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1
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Crouch could very easily
be suspect in other cases.
2
00:00:28,153 --> 00:00:30,071
This looks like he slipped
through the cracks.
3
00:00:30,072 --> 00:00:32,865
And on a side note, I got
a phone call yesterday that
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00:00:32,866 --> 00:00:35,368
Travis Crouch is
getting paroled.
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00:00:35,369 --> 00:00:37,703
His hearing is today.
6
00:00:37,704 --> 00:00:42,667
We had our next cold case
meeting scheduled already.
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We find out, going
into that meeting,
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00:00:46,213 --> 00:00:49,590
that Travis is actually
set for his parole hearing
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00:00:49,591 --> 00:00:53,594
the Thursday of that week, his
first time eligible for parole.
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00:00:53,595 --> 00:00:55,012
So, of course, we're
following that closely
11
00:00:55,013 --> 00:00:57,932
because he's a strong
person of interest
12
00:00:57,933 --> 00:00:59,558
at minimum at this point.
13
00:00:59,559 --> 00:01:04,021
Ideally, we'd like to
interview him in custody
14
00:01:04,022 --> 00:01:05,314
where he's not a
risk to the public.
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00:01:05,315 --> 00:01:07,400
And if he's getting
out in October,
16
00:01:07,401 --> 00:01:10,695
then that really puts us at a
pace we don't want to be at.
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00:01:10,696 --> 00:01:15,950
We'd like to slow roll and have
all the resources in place.
18
00:01:15,951 --> 00:01:17,577
And if I read his
documents right,
19
00:01:17,578 --> 00:01:20,037
his parole release date
would be in October.
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00:01:20,038 --> 00:01:24,667
So if he did get granted,
we're on a two-month clock.
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00:01:24,668 --> 00:01:28,713
If he didn't, he did tell me
he could reapply in a year.
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00:01:28,714 --> 00:01:31,716
So we're on a one-year
clock if he got denied.
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00:01:37,806 --> 00:01:42,351
Detective Marion
comes in and says
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00:01:42,352 --> 00:01:44,770
he knows that I've
been tasked with
25
00:01:44,771 --> 00:01:46,522
the Travis Crouch
side of things.
26
00:01:46,523 --> 00:01:49,400
And he says, received a phone
call that Travis's victim
27
00:01:49,401 --> 00:01:51,235
would like to talk to us.
28
00:01:51,236 --> 00:01:52,486
I didn't know...
29
00:01:52,487 --> 00:01:56,866
I mean, I saw Marion
tell you about that call.
30
00:01:56,867 --> 00:01:59,535
And so...
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00:01:59,536 --> 00:02:02,580
I did... I mean, when
did she call him?
32
00:02:02,581 --> 00:02:03,873
Yesterday.
33
00:02:03,874 --> 00:02:06,292
And do we know
what prompted that?
34
00:02:06,293 --> 00:02:08,794
My assumption would
be the parole hearing.
35
00:02:08,795 --> 00:02:10,212
- But no, I don't know.
- OK.
36
00:02:10,213 --> 00:02:11,756
He hadn't spoken to her.
37
00:02:11,757 --> 00:02:17,011
And so, for sure, it's the
victim of Travis Crouch,
38
00:02:17,012 --> 00:02:19,472
who he's convicted
on in Colorado.
39
00:02:19,473 --> 00:02:21,349
That's what I've
been led to believe.
40
00:02:21,350 --> 00:02:25,436
Special Agent Allen and I
did make a phone call to her.
41
00:02:25,437 --> 00:02:27,229
It's been 26 years.
42
00:02:27,230 --> 00:02:29,857
And she is... she's
struggled to talk about it,
43
00:02:29,858 --> 00:02:31,567
and we didn't force it.
44
00:02:31,568 --> 00:02:34,111
We're not going to... we have
records we can go back to.
45
00:02:34,112 --> 00:02:37,573
So we don't need to make
her relive all that.
46
00:02:37,574 --> 00:02:40,993
She had testified in the parole
hearing one way or another,
47
00:02:40,994 --> 00:02:43,871
but that wound had been opened
for the first time in...
48
00:02:43,872 --> 00:02:45,539
since that trial was over.
49
00:02:45,540 --> 00:02:48,209
So she had been through
a rough couple of days,
50
00:02:48,210 --> 00:02:49,210
to say the least.
51
00:02:49,211 --> 00:02:51,128
But we did speak to her.
52
00:02:51,129 --> 00:02:53,464
Fortunately, she was strong.
53
00:02:53,465 --> 00:02:58,386
His victim fought this
parole, and it was denied.
54
00:03:04,059 --> 00:03:06,894
He'll be in Colorado prison
for at least another year.
55
00:03:06,895 --> 00:03:11,107
He'll be eligible for another
parole hearing in a year,
56
00:03:11,108 --> 00:03:12,733
and we'll see what happens.
57
00:03:12,734 --> 00:03:16,404
But the timing was wild that
the day of that meeting,
58
00:03:16,405 --> 00:03:18,906
we found out, he's going
to have a parole hearing
59
00:03:18,907 --> 00:03:20,116
two days later.
60
00:03:20,117 --> 00:03:21,826
But we were on a
pretty tight clock
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00:03:21,827 --> 00:03:24,620
if his parole had been
released, and worse than that,
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00:03:24,621 --> 00:03:26,247
he would be back on the streets.
63
00:03:26,248 --> 00:03:28,499
You know, maybe he was
reformed in prison,
64
00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:29,834
but we don't know that.
65
00:03:29,835 --> 00:03:32,628
And the data that
we do have on him
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00:03:32,629 --> 00:03:34,463
+is that he was very violent.
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00:03:34,464 --> 00:03:37,049
And I'm not sitting here saying,
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00:03:37,050 --> 00:03:38,342
for sure, that he did it.
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00:03:38,343 --> 00:03:39,677
He's a really good
suspect, though.
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00:03:39,678 --> 00:03:42,096
And our job is to
either rule him out
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00:03:42,097 --> 00:03:45,349
or prove that it was him.
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00:05:28,787 --> 00:05:30,913
So we know Melissa
was hit in the head.
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00:05:30,914 --> 00:05:34,083
The medical examiner said
it was something that was...
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00:05:34,084 --> 00:05:36,377
could render her unconscious,
75
00:05:36,378 --> 00:05:38,337
but it was not enough of a blow
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00:05:38,338 --> 00:05:40,381
that could be the
cause of death.
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00:05:40,382 --> 00:05:43,050
So that tells me,
about the crime scene,
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00:05:43,051 --> 00:05:45,594
that she was struck
and then, I believe,
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00:05:45,595 --> 00:05:47,388
carried through the parking lot.
80
00:05:47,389 --> 00:05:50,599
And that's why the blood
spots are so spread out.
81
00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,769
But the longer she was
carried to the parking lot,
82
00:05:53,770 --> 00:05:57,189
you get the larger blood
spots towards the, uh...
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00:05:57,190 --> 00:05:59,775
towards the back
of the parking lot.
84
00:05:59,776 --> 00:06:01,735
The way the attack happened...
this could have been
85
00:06:01,736 --> 00:06:04,613
a random person sitting
in the parking lot
86
00:06:04,614 --> 00:06:06,907
that saw her and, you
know, acted immediately.
87
00:06:06,908 --> 00:06:10,035
This could have been
someone that she knew
88
00:06:10,036 --> 00:06:11,662
and had an argument with.
89
00:06:11,663 --> 00:06:14,582
We know that there was a man
and a woman in the parking lot
90
00:06:14,583 --> 00:06:17,710
and a verbal disagreement
that caused alarm
91
00:06:17,711 --> 00:06:19,753
to the 11-year-old
that went outside.
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00:06:19,754 --> 00:06:21,922
So if I was to speculate,
93
00:06:21,923 --> 00:06:24,967
I would say that Melissa got
into an argument with someone
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00:06:24,968 --> 00:06:26,468
that she knew.
95
00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:28,971
And she turned to go
towards the bowling alley,
96
00:06:28,972 --> 00:06:31,515
and she was hit in the head.
