All language subtitles for Presumed.Innocent.2024.S01E04.ATVP.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.H.264-NTb.en

Yeah?

Kyle, can we talk to you for a second?

Your mother's here with me too.

Hi, honey.

Kyle, there's a picture of your bike

at Carolyn's house
on the night of May 18th.

Why were you there?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Honey...

I wasn't. I must've just been riding by.
That's all I...

- Baby.
- Okay. Kyle, there was a photograph of...

of you at Carolyn Polhemus's house
the night of May 18th.

Why were you there?

Honey, we got these images
from the police,

so they have this evidence too.

You gotta be honest. It's important now.

Oh, my God. For God's sake, Kyle,
why were you there?

I guess I wanted to
get a sense of the there.

The what?

Where you were going.

So, you knew about
your father and Carolyn?

I heard you two fighting about it.

Okay.

Does your sister know? Does Jaden...
Does she know?

I didn't tell her. I don't know.

When did you first find out about it?

Does that matter?

Well, I wouldn't ask you
if it didn't matter.

I don't remember.

A few months ago maybe.

Okay, so that I'm clear, you went there
to see what she looked like.

You know how to use Google,
so you could find a picture of her,

but you wanted to see where she lived.

- Were you casing out her house?
- Rusty.

Were you casing out her house, Kyle?

I just don't understand the reasoning
behind why you were going there.

Maybe I was trying to
figure out your reason.

- I wanna talk to Mom about this.
- No! I am your father...

- Rusty.
- ...and you're gonna answer...

Rusty, please.

It's okay.

Fine.

Bunny Davis was a daughter.

Bunny Davis was a sister,
a friend, cousin.

Bunny Davis was 26 years old

when she found herself alone
in a dirty motel room with a monster,

and she's praying... pleading...

that this is the kind of man
who will just let her go.

But no.

This man, Liam Reynolds,

is the kind of person who does this...

and this...

and this.

What do you think?

I think you're amazing, Carolyn.

This thing's a fucking mess.

Hey.

Hey. The front porch light is out.

So, he rode by her house a few times,

and he saw you going in once.

Obviously, we need to get him
into therapy as soon as possible.

Why?

Rusty, he's been carrying this around
for months.

We have no idea of the impact.

Okay, sure, but you and I can talk to him
about this together.

Oh, right.

- Like you just talked to him right now?
- We don't have to have...

What is that supposed to mean?

You interrogated the kid.

I interrogated him?

Yeah.

I was asking him questions.

- "Why were you casing out her house?"
- He was there, of course I was asking.

Asking like a prosecutor, Rusty.

- Are you kidding me?
- He's 15!

- What the fuck is wrong with you?
- What?

- You caused this, Rusty. You did.
- Of course. It's me.

Yes, I am the fuck-up-in-chief.

But guess what.
You played a part in it too.

And you will, at some point,
need to take some fucking responsibility.

I can't do this anymore. I'm done.

- I just...
- Done!

In my medical opinion,

the cause of death
was cranial blunt force trauma.

So, the judge has been already told
that you're an expert,

so you don't need to qualify.

You don't need to say, "In my opinion."

- You can sit up straight.
- Okay.

- Just sit up straight.
- You don't gotta...

- Don't tell me how to s...
- You're gonna give the jury

- your findings, right? Your expertise.
- Don't... Just... Okay, I...

- Wow.
- And you're not gonna make it about you.

What an... No. Don't do that.

You know,
I'm doing this bullshit exercise for you,

- that you got me up in the morning for...
- Which I appreciate.

I am a medical doctor.
You're gonna respect me.

I respect you as a doctor.

As a witness, however,
you are known to shit the bed.

You fucking prick.

Forget it.

This is what you got me up out of bed for?

I'll get that file to you
by the way, scumbag.

The details of this case
are being kept close to the vest.

There's not been a single leak.

I mean,
how strong can this case be?

They don't even have a murder weapon.

Yeah, I don't see
how they've cleared the bar

of going beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Hard to believe
this is even going to trial.

You know, former colleagues
now at each other's throats...

Sabich has two children...

- But Kyle was there.
- No.

He just... He rode by, like I said.

It was just a few times.

- We're sure he didn't kill her?
- You know, you're not funny.

That's not fucking funny.

I wasn't intending to be.

So, Michael Caldwell at Carolyn's house
the night of the murder.

Footage of Kyle there, a few weeks prior?

Jesus Christ.

I'm gonna have to think about this.

I do not have it.

- Fucking...
- Is there something else?

I just didn't get any sleep last night,
okay, Ray?

Is that it?

