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GLITTER: Gary Glitter can be the
most eccentric person in the world,
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00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:23.960 align:middle line:-2
Paul Gadd can't be.
3
00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:25.960 align:middle line:-3
You know,
he's just like everybody else.
4
00:00:25.960 --> 00:00:28.160 align:middle line:-3
But Gary Glitter can be...
He can fly.
5
00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:30.960 align:middle line:-3
He can, you know,
he's much larger than life.
6
00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:33.960 align:middle line:-3
So they are two different people?
Oh, sure, you know.
7
00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:37.960 align:middle line:-3
I mean, he is a bit of a monster
between you and I, you know,
8
00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.960 align:middle line:-3
and he's getting bigger
all the time, of course.
9
00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:51.960 align:middle line:-2
# Rock and roll, rock and roll
10
00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:53.960 align:middle line:-2
# Rock and roll, rock... #
11
00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:56.960 align:middle line:-2
Kids did love him.
12
00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:01.960 align:middle line:-3
He was a larger-than-life character
on screen and on the stage.
13
00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:05.960 align:middle line:-3
They thought they knew him because
of what they saw on television.
14
00:01:05.960 --> 00:01:09.960 align:middle line:-3
But, of course, they didn't.
It was an illusion.
15
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Have you heard about my reputation?
No. Tell me.
16
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We want to hear
about your reputation.
17
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There's a microphone down there.
HE LAUGHS
18
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It's almost as if they're having
a little private joke
19
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about what each of them was up to.
20
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It was a tidal wave, really.
I was on a roller-coaster.
21
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I mean, in some ways,
it was wonderful,
22
00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:29.960 align:middle line:-3
but also,
there was this very dark side.
23
00:01:38.960 --> 00:01:40.960 align:middle line:-3
My client was 12 years old
at the time.
24
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She was repeatedly raped by him,
25
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and the manner in which
he did all of that
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was particularly depraved
and revolting.
27
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I think there was real shock
in the courtroom
28
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that the youngest victim
was eight years old.
29
00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:12.960 align:middle line:-2
For Glitter, I looked at the case.
30
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It was, again, for paedophilia,
31
00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:17.960 align:middle line:-3
but I remember
it was also about boys and girls.
32
00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:20.960 align:middle line:-3
For any young person meeting
their hero
33
00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:24.960 align:middle line:-3
or meeting someone famous,
it should be a moment of joy.
34
00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:25.960 align:middle line:-2
In the case of Gadd,
35
00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:28.960 align:middle line:-3
these young girls met
an absolute monster.
36
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# Come on, come on
Come on, come on
37
00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:43.960 align:middle line:-2
# Come on, come on
38
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# Come on, come on
Come on, come on
39
00:02:49.320 --> 00:02:51.960 align:middle line:-3
# Come on, come on, come on
And I say
40
00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:53.960 align:middle line:-2
# Come on, come on... #
41
00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:56.320 align:middle line:-3
Everybody used to watch
Top Of The Pops - everybody.
42
00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:00.800 align:middle line:-3
And Gary Glitter come on.
He looked different.
43
00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:02.640 align:middle line:-2
# Come on, come on, come on
44
00:03:02.640 --> 00:03:03.960 align:middle line:-2
# Come on... #
45
00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:05.960 align:middle line:-2
Glam rock was like an explosion.
46
00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:08.960 align:middle line:-3
It was like something
you'd never seen before.
47
00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:11.800 align:middle line:-3
Before glam rock,
you had all the teenage boys,
48
00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:12.960 align:middle line:-2
like myself, who were skinheads.
49
00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:14.960 align:middle line:-2
What glam rock did was
50
00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:17.480 align:middle line:-5
we were all into, like,
shaved heads, following Slade.
51
00:03:17.480 --> 00:03:19.960 align:middle line:-5
We saw glam rock
on Top Of The Pops.
52
00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:21.960 align:middle line:-2
We all grew our hair, dyed it red,
53
00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:24.320 align:middle line:-3
put in little bits of glitter
on our faces and all that.
54
00:03:24.320 --> 00:03:26.960 align:middle line:-3
It was so far removed
from real life.
55
00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:33.960 align:middle line:-3
# I can take you high as a kite
Every single night... #
56
00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:37.640 align:middle line:-3
It inspired you that there was more
to life than nine-to-five boredom.
57
00:03:37.640 --> 00:03:39.960 align:middle line:-2
It made you go from grey to colour.
58
00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:51.000 align:middle line:-3
Glam rock sort of came
into two camps.
