you did it

I don't know I gotta
say I don't believe

waiting around me
nope elastic hair

heels I don't believe
she's taking an

innocent man might
be going to his town

possibily I was terrible

yeah

[Music]

depending the officers
feel like you did

I believe your daughter
around here do

but it would you
know you like I say

everybody you know
flax meringue all the

white and black
offered me he's going

tell they don't get
a battle trouble so

you know but that's
terrorism majority

of offices here feel
that it might melt

on it right is he go
has he got bedding

down there right no

[Music]

[Music]

you want to match

[Music]

straighten data

[Music]

how you doing regal

[Music]

[Music]

does travel

[Music]

[Music]

color 14

got everything in one

see you tomorrow

[Music]

simply an astronaut
so if you need okay

all right

[Music]

come on Santa

but you call I guess
24-hour watch say

they move you 72
hour before your

execution is carried
out there's a you

know in case he limit
the people this

one by the cou in

[Music]

he's Exodus to debate

I really been able to
say our heart with

you

good luck

I'm hoping and we're
going to stay in

actually a nice pizza
husband this wing

process

hi Rob

zooom I'm sure

[Music]

say what you say boy
this is your lair

cheese

good back

here I was and don't
hold something

one

come

he was here but he
was back on the back

push on this

and Randy

- like for me we have
to service least

and we stay in service
Apple that we

heard about 12 o'clock

change keep the spirit
he you know proud

change I'm some some
hands little I got

sprained flying
hope your friend or

yourself which I'm
quite sure y'all get

the community behind
you know they

believe in your
innocent and they doing

all they can who
knows it's not them

just not lasting

yeah but they finally
believe yesterday

they finally believe
you know well

really physically
well we're down to

well under 36 hours
and still have no

stay of execution
one more Avenue of

Appeals close this

the US Supreme Court
turned down a

request from inmate
to rehear his

petition that they
denied a week ago so

basically it comes
down to his last

chances are with the
state Supreme Court

and the governor's
office or the federal

district court in Jackson

Wu your hide the Sun
ran away when you

come around you
bring Brian is the

perfect me my sweet
let's go make a

family they

Inga's joy

I can't find the wings
to let you know I

don't have any
personal animosity

towards him he
committed a very very

serious crime more
than a crime of

passion and more
than what somebody

would do if if they
were just caught by

surprise her frightened
in the act of

committing a property
crime and he shot

the man five times but
he's a he's a guy

who's been on death
row almost eight

years and nobody's
ever heard from him

you know he's a
typical death row

prisoner he was like
your service girl

yeah um I don't have
any I don't have

any qualms at all about
about him having

committed to crying no

undoubtedly I think
the legal system has

always worked on the
basis of some some

difference in terms
of what a private

attorney a private
well-paid turn can a

conference for
somebody what a public

defender can Congress
that that's a flaw

in the system but I
don't think I don't

think it has to be a
fatal flaw I think

we have to worry
about is the person

guilty

did he clearly beyond
all reasonable

doubt commit the crime
knew he told me

the coin

six

look now you wanna
call your office okay

[Music]

