Original subtitles

-[all] Taylor! Taylor! Taylor! -Back up, back up.

[Zing] I really can't think of that many other pop stars

who have turned what is a boardroom deal

into the stuff of a fandom war.

She literally called on her fans to apply pressure

on Scooter and people who know him.

[text notification chimes]

[Scooter] I just think we live in a time of toxic division

and people thinking that social media is

the appropriate place to air out on each other and not have conversations.

When it gets to a place where there's death threats

and there's people being threatened in the manner they're at,

I just think it's got out of hand.

Stand right here.

[Mikael] Scott Borchetta, who signed Taylor Swift's

Big Machine, he sold the label,

and with it her Masters of her early work,

to Scooter Braun, who Taylor had long viewed

as a nemesis.

[Rachel] They were all harassed.

If you were in any way associated professionally

with these two men, you were made a target online

by Taylor Swift's fan base.

Legally, Scooter had the absolute right to buy this asset.

The truth didn't matter.

She had the ability to rally her fans.

It wasn't David versus Goliath.

It was Goliath versus Goliath.

[all cheering]

Taylor Swift is in charge of an army, and she's the general.

[Zing] It becomes very visible in public in a way

that not a lot of boardroom politics are.

[Marina] I do not see that he did anything wrong.

He paid for his rights fair and square.

He paid a lot of money for his rights.

[Lucas] To go from being this sort of celebrated manager

to being seen as the villain on the internet,

I think was pretty tough for him.

She was creating this victim narrative

over something that was more complicated

and was a business deal and wasn't some

bullying attack against her.

Taylor is very down to earth. She's very genuine, very real.

[woman]To have this collection of moments and stories

and these powerful things

taken away from her and sold without her knowledge

was truly like a gut punch.

She knew Scooter expected her to sit down and shut up

and be a good girl.

And she wasn't going to take it that way.

[woman]We're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars.

We're talking about the catalog of one

of the most beloved artists in the world.

There was a lot at stake.

♪ Tell my soul Only love forgives ♪

♪ Only love forgives ♪

♪ Tell my soul Only love forgives ♪

♪ Only love forgives ♪

♪ I've been playing with fire ♪

♪ It's got me on the devil's list ♪

♪ I tell my soul♪

♪ Only love, only love forgives ♪

[all cheering]

[Zing]Taylor is more than just a musician.

She is, in her own right, a kind of pop culture giant.

[all] We love you, Taylor!

Taylor has a really close relationship with her fans, with her Swifties.

She has power in a very different way to Scooter,

and that's kind of cultural power,

which means that she has people who are happy to ride

to her defense on socials whenever she wants.

[all cheering]

[Rachel] Fan clubs have always existed,

but now we call them fan armies.

I think just the scale of followers that Taylor has

creates an effect of that feeling of mob mentality.

There's really very little else like it just because of

the way that she connects with her fans.

I don't want to miss any show of Taylor

because I was a Swiftie since I was 15

and now I'm 28 years old

[sniffles] and it's, you know, it's 13 years.

[Zing] I think what this all boils down to

is whose side are you on?

If you take Scooter's side, it's about someone weaponizing

their fan base, their ability to make themselves out to be

a victim in order to cast doubt

and torpedo a deal that, by all accounts,

is financially and business-wise completely sound.

[upbeat music playing]

[Lucas]Scooter Braun was one of, if not the only,

music manager of his era who people knew, who was kind of famous.

Partly because he'd been so closely tied to

the rise of Justin Bieber, who was one of the most famous celebrities

in the world, and Scooter was his manager.

[Alex] The typical picture of a music manager

is either a suit and a dealmaker,

or perhaps a shady Svengali like Lou Pearlman,

or an unseen force.

Scooter's very different.

Scooter's management style was to be the big brother

to his main artists, and I think that comes through.

There's a lot of affection, there's a lot of laughter,

and there's just an easy way he has around his big stars.

I couldn't be more happy that I met him

-and he helped me get to where I am. -[woman] That's so nice.

[Alex] I first got fascinated with Scooter Braun in 2009

when we covered Justin Bieber for the first time.

And I wondered, who was it who found him

on YouTube and put him out into the culture?

Scooter was born in 1981.

He grew up in Greenwich, Connecticut,

perhaps the greatest bastion of white Anglo-Saxon Protestant America.