59
00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:54.960 align:middle line:-3
There was the cool teenagers,
who liked the proper glam rock,
60
00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:57.960 align:middle line:-3
which was your David Bowie,
Mark Bolan, Alice Cooper,
61
00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:01.000 align:middle line:-3
and there was the under 12s,
who liked Gary Glitter.
62
00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:05.960 align:middle line:-3
GIRL: What made you want
to be a singer?
63
00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:07.960 align:middle line:-2
I've always wanted to be a singer.
64
00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:10.960 align:middle line:-3
Since my...
My uncle John used to be...
65
00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:12.960 align:middle line:-2
When I was about two years of age,
66
00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:14.960 align:middle line:-3
my uncle John used
to come into the room,
67
00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:16.320 align:middle line:-3
and we used to have
fancy dress parties
68
00:04:16.320 --> 00:04:18.800 align:middle line:-3
in Banbury, in Oxfordshire,
where I was born.
69
00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:19.960 align:middle line:-2
And he used to sing,
70
00:04:19.960 --> 00:04:21.960 align:middle line:-3
and all the girls used to go mad,
you know,
71
00:04:21.960 --> 00:04:24.640 align:middle line:-3
and I thought, "That's not
a bad job when I grow up."
72
00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:26.960 align:middle line:-3
Of course, I haven't grown up yet,
but when I do,
73
00:04:26.960 --> 00:04:28.960 align:middle line:-3
that's what I would like to be,
a singer.
74
00:04:31.960 --> 00:04:33.960 align:middle line:-2
The childhood was quite interesting
75
00:04:33.960 --> 00:04:36.320 align:middle line:-3
because there was a lot of things
that happened to me.
76
00:04:36.320 --> 00:04:38.960 align:middle line:-3
I mean, my mum
was between marriages,
77
00:04:38.960 --> 00:04:41.960 align:middle line:-3
so my brother and I, Tony,
got put into a children's home.
78
00:04:41.960 --> 00:04:44.320 align:middle line:-3
And once you go into
those institutions,
79
00:04:44.320 --> 00:04:46.960 align:middle line:-3
you know, it was only supposed
to be a couple of weekends.
80
00:04:46.960 --> 00:04:48.960 align:middle line:-3
But in fact,
it turned out for two years.
81
00:04:48.960 --> 00:04:51.960 align:middle line:-2
That was quite painful.
82
00:04:51.960 --> 00:04:53.960 align:middle line:2
I used to get up
at five o'clock in the morning,
83
00:04:53.960 --> 00:04:55.960 align:middle line:2
light all the fires,
do all the potatoes,
84
00:04:55.960 --> 00:04:58.800 align:middle line:2
you know, clean all their shoes
and things like this.
85
00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:01.960 align:middle line:2
I was 11 years of age,
so I wanted to get out of that.
86
00:05:01.960 --> 00:05:05.960 align:middle line:2
And fame was the thing
that I wanted.
87
00:05:05.960 --> 00:05:07.960 align:middle line:-2
CROWD CHEERS
88
00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:14.960 align:middle line:-2
WOMAN: Thank you! And welcome...
89
00:05:15.960 --> 00:05:18.960 align:middle line:-2
Welcome...
90
00:05:18.960 --> 00:05:24.960 align:middle line:-5
Welcome to The Saturday Scene
British Pop Awards of 1975!
91
00:05:24.960 --> 00:05:26.960 align:middle line:-3
We've got a great show
lined up for you.
92
00:05:26.960 --> 00:05:29.960 align:middle line:-3
'Saturday Scene
was very, very popular.
93
00:05:29.960 --> 00:05:32.960 align:middle line:-3
'It was a fantastic atmosphere,
I do remember that.
94
00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:39.960 align:middle line:-3
'They adored him.
They really did adore him.
95
00:05:39.960 --> 00:05:40.960 align:middle line:-2
'His audience loved him.
96
00:05:48.960 --> 00:05:50.960 align:middle line:-3
'So there would have been
a lot of kids.
97
00:05:53.960 --> 00:05:55.960 align:middle line:-2
'Maybe seven or eight, that young.'
98
00:05:56.960 --> 00:06:00.960 align:middle line:-3
And then all the teenagers
that were allowed to go on their own
99
00:06:00.960 --> 00:06:03.960 align:middle line:-3
and probably with a parent
anxiously waiting in the car park.
100
00:06:03.960 --> 00:06:04.960 align:middle line:-2
So it was a very young audience,
101
00:06:04.960 --> 00:06:07.960 align:middle line:-3
hence the squealing
and the shouting.
102
00:06:09.960 --> 00:06:11.960 align:middle line:-2
His energy levels were so high.
103
00:06:11.960 --> 00:06:15.960 align:middle line:-3
Like, he's stomping around,
and he's fist-pumping.