okay all right

he did admit with
George barber they

haven't here some
of the procedure

things that it wasn't
that appear that

he found and he's in
he's in the Korean

written that he's a client

they're lacking Rosa
he told me call

back about another
hour need let me know

something classics

situation wardens
find themselves you

make choices about
your death row

inmates you know and
doesn't come down

to a case of what
do you feel any

affection or emotion
about a given case

I don't that's not
the situation with

this guy at all but
what happens is last

night for instance
when I went down

there to move him I
had to walk by the

cell of another inmate
who deserves to

be on death row killed
a police officer

cold-blood and has
a prior criminal

record there are others
here on the road

that I'd much prefer
to take to the gas

chamber than iske I
think I have found

myself and work through
that more than

anything else it's not
a case of emotion

or affection for
this kid it's just a

case of season I'm not
saying he doesn't

deserve go but maybe
here I'll be 19th

and lying instead
of first alright

they're the town to execute me

I'm the temple
nothing's cuz I don't

believe it

consider now way a
case to be I don't

see and I don't
believe it for one

minute

and I refuse to break
in a way I can't

do that I refused

it's good enough that
I can be you know

around my family to
over me know and I'm

psyched and stuff
like that and then

they really give me a
good finna give me

more strength and I
get em straight we

draw of each other
know things did I

think about known
contacting seven years

you know I think
about all the other

things I miss you
know like I hope

you've seen to moon
said about three

times and in seven
years I'll get seven

years and haven't
been one time that I

actually got a chance
to go outside and

you look up at the
stars and the moon

you know and it's a
word feeling you

know it even though
I'm chained down but

it's a weird feeling
it be able to look

up see the moon
actually learning stars

up on here's the one
that I can do that

but get a glass

just kidding do you
feel good you feel

almost free even don't know the

circumstances in
a way do you get

I'd like bill again
you know I expect to

get it again

it's spraying just
not just the inmates

here this last before
out of frame view

is also most of the
staff are different

I'm hoping for stay
and of course myself

and the film itself
even two weeks now

they see new it it
don't matter how you

portray a person be
you say dangerous

you see viciously may
fight it to drop

over here that's the
report that's been

given all this time
all these years of

people here but once
you get to know

somebody in a personal
way but you can't

have to be emotionally involved

it's like the gods
they've known me for

seven years

we killed around we
shared things ago

now gets them involved
just like in a

wait with a family
cost they stayed here

actually as much as they are and

we're getting to do some kind of

relationship became
there can't stop day

that can't be stuff

Oh

this is neighbor Johnson yeah

oh yeah

but I know

this time

mmm

okay I'll just wait okay

the field circuit
denied somewhat

claimed it was only
a petition so now

they don't filed in
the fifth circuit

the way now

so you bill takes
three or four hours

just a Brian

meanwhile Edward
Earl Johnson sits on

death row in parchment
scheduled to die

in the gas chamber
at a minute after

midnight Don Cabana
warden of Parchman

and acting corrections
commissioner says

he's spoken with Johnson
every day since

the decision to execute
him was made my

conversations with
him I'm impressed

with the fact that he
he's at peace with

himself and has
accepted the reality of

the situation

Rep Cabana says the
final stages of

preparation at the
prison have already

begun for this afternoon
Cabana says an

institutional emergency
situation will

be declared during
which traffic through

the president will
be limited as the

final hours are
counted down earlier

today Judge William
barber denied a

request to stay the
execution John sirs

lawyers have appealed
to the Fifth

Circuit Court of
Appeals the name of

Jesus cross to die

that's good news a motion

here's some salt and
pepper our kitchen

this colony

we do still have an
execution that is

proceeding on schedule
the 5th Circuit

Court of Appeals
has affirmed the

conviction I guess
and denied the

request for stay
of execution from

Edward Earl Johnson
filings have already

taken place with
the United States

Supreme Court the
attorney general's

office advises me
that we may hear from

the US Supreme Court
within an hour I

think it's fair to
say that we do not

expect the US Supreme
Court to issue any

stage in this matter
it will apparently

come down to the
governor's office and

any clemency petitions
he may entertain

I can't conjecture about that my

impression from my
conversations with

governor and the
governor's office the

last two days is
that is not a strong

likelihood either so
we are prepared to

carry out this
execution at 12:01

tomorrow morning or
soon after that time

as possible something
do you think

Edward o Johnson

talk with him on
several occasions and

he has more than one
time told me that

he had did not do
the crime that he's

here for he did not
assault the lady

that supposedly
assaulted and I believe

his attorney says
there several good

points that should
be looked at but yet

so far in the game
until nobody would

hero which doesn't
make sense at all to

me in society that's
supposed to be

civilized and the
caring society that

cares for those people
that are really

down and out or
downtrodden certain the

Earl would be at
this point so you're

saying in your

an innocent man's going
to go to the gas

chambers I believe there

yes well this morning
we lost in federal

district court not to me

so that was later
than we expected and

to be quite honest
I expected to win

there I really did we
had a hearing last

night everything went
very well and we

had to win the judge
was out to get us

and he really did get
us very badly and

after that I thought
things were pretty

much all over him

then we went to the
Fifth Circuit Court

of Appeals and we
went to the judge's

chambers there and
now they're in

Jackson as I went
into his office to

file the appeal they
looked on the word

processor and he'd
already written the

denial of the appeal
before we'd even

done it however he'd
already written it

he'd already written
it was running out

on the printer before
we'd even filed

the appeal and he
denied this oral

argument however Wesley is that

constitutional well
I mean who knows

what's constitutional
with these people

but it's absolutely
abnormal and it's

thoroughly unfair but
fortunately in an

effort to make things
even worse for us

he really messed up
I mean he hadn't

considered it properly
and you've really

screwed up consequently
he gave us

another issue for the
Supreme Court when

we were beginning to
run out of issues

and we went to the
Supreme Court at

about eight o'clock
this evening four

hours before the
ladies do I'm pretty

sure we've got four
judges there we

always have two and
we may have two more

we need one more
probably to get us

staying and we've got
a real good issues

on

you know you can't be
confident on these

things but there's
something going on

ahead we'll see

I think we've go now
about three hours

left that's not that
abnormal I mean

these things normally
go down to the

wire you're losing
the second good the

trouble is they've
tried this curse took

that man everyone's
out to get ed

fidelity man we're
gonna be lucky

there's also the
governor we're gonna be

lucky there forget
that but real sick

they'll say well hey

you

[Music]

in just about two
hours Edward Earl

Johnson will be in
the gas chamber at

Parchman penitentiary
and unless the

courts or the governor
intervene between

now and then Johnson
will die for the

murder of a Mississippi lawman

[Music]

Johnson's attorneys
are expected to

fight the execution
to the last but

parchment officials
are proceeding his

plan and at 4:00 p.m. today the

penitentiary entered a state of

emergency operation

[Music]

about one hour
before the scheduled

execution Johnson
will be moved from

death row to the last
night room as its

referred to where he
will be held until

taken to the gas
chamber for execution

scheduled for one
minute after midnight

in event that there
may be a stain and

the Attorney General's
Office works to

dissolve that study
the state has until

midnight before the 21st for the

execution according
to state laws will

include a
representative from the

sheriff's office -
ministers - positions

and five media
representatives mm embers

of two members of
the victim's family

may be present request is yet

[Music]

it seems very very bad
still not without

hope I still just
can't give up but it

looks real bad everyone
you know this is

good film you don't
like I feel just you

know as much a part
of him as a person

could be all I have
the game as close as

a brother to him you
know they've kept

him here seven years
you know killing

him daily not even
finally killing

everyone here is dying tonight

part of them no life

I can never be the
same after this I

know be safe you know

we're supposed to be
vicious and cruel

but this is this
goes beyond anything

anyone could ever do

[Music]