His family, however, were Jewish Holocaust survivors.

And it's clear to anyone who's spent time with him

or even just seen his social media that

his family and their history were very important to him.

He was the ultimate insider and outsider.

[Scooter] The lessons I have learned from this research are threefold.

First, a multicultural society is essential for human rights

to survive.

[Alex] It's interesting that at the same age

that Justin Bieber was making YouTube videos,

Scooter was making a film about his family's Holocaust experiences.

My grandparents are Holocaust survivors.

My grandmother was in Auschwitz,

my grandfather was in Dachau.

And I grew up, as far as I can remember,

with the stories of the Holocaust,

of why certain family members aren't here,

what happened to us.

At one point, someone scratched a swastika

into his car, and he was known to get into scraps over

anti-Semitic comments, though mostly when

other people were being picked on.

Realizing that you're different,

realizing that you see the world different,

when you're growing up with that little bit of bravery

and a little bit of fear, you recognize that in other people.

And I wanted to help people. I wanted to be a part of it.

I think what I ended up doing as a job was helping

people go after their dreams.

[upbeat music playing]

[Alex] Scooter went to college at Emory in Atlanta.

He wasn't a big partier, but he threw these big bashes

that drew up to hundreds of people.

Jermaine Dupri and his then-girlfriend Janet Jackson

came to one, and that was Scooter's big break.

Jermaine ended up hiring Scooter,

seemingly based on his ability to throw a party,

and he made him head of marketing at Dupri's label So So Def.

He was soon throwing bashes for everyone

from Shaquille O'Neal to Britney Spears.

That's where Scooter first cut his teeth professionally in the music business.

He had already decided he wanted to be

a music manager by that point.

And he was on the lookout for talent when he came across

a YouTube video of a skinny kid named Justin Bieber.

[Justin]When I put out my videos on YouTube,

it was kind of just for my friends and family.

And to see it go so big and to have someone

like Scooter that was able to help me,

you know, show it to the world and do what I love,

I think it's been incredible.

And when I saw him the first time,

I always knew we would get here.

And I think now that he's 18 and becoming a man, you know,

how good of a man, how he carries himself will define how far he goes

'cause his talent, you know, is endless.

[Alex] Bieber's success was a catalyst for Scooter

and his entire business.

In 2017, WSJ, The Wall Street Journalmagazine,

asked me to profile him at length.

We had a lot of long conversations.

He was already thinking about his next act.

Continuing to diversify within the music business

and cement his mogul status, he had an eye on bigger things.

[Lucas]There's a story initially in the Wall Street Journal about

and Scott Borchetta selling Big Machine to Scooter Braun.

And immediately there's a strong reaction to it online.

It was clear that Taylor Swift knew what was coming because

she was ready with a Tumblr post in which

she attacked both Scott Borchetta and Scooter Braun,

Borchetta for basically selling her work out from underneath her.

And Scooter for buying it and for just being a bad person,

which takes over the news pretty quickly.

Like, the sale becomes less important than the fact

that Taylor is upset about the sale.

Taylor Swift, the pop star speaking out after

a top manager brought the rights to her music,

and she is not happy about it.

Now that company, along with her catalog,

has sold for $300 million to someone who Swift claims

once tried to dismantle her musical legacy.

Braun recently purchased Big Machine Label Group,

which gives him ownership of all of Swift's original recordings

of her past six albums.

[Alex] It's too good a business opportunity.

If you said the most successful pop artists

in the world's Masters are up for sale, do you want to buy them?

Yeah.

The business version of him would see the value in it.

I don't think there's any doubt of that.

As much as Scooter wants to be liked,

he makes no apologies for being a businessman.

He paid for his rights fair and square.

He paid a lot of money for his rights.

So from his point of view, I'm sure he's confused why he got into hot water.

[Lucas] The level of antipathy that she seemed to feel

towards Scooter Braun was surprising.

And it was something that I think a lot of us tried to figure out.

What was the motivation?

I don't think she's been fully honest about why

she feels so strongly about Scooter Braun.

-[man 1] Taylor. -[man 2] Taylor.

-[woman vocalizing] -[acoustic music playing]

[Zing] When Taylor was a kid, she moves to Nashville

and she plunges into the music world.

[Taylor] Y'all, like he said, I'm 16.

Don't know if I'm allowed to be in here or not, but whatever.

