Original subtitles

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(faucet runs)

(soft music)

(birdsong)

MARÍA. MADRID, SPAIN

(children playing)

(unintelligible prayer)

JUAN. HARO, SPAIN

CELIA. ARANJUEZ, SPAIN

(cheering)

(crowd partying)

MEDHA. ALBANY, UNITED STATES

LUCÍA. URUBAMBA, PERU

DORA. BURGUILLOS, SPAIN

(intelligible singing)

VÍCTOR. BARCELONA, SPAIN

THE POPE ANSWERS

VATICAN CITY

(bells toll)

(elevator rumbles)

(elevator dings)

FRANCISCO: Good morning. How are you?

-Bene? -BRUNO: Bene.

-FRANCISCO: Bene, ancora vivo. -BRUNO: Bene.

Good morning, Your Holiness. How are you? Good? (chuckles)

How are you today?

(clinks)

(slurps)

Bruno, won't you have a cup of coffee?

-I already have. Thanks. -Ah.

These cookies are really good. You should try one.

Coffee is very good here.

ROME, ITALY

(people talking in the street)

My watch is still in Colombian time. Right now, it's 6 am back at home.

(unintelligible)

-ALEJANDRA: Good morning. -MARÍA: Hi.

-ALEJANDRA: How is everybody? -Hey.

-MILAGROS: Hi. -MARÍA: Hi.

Hi.

-MARÍA: How is everybody doing? (giggles) -CELIA: How are you doing?

VÍCTOR: Hi.

-MARÍA: Let's talk. -Here we are.

Is it the first time you guys are in Rome?

-MILAGROS: Yes, it's the first time. -ALL: Yeah.

-Me too. First time. -JUAN: Everyone, then?

MILAGROS: It was my first time flying.

-MARÍA: For real? -CELIA: Really? How did you feel?

I wasn't nervous or anything. I enjoyed all of it, seeing the clouds…

I enjoyed it so much! (group laughs)

Are you guys nervous? How are you? What do you feel?

MEDHA: It's the weirdest thing I've ever done in my life.

(laughter)

But I'm ready, I'm excited. And I have a million questions for him.

MARÍA: Yeah.

MARÍA: Maybe the pope can answer so many of our questions

and help us understand why the Church does what it does.

MEDHA: Do you believe?

-ALEJANDRO: I do. -MILAGROS: I do.

-I do. -I don't.

MEDHA: I don't either.

-I'm a Muslim. -MARÍA: Okay.

I think that's valuable, the fact that you don't believe in God,

but you can still talk to that person. I think that's cool.

I fell short. They are 60.

It seems you forgot the picture with… Thanks.

I'm having a chat with Pope Francis.

But it's not just a chat like you'd have with any other person.

There's a whole symbolism around him, and what he means… It's a heavy weight.

VÍCTOR: He's the boss of all the bosses. I mean, he's the tip of the top.

-(laughs) Yeah, yeah. -MARÍA (in English): The big boss.

(in English) The big boss, that's right!

I also feel a great responsibility.

Like, my questions can help other people.

It's a heavy weight on my shoulders.

KHADIM: There must be so much protocol before he steps in. I mean…

JUAN: I am of two minds about… I think it could be more intimate

because this pope is more…

-Of a liberal. -Yeah. But, on the other hand, cassocks…

(laughter)

CELIA: Actually, this pope is more laid-back.

There's not so much pomp about him. All this protocol… He's not into it.

FRANCISCO: Bruno, we should take this. It's for the soldiers, on our way back.

BRUNO: Okay, sure.

FRANCISCO: Yeah, but I'd like one more here.

-He got pretty stingy. Help me get one. -Yes.

(mumurs)

(unintelligible chatter)

ALEJANDRA: I'm not the only one who's nervous. We're all nervous.

-Will there be selfie time with the pope? -ALEJANDRA: Yes, there should be.

-ALEJANDRA: At the end.. -MARÍA: Yeah.

(liturgical music)

-FRANCISCO: Is it far away? -DRIVER (in Italian): About 20 minutes.

-FRANCISCO (in Italian): 20 minutes? -Yes.

Dirty. It's a very dirty city.

But it's unique. Rome is unique.

(sirens)

I can cheer you up if you want. I stand up there and… (laughs)

When the pope comes, tell him you're a rapper

-and free-style for him. -WOMAN: Yeah, man.

(liturgical music)

DRIVER (in Italian): We will arrive in two minutes, Holy Father.

(in Italian) Good. You've done well.

-DRIVER (in Italian): Thanks. -(in Italian) Top marks.

(murmurs, laughter)

-VÍCTOR: They're coming. -Close? (chuckles) How close?

(liturgical music)

FRANCISCO: They've mobilized all the police.

A luxury elevator! (chuckles) Modern!

(clears throat) Oh, no!

MARÍA: Hello.

FRANCISCO: Buongiorno.

(in Italian) You're all so quiet! (group laughs)

Did someone die?

-MARÍA: Hello. -CELIA: How are you?

MILAGROS: Welcome. We were waiting for you.

(group laughs) CELIA: Yeah!

-Welcome. How are you doing? -VÍCTOR: Fine.

TEENS: Very well.

FRANCISCO: You guys are not 50. (group laughs)

You're not dead. I'm here to talk with teenagers.

-MILAGRO: How are you? -Hello.

-CELIA: How are you? -MILAGROS: May I kiss you once or twice?

Sure.

I'd have to charge more for two. (group laughs)

-I'm shaking hands. -Hello.

That's how we say hello in my country. I'm from Senegal.

-Like this? -Like this.

-Hello. -Hello.

-Hello. -Nice to meet you.

-Hello. How are you? -Hello.

-Hello. -MARÍA: It's my pleasure.

-(in Italian) Hello. How are you? Fine? -(in Italian) Not bad.

(group chuckles)

-LUCÍA: Very nice to meet you. -MEDHA: Nice to meet you, sir.

(Medha laughs)

-How are you? -ALEJANDRA: Nice to meet you, sir.

Hello.

-ALEJANDRA: Over there. -These kids are too disciplined.

(group laughs)

-Yeah, we are. -We're all nervous.