cold Kenny and see
what happens with the

governor right all
right having let us

know as soon as we yeah bye-bye

store seven - yes yeah

yeah

oh yeah I took them
seven you haven't

heard anything from
the government

in tonight

stay over there

and it was time son
to move to the

isolation cell okay

kids don't

[Music]

all right Sam

okay

I need

Oh chaplains go
needle back through

their sick Stars friends here

and get through this
together did you

eat any of that shrimp
they brought you

this evening

oh yeah you said you
never tried shrimp

before is that right
hallelujah I'm with

you he's like an aunt
in you he saw me

with you beside him
unto you Sally with

you he's onto you

with you I mean sleeping

that is going

straight

well

I'm not going to devil
it up hopefully

when we take you
inside that I have to

attach some around
forget what you

column doohickeys that go to the

electrocardiograph
machine and he may

need to move that will
happen at about a

quarter till at that
point in time we

have about five minutes
before we remove

you from the isolation
cell okay we've

got tits

I've got about eleven
thirty three about

twelve minutes until
the medic comes in

about 17 minutes
until we remove from

the okay

all right we're done
we would like to

leave to leave you
with people here okay

it was time to rest
today one thing we

won't say about it

our hearts are with
you we'll still

prank me

take it easy

ladies and gentlemen

at 12 o 6 a.m. Wednesday
May 20th Edward

Earl Johnson was
executed in the lethal

gas chamber here at
Mississippi State

Penitentiary in
conformance with the

sentence of the
Circuit Court of Lee

County I'll be glad
to entertain any

questions you may have

every last thing yes
he did he indicated

his innocence and
that he regretted the

situation but that
he bore no ill-will

towards anyone

and he was thankful that

the process was
coming to a close for

himself and his family

and stated

that he was not guilty

how long between the
crystals hit the

tray and the time
the monitor showed

cardiac arrest the
time between the time

the crystals between
time the gas struck

his faith and the
time cardiac arrest

was pronounced was
approximately 12

minutes he was
unconscious in less than

a minute if we could
let's hear from a

lawyer injury everyone
has been very

calm and collected
about this well let

me tell you I'm not
calm and I'm not

collected I just came
from talking with

the family and I asked
you rhetorically

what I was meant to
say what I was meant

to say why happen I
stayed with Edward

Johnson I had a
privilege to stay with

Edward Johnson for the
last hours of his

life and I can say
he was a lot more

calm than I was and
I can only say this

when the family asked
me why all I could

say was it's a sick
world it's a sick

world

thank you

you

hello da all right

yes very loudly tobert
told we're just

seeing a big purple
th oh no you're a

charming face you
know why that is

No

there is there is yes
god yeah you a a

you a skype virgin -
okay right so you

are now live I've
already got some we

had some really
brilliant questions

lined up I don't know
if you guys want

to introduce yourselves
fast now you can

introduce this or
I'll say I'm fly than

the other chaps Paul
obviously hopefully

you will all know that I'm Clive

Stafford Smith is the founder of

reprieve and Paul
directed the film that

you've all just watched
fourteen days in

May and I'm going to
start off with some

questions that people
put in while they

are watching and some
of them addressed

to you both and some
of them addressed

to either Clive or
Paul individually and

I think I'll just
start with one for

Clive and that mid-chest
and he said it

client he said Clive
you were young men

when you're good can
you hear me you're

right you went for a
minute but if you

start again will be
fun and Mitch asked

clover you're a young
man when this film

was made what effect
did it have on you

personally well I
do think about that

because thirty years
on I was the same

age as Edward so we
were both 27 at the

time and I'm now 57
and Edward is not

and you know that to
me is the greatest

tragedy of this whole
thing arm there

was a an immense I
mean it was a tragic

thing altogether as
ghastly and I look

at it and I think if
I knew then what I

know now he'd be
alive but I do also

look at it that I
am so grateful that

particularly through
the role did and

the film he made that
something positive

was able to come of
it and there has

been a tremendous
amount of positivity

in the sense of a
bunch of young people

who have helped us
in the fight I guess

that's uh that's
really good I'm that

kind of slides in a
bit too a question

that someone else asked in

and some were saying
that in kind of in

light of recent films
I've been made

about the American
justice system it

kind of seems as bleak as ever

and what progresses
are made and what do

you think is the
positive story that's

come out of kind of
the American justice

system over the past
30 years or other

no positives to report
I think there's

an awful lot of
negative to report and

the negative includes
the fact that we

still don't realize
what the problem is

and you know the
probably of the death

penalty is a ghastly
thing and we're

gradually winning
that battle that the

reason Edward Johnson
got executed

wasn't because of the
death penalty it

was because of rotten
legal system the

results in a lot
of people getting

caught up who had
nothing to do with the

crime and you know
look I was just

spending the evening
working on the case

of Chris Maharaj who
was sentenced to

death 30 years ago
and he's still in

prison and he's as
innocent as the day

is long I'm proud to
say that Paul over

there is going to
make the documentary

that is going to help
get Chris free -

and you know this
time Chris won't die

at least I hope not
he's 7018 might die

of old age but but
we don't recognize

all the problems in
the legal system so

we're not beginning
to solve them and so

quite a few people
had some questions

specifically specifically
for Paul and

so I'm Sofia Begum
asked kind of how

difficult was this
film to make into

filmmaking on special and when

definitely we fought
back in the United

States they wrote 37
states that pointed

back all of them
except Mississippi

Mississippi said you
can't come and make

film on our death row
buddy can make a

film about canoodle
visits so I went to

Mississippi prison
obviously you can't

film could Google
visit so I persuaded

that the vise persuaded
the government

prison to make a film
why I discovered

he was a little I
discovered that he

didn't believe in the
death penalty and

he persuaded his
board to let me in I

wanted to make a film
about the morality

