Original subtitles

Go

Go -What's going on, world?

I come bearing gifts.

I am at HartBeat Studios,

and I'm shooting "Hart to Heart" here.

That's right. From my studio. This is a big deal, man.

I'm out of the wine cellar into the studios,

which means that it only gets better. Doesn't stay the same.

God, how do I do it? I don't know.

It's the biggest question of the day.

How do I do it?

Go

Guys, we have stepped out of the "Hart to Heart" wine cellar

and are now at my HartBeat Studio in Atlanta,

but that is not the only exciting part

about this episode.

More excitement awaits.

Today, we have an exceptionally talented

singer-songwriter/actress with Grammys,

Tonys, Emmys, two Oscar nominations

that only solidified what we've already known --

She's a true gift and a natural talent with a heart of gold.

Actually, there is one of the few people

that I can call wicked and they love it.

Please welcome Cynthia Erivo to the show. How are you?

-I'm good. -Come in.

-I loved that introduction.

-It was a good introduction, right?

-Yeah. -It was great.

-It was lovely. -It flowed.

-I've never heard that one. It's very nice.

-That means that was a first. -That was a first, yeah.

-My job is to do more of the same

throughout this episode. Cynthia, first and foremost,

I want to say thank you for coming.

-Thank you for having me. -It's a very big deal

when we get very big people.

And it's my job to really talk to you in a way

that I feel like other people possibly haven't

in an interview setting. -Yeah, yeah.

-That's what makes "Hart to Heart" dope.

For me to get the comfort that I want to get to,

I love to drink a glass of wine through the conversation.

I think wine provides a natural flow.

A natural opportunity for progression in conversation.

-Yes. I am very open. -Okay?

I'm an open book, but I don't drink anything at all.

-Then you don't have to.

-But if you have a nonalcoholic something.

-I have water. -Water works.

-All right, well, then water is what it will be for you.

-Yes. -I am the complete opposite.

I am gonna take some wine,

and I may drink a lot of it. -You must. Please.

-Okay? So don't judge me. -You do it for both of us.

-Okay, good. I'm gonna call my somm in.

Come here, D.

This is my somm. -Sommelier.

-Ms. Erivo. Mr. Hart. -Hello. Hi.

I'm gonna situate Ms. Erivo first, if I may.

-Yes, please. Thank you. -Very welcome.

But for Mr. Hart, we do have

Châteaunef-du-Pape, the "castle of the new Pope."

Wow. Dating back to the 14th century

as early as 1306. 2017 vintage, though.

A blend of Grenache and Mourvèdre.

-Not the Grenache!

-Always Grenache. Always Grenache.

And it's fun to say Châteaunef-du-Pape.

-Ah, shots-of-da-pop. -[ Laughs ]

-What are the notes that you usually find

in something like this?

-Yeah, the beautiful thing about Châteaunef-du-Pape

and the beautiful thing about what Grenache gives --

It gives this very earthy... -Earthy.

-...yet ethereal, almost a boysenberry...

-Boysenberry. -...with this kind

of spearmint characteristic. -Oh.

-It's loud. -Yeah.

-It's got a lot of aromatics, but at the same time,

it's got earth because that's what Grenache does.

That's just the nature of Grenache.

-I've never heard of boysenberry and spearmint together.

-Oh, it's wonderful. Yeah.

-Bright notes and bright tones.

-Right. I was gonna say that. He beat me to it.

-He always nails it. -Bright notes,

bright tones, Grenache.

Very earthy. Very earthy tone.

Yeah. -Please enjoy.

-Yes, sir. I'll see you later, D.

Cheers. -Cheers.

-Cheers, cheers.

Now, the beginning, right? -Mm-hmm.

-You are very much about the craft.

You are very much embedded into the world of theater.

And your background shows that.

What I love to talk about is the entry point, right?

Like, you know, the rhyme and reason before.

What is it that helped you make the decision to say,

like, "This is what I'm gonna do."

-A couple of things.

Like, when I talk to my mother,

she always says that she can remember me singing

at the age of 2.

I don't remember that far back.

I do remember about the age of 5,

I was asked to sing "Silent Night"

at the Nativity play at school. -Okay.

-And I don't remember feeling shy or scared.

I remember that when I did sing it,

I saw lots of smiling faces,

and something about that reaction

sort of imprinted itself on me.

So I knew that whatever noise I was making, whatever that was --

'cause when you're 5,

you don't necessarily know that I'm singing a song

and I'm performing.

I just know that the sound I'm making makes people happy.

I knew that I wanted to continue doing that.

And I was such an outgoing kid. I wasn't shy at all.

So I was always doing performances on the playground

and writing scripts and creating little, like, vignettes at home.

-Was your mom or anybody else in your family...

-I think my mum's very dramatic, but she was not an actress.

-Okay. -But I think that's where I get

the flair for the dramatic from.

And she always encouraged it.

And I guess because of the encouragement,

because of the constant sort of, like,

exposure to doing those things and working with people,

I just fell into it.

And when I was about 11,

this interesting sort of theater company came around,

and they were looking for kids age 11 and up.

Maybe 11 to 15.

And they asked me to join.

We did a performance of a random play

called "The Caucasian Chalk Circle,"

which is not necessarily a play

that you would have young kids do, but...

-I love that you still have the title down pat.

-Still in my head.

'Cause I remember it like the back of my hand.

