All language subtitles for Hip-Hop.Evolution.S04E03.The.Super.Producers.720p.10bit.WEBRip.x265-budgetbits

[narrator]
It's easy to forget today,<
but before hip-hop had rappers,<

it was just beats.

In the beginning, what we call "hip-hop"

was actually a collection
of the biggest, hardest sounds

from funk, soul, jazz, rock, and disco,

with no MCs in sight.

Over the years,
producers were seen as solitary types,

reclusive geniuses tucked away
in basements,

surrounded by esoteric equipment
and mounds of records,

but as techniques and technology improved,
and regional barriers fell,

a new breed of producer surfaced,

determined to rock crowds
just as hard as they rocked beats,

and to be as famous as any MC.

[record scratching]

[rap beats playing]

[narrator]
If you want to talk
super producers in hip-hop,

a good place to start

is with one of the genre's
most unheralded board smiths,

a producer whose influence was so deep

that he'd inspire a whole constellation
of super producers.

But before he could do that,

he'd become a star first
by mastering both hip-hop and R&B.

The sound was "New Jack Swing."

The producer was Harlem's own Teddy Riley.

[hip-hop beats playing]

[Teddy Riley]
I grew up in Harlem,
129th Street, St. Nicholas projects,

and just made music
out of the first floor.

I was just making beats.

We used to go
to this club called Harlem World.

I would go there and see Crash Crew,
Disco Four Plus One More,

Busy Bee, Lovebug Starski.

You know, at 14, 15,

I'm making records for a bunch of rappers:

Spoonie Gee, Kool Moe Dee,
Big Daddy Kane.

They would come up to my place
and I would cook up a beat.

[hip-hop beat playing]

[A-Plus]
We're both from the same projects.

Teddy's music would just be...

I mean, he had some speakers, man,

that would go all the way up to
at least...

You was feeling it at least
on the fifth floor.

You know, you'd just kind of walk in,
and Teddy's working on something.

That was just the daily thing.

The studio was set up
right in the living room.

-The bathroom was the mic booth.
-[toilet flushing]

Top to bottom,
it didn't matter who you were.

You going in that bathroom
to do them vocals.

[Tammy Lucas]
I met Teddy at Uptown Records.

He was already doing
a bunch of hip-hop.

He knew music, period.

You know what I mean?

So, it didn't really make a difference
what the genre was.

You gotta keep people on the dance floor.

That was my formula.

R&B, fusion, pop, jazz.

Put it all together
and you get new jack swing.

["Now That We Found Love" playing]

♪Now that we found love
What are we gonna do ♪

[Dre Lyon] He created a style of music.

That's how influential Teddy Riley was.

New jack swing was important
because it merged hip-hop music and R&B.

He was sampling horns
and sampling drum loops,

and it was, like,

any rapper could
get on the record as well.

♪One, Two, tell me what you got ♪

♪Let me slip my quarters inside your slot
and hit the jackpot ♪

♪Rev me up, rev me up
My little buttercup ♪

♪We can tug sheets
Snuggle up and get stuck ♪

[A-Plus] New jack swing was energetic,

and just commanding you
to enjoy yourself when it comes on.

Forget everything, just have a good time.

His popularity was growing,

he was doing it real big,

and Teddy wanted
a particular level of focus

that was getting
increasingly challenging in Harlem.

[interviewer] The move to Virginia Beach.

What prompted that and why Virginia Beach?

[Teddy RIley] The move to Virginia Beach

was because
when I lost my little brother, Brandon,

who got killed in Harlem,
and when I got that call

all that was in my mind,
because I'm a real quick creator

when it comes to thinking
of anything, an idea.

Right then and there I said, "I'm moving."

[hip-hop beats playing]

[narrator] At the height
of his success and influence,

Teddy Riley would leave his Harlem base

for the unlikely location
of Virginia Beach.

At the time, it raised eyebrows,

but no one would have predicted
it'd start a chain of events

that would change hip-hop forever,

and still be felt on the charts
decades later.

[Mad Skillz] Virginia is right under DC
and it's right over North Carolina,

so you get a little bit of everything.

It was like a melting pot.

You would hear Southern music,

and then you hear Baltimore club music,

and then you hear bass music from Miami.

There was no hip-hop scene.

It was just going to parties
and people DJing,

and you go to parties and you just dance.

Nobody was MCing.

So you didn't think,
"I can make a record,

put it out, then it would blow up."

Like, that was something you saw on TV.

We knew we had something,

I don't think we really knew
how to cultivate it yet.

Then Teddy Riley set up shop in Virginia

and that opened up a whole door
for a whole lot of people.

♪All I wanna do is zoom-a-zoom
Zoom zoom and a boom boom ♪

[Mad Skillz] You might see a Lambo
going down the highway.

"Yo, you see Teddy's Lambo?"
Like, "Teddy Who?"

They like,
"Teddy Riley. He got a studio here."

You know, you could ride
by his studio and,

"That's Teddy Riley's studio."

