All language subtitles for Frontline.S42E08.Germanys.Enemy.Within.720p.HEVC.x265-MeGusta-en

There is concern about the
size and scope of extremism.

NARRATOR: Correspondent Evan
William’s investigates the rise

of Germany’s far-right.

People think you’re going to
restrict the press.

You’re going to deport people.

(speaking German):

NARRATOR: And the fight
against it.

We consider right wing
extremism the severest and most

threatening danger that we have
right now.

NARRATOR: Now on FRONTLINE,
Germany’s Enemy Within.

They were very dangerous,
they were very well prepared.

We're not talking
about some amateur warriors.

We're talking about people

that are really trained
in using weapons.

EVAN WILLIAMS:
In the fall of 2022,

German intelligence chiefs
were secretly monitoring

a suspected far-right plot
to overthrow the government.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: The surveillance
operation was focused

on a wealthy German aristocrat,
Heinrich Reuss,

who was thought to be
one of the ringleaders.

We were following him
very closely

to find the right moment

before they could do

what they were actually trying
to execute,

but having enough on our plate
for criminal charges

that we could press
against them.

WILLIAMS: But according
to German intelligence,

Reuss kept putting off his plans
at the last minute

for a bizarre reason.

He had some spiritual leaders
who were looking for the stars

and the right connection

to start their whole maneuvers.

Probably three, four times

when they were almost becoming
to get ready,

they claimed, like, "Oh,
the stars are not right today."

So we have to, you know,
cool down and start again.

And we were just getting
really nervous, because,

you know, up and down,
and you have

to have all the countermeasures
in place.

At the third or fourth time
we were in action,

we took them out.

(talking in background)

German authorities
have foiled an alleged plot

that aimed to topple the
government in Berlin by force.

25 people,
including a soldier and a judge,

were detained after police...

WILLIAMS: After months
of surveillance,

around 3,000 police officers

and German special forces
across 11 states

carried out a series
of coordinated dawn raids.

These arrests
are a remarkable demonstration

of how potent and dangerous

far-right ideologies are
all across the globe.

It sounds like a crazy story,

but the point is,
it was very real,

and it was very dangerous.

And we took them out
before they could do any harm.

But this is only one group
who plans plots like this.

We had many others before.

Germany is in shock

after an antisemitic attack
on a synagogue...

WILLIAMS: Over the past
decade,

Germany has faced a wave
of far-right violence and plots

against Jews,

Muslims,

immigrants,

and politicians.

(speaking German):

(applauding)

WILLIAMS: At the same time,

support has soared
for the far-right party the AfD,

Alternative für Deutschland.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: I came here
back in 2021

as the AfD was gaining ground
in parts of Germany

and fears about extremist
violence were increasing.

(cheering and applauding)

I returned in 2024

to speak
to intelligence officials,

victims of far-right violence,

and the AfD politician
Björn Höcke, who's on the brink

of an historic election victory
in Eastern Germany...

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS:
...and to investigate

the AfD's vision for Germany

amid accusations that the party
has provoked violence.

If we want to live
in democracy

in ten, 15 years,

we have to act now.

Um, there's no time to wait
anymore.

♪ ♪

We have a principle
in Germany

which is called
defensive democracy.

It comes out
of the ideas and experiences

that we had
with Nazi dictatorship.

Remember,
Hitler and his Nazi N.S.D.A.P.

were elected into power.

They didn't do a revolution.

People voted for the Nazis
to take over the power.

WILLIAMS: Stephan Kramer is
the domestic intelligence chief

in the German state of Thuringia

and is himself Jewish.

Okay, we have to get in
there.

WILLIAMS: His agency
was set up after World War II

to monitor extremist threats
to democracy.

Today, he's come to Northern
Germany to meet city mayors

and deliver a warning about the
growing strength of the AfD...

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: ...which is now
the second-most popular

political party in the country.

(speaking German):

Everybody's very concerned

that our defensive democracy
is on the edge

the New Right, the AfD, is
explicitly acting against

our principles of the Federal
Constitution.

This is exactly a situation
that we would have never thought

would occur after what
we've learned in '33 to '45.

And here we are.

(speaking German):

We had a blood trail

of right-wing extremist
terrorism,

and people killed--
terrible things--

but nevertheless,
none of them was so dangerous

to our constitution,

to the fundamental pieces
of our society,

as they are right now.