104
00:06:15.960 --> 00:06:18.960 align:middle line:-3
It was glamorous. It was rock,
it was, you know, Glitter.
105
00:06:21.960 --> 00:06:24.960 align:middle line:-3
Everything he was doing
was larger than life.
106
00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:30.960 align:middle line:-3
You might be able to tell
who the mystery guest is,
107
00:06:30.960 --> 00:06:32.960 align:middle line:-3
but just in case
you're in any doubt,
108
00:06:32.960 --> 00:06:34.960 align:middle line:-2
let's whip off the paper bag,
109
00:06:34.960 --> 00:06:36.960 align:middle line:-3
Argh!
Yes, it's Gary Glitter!
110
00:06:36.960 --> 00:06:39.480 align:middle line:-3
It's me!
What an outfit!
111
00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:41.480 align:middle line:-3
Look at this outfit!
Da-da-da!
112
00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:44.320 align:middle line:-3
Fantastic! Actually, I've gotta get
an outfit like that!
113
00:06:44.320 --> 00:06:45.960 align:middle line:-2
'I think he was quite childlike.'
114
00:06:45.960 --> 00:06:49.960 align:middle line:-3
Hello.
LAUGHTER
115
00:06:49.960 --> 00:06:51.320 align:middle line:-2
In Tiswas, we used to have
116
00:06:51.320 --> 00:06:54.960 align:middle line:-3
50 completely over-excitable
children every week.
117
00:06:54.960 --> 00:06:55.960 align:middle line:-2
So by the time they arrived,
118
00:06:55.960 --> 00:06:59.960 align:middle line:-3
and they would see buckets of water
and custard pies lying around.
119
00:06:59.960 --> 00:07:02.960 align:middle line:-3
A level of excitement
that was off the scale.
120
00:07:02.960 --> 00:07:04.960 align:middle line:-2
Hello, who's there?
121
00:07:04.960 --> 00:07:06.960 align:middle line:-3
Juno.
Juno who?
122
00:07:06.960 --> 00:07:08.960 align:middle line:-2
Juno what time it is?
123
00:07:08.960 --> 00:07:12.000 align:middle line:-3
'He was just really enjoying
the moment.'
124
00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:13.960 align:middle line:-2
If you look over here, Gary...
125
00:07:13.960 --> 00:07:15.960 align:middle line:-2
It's allowed. Now, wait a minute.
126
00:07:15.960 --> 00:07:19.640 align:middle line:-3
It says, "And now for some music,
here's Bar..."
127
00:07:19.640 --> 00:07:20.960 align:middle line:-2
Barry what?!
128
00:07:20.960 --> 00:07:23.960 align:middle line:-3
And I don't think anyone
would have thought anything weird
129
00:07:23.960 --> 00:07:25.960 align:middle line:-3
about any of the guests
and the children.
130
00:07:25.960 --> 00:07:27.960 align:middle line:-3
It just wouldn't have crossed
our mind.
131
00:07:27.960 --> 00:07:29.960 align:middle line:-2
And if I think back now,
132
00:07:29.960 --> 00:07:33.960 align:middle line:-3
no wonder Gary Glitter
was always polite and nice to me
133
00:07:33.960 --> 00:07:36.000 align:middle line:-3
because that gives him access
to more children,
134
00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:38.960 align:middle line:-3
more whatever it is that
he was trying to gain access to,
135
00:07:38.960 --> 00:07:42.960 align:middle line:-3
which makes it even more sickening
when you think back.
136
00:07:42.960 --> 00:07:46.960 align:middle line:-2
# I love you, love
137
00:07:46.960 --> 00:07:48.960 align:middle line:-2
# You love me, too, love
138
00:07:48.960 --> 00:07:52.160 align:middle line:-2
# I love you, love me... #
139
00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:53.960 align:middle line:-2
Wait, wait, wait!
140
00:07:53.960 --> 00:07:56.800 align:middle line:-3
Because it would have to be the one
and only Gary Glitter in person.
141
00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:57.960 align:middle line:-3
Gary!
APPLAUSE
142
00:08:04.960 --> 00:08:09.160 align:middle line:-3
Do young ladies go to great lengths
to get next to you, as it were?
143
00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:10.960 align:middle line:-3
Yeah, thank goodness.
Oh.
144
00:08:10.960 --> 00:08:13.960 align:middle line:-3
I go to great lengths
to get next to them, too.
145
00:08:15.640 --> 00:08:16.960 align:middle line:-2
"It's mutual," he says.