Um...

She was in an industry showcase when she caught

the eye of a record executive called Scott Borchetta,

who was setting up a label called Big Machine.

[Lucas] Scott Borchetta was a very talented record executive.

He had a big part in turning Taylor Swift

into the star that she was.

I was just smitten on the spot.

-It was like a lightning bolt. - [Taylor] The best part about getting a record deal

was that it wasn't just a record deal.

It was the right deal for me.

I'm just so grateful that I got the right one

and that I'm with people that I believe in and that they believe in me.

[Dr. Jennifer]In a documentary called A Place in This World,

you see a younger Taylor Swift talking just jubilantly

about how happy she is to be with Scott,

be at that record label, how that's the only place for her.

You can see her, she's in the recording booth

with just absolute joy on her face.

It seemed like a really symbiotic relationship at that time.

She was this rising star, they were this new entity,

and it just was right people, right place for both of them.

So things have not always had all the animosity

that we see today.

[Zing] Taylor signs with Scott Borchetta's Big Machine Records,

and as part of a cash advance, she agrees to give Big Machine

the Masters to her first six albums.

[man] Excellent. Looks great.

[Neama] Copyright law contains three components.

The lyrics, the music, and the recording.

If the artist wrote the song, they own the rights

to both the lyrics and the music.

But the recording company owns the rights to the recording.

That's called a Master.

[Marina] Big Machine basically took a chance on an unknown artist.

And the studio determined that what they want in return

is the physical manifestation of the performance,

which is the Master recording.

Thank you so much New York City.

[Neama] As the artist, Taylor owns the rights

to the lyrics and the music, and the record company owns

the rights to the original recording.

This is standard in most recording agreements.

[indistinct chatter]

[Marina] Taylor did get to record six albums.

They paid for the recording, they paid for the marketing.

On behalf of Big Machine Records and our partners

Universal Music Group Worldwide,

we are so proud to present to you this plaque that

indicates you have sold more than 20 million records worldwide.

-[gasps] -[all clapping and cheering]

Oh, my God.

Famously, she used her first paycheck to buy

a Lexus convertible as a kind of snub to the popular girls.

She's talked about this as being a real kind of F.U. moment

in her career where she kind of says, you know,

you girls were busy not inviting me to things,

going to parties while I've just used my first paycheck

to buy the car that Regina George drives in Mean Girls.

So it kind of really shows you what she was about

from a very young age. She's really hardworking,

she's super talented, but she likes to kind of keep score.

And you know, she's not above holding a grudge

and she likes to get one over other people.

She got everything out of that contract

that she could possibly want.

Big Machine made her the star that she is today.

Is it a fair bargain?

It has worked so far.

She might have moral objections, but those don't,

unfortunately, don't always count in the court of law.

[Zing] Taylor's Tumblr post kind of kicks off this online firestorm.

So it becomes very visible in public in a way that

not a lot of boardroom politics are.

It becomes, because of Taylor's celebrity

and her openness and posting about it on Tumblr,

much bigger than that.

[man] Taylor talks about not having consented

and her Masters being stolen.

I've seen no evidence that anything was stolen from Taylor Swift.

And I don't know where consent comes into it.

Her consent was not required for the label to sell itself

to someone else.

[Neama]Taylor says that she became aware of the deal

at the same time as the rest of the world.

And that's one of the key things that upset her.

Taylor also claims that she wasn't given the opportunity

to buy those Masters outright herself.

[Lucas] It's very hard for me to believe that Taylor Swift

did not know that that deal was coming in some way.

I also believe that she probably didn't get

the chance to buy her music in the way that she wanted

and feels that she was wronged by Scott Borchetta,

which then forces Scott Borchetta to respond

and try to say, this is what really happened.

[Marina]Scott Borchetta denies Taylor's version of events

saying, you know, it's time for some truth.

Scott Borchetta says that he personally texted Taylor

to tell her about the deal and that she had

every opportunity to own not only her Masters,

but everything associated with her career.

And he attaches the documents and the evidence to prove it.

This document appears to show that Taylor and Big Machine

were negotiating terms upon which she could acquire ownership

of her Master recordings,

notwithstanding the public comments of Taylor that

she was never offered such a right.

[Neama reading]

...went over this document in great detail

and reported the terms to her in great detail.