Look, the Germans did not
invent antisemitism,

but they invented Auschwitz.

And this is,
this is something that we should

always keep in mind.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS:
For almost 80 years,

Germany has worked
to overcome its Nazi history.

(crowd cheering and applauding)

Since 2015,
it's become a global leader

in welcoming refugees,

taking in more
than a million people

fleeing conflicts
across the world.

(speaking German):

(drums pounding)

WILLIAMS: But the influx has
had unintended consequences.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: A rise in
anti-immigrant

and anti-Muslim sentiment.

(chanting in German):

WILLIAMS: The AfD stoked
those fears

and won millions
of new supporters.

(crowd chanting in German)

And Germany was hit by a series

of far-right terror attacks.

In the summer of 2019,

pro-refugee politician
Walter Lübcke was murdered

by a neo-Nazi gunman.

What's believed to be

Germany's first far-right
political assassination

since World War II.

WILLIAMS:
And four months later,

on the Jewish religious holiday
of Yom Kippur,

more bloodshed--

this time in the city of Halle.

A few people I knew
were traveling

from Berlin to Halle,

a place I didn't even know
exactly where it was,

to celebrate Yom Kippur
in a smaller community,

and I was happy and curious.

WILLIAMS: Christina Feist,
then a postgraduate student,

was one of around
50 Jewish worshippers

in Halle's synagogue that day.

We had actually
started reading from the Torah.

A friend of mine
was seated in front of me,

and I remember hearing
this, like, bang.

And for a split second,
I remember this, I thought,

"This is a terror attack,
we should all get down."

(fires)

WILLIAMS: A gunman was trying

to shoot his way
into the synagogue.

(fires)

There was a video camera

taping what was happening
in the street,

and I looked at the screen.

And that is actually, um...

(voice trembling): That is what
really gets me even today.

I saw a person, a human being,
lying on the floor, outside.

And, I was, I was,

like, "What's happening?

(sniffles):
Is this person dead?"

(fires)

WILLIAMS: The gunman failed

to break through
the locked door,

but shot dead two people
who happened to be nearby.

(fires)

At least two people have
been killed in a shooting

near a synagogue in
the East German city of Halle.

(fires)

WILLIAMS: The attacker,

a 27-year-old
named Stephan Balliet,

had planned to murder everyone
in the synagogue.

At his trial,

a prosecutor described his plan
to massacre Jews

as "one of the most despicable
acts of antisemitism

in Germany since World War II."

♪ ♪

There is concern
about the size,

shape, and scope of extremism

in the country.

WILLIAMS:
When I came to Germany

shortly after
the synagogue attack,

I was told it was
just the tip of an iceberg.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: Martina Renner
is a lawmaker

and anti-fascism campaigner

who sat on a committee
in the German parliament

looking into extremism.

(speaking German):

♪ ♪

WILLIAMS: Support for the far
right is particularly strong

in the state of Thuringia.

Formerly a part of
communist East Germany,

in recent years,
it's become an AfD stronghold.

I came here back in 2021

to meet someone
who was investigating

online extremist networks.

Hi, Katharina?

Hello, it's Evan.

Hi!
WILLIAMS: How are you?

At the time,

Katharina König-Preuss,

a lawmaker in
the Thuringia state parliament

and a prominent anti-fascism
activist,

was secretly infiltrating
and monitoring

far-right social media groups.

Okay, thank you.

Talk me through,
what, what are you seeing?

Um, "Black people,

I'll take them as Brennholz."

WILLIAMS: "Black people,
I'll take them as firewood."

Yeah, "I'll take them
as firewood," and Hitler...

WILLIAMS:
With a picture of Hitler.

Yeah.
WILLIAMS: Ku Klux Klan.

Mm-hmm.
WILLIAMS: Heil Hitler.

Anne Frank.
WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.

So it's written,
"die, die Ofenfrische."

WILLIAMS: "Freshly baked
from the oven,"

over a picture of Anne Frank.

Yeah.
WILLIAMS: Wow.

And you think
there are thousands,

possibly tens of thousands,
of people sharing this material.

Yeah.

It started with Facebook,

and now most of the groups
are Telegram.

Some Whatsapp groups.

WILLIAMS: What sort
of thing are they discussing?