146
00:08:16.960 --> 00:08:18.160 align:middle line:-3
I'm having a look
round the audience now
147
00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:19.960 align:middle line:-2
to see if there's anyone I fancy.
148
00:08:19.960 --> 00:08:21.960 align:middle line:-3
We've got some on
the bean bags lined up for you.
149
00:08:21.960 --> 00:08:22.960 align:middle line:-3
Lovely.
We always line our artists up.
150
00:08:22.960 --> 00:08:26.960 align:middle line:2
You can see the sway that they held
over the audience, can't you,
151
00:08:26.960 --> 00:08:29.960 align:middle line:2
none of whom
would ever have imagined...
152
00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:34.960 align:middle line:2
..what, even at that time,
those two were both doing.
153
00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:37.000 align:middle line:-3
I am going to perform
on television just now
154
00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:39.960 align:middle line:-3
a feat which will make me
out of friends
155
00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:41.960 align:middle line:-2
with about 49 million young ladies
156
00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:43.960 align:middle line:-3
because I am going
to give Mr Gary Glitter away.
157
00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:45.960 align:middle line:-3
I'm actually going to give him
to a girl, see.
158
00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:48.960 align:middle line:-2
Over here. Over here.
159
00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:51.960 align:middle line:-2
Now, then, I think...
160
00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:54.160 align:middle line:-3
Would you like Mr Glitter
next to you two ladies?
161
00:08:54.160 --> 00:08:57.960 align:middle line:-3
One can't necessarily say
when it started.
162
00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:02.960 align:middle line:-2
But what I do know is that in 1975,
163
00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:05.960 align:middle line:-3
and he will then
have been aged about 31,
164
00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:09.960 align:middle line:-3
he had already attempted to rape
an eight-year-old girl.
165
00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.960 align:middle line:-2
'And he did it in his own home.
166
00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:17.960 align:middle line:-2
'She was a friend of the family.'
167
00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.960 align:middle line:-3
There was an occasion when he had
a dinner party downstairs,
168
00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:24.960 align:middle line:-3
and it was after the dinner party
was over that he came upstairs
169
00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:27.960 align:middle line:-3
to where she was sleeping
and came into her room,
170
00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:30.960 align:middle line:-3
and she could remember
the repellent smell
171
00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:32.960 align:middle line:-3
of alcohol and cigarettes
on his breath.
172
00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:38.960 align:middle line:-2
'She later gave an interview
173
00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:40.960 align:middle line:-3
'describing what she said
had happened to her.'
174
00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:44.960 align:middle line:-2
RECORDING: By now, he turned to me.
175
00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:50.960 align:middle line:-5
And at first, I thought
he was just maybe cuddling me and...
176
00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:52.960 align:middle line:-5
lying up against me,
and it didn't feel comfortable.
177
00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:57.160 align:middle line:-5
You know, I didn't know him well
enough for him to be doing that.
178
00:09:57.160 --> 00:09:58.960 align:middle line:-4
So I lay there really still.
179
00:09:59.960 --> 00:10:01.960 align:middle line:-4
And...
180
00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:03.960 align:middle line:-4
he was too close.
181
00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:05.960 align:middle line:-4
And, erm...
182
00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:08.640 align:middle line:-5
then I felt him lifting
up my nightie.
183
00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:10.960 align:middle line:-4
Erm...
184
00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:14.960 align:middle line:-4
And then...
185
00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:18.960 align:middle line:-4
And then I felt it.
186
00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.160 align:middle line:-3
'There is a certain tone
to her voice, isn't there?'
187
00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:28.960 align:middle line:-3
You can almost sense it
playing in her mind
188
00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:30.160 align:middle line:-2
as she's describing it.
189
00:10:32.160 --> 00:10:34.960 align:middle line:-3
'There were no blurred lines
in this case.
190
00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:37.960 align:middle line:-3
'We weren't talking
about late adolescence here.'
191
00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:41.960 align:middle line:-3
We were talking about
very young children.
192
00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:43.960 align:middle line:-2
Very young children.
193
00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:57.960 align:middle line:-3
'I was a showbiz journalist
on Sounds music magazine,
194
00:10:57.960 --> 00:10:59.960 align:middle line:-2
'and I got invited to this launch
195
00:10:59.960 --> 00:11:02.960 align:middle line:-3
'of the Gary Glitter single,
Dance Me Up, at The Hippodrome.'
196
00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:06.640 align:middle line:-2
# Dance, dance, dance
197
00:11:06.640 --> 00:11:08.960 align:middle line:-2
# Dance me up... #
198
00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:13.960 align:middle line:-3
'And that's how I met him.
And then just used to meet him
199
00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:15.960 align:middle line:-3
'at other rock-and-roll parties
and whatever.'