97
00:06:31,516 --> 00:06:32,975
So during the investigation,
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00:06:32,976 --> 00:06:37,605
detectives go to Missy's home.
99
00:06:37,606 --> 00:06:39,231
And when they're at their home,
100
00:06:39,232 --> 00:06:41,358
they're going to collect items
that may help with the case.
101
00:06:41,359 --> 00:06:45,446
One item that detectives
did take was a diary.
102
00:06:45,447 --> 00:06:48,490
The last entry was
a week or two before
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00:06:48,491 --> 00:06:50,075
she had actually went missing.
104
00:06:50,076 --> 00:06:53,662
Inside the diary, you know, she
laid out just about everything
105
00:06:53,663 --> 00:06:57,916
she... her friends, every
activity she had done.
106
00:06:57,917 --> 00:07:01,045
And Melissa seemed like she
was a very outgoing person.
107
00:07:01,046 --> 00:07:04,548
There was nothing to
indicate any kind of
108
00:07:04,549 --> 00:07:08,218
drug activity or alcohol
activity, anything like that.
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00:07:08,219 --> 00:07:10,429
She just seemed
like she was a...
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00:07:10,430 --> 00:07:12,389
just a very young...
111
00:07:12,390 --> 00:07:16,268
I'd say love-stricken teenager.
112
00:07:16,269 --> 00:07:18,979
Looking at some of the
people in the investigation,
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00:07:18,980 --> 00:07:23,817
such as Charles Ray
Vines, Travis Crouch,
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00:07:23,818 --> 00:07:27,029
their MOs were outliers.
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00:07:27,030 --> 00:07:28,530
They were different.
116
00:07:28,531 --> 00:07:32,868
You start looking
at, who knew Missy?
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00:07:32,869 --> 00:07:35,913
Statistics show that
something like this
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00:07:35,914 --> 00:07:37,373
is going to be
most likely someone
119
00:07:37,374 --> 00:07:39,166
that she was associated with.
120
00:07:49,511 --> 00:07:53,430
Any type of case you work,
the victim's statement is
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00:07:53,431 --> 00:07:55,057
the best thing that you have.
122
00:07:55,058 --> 00:07:57,101
I mean, what they experienced,
how they experienced it.
123
00:07:57,102 --> 00:08:00,104
And that was exactly what
finding the diary was like.
124
00:08:00,105 --> 00:08:03,357
You have her day-to-day
life in her own words.
125
00:08:03,358 --> 00:08:07,403
She references boyfriends,
friends, going to parties,
126
00:08:07,404 --> 00:08:10,739
people that have said
ill things about her,
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00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:12,199
people she doesn't like.
128
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,326
Melissa was very
meticulous in the way
129
00:08:14,327 --> 00:08:17,079
that she wrote things
and described things.
130
00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,874
I mean, you could almost feel
her excitement in her words.
131
00:08:20,875 --> 00:08:24,670
As we're searching all the
documents, what was done,
132
00:08:24,671 --> 00:08:26,964
what do we want to do, what
do we still need to do.
133
00:08:32,887 --> 00:08:34,930
We know Missy was bleeding
134
00:08:34,931 --> 00:08:36,265
in the parking lot
of Bowling World.
135
00:08:36,266 --> 00:08:37,599
We found blood.
136
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,518
So we assume that
the bleeding will
137
00:08:39,519 --> 00:08:42,646
continue on into the
vehicle she was placed in.
138
00:08:42,647 --> 00:08:44,398
As the investigation is ongoing,
139
00:08:44,399 --> 00:08:46,984
you know, multiple vehicles
are being searched.
140
00:08:46,985 --> 00:08:48,527
Trying to rule people out.
141
00:08:48,528 --> 00:08:49,862
If you do find blood,
then we're going
142
00:08:49,863 --> 00:08:51,613
to want to have it analyzed.
143
00:08:51,614 --> 00:08:56,160
So that's something that we
are, you know, hoping to find,
144
00:08:56,161 --> 00:08:58,203
rule out, look at.
145
00:08:58,204 --> 00:09:01,248
As part of the investigation,
we look at phone records.
146
00:09:01,249 --> 00:09:04,710
So we pull up the phone
records for her house.
147
00:09:04,711 --> 00:09:08,255
We look at the phone number
and the date and time,
148
00:09:08,256 --> 00:09:10,632
and then we go and
look at the diary.
149
00:09:10,633 --> 00:09:16,388
And surely, you know,
right there is a document
150
00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:18,390
in Missy's own words
151
00:09:18,391 --> 00:09:20,142
about what was discussed
on the phone call,
152
00:09:20,143 --> 00:09:23,687
how she felt about the phone
call, who she spoke with.
153
00:09:23,688 --> 00:09:27,441
So it's basically
Missy talking to us.
154
00:09:27,442 --> 00:09:31,779
And, you know, we got the date
and time of the phone call,
155
00:09:31,780 --> 00:09:36,366
and then we have how Missy
felt about that phone call
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00:09:36,367 --> 00:09:38,577
and what she wanted to tell us.
157
00:09:38,578 --> 00:09:40,579
So it's real nice to have that,
158
00:09:40,580 --> 00:09:42,623
where we can make
that connection.
159
00:09:42,624 --> 00:09:44,833
This is who she spoke to,
160
00:09:44,834 --> 00:09:47,252
and this is how the
conversation went.
161
00:09:47,253 --> 00:09:50,172
My goal at that point is to
find out as much as I can,
162
00:09:50,173 --> 00:09:53,342
try to interview friends,
family, just to build a profile
163
00:09:53,343 --> 00:09:55,385
and see what other
people's interactions,
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00:09:55,386 --> 00:09:57,805
other relationships,
what those were like.
165
00:10:24,541 --> 00:10:27,543
Baker, you got some
updates on Crouch on CODIS?
166
00:10:27,544 --> 00:10:29,211
Yeah. Yeah.
167
00:10:29,212 --> 00:10:31,338
We'd noticed in his IIIs that
there was an entry that said,
168
00:10:31,339 --> 00:10:32,589
no CODIS entry made.
169
00:10:32,590 --> 00:10:33,966
Collect DNA.
170
00:10:33,967 --> 00:10:36,510
So that was a little alarming.
171
00:10:36,511 --> 00:10:38,637
Contacted the Colorado
Bureau of Investigation,
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00:10:38,638 --> 00:10:41,515
and they said, on their
end, yes, there is one,
173
00:10:41,516 --> 00:10:43,934
and it's constantly
being searched.
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00:10:43,935 --> 00:10:46,353
I still wasn't real comfortable
with that, given the IIIs.
175
00:10:46,354 --> 00:10:48,438
So Arkansas State crime lab...
176
00:10:48,439 --> 00:10:51,275
Miranda Crawford's
also checking that.
177
00:10:51,276 --> 00:10:54,403
She said in her
findings, the same thing.
178
00:10:54,404 --> 00:10:56,238
She's going to go a
little more in depth
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00:10:56,239 --> 00:10:58,532
into the cigarette butt and the
evidence that they're aware of
180
00:10:58,533 --> 00:11:01,326
and the partial off the
cigarette butt up there,
181
00:11:01,327 --> 00:11:03,912
and see if... she said
there's been no hit on it.
182
00:11:03,913 --> 00:11:05,497
But she's going
to make sure it's
183
00:11:05,498 --> 00:11:08,584
being processed in such
a way that if it's there,
184
00:11:08,585 --> 00:11:10,711
they'll find it, so...
185
00:11:10,712 --> 00:11:12,963
The family... his family said
186
00:11:12,964 --> 00:11:16,341
he... he was not in
the area in this time.
187
00:11:16,342 --> 00:11:19,595
There's a lady named Glenda
who lives in that area.
188
00:11:19,596 --> 00:11:22,222
And she came forward
and said he absolutely
189
00:11:22,223 --> 00:11:24,057
was in this area at that time.
190
00:11:24,058 --> 00:11:25,767
She remembered, for
sure, that it was Travis.
191
00:11:25,768 --> 00:11:28,437
She remembered for sure that
Travis was in his mama's car.