ALL: Yeah.

I don't believe you guys! I should get ready for you.

(group laughs)

-We were so anxious to meet you. -And that anxiety spent all your energy.

-Yeah, exactly! -I should go, then.

-MEDHA: No! -ALEJANDRA: No, we were just talking.

MARÍA: Yeah.

(in Italian) There.

(group chuckles) MARÍA: Good.

-How's your knee? What's wrong with it? -It's bothersome.

(room laughs)

But… I've been able to walk for three days now.

How was your trip here?

FRANCISCO: Fine. I was seeing how beautiful Rome is.

-Yeah, it's beautiful. -So, you came here to talk with the pope.

(group laughs) CELIA: Yes.

Isn't that boring, talking with a priest? Isn't it?

-No. -No.

Actually, it's rather interesting.

Okay, let's kick off. (group laughs)

-How do we start? Who's starting? -Who's the cheekiest one?

Okay, I will. (group laughs)

I wanted to ask a personal question. Are you on a roll?

What roll?

ALEJANDRA: A payroll. Usually, you get paid for being on a company.

-Paid for what? -KHADIM: Like a salary.

Oh. No, I don't get paid. When I need money for shoes or something, I borrow it.

I don't get a salary. But I don't worry about it because I can eat for free.

So, you get everything for free?

Yeah. I do where I live. When I have… higher expenses,

I try not to burden the Holy See with it and ask around for help.

But, in general, my lifestyle is rather humble.

It's like that of a middle, middle-low worker.

When I realize a social organization needs help…

For instance, the other day I heard they needed a school in Papua New Guinea.

This person told me they weren't sure whether they should ask for some money.

I said, "Of course you should. Everybody steals money here.

So I know where I can steal some and I'll send it your way."

What do I mean by that?

When I see somebody needs help, I ask the person in charge for some money.

I've been meaning to ask whether you have a cell phone.

-A cell phone, a mobile phone. -No.

-What about social media? -No.

You're on Twitter.

I do, but it's the secretaries who handle that.

-ALEJANDRA: Ah. -FRANCISCO: No, I don't have a cell phone.

I was given one when I was ordained as a bishop, 30 years ago.

It was like a shoe, it was this big. (group laughs)

I thought I'd never use it, but they insisted I should make a call.

So I called my sister and gave it back.

I'm a bit anachronistic about that.

However, I do understand everybody does have a cell phone.

I can honestly say

that I mean to continuously communicate with everything.

And this meeting is a way to stay in communication.

-Do you miss your family? -For sure, how couldn't I! (chuckles)

MEDHA (laughs): Yeah.

FRANCISCO: Sometimes, on Sundays I think they'll be having lunch together,

eating pasta or having a barbecue. But what can you do?

Yeah.

Actually, the five of us were very close and…

Three have already left, so there's just two of us.

Excuse me. Is it okay if I address you more informally?

-Sure. -It's fine? Okay.

I think the Church aims to seek good,

promote self-development, and so on…

But, from what I see around me,

I get the feeling that people are disappointed in Church, not in God.

I'm an atheist or an agnostic, but I totally respect believers.

Actually, my family believes. They used to believe.

Where I live, people don't go to church anymore.

I think it's anachronistic, old-fashioned,

so I wanted to ask what your point of view is.

From where you stand, what's your vision on this subject?

Yes, it is true that, mostly in large cities,

there's a certain abandonment or distancing.

And that somehow jeopardizes credibility before people.

You're credible when you get involved along with your testimony.

For instance, they murdered a nun a few days ago in Haiti.

She had been in Haiti for 20 years.

She would organize and take care of children who lived in the streets.

Everybody thought that nun was credible,

because she would put herself in harm's way in doing that.

When there is no testimony, the Church gets rusty.

It gets rusty because it becomes a club of nice people

who do their religious duties but lack the courage to get out to the suburbs.

And I think this is key. When you look at reality from the center,

you put up walls even without noticing. One, two, three.

They distance you from reality and you lose grasp on it.

If you want to see reality, go to the suburbs.

To find out what social injustice is, go to the suburbs.

When I say "suburbs,"

I don't just mean poverty. I also mean cultural or even existential peripheries.

Why do you think that happens?

Why do you think some people climb the ladder within the Church?

That's a human phenomenon. We all… (laughs)

We all like to be comfortable.

So, when a priest forgets he is the shepherd of a flock

and becomes a State clergyman…

I'd like to underline this.

-I'm just sharing, this isn't advice. -Yeah, sure.

Anyone of us can change a structure if what we want is just.

The great revolutionaries of history changed structures.

(people talking)

KHADIM: How can I help? With anything.

-What do you think is best for me to do? -Probably, with the bricks.

-WOMAN: Khadim, what are you doing? -KHADIM: I'm making it thicker.

MEDHA (in English): Alright, so I wanna put all these photos on this string.

GIRL (in English): Do you have any photos of India, the trip you did to India?

MEDHA (in English): I do, I have a lot. I'm gonna show you them.

I brought all my graduation stuff to India.

My parents made me dress up and take photos with my grandparents.

Awww.

MEDHA: That was really special. But it's also like a huge deal for them,

because for women to get educated is like a really big deal.

(in Spanish) My parents are immigrants, just like yours.

I'm from Boston, but my parents are from India.

They traveled half the world

so I could have the opportunities I had.

Go to university, get the chance to go to Med school,

get rights as a woman…

I had all of that just because my parents migrated.

Since I am the child of immigrants, I've also experienced racism.

And I would like to know whether you've experienced it too.

I can't say I have. I haven't suffered racism. It was actually the opposite.

In Argentina, immigrants were welcome because they were needed.

The population of Argentina is about 46 million right now.

Of which, no more than 600,000 are aborigines.

So, a vast majority of the population are migrants. It's amazing.

A mix of cultures that has been good for us. Did you want to talk? Yeah.

I come from Senegal. I'm from Senegal.

My brother traveled to Spain on an immigrant boat when he was 14.

So, a 14-year-old boy spent eight days

traveling at sea on an immigrant boat

without knowing what to expect there.