And I remember really loving what it felt like

to step into someone else's shoes

and what it felt like to play somebody else

and bring this world to life,

and when all you have are four walls,

but you create a castle in them.

Um, and I just kept doing that.

And I would sing at talent shows.

And as I got older,

I started doing backing vocals for different, like,

clubs and nightclubs.

And when I was about 20,

I bumped into a woman called Roma Ken

because I wanted to do some theater.

I was working at a theater that was close to where I lived.

And she said that I should go and train.

And I said, "No."

And she said I couldn't join the little theater company

that they were doing at my local theater company

if I didn't train. -Train.

Wow. -If I didn't apply to school.

So she said, "Meet me at my office.

We're gonna apply to schools,

and if you apply, then you can come and join this thing."

So I applied to the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts

and got in.

That was the only place I applied to.

It was the first time I'd applied.

And she helped me work on my speeches, and...

-What's the process like applying and getting accepted?

-So, you get an application, you fill it in.

You send it off.

You have your first audition.

And my first audition was two speeches.

and an interview. -Okay. Okay.

-Then, if you move through to the next round,

the next round for me was two speeches

and an unaccompanied song. -Okay.

-And I did a speech from "A Winter's Tale," Shakespeare,

another piece from a play called "The Colored Museum,"

and a song called "It's a Fine Line" from "Avenue Q."

-Are your nerves still the same as they were

when you were younger?

Like, you know -- Like, you said

you sung the song, and there was no nervousness,

there was nothing.

You were just doing it, and you liked the fact

that you made people happy.

-Oh, no. Now I'm nervous. Now I'm nervous.

I think the first time I did it, I was like,

"Nothing's going to happen."

So when you don't think anything is gonna happen,

you don't need to invest as much.

So there weren't that many nerves.

The second time,

when there was a possibility of me moving on,

then the nerves start coming through.

And now I really care. I wanted to get in.

And you sort of -- You don't --

I didn't start there wanting to go to drama school,

but that second audition for me was like,

"Oh, I have a chance at doing something

that I didn't think I could do. And now I'm nervous."

-What was your family's, like, reaction at this point?

I mean, like... -I didn't tell my mum.

-Really? You didn't? -I didn't tell her.

-Why? -Because I didn't want

to let her down, so I thought to myself,

"I'm just going to try.

And when I get in, I will tell her."

-It's that you weren't -- You didn't tell her,

you didn't plan on telling her unless you got in.

What was her reception to that?

-She -- You know what she -- I remember this.

She was sad because she wanted to help me.

-Wow.

-I never thought that she maybe would have already known

that that was my path anyway.

So it was kind of just waiting for me to realize it.

And if I'd have told her that that's what I wanted to do,

she would have been there every step of the way.

-That's amazing. I love that you got in, though.

So after getting in, of course,

the thing that I'm most curious about is, like, okay,

within theater, there's singing,

and then there's the actual acting of it all.

Was there one that kind of was a...

-When I went to drama school --

This particular drama school is, like, a classical drama school.

It's Shakespeare-forward, at least when I went,

and that was what it was.

Just straight-up classical acting.

Not really any singing.

You would have, like, a lesson or two for singing,

but it wasn't musical theater.

Singing was something I had possession of already.

-Okay.

-And then I wanted to make sure that as an actor,

I was up to par, as well.

So I went to school.

It's three years, Bachelor of Arts.

And it's a tough -- It's tough.

It's not an easy trip to go down.

And I was so -- I felt like a fish out of water,

and when you're a kid

that doesn't necessarily have very much --

And I was 20 at this point

and I was paying my way through it on my own.

So I was working on the weekends

and then going to school at the same time.

-It's a hustle. -It's a hustle.

I was falling asleep in class sometimes.

-Yeah. It is not a easy path

to go down. -No, no, no.

-Which is why, like, for me -- and I've said it before --

we've had guests on the show

that have the theater background --

There's such a high level of respect and admiration

that I have for that because I understand

the live performance aspect of it.

I understand it just based off of stand-up comedy,

and I know what the live feel of an audience,

the interactions are.

But the schedule, the grind. Like...

-We were -- On paper, it's supposed to be 9:00 to 5:00,

but honestly, it could be 9:00 to 8:00, 9:00 to 9:00,

depending on what the workload was.

And when we had shows and showings,

it would literally -- I remember there was one year

where because we were in so often and for such long hours,

I couldn't go home.

So I had to find, like, a little hostel close by

to stay in for the week.

And it was literally, like, a cot in a room,

and nothing else.

And I could go there, shower, go home.

That was about it. -All right, wait.

Cynthia, let me stop you right here.

We want to take a quick break.

Guys, we'll be right back

with more "Hart to Heart" after this.

Yeah.

- Go

-And we're back. And I'm still talking to Cynthia,

and what an amazing conversation we're having.

So, Cynthia, these things that you're talking about are --

You know, they are far -- not as far, few, and in between

as one would think. Right?

There's a lot of similarity through the hustle.

My one question for you is, like,

did you ever get to a point

where you faced the challenge of, "I don't know.

Like, I don't know if this is -- if this is the thing

that's gonna get me to the place of, like,

success or ultimate happy"?

Like, did it ever get you, like, with a roadblock moment?

-I think I've had a few roadblocks,

but I've never felt like this isn't what I'm supposed to do.

-Tell me your first.