192
00:11:28,438 --> 00:11:32,232
And it would have been six to
eight weeks after Labor Day,
193
00:11:32,233 --> 00:11:37,029
putting us somewhere
in November that Travis
194
00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:39,489
was absolutely in this area.
195
00:11:39,490 --> 00:11:42,951
Miss Glenda is still
locked in on that.
196
00:11:42,952 --> 00:11:47,706
She is in a difficult position
because she is still very good
197
00:11:47,707 --> 00:11:51,043
friends with Travis's parents.
198
00:11:51,044 --> 00:11:54,129
She said maybe they just
misremember the dates.
199
00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:57,466
She doesn't think they're
doing it intentionally.
200
00:11:57,467 --> 00:12:00,052
She made an interesting
comment to us.
201
00:12:00,053 --> 00:12:01,929
Because as soon as we
walked in, she said,
202
00:12:01,930 --> 00:12:03,889
you're here about Melissa
and Travis, aren't you?
203
00:12:03,890 --> 00:12:06,141
And we said, yeah. We
want to visit with you.
204
00:12:06,142 --> 00:12:08,852
She said, well, I
can tell you this.
205
00:12:08,853 --> 00:12:10,437
Travis didn't kill her.
206
00:12:10,438 --> 00:12:11,730
Travis wasn't a killer.
207
00:12:11,731 --> 00:12:13,690
He was only a rapist.
208
00:12:13,691 --> 00:12:15,734
So we just kind of
filed that back,
209
00:12:15,735 --> 00:12:18,570
knowing the behavioral
patterns of serial rapist
210
00:12:18,571 --> 00:12:21,114
and the affinity for violence.
211
00:12:21,115 --> 00:12:23,867
So we didn't dig into
that with Ms. Glenda.
212
00:12:23,868 --> 00:12:26,161
I wasn't trying to run his
name into the dirt with her.
213
00:12:26,162 --> 00:12:28,956
I just wanted to
corroborate with her
214
00:12:28,957 --> 00:12:32,960
that he was in this area
in that general timeframe.
215
00:12:32,961 --> 00:12:34,670
And we were able to.
216
00:12:34,671 --> 00:12:40,300
His ex-wife stated that every
time he got out of jail,
217
00:12:40,301 --> 00:12:42,094
he always went
back to his dad's.
218
00:12:42,095 --> 00:12:45,263
We know, for sure, New
Orleans PD ran him in NCIC
219
00:12:45,264 --> 00:12:46,890
on January 3 of '95.
220
00:12:46,891 --> 00:12:49,643
So we've got a firmly
established line.
221
00:12:49,644 --> 00:12:51,269
We've got a
north-to-south travel line
222
00:12:51,270 --> 00:12:54,439
from Minneapolis to New
Orleans that logically
223
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,359
would include our area.
224
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,569
If Travis Crouch is the suspect,
225
00:12:59,570 --> 00:13:02,239
whatever vehicle he
used to transport
226
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,408
Melissa will have
blood in it because
227
00:13:04,409 --> 00:13:06,034
we know it was a bloody scene.
228
00:13:06,035 --> 00:13:07,869
We know that when
she got in that car,
229
00:13:07,870 --> 00:13:09,329
she didn't suddenly
stop bleeding.
230
00:13:09,330 --> 00:13:13,542
So if we can ever find a vehicle
231
00:13:13,543 --> 00:13:18,714
that has her blood, especially
if it's connected to him...
232
00:13:18,715 --> 00:13:21,466
but even if it's one of
these other gentlemen...
233
00:13:21,467 --> 00:13:24,678
these other men that
we're looking at...
234
00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:26,513
then that's rock-solid evidence
235
00:13:26,514 --> 00:13:27,848
that she was in that car.
236
00:13:27,849 --> 00:13:29,433
But I think it's worth our while
237
00:13:29,434 --> 00:13:31,643
to look into the other
cars, see if we can find
238
00:13:31,644 --> 00:13:33,186
some other vehicles,
belong to the family,
239
00:13:33,187 --> 00:13:37,357
see if we can track them down
and perhaps run those as well.
240
00:13:37,358 --> 00:13:41,112
And maybe he was driving
something different that day.
241
00:13:43,573 --> 00:13:45,198
You know, you have this
242
00:13:45,199 --> 00:13:47,034
beautiful young woman that
243
00:13:47,035 --> 00:13:50,871
was abducted and murdered,
and then her body dumped
244
00:13:50,872 --> 00:13:54,791
out here in the National Forest,
245
00:13:54,792 --> 00:13:58,128
and, you know, stripped nude.
246
00:13:58,129 --> 00:14:02,674
I mean, just... it's not right
247
00:14:02,675 --> 00:14:04,801
not to be able to figure
out who did this to her
248
00:14:04,802 --> 00:14:06,386
and bring them to justice.
249
00:14:06,387 --> 00:14:09,181
Even though, like you
said, her parents are gone,
250
00:14:09,182 --> 00:14:11,641
I think the community
demands that,
251
00:14:11,642 --> 00:14:15,187
and that's what they
expect from, you know,
252
00:14:15,188 --> 00:14:16,772
the police department.
253
00:14:16,773 --> 00:14:19,316
It's not about pointing
fingers or, you know,
254
00:14:19,317 --> 00:14:23,445
did you do a good job,
did you not do a good job.
255
00:14:23,446 --> 00:14:25,864
Trying to find something...
something to grasp
256
00:14:25,865 --> 00:14:28,784
and identify who did this.
257
00:14:28,785 --> 00:14:32,079
And even if that person
is no longer here,
258
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,499
at least we could wrap
it up and, you know,
259
00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:41,254
say, without a doubt, this
is the person that did it.
260
00:14:41,255 --> 00:14:43,882
I mean, just... to
me, you abduct her,
261
00:14:43,883 --> 00:14:45,926
knock her over the head,
fight with her, whatever,
262
00:14:45,927 --> 00:14:49,721
in the parking lot, and
then drive all the way up...
263
00:14:49,722 --> 00:14:51,348
I mean, we're not even
on the logging road yet.
264
00:14:51,349 --> 00:14:52,933
We're not even there. Yeah.
265
00:14:52,934 --> 00:14:54,810
And it happens at night.
266
00:14:54,811 --> 00:14:56,269
It's pitch black out here.
267
00:14:56,270 --> 00:14:57,938
Yeah.
268
00:14:57,939 --> 00:15:00,524
I mean, there's 1,000 places
he could have dumped her.
269
00:15:00,525 --> 00:15:02,317
It's just hard to
fathom he randomly
270
00:15:02,318 --> 00:15:04,528
ended up on a logging road.
271
00:15:04,529 --> 00:15:07,489
Yeah, because the store
and the campground
272
00:15:07,490 --> 00:15:10,659
was on the aerial maps.
273
00:15:10,660 --> 00:15:12,911
We're still here, so...
274
00:15:12,912 --> 00:15:14,454
But then you got the campground,
275
00:15:14,455 --> 00:15:16,039
which puts Travis
Crouch in the area,
276
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:17,833
and then you got the cemetery.
277
00:15:17,834 --> 00:15:20,043
And the lady that puts him in
the area worked at that store
278
00:15:20,044 --> 00:15:21,461
right there.
279
00:15:21,462 --> 00:15:22,838
That's where she
said she saw him.
280
00:15:22,839 --> 00:15:24,714
And she still holds
that to this day,
281
00:15:24,715 --> 00:15:26,466
even though she doesn't
think he did it.
282
00:15:26,467 --> 00:15:29,010
She's friends with his parents.
283
00:15:29,011 --> 00:15:32,305
She absolutely holds
that he was right there,
284
00:15:32,306 --> 00:15:33,890
picking up those puppies...
285
00:15:33,891 --> 00:15:38,645
picking up a puppy
in his mama's car
286
00:15:38,646 --> 00:15:41,189
in the time he says
he wasn't here.
287
00:15:41,190 --> 00:15:43,024
And then you got
Charles Ray Vines
288
00:15:43,025 --> 00:15:46,820
that had a work order
for digging the cemetery
289
00:15:46,821 --> 00:15:49,072
even closer to the logging road.
