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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,162 WWW.MY-SUBS.COM 1 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,800 Live from ABC 11, 2 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,600 this is Eyewitness News at Six. 3 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,760 The murder case against Michael Peterson doesn't just involve his wife anymore. 4 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,960 It involves a friend who died 18 years ago. 5 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:07,480 Just like Kathleen Peterson, 6 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,600 Ratliff was found dead at the bottom of a staircase. 7 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,760 Eyewitness News reporter Anthony Wilson 8 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,400 has more on the potentially explosive information. 9 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,600 Elizabeth Ratliff was a friend of Michael Peterson. 10 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,160 In fact, Peterson was with Ratliff 11 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,720 the night before she was found dead in Germany. 12 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,000 Ratliff's body was discovered at the bottom of a staircase in 1985, 13 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,360 and prosecutors have implied the circumstances of her death 14 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,560 mirror those of Michael Peterson's wife, Kathleen. 15 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,840 She was found dead in the Peterson home back in January 2001. 16 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:40,480 Nope. 17 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,840 OK, well, you guys got a much better film now. 18 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:59,560 What did Margaret Ratliff tell you about what happened to her mother? 19 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,480 - Does she know any of the details about... - No, she doesn't. 20 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,240 With the exception that her mother died of a natural cause. 21 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,080 Didn't we look at this... 22 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:10,840 a few months ago, 23 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:14,360 and didn't Mike give us an autopsy or something? 24 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,640 stroke or cerebral hemorrhage, 25 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,320 - or something like that? - Right. 26 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,200 He told us that he had been with her the day before, 27 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,880 I think with Patty, they had dinner or something. 28 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,000 But you know what the authorities are gonna do. The police are gonna assume 29 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,240 that because she was found at the bottom of the stairs, 30 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,000 they're gonna try to link them together. 31 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,760 - Whether or not they're successful... - Mike is like "The Stairway Killer." 32 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,080 - Is that the idea? - Apparently that's what they're gonna... 33 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,880 He's found a way to kill women, 17 years apart... 34 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,600 Right? This is, like, in the mid-'80s. 35 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,000 Yeah, this is 1985, I believe. 36 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,800 So he strikes, like, every 17 years, 37 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,080 by finding some way to kill women on a stairway? Is that the... 38 00:02:58,960 --> 00:02:59,840 Right. 39 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,000 And of course it helps their case. It's, you know... 40 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,000 if two people are found at the bottom of stairs, 41 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,360 they're gonna try to bring that in, one way or the other. 42 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,000 I mean, I don't know what's there, and it may be nothing, 43 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,200 but if it is nothing, we need to find out it's nothing. 44 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:16,520 'Cause I'm not gonna be very... 45 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,840 comfortable being surprised by something that happened in Germany. 46 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:22,760 Oh, I know. 47 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,520 I know you don't know much about the case, 48 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,640 but we all form impressions from whatever we've heard. 49 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,240 Howard, you know, what's your gut-level reaction? 50 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,800 - Can I ask one question before I tell you? - Sure. 51 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,480 OK, someone said that there was another wife... 52 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,520 that died in similar circumstances? 53 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,920 I think... I don't know whether she was a wife or not, 54 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,000 but there was another woman that... 55 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,400 It came up that she may have fallen in similar circumstances, 56 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,800 and someone had said they need to check that out. 57 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:07,640 This second incident in Europe casts a long shadow on Michael Peterson. 58 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,800 And it really does create a lot of doubt. 59 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:13,080 OK. 60 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:14,680 So I think that... 61 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,240 people are going to really question his innocence because of this. 62 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,840 Because the two incidences, as I remember reading, 63 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,280 were so very similar. 64 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:32,840 Can you be back here in 35 minutes? Is that enough time? 35, 40 minutes? 65 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,520 Oh! I'm sorry. 66 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,000 The Germany thing is out there already. 67 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,040 We're not gonna to get rid of that. It's there. 68 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,600 You know? There is no getting rid of it. 69 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,360 All we can do right now is... 70 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,240 I agree with David. Can I make a suggestion? 71 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,800 I'd like to know, if you would ask them one more time, 72 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,960 What would you want to know about the Germany thing? 73 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,400 What would you want to know, and then answer the questions. 74 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:55,400 - Right. - OK. 75 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,280 Do you want me to start out by clarifying the Germany thing? 76 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,840 - Yes, now that it's on the table, - It does seem to permeate... 77 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,880 I think we have to... "Here are the facts 78 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,840 that are known right now about Germany." 79 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,800 We know what we're gonna be able to show. There was no financial benefit from it. 80 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:13,720 He did take... 81 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,160 You know, he took care of the kids for the next 16 years. 