[Howard]Taylor and I then walked through the deal together.

As you will read, 100% of all Taylor Swift assets

were to be transferred to her immediately

upon signing the new agreement.

But it's clear that Big Machine is putting

these documents out to show

that they were willing to give Taylor back ownership of the Masters,

the thing that she claims that she wanted,

but that it appears that they didn't come to terms

on what the terms of that return of the Masters to her would be.

I completely understand where she was coming from.

You know, I think the Beatles probably felt the same way

when Michael Jackson bought their publishing. Um...

The person who owned Taylor's Masters

throughout her career was not myself.

And when I was buying a record label,

I actually said to that group at any point,

if she comes back and wants to be part of this conversation,

please let me know because I wouldn't do this deal.

Um, I was shown a email that's been out public now

where she stated that she had decided to move on

from that negotiation and wasn't interested in doing that deal anymore.

So I thought at the time, "Okay, I'm in the clear,

let's do this deal."

[Marina] Taylor Swift did try to buy her Masters

and for whatever reason, it didn't happen.

So it went on an open market

and the studio found Scooter to be the worthy buyer

and they have all the rights to do that.

It's their money that they're trying to recoup.

[Zing] What was less reported at the time that she signed with

Big Machine is that her dad also purchased a stake

in Big Machine.

So he purchased a reported 3% stake for the cost

of something around $120,000, which meant that Taylor's dad

was also involved in the running of Big Machine as a minority shareholder.

[Neama]What's interesting is that it's revealed that Scott Swift

made $15.1 million when Big Machine

was sold to Scooter Braun.

This adds a new dimension, and people ask,

how could it be possible that Taylor didn't know

what was happening when her father was a shareholder of the Big Machine?

[Nola] Big Machine claimed that Taylor would have had

an idea about the deal because her dad, Scott,

told his daughter about it or gave her some warning.

Taylor's camp have always argued that this isn't the case,

that Scott chose not to be on certain phone calls,

and so he'd never have to lie to his daughter on the call.

[cars honking]

[Zing] It's important to note that a lot of Taylor's early success,

you know, her ability to pursue music

from a young age is because she also had a really supportive family

who were also quite moneyed, quite upper middle class.

Her dad is a Merrill Lynch banker

and asks to be transferred from Pennsylvania

to the Nashville office of Merrill Lynch

just so that when she's a kid, she can start working

the music industry.

I can't think of very many singers who,

when they signed their first record deal,

their dad was in the position to buy a minority stake

in that record label.

So I think she comes from a kind of background

where she was given a leg up in many ways.

She's a very talented songwriter,

but there are tons and tons of talented songwriters all over the world.

Not all of them will have a dad who works in banking

and has the kind of financial clout

to be able to move all the way across the country to Nashville

just to make sure that they can support their kid's career.

[Dr. Jennifer]I think we're living in a really scary time

for creativity and music in particular.

And Taylor Swift is an example of every single thing

lining up perfectly for you.

There are less and less and less opportunities

for kind of, if you would, the old fashioned system,

the system that saw people like Elton John, Blondie,

Bruce Springsteen,

people that were really reflecting

the working class issues and problems.

[upbeat music playing]

[Nola] Eric Logan is a board member on Big Machine Records.

And what's important to note about him is the fact that

he's been on the board for Big Machine since

the beginning.

So he's someone that has literally watched Taylor's career grow

and will know her well because of that.

Eric actually released a statement in which

he called Taylor out and was fighting back

against her claims and kind of hinted that

she was playing a victim game

and creating this victim narrative over

something that was more complicated

and was a business deal and wasn't,

you know, some bullying attack against her.

This is Eric's statement.

"Somewhere you have told yourself that you have the right

to reframe any story you want to fix with

any narrative you wish.

I'm not going to sit on the sidelines and allow you

to rewrite history and bend the truth to justify your lack

of understanding of a business deal.

You knew about this deal.

You knew what you were walking away from.

So please stop lying."

[all cheering]

After Taylor released that Tumblr blog,

it became more than just Taylor versus Scooter.

It really kind of set a light under the whole industry.

You had Kelly Clarkson tweeting Taylor like,

hey, maybe rerecord your music.

You had Halsey saying that Taylor is the artist that

made me want to be a songwriter.

How can she not own her work?

And on the flip side, there were people speaking out for Scooter as well.

