All language subtitles for At.Witts.End.The.Hunt.for.a.Killer.S01E03.1080p.WEB.h264-EDITH

[somber music]

♪ ♪

[indistinct chatter]

ROB: There's just such
a potential for more victims,

such a potential for unknowns.

And with Arkansas
and Oklahoma being--

the border being
close proximity to his home,

I mean, there could be missing
person from other states.

You just don't know.

I mean, you can assume
a lot of things

and sensationalize
what that can mean.

Regardless, we had to dig
each one of those things up

and turn them over
and dig around underneath them

and make sure there wasn't
anything else there.

REUBEN: We bring
the bulldozer in.

They're pulling up
all these tombstones.

And, I mean,
I think we had FBI personnel,

like, trying to figure out
who they were,

where they belonged to,
who their family members were,

just trying to figure out
who these people were.

ROB: He found one of them.

He found the same person,
but a different headstone,

like it was a newer one.

So this one is an older one.

So this one's singular.

The other one looks like
it was a husband and wife,

but the same date
and everything.

REUBEN: We ultimately found
out that they were just--

let's say somebody died
and there was a mistake

in the tombstone,
they would just throw that one

out in that field, and then
they would correct the problem

and give the person
a new tombstone.

♪ ♪

- [sighs]

[whirring]

[soft dramatic music]

♪ ♪

[dramatic music]

♪ ♪

ROB: So the first search
we did of Vines' property

was mostly Alma PD
and Morgan Nick.

We shift gears
to the Melissa Witt case

in regard to Charlie Vines
and in regard to our efforts

because we had run
so much to ground

on the Morgan Nick case.

With that, there was an area
above Charlie Vines' property

where witnesses said
he frequented.

It was just across the road.

It was a wooded area.

We had found some canines,

cadaver dogs,
and cadaver dogs--

in my organization,
there's a widespread opinion--

I think some people
have experienced

great cadaver dogs,
some not so great.

We found a good team
that, incidentally, we tested.

And--because I didn't want
to just go into it,

just, "OK, maybe they're good,
we'll find out."

So we tested these canines.

♪ ♪

REUBEN: This is an experiment
to see what a true indication

of a dog locating a body
looks like.

Up until now, we've never seen
a true indication,

but we're in a spot
where we know

there are actual bodies
buried here.

And we're just confirming
that the dogs are working.

There's a change in behavior
of the dog

that catches
the handler's attention,

meaning that there is a body
in the area.

So for this dog,
her indicator is a bark.

So she just barked,
which means she just found--

or smelled the presence of some
type of human decomposition.

The other dog is a sit.

So he'll sit in the spot.

♪ ♪

After the dogs hit
on the remains

at the Civil War site,

we went to Melissa Witt's
dumping site

where her body was dumped.

ROB: The Working Group,
you know, Fort Smith PD

and FBI,

went out to the dump site
of Melissa Witt.

And this was 27 years later
after she had been located.

The test was, was what would
we see if we ran the dogs

on this site where
decomposition had happened,

what would that even look like?

And it was,
admittedly, just a test

to s--out of curiosity.

And what we did was,
we had them start at a point

where they wouldn't know if
they were even going to cross

a crime scene of any sort.

So the canine
and their handlers

did not know anything
about what they were doing

at that point other than,
you know,

just that we wanted
their dogs ran.

♪ ♪

[barking]

♪ ♪

- [chuckles]

ROB: The canines hit
at the spot

where Melissa Witt's body
was found.

- It's extremely relevant
that her--

that the dogs hit
in that location

because it had been
roughly 20-something years

since her body was there.

ROB: With that,
there was an area

above Charlie Vines' property

where witnesses said
he frequented.

It was just across the road.

It was a wooded area.

We had them check the area
that Charlie Vines frequented,

the property across from his.

♪ ♪

That leads us to say,
at least--

at least something was there
that decomposed

that the dogs are recognizing.

