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Previously on
"The Girl from Plainville"...
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I'm going to direct your attention
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to July 12th of 2014.
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That was the last day
you saw your son alive.
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How was he that day?
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I know my son.
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And he didn't want to die.
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Not that day.
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I'm here because of Michelle Carter.
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I don't like seeing
innocent people prosecuted.
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I want to help this girl.
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48 Hours wants to talk to me.
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- You gonna do it?
- He's not just
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a dead kid on the news, you know.
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He's Coco.
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Go away.
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What's wrong?
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I'm the murderer's sister,
that's what's wrong!
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Get the fuck out!
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Can you read
the highlighted text message
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from Michelle?
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"Then I am left crying in bed at night
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"because I have no one
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"and I have no plans, no future.
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I am nothing."
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If you ever tell anyone about me,
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I will never, ever
fucking talk to you again!
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Got it?
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Your text freaked me out.
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Call me back.
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I'm sorry.
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I didn't know you cared that much.
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How could you say that?
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I don't even have anybody's number.
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If something happened to you,
I wouldn't know who to call.
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I know, I know, I'm...
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I'm sorry, okay?
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Is this just a game to you?
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No.
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Then tell me what to do.
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Nothing.
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You've done plenty.
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What does that mean?
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You've been here for me.
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You've listened.
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It's just not enough.
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I'm never satisfied.
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I'm stuck.
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In my own little reality,
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and I thought everything
was good, but...
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It's not.
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I'm not going to leave you.
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You need me.
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Stay.
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Conrad?
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- Synced and corrected by synk -
- www.addic7ed.com -
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Carter has waived
her right to a jury trial,
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which means the judge alone will decide
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whether or not she is guilty.
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If convicted, she faces
up to 20 years in prison.
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Could you please describe
your educational background?
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I went to Harvard
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and Case Western Reserve Medical School,
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researching the
psychophysiology of anxiety.
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And can you please list and describe
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your professional activities?
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Oh, golly.
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There's a lot of them.
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I have been practicing psychiatry
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full time since 1968.
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I teach.
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I have a subspecialty
in clinical psychopharmacology.
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And what is that?
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It's the study of the effect of drugs
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on the actual clinical,
real-life behavior of people.
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And have you given any presentations
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for any governmental bodies?
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Yes.
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Well, thank you for carving out
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some time with us today, Dr. Breggin.
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You're quite a busy man.
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Of course. Thank you for the invitation.
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Your Honor.
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Move it along.
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Uh, Dr. Breggin,
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for our non-medical experts in the room,
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could you illustrate, uh,
for us what an SSRI is
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and how it affects the brain?
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The SSRI is a selective
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serotonin reuptake inhibitor.
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And what is serotonin?
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Serotonin is a neurotransmitter
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that originates deep in the brain.
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It can affect our judgment,
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love, and empathy.
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When serotonin is naturally
created by the brain,
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these... these receptors fire.
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And the idea behind people
who are depressed or... or angry
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is that maybe the feed
to the receptor gets backed up.
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The brain isn't doing its job.
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Right, and the SSRI, it... what?
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The SSRI,
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like Prozac and all SSRIs,
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blocks the removal of serotonin.
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And unfortunately,
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this is very unstable
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because the brain reacts
to this as a toxic intrusion.
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And how does the brain
react to this toxic intrusion?
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After the first dose even,
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the brain stops producing serotonin.
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So instead of creating a clear pathway
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for the serotonin to enter the brain,
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Prozac and other SSRIs can actually halt
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the natural production
of serotonin entirely?
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Yes, it's possible.
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Oh.
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Does the FDA identify
the SSRIs in a specific way?
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They developed a
black box warning that remains
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the highest level class warning
for all of these drugs.
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Does Celexa have a black box warning?
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Yes, it does.
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And do you know specifically
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what the black box warning is on Celexa?
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The black box warning specifically says
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that there's
an increased risk of suicide
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in people aged 24 and younger.
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And to the best of your knowledge,
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was Conrad Roy III
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on Celexa at the time of his death?
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Yes, he was.
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Thank you. No further questions.
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We'll break for lunch.
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Am I really selfish?
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No.
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Why?
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Well, for wanting to kill myself so bad
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and dragging you along with all this.
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No.
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You're not selfish.
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Don't ever think that.
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And you're not dragging me along.
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I chose to stay.
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I don't want to fail again.
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That's what I'm scared of.
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Obviously, you don't
really want to die then.
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Because you wouldn't be scared to try.
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You'd want to try anything
as much as you could.
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00:08:06,444 --> 00:08:08,780
I guess you're partially right.
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I'm just still
researching and hoping that
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I find a better way.
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I am so right.
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Part of me wants you
to try something and then fail.
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Just so you could go get help.
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I love you.
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Say it back.
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I love you too.
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I'm gonna turn in.
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Okay.
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You good?
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Yeah, I'm good.
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Don't stay up too late, okay?
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Hey.
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Can I get a beer?
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Is it over?
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Lunch.
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Thank you.
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Some of this stuff
this doctor's saying...
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We thought we'd be doing
the right thing.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I don't know.
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You know what I
can't stop thinking about?
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What?
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The fucking guacamole.
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I mean, how the hell has this kid
never had guacamole before?
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Well, I mean, it's not like
we're known for it here.
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Fair.
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Your mom says you're running.
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You even talked to my mom?
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Yeah, you sent her over to check on me.
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I just didn't like the idea
of you being alone, that's all.
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I'm training for the Boston Marathon.
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You?
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Yeah?
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00:10:51,943 --> 00:10:54,028
You who drives two blocks.
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I who used to drive two blocks.