We used to stand out in front

and you would see the people
walking into the studio.

Like, "One day I want to be able
to walk in there

and just be in there with Teddy
and work with him,"

because he's a legend.

[Teddy Riley] I was on a mission
to build a music scene

and Jimmy Buffett was the only one there.

So I was like,
"Wow, I can really do something here."

So I say, "You know what?
Let's develop talent shows,

where we can find talent."

How many of y'all
think you got some talent?

[Teddy Riley] Most of the singers
that would sing Luther Vandross,

you know, the whole high note,
the "Apollo" high note,

you know, and you win.

I ended that. You're not going
to pick the Luther Vandross guy.

It's not gonna take the high note
to win this talent show.

It's gonna take talent. Hidden talent.

It's time for our next performers.

Give it up for Pharrell and Chad,
The Neptunes.

[hip-hop beats playing]

[Teddy Riley] And I wrote down
to the judges,

"You're gonna pick these guys
right over here,

The Neptunes.

This is the winner."

[Chad] Pharrell Williams and I,

we started out in the gifted
and talented program at school.

I was playing saxophone.

There was a lot of tenor sax in pop music.

You'd turn on MTV,
and you'd see the guy with the...

[mimicking saxophone]

and I wanted to be that guy.

Pharrell Williams was playing drums.

I remember Pharrell organizing
the drum line to play "Bonita Applebum."

[beatboxing]

[Chad humming]

I had to set up a lab
at my parent's house.

I had an SK-1, and a four-track studio

and just started banging out beats,

and Pharrell was rapping about, like,
nature and science fiction.

And we had, like, four songs
that we played at the talent show.

[indistinct rapping]

[Tammy Lucas] They won the talent show,

and the prize was
to record a song with Teddy.

Even though that was the prize,

it wasn't really happening, you know?

Teddy was a busy guy, you know?

A lot of cute girls, a lot of fast cars.

I kept telling him,

"You gotta do something with these guys."

And Teddy took it seriously
and he signed them.

[Chad] Teddy was definitely a mentor.

Just to see him work was amazing,

because he was an engineer
and he would layer the drums.

We got the chance to make music
with some of the acts that were in there,

and we had a chance to write
for Wreckx-N-Effect.

They knew how
to just go right into the studio

and just work on music,
and they just kept making beats.

That was the development. Hands-on.

Pharrell was the guy to write my rap.

Pharrell was like, "Yo, I could
put something together, you know?"

I was like, "Bet. Do it."

That's how Rump Shaker was.

So he went,
"We're gonna do a little thing like this."

♪Ji-Ji-Jiggity
Jiggity, yes, it's Teddy ♪

♪Ready with the one-two checker ♪

♪Wreckx-N-Effect is in effect
but I'm the wrecker on this track ♪

♪'Bout the honey shakin' rumps
And they backs in ♪

♪Booties of the cuties
Steady shakin' but relaxin' ♪

♪The action
Is packed in a jam like a closet ♪

♪Beats bound to get you up,
Cold flowin' like a faucet ♪

"Rump Shaker" was a hit.

That song ran, like...

As soon as you hear that horn, man.

[imitates saxophone]

♪Check baby, check baby
One, two ♪

It was a rap.

I had no clue that was Pharrell.

I just found that out, like,
within the last two years.

[Chris Williams] You're talking about
someone fresh out of high school,

writing the anthem for the summer of 1992.

♪All I wanna do is zoom-a-zoom
Zoom zoom and a boom boom ♪

♪C'mon just shake your rump ♪

♪All I wanna do is zoom-a-zoom
Zoom zoom and a boom boom ♪

♪C'mon just shake your rump ♪

[Chad] Yeah, it was pretty dope.

It totally propelled us,

and Pharrell as a songwriter
and a producer, and it kind of--

We just wanted to build from there.

[Tammy Lucas] Pharrell and Chad decided
to part ways with Teddy.

You know, they were ready
to charter unknown territory.

[Mad Skills]
They were ahead of their time,

so I understand Teddy Riley not knowing
what to do with them in '92,

because it already sounded like 2012.

I remember Pharrell saying,
"Yo, come here."

He plays this joint
that they in there working on,

"Yeah, it's the great space coaster.

You know, I got my laser in my holster."

And I just remember listening, like,

"Wow.

They really believe this Neptune shit.
Man, they really on this thing."

[Chad] Our production style,
it was really influenced by the '70s.

We were recreating samples,
or sampling ourselves.

And we just wanted to be different.

We aspired to make people feel
like they were on drugs, or on substances,

just from the music alone.

Into the intergalactic.

["Superthug" playing]

♪What, what, what, what, what,
What, what ♪

♪What, what, what, what, what,
What, what ♪

♪What, what, what, what, what,
What, what ♪

♪Yo, we light a candle
Run laps around the English channel ♪

♪Neptunes, I got a cocker spaniel ♪

♪We on the run now,
You know it ain't no fun now ♪

♪And where I go,
Yo niggas can't even come now ♪

[Mad Skills] Ah, man, that shit...
When people heard that song in the club,

it sounded like an explosion.