He hoped to get there and have a good life.

But, actually, the real journey begins once you've landed.

That's really when the trouble starts.

When you feel different, when you get stopped by the police on the street,

when you sleep on the street,

when you feel lost because they say you're different.

And I think it's very sad that the passport determines your future.

The problem of migrations should be addressed seriously.

Migrants should be welcomed, accompanied,

promoted, and integrated.

These men and women are exploited

to then embark themselves on a migrant boat

with no guarantee of making it. They are exploited, tortured,

they take all their money,

and then they are told to they travel on a certain night.

When they make it to the beach, they see the boat.

If they don't want to get on it, they get shot on site.

This is happening as we speak on the outskirts of Europe.

And some authorities are sometimes complicit and the migrants get sent back.

There are countries in Europe that I won't mention

so I don't cause a diplomatic problem.

But they have little towns or villages that are almost empty.

Towns with just 20 elder people who remain there. Uncultivated fields…

These countries that are going through demographic winter.

Countries with an average age of 46, they don't welcome migrants either.

So, they grow old.

Don't you think that's egotistical?

"I welcome when I want to, when I need them."

That's exploitation. Behind that, there's a mind to exploit others.

"I use you. I don't welcome you as a sibling. I use you," right?

That's an exploitative mind frame. Behind that lies the shadow of slavery.

The migrant is seen as a slave.

Colonialism is behind an immature migration policy.

It's a non-integration policy. There's some tolerance.

But, as long as countries don't reach integration,

the migration issue won't be solved properly.

I also think that, in the USA and pretty much everywhere else,

the migration issue and racism go hand-in-hand.

Because most of white immigrants in the USA,

have lots of rights. They live well.

But most of non-white immigrants

don't have the same rights.

I say this very respectfully.

It's as if there were first-class and second-class immigrants.

If you come from Ukraine from that big tragedy,

you are more welcome and fondly welcome, which is fine.

However, if you come from Africa,

you get rejected, or they try to find a way to send you back.

The migration issue hasn't been resolved, and that's serious.

LUCÍA: You mentioned the issue of colonization.

The Church is an institution that had a central role in colonization.

In Latin America, at least. We've talked about racism,

and we have a Church that depicts Jesus and Mary as white people,

which they obviously weren't. Isn't it contradictory?

Look, what I think is a contradiction is not to own up to your own history.

The Church has been through the stages you mention.

But each one of us belong to a society, a country, and a culture that has a past.

And owning up to one's past is hard sometimes.

Owning up to one's past is sometimes embarrassing.

Coherence is especially hard for Christians. Even at The Vatican.

Even there. I see spiritual worldliness every now and then at The Vatican.

I've asked the Lord to clean it slowly, but there are leaks everywhere.

Everywhere.

A reform of the Church should happen from the inside out,

and the Church should always be reformed, always. As cultures change, so do demands.

Take slavery, for instance. The Church didn't say anything about it

because cultures were like that back then.

Nobody talks about slavery nowadays the way they did it then.

But the Church isn't oblivious and knows. When I say "the Church" I mean Christians.

They know there's just as much slavery as back then, except it's different.

Take a woman queuing up to get a job.

They say, "Yes, ma'am. This one suits you.

It's an 11-hour job for 600 € a month."

"But I can't live with this."

"That's your problem. Look at the queue behind you."

That's modern slavery, it's the market slavery.

Or take a woman, who has to be careful not to get pregnant

because they'd kick her out of her job as soon as they find out she is.

That's another type of slavery. They're taking away your right of being a mother.

Nowadays, there are modern types of slavery that we church people,

Christians, should denounce.

DORA: I'm from Ecuador. I was born there.

When I was three, we moved to Seville, Spain.

So I had to go through the whole bullying and racism thing.

Excuse me.

(sniffling)

-This is a very sensitive subject for me. -It is, yeah. Feel free, feel free.

Thanks.

So… putting up with all that,

made me experience depression.

It also made me have a terrible relationship with my body,

which ended up in a case of bulimia.

I even had suicidal thoughts.

My whole faith collapsed.

So, right now I'm looking for happiness and I'd like to delete my past.

The Evangelical Church has helped me a great deal,

but I'm also seeing a therapist.

So, I would like to ask whether you are happy and if you've ever felt lonely.

I think we have all felt lonely some time. I certainly have.

When you feel lonely, you get the most outlandish ideas to stop feeling it.

Loneliness is like the winter of a life.

When the weather is cloudy, so to speak,

you don't change course. Never. "Oh, I'm wrong. I'm not okay."

You stop, wait for the winter to be over,

and then think whether or not you should change.

Dialogue helps a great deal.

Having loving, caring people around us. Sometimes, it can be your parents.

Sometimes, it can be your pastor. Sometimes, it can be a friend.

Confidants are good at such times. But, as for my own experience,

even the darkest times I had to go through, eventually were for the better.

And I did go through awful things in life.

(thunder)

However, when life gives you the opportunity,

and God gives you the Grace to own up to them and embrace them,

those experiences bear good fruit.

It looks like a storm is coming. Look at that.

MARÍA: What's going on? (laughter)

Sometimes life feels like that too. Everything seems calm,

then comes a storm, and you're left wondering what hit you.

(thunder rolling and rain falling)

-FRANCISCO: How old are you? -What?

-FRANCISCO: How old are you? -I'm 22.

-FRANCISCO: Oh, you're young. -I'm 22.

-What do you study? -Professional makeup.

-I'm gonna call you to make me handsomer. -Anytime.

(somber guitar playing throughout)

(motorbike rumbling by)

(dogs barking in the background)

I think there are more people who want to talk.

They wanted to. They had their hand up.

MILAGROS: I'm from Santiago del Estero, from a labor-class neighborhood.

I consider myself to be a Catholic. I take part in chapel activities.

Besides that, I'm a feminist.

I'm part of an organization called "Catholic Women for a Right to Decide."

Back in 2019, when I was teaching the catechism,

the abortion debate was taking place. There was something that didn't add up:

why did the Church want to stand between a woman and her rights? No?

I think Jesus would walk with that woman.

He wouldn't judge her like they would during mass at a church.