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They say it makes your nipples bleed.
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00:11:03,246 --> 00:11:04,831
They're not lying.
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Hot.
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I'm doing it for suicide awareness.
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Running it, I mean.
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You know, raising money for it.
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That's good, Co.
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Yeah.
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He'd be real proud.
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I tried drinking all the water I could,
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but nothing happened.
199
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What the fuck is that?
200
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Why didn't you tell me you tried?
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All of a sudden, you're trying
and serious about it?
202
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I'm sorry, I want to tell you the truth,
203
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but I don't want to scare you.
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I want you to always tell me the truth.
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Never be sorry about it.
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I want it to look like an accident.
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Why?
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Well, I'd like people
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to think that and not feel guilty.
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Can I tell you something?
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Of course.
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There's nothing anyone can do
that's gonna make me want to live.
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Come on!
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Come in!
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00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:48,810
You okay?
216
00:12:48,810 --> 00:12:50,520
I can't really talk about it.
217
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,106
That doesn't sound good.
218
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"Ooh, Constantine!
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I love you, Constantine."
220
00:12:57,318 --> 00:12:58,945
- Give it back, Cassie...
- You guys write love letters.
221
00:12:58,945 --> 00:13:00,196
Ooh, does he send you dick pics?
222
00:13:00,196 --> 00:13:01,531
I said give it back!
223
00:13:01,531 --> 00:13:03,116
Jesus Christ, fine.
224
00:13:03,116 --> 00:13:04,325
I'm just playing.
225
00:13:04,325 --> 00:13:06,160
This is life and death, Cassie.
226
00:13:13,918 --> 00:13:15,545
Hey.
227
00:13:15,545 --> 00:13:17,630
I'm sorry about Cassie.
228
00:13:17,630 --> 00:13:19,382
- She was...
- Can be a bitch.
229
00:13:20,967 --> 00:13:22,635
Sometimes.
230
00:13:22,635 --> 00:13:25,221
Now he's not responding.
231
00:13:25,221 --> 00:13:26,806
Conrad?
232
00:13:28,808 --> 00:13:30,476
Talk to me.
233
00:13:32,395 --> 00:13:34,439
You can trust me.
234
00:13:34,439 --> 00:13:36,149
Can I?
235
00:13:36,149 --> 00:13:38,234
Of course.
236
00:13:38,234 --> 00:13:40,236
I'm here for you.
237
00:13:49,579 --> 00:13:52,415
God, he's so messed up.
238
00:14:02,633 --> 00:14:04,343
He'll only talk to me about things,
239
00:14:04,343 --> 00:14:08,347
and he said that he won't
be with me anymore
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00:14:08,347 --> 00:14:10,183
if I tell anyone.
241
00:14:10,183 --> 00:14:13,227
So you have to promise me, okay?
242
00:14:13,227 --> 00:14:14,937
You can't tell anyone, Natalie.
243
00:14:14,937 --> 00:14:16,147
Seriously.
244
00:14:16,147 --> 00:14:17,220
You have to promise.
245
00:14:17,245 --> 00:14:18,274
Of course.
246
00:14:18,274 --> 00:14:20,068
Of course, I won't say anything.
247
00:14:23,237 --> 00:14:25,281
Is there anything I can do?
248
00:14:29,702 --> 00:14:31,454
Oh, it's just...
249
00:14:31,454 --> 00:14:33,456
I don't even know where to begin.
250
00:14:37,011 --> 00:14:38,980
What information did you review
251
00:14:39,005 --> 00:14:41,022
in connection to this case?
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00:14:41,047 --> 00:14:42,965
Every available medical record
253
00:14:42,965 --> 00:14:45,134
for Michelle and Conrad.
254
00:14:45,134 --> 00:14:49,472
I evaluated every available text, uh,
255
00:14:49,472 --> 00:14:51,974
or phone or Facebook message
for both people.
256
00:14:51,974 --> 00:14:55,269
I interviewed a half a dozen people
257
00:14:55,269 --> 00:14:57,980
in great detail who knew Michelle.
258
00:14:57,980 --> 00:15:00,149
And... and why the interviews?
259
00:15:00,149 --> 00:15:02,985
I needed to get, uh, a baseline
260
00:15:02,985 --> 00:15:04,946
for Michelle's behavior.
261
00:15:04,946 --> 00:15:08,449
Was Michelle known to do
mean, angry, hostile things?
262
00:15:08,449 --> 00:15:12,328
Before age 12 was key for me
because at 12,
263
00:15:12,328 --> 00:15:16,874
she begins to develop anorexia
and is put on Prozac,
264
00:15:16,874 --> 00:15:19,210
and she's then medicated off and on
265
00:15:19,210 --> 00:15:21,546
for her entire adolescence.
266
00:15:21,546 --> 00:15:24,486
And did that
have any significance for you
267
00:15:24,511 --> 00:15:29,503
ultimately in forming
certain opinions on this case?
268
00:15:30,012 --> 00:15:32,640
It shows that
she's a very vulnerable person
269
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,725
who does very severe cutting of herself
270
00:15:34,725 --> 00:15:37,520
in order to control her pain.
271
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,230
And did the text messages
272
00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:42,191
between Michelle Carter and Conrad Roy
273
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have any relevance or significance
274
00:15:44,152 --> 00:15:46,988
to your clinical analysis of the case?
275
00:15:46,988 --> 00:15:47,989
Oh, yes.
