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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:21,195 --> 00:00:22,694 So, it was in the winter of 2015, 2 00:00:22,718 --> 00:00:26,983 I was at the house with my parents, 3 00:00:27,027 --> 00:00:30,204 with my wife and my kids. 4 00:00:30,247 --> 00:00:32,641 And everybody was sick, so really sick. 5 00:00:32,684 --> 00:00:36,384 I was the last one standing. 6 00:00:36,427 --> 00:00:40,388 Then I got this first ping, this first message from a person who 7 00:00:40,431 --> 00:00:44,957 called himself John Doe, and asked if I would be interested 8 00:00:45,001 --> 00:00:46,001 in data. 9 00:01:34,529 --> 00:01:36,333 We turn now to the bombshell causing shockwaves 10 00:01:36,357 --> 00:01:38,968 around the world, the so-called Panama Papers. 11 00:01:42,276 --> 00:01:44,036 What may be the largest leak of secret documents 12 00:01:44,060 --> 00:01:45,060 in history. 13 00:01:47,803 --> 00:01:49,737 Massive document leak allegedly showing 14 00:01:49,761 --> 00:01:52,373 how world leaders and the mega-rich hide billions 15 00:01:52,416 --> 00:01:53,416 of dollars. 16 00:01:56,507 --> 00:01:59,119 A new report which finds eight billionaires 17 00:01:59,162 --> 00:02:02,557 own as much wealth as the poorest half of the 18 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:03,600 world's population. 19 00:02:06,169 --> 00:02:08,104 The papers paint a picture of wide-spread 20 00:02:08,128 --> 00:02:09,564 corruption and tax evasion. 21 00:02:13,263 --> 00:02:14,762 Now we have journalists stepping in, 22 00:02:14,786 --> 00:02:17,093 trying to tear down those barriers of secrecy and exposing 23 00:02:17,137 --> 00:02:18,964 what is happening behind closed doors. 24 00:02:21,576 --> 00:02:23,578 The revelation now kicking off a 25 00:02:23,621 --> 00:02:24,621 world-wide investigation. 26 00:02:27,756 --> 00:02:29,255 The whole issue here is about secrecy. 27 00:02:29,279 --> 00:02:32,152 People can create shell corporations and secretly move 28 00:02:32,195 --> 00:02:33,195 money around. 29 00:02:35,633 --> 00:02:37,263 World-wide estimates suggest tens of 30 00:02:37,287 --> 00:02:39,681 trillions of dollars are hidden in off-shore accounts. 31 00:02:43,467 --> 00:02:45,358 What's really shocking is the fact that twelve 32 00:02:45,382 --> 00:02:48,690 current or former heads of state are being accused in 33 00:02:48,733 --> 00:02:49,733 these papers. 34 00:02:52,781 --> 00:02:54,541 A journalist investigating the Panama Papers 35 00:02:54,565 --> 00:02:57,220 has been killed, sending other journalists into hiding for fear 36 00:02:57,264 --> 00:02:58,264 of their safety. 37 00:03:01,746 --> 00:03:03,637 The law firm is denying any wrongdoing, 38 00:03:03,661 --> 00:03:06,360 but this scandal, the Panama Papers, 39 00:03:06,403 --> 00:03:07,403 is just beginning. 40 00:03:42,396 --> 00:03:46,269 My viewpoint is entirely my own. 41 00:03:46,313 --> 00:03:50,317 Income inequality is one of the defining issues of our time. 42 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,234 It affects all of us, the world over. 43 00:03:54,277 --> 00:03:56,584 Still, questions remain. 44 00:03:56,627 --> 00:03:57,628 Why? 45 00:03:57,672 --> 00:03:59,978 And why now? 46 00:04:00,022 --> 00:04:01,782 The Panama Papers provide a compelling answer to 47 00:04:01,806 --> 00:04:03,373 these questions. 48 00:04:03,417 --> 00:04:06,550 Massive, pervasive corruption. 49 00:04:06,594 --> 00:04:09,597 It's not a coincidence that the answers come from a law firm. 50 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,731 Mossack Fonseca used its influence to write and bend laws 51 00:04:13,775 --> 00:04:17,996 worldwide to favor the interest of criminals over a period 52 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,085 of decades. 53 00:04:35,362 --> 00:04:37,494 In the first day and the first days, 54 00:04:37,538 --> 00:04:42,456 it was so fascinating because this window in our world opened 55 00:04:42,499 --> 00:04:47,461 where nobody had ever looked in. 56 00:04:47,504 --> 00:04:48,940 I always wanted to write. 57 00:04:48,984 --> 00:04:51,465 Um, I wanted to become a novelist, 58 00:04:51,508 --> 00:04:56,252 but that didn't really work out, so I intended to become a 59 00:04:56,296 --> 00:04:57,688 sports writer. 60 00:04:57,732 --> 00:05:00,212 And that also didn't work out, and here I am, so... 61 00:05:06,654 --> 00:05:10,179 Well, I think it's, um, more or less the defense for 62 00:05:10,222 --> 00:05:12,877 injustice in some way. 63 00:05:12,921 --> 00:05:16,359 We founded our own paper in Rosenheim, 64 00:05:16,403 --> 00:05:19,362 where I come from, because we had the feeling that all the 65 00:05:19,406 --> 00:05:24,541 media there are very much right-wing orientated and that 66 00:05:24,585 --> 00:05:27,283 your important stories are not really told. 67 00:05:30,808 --> 00:05:33,681 The fact that the data of Mossack Fonseca, 68 00:05:33,724 --> 00:05:36,945 which I knew as a black hole. 69 00:05:36,988 --> 00:05:39,382 They work with all kinds of criminals. 70 00:05:39,426 --> 00:05:41,863 You know, they all hold the information that people who want 71 00:05:41,906 --> 00:05:44,344 to keep their secrets put in there to disappear from 72 00:05:44,387 --> 00:05:45,736 the public. 73 00:05:45,780 --> 00:05:48,348 So I knew the company, and I thought, 74 00:05:48,391 --> 00:05:51,481 you know, this guy has access to the inner stuff of 75 00:05:51,525 --> 00:05:52,917 Mossack Fonseca. 76 00:05:52,961 --> 00:05:55,311 I'm the guy who wants to have it. 77 00:06:18,726 --> 00:06:21,381 Mossack Fonseca is a law firm from Panama, 78 00:06:21,424 --> 00:06:25,602 and their business is secrecy. 79 00:06:25,646 --> 00:06:27,909 If you have about a thousand euros, 80 00:06:27,952 --> 00:06:29,539 you can buy an offshore company, it's quite easy, 81 00:06:29,563 --> 00:06:31,956 and then you can even buy, like, 82 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,917 shame directors which means that all the business you do, 83 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,486 someone else is signing, someone else is "doing the business". 84 00:06:39,529 --> 00:06:42,750 So no one actually knows that you own stuff, 85 00:06:42,793 --> 00:06:44,795 and you can hide all your businesses. 86 00:06:46,580 --> 00:06:50,105 There's a world that is only accessible for the powerful and 87 00:06:50,148 --> 00:06:52,586 the richest, where they hide their money, 88 00:06:52,629 --> 00:06:55,458 where they enable money laundering, 89 00:06:55,502 --> 00:06:58,853 corruption, and actually, the plundering of all continents. 90 00:06:58,896 --> 00:07:04,815 Since 2015, the richest one percent have 91 00:07:04,859 --> 00:07:08,166 been more wealthy than the rest of the world's 92 00:07:08,210 --> 00:07:09,951 population combined. 93 00:07:09,994 --> 00:07:13,345 Now Oxfam says the poorest 10% have seen their income increase 94 00:07:13,389 --> 00:07:19,569 by less than $3 a year between 1988 and 2011. 95 00:07:19,613 --> 00:07:22,746 If we have streets that are in not a good condition, 96 00:07:22,790 --> 00:07:26,794 if we do not have enough preschool places or good schools 97 00:07:26,837 --> 00:07:30,101 or if we do have to pay too much money for universities, 98 00:07:30,145 --> 00:07:32,800 that is due to the fact that there's so many people out there 99 00:07:32,843 --> 00:07:35,933 that are avoiding and evading taxes. 100 00:07:35,977 --> 00:07:38,849 That's a problem that is concerning every country all 101 00:07:38,893 --> 00:07:40,721 around the world, and every one of us. 102 00:07:50,513 --> 00:07:52,833 In the first days, it didn't seem like this is the 103 00:07:52,863 --> 00:07:57,477 biggest leak in history of journalism. 104 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,218 It only was, this seems to be a really good story. 105 00:08:02,177 --> 00:08:05,354 The amount of data that Bastian and me received 106 00:08:05,397 --> 00:08:06,442 grew and grew. 107 00:08:06,486 --> 00:08:08,531 It was really like an addiction. 108 00:08:08,575 --> 00:08:11,316 I spent night and day clicking through the data. 109 00:08:13,014 --> 00:08:17,018 When we then found the first names of heads of state 110 00:08:17,061 --> 00:08:20,630 heads of government. 111 00:08:20,674 --> 00:08:22,652 We found, you know, the best friend of Vladimir Putin. 112 00:08:22,676 --> 00:08:28,420 We found the Icelandic Prime Minister. 113 00:08:28,464 --> 00:08:31,162 Even celebrities. 114 00:08:31,206 --> 00:08:32,792 We always found something that I thought this is really 115 00:08:32,816 --> 00:08:34,339 worth reporting. 116 00:08:37,995 --> 00:08:41,782 If you find money tied to Bashar Al-Assad, 117 00:08:41,825 --> 00:08:45,176 and to Vladimir Putin, and to other dictators, 118 00:08:45,220 --> 00:08:50,442 then you somehow have the feeling maybe it's not a good 119 00:08:50,486 --> 00:08:52,053 idea that only I know. 120 00:08:52,096 --> 00:08:54,011 Some colleagues asked us, actually, 121 00:08:54,055 --> 00:08:56,666 are you crazy sharing a scoop? 122 00:08:56,710 --> 00:08:59,930 Giving away something our newspaper could have alone? 123 00:08:59,974 --> 00:09:05,066 But by sharing, we enabled this investigation to be something 124 00:09:05,109 --> 00:09:07,634 big and to make our investigations better. 125 00:09:13,509 --> 00:09:16,512 So we reached out to the ICIJ in Washington and 126 00:09:16,556 --> 00:09:17,731 tracked the data. 127 00:09:23,606 --> 00:09:25,695 ICIJ was created 20 years ago, 128 00:09:25,739 --> 00:09:30,265 and we can say that its mission is to defeat the traditional 129 00:09:30,308 --> 00:09:35,879 model of the lone wolf investigative reporter. 130 00:09:35,923 --> 00:09:39,796 The lone wolf investigative reporter is all for herself or 131 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:44,235 himself, and so ICIJ was created as a network of investigative 132 00:09:44,279 --> 00:09:47,804 reporters in more than 60 countries who collaborate on 133 00:09:47,848 --> 00:09:51,634 stories that are too complex, and that need to be told from a 134 00:09:51,678 --> 00:09:54,506 collective perspective, from a collaborative perspective, 135 00:09:54,550 --> 00:09:56,552 that need to be told across borders, 136 00:09:56,596 --> 00:09:57,640 in collaboration. 137 00:09:57,684 --> 00:10:01,949 The general meeting is at 3:45. 138 00:10:01,992 --> 00:10:04,604 I am originally from Argentina. 139 00:10:04,647 --> 00:10:07,781 I went into journalism fairly young at 18, 140 00:10:07,824 --> 00:10:09,913 decided to be a journalist. 141 00:10:09,957 --> 00:10:13,917 I saw a lot of, uh, inequality in my country growing up, 142 00:10:13,961 --> 00:10:17,965 a lot of corruption, and I wanted to do something about it, 143 00:10:18,008 --> 00:10:19,967 but not from an activist point of view, 144 00:10:20,010 --> 00:10:21,882 but from a journalistic point of view. 145 00:10:23,710 --> 00:10:26,800 When we started receiving the data from 146 00:10:26,843 --> 00:10:30,847 SuĆ¼ddeutsche Zeitung and analyzing it and realizing that 147 00:10:30,891 --> 00:10:33,110 it was connected to 200 countries, 148 00:10:33,154 --> 00:10:36,200 that there were thousands of public figures and prime 149 00:10:36,244 --> 00:10:39,856 ministers and presidents and princesses and queens, 150 00:10:39,900 --> 00:10:44,252 and we have to do the biggest investigation we have ever done 151 00:10:44,295 --> 00:10:46,123 to do justice to this data. 152 00:10:46,167 --> 00:10:49,170 I have to admit, my first thought was skepticism 153 00:10:49,213 --> 00:10:50,756 because I thought, well, we've done these stories on 154 00:10:50,780 --> 00:10:51,825 off-shore before. 155 00:10:51,868 --> 00:10:53,478 We've done, I think at that stage, 156 00:10:53,522 --> 00:10:56,003 four or five of them, and I was wondering how it was gonna be 157 00:10:56,046 --> 00:10:58,024 possible to get all the media partners interested in doing 158 00:10:58,048 --> 00:11:00,921 another story about off-shore, but we really had cracked the 159 00:11:00,964 --> 00:11:02,226 off-shore. 160 00:11:02,270 --> 00:11:03,551 Well, even though we had done previous stories, 161 00:11:03,575 --> 00:11:05,162 we didn't have this kind of information before, 162 00:11:05,186 --> 00:11:07,667 and I really thought it was a breakthrough. 163 00:11:08,885 --> 00:11:11,714 11.5 million documents. 164 00:11:11,758 --> 00:11:14,717 You have all these complex kind of documents, 165 00:11:14,761 --> 00:11:18,025 some that you familiarize with, but sometimes you also have 166 00:11:18,068 --> 00:11:19,243 databases within them. 167 00:11:19,287 --> 00:11:21,332 They were mostly emails, 168 00:11:21,376 --> 00:11:24,205 PDFs and everything else, but because there were so many 169 00:11:24,248 --> 00:11:26,662 millions of documents, we had to make it easy for journalists to 170 00:11:26,686 --> 00:11:29,210 search through them by using data sets, 171 00:11:29,253 --> 00:11:32,779 for example, all the clients of Mossack Fonseca, 172 00:11:32,822 --> 00:11:35,999 all the intermediaries, clients per country, 173 00:11:36,043 --> 00:11:37,479 and so on. 174 00:11:37,522 --> 00:11:40,047 Every company has a number and a folder, 175 00:11:40,090 --> 00:11:41,744 so it's very easy to navigate, actually, 176 00:11:41,788 --> 00:11:43,746 in the original data. 177 00:11:43,790 --> 00:11:47,707 Then we upload it to a platform that we call 178 00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:49,883 "Blacklight", and this becomes like, 179 00:11:49,926 --> 00:11:53,408 Google, where you have a search box. 180 00:11:53,451 --> 00:11:56,977 So you're actually able to figure out what are some names 181 00:11:57,020 --> 00:12:00,589 of people of public interest in your country are present in 182 00:12:00,632 --> 00:12:02,460 that data. 183 00:12:02,504 --> 00:12:04,985 One big danger here was that someone was feeding us the 184 00:12:05,028 --> 00:12:08,075 documents and then would perhaps slip in some false information 185 00:12:08,118 --> 00:12:09,380 into the documents. 186 00:12:09,424 --> 00:12:11,184 We wanted to make sure that wasn't happening. 187 00:12:11,208 --> 00:12:13,994 We had done some work on Mossack Fonseca in the past, 188 00:12:14,037 --> 00:12:16,997 so we actually had a set of documents that we could compare 189 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,782 the information we were getting from the new source, 190 00:12:19,826 --> 00:12:22,263 the John Doe source, with what we had before. 191 00:12:22,306 --> 00:12:25,396 So my, you know, early stage was to to keep questioning 192 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,853 everything and to make sure that we were jumping every hurdle. 193 00:12:27,877 --> 00:12:33,187 We decided to reconstruct a database of the 194 00:12:33,230 --> 00:12:38,018 companies and the shareholders connected to Mossack Fonseca. 195 00:12:38,061 --> 00:12:41,891 It's called Linkurious, and you just start typing people's 196 00:12:41,935 --> 00:12:43,414 names, or companies' names. 197 00:12:43,458 --> 00:12:45,677 You will get a circle called a node, 198 00:12:45,721 --> 00:12:48,898 and if you click on it, it start expanding, 199 00:12:48,942 --> 00:12:52,902 and then you will be able to see how many companies a person is 200 00:12:52,946 --> 00:12:56,819 connected to or who are the shareholders behind a company. 201 00:12:56,863 --> 00:13:00,605 We literally took months to make available this 202 00:13:00,649 --> 00:13:03,783 information to the journalists, and we were making it available 203 00:13:03,826 --> 00:13:06,481 in batches up until the very end. 204 00:13:06,524 --> 00:13:10,224 I think the last batch of information of documents was 205 00:13:10,267 --> 00:13:13,575 released perhaps a couple of months before publication. 206 00:13:25,848 --> 00:13:27,086 You don't just call great reporters that you have 207 00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:28,720 heard of. 208 00:13:28,764 --> 00:13:32,463 You have to call people that you know you can work with who are 209 00:13:32,507 --> 00:13:35,510 excellent reporters, but also people that you can trust. 