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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,162 WWW.MY-SUBS.COM 1 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:55,440 Boy is that ever incendiary, right? 2 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,000 Yeah. Jesus Christ. 3 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:58,120 Yes, it is. 4 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,360 That's just an outrage. 5 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,920 That's just a fucking outrage. 6 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:10,840 Hey, how are you? 7 00:01:11,320 --> 00:01:13,200 We just got their autopsy report. 8 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:15,640 Give me your fax number, so I can fax it to you. 9 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:18,160 Yes, ma'am. 10 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:20,160 Right. 11 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,400 Eight-seven-two-two. I'll fax it right now, and then... 12 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,040 I'll call you back. 13 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:32,040 Oh, Jesus. 14 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:36,080 Me again. 15 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:37,960 I wanna fax... 16 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:39,760 We just got the autopsy report. 17 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,320 Can I fax it to you? Are you at your office? 18 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,200 I have to go back to court at 2:30, 19 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,600 and the press is trying to unseal this thing, 20 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,480 so I need to talk with you some before 2:30. 21 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:54,880 OK. 22 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,400 I'll get it to you right away. 23 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:58,800 Thank you. Bye-bye. 24 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,640 Hey Faris, I got this autopsy on this Germany thing. 25 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,120 As soon as you take a look at it, would you call me? 26 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:15,000 Well, they concluded these injuries were a result of a homicidal attack, 27 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,320 so I need for you to take a look at this. 28 00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:23,840 Let me call Butts about this language. This is just... 29 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,360 I mean, I've read... How many autopsies have we read? 30 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:27,840 I've never seen that. 31 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:28,840 Never. 32 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,160 Hi, is John Butts around, please? 33 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:34,240 Thank you. 34 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:36,280 Dave Rudolf. 35 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:38,720 I got a question for you. 36 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:43,080 I've read 260 autopsies from blunt trauma to the head, 37 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,640 and never once did I see any of your people say, 38 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,880 "The inflicted trauma is clearly from a homicidal assault." 39 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:58,920 Alright, well, could you call me... 40 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,120 Could you call me back after you get done? 41 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:02,440 Yeah, I appreciate it. 42 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:03,520 Thanks. 43 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:09,800 Outrageous. 44 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:22,640 I just know that my mom died in '85. 45 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,320 I think it was the winter of '85. 46 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:27,840 And... 47 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:30,760 she, she... 48 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,480 I know that she died of a brain hemorrhage. 49 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:35,920 She had been having many headaches before. 50 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,640 I mean, there's people, many people have said this, 51 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,680 that she called her mother, complaining of headaches. 52 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,120 She hated doctors, like I don't like doctors, either. 53 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,800 Neither does Martha. Um... 54 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,240 So she didn't want to go see one, no matter how much, you know, 55 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:56,360 Dad... Mike and Patty, I guess, told her to go. 56 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,160 And she basically died 57 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,240 before she even hit the bottom of the stairs. 58 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,240 And I think it's interesting, 59 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,200 you know, that they both were found at the bottom of the stairs, 60 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:11,640 but at the same time, 61 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,360 the two things they had in common, besides being my mothers, 62 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,320 were that Dad loved them both very, very, very much, 63 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,720 and he would have never, ever, hurt either of them, 64 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,320 so I think that's what they have in common more than anything malicious. 65 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:29,040 So... 66 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,880 The autopsy report released this afternoon 67 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,760 details how this woman died more than a decade ago. 68 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,560 The Ratliff autopsy report says her fatal wounds 69 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,680 appear to be the result of several blows to the head, 70 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,000 injuries that happened while Ratliff was still alive. 71 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,520 Those injuries came from a homicidal assault. 72 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:48,920 That's inflammatory. 73 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,280 That's not a doctor... That's what a jury determines. 74 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,440 Now, the Peterson defense team hopes 75 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,520 this report will not prejudice potential jurors. 76 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:00,400 Alright, it gets curiouser and curiouser. 77 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:05,320 You can read the entire autopsy report on our website at abc11tv.com. 78 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,720 I've had one of my biggest fuckings in court ever. 79 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,680 The judge unsealed all this stuff. 80 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,880 You know, this new autopsy... The headlines tonight are: 81 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,440 "Homicidal Assault." Just outrageous. 82 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:24,680 Anyway, 83 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,440 I think I'm gonna need to call these people as witnesses on Wednesday, 84 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,040 and I think I'm gonna need your presence here to help me cross-examine them. 85 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:34,680 Yeah, and we're gonna have to... 86 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,560 You know, I'm gonna have to cross-examine them pretty vigorously, 87 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,080 I think, so yes. 88 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,000 Yes, I want you to be there when he testifies, 89 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,680 so that we can cross-examine him. 90 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:46,440 Alright? 91 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,680 Well, if this is admitted the way it stands, 92 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,200 the one that we got from the Chapel Hill medical examiner... 93 00:05:53,280 --> 00:05:55,480 - Well, keep in mind it's not... - Will that hurt your case? 94 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:56,600 This doesn't get admitted. 