276
00:15:47,989 --> 00:15:50,992
He's a very distressed young man
277
00:15:50,992 --> 00:15:52,743
who has a lot of family conflict
278
00:15:52,743 --> 00:15:56,789
that, uh, he's dealing with,
and he is constantly
279
00:15:56,789 --> 00:15:59,792
telling Michelle that
he's gonna kill himself
280
00:15:59,792 --> 00:16:01,669
and there's nothing she can do.
281
00:16:01,669 --> 00:16:03,546
And this goes on and on
282
00:16:03,546 --> 00:16:08,073
for hours and hours
and months and months of text.
283
00:16:08,801 --> 00:16:13,347
And she gets more and more desperate.
284
00:16:13,347 --> 00:16:16,225
And this boy that she loves
285
00:16:16,225 --> 00:16:19,145
says that he's going to kill himself
286
00:16:19,145 --> 00:16:22,315
and that he's even got plans.
287
00:16:22,315 --> 00:16:26,027
This is an intolerable position
for her to be in.
288
00:16:26,027 --> 00:16:28,988
Doctor.
289
00:16:28,988 --> 00:16:33,326
What is involuntary intoxication?
290
00:16:33,326 --> 00:16:36,287
It means that there's a disruption
291
00:16:36,287 --> 00:16:38,664
in the neurochemistry of the brain
292
00:16:38,664 --> 00:16:41,876
where intoxication is observable
293
00:16:41,876 --> 00:16:46,152
through thoughts
and behaviors, activities.
294
00:16:46,177 --> 00:16:48,674
And during an intoxication,
295
00:16:48,674 --> 00:16:52,094
the person generally
has loss of judgment,
296
00:16:52,094 --> 00:16:54,597
maybe confusion,
297
00:16:54,597 --> 00:16:57,850
and often loss of memory of the event.
298
00:16:57,850 --> 00:17:00,019
And how do you analyze and determine
299
00:17:00,019 --> 00:17:03,105
if someone is involuntarily
intoxicated by drugs?
300
00:17:03,105 --> 00:17:04,566
Well, first,
301
00:17:04,591 --> 00:17:07,068
you need to know, can the drug do this?
302
00:17:07,068 --> 00:17:08,861
Does Celexa?
303
00:17:08,861 --> 00:17:11,948
Do all SSRIs cause marked
changes in behavior?
304
00:17:11,948 --> 00:17:13,741
Yes.
305
00:17:13,741 --> 00:17:17,495
And when SSRIs cause abnormal reactions,
306
00:17:17,495 --> 00:17:21,040
which involuntary intoxication
is the extreme,
307
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,169
they cause agitation, anxiety, um,
308
00:17:25,169 --> 00:17:27,588
panic, irritability,
309
00:17:27,588 --> 00:17:31,467
and a dramatic, sometimes
instant, shift in behavior.
310
00:17:31,467 --> 00:17:33,511
It's in the diagnostic manual.
311
00:17:35,012 --> 00:17:36,180
And specifically,
312
00:17:36,180 --> 00:17:38,641
as to Michelle, do you have an opinion
313
00:17:38,641 --> 00:17:42,019
as to whether or not she was
involuntarily intoxicated?
314
00:17:42,019 --> 00:17:45,565
Yes, I do. Yes, she was.
315
00:17:45,565 --> 00:17:48,985
There's a significant change
in her behavior
316
00:17:48,985 --> 00:17:51,487
about 11 days before Conrad's suicide
317
00:17:51,487 --> 00:17:53,072
on July 12th.
318
00:17:53,072 --> 00:17:54,615
And as a result of this
319
00:17:54,615 --> 00:17:58,661
involuntary intoxication
suffered by Michelle Carter,
320
00:17:58,661 --> 00:18:00,496
do you have an opinion
as to whether or not
321
00:18:00,496 --> 00:18:02,915
she was able to conform
her actions and conduct
322
00:18:02,915 --> 00:18:05,626
to the requirements of the law?
323
00:18:05,626 --> 00:18:07,587
She couldn't.
324
00:18:07,587 --> 00:18:10,464
She was enmeshed in a delusion
325
00:18:10,464 --> 00:18:15,152
where she was thinking it was
a good thing to help him die,
326
00:18:15,511 --> 00:18:18,848
that she could mitigate
the circumstances,
327
00:18:18,848 --> 00:18:21,225
reassure him that he was
going to heaven,
328
00:18:21,225 --> 00:18:25,479
and that she could then go
to his family and help them
329
00:18:25,479 --> 00:18:28,316
to mourn less severely.
330
00:18:28,316 --> 00:18:30,943
And are you able to pinpoint,
331
00:18:30,943 --> 00:18:33,946
in your opinion, of course, around
332
00:18:33,946 --> 00:18:38,618
when Michelle became
involuntarily intoxicated?
333
00:18:38,618 --> 00:18:41,370
On or about July 2nd,
334
00:18:41,370 --> 00:18:43,998
she begins to help him go to heaven.
335
00:18:58,179 --> 00:19:02,016
I don't know if it's
bad or good that you
336
00:19:02,016 --> 00:19:04,018
understand me this way.
337
00:19:07,688 --> 00:19:11,567
If I do end up...
338
00:19:13,194 --> 00:19:14,987
Dying...
339
00:19:17,531 --> 00:19:20,159
I don't...
340
00:19:20,159 --> 00:19:22,036
want to go to hell.
341
00:19:23,746 --> 00:19:26,040
I don't belong there.
342
00:19:27,124 --> 00:19:30,002
You won't go to hell.
343
00:19:30,002 --> 00:19:32,296
I promise you.
344
00:19:32,296 --> 00:19:35,257
Heaven needs a hero.
345
00:19:40,888 --> 00:19:42,807
You're gonna help me with this tomorrow.
346
00:19:45,351 --> 00:19:47,645
With what?