210 00:13:43,213 --> 00:13:46,738 We had been getting to know the team at McClatchy, 211 00:13:46,782 --> 00:13:48,958 and they ticked every box. 212 00:13:49,002 --> 00:13:50,830 They really wanted to work as a team. 213 00:13:53,876 --> 00:13:56,009 Who's surprised that bad guys hide their money? 214 00:13:56,052 --> 00:13:59,142 You know, nobody was saying that was the surprise. 215 00:13:59,186 --> 00:14:01,884 The surprise is, yeah, you pull this veil back and you see this 216 00:14:01,928 --> 00:14:03,407 is how they do it. 217 00:14:03,451 --> 00:14:05,061 Everything you thought was happening, 218 00:14:05,105 --> 00:14:06,584 here's the evidence. 219 00:14:06,628 --> 00:14:08,151 It is. 220 00:14:08,195 --> 00:14:09,805 Yeah, because of... 221 00:14:09,849 --> 00:14:12,155 I'm a former South America Bureau Chief for the company, 222 00:14:12,199 --> 00:14:15,071 and Mossack Fonseca is a Latin company, 223 00:14:15,115 --> 00:14:19,032 Latin clients, and so it was an area that I could help with. 224 00:14:19,075 --> 00:14:21,382 I grew up in-in Ecuador as a child. 225 00:14:21,425 --> 00:14:23,993 I grew up a little different than most Americans because I 226 00:14:24,037 --> 00:14:27,040 saw the poverty, I saw kids with no legs begging in front of the 227 00:14:27,083 --> 00:14:31,958 soccer stadium on Saturdays, and so you know this different world 228 00:14:32,001 --> 00:14:35,875 exists, but to have it so spelled out clearly where you 229 00:14:35,918 --> 00:14:38,529 can see. 230 00:14:38,573 --> 00:14:40,401 You can start to see these connections, 231 00:14:40,444 --> 00:14:42,838 and then the rest of it is kind of the legwork. 232 00:14:42,882 --> 00:14:44,424 Okay, you know they have an offshore account, 233 00:14:44,448 --> 00:14:46,537 so what? 234 00:14:46,581 --> 00:14:48,104 You know, what do you do from there? 235 00:14:48,148 --> 00:14:49,976 What more can you say about that? 236 00:14:55,546 --> 00:14:58,201 Usually as a, as a reporter, 237 00:14:58,245 --> 00:15:02,684 you have tips, you have some kind of roadmap of where you 238 00:15:02,727 --> 00:15:04,033 want to go with a story. 239 00:15:04,077 --> 00:15:07,732 With this, we had absolutely no roadmap. 240 00:15:10,997 --> 00:15:13,390 We weren't the big guys, you know? 241 00:15:13,434 --> 00:15:17,133 We were the ones who tried to break stories that the big guys 242 00:15:17,177 --> 00:15:18,482 didn't have. 243 00:15:18,526 --> 00:15:21,007 We were the, the underdogs, to some degree. 244 00:15:21,050 --> 00:15:24,488 It was also something that we had to kind of sell to our 245 00:15:24,532 --> 00:15:28,057 company at the time, because they had decided that they were 246 00:15:28,101 --> 00:15:30,538 gonna shut their foreign bureaus. 247 00:15:30,581 --> 00:15:33,497 They were wondering what value, 248 00:15:33,541 --> 00:15:36,413 foreign news would have to their readers. 249 00:15:36,457 --> 00:15:40,940 Why are people gonna care that the rich don't pay their taxes 250 00:15:40,983 --> 00:15:43,246 and crooks are crooks? 251 00:15:43,290 --> 00:15:46,467 Everyone knows that. 252 00:15:46,510 --> 00:15:50,514 What he didn't understand is that this was such an enormous 253 00:15:50,558 --> 00:15:52,908 amount of data, it was revealing a, 254 00:15:52,952 --> 00:15:54,127 a whole world. 255 00:15:54,170 --> 00:15:56,825 It wasn't just a story about offshores; 256 00:15:56,868 --> 00:15:58,609 It was, it was the goods. 257 00:15:58,653 --> 00:16:01,177 We had the goods on how it worked. 258 00:16:10,056 --> 00:16:13,581 I'm a nerd about journalism. 259 00:16:13,624 --> 00:16:16,062 I had been a journalist for over 15 years, 260 00:16:16,105 --> 00:16:21,067 and I look at myself as a person that wants to be the 261 00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:25,549 pipeline for minority groups to publish their story, 262 00:16:25,593 --> 00:16:29,989 to ask questions inside the government and find answers for 263 00:16:30,032 --> 00:16:31,032 those groups. 264 00:16:34,471 --> 00:16:35,971 I got a call from Marina Walker, 265 00:16:35,995 --> 00:16:38,301 the Deputy Director of ICIJ. 266 00:16:38,345 --> 00:16:41,478 She asked me, do-do you want to work on a leak? 267 00:16:41,522 --> 00:16:47,528 And we have a lot of Icelandic names in the leak. 268 00:16:47,571 --> 00:16:51,358 And we have your prime minister there and his wife. 269 00:16:51,401 --> 00:16:54,361 And at that moment, uh, everything froze in front of me. 270 00:16:57,059 --> 00:17:00,149 I thought to myself, wow, this is going to be a bomb here 271 00:17:00,193 --> 00:17:02,238 in Iceland. 272 00:17:02,282 --> 00:17:05,328 Nobody knew about his offshore company called Wintris. 273 00:17:07,939 --> 00:17:10,464 If you Googled Wintris before the Panama Papers, 274 00:17:10,507 --> 00:17:14,598 you couldn't find anything, and the prime minister hadn't been 275 00:17:14,642 --> 00:17:18,211 transparent about his involvement into the 276 00:17:18,254 --> 00:17:19,908 offshore world. 277 00:17:19,951 --> 00:17:23,216 Ladies and gentlemen, it's a pleasure for me to be here today 278 00:17:23,259 --> 00:17:25,435 at Iceland Investment Forum. 279 00:17:25,479 --> 00:17:29,091 It takes time for any given country to resurface from 280 00:17:29,135 --> 00:17:33,400 political turmoil after a large-scale economic crisis. 281 00:17:33,443 --> 00:17:35,576 We've already made significant progress, 282 00:17:35,619 --> 00:17:38,666 and I'm convinced that the policy this government has put 283 00:17:38,709 --> 00:17:43,410 forward is a sound one, and that is what bring further benefits. 284 00:17:43,453 --> 00:17:46,587 I have to admit that when you hear the prime minister is 285 00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:50,634 involved, his wife and other big business, 286 00:17:50,678 --> 00:17:53,289 people in Iceland very powerful people, 287 00:17:53,333 --> 00:17:57,032 then you start to think about what will happen? 288 00:17:57,076 --> 00:18:00,253 Hope to see you and your money in Iceland. 289 00:18:05,649 --> 00:18:07,192 At this point, we continue on to London, 290 00:18:07,216 --> 00:18:10,741 and I met with The Guardian, because I knew if they were 291 00:18:10,785 --> 00:18:13,353 involved that it'd be easier to convince other media partners to 292 00:18:13,396 --> 00:18:15,094 get involved. 293 00:18:16,312 --> 00:18:18,401 This was a really important leak. 294 00:18:18,445 --> 00:18:21,883 I think, I think we've had three super leaks this century so far. 295 00:18:24,277 --> 00:18:27,062 We have Wikileaks where we got the kind of unmediated view 296 00:18:27,106 --> 00:18:29,064 of the most powerful country on Earth, 297 00:18:29,108 --> 00:18:30,283 the United States. 298 00:18:30,326 --> 00:18:32,111 The biggest leak of U.S. 299 00:18:32,154 --> 00:18:33,634 military secrets ever. 300 00:18:33,677 --> 00:18:36,289 Website Wikileaks hit the "send" button on some 400,000 301 00:18:36,332 --> 00:18:38,552 sensitive documents about the Iraq war. 302 00:18:39,814 --> 00:18:41,816 Then we had Snowden who came along, 303 00:18:41,859 --> 00:18:45,036 who proved that all of our data is being collected all the time, 304 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,603 that we're being surveilled. 305 00:18:46,647 --> 00:18:49,606 I, sitting at my desk, uh, certainly had the authorities 306 00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:54,263 to wiretap anyone from you or your accountant to a federal 307 00:18:54,307 --> 00:18:56,787 judge to even the President, if I had a personal email. 308 00:18:56,831 --> 00:18:59,191 He sort of lifted what I would call mass surveillance. 309 00:18:59,225 --> 00:19:02,184 And then we had the Panama Papers. 310 00:19:02,228 --> 00:19:06,406 We had emails, uh, between the law firm and what they called 311 00:19:06,449 --> 00:19:08,799 their clients, which typically meant other intermediaries, 312 00:19:08,843 --> 00:19:11,715 banks, lawyers, accountants all over the world. 313 00:19:11,759 --> 00:19:14,762 We had passport scans and we had kind of incorporation documents, 314 00:19:14,805 --> 00:19:18,026 we had a lot of postage stamps from these very 315 00:19:18,069 --> 00:19:19,636 exotic locations. 316 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,353 Pretty much all of it was set up so that no one can kind of 317 00:19:21,377 --> 00:19:22,944 peer inside. 318 00:19:22,987 --> 00:19:26,382 And, and suddenly, we had a kind of treasure trove of stuff. 319 00:19:26,426 --> 00:19:28,428 I've been on The Guardian for about 20 years. 320 00:19:28,471 --> 00:19:30,560 12 years as a foreign correspondent bouncing around 321 00:19:30,604 --> 00:19:32,519 the world: Afghanistan, Iraq, Berlin, 322 00:19:32,562 --> 00:19:34,651 and then I was placed into Moscow, 323 00:19:34,695 --> 00:19:37,263 where I kind of really plunged into what you might call kind of 324 00:19:37,306 --> 00:19:39,439 post-Soviet muck. 325 00:19:39,482 --> 00:19:42,616 Corruption, espionage, Vladimir Putin, 326 00:19:42,659 --> 00:19:46,533 his money, question mark, and so on. 327 00:19:49,710 --> 00:19:51,233 You're not just going in, 328 00:19:51,277 --> 00:19:52,515 going oh, look, you know, here's the whole story in black and 329 00:19:52,539 --> 00:19:53,670 white for me. 330 00:19:53,714 --> 00:19:55,106 It's a lot of detective work, of, 331 00:19:55,150 --> 00:19:59,154 of painstaking piecing together. 332 00:20:01,243 --> 00:20:03,419 You don't just dump stuff. 333 00:20:03,463 --> 00:20:06,944 You find the narratives, you make them matter to people. 334 00:20:08,555 --> 00:20:12,298 I joined The Guardian in 2011 as telecoms correspondent, 335 00:20:12,341 --> 00:20:14,754 and, because I speak French, I was pulled into an investigation 336 00:20:14,778 --> 00:20:17,694 into HSBC Bank, and its Swiss operation, 337 00:20:17,738 --> 00:20:20,262 which was the first ICIJ investigation that I'd 338 00:20:20,306 --> 00:20:21,916 worked on. 339 00:20:21,959 --> 00:20:23,633 The massive investigation by media outlets 340 00:20:23,657 --> 00:20:26,268 including France's Le Monde and Britain's Guardian Newspaper. 341 00:20:26,312 --> 00:20:29,750 They've revealed that HSBC Swiss private banking arm has helped 342 00:20:29,793 --> 00:20:32,274 thousands of wealthy clients to evade tax. 343 00:20:32,318 --> 00:20:34,363 It was a big story over here, 344 00:20:34,407 --> 00:20:38,280 and then I, I got brought in to do the Panama Papers a few month 345 00:20:38,324 --> 00:20:40,195 after that. 346 00:20:45,940 --> 00:20:47,918 I knew that there were companies in Malta that were 347 00:20:47,942 --> 00:20:51,685 using Mossack Fonseca to set up companies in Panama for their 348 00:20:51,728 --> 00:20:57,299 clients, but what I never imagined was that I would find 349 00:20:57,343 --> 00:21:01,477 the name of a cabinet minister in there. 350 00:21:01,521 --> 00:21:04,350 There were three companies that were set up. 351 00:21:04,393 --> 00:21:07,701 The names of Konrad Mizzi and of Konrad Mizzi's wife, 352 00:21:07,744 --> 00:21:11,444 Sai Mizzi, and Konrad Mizzi's children appeared in 353 00:21:11,487 --> 00:21:14,055 the documentation. 354 00:21:14,098 --> 00:21:18,364 There were never any names given for the third company, Egrant. 355 00:21:21,018 --> 00:21:23,586 My mother, through a different sources, 356 00:21:23,630 --> 00:21:28,896 one of who worked in a bank where documentation related to 357 00:21:28,939 --> 00:21:33,030 this third company was kept, worked out that the shares were 358 00:21:33,074 --> 00:21:35,598 being held in the name of the Prime Minister's wife, 359 00:21:35,642 --> 00:21:38,645 Michelle Muscat. 360 00:21:38,688 --> 00:21:41,517 I think that's when we realized that what we were dealing with 361 00:21:41,561 --> 00:21:45,304 in Malta was a system of state capture, 362 00:21:45,347 --> 00:21:48,089 that every institution of the state has been captured by 363 00:21:48,132 --> 00:21:49,873 this gang. 364 00:21:49,917 --> 00:21:52,006 They're laundering money, they're laundering campaign 365 00:21:52,049 --> 00:21:55,488 funding, and they're going to go to prison for a long time. 366 00:21:55,531 --> 00:21:57,664 I was sure of that at the time. 367 00:22:02,756 --> 00:22:05,541 This is all about secrecy and the ability to hide 368 00:22:05,585 --> 00:22:07,326 your money, your assets. 369 00:22:07,369 --> 00:22:09,371 The rich and the super-rich, 370 00:22:09,415 --> 00:22:11,895 together with most sort of multi-national corporations, 371 00:22:11,939 --> 00:22:15,986 essentially exited quietly, sort of slipped off stage from the 372 00:22:16,030 --> 00:22:18,598 messy business of-of-of universal taxation some 373 00:22:18,641 --> 00:22:20,556 time ago. 374 00:22:23,603 --> 00:22:25,561 Before I started work on the Panama Papers, 375 00:22:25,605 --> 00:22:28,477 I thought that offshore was a kind of small, 376 00:22:28,521 --> 00:22:31,915 minor, who cares, you know, little aspect of the economic 377 00:22:31,959 --> 00:22:34,396 system we knew not so much about, 378 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,398 and after reading the Panama Papers, 379 00:22:36,442 --> 00:22:38,357 I realized it is the economic system. 380 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,010 It is the system. 381 00:22:40,054 --> 00:22:42,535 Eight trillion dollars is stuffed in tax havens, 382 00:22:42,578 --> 00:22:44,624 western countries, including the U.S., 383 00:22:44,667 --> 00:22:47,366 are losing about 200 billion dollars a year in tax revenues. 384 00:22:51,544 --> 00:22:53,459 We were still debating, at that time, 385 00:22:53,502 --> 00:22:56,810 whether tax avoidance was a matter of public interest or 386 00:22:56,853 --> 00:22:59,049 not, or could you simply do what you liked with your money? 387 00:22:59,073 --> 00:23:01,118 But what it did establish for us, 388 00:23:01,162 --> 00:23:03,773 the scale of it, it just showed you there were underground 389 00:23:03,817 --> 00:23:07,211 rivers of money washing around the globe unbeknownst to 390 00:23:07,255 --> 00:23:09,039 most people. 391 00:23:09,083 --> 00:23:12,565 We are writing about an incredibly damaging part of our 392 00:23:12,608 --> 00:23:16,917 economy that has become so central and so mainstream that 393 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,616 it's creating French revolution levels of inequality 394 00:23:20,660 --> 00:23:22,531 and injustice. 395 00:23:24,838 --> 00:23:29,669 And the challenge we have is to be able to bring this story home 396 00:23:29,712 --> 00:23:33,934 to people, to show them that this story matters to you, 397 00:23:33,977 --> 00:23:37,067 affects your life, and guess what? 398 00:23:37,111 --> 00:23:40,114 You are the victim in this story. 399 00:24:09,099 --> 00:24:10,425 Decisions have been made that 400 00:24:10,449 --> 00:24:13,060 have spared the wealthy, while focusing instead on 401 00:24:13,103 --> 00:24:16,672 reining in middle and low-income citizens. 402 00:24:18,282 --> 00:24:20,633 The collective impact of these failures has been a complete 403 00:24:20,676 --> 00:24:23,984 erosion of ethical standards, ultimately leading to a novel 404 00:24:24,027 --> 00:24:27,466 system we still call capitalism, but which is tantamount to 405 00:24:27,509 --> 00:24:31,295 economic slavery. 406 00:24:32,209 --> 00:24:34,951 Hopelessly backward and inefficient courts have failed. 407 00:24:34,995 --> 00:24:37,432 Judges have too often acquiesced to the arguments of the rich 408 00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:41,610 whose lawyers, and not just Mossack Fonseca, 409 00:24:41,654 --> 00:24:44,221 are well-trained in honoring the letter of the law while 410 00:24:44,265 --> 00:24:47,355 simultaneously doing everything in their power to desecrate 411 00:24:47,398 --> 00:24:49,792 its spirit. 412 00:24:49,836 --> 00:24:50,793 Leave your number, and I will get back to you as 413 00:24:50,837 --> 00:24:51,838 soon as I can. 414 00:24:51,881 --> 00:24:52,881 Thank you very much. 415 00:24:53,492 --> 00:24:54,556 Ben, hey, it's Kevin. 