200
00:11:17.640 --> 00:11:20.960 align:middle line:-3
Good God. Not seen this
for 30 years. Unbelievable!
201
00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:21.960 align:middle line:-2
'He had that sort of personality
202
00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:25.000 align:middle line:-3
'where he sort of won you over,
like, you know.
203
00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:32.320 align:middle line:-3
'It wasn't until years later,
you heard the rumours.
204
00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:38.960 align:middle line:-3
'I was just interviewing
my friend for a book.
205
00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:40.960 align:middle line:-3
'And he just brought it up
in conversation.
206
00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:42.960 align:middle line:-3
'He said, "I did a job
for Gary Glitter once."
207
00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:48.960 align:middle line:-3
'My friend and his friend
were doing security for Glitter,
208
00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:53.640 align:middle line:-3
'plus, they was bringing the boxes
from the van to the dressing room
209
00:11:53.640 --> 00:11:55.320 align:middle line:-3
'And I'm not sure
when the year was,
210
00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:57.480 align:middle line:-3
'but I think it must have been
about 1990.
211
00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:00.960 align:middle line:-2
'He said the box come open
212
00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:02.960 align:middle line:-3
'and all these Polaroid pictures
came out.'
213
00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.320 align:middle line:-3
He said he didn't think
anything of it straightaway.
214
00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:09.960 align:middle line:-3
But then when he picked 'em up,
he looked at 'em,
215
00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:11.960 align:middle line:-3
and there was pictures
of underage children.
216
00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:16.960 align:middle line:-3
'And he was, like,
automatically disgusted with it.
217
00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:19.000 align:middle line:-2
'And he had words with Glitter.
218
00:12:21.160 --> 00:12:23.960 align:middle line:-2
'Glitter immediately shed tears.
219
00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:25.960 align:middle line:-3
' "I'll pay you money.
I'll pay you your fee."
220
00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:26.960 align:middle line:-2
'They didn't want his fee.'
221
00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:28.960 align:middle line:-3
'They said, "We're not doing
anything for you." '
222
00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:30.320 align:middle line:-2
He didn't do his gig.
223
00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:32.960 align:middle line:-3
They just set fire to his wig
and left.
224
00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:35.960 align:middle line:-2
# I love you, love me... #
225
00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:37.960 align:middle line:-2
'I thought, "Jesus, you're joking."
226
00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:40.960 align:middle line:-3
'Although I met Gary Glitter,
I just thought he was a...
227
00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:43.960 align:middle line:-3
'I just thought he was like
a weirdo who chatted people up.
228
00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:45.960 align:middle line:-3
'I didn't know he was
into young children or whatever.'
229
00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:51.960 align:middle line:-3
You know, I was the victim
when I was in a children's home
230
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.960 align:middle line:-3
so my hatred of perverts and that
is inborn.
231
00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:58.000 align:middle line:-2
It's raw, it's deep, it runs deep.
232
00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:03.960 align:middle line:-3
What helped Glitter was
that he was playing a character,
233
00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:05.960 align:middle line:-2
he dressed as Gary Glitter,
234
00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:08.960 align:middle line:-3
and he done all them crimes as...
What was it? Paul Gadd.
235
00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:13.960 align:middle line:-3
So I think that's probably why
he got away with it for so long
236
00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:16.800 align:middle line:-2
cos he was an alter ego, wasn't he?
237
00:13:16.800 --> 00:13:20.000 align:middle line:-3
As sexy as ever,
the leader, Gary Glitter!
238
00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:21.960 align:middle line:-2
APPLAUSE
239
00:13:33.160 --> 00:13:35.960 align:middle line:-3
How are you?
Leader!
240
00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:38.480 align:middle line:-3
Oh! She knows how to make
a young boy happy.
241
00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:39.960 align:middle line:-2
SHE LAUGHS
242
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:48.960 align:middle line:2
'When you met him and spoke to him,
he was a gentleman.'
243
00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:50.960 align:middle line:-3
I'm not just another women
here sitting
244
00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:51.960 align:middle line:-2
to do you a very nice interview.
245
00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:55.960 align:middle line:-3
I'm a fan. I've got...
Now you're talking my language.
246
00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:56.960 align:middle line:-2
And certain things,
247
00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:00.960 align:middle line:-3
the raise of an eyebrow
and a little look were expected,
248
00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:02.960 align:middle line:-2
but they weren't a real threat.
249
00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:04.320 align:middle line:-2
You get more and more outrageous,
250
00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:06.320 align:middle line:-3
I was in one of your concerts one,
on the front row,
251
00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:08.000 align:middle line:-3
and your codpiece nearly poked
my eye out.