290
00:15:49,073 --> 00:15:50,240
So...
291
00:15:50,241 --> 00:15:52,951
Well, we'll get on up there.
292
00:15:52,952 --> 00:15:54,786
We got a lot to do.
293
00:15:54,787 --> 00:15:57,747
When I think about it,
294
00:15:57,748 --> 00:16:03,670
I mean, we are already quite
a distance away from 40.
295
00:16:03,671 --> 00:16:06,214
And the windy roads,
coming up here
296
00:16:06,215 --> 00:16:08,800
in the middle of the night,
how dark it would be...
297
00:16:08,801 --> 00:16:10,844
like you said, he definitely
have to be familiar.
298
00:16:10,845 --> 00:16:13,346
And this is just on the highway.
299
00:16:13,347 --> 00:16:16,558
You know, we're not even
on the logging road yet.
300
00:16:16,559 --> 00:16:20,729
So that adds another
whole layer of someone
301
00:16:20,730 --> 00:16:22,439
has to be familiar with the area
302
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,482
to get all the way up there.
303
00:16:24,483 --> 00:16:25,817
I don't know.
304
00:16:25,818 --> 00:16:28,945
I keep going back
to Crouch or...
305
00:16:28,946 --> 00:16:30,238
I don't know.
306
00:16:30,239 --> 00:16:34,534
I just... it's so
fucking far out here.
307
00:16:34,535 --> 00:16:37,788
I mean, look at this, going...
308
00:16:53,304 --> 00:16:54,804
Kind of spooky how that big rock
309
00:16:54,805 --> 00:16:57,390
almost looks like a headstone.
310
00:17:21,082 --> 00:17:23,041
So when you're
examining a cold case,
311
00:17:23,042 --> 00:17:24,542
and you want to look
at the evidence,
312
00:17:24,543 --> 00:17:26,294
you're going to pull
all this evidence out
313
00:17:26,295 --> 00:17:28,838
so you can determine
what evidence
314
00:17:28,839 --> 00:17:32,425
is best and will give you
the best luck of getting
315
00:17:32,426 --> 00:17:34,469
a return on DNA, say.
316
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:38,181
DNA has made leaps
and bounds, advances,
317
00:17:38,182 --> 00:17:40,517
and they can do a lot
more now than they could
318
00:17:40,518 --> 00:17:44,063
back in 1995, 2000.
319
00:17:46,315 --> 00:17:50,485
When we're looking at new
procedures and the advancement
320
00:17:50,486 --> 00:17:54,489
in technology, we really want
to look at possibly submitting
321
00:17:54,490 --> 00:17:57,742
almost everything
again, and private labs
322
00:17:57,743 --> 00:18:01,496
as well, who may have
a better technology
323
00:18:01,497 --> 00:18:04,833
than your state crime lab.
324
00:18:18,306 --> 00:18:21,308
One of the first
questions I had is,
325
00:18:21,309 --> 00:18:23,143
um, the nail clippings.
326
00:18:23,144 --> 00:18:25,145
I know the ME took those,
327
00:18:25,146 --> 00:18:27,981
like, when you did the autopsy.
328
00:18:27,982 --> 00:18:29,607
But I haven't found...
329
00:18:29,608 --> 00:18:31,526
I know you sent me something
on the nail clippings,
330
00:18:31,527 --> 00:18:33,570
but it said it was,
like, being retained,
331
00:18:33,571 --> 00:18:36,574
that it hasn't been tested.
332
00:18:52,173 --> 00:18:53,340
I got you on speaker.
333
00:18:53,341 --> 00:18:55,008
But no, I was just
calling earlier.
334
00:18:55,009 --> 00:18:57,761
We were fixing to go into a
meeting with the crime lab.
335
00:18:57,762 --> 00:19:00,597
And we had a list of
questions and stuff,
336
00:19:00,598 --> 00:19:02,974
and we wanted to make sure
we didn't miss anything.
337
00:19:02,975 --> 00:19:04,934
It's pretty exciting. So...
338
00:19:04,935 --> 00:19:07,020
Yeah.
339
00:19:07,021 --> 00:19:09,981
The... they said, from their
end, what they can tell...
340
00:19:09,982 --> 00:19:13,777
the fingernail clippings
have never been tested.
341
00:19:13,778 --> 00:19:15,487
Ooh, that is exciting.
342
00:19:15,488 --> 00:19:17,447
So that's pretty awesome.
343
00:19:17,448 --> 00:19:19,115
So...
344
00:19:19,116 --> 00:19:21,034
Yeah.
345
00:19:21,035 --> 00:19:22,869
They've got them there,
346
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:24,788
so they're fixing to
start testing them.
347
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:27,207
They said it could be anywhere
from three to six months,
348
00:19:27,208 --> 00:19:31,753
but just depending on
if they can get people
349
00:19:31,754 --> 00:19:34,047
moved to the cold case stuff.
350
00:19:34,048 --> 00:19:35,882
And then, like, the
blood droplets...
351
00:19:35,883 --> 00:19:39,219
you know, we talked about,
like, did they test each one,
352
00:19:39,220 --> 00:19:40,762
or did it...
353
00:19:40,763 --> 00:19:44,057
you know, they just
test one or two spots?
354
00:19:44,058 --> 00:19:46,351
And they said most likely
it was the one or two spots,
355
00:19:46,352 --> 00:19:48,311
but they were going to go back,
356
00:19:48,312 --> 00:19:50,939
and they would
retest all of them.
357
00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:52,899
OK.
358
00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:54,567
Pretty exciting. So...
359
00:19:54,568 --> 00:19:56,528
Dude, that fingernail
thing... that is exciting.
360
00:19:56,529 --> 00:19:58,488
Oh, my gosh.
361
00:19:58,489 --> 00:19:59,656
Hopefully...
362
00:19:59,657 --> 00:20:01,282
You know, that could be...
363
00:20:01,283 --> 00:20:03,201
I mean, that has the potential
to be a huge breakthrough.
364
00:20:03,202 --> 00:20:06,204
We'll see.
365
00:20:06,205 --> 00:20:09,124
It seems like that's our
best potential right now.
366
00:20:09,125 --> 00:20:11,961
Right. Yeah, I agree.
367
00:20:14,171 --> 00:20:15,880
The whole purpose of
the Cold Case group
368
00:20:15,881 --> 00:20:18,383
is to overlook and see
what could have been missed
369
00:20:18,384 --> 00:20:19,884
and what can be re-approached.
370
00:20:19,885 --> 00:20:21,678
And now we're doing
that, and we're actually
371
00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:26,474
getting solutions and finding
key pieces that could have
372
00:20:26,475 --> 00:20:28,101
slipped through the cracks.
373
00:20:28,102 --> 00:20:32,147
I want to push to get this
done because, I mean, this is,
374
00:20:32,148 --> 00:20:33,982
like I said, it's
one of those things
375
00:20:33,983 --> 00:20:35,733
that you never thought
you'd be part of,
376
00:20:35,734 --> 00:20:37,318
and you're doing it.
377
00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:39,821
And to feel like you're making
headway and getting close
378
00:20:39,822 --> 00:20:43,992
to something, it's pretty...
379
00:20:43,993 --> 00:20:46,327
I mean, I can't
even describe it.
380
00:20:46,328 --> 00:20:49,414
You know, they see, OK,
we've got 10 blood spots.
381
00:20:49,415 --> 00:20:50,915
Let's test four of them.
382
00:20:50,916 --> 00:20:52,459
Four of them show
to be the victim.
383
00:20:52,460 --> 00:20:54,335
OK, we believe that
all to be the victim.
384
00:20:54,336 --> 00:20:56,588
I mean, that's a very
good educated guess.
385
00:20:56,589 --> 00:20:59,507
You know, and in that
time, in that moment,
386
00:20:59,508 --> 00:21:01,843
maybe that's sufficient
enough at the time.
387
00:21:01,844 --> 00:21:03,720
But when you get down
to a case such as this,
388
00:21:03,721 --> 00:21:08,516
where it's nitty gritty, like,
every blood spot matters.