(speaking German):

I'd say in ten to 20 groups,
they talk about

the terroristic attacks that we
had in Germany, in Halle,

and Mr. Lübcke.

They talk about
if it's okay or not okay.

WILLIAMS: Do they say
it's okay?

They say it's okay.

Especially Halle--
they said the...

WILLIAMS: Where they attacked
the synagogue.

Yeah,
but it's, like, you know,

when Halle happened,
they started to discuss,

and the most they discussed was
why he just killed two people.

And it was something like,
"If I would do that,

I would kill more,
I would kill hundreds."

They support it,
and by supporting it,

they, they give the signal
to, to people

in that groups, "Do it--
it's okay to do it."

♪ ♪

WILLIAMS:
Four months after Halle,

in February 2020, there was
another far-right attack,

this time in the city of Hanau.

(crowd reciting):
Vili Viorel Paun.

Mercedes Kierpacz.

(repeats):
Mercedes Kierpacz.

Hamza Kurtovic.
(repeats): Hamza Kurtovic.

Said Nesar Hashemi.

(crowd repeats):
Said Nesar Hashemi.

Ferhat Unvar.
(repeats): Ferhat Unvar.

Kaloyan Velkov.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS:
Armin Kurtovic's son Hamza

was in the Arena Bar,
the gunman's next target.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS:
Nine people were shot dead,

all of migrant background.

Six of them were Muslim.

The killer returned to his home,
where he shot his mother,

then himself.

If you don't believe
the following,

you better wake up, quick.

In your country exists
so-called...

WILLIAMS: In the weeks
before the shootings,

Tobias Rathjen
posted a video of himself

repeating
wild conspiracy theories

and an online manifesto.

He ranted against immigrants,

saying Muslims should be
"wiped out of Germany."

(speaking German):

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS:
Armin told me he believed

that the killer was motivated
by hateful rhetoric

from Germany's
far-right politicians.

(speaking German):

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: The killings
in Hanau increased scrutiny

on the anti-immigrant rhetoric
of the AfD,

which by then
was the third-biggest bloc

in the German parliament.

(speaking German):

(applauding)

WILLIAMS:
The AfD officially condemned

the Hanau and Halle attacks

and rejected that the killers

were motivated
by their rhetoric.

But the party was already
on the radar

of Germany's
domestic intelligence.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: Thomas Haldenwang
is director general

of Germany's
national domestic intelligence.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: Three weeks
after the Hanau attack,

his agency formally classified

a radical faction of the AfD
known as the Wing

as a right-wing extremist threat
to democracy.

The Wing was placed
under government surveillance

along with its leader,
Björn Höcke,

who was also head of the party
in Thuringia.

The AfD soon dissolved the Wing,

but eventually, the entire party
in Thuringia

was classified as extremist.

(speaking German):

♪ ♪

WILLIAMS: Björn Höcke rarely
speaks to the foreign media.

But in March this year,

he agreed to an interview
at an AfD event

in Thuringia.

He has repeatedly
rejected the charge that the AfD

is extremist
or that it stokes violence,

and accused
the intelligence services

of trying to suppress
legitimate opposition.

Okay?
(woman talking in background)

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: Domestic
intelligence is monitoring you

and your party because they say

you're an extremist threat
to democracy.

(speaking German):

(crowd cheers and applauds)

WILLIAMS: The AfD wasn't
always criticized as extremist.

(applauding)

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: In its early days,
it campaigned

on a platform
of conservative economic policy

and opposition
to the European Union.

The AfD basically started

as, like, a Euro-critical party.

WILLIAMS: Ann-Katrin Müller
covers the AfD

for the investigative magazine
"Der Spiegel."

Lots of people
thought they were conservative

in the beginning.

You couldn't see
when you looked at them

that they had right-wing
extremist ideas,

as well, implanted in it.

And over the last decade,
that changed with the AfD.

If you listen to what the
leading people of the party say,

then it's clear
where they want to go.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: After the influx
of refugees in 2015,

the AfD began espousing
anti-immigrant,

anti-Muslim rhetoric--

and their popularity shot up.

(speaking German):

(people applauding and shouting)

WILLIAMS:
On the national stage,

co-leaders Alice Weidel and
Tino Chrupalla have consistently

spoken out against immigrants,

but are still viewed as the more
moderate voices of the party.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: It's Björn Höcke
who is widely regarded

as the AfD's
most influential figure.