252
00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.960 align:middle line:-3
It gets bigger every show,
doesn't it?
253
00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:13.960 align:middle line:-3
I mean, you are a bit...
You are a bit overt, Gary.
254
00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:17.960 align:middle line:-3
I hope it continues
to get bigger at every show.
255
00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:22.480 align:middle line:-3
I never got any vibes
that he was interested, ever,
256
00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:24.000 align:middle line:-2
in anyone, really.
257
00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:29.960 align:middle line:-3
Now, Jimmy Savile is a totally
different, different kettle of fish.
258
00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:33.000 align:middle line:-3
There'd always been rumours
about Savile.
259
00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:37.960 align:middle line:-3
He tried to grab me onto his knee
for a photo shoot once.
260
00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:40.320 align:middle line:-2
'And I said, "No!" I said, "Off!"
261
00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:42.960 align:middle line:-3
'With Gary Glitter,
there was none of that.'
262
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.000 align:middle line:-3
Oh, you're totally,
totally outrageous.
263
00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:53.960 align:middle line:-3
'If Gary Glitter had been
a sexual predator of women,
264
00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:56.160 align:middle line:-2
'my antenna would have been going.'
265
00:14:56.160 --> 00:14:58.960 align:middle line:-3
And as you look back,
in retrospect,
266
00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:01.960 align:middle line:-3
it was because
he wasn't interested in grown-ups,
267
00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:03.960 align:middle line:-2
he was interested in children.
268
00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:06.960 align:middle line:-3
You were sort of the heart of gold.
You look after the kids in the club.
269
00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:08.960 align:middle line:-3
It's a bit like you in real life,
isn't it?
270
00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:11.960 align:middle line:-3
Well, I'm always surrounded
by teenagers and kids.
271
00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:14.640 align:middle line:-3
I mean, the rest of the cast
are very young,
272
00:15:14.640 --> 00:15:17.960 align:middle line:-3
and I think if you can keep
an open mind with young people,
273
00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:18.960 align:middle line:-2
erm, it's great.
274
00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:20.800 align:middle line:-3
And that's what
rock and roll is all about.
275
00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:22.960 align:middle line:-2
It's made me realise
276
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.960 align:middle line:-3
that with all the years' experience
I'd had then
277
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:28.960 align:middle line:-2
and even have now,
278
00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:32.960 align:middle line:-2
you can be so very, very wrong.
279
00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:52.960 align:middle line:-2
CHEERING
280
00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:54.960 align:middle line:-3
IAIN LEE: 'He appeared
on This Is Your life,
281
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.160 align:middle line:-2
'which was a huge show.
282
00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:04.960 align:middle line:-3
'He's always been a part of my life,
he's always been there.'
283
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:09.960 align:middle line:-5
I kind of got into him,
in a semi-ironic way, about '88, '89
284
00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:11.800 align:middle line:-4
when I was 15 and 16,
285
00:16:11.800 --> 00:16:14.960 align:middle line:-3
and me and my friends would go off
and see him in concert, you know,
286
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:18.160 align:middle line:-3
and every time he spoke,
we would shout, "Leader, Leader!"
287
00:16:18.160 --> 00:16:21.960 align:middle line:-3
Tessa Dahl.
Tessa! Tessa, Tessa, Tessa!
288
00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:28.640 align:middle line:-3
There's that uncomfortable bit in it
where someone comes out and says,
289
00:16:28.640 --> 00:16:31.960 align:middle line:-3
"Oh, Gary, you stayed with us when
you had a breakdown or something."
290
00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:36.960 align:middle line:-5
Gary actually came to live in my
house when he was between jobs.
291
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:39.160 align:middle line:-3
Between jobs, yeah.
I was absolutely broke!
292
00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:44.960 align:middle line:-3
He kind of does something like that,
"Don't... don't talk about that."
293
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:47.800 align:middle line:-3
My sister Lucy turned it
into quite a successful venture
294
00:16:47.800 --> 00:16:48.960 align:middle line:-2
because she used to pack the train
295
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.960 align:middle line:-3
full of her adolescent
school friends in school uniforms.
296
00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.800 align:middle line:2
And she'd bring them up
to the house,
297
00:16:55.800 --> 00:16:58.960 align:middle line:2
and charge them £5 a head
to come and gaze at Glitter.
298
00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:02.160 align:middle line:-3
She wouldn't have known
about what he was doing,
299
00:17:02.160 --> 00:17:06.960 align:middle line:-3
but looking at that now,
what were we thinking?
300
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:11.960 align:middle line:-3
Why didn't someone hone in on that
and say, "Hang on, what is this?"