It was so futuristic.

It just felt so fresh and strange
and weird and, like,

just completely new.

And, at the time,
everybody in New York was just like,

these two weirdo dudes from Virginia,

like, do these beats.

And I just remember thinking, like,
"Virginia Beach? Like, what?"

♪What, what, what, what, what,
What, what ♪

♪This is the life, y'all
Of a superstar ♪

♪Fly ass mansions and a million cars ♪

♪Gotta get the cash yo
And it's live or die ♪

♪The Neptunes and Noreaga
The limit is the sky ♪

[Williams] "Superthug" really put Pharrell
and Chad on the map.

That record kind of just,
blew everyone back.

Like, "Where did that sound come from?"

And everybody started knocking
at their door at that point.

"Southern Hospitality" with Ludacris,

"Shake That Ass" by Mystikal,

"I Just Wanna Love U" by Jay-Z.

They were producing for everybody.

You think about how successful
they were becoming during that time.

But, to take two guys from Virginia Beach
to national prominence?

It changed everything.

Like, "Grindin'" is one of those anthems
for the state of Virginia.

♪The world
Is about to feel ♪

♪Something that they've never
Felt before ♪

♪C'mon ♪

♪From ghetto to ghetto,
To backyard to yard ♪

♪I sell it whipped un-whipped,
It's soft or hard ♪

♪I'm the neighborhood pusha ♪

♪Call me subwoofer,
'Cause I pump bass like that, Jack ♪

[Mad Skills] Virginia had another side
that people hadn't seen yet.

It was gritty, man. It was an inner city.
It was rugged.

The Neptunes came up with our answer
for that hard shit.

I think a rumor has it
that Jay-Z actually wanted it.

Pharrell was like,
"Nah, I can't give you this one."

The Clipse, they weren't trying
to make New York hip-hop,

but they were making hard street shit
for street people.

"Grindin'" was the hardest shit out.
Period.

♪Grindin', cousin ♪

♪I got wholes for a dozen
Even eleven-5, ♪

♪If I see ya keep it comin' ♪

[Teddy Riley] I got the opportunity
to be in the "Grindin'" video,

and it was just passing that torch.

I brought new jack swing,
they brought The Neptunes sound.

[Dre Lyon] I mean, The Neptunes
were already super on fire.

What they showed
was that you can create a sound

that just crosses all genres.

[Mimi Vald矇s] That's why the Neptunes,
to me, are the first superstar producers,

because they started out, you know,
doing, like, hip-hop.

They've worked with every kind of artist,
every genre,

and they were able to still go in there
and make it distinctly "Neptunes."

["Grindin'" playing]

[Magoo] I think it showed the legitimacy
of hip-hop finally being accepted.

You don't just get to work
with Britney Spears.

You don't just get to work
with Justin Timberlake.

They're going to get the best producers
in the business to work on those projects.

They wanted full-blown hip-hop.

I think that's why it worked for Justin,
why it worked for Britney,

because they didn't try to water it down.

"I want it like that."

At one point, they had...

I think it was 60% of all music

that was being played on the radio
was produced by them.

So, you could listen to 20 songs,

and 12 of those motherfuckers
was produced by The Nep--

It was insane!

I mean, they changed the face of music.

It's not a lot of people
that can say they did that.

♪Niggas better stay in line ♪

♪When you see a nigga like me shinin' ♪

♪Grindin',
Grindin' ♪

[narrator] One of the hallmarks
of being a super producer

is having an unmistakable sound.

And even as their beats ran the charts,

a Neptunes beat always sounded
like a Neptunes beat.

They didn't cross over to go pop,

they forced pop
to cross over into hip-hop,

and that was huge.

But The Neptunes weren't the only ones
in Virginia making freaked-out hip-hop

that would change pop.

Pharrell had other talented friends,

and he pushed them to follow his path.

["Pony' by Ginuine playing]

-Thank you so much.
-Alright. Thank you.

[interviewer] I'd love to start
with some of your early days,

when you made your first beat.

When I made my first beat,
I think the equipment I was using

was my mouth, just me beatboxing.

You know... [beatboxing]

Pharrell and I grew up together,

like, you know, his family, my family.

Pharrell is like the big brother of us.

He always been different.

You know, he always had vision.

I was fortunate to be a part
of some of the vision.

[Magoo] Me and Tim, we were in a group
with our homeboy Larry together:

SBI, Surrounded By Idiots.

I came up with the name.

Pharrell ended up joining the group
for a while.

"Magnum the Verb Lord, opening the door."

♪Magnum the verb lord
Opening the door ♪

♪My third eye's for thought travel
Tickling the core ♪

[Timbaland] But, then, you know, Pharrell,

he saw a different path, you know?

He was always trying
to move the world forward,

as I was, with sound.

[Magoo] At the time,
Missy was in a great group called Fayze.