Justin Bieber, Demi Lovato kind of spoke out

in his support.

And it was a really interesting time

because it really took on a world of its own.

[Zing] You know, it became something that is much more

than just a contractual dispute.

This became very much a public dispute.

[Dr. Jennifer]One thing that's really interesting about

the Taylor Swift phenomena is everything seems

so perfectly curated to help control perfectly

what the story and the brand is of Taylor Swift.

And one fantastic example of that is in 2019,

where she appears at the Billboard Women in Music Awards.

She's actually there to pick up an award

as Women of the Decade.

This just happened to me without my approval,

consultation, or consent.

After I was denied the chance to purchase my music outright,

my entire catalog was sold to Scooter Braun's Ithaca Holdings.

It was an opportunity where she could have really

used it to truthfully, authentically

be celebrating women and being humble that she,

at such a young age, is being even given this award

and honor, but instead she used it again

to throw a bomb at her enemy.

And the thing that is, I think,

really a wee bit troubling about it.

When you actually look at the contents of what she says,

peppered throughout are words

that really conflate sexual violence

with issues that she's having with business.

She uses the word consent,

and this is at the height of

the Me Too era.

[all cheering]

[Lucas] Taylor Swift, even in her music,

has always been very adept at playing the victim.

I think there are moments in which she truly has been a victim,

but a lot of her music is about the guys that

she's been with and how they've wronged her,

how they've been crappy.

[Rachel] I think there are a number of points along Taylor's timeline

that point to certain themes coming up again and again

in order to create a narrative that I am the wronged party

and someone is trying to hurt me.

[Nola] Throughout her career, Taylor Swift has had a history

of kind of feuding with others and having grievances with other people,

whether it was because of relationships or like

friendships have gone wrong or business dealings

that she doesn't like or hasn't been happy with.

[upbeat music playing]

Really interesting time was Taylor Swift's feud

with Katy Perry because that was almost like the first time

she had an issue with a woman in the industry.

[Dr. Jennifer]The Taylor Swift song, "Bad Blood," it's been rumored

that it's about Katy Perry.

And the origin of this was a beef they had about

some backup dancers.

[Nola] Suddenly, she had an issue with Katy Perry

and she built up this girl squad

of famous celebs, creates the Bad Blood video

with all her superstar besties.

♪ Now we got problems And I don't think we can solve them ♪

♪ You made a really deep cut And baby♪

♪ Now we got bad blood Hey ♪

[Dr. Jennifer]That's the whole thing.

This idea of victimhood and changing the narrative,

it really is alarming.

You watch the Bad Blood video,

and at first, the first run-through, you're like, 'Yeah,

you go get that." This is a bunch of badass women, powerful.

It almost has a Kill Bill,kind of Uma Thurman vibe to it.

But then I'm sitting there thinking about this,

and I'm like, she's literally being violent

in this video with guns.

It has almost like a Mean Girls vibe to it, like,

I'm getting my posse to come kick your butt.

It just almost to me seemed like it was encouraging

a violence towards people that you do not get on with,

whether it's a violence in words, like bullying,

or it's an actual physical violence with guns and blood.

And it made me quite sad, actually, to watch the video.

The music industry as a machine is bad enough

to women without women pitting against each other.

At the time, it did kind of make me pause

just a bit, like, "This is mean."

This isn't nice. This is kind of isolating someone.

Over an issue regarding backing dancers,

it felt like a very strong way to react.

It had an impact on Katie's career.

[man] Taylor...

[Zing] I would say that when Taylor starts being able to use narrative

to her advantage, really comes into play with

Kanye and the VMAs.

Yo, Taylor.

I'm really happy for you. I'mma let you finish.

But Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time.

-[crowd cheering] -[mouths] Oh, my God.

[Dr. Jennifer] I think you had to have a heart of stone

not to feel terrible for her for that happening.

And it was wrong that he did that.

However, I also think that yes, she was already a big star,

but she was a big star with a niche population

of the music buying public.

And it shows how powerful the machine behind Taylor

was even then, because they saw that

as an opportunity to put out this narrative

and start positioning her as this vulnerable yet strong person.

[Zing] Here's this poor young girl who's

had her chance to shine taken away by someone else.

And I think that really set into motion a lot of narratives

that still surround Taylor today.