389
00:21:08,517 --> 00:21:11,978
Every piece of DNA
matters because you're
390
00:21:11,979 --> 00:21:16,691
looking for that game-changing
piece that could put everything
391
00:21:16,692 --> 00:21:18,359
that we have together.
392
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,361
You know, that's why you
have to have these follow up
393
00:21:20,362 --> 00:21:22,113
meetings and explain
to the crime lab, hey,
394
00:21:22,114 --> 00:21:23,323
we need to revisit this.
395
00:21:23,324 --> 00:21:24,616
We need to resubmit everything.
396
00:21:24,617 --> 00:21:26,493
We need to figure out
what's been tested,
397
00:21:26,494 --> 00:21:29,412
what's not been tested so we
can make sure it's all tested.
398
00:21:29,413 --> 00:21:31,289
That way, nothing's missed.
399
00:21:31,290 --> 00:21:35,376
Now, Melissa was
found in January.
400
00:21:35,377 --> 00:21:38,171
And five to six months later,
401
00:21:38,172 --> 00:21:39,672
you had the Morgan
Nick case come up.
402
00:21:39,673 --> 00:21:44,844
So you've got the insane
amount of evidence
403
00:21:44,845 --> 00:21:46,971
being sent from our case.
404
00:21:46,972 --> 00:21:49,349
Then you turn
around, and you know,
405
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:52,894
they're still sending
stuff, I'm sure,
406
00:21:52,895 --> 00:21:54,854
on that case and constantly
following up with me and check.
407
00:21:54,855 --> 00:21:57,440
There's no telling how
many pieces of evidence
408
00:21:57,441 --> 00:21:59,317
they had sent in that case.
409
00:21:59,318 --> 00:22:00,819
I think that's what makes this
410
00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:03,029
a crucial time now is
that we are finding out
411
00:22:03,030 --> 00:22:04,614
that some didn't get tested.
412
00:22:04,615 --> 00:22:07,492
Let's test it now and see
what it does to open...
413
00:22:07,493 --> 00:22:09,619
open up this case.
414
00:22:09,620 --> 00:22:13,039
Have I told you the story,
when Morgan was actually taken,
415
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:17,460
that I was playing the
Little League game the night
416
00:22:17,461 --> 00:22:19,295
that she had gotten taken?
417
00:22:25,719 --> 00:22:27,053
I'll never forget.
418
00:22:27,054 --> 00:22:28,346
My mom just like,
stand right here.
419
00:22:28,347 --> 00:22:29,931
Do not move.
420
00:22:29,932 --> 00:22:32,809
And I was not to leave her side.
421
00:22:32,810 --> 00:22:35,228
And I remember
everybody kind of...
422
00:22:35,229 --> 00:22:36,646
it's hazy.
423
00:22:36,647 --> 00:22:38,523
But I remember, like,
people in a panic.
424
00:22:38,524 --> 00:22:40,275
You could just tell that
something was wrong.
425
00:22:40,276 --> 00:22:42,569
There wasn't any
celebrating after the game.
426
00:22:42,570 --> 00:22:44,654
There was... everybody
was getting in their cars
427
00:22:44,655 --> 00:22:46,155
and leaving.
428
00:22:46,156 --> 00:22:47,907
And I remember a lot of
police officers being there,
429
00:22:47,908 --> 00:22:49,200
but you didn't really...
430
00:22:49,201 --> 00:22:51,202
it wasn't until
probably the next day
431
00:22:51,203 --> 00:22:52,787
that it started
hitting home and you
432
00:22:52,788 --> 00:22:55,456
started hearing everything
that actually had taken place.
433
00:22:55,457 --> 00:22:57,250
Back then, nobody
really had cameras,
434
00:22:57,251 --> 00:22:59,127
and it was just a rare thing.
435
00:22:59,128 --> 00:23:02,463
But my mom had gotten a video
camera and had taken it to film
436
00:23:02,464 --> 00:23:03,965
our last game.
437
00:23:03,966 --> 00:23:08,887
And so the tape was turned
over to the police and...
438
00:23:18,856 --> 00:23:22,150
That's the last time
that Morgan was seen,
439
00:23:22,151 --> 00:23:24,193
in the background of that video.
440
00:23:24,194 --> 00:23:26,821
I guess I didn't realize
that your mom's was...
441
00:23:26,822 --> 00:23:29,407
it actually had her
in the background.
442
00:23:29,408 --> 00:23:31,326
But it also makes you think...
443
00:23:31,327 --> 00:23:32,869
look at the Witt case...
444
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:36,497
you know, I said earlier,
that can't happen to me.
445
00:23:36,498 --> 00:23:37,832
And that happened.
446
00:23:37,833 --> 00:23:39,375
And now here we are working it.
447
00:23:39,376 --> 00:23:42,837
And I mean, you just got to...
448
00:23:42,838 --> 00:23:46,507
it's wild how everything
falls in line.
449
00:23:59,396 --> 00:24:00,855
So Fort Smith PD
has worked with...
450
00:24:00,856 --> 00:24:03,107
is working with
the state crime lab
451
00:24:03,108 --> 00:24:06,486
to get the fingernail clippings
sent to a private lab.
452
00:24:06,487 --> 00:24:08,529
And that's that lab in Florida.
453
00:24:08,530 --> 00:24:13,368
And so the goal is, uh,
454
00:24:13,369 --> 00:24:17,455
to fully test the fingernails
for the touch DNA.
455
00:24:17,456 --> 00:24:20,041
So they're going to
use that private lab.
456
00:24:20,042 --> 00:24:23,002
And that private lab's...
you know, it's got the...
457
00:24:23,003 --> 00:24:27,548
the reputation of handling
touch DNA as their forte.
458
00:24:27,549 --> 00:24:32,345
And then the other thing
was the culmination
459
00:24:32,346 --> 00:24:36,224
of everyone's work is that
three of the blood spots
460
00:24:36,225 --> 00:24:39,102
were confirmed tested,
but not all of them.
461
00:24:39,103 --> 00:24:40,520
Gotcha.
462
00:24:40,521 --> 00:24:42,855
And so the state crime
lab is going to...
463
00:24:42,856 --> 00:24:44,482
they have the blood samples.
464
00:24:44,483 --> 00:24:46,859
They're going to
retest all of them,
465
00:24:46,860 --> 00:24:49,278
the three that have been tested
466
00:24:49,279 --> 00:24:51,823
and the seven or eight
that have not been.
467
00:24:51,824 --> 00:24:54,158
Any one of those blood spots...
468
00:24:54,159 --> 00:24:58,538
if she had struggled enough
to cause him to bleed any...
469
00:24:58,539 --> 00:25:02,709
that if any of those spots
could be our suspect,
470
00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:04,460
then we would...
471
00:25:04,461 --> 00:25:05,962
the only way to know is
to have them all tested.
472
00:25:05,963 --> 00:25:07,672
- Right.
- So that should be
473
00:25:07,673 --> 00:25:10,466
in the works now, to get
all the blood spots tested.
474
00:25:16,724 --> 00:25:18,182
Admittedly, in the
back of our minds,
475
00:25:18,183 --> 00:25:19,767
we're going to be
waiting for that answer,
476
00:25:19,768 --> 00:25:23,604
waiting for that lab result,
and guardedly hopeful
477
00:25:23,605 --> 00:25:26,441
that it gives us something
that we can act on.
478
00:25:26,442 --> 00:25:30,153
It's often not like what it
appears in TV shows and movies
479
00:25:30,154 --> 00:25:32,238
and things of that nature.
480
00:25:32,239 --> 00:25:33,614
A negative answer
is still an answer.
481
00:25:33,615 --> 00:25:36,617
So if, for some reason,
we get results back
482
00:25:36,618 --> 00:25:39,203
that say it's not this, well,
that just gives me motivation
483
00:25:39,204 --> 00:25:43,124
to keep pushing forward
to get some answers
484
00:25:43,125 --> 00:25:44,917
for something to get
a positive result.