82 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,640 There was no evidence of any affair. 83 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,760 Do you wanna mention the $70,000 or not? 84 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:26,280 Yeah, you can say there was a $70,000 life insurance policy, 85 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,160 - and that's all the money that... - And it was left to the girls, right? 86 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:30,880 - Right. - Which he spent on the girls. 87 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:32,880 - Right. - Which was spent on the girls. 88 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,920 What happened is, that during the night, 89 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,840 or a few days following the death of Mrs. Peterson, 90 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,680 the police overheard some people talking about... 91 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,080 "Well, this is really a double tragedy, 92 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:52,000 because Margaret and Martha's mother died in the same way," 93 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:58,480 and that is why the police decided to check into it, 94 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,960 and go to Germany, and find out what the circumstances were. 95 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:02,600 But it wasn't the same way, though. 96 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,040 I would think that the defense would benefit 97 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,520 from this story being brought up in the case 98 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,800 because my opinion has gone, like you say, 99 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:16,160 higher respect, moral character, towards Peterson, 100 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,680 by the man who would do that, take on the children, et cetera. 101 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,400 I have to say I have a totally new respect for the man. 102 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,320 Anybody who would take on someone else's children and raise them, 103 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,960 and they're not blood children because when they got divorced, 104 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:29,920 he could have easily said, "Go with Patty," 105 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,560 or, "Go to the state," or whatever. 106 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,200 I'm just thinking that we, the group, in general, 107 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:37,040 jumped to a conclusion of innocence, 108 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,800 because he adopted these... 109 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:41,960 her two children, the woman who died. 110 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,760 - No, that's not what I'm saying. - I don't think you can do that. 111 00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:47,200 Well, let's assume, for instance, 112 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:49,960 that he had an affair with this woman, OK? 113 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,080 And he was discovered. 114 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,120 OK? I'm gonna write one of his books now. 115 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,800 Suppose he has to get rid of her... 116 00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:01,000 and does... 117 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,680 Then adopting the children would make him look innocent, wouldn't it? 118 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,040 - Here's a picture of Axel here, that's... - OK. 119 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,640 - When we get in the airport... - He's gonna meet us the airport. 120 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,200 - Axel's gonna meet us at the airport. - OK. 121 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,360 Grafenhausen is where Elizabeth was living at the time of her death. 122 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,000 That's also where Mike and Patty were living. 123 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,800 and one of the first people we're gonna see is Patty herself. 124 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,320 - Where is Patty living now? - Grafenhausen. 125 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:36,920 - She's still living there. - Yeah. 126 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,080 - But a different house. - Different house, not far. 127 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,320 It's just a little village. 128 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,680 And Patty is taking us over to the apartment. 129 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,080 She says a woman lives there, but doesn't know her, 130 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,240 so we're just gonna go in and knock on the door. 131 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:51,520 Hopefully, she'll let us in. 132 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,280 You're talking about Elizabeth's apartment? 133 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:54,520 Elizabeth's old apartment. 134 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,880 In my mind, there are two main things 135 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,440 that I think we should be focusing on when we go over there. 136 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,000 First of all, I think we... 137 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,600 need to understand what the relationship was 138 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,880 between Mike and Patty on the one hand, 139 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:14,600 and Elizabeth Ratliff on the other. 140 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:16,960 And the second thing I think we need to really focus on, 141 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,840 is what happened on the morning that Elizabeth Ratliff died, 142 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,880 what time did Barbara Malagnino find her? 143 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:25,560 What were the conditions like? 144 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,200 You know, what happened after Barbara found her. 145 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,840 You know, what were Mike and Patty doing, all that sort of stuff. 146 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,920 I hear Clayton's doing well in Baltimore, he enjoys it. 147 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:13,880 I am thankful. 148 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,960 I'm encouraging him to apply for entry to Johns Hopkins 149 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,880 - to do his master's degree in electronics. - That'd be great. 150 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,080 - Yeah. - A brother is going... 151 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,200 So these are the houses? 152 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,160 These are all of the homes. They're all exactly alike. 153 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,000 - The stairs in question... - There's a young German youth there. 154 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:33,120 Yes. 155 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:35,520 Hallo, Todd. 156 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,920 And this is where Todd grew up for six years. 157 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,800 So does this bring back fond memories for you? 158 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:43,760 It's amazing being back here. 159 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:44,680 Is it? 160 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:45,800 It's a lot smaller. 161 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:47,520 Really? You remembered it bigger? 