Could it be a body buried
or could it be a body

decomposed there for a period
and was moved?

Or could it be some items
of the body had decomposition

on it and were there?

- Was her body there
at some point?

Was she moved to this location?

Were her clothes there?

It just gives you
a greater idea

of potentially
what could have happened.

[barking]

♪ ♪

ROB: We subsequently searched
the area with metal detectors,

and then, with a backhoe,
scraped it down to bedrock

and didn't find anything.

So the thought would be that--

that something was
placed there

for a period of time that
gave the same decomposition

that a canine would alert on.

We don't have answers,
but that's what

that would at least indicate.

♪ ♪

Charlie Vines could have put--

could have put someone there.

An unknown victim
that we just aren't aware of.

Or possibly something
of Melissa Witt's,

whether it be her clothes
or something that--that--

that maintained
a decomposition scent

or something that caused
those dogs to hit.

I mean, it's gonna be hard
to determine whether it was

anything of Melissa
or another person,

but the belief would be that--

that since Charlie
frequented that area,

that was his hilltop--

he was even territorial with
his neighbors on that hilltop--

and that a canine cadaver dog
hits there,

that--that I would be confident
that there was some human flesh

that decomposed
on that hill in that spot.

[eerie music]

♪ ♪

- There was a Cambridge brand
cigarette with filter

and a sample
from a Mountain Dew can.

This was evidence submitted.

The date of the report
is 8 of 2000.

But what--

JAY: Is there anything
developed off of those?

- Well, that's
what's interesting.

♪ ♪

What catches your attention is,

is, you know,
it talks about these--

it says a mattress cover,

a mattress fabric E1, E2,
LL, LL.

But there's conclusions here.

And here's where
it's interesting.

"K2, comma, Charles Vines

"is excluded
as being a contributor

to the DNA identified
on LL-1, number 1,"

which is the cigarette filter.

JAY: Hmm.

- So doesn't that tell us
there's DNA identified?

- Absolutely.

- So a component of saliva
was identified on LL-1 1,

which is that cigarette.
JAY: Cigarette butt.

ROB: LL-1 13.

- It says no DNA was found
on LL-1 13 here,

that Mountain Dew can.

ROB: But it says "A component
of saliva was identified

on the Mountain Dew can
and the--"

so maybe it was the cigarette

that they were able to get
DNA from,

but not the Mountain Dew can.

- That's what it reads like,
yeah.

ROB: All right, if these are--
if these are the items found

at her body dump site, then--

and they just
weren't tested then,

but they were tested
5 and 2000, that's fine

because we still
potentially have

a DNA profile of a suspect.

JAY: Yeah.

ROB: But for the sake
of a potential conviction,

it's gonna be essential
that we show the origin

and chain of custody from its
first being found, this--

this item, L1, number 1.

- Yeah.

ROB: If--if it becomes
something that's prosecutable.

Because if it's--
if it's--if it's--

I hate to even say it
because I jinx myself

and then later we find
it's cigarettes

from some random car
or something.

But if it's the cigarette butts
that were found in her--

near her body dump site
and DNA is on it,

that might be enough to get
a prosecutor to initiate

a prosecution on him.

♪ ♪

And so I know in 2000,
Charlie Vines was arrested

and there was a big search
warrant done on his house.

So I think when they realized
he was responsible

for a lot of these in the area,
then they ran his DNA

against Melissa Witt case DNA.

That Cambridge LL-1 number 1

is a Cambridge brand cigarette
with filter

that I think was found

at the body dump site
of Melissa Witt.

It's excluding Charlie Vines as
being a contributor to the DNA,

so there's got to be
a DNA profile.

And it's a state crime
laboratory report,

so that's another priority to
find out that individual piece,

what DNA profile it is

because it very well could be
our suspect.

I'd hate to go down
this DNA path

and go, oh,
that turned out to be--

that was found to be
the hunter that found the body.