This idea of being the victim of larger forces beyond her control,

of needing to get revenge somehow,

it really just supercharged her career

and it really exploded her in the public eye.

[indistinct chatter]

So if you fast forward to 2016,

Kanye West releases a song on his new album

called "Famous," which goes, "I think me and Taylor still might have sex.

Why I made that bitch famous."

[Lucas] Taylor Swift is very upset about this,

and she claims that Kanye did not ask for her approval.

Be careful with the car! Be careful with the car!

[Lucas] Kim Kardashian leaks a phone recording

between Kanye and Taylor Swift in which it does appear that

Kanye tells Taylor and Taylor seems to be okay with it.

"To all my South Side snickers that know me best,

I feel like Taylor Swift might owe me sex."

[Taylor laughs on phone]

- [Taylor] That's not mean. -Okay.

Yeah. Well, this is the thing where I'm calling you

because you've got an army.

You own a country of motherfucking two billion people.

It is very dark, but you can obviously see it's Kanye West.

You can hear it's Taylor Swift.

She sounds happy that he's even asking her.

It's so funny, because you think of Kanye

as being all powerful, lawyered up to the eyeballs,

huge management machine behind him.

He looks like a teenage boy calling a girl for the first time.

"Ooh, please will you go out with me?"

Like he looks so scared and so timid,

not like one of the most influential rappers we've had.

He just wants her so badly to approve and be okay with

what it is he wants to create.

The thing about Taylor in the Kanye context

is it makes her an unreliable witness.

She would have just come out straight and go, "Ooh, you know what?

We did talk about it. I was really flattered that

he was going to do a song about me. It sounded great.

But I didn't know about the use of the B word,

that that was going to be in there." Done.

[Nola]Taylor's feud with Kanye has played a large part

in why she's so upset about Scooter.

I have often wondered if he hadn't been a manager for Kanye,

would she have been as upset?

Would she have claimed the bullying

and made the accusation about him just trying

to dismantle her career?

[camera shutters clicking]

[Lucas]That Sunday night after Taylor issued her Tumblr post,

Scooter's wife at the time, Yael,

issued a long post on Instagram defending her husband,

pointing out that she was upset at Scooter

because of his history with Kanye West.

She also suggested that Taylor's criticism

of her husband was unfair and all he was doing

was trying to do a good business deal

and he'd be happy to have involved her.

[Alex]Whether you find Scooter likable or not,

there's no denying that he wants to do some good in the world.

And in the midst of my reporting with Scooter,

something horrific happens.

[sirens wailing]

[crowd cheering]

The One Love concert showed the very best

of what Scooter Braun can be.

He was trying to do right by his artist,

he was trying to do good for the world,

and use music to reach out to people.

As unfortunately we saw yesterday, evil will test us.

It will show its face again.

But because of you, we can now represent through

this as a worldwide community that we will be ready,

we will be fearless, we will be great,

and we will honor our children.

[all cheering]

[Alex] He was very emotional about the bombing.

As much as his voice broke on stage,

it also broke when he was talking about it.

It was a very raw, real moment.

After some years, it's easy to forget how important that was,

especially to the people who were there,

and how much he put into moving heaven and earth

to get this to happen.

I forgot how much he talked about kids

and how I think it made him think about his own children.

He's a guy who really, really cares about his family.

[text notification chimes]

[upbeat music playing]

[crowd cheering]

[Neama]Taylor's announcement of the re-recording

takes this dispute to a whole new level

and begs the question, is she going out of her way

to devalue the deal that was struck between Big Machine

and Scooter Braun?

There is such a concept in American law

as good faith dealing that says that if you struck

a bargain, you know, you have to act accordingly

and not undermine the bargain and do not devalue it.

So from his point of view, I have a contract that says

"I own these rights now."

And you go around it and rerecord it,

and all he did was purchase the rights legally.

Why would you ever take a chance on an unknown artist

and invest all this money if then they could turn around

and undermine their contract that way?

So I actually believe that what she has done

is kind of a disservice to unknown artists out there

because it would be this much harder now

to persuade the studios to take the chance

and make all this investment.

[Neama]Taylor claims that Big Machine and Scooter Braun

are preventing her from using her music,

both in a Netflix documentary and at the AMAs,

where Taylor is set to perform and win the Artist of the Decade Award.

Taylor's Big Machine contract contained a re-record clause,

which was typical in the industry.