of the death penalty
and when it came to

or Edwin L Johnson
and then involving

climb to represent him
he turned up this

is the one person on
death row who all

the staff from the
from the from the the

vicar to the psychiatrist have

discovered the man
that round arrow said

this is the guy that
didn't do it it

became a very difficult
filmed my team

and I to make because
it seemed that

everyone no one
wanted to kill this

person but they were
going a lot the

system you know I've
got another one for

you Paul as well um
uh where are we so

Alex Jagger asked and
like what did you

think of the chief
like in the film he

seems to have quite
a nuance for you of

the death penalty uh
the government the

prison I imagine living
Don Cabana um it

was extraordinary
he was the man that

took the risk to let
medicine and make

make a film onyx
in very different

circumstances and
what was he was a man

that thought said to
me privately in the

middle of making the
film he probably

didn't do it and had
to go at all and do

his awful job
professionally he made

sure that the family
were treated with

extraordinary SPECT
so my my empathy

went went up with him
after that I will

probably tell you but
but briefly after

that he was so upset
with a man that he

thought was innocent
dying that he was

responsible part of
the machinery that

executed that man
he he resigned and

left the prison
system and became a

lecturer and he
definitely lecturer in

in in what the state
universities yeah

don't let me speak
to let thrown it

beyond was a
remarkable guy and on

several levels I've
sad to say attended

the executions of six
of my clients and

you know well it's
always ghastly the

way that John behaved
letting us be with

the family until the
very last minute

and letting us all
be in the same room

was very human and
very humane and you

know in other places
in Georgia for

example they wouldn't
let us be with the

I was representing you
know we were only

allowed to talk on
to him on the phone

from some other room

the other thing about
Don was he did

become a vehement
opponent of the death

penalty I I started
refusing to call him

as an expert witness
because I called

him twice and he had
a heart attack each

time and you know I
just didn't want to

do that to him and
he did sadly not die

of that in the end
but in the meantime

he was a wonderful
advocate because

unlike me you know
some lefty person

who's always been
opposed to the death

penalty to have him speak

about being the person
responsible for X

actually killing
someone and you know

being the person who
thought it was okay

at one point but it
changed his mind was

incredibly powerful
we did a thing on

channel 4 one time
after dark where he

and I were on one
team if you will

against the

doctor death who
was the doctor who

would diagnose people
and their mental

illnesses by sitting them in the

electric chair in Texas
and interviewing

them there and between
us Don and I were

doing this program and
we wore this poor

guy down by making
him drink too much I

think on television
and up until he

finally said threw
his hands up and

agreed to be against
the death penalty

Don was just a great
advocate and a

really good friend
he was a good guy um

so Elijah who's
watching this who's 13

and he's been told
to watch this by his

English teacher he's
one of a few people

in the chat who seem
to have been told

by a very nice English
teacher to come

and watch this stream
and he wants to

know about how do
you think the death

penalty affects the
younger generation

and their views on
crime and punishment

well Elijah let me
tell you first the

way it's going to
affect you mate

is you need to come
and work it reprieve

and let us let us
exploit you and all

your good work for
the next 50 years

look I think the death penalty

highlights a lot of
the problems in the

legal system that
impact a lot of other

people you know again
if you think of

Chris Marker odd he's
no longer on death

row

but he's 78 and he's
going to die in

prison and when
his and I did his

resentencing trial
where his sentence

was changed from death to life

imprisonment and
it's still a death

sentence he's still
going to die in that

prison he's just
going to die a lot

slower so I think in
one way the death

penalty is a positive
thing I know it

sounds bizarre but
it it's something

that makes people
pay attention to

things the otherwise
might not pay

attention to you know
you hear someone

serving life and
people think oh that's

a double you know
it's not it's awful

what we do to people
in prison generally

is awful so what I'm
hoping is that this

will inspire you
Elijah and all your

mates and your teacher
don't let your

teacher off the hook
and get all of you

to help us work for
these people who are

the most powerless
people in the world

where the government
wants to trample on

them and sacrifice
them somehow to this

you know bizarre
imaginary god of

deterrence I hope
you'll come and help

us I'm so a question
for you both but

maybe Paul can start
and how do you

think that public
opinion has changed

towards the death
penalty and in since

the film was made if
at all and how do

you see the system
changing I think one

of the key things about
the film I think

I should preface it
by saying that six

months after this film
went out climbing

I went back or was
the investigative

journalist and found
the real killer

the man Edwin Johnson
was executed for

and we made a follow-up
film called the

journey and I think
the pair of those

film together as
the BBC sold them

around the world and
I'm gaining we're

literally thousands
of better from

people as one of the towards the

question it's the
Gators in Clive and I

deciding to start
reprieve at the

beginning of kitchen-sink
operation and

it's become a hugely successful

organization to human
rights and say I

saved over 500 lives
in the last 15

years so I think
that it's had a huge

bet those the Pera
films since we been

in

terms of what popular
opinion is you

know you're always
going to find people

who think that you
know an eye for an

eye is somehow going
to be a cool thing

to do and I suppose
the the saying that

we have is why do
we kill people who

kill people to show
that killing people

is long wrong you're
always going to

have people who take
that view and I

think is just the
range but that's not

the issue to me to
me the issue is I

think as Paul was
saying um it there can

be five billion
people who think that

the death penalty
is okay and they're

going to lose if there are a few

committed people who
are there to make

sure that these people
we want to just

go out and kill and now properly

represented and so
to go back to parole

the library's probably
still watching um