We need to know that
so we don't get our hopes up,

and so we also don't spend
too much time

wasting on a rabbit hole.

TECHNICIAN:
Rob, did they do any

nail scrapings from her
back then?

- Yes, and it says they're
retained at the crime lab.

PERSON: Were they ever tested?

I don't know if that had been
common procedure back then,

but...

- And I saw some
nail clippings in evidence.

REUBEN:
It said that they clipped them

and then they retained them
for evidence.

JAY: I mean, obviously,
we gotta assume

some type of struggle ensued.

And--I mean, and today, 2023,
that's the first go-to for DNA.

ROB: I think that another good
priority would be to find out

where those nail clippings are
and--and see

if they've been DNA-tested.

And if they have been,
our lab won't take it,

but those private labs
that rebuild DNA will.

And the only difference
will be,

is there'll be a cost
of some sort,

but might get us
a suspect profile.

So I agree, that's a good--
a good avenue

to start working on as well.

I think an overall chart
of just saying all that

will be helpful to everyone.

Like, OK, here's finally
a list of everything,

and we'll kind of start
on, like--

the crime scene
of the abduction site.

Here's all these items,
here's what's been processed.

And if we find
anything that hasn't--

you know, a spot of blood
or something that hasn't,

that'll be priority to get
off to the lab and tested.

[suspenseful music]

♪ ♪

JAY: Do--are we saving Travis
or do we want to just

dive right headlong into him?

ROB: Yeah, let's just go ahead.

JAY: Travis grew up in the area
where Melissa's body is found.

His family runs
a Baptist church camp

that is approximately
maybe a half-mile

to a mile from where
Melissa's body was found

up near Turner Bend.

He has a--he has a lot
of connections to that area.

So I'm hoping we can
get a map with the--

the Baptist camp.

And there's--

PERSON: Why the Baptist camp?

JAY: Because his family--
he actually--

on one of his arrests
in Florida,

he listed that Baptist camp
in Franklin County

as his home address.

His family was--
was very connected to that.

I believe they worked there.

There was a tip they got called
in to you guys years later.

Someone had passed away
that the family

was trying to protect
because there was incest.

And once that grandma
or mom passed away,

they felt like
they could finally talk

about Travis openly.

And so they called in the tip.

They felt Travis was
probably involved.

Travis has--has been arrested
in Florida, Arizona,

South Carolina, Minnesota,

and was arrested in Colorado

three months
after this tip comes in

for a series of things,

several of which
were very violent.

South Carolina was a burglary
when he was a young man.

Arizona was
a rape investigation

that I believe
no charges were filed on.

In Minnesota,
an attempted murder charge

in which he stabbed
a gentleman in the neck

around a liquor store.

He was acquitted by that--
that Minnesota jury.

He was released from the jail
in Minneapolis, Minnesota,

on or around October 1, 1994.

And he said he then began
to--to hitchhike south.

He ended up in New Orleans.
We know that.

He was arrested
by the New Orleans PD

either on New Year's Eve
or New Year's Day of '94

or January 1, '95,
by his own admission.

He can account for having
hitchhiked to Kansas City

where he remembered
that he requested

a wire transfer
from his father,

contacted his dad.

But he can't remember--

he uses the phrase
that's always a red flag

when I'm an investigator.

In their documents, he says,

"Next thing I know,
I was in New Orleans."

And anytime I hear that phrase,

I'm cuing in
to what's being said

because that's usually--

there's usually a lot to unpack
when somebody says,

"Next thing I know."

He couldn't recall
how he got to New Orleans.

He--he did deny that he
ever came through this area,

but he had no details,
at least that are documented,

that he could provide
to Detective Reese.

Detective Reese noted that--
that he had

very specific memories
of a lot of things,

and seemed to have
a really good memory

about certain events,
but found it noteworthy

that he couldn't recall
how he got to New Orleans

and what route he took aside
from stopping in Kansas City.