Björn Höcke is extraordinary

within the AfD because

he is really a quite old-
fashioned right-wing extremist.

He's not just a radical.

He's not just opposed
to immigration.

He is really one who favors
rewriting German history.

(audience applauding)

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: Höcke
is a former history teacher

who for years has been pushing
the boundaries

of political speech.

In 2017, he criticized
Berlin's Holocaust Memorial,

arguing that Germany
should reverse the way

it remembered its past.

(speaking German):

(audience clapping in rhythm,
chanting)

He talked about
the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin

as a sign of shame
in the heart of the nation.

He's obsessed with history.

WILLIAMS: Kai Arzheimer,
a political extremism expert,

has studied Höcke's rhetoric
about German history.

He is engaged

in whitewashing
what the Nazis did, basically.

Remembrance culture
is the idea that the crimes

of the Nazis
must never be forgotten

and that we should
educate future generations

in the knowledge

that Germany, in the past,
has committed those atrocities

to safeguard our future.

Basically, that's the idea.

But what Höcke wants

is this 100-degree reversal.

WILLIAMS: Höcke's statements
about the Holocaust Memorial

were widely criticized,

including by some members
of his own party.

Amid calls for him
to be expelled from the AfD,

he stated that he had
made a "mistake"

and that he'd learned "many
lessons."

But he continued
to court controversy.

In 2021,

Höcke gave a speech
which included a slogan

used by the Nazis:
"Everything for Germany."

(speaking German):

(chanting in German)

WILLIAMS: Under German law,
the phrase is illegal,

and Höcke was charged with
knowingly using a Nazi slogan.

He later called the Nazi era
"horrific," but claimed

he wasn't aware
of the slogan's history.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS:
Then he did it again.

(speaking German):

(crowd joins):

(cheering and applauding)

He went to Gera in front
of a public audience

and he made everybody scream,
"All for Germany."

After he already knew

that he was on criminal charges
for this.

Look, any misunderstandings?

Oh, he didn't know
what that means?

Let me remind you,
he is a history teacher,

a certified history teacher,

and he knows damned well
what this phrase means.

WILLIAMS: You've been charged
with issuing a Nazi comment,

"Everything for Germany."

Uh, you've been charged with a,
with a criminal offense,

because that's a crime.

(speaking German)
It's a, it's a Nazi saying.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS:
Shortly after our interview,

Höcke was found guilty
and fined more than $30,000.

Germany says it has foiled
a far-right plot

to overthrow the government.

More than 3,000 officers

took part in
an early morning raid.

WILLIAMS:
When news broke in late 2022

of the alleged plot
to overthrow the government,

fears about the AfD's links
to extremism intensified.

Now, this is
a very fringe movement,

potentially
a very violent movement.

(speaking German)

WILLIAMS:
Within hours of the arrests,

details began to emerge
about the alleged plotters.

Heinrich XIII, prince of Reuss,

an aristocrat from Thuringia...

(man talking in background)

WILLIAMS:
...who the authorities say

was a ringleader--

had a history of promoting
antisemitic conspiracy theories.

The representatives of the

Rothschild Dynasty are proud

of the fact that they financed

the French Revolution

and countless other

acts of aggression

such as wars around the globe.

WILLIAMS: Reuss and the
other suspects were alleged

to belong
to a disparate movement

with thousands of followers

known as the Reichsbürger,

citizens of the Reich...

I plead in favor
of a sovereign Germany...

WILLIAMS:
...who refuse to recognize

the modern German state.

(man speaking German)

WILLIAMS: Many Reichsbürger
are regarded as harmless.

But domestic
intelligence officials

say some of them
are far-right extremists,

including the alleged plotters.

(speaking German):

(applauding)

WILLIAMS: According
to intelligence officials,

AfD politician
Birgit Malsack-Winkemann

was at the center
of the conspiracy.

(speaking German):

(some members applauding,
others shouting)

She had been
a member of the Bundestag.

And in the party, she was,
um, quite well connected.

(speaking German):

(audience applauding)

She had meetings

and public events with
Alice Weidel, for example,

the party leader.

So, uh, yeah, the AfD

was right in the middle
of the Reichsbürger plot.