I know people who have been through abortions.

Instead of teaching the Gospels,

they point at them and call them murderers and are horrible to them.

But they go to church to find God's love. They want to listen to the Word.

I would like to give something to you.

To be able to have this,

and carry it in my backpack has been…

Excuse me.

It's been a very hard experience.

And now I'm so proud to keep it with me.

I just wanted to give it to you lovingly and respectfully.

Thank you.

MILAGROS: Thank you.

MILAGROS: Thank you.

FRANCISCO: You emphasized understanding

towards the woman who gets an abortion.

In regard to that, I always tell priests that,

when a person in such a situation comes to them, with a guilty conscience….

Because abortion leaves such a deep mark in a woman…

I advise them no to ask questions ant to be be merciful, such as Jesus was.

Jesus welcomes all.

No matter how much of a sinner you are, or if everybody leaves you behind,

the Lord will never leave you alone.

But the problem of abortion should be addressed scientifically

and with certain coldness.

Any embryology book shows us that a month after the conception,

the DNA is aligned and all the organs are "drawn."

It is therefore not just a bunch of cells put together,

but a systematized human life.

So, the question that should be submitted when talking about the morality of this…

Is it valid to eliminate a human life to solve a problem?

You'd go to a doctor.

So, is it valid pay a hitman

to eliminate a human life to solve a problem?

Of course there are affective situations that make everything harder

and can make almost impossible in psychological terms

to carry out a pregnancy. I understand all of that.

MILAGROS: Yes, but there are realities. Abortion exists.

I don't think women make that decision lightly.

"Sure, I'm having an abortion.

It's fine. Problem solved." No, they do it consciously.

She is in a dialogue with God. What do we do with these women? I mean the Church,

as an institution. What do we do? Should we put them aside, point at them and say,

-"No, you're murderers"? -No, no.

MILAGROS: Or should we stay with them and help them decide?

Should we stay with them, support them?

Regardless of the decision they make, whether or not it's an abortion. No?

MARÍA: I wanted to say I live the same things, but from the other side.

On Saturdays, I go to abortion clinics, stay at the door,

and talk to the girls who are going in.

I ask them what they need or why they have made that decision.

Many times, they do it out of fear

that their parents will kick them out of their homes.

"I won't be able to study anymore. I have no money. I'm afraid.

I have too many children and I can't have any more."

If you can find a solution for the problem that made them get there,

they don't have the abortion. I've seen it myself many times.

Not as many as I may have liked.

And I have never heard of any woman

who regretted giving that life an opportunity.

For Christians, life is a gift. And, for atheists,

if you don't believe in eternal life, how can you take that child's only life?

It's not that I encourage every girl to go to an abortion clinic

just because I'm wearing this, no! Please!

Just like you, I take part in church activities.

It's just, I am with that woman, regardless of what she chooses.

MARÍA: You are surrounded by women who have had abortions.

Don't you see the suffering abortion causes?

DORA: I'm an Evangelical Christian, but I liked a great deal what María said.

The fact that she goes there and talks, but there's no obligation.

It's like the pastor… Excuse me, not the pastor…

Pope Francis said we should welcome people.

And it doesn't matter what awful things you have done,

the Lord will always welcome you with open arms.

It doesn't mean you don't feel guilty. You just chose an abortion.

DORA: You're free to choose what you want to do. You're free. It's fine, you know?

But how can you be free if someone comes along and judges you about your decisions?

I've never judged anyone.

ALEJANDRA: I'm going to give my opinion. I'm a mom and, uh, to be honest,

what María says shocks me. At some point, I thought about it,

but they're not situations… I mean, when you choose an abortion,

it's your last resort, your last choice.

And it's not just feeding a child, and putting a roof on their head.

There are people who are not ready to raise another person.

Their environment, their life…

It always ends up with children who are not wanted.

I suffered a great deal during my pregnancy

because my daughter's father left me.

At the time, my father also turned his back on me.

So it's not just about having somebody else inside your womb, you feel terrible.

Society and people around you desert you. Everything you've ever known collapses.

Plus, you've got a responsibility now.

So, the things you say won't stop happening, but many women die trying.

MARÍA: As for that feminist tide…

couldn't it focus on trying to get the resources so the mothers could go on?

For sure.

-Mostly the women who do want to. -Yes.

Instead of making abortions safe, legal, and for free,

we could focus on helping those who do want to be mothers.

LUCÍA: I think abortion is also a public health issue.

It takes a heavy toll on mothers' lives, so…um,

I don't consider myself an abortionist, I don't want abortions no matter what.

But I'm in favor of not punishing something that happens.

that has happened for a long time and will keep on happening.

And, even though it is penalized,

the women with access to this will be the privileged ones.

High-class women, well-off.

And who suffers the worst consequences?

The women from the peripheries.

Women who will use a clothes hanger or a knitting needle,

who will introduce it into their vagina to abort. And they will probably die.

On the other hand,

it's strange there's this debate from a guilt standpoint towards women.

If there's a person who will make a decision to abort a pregnancy,

they should be accompanied. There was even a comparison with hitmen.

Women who have abortions done were compared to people who hire hitmen.

-And I think that's a bit simplistic. -MILAGROS: Yeah.

FRANCISCO: It's interesting how sensitive you are. And I thank you for it.

You realize this isn't a math problem, but a human problem.

The strongest parts of your arguments are based on that sensitivity.

I'm not being patronizing, mind you. I don't mean sentimentality.

Feeling a human problem. That's what I mean.

A woman who has an abortion cannot be left alone, we should stay with her.

She's made that decision. She had an abortion.

We shouldn't send her to hell all of a sudden or isolate her, no.

We should stay by her side. But we should call a spade a spade.

Staying by her side is one thing, but justifying the act is something else.

JUAN: I would like to consider, um,

this from the standpoint of the Church as an institution.

Not to generalize, of course, but there is much hypocrisy

regarding issues such as this one.

It's usually said that lives should be protected, there's a right to live,

it's a sin… But then, when it comes to other aspects…

For instance, what about pederasty within the Church?

Many people from within the Church reject the victims

or stand on the perpetrator's side.