162 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,480 And this home here was the Peterson home. 163 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,640 - Right here? - That is it. 164 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,800 So you all lived right here? 165 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,560 Yes. I won't go further. There's someone in her window. 166 00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:09,400 - OK. - But we lived here. 167 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:12,920 The children's bedroom upstairs, and ours over there. 168 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,680 And this is the home of dear Elizabeth McKee Ratliff, 169 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,400 - our beloved friend. - It's right here? 170 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,440 This is it, yes, this is her home. 171 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:27,240 Liz lived here with... 172 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:28,920 Margaret and Martha. 173 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,440 With Margaret and Martha, and Barbara, the nanny, 174 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,640 would... would live here with them, 175 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,680 but of course she was not always here. 176 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,520 She was sometimes out with her family, with her friends. 177 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,640 But they lived here from... 178 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:47,440 probably the end of 1983, until Liz's death in the fall of 1985. 179 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,480 And we spent, essentially, much of every day together. 180 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:53,760 She and I were teachers together at the base school. 181 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,400 And Sunday evening, we had dinner here together. 182 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,280 Mike came in later, because he went every day 183 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,880 to the gymnasium at the air base, 184 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,280 and he came in perhaps 30 minutes later. 185 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:09,480 We shared dinner, then I took my two sons back home 186 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:12,080 to put them in bed. Mike stayed here, as was customary 187 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,760 since George's death, to help clear the dishes, perhaps. 188 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,080 Sometimes, he would read a story to the children, 189 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,800 bring family comfort to them, and then he returned home to me. 190 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,800 He got the... Rather, to our home. 191 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,680 He came to collect the automobile keys. 192 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,600 He drove back here in the automobile. 193 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,960 Liz would have been in her automobile. 194 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,200 We American teachers have the custom over here, 195 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,720 if we need to have automobile repair work done, 196 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,520 one drives a friend, collects us, and brings us back home. 197 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:45,960 That had been the arrangement, 198 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,520 and I can confirm the fact that he returned within 30 to 40 minutes 199 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:50,480 after that trip. 200 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,760 - Let me ask you a question. - Of course, yes. 201 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,880 When they left your place, the girls were here asleep, right? 202 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,480 Or did they come home, Martha and Margaret? 203 00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:01,720 - Repeat your question please. - No, the dinner was here. 204 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,200 Well, the dinner was here, but when Mike took... 205 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,000 - I understand that Mike took Liz... - Liz. 206 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:07,840 The girls would have been sleeping upstairs. 207 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,960 - Who was watching the girls? - They were probably alone for 30 minutes. 208 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:12,920 So you're talking, how old were they? 209 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,680 - Would have been several years. - Two and one. 210 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,400 Two and one. And they would have been left alone? 211 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,160 Yes, but probably, she might have notified a next door neighbor, 212 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,080 and also, I was there. 213 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:26,320 Up the street. 214 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:27,280 OK. 215 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,160 - Let me ask an unpleasant question. - Yes. 216 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,640 Is there any chance that Mike was having an affair with her? 217 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,000 My response would be absolutely not. 218 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,600 It was a platonic relationship, 219 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,640 because I know all aspects of his personality. 220 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,360 There would be, under no circumstances 221 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,880 would he have had a sexual relationship with her. 222 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,080 He would have had a platonic, a loving, familial relationship with her, 223 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,760 and that, in my mind, 224 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,240 in my heart, in my spirit, under no circumstances... 225 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,160 including even temporary insanity, that could strike all persons, 226 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,360 under no circumstances would he have taken her life or injured her. 227 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,120 Is this how you pictured it, Ron? 228 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:26,400 - No. - No. 229 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,720 I didn't realize it was this close. 230 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,440 - It's very close. - Yeah. Yeah. 231 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:33,720 Yeah, I thought it was a lot further away, 232 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,400 the way they were explaining it to me. It's real close. 233 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:38,400 Hello? 234 00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:40,560 - Hi. - Hi. 235 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:44,520 - Is it alright if we come in? - Of course. 236 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:45,480 Thank you. 237 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,000 - Thank you very much. - You're welcome. 238 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:51,600 Don't be afraid of the dog. 239 00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:52,600 Oh, no, no, no. 240 00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:53,800 He's just barking. 241 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,360 But I understood that she had a stroke up there, 242 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,440 and then she fell down and obviously broke her neck. 243 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:01,840 I really don't know. 244 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:02,800 OK. 245 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,680 I know that my neighbors up there, 246 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:10,160 they still were talking that it was kind of funny... 