95 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,080 Somebody's gonna have to get up on the witness stand and testify. 96 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,720 And that's really sorta the unfairness of this current procedure. 97 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,760 You know, what gets released to the public right now 98 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,960 is simply a one-sided report 99 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,160 that we haven't had a chance to ask any questions about. 100 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,720 And I think that's part of the problem here, 101 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,200 is that, you know, 102 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,280 all that gets put into the news media 103 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,200 is you know, a fairly inflammatory statement 104 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:31,720 that is completely unnecessary to the autopsy findings, 105 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:33,840 and was just sorta gratuitous, 106 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,320 and you know I don't blame you guys. I mean, it was put in there 107 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,240 because that's exactly what you guys would gravitate to. 108 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,680 Those aren't really lined up the way... 109 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,360 They're not anything like Kathleen's. 110 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,240 They are, interestingly enough, mainly curved in some way. 111 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:48,960 I don't know the significance of that. 112 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,600 This one, this one, this one are depicted as curved. 113 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,080 This is kind of curved with a split. 114 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,960 - And Kathleen's... - That's really kinda unique. 115 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,760 It's almost like something... 116 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,720 Right, I don't know what causes curvature, for example. 117 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,440 Is that indicative of something? 118 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,000 I don't think Kathleen's had that kind of consistent... 119 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,280 Let's get her autopsy. 120 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:20,480 That's that's the same? 121 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,120 The truth is these are spread out more. 122 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,040 You've got the top and head, you've got here. You've got the left. 123 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,600 You've also got bruising on the back and neck, which to me, 124 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,480 - would be indicative of falling. - Falling, right. 125 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,360 I mean, how do you bang somebody on the top of the head? 126 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:37,400 Right. 127 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,880 But that's why they have to say it's either or. 128 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,960 Right, except for then, they admitted that, scientifically, 129 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:45,440 you can't tell the difference. 130 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,760 So these could have been caused by the head hitting a surface, 131 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,320 as opposed to, you know, some kind of instrument, so what... 132 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,800 You know, this is supposed to be a signature thing. 133 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:57,440 You know it's supposed to... 134 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,600 There's supposed to be some way in which these are similar. 135 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,480 How does one... other than the fact that they're both... 136 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,880 found at the bottom of stairs? 137 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:26,320 You get a false impression. 138 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,360 I think a misleading impression from the... 139 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,440 Yeah, I was surprised, when I saw the photographs, 140 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,600 how close together they were. 141 00:08:32,680 --> 00:08:33,960 Those look like... 142 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:36,080 pattern injuries, 143 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,080 or crescent-shaped things from some sort of instrument. 144 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,440 When you look at the photographs, I don't get that impression at all. 145 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:43,520 No, I don't at all. 146 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,880 Yeah, looking at the sketch, this... It doesn't work for me. 147 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,480 I mean, the pictures... 148 00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:05,880 That's the record, the sketch is just simply that, 149 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,800 but I don't think they truly reflect... 150 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,880 very well, what is in these pictures. 151 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:18,720 Here, the correspondence, 152 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,680 I mean, if that's what they're relying on 153 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,200 to reconstruct and to draw conclusions on, 154 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,440 this is very misleading. 155 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,200 - The diagram's very misleading. - 'Cause these look like they're linear, 156 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:32,880 curvilinear and simple. 157 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,120 These are not simple, they're very complex, 158 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,200 and when you do this sort of thing, 159 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:43,160 what sort of impacts produce scalp lacerations like that? 160 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,120 - Yeah. - Probably not blows. 161 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,040 I mean, what instrument would do that? 162 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:48,000 I see. 163 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:49,600 These are more clear, 164 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,120 I think more characteristic of impacts where the skin just the splits. 165 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:55,040 Right. 166 00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:00,000 Well, the hearing tomorrow on Ratliff, 167 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,840 I think, is probably the most important hearing, 168 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,880 may very well be the most important day in court 169 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,040 that we have in this entire case. 170 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,440 I think that the evidence about the death in Germany, 171 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,280 if it comes in, will have a substantial impact, 172 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:23,720 even subconsciously on how the jurors evaluate the evidence in this case. 173 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,000 Even though there's not a shred of evidence 174 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,040 that Michael had anything to do with Elizabeth Ratliff's death, 175 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,040 the mere fact that it comes in evidence will have an impact. 176 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,880 So my view is that if we win the motion tomorrow, 177 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,440 and keep the Ratliff evidence out, because it's not relevant. 178 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,280 This is not a technicality. 179 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:47,320 Because it's not relevant, 180 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,000 and because the State can't show that it's relevant, 181 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,000 we will have a very good chance of winning this trial, 182 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,400 because the rest of the evidence, I think, 183 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:58,880 is pretty minimal. 184 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,000 Well, what we've done is, we've subpoenaed their witnesses. 