you know if we have
a small group of

people which includes
the 32 people that

reprieve it includes
Georgia by the way

you passed so don't
think you can escape

this if there's a small group of

committed people who
are committed to

the idea of doing
justice then we make

sure justice is done
I think that links

into something that
and 'man Schiele

just asked was about
how can the public

help the fight against
the death penalty

or is it purely a legal
fight oh god now

it's not a legal fight
at all the death

penalty is about
power um there is no

moment in life I think
when someone is

quite so powerless
is when the whole

government just wants
to strap you in

and murder you I mean
whatever happens

and obviously there
are dreadful things

that happen when an
individual does that

but when the
government does it the

imbalance is is far
greater and so it's

about power and it's
about redressing

that power and the
law does it in one

way but we can all
do it in different

ways and so for
example it doesn't

matter who you are
you've got a talent

that we can use or
you can use in order

to achieve just as
Paul does it by

making films you can
write about it but

there are there are
other projects I'm

in the middle

one right now which
I'm very excited

about which is about
art and I was just

talking at a school
yesterday morning

where what we're
trying to do is we've

got these guys in
Guantanamo and you

know Guantanamo is the
same as the death

penalty everyone in
Guantanamo faced the

death penalty to begin
with um and you

know everyone's forgotten
about them and

we need to get them
justice and so we

had a bunch of
paintings that are

prisoners in Guantanamo
had made which

got censored because
they were about

being tortured then
obviously the US

authorities didn't
want pictures of

torture coming up so
instead what we did

was I wrote detailed
descriptions along

with Shelby in our
office and we got the

detailed descriptions
out and now we

want artists to reproduce
those pictures

in whatever way
they like and these

could be famous and
artists I hope will

have refuted them
but it can be other

people in school too
and then you know

we'll have exhibitions
and we'll get

people to confront
in very real terms

what sort of ghastly
torture has been

done to the prisoners
in Guantanamo Bay

and there it's going
to be artists and

there's any talent
at all even be it

writing to people in
prison who have no

friends writing
to people is very

powerful I think Paul
will agree with me

that when I say that
the charities that

have been established
where people

simply become pen
friends to folk on

death row have been
amongst the most

positive are results
of 14 days in the

name that's really great

um so I'm just
looking through some

other questions that
people have put in

and just so people on
the live chat know

we're about

there's about a 30
second delay from

when you put questions
in the chat to

when we get them and
so if you think

we're not getting to
your questions fast

enough that that
would be why and so

kind of a question for
you both like how

do you stay optimistic
after kind of all

that you've personally
seen and wrestled

with and challenged
Paul you go first

um I think you
know because being

involved in an organization like

we're which is a
fantastic team where

there is real tangible
results of the

team world getting
people go often

instant off death row
right around the

world is isn't
incredibly incredibly

rewarding and and
and and therefore

expose you or not
not just for the

people who work and
reprieve and collide

fantastic work but
also sort of to make

people at the small
company I run to

make films where
you're trying to

persuade broadcasters
to put a demanding

part of their international
money to you

know unlock stories
that haven't been

told before about people in dire

situations rigid which
doesn't happen as

often as you used to when I made

fourteen days in May
there were there

was much more money
available in those

days to tell stories
of disenfranchised

people around the
world in a way that

just doesn't happen
now we're we're

obsessed with ratings
and reality shows

and you know it's a
great shame beauty

of repeating 14 days
of neighbors you

know it's it's kind
of already mentioned

we're going back to
another big film

with him about a man
that should not be

in prison has been
in prison for 24

years so if I goes I'm ready

in terms of staying
positive um I think

that you just have
to look at what we

end up doing to be
positive yeah I've

lost six of my guys
over the years and

that's awful and
they're going to watch

them get killed but
we've won hundreds

we went 98 percent
of the cases we do

and that win is
different in some cases

I'm and I'm glad to
say an awful lot of

people work free who
are innocent and

then there are some
people who we get

off death row who
should be out of

prison so it's not
always sort of when

you'd really like but
my goodness when

you think about the
different tasks out

there I just don't
understand people who

want to spend every
day working on some

corporate law firm
thing where you know

they're representing
some corporation

that's got plenty
of money already

whereas in our situation we're

representing people
who are in such dire

straits and we win

so often and we get
to take their lives

and give it back to
them and you know

that's amazing so I
don't think you have

to be a delusional
optimist to think

that that that's
fantastic and people

today the nattering
nabobs of negativity

today who say that
we're in such bad

shape when we're
dealing with Donald

Trump and so forth
oh come on you know

compared today with
nineteen thirty nine

to forty five or
compare it to the time

that the Americans
wanted to blow up the

entire world with
nuclear weapons if the

Russians didn't I
mean we are so much

better off with human
rights now it's

not to say that we
don't have to fight

day in day out to
preserve them against

some of the lunatics
who want to take

them away but ah you
know we can do that

we have we have
tremendous influence and

power to do that so
no I don't think I

have to sit around
being all sad and

long face this is
with some notable

exceptions Clyde China
Iran well those

people though they've
been there forever

haven't they and you
know they've been

the Chinese haven't
exactly been tearing

Paragons of virtue
for the last many

years so it hasn't got
any worse I think

China in some ways
getting better

they're talking about
abolishing the

death penalty for
goodness sake now

they're not going to do that and

repressive countries
and not to do the

right thing if we don't
stand up to them

and if we don't force
our own government

for example to stop