247 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,320 and mysterious. 248 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,760 And I think the babysitter found her. 249 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:15,680 Yes, right. 250 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:17,000 Hallo. Guten tag. 251 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:18,400 Guten tag. 252 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:24,480 And hallo. 253 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:25,960 You are most kind. 254 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,360 - Never mind, it's OK. - Thank you. 255 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:31,760 So... 256 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:33,720 You OK? 257 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,440 - Seventy-eight centimeters. - Seventy-eight... 258 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:50,280 Sixteen. 259 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,600 This is the first time I've been in the home 260 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,000 since that period of time. 261 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:00,960 - Is that right? Since she died? - Yes. 262 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,720 And when Barbara first came in and found her, 263 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,320 and was with with her for perhaps five minutes, 264 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,840 and then came to collect me, and I ran immediately, 265 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,400 and Liz was still in the same position, 266 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,160 and then Michael immediately, within a few minutes, 267 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:18,960 telephoned the military police, 268 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:20,320 and she was... 269 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,920 Now that I see the staircase, 270 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,880 she could have even been on the first, second stair. 271 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,720 I was sitting here the entire time 272 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,560 that the polizei and the military police were in the home, 273 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,200 and I was sitting here, directly observing, 274 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,920 when the German medical examiner took the spinal tap 275 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,040 and held the contents up so that he could view them, 276 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:43,720 and that even from this distance, 277 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,760 I could see that it did not look clear, and that's when he made the statement, 278 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,680 right there by her body, in my presence, 279 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,040 that she had died of a cerebral hemorrhage. 280 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,520 There was nothing out of place, 281 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,280 except she was no longer living. 282 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,800 Everything was as one would have walked into a normal home. 283 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,160 You know, there was no pool of blood. 284 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,440 - There were no... - Spatters. 285 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,920 I mean, there could have been a few spatters here. 286 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,560 But so small, that they did not register with me. 287 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,440 - OK, so like this... - Yes, and her feet were... 288 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,560 - Try to position me exactly. - OK, if you turn here, 289 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,240 and the feet were about, something like right here. 290 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,440 Just turned a little... She was turned sideways. 291 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,800 She was turned on her side facing upward. 292 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,720 - Facing that way. OK. - Yes, like that. 293 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,760 Except this arm was more under her, as I recall. 294 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,120 - Something like this? - Yes, 295 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,920 and this arm would have been more like this. 296 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,600 You are more at an angle, and her position was more linear. 297 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,520 - More straight? - More linear, at a diagonal. 298 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,800 Like that, yes, but you take up four stairs, 299 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,880 and she would have only taken three stairs, 300 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,040 and her head was lower, and her head was more... 301 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:51,160 on this angle. 302 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,280 What was your sense, other than attending the parties 303 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:38,920 at Mike and Patty's house? 304 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,600 Did you have any sense of what their relationship was like at the time? 305 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,320 I saw them as a perfectly normal couple. 306 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,800 Not anything unusual, and... 307 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:54,760 Did you ever see Mike lose his temper at Patty, 308 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,600 - or get angry at her? - Oh, no. We were never 309 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:58,600 in a situation where that would have happened. 310 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,080 - This is Liz here. - Mm-hmm. 311 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,800 And that's the oldest daughter with her, Margaret? 312 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,360 - Which one's Liz? - Yes. On the right. 313 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:10,480 Can I see that? 314 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,720 Is this about what she looked like when she died? 315 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,440 Is this close to when she died? 316 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,800 Yeah, because you can tell by the age of the girls. 317 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,840 - One girl was two, one was one. - OK. 318 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:22,240 That's Patty, of course, 319 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,200 because look, here I see Patty and Liz side-by-side. 320 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,960 This could have been Liz. If I had not seen this other picture. 321 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,560 I would have taken this for Liz. 322 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,360 How close they looked. 323 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,360 See? Look at this. 324 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:36,960 Patty... Liz. 325 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,560 - Who's that there? Is that Mike? Oh. - That's Mike. 326 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:41,480 Oh, wow. 327 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:44,440 This is after George had died? 328 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,440 I would think so. Otherwise, George... 329 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,880 Which one is Liz now? The one standing up? 330 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,560 Yeah, but look how close. 