Life takes the back seat. I'm Juan Cuatrecasas.

I attended, um, an Opus Dei school in Bilbao.

Um, during the 2008-2009 school year,

when I was between 11 and 12,

I was sexually abused by a numerary member.

And well…

Excuse me.

FRANCISCO: It's fine, don't worry.

Express yourself however you want. Cry if you want to.

Don't worry, son.

Anyway… Justice sentenced this man.

Well… First, the Provincial Court sentenced him to eleven years.

But, because of certain reasons I won't go into,

but I think they're questionable… the sentence was shortened to two.

Due to this, this man did not go to prison.

And he didn't…

JUAN: He was still allowed to teach where he was.

So… May I give you something, a letter?

This letter…

(Juan stutters)

This is a reply to my father.

Because my father, at a certain point…

Back in 2014, my father decided to write to you personally

to request your support.

Maybe you don't remember the letter. I can show it to you.

FRANCISCO: Yes

JUAN: This is your reply.

Did you get a reply from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith?

JUAN: Yes.

I sent it there to rule on this.

JUAN: After we…

FRANCISCO: Thanks.

JUAN: …received the letter, the next year,

the school where this took place

the school of Opus Dei received another letter

from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

stating that the investigation would be archived and that the teacher's

good name should be re-instated.

JUAN: So, I think my question is obvious.

Why did they make that decision?

And now that there's a final judgment

and the facts are out,

will the Church as an institution change its position,

or will it rectify the words conveyed by the Congregation

at some point?

FRANCISCO: These cases of abuse of minors don't prescribe.

In Church, at least. If they do,

I overrule the prescription automatically.

I don't want this to prescribe, ever.

FRANCISCO: The issue of abuse of minors is serious.

Not just in the Church, but everywhere.

In the case of the Church is even more scandalous because you destruct

people in the very place where you should protect them.

There are men and women who destroy. The abuser destroys a child.

And if it's a church person, the hypocrisy and double-life are horrific.

FRANCISCO: I thank your for reporting him because it takes courage

to report this. It's not easy.

Social conditioning is very strong.

And sometimes the person who reports it ends up being accused of slander.

That happens sometimes.

FRANCISCO: It pains me that the sentence was mild.

On the one hand, it seems consistent, but then it doesn't.

But now that there's a final judgment,

I would like to have the case reviewed.

You can count on that.

You must be aware that there are many priests and bishops below you

who are bad people.

And there's no debate possible. They are bad people.

FRANCISCO: It is possible that there are people who aren't good.

Which is why my policy is to clean.

If somebody is doing something wrong, there should be a report, so we can clean.

There is zero tolerance. That's the policy of the Church.

For instance, when there's abuse within the family, they are usually kept hidden.

It's between a 42 and a 50 percent.

Hiding it is still a habit.

The Church had always been tempted to do that

until it realized that shouldn't be done.

I can't possibly convey the empathy I feel for a person who has been abused,

but it pains me deeply.

Have you ever spoken with a priest, bishop, or whatever,

who's been sentenced or who you know has abused someone?

I have.

What's your opinion, or what do you get from it?

I've found a bit of everything. From the person who denies everything,

even the evidence… They are totally closed.

I've also seen the repented ones, those who

carry their guilt for what they've done.

I have talked to some, yes. Even to serve a sentence sometimes.

VÍCTOR: I don't think that's a solution, the fact that you now say

you're bring that case back.

That's not democratic, that's not fair. This is not justice.

I mean, he had to come here so you would say that the issue would be solved.

What happens with all the people who couldn't come here?

This doesn't begin today. This work began years ago.

We've been clear about this, we've disciplined the seminaries,

we've punished the abusing priests, or even the abusing laypeople.

FRANCISCO: We are working hard. It's in process. This doesn't begin today

just because you guys are here.

But the abuse culture remains.

But the abuse culture is unfortunately everywhere. The Church is trying

to prevent its priests and nuns from abusing. Nowadays, I believe we are

an example of struggle against abuse, our work in each diocese, at The Vatican.

There are priests in prison everywhere.

LUCÍA: I don't think enough is being done, considering the people who have survived

this have to wait for years for some type of reply, and alone!

If I'm a priest who has abused somebody, I have a whole institution behind me.

But if I'm a person who's been abused, I have to stand before justice all alone.

LUCÍA: So, how can you say enough is being done, or even something worth it?

You're re-enforcing something that's been proven to be useless.

When you raise awareness

that the hierarchy of the Church is of this mind,

the person who's been abused is not all alone anymore.

Because you're raising awareness that we are with you, we're calling you.

Now, when groups within the church are corrupt,

such as the ones that tortured this boy, it is harder to feel

supported by the Church, because they've abused and tortured and so on.

But we should regard the Church on its good path.

FRANCISCO: I'm not saying everything we're doing will solve the problem

because it's a human issue, an issue of human degeneration.

It's a serious social problem. The Church should take a step forward and say,

"This is what happened in my house, and I've made such and such decisions.

This is our path."

It may not be the best path, and there could be others,

but we're beginning to raise social awareness. That is key.

(birds chirp)

-WOMAN #3: Now? -CELIA: No.

-WOMAN #3: Are you sure? -CELIA: No.

-WOMAN #3: Now? -CELIA: Yeah.

CELIA: No way.

-Comb your hair. -Right.

That's what I get for taking a shower at night.

Do you know what a non-binary person is?

FRANCISCO: I do.

CELIA: You do? I'm glad.

Well, in case somebody doesn't know… A non-binary person is

someone who isn't neither a man nor a woman, or not totally, at least.

And not all the time. There are people who flow. I'm Celia, I'm non-binary.

And I'm a Christian too.

Sometimes, it's very challenging for me to live both things at once.

And I've been meaning to ask you if you see some space inside the Church

for trans people, non-binary people, or LGBT people in general.

Every person is a child of God, everyone.

God doesn't reject anyone, God is a father.

And I don't have the right to kick anybody out of the Church.

My duty is to always welcome.

The Church cannot close its doors on anybody. Anybody.

What's your opinion on church people, or priests, who promote hate

and use the Bible to support hate speech?