185 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,280 We've subpoenaed Deborah Radisch and some of the other doctors 186 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:19,640 who have done the autopsies, 187 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,400 and we want to put them on the stand 188 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,720 and force them to do more than just give their bare conclusions. 189 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,960 Their reports are very bare-bones. 190 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,880 What we want to do is, we want to get them on the stand 191 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,200 and be able to ask them the hard questions 192 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,360 that they don't address in their reports to show 193 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,880 that the basis of their conclusions is simply flawed. 194 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,240 This is the kind of evidence that can really prejudice 195 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,000 and taint a trial unfairly. 196 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,360 It's the kind of evidence that... 197 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,160 courts have traditionally said you just don't let in. 198 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,680 In my opinion, the '85 death... 199 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,920 If the State tried to introduce evidence of that in the Court, 200 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,400 it could come in any number of ways, 201 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,240 for which I will listen to arguments about. 202 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:22,560 Has the State filed a motion to have the Court consider Miss Ratliff's death? 203 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,160 We are not a proponent of that evidence at this point, 204 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:32,320 and will not be until the Court actually is involved in this trial 205 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,880 and begins hearing evidence of all these matters. 206 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:36,800 Judge... 207 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,480 two weeks ago or three weeks ago, 208 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,200 you sat there and agreed 209 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,560 that this was an issue, 210 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,640 - particularly Ratliff. - It is an issue. 211 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,600 But that has to be decided 212 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,760 before jury selection for very good reasons. 213 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,720 I'm not aware of any law 214 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,680 that the Court can direct the State to do that. 215 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,760 - Now what the Court can do... - I mean, I can... 216 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,440 I'm not sure there's North Carolina State law 217 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,120 that the Court can order the State to do... 218 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,000 I don't think you can order them to do that. 219 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,800 What you can do, is say, "If you don't file the notice 220 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,240 and have the hearing today, 221 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,880 you're not going to be allowed to introduce that evidence, 222 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,280 because it's prejudicial to the defense." 223 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,240 Let's just look at this from a practical perspective. 224 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,040 If I don't know whether or not that's coming in, 225 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:28,560 I've got to assume it is, 226 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,320 and therefore, I'm going to spend lots of time in opening statement 227 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,240 talking to the jurors about that, finding out what they think, 228 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,000 and talking about the facts and all that stuff. 229 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:39,920 So now all of a sudden, 230 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,400 Mr. Hardin says, "Judge, I'm sorry. 231 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,080 We're not going to introduce." 232 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,840 Now, are you going to instruct the jury to disregard everything that I said 233 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,080 in my opening statement? 234 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:53,800 How is that... 235 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,000 How are you gonna instruct them to disregard what I said, 236 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,920 and have me maintain my credibility with a jury 237 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:02,960 that is deciding my client's life? 238 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,920 I believe, frankly, it would be ineffective assistance of counsel 239 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,440 for him not to deal with it, 240 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,160 whether the evidence is admissible or not, 241 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,440 because it's out there, the news media spent three or four days 242 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:21,240 using the same footage of the exhumation down in Texas. 243 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,280 It's still going on up until this morning, 244 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,040 which raises another question about all of these interviews 245 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,360 that Mr. Rudolf likes to give to the media about the evidence. 246 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,040 My client wanted this trial to proceed for a long time 247 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,440 The DA delayed that exhumation 248 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,160 for months and months and months. 249 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:47,280 Now, two weeks before or three weeks before trial, 250 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,840 he decides to go ahead with an exhumation, 251 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,800 and that is simply unfair. 252 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,800 He did it intentionally. 253 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:57,280 He did it knowingly. 254 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,560 He stands here, and talks sanctimoniously 255 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,680 about how I'm talking to the press... 256 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,880 in response to a medical examiner's report... 257 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,840 - I knew you were gonna bring that up. - Yeah. 258 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:15,680 That gratuitously uses the term "homicidal attack," or "assault," 259 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:21,000 and I'm supposed to sit back and allow my client to be prejudiced by that. 260 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,000 And by this show that he's put together. 261 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,320 And just sit back and do nothing? 262 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,160 The Court declines Mr. Rudolf, in its discretion, to... 263 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:43,800 determine the admissibility of the death of Miss Ratliff... 264 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,200 today and pre-trial. 265 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,720 The Court, in its discretion, will rule on its admissibility 266 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,720 when proffered by the State of North Carolina 267 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,160 as evidence in this particular case. 268 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,200 You know, I subpoenaed all three medical examiners, 269 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,280 and was prepared to cross-examine all of them... 270 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:09,840 - Today? - Today! 271 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:15,760 So why is it that it's OK for them to write reports 272 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,440 that have conclusions like "homicidal assault," 273 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,960 and yet not have to get up on a witness stand today? 