WILLIAMS:
Prosecutors allege

that Winkemann was
to become justice minister

for Prince Reuss's
new government

and had helped prepare the plan

for storming
the German parliament.

(in German):

(people talking in background)

WILLIAMS: More than
20 suspects face trial

on charges of terrorism
and treason.

All of them have denied
the charges.

Prince Reuss's lawyer conceded
he had met with other suspects

and discussed politics,

but denied he was a ringleader
of a planned coup.

Birgit Malsack-Winkemann
admitted to prosecutors

being a part of the group and
guiding some members

through the Reichstag, but
denied it had terrorist plans.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: The AfD's
co-leaders condemned the plot

and promised to expel Winkemann
from the party

if she was found guilty.

But they also criticized the
authorities for over-reacting.

(speaking German):

The party leaders
went in front of cameras

and were pretending
that it's just old people

who were, who wouldn't
be able to do anything.

So it was kind of laughable.

(speaking German)

It's not a funny thing.

It's not even a funny story,

because, uh,
they were very dangerous.

They were very well prepared.

Of course, they wouldn't have
overtaken Germany,

overthrown the government,

the federal government
and everybody,

but it would have been probably
a very bloody attack

on our governmental
institutions.

(drums beating,
whistles blowing)

WILLIAMS:
The Reichsbürger plot

did nothing to dent
the AfD's popularity.

(cheering and applauding)

WILLIAMS:
In 2023, they won a series

of local election victories,

polling over 30% in Thuringia.

Support for
the Alternative for Germany

is higher than ever before

in their ten-year history.

The AfD is currently polling

at around 19% nationally.

The party expects substantial
gains in state

elections next year...

WILLIAMS:
They'd been capitalizing

on widespread concern
about a new influx of refugees,

this time from Ukraine,

as well as inflation,
the cost of living,

and the government's
expensive green energy policies.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: And alarm
about the AfD's rising power

was about to take on
a new urgency.

In the eastern state
of Thuringia,

one voter in three
now backs the AfD.

WILLIAMS:
So, the evidence.

The evidence is here.

WILLIAMS:
That fall, journalists from

investigative news site
Correctiv were tipped off

about a secret far-right meeting

to be held in this hotel
outside the city of Potsdam.

So here's the hotel.
WILLIAMS: Right, right.

This is the shot from there.
WILLIAMS: Good.

And that was a useful angle?

Yes, very much so.

This is how we got
all the pictures.

WILLIAMS:
Correctiv journalist Jean Peters

helped lead
an undercover investigation

along with activists
from Greenpeace.

Shortly before the meeting,

he checked into the hotel

pretending to be
a regular guest.

I was the only guest,
as far as I know,

apart from the others
from the meeting.

And they were a bit surprised.

"Why is he here?"

We had cameras from outside,
two cars.

Me inside, I had a watch
with a camera inside.

So, this is the, the, actually,
the guy who is leading the party

in, in Sachsen-Anhalt,
this is Ulrich Siegmund.

WILLIAMS: AfD.
Yeah, AfD.

WILLIAMS:
So this is important evidence

that these people did
actually attend the meeting.

Yeah.

And there I saw
some letters on a table

with names on it, so I knew

I need this, I need the names.

So I was, like, turning around,
was saying hello,

shaking hands with a guy
from the conference

and, like,
"No, I'm just a guest."

Turned around again,
took my phone,

and filmed these letters.

WILLIAMS: Peters and
his team collected the names

of around two dozen people.

They included businessmen and
known far-right extremists,

as well as
conservative politicians

and senior members of the AfD.

Must have been
pretty nerve-wracking.

Yeah, this was
my adrenalin moment.

Um, all, all this.

This is, we look
into this place, right?

WILLIAMS:
According to accounts gathered

by the Correctiv team,

the attendees went on
to discuss a plan

for the mass deportation
of immigrants,

even those
with German citizenship.

It was literally
a master plan.

The deportation,
as I would say--

they call it "remigration"--
of millions of people,

including people
with a German passport.

♪ ♪

WILLIAMS:
The meeting's main speaker

was Austrian far-right activist
Martin Sellner.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: According to
Correctiv, he proposed that

Germany expel millions of
immigrants to

a so-called model city in North
Africa.

He called it remigration.

It's a bluntly racist idea.

So there's the real Germans,

those who have, uh, in their
blood and in their, you know,

they call it culture nowadays.