416 00:24:54,580 --> 00:24:56,712 Since we have outstanding matters, 417 00:24:56,756 --> 00:24:57,452 give me a shout back. 418 00:24:57,496 --> 00:24:59,541 Bye. 419 00:24:59,585 --> 00:25:01,848 One of the things that is particularly interesting about 420 00:25:01,891 --> 00:25:05,068 the Panama Papers is you have all the email traffic, 421 00:25:05,112 --> 00:25:07,854 all these different people who appear in these email threads 422 00:25:07,897 --> 00:25:11,510 going back and forth on how to handle something. 423 00:25:11,553 --> 00:25:14,817 You see their personalities and who in the Compliance 424 00:25:14,861 --> 00:25:17,951 Department, who is more serious about really cracking down and 425 00:25:17,994 --> 00:25:21,215 the tension between management and compliance. 426 00:25:21,258 --> 00:25:24,784 So at one point, the Geneva office basically says, 427 00:25:24,827 --> 00:25:29,092 you know, they-they found that you've got a Syrian tied to a, 428 00:25:29,136 --> 00:25:32,922 to Bashar Al-Assad whose now under sanction and everything at 429 00:25:32,966 --> 00:25:37,231 the time of these emails, and the Geneva office says, 430 00:25:37,274 --> 00:25:40,756 well, HSBC's still working with him so I don't see why 431 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,584 we shouldn't. 432 00:25:42,628 --> 00:25:45,674 You know, so you kinda see what their thinking is. 433 00:25:48,155 --> 00:25:49,959 You know, they're willing to work with bad money, 434 00:25:49,983 --> 00:25:54,335 they just have to be clean about it. 435 00:25:54,378 --> 00:25:57,730 The customer said, I need to do the following in terms of 436 00:25:57,773 --> 00:25:58,948 hiding money. 437 00:25:58,992 --> 00:26:00,602 Will you do it for me? 438 00:26:00,646 --> 00:26:03,257 And Mossack Fonseca, these are all on the records, 439 00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:06,782 would say sure, we'll give you a Panamanian corporation, 440 00:26:06,826 --> 00:26:10,090 a trust a bank account somewhere else, 441 00:26:10,133 --> 00:26:11,178 and not to worry. 442 00:26:11,221 --> 00:26:13,310 Nobody will follow the trail. 443 00:26:18,272 --> 00:26:21,841 So simplified, it would explain how the system works in a really 444 00:26:21,884 --> 00:26:24,191 understandable way. 445 00:26:24,234 --> 00:26:27,542 I worked on a case involving a drug trafficker in the 446 00:26:27,586 --> 00:26:29,196 Cayman Islands. 447 00:26:29,239 --> 00:26:33,069 His lawyer in Miami said, go see Joe Blow in the Cayman Islands 448 00:26:33,113 --> 00:26:34,593 and he'll set you up. 449 00:26:34,636 --> 00:26:36,638 We got everything a man could want. 450 00:26:36,682 --> 00:26:39,641 Joe Blow in the Cayman Islands sets up a corporation, 451 00:26:39,685 --> 00:26:42,601 the corporation opens a bank account. 452 00:26:42,644 --> 00:26:46,300 The guy who is the drug trafficker now puts money in the 453 00:26:46,343 --> 00:26:50,913 bank account and lets the lawyer in Cayman control that 454 00:26:50,957 --> 00:26:52,132 bank account. 455 00:26:52,175 --> 00:26:54,047 There comes a moment six months later... 456 00:26:54,090 --> 00:26:56,658 You took out the money. 457 00:26:56,702 --> 00:26:58,094 Yeah. 458 00:26:58,138 --> 00:27:00,140 He wants to move the money to hide the trail, 459 00:27:00,183 --> 00:27:02,272 and he calls the lawyer and says, 460 00:27:02,316 --> 00:27:05,058 well, we need another bank account in the name of another 461 00:27:05,101 --> 00:27:07,277 corporation, and I want to transfer the money from 462 00:27:07,321 --> 00:27:11,717 Corporation A to Corporation B, and let's do it so the amounts 463 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:12,935 don't match. 464 00:27:12,979 --> 00:27:15,634 And then, the moment comes when he says, 465 00:27:15,677 --> 00:27:18,680 I want to use the money, and he goes back for the lawyer in 466 00:27:18,724 --> 00:27:21,988 Cayman and he says, we're gonna have the bank that has the 467 00:27:22,031 --> 00:27:26,862 second transfer lend the money to the guy's brother who owns a, 468 00:27:26,906 --> 00:27:29,604 massage parlor in Houston. 469 00:27:29,648 --> 00:27:32,999 That way, it'll look like a loan, non-taxable. 470 00:27:33,042 --> 00:27:33,956 Where did you get it? 471 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,349 I borrowed it. 472 00:27:35,392 --> 00:27:37,525 The whole thing looks like it's perfectly clean 473 00:27:37,568 --> 00:27:38,918 and perfectly okay. 474 00:27:54,194 --> 00:27:55,891 Hey, how you doing? 475 00:27:55,935 --> 00:27:59,678 I was kind of skeptical because I wasn't a big fan of inviting 476 00:27:59,721 --> 00:28:01,331 so many colleagues. 477 00:28:01,375 --> 00:28:03,377 I thought, you know, maybe 50 or 100 really enough, 478 00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:10,123 and we knew around 50 or 100 from previous investigations, 479 00:28:10,166 --> 00:28:12,342 so we trusted them. 480 00:28:12,386 --> 00:28:18,348 Do they know that you got the data? 481 00:28:18,392 --> 00:28:20,152 Or that it's out there available for someone? 482 00:28:23,484 --> 00:28:28,924 I wondered if we could keep this whole project secret. 483 00:28:28,968 --> 00:28:32,580 There's one basic rule, and that might sound rude, 484 00:28:32,623 --> 00:28:33,581 but it's important. 485 00:28:33,624 --> 00:28:35,757 That's shut up and encrypt. 486 00:28:35,801 --> 00:28:39,761 We always told our colleagues that you cannot tell anyone. 487 00:28:39,805 --> 00:28:42,242 Not your wife, not your best friend, 488 00:28:42,285 --> 00:28:45,724 nobody, about this project, and you have to encrypt everything. 489 00:28:50,859 --> 00:28:52,707 You know, my primary interest at this-this stage of 490 00:28:52,731 --> 00:28:54,994 the investigation was to establish public interest. 491 00:28:55,037 --> 00:28:57,083 So we only were interested in public figures. 492 00:28:57,126 --> 00:28:59,868 You know, politicians, businesspeople, 493 00:28:59,912 --> 00:29:01,565 anyone with a public profile. 494 00:29:01,609 --> 00:29:06,657 And you know, the fastest way to find that out is to give a set 495 00:29:06,701 --> 00:29:08,853 of documents from Indonesia to an Indonesian journalist. 496 00:29:08,877 --> 00:29:11,532 Give a set of documents from Iceland to an 497 00:29:11,575 --> 00:29:13,142 Icelandic journalist. 498 00:29:13,186 --> 00:29:15,338 They would identify pretty quickly who was worth looking at 499 00:29:15,362 --> 00:29:17,122 on this list and who wasn't worth looking at. 500 00:29:26,852 --> 00:29:28,786 I was angry that I had, nobody had called me, 501 00:29:28,810 --> 00:29:30,812 and I wasn't, I wasn't involved. 502 00:29:30,856 --> 00:29:33,728 You know, I have never collaborated in a giant thing 503 00:29:33,772 --> 00:29:34,816 like that. 504 00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:37,123 I collaborate within my newsroom, 505 00:29:37,166 --> 00:29:39,778 sometimes with, like, one, you know, 506 00:29:39,821 --> 00:29:40,953 an outside group. 507 00:29:40,996 --> 00:29:43,303 Most news organizations are not global, 508 00:29:43,346 --> 00:29:45,324 and then I think this becomes much more important because it 509 00:29:45,348 --> 00:29:48,395 seems like more and more, the best stories are global. 510 00:29:48,438 --> 00:29:50,440 This was like a ringing affirmation that you can 511 00:29:50,484 --> 00:29:52,444 actually do it, uh, and you can do it at-at scale. 512 00:29:59,841 --> 00:30:03,236 Then the ICIJ said, for example, we need somebody in Panama. 513 00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:07,893 And I said, I don't trust anybody in Panama. 514 00:30:35,529 --> 00:30:36,636 When I first looked at the assignment 515 00:30:36,660 --> 00:30:39,533 that we were going to do, I flipped. 516 00:30:39,576 --> 00:30:41,456 And the first document I saw, it was an invoice. 517 00:30:41,491 --> 00:30:43,319 That's when I said, oh, my god. 518 00:30:43,363 --> 00:30:47,410 This is huge, because invoices are probably one of the most, 519 00:30:47,454 --> 00:30:51,327 private documents within a law firm, 520 00:30:51,371 --> 00:30:54,591 and then when I see the names of people I know in the database, 521 00:30:54,635 --> 00:30:59,422 you know, I was really, really, really scared because I knew 522 00:30:59,466 --> 00:31:03,035 what was coming behind that, and I knew the consequences that 523 00:31:03,078 --> 00:31:05,559 this was going to have. 524 00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:09,495 Rita Vasquez was also a lawyer in the offshore services 525 00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:13,262 industry for many years, so when we learned that, 526 00:31:13,306 --> 00:31:15,047 we were fascinated. 527 00:31:15,090 --> 00:31:19,138 We had the opportunity to work with an insider who understands 528 00:31:19,181 --> 00:31:22,924 this industry from within. 529 00:31:24,186 --> 00:31:26,121 Seeing my friends and people that I care for in that 530 00:31:26,145 --> 00:31:28,974 data really made me wanted to go deeper into the project. 531 00:31:31,541 --> 00:31:36,024 As a newspaper organization, it is not our duty to tell if a 532 00:31:36,068 --> 00:31:38,046 private person is doing something wrong with their own 533 00:31:38,070 --> 00:31:41,160 money, but it's our duty to tell if somebody who had access to 534 00:31:41,203 --> 00:31:44,032 public funds or if somebody who had, 535 00:31:44,076 --> 00:31:46,774 be part of a government or had some sort of a jurisdictional 536 00:31:46,817 --> 00:31:49,864 power was doing something wrong. 537 00:31:54,564 --> 00:31:58,307 The mandate of La Prensa was to return freedom of 538 00:31:58,351 --> 00:32:04,009 expression to the country as an infrastructure for democracy. 539 00:32:04,052 --> 00:32:05,793 In the midst of dictatorship. 540 00:32:20,634 --> 00:32:22,984 But somehow it worked, and in six months, 541 00:32:23,028 --> 00:32:26,205 we were the newspaper of record of Panama. 542 00:32:26,248 --> 00:32:29,164 When we sat at our first editorial meeting after 543 00:32:29,208 --> 00:32:31,297 everything was set up, we said, well, 544 00:32:31,340 --> 00:32:32,907 how are we gonna handle this? 545 00:32:32,951 --> 00:32:37,346 Do we go softly increasing our pressure or do we hit 'em 546 00:32:37,390 --> 00:32:39,958 straight in the face from day one? 547 00:32:40,001 --> 00:32:41,046 We decided the second. 548 00:32:49,358 --> 00:32:51,230 When we heard Mossack Fonseca, 549 00:32:51,273 --> 00:32:54,624 we knew that we were uniquely positioned within the project 550 00:32:54,668 --> 00:32:57,149 because I played for the Mossack Fonseca softball team in 551 00:32:57,192 --> 00:32:58,846 the BVI. 552 00:32:58,889 --> 00:33:03,329 Four of our closest friends worked for Mossack Fonseca. 553 00:33:03,372 --> 00:33:06,332 And so we had a perspective that out of the journalists, 554 00:33:06,375 --> 00:33:09,900 there were two people that knew the inner workings of that 555 00:33:09,944 --> 00:33:11,772 company better than anybody. 556 00:33:13,556 --> 00:33:16,820 My journalism career was never going to lead to any kind 557 00:33:16,864 --> 00:33:18,170 of greatness. 558 00:33:18,213 --> 00:33:20,041 I was never gonna work for the New York Times. 559 00:33:20,085 --> 00:33:22,019 You know, I was the English editor of La Prensa in Panama. 560 00:33:22,043 --> 00:33:25,046 That's not the sort of things that make a great bio, 561 00:33:25,090 --> 00:33:28,136 and I always compared it to a career minor league pitcher that 562 00:33:28,180 --> 00:33:32,836 suddenly you get to start game seven of the World Series. 563 00:33:33,533 --> 00:33:34,490 When you find out it's world leaders, 564 00:33:34,534 --> 00:33:35,970 it's drug traffickers. 565 00:33:36,014 --> 00:33:39,234 la Reina Del Sur, who is one of the most famous female 566 00:33:39,278 --> 00:33:42,455 narco-terrorists in history; Carlos Quintero, 567 00:33:42,498 --> 00:33:46,937 who is described as making Pablo Escobar look like a baby. 568 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,116 All of these names that come flooding at you, 569 00:33:51,159 --> 00:33:55,859 and you, your first thought is, how did they get away with this? 570 00:34:34,376 --> 00:34:36,465 At least that's my assumption. 571 00:34:36,509 --> 00:34:42,863 I mean, we've been working on offshore since, for 2012. 572 00:34:44,299 --> 00:34:46,780 My private explanation, more or less, 573 00:34:46,823 --> 00:34:51,567 is that I know that the source had contact with other outlets, 574 00:34:51,611 --> 00:34:56,094 even before me, and they had not reacted in the way that the 575 00:34:56,137 --> 00:34:58,661 leaker wished they had. 576 00:34:59,314 --> 00:35:01,423 Some outlets may have passed just because they tend 577 00:35:01,447 --> 00:35:03,536 not to do giant collaborations. 578 00:35:03,579 --> 00:35:05,973 You're devoting some of your best people to something that 579 00:35:06,016 --> 00:35:07,148 might take a year. 580 00:35:07,192 --> 00:35:08,758 That, resources are scarce. 581 00:35:08,802 --> 00:35:12,240 Investigative talent on your payroll is-is scarce, 582 00:35:12,284 --> 00:35:15,025 it's expensive, and you're, you're taking a leap into 583 00:35:15,069 --> 00:35:17,332 something that, from the beginning, 584 00:35:17,376 --> 00:35:19,204 you know is not gonna be an exclusive. 585 00:35:22,337 --> 00:35:23,643 The media has failed. 586 00:35:23,686 --> 00:35:26,733 In addition to SuĆ¼ddeutsche Zeitung and ICIJ, 587 00:35:26,776 --> 00:35:29,649 and despite explicit claims to the contrary, 588 00:35:29,692 --> 00:35:33,131 several major media outlets did have editors review documents 589 00:35:33,174 --> 00:35:34,610 for the Panama Papers. 590 00:35:34,654 --> 00:35:37,047 They chose not to cover them. 591 00:35:39,876 --> 00:35:44,272 There's this probably frustrated person or those 592 00:35:44,316 --> 00:35:50,496 persons, we don't know, trying to reach someone that is 593 00:35:50,539 --> 00:35:52,150 actually listening. 594 00:35:52,193 --> 00:35:54,302 I mean, there was a flavor of John Doe's personality. 595 00:35:54,326 --> 00:35:56,676 John Doe was worried about exposure. 596 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,567 He was also kind of worried about his own sort of personal 597 00:35:58,591 --> 00:36:00,201 safety, so we don't know who it is. 598 00:36:00,245 --> 00:36:01,613 It could be a he, it could be a she. 599 00:36:01,637 --> 00:36:02,812 I don't think it's a they. 600 00:36:02,856 --> 00:36:05,598 I don't think anyone benefits, 601 00:36:05,641 --> 00:36:07,532 you know, it's kind of death by a thousand cuts if you give a 602 00:36:07,556 --> 00:36:09,491 little information here, a little information there, 603 00:36:09,515 --> 00:36:11,517 you end up compromising your source, 604 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,649 and so I've kind of pushed back internally, 605 00:36:13,693 --> 00:36:17,087 I think, on that, so that people are more cautious about 606 00:36:17,131 --> 00:36:18,741 what they say about the source. 607 00:36:18,785 --> 00:36:21,067 There are lots of good reasons for sources to be afraid 608 00:36:21,091 --> 00:36:22,223 of talking to the press. 609 00:36:22,267 --> 00:36:24,704 It can be an enormous risk. 610 00:36:24,747 --> 00:36:26,706 You know, they can get fired, 611 00:36:26,749 --> 00:36:28,577 they can get jailed in some places, 612 00:36:28,621 --> 00:36:30,231 they can get killed. 613 00:36:30,275 --> 00:36:31,861 And so, but one of those reasons is they don't trust the 614 00:36:31,885 --> 00:36:33,930 operational security of the journalist, 615 00:36:33,974 --> 00:36:36,890 and sometimes they're right to be very worried about that, 616 00:36:36,933 --> 00:36:38,911 and they should, you know, if you're a source out there, 617 00:36:38,935 --> 00:36:41,242 you should do your due diligence and pick your 618 00:36:41,286 --> 00:36:42,461 journalist carefully. 