274 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,320 What is his sexual preference? 275 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,240 What is whose sexual preference? Mr. Hardin's? 276 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:29,800 Your client's, not Mr. Hardin's. 277 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:31,680 I don't know what Mr. Hardin's is. 278 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,200 You know, would you really expect... What's your sexual preference? 279 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,720 - Come on. - Your guy's on trial, I'm not. 280 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,480 We can check that. 281 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,840 Actually, I'm not going to answer those kind of questions. 282 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,280 Where's my client? 283 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,040 You want to sit in the dining room, or out here? 284 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,680 - Out here is fine. - Wherever is... 285 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:07,440 Get out. You, go! 286 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,520 - Get me a Diet Coke. - Yeah. Go, out, get out. 287 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:14,800 Where the hell is the silverware? 288 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,560 That drawer on the right. 289 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,560 In one of the top, bottom, second drawer. 290 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:21,840 This second drawer? 291 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,240 I keep the hot pads and the other stuff in the top drawer. 292 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,200 He keeps it right underneath the cupboard with the bloody fingerprints. 293 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,600 There is no doubt in my mind 294 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:32,960 that those two guys knew exactly 295 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,000 what was gonna happen before that hearing started. 296 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,000 I mean, the little speech that Orlando did at the beginning. 297 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:42,960 You know Hardin, it wasn't... 298 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,200 You know, he didn't say to Hardin, "Alright, you know, what are you... 299 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,680 What are you talking about? We're here for a hearing. 300 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:51,040 You know? 301 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,080 What do you mean, 'you don't think we got to go forward'? I mean... 302 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,520 on Monday, we sat here for three... 303 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,800 All day talking about whether this hearing should be closed or not. 304 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:01,440 You didn't say anything then." 305 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,280 I just don't understand that. I mean, what's in it for Judge Hudson? 306 00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:05,640 - To cooperate... - You know... 307 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,640 There's gotta be a payoff somewhere. That's all I can say. 308 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,480 I don't know what it is, but there's something in it for him. 309 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,320 There's something, maybe there's a blowjob in it for him. I don't know. 310 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,160 Do you have any doubt that this was collusion? 311 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,840 It struck me as being scripted. 312 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:24,800 It was just choreographed. 313 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:26,560 It was completely choreographed. 314 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,920 I've been in front of lots of judges, 315 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,240 with lots of prosecutors, in lots of situations, 316 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:34,120 and I've gotta tell you, 317 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,640 I have never ever seen something like that before. Never. 318 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,480 I don't think David, and I don't think Tom believed me, 319 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,040 or anybody from the beginning, 320 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,520 but when I said, "This isn't Chapel Hill, 321 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,320 This isn't Raleigh, this isn't Charlotte. 322 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,320 This isn't... This is Durham. 323 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,400 It's unique, it's particular. 324 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,120 It's dirty. It's corrupt. It's small. 325 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,760 I don't think anybody knows this town better than I do. And I... 326 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,920 That's what I did for years, and I told you guys from the beginning... 327 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,640 - No, you did. - This is it. 328 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,440 I've had a personal relationship with Orlando for years, 329 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,920 and it never got through to me 330 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,960 that it could affect him personally in that way. 331 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,000 Yeah, he's... I just find him disgusting, but... 332 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,000 So... 333 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,400 The Ratliff stuff is coming into evidence. 334 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,800 - The gay stuff is coming into evidence. - Sure! 335 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,840 Alright? So we've got to deal with it, no matter what. 336 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,440 You can almost turn this into a challenge to the DA. 337 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,360 We don't know whether it's coming in or not, do we think it's a joke? 338 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,880 But these are the reasons why, if you let you get into that, 339 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,720 if he brings it in, we'll talk about it then. 340 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,080 Then, when it doesn't come in, you look like a hero. 341 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,160 You look like you're real smart. 342 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:48,480 For a change. 343 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:51,800 Be nice. 344 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,600 The moral support here is very important. You know? 345 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,640 This is going to be a long and arduous trial. 346 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,160 - I just want you to know... - He's only got one kidney. 347 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:06,560 I'm sick. 348 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,920 I want you to understand that he makes these comments, 349 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,840 but you're the one who's going to prison. 350 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:23,000 It's coming in. 351 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,640 If it's coming in, and that's a given, 352 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,480 - then that's an assumption. - It's coming in. It's coming in. 353 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,680 If that's the given, then I agree. You've gotta go forward with it. 354 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,480 My presumption right now 355 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,000 is that I'm going to take on 356 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,440 the Ratliff thing in some way, I'm gonna... 357 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,800 in some way, present to the jury 358 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,680 that it's not fair to try this stuff in the media. 359 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:51,280 It's not fair. 360 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:56,360 It's not our way to dig up bodies two weeks before trial, 361 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,560 so that there's a whole bunch of publicity. 362 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,800 That doesn't satisfy anybody's burden of proof. 363 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,280 The only way you satisfy a burden of proof 364 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:07,840 - is by bringing in the witness. - Right. 