What do you think the first roadblock was?

-I think my first road-- I mean, honestly,

before I went to school,

that was a roadblock. I was --

Just as I got into RADA,

I got my first job as a backing vocalist for this band

who was really huge in London at the time, Westlife.

And that money was enough to pay for RADA.

But the choice was this or that. -This or that. Ooh.

-And I chose that. I chose RADA.

-I am smiling because of the understanding of the choice.

-Yeah. -I'm smiling because, you know,

I feel like those are the hitting tests

that get thrown your way... -[ Laughs ] Yeah.

-...and often failed by a lot

because the money seems like the big reward in the beginning.

-You don't realize that that's the short term.

The long term is that thing.

That's what's actually gonna see you through. Yeah.

-So dope for you to realize that at that point

and make the right decision. -Yeah. It was tough.

I remember I was, like, devastated

because I'd never had something that big come along before

and it was the first time

something like that had come my way.

And we'd done some rehearsals, and I thought,

"Oh, maybe they'll let me go, and then I'll come back,"

and I had to make the choice, and that was the choice I made.

-It's the biggest and best and worst.

-Yeah. -It's like...

There's a merge of so many, like, things at that moment --

at that moment that it is.

I remember it was, like, you know --

It was either, "Do I choose the concept attached

to mainstream comedy with no financial gain,

or do I go and grab the money that is available,

but there's no other opportunity outside the envelope?"

Like, it's just...that's it. -Yeah.

-And it's, like -- It's a hard decision

because I really do need the money.

And I could use the money, and, oh, my God,

things could get easier if I had the money.

But I feel like down here... -That will actually...

-...more money will come if I finish this way.

Give me the final version of a roadblock.

-Final version of a roadblock.

Small play comes along.

It's "The Color Purple" in London, tiny little theater,

200-seater.

This is after drama school.

And I really want to do this play.

And I'm sure that this is meant to be the thing I'm doing.

I'm sure of it.

I'm sure this is the thing I'm supposed to do,

and no one will see me.

They won't see me. I can't get an audition.

My agent can't get an audition for me.

Nothing. And I'm calling and I'm asking.

And I'm calling and I'm asking. And something inside me

was telling me to just keep pushing, that I just knew

it was the right thing.

-Why did you have so much confidence in knowing

that this was the right thing for you?

-I don't know. -Really?

-You know when you know -- Just there was, like,

an innate understanding that this is the piece

that I was meant to do.

And it wasn't -- For where it was,

it wasn't a huge theater.

It wasn't paying a lot.

It was -- It was an off-West End production

of this particular piece. -Yeah.

-And I knew it innately -- I knew this was the thing

I was supposed to do.

And when I wasn't being seen,

a friend of mine then reached out and said, "Hey,

do you know this is coming?"

And I said, "Yes."

He said he knew the artistic director of the theater,

and he put in a good word for me.

Kevin, I had two days to learn four scenes and two songs

and prepare a song of my own.

I learned everything like the back of my hand.

-Wow. -Like the back of my hand.

I remember still staying at my mum's.

I had a day and a night to learn everything.

And I remember thinking to myself,

"I refuse to go in there

and give them the opportunity to say no to me.

They will not say no." -Oh, this is too good.

It's too good, but I have to stop you

'cause I have to take a break. Don't get mad at me, please.

Just let me do it.

Guys, we're gonna take a quick break.

We'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart" after this.

I know. I know.

You don't want the conversation to stop either.

Neither do I. But I have to.

Go

-Hello. -Hello.

-Hi. -Let me give you a hug.

-How are you? I'm good. -How are you? I appreciate you.

Thank you for having me. This is very nice.

That shirt is great. -Very nice. I'm going with you.

-All right. [ Laughs ] -I'd pick you over me.

-I know it's very honest. It's just us, chatting.

-It's a real conversation.

Authentic dialogue. No prep. Nothing to worry about.

-We're back. And we can get back into it.

We're still talking to Cynthia.

And this is still "Hart to Heart."

So, Cynthia, please, continue.

-It was so clear. It was so clear.

I could just -- I could see it. I knew it was right.

And the moment I had the opportunity,

I left nothing behind.

Like, I gave everything I could possibly give in that audition,

and doing that play changed my entire life.

-Well, before we get into the world of the play

because we're in such a great place right now --

We're talking about -- You know,

we're talking about the journey. -Yeah.

-We're talking about, you know,

the work, the blood, the sweat, and tears

that were put into the craft

before the rewards started to come.

I want to ask you -- How good of a feeling

did you have over the course of the two days

in memorizing and preparing and going in a room,

knowing that you did everything you were supposed to do?

-See, the best. It's the best.

That is one of the best feelings ever,

regardless of what the result is --

when you know that you've done everything

you could possibly do in your power

to be prepared for something.

There is a sense of accomplishment

that you can't really describe.

I just knew I was walking in there with all the armor

I could possibly walk in there with.

I had everything I needed at my fingertips,

and I felt so strong.

And I think that was one of those moments for me

where I was taught

if that's what you have to do to move forward with things,

that's what you do.

Regardless of the result,

the thing you do is prepare yourself for any eventuality,

make sure that you're always completely

and utterly ready so that no one can say

you didn't do your work.

-You know, when I was younger,

that feeling came, you know, once in a while.

I'll say once in a blue moon. -Mm-hmm.