331 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,280 From our perspective, given what the police think, 332 00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:59,200 what we're concerned about is, 333 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:00,800 did she ever say anything to you 334 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,320 that would have led you to believe that she had some affair with Mike, 335 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,000 or illicit relationship with Mike? 336 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,920 No. That's the first time I hear this. 337 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,040 OK. 338 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,480 - We have to ask the question. - Yeah, I know, but... 339 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,080 that would have been so far-fetched, that even if she had said that, 340 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:18,920 I would have said, "Are you crazy?" 341 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,600 And I don't think... 342 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,120 See, the friendship between Patty and Liz 343 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,600 was a such a friendship, that... 344 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,000 you wouldn't dare ruin your friendship over something like that. 345 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,280 And that's the way Liz believed, 346 00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:35,160 and that's the way I believe with my close friends, 347 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,480 - because I risk the friendship. - Right. 348 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,000 And to me, the friendship is worth more than a man. 349 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:43,560 I can find a man somewhere else. 350 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,240 - But then I still have that friendship. - Makes me feel real good. 351 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,000 - No, but would you risk a friendship... - I'm just kidding. 352 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,400 - I think you're asking the wrong person. - That went on over years? 353 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,200 It takes time to build a friendship, and when it lasts for years... 354 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,400 Depends on how fast you talk. 355 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:00,840 Ah, no. 356 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,680 This is the District Attorney's office? 357 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:37,720 Yeah. 358 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:41,320 What's the handwriting on the back there? 359 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:43,960 Is that anything? 360 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,440 Oh, yes, it's a decision of my colleague, 361 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,080 who said, "I put an end to this case." 362 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,040 - Ah, OK. - "It's finished." 363 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:55,280 - Do we get a copy of this? - Yes. 364 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:56,440 Yes, I see it. 365 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,880 - And it has the name of the doctor. - Of the doctor, OK. 366 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,520 It's a lot of years. 15 years or 17 years. 367 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,080 Yes. Yes. 368 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:07,240 Thank you. Yes. 369 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,880 Because... There's a trial in the United States... 370 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,400 because of murder or homicide? 371 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,840 Which is the prosecution? 372 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:33,480 It's a homicide case in the United States. 373 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,240 - Where is it in the States? - In North Carolina. 374 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,160 - North Carolina. - Yes. 375 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,160 - OK. - Thank you very much. 376 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:41,160 No problem. 377 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:42,240 Thank you. 378 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,080 Have a good day. 379 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:45,080 Goodbye. 380 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,880 "Body was given to the MPs, 381 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,880 and any following investigation will be conducted 382 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,200 - by the CID, Darmstadt." - CID, Darmstadt. 383 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,200 "He realized that there is blood... 384 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,040 - inside the fluid..." - Spinal fluid. 385 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,320 "Spinal fluid." 386 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:20,320 OK... 387 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,120 Natural death, 388 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,680 due to blood inside the brain." 389 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,240 OK, yeah, hemorrhage. 390 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,080 Is it unusual for the doctor to go to the place of a death? 391 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,360 - Or do they always go? - No, they always go. 392 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:35,640 OK. 393 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:40,120 Every accident, the German law says 394 00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:44,000 it must must be attended by a doctor, 395 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,760 and he has to give his medical examination. 396 00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:49,400 OK. 397 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,520 Well, there was no foul play. 398 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,480 That's why they quit investigations. 399 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:56,640 OK. 400 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:06,400 Hey, Michael. How are you? I'm back. 401 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,600 If I never go to Germany again, it'll be OK. 402 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,360 All I could think about, 403 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,200 as I watched these German men marching in this parade on Saturday, 404 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,480 was what they were doing in 1942. 405 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,240 Yes, exactly. 406 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,200 Or guarding somebody who I knew. 407 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:30,960 Yes. 408 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,240 Sunday we first interviewed Barbara. 409 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,720 Yeah. There are a couple of things that she said, 410 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,800 that, you know, if they're true, are troubling. 411 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:49,040 She claimed that there was a lot of blood all around the stairway 412 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:51,000 and the bottom of the hallway. 413 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,440 You know, when Liz was lying there, 414 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,000 and Patty says that's just not true. 415 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,600 There's no indication of that in any of the police reports, 416 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,200 but she was very firm about that. 417 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,400 You know, blood on the wall, blood underneath the stairs. 418 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,360 You know, she told me she had been cleaning blood up for, 419 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,040 you know, weeks afterwards. 420 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:41,720 Alright... 421 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:45,160 On the exhumation... 