365 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,560 You have that presumption of innocence and the reasonable doubt. 366 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,120 They've got to overcome that. 367 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,600 The bar on reasonable doubt has been raised significantly now, 368 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:23,080 in the light of the Ratliff, so instead of being there, 369 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,760 which we could play it safe, 370 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,160 "They didn't prove this," there's alternative things. 371 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,040 With this coincidence, it's now up to here. 372 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,320 Anyway, alright, I think we're done. 373 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,360 You know, this was important for you all to be a part of, 374 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,440 so that you know what my thinking is, alright? 375 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,960 I think, this is what our thinking was all along. 376 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,480 OK. Alright. 377 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,440 In terms of look and dress and that tomorrow... 378 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,120 - Right. - Alright? Your... 379 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,960 - eyebrows need to be trimmed... - OK. 380 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,760 - ...you need to be shaved... - Right. 381 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,960 ...you need to look neat, you need to look rested. 382 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,520 - If you need to take a Valium... - Sure. 383 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,520 ...take a Valium, because you know what? 384 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,960 You're not going to be needing to do anything other than zoning. 385 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,920 Right, I know that. Well that's what I was... 386 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,960 - I don't have any Valium. - Well, you know what? 387 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,920 - You don't need to fall asleep. - No, no, no. 388 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,680 And also, the other thing is, you know, 389 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,240 you're gonna probably hear some things that are gonna be hard to hear. 390 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,920 And if somebody says, "Well, we think he's absolutely guilty," 391 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,920 and "Why aren't they seeking the death penalty?" 392 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,720 Why don't we just lynch him right here? 393 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,680 Yeah, you're not gonna send them daggers, 394 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,440 which you don't seem like the kinda person that would do that anyway. 395 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,520 No, and you know, the truth is... 396 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,760 if somebody says that, the... 397 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,800 subliminal message, the body language message needs to be, 398 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,480 "Thank you for being that honest." 399 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,120 The other thing is, is because of the Ratliff thing, 400 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,160 it's very important for Martha and Margaret... 401 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,920 - They've gotta be here. - ...to be here for the whole trial. 402 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:53,520 That worked out really nicely... 403 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,240 Because people have said in the open-ended question, 404 00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:59,240 and one of the reasons they think you might not be guilty, 405 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,600 or that you have doubts, 406 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,280 is that he has proclaimed his innocence, 407 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,800 his lawyer is fighting, saying he's innocent, 408 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,200 - and his family's sticking by him. - Right. 409 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,320 Yeah, we were doing... 410 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,920 one of these corporate exercises with the executive staff, 411 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,600 where you're supposed to tell something personal about yourself. 412 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,720 It's team-building, is what it is. 413 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,400 So one guy got up, actually a very good friend of mine 414 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:25,880 He's since left the company, 415 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,120 but he said, "You know, I always wanted to be a lawyer. 416 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,720 that was really what I wanted to do, 417 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:32,760 but then I found Jesus, 418 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:34,840 and I realized that being a Christian 419 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,120 and being a lawyer are completely incompatible." 420 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:46,360 True. 421 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:49,760 Yep. 422 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:51,280 Oh, God... 423 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,800 So you mean I really gotta shut my mind off now basically for two months? 424 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,000 You can't read a book. 425 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,800 Video games. 426 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,560 I mean, you're just supposed to sit there and look... 427 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,320 And don't stare at the jury. 428 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:10,680 - Don't stare at the jury. - No. 429 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,040 'Cause it looks like you're soliciting them. 430 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,000 They'll be looking at you a lot. That's one thing you have to remember, 431 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,600 That you know, they are assessing your behavior and conduct. 432 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,320 - They form opinions about how you behave. - Dear God. 433 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:25,520 I need a double. 434 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,200 A standard Saddam Hussein double to sit in for me. 435 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:32,960 Oh God. 436 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,800 I could sit in a dark, quiet room for two months. 437 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,400 You know, Goethe used to say that was a test of a man, 438 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,160 that if you could go... 439 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,640 If you could lock a man up in a dark room, 440 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,760 nothing to read nothing to do, nothing. 441 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,280 Just his own thoughts. 442 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,480 That was Goethe's test of a man. 443 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,080 And I think, "Hell, anybody can do that." 444 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,120 I think, "No, he needs to rethink that. The real test of a man 445 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,720 is to be able to sit there and listen to Jim Hardin and Orlando Hudson. 446 00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:17,640 The range just gonna go from 39 to... 447 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:19,800 51. 448 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,520 71, 72. 449 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,040 - 61 to 72. - Right, that's these. 450 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,120 OK, those are in order. 451 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:29,840 And then I'm gonna go through 452 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,480 a whole long thing about the relationship, 453 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:38,600 and I'm going to take them back to 1988, and 1989, and 1992, and 1997, 454 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,200 and then I'm going to say, "And together, 455 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,560 they built a family out of the various strands 456 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,480 of their prior families." 