They read the Gospels, like, "I'm not excluding you, it's the Bible."

I'm tired of saying that wasn't Jesus' message.

Those people are infiltrators.

They are infiltrators who use the Church for their personal passions,

for their personal narrowness.

It's one of the corruptions within the Church.

Those narrow-minded ideologies…

Deep within, those people are living severe inconsistencies.

They judge on others because they can't atone for their own faults.

In general, people who judge are inconsistent.

There's something within them. They feel liberated by judging others,

when they should look inside at their own guilt. But the day the Church

loses its universality… the blind, the deaf, the good, the bad…

Everybody, it will stop being a Church. Everybody has a place.

I have a similar question.

I consider myself to be a feminist within my church, in which I take part.

Do you think I'd be a better Christian if I weren't a feminist?

Feminist has its roots in an adjective, and I care mostly about nouns.

We have fallen into an adjective culture. We make everything relative

through adjectives and pile them up. Adjectives are not baptized,

nouns are, people are. And I believe in people.

What do you think, or could you picture a woman in your position?

I mean, even though we women take part in church activities and support it,

what is keeping a woman from being in your position?

Supposing you can picture it, that is.

FRANCISCO: Therein lies a theological problem.

There are two constituting streams within the Church. Two principles.

So, the ministry is for men.

On the maternal side, which is far more important, are women.

The promotion of women is aligned with their own vocation as women,

not with a ministerial machismo.

FRANCISCO: Otherwise, women would be diminished.

Women have a function within the Church because the Church itself is female.

In languages with grammatical genders, it is usually female.

The Church is a wife, Christ's wife. It is not his husband.

Christ is the husband. That is our faith.

Women should be promoted. At The Vatican, the Vice-Governor is a woman.

-MILAGROS: It is. -Economics are handled by women.

So, a woman couldn't be a priest either?

No, because that's the ministry line.

Behind your desire to promote, you're showing… Don't get mad.

I won't.

FRANCISCO: You're showing you adhere to machismo,

because the fact that a woman can't be a priest troubles you. Do you see it?

MILAGROS: Yeah, because we're occupying every other position.

We're teaching catechism…

FRANCISCO: You're troubled by something that couldn't happen in dogmatic terms.

And women would be deprived of their greatest asset. The Church…

No, I don't mean to deprive women and to get them out of their roles,

but to allow them to take up any role, just like men.

FRANCISCO: There would be no originality. This is a serious dogmatic matter.

that does not diminish women. On the contrary, it emphasizes them

where they should be. Being a priest is not better than not being it.

I respect there are other ideas. It's fine, but it's not the true idea.

-It's not the faith of the Church. -MALAGROS: …of the Church.

And it's not diminishing, mind you.

Being a woman within the Church is very important.

CELÍA: Do you know what Tinder is? Tinder

I don't, my dear.

FRANCISCO: I'm embarrassed. I feel old-fashioned.

It's an app, a cell phone app to meet new people

and maybe be in a relationship.

It is mostly about sex, but in some cases it's useful to meet people.

Actually, that's how I met my partner. I uploaded some pictures

and said what I was like and what I liked. Then, she and I connected,

and that's how we met.

No, I obviously don't…

(all laughing)

FRANCISCO: My phone… Not like this, this is how you dial now. A normal phone.

MEDHA: Have you never wanted to be in a relationship?

-FRANCISCO: Never what? -CELIA: A relationship.

Oh, I was in a relationship before I entered the seminary.

MEDHA: Were you?

FRANCISCO: But then I chose celibacy.

KHADIM: What do you think about what she said, about Tinder?

I don't know. It's fine that people meet each other. It's normal.

What do you think about that aspect of young people's lives?

It's funny. Young people have eagerness to meet and that's a good thing.

One of the things I admire about young people is the absence

of borders, and I mean it in a good way.

You have family borders, country borders, maybe religious borders.

But, as humans, you go further. One of the great assets

of young people is what I call the "Christopher Columbus complex."

You want to discover, you want to go further, you want to take risks.

And that is good for you, because it also teaches you

that ideological mind frames are relative,

whether they come from a society, a political party, or a church.

-My turn. My turn. -Sure.

Okay. I'm Alejandra. I create content for adults, sexual stuff, pornography.

I do it on streaming sites, so it's live. I have my computer and all my things,

and I go online. I have another website, which is like a social network,

where I upload the videos, I sell them, and it all works through social media.

Were you aware of all that?

I think that's a good aspect of the development of communications.

The systems of communication should save communication itself,

it should keep it from disappearing.

When you communicate through social media, it should be a one-on-one.

There's a relationship. Mostly when it is used for work,

but also for communication. However, there should be a distinction

between the richness of social media and the morality of what you do,

depending on what morality is for you.

For instance, if you sell drugs through these channels,

you're intoxicating young people, you're harming, you're promoting crime.

If you use those channels to make criminal connections to create social situations,

it's immoral. The morality of social media depends on what you use them for.

Um. I usually have a certain number of members.

They ask for very specific things, not always of a sexual nature.

Sometimes, it is very sexual.

Maybe lingerie or very specific things, like customized videos,

but I set the boundaries regarding what I do and what I don't.

If I don't like what they're asking for, I simply don't do it.

MEDHA: I like the fact that you can decide what your limits are.

Pornography is very harmful because, in the end, it treats people as objects.

A person is ordering you around, "Do this, do that,"

like you're an object.

I'm not sure you're aware of how that harms you.

Besides, it also harms the person consuming that.

I'm speaking in sexual terms here. It's harming them.

This is cold science. During sexual intercourse,

you secrete some hormones

that create a bond with that person. So, if you're having sex

with a person you don't know through a screen,

you're creating a bond with the screen or with yourself when you masturbate.

You're isolating yourself from the world around you to focus on a screen.

I'm a Christian, so I think my body is the temple of the Holy Ghost.

You're attacking your body.

I think pornography destroys the person,

I really do.

It's the only addiction that is treated

in the absence of consumption of any physical substance.

Obviously, pornography diminishes.

It doesn't help you grow.

Those who use pornography are diminished in human terms.