cow telling to Saudi

Arabia and all these
dreadful regimes so

yeah we've got lots
of work ahead of us

but but I think that
in my lifetime my

god I do the thirty
years I've done this

um

I look at the
number of wonderful

positive things even
if it's just being

there to help someone's
dignity being

maintained through an incredibly

undignified process
um you know that's a

wonderful thing to be able to do
- I'm

just related to that
I think you you

partially answered
on it but you could

maybe expand a little
bit more and onna

Clark was asking in chat um how

President Trump
has been a strong

supporter of the
death penalty and

has been consistent
in his approach how

do you see the impact
to that and what

his possible huge
policies on capital

punishment and how
that could affect the

USA and the work that
you do well lots

of people think is
a bit rude to talk

about president
from psychological

issues but I'm going
to tell you I think

the man's mad um look
he is a dreadful

person to give that
sort of power to but

in many ways is the
best thing that's

ever happened to human
right there are

people who suffer
horribly under the

jackboot of the Trump
administration let

that not be denied
but at the same time

for the last eight years we had

President Obama in
office and I voted

for Obama and he
tried to be a decent

person but he did
awful things and take

just one example he
he said he was going

to close Guantanamo
he didn't and

instead he substituted
detention without

trial with assassination
of people

around the world
people don't seem to

know that every
Tuesday in the White

House he instituted
terror Tuesday where

they would had a
little PowerPoint

display about who
we're going to murder

this week and they do
the sort of yay or

nay like a Roman
Emperor so Obama was

ghastly but people
wouldn't listen today

Trump is ghastly he's
worse but people

will listen and
as a result we're

getting traction
on issues of human

rights that we haven't
had for the last

eight years and I think
in a bizarre way

that's going to help
us do more for the

cause of human rights
over the next four

years than we've been
able to do in the

Obama administration
and so one people

as well and for
people who do want to

make films and make
art about difficult

subjects like this
like in kind of

touching about on a
little bit about

what you were talking
about earlier

and in the kind of
current climate for

making films like
what's the best way

for people who are
interested in that

kind of work to go
about making film on

subjects like this
that really matter

luckily as we made a
film 30 years ago

technology is as much
improved and got

much lighter and
much cheaper so it's

very it's much easier now for

the impassioned
filmmaker who doesn't

believe in the death
penalty I believe

in human rights too with quite

inexpensive gear to
make a film about

the case of injustice
or a human rights

abuse in a way that
years ago we would

have to make the full crew

you know cameraman
without a courtesan

and variants ending with a very

expensive way of working
but the digital

revolution has made
as men meant a lot

more people being
young filmmakers can

be enfranchised to
make films in quite

cheaply and many
of those films of

course as we all know
are turning up at

festivals and on a
television or all

over the world so
it's quite see it is

quite a the digital
revolution has been

fantastic for renting
or lengthening

expanding the breadth
of human rights

abuses to be thankful
to go to a wider

audience so that's
what I mean watch the

question better well
encourage people to

do - it's not difficult
these days - to

be able to get a
camera and a recorder

and go out and make
the films that you

want to me but the
other thing Georgia

let me let me but in
that there are two

other things they can
do first they can

go do an internship
with Paul at Wilde I

think they should
definitely do that and

then you know work
with them for the

next 30 years but
then the second thing

is they can come and
work with us some

in you Georgia are
a good example of

someone who patronizes
me all the time

because I'm old and totally

technologically useless
mom and Georgia

just if I may boast
about her on camera

here for a bit you're
probably censor

and cut me off in
a minute but is

introducing new ways
that we can reach

broader audiences which
is fantastic and

and what I was
saying earlier about

advocacy is not about
standing up in

court all the time I
love doing that's

great fun it's
interesting but you can

do the same thing
by working with an

organization like
reprieve and I'll say

that I don't think
there are many that

do it quite as well
as some of the

people in our office

I'm bet to come and
and use the the new

forms of media to
reach audiences that

we could never reach
before just to give

you one example you
know instead of

publishing things the
old-fashioned way

where you had to get
some newspaper to

publish it and they
edited all the good

phrases out and made
you sound much less

eloquent well you can
do today is where

you can do that we
can do it both in

writing but also on
so on film and then

we can tweet it around
through all the

friends we have who
reach millions and

millions of people
and we can cut out

old-fashioned media
if we want to you

know we can work
with them if they're

going to do good
stuff has pulled out

that we can go we can
go round them if

we have to and we
can only do that if

you come and work
with reprieve and do

exactly as Georgia
tells you and so will

Jones on Facebook
just asked and how

close do you think
we are to an end to

the death penalty in
the USA well we're

two thousand eight hundred and

twenty-two people
away as of tonight

last night they
killed someone in

Georgia where I spent
many years of my

life so yeah we're
winning that battle

but the problem is
that you know we're

winning it too slowly for the

individuals I mean
right now I think

we're so much closer
the executions have

come down from ninety
nine a few years

ago to twenty last
year and I think that

we at reprieve as can
have contributed a

lot to make that
happen but there are

still thousands of
people if they were

to execute twenty
people a year until

they clear death row
that would be 200

now there be 100
years so you know we

can't ever be smug
until it's until it's

abolished and it's
only going to be

abolished by concerted
efforts on many

many fronts yeah
we can abolish it

state-by-state
yeah we can try to

persuade the supreme
court yeah we can

hope that pharmaceutical
companies as

they have recently
stand up for their

own beliefs and try
to prevent the drugs

from being used in
executions and so on

and so forth but it
is a line-by-line

person-by-person