What is it?

Barbara and I got into it,
you know, and she said that she was done.

"Done" as in, "I'm gonna leave you"?

Come on. If she was gonna leave you,
she would've already done it.

- I don't need this right now.
- What would she be waiting for?

Good excuse?

You betrayed her.

You betrayed your children.

In fact, knowing Barbara,

the betrayal of the children
is the deeper of the two offenses.

Ray, it's just... it's complicated.

- Yeah. Tell me. Come on.
- It's... It...

Depression, compulsion, narcissism.

I'll take any of that.

Let's send you to a doctor
and get a fucking diagnosis.

But my fear is
that it'll just come back "pig."

Your dick got hard for Carolyn,
you fucked her,

and now you wanna feel less bad about it.

It's what men who cheat do, Rusty.

They wanna have their cake, eat it,
and then chalk it up to complexity.

Jury will find it pretty simple.

On the plus side,
they'll also find it unoriginal.

It won't shock their conscience.

But for what it's worth, it shocked me.

It shocked Lorraine,
and I'm sure it shocked Barbara.

But she's still with you.

That tells me she means to hang in.

You know what? Hold on a second.

You know what? I...

How dare you say
that I don't take responsibility,

that I don't feel shame,
and that I am not consumed with guilt?

Fuck you.

You know, in 40 years, I have seen
a lot of guilt and shame in this business.

Shame is something
that you put on yourself.

It's self-absorbed, self-centered.

Guilt is more about owning and feeling
the pain that you cause others.

I don't doubt that you feel shame.

Tommy...

Tommy, why am I on the witness list?

'Cause I think you have information

about the relationship
between Carolyn and Rusty.

I have no information
about what happened that night.

But you might have a little information
about what happened all the other nights.

Right?

Seems to me that this is something
that really should've been reported to HR,

so maybe you're just wrestling
with your own culpability here.

Wow, you are really a miserable prick,
aren't you?

Hey, listen to me.

We're doing it for Carolyn, all right?
Just think about it. For her.

Hello, gentlemen.

Thanks for coming in.

How you doing? Get you anything?

You good?

I'm not really comfortable with all this.

I completely understand. It's awful.

But as we're building this case
against Mr. Sabich,

every detail becomes enormously important,

and the defense is gonna come at you
with all these questions.

And I just wanna make sure
that we have everything exactly right.

Shouldn't we have a lawyer with us?

That's entirely up to you,

but I'm just confirming information
that we already discussed.

This is a photo you took of Mr. Sabich

entering your mother's house
the night she was killed.

It's June 16th, 9:49 p.m. Is that correct?

Yes.

And all these other photos
you took on the same night?

Yes.

Why didn't you take pictures
of him leaving the house?

I left after he went in.

Why were you there?

Sometimes I would just go.

Why?

He already answered that.

Okay. It's... We... This is
extremely important for us to iron out,

because they're gonna ask
the same questions, okay? The defense.

Because she was my mother.

Sometimes I'd go look at the house.

You ever see anyone else
entering the house?

He was the only one there that night.

How did Mr. Sabich seem
as he entered the house?

What was his demeanor?

I don't know.

And during this meeting
that you had with him, how did he seem?

You said that during this meeting,
you accused him of killing your mother.

Is that right?

I mean, he denied it, but he was lying.

Why do you say that? How do you know that?

I could see it in his eyes.

Also, once, she told me
she was becoming afraid of him.

But I thought you didn't... When did you
have contact with your mother?

I had convinced her to meet me for lunch.

She seemed stressed,

and I got pissed off
because I thought it was me.

And then I asked her what was wrong,

and she said that there's a man at work
that's beginning to scare her.

- Did she say who this man was?
- Nah.

She said that she had cases with him,

which is why she couldn't shake him.

- Hey.
- Hi.

What can I get you?

I think...

Belvedere martini. No olives, no juice.

- Hi.
- Hi.

I've been talking about you all week.

Nah, that's not how it sounds like.

Okay.

Shift drink, Clif?

I wasn't, but I will now.

I got these bartender hands.

It's messed up all the time.

How's the drama?

- Same old.
- Yeah? I bet. Mind if I join you?

- Sure, yeah.
- Yeah?

Clifton.

- Barbara.
- Barbara.

Nice to officially meet you.

What is that stuff, that cream?

Yes. This stuff. Jeanine makes it.

Yeah, it's cocoa butter infused with weed.

Don't put your fingers in your mouth.

- You will get very high.
- Okay.

- Thank you for the heads-up.
- Of course. Indeed.

That is so generous. Thank you.