They had a song on the radio,
called "First Move."

And I remember telling Tim,
"We have to meet these girls."

A week later,
a friend of mine calls and says,

"I got these girls I'm working with:
Fayze."

I said, "What?"

I'm like, "Yo, y'all gotta meet this guy
that I work with named Tim. He's dope."

So we drive over to Virginia Beach.

Missy hears Tim, and that's it.

They worked with each other
from that day on.

[Missy Elliot rapping indistinctly]

[interviewer] Tell me about meeting Missy,

when you started
to notice a chemistry, creatively.

Was that right away with her?

Chemistry is something
that you can't pinpoint or talk about.

You gotta feel it and see it for yourself.

Music will always feel music. I am music.

Music is going to feel its soulmate,

and she was my soulmate.

[Magoo] Missy and Tim were like
Batman and Robin.

Tim would be producing,
Missy would be writing,

and that would be like, all day.

That was their good time.

Tim didn't like leaving the studio.
Missy didn't like--

They didn't like leaving the studio, man.

Me and Timbaland are most definitely
trying to put Virginia on the map.

We just trying
to take music somewhere else.

Everything we do,
we try to make it futuristic.

[Timbaland] As a producer,
I considered myself as different.

I just... I fall in love with tones.

The frequency of sound,
and how I space it,

it's for my liking.

At that time I was like,

my music is maybe not ready
to be presented to the world yet.

Because I'm just a little guy
from Virginia.

You know, I don't know much,
don't have much.

Missy taught me how to fight
and never give up on my gift.

She was the one that gave me the voice
to believe in myself,

and told me how dope I was.

Teddy Riley was a big influence.

If sonics was food,

he brought the ingredient, the flavor out.

Just made me like, "Man,
I gotta get my stuff to sound like that."

You know, and as I'm trying
to get my stuff to sound like that,

I'm creating the sound.

♪I'm just a bachelor ♪

♪I'm looking for a partner ♪

♪Someone who knows how to ride ♪

♪Without even falling off ♪

[mimicking "Pony" baseline]

When I first heard "Pony," I lost my mind.

[mimicking "Pony" baseline]

"Pony" was insane.

Like, insane.

You never heard nothing like it.

♪If you're horny let's do it ♪

♪Ride it, my pony ♪

[narrator] Built from stuttered drums,
a beat-boxed bassline,

and cartoonish sounds,

"Pony" was the world's introduction
to Timbaland's singular sonic palette,

but Tim and Missy's unique alchemy
was just coming into its own.

This is Tim, right here.
The man behind the music.

He real quiet, he real shy.

That mean he's a murderer.

[Missy chuckles]

[interviewer] Making "Supa Dupa Fly,"

did you guys know that
you were going to make something

as influential as it ended up being?

We just knew it had to feel good.
We young.

We want to party,
we want to make people dance.

Missy was a dancer. She liked to move.

We just needed to bake the right cake.

Missy would make me
go through a hundred beats,

and, "No, we're gonna do it better."

She knew how the music
was supposed to sound,

what she wanted to do.

She had the whole vision.

She always made me think forward, like,

"Is this really what we got,
or do we have more?"

♪I was looking for affection ♪

♪So I decided to go, ♪

♪Swing that *** in my direction ♪

♪I'll be out of control ♪

♪Let's take it to perfection ♪

♪Just you and me ♪

♪Let"s see if you can bring-bring-bring
The nasty out of me ♪

[Mona Scott Young]
What Tim provided for Missy,

was a safe place to be herself.

She found this partner who understood
how to help her bring that out,

because he was just as out there
as she was.

You know, they would talk
about not listening to the radio

and not being exposed
to outside influences,

and having to go inside their minds
to find their sound.

And "Supa Dupa Fly"
was the result of that.

♪I be the B-R-A-T, her be Missy ♪

♪And we some bad bitches
Who be roughin' it up ♪

♪I'm the B-R-A-T, her be Missy ♪

♪And we some bad bitches
Who be roughin' it up ♪

I mean, Missy was really like,
a "What the fuck?" moment.

Not only was she a dope MC,

but she was so uniquely her own,

and she was so smart,
in terms of her visual representation.

"I'm not gonna look like an R&B diva.

You know what?
Put me in a fucking black garbage bag,

and blow me up
so I look like a space creature,

and everybody's going to love it."

She is singular and unique.

I don't think there is an artist,
then or now,

who sounds like,
feels like, Missy Elliott.

♪Sock it to me like you want to, ooh ♪

♪I can take it like a pro you'll know ♪

♪Do it long bro with a back stroke ♪

♪My hormones jumpin' like a disco ♪

♪I be poppin' mats like some Crisco. ♪

♪And all you gotta say is that Missy go ♪

♪And when you say it though
I want it moved slow ♪

[Magoo] Saying Missy and Tim are
super producers is an understatement.

Just their production style
sounds like it's from another time.