422 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:52,760 apparently Holland told Barbara, in an email to her, 423 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,400 told her that they were exhuming Liz's body. 424 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,480 Right now we're just basing it on 425 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,480 what Barbara told us that Holland told her, 426 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,440 - and I don't wanna... - Right. 427 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,240 What I would like you to do, then, is talk to Hardin, 428 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,440 and say, "Jim, we don't personally have any objection," 429 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,840 although again, what's the fucking grounds? 430 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,400 Can people just go dig up graves? 431 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,560 What Holland claimed was that they had permission 432 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,720 - from Liz's mother and sister. - Well, aren't the closest relatives... 433 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,320 And, again, I don't wanna get into a pissing contest with them. 434 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,520 - What about their daughter? - I don't know. 435 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:29,920 You know, that... 436 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,640 It may be ugly and it may be terrible, 437 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,640 but the bottom line is, it's gonna end up help... 438 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,560 - You know, if... - I understand that. 439 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,280 If everything is as we think it is, it's gonna help us. 440 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,680 I know, and normally, look, I mean, 441 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,960 I've seen enough dead bodies and corpses and graves, 442 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,240 that it doesn't... 443 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,280 You know, I have no moral problem with this, but... 444 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:52,920 You know, again, as I wrote you, Liz was a very good friend of mine. 445 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,920 And I've been with that family, the Ratliff family, 446 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,440 since George died in... 447 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,080 Jesus, you know, the Grenada Invasion in 1981. 448 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,280 I mean, these people have gone through an immense amount. 449 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,120 And it's just... I just don't know, 450 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,480 and I can't imagine what Margaret and Martha would think. 451 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,480 "Oh, by the way, your Aunt Margaret decided to dig up your mother. 452 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,200 Just because." Like, oh, Christ! 453 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,840 So if you can work it out with Holland, or Holland and Hardin, 454 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,400 so that I won't tell the girls, but before they do it, 455 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,800 I'm certainly going to have to tell the girls, 456 00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:32,440 and you might say, "You might also, Jim, want to talk to the girls. 457 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,200 You know, the sister's one thing, 458 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,080 but the daughters are another matter, and..." 459 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,440 - I really don't want to get into that. - OK. 460 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:45,720 I don't want to get into a pissing match with Hardin 461 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,440 over who did they get permission from, 462 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,920 and who should they have gotten permission from. 463 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:53,240 That, I mean, that's just a battle that... 464 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,040 A, I don't want to fight, and B, we're not gonna win. 465 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:01,120 Right. Fine, but I guess now we're strictly talking about the law here. 466 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:03,000 Can people just go dig up graves? 467 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,800 You know, it's one thing when they go in, on Holland, 468 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,240 and go swab Kathleen's vagina, and Howard and Brian. 469 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,880 Now we're talking... You know, that's macabre and sick. 470 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,400 They go in there after Kathleen's autopsy, two days later. 471 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,560 She's in there, they all rush in to her body, 472 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,360 and were doing that, which was disgusting, 473 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:19,760 and now we're digging up a body. 474 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,400 - I just, I don't like it. - I understand. 475 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,400 No, but I mean, I understand it. 476 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,800 So just work it out with Hardin, 477 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,240 that at least I can notify Margaret and Martha 478 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,720 that their mom is going to be dug up. 479 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,080 I understand. 480 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,000 Morning, morning, morning. Hi, nice to see you. 481 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:48,400 - How are you? - Good. 482 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,200 - Guter? - I did sleep. Yes. 483 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,360 - Thank you. You? - Good. 484 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,160 Down in the corner room? 485 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,240 - No, just nearby. - Yeah. 486 00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,360 I'm so happy to see you again. 487 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,840 You don't need anything? You want something to drink? 488 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,600 Just a little water. That would be lovely... 489 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,040 - Ice? - ...as a matter of fact. 490 00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:08,840 Of course. 491 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,920 Oh, my God. My attorney. Jesus. 492 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:17,400 Hello? 493 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:19,280 David! 494 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:21,640 Fine. What's up? 495 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:24,200 Go ahead. 496 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:28,480 Well, that's what I thought, 497 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,240 that the whole purpose behind embalming, 498 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:31,720 was to preserve the body. 499 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,880 So the expectation is she's going to look exactly like she was 500 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,400 when she was buried. 501 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:42,800 That's what I thought. 502 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,160 Yeah, and you know, she was buried in her wedding dress. 503 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,200 So you wanna see her by seven o'clock? 504 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:53,160 Bye. 505 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,280 - That was David saying that... - I beg your pardon. 506 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,360 The exhumation is probably going to be... 507 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,000 She's going to be perfectly preserved. 