347
00:19:50,398 --> 00:19:54,694
I've been reading
about it on the internet.
348
00:19:54,694 --> 00:19:58,364
I've been talking
to people online about it.
349
00:19:58,364 --> 00:19:59,865
Talking to who?
350
00:19:59,865 --> 00:20:01,242
I don't know,
351
00:20:01,242 --> 00:20:04,120
it's the internet.
352
00:20:07,081 --> 00:20:09,667
Are you really sure
you're gonna do this?
353
00:20:17,550 --> 00:20:21,261
I'm going to try again.
354
00:20:22,972 --> 00:20:25,224
When I'm home.
355
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,018
Tomorrow.
356
00:20:35,776 --> 00:20:38,070
Promise me something.
357
00:20:39,655 --> 00:20:42,032
Sure.
358
00:20:42,032 --> 00:20:44,869
Say goodbye before you do it.
359
00:20:44,869 --> 00:20:46,620
Of course.
360
00:20:50,624 --> 00:20:52,209
How's he doing?
361
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,256
Not good.
362
00:20:57,256 --> 00:20:59,925
Yeah.
363
00:20:59,925 --> 00:21:03,304
It's a good thing you're doing.
364
00:21:03,304 --> 00:21:04,680
Seriously.
365
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,682
He's really lucky
to have a friend like you.
366
00:21:11,479 --> 00:21:13,230
Girlfriend.
367
00:21:13,230 --> 00:21:14,315
Right.
368
00:21:14,315 --> 00:21:16,484
Girlfriend.
369
00:21:20,654 --> 00:21:22,573
Thanks, Cassie.
370
00:21:33,545 --> 00:21:35,595
Some things I've been doing is
371
00:21:35,620 --> 00:21:39,924
trying to realize that
it's not realistic.
372
00:21:39,924 --> 00:21:41,801
What's going on in my head
373
00:21:41,801 --> 00:21:44,845
that keeps on piling and piling?
374
00:21:44,845 --> 00:21:47,640
He wanted to excel.
375
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,093
He just wanted to be this,
like, great person.
376
00:21:52,770 --> 00:21:55,940
And in my eyes, he was all that.
377
00:21:55,940 --> 00:21:57,566
He was rough on himself.
378
00:21:57,566 --> 00:22:00,611
He really, really struggled
379
00:22:00,611 --> 00:22:05,417
with just disappointing,
I think, my husband and me.
380
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,878
I don't understand why you would want
381
00:22:13,207 --> 00:22:18,087
someone that was
so beautiful inside and out
382
00:22:18,087 --> 00:22:19,630
that had so much,
383
00:22:19,630 --> 00:22:23,676
that was such a kind person to die.
384
00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:28,389
How do you describe
385
00:22:28,389 --> 00:22:31,058
what this young woman did?
386
00:22:31,058 --> 00:22:32,935
I cannot.
387
00:22:32,935 --> 00:22:36,814
Only... only she can.
388
00:22:42,570 --> 00:22:45,614
Had to fight off a nurse for a cruller.
389
00:22:45,614 --> 00:22:47,908
Worth it.
390
00:22:47,908 --> 00:22:52,121
Any bright ideas in
the half hour I've been gone?
391
00:22:52,121 --> 00:22:53,789
No.
392
00:22:54,915 --> 00:22:56,625
I don't know how to get him.
393
00:22:56,625 --> 00:22:59,670
I... you saw, Moniz loves him.
394
00:22:59,670 --> 00:23:01,797
He trusts him.
395
00:23:01,797 --> 00:23:03,424
None of this was in the report.
396
00:23:03,424 --> 00:23:07,761
Nothing about cutting or...
Or "involuntary intoxication."
397
00:23:07,761 --> 00:23:10,431
I mean, what the hell even is that?
398
00:23:10,431 --> 00:23:13,434
I can't prepare overnight.
399
00:23:13,434 --> 00:23:14,685
Well, maybe that's it.
400
00:23:14,685 --> 00:23:17,563
I mean, he didn't say
any of it in the report.
401
00:23:19,023 --> 00:23:21,442
Gonna have to get him to bury himself.
402
00:23:24,987 --> 00:23:26,822
You said during your direct examination
403
00:23:26,822 --> 00:23:28,866
that the defendant
had been cutting, correct?
404
00:23:28,866 --> 00:23:31,285
Yes.
405
00:23:31,285 --> 00:23:33,913
Would you agree with me
that your initial
406
00:23:33,913 --> 00:23:35,581
60 or so page report
407
00:23:35,581 --> 00:23:38,584
didn't mention
anything about that, correct?
408
00:23:38,584 --> 00:23:40,836
Correct. I didn't have those texts.
409
00:23:40,836 --> 00:23:42,212
Would it be fair to say that
410
00:23:42,212 --> 00:23:45,925
her mother never reported
any concern about cutting?
411
00:23:45,925 --> 00:23:49,303
I didn't interview Mom in that depth.
412
00:23:49,303 --> 00:23:50,846
May I approach, Your Honor?
413
00:23:50,846 --> 00:23:53,098
Mm-hmm.
414
00:23:53,098 --> 00:23:56,310
Didn't you write here,
415
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:57,811
page 60,
416
00:23:57,811 --> 00:24:01,023
"Michelle's mother cannot
recall any bizarre behavior
417
00:24:01,023 --> 00:24:04,300
"on Michelle's part
at any time of her life,
418
00:24:04,325 --> 00:24:08,113
including during the period
of the alleged crime."
419
00:24:09,573 --> 00:24:11,158
Yes.