So tell me about your tattoos.

I ask, realizing it's very cliché
to ask about someone's tattoos.

Yeah. I get it.

This. I'm somewhat of an artist too.

Mainly projection art, but I designed
this during my youthful idiocy.

It's the Yijing.

You know about that?

I know about John Cage,

Brian Eno, and the random
creative operation of things.

Right.

I'm also very familiar
with youthful idiocy.

- Cheers.
- Cheers.

Rigo.

Guess what I got.

A hit on the second sample
in the Bunny Davis case.

What? How did you do that?

I didn't find any matches
in the whole system.

Yeah. This fool gave his DNA
to Ancestry.com.

Brian Ratzer.

Ratzer. Address?

Do we know anything about him?

Not really, other than he left
a sperm sample at a homicide scene

involving a dead prostitute.

Look, thank you for doing this.

I know you're putting your ass
out on the line.

I'm not doing it for you.
I'm doing it for Carolyn.

Rusty, I'm gonna need you to chill
in there, okay?

Do not say anything.

- Hello, ma'am.
- Hi.

Sorry to disturb you. We're with CPD.

We're looking for Brian Ratzer.
Is he home?

Hon!

He's down the basement.

Would you like to come inside
and I'll go get him?

Sure.

Hon.

Hon?

- Yeah.
- The police are here.

Please, have a seat. He'll be right up.

- Great. Thanks.
- Coffee?

Sure.

Hey.

- Hi.
- What can I do for you?

We're looking into some incidents
that happened in this area,

June 16th, 2019.

The night of. We're just canvassing.

What incident are you looking into?

Some break-ins.

Not on this street.
A few miles east, on Robertson.

It was a Thursday night.
I know it's a while to think back, but...

I don't need to think back.
I don't know the street.

If it happened at night, I work nights.

Where do you work?

Hey, can I see your badge?

Sure.

It's just that

- a sex worker was found murdered, so...
- Here we go.

Yeah. Not now, babe, okay?

I said not now.

Okay.

What is this about exactly?

I just told you.

Where do you work, Mr. Ratzer?

Did you answer the question?

I don't need to answer any questions.

Sooner or later,
you're gonna have to answer the questions.

I mean, you're gonna have to have
the conversation at some point.

Don't I know you from someplace?

Here's my card.

You give me a call
when you're ready to talk.

And if I don't?

I think you're gonna have to.

And I think you know why.

Or maybe we should ask your wife.

- Hey, Laura.
- Hey.

Yeah?

- It's okay, babe.
- Yeah?

What's going on? Do you need something?

Just wanted to say thank you
for the coffee.

You're welcome. Is everything okay?

Yeah.

Okay.

Get the fuck out of here.

I told you not to agitate him.

I just asked him one question.

You are un-fucking-believable.

Why do you look so scared?

Why do you look so scared?

B?

B, what are you doing?

Not taking any chances.

He was riding by her house.

Who's to say he didn't
walk through her garden,

look through her window,
stand on her doormat...

- Hey. Hey.
- ...ring her doorbell?

Come on.

I don't think that Kyle is a suspect.

Rusty.

Sometimes I think you forget
our son is Black.

How did it make you feel
to see your dad go in her house?

You wanna talk about it?

No.

- You must have feelings.
- But I don't wanna talk about them.

Kyle.

A lot worse shit has happened
since I saw him go in her house.

You kidding?

This is ridiculous.

I made zero progress,
not that we often do right off.

Early sessions can be more
about establishing trust,

and I think I failed there too.

Look, speaking to the...

the bigger issue,
I think we need to redraw some lines.

Okay. What do you mean?

This thing has become
way too layered and loaded

for me to treat you, Rusty, Rusty and you,
and now Kyle in the midst of...

It really should be one therapist per.

Per? Like we have that kind of money.

I think I should take you, and only you.

I know.

Can you s...

I think it's possible
that you do wanna forgive Rusty

and stay married to him.

I also think it's possible...

I suspect even more likely...
that your limbic system is just...

it's going full-bore.

You are in self-defense mode, trying
to save your marriage for your kids,

doing whatever you consciously
or unconsciously deem necessary.

You have always been
about preservation of family.

But I also think it's possible that when
the kids are grown or off to college,

this compulsion to forgive

could metastasize into something else,

like anger or hatred even.

Could be it's already happening.

Look, your husband fell in love
with another woman.

He's now facing trial for killing her.

You need your own therapist.

So, Eugenia came by my office earlier.

What did she say? Why? What did she say?

Hey, hey.

I got no issue with you calling her
as a witness, all right?