Almost as like...

they went on a spaceship
with Marty and Doc,

and got the idea for how to produce
the music from somewhere else.

Maybe it's a VA thing.

What came out of VA is creativity,

a new way of music being heard,

and it was the birth
of what rhythm is today.

["Supa Dupa Fly" playing]

♪Sock it to me
Sock it to me ♪

[narrator] It might be hip-hop's greatest
strength as a genre,

that it observes no real rules.

No sound is heretical.

Nothing is out of bounds.

As long as it moves people
and you can rhyme to it,

you're good.

Missy, Timbaland
and The Neptunes leaned into that,

and took over hip-hop, pop and R&B

by forgetting everything they knew.

But, sometimes,
hip-hop works the other way, too,

and figures out the future,

by obsessively studying the past.

[techno music playing]

No matter how distant and different
its predecessors might seem.

Early '80s Detroit is the techno capital
of the world.

We coming up with
Juan Atkins, Cybotron, Clear.

[techno music playing]

I mean, that shit, that's our shit!

That fucking techno is in the water,
you know what I mean?

Hip-hop in Detroit evolved
with techno kind of in a linear way,

as New York with hip-hop and punk,
kind of at the same time.

Same venues, same parties, even.

It was just a mixture of incredible music.

There were no barriers.

And that, ultimately, helped us shape
our musical point of view.

Where it was like,

"What genre? Like, is it funky?"

Dilla encompasses all of these ideas.

He incorporates techno,
he incorporates Tony Allen,

you know,
a little bit of Clyde Stubblefield,

and it's very Detroit.

Techno is a Detroit genre,

as is Dilla.

[narrator] Detroit's history as a center
for both modern

and traditional black music

made it the perfect training ground
for the musically curious.

So, maybe it makes perfect sense

that a musical omnivore
with a tireless work ethic

would emerge from the D
to channel the canon of black music,

via his mastery of machines.

[interviewer] So, I want to ask you about
the early days,

when you first met Dilla.

Even early on, Dilla was like,

just different from the kids.

Like, kids had backpacks,
he had a briefcase.

You know what I'm saying?

He was super smart,
and his talent was crazy.

He'd go like, record shopping,

and he'd get a lot of stuff like,
I didn't know the names of.

[J Dilla] When I make music,
it's straight from the heart.

I want people to feel what I feel.

I want them to feel that energy...

[T3] I had heard about Dilla.

Heard he had crazy beats.

So, we met, we went to his house.

He had a little, bitty drum machine,

but those beats were crazy,

and that's when we formed Slum Village.

We grew up in Conant Gardens.

It just so happened that we found a guy
called Amp Fiddler.

He stayed in Conant Gardens with us,

which was even more insane.

It's just like, how'd we find this one guy
who lets us come to his house?

Some kids he don't know,

come to his house and record stuff.

[Amp Fiddler] I was a musician
for Parliament/Funkadelic,

and I had my own studio downstairs,

and these kids came to my house

and asked me
if I could help get some music done.

And I was like, "Yo, so, what's up?
What do y'all want to do?

I'm down for helping y'all
to make it happen,

if you got skills.

If you don't have skills,
don't waste my time."

And that's when I heard Dilla.

[interviewer] What did you think
of what he was putting together?

[Amp Fiddler]
The audio quality was horrible,

but the skill set behind it
and the ear?

Amazing.

He already knew what he wanted.

He just needed tools.

I showed Dilla the MPC.

"This is how you use it."

I said, you know, the sky is the limit
what you can do with this shit.

It's just what you could imagine.

He did it all with that damn machine.

[T3] Yo, we made this shit in a basement
in like, 30 minutes.

[hip-hop beats playing]

[Baatin] Turn the mic up a little.
Turn it up.

[indistinct rapping]

[T3] He always pushed the boundaries.

The drums going off a little bit,
you know what I'm saying?

But, damn,
that's what's making this funky, though,

at the same time.

It's on enough
where it's not like, sloppy.

In an era where you could
make everything so perfect--

Yeah, you can quantize everything!

[electronic drum sounds]

[DJ Dez] Quantization is assistance
of the drum machine.

It just puts it on beat.

The reality is when musicians
and real people play, the timing shifts.

There's little imperfections and nuances
and expressions that take place,

that you can't get
with anything quantized.

That's one thing I learned
about J Dilla instantly

from his production was,
don't depend on quantization.

Use your instinct.

Don't stay in the box.

[indistinct hip-hop playing]

[Amp Fiddler]
There was a distinct difference

between that and everything else
in hip-hop at the time.

Deep in the back of his mind,

there was a rhythm that God gave him
that was like nobody else.

He made me feel like reggae,

because he was behind the beat.

That made people excited.

And, on the underground, it was like,
"Oh, shit, this is dope."

Say "Hell, yeah!"

Word the fuck up.

[Q-Tip] I was on a Lollapalooza tour,

and Funkadelic was on there,

and this guy Amp Fiddler
was playing keyboards,

and he was like,
"Man, glad to meet you, bro.