420
00:24:11,158 --> 00:24:13,953
So you at least talked
to her a little bit.
421
00:24:13,953 --> 00:24:15,704
Yes.
422
00:24:15,704 --> 00:24:17,247
And in that conversation,
423
00:24:17,247 --> 00:24:21,877
she did not report any concerns
about her daughter at all.
424
00:24:21,877 --> 00:24:24,630
No, she didn't.
425
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:27,007
The information that
you had about her cutting
426
00:24:27,007 --> 00:24:30,094
was based on text messages
with her friends?
427
00:24:30,094 --> 00:24:31,720
Yes.
428
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,889
And now, of course,
when you looked at these messages
429
00:24:33,889 --> 00:24:36,850
where she was talking about
how severely she cut herself,
430
00:24:36,850 --> 00:24:38,852
you would also look at other messages
431
00:24:38,852 --> 00:24:41,730
she sent to other people
contemporaneously?
432
00:24:41,730 --> 00:24:44,608
Yes, she often sent different messages
433
00:24:44,608 --> 00:24:46,073
to different people.
434
00:24:46,098 --> 00:24:48,487
And it would be significant to you
435
00:24:48,487 --> 00:24:52,408
if, uh, she was simultaneously
texting one person
436
00:24:52,408 --> 00:24:54,326
that she was cut so badly,
437
00:24:54,326 --> 00:24:56,245
she had to go to the emergency room
438
00:24:56,245 --> 00:24:58,247
and then a moment later, texting a boy
439
00:24:58,247 --> 00:24:59,790
something completely different.
440
00:24:59,790 --> 00:25:01,625
Yes, she did that a lot
441
00:25:01,625 --> 00:25:03,419
about a lot of different things.
442
00:25:03,419 --> 00:25:04,712
Yes.
443
00:25:04,712 --> 00:25:07,297
But in these texts,
444
00:25:07,297 --> 00:25:10,048
she is claiming that
she's talking to her mother
445
00:25:10,073 --> 00:25:12,344
about going to the hospital, correct?
446
00:25:12,344 --> 00:25:14,388
Yes.
447
00:25:14,388 --> 00:25:16,557
Isn't it true that at the initial outset
448
00:25:16,557 --> 00:25:19,226
of your involvement in this case,
449
00:25:19,226 --> 00:25:22,479
you did not diagnose
the defendant as depressed?
450
00:25:22,479 --> 00:25:25,149
Well, yes, that was the knowledge
451
00:25:25,149 --> 00:25:27,901
I had at the time.
452
00:25:27,901 --> 00:25:29,528
You were wrong?
453
00:25:29,528 --> 00:25:31,030
Oh, golly, yeah.
454
00:25:31,030 --> 00:25:34,158
You completely
misdiagnosed the defendant?
455
00:25:34,158 --> 00:25:35,701
- No.
- Well...
456
00:25:35,701 --> 00:25:38,579
I'm sorry, uh, you said
she wasn't depressed,
457
00:25:38,579 --> 00:25:40,748
and now you're saying she is?
458
00:25:40,748 --> 00:25:43,959
I literally did not
have enough information.
459
00:25:43,959 --> 00:25:47,713
And I didn't know that I didn't
have very much information.
460
00:25:47,713 --> 00:25:50,507
Oh, but when you
talked to the defendant...
461
00:25:52,134 --> 00:25:54,511
I never talked to the defendant.
462
00:26:02,144 --> 00:26:04,188
How many times
have you formed the opinion
463
00:26:04,188 --> 00:26:08,609
that a patient or someone
you've been asked to examine,
464
00:26:08,609 --> 00:26:12,529
uh, is involuntarily intoxicated?
465
00:26:12,529 --> 00:26:15,324
Golly, maybe...
466
00:26:15,324 --> 00:26:18,702
40 times over the last 20 years?
467
00:26:18,702 --> 00:26:20,245
It's really a wild guess.
468
00:26:22,664 --> 00:26:24,583
A wild guess.
469
00:26:24,583 --> 00:26:26,668
So one of the things you need to do
470
00:26:26,668 --> 00:26:29,546
in forming a baseline
is determining if the behavior
471
00:26:29,546 --> 00:26:33,717
during the period in question
is of stark contrast
472
00:26:33,717 --> 00:26:36,887
to his or her normal behavior, correct?
473
00:26:36,887 --> 00:26:38,263
Yes.
474
00:26:38,263 --> 00:26:41,225
Would you agree with me that
if your baseline is off,
475
00:26:41,225 --> 00:26:43,435
it could greatly affect your opinion?
476
00:26:43,435 --> 00:26:46,563
That's why I
carefully rechecked my opinion
477
00:26:46,563 --> 00:26:49,858
and found that everything
in there reconfirmed
478
00:26:49,858 --> 00:26:52,736
the date she had the breakdown
of the intoxication.
479
00:26:54,029 --> 00:26:58,408
Right, you... you were saying
that happened on, uh, July 2nd?
480
00:26:58,408 --> 00:26:59,426
Yes.
481
00:26:59,451 --> 00:27:03,122
It's important that
it happened on July 2nd
482
00:27:03,122 --> 00:27:05,374
because it shows that she had a break.
483
00:27:05,374 --> 00:27:09,253
She behaved one way
on July 1st and on July 2nd,
484
00:27:09,253 --> 00:27:11,713
she behaved entirely differently
485
00:27:11,713 --> 00:27:13,882
because of the intoxication,
486
00:27:13,882 --> 00:27:15,634
and it was completely
out of her control.
487
00:27:15,634 --> 00:27:17,511
Do... do I have that right?
488
00:27:17,511 --> 00:27:18,846
Yes.