But then, of course,
the big break came

in Colorado when--
when he was arrested

by the Boulder County
Sheriff's Office

later that year.

[tense music]

♪ ♪

On--on the night
in question, the--

the victim had been
at a mall in that area.

She was speaking
with a group of men.

Two other men came
to speak with her.

At that point, one of them
would--would be Travis Crouch.

The other gentleman
by the name of Coyote.

They struck up a conversation,
decided then that they would go

to a local convenience store.

They asked her for a ride.

She took them
to a convenience store.

At that convenience store,
Coyote leaves.

We later learned
that Coyote leaves

because he saw Travis

buying condoms
inside that store,

and he knew
what was going to happen.

So he--he left that scene.

Travis came back to the car

from the convenience store
with--with some beer

and asked her to go driving
through the canyon.

So she takes him up,
agrees to go drive

up to the canyon with him.

They get up to--

out west of Boulder
and get in a pull-off.

And there, he begins to,
four separate ways,

sexually assault
and rape her in pretty--

it was a pretty bad scene
for sure.

After they had parked
and Travis had drank some beer

and smoked a cigarette,
Travis stated,

"Take your dress off."

The victim told Travis
that she was having

her period at this time.

Travis told her
to take that thing out,

meaning the tampon.

She stated that he was using
an angry voice

and that he would "resort
to hurt her if he had to."

Travis moved her
to the front of her vehicle

and placed his hands
on her shoulder

and laid her on the hood
of the vehicle.

♪ ♪

She stated that they had
sexual intercourse.

She stated when he was about
to finish, he pulled out.

She told me that Travis began
to masturbate in front of her,

which was in front
of the vehicle.

Travis lit a cigarette.

The victim said that Travis
reached into his backpack

and pulled an item
out of the backpack.

She said that she thought
it was either a knife

or pliers.

She started to cry
and she told Travis,

"Don't hurt me,
don't hurt me."

He got behind her.

She stated that at this point,
they had anal intercourse.

She also informed me
that she tried not to scream

because she was afraid
of being hit.

I asked her
if she had been struck.

She stated that she had.

Approximately
ten minutes later,

he grabbed her head
and forced her head back down

to have oral sex.

She stated that while
they were having oral sex,

he fell asleep.

She was very scared
and she was thinking

that maybe she could try
to leave.

However, she felt
that Travis awoke

and she got caught,
that he would kill her.

She stated that another option
that she was thinking

was just to wait
and see what would happen

when Travis woke up.

She stated that approximately
after this, five minutes,

that his cigarette fell
and landed on him

and woke up.

At this point,
Travis again grabbed her head

and forced her
to give him oral sex.

Again, he fell asleep.

The victim stated
that she let him sleep

for a couple of minutes to see
if he would awaken again.

She got her coat
from the front passenger side

floor of the vehicle
and got out of the vehicle.

♪ ♪

He made a mistake.

He drank to the point
that he passed out in the seat.

She saw an opportunity
to escape, so she did.

She took off
back to the main road,

hoping to find a car.

She remembers
that the first car drove past

and didn't help her.

Second car did stop,
loaded her up.

She said, "Take me
to the police, please.

I've been raped."

She was able to provide
a description

to the University of Colorado
officer

who worked with the Boulder
County Sheriff's Office

to figure out
where this car was,

what the car looked like.

They started looking for it in
the area out west of Boulder.

They find the car.

They get
their officers arranged

and they do a felony takedown

because they see a gentleman
in the car.

Travis is still in the car
when they get to it.

They arrest him on suspicion
of sexual assault.

Transport him
to the Boulder County Jail.

They're going
back and forth initially

about when to interview him.

The initial detective
who went to interview him

decided it was more important
right that second

to go to the crime scene
and thoroughly process it

using things like
alternative light sources

and whatnot.

The officers who had
arrested him noticed

blood on his hands, which he--

he actually told them
would be her menstrual blood.