485
00:25:44,918 --> 00:25:47,712
So I'm hopeful, but
at the same time,
486
00:25:47,713 --> 00:25:51,382
I'm realistic and understanding
that not every result
487
00:25:51,383 --> 00:25:53,092
is going to be positive.
488
00:25:53,093 --> 00:25:55,386
But that gives me the
motivation to keep trying
489
00:25:55,387 --> 00:25:57,388
to look for the right answer.
490
00:25:57,389 --> 00:25:59,599
The hope would be
that there's some form
491
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,186
of suspect DNA that can be found
492
00:26:03,187 --> 00:26:05,813
with her fingernail clippings.
493
00:26:22,706 --> 00:26:24,207
DNA Labs International.
494
00:26:24,208 --> 00:26:25,583
This is Christine.
495
00:26:25,584 --> 00:26:26,876
This is Detective Marion
with the Fort Smith
496
00:26:26,877 --> 00:26:28,294
Police Department.
497
00:26:28,295 --> 00:26:29,587
OK. Let me see if
she's in her office.
498
00:26:29,588 --> 00:26:31,047
Hold on one second.
499
00:26:31,048 --> 00:26:34,383
Thank you.
500
00:26:40,432 --> 00:26:43,142
It almost hurts to
have to sit and wait
501
00:26:43,143 --> 00:26:46,604
because it's something that,
you know, has never been done.
502
00:26:46,605 --> 00:26:49,774
And you just can't...
you want the results now.
503
00:26:49,775 --> 00:26:53,111
But once we get it all
sent off, 10 to 12 weeks,
504
00:26:53,112 --> 00:26:55,696
I mean, that kind of
crushes the excitement
505
00:26:55,697 --> 00:26:57,615
as far as the timeline.
506
00:26:57,616 --> 00:27:00,701
But it's still...
it's just because,
507
00:27:00,702 --> 00:27:05,206
you know, you want it now.
508
00:27:05,207 --> 00:27:07,083
In a case like
this, I would think
509
00:27:07,084 --> 00:27:10,962
that the fingernail clippings,
in a strangulation case,
510
00:27:10,963 --> 00:27:15,424
are going to be crucial
evidence because, you know,
511
00:27:15,425 --> 00:27:18,678
we know that Melissa fought
at the bowling alley,
512
00:27:18,679 --> 00:27:22,306
and most likely, she fought
when she was being strangled.
513
00:27:22,307 --> 00:27:26,769
And, you know, her fingernails
could hold potential evidence
514
00:27:26,770 --> 00:27:29,397
of the... of her killer.
515
00:27:29,398 --> 00:27:33,067
I mean, it's... to me,
I think that is a vital,
516
00:27:33,068 --> 00:27:36,404
vital piece of evidence
that has never been tested.
517
00:27:36,405 --> 00:27:38,614
And, you know, with all
the technology today,
518
00:27:38,615 --> 00:27:40,449
hopefully we can find...
519
00:27:40,450 --> 00:27:43,619
find some good answers with it.
520
00:28:10,522 --> 00:28:13,149
Well, there's a
lot of weight that
521
00:28:13,150 --> 00:28:14,650
goes into a call like this.
522
00:28:14,651 --> 00:28:17,695
You know, there's
hopes, especially with
523
00:28:17,696 --> 00:28:19,530
the community and family members
524
00:28:19,531 --> 00:28:22,283
and the department in general.
525
00:28:22,284 --> 00:28:24,744
We just don't know
whether that's
526
00:28:24,745 --> 00:28:27,622
going to be a good phone
call or a bad phone call
527
00:28:27,623 --> 00:28:29,123
or inconclusive.
528
00:28:29,124 --> 00:28:31,250
So either way, regardless
of the information,
529
00:28:31,251 --> 00:28:34,170
there's still going to
be a lot of work to do.
530
00:28:34,171 --> 00:28:37,214
So we're just hoping that
we get a good phone call.
531
00:28:41,929 --> 00:28:44,347
Hello. This is Deputy
Chief Thompson.
532
00:28:44,348 --> 00:28:45,806
Hi, Deputy Chief Thompson.
533
00:28:45,807 --> 00:28:47,642
This is Rachel from
DNA Labs International.
534
00:28:47,643 --> 00:28:49,060
- How are you?
- I'm great.
535
00:28:49,061 --> 00:28:50,853
How are you doing this morning?
536
00:28:50,854 --> 00:28:52,271
Good.
537
00:28:52,272 --> 00:28:53,981
I was just calling with
some preliminary results
538
00:28:53,982 --> 00:28:55,483
from your case.
539
00:28:55,484 --> 00:28:57,777
So as you know, we had extracts
540
00:28:57,778 --> 00:28:59,236
from the nail clippings,
541
00:28:59,237 --> 00:29:01,155
and then we also tested
the nail clippings
542
00:29:01,156 --> 00:29:03,574
using our sponge shell method.
543
00:29:03,575 --> 00:29:07,578
So looking at the extracts,
we re-quantified them.
544
00:29:07,579 --> 00:29:09,455
And although there
is plenty of DNA
545
00:29:09,456 --> 00:29:12,083
present to move forward
with DNA profiling,
546
00:29:12,084 --> 00:29:14,835
there was no male DNA detected.
547
00:29:14,836 --> 00:29:16,671
OK.
548
00:29:16,672 --> 00:29:19,715
So we also retest
them, as I said,
549
00:29:19,716 --> 00:29:21,425
using our sponge shell method.
550
00:29:21,426 --> 00:29:23,177
And again, although
there's plenty
551
00:29:23,178 --> 00:29:25,888
of DNA to move forward
for DNA profiling,
552
00:29:25,889 --> 00:29:29,850
no male DNA was detected.
553
00:29:29,851 --> 00:29:31,394
I have a question for you guys.
554
00:29:31,395 --> 00:29:33,104
So we do have two options.
555
00:29:33,105 --> 00:29:35,606
We could stop testing
at this point,
556
00:29:35,607 --> 00:29:38,943
or we could still move
forward with DNA profiling.
557
00:29:38,944 --> 00:29:41,570
We don't necessarily know
what happened to Melissa.
558
00:29:41,571 --> 00:29:45,116
So it is possible we could
still yield a DNA profile that
559
00:29:45,117 --> 00:29:47,618
could have information,
or we could also just
560
00:29:47,619 --> 00:29:49,620
pause at this point
and move forward
561
00:29:49,621 --> 00:29:52,206
with some of the other
items that we talked about.
562
00:29:52,207 --> 00:29:55,126
Do we think that the DNA
profile could be hers,
563
00:29:55,127 --> 00:29:59,422
or do we think that it's...
is there a way to test that?
564
00:29:59,423 --> 00:30:01,132
It could be just hers.
565
00:30:01,133 --> 00:30:03,843
It could also be her
and another female,
566
00:30:03,844 --> 00:30:06,512
or it's also possible that
there could be a really
567
00:30:06,513 --> 00:30:08,806
low-level male that's
not being picked up
568
00:30:08,807 --> 00:30:10,474
with quantification.
569
00:30:10,475 --> 00:30:12,518
But the only way to
be able to detect that
570
00:30:12,519 --> 00:30:15,646
would probably be doing
next-generation sequencing,
571
00:30:15,647 --> 00:30:17,189
which is much more sensitive.
572
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:18,607
OK.
573
00:30:18,608 --> 00:30:20,192
Do you want us to issue a report
574
00:30:20,193 --> 00:30:22,236
at this time on what
we've done so far,
575
00:30:22,237 --> 00:30:23,571
or do you want us to hold off?
576
00:30:23,572 --> 00:30:25,114
Yeah, if you could
issue a report
577
00:30:25,115 --> 00:30:27,033
and send it to us, that
way we can look at that.
578
00:30:27,034 --> 00:30:30,161
And then we can discuss
it and go from there.
579
00:30:30,162 --> 00:30:31,787
OK, sounds good.
Thank you, gentlemen.
580
00:30:31,788 --> 00:30:33,080
Have a good day.
581
00:30:33,081 --> 00:30:36,167
All right. Thank you.
582
00:30:36,168 --> 00:30:39,003
Yeah, that's definitely
disappointing.