619 00:36:42,504 --> 00:36:45,638 I've watched as one after another, 620 00:36:45,681 --> 00:36:49,207 whistleblowers and activists in the United States and Europe 621 00:36:49,250 --> 00:36:52,253 have had their lives destroyed, and the circumstances they find 622 00:36:52,297 --> 00:36:55,256 themselves in after shining a light on obvious wrongdoing. 623 00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:58,477 Snowden, who was holed up in Hong Kong, 624 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,131 wanted in the U.S., is now in Russia. 625 00:37:01,175 --> 00:37:03,264 Edward Snowden is stranded in Moscow, 626 00:37:03,308 --> 00:37:06,224 exiled due to the Obama Administration's decision to 627 00:37:06,267 --> 00:37:08,791 prosecute him under the Espionage Act. 628 00:37:08,835 --> 00:37:11,794 Bradley Birkenfeld was awarded millions for his information 629 00:37:11,838 --> 00:37:15,363 concerning Swiss bank UBS, and was still given a prison 630 00:37:15,407 --> 00:37:17,496 sentence by the Justice Department. 631 00:37:17,539 --> 00:37:20,586 Legitimate whistleblowers who expose unquestionable 632 00:37:20,629 --> 00:37:23,458 wrongdoing, whether insiders or outsiders, 633 00:37:23,502 --> 00:37:25,678 deserve immunity from government retribution. 634 00:37:35,296 --> 00:37:38,343 Because of its nature, of how global it was, 635 00:37:38,386 --> 00:37:42,172 we all realized that we need to get together in person, 636 00:37:42,216 --> 00:37:44,653 so Munich was the perfect place, of course, 637 00:37:44,697 --> 00:37:48,962 because we needed to go to the home of SuĆ¼ddeutsche Zeitung. 638 00:37:50,050 --> 00:37:51,288 That, itself, had to stay secret, 639 00:37:51,312 --> 00:37:54,228 so you couldn't say, "I'm in Munich for X." 640 00:37:54,272 --> 00:37:56,143 People will naturally ask, well, you know, 641 00:37:56,186 --> 00:37:57,797 what, what are you doing there? 642 00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,296 Oh, work meeting or, uh, you had to come up with something that 643 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,757 didn't sound anything like what you were doing there. 644 00:38:09,765 --> 00:38:15,554 The meeting was kind of the decisive point. 645 00:38:15,597 --> 00:38:19,601 it was more or less our job to make people enthusiastic about 646 00:38:19,645 --> 00:38:21,255 it and to get them on board. 647 00:38:24,867 --> 00:38:26,129 I was so nervous. 648 00:38:26,173 --> 00:38:27,759 I hadn't slept for three nights because it was, 649 00:38:27,783 --> 00:38:30,395 I mean, I was really, really nervous because I thought if I 650 00:38:30,438 --> 00:38:34,224 mess this up, you know, then this is the big, 651 00:38:34,268 --> 00:38:35,791 the big chance. 652 00:38:35,835 --> 00:38:37,682 The biggest collaboration of investigative journalists... 653 00:38:37,706 --> 00:38:41,667 Sitting in front of more than a hundred journalists showed me 654 00:38:41,710 --> 00:38:45,148 the first time how big this project already was at 655 00:38:45,192 --> 00:38:47,847 that moment. 656 00:38:48,717 --> 00:38:49,999 It was like the United Nations of journalism, 657 00:38:50,023 --> 00:38:52,373 and I've never experienced anything like it. 658 00:38:52,417 --> 00:38:54,482 We were working on a story, and we were all working on 659 00:38:54,506 --> 00:38:55,550 it together. 660 00:38:55,594 --> 00:38:57,509 Sorry, well, I'm Emilia. 661 00:38:57,552 --> 00:38:58,466 I'm from Venezuela. 662 00:38:58,510 --> 00:39:00,120 I think... 663 00:39:00,163 --> 00:39:03,297 We are not, uh, forcing you to do this story. 664 00:39:03,341 --> 00:39:05,647 We are not paying you to do this story. 665 00:39:05,691 --> 00:39:08,911 This is the story, and you need to invest in it, 666 00:39:08,955 --> 00:39:12,045 and you are only going to get out of it as much as you put 667 00:39:12,088 --> 00:39:14,308 into it. 668 00:39:14,352 --> 00:39:16,615 Everybody was, I'm all in. 669 00:39:16,658 --> 00:39:18,965 I want to know more. 670 00:39:26,755 --> 00:39:30,672 It's a time right now in newsrooms of 671 00:39:30,716 --> 00:39:32,065 great uncertainty. 672 00:39:32,108 --> 00:39:34,459 You know, what will be the fate of newspapers, 673 00:39:34,502 --> 00:39:39,507 which used to be the watchdogs of the media. 674 00:39:42,031 --> 00:39:43,642 In a time when everyone is broke, 675 00:39:43,685 --> 00:39:46,384 when no one's clicking the ads, where Facebook is taking all our 676 00:39:46,427 --> 00:39:49,256 money, where, where newsrooms are-are just kind of 677 00:39:49,299 --> 00:39:52,738 empty-pocketed... 678 00:39:52,781 --> 00:39:55,001 We really had to convince these media 679 00:39:55,044 --> 00:39:57,438 organizations and these journalists to work together, 680 00:39:57,482 --> 00:40:00,006 and we often got responses like, why do we need you? 681 00:40:00,049 --> 00:40:01,616 Or why do we need one another? 682 00:40:01,660 --> 00:40:03,313 We can do it on our own. 683 00:40:03,357 --> 00:40:08,449 And perhaps 10, 15 years ago, it was pre-media crisis and a lot 684 00:40:08,493 --> 00:40:11,887 of newspapers were feeling really strong still, 685 00:40:11,931 --> 00:40:14,977 and they still had foreign correspondents and thought that 686 00:40:15,021 --> 00:40:18,851 they could do it on their own, but as the crisis in the media 687 00:40:18,894 --> 00:40:22,420 took place, and stories became more complex, 688 00:40:22,463 --> 00:40:27,686 as technology evolved, it became obvious that we needed to join 689 00:40:27,729 --> 00:40:31,690 forces, and they learned through the process how much more 690 00:40:31,733 --> 00:40:36,695 impactful and powerful their reporting can become when we 691 00:40:36,738 --> 00:40:40,220 work as a collective. 692 00:40:41,787 --> 00:40:44,833 We immediately realized the impact of having more people 693 00:40:44,877 --> 00:40:49,708 from different countries inside the investigation because we had 694 00:40:49,751 --> 00:40:52,058 more, more, more findings. 695 00:40:52,101 --> 00:40:54,452 Generally, I would say we found the anonymous 696 00:40:54,495 --> 00:40:56,236 international rich. 697 00:40:56,279 --> 00:40:59,805 We, we found Spanish royals, we found a German chicken farmer, 698 00:40:59,848 --> 00:41:02,851 we found a French dentist, we found people who would, 699 00:41:02,895 --> 00:41:04,810 use fake names when dealing with their lawyers, 700 00:41:04,853 --> 00:41:06,812 so instead of saying, you know, you know, 701 00:41:06,855 --> 00:41:09,510 hello, here is Ivan, you know, they would say, 702 00:41:09,554 --> 00:41:10,859 "Hi, it's Harry Potter." 703 00:41:10,903 --> 00:41:12,861 And, and there was correspondents, 704 00:41:12,905 --> 00:41:16,343 you know, dear Harry, your $25,000 705 00:41:16,386 --> 00:41:17,997 has arrived in the Bahamas. 706 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,757 I mean, it was just like the wo- most weird fishing expedition. 707 00:41:19,781 --> 00:41:21,870 I mean, there were fish you would expect, 708 00:41:21,914 --> 00:41:23,805 and there was some very ugly, small fish you didn't expect. 709 00:41:23,829 --> 00:41:25,657 Whenever I went into the data, 710 00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:26,919 I found something new. 711 00:41:26,962 --> 00:41:29,574 I found scandals in Africa, in Latin America. 712 00:41:33,186 --> 00:41:34,642 Messi now, everyone on the edge of their 713 00:41:34,666 --> 00:41:36,929 seats, Messi going for goal! 714 00:41:36,972 --> 00:41:37,973 Oh! 715 00:41:39,801 --> 00:41:41,170 He's a man on a mission! 716 00:41:41,194 --> 00:41:43,501 Lionel Messi, his family fortune, 717 00:41:43,544 --> 00:41:47,156 is in the Panama Papers, and is now in the courts. 718 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,637 No one in their right mind in Latin America thought that FIFA 719 00:41:49,681 --> 00:41:51,160 wasn't corrupt. 720 00:41:53,162 --> 00:41:55,053 It was not a surprise to find the FIFA officials. 721 00:41:55,077 --> 00:41:58,777 That was kind of one of, people thought was gonna be in there. 722 00:41:58,820 --> 00:42:01,040 Kids are under contract, 13 or 14, 723 00:42:01,083 --> 00:42:04,565 whether or not they ever become a pro has very little to do with 724 00:42:04,609 --> 00:42:07,437 their talent level, and more to do with which lawyer is screwing 725 00:42:07,481 --> 00:42:09,091 what agent in a business deal. 726 00:42:09,135 --> 00:42:12,094 In Lionel Messi, there's no evidence that he himself had any 727 00:42:12,138 --> 00:42:15,054 hand in any of this, but the people who handle him and the 728 00:42:15,097 --> 00:42:16,838 whole contracts and everything, they did. 729 00:42:19,754 --> 00:42:22,975 And we will restore the image of FIFA and the respect of 730 00:42:23,018 --> 00:42:26,021 FIFA, and everyone in the world will applaud us and will applaud 731 00:42:26,065 --> 00:42:30,852 all of you for what we'll do in FIFA in the future. 732 00:42:38,033 --> 00:42:40,862 We found Sergey Roldugin, Putin's best friend, 733 00:42:40,906 --> 00:42:43,952 ostensibly, second-hand car, not very wealthy, 734 00:42:43,996 --> 00:42:46,215 but we found almost a billion dollars. 735 00:42:46,259 --> 00:42:49,305 It came from Bank Rossiya, which is a kind of crony bank from the 736 00:42:49,349 --> 00:42:53,832 regime in Saint Petersburg, right through to secret offshore 737 00:42:53,875 --> 00:42:56,835 companies, and then a lot of that cash was recycled back into 738 00:42:56,878 --> 00:43:00,621 Russia, including, um, into the wedding resort where Putin's 739 00:43:00,665 --> 00:43:03,015 daughter, Caterina, got married in 2013. 740 00:43:03,058 --> 00:43:05,844 And so from Russia, what we saw was, 741 00:43:05,887 --> 00:43:08,039 in a way, what you might call a kind of neo-feudal system. 742 00:43:08,063 --> 00:43:11,676 You could see how not just Putin's KGB chums were 743 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,070 billionaires, but how the next generation were accumulating 744 00:43:15,114 --> 00:43:18,770 assets, marrying each other, dodging American sanctions and 745 00:43:18,813 --> 00:43:20,075 so on. 746 00:43:20,119 --> 00:43:21,947 I mean, if you're Vladimir Putin, 747 00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:23,862 you don't go to Mossack Fonseca and say, 748 00:43:23,905 --> 00:43:25,298 "I want a company in my name." 749 00:43:25,341 --> 00:43:27,692 But you'd probably send someone that you trust. 750 00:43:27,735 --> 00:43:30,085 And this is exactly how this world works. 751 00:43:30,129 --> 00:43:36,744 When you can set up corporations in such a complex 752 00:43:36,788 --> 00:43:39,660 way and changing ownership. 753 00:43:39,704 --> 00:43:42,054 One woman I looked into was Leticia Montoya, 754 00:43:42,097 --> 00:43:46,275 a director in 10,969 corporations. 755 00:43:50,149 --> 00:43:52,717 Think about that. 756 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,850 I mean, she doesn't, has no idea whatsoever what those 757 00:43:55,894 --> 00:43:56,894 corporations do. 758 00:44:07,601 --> 00:44:09,231 It's just a job, and she's a secretary. 759 00:44:09,255 --> 00:44:12,954 She, I mean, those who went to her house could have seen that 760 00:44:12,998 --> 00:44:16,697 she has no money, she lives in a fisherman community, 761 00:44:16,741 --> 00:44:18,133 not in the city. 762 00:44:18,177 --> 00:44:21,136 I mean, it's not like she made any money on this. 763 00:44:24,226 --> 00:44:28,230 This has gone on country after country after country. 764 00:44:28,274 --> 00:44:32,670 The amounts that are being pulled out are really at the 765 00:44:32,713 --> 00:44:37,762 expense of average people who simply can't get services from 766 00:44:37,805 --> 00:44:40,721 their government because the money's been flat stolen. 767 00:44:45,770 --> 00:44:49,338 I spoke at a conference to the Inter-American Bar 768 00:44:49,382 --> 00:44:52,733 Association in Cochabamba, Bolivia, 769 00:44:52,777 --> 00:44:58,086 and I tried to say, lawyers job is to keep people honest, 770 00:44:58,130 --> 00:45:02,177 and you shouldn't be helping them evade the law or break 771 00:45:02,221 --> 00:45:03,613 the law. 772 00:45:03,657 --> 00:45:06,573 My audience began to laugh at me. 773 00:45:06,616 --> 00:45:08,749 I blew up. 774 00:45:08,793 --> 00:45:11,665 Why do you think you don't have clean water? 775 00:45:11,709 --> 00:45:13,841 Why do you think people are so poor? 776 00:45:13,885 --> 00:45:18,150 It's because you, as a group of professionals, 777 00:45:18,193 --> 00:45:22,763 are teaching people how not to be participants in your society. 778 00:45:24,722 --> 00:45:27,289 The fundamental question I ask is, 779 00:45:27,333 --> 00:45:29,552 well, who makes money off this? 780 00:45:29,596 --> 00:45:31,772 Who makes money off this industry? 781 00:45:31,816 --> 00:45:34,775 And obviously, Mossack Fonseca made a lot of money, 782 00:45:34,819 --> 00:45:37,256 and obviously their clients who avoid taxes, 783 00:45:37,299 --> 00:45:40,650 they make a lot of money, but banks also make a lot of money, 784 00:45:40,694 --> 00:45:43,175 financial institutions, Wall Street. 785 00:45:43,218 --> 00:45:46,831 You can't have a major business if you don't have banks 786 00:45:46,874 --> 00:45:48,833 complicit with your business. 787 00:45:48,876 --> 00:45:52,793 The banks are certainly a key cog in this whole mechanism 788 00:45:52,837 --> 00:45:56,014 set up to create distance between the real owners of the 789 00:45:56,057 --> 00:45:58,799 money and-and-and the corporations that nominally, 790 00:45:58,843 --> 00:46:02,890 have control over it, but banks donate a lot to 791 00:46:02,934 --> 00:46:07,155 politicians, and uh, you know, 792 00:46:07,199 --> 00:46:08,766 there you go. 793 00:46:08,809 --> 00:46:12,465 The banks and the accounting firms and the law 794 00:46:12,508 --> 00:46:16,208 firms, they are basically spending all of their resources 795 00:46:16,251 --> 00:46:21,779 in trying to damage national treasuries in creating an 796 00:46:21,822 --> 00:46:26,784 illusion of-of an economic system that works only for the 797 00:46:26,827 --> 00:46:32,311 1%, and they are working to deepen that gap between the 1% 798 00:46:32,354 --> 00:46:34,748 and the rest of the world. 799 00:46:54,333 --> 00:46:55,876 We found David Cameron's dad in the data with 800 00:46:55,900 --> 00:46:58,032 his offshore fund. 801 00:46:59,817 --> 00:47:00,687 I'm very relaxed about, 802 00:47:00,730 --> 00:47:01,775 publishing these things. 803 00:47:01,819 --> 00:47:05,083 There's no secrets about my status. 804 00:47:05,126 --> 00:47:08,782 I am paid handsomely as your Prime Minister, 805 00:47:08,826 --> 00:47:10,871 and that is my main source of income, 806 00:47:10,915 --> 00:47:14,005 and I have a house I used to live in before I moved into 807 00:47:14,048 --> 00:47:16,616 Downing Street, and I rent that out and I get the income 808 00:47:16,659 --> 00:47:17,747 from that. 809 00:47:17,791 --> 00:47:18,899 I don't have other sources of income, 810 00:47:18,923 --> 00:47:20,446 so there will be no surprises, 811 00:47:20,489 --> 00:47:22,883 in terms of my tax affairs, but I'm very relaxed, 812 00:47:22,927 --> 00:47:23,623 as I've always said. 813 00:47:23,666 --> 00:47:25,190 Nothing's changed. 814 00:47:26,104 --> 00:47:26,713 It wasn't even a surprise that his dad had had 815 00:47:26,756 --> 00:47:28,062 a fund. 816 00:47:28,106 --> 00:47:29,910 It's just that he wouldn't say he had money in it. 817 00:47:29,934 --> 00:47:32,414 In order to not have the fund taxed in the UK, 818 00:47:32,458 --> 00:47:34,436 you had to have majority of foreign directors on the company 819 00:47:34,460 --> 00:47:36,462 board, so the third was Swiss, a third were, 820 00:47:36,505 --> 00:47:38,614 were in the Bahamas, and-and everything was run out of the 821 00:47:38,638 --> 00:47:41,119 Bahamas, so they had this army of people just assign things 822 00:47:41,162 --> 00:47:43,251 there, so they were pretending to, 823 00:47:43,295 --> 00:47:46,602 devise the investment strategy and trade gold and 824 00:47:46,646 --> 00:47:49,146 bonds and things like that, but all the instructions were coming 825 00:47:49,170 --> 00:47:51,085 by telephone from London. 