And there's those who should
go back to the countries

where they will be happier,
because, you know,

they're not real Germans,
so they will never be,

you know, assimilated,
uh, like, here.

WILLIAMS: Martin Sellner
would later confirm

he had presented the idea of
remigration at the meeting,

but denied he spoke of
deporting German citizens.

Four AfD members listened
to his presentation,

including Roland Hartwig,
an adviser

to the party's national
co-leader Alice Weidel.

They were talking
about a commission that would,

once in power, be very quick
in all these things.

They talked about money flowing
to realize this plan.

They talked about a
influence agency who could

get the people to be ready.

So you could feel
they are thinking beyond,

and they are ready to get power.

Hundreds of thousands
of people

have taken to the streets
across Germany.

The outrage follows reports
that members

of the Alternative for Germany
party had a meeting

with far-right extremists
to discuss plans

for mass deportation
of migrants...

...basically forcibly
reverse the flow

of the undesirable Germans.

(leaders chanting):
Say it loud! Say it clear!

(crowd chanting):
Refugees are welcome here!

WILLIAMS:
Correctiv's investigation

about the Potsdam meeting
sent shockwaves

through German society.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: The revelations
sparked mass protests

against the AfD...

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: ...in cities across
Germany over several weeks.

The Potsdam revelations
really brought the positions

of the AfD in sharp relief
for many people.

And it was really an
extraordinary story for Germans.

Of course, that was not just
about anonymous refugees.

This brought home the point
that this was,

at the end of the day, about
friends, neighbors, family,

people like you and me

who happen to have a parent, a
grandparent who came from Turkey

or from Africa or whatever.

(speaking German):

So that was
something really reminiscent

of what the Nazis did,
singling out

German citizens because they
did not fit into the stereotype

of the tall, blonde,
ethnically German guy

whose family hadn't moved
in 500 years.

And that created outrage
on a large scale.

PROTESTERS
(singing in German):

The demonstrations
really, really shook the AfD,

because the narrative
of the AfD was always,

in the last couple of years,

that they are the party
for the people,

that they bring out the people
to the streets.

Now suddenly, the demonstrations
against the AfD

were much bigger,
much, much bigger.

WILLIAMS: Under pressure,
the AfD said it had

no organizational or financial
links to the Potsdam meeting,

and that the plan to forcibly
deport German citizens

was not party policy.

Alice Weidel dismissed
the adviser who had attended.

But she also attacked
the reporters

who'd broken the story.

(speaking German):

♪ ♪

WILLIAMS: It was shortly
after the Potsdam revelations

that I visited the AfD heartland

of Thuringia
to interview Björn Höcke.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS:
Despite the backlash,

the AfD was still leading
in the polls,

meaning Höcke could soon become
prime minister of the state.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: If the AfD wins
power in

the September elections, it
could gain control on

the state level of the police
and domestic intelligence,

and funding for refugee support
and public media.

At a campaign event
in the town of Leinefelde,

Höcke was the main attraction.

(cheering and applauding)

One of his first targets was
the Correctiv investigation.

(applauding)

(speaking German):

(audience applauding,
exclaiming)

WILLIAMS: He then turned
to the issue of remigration.

(speaking German):

(applauding and cheering)

WILLIAMS: Höcke denies
that if the AfD came to power,

it would forcibly deport people
of immigrant background

who already have
German citizenship.

But he says that under the AfD,

immigrants who
have not assimilated

into German society would be
"encouraged" to leave.

(speaking German):

(people talking in background)

WILLIAMS: To some, Höcke's
rhetoric about minorities

recalls Germany's darkest days.

He uses stereotypes,
he uses this racism,

he uses this Nazi talk, uh,
he uses his revisionist ideas,

and all together,
all these statements

are basically against
the very principles

of our federal constitution.

(both speaking German)

WILLIAMS: But Höcke's
supporters in Thuringia

rejected the charge that
his rhetoric echoes the Nazis.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: Some people say
that the AfD is connected

to the far right.

They are connected to neo-Nazis.
Ja?

WILLIAMS: Are you worried
that, by supporting the AfD,

you are bringing Nazism back?

(speaking German):

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS:
Höcke told me that if he wins

power in Thuringia,

he intends to radically reform

the state's domestic
intelligence agency

which continues to monitor him
and his party.