So they rightly covered
his hands in a paper bag

to try to preserve
that evidence.

He was--he became,
according to reports,

extremely combative.

Once he--the closer he got
to the jail,

the more combative he became.

By the time the detective
arrived at Boulder County Jail,

the reports read
that he had already taken

all the paper off.

And so when that
investigator attempted

to collect any evidence
from him,

all the blood was already gone
from his hands.

Travis was arrested and charged

and ultimately convicted
for this rape.

That jury sentenced him
to 48 to 64 years

in the Colorado prison.

[eerie music]

♪ ♪

Detective Reese and two others

went to Colorado
to interview Travis Crouch.

When they got back, somehow,
the local media had learned

that they had gone to Colorado
to interview somebody.

At that time, our local media
asked for the name

of who they went to interview.

They said that was still a--

I forget the exact verbiage
they used--

essentially
a person of interest,

so they weren't gonna
release that.

Well, they called Colorado

and got the information
from Colorado.

So there was a media release
on the Travis Crouch interview.

Travis Crouch's mother
immediately contacts the media,

said, "No, he was not here,
that's not true."

So they run that--
that media link.

The following day or days,
a person calls and says,

"I know she was lying.

He absolutely was in this area
at that time."

The moral of the story
with her was,

she said he was absolutely

in this area around that time,
and she had

some very specific details.

She recalled that on Labor Day
of 1994,

her dog had puppies.

And at either six
or eight weeks of age,

depending on when we asked her,

it was time to start
giving those puppies away,

sometime in November.

She's down to one last puppy
that had had an injury

and had a--had kind of
a deformity and some issues.

She's working
at the Turner Bend store,

is what she called it.

And Travis Crouch
comes in the store

wanting to get the puppy
for his brother.

And she has some very specific
memories of this, both back--

back in '97,
when she made her statement,

and a few months ago
when I interviewed her again,

that he arrived
in his mother's brown car.

They had a long conversation
about, you know,

did he know who her dad is?

And she did.
She knew Roger.

She still knows Roger
very well.

She knew he was Travis.

They talked about the fact
that her daughter was pregnant

and gonna be giving birth
in January of '95.

And that hasn't changed at all.

Some time around November '94,
Glenda sees Travis Crouch

in the area of Turner Bend.

The following day or days,
a person calls

and says he absolutely was
in this area at that time.

He and his dad hunted a ridge--

I think they said 100 yards
from where her body was found.

That person says
his dad let it slip

that Travis was in the area
during that time

on one of these hunting trips,

but they, in interviews,
always denied

that their son was around.

So Travis' crime history
is one of violence

and sexual violence.

So him being connected
to that area

makes him a person of interest
at minimum,

somebody we really need
to look into.

And then with his family
operating this church camp,

which, if you drive up
Highway 23

and then you turn west on--
on that particular road,

you pass the Baptist Vista
Church Camp on your way

to the site where
Melissa's body was found.

Combine that
with his criminal history,

his knowledge of the area,
now we've got a strong witness

saying he's in this area

at the time
of her disappearance, roughly.

He's somebody we have to take
very seriously at this point.

Kind of the big thing,
if we can find,

is, there's a brown
Chevy Capri that--

I still haven't found in here
exactly how it got landed on

to be searched,
but it was searched

by you all and the FBI.

20 pieces of evidence
were taken from it,

a lot of really good stuff
taken from it.

We're not sure
where that stuff is right now.

PERSON: What's the relevance
of the Capri to the--

JAY: It was registered
to Travis' mom

at the time of the abduction.

ROB: So we gotta find that.

There's another--
PERSON: That's that--

12-year-old talks
about a brown car, right?

- [sighs]
That's a good question.

BRAD: Yeah, the boys--

I thought he said
it was a bigger car,

but he said it was brown.

JAY: It would have been
pretty big.

It's a 1977 model,

so that would have been
a pretty big car.

ROB: I'm going to read from
that Tipton kid's interview.