457 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,840 Wait, wait wait, hold on. 458 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,120 I don't want to have that bar up there, 459 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,520 'cause it's gonna distract them from what I'm saying. 460 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,080 Can you just keep it black screen until I go to your cue, 461 00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,800 and then pop up with the picture? 462 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,240 - Right, you want the picture first. Yeah. - The picture. 463 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,160 OK. Let's go back to the black screen. 464 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,000 What is that thing in the middle there? 465 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,520 That's just a default bar that doesn't have to show at all. 466 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,120 - I don't want it showing. - OK. I can't get rid of it right now, 467 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,680 - but I can tonight. Yeah. - OK. Yeah, let's get rid of the bar, 468 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:15,600 OK? 469 00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:19,320 And what I'd like to do is... 470 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:22,920 When I... 471 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,320 It's just my telephone. Sorry. 472 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:35,560 When I say... 473 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:38,440 "Together... 474 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,600 they built a family out of the various strands of their prior families, 475 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,800 - Caitlin"... Wait till I... - I wanna get on the black screen. 476 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,520 That's right. I wanna go black screen. 477 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,680 OK, can you turn it on before I even get up to speak, 478 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,400 and then go to black screen, so we don't have to see that thing again. 479 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:00,320 Black? Do you mean... You mean this? 480 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:01,760 You want that without this. 481 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:02,880 Can you lose that? 482 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,400 Yes, I can lose it. I can't lose it right now, 483 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,480 - but I can lose it. - OK, but what I'm saying is, 484 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:08,960 you can just go... 485 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,720 Can you lose the whole thing so it's just a black screen, 486 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,120 and then it goes to the picture, and then goes back. 487 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,200 - Yes, it looks like that. - Yeah, that's all I want. 488 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,280 - OK. - And then the next picture comes up. 489 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,240 When I say, "Together they built a family 490 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,360 out of the various strands of their prior families," 491 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:24,280 Yeah? 492 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:25,800 I'm leaving. You need anything? 493 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,360 No, we're great. Thank you very much. 494 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:28,440 Good night. 495 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,880 "Out of the various strands of their prior families," 496 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,200 - put it up. - OK, so they have something to look at. 497 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:35,520 - Exactly. - Yep. 498 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:41,400 "We can see that the laceration on the left, the V-shape one... 499 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,480 is consistent with that corner, the last..." 500 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:48,960 - Telephone. - OK. 501 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,400 "The last impact that you saw on that..." 502 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,640 Got a little situation going on. 503 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,760 We've got smoke in the building, downstairs. 504 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,680 So we may want to... You think you can wrap it up for today? 505 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,320 How much longer you think you're gonna be? We may have to do an evacuation. 506 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:07,480 OK. 507 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,360 We don't know yet. We haven't found it yet. 508 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:10,800 - We're looking for it. - OK. 509 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,040 Well, if we have to evacuate, we're just going to have to. 510 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,240 You know, we'll do our best, but just let us know, alright? 511 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,240 - If you see people running... - I appreciate it. 512 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,520 - ...we've got the fire department here. - OK, thank you. 513 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,440 "The bottoms of her feet... 514 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,080 were covered in blood, 515 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:27,680 and how do we know that? 516 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,800 - There's a photo of it. - Do you want it right now? 517 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,040 - Yes. No no no. - Do you wanna prepare them for it? 518 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,480 Well, that doesn't work. 519 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,840 - That doesn't work at all. - You got this one. Oops. 520 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:44,840 No. 521 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,680 Understand if one is off, they're all gonna be off. 522 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,800 - And then I can put them in proper order. - This is how it needs to be. 523 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:54,600 - I do understand that. - It's right there. 524 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,000 I know that. 525 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,200 I know what I did wrong. 526 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,520 I was doing it on the fly before we started this. 527 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:01,920 I know what I did wrong. 528 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,760 I made an error when I loaded them in. 529 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:06,360 Right now... 530 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,600 This system sucks, 531 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,440 'cause I've done it with presentation group, 532 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,920 and I had none of these problems. 533 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:16,120 None. 534 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,120 None, none. 535 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,280 And I am fucking pissed, 536 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,280 because it's 7:20, the night before my opening, 537 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,760 and you're fucking around with this. 538 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,920 One of these documents is, apparently, out of order. 539 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,080 I just don't know. 540 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,440 I cannot give you the documents in the order that you want them. 541 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,560 All I can do right now is go through them. 542 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,560 - I guarantee you they will be there. - I don't want a guarantee. 543 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,160 I want to see it on the screen, 544 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,560 so I don't give a shit if we're here all fucking night. 545 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,000 Well, I'm not sure that they will be, either. 546 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,720 I think so, but I don't know. 547 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:17,280 This case is no more and no longer about Kathleen. 