583
00:30:39,004 --> 00:30:41,964
Disappointing news.
584
00:30:41,965 --> 00:30:46,260
But I think bring
that report and...
585
00:30:46,261 --> 00:30:48,471
you know, to the
team and discuss
586
00:30:48,472 --> 00:30:50,097
what we want to do from there.
587
00:30:50,098 --> 00:30:53,100
But we'll just have to look
and see how much further
588
00:30:53,101 --> 00:30:54,852
we want to try to go with it.
589
00:30:54,853 --> 00:30:56,354
Yeah.
590
00:30:59,483 --> 00:31:03,152
I don't think he's
going to answer, so...
591
00:31:03,153 --> 00:31:05,821
Your call has been
forwarded to voicemail.
592
00:31:05,822 --> 00:31:07,948
Yeah, no luck.
593
00:31:07,949 --> 00:31:10,576
Brad's on vacation now.
594
00:31:10,577 --> 00:31:15,623
I have to get in touch with him
some other time, it looks like.
595
00:31:26,635 --> 00:31:29,678
I remember interviewing
people and people
596
00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:33,307
saying this was such a safe and
quiet and friendly community.
597
00:31:33,308 --> 00:31:35,434
This is shocking that
something like this
598
00:31:35,435 --> 00:31:37,019
has happened in our town.
599
00:31:37,020 --> 00:31:41,024
And I think that's why the
town mobilized like it did.
600
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,821
But as far as violent crime
or abductions or anything
601
00:31:46,822 --> 00:31:49,073
like that, I mean,
that was not going on
602
00:31:49,074 --> 00:31:52,034
when I was there, you
know, in the mid '90s.
603
00:31:52,035 --> 00:31:56,330
It wasn't until this abduction
occurred with Melissa Witt
604
00:31:56,331 --> 00:31:59,708
that it just, it shook
that community to its core.
605
00:31:59,709 --> 00:32:01,252
Because when we walked
up here, I saw...
606
00:32:01,253 --> 00:32:02,753
I don't even think there was a,
607
00:32:02,754 --> 00:32:04,797
we've got to find who did
this, in the beginning.
608
00:32:04,798 --> 00:32:06,340
It was more like, well,
she's got to be somewhere,
609
00:32:06,341 --> 00:32:09,927
and we've got to find her.
610
00:32:13,598 --> 00:32:15,516
I think Melissa's case
611
00:32:15,517 --> 00:32:17,017
is important to the community.
612
00:32:17,018 --> 00:32:21,522
Someone committed
this horrible crime.
613
00:32:21,523 --> 00:32:23,732
Someone needs to be
brought to justice.
614
00:32:23,733 --> 00:32:26,527
And even if this person
who did this to Missy...
615
00:32:26,528 --> 00:32:28,904
if they're deceased,
we still want
616
00:32:28,905 --> 00:32:31,782
to be able to identify and make
sure that nothing like this
617
00:32:31,783 --> 00:32:33,200
could ever happen again.
618
00:32:33,201 --> 00:32:35,077
So I think that's
kind of what drives me
619
00:32:35,078 --> 00:32:38,038
and the fellow detectives
is you have this cold case
620
00:32:38,039 --> 00:32:41,000
that hasn't been solved,
we have plenty of evidence,
621
00:32:41,001 --> 00:32:43,460
And just going back
through all that evidence
622
00:32:43,461 --> 00:32:45,963
and statements that were made...
623
00:32:45,964 --> 00:32:50,426
see if we could find a link or
something that wasn't followed
624
00:32:50,427 --> 00:32:53,679
through with all the
way and maybe rule out
625
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,682
some of the people that
were already investigated,
626
00:32:56,683 --> 00:32:59,935
but kind of left in limbo
so we could definitely
627
00:32:59,936 --> 00:33:03,647
cross them off the list.
628
00:33:03,648 --> 00:33:06,233
It's 29 years later,
almost 30 years later.
629
00:33:06,234 --> 00:33:08,903
And if there's
anything, anything that
630
00:33:08,904 --> 00:33:13,199
covering her story today can
do to help bring closure...
631
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,702
um, you know, unfortunately,
Mary Ann has left us.
632
00:33:16,703 --> 00:33:18,871
She's passed away.
633
00:33:18,872 --> 00:33:21,832
And that breaks my heart
to think that she passed
634
00:33:21,833 --> 00:33:24,210
never knowing what
happened to her daughter,
635
00:33:24,211 --> 00:33:29,090
and that she lived all
those years without knowing.
636
00:33:30,842 --> 00:33:35,471
Even the day that they
found Melissa's body
637
00:33:35,472 --> 00:33:38,557
and we went to her home and...
638
00:33:38,558 --> 00:33:40,142
she invited us in.
639
00:33:40,143 --> 00:33:42,269
You know, her friends and
family were showing up.
640
00:33:42,270 --> 00:33:43,771
Melissa's friends were there.
641
00:33:43,772 --> 00:33:45,522
She invited us into her home.
642
00:33:45,523 --> 00:33:51,237
And I just said, Mary Ann,
take this time for privacy.
643
00:33:51,238 --> 00:33:55,157
We'll report from outside.
644
00:33:55,158 --> 00:33:58,077
You need your... I had
so much respect for her
645
00:33:58,078 --> 00:34:00,955
and admiration for
her on how she handled
646
00:34:00,956 --> 00:34:03,082
herself through all of this.
647
00:34:03,083 --> 00:34:07,253
And in her memory and
honor and Missy's,
648
00:34:07,254 --> 00:34:10,172
if there's anything that we
could do to put out there
649
00:34:10,173 --> 00:34:16,387
that could bring either
justice or closure to this...
650
00:34:16,388 --> 00:34:18,430
I guess it would
make us feel better.
651
00:34:18,431 --> 00:34:19,723
I know she's with Missy now.
652
00:34:19,724 --> 00:34:21,100
You know, I know
they're together.
653
00:34:21,101 --> 00:34:23,102
I know she knows
what happened now.
654
00:34:23,103 --> 00:34:25,104
And that's the only thing
that honestly brings me
655
00:34:25,105 --> 00:34:27,022
consolation is that...
656
00:34:27,023 --> 00:34:28,983
is that I know they're together.
657
00:34:33,488 --> 00:34:36,865
There's so much to
be... to review,
658
00:34:36,866 --> 00:34:39,576
so much information to go over,
659
00:34:39,577 --> 00:34:41,412
boxes of materials
to go through.
660
00:34:41,413 --> 00:34:44,039
One person is easily
overwhelmed by that.
661
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,459
But if you get a group
of investigators that
662
00:34:47,460 --> 00:34:49,878
are interested and will
spend a little bit of time
663
00:34:49,879 --> 00:34:52,840
individually and take a
piece of the investigation,
664
00:34:52,841 --> 00:34:56,760
then it's a force multiplier
to enhance the ability
665
00:34:56,761 --> 00:34:59,138
of the group to further
the investigation,
666
00:34:59,139 --> 00:35:03,434
to maybe get some clarity,
eliminate suspects,
667
00:35:03,435 --> 00:35:08,188
hopefully, theoretically,
conclude what happened
668
00:35:08,189 --> 00:35:10,482
and, you know, potentially
convict someone
669
00:35:10,483 --> 00:35:13,736
or at least close the case.
670
00:35:13,737 --> 00:35:16,530
I don't know how guys
and gals do this job
671
00:35:16,531 --> 00:35:19,199
without faith as a central
element to it because you
672
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,329
could quickly lose your
hope, faith in all things.
673
00:35:23,330 --> 00:35:27,124
But you just...
674
00:35:27,125 --> 00:35:29,376
I've got on the back
of my work phone
675
00:35:29,377 --> 00:35:32,004
that from the Gospel of John
676
00:35:32,005 --> 00:35:34,214
just to be a light
in the darkness.
677
00:35:34,215 --> 00:35:36,300
Coping with it, it's just a
matter of getting in there
678
00:35:36,301 --> 00:35:37,926
and realizing that
you've been...