489
00:27:24,059 --> 00:27:28,829
Uh, "What about hanging
yourself or stabbing yourself?"
490
00:27:29,147 --> 00:27:31,775
"What about overdosing on sleeping pills
491
00:27:31,775 --> 00:27:34,820
"or suffocating with a plastic bag?
492
00:27:34,820 --> 00:27:37,823
"Sleeping pills would work,
493
00:27:37,823 --> 00:27:39,741
"but if you really want to die,
494
00:27:39,741 --> 00:27:42,619
I don't get why you wouldn't try it."
495
00:27:42,619 --> 00:27:44,830
Yes, correct, exactly.
496
00:27:44,830 --> 00:27:47,749
But you said that her
behavior changed on July 2nd?
497
00:27:47,749 --> 00:27:48,834
Yes.
498
00:27:48,834 --> 00:27:51,461
Well, these text messages
499
00:27:51,461 --> 00:27:53,881
from Michelle Carter to Conrad Roy
500
00:27:53,881 --> 00:27:58,760
were sent on June 29th, 2014.
501
00:28:02,389 --> 00:28:05,434
You're taking my words out of context.
502
00:28:05,434 --> 00:28:07,269
Okay.
503
00:28:07,269 --> 00:28:09,021
May I approach?
504
00:28:12,399 --> 00:28:16,278
Can you please tell the court
what this book is?
505
00:28:16,278 --> 00:28:20,657
Yes, it's the Diagnostic
and Statistical Manual
506
00:28:20,657 --> 00:28:23,327
of Mental Disorders, the DSM-5.
507
00:28:23,327 --> 00:28:27,915
An encyclopedia of every
diagnosed mental disorder.
508
00:28:27,915 --> 00:28:29,416
Yes.
509
00:28:29,416 --> 00:28:31,543
Could you grab the section that covers
510
00:28:31,543 --> 00:28:33,962
involuntary intoxication for me, please?
511
00:28:33,962 --> 00:28:38,091
Well, there is no section
on involuntary intoxication.
512
00:28:38,091 --> 00:28:39,635
It's a legal term.
513
00:28:42,763 --> 00:28:45,015
Well, then, what are
you diagnosing her with?
514
00:28:45,015 --> 00:28:47,935
Oh, she has drug intoxication.
515
00:28:47,935 --> 00:28:50,354
It's in the general group...
516
00:28:50,354 --> 00:28:51,563
Of substance-induced
517
00:28:51,563 --> 00:28:52,665
mood disorders.
518
00:28:52,690 --> 00:28:54,983
- So it's not in there.
- Well, it's...
519
00:28:54,983 --> 00:28:57,027
Sir, I'm asking whether or not
520
00:28:57,027 --> 00:29:00,280
the DSM-5 has a specific criteria
521
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,576
for the diagnosis
of involuntary intoxication,
522
00:29:04,576 --> 00:29:07,621
the diagnosis that you are
providing for the defendant.
523
00:29:07,621 --> 00:29:08,914
Is it in there?
524
00:29:08,914 --> 00:29:11,166
Well, no.
525
00:29:11,166 --> 00:29:13,543
- It's a legal...
- Legal term.
526
00:29:15,629 --> 00:29:16,797
I tender the witness, Your Honor.
527
00:30:08,849 --> 00:30:10,934
Sorry, I took some sleeping pills
528
00:30:10,934 --> 00:30:12,936
and I fell asleep.
529
00:30:21,695 --> 00:30:25,032
You said you wanted this bad.
530
00:30:27,117 --> 00:30:29,369
I knew you wouldn't try hard.
531
00:30:29,369 --> 00:30:31,955
I feel like such an idiot.
532
00:30:31,955 --> 00:30:33,623
Why?
533
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,505
Because you didn't even do anything.
534
00:30:40,505 --> 00:30:42,924
You lied about this whole thing.
535
00:30:44,217 --> 00:30:46,511
I'm just...
536
00:30:46,511 --> 00:30:49,097
I'm just so confused because...
537
00:30:55,437 --> 00:30:59,566
I thought you really wanted to die.
538
00:30:59,566 --> 00:31:02,194
But apparently you don't.
539
00:31:05,363 --> 00:31:08,909
I just feel played and just stupid.
540
00:31:08,909 --> 00:31:10,494
Don't.
541
00:31:10,494 --> 00:31:14,576
I found out a new plan,
and I'm gonna do it.
542
00:31:18,919 --> 00:31:20,837
I don't believe you.
543
00:31:23,757 --> 00:31:27,385
You're gonna have to prove me wrong
544
00:31:27,385 --> 00:31:30,889
because I don't think
you really want this.
545
00:31:30,889 --> 00:31:33,558
You just keep pushing it
to another night.
546
00:31:36,853 --> 00:31:38,772
And you never do it.
547
00:31:44,945 --> 00:31:47,155
Okay.
548
00:31:47,155 --> 00:31:49,449
- Okay what?
- Okay.
549
00:31:49,449 --> 00:31:51,618
I'll prove you wrong.
550
00:32:09,535 --> 00:32:12,972
_
551
00:32:12,997 --> 00:32:17,167
_
552
00:32:25,081 --> 00:32:26,941
If I were that judge,
553
00:32:26,966 --> 00:32:28,905
you know what I'd say?
554
00:32:28,905 --> 00:32:30,448
"Your parents aren't going to miss you
555
00:32:30,448 --> 00:32:33,493
if you're locked up
for the next 30 years."
556
00:32:33,493 --> 00:32:35,537
- This is evil.
- Turn it off.
557
00:32:35,537 --> 00:32:36,913
Where does evil come from?