548 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,480 The DA has to win. That's it. 549 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,280 He doesn't care how, and basically... 550 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,280 By the same token, my lawyer, they want to win. 551 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,800 Truth is lost in all of this now. 552 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,360 Truth is of no meaning whatsoever. 553 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:33,920 This has become a show, 554 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,480 and it has got its own momentum, 555 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,640 and we're just going along. 556 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,040 I don't think the DA cares about truth anymore. 557 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,480 All he wants to do is win. 558 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,480 And I understand that. I mean, sure. 559 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,520 And the same way with David. He wants to win. 560 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:53,520 Well, I want to win, too, 561 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:59,120 but I'm still very concerned about the reality of what happened that night. 562 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:22,920 Hey, guys. 563 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:31,960 Where's Mike? 564 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,760 - What's that? - They hit a stoplight, my dad and Faris. 565 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:35,760 OK, I'll wait. 566 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:36,920 They're coming. 567 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,280 Be nice. Be calm. 568 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:50,680 - You alright? - Yeah. 569 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,720 - Pretty good, how are you doing? - Good. 570 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:10,920 Okay. You want me to get that, David? 571 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,640 - What's that? - Want me to get that? 572 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,840 Alright, Chris, we're gonna see if you can beat us upstairs now. 573 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:32,560 We got a crew on that. 574 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:44,480 Thanks. 575 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,920 Alright, that's fine. 576 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,840 - Alright, Hart. - See ya up there, buddy. 577 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,000 Run up now. 578 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,120 I wanna see you as I get out the elevator. 579 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,200 Come on. 580 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,880 Start with the 911, and then... 581 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:01,680 - After the... - After the... 582 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,840 - last headshot, then get the movie ready. - Right. 583 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,280 - After the third laceration shot. - Right. 584 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:08,440 OK. 585 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:52,720 Good morning to each of you. 586 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,080 Good morning. 587 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,360 The core issues are simple, 588 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,160 but everything else about this case isn't. 589 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,240 In a very real sense 590 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,200 this case is about pretense and appearances. 591 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,200 The defendant says that Kathleen Peterson's death 592 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,920 was caused by a tragic, accidental fall down stairs in their home. 593 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,840 And we say, on the other hand, that she died a horrible, painful death 594 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,560 at the hands of her husband, Michael Peterson. 595 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,480 I've selected a couple of pictures for you that really, in my mind, 596 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,720 show this diametric opposition. 597 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,440 The first photograph I'm going to show you is of Kathleen. 598 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,440 This would have been taken... 599 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,560 This is how she would have looked... 600 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,200 prior to December the 9th of 2001, 601 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,720 had you seen her in her home or possibly at work. 602 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,040 You can see from this photograph, 603 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,600 you can feel from this photograph, 604 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,360 that she's a very genteel, warm person. 605 00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:04,040 Now, on December the 9th of 2001, at 2:48, 606 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,240 when EMS personnel first arrive, 607 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,160 they see Kathleen Peterson in a completely different way. 608 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,560 They see her lying at the bottom of her steps... 609 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,440 just as you see in this photograph. 610 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,280 Now, later that day, 611 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,960 after her body has been removed from the home, 612 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:31,960 she's taken to the medical examiner's office. 613 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:35,880 This is one of the first photographs taken of her, 614 00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:42,400 as she's lying on a steel gurney in the medical examiner's office... 615 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,240 after they've shaved her head 616 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,840 so that they can determine where the wounds are. 617 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,440 This is where the rubber meets the road, ladies and gentlemen. 618 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,600 They say it's an accident that was caused by a couple of falls 619 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,320 in that stairway, 620 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,440 and we say it's not. 621 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,160 We say it's murder. 622 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:16,760 You heard Mr. Rudolf talk with you about the fact that we didn't have a weapon. 623 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:18,720 That's true. 624 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,680 We don't have the actual implement that Mike Peterson used 625 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,120 to cause this injury. 626 00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:30,160 Wounding, lacerations... 627 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,440 to the back of Kathleen's head. 628 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,520 But we have an identical replica. 629 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:37,120 Where did we get it? 630 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,480 Kathleen's sister, Candice, 631 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,760 gave several family members a blow poke just like this one. 632 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,240 Kathleen had had this in her home for years and years, 633 00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:51,200 but mysteriously, on December the 9th, 634 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:52,760 It's gone. 635 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,240 It's hollow. It's light. 636 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:58,400 It's easily used. 637 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,680 And we will contend to you, this, or something like this, 638 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,920 is the article that was used to inflict these wounds. 639 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,480 The blow poker that had been given to Kathleen 15 years before, apparently, 640 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,040 and it was now "mysteriously missing." 641 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,720 We'll hear about whether it's "mysterious" or not. 642 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,800 They didn't find any murder weapon. Nothing was found. 