That prohibited Taylor from re-recording

any of her Masters during the term of her agreement,

plus an additional two years.

Taylor says that Scooter Braun is claiming that

the performance would be a re-recording of her music

before the expiration of her re-recording restriction.

[Zing] Big Machine then post a follow-up to say,

we don't have the right to tell you not to perform those songs.

Again, people are starting to think,

you know, what is Taylor fudging here?

You know, what is the truth of the matter?

-[all clamoring] -Back up.

[man] Love you, Taylor.

[Lucas]Taylor Swift's comments ahead of the AMAs

telling her fans to voice their frustrations

to Scooter Braun and Scott Borchetta

kicked up a whole other cycle of press around this.

[Rachel] Tell Scott and Scooter how you feel.

If you know Taylor Swift's fan base

and the fervency behind her fandom,

one could imagine any number of reactions.

[Zing]Fandom sometimes can take a very dark turn.

It can turn into abusive messages,

abusive posts, trolling.

[Lucas]Swifties and the Taylor Swift fans are probably one of

the most powerful constituencies on Earth.

[indistinct chatter]

You have these very rabid fans who are cult-like

and who think that she can do no wrong.

[all chattering indistinctly]

[Rachel]Scooter Braun, his family,

his coworkers, Scott Borchetta,

the employees at Big Machine,

they were all harassed.

If you were in any way associated professionally

with these two men, then you were made

a target online by Taylor Swift's fan base

as a direct result of her asking her fans

to tell Scooter and Scott how you feel about this.

[Lucas]The vitriol directed in Scooter's direction

almost immediately, as well as his wife, was pretty gnarly.

[Dr. Jennifer]When the hashtag, I stand with Taylor,

was trending, you know, there was Swiftie saying,

let's go to his house and, like, cut his neck in half.

She had enormous cultural clout.

She had enormous social power.

[Rachel] Taylor Swift has 282 million Instagram followers,

and that is a lot of people.

That includes some people who are anonymous,

they have fan accounts, and that level of anonymity

can embolden people to make threats.

Pile-on effect can be very dangerous,

whether physically or just mentally,

to the person who they're going against.

I myself have experienced that kind of pile on

from Swiftie fandom.

And I love Taylor Swift is the greatest irony,

but sent out a tweet commenting on something that

Taylor said in a Grammy acceptance speech

a few years ago, and was being told

I should slit my wrists.

Every corner of the internet that I could be found,

I was getting harassed.

And this is just for a tweet.

I can love Taylor Swift and love her music,

but at the same time, no one is immune to criticism.

This was the biggest story in the music business for months,

and everyone was wondering when Scooter was going

to say something.

He posted online saying that this had led to death threats

and that he was concerned for the security of his family

and that he really wanted her to stop.

The only thing I disagree with is weaponizing a fan base.

The artists I work with have very large fan bases.

You don't do that. It's very dangerous.

There's people within that fan base who have mental health issues.

There's families involved, and I think that's very, very dangerous.

[Nola]Scooter actually did say, some of your fans

are threatening the lives of my children.

Can you call them off? And she never did.

[Lucas] He became an internet villain, right?

To go from being this sort of celebrated manager

who seems to be the friend to the artist

and a business genius to being seen as the villain

on the internet, I think was pretty tough for him.

[announcer on PA]Morning call, passengers, please--

[soft music playing]

[Zing]Scooter sells Big Machine and Taylor's Masters

to Shamrock, which is a private equity group owned by Disney.

And what that means is that Disney now own the Masters,

but Scooter introduces a clause into the sale,

which means that he still profits off

whatever money the Masters makes.

[Lucas] Shamrock Capital paid hundreds of millions of dollars

just for the Taylor Swift Masters.

And this kicked off a whole other cycle

of acrimony and criticism because Taylor felt that,

again, someone else was getting rich off of her work.

And there was this whole back and forth about whether

Taylor had been given the opportunity to buy them or not.

[Neama] Taylor claims that she was offered the opportunity

to buy back her catalog, but she had to sign an NDA

that was more like a gag order that prevented her from

ever saying anything bad about Scooter Braun.

[Lucas]She posted on Twitter saying that had had conversations

about buying the Masters, but that Scooter would

only sell them to her if she signed

a non-disclosure agreement guaranteeing that

she would not criticize him publicly,

which she did not want to do.