He said, "I went out and I
brought back the wrong book.

"I had to go back
and get the other book.

"While I was outside,
I heard a girl scream.

"There was a brown car parked
with its lights

"about two parking spaces away
from the two people.

I got scared
and ran back into"--

PERSON: Brown car.

BRAD: Well, that makes
a lot of sense

because if you look
at the crime scene,

I mean, that's a couple
parking spaces

back from her car, so...

♪ ♪

ROB: Yeah, I think--this--
this is a 12-year-old.

It was an older car.

It looked like a Lincoln
or a similar type.

PERSON: It's a Capri, man.

JAY: Yeah, absolutely.
That's a good fit for a Capri.

And this is just assumption
because I can't find

how they got to that car,

would be that they began
to follow up

on Travis Crouch tips
and probably dug through

and found mom's registration,
found that she drove a brown--

she owned a '97 Capri,
but I don't have any--

I don't have any supporting
documentation for that, so...

We're constantly looking
for the car

that Melissa was abducted in.

So when Travis pulls up,
Glenda recognized

that he was driving
his mom's brown

what we now to be
a 1977 Chevrolet Caprice.

And so, if we get him
in that car

in this area at that time,

then we need to find that car

and see if there's any evidence
in it.

And--and officers at that time
did--did just that.

They were able
to track that car back.

It had been sold by--
by this time,

but they were able to confirm
that in 1994,

it belonged to Travis' mother.

They--they took a team
of Arkansas state police,

Fort Smith Police Officers,
and FBI--

and actually,
they brought in the FBI's

crime scene processors to--

they got consent
from the current owner

of that car at the time to--

to process this car.

And they were very thorough.

They did what appears to be,
through the report,

outstanding work and pulled--

pulled 20 pieces of evidence
out of this car

from front seat to tape lifts
to cushions.

Anywhere you might find
blood evidence

or DNA evidence, even--

this would have been--
this was 1998

when they did this in February.

So DNA was still pretty--
pretty rudimentary,

but they knew enough
to pull it.

They could see
where it was going.

The stuff has been processed.

It was sent directly
to the FBI lab.

That's why the FBI
was involved that day.

The Fort Smith PD
was smart and--

and worked
their chain of custody

such that the evidence went
straight from that scene

into the possession
of the FBI and sent

straight to Quantico
for processing.

Unfortunately,
no blood was found.

No--no physical evidence
that could be

found in 1998 was found.

We do think we know
where all that evidence is

and we might resubmit it to see
if 2023 science finds anything.

I'm not very optimistic
about it.

I'm not sure that's gonna
end up being the car,

but they--they certainly did
their due diligence

in processing it properly,
very thoroughly,

and sending it
to the best place

they could send it there
in Quantico.

[birds singing]

DEPUTY: Like I said, I don't
know how old this place is.

REUBEN: Uh-huh.

DEPUTY: This could be,
you know, way back when.

REUBEN: Yeah.

But it's close enough that--

well, we need to figure out who
owned it or whatever, you know?

We received a tip from someone
stating that Charlie Ray Vines

had a cabin in that same area

where Melissa Witt's body
was found,

and that two local Franklin
County sheriff deputies

have been in that area,

found the remains
of that cabin.

They actually marked off
the distance from that cabin

to Melissa Witt's body

and saw that it was,
like, fairly close.

So just follow this trail
and it'll take us down

to where we had
to turn around at?

DEPUTY: Yeah.

REUBEN: And you said it's about
2 miles from here to there?

- Well, Google Maps shows
from drop pin

straight as a crow flies,
it's 2.4 miles.

REUBEN: 2.4. OK.

They speculated
that there's potential

that Melissa Witt
could have been abducted,

taken to that cabin
by Charlie Ray Vines,

and then dumped by him
on that rock,

or where she was found.

And you don't know

if this area was ever searched
or anything,

as far as you know?