battle and we can't

ever look at this as

structure that somehow
going to crumble

we got to look at it
as individuals that

we have to represent
I am just going

through some more
questions now so

they're quite a few
people talking about

and what other resources
if they want to

learn more about
the death penalty

what books and websites
and things that

you maybe it's a good
question possibly

for you pool because
sometimes when we

work in the field it
can be a little we

can get a little bit
too dug in is there

anything that you
found useful for

people who aren't
lawyers and who want

to learn a little
bit more about the

death penalty apart
from obviously

watching 14 days
and they oh crikey

that's it one business
we live in a very

sophisticated now social media

orientated society and
it's very easy to

find out all sorts
of things all sorts

of ways of getting
the information you

need to to help in
any way you can and

it's one of the
frustrating things is

because of because
it's now so easy I'm

inundated that my
little company with

our human rights
ideas from really

passionately young
talented people and

very difficult to
get those films

commissioned sadly
you know the the

avenues to go down so
increasingly as we

as we all know like
publishing films

that otres want to
make about issues of

the day that matter
is much easier now

to get those and and
put them online so

my my advice is to
as I did I used to

make my teams before
I started making

West the BBC really
poor amateur film

right

but I did it is having
that passion then

and following your
nose to it's not

difficult these days
much use than when

I'm in 14 days maybe
try so let me let

me respond to that to
there to there are

several things one
can say about that

the first thing is
I'll tell you what no

one a reprieve ever
does which is read

the damn book over
it on it and that's

only used to prop up
people's odds right

but I mean if

- long time that's
one it's got its got

lots of words in it
for ya whoops yeah

it's very short for anyway

injustice is about
Chris Maharaj and

there are lots of
great books out there

which I did in which
I don't include

anything I wrote
there there are some

things though that
you can do you know

one I I sort of
mentioned it briefly

before which is to
write to someone on

death row I don't
think there's any way

that you can get a
better experience of

what this is really
all about then

dealing with the human
beings that are

the victims of it and
you know my mother

who's 90 wrote to
Tracy Hanson on death

row in Mississippi and
you know whatever

your views on the
death penalty they're

going to change even
if you're against

it when I went to
America I was 19 and I

was against the death
penalty but then I

met the people involved
and boy did that

make a difference and
it really shocked

me visiting them I
thought you know what

am I going to talk
to these guys about

the stock on death
row and I'm this

really lucky person
who's going to go

off around the world
or whatever but I

learned so much from
meeting those human

beings and I think
writing to them is

tremendously important
thing the next

thing you need to do
is you need to come

and volunteer a
reprieve and then you

know we'll make you
do more we'll make

you go to America or Pakistan or

whatever and you
know to me that was

life-changing to
obviously reprieve

didn't exist when I
began there going to

America and trying
to work to help the

individuals I learnt
so much in ravenna

and you know for example
you look at the

British legal system
if you're thinking

of going into door
and Britain don't

don't even think
about it until you

start doing something
not in the UFL

through what on earth
is that noise in

the background and
it arrived entropies

they do seem to they
do seem to be some

fantastic noises they're
coming yes it's

a late night and my
office it is a late

night in the office
become to reprieve

try to get people
to be a bit crosser

there and you know
work very hard on

okay

you'll you'll become much better

whatever you want to
do and so I'm just

going to give a five
minute warning to

people in the chat
that are we're going

to start winding down
so if you've got

any burning questions
to ask them now

and a couple of people
are asking about

the death penalty not
just in the US but

around the world

and what are the kind
of what countries

are kind of the top
executioner's and

what people can do
about the death

penalty and not just
in the US but in

other countries as
well so you've got

lots of different awful
places of course

and you know China
is is a in a paragon

of non virtue but
um that you've also

got like the the the
country with the

biggest death row is
Pakistan bizarrely

over 8,000 people on
death row there and

it's a classic example
of using small

individual human
beings as pawns in a

political system
where yeah I was

talking to a judge
in Pakistan one time

and he told me he
thought that 60% of

the people on death
row were innocent

for goodness sake um
in the quality of

representation there
when you have a

court-appointed
lawyer they he or she

gets paid the equivalent
of 23 dollars

to represent you
for goodness knows

three years or however
long the case

takes so it's abysmal
in a place like

that there's you know
obviously Iran is

another shocking place
that has a lot of

executions but then
there are a lot of

countries that are
very susceptible to

change and we're
working in various

African countries
where the death

penalty has just been
accepted as a norm

and in the Middle
East and these are

places where you can make a huge

difference because
people have never

heard of the idea
that actually know

this is really
barbaric and achieves

nothing and so you
know we're making a

lot of headway in those
countries and it

isn't a question of
whether the death

penalty is going to
die it's a question

of when and you know
when the history

books are written
they're not going to

say that burning
witches at the stake

were a great thing
and they're not must

say that torturing
people to death in

the electric chair
was a great thing it

is so barbaric

that is not true so
we're going to win

the battle it's a
matter of how long

it's going to take
I'm just because I

have the information
up here and quite a

few people were asking
what who were the

top executing countries
last year and it

was um China followed
by Iran followed

by Saudi Arabia followed by Iraq

followed by Pakistan
followed by Egypt

followed by the
United States um so

there are a couple
more questions that

I've just come through and one

specifically for you
Clive and this is

from DICE Tubbs um
who said does wolf

right hello who said
does Wilf who for

people who don't know