826 00:47:55,002 --> 00:47:56,675 One of the thing is we found is not only did Mossack 827 00:47:56,699 --> 00:47:59,964 Fonseca have a number of Chinese companies that it registered in 828 00:48:00,007 --> 00:48:02,357 Nevada as shell companies, some of those, 829 00:48:02,401 --> 00:48:04,403 perhaps, to do business in the United States, 830 00:48:04,446 --> 00:48:08,886 but more likely than not, to hide assets somewhere else. 831 00:48:09,538 --> 00:48:12,063 Brazil was one of the, the hottest things, 832 00:48:12,106 --> 00:48:14,108 and having been a correspondent there myself, 833 00:48:14,152 --> 00:48:16,217 I was very interested in working with the Brazilian team. 834 00:48:16,241 --> 00:48:19,940 We found payoffs to politicians. 835 00:48:19,984 --> 00:48:23,161 More than $700 million in bribes had been paid. 836 00:48:23,204 --> 00:48:26,294 Two-thirds of the country's legislature had been 837 00:48:26,338 --> 00:48:27,948 tied to off-shore companies. 838 00:48:27,992 --> 00:48:31,517 Many of the politicians were using shell companies through 839 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,781 Mossack Fonseca in Nevada to hide assets they owned back in, 840 00:48:34,824 --> 00:48:36,914 in Brazil. 841 00:48:37,392 --> 00:48:39,177 Nobody pays a bribe and says, hey, 842 00:48:39,220 --> 00:48:40,395 here's a bribe. 843 00:48:40,439 --> 00:48:43,137 They do it through consulting fees, 844 00:48:43,181 --> 00:48:45,183 they do it through structured investments, 845 00:48:45,226 --> 00:48:46,334 and they do it through shell companies that pay other 846 00:48:46,358 --> 00:48:47,358 shell companies. 847 00:48:51,015 --> 00:48:54,844 The papers were very clear that this problem is not 848 00:48:54,888 --> 00:48:59,240 limited to small countries in Africa. 849 00:48:59,284 --> 00:49:02,940 The problem is huge here in the United States. 850 00:49:02,983 --> 00:49:07,901 The tax evasion problem is huge here in the United States. 851 00:49:08,728 --> 00:49:10,097 There were a lot of Americans in Panama Papers, 852 00:49:10,121 --> 00:49:12,384 so here's this perception that there weren't. 853 00:49:12,427 --> 00:49:15,953 I think what was missing was a Putin-type big name, 854 00:49:15,996 --> 00:49:19,434 but the very kind of people you'd expect to be in the Panama 855 00:49:19,478 --> 00:49:21,045 Papers were in there. 856 00:49:21,088 --> 00:49:23,917 all kinds of SEC fraud, pump and dump, 857 00:49:23,961 --> 00:49:26,224 penny stocks, and a lot of hedge funds. 858 00:49:26,267 --> 00:49:30,097 Those kinda guys who need that anonymity to make that work. 859 00:49:30,141 --> 00:49:33,013 Those guys are in here in some significant numbers, 860 00:49:33,057 --> 00:49:35,015 and unfortunately, that's gotten easier, 861 00:49:35,059 --> 00:49:37,409 not harder in the aftermath of Trump's election. 862 00:49:37,452 --> 00:49:44,024 I am officially running for President of the United 863 00:49:44,068 --> 00:49:49,987 States, and we are going to make our country great again. 864 00:49:51,597 --> 00:49:54,730 Having Donald Trump as the President of the United 865 00:49:54,774 --> 00:50:00,954 States let me feel a little bit strange knowing that he also had 866 00:50:00,998 --> 00:50:03,087 some offshore deals in his past. 867 00:50:03,130 --> 00:50:06,351 He didn't pay any federal income tax, so-- 868 00:50:06,394 --> 00:50:08,048 That makes me smart. 869 00:50:08,092 --> 00:50:09,634 --if he's paid zero, that's zero for troops-- 870 00:50:09,658 --> 00:50:10,853 Trump is obviously one we were focused on from 871 00:50:10,877 --> 00:50:12,487 the very beginning. 872 00:50:12,531 --> 00:50:15,577 He appeared about 3,450 times that we know of. 873 00:50:15,621 --> 00:50:17,884 That's not to say his partners. 874 00:50:17,927 --> 00:50:19,364 That's just him by name. 875 00:50:20,452 --> 00:50:22,584 The big find was a lot of documents around the 876 00:50:22,628 --> 00:50:25,109 Panama Hotel project. 877 00:50:25,152 --> 00:50:27,348 Trump Ocean Club soars over the Pacific and 878 00:50:27,372 --> 00:50:29,156 Panama City. 879 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,290 It's also where criminals, everywhere from Russian 880 00:50:32,333 --> 00:50:35,989 gangsters to money launderers for Latin American drug cartels 881 00:50:36,033 --> 00:50:38,687 were able to hide their cash. 882 00:50:38,731 --> 00:50:41,386 There we found contract information between him and the 883 00:50:41,429 --> 00:50:43,083 developer, Newland. 884 00:50:43,127 --> 00:50:45,279 One of the things I think that was very helpful in the Panama 885 00:50:45,303 --> 00:50:48,175 Papers is it actually showed Trump's business model. 886 00:50:48,219 --> 00:50:50,090 It was a contract that showed how he got paid, 887 00:50:50,134 --> 00:50:51,570 how his name was leased. 888 00:50:51,613 --> 00:50:54,094 This really wasn't known, and the documents, 889 00:50:54,138 --> 00:50:56,183 here we had physical proof of how, 890 00:50:56,227 --> 00:50:58,229 you know, how he arranges things. 891 00:50:58,272 --> 00:51:00,318 As a former money launderer, 892 00:51:00,361 --> 00:51:04,409 the Trump Ocean Club, how would you rate it in its quality. 893 00:51:04,452 --> 00:51:05,410 For money laundering? 894 00:51:05,453 --> 00:51:09,283 Oh, I'd say triple A. 895 00:51:18,814 --> 00:51:21,165 You get control of the country, 896 00:51:21,208 --> 00:51:25,299 you move your family into all of the important jobs in the 897 00:51:25,343 --> 00:51:29,260 country, and then you use that as an opportunity to 898 00:51:29,303 --> 00:51:30,913 enrich yourself. 899 00:51:30,957 --> 00:51:32,456 The man they credit with Donald Trump's 900 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,280 victory, the President Elect's own son-in-law, 901 00:51:34,308 --> 00:51:35,440 Jared Kushner. 902 00:51:35,483 --> 00:51:38,834 What's now going on is exactly that, 903 00:51:38,878 --> 00:51:42,534 and what I think is also going on is that our president has 904 00:51:42,577 --> 00:51:47,191 cozied up to any number of these kleptocrats because he wants 905 00:51:47,234 --> 00:51:50,498 Americans to think it's the new normal. 906 00:51:53,458 --> 00:51:55,218 The central figure in the investigations 907 00:51:55,242 --> 00:51:57,549 into Donald Trump's inner circle, 908 00:51:57,592 --> 00:51:58,506 and possible ties to Russia. 909 00:51:58,550 --> 00:52:00,247 It was Manafort... 910 00:52:00,291 --> 00:52:00,987 Paul Manafort... 911 00:52:01,030 --> 00:52:02,597 Paul Manafort... 912 00:52:02,641 --> 00:52:04,227 Long before he was president Trump's campaign 913 00:52:04,251 --> 00:52:07,254 chairman, Paul Manafort was paid millions by a Russian 914 00:52:07,298 --> 00:52:10,301 billionaire with close ties to Vladimir Putin. 915 00:52:10,344 --> 00:52:14,131 That is the closest we've been able to get to Manafort. 916 00:52:14,174 --> 00:52:18,135 Manafort seems to have been paid through companies in Belize. 917 00:52:18,178 --> 00:52:22,443 I've spent a lot of time looking at these shell companies. 918 00:52:23,052 --> 00:52:26,273 Donald Trump's friends, people of his cabinet, 919 00:52:26,317 --> 00:52:31,060 advisors, have been active in the offshore business. 920 00:52:31,844 --> 00:52:34,194 Mister Mnuchin, you ran a hedge fund for a few years 921 00:52:34,238 --> 00:52:40,418 starting in 2004, and I've been trying to get my arms around the 922 00:52:40,461 --> 00:52:43,551 Mnuchin web of bank accounts and shell companies. 923 00:52:43,595 --> 00:52:45,858 They were in Cayman Islands and Anguilla. 924 00:52:45,901 --> 00:52:48,643 How many employees did you have in Anguilla? 925 00:52:49,253 --> 00:52:50,447 Treasury Secretary Nominee 926 00:52:50,471 --> 00:52:54,301 we didn't have any employees in Anguilla. 927 00:52:54,345 --> 00:52:55,713 How many customers did you have there? 928 00:52:55,737 --> 00:52:56,477 We didn't have any customers that resided 929 00:52:56,521 --> 00:52:57,478 in Anguilla. 930 00:52:57,522 --> 00:52:59,654 Did you have an office there? 931 00:52:59,698 --> 00:53:02,657 We did not have a office ourselves there. 932 00:53:02,701 --> 00:53:05,312 So you just had a post office box? 933 00:53:05,356 --> 00:53:07,706 Senator, let me explain to you, okay? 934 00:53:07,749 --> 00:53:08,813 It's just a yes or no answer. 935 00:53:08,837 --> 00:53:10,099 I'm already over my time. 936 00:53:10,143 --> 00:53:11,013 Yes or no? 937 00:53:11,057 --> 00:53:12,624 Did you just have a post office? 938 00:53:12,667 --> 00:53:14,254 Well, hopefully the other senators will defer some 939 00:53:14,278 --> 00:53:16,367 time so I can, I can answer this for you, 940 00:53:16,410 --> 00:53:18,412 because I think it's an important issue, 941 00:53:18,456 --> 00:53:19,326 but no, we had-- 942 00:53:19,370 --> 00:53:21,241 Mister Chairman, this is... 943 00:53:21,285 --> 00:53:24,244 I think he should go ahead and answer it right now. 944 00:53:24,288 --> 00:53:24,940 He should get a chance to answer the question. 945 00:53:24,984 --> 00:53:26,507 Yeah. 946 00:53:26,551 --> 00:53:28,181 I'm very troubled about this question of how you're 947 00:53:28,205 --> 00:53:32,774 gonna unrig the system if you've got a record of taking advantage 948 00:53:32,818 --> 00:53:36,082 of tax shelters that, in effect, have zero percent tax rate. 949 00:53:36,125 --> 00:53:37,431 Thank you, Mister Chairman. 950 00:53:37,475 --> 00:53:42,175 The taxes you pay are compulsory. 951 00:53:42,741 --> 00:53:44,719 They come out of your paycheck, you can see it once or twice 952 00:53:44,743 --> 00:53:47,267 a month. 953 00:53:47,311 --> 00:53:50,836 There're no Cayman Island deals for you, 954 00:53:50,879 --> 00:53:54,492 not, none of those kinda sweetheart overseas deals for 955 00:53:54,535 --> 00:53:59,018 you the way Steve Mnuchin, the Treasury Secretary, got. 956 00:53:59,061 --> 00:54:03,152 Then there's another set of tax rules for the fortunate and the 957 00:54:03,196 --> 00:54:05,677 well-connected. 958 00:54:05,720 --> 00:54:08,288 They can pretty much decide under the tax law what they're 959 00:54:08,332 --> 00:54:10,072 going to pay, when they're going to pay it, 960 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,122 and in some instances, almost nothing. 961 00:54:19,865 --> 00:54:22,737 The problem today is really that the U.S. 962 00:54:22,781 --> 00:54:26,088 is the best place to put your assets. 963 00:54:28,656 --> 00:54:30,223 Over the last couple of decades, 964 00:54:30,267 --> 00:54:32,419 we've seen increasingly that shell companies registered in 965 00:54:32,443 --> 00:54:36,316 the U.S. are used to commit all sorts of crimes 966 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:37,554 from human trafficking to drug trafficking 967 00:54:37,578 --> 00:54:38,275 to arms dealing. 968 00:54:38,318 --> 00:54:40,233 The list goes on and on. 969 00:54:43,410 --> 00:54:46,021 Looking to Delaware, looking to Nevada, 970 00:54:46,065 --> 00:54:48,086 that's a, for example, a jurisdiction Mossack Fonseca was 971 00:54:48,110 --> 00:54:49,634 very active. 972 00:54:49,677 --> 00:54:51,699 We found a lot of Brazilians hiding property owned 973 00:54:51,723 --> 00:54:53,812 in Brazil through Nevada offshore, 974 00:54:53,855 --> 00:54:58,338 so Nevada was being used by Brazilians in a way that Cayman 975 00:54:58,382 --> 00:54:59,446 Islands, Bahamas might be used by an American trying to hide 976 00:54:59,470 --> 00:55:01,385 ownership of an asset. 977 00:55:05,824 --> 00:55:08,522 Well, Nevada has always had this approach to raising 978 00:55:08,566 --> 00:55:10,655 revenue that we wanna attack somebody else, 979 00:55:10,698 --> 00:55:12,309 not the people who live here. 980 00:55:12,352 --> 00:55:16,530 Though, back in the '90s, they decided to become the Delaware 981 00:55:16,574 --> 00:55:19,925 of the west and tried to follow that example and make it very 982 00:55:19,968 --> 00:55:24,712 easy for shell companies, LLCs, to be set up there without 983 00:55:24,756 --> 00:55:28,368 having any kind of information available about who owned them 984 00:55:28,412 --> 00:55:30,631 or who benefited from them. 985 00:55:30,675 --> 00:55:32,807 I said, at the time, that it was, 986 00:55:32,851 --> 00:55:35,375 might as well hang up a shingle and say, 987 00:55:35,419 --> 00:55:37,812 "Welcome scumbags and sleaze balls" because those are the 988 00:55:37,856 --> 00:55:41,250 kind of people who want to keep their information secret, 989 00:55:41,294 --> 00:55:43,296 but it became a source of revenue, 990 00:55:43,340 --> 00:55:44,732 so you didn't have to raise taxes. 991 00:55:48,954 --> 00:55:52,392 Well, I'm afraid they're rolling back the protections 992 00:55:52,436 --> 00:55:53,717 that were put in at Dodd-Frank and a lot of that was about 993 00:55:53,741 --> 00:55:56,440 accountability and transparency. 994 00:55:56,483 --> 00:55:59,399 Banks fought that, so they're certainly not gonna want to open 995 00:55:59,443 --> 00:56:01,314 it up any further. 996 00:56:02,924 --> 00:56:07,538 You can find tax havens all around the world. 997 00:56:07,581 --> 00:56:10,018 They are in the U.S., they are in the UK. 998 00:56:10,062 --> 00:56:12,499 Now having done six of these projects, 999 00:56:12,543 --> 00:56:14,719 I would say with some certainty that the, 1000 00:56:14,762 --> 00:56:17,504 probably the biggest tax haven in the world is-is Britain, 1001 00:56:17,548 --> 00:56:21,116 and its, you know, its former colonies. 1002 00:56:21,769 --> 00:56:22,379 We're open for business. 1003 00:56:22,422 --> 00:56:23,989 We like oligarchs. 1004 00:56:24,032 --> 00:56:26,687 I don't want to exaggerate and say we're just a tax haven, 1005 00:56:26,731 --> 00:56:31,388 but you know, the-the state is-is captured by finance. 1006 00:56:32,563 --> 00:56:34,173 Close behind it is America, 1007 00:56:34,216 --> 00:56:36,456 and I think in the future, it would be great if someone gave 1008 00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,525 us, you know, Delaware leaks. 1009 00:56:38,569 --> 00:56:42,007 We would uncover, you know, secrets that may be bigger than 1010 00:56:42,050 --> 00:56:43,878 anything we've ever done before. 1011 00:56:45,184 --> 00:56:47,447 I call on the European Commission, 1012 00:56:47,491 --> 00:56:50,711 the British Parliament, the United States Congress, 1013 00:56:50,755 --> 00:56:53,714 and all nations to take swift action, 1014 00:56:53,758 --> 00:56:55,803 not only to protect whistleblowers, 1015 00:56:55,847 --> 00:56:58,806 but to put an end to the global abuse of corporate registers. 1016 00:57:00,460 --> 00:57:03,550 Tax evasion cannot possibly be fixed while elected officials 1017 00:57:03,594 --> 00:57:06,988 are pleading for money from the very elites who have the 1018 00:57:07,032 --> 00:57:09,730 strongest incentives to avoid taxes relative to any other 1019 00:57:09,774 --> 00:57:11,471 segment of the population. 1020 00:57:31,056 --> 00:57:34,625 I was actually concerned every day about the 1021 00:57:34,668 --> 00:57:39,412 security of this whole project because let's face the facts. 1022 00:57:39,456 --> 00:57:42,894 Journalists like to speak about their work. 1023 00:57:42,937 --> 00:57:45,026 You know, every journalist you bring in, 1024 00:57:45,070 --> 00:57:47,507 they're probably going to tell their life partner, 1025 00:57:47,551 --> 00:57:49,511 they're probably going to tell their best friends, 1026 00:57:49,553 --> 00:57:51,574 so the risks were going up exponentially every time you 1027 00:57:51,598 --> 00:57:53,295 brought somebody in. 1028 00:57:53,339 --> 00:57:56,690 We were so focused on the digital part that I think 1029 00:57:56,734 --> 00:57:59,650 you forget that a lot of journalists are going to need to 1030 00:57:59,693 --> 00:58:02,653 have interviews with sources, 1031 00:58:02,696 --> 00:58:06,047 they're going to have these interviews in bars or in cafes 1032 00:58:06,091 --> 00:58:10,138 or in public places, and they're not going to be conscious of the 1033 00:58:10,182 --> 00:58:12,663 fact that other people might be following them or listening to 1034 00:58:12,706 --> 00:58:14,099 their conversation. 