508 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,080 - Indeed. - That's what I would have thought. 509 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,600 Well, I had horrors of other things that... 510 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,200 I think we did, but that's the whole idea behind... 511 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,320 - Embalming. - Embalming, and having, you know, 512 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:22,520 sealed coffins, and then a vault in there, so that you're preserved forever. 513 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,120 Yes. 514 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,960 I think when Margaret was visiting with me, 515 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:28,440 we had a very good visit, 516 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,040 and we sat down and we talked for many, many hours. 517 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,160 We talked through the entire night. 518 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,880 All of her hopes, her dreams, her fears. 519 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,600 And with your trial approaching closer and closer, 520 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,440 I think everyone's anxiety is growing more. 521 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:45,520 When we were in Frankfurt, 522 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,880 I took her up to the wonderful, lofty building 523 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,920 from which you can view all of Frankfurt, 524 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,640 and she developed some severe anxiety about that, 525 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,800 and obviously this is all related to her feelings for you, the father. 526 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:02,840 You are her profound father figure obviously, 527 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,520 but I think that her anxiety is, perhaps, increasing somewhat, 528 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,800 because she does not want to suffer another loss, 529 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,600 and we touched very briefly on... 530 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,800 on the exhumation of her mother. I did not use that word. 531 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,240 I didn't use necessarily an epithet, 532 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,360 but I didn't want to use that word directly. 533 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,480 But this, I feel, will be a very profound 534 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,000 and certainly life-disturbing event for her. 535 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,680 It was just a shock. It was... 536 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,840 too overwhelming. It was... 537 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,240 the most horrible thing in the world. I don't know. 538 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,760 It was, like, my worst nightmare when I was little. 539 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,880 You know, you'd have nightmares of like... 540 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,480 your mother, your parents coming back alive, 541 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,360 and what they would look like, you know, 542 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,320 and just typical childhood nightmares, 543 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,400 and it was like it was coming true. 544 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,600 It was my worst nightmare in the world coming true. 545 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:06,600 It's horrible. 546 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,680 And the fact that we had to sign it, too, was traumatizing. 547 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,080 You know, we had to sign this sheet that would release her... 548 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,640 It would have them dig up our mother, and... 549 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,280 examine her body, and it's horrible, it's the most... 550 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,200 horrible thing I could ever have imagined. 551 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,040 My first gut reaction was, "No. No way. 552 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,480 There's no chance in hell. I'm not gonna let this happen," 553 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,720 but then I sat down and thought about it, and realized that... 554 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,840 You know, and Dad didn't even talk to us about it. 555 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:52,000 He just told us, you know, asked us, basically, whether it was OK with us. 556 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,600 And when I talked to Martha, 557 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,680 I just realized that we had to. 558 00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,680 I mean, obviously, 559 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,160 it would show that Dad didn't do anything. 560 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,000 You know, it would give even more proof to the fact 561 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,880 that Dad is innocent of everything. 562 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,200 "The last trip Liz Ratliff... 563 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:18,880 nee McKee... 564 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:20,960 made was in a hearse. 565 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,080 She had ridden in others. 566 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,800 The first after she died in 1985. 567 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,000 She had been transported from her home, where she died, 568 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:31,960 to the hospital, for her autopsy. 569 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,360 Then, there was a hearse ride from the hospital to the airport 570 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,280 for her return to the United States. 571 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,520 And what presumably... 572 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,480 was her last hearse journey 573 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,120 from the mortuary to the grave. 574 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,720 However, 18 years later, 575 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:51,920 she made another trip. 576 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,480 This one, a 1,200 mile journey across Middle America 577 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:56,920 in the back of a hearse, 578 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,080 traveling from her grave... 579 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,160 to North Carolina, for another autopsy." 580 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,360 What they're looking for, I'm really not sure. 581 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,600 The woman's been buried for 17 years. 582 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,880 The autopsy, the investigation, 583 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,960 everything that was conducted back in Germany... 584 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,880 ruled that it was an accident, she had a cerebral hemorrhage. 585 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,080 This is crazy. Absolutely crazy. 586 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,840 Disturbing a woman after 17 years for some... 587 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:41,920 wild guess, I guess. 588 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,440 We're not concerned about it, 'cause we know what happened. 589 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,840 We're disturbed that they feel it necessary 590 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,160 to exhume the body and disturb her peace. 