(speaking German):

Mr. Höcke's said
very clearly,

if he becomes prime minister
or in charge in Thuringia

after the next state elections
in September-- possible--

first thing he's doing,
he's going to fire me.

The question would be, what,

how is my domestic intelligence
then working

when probably the next head

of the domestic intelligence
in Thuringia

is a right-wing extremist,
announced and put into place

by the very prime minister,
Björn Höcke, or his government?

He says very openly,

he wants to take away

this specific task of defensive
democracy, which was created

to, to fight against

those enemies from inside
democracy against democracy.

And I mean, that says it all.

WILLIAMS: When I first met
Katharina König-Preuss

back in 2021,

she was investigating
far-right networks

operating in the shadows online.

In 2024, she says the threat
is out in the open,

and she's focused
on fighting back

against the AfD in Thuringia.

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: Today she's
organizing a march in support

of a new refugee shelter.

(chanting):
Say it loud, say it clear!

Refugees are welcome here!

(speaking German):

(crowd chanting,
talking in background)

For people with,
uh, other skin color,

you see, that, uh,
have migration background,

in some parts of Thuringia,
it's no more safe for them.

And they, they told me
that people spit up,

uh, in front of them,
and not just one time.

That happens
two, three, seven, ten times.

Um, that the bus doesn't stop

when there are just migrants
at the bus station.

Little kids, like eight,
nine years old from Syria,

it's a racist hate
what they face.

(singing in German):

I'm scared what will happen
if we don't stop it.

Lots of them came to Germany
to be in a safe place.

They are no more safe
in Germany.

They're not safe now.

And if it goes on,

I don't know
what will happen to them.

(song continues)

(singing in German):

If we want to live in
democracy in ten, 15 years,

we have to act now.

Um, there's no time
to wait anymore.

And if we let them, um, if we
let them just a bit of power

in the governments, or local
or in Berlin, in Germany,

they'll use it.

And they'll use it
against their enemies.

First, maybe just
by cutting financial support

for refugees or for democratic,
um, projects, whatever.

But second, third,
what's going on?

What will happen?

And that's why
we have to stop them now.

They'll, they use democracy
to destroy democracy.

And we have to realize that.

Major victories by far-right
politicians across Europe.

WILLIAMS: In summer 2024,

far-right parties across Europe,

including the AfD,

made major gains

in EU elections.

Basically, European voters
have pulled the parliament

to the farthest right
it's ever been.

(whistles blowing,
crowd cheering)

(speaking German):

WILLIAMS: If Höcke
and the AfD win power

in Thuringia, it would be the
first time a far-right party

has controlled a German state
since the Nazis.

For Stephan Kramer,
that would be the final straw.

If the AfD gets into
a governmental responsibility,

if they are the ones
being in charge,

I'm leaving the country.

And I'm not saying that easily.

I've been living
all my life in Germany.

I'm raised in Germany.

I'm a reserve officer
in Germany.

I'm fighting for this democracy.

This is my home.

But once this first step takes
place, that's my red line.

WILLIAMS: Why not just
move to another part of Germany

if they're in Thuringia?

Because I'm saying
if it starts in one state,

it will go on in others.

We Germans seem to have
a cultural problem

with reading,
understanding, and listening

what dictators are saying,
writing, and doing.

When Hitler wrote "Mein Kampf,"
people said, "Ah, come on."

For God's sake,
read, listen, understand!

Take it for real what they say,

because most of the time,
they do what they say.

WILLIAMS: You continue
to have these associations

with the far right, and that's
what people are worried about.

They think you're going
to restrict the press,

you're going to deport people.

People believe this is
what's going to happen

if you run the country.

(speaking German):

(car chimes softly)

WILLIAMS:
It's now more than four years

since Armin Kurtovic's son Hamza

was shot dead by a far-right
gunman in the city of Hanau.

Last year, he was able to see
the police investigative report.

It showed that
the day before the shootings,

the killer had been watching
videos of a far-right event

where Björn Höcke was speaking.

(speaking German):

♪ ♪

Captioned by

Media Access Group at WGBH

access.wgbh.org

For more on this and other
"FRONTLINE" programs,

visit our website at
pbs.org/frontline.

♪ ♪

FRONTLINE's "Germany's Enemy
Within" is available on

Amazon Prime Video.

♪ ♪