is Clive Sun want

to become a human
rights lawyer or does

he want to be something
way more cool oh

well who is it viii
wants to be way more

than his father well
it takes a keen

interest in human
rights and indeed as

an American citizen
he's very concerned

about um

Donald Trump and he
asked me AJ recently

he said I'm not going
to go to America

again unless you
get a letter from

President Trump promising
not to torture

me which pretty
shocking thing for an

eight-year-old to say that wolf

currently is not
aiming to be a human

rights lawyer he's
aiming to be the

world's greatest
minecraft redstone

engineer and which
may mean die nothing

to you I suspect but
I think it'll mean

a lot people are a
little bit younger

than you and me that's
what he wants to

do now and we'll
just have to see I'm

not gonna tempt fate
by by saying that I

promise he'll ever
be a hedge fund

manager there will had
just after Braden

see and a couple of
people were asking

about if there is
anything that we can

do in countries that
are more insular

such as the North
Korea's and the

China's and the
world about weather

where public opinion
is a little bit

harder to get in
what we can do about

pressuring our own
governments whether

that be the UK or the
US and to act and

do more it is an
interesting issue

and I've got to say
a huge amount of

what we reprieve do
is about maneuvering

our people who are
our allies or should

be our allies to do
more so for example

if we can't get into
Saudi Arabia and we

can't then we can
do a great deal to

help protect people
in Saudi Arabia and

you know a good
example with the kids

who are facing execution
by crucifixion

for goodness sake for having the

temerity to demonstrate
against the

government and you
know whatever you

think about the Saudi
Arabian government

surely we all have the right to

demonstrate and you
know it's entirely

plausible though
the Saudi Arabian

government doesn't
care what I think and

doesn't care what
you think that the

British government
cares and we were

able to put a lot
of pressure on the

British government
to force them to

stand up for the
principles that they at

least pretend that
they believe in and

by doing that we can
force them to raise

these issues in a
forceful way which

hopefully will have
a positive effect

around the world and
the same story of

America or America
for whatever reason

even though we execute
our own people if

other countries are
trying to execute an

American we get
terribly upset about

that and so again it
is possible to get

the Americans to
intervene the u.s. is

intervene quite
forcefully in in the

Philippines where
president duterte was

another lunatic has
got as Kurt has been

encouraging people who
assassinate 8,000

people so far in one year of his

presidency and he
announced that he

wanted to kill 3
million drug addicts

for goodness sake and
you know maybe he

won't listen to me
won't listen to the

Pope apparently but
but he will listen

if we mobilize
enough international

opinion so I think
yeah there's a huge

amount we can do to
force governments

who should be friendly
to do the right

thing in helping
to influence even

unfriendly governments
and so I'm just

going to finish off
with a question for

you both about and
about the making of a

film and if you
have a particular

memory of working with
Edward that you'd

want to share your
ahead porn I think

there was not
surprisingly the worst

thinking about making
the film with the

last 12 hours when
every life and his

team had tried so
hard to save his life

this final appeal to
the governor and is

just we had great hope
that wielded that

that he'd be exonerated
and it didn't

happen so spending
the last hours of

Edward L Johnson's
life but it was very

painful because we
got no it might been

in for three years
as his Appeals the

appeals process took
took their course

and so you he'd become
a friend may take

chest with him every
day in those last

two weeks and he
knew a lot about my

family I knew a lot
about his and it was

a it was not just a
television character

it was someone who
become a friend being

killed in a most
barbaric way a mallet

didn't do it a man
that we were then

they'd approve so
that the memory of

that thought was the
pain of those lot

fathers oh I have
such mixed emotions

about all of this
because it was awful

it was dreadful dreadful
and uh you know

Edward was young and
he was a nice lad

and I really liked him
and um it was all

so surreal and in a
way that's a real

quality helped him
you know I walked

into the gas chamber
with Edward and you

know as I walked in
there with him and

which was thanks to
Don Korat banner the

warden who let me do
it and he said as I

gave him a hug in
the gas chamber he

said is there something
you know that I

don't know and I didn't really

understand what he
meant to begin with

and I mumbled something
stupid and reply

but obviously what
he meant ultimately

was he thought that
the fact that we're

all these cameras
around meant that

someone was going
to call cut and it

wasn't going to
happen and he really

really didn't believe
it was going to

happen until the
very last minute

and in so many
ways that was good

because it gave him
hope up until the

very last second now
you know there's

nothing good that you
can say about the

fact that they
ultimately killed him um

but what one can say
is that I think

through the people who
were fighting for

him whether it was you
know myself doing

some of the legal
work with Rob Macduff

or Paul and his
team who were there

clearly as his friends
or some of the

guards who were decent
human beings you

know I think between
everyone it was

possible to make an
unbelievably inhuman

event a tiny tiny bit
more human and in

a way if that's all
we were able to

achieve I think at
least that was an

honorable thing to be
able to do right I

am just going to
draw everything to a

close and people can
find out more about

reprieve flag on our
website where you

can join our mailing
list well you'll

get actions with
where you can help

people who are
currently on death row

and you can donate to
help fund our work

and you can follow
us on twitter at

reprieve and you
can follow us on

facebook by searching
for a brief and

just keep up to date
on everything on

our website so there
have been lots and

lots of you following
and asking some

really good questions
and having really

good and lovely and civilized

conversations and and
live chat so thank

you for that and thank you

Clive and Paul to
your time as well I'm

so much we're just
calling to an end so

thank you very much
for everybody who

has sat and sat with
us for the past two

hours um I hope you
all have a really

nice evening

um so we're just pulling to stop