301
00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:15.960 align:middle line:-2
The fact that he was such a big star
302
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.960 align:middle line:-3
is what allowed him to groom
and rape children.
303
00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:22.960 align:middle line:-2
If he'd just been Paul Gadd,
304
00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:25.640 align:middle line:-3
yeah, he would have
still have been a paedophile.
305
00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:30.000 align:middle line:-3
The Gary Glitter persona
made it easier to do it.
306
00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:38.320 align:middle line:-3
I was abused around
about the age of eight or nine
307
00:17:38.320 --> 00:17:41.160 align:middle line:-2
by a very loud character.
308
00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:44.960 align:middle line:-3
He did the same kind of tricks
that Glitter did
309
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:49.160 align:middle line:-3
in that he and other people
around him were trusted by parents.
310
00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:53.960 align:middle line:-2
One of the tricks of paedophiles
311
00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.960 align:middle line:-3
is to make you think
you're the only person.
312
00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:58.960 align:middle line:-2
"I'm not doing this to anyone else."
313
00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:02.960 align:middle line:-3
It's manipulation and control,
and making you feel isolated.
314
00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:08.960 align:middle line:-3
I can speak of the three girls
that I know.
315
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:10.960 align:middle line:-5
One of whom
was the eight-year-old girl
316
00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:14.960 align:middle line:-5
who he attempted to rape
in his home in 1975.
317
00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:17.960 align:middle line:-3
The other two women in the case
were teenage girls
318
00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:21.960 align:middle line:-3
who had come into contact with him
after concerts.
319
00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:27.320 align:middle line:-3
One of the girls attended a concert
on consecutive nights in Leicester.
320
00:18:27.320 --> 00:18:28.960 align:middle line:-2
And then on the second night,
321
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:32.960 align:middle line:-3
she and her mother were invited
back to his hotel.
322
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:35.160 align:middle line:-3
And then while the two
of them were there,
323
00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:38.960 align:middle line:-3
somebody quietly ushered the mum
out of the room.
324
00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.000 align:middle line:-3
This is a girl who was about 12
at the time.
325
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.960 align:middle line:-2
It was, in effect, child rape.
326
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.480 align:middle line:-3
And then the third girl
was in his changing room,
327
00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:57.960 align:middle line:-3
and again,
the situation was manipulated
328
00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:04.960 align:middle line:-3
so that the mother was persuaded to
leave their daughter alone with him.
329
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:09.960 align:middle line:-3
If they'd been asked
in similar circumstances
330
00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:11.960 align:middle line:-3
to leave their daughter
with a stranger,
331
00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:15.960 align:middle line:-3
they would have almost certainly
refused to do it.
332
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:17.960 align:middle line:-2
They thought they knew him.
333
00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:19.960 align:middle line:-3
But of course, they didn't.
It was an illusion.
334
00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:25.960 align:middle line:-3
I think it's one of the most
shocking cases that I've dealt with.
335
00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:28.960 align:middle line:-3
My client was repeatedly raped
by him.
336
00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:34.960 align:middle line:2
And the manner in which he did
all of that
337
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.960 align:middle line:2
was particularly depraved
and revolting.
338
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:40.960 align:middle line:-3
My client's always been
absolutely insistent
339
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:42.960 align:middle line:-2
that she wants to be anonymous.
340
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:44.960 align:middle line:-2
But at the same time, she...
341
00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:47.960 align:middle line:-3
she wants to get across
what sort of man this was.
342
00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:51.960 align:middle line:-3
I mean, she said to me
the other day, you know,
343
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.960 align:middle line:-3
"I will never get any peace
over this.
344
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:55.960 align:middle line:-2
"It haunts me constantly."
345
00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:58.960 align:middle line:-3
And she has, you know,
nightmares about it all the time.
346
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.960 align:middle line:-3
I don't believe it's ever a case
with these cases
347
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.960 align:middle line:-3
that literally nobody knew about it
or nobody suspected.
348
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:12.960 align:middle line:-3
I think that people just didn't want
to acknowledge what was going on.
349
00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:46.960 align:middle line:-3
God, the tune's terrible,
but the lyrics are disgusting.
350
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.960 align:middle line:-3
I can imagine him sitting at home,
watching himself perform that,
351
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:54.960 align:middle line:-3
thinking he's pulled the wool
over people's eyes.
352
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:57.960 align:middle line:-2
And he's a grown man singing that.
353
00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:00.960 align:middle line:-3
It's that "hiding in plain sight"
thing.
354
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:06.960 align:middle line:-3
He was telling us what he was doing
but no-one picked up on the clues.