I got this brother, man,
he's just like you.

Like, he loves you, man.
I can't wait till we get to Detroit,

so you can meet him."

So, then, we get to Detroit.
Amp comes on the bus with Dilla,

he brings him on,

and he's smiling ear to ear,
with glasses on,

"Yo, here's our tape, man."

He couldn't really talk. Amp was smiling.

They gave me the tape.
You know, it was, "Peace."

[music playing]

Then, later, I'm listening to this shit

in the back of the bus
with Trugoy, from De La.

I'm like, "Listen to this shit!
This shit is called Slum Village."

So, he's like, "Yo, this shit is ill!"

Song two, "Yo, what the fuck?"

I'm like, "It's ill, right?

I'm not buggin', right?
This shit is crazy, right?"

He's like, "Yo, dig it. This shit is ill.

Who doing the beats?!"

I was like, "I know, right?

-[interviewer chuckling]
-Them beats is crazy, right?"

Like, this shit was kind of like,
I guess, what I did,

but way better.

I played it for Questlove, Common.

I played it for Pharcyde,

and I was just talking about him
to everybody,

"You gotta hear, you gotta hear."

[record scratching]

[Bootie Brown] When we hear this tape,

we're just like, "This is new shit!

Like, there's no drum patterns,
there's nothing."

It's like, "What is this?"

We're like, "That's it.

That's our new sound."

["Drop" playing]

♪Let me freak the funk, ♪

♪Obsolete is the punk that talk more junk
than Sanford sells ♪

♪I jet propel at a rate that complicate
their mental state ♪

♪As I invade their masquerade
They couldn't fade with a clipper blade ♪

[interviewer] Can you talk about
the significance of that beat?

Because that, basically...
I mean, it was a huge hit song.

It also introduced
this revolutionary artist,

producer, to the world.

We told this fool, like,

"Dude, you're gonna get so big,
you'll forget about us,

and we'll never get a chance
to fuck with you again, right?"

-Wow.
-Right? We told him all this shit.

And, at the time,
he was in the caterpillar stage,

but he became a butterfly.

♪Yeah, you know what time is it
Yeah, uh-huh ♪

Dilla had just completed work
with Pharcyde on the West Coast.

He went and bought a BMW cash,

and he went from his parents car to that.

Like, quick.

Damn, man. We about to lose our homeboy.

You know what I'm saying?
He about to move to LA.

What I do is, I make CDs.

Twenty-four beats per CD.

More beats, more exposure, you know?

I'm trying to set it off.

People would be crazy
for his next beat CD,

because you didn't know
what you were gonna hear.

You got Slum Village,
we were trying to get beats.

Then you have Q-Tip, Busta.
You had De La Soul.

And people were attacking
his beats CD like dogs.

It would be gone, that quick.
Like, just like that.

[electronic samples playing]

[Royce Da 5'9"] At Dilla's house,

he had the basement done
for the studio.

We just down there, working.

I asked him if I could get some water.

He told me right up the stairs,
he told me to go in the refrigerator.

And I remember coming up the stairs,

and I open up the door,

and sitting on the couch,

is Common.

No shoes on, just totally relaxed.
Just sitting there, chilling.

I'm like, "What the fuck?

What's up, Common?"

You know what I'm saying?
He's like,

"Hey, what's up, man? How you doing?"

So I shook his hand,

and I just remember
thinking to myself like,

"This dude is a legend, man."

He is Detroit, dude.

And he just got guys like Common,
just sitting on his couch.

Like, with no shoes on.

I saw Common's feet, like, as a kid.
You know what I'm saying?

-Oh, yeah.
-Shit.

Yeah, yeah.

[Common]
I want to take it somewhere else, too.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I just want all this to be the atmosphere.

[Waajeed] He had a tendency
to downplay colossal things.

"Erykah Badu's in the basement.
What was you saying?"

It's like, "What?

Did you just drop a bomb like that
and keep it moving?"

So, I remember being
one of the first people

that was informed that he was sick.

It was early on, but you know,
we didn't take it that serious,

to be frank.

He downplayed it pretty well.

Yeah, it wasn't 'till I saw him
in the hospital, on his birthday,

that I knew how it really was, yeah.

[House Shoes] Phone rings, it's Waajeed.

He's like, "He's gone."

"What the fuck you mean?

What are you talking about, 'He's gone?'"

And his whole tone just got--

Probably some of the most urgent shit
that I've ever heard in my life.

He's like, "Shoes, he's gone."

[Kahn] When he passed,
that was a huge deal.

"He's gone."

Like, "Wait, what?

What did he have?"

Well, he had lupus, a blood disorder,
he was going through this."

And so, the story spilled out afterwards.

And then, when it hit you...
Like, okay, this guy...

We're not gonna let this dude's legacy,
what he stands for, die.

He's your favorite producer's
favorite producer.