-'Cause I wasn't the best student.

But I remember when I actually would apply myself

and actually study for a test,

and I went in and actually saw the questions

on a piece of paper that I knew the answers to,

it was the best thing in the world.

I was confidently writing down the answer

and finishing the test.

And I remember I would slam the pencil down.

"Uhh! I'm finished! Finished!"

-It's like something's been deciphered for you.

All of a sudden, you can understand all the code.

-You're looking at it through a different POV.

And it's the best thing ever. And I would get the test back.

And I remember it would come, and I was like,

"I know what I got. I got a A."

And then, you know, that feeling would go away

'cause I wouldn't study the same for another test.

But in life and in prep for career

and/or opportunities after, for some reason,

that thing clicked, and what you're talking about,

the reason why, like, there's a high level of excitement

from me about this particular thing

is because I understand what you mean when you go,

"I did everything I had to do.

I wasn't taking no.

I knew that this was right for me."

You then get it. Oh, my God.

-Yep. -Not only do you get it,

but let's talk about how it flipped from being the thing

where you're like, "Yeah, it's a small thing.

Nobody's probably gonna see it.

It's not gonna be, you know, too much of a thing,

but I just wanted to do it"...

Well...

Well, that changes. It changes. -Yes, it does.

-Yes, it does.

-And it becomes something. -Yeah.

-That something actually became a pretty big deal in London.

-Yeah, it did. Yeah. -A pretty big deal.

Well, now we're talking about another stage of success

that you're not prepared for

because you didn't expect this to be what it now is.

-Yeah. -I want to talk to you

about just your first reception of the limelight

and your first, like, reception of attention

at that stage in London. -Yeah.

We had this little play, and then all of a sudden,

it was sold out every night and people were coming

and people were applauding, people were on their feet.

And I had never really experienced anything like this.

And the one thing that kept going through my head

was, "Just keep telling the story.

Just keep telling the story. Just keep telling the story."

'Cause if I could connect to the story consistently,

then I couldn't be -- The feet couldn't come out

from underneath me because of everything else.

-That's how you're processing it?

-Yeah. I'm just gonna -- Like,

"If people are on their feet, it's fine.

We have a story to tell. Let's keep going."

And I kept that mentality -- and I still do --

for years, just because all of this is really lovely.

All the things outside are fantastic.

But if you're not telling a story

when you're meant to tell the story, then it's all empty.

It's not connected to anything.

So I think that's how I processed it.

It's very interesting because even in a small amount,

with a small amount of success and fame,

people are interesting because they assume

that you are changing.

But actually, you're just the same

and things are changing around you.

-That's the biggest misconception.

The biggest misconception is, you're changing.

-And also, you're trying to manage new things

and new personalities and things that are coming to you

that are different to what you're used to.

And it can be scary. It was very scary for me

'cause I just didn't -- I didn't recognize any of it,

and I just wanted to tell the story.

-Everybody can look up. -Mm-hmm.

-Right?

Because most people are underneath

the thing that they're trying to get to.

There's not many people that were underneath it

and that got to the top of it

that can understand what it's like to be underneath.

So the dual POV is only shared by a very small...

-Yeah. Yeah. -...small amount of people.

I talk about this all the time. -Yeah.

-So when you talk about the idea of changing,

the idea of changing are coming from the POV of others

that have no... -Yeah.

-They have no -- -There's no context for it.

-None. You have absolutely none.

To understand, like,

the world that I'm actually in and what I'm now dealing with

and how I'm navigating. -Right.

-My person has not changed.

But my surroundings, the environment and...

this is no longer what it used to be.

I'm trying to figure this out.

While I'm figuring it out, you can't expect me to still...

-Yeah, you need grace. People don't give you grace...

-1,000%. ...a lot of the time

when you're figuring things out. -1,000%.

-And it's also like there's an expectation

for you to have it figured out immediately

when, actually, it takes time.

Anything takes time. Everything takes time.

But when your surroundings completely change,

when the way people interact with you

starts to change a little bit,

when the expectation of you changes...

'Cause it's one thing to be a new person starting a new play

in a new -- That's one thing.

But even within a month or two, you stop being, like,

this new person in this new play

and you start becoming, "She is in this."

You're gonna go see this play because she's doing this.

-Yes.

-And the expectation of you is much bigger

than it was when you started.

-Well, that's a good segue

because your next opportunity was another lead,

another leading role

provided because of your success in "The Color Purple."

-Yeah. That thing went to Broadway.

-I mean... -I thought they were joking

when they told me it was gonna go to Broadway.

-Which is huge, by the way. -It was huge.

It just doesn't happen very often.

-What do you mean? It doesn't happen ever.

-Yeah. It just...

I genuinely -- I thought they were joking.

Someone said to me, "Well, one of the producers said, uh..."

It was, like -- I think it was opening night,

and we'd had a really beautiful review.

It was like a love letter to the show, and he said,

"What do you think about going to Broadway?"

I said "[ Laughs ] Sure, if you'll have me."

That was my response. -Yeah.

-That was my response because I genuinely thought he was joking

and just placating and being sweet and nice.

I didn't think anything of it until a week or so later --

"So we're taking this to Broadway

and we want to take you with it."

"I beg your pardon. What do you mean?"

-Yeah. Yeah.

-"What do you mean, 'we're going to Broadway'?

Okay, when it happens. You let me know when it happens.