You mentioned drugs as an example. Drugs also diminish you.

And people addicted to pornography are left in

a state that doesn't allow them to grow.

I have a question. Is there violence where you work?

Um. Websites have very strict policies when it comes to that.

For instance, there are people who like to see blood.

But that isn't allowed. You get blocked if you do it. You get banned and

reported, and then you won't be able to open any more sites.

MILAGROS: Do you feel safe and comfortable?

Totally. When I turn on the camera, put on my make up,

put on my fake eyelashes and all that, I feel like a diva. Although I will say

Although I will say that the character took over me. I was so shy before that.

The idea of being here, talking to all of you, was out of the question.

I would have been terrified.

So, the fact that you can become a character, a public person…

All my social media are public…

That allowed me to take hold of my own body and personality.

-And I'm more confident about my beliefs. -MILAGROS: Yeah.

CELIA: Do you also see masturbation as something wrong?

MARÍA: I think it makes you turn inwards and isolates you from

-MARÍA: the people around you. -DORA: And real life, anyway.

MARÍA: Yes. Because you don't need another person to feel pleasure.

I think masturbation and pornography harm people terribly.

They slowly take you down a hole it's very hard to get out of.

Don't you know anybody who says masturbation is something cool,

something beneficial? You say you've seen people suffer due to pornography

and masturbation… Have you seen any good examples?

DORA: A good example?

-You enjoy pleasure and sexuality. -CELIA: Sexuality.

I think most people have masturbated during adolescence.

MARÍA: Okay…

FRANCISCO: At this point, I would like to mention a criterion

that will keep us from losing ourselves in some labyrinths.

Sex is one of the beautiful things God gave human beings.

To express oneself sexually is something rich.

Anything that diminishes a true sexual expression

diminishes you as well, it renders you partial, and it diminishes that richness.

Sex has a dynamic of its own. It exists for a reason. It's an expression of love.

That's probably the core of sexual activity.

So, anything that drags you away from that

or that pulls it in a different direction diminishes sexual activity.

Sometimes, while hearing confession, some people say, "I've done something nasty."

Sexual things. Instead of saying, "I handled sexuality poorly.

Instead of loving another I sought myself"

Catechism regarding sex is still at a very early stage.

I think we Christians haven't always had a mature catechism regarding sex

It's one of the beautiful things God has done.

I talk to you very clearly about this

because I don't feel guilty or poorly about my body.

I have a partner. Having sex with them is not the same as masturbating.

That's acknowledging my body, what I like.

If I don't know what I like, how I like to be touched or looked at,

how will I explain it to somebody else? Or should I simply assume they know?

So, to me, this job meant taking down some barriers

and actually get to know who Alejandra was,

and stop feeling guilt or fear. And I love what I do.

You said we're turned into objects. We've always been turned into objects,

except nowadays I make money for it. I think this is the best job I've had.

I'm amazingly free to be at home. I am there as a Mom.

From morning to the moment she goes to bed,

my daughter knows Mom is there. I'm very helpful at home.

I'm not an absent mother, which I was,

when I used to work from 8 am to 10 pm, and it was crazy during December

At some point, I spent a whole month without ever seeing her awake.

So, this job has meant a door to freedom for me.

And it's been one of the best jobs I've had

because I communicate with a lot of people and I can be myself.

(soft droning music)

(crickets)

ALEJANDRA: Let's go to sleep. Let's go to sleep, let's go to sleep.

Sleepy time, sweetie. I'm so proud. You did it!

-DAUGHTER: Yeah. -Yeah, you're finished.

The year is finally over. How do you feel? No more waking up early!

DAUGHTER: Yes, no more waking up early, no more role calling!

-Are you ready for your new school? -DAUGHTER: Yeah.

ALEJANDRA: Did you like what I showed you? Yeah?

DAUGHTER: I love you.

ALEJANDRA: Sleep tight, bug. I love you.

(bed creaking)

I'll turn off the lights.

(light switches off)

(soft droning music continues)

(wind sounds) (bird calls)

WOMAN FRIEND #1: Did you go to the party? How was it?

MARÍA: My aunt's? Fine. It was fun.

WOMAN FRIEND #1: Where was it?

MARÍA: At an estate that was… It didn't feel like Madrid.

It was the countryside.

WOMAN FRIEND #1: So, José was there?

-MARÍA: He was. -WOMAN FRIEND #2: Yeah? He was at the

-WOMAN FRIEND #2: birthday party? -WOMAN FRIEND #1: With the whole family?

-MARÍA: He's been there before. (laughs) WOMAN FRIEND #2: (laughs) He already has!

(soft music)

-WOMAN #4: O God, come to my assistance. -MARÍA: O Lord, make haste to help me.

WOMAN #4: Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.

MARÍA: As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. Amen.

Let's sing with joy along with the voice of the Holy Shepherd. Let us thank God,

who is the light and the guide.

WOMAN #4: Lord, I would like to pray for my parents, may you bless them.

For our catechumens, our catechists,

for all your Church, Lord. For all the people in pain

and do not know you. For all the people who are having a hard time now, Lord.

I'm María. I'm the eldest of six siblings.

I was born in a Christian family

where Christ has always been the center of the family.

Since my childhood, I've lived my parents' faith. We had no choice.

We belong to the Neocatechumenal Way.

On Saturdays, Eucharist.

"If you don't want to go, you live under my roof, so you will." Early on.

But I'm already old enough to have chosen a different path.

In my life, I have seen God exists.

I don't know whether it is a good thing or not,

but I see everything from a faith perspective.

I have seen the Church loves and welcomes me when even I don't love myself.

I think all the subjects we discussed here are very important

because they all affect us.

But I notice

concerning loss of faith.

It's not that all of this is irrelevant, it's not,

but I think feeling loved by the Lord is enough for me.

I don't need…

I understand the suffering of a woman who wants to have an abortion.

I understand an immigrant's suffering.

I understand the sufferingbof a person that feels left aside by others.

But I see everything takes the back seat when you have God's love.

Suffering brings you closer to Christ, which is what makes you happy.

In general, I live surrounded by people who are very close to the Church,

but I don't see real faith.