679
00:35:37,927 --> 00:35:43,349
it's truly an honor to
get to do what we do,
680
00:35:43,350 --> 00:35:47,436
to shine light on these
situations and to help...
681
00:35:47,437 --> 00:35:49,813
maybe help deliver people
from them and help them
682
00:35:49,814 --> 00:35:52,441
find their way out.
683
00:35:52,442 --> 00:35:54,610
From the night
that she was taken
684
00:35:54,611 --> 00:35:57,488
and seeing how everything
played out in the community,
685
00:35:57,489 --> 00:36:00,407
how it affected the
family, how it affected
686
00:36:00,408 --> 00:36:01,992
law enforcement, just...
687
00:36:01,993 --> 00:36:06,246
and watching that the entire
time you're growing up
688
00:36:06,247 --> 00:36:08,332
and then being part of
this cold case group
689
00:36:08,333 --> 00:36:12,961
that is on the other end
of it working the case,
690
00:36:12,962 --> 00:36:15,506
and seeing all the work
that's gone into it...
691
00:36:15,507 --> 00:36:19,051
I mean, it's very surreal.
692
00:36:19,052 --> 00:36:21,220
But then also too, we
got to be mindful of,
693
00:36:21,221 --> 00:36:24,014
you know, however
many years left
694
00:36:24,015 --> 00:36:27,768
we have in law enforcement,
what we do today is extremely
695
00:36:27,769 --> 00:36:31,939
important because if we're
not doing it right now,
696
00:36:31,940 --> 00:36:33,482
the right way...
697
00:36:33,483 --> 00:36:36,360
and say we don't solve the
case and it gets passed on
698
00:36:36,361 --> 00:36:38,028
to the next detective,
699
00:36:38,029 --> 00:36:40,489
you know, he's going
to look at what we did
700
00:36:40,490 --> 00:36:45,160
and then have to go off of our
notes, what we've discovered,
701
00:36:45,161 --> 00:36:49,081
you know, and some day, find
a piece that we're missing,
702
00:36:49,082 --> 00:36:52,126
add it to the rest of
the case, and solve it.
703
00:36:52,127 --> 00:36:54,086
I mean, everybody plays a part.
704
00:36:54,087 --> 00:36:56,588
So we're hopeful
we solve the case
705
00:36:56,589 --> 00:36:58,799
or get a closure on that end.
706
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,802
But if we don't, we're
still laying the foundation
707
00:37:01,803 --> 00:37:03,929
or climbing the
ladder to whoever
708
00:37:03,930 --> 00:37:07,015
is able to solve that case.
709
00:37:07,016 --> 00:37:09,101
You know, Melissa
Witt's case, where,
710
00:37:09,102 --> 00:37:10,936
you know, her family's deceased,
711
00:37:10,937 --> 00:37:12,771
and a person would say, well,
712
00:37:12,772 --> 00:37:14,398
what closure are you
giving to anyone?
713
00:37:14,399 --> 00:37:16,316
Well, it doesn't matter in
the grand scheme of things,
714
00:37:16,317 --> 00:37:19,862
because, you know,
it's important
715
00:37:19,863 --> 00:37:22,239
to get justice for people.
716
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:25,033
It's important for...
717
00:37:25,034 --> 00:37:28,620
it gets to me in a way
because I think of...
718
00:37:28,621 --> 00:37:30,289
and maybe it's wrong,
but I think of, like,
719
00:37:30,290 --> 00:37:32,291
Melissa Witt as a...
720
00:37:32,292 --> 00:37:37,671
she was a 19-year-old girl
who did nothing wrong.
721
00:37:37,672 --> 00:37:40,215
And her last hours on this Earth
722
00:37:40,216 --> 00:37:44,261
were probably the most horrific
a person can experience.
723
00:37:44,262 --> 00:37:46,889
And that 19-year-old
Melissa Witt
724
00:37:46,890 --> 00:37:50,100
deserves justice and deserves
our best effort of justice.
725
00:37:50,101 --> 00:37:53,771
Even if we fail, at least
we give it our best effort
726
00:37:53,772 --> 00:37:56,356
and do the best we
can to get her justice
727
00:37:56,357 --> 00:37:57,983
because that's what
she deserved then.
728
00:37:57,984 --> 00:37:59,610
She deserves it now.
729
00:37:59,611 --> 00:38:02,863
You know, any victim of that
kind of crime deserves it.
730
00:38:02,864 --> 00:38:04,823
And if you don't have
a heart towards that,
731
00:38:04,824 --> 00:38:07,284
then you have no conscience.
732
00:38:19,798 --> 00:38:22,799
It was December,
so you never know.
733
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,219
I mean, she could
have fought back,
734
00:38:25,220 --> 00:38:28,555
and the killer could have had a
long-sleeve jacket on or shirt
735
00:38:28,556 --> 00:38:31,809
or, you know, something
like that where
736
00:38:31,810 --> 00:38:33,936
she just was not able
to collect that DNA
737
00:38:33,937 --> 00:38:35,938
under her fingernails.
738
00:38:35,939 --> 00:38:37,815
Melissa was unfortunately
out in the elements
739
00:38:37,816 --> 00:38:41,902
for several days and exposed to,
740
00:38:41,903 --> 00:38:46,365
you know, the sun, the
snow, the cold weather,
741
00:38:46,366 --> 00:38:48,742
things like that, wildlife.
742
00:38:48,743 --> 00:38:50,327
When you put all
that into account,
743
00:38:50,328 --> 00:38:53,497
you know, DNA starts to
deteriorate rather quickly.
744
00:38:53,498 --> 00:38:57,125
You know, when we get assigned
these cases, even new cases,
745
00:38:57,126 --> 00:38:58,835
we become involved in them.
746
00:38:58,836 --> 00:39:02,381
I mean, you meet with these
people, you speak with them.
747
00:39:02,382 --> 00:39:03,799
And just like in
this case, you know,
748
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,592
we've talked about
Melissa's diary
749
00:39:05,593 --> 00:39:09,263
and how personal it
was and how involved
750
00:39:09,264 --> 00:39:11,473
and how real it makes it.
751
00:39:11,474 --> 00:39:13,767
It's almost like you're
entering into her world.
752
00:39:13,768 --> 00:39:16,728
We had numerous blood spots
located in the bowling alley
753
00:39:16,729 --> 00:39:19,064
that we know all
haven't been tested.
754
00:39:19,065 --> 00:39:22,859
So we got to just kind of
755
00:39:22,860 --> 00:39:25,237
move forward and
hope for the best
756
00:39:25,238 --> 00:39:27,656
with the evidence
that we have and
757
00:39:27,657 --> 00:39:29,783
start looking at
the next suspect.
758
00:39:29,784 --> 00:39:32,578
She was walking from her
job at Hardee's on Waldron
759
00:39:32,579 --> 00:39:35,622
in Fort Smith when she
was approached by a man
760
00:39:35,623 --> 00:39:37,207
who tried to abduct her.
761
00:39:37,208 --> 00:39:40,419
That man was allegedly
Dustin Markel.
762
00:39:40,420 --> 00:39:43,213
Within a minute or two, he had
grabbed me by my right arm,
763
00:39:43,214 --> 00:39:45,883
and I jerked away.
764
00:39:45,884 --> 00:39:47,467
He had very lengthy
criminal history,
765
00:39:47,468 --> 00:39:51,388
including sexual assaults,
attempted rapes, rapes.
766
00:39:51,389 --> 00:39:53,682
You know, he had
attempted a kidnapping
767
00:39:53,683 --> 00:39:56,727
at Central Mall from a lady that
768
00:39:56,728 --> 00:39:58,645
was luckily able to escape.
769
00:39:58,646 --> 00:40:03,108
And, you know, the day
after Melissa was abducted,
770
00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:07,654
this individual left the
area and left the state.
771
00:40:07,655 --> 00:40:10,198
You know, there's, like
I said, several people
772
00:40:10,199 --> 00:40:12,409
in this case file, and
we've just kind of scratched
773
00:40:12,410 --> 00:40:14,161
the surface of it.
774
00:40:14,162 --> 00:40:19,124
So we'll keep pushing until we
get the results that we want.
60828
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