["Find a Way" playing]

♪Now you caught my heart
for the evening ♪

♪Kissed my cheek, moved in
you confused things ♪

♪Should I just sit out or come harder?
Help me find my way ♪

♪Now you caught my heart
for the evening ♪

♪Kissed my cheek, moved in
you confused things ♪

♪Should I just sit out of come harder?
Help me find my way ♪

[Will.I.Am] We all looked up to Dilla.

He's a puzzlemaker.

He breaks it all up,

and then reforms the puzzle
in ways you never thought possible.

That's Dilla.

[Q-Tip] You know,
the "behind the beat" thing, with him.

The switch-up shit, with him.

How this shit hit
at the right time, just perfect.

It was like Michelin star hip-hop.

The motherfucker has
just such an incredible feel.

♪I'm on my J.O.
Bullshitting hoping that the day go slow ♪

♪Got like a friend,
What confuses me though ♪

♪Is kisses when we breeze,
Tell me what's the deal yo? ♪

[interviewer] What do you think the music
world lost with him passing so young?

[Waajeed] Dilla was a leader for styles
and points of view.

But, I'll tell you what they gained.

What they gained was the cornerstone

to be able to take it
to the next level themselves.

We got to keep it moving.

We got to focus on,
"What's the next sound, the new thing?

[Amp Fiddler] Most of our geniuses
leave early.

They leave us their legacy,
and they leave us their music.

And I think
the music will live on forever.

♪Help me find my way
Now talk it out ♪

♪Now you caught my heart
for the evening ♪

[narrator] While the soft-spoken J Dilla
was admired by his peers during his life,

it was in death that his legacy grew.

Today, Dilla is globally recognized

as one of hip-hop's greatest innovators
and geniuses.

A man who put the soul back into sampling.

[door closes]

[sampled drum beat playing]

[narrator] But, not far from Dilla,
in Chicago,

another sampling savant was at work.

And this soon-to-be super producer
was never going to wait for a eulogy

to be crowned a genius.

He was determined to let the world know
he was one from the get-go.

?杵erve base heads
by the streets accordin'♪

♪Kanye more important
than Michael Jordan. ♪

♪Got this rap game locked,
you can call the warden ♪

♪Give hoes cock,
then I'm gone by mornin' ♪

♪I'm gone ♪

[Coodie Simmons] He was probably 15, 16,
when I first got wind of him.

He was super confident,
but he still had them other sides

that was like a kid just trying
to figure it out, trying to make it.

Of course, he was producing people
out in Chicago,

and started doing beats
for Jermaine Dupri and them peoples.

Samples was, you know,
maybe in the beginning

more loops than chops,

but they always had this feel.

The drums. His programming was really...

You know, nothing was gonna be loose.

Everything sounded good,

and he was still a kid.

For a long time, people were telling me,
"Man, if you go out to New York,

you could really get your music on,
you could really kill the game out there."

I packed up all my stuff,
packed up all my decks,

threw it in a U-Haul,
and I just drove to New York.

[John Monopoly] We were going around
trying to sell beats in the city.

We were just trying to rub elbows
with the hottest.

At least, that's kind of
what the strategy was, back then.

But he always rapped
and he made it so you knew that he rapped.

You know what I mean?

In A&R meetings,
with CEOs of labels that he...

He would hop up on tables.

He'd let you know,

"Yo, I got hot beats,
but I got them lines."

[interviewer] Kanye as a rapper.

What did you think of him initially,
as a rapper?

I didn't... [laughs]

It took a while for Kanye
to find an identity.

Nobody at the labels believed in him.

But, as a producer...
Oh, man, people respected.

Once he had the respect,
he wanted the win.

[Kyambo Joshua] I was an A&R for Jay-Z.

Kanye, he would constantly send me stuff.

He was just like, "What do I need to do?

Like, what type of music?
What type of sound?

What do Jay need?"

I tried to give him advice,
what we were working on

for The Blueprint album,

when we were kind of shifting
into more of a soulful vibe.

And the next day, he was like,

"Check this beat out."

He's playing "H to the Izzo."

I said, "Send me this beat,
Jay gotta use it" you know?

Wow.

He was like, "You sure?"

I was like, "Send me that right away."
And Jay used it.

[Kanye] HOV done bobbing his head to it.

♪H to the Izz-O, V to the Izz-A ♪

♪For shizzle , my nizzle,
Used to dribble down in VA ♪

[giggles]

I called my Mom, I said,
"Mom, we about to make it!"

♪H to the Izz-O, V to the Izz-A ♪

♪For shizzle, my nizzle,
Used to dribble down in VA ♪

It was like a vibe was set
for that first Kanye record.

'Ye ended up producing six songs
for the album:

"Never Change," "Ain? No Love,"
"Song Cry."

Jay went around playing it
for Timbaland, Pharrell,

and people were just tripping.

Every time they came, it was like, "Whoa."

[Monopoly] The sped-up soul sample...

That sound, man...
It was progressive, new.

He championed that lane.

That was his staple sound.