[all] Taylor.

[photographer] Yes, Taylor! Right here, Taylor! Beautiful!

Straight ahead, Taylor!

These are some emails that were shared by Scooter's team.

Scooter Braun's team counters that in November 2019,

Taylor's management company signed an NDA,

but it seems to be a typical NDA that has

no restrictions on Taylor commenting on Scooter Braun.

-Hey, congrats on all the success. -Thank you.

Everything you've done...

I was always open to selling back people their catalogs

along the way at a fair market value.

And I did present that. I don't speak about this publicly

because I think people have said certain things.

Those narratives aren't necessarily true.

All artists have royalties coming to them from their Masters.

And if they want an opportunity to buy them,

they should have that opportunity.

And I'm completely open to that conversation.

You need to be able to sit in front of someone and have dialogue.

And what you can't do

is say that you want something and then never ever sit down

at the table to have an actual dialogue.

-[photographer] Looking beautiful, girl. -[man] Taylor, Taylor.

[Howard] I don't see it as a legal dispute at all.

I think it's the framing of the narrative.

With Taylor, it's this really interesting phenomenon

where she's the victim, but has also always been

the winner as well at the same time.

Like, ultimately, she always prospers.

And it's just something I don't think

we've really seen with anyone else,

where something awful happens to her or she feels wronged

or slighted,

but she always kind of gets her revenge.

And she's even joked about it herself.

She's said it in her songs, Karma,

"Look What You Made Me Do."

She literally will sit and plot her revenge.

And when it's executed, it's flawless.

[all cheering]

[Marina]I don't think there is any time in music history

where someone went back and rerecorded hit albums

only for them to become hit again.

And this is actually an homage of, you know,

how much Taylor Swift's fans really rally for her.

[all cheering]

[Mikael] The re-recordings have in many cases done better

in a commercial sense than the original records.

No one's ever heard of that. That's an entirely new achievement.

So that's what we're doing.

So when something says in parentheses,

"Taylor's Version" next to it, that means I own it,

-which is exciting. -[all cheering]

[Howard]I'm not sure anybody anticipated, A,

that she would do this to the extent she did,

B, that she would do it so well, and C,

that it would be so popular.

That came to light to me when I was driving around

three 16-year-old girls with my daughter,

and they were talking because they were listening to

a Taylor Version of a song.

And one of the girls said, we won't listen to

the other music because some bad man stole that from her.

I didn't say a word, but I thought, good marketing.

She's done a great job here.

Her fans believe that they're being disloyal

if they listen to the original music.

I do think that some combination of the fight

with Scooter and the way she handled that

and the way she then got perceived as a victim

and the re-recording of the albums

just completely changed the trajectory of her career.

[upbeat music playing]

[woman]I love Taylor ever since I was a little girl,

and I love her music, and I think her Eras tour

is like the best concert ever.

I've been waiting to see her since I was 10.

We're here for Taylor Swift!

[Mikael] The scale of Taylor's success,

it just keeps redefining itself.

The Eras tour is now, by most estimates,

the biggest pop tour that's ever been mounted.

[Brittany]We've seen Taylor's influence grow immensely.

Something has sort of shifted where Taylor has become

the foremost public figure in the world.

[all] We love you, Taylor!

[Mikael] We can debate sort of who is the winner of

the business war here.

There are arguments to be made on both sides.

But if you're talking about who won the emotional battle,

who won the sort of moral feud,

it seems clear to me that in the court of public opinion,

Taylor Swift was the winner.

When I'm analyzing the case, she's not going to win in the courtroom.

She doesn't have a good court case,

but she like completely destroyed him in the PR world.

Does it fundamentally make him a pauper? No, it doesn't.

He's still very, very rich.

But I think what the impact of this whole feud

has been on his reputation in the music industry

is that he's now kind of been tarnished reputationally

from this scrap with Taylor.

It did hurt because...

The day before it happened, I had never had

any negative news about me in our entire industry.

I never had an issue with anybody.

And then suddenly overnight, because someone said something,

I was a bully.

[upbeat music playing]

♪ Tell my soul Only love forgives ♪

♪ Only love forgives Tell my soul♪

♪ Only love forgives Only love forgives ♪

♪ Tell my soul♪

♪ Only love Only love forgives ♪