Sure. Okay." And that's how I kept --

"Sure. Of course. When it happens, when it happens."

Another couple of months. "Okay, so we've found the theater.

We're going to be going such-and-such a date."

"All right. Cool." -Yeah. "You let me know."

-"You let me know."

And this went on until I have the ticket in my hands

and I'm at the airport looking at this flight attendant

with -- I'm, like, bawling

because I'm realizing, "Oh, my God."

-"I'm going." -"I have to -- I'm going."

-Yeah. -And I kid you not.

There is a 50-50 chance about

whether I'm going to stay in that airport

and go back home or get on that plane and go to New York.

-Wow. -Because if I go to New York,

I'm leaving something behind. -Everything. Yes. Yeah.

-And I remember when I left my house, my sister saw me off.

She said, "I can't come to the airport."

She said, "Okay." I said, "Okay. It's fine."

She goes...

She gave me a gift, and she goes,

"You left some of your clothes behind."

I said, "Yeah." She said, "Why did you do that?"

I said, "Well, why wouldn't I?"

She said, "Because you're not coming back."

I said, "What do you mean?"

She said, "You're not coming back here.

So I don't know why you left your clothes."

And she goes, "I'm gonna cry." So she lifts her head up

'cause she doesn't want to cry in front of me.

When she said that -- You know

when, like -- Have you ever played "Tetris"?

-Yes. -All the pieces...

-Yes. -...fall together.

And you go, "Oh, my God.

I'm actually leaving something behind

and moving on to change, to another stage of my life."

And I didn't realize that that was what this was going to be.

And when I get to the airport, I think, "Oh, my God,

I really have to, like, make the decision to move forward."

-Yeah.

-And when I get on the plane,

it takes me a while to navigate. Getting to New York

when you're on your own by yourself.

Having to figure out this new place in a new show

where nobody knows you and...

It just was these huge, massive stages

that I had to figure out, that had both joy in it,

but real loneliness sometimes,

'cause I just had never experienced it.

-Oh, it is too good. It's too good.

But I have to stop you 'cause I have to take a break.

Don't get mad at me, please. Just let me do it.

Guys, we're gonna take a quick break.

We'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart" after this.

-I think you'd be really great on Broadway.

I think you'd be great in a play.

-I just don't have the patience for the schedule.

-But you have amazing -- Like, I was watching one

of your shows. Your physical comedy,

your physical, like -- It's, like, immediate.

It's, like, a natural thing that people don't really have.

-I think it would be great. It's just the schedule.

-You could do it. If you can do the marathon,

you can do the schedule. -They'll go, like, five months,

two a day. -But the thing is,

if you want to do something,

you could make it as short as you need.

If you want to do a month two months of something,

you could do a month. -Too much.

If I didn't -- If I wasn't the crazy man trying

to do everything, then it would be different.

Right? Then it would be...

Go

-We're back. And we can get back into it.

We're still talking to Cynthia. So when you talk about theater,

you know, you are in a -- You're in a place

where everything is reviewed,

and critics love to have a point of view

and talk about and say things. -Yeah.

-Has that ever gotten the best of you,

or could it ever get the best of you?

-I guess it would get the best of me

in that I always want to be better.

-Okay.

-But I never let it shut me down.

Because, you know, art is subjective.

Whatever -- Some people might like it, some people might not.

You can't be everyone's favorite.

Not everyone is going to like what you do.

But I think as long as what I'm trying to do

is tell the truth as much as I possibly can, connect as much

as I possibly can --

As long as I'm doing that job, then -- then I'm okay.

-You're okay? -Yeah.

-Yeah, I don't really -- I don't really feed into them.

-It's not necessary. It's not useful.

-Also, all mine are always bad.

-For goodness' sake. -So I send them all gifts.

-You send them gifts?!

-I send them gifts.

I send them gifts, and then that started getting expensive.

I was like, "Well, wait a minute. I can't keep doing this.

I'm gonna go broke sending these people gifts

and all these daggone..."

But I don't, like, feed into them ever.

So I just -- I just stopped reading them.

-Yeah.

I'm grateful for the ones that come to me

'cause sometimes they come to me without --

I'm not searching for them, but...

And I'm grateful for the kindnesses

'cause there are some reviews that are really thoughtful

and they've dived into the piece,

and they've mined it for all of the details.

And that always feels really good,

when you know that a person has actually gone on

the journey with you and they wanted to go on the journey.

'Cause that means you've done your job.

Like, if you can move someone whose job it is to critique,

then that's great.

-1,000%. -Right?

-Journey that the theater actors are going on,

and some of the journeys,

like, they start and end in theater, right?

Like, there is no want for the bigger side of box office,

or theater, or movie star. -No. Mnh-mnh.

-Like, there's a real world of a success

and successful thing in this, and...

-That's it. -...that's it.

-Yeah.

-So in knowing that and understanding that,

I think, like, there's a tremendous amount

of just respect that I have simply for knowing that.

And then there's the merger of the two,

where you can jump in, jump out.

And, you know, some of the performers,

you know, get big above and beyond,

and it's just, they go back and go back to it.

-I think that's -- Any actor

that's come from theater and leaves

to go to film and TV

always gets the itch to go back to the stage.

I get it. I have it. -Yeah?

-Because there's something about the quality of being

in front of a live audience that is unlike anything else.

-Yes.

-And having live responses and hearing them.