[Damon Dash] Kanye had showed me
this tattoo with like,

you know, these records that he had done.

I was like,
"Man, you better get longer arms."

You know? Like, "You just started."

What did you think of his rhymes,
his skills as an MC?

I wasn't thinking of him as a rapper.
Look who I was around.

JAY-Z, Cam'ron.

I thought he had guts,

because he would walk into Baseline,
and I'd be wanting to hear music.

He would just play shit,
like, with him rapping,

in the mix of all of us.

And I'm like,
"You got a lot of fucking nerve,"

and I liked that.

[Kanye] If I could rap anywhere near
the caliber of my beats,

I would kill the game.

Murder the game.

He would play a beat for Jay,
and then he would jump on the table,

and rap to everybody in the studio.

He was very animated. He was driven.

I remember walking in the studio one day,

and Kanye
was rapping his heart out for Jay-Z.

Jay was on his two-way,
Jay was making calls,

Kanye just kept rapping.

Jay was filing his nails.

He was doing everything
but listen to this kid rap.

And I was, like, "Yo, he's alright.

A little weird, but he's alright.

He can rap."

I think the thought was just,
"Give him what he needs,

get him in-house,

he'll make music for everybody,

and he'll do his thing, too.

Whatever.

[Damon] I told him to make an album
and make it a compilation,

because you know, with your beats
and all of us on it, it's gonna go gold.

And I'm the newest member
of the Roc-A-Fella team.

[Kyambo] When 'Ye got signed,

it was a struggle
of trying to make people believe

he was a real artist
and not a producer-rapper.

That was, like, the stigma,
but he was doing a lot of production.

He was kind of overworking himself.

[Will.I.Am] First time I ever met Kanye,
he was working on College Dropout,

and he was like,
"Yo, Will.I.Am, Black Eyed Peas!"

I'm like, "Yo, let's collaborate."

And he left the studio that day,

and that's the day
he got in a car accident.

[Kanye] My whole life changed.

I remember looking
in the rear-view mirror,

and seeing my jaw cracked in three places.

[John Monopoly]
He breaks half his face,

but he was just so determined
to get his music out,

he recorded a record
while his mouth was wired shut.

[Coodie Simmons]
You know, I'm talking to him,

He like, "Yeah, man, I got this song."

He can't even barely talk, like,
"I got this song."

I'm like, "What are you talking about?"

He's like, "You gotta hear it."

I'm like, "You're mouth is wired like,
ain't your jaw broken?"

But, he was rapping through the wire.

♪Bad night right place wrong time ♪

♪In the blink of an eye
His whole life changed ♪

[No I.D.] He immediately knew
the path he wanted to take as a rapper.

You know, he gave up that ambition
to fit in.

I think it was when he found out
who he was,

and began to tell his story,

that it became magical.

Who does that? You know what I mean?

Goes through that trauma,

mouth wired,

makes Through the Wire,

and gave Roc-A-Fella a different look.

You know, it wasn't just
about one way or one style.

After the accident, he did that record
and released that record,

and he couldn't leave LA,
because of the pressure.

He couldn't fly for a long time.

So, we got a big corner room
in the W hotel.

We set up the studio there, went full mode
and finished College Dropout.

[John Monopoly] College Dropout really
represents a shift in the culture.

You could actually be articulate
and intellectual, and not be a gangster,

but still be fly and have jewelry.

He used to say, "I'm the first guy
with a Benz and a backpack."

It showed the individuality
of somebody saying,

"Look, I'm not compromising
or doing anything what's out there,

I'm doing what's true to me."

That's what he did with "Jesus Walks."

That was something
that broke barriers as well

because nobody of that magnitude
has every released a song like that.

I believe in Jesus, you know what I mean?

So, I'm like, "Oh, this is cold."

The delivery, how he put it together.

♪So here go my single, dawg,
Radio needs this ♪

♪They say you can rap about anything
Except for Jesus ♪

Everything that Kanye was doing
was important because no one had done it,

and it was just gutsy
to step into hip-hop in that moment,

and to be that way,
and to have that point of view.

And he had us behind him.

The whole thing is,
y'all people out there,

they're saying, yo,
they like the way I rap.

Man, y'all done messed up, boy.

Because, it's over with, now.

Now we in another era where anything goes.

I'm gonna give Kanye that credit.

Anybody can be anything to me now.

[crowd cheers]

[narrator] For years, the attitude
in hip-hop towards rapper-producers was,

"Pick a lane,
because no one is good at both,"

but super producers ended that.

Kanye, Missy, Timbaland,
The Neptunes, and Dilla,

didn't share a sound,
but they did share an approach.

They were hip-hop auteurs.

Songwriters, beat makers and performers,
all rolled into one.

It was an empowering shift in hip-hop,

that allowed these auteurs
to spread their sound across hip-hop,

across genres,

and across the charts.

And, for a while, the super producers
became hip-hop's new king makers.

That is, until the new breed
of rappers came in,

and flipped the whole game on its head.