1035 00:58:15,535 --> 00:58:16,817 It's funny, really, because to, generally, 1036 00:58:16,841 --> 00:58:19,496 toextract secrets from a journalist, 1037 00:58:19,539 --> 00:58:22,020 you just need to take the journalist to the bar, 1038 00:58:22,063 --> 00:58:24,544 buy the journalist a beer or maybe two beers, 1039 00:58:24,588 --> 00:58:27,112 if they're, if they're being kind of tricky, 1040 00:58:27,155 --> 00:58:29,201 and they will tell you everything. 1041 00:58:29,244 --> 00:58:31,048 My colleagues say, I haven't seen any stories. 1042 00:58:31,072 --> 00:58:32,030 What are you doing? 1043 00:58:32,073 --> 00:58:33,292 I say, it's a project. 1044 00:58:33,335 --> 00:58:35,729 It's a regional project, actually worldwide, 1045 00:58:35,773 --> 00:58:37,775 and we're just looking at something. 1046 00:58:37,818 --> 00:58:39,733 And they say, well, when's it coming out? 1047 00:58:39,777 --> 00:58:41,300 Well, I couldn't really answer. 1048 00:58:43,607 --> 00:58:46,697 You had this in mind the whole time that one 1049 00:58:46,740 --> 00:58:49,177 mistake could jeopardize the whole project. 1050 00:58:51,179 --> 00:58:52,635 My life, during all those months, 1051 00:58:52,659 --> 00:58:54,661 was kinda like a spy life. 1052 00:58:54,705 --> 00:58:56,881 I couldn't tell them what I was doing, 1053 00:58:56,924 --> 00:58:59,361 and I felt awful because, at the same time, 1054 00:58:59,405 --> 00:59:01,668 I was investigating my friends. 1055 00:59:01,712 --> 00:59:05,150 I would go to dinner parties, and during the day, 1056 00:59:05,193 --> 00:59:08,806 I was just searching documents that somehow mentioned them. 1057 00:59:09,894 --> 00:59:12,133 We felt responsible for their safety and that that 1058 00:59:12,157 --> 00:59:16,596 was also something we repeatedly told our colleagues. 1059 00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,512 Be aware that there is colleagues of us out there 1060 00:59:19,556 --> 00:59:21,558 risking their life with this reporting, 1061 00:59:21,601 --> 00:59:24,561 and if you tell too much, you could risk their life. 1062 01:00:02,511 --> 01:00:04,141 In the last weeks before our publication date, 1063 01:00:04,165 --> 01:00:07,647 we had to do everything to protect our source, 1064 01:00:07,691 --> 01:00:10,824 so we stopped all communications. 1065 01:00:10,868 --> 01:00:14,567 We destroyed effectively the-the devices that we used to 1066 01:00:14,611 --> 01:00:15,916 communicate with the source. 1067 01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:17,744 My iPhone and my computer. 1068 01:00:17,788 --> 01:00:22,053 We deleted all the files with several programs, 1069 01:00:22,096 --> 01:00:25,622 so run it over and over and over until it was 1070 01:00:25,665 --> 01:00:27,058 completely flat. 1071 01:00:27,101 --> 01:00:29,843 But then, again, we weren't really sure, 1072 01:00:29,887 --> 01:00:31,889 you know, if you really can trust this, 1073 01:00:31,932 --> 01:00:35,240 so, I more or less took a hammer and started 1074 01:00:35,283 --> 01:00:38,330 smashing the things. 1075 01:00:38,373 --> 01:00:41,899 We didn't want to throw it away because we were so paranoid back 1076 01:00:41,942 --> 01:00:45,554 then that we thoguh if someone finds it, 1077 01:00:45,598 --> 01:00:48,557 maybe he can do something with it. 1078 01:00:49,297 --> 01:00:52,039 The most dangerous moment in the investigation, 1079 01:00:52,083 --> 01:00:55,782 and the most tense moment, when we start reaching out to people 1080 01:00:55,826 --> 01:00:57,915 for comment. 1081 01:00:59,568 --> 01:01:04,704 If we have had a year to look at your bank information and your 1082 01:01:04,748 --> 01:01:08,099 company information, we are not going to surprise you. 1083 01:01:08,142 --> 01:01:10,275 You don't approach people and say, 1084 01:01:10,318 --> 01:01:13,539 listen, the team of Mossack Fonseca, 1085 01:01:13,582 --> 01:01:15,976 you lost all your data. 1086 01:01:18,152 --> 01:01:19,739 The camera crews for the broadcasters 1087 01:01:19,763 --> 01:01:21,982 involved in the project descended on the offices of 1088 01:01:22,026 --> 01:01:25,856 Mossack Fonseca in Panama City and demanded to talk to someone, 1089 01:01:25,899 --> 01:01:26,899 get a statement. 1090 01:01:37,345 --> 01:01:39,260 We sent them an email. 1091 01:01:39,304 --> 01:01:42,916 We saw documents that seemed to indicate that you have many 1092 01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:46,006 troubles with your due diligence and the way you choose 1093 01:01:46,050 --> 01:01:47,878 your customers. 1094 01:01:51,185 --> 01:01:54,362 Then it follows, um, a long list of questions. 1095 01:01:54,406 --> 01:01:56,800 Very detailed, very much to the cases. 1096 01:01:56,843 --> 01:02:00,107 So they said, we're not involved in illegal dealings. 1097 01:02:00,151 --> 01:02:04,285 We have never contact with the customers directly. 1098 01:02:04,329 --> 01:02:08,768 We only work with intermediaries, which are lies. 1099 01:02:08,812 --> 01:02:12,250 Well, I've heard, well now, everything might blow up. 1100 01:02:12,293 --> 01:02:15,166 Now it will be hundreds of lawyers trying to stop our 1101 01:02:15,209 --> 01:02:18,647 reporting, hundreds of people all around the world get 1102 01:02:18,691 --> 01:02:20,606 knowledge about our investigation, 1103 01:02:20,649 --> 01:02:22,695 and that's people like drug lords, 1104 01:02:22,739 --> 01:02:25,524 criminals, and of course we feared that something 1105 01:02:25,567 --> 01:02:26,568 might happen. 1106 01:02:32,966 --> 01:02:34,968 It was very stressful for-for all of us 1107 01:02:35,012 --> 01:02:38,972 because at that point, yeah, we had to call our sources, 1108 01:02:39,016 --> 01:02:41,366 we had to call the people that we were writing about, 1109 01:02:41,409 --> 01:02:47,285 and people started to know more and more and more. 1110 01:02:47,328 --> 01:02:51,855 We started to have a bodyguard because that's when we 1111 01:02:51,898 --> 01:02:55,293 received a non-direct threat by Mossack Fonseca. 1112 01:02:55,336 --> 01:02:57,488 So they came and said, you know, we know you have a journalist 1113 01:02:57,512 --> 01:02:59,906 who's helping the international media, 1114 01:02:59,950 --> 01:03:03,388 and she, and she's been she's been paid for, 1115 01:03:03,431 --> 01:03:07,087 and she is trying to diminish the reputation of 1116 01:03:07,131 --> 01:03:09,786 our firm and the country, and she was gonna have to, 1117 01:03:09,829 --> 01:03:13,006 you know, suffer the consequences. 1118 01:03:13,050 --> 01:03:14,418 So the paper immediately said, you know, 1119 01:03:14,442 --> 01:03:17,271 you can't be around without any protection. 1120 01:03:17,315 --> 01:03:19,056 My friends were here. 1121 01:03:19,099 --> 01:03:21,754 We go pick them up at the hotel, and there's, 1122 01:03:21,798 --> 01:03:23,843 there is a bodyguard there driving the car. 1123 01:03:23,887 --> 01:03:26,237 So we said, oh, it's just an Uber. 1124 01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:28,892 But we forgot to hide the gun he had in the middle of the 1125 01:03:28,935 --> 01:03:30,458 front seat. 1126 01:03:30,502 --> 01:03:35,115 We had to live a double life and-and that really was 1127 01:03:35,159 --> 01:03:39,206 something that changed our lives from that moment. 1128 01:03:42,819 --> 01:03:45,560 The most frightening moment for me 1129 01:03:45,604 --> 01:03:51,001 shortly before publication was when I personally had to write 1130 01:03:51,044 --> 01:03:55,875 an email to the Kremlin basically addressing it to "Dear 1131 01:03:55,919 --> 01:04:00,532 Mr. Vladimir Putin" and laying out what we found in regards to 1132 01:04:00,575 --> 01:04:06,538 this net of companies around his friend Sergei Roldugin that was 1133 01:04:06,581 --> 01:04:10,368 funneling hundreds of millions of dollar out of Russia, 1134 01:04:10,411 --> 01:04:15,199 and I've never written an email to Vladimir Putin before. 1135 01:04:15,242 --> 01:04:18,550 Some days later, Vladimir Putin's spokesperson, 1136 01:04:18,593 --> 01:04:22,946 Mr. Peskov, did a press conference in Moscow. 1137 01:04:22,989 --> 01:04:25,426 The documents show nothing 1138 01:04:25,470 --> 01:04:27,037 about Mister Putin. 1139 01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:32,390 Everything that was, interconnected with our 1140 01:04:32,433 --> 01:04:34,827 president, was written by newspapers. 1141 01:04:34,871 --> 01:04:37,264 It was written by journalists without having 1142 01:04:37,308 --> 01:04:39,919 obvious facts for that. 1143 01:04:39,963 --> 01:04:42,226 It was clear to me, oh, shit. 1144 01:04:42,269 --> 01:04:45,925 He's speaking about that email I sent some days ago. 1145 01:04:45,969 --> 01:04:47,971 And now we're understanding this is nothing 1146 01:04:48,014 --> 01:04:51,278 else by, but a reflection of, 1147 01:04:51,322 --> 01:04:54,281 let's say, an overwhelmed 1148 01:04:54,325 --> 01:04:58,155 Putin-aphobia disease that unfortunately has quite spread 1149 01:04:58,198 --> 01:05:03,203 now in lots of media. 1150 01:05:03,247 --> 01:05:07,077 It was clearly obvious that the Kremlin was pissed off. 1151 01:05:08,992 --> 01:05:13,126 We got a lot of legal threats and there were so many. 1152 01:05:13,170 --> 01:05:15,563 They were really piling up. 1153 01:05:15,607 --> 01:05:19,567 Everyone that we contacted recruited the best lawyers to 1154 01:05:19,611 --> 01:05:24,572 threaten ICIJ, to try to, um, get us to show them documents, 1155 01:05:24,616 --> 01:05:28,837 to try to get us to not publish the story. 1156 01:05:29,316 --> 01:05:32,450 Drug trafficking, income inequality, poverty. 1157 01:05:32,493 --> 01:05:34,974 You look at those problems in the world, 1158 01:05:35,018 --> 01:05:39,413 and a lot of the keys to addressing those problems are in 1159 01:05:39,457 --> 01:05:41,198 the Panama Papers. 1160 01:05:41,241 --> 01:05:47,117 Even though you feel like you, you may wake up one day and-and 1161 01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,250 have somebody in your bedroom pointing a gun at you, 1162 01:05:50,294 --> 01:05:53,384 you feel like youhave to keep going on this because it's 1163 01:05:53,427 --> 01:05:56,343 too important. 1164 01:05:59,346 --> 01:06:00,782 So coming from Iceland, 1165 01:06:00,826 --> 01:06:04,395 I knew that if I would start asking questions about the 1166 01:06:04,438 --> 01:06:06,397 offshore company of the Prime Minister, 1167 01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:11,924 early, then all the alarm bells would ring inside the 1168 01:06:11,968 --> 01:06:15,841 government and inside the institutions here in Iceland. 1169 01:06:15,884 --> 01:06:20,019 So we had to find a way to get 1170 01:06:20,063 --> 01:06:24,415 the reactions from the Prime Minister on camera. 1171 01:06:24,458 --> 01:06:29,028 So we decided after a lengthy talk about the ethical 1172 01:06:29,072 --> 01:06:32,423 issues, to confront him. 1173 01:06:33,337 --> 01:06:34,729 Mister Prime Minister, 1174 01:06:34,773 --> 01:06:39,038 what can you tell me about a company called Wintris? 1175 01:06:39,082 --> 01:06:45,175 Well, it's a company of, 1176 01:06:45,218 --> 01:06:49,048 if I recall correctly, which is associated with one of the 1177 01:06:49,092 --> 01:06:51,050 companies that I, was on a board of, 1178 01:06:51,094 --> 01:06:58,318 and, it was a, hadan account which as I, 1179 01:06:58,362 --> 01:07:03,541 as I mentioned, has been with the tax, 1180 01:07:03,584 --> 01:07:07,066 on the tax account since it was established. 1181 01:07:07,110 --> 01:07:10,069 So now I'm starting to feel a bit strange about this question 1182 01:07:10,113 --> 01:07:13,029 because it's like you are accusing me of something when 1183 01:07:13,072 --> 01:07:17,424 you are asking me about a company that has been on my-- 1184 01:07:17,468 --> 01:07:18,730 Let, let-- 1185 01:07:18,773 --> 01:07:19,968 --tax return from 1186 01:07:19,992 --> 01:07:21,254 the beginning. 1187 01:07:21,298 --> 01:07:22,753 Yeah, it must be okay for me as a 1188 01:07:22,777 --> 01:07:24,146 journalist to ask the Prime Minister about personal-- 1189 01:07:24,170 --> 01:07:25,737 Yes, sure. 1190 01:07:25,780 --> 01:07:28,696 But you are indicating that I have not paid, taxes on it. 1191 01:07:28,740 --> 01:07:29,891 No, I'm just asking you questions. 1192 01:07:29,915 --> 01:07:30,263 Okay, 1193 01:07:30,307 --> 01:07:31,656 okay. 1194 01:07:31,699 --> 01:07:33,373 So, so, uh, to go into the details, 1195 01:07:33,397 --> 01:07:35,592 I would like my partner to do it in Icelandic because I don't 1196 01:07:35,616 --> 01:07:38,402 have the details, uh, to discuss it. 1197 01:08:25,405 --> 01:08:26,991 The time between the interview and the 1198 01:08:27,015 --> 01:08:30,149 publication was a stressful time. 1199 01:08:30,193 --> 01:08:32,151 The wife of the Prime Minister, 1200 01:08:32,195 --> 01:08:36,634 she posted a Facebook status talking about some 1201 01:08:36,677 --> 01:08:39,463 attacks from the media. 1202 01:08:39,506 --> 01:08:42,727 Soon, I realized that, uh, we shouldn't be afraid because we 1203 01:08:42,770 --> 01:08:46,687 had all the materials, we had the interview, 1204 01:08:46,731 --> 01:08:49,690 uh, and uh, I talk, I told my staff, 1205 01:08:49,734 --> 01:08:52,606 you know, just relax because we are going to publish this and, 1206 01:08:52,650 --> 01:08:55,174 uh, it will be big. 1207 01:09:03,530 --> 01:09:05,334 We were utterly convinced that night that we were gonna 1208 01:09:05,358 --> 01:09:09,101 light the Blue Torch Paper despite nobody going beforehand, 1209 01:09:09,145 --> 01:09:11,103 there was still an air of expectancy. 1210 01:09:11,147 --> 01:09:13,192 People knew a big story was coming. 1211 01:09:13,236 --> 01:09:15,344 What was weird was about ten minutes before we were due 1212 01:09:15,368 --> 01:09:18,719 to press send, Edward Snowden tweeted out a link to the 1213 01:09:18,763 --> 01:09:21,635 English language website of SuĆ¼ddeutsche Zeitung MAN 4: The 1214 01:09:21,679 --> 01:09:25,030 people who follow him then were alerted to this, 1215 01:09:25,073 --> 01:09:27,119 and that's a pretty wide universe. 1216 01:09:27,163 --> 01:09:29,121 Gerard Ryle, the Director of the ICIJ, 1217 01:09:29,165 --> 01:09:31,428 is hammering the phones getting everyone to just hold 1218 01:09:31,471 --> 01:09:33,169 their nerve. 1219 01:09:33,212 --> 01:09:34,581 I thought it was very important that we all hold the 1220 01:09:34,605 --> 01:09:36,650 line, that what was happening with the press 1221 01:09:36,694 --> 01:09:39,305 conference from the Kremlin and what was happening in Iceland at 1222 01:09:39,349 --> 01:09:41,699 the time where parts of the story were getting out through 1223 01:09:41,742 --> 01:09:44,223 Facebook, through the Icelandic Prime Minister's wife, 1224 01:09:44,267 --> 01:09:46,269 like there was a lot of nervousness, 1225 01:09:46,312 --> 01:09:48,271 and I really thought that all of these events, 1226 01:09:48,314 --> 01:09:50,403 all of these small things happening, 1227 01:09:50,447 --> 01:09:52,381 even though, you know, we were being talked about a week 1228 01:09:52,405 --> 01:09:54,407 beforehand, no one really knew the bigger story. 1229 01:09:54,451 --> 01:09:56,429 You know, I'm, uh, describing it a bit like a, 1230 01:09:56,453 --> 01:09:59,543 a general standing at the top of the hill holding back the 1231 01:09:59,586 --> 01:10:02,241 troops, you know, waiting as the opposing army approaches, 1232 01:10:02,285 --> 01:10:05,331 approaches, you know, hold, hold, hold, go! 1233 01:10:05,375 --> 01:10:06,376 Charge! 1234 01:10:06,419 --> 01:10:08,421 When that day hits, 1235 01:10:08,465 --> 01:10:11,207 things happen fairly quickly. 1236 01:10:13,339 --> 01:10:15,820 The so-called Panama Papers now exposing the 1237 01:10:15,863 --> 01:10:20,259 secret financial dealings of politicians and celebrities. 1238 01:10:20,303 --> 01:10:22,305 Many of the world's most powerful 1239 01:10:22,348 --> 01:10:24,742 politicians, wealthy business owners and popular celebrities 1240 01:10:24,785 --> 01:10:27,266 are now desperately trying to distance themselves from the 1241 01:10:27,310 --> 01:10:31,444 fallout and consequences of the Panama Papers. 