When you're on a stage

and someone said something to another character.

You say something back to a character,

and the audience reaction is visceral.

There's nothing like it.

And when we talk about, you know, reviews and whatnot,

like, I'd be delusional to think

that everything is going to be good.

So I can't expect that it's always going to be good.

But I can expect of myself that I'm gonna try

and do my best work. -Absolutely.

-Right? And so I think this love of art, I think, for me,

performance and telling stories --

I think I'm a bit greedy when it comes to it,

to be honest,

which is why that ache for wanting to be onstage

doesn't really ever leave.

I think I'm lucky

in that I get to sing onstage in front of people live.

And so that gets to be filled.

That cup gets to be filled a little bit.

But I really love film and TV.

I really love being able to jump into these fantasy worlds

and create things that you might not be able

to create onstage. -Was there ever just,

like, a "let me get my bearings straight"

once you went from the theater to the film and TV side?

-Yes. My first film was with Viola Davis

and Michelle Rodriguez, and I was a puppy...

-Really? -...compared to everybody else.

-Really? -Oh, yes.

-Did you really feel that way,

or was it more about, like, "I'm a fan of my surroundings"?

-A bit of both. I was like, "I'm new."

-'Cause you're coming in -- But let's just --

I just want to make sure that we --

Let's just table that.

You're coming in with a tremendous, tremendous résumé

filled with receipts of polished, poised,

prepared individuals.

I just want to make sure,

like, we're very clear that on paper...

-[ Laughing ] Yes.

-Like, I'm what I am. On paper,

when you show up, I go, "Let me get my shit together.

-'Cause I don't want to... -[ Laughs ]

-I ain't gonna have her looking at me crazy.

Let me make sure I know all of my stuff."

Okay? Because I know where you're coming from.

So, I want to make sure that you understand, like,

there's a mutual feeling of that.

-I think -- It was -- I felt

like there was a mutual understanding

and everyone was so lovely and respectful and...

But I still was the newbie. I was the newbie.

And I'm okay with being the newbie.

And Steve McQueen's your director,

Viola Davis is standing there.

You go, "I'm just going to be here for whatever

you need me to be here for. What do you need?"

'Cause that's how you get better.

-That's the best part. Right? -The best partner.

The partner that shows up and that's prepared

to do whatever to make the project better.

-"Let me be of use." Yeah. -That's right.

"I want to make the project better."

I'm gonna make you laugh.

You and I have shared what I would like to call possibly,

like, one of the worst decisions that I made...

-Go on. -...in my career.

You've done something similar. -Uh-huh.

-I ran a marathon.

And the night of that marathon.

I decided to also book an arena show at the...

-Why do we do this?

-...the United Airlines Arena in Chicago.

I ran the Chicago Marathon. -Why?

-Because I can do it all.

What do you mean?

I'm Kevin Hart, and I'm gonna run this marathon --

26.2 miles.

By the way, it felt like somebody took my legs.

I've never felt more pain in my life.

Tried my best to sleep after the marathon.

Couldn't sleep.

I drank Coronas because I was trying to get my shit back,

my bearings together.

So I was looking for carbohydrates, whatever.

I could not walk on the stage.

The first and only time in my career that I sat on a stool...

-Oh, my gosh.

-...from beginning of the show to end.

For you, you ran a half marathon,

but you went and did two shows.

-That's right, yep.

-[ Laughs ] I don't know.

I thought to myself -- I had promised myself

that if I finished the half marathon with enough time

to get home and get ready, that I would go and do those shows.

And I finished the half marathon with enough time

to go home and get ready.

And by the time I got ready, the car was downstairs.

I got in, I got to the theater.

I had never run a half marathon in my life before, mind you.

So when I got to the theater,

the first thing I have to do is kneel on the floor.

-Oh, God. Oh, God.

-And so... -Oh, God.

-...there is a small second where you think,

"I won't be able to get up. I can't get up.

I'm not gonna get up. The show is not gonna continue.

I'm gonna have to do the show from here."

-I would have shitted myself. [ Laughter ]

-I couldn't -- I was like... -Right there. Yep.

-..."How am I gonna get up? I --

There was a little step behind me,

and I'm doing mental gymnastics to figure out,

"How am I gonna get up to continue doing this show?"

And I didn't put two and two together

because it wasn't just the physical.

Like, the physiological thing

that was going on with the muscles inside my body,

including my throat, the thing I have to use to sing.

-Oh, my God. -Everything is tight.

Everything.

-You did two shows. -I did two shows that day.

-That's nuts. -It was ridiculous.

-That's just... -It was silly.

-Well, let's just call it what it is -- It was stupid.

-It was stupid. It was. It was dumb.

-We're not the smartest people. -No, that wasn't smart.

It wasn't smart at all. [ Laughter ]

I'm very glad I was able to do it.

Very glad. But it was dumb. It was silly.

I shouldn't have done it.

I just -- I shouldn't have done it.

I couldn't -- It was a bad idea.

-It was the worst thing I've ever done in my life.

-And the thing is, I'll never live it down

because it keeps coming up and everyone's like,

"You did two shows after a half marathon?!"

I don't recommend it.

-Well, for a long time,

I thought I was the only one a part of,

like, a decision so bad.

And then I saw you. I was like, "Oh!

I'm not alone! I'm not the only one that..."