- The only place that I know of
is just where,

you know, her body was found.
REUBEN: OK.

Gotcha.

- Because I remember whenever
we was moving from the old jail

to the new jail and we was
going through reports,

I don't know
where it went since then,

but I remember finding
the one-page report

of where her body was found.
REUBEN: Yeah.

- Up here.
REUBEN: Yeah.

- And it got turned over--
you know,

it even said in there,
you know,

"turned over to state police."
REUBEN: Yeah.

DEPUTY:
And then, from there,

that's all you really got
off the report.

And then, you know,
that lady got a hold of Curtis.

REUBEN: Uh huh.

- That's whenever we decided to
come up here and look for this.

REUBEN:
Yeah, yeah. OK.

- Imagine someone
putting her body up there

that didn't know this area.

REUBEN: Oh, no.
- Yeah. You don't--

REUBEN: No.

- You get off the interstate
and go past the Mulberry River,

and then just go, I'll just
drive for 20 minutes and then--

REUBEN: Right.
- It was someone who knew this.

- I'm like you.

Whoever done it knew the area.

- Yeah.
REUBEN: Mm-hmm.

- Do you know
if Franklin County ever has--

or just this area ever has
old hiking trail maps?

DEPUTY: If they do,
it'll be at the Forest Service.

- Because surely
Charlie Vines' trail maps

would have overlapped
a lot of existing trails.

REUBEN: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Yeah.

- And we'll see if any of them
overlay any of this.

REUBEN: Right.

[foreboding music]

♪ ♪

- This whole CODIS thing
has me baffled.

Like, it's--why--
why is he not, like--

and are we gonna run
into legal issues

because his conviction was
in '98?

Or does that predate--

ROB: I don't think so--

- Required being--
to be put in CODIS?

- In 1 of '98, the FBI has a...

A lead that they send
to Denver Division.

So it gives a little synopsis
of the case.

And it says, you know,
"Investigation at Fort Smith,

"Arkansas,
places Crouch in area

"at the time of Witt's
abduction and discovery.

"And he can also be
placed in the proximity

of where her body was."

And then it says, "Denver"--
Here's the lead.

"Contact Travis Dale Crouch
at the Boulder County

"Sheriff's Department
and attempt to consensually

"have hair and blood samples
drawn from him.

"If above is successful,
contact this person.

"Forward dried blood
and hair samples

to Little Rock Division."

There was an attempt
to get it in '98.

But it's saying consensual.

Consensually have
hair and blood.

JAY: He probably didn't--

what you bet
that didn't happen?

- Yeah.

There should be a note
in a file somewhere

that says they attempted
and he declined.

JAY: Mm-hmm.

ROB: And that's probably why
he said at trial

some--something like,
"I'm not giving Arkansas that--

that a-hole in Arkansas
any DNA or blood."

Whether it's Lanny Reese
pissed him off

and he just didn't
want to do it,

or he just wasn't gonna do it

because he thought it would
link him to something.

JAY: Yeah.

- And here's another thing.

If there's--
someone attempted to do it,

and then years later,
it would have been required

to be in CODIS,
there might be people who go,

"That's already been done,"
and assume it's been done.

And then it didn't get done.

- Yeah.

- But Lanny Reese
was wanting it.

A lead was sent to collect it.

What were they thinking?

Were they--were they thinking
comparing it to--

but we didn't have
a DNA profile

until 2000
on that cigarette butt,

so why did they want it so bad?

[suspenseful music]

♪ ♪

BRAD: How are you, sir?

TECHNICIAN: Good. How are you?

BRAD: Oh, I'm just wonderful.

- So you and I need
to go back here.

- OK.

- This is a restricted area,
so I can't--

- OK. Yeah, that's fine.

- OK. So if you want--

BRAD: OK.
- I've already signed you in.

♪ ♪

[indistinct chatter]

BRAD: What's that mean?
TECHNICIAN: Not much.