1242 01:10:31,488 --> 01:10:34,273 There was an immediate response on social media. 1243 01:10:34,317 --> 01:10:36,275 They're all on the inside, 1244 01:10:36,319 --> 01:10:38,190 we are out on the street looking in. 1245 01:10:38,234 --> 01:10:40,061 Hello? 1246 01:10:40,105 --> 01:10:41,735 This thing exploded and took an entire life of its own. 1247 01:10:41,759 --> 01:10:43,824 We turn now to the banking bombshell causing 1248 01:10:43,848 --> 01:10:45,415 shockwaves around the world. 1249 01:10:45,458 --> 01:10:46,522 Panama Papers... 1250 01:10:48,156 --> 01:10:49,699 The Panama Papers... 1251 01:10:49,723 --> 01:10:51,005 The Panama Papers. 1252 01:10:51,029 --> 01:10:52,485 What may be the largest leak of secret documents 1253 01:10:52,509 --> 01:10:54,119 in history. 1254 01:10:54,162 --> 01:10:55,836 A blockbuster release of millions of 1255 01:10:55,860 --> 01:10:57,340 financial documents. 1256 01:10:57,383 --> 01:10:59,448 This is the biggest attack on the tax 1257 01:10:59,472 --> 01:11:00,560 shelter industry. 1258 01:11:00,604 --> 01:11:01,711 It's a trillion dollar industry. 1259 01:11:01,735 --> 01:11:02,649 It is. 1260 01:11:02,693 --> 01:11:03,887 It is a trillion dollar industry. 1261 01:11:03,911 --> 01:11:05,783 The UK, France, Australia, Mexico, 1262 01:11:05,826 --> 01:11:08,046 all say they're going to investigate. 1263 01:11:08,916 --> 01:11:13,834 When it blew up, I had no idea the size of 1264 01:11:13,878 --> 01:11:15,619 the situation. 1265 01:11:15,662 --> 01:11:17,249 Panama Police have raided the offices of the 1266 01:11:17,273 --> 01:11:20,667 law firm at the center of the country's massive data leak. 1267 01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:34,246 Now the problem is can the various judicial systems of the 1268 01:11:34,290 --> 01:11:38,206 world handle all of this material without getting a 1269 01:11:38,250 --> 01:11:41,601 horrendous case of indigestion? 1270 01:12:09,412 --> 01:12:11,651 We have always dealt with professional clients all 1271 01:12:11,675 --> 01:12:13,111 over the world, only. 1272 01:12:13,154 --> 01:12:16,288 After the publication, the example they gave it, 1273 01:12:16,332 --> 01:12:18,203 we were like a knife factory, you know? 1274 01:12:18,246 --> 01:12:19,465 We sell the knives. 1275 01:12:19,509 --> 01:12:21,554 If people kill, kill other people with knives, 1276 01:12:21,598 --> 01:12:23,382 it is not our fault. 1277 01:12:23,426 --> 01:12:27,212 The problem is they always knew who had the knives and what were 1278 01:12:27,255 --> 01:12:29,432 they gonna do with the knives. 1279 01:12:30,215 --> 01:12:32,062 The law firm is denying any wrongdoing. 1280 01:12:32,086 --> 01:12:36,308 When we'd realized how big it was was when we saw people 1281 01:12:36,352 --> 01:12:38,745 going out in the streets. 1282 01:12:42,662 --> 01:12:44,336 Thousands of Icelanders took the streets, 1283 01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:47,058 calling on the Prime Minister to resign following allegations he 1284 01:12:47,101 --> 01:12:49,016 benefited from offshore holdings and tax havens. 1285 01:12:52,977 --> 01:12:56,720 The first casualty of the Panama Papers 1286 01:12:56,763 --> 01:12:58,243 has fallen. 1287 01:12:58,286 --> 01:13:01,115 Prime Minister of Iceland yielded his post on Tuesday amid 1288 01:13:01,159 --> 01:13:03,509 public uproar that he failed to disclose links to an 1289 01:13:03,553 --> 01:13:05,337 offshore company. 1290 01:13:10,864 --> 01:13:13,650 Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, he may be thrown 1291 01:13:13,693 --> 01:13:15,584 out of office over allegations that his family owned several 1292 01:13:15,608 --> 01:13:17,436 illegal offshore businesses. 1293 01:13:20,483 --> 01:13:23,790 Corruption and bribery at the highest level 1294 01:13:23,834 --> 01:13:26,154 on the streets of Rio Sao Paulo and dozens of other cities. 1295 01:13:26,184 --> 01:13:29,579 Protestors laid the blame at the door of President 1296 01:13:29,622 --> 01:13:30,754 Dilma Rousseff. 1297 01:13:30,797 --> 01:13:32,799 Every day there is a new scandal. 1298 01:13:32,843 --> 01:13:34,603 Every day there is something related to money being taken out 1299 01:13:34,627 --> 01:13:36,586 of the country. 1300 01:13:36,629 --> 01:13:38,433 We have some breaking news from Brazil where 1301 01:13:38,457 --> 01:13:41,765 the senate there has voted to impeach President Dilma Rousseff 1302 01:13:41,808 --> 01:13:44,028 and plunges the country into political chaos. 1303 01:13:44,071 --> 01:13:45,682 Look at Brazil. 1304 01:13:45,725 --> 01:13:49,337 That's probably the country where the Panama Papers has had 1305 01:13:49,381 --> 01:13:50,381 the most impact. 1306 01:13:54,647 --> 01:13:56,867 Iceland got the headlines with the president. 1307 01:13:56,910 --> 01:14:00,087 The entire ruling structure of Brazil is crumbling 1308 01:14:00,131 --> 01:14:01,935 because so many of them are tied into this money 1309 01:14:01,959 --> 01:14:03,569 laundering scheme. 1310 01:14:07,181 --> 01:14:08,681 Protestors in the Argentine capital Buenos 1311 01:14:08,705 --> 01:14:10,900 Aires are calling for the country's president to step down 1312 01:14:10,924 --> 01:14:13,797 after the so-called Panama Papers revealed Mauricio Macri 1313 01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:17,931 is on the board of two offshore firms: One in the Bahamas, 1314 01:14:17,975 --> 01:14:19,542 the other in Panama. 1315 01:14:19,585 --> 01:14:22,980 Several thousand people filled a square 1316 01:14:23,023 --> 01:14:26,505 in Malta's capital on Sunday, and demanded the resignation of 1317 01:14:26,549 --> 01:14:27,985 Prime Minister Joseph Muscat. 1318 01:14:28,028 --> 01:14:30,596 My mother was in Malta alone, 1319 01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:34,295 fighting this with no, no one backing her at all. 1320 01:14:34,339 --> 01:14:36,950 No institution. 1321 01:14:36,994 --> 01:14:39,475 Daphne had been working on a number of post-Panama 1322 01:14:39,518 --> 01:14:41,520 Paper stories. 1323 01:14:41,564 --> 01:14:44,175 She wasn't involved in the Panama Papers investigation 1324 01:14:44,218 --> 01:14:46,743 itself, but she had taken our reporting and gone further. 1325 01:14:51,878 --> 01:14:52,966 Good evening. 1326 01:14:53,010 --> 01:14:54,410 Um, today, the, yesterday's piece... 1327 01:15:04,456 --> 01:15:06,023 There are no bank accounts, 1328 01:15:06,066 --> 01:15:07,503 uh, no, no, no funds. 1329 01:15:15,206 --> 01:15:16,357 And there are absolutely no funds. 1330 01:15:16,381 --> 01:15:17,381 Thank you. 1331 01:15:19,384 --> 01:15:22,605 When the story broke, they didn't resign. 1332 01:15:22,648 --> 01:15:24,171 I mean, I couldn't believe it. 1333 01:15:24,215 --> 01:15:26,696 I could see, I mean, it was like a disaster unfolding in 1334 01:15:26,739 --> 01:15:27,739 slow motion. 1335 01:16:00,773 --> 01:16:03,167 British Prime Minister David Cameron faces 1336 01:16:03,210 --> 01:16:06,649 backlash for implications in the recently leaked Panama Papers. 1337 01:16:06,692 --> 01:16:08,017 And that's when things in the UK just went 1338 01:16:08,041 --> 01:16:10,478 really crazy. 1339 01:16:11,958 --> 01:16:13,612 There was turmoil in this country. 1340 01:16:13,656 --> 01:16:15,353 David Cameron had the worst week. 1341 01:16:17,747 --> 01:16:21,577 Thank you, Mister Speaker. 1342 01:16:21,620 --> 01:16:23,100 Thank you, Mister Speaker. 1343 01:16:23,143 --> 01:16:23,927 With permission, I would like to make a statement on the 1344 01:16:23,970 --> 01:16:25,319 Panama Papers. 1345 01:16:25,755 --> 01:16:27,583 Dealing with my own circumstances first, 1346 01:16:27,626 --> 01:16:30,977 yesterday I published all the information in my tax returns, 1347 01:16:31,021 --> 01:16:33,545 not just for the last year, but for the last six years. 1348 01:16:33,589 --> 01:16:35,895 I've also given additional information about money 1349 01:16:35,939 --> 01:16:39,116 inherited and given to me by my family so people can see the 1350 01:16:39,159 --> 01:16:41,118 sources of income that I have. 1351 01:16:41,161 --> 01:16:43,686 This is an entirely standard practice, 1352 01:16:43,729 --> 01:16:46,732 and it is not to avoid tax. 1353 01:16:46,776 --> 01:16:50,170 May I thank the Prime Minister for the 1354 01:16:50,214 --> 01:16:52,085 advance site of his statement. 1355 01:16:52,129 --> 01:16:55,915 It is absolutely a masterclass in the art of distraction. 1356 01:16:58,831 --> 01:17:00,983 He refused to say whether he had any money in his 1357 01:17:01,007 --> 01:17:02,139 father's offshore fund. 1358 01:17:02,182 --> 01:17:04,184 He'd gone on record saying, 1359 01:17:04,228 --> 01:17:06,143 we've gotta end secrecy about tax avoidance. 1360 01:17:06,186 --> 01:17:08,624 He'd gone on record saying we've gotta shine a light on where 1361 01:17:08,667 --> 01:17:10,234 this money comes from. 1362 01:17:10,277 --> 01:17:12,584 Some of these schemes where people are parking huge 1363 01:17:12,628 --> 01:17:15,935 amounts of money offshore and taking loans back to just 1364 01:17:15,979 --> 01:17:20,157 minimize their tax rates, it is not morally acceptable. 1365 01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:22,289 So he then had to come out, 1366 01:17:22,333 --> 01:17:24,857 and this was the fourth or fifth explanation over a period of 1367 01:17:24,901 --> 01:17:26,772 three days, saying, well, actually, 1368 01:17:26,816 --> 01:17:28,034 I did benefit from the shares. 1369 01:17:28,078 --> 01:17:30,820 Samantha and I had a joint account. 1370 01:17:30,863 --> 01:17:33,866 We owned, uh, 5,000 units in Blaire Moore, 1371 01:17:33,910 --> 01:17:38,915 uh, Investment Trust, which we sold in January, uh, 2010. 1372 01:17:38,958 --> 01:17:41,787 Uh, that was worth something like 30,000 pounds. 1373 01:17:41,831 --> 01:17:43,876 Was there a profit on it? 1374 01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:45,922 I paid, um, income tax on the dividends, 1375 01:17:45,965 --> 01:17:48,011 but there was a profit on it, 1376 01:17:48,054 --> 01:17:50,796 but it was less than the capital gains tax allowance, 1377 01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:52,885 so I didn't pay capital gains tax, 1378 01:17:52,929 --> 01:17:55,671 but it was subject to all the UK taxes in all the normal ways. 1379 01:17:57,150 --> 01:17:59,283 A few months later, Britain was gonna hold a 1380 01:17:59,326 --> 01:18:03,330 referendum on whether to leave the European Union. 1381 01:18:03,374 --> 01:18:06,812 People of Britain have spoken, 1382 01:18:06,856 --> 01:18:08,901 voting for a British exit, dubbed Brexit, 1383 01:18:08,945 --> 01:18:11,904 with almost 52% of the votes choosing to leave the 28 1384 01:18:11,948 --> 01:18:15,038 member European Union. 1385 01:18:15,081 --> 01:18:17,780 And Cameron was the figurehead for Romaine, 1386 01:18:17,823 --> 01:18:21,044 but the British press is dominated by press barrons who 1387 01:18:21,087 --> 01:18:24,961 wanted us to leave, and it suited their agenda to destroy 1388 01:18:25,004 --> 01:18:26,571 the figurehead for Romane. 1389 01:18:28,704 --> 01:18:30,769 On Wednesday, I would attend the House of Commons for 1390 01:18:30,793 --> 01:18:33,273 Prime Ministers, answer questions, and then after that, 1391 01:18:33,317 --> 01:18:36,276 I expect to go to the Palace and offer my resignation, 1392 01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:38,888 so we'll have a new Prime Minister in that building behind 1393 01:18:38,931 --> 01:18:41,064 me by Wednesday evening. 1394 01:18:41,107 --> 01:18:43,153 Thank you very much. 1395 01:18:44,197 --> 01:18:46,765 Cameron helped to create this moral atmosphere which 1396 01:18:46,809 --> 01:18:50,334 said, look, this behavior is wrong and should not be helped 1397 01:18:50,377 --> 01:18:53,903 by the laws that we have in existence at the moment. 1398 01:19:00,431 --> 01:19:03,086 The documents show allies to Russian President Vladimir 1399 01:19:03,129 --> 01:19:06,089 Putin secretly shuffled as much as $2 billion through 1400 01:19:06,132 --> 01:19:08,787 banks and shadow companies. 1401 01:19:08,831 --> 01:19:10,678 Day one, of course, was Vladimir Putin and the two 1402 01:19:10,702 --> 01:19:13,226 $2 billion worth of money that led back to him, 1403 01:19:13,270 --> 01:19:15,098 which was a remarkable story. 1404 01:19:15,141 --> 01:19:17,970 It's been one of international journalism's holy grails, 1405 01:19:18,014 --> 01:19:19,885 really, that story. 1406 01:19:19,929 --> 01:19:21,863 The papers revealed the identity of a suspiciously 1407 01:19:21,887 --> 01:19:26,762 rich cellist, which raises immediate red flags for me, 1408 01:19:26,805 --> 01:19:29,001 'cause I always thought the only way to make millions with a 1409 01:19:29,025 --> 01:19:31,810 cello is to use it to dig for gold. 1410 01:20:01,666 --> 01:20:03,078 You know, he's basically saying we're all spies. 1411 01:20:03,102 --> 01:20:05,888 We scheme dastardly stuff to try and defame the 1412 01:20:05,931 --> 01:20:07,933 Russian Federation. 1413 01:20:07,977 --> 01:20:09,128 Now, of course that isn't the case, 1414 01:20:09,152 --> 01:20:10,980 and if it were a CIA plot-- 1415 01:20:12,372 --> 01:20:14,287 --how come David Cameron got sucked in? 1416 01:20:14,331 --> 01:20:15,874 How come demonstrations in Iceland 1417 01:20:15,898 --> 01:20:17,943 and Argentina? 1418 01:20:18,901 --> 01:20:20,511 I mean the hilarious thing, 1419 01:20:20,554 --> 01:20:24,776 you know, is that Putin ended up having to buy lots of cellos. 1420 01:20:25,429 --> 01:20:27,102 Roldugin bought lots of cellos because he said it was for 1421 01:20:27,126 --> 01:20:29,868 buying cellos, so they went and bought a lot of cellos after. 1422 01:20:34,177 --> 01:20:37,833 This wasn't on official news in Russia. 1423 01:20:37,876 --> 01:20:40,009 Unless you were looking at foreign media, 1424 01:20:40,052 --> 01:20:43,229 you had no idea that the Panama Papers broke. 1425 01:20:43,273 --> 01:20:45,971 The officials who were implicated in these documents 1426 01:20:46,015 --> 01:20:48,844 would retaliate against journalists. 1427 01:20:48,887 --> 01:20:49,888 It's real. 1428 01:20:49,932 --> 01:20:51,194 Journalists have been killed. 1429 01:20:55,415 --> 01:20:57,002 A car exploded in flames in the Ukrainian 1430 01:20:57,026 --> 01:21:00,507 capital of Kiev early Wednesday morning inside a prominent 1431 01:21:00,551 --> 01:21:02,858 journalist, Pavel Sheremet. 1432 01:21:06,122 --> 01:21:08,100 An eye witness to the blast says several people 1433 01:21:08,124 --> 01:21:09,753 tried to pull Sheremet from the car, but it appeared 1434 01:21:09,777 --> 01:21:10,953 he was already dead. 1435 01:21:11,562 --> 01:21:13,825 In Russia, journalists, um, 1436 01:21:13,869 --> 01:21:15,783 both in the big cities and the provinces, 1437 01:21:15,827 --> 01:21:18,003 get killed, shot, beaten to death. 1438 01:21:18,047 --> 01:21:20,005 Roman Anin who works for Novaya Gazeta, 1439 01:21:20,049 --> 01:21:22,399 he was kind of instrumental in, in chasing the, 1440 01:21:22,442 --> 01:21:24,420 following the money all the way to Putin and making that kind 1441 01:21:24,444 --> 01:21:25,444 of connection. 1442 01:21:39,329 --> 01:21:41,089 The Kremlin pretty soon found out who our Russia 1443 01:21:41,113 --> 01:21:46,031 partners are, so there was TV programs that were, 1444 01:21:46,075 --> 01:21:48,729 that basically screamed something like, 1445 01:21:48,773 --> 01:21:53,169 "Wanted" posters of the two of them putting out information, 1446 01:21:53,212 --> 01:21:55,693 um, on them, detailed information that could lead 1447 01:21:55,736 --> 01:21:59,131 people to the place where they work or potentially where 1448 01:21:59,175 --> 01:22:00,654 they live. 1449 01:22:00,698 --> 01:22:03,744 They, to a certain point, left Russia for a while. 1450 01:22:07,009 --> 01:22:09,881 We were treated as, uh, traitors. 1451 01:22:09,925 --> 01:22:12,188 There were publications all over the social networks and 1452 01:22:12,231 --> 01:22:15,365 everywhere blaming us for selling our country, 1453 01:22:15,408 --> 01:22:17,193 blaming us for treason. 