But the thing is, why would I

then continue and then do the full marathon,

take only two days off, and go back and do the show again?

-I did a half, I think, in Miami.

-Oh, cool. -I may have done

a half in Miami. I think.

I have three marathons for sure. And I didn't do...

-Chicago, I want to do. -Chicago's amazing.

-Apparently, it's flat.

-The whole thing is flat. -[ Sighs ]

-But for everybody else, it was probably perfect,

but on my day, it rained. 'Cause that's my luck.

-Oh, no. -Yeah. Bad rain.

The type of rain where in the middle of it,

you say to yourself a bunch of times, "Fuck this shit."

-No, no. It's the worst. -"You know what? Fuck this."

Three times, I probably said, "You know what?

Who cares that I'm not gonna finish?"

-Bad weather when you have to do a long run

is the absolute worst.

-Are you still actively running? Like...

-On and off. -Okay.

Walking and running, walking and running,

-We're getting smarter. -We're getting smarter.

-We're getting smarter. How about we just say that?

-Yeah. -We're both getting smarter.

-It's good for us. -By the way,

there's so many similarities

that you just don't even know about.

Like, when you say walking and running,

I'm like, "Yeah! That's it!" -See?

"That's the plan!" -Yes.

-That's what we needed.

-We should have been doing that back then.

Nobody told us that back then. -Lord!

No, I bet you someone did tell us and we just didn't listen.

-We just ignored it. -'Cause I'm sure someone said,

"Hey, on your day off, just walk."

And I went, "Well, I'll start walking," and then...

-All right.

So, wait. I want you to go on,

'cause this is extremely important.

I think honestly, my audience needs to hear more of it.

But let's take a break first.

We'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart" after this.

-Cynthia, thank you so much. What a treat.

-Cynthia was fantastic.

If they could all be like Cynthia,

my job would be easier. -[ Laughs ]

-Okay.

-We're back. We're talking about theater.

We're talking about the trials and tribulations, ups, downs.

I mean, God, it's so much.

I mentioned you're doing so many things.

Of course, you were from theater,

the world of television. Box office is happening.

"Wicked" -- a big project.

-Yes. -Very, very massive.

I cannot not talk to you and not get into the details of it.

How did it come about?

Like, what's the origin story of you involved in "Wicked"?

-When I was at drama school,

I would go into, like, a piano room with a friend of mine,

and we would play the music.

I'd never seen show. I just knew the music.

And I learned this music like the back of my hand.

I knew it back to front, all of it.

And then when I was about 25,

I took myself on a solo date to see "Wicked"...

-Okay. -...at the theater.

Cut to 10 years later, when I'm 35.

I get a call to say,

"Hey, we would like you to come in

and audition for this role, for Elphaba."

-This is without understanding that you are already a student

of "Wicked" at the highest level?

-This is without understanding.

Nope, they don't know that I know it as well as I know it,

but I know it very, very well.

And I took a meeting with the wonderful director

that is Jon Chu.

And we're sort of like kindred spirits.

We had a really wonderful conversation.

And then a couple of weeks later,

I was sent the material to come in and audition.

And it was just a really emotional and connected day.

I was there for three hours. -Wow.

-And I did many scenes and about three or four songs.

And that day, before I came in,

I was doing laps singing the songs.

So running and doing the songs

just so I could have it in my body and in my breath and...

-That's, like, a wind exercise, I'm assuming?

-Yeah, just, like, to -- I do the audition,

and, like, I feel great and everything is going really well,

and I leave everything there.

I get into the car to come home,

and by the time I reach my doorstep, I have a fever.

And then I am in bed for four days, ill.

Cut to two months -- two, three months later.

I get a call --

I get an e-mail, actually, from my team

'cause my team has a flair for the dramatic.

They sent me an e-mail to say that there was a book

that they thought we should jump on immediately as a piece of IP

that could be really cool,

that we could maybe put in as part of my production company,

and maybe we want to talk, but we need to talk to the writer.

It's 1:00 a.m.

I'm in London, and I'm ready for bed,

but I'm like, "Fine. Sure. I can get myself together.

Let's have this conversation now.

I'll get, like, a pair of glasses on.

Make sure I look smart enough to have this conversation."

I press the Zoom and Jon Chu's name comes up.

My brain doesn't put two and two together.

I think, "Well, maybe it's his book.

Maybe he knows something about the book.

Well, it's fine." It's just coincidence, isn't it?

Jon comes up,

my team comes up, and I'm still not putting two together.

And then he starts talking about,

"So obviously, your team's talking about this book that,

you know, is about the --"

and he starts describing this young woman who,

you know, was from London,

who used to steal away to a piano room

with a friend of hers... -Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

-...and sing the music, and now she is in front of us,

and we don't know what planet she's come from,

but we want to give you the role of Elphaba."

I cannot tell you the feeling of elation

that I had. I burst into tears.

-That's so dope. -It was just wonderful.

And from that point to now,

we've had the most incredible journey making this film.

-Wow.

-And I don't say it lightly when I say

that there is a -- We have created a family of people

who are of one accord, who know that this movie is special,

if not to anyone else, to us.

We worked very, very hard. Blood, sweat, and tears.

Bruises to show for it, the whole lot.

We were -- Whether it be singing live, doing our own stunts,

flying in harnesses, whatever it was,

that's what we were doing.

And I think this is one

of the most amazing moments in my life.

-That's dope.