It's just...
If she's gonna be your witness,

it might help for her to be in your camp.

Tell me what she said.

She said that...

She said that you're an asshole,
all right?

But we know you can be a little...

Okay. Listen, I'm my best
prosecutorial-self when I'm angry.

You know that.

Yeah, but if your plan is to rely on
hostile witnesses to make your case...

Eugenia will bend over
any which way she can to help Rusty.

I think she's a little in love with him.

I need to tell her to toe the line.

No. The line you need to toe
is one of hard evidence, all right?

Character assassination
is not gonna get it done.

I'll give you hard evidence. Don't worry.

I am worried. I'm worried.

Raymond's asked for a meeting.

Why? What about?

Well, I can only imagine it's because
he thinks he's got a play on a plea.

And if he thinks that, he must feel
that he's got us by the balls.

He hasn't got my balls, Tommy.

Has he got yours?

There's no chance of any plea.

No. Plus, we need to find out
if there are other sex workers in the area

and if they can recognize Ratzer.

I mean, the guy fucking knows something.
I'm sure of it.

- Of course.
- You ready?

- Yeah. Look, I'll call you back.
- Sure.

Can you take me through that night again?

You said you were
at the office that night.

Yes.

A few of us were working late
on Raymond's campaign,

ostensibly working on Raymond's campaign.

Ostensibly?

Well, I was mostly texting.

And getting no messages back...

which I wasn't really handling very well.

And she was basically ghosting me,
so I needed somewhere to go.

And what time did you leave the office?

A little after 8:30.

So I'd sometimes eat out because I just...

I wasn't in any state to go home.

I don't really remember much from the bar.

Guess I had a few things to drink.

Maybe I ordered another. I don't know.

And then she texted back,

and I was off to the races.

So the text from her comes in at 9:24 p.m.

Michael Caldwell's photos
show you arriving at 9:49.

What happened?

I mean, I don't know how much detail
you want here, but...

Hey.

What happened...

- What?
- I just...

What happened?

I don't know why you're so angry.

What happened?

Miss you so much.

Well, mostly, we argued.

You argued?

I wanted to get back together,
and she didn't,

- and, I mean, that was pretty much it.
- Stop.

- Hey.
- Leave!

Cell metadata has you arriving home
at 11:00 on the nose.

It's a 20-minute drive from her house
to yours, which means you left at 10:40.

You were at her house for 51 minutes.

Long argument.

Get the fuck out of here.

And then you just left after that?

Then we kissed goodbye.

You kissed?

Yes, and then I went home.

When she kissed me,
she knew that it would give me hope.

I mean, the kiss got me to the car.

It got me to go home.

But when I got home, I realized that...

that hope had just turned into cruelty.

She knew what she was doing.

She was fucking cruel.

So, what's your take so far?

Well, on the case,
I kind of like where we're at.

They'll have a hard time
making their burden.

At the same time, 51 minutes.

They'll argue it's long enough
to have tied her, cleaned the scene.

Or had sex, or argued,
or had a fight and made up.

What about Rusty?

Thoughts about putting him on the stand?

There is no way we let that man
anywhere near the witness chair.

Agreed.

What'd we find out about Ratzer?

There's gotta be something there.

He got an alibi?

Right, no prior arrests?

We use CPD in Illinois State?

We got nothing. All right.
Well, he was with Reynolds, right?

Well, he was there with Reynolds,
with Bunny Davis.

We just have to fucking prove it.

Yeah, just keep... just keep at it.

Just keep pushing.

Fuck.

Hey, Molto.

Okay. Thank you.

Yeah?

Hey...

I know that we said a lot
to each other the other night. And...

I just want you to know
that I heard... I heard you.

Rusty, can we talk about this
when I get home?

I'm just about to step into the market.

- Yeah, of course. Yeah.
- Okay?

I love you.

Love you.

You know, I'm really starting
to understand the allure of day drinking.

You ever night drink?

I have appearances to uphold.

Like what?

Mom. Wife.

All the shit you probably
don't wanna hear about.

Oh, on the contrary.

Yeah, I'm deeply curious
on what it's like to be you right now.

Honestly...

I don't know.

Well, if you ever want to talk
and should I not be here...

Thank you.

- Hey, Chris.
- Hey, Raymond.

- Helen.
- Hey.

Eugenia.

Oh, my God.
Hi. Raymond. Oh, my God. How are you?

I'm hanging in. You?

I'm on the witness list.

- I saw that.
- Yeah.

I knew about the two of 'em.

Well, I wouldn't lose any sleep.

We're not denying the relationship.

Okay.