643 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,040 Where did it go? 644 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,000 Where did this blow poker go? 645 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,360 They searched his cars. There wasn't any blood in the cars. 646 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,560 They went all around the house. There wasn't any blood upstairs. 647 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,240 He didn't change his clothes. 648 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,200 He didn't... Where did he get rid of it? 649 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,280 And when? 650 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,120 That's left "mysterious." 651 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,080 But we don't convict people based on "mysterious" here. 652 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,680 I mean, can you imagine... 653 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,480 somebody beating somebody over the head, 654 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,080 whacking them as hard as they can, 655 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,920 'cause you don't wack somebody like this, when you're trying to kill them. 656 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,080 Imagine that there's no skull fracture. 657 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,320 There's no brain contusions. 658 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,840 There's no swelling of the brain. 659 00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:16,840 There's none of the internal hemorrhages, subdurals, things like that 660 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,440 that you would see from that kind of injury. 661 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,080 No. None of them. 662 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,040 We intend to show you during this trial, 663 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:27,880 to the best of our ability, 664 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:34,000 what happened in that stairway on December 9th was a tragic accident. 665 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,800 An accident that left Michael Peterson, 666 00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:41,840 Not wealthy man, but a very poor man, 667 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,800 in the thing that was most important to him. 668 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,120 It left him without his soulmate. 669 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,600 Kathleen and Michael connected in a way that... 670 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,240 a few people, who are really, really lucky in life... 671 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,280 have a chance to connect, 672 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,240 and they built a family. 673 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:09,520 The two of them... 674 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:16,040 built a family out of the strands of their prior families. 675 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,080 Todd on the left, 676 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,520 Kathleen and Michael, 677 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,280 Margaret peeking out from the back there, 678 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:26,760 Caitlin in the front, 679 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,240 Clayton, and Martha. 680 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,400 What kept them together, what caused them to build that, 681 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:40,200 was a love that absolutely everyone who saw them or knew them... 682 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,360 understood, and recognized, and envied. 683 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,600 Listen to how Caitlin Atwater, 684 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,760 who unfortunately now sits on opposite sides, 685 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,160 and that's one of the real tragedies of this case. 686 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,600 Listen to how she described what Michael Peterson meant to her mother. 687 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:04,400 This is from 1999. 688 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,600 "Michael Peterson stopped my mother's tears. 689 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,440 I used to sit at the top of the stairs, leaning through the banister, 690 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,240 and listen to my mother sob every night 691 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,280 for a year after my father left. 692 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,040 My father had torn her apart, 693 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,920 crushing her shell and the illusion in which she lived, 694 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,320 destroying her dignity and pride. 695 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:35,160 But Mike was able to restore her strength and confidence, 696 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,240 and to show her that she could find true love. 697 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:41,800 From the beginning, 698 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,680 I was in debt to Mike, in my heart and mind, 699 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,160 for bringing back my mother's happiness." 700 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,080 You know, if the prosecution is correct, 701 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,720 how do we go from soulmate and lover... 702 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,960 to cold blooded murderer? 703 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:06,880 How does that happen? 704 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,440 Well, the answer is very simple. You don't. 705 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,000 The truth is that Kathleen Peterson, 706 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,720 after drinking some wine and some champagne, 707 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:17,560 and taking some Valium, 708 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,880 tried to walk up a narrow, poorly-lit stairway in flip-flops, 709 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,760 and she fell, and she bled to death. 710 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,520 What Michael Peterson brought to Kathleen Peterson 711 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,560 was true happiness over 13 years. 712 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:41,120 That's... 713 00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:44,520 the picture, that's not posed. 714 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,400 That's Kathleen sitting on Michael's lap, 715 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,920 and what you see there is the happiness 716 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,480 that she felt with him, 717 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,320 and that he felt with her. 718 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:07,000 Everyone who really knew that relationship, everyone... 719 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:09,280 who knew them 720 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,280 knew that they loved each other. 721 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:14,240 Everyone... 722 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,120 who knew them knows... 723 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,800 that Michael Peterson had nothing to do with the death... 724 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,080 of Kathleen Peterson. 725 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,840 And at the end of all the evidence, 726 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,240 I'm gonna ask the 12 of you to come back and return a verdict 727 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,360 that will, in fact, speak the truth in this case: 728 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,760 A verdict of "not guilty." 729 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:42,280 Thank you. 730 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,400 Members of the jury, we're going to take our lunch break at this point. 731 00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:50,400 Mr. Deputy, 1:30. 732 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:52,160 All stand. 733 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:54,560 Yes sir, yes sir, yes sir. 734 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,680 The Superior Court, County of Durham in recess until 1:30 this afternoon. 735 00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,600 God save the State and this honorable Court. 59155

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