Yes, they go to mass,

they believe in God, but I get the feeling that few have a deep faith

and really live it in every aspect of their lives.

I don't know…

Your testimony of faith touches my heart, because you need to be brave

to say what you are saying in this gathering.

And that's a good thing, that is nice. Thank you for your testimony.

I like what you're saying because you're sharing your experience, your truth.

And having faith is a grace, it is a great grace.

But, while you were speaking,

I felt the desire to tell you something that Jesus said to Peter.

What did Jesus tell Peter? "Peter, Peter… Satan has asserted

the right to sift you like wheat." This is not the end of your path.

Your faith path goes on.

And faith is proven when it is authentic.

So, I don't mean to startle you…

MARÍA: Not at all.

FRANCISCO: But take heart and brace yourself for the test. Keep on doing

these things right, but don't fear when the test comes.

Because the Lord is also hiding during dark times.

The people who are outside the faith,

I see people who have their world fall to pieces. That startles me.

FRANCISCO: That's right. It is a pity.

MARÍA: And it pains me they don't manage to…

Yes, hope doesn't do its thing. And hope doesn't let you down.

If you bet on hope… Hope is like an anchor.

If you toss it towards the shore, you pull the rope until you get there.

But the anchor always stays there.

Hope never lets you down. Sometimes, we must struggle to keep it.

How old are you?

Twenty.

Twenty. You will have a nice life. Keep fighting

and allow the Lord to sift you. His love sifts us.

-MARÍA: Thanks. -FRANCISCO: Thank you.

(sweet music)

(laughter)

(birds chirping)

I'm Lucía. I'm 25 and I'm from Peru.

I was a nun some years ago. I was a Catholic, a real believer.

I think my faith always came from love, from honesty,

from a very honest search for…

not just God, but a strife to reach people.

I've had a very close relationship with pain. I still do, actually.

I'm not a Catholic anymore, nor am I a believer.

I don't know what exists and what doesn't. And I'm actually calmer.

I'm calmer, happier.

Actually, they asked here if we'd been in Rome before,

and I was, a few years back.

And I remember very vividly the day I was here. I was at the Sistine Chapel,

visiting The Vatican during a totally spiritual trip.

I also visited Lourdes and Fatima.

But I was there on that day after having many faith crises.

There's not just sexual abuse in the Church, but psychological too.

I think religious training is based on psychological abuse.

I was taught at a place where I wasn't allowed to see my family,

I wasn't allowed to communicate with people.

Texts, emails, and phone calls were monitored.

I didn't have access to information. I couldn't leave the house.

I tried to fight for my faith in every way I could.

And, in the end, I arrived in Rome, the Vatican, and I came full circle.

I realized this made no sense to me. I'm looking for love,

I'm looking for people. I want to relieve their suffering somehow.

And I don't think it makes sense from this wealthy and powerful place.

It's very easy to talk about suffering,

to talk about poverty or any other ailments from there.

And I had met love in many ways.

But once I left the Church, once I stopped believing,

I found love more authentically.

So, I've always wondered, from a very genuine curiosity,

what is love for the Church?

What is referred to as love from a religious perspective,

when God has been built on violence?

Okay. Look…

The true Church is at the peripheries.

At the center, there are good people, there are saintly people,

but there is also a lot of corruption. And that should be acknowledged.

A lot of harm has been done to the ecclesiastic institution,

to men and women of the church.

What you say about abuse of power is true.

I've heard so many stories. I've also had to have inspections sent.

Convents where there was an abuse of power.

Nuns who couldn't call their families.

Just as you say. Total isolation. A total abuse of power.

Sometimes, when one is in situations like the one you described,

and I believe you, unfortunately that does happen within the Church,

when you're in a situation such as that, the bravest thing to do is to run away.

That is, take some distance and "To your tents, O Israel."

It is a bad place, a place of corruption. This convent dehumanizes me.

I'm going back to my starting point, to seek humanity in my roots.

I'm not scandalized by that. But a spade should be called a spade.

I don't mean to convince you at all. I respect you.

But in you I see the pain of so many people

who have had to suffer these ecclesiastic abuses.

I don't see it in terms of pain.

It's probably the best thing that has happened to me.

Of course. You saved your life from a situation

in which you were a prisoner in psychological and moral terms.

You saved your life, but your life isn't over.

It goes on and, even though you don't realize it, somebody is with you.

There's somebody with you.

Let them be with you even though you don't pay attention to them.

(Lucía chuckles)

Though I would give you a word of advice.

Take care you don't get tangled up in ideologies.

Be yourself with your personality and your coherence.

Don't be enslaved by an ideology.

You should choose your ideas and seek coherence in your life.

That coherence between what you think, what you feel, and what you do…

the language of the mind, the language of the heart,

and the language of the hands.

You're in good hands. Keep walking. I'm saying this nicely. I am.

-For sure. That's how I'm taking it. -FRANCISCO: Walk on.

Thank you all. Each one of you has been brave enough to tell the truth,

and I liked it because each one of you said it with your own personality.

And from your own experiences, even from your own conflicts,

because we all have our own.

Just as we all have our traumas and our flaws.

Back in Buenos Aires, when I was a student, an old priest would say,

"Brother, you should pat your flaws and traumas like a dog.

Don't fight with them before it's time. Life will put them in their place."

I've learned a great deal from you. This has been very good for me,

and I thank you for it. Every one of you, no exceptions,

each one of you, from your point of view.

I would even dare to advertise this is the path of the Church.

We are all siblings, we are all united.

Each with their point of view, their position.

It may be more or less distant, but we're siblings, nonetheless. Fraternity.

We're walking on. And this fraternity business is not negotiable, ever.

We can discuss ideas, but not fraternity. Thank you. I thank each one of you.

ALL: Thank you.

And go on. Life is beautiful. It really is.

We should take care that it bears fruit.

-MILAGROS: Yes. For sure. -Thanks.

THE POPE: ANSWERS

(club music)

WOMAN: Ready, go!

(excited laughter)

(indistinct)

Empanadas!

Empanadas!

(indistinct singing)

(indistinct)