558
00:32:36,913 --> 00:32:38,039
- It's the news.
- Your sister does not
559
00:32:38,039 --> 00:32:39,040
need to hear this right now.
560
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:40,292
Turn it off, Hayden.
561
00:32:40,292 --> 00:32:42,043
He was an easy target.
562
00:32:42,043 --> 00:32:45,297
It's all about attention,
people noticing her.
563
00:32:46,333 --> 00:32:47,757
We're just supposed to ignore it?
564
00:32:47,757 --> 00:32:49,384
I'm not doing this
with you right now, sorry.
565
00:32:49,384 --> 00:32:50,886
No, you know what everyone thinks of me
566
00:32:50,886 --> 00:32:52,762
in school, in this town?
567
00:32:52,762 --> 00:32:55,098
Hayden, I am sorry,
but this is not helping.
568
00:32:55,098 --> 00:32:56,558
We can't be watching
this garbage right now.
569
00:32:56,558 --> 00:32:57,976
- You should go get ready.
- No, you always yell
570
00:32:57,976 --> 00:33:00,228
at me and I don't understand.
It's always about her.
571
00:33:00,228 --> 00:33:01,563
- Don't be dramatic.
- I'm serious.
572
00:33:01,563 --> 00:33:03,690
All you do is focus on her,
talk about her.
573
00:33:03,690 --> 00:33:06,526
Your closing argument, Mr. Cataldo.
574
00:33:13,491 --> 00:33:17,370
The medical examiner
ruled the death a suicide.
575
00:33:17,370 --> 00:33:19,372
Now, there's no statute
in the state of Massachusetts
576
00:33:19,372 --> 00:33:21,374
outlawing suicide, there's no statute
577
00:33:21,374 --> 00:33:23,251
in the state of Massachusetts that says
578
00:33:23,251 --> 00:33:25,128
it's against the law to help
579
00:33:25,128 --> 00:33:28,590
or assist in a suicide.
580
00:33:28,590 --> 00:33:30,759
The evidence shows that Conrad Roy
581
00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:34,262
was suicidal for a very,
very lengthy period of time.
582
00:33:34,262 --> 00:33:37,057
That comes out in the text
messages very clearly,
583
00:33:37,057 --> 00:33:39,517
and Miss Carter was under no legal duty
584
00:33:39,517 --> 00:33:42,062
to call for assistance.
585
00:33:42,062 --> 00:33:44,564
The evidence also shows
in the text messages
586
00:33:44,564 --> 00:33:47,067
that Conrad Roy
587
00:33:47,067 --> 00:33:50,445
specifically sought out
her encouragement.
588
00:33:52,072 --> 00:33:53,281
Your Honor, I believe that
589
00:33:53,281 --> 00:33:54,574
the Commonwealth has failed to provide
590
00:33:54,574 --> 00:33:58,286
any evidence that
Miss Carter caused him to die.
591
00:33:59,287 --> 00:34:00,455
Thank you.
592
00:34:00,455 --> 00:34:02,791
Thank you, Mr. Cataldo.
593
00:34:04,626 --> 00:34:07,003
Who's arguing for the Commonwealth?
594
00:34:07,003 --> 00:34:08,213
Okay.
595
00:34:08,213 --> 00:34:09,339
Okay.
596
00:34:15,762 --> 00:34:17,722
I'm not just gonna stand here and say,
597
00:34:17,722 --> 00:34:19,307
"Look at Commonwealth v. Carter"
598
00:34:19,307 --> 00:34:21,059
and sit down, Your Honor.
599
00:34:21,059 --> 00:34:23,937
With regards
to the offense of manslaughter,
600
00:34:23,937 --> 00:34:26,815
I would, uh,
suggest that the Commonwealth
601
00:34:26,815 --> 00:34:30,235
needed to prove that
the conduct was intentional,
602
00:34:30,235 --> 00:34:32,195
not that the outcome was intentional,
603
00:34:32,195 --> 00:34:34,531
but that the conduct was.
604
00:34:34,531 --> 00:34:36,616
I believe we have done that.
605
00:34:36,616 --> 00:34:40,120
Your Honor, I ask that you consider
606
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,331
not just what you know about Conrad,
607
00:34:43,331 --> 00:34:45,417
but what you have learned
about the defendant
608
00:34:45,417 --> 00:34:48,003
through the course of all this.
609
00:34:48,003 --> 00:34:50,880
The defendant clearly had many,
610
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,176
what she believed, to be
substantial relationships,
611
00:34:55,176 --> 00:34:57,137
mostly through texting.
612
00:34:57,137 --> 00:34:59,889
And for Mr. Cataldo to suggest
613
00:34:59,889 --> 00:35:04,644
that Conrad had free will
is an oversimplification
614
00:35:04,644 --> 00:35:07,063
because she knew him.
615
00:35:07,063 --> 00:35:09,149
She knew he had social anxiety.
616
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:15,113
She knew that he was depressed.
617
00:35:15,113 --> 00:35:17,699
She knew his frailties.
618
00:35:17,699 --> 00:35:21,828
And not only that, Your Honor,
she knew what it was like
619
00:35:21,828 --> 00:35:25,582
to feel lonely
and want someone to talk to.
620
00:35:25,582 --> 00:35:28,543
And she did talk to him that night
621
00:35:28,543 --> 00:35:32,797
and she told him
to get back in the truck.
622
00:35:32,797 --> 00:35:35,467
Yes, the medical examiner
has said this is a suicide,
623
00:35:35,467 --> 00:35:37,552
but she is not the final determiner
624
00:35:37,552 --> 00:35:39,220
of what the crime here is.