[indistinct chatter]

♪ ♪

TECHNICIAN:
Debris found on body.

JAY: That's his hair.

BRAD: I bet this is the--

JAY: To compare
the hair example

to Charlie Vines.

So hair--hair comparisons
and trace evidence

to compare to Charlie Vines.

- OK, we got--

- Oh, a cigarette butt?

Yeah, this is apparently
from the scene.

- Or LL-1, number 1, Cambridge
smoked cigarette butt.

2 and 3, Cambridge cigarette
filter butts.

So that'll be LL--

all these should be
LL-1 through 13

if they're all in this.

Cigarette butts.

That's not gonna be
what all's in here

because on this form,
it's attached to this,

which maybe they're all--

maybe that's just for
this one single bag--

is all cigarette butts
and a Mountain Dew soda can.

But that's probably for
just this package alone.

- Probably some
of the soil samples.

JAY:
That's exactly what that is.

- All the scene stuff.

SPECIALIST:
Debris found on body.

- I'd say Crouch--
was he a smoker?

Do we know?
ROB: Yes.

He smoked when he raped
the girl up in Boulder.

And I think
they collected cigarettes

when they arrested him
off the ground.

And he was kind of
a hobo-ish transient.

So he may have had
a particular brand he liked

or he just may have smoked
what he could get his hands on.

Well, and that's where
you could get excited

about the Travis Crouch
incident because he--

he met the girl in Boulder,

talked her into going
up into the woods,

and then he isolates her
and rapes her.

Here, Melissa's taken
and ends up in the woods

in an isolated area.

And the proximity is
only 2.8 miles from his--

where his parents were
running that camp

to where her body was.

And that is--I mean,
that's by the road.

That's not even
as the crow flies,

that's the road route,

which is hugely significant
in that,

you know, he could be
an outlier.

He could have kept her
for a while

because he had
some isolated area up there

where he could do more
if it was him, but,

most likely, if he follows
the standard statistic,

he got what he needed
gratification-wise

and then murdered her
and dumped her.

But if we're looking at this
from both behavioral

and statistical likelihoods,
I mean, it really--

it lines up with Travis.

And, you know,
we talk about Vines

being a possibility because
of the cemetery near there.

But where--where Vines'
behavior differentiates is,

the four crimes we know
he did that he's convicted on,

he somehow knew the people
and went into their homes

under the cover of their homes
to do his crime

and to murder them,
and this would be an outlier.

Still, it could be.

I mean, if he, for some reason,
had a moment

where he became opportunistic
and did things differently,

but it would be
an outlier from him,

whereas it matches up more
to Travis or someone else's MO.

But we can think about that
all day long.

I think the thing is,
is find the evidence,

find the DNA profile.

If our lab has--

if the state lab has
a DNA profile from this item

and it hasn't been submitted
in the system

or compared to CODIS,
it needs to be done.

If it hasn't been done
recently, it needs to be done.

We might develop a completely
new suspect from this.

If there's cigarettes
found along the roadside,

gosh, that could mean anything.

If are cigarettes that were
found nearer to the body,

either way, they all have to be
tested if they haven't been.

But if this happens
to be a cigarette

that was near the body
and we have a DNA profile,

we probably need
to dig deep into that.

And then in talking
with Sergeant Baker

over Travis Crouch,

he found that Travis Crouch has
no DNA in CODIS,

and he's been convicted
since '98.

It says in--in III
that he's not in CODIS,

DNA needs collected.

So he's been making calls and--

to Denver or Colorado Bureau
of Investigation

to try and find--

confirm that that's
not been done

and then get it done
because Crouch could

very easily be suspect
in other cases.

It looks like he slipped
through the cracks.

BRAD: And on a side note,
I got a phone call yesterday

that Travis Crouch is
getting paroled today.

ROB: Today he's getting out?

BRAD: I was told yesterday
his hearing--

- His hearing is today.
BRAD: Yeah.