-One of the most amazing experiences

I've had in film just because of the people

that I got to work with. -You checked a very big box.

-Yes. Yeah. It's huge. -That's a very big box.

To be a part of the checking in that box...

is a massive thing. Like, that's -- Kudos to you.

-Thank you.

-And honestly, well deserved. And shouts-out to your team

for the way they delivered the message.

I love the -- I love that. -I'm lucky.

I've got a beautifully, wonderfully caring team

who are constantly looking out for me

and care about me as a person, as well as the work that we do.

It's all very thoughtful.

They're always really, really thoughtful.

We're all, you know, moving in the same direction together,

and they want the best for me.

And I want the best for them.

They're amazing. I'm really lucky. Yeah.

-All right, wait. Cynthia, let me stop you right here.

We want to take a quick break.

Guys, we'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart" after this.

No way. My wife bitches at me too much.

-Can I take a picture of you two?

-No way. -Get in the middle.

Oh. Nice. Perfect. That is perfect.

Nice. Love it.

Go

-We're back. And we can get back into it.

We're still talking to Cynthia.

Okay, look, so the success

has bubbled and blossomed into so much.

Right? Now that you're experiencing it on all fronts --

Like you said, "I'm never not gonna go back to theater,

even though I have the success of television and film."

I mean, "Wicked." Huge. It's gonna be big, right?

All of these things. What is the want from you now?

What's the thing that you're like, "You know what?

I want to get my hands on this"?

-Yeah. -"I want to also do this."

-Yeah. -Now that you've tackled things

that you've put your mind and you've seen

the power of putting your mind on something

and it actually happening, what else is there for you?

-There's a couple things.

Some things that are for my heart and some things

that are for business.

And, like I have a production company,

and I really want to be able to create an infrastructure

that allows me to be able to create things for other people.

I want to make sure that...

'Cause, you know, there weren't that many places

for me to go when I first started.

You sort of have to find them.

You have to have a really good team

who's willing to have the fight with you.

But I want to be able to have pieces

that I can find new talent

so they don't have to necessarily work as hard

as I had to work.

And I loved the hard work.

I wouldn't change it for the world.

But wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to help someone,

if they don't need to do all of that extra?

-You're on the board, if I'm correct, of your alma mater,

where you started, right? -Yes.

So, now I'm the vice president

of the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts.

Yeah. -What are you talking about?

That's, like... -I'm so excited about it.

I've been going back to the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts

for about five years teaching, which I love.

It's, like, one of my loves,

probably one of my raison dêtres,

'cause I love going into the school.

And I teach performance through song,

so I'll work with the students and ask them to prepare songs

and we'll work through each piece

and help to put the building blocks together

that they've had over the year,

'cause I usually see them in their final year.

Such a full-circle moment.

It's such a -- because, you know, it's where I went,

and If I was to say it was smooth sailing,

I would be lying.

-People hear so many stories about,

you're not gonna know what the thing is

that could possibly launch you

into the place that you want to be.

You may not see it.

It may not be the thing that you think

it should be or will be. -That's right.

-But when it happens, if you're prepared for it...

-Mm-hmm. Yeah. -...you'll know.

Your story throughout this conversation is just one of,

like, preparation. -Yeah.

-Your commitment to being prepared,

your commitment to saying, "I'm gonna do the work

and buy into the process,"

it hasn't failed you. -No.

-And I love that.

-And this is what I tell a lot of my drama students, as well,

because I think so many people

who are coming into film and TV and theater,

they're always told, "You're gonna hear a lot of nos.

You'll hear a lot of nos.

It's gonna be really, really difficult,

and it's hard to..."

But rarely are they told, "You might hear a lot of nos,

but you are gonna hear yeses." -Yeah.

-"And if you're not ready for the yeses,

well, then it's probably not gonna keep coming."

-Yeah.

-So, for me, I've always had the idea,

well, a yes is gonna come at some point.

And what I don't want to be is unprepared

for when that yes comes along.

I really want to keep being ready.

So I am reading.

I am listening to music all the time.

I am listening to different artists.

I am going to vocal lessons. I still have a vocal coach.

I still speak -- used to speak to my acting teacher,

God rest her soul. She passed away.

But I would talk to her about everything.

I would send her the scripts that I was doing.

She would look at the pieces that I had done.

I would bring her to the show

so I could still keep my training going

because I always wanted to be ready.

Even the running, even the physicality,

that's all in aid of not just my mental,

but for me to physically be always ready to go

and do the work that I need to do.

Sometimes that sounds trivial, but it really is true.

If you are consistently in preparation mode,

if you're consistently in "I'm getting ready.

I'm always getting ready,"

then when something comes along, you will be ready for it.

You won't be unprepared.

And I think that that's the most important thing.

-Cynthia, you're dope.

-Thank you, Kevin. -Your cadence, your reason,

more importantly, your world attached to your why

is dope. I want to thank you.

I want to thank you for coming on and doing "Hart to Heart."

Ladies and gentlemen, this is what it is.

This is real, raw, authentic conversation.

-Thank you. -Of course, I'm a fan.

I can't wait to see what you do next.

Thank you for coming on.

-Thank you for having me. -Thank you.

-This is really cool. -This is good, right?

-This is good, yeah. -How dope was that.

-That was awesome. -Fucking great.

-That was awesome.

[ Indistinct conversation ]

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