591 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,240 The two girls, Martha and Margaret, are pretty well disturbed about it. 592 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,400 A little bit farther down. 593 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:24,760 Alright. 594 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:26,800 OK. 595 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:42,520 Oh, the flat headstone? OK. 596 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,360 I think I see it right here. There's four stakes in the ground. 597 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,200 Who's buried next to her? George? 598 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:49,760 OK. 599 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,760 They were married for a very short period of time. 600 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:18,680 They've been laying together here side-by-side for 17 years, 601 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,160 and now they're gonna move her out. 602 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,280 I know that captain would raise hell. 603 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,120 This is crazy. 604 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,680 Three, two, one. 605 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,760 The DA thinks there's enough similarities between the two deaths, 606 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,680 that they've had Elizabeth Ratliff's body exhumed from the Chap... 607 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,240 Blah, blah, blah. 608 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,680 Chapel Hill? I didn't know we were back in North Carolina. 609 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,120 North Cackalacky! 610 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,800 Three, two, one. 611 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,600 The DA thinks there's enough similarities between the two deaths 612 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,240 that they've had Ratliff's body exhumed from a cemetery here in Texas, 613 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,280 and brought to the medical examiner's office in Chapel Hill. 614 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:47,600 A little water in there. 615 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,080 - That's mostly condensation. - Yeah. 616 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,800 That's in great shape. 617 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,400 What a relief. 618 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,800 Adrian's coming around. This is my first. 619 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,240 My first! 620 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,080 Ratliff's body will be guarded the entire time it heads back to Chapel Hill. 621 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,680 That vehicle will be followed by Durham investigators, 622 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,280 and even when they spend the night in Alabama tonight, 623 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,640 there will be guards looking over the body. 624 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:32,160 She's expected to be back here... No "she." I can't say "she." 625 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,720 Three, two, one. 626 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,360 Now you got a long drive back? 627 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,120 We have a very long drive back. 628 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,280 - Anything else you wanna tell us? - No. 629 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:47,640 Thank you. 630 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:49,600 Well? 631 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,280 - Looks OK? - Y'all ready? 632 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,360 In which shape is...? 633 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:57,520 It's in great shape. 634 00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:58,920 - Great shape. - Great shape. 635 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:02,400 We didn't know what to expect, but things went well. 636 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,080 Things went very well. 637 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,680 Up till the death of Kathleen, 638 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,520 I really didn't know who Michael Peterson was, 639 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:18,960 other than being a writer. 640 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:24,320 And a military veteran. 641 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,440 I didn't know him personally, didn't know his character. 642 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,040 Who can do something like that? 643 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,720 Somebody's that's got a very, very bad temper. 644 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,400 Talking with witnesses, 645 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,280 and some of Elizabeth Ratliff's family members, 646 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,000 he's got a very bad temper. 647 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,560 A lot of people that I interviewed said they were the perfect couple. 648 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,000 "I wish I had a husband like that," but... 649 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,400 going back to the materials that we found in his computer and in his home, 650 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,040 he was not a happily married man to Kathleen Peterson. 651 00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:13,160 Hello? 652 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,080 Hey, how are you? 653 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,840 Everything went swell. 654 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,680 The vault was intact, as well as the casket. 655 00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:24,080 We're in Louisiana. 656 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,400 No, no, no, no. The casket has not been opened. 657 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,600 We're not touching that. No, no. That'll be opened Wednesday. 658 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,440 Anyway, I'm very optimistic about what our findings are going to be Wednesday. 659 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:39,880 That was Elizabeth's sister. 660 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,880 Margaret Blair. She lives in Rhode Island. 661 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:57,480 I expect him to be found guilty of killing his wife. 662 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,400 And I think after the autopsy tomorrow, 663 00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:04,320 people will have... 664 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,440 issues, I think, with the results of that, 665 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,400 as far as his involvement with the death of Elizabeth Ratliff. 666 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,240 We home. We home. 667 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,120 They could have had that autopsy done in Texas. 668 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,800 We suggested that they do it in Texas, with a neutral forensic pathologist, 669 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,600 and there are some world-class forensic pathologists there in Texas 670 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:54,960 who could have done that. 671 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,360 Instead, what the prosecutors did was they spent thousands of dollars 672 00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:04,880 transporting her body 1,200 miles from Bay City, Texas to Chapel Hill, 673 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,360 in order to allow Deborah Radisch, who had already concluded 674 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,200 that Kathleen Peterson's death was not accidental, 675 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,520 to perform the autopsy on Elizabeth Ratliff. 54595

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