1454 01:22:17,236 --> 01:22:19,084 Theywere people saying, "What should we do with a 1455 01:22:19,108 --> 01:22:20,500 traitor journalist?" 1456 01:22:20,544 --> 01:22:22,067 with our names. 1457 01:22:22,111 --> 01:22:23,784 They said, well, should we throw them off the bridge of 1458 01:22:23,808 --> 01:22:24,852 the canal? 1459 01:22:24,896 --> 01:22:26,942 Should we send them to Punta Coco, 1460 01:22:26,985 --> 01:22:28,856 which is equivalent of Alcatraz for Panama, 1461 01:22:28,900 --> 01:22:29,921 or should we just send them to La Joya, 1462 01:22:29,945 --> 01:22:31,729 which is a maximum security prison. 1463 01:22:32,686 --> 01:22:33,837 This sort of thing is happening 1464 01:22:33,861 --> 01:22:34,819 a lot of, a lot of places in the world, 1465 01:22:34,862 --> 01:22:36,125 it's absolutely terrifying. 1466 01:22:36,168 --> 01:22:38,605 Me personally, I've been physically threatened, 1467 01:22:38,649 --> 01:22:40,129 I've been threatened with lawsuits. 1468 01:22:40,172 --> 01:22:42,218 Um, but I'm really lucky. 1469 01:22:42,261 --> 01:22:44,220 I, you know, I work in the United States. 1470 01:22:44,263 --> 01:22:46,613 It's really bad form to kill a journalist here. 1471 01:22:46,657 --> 01:22:49,181 Investigative journalism is hard enough without having to worry, 1472 01:22:49,225 --> 01:22:51,792 do all that kind of moral math, um, 1473 01:22:51,836 --> 01:22:53,403 physical risk. 1474 01:22:53,446 --> 01:22:54,467 It's something that war correspondents are used to doing 1475 01:22:54,491 --> 01:22:55,796 all the time. 1476 01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:56,991 In a way, it kind of feels like we're all war 1477 01:22:57,015 --> 01:22:58,364 correspondents now. 1478 01:23:01,367 --> 01:23:04,414 This just shows how vulnerable reporters around the 1479 01:23:04,457 --> 01:23:07,330 world working on corruption issues are. 1480 01:23:10,159 --> 01:23:14,772 One answer to that vulnerability is working in networks and 1481 01:23:14,815 --> 01:23:16,730 in teams. 1482 01:23:17,993 --> 01:23:20,691 You can't take down 376 reporters. 1483 01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:28,177 For the Panama Papers, 1484 01:23:28,220 --> 01:23:30,918 reporting that explored the hidden infrastructure and global 1485 01:23:30,962 --> 01:23:33,486 scale of offshore tax havens... 1486 01:23:35,184 --> 01:23:37,379 The Pulitzer Prize and explanatory reporting goes 1487 01:23:37,403 --> 01:23:41,494 to... The International Consortium of Investigative 1488 01:23:41,538 --> 01:23:45,237 Journalists, McClatchy and the Miami Herald. 1489 01:23:46,847 --> 01:23:50,286 Just the idea that we were able to-to finish the 1490 01:23:50,329 --> 01:23:56,248 Panama Papers despite all of the doubts and publish it along with 1491 01:23:56,292 --> 01:23:58,381 all of these other reporters all across the world. 1492 01:24:04,256 --> 01:24:07,520 And it felt so surreal because the Pulitzer is 1493 01:24:07,564 --> 01:24:11,133 something you always dream of as a journalist, 1494 01:24:11,176 --> 01:24:13,787 but as a German journalist, it's something that you can normally 1495 01:24:13,831 --> 01:24:15,963 not reach. 1496 01:24:22,187 --> 01:24:23,773 It's nice to show that journalists can actually work 1497 01:24:23,797 --> 01:24:25,471 together, and I think that's something that we always thought 1498 01:24:25,495 --> 01:24:26,452 would never happen. 1499 01:24:26,496 --> 01:24:28,411 You know, journalists are selfish, 1500 01:24:28,454 --> 01:24:30,369 we don't share stories, we don't share sources. 1501 01:24:30,413 --> 01:24:31,979 We've just proven that that's wrong, 1502 01:24:32,023 --> 01:24:33,305 that, in fact, you can get a better story sometimes if you 1503 01:24:33,329 --> 01:24:36,071 do, if you do share. 1504 01:24:38,203 --> 01:24:41,685 You do need big, international teams to cover 1505 01:24:41,728 --> 01:24:44,035 big, international topics. 1506 01:24:45,645 --> 01:24:47,319 Then it cleared the way for us to spend the rest of the 1507 01:24:47,343 --> 01:24:50,389 year really doing the kind of stuff that you couldn't do on 1508 01:24:50,433 --> 01:24:52,280 the first day, but were just as important as the first 1509 01:24:52,304 --> 01:24:53,871 day stories. 1510 01:24:59,746 --> 01:25:01,550 I thought that this would be the time that we can 1511 01:25:01,574 --> 01:25:06,188 refocus and go into the stories we hadn't yet the time to 1512 01:25:06,231 --> 01:25:13,760 finish, but then we heard this terrible news from Malta where 1513 01:25:13,804 --> 01:25:18,243 Daphne Galizia, um, was killed in a-a car bombing. 1514 01:25:18,287 --> 01:25:22,160 The son of the investigative journalist, 1515 01:25:22,204 --> 01:25:24,530 Daphne Caruana Galizia, who was killed in a car bomb attack in 1516 01:25:24,554 --> 01:25:27,513 Malta has attacked the island as a mafia state run by what he 1517 01:25:27,557 --> 01:25:28,949 called crooks. 1518 01:25:28,993 --> 01:25:31,474 His 53-year-old mother, who was killed yesterday, 1519 01:25:31,517 --> 01:25:34,477 was known for her blog accusing politicians of high-level 1520 01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:38,176 corruption and she led the Panama Papers investigation into 1521 01:25:38,220 --> 01:25:39,873 corruption on the island. 1522 01:25:41,875 --> 01:25:43,462 We couldn't have been more shocked when-when we found 1523 01:25:43,486 --> 01:25:44,985 out that Daphne, you know, Matthew's mother, 1524 01:25:45,009 --> 01:25:47,098 had been blown up. 1525 01:25:47,142 --> 01:25:51,015 I mean, it just seemed so senseless and-and crazy. 1526 01:25:53,104 --> 01:25:54,627 It was, the message was, 1527 01:25:54,671 --> 01:26:00,198 look, we can, we can do this and we can get away with it. 1528 01:26:00,242 --> 01:26:03,288 We have, there's no deterrent. 1529 01:26:03,332 --> 01:26:08,075 We can strike whoever we want, whenever we want and get away 1530 01:26:08,119 --> 01:26:10,817 with it. 1531 01:26:14,517 --> 01:26:15,711 The fact that she was killed in Malta, 1532 01:26:15,735 --> 01:26:17,694 you're talking about a European country. 1533 01:26:17,737 --> 01:26:21,872 That really shocked not just us, but also the world. 1534 01:26:24,396 --> 01:26:26,069 You know, this, what happened to Daphne, 1535 01:26:26,093 --> 01:26:31,316 it-it never, we never thought anything could happen in Malta. 1536 01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:33,231 Daphne was, you know, very much a, 1537 01:26:33,275 --> 01:26:34,580 a fearless investigator. 1538 01:26:34,624 --> 01:26:38,236 You know, a, a lone, a lone voice in a sense. 1539 01:26:39,368 --> 01:26:40,736 She was very frustrated with-with mainstream media. 1540 01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:42,197 I don't know. 1541 01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:46,201 People just gravitated towards her blog naturally. 1542 01:26:46,766 --> 01:26:48,396 Daphne was fierce, and she was a blogger, 1543 01:26:48,420 --> 01:26:50,572 so she had a lot more freedom than newspaper journalists in 1544 01:26:50,596 --> 01:26:53,251 terms of expressing her opinion, and she used it. 1545 01:26:53,295 --> 01:26:56,254 My article went up at 7:00 in the evening, 1546 01:26:56,298 --> 01:26:59,344 and two and a half hours later, by half past nine, 1547 01:26:59,388 --> 01:27:03,609 the police are already at my gate with a warrant for my 1548 01:27:03,653 --> 01:27:07,918 arrest issued by a magistrate within two and a half hours. 1549 01:27:07,961 --> 01:27:13,489 The police cannot understand why I will not abide by the law and 1550 01:27:13,532 --> 01:27:16,796 sit at home quietly and not write anything about politics. 1551 01:27:16,840 --> 01:27:22,106 She was one addressing things many politicians did not 1552 01:27:22,149 --> 01:27:24,021 want to hear. 1553 01:27:25,675 --> 01:27:29,635 She wrote about corruption at the highest levels 1554 01:27:29,679 --> 01:27:31,420 of government. 1555 01:27:31,463 --> 01:27:32,614 You know, I mean I always get, 1556 01:27:32,638 --> 01:27:34,727 like, you know, the-the usual people, 1557 01:27:34,771 --> 01:27:37,164 "Don't worry, the truth will come to light. 1558 01:27:37,208 --> 01:27:38,470 Good always wins. 1559 01:27:38,514 --> 01:27:40,167 There will be justice." 1560 01:27:40,211 --> 01:27:42,300 My mother always thought that was bullshit. 1561 01:27:44,433 --> 01:27:46,217 She wasn't just outspoken. 1562 01:27:46,261 --> 01:27:48,654 She was effective, and I think that's why she's-she's 1563 01:27:48,698 --> 01:27:50,613 been killed. 1564 01:27:54,660 --> 01:27:56,662 What was particularly shocking was that, 1565 01:27:56,706 --> 01:28:00,579 for some people, um, this assassination was a-a cause 1566 01:28:00,623 --> 01:28:02,189 of celebration. 1567 01:28:02,233 --> 01:28:06,324 One police officer actually tweeted that he was pleased that 1568 01:28:06,368 --> 01:28:09,719 this had happened and-and called her "cow dung" the day after, 1569 01:28:09,762 --> 01:28:13,592 so you know, there wasn't universal condemnation of this 1570 01:28:13,636 --> 01:28:14,680 act in Malta. 1571 01:28:14,724 --> 01:28:17,204 Perhaps there should have been. 1572 01:28:17,988 --> 01:28:19,487 A court in Malta has charged three men with 1573 01:28:19,511 --> 01:28:21,905 the murder of Daphne Caruana Galiza. 1574 01:28:21,948 --> 01:28:24,386 Maltase media say the authorities honed in on the 1575 01:28:24,429 --> 01:28:27,737 suspects following telephone intercepts. 1576 01:28:27,780 --> 01:28:30,087 Police arrested 10 men on on Monday in connection with 1577 01:28:30,130 --> 01:28:31,828 the killing. 1578 01:28:31,871 --> 01:28:35,614 Seven have been released on bail pending further inquiries. 1579 01:28:36,398 --> 01:28:38,878 It was just all a big show. 1580 01:28:38,922 --> 01:28:42,447 I am quite confident that they were the people who 1581 01:28:42,491 --> 01:28:46,538 executed the orders to assassinate my mother, 1582 01:28:46,582 --> 01:28:48,845 but my mother never wrote about them, 1583 01:28:48,888 --> 01:28:52,762 she never investigated them, she had no idea who they were. 1584 01:28:52,805 --> 01:28:56,331 They've probably never even read what she wrote. 1585 01:28:57,897 --> 01:28:59,832 They may have the people who-who pushed a button, 1586 01:28:59,856 --> 01:29:01,814 who-who, you know, who set off the bomb, 1587 01:29:01,858 --> 01:29:03,488 but they're definitely not the masterminds, 1588 01:29:03,512 --> 01:29:05,620 and they definitely, you know, wouldn't have had the motive to 1589 01:29:05,644 --> 01:29:08,255 do it, so the big question is, you know, 1590 01:29:08,299 --> 01:29:10,257 who ordered this kill, and ultimately, 1591 01:29:10,301 --> 01:29:13,217 who paid them, as well? 1592 01:29:14,740 --> 01:29:18,265 The way it was done, it was also a way of getting 1593 01:29:18,309 --> 01:29:20,137 sources to stop talking. 1594 01:30:03,485 --> 01:30:06,052 The two founders of Panamanian law firm 1595 01:30:06,096 --> 01:30:09,665 Mossack Fonseca were arrested after both were indicted on 1596 01:30:09,708 --> 01:30:11,536 charges of money laundering. 1597 01:31:15,165 --> 01:31:18,603 Porcell, I think, is trying to do what has to be 1598 01:31:18,647 --> 01:31:24,522 done, but the judiciary, which is where she has to deposit 1599 01:31:24,566 --> 01:31:31,921 her investigations, has zero credibility at this point. 1600 01:31:32,791 --> 01:31:36,926 If you talk to Panamanians out there about this, 1601 01:31:36,969 --> 01:31:39,624 the reaction is "No pasa nada"... 1602 01:31:39,668 --> 01:31:41,844 Nothing will happen. 1603 01:31:41,887 --> 01:31:42,951 I don't think that's right. 1604 01:31:42,975 --> 01:31:45,587 I think that something will happen. 1605 01:31:45,630 --> 01:31:49,460 We have an ex-president of the Supreme Court in jail. 1606 01:31:49,504 --> 01:31:52,594 We have an ex-president in jail in Miami. 1607 01:31:52,637 --> 01:31:55,248 I mean, there are things happening. 1608 01:31:59,818 --> 01:32:02,081 I feel that somewhere along the way, 1609 01:32:02,125 --> 01:32:05,563 in incremental bits, we'll be solving these problems. 1610 01:32:05,607 --> 01:32:10,394 It's just a, a human problem that we have to face all over 1611 01:32:10,437 --> 01:32:12,701 the world. 1612 01:32:14,616 --> 01:32:16,705 This is not only about Panama, 1613 01:32:16,748 --> 01:32:20,665 that's a worldwide problem, and if it should get solved, 1614 01:32:20,709 --> 01:32:22,754 it's something that has to be addressed in the U.S., 1615 01:32:22,798 --> 01:32:24,321 as well. 1616 01:32:24,364 --> 01:32:25,994 One of the things that led to change on the U.S. 1617 01:32:26,018 --> 01:32:30,588 end that both Nevada and Wyoming changed their laws based on some 1618 01:32:30,632 --> 01:32:32,982 of what we were able to show about these nominee directors 1619 01:32:33,025 --> 01:32:35,245 that really weren't contacts. 1620 01:32:35,288 --> 01:32:38,074 And the UK government is now supporting efforts to force 1621 01:32:38,117 --> 01:32:41,599 transparency in overseas tax havens that do that by 1622 01:32:41,643 --> 01:32:44,559 introducing public registries across the 1623 01:32:44,602 --> 01:32:45,602 commonwealth countries. 1624 01:32:54,090 --> 01:32:56,005 Panama Papers hasn't ended yet. 1625 01:32:56,048 --> 01:32:57,441 It's still going. 1626 01:32:57,484 --> 01:33:01,619 Every week, there's a new Panama Papers development. 1627 01:33:01,663 --> 01:33:04,796 Reporters are still in the database and are still searching 1628 01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:08,844 and still finding things that we missed. 1629 01:33:11,281 --> 01:33:14,066 While there have been a lot of investigations launched, 1630 01:33:14,110 --> 01:33:18,505 including in the U.S., and there have been a number of people all 1631 01:33:18,549 --> 01:33:21,030 across the world who have been arrested, 1632 01:33:21,073 --> 01:33:25,774 there has been an element of inaction in areas that really 1633 01:33:25,817 --> 01:33:29,952 matter, reform that would prevent these offshores from 1634 01:33:29,995 --> 01:33:32,955 being created in the way they are created. 1635 01:33:32,998 --> 01:33:34,391 There was a lot of talk about it, 1636 01:33:34,434 --> 01:33:38,961 but yet, that hasn't happened in a significant way. 1637 01:33:41,267 --> 01:33:42,810 I think history has shown that as important as 1638 01:33:42,834 --> 01:33:46,316 Panama Papers are in revealing this kind of underbelly of 1639 01:33:46,359 --> 01:33:50,015 global finance and how it ties into the whole inequality 1640 01:33:50,059 --> 01:33:53,192 question, I think it also will probably lead to a 1641 01:33:53,236 --> 01:33:54,280 better mousetrap. 1642 01:33:54,324 --> 01:33:55,281 Will the scams go on? 1643 01:33:55,325 --> 01:33:56,631 Will there be new ways found? 1644 01:33:56,674 --> 01:33:58,328 Yes, of course. 1645 01:33:58,371 --> 01:34:00,523 You know, they, it-it, you know, the world will probably just get 1646 01:34:00,547 --> 01:34:02,114 a bit more sophisticated. 1647 01:34:02,158 --> 01:34:04,769 There's a democratic backsliding in the world in 1648 01:34:04,813 --> 01:34:09,078 general, and I think that this is taking journalism down 1649 01:34:09,121 --> 01:34:10,383 with it. 1650 01:34:10,427 --> 01:34:13,604 It's kind of strange that, at that same time, 1651 01:34:13,648 --> 01:34:17,129 it's a golden age for investigative journalism. 1652 01:34:17,173 --> 01:34:20,698 Our work has never been as important as it is now. 1653 01:34:44,330 --> 01:34:46,210 But when it takes a whistleblower to sound 1654 01:34:46,245 --> 01:34:49,596 the alarm, it is cause for even greater concern. 1655 01:34:53,078 --> 01:34:54,882 It signals that democracy's checks and balance have all 1656 01:34:54,906 --> 01:34:59,084 failed, that the breakdown is systemic, 1657 01:34:59,128 --> 01:35:02,697 and that severe instability could be just around the corner. 1658 01:35:06,048 --> 01:35:08,615 So now is the time for real action. 137002

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