Well, do me a favor, will you?

Tell Rusty I have no intent
of giving testimony against him, okay?

- I'll do that.
- Thank you.

- Hi, guys.
- Raymond.

It's good to see you, as always.

Yes.

Okay, let's get right to it.

You two have a really fucking lousy case,
and I think you both know it.

I mean,
it's not a complete nothing burger.

He was there, last seen with her.

That's something,
but it's shitty all the same.

We disagree.

Not a drop of her blood found
in Rusty's car, none of her DNA at all.

Blood and guts everywhere at her home,

not so much as a microscopic drop
in his car.

- He cleaned it.
- Or on his clothing.

- Cleaned it also.
- No murder weapon.

Disposed of it.

You're not gonna be able
to settle on a theory, you know?

Being tied up like that,
that speaks to premeditation.

Death by fire poker? Heat of passion.

Right from the get-go,
your case is a fucking mess.

Well, we love a challenge.

I know that there is a reason

you brought
the lesser charge of obstruction,

and I would've done the same thing,

so you could get him on something.
'Cause walking away with nothing...

What is your point?

I can see that someone's
been directed not to speak.

- Smart.
- All right, great. Please, just...

Rusty cannot risk spending
the rest of his natural life in prison,

and you cannot chance an acquittal

and the obliteration
of all of your political capital.

We'll cop to the obstruction, three years.

Ray, you seriously think we'll
plead it out on an obstruction charge?

Nico, you know you moved too fast.

Tommy, he was dying for a suspect.

The idea that it could
possibly have been Rusty, well...

Is that right? Fuck you.

Let's talk about your bigger problem
sitting right here.

You've got a shitty, circumstantial case,

first-chaired by a fucking
nickel-and-dimer, going against me.

You're not stupid, Nico.

I'm giving you a conviction.

And with Judge Lyttle,

I've got a very good shot
at a required finding of not guilty.

That is a political death knell.

I'm offering you an escape hatch.

- What's this?
- Just have a read. Just check it out.

Why am I just seeing this now?

We just got it ourselves.

That wasn't the kind of sex we have.

Well, not for a long time, anyway.

Was it the kind of sex you had with her?

No.

She isn't you.

She wasn't.

I think what I find hard to understand is...

did you ask yourself...

what you were willing to lose?

We were so far apart, you and me.

I feel like, at the time,
we couldn't even have a conversation.

But she woke something up inside me,
you know?

Something...

that I thought was dead.

When you said I needed
to take responsibility...

B, I don't think I meant it the way you...

I don't think you were wrong, Rusty.

I think we allowed ourselves...

to drift apart.

Even the sex we just had now, it felt like
we were trying to prove something.

That what we had is still there.

Is it?

Fucking Raymond.

I'm gonna take it.

Hey.

- Rusty.
- Yeah.

Our case just took a turn.

Your skin was found
under Carolyn's fingernails.

What? That's... Wait. That's impossible.

It's in the report.
I just learned about it.

No. It's... I...
Ray, she never scratched me.

Like... It's a fucking lie.

DNA is DNA, Rusty.

No, it's a lie. I... Oh, my God.

I can't believe
that they're going ahead and doing this.

Who?

Fucking Molto and Delay,
and Kumagai, all of them.

- Oh, come on.
- What do you mean?

I... She never scratched me.

It's fucking planted.
They don't have a case.

They have no case,
so they're fucking trying to frame me.

Dad!

Come on! Open it up!
I know you're in there!

- Fuck. What?
- There's gotta be a reason for this.

- Dad!
- No, I...

- What is it? What's going on?
- There's someone at the door!

Raymond, hold on. What's wrong?

- I don't know.
- Hey, calm down.

- I was just watching TV and...
- Okay.

Honey, honey, calm down. It's okay.

Hey! Stop banging at my door!

- Who is it?
- I don't know!

Rusty. Jaden!

- You come and fuck with my family!
- Dad, who is that?

- Hold on! Just stop!
- I'm gonna call the cops.

No! Do not call the police, Barbara.
Just let me think.

Open this door up.

- Jaden, step away from the door!
- Step away!

- Open the fucking door!
- Just ho...

- Rusty.
- Mr. Ratzer! Listen to me.

- You come and fuck with my family...
- I'm the one you want.

- Step away from my house.
- ...I'll fuck with your family!

- Honey, come here. Honey.
- Mr. Ratzer!

- Listen to me...
- Rusty. Hello?

One more time! I swear to God!

- Rusty!
- Dad!

- Rusty, Stop!
- Enough! Look at me!

- Please! Dad.
- Rusty!