625
00:35:39,220 --> 00:35:41,306
You are, Your Honor.
626
00:35:43,308 --> 00:35:45,226
Thank you.
627
00:36:05,997 --> 00:36:07,749
We should go home.
628
00:36:09,542 --> 00:36:11,628
We're here for your sister.
629
00:36:13,463 --> 00:36:15,507
She doesn't want me here.
630
00:36:15,507 --> 00:36:18,385
Well, your mother
needed to take a night off.
631
00:36:22,931 --> 00:36:25,642
Do you think the judge likes me?
632
00:36:31,523 --> 00:36:34,484
It doesn't have anything
to do with him liking you.
633
00:36:43,118 --> 00:36:46,871
Is that... what the...
The doctor was saying,
634
00:36:46,871 --> 00:36:48,581
is that what happened?
635
00:36:51,376 --> 00:36:53,086
Did you black out?
636
00:37:05,014 --> 00:37:06,391
I wish you would talk to me.
637
00:37:06,391 --> 00:37:09,686
I wish you knew that
you could talk to me.
638
00:37:10,687 --> 00:37:12,731
I...
639
00:37:17,235 --> 00:37:19,237
I love you no matter what.
640
00:37:20,613 --> 00:37:23,074
I will always be here for you,
641
00:37:23,074 --> 00:37:25,118
no matter what.
642
00:37:30,999 --> 00:37:34,085
You should just go in without me.
643
00:37:36,713 --> 00:37:39,299
I can't.
644
00:37:39,299 --> 00:37:40,633
It's okay.
645
00:37:40,633 --> 00:37:44,137
No, you're not allowed to be left alone.
646
00:37:46,556 --> 00:37:48,141
We'll just let them get
through the first few songs
647
00:37:48,141 --> 00:37:50,059
and then we'll go in.
648
00:38:15,627 --> 00:38:17,378
I'd like to perform a song for someone
649
00:38:17,378 --> 00:38:19,631
very special to me that's here tonight.
650
00:38:19,631 --> 00:38:22,467
My sister, Michelle.
651
00:38:22,467 --> 00:38:24,594
Michelle, come up here.
652
00:38:29,307 --> 00:38:31,518
- Come on.
- Go on.
653
00:39:04,425 --> 00:39:05,635
Sit.
654
00:39:20,608 --> 00:39:23,611
♪ Her name is Noelle ♪
655
00:39:23,611 --> 00:39:26,281
♪ I have a dream about her ♪
656
00:39:26,281 --> 00:39:28,658
♪ She rings my bell ♪
657
00:39:28,658 --> 00:39:31,661
♪ Got gym class in half an hour ♪
658
00:39:31,661 --> 00:39:34,080
♪ Oh, how she rocks ♪
659
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,708
♪ In Keds and tube socks ♪
660
00:39:36,708 --> 00:39:42,213
♪ But she doesn't know who I am ♪
661
00:39:42,213 --> 00:39:47,218
♪ 'Cause I'm just ♪
♪ A teenage dirtbag, baby ♪
662
00:39:47,218 --> 00:39:52,724
♪ Yeah, I'm just ♪
♪ A teenage dirtbag, baby ♪
663
00:39:52,724 --> 00:39:57,395
♪ Listen to Iron Maiden, baby ♪
664
00:39:57,395 --> 00:39:59,439
♪ With me ♪
665
00:39:59,439 --> 00:40:03,234
♪ Ooh ♪
666
00:40:03,234 --> 00:40:05,862
♪ Her boyfriend's a dick ♪
667
00:40:05,862 --> 00:40:10,950
♪ He brings a gun to school, ♪
♪ And he'd simply kick ♪
668
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:13,870
♪ My ass if he knew the truth ♪
669
00:40:13,870 --> 00:40:16,289
♪ He lives on my block ♪
670
00:40:16,289 --> 00:40:18,833
♪ He drives an IROC ♪
671
00:40:18,833 --> 00:40:24,380
♪ But he doesn't know who I am ♪
672
00:40:24,380 --> 00:40:29,469
♪ And he doesn't give a damn about me ♪
673
00:40:29,469 --> 00:40:34,599
♪ 'Cause I'm just ♪
♪ A teenage dirtbag, baby ♪
674
00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:40,271
♪ Yeah, I'm just ♪
♪ A teenage dirtbag, baby ♪
675
00:40:40,271 --> 00:40:44,567
♪ Listen to Iron Maiden, baby ♪
676
00:40:44,567 --> 00:40:46,319
♪ With me ♪
677
00:40:49,405 --> 00:40:52,075
♪ Oh, yeah ♪
678
00:40:52,075 --> 00:40:55,495
♪ Dirtbag ♪
679
00:40:55,495 --> 00:40:59,707
♪ She doesn't know what she's missing ♪
680
00:40:59,707 --> 00:41:02,502
♪ Oh, yeah ♪
681
00:41:02,502 --> 00:41:04,921
♪ Dirtbag ♪
682
00:41:04,921 --> 00:41:06,798
♪ No, she doesn't know ♪
683
00:41:06,798 --> 00:41:07,966
♪ What she's missing ♪
684
00:41:07,966 --> 00:41:09,884
Stop!
685
00:41:12,261 --> 00:41:13,596
You okay?
686
00:41:13,596 --> 00:41:17,684
♪ Can anybody find me ♪
687
00:41:17,684 --> 00:41:23,481
♪ Somebody to ♪
688
00:41:23,481 --> 00:41:27,933
♪ Love ♪
689
00:41:32,490 --> 00:41:36,490
- Synced and corrected by synk -
- www.addic7ed.com -
47945
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