355
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:10.960 align:middle line:-2
Mirror, mirror, framed in gold.
356
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:13.960 align:middle line:-2
In your depths, the story holds.
357
00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:17.480 align:middle line:-3
I'm a rock star
who became a monster!
358
00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:19.960 align:middle line:-2
Again, he's telling us,
359
00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:25.960 align:middle line:-3
and he was grooming an entire
generation by being on the TV,
360
00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:27.960 align:middle line:-2
by being on kids' shows.
361
00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:29.960 align:middle line:-2
And he would have known that.
362
00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:30.960 align:middle line:-2
Well, I'm on the bed with,
363
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:32.960 align:middle line:-3
of course, you already know
I'm on the bed with Gary Glitter.
364
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:36.960 align:middle line:-3
But what is amazing about Gary,
how could I start?
365
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:38.960 align:middle line:-3
How many amazing things
can I say about Gary?
366
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:41.960 align:middle line:-3
One of the amazing things
about Gary, is, of course,
367
00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:43.960 align:middle line:-3
that he has sold
over 18 million records
368
00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:45.960 align:middle line:-2
and still managed to go bankrupt.
369
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:47.480 align:middle line:-2
LAUGHTER
370
00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:48.960 align:middle line:-2
This was like the coolest show
371
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.960 align:middle line:-3
that everybody watched
cos it was completely new.
372
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:54.960 align:middle line:-3
What did you used to spend
all your money on?
373
00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.960 align:middle line:-2
Very extravagant things, you know.
374
00:21:57.960 --> 00:21:58.960 align:middle line:-2
Like, erm...
375
00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:02.480 align:middle line:-3
I used to ring up
the Playboy Club in London
376
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:05.960 align:middle line:-3
and get a coachload of Bunnies
down most evenings.
377
00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:06.960 align:middle line:-2
LAUGHTER, CHEERING
378
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.960 align:middle line:-3
Just generally, lots of good sex,
drugs, and rock n roll.
379
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:13.960 align:middle line:-3
But of course, it was allowed,
you could do that in the '70s.
380
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:16.160 align:middle line:-3
Now everyone is leading
such a clean life.
381
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.640 align:middle line:-3
Who do you coach down to your house
now? Erm. You...
382
00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:20.960 align:middle line:-2
LAUGHTER
383
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:22.480 align:middle line:-2
You sneaked that one in.
384
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:25.960 align:middle line:-3
I have got a couple of good friends
that come around.
385
00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:28.640 align:middle line:-3
Have you?
Are they very young?
386
00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:31.960 align:middle line:-3
How old is very young?
Whenever I think about you,
387
00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:34.960 align:middle line:-3
I do imagine you
with rather young nubile girls.
388
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:38.160 align:middle line:-3
Well, yes. I mean...
What do you call young?
389
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.960 align:middle line:-3
24, 23, that sort of age?
That's quite young.
390
00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:44.960 align:middle line:-3
Whoa! His face, you see it for
a second, you see it, you see it,
391
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:48.960 align:middle line:-3
and he doesn't know how to get
out of it.
392
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:50.960 align:middle line:-3
He looks really,
really uncomfortable
393
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:54.960 align:middle line:-2
and, at the time, he's, erm...
394
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.960 align:middle line:-3
I keep using the phrase
"raping children",
395
00:22:57.960 --> 00:22:59.960 align:middle line:-2
cos I don't like saying sex
396
00:22:59.960 --> 00:23:03.000 align:middle line:-3
cos sex makes it sound
like something adult and consensual,
397
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:04.480 align:middle line:-2
and it's not,
398
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.960 align:middle line:-3
and it's important to remember
these are children.
399
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.320 align:middle line:-2
And...
400
00:23:08.320 --> 00:23:12.000 align:middle line:-3
You see just a glimpse of him there,
panicking.
401
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:17.960 align:middle line:-2
Gary! Gary!
402
00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:20.320 align:middle line:-2
CROWD SHOUTS
403
00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:25.960 align:middle line:-2
CHEERING
404
00:23:27.320 --> 00:23:28.960 align:middle line:-2
My name is Chris Boffey,
405
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:33.960 align:middle line:-3
I was a reporter, Fleet Street
journalist for 40 plus years.
406
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:41.960 align:middle line:-3
I got a call from the news editor
of the News Of The World
407
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:43.960 align:middle line:-2
asking me to sort out a buyout
408
00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:49.960 align:middle line:-3
with a girl who says she had
underage sex with Gary Glitter.
409
00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:54.960 align:middle line:-3
She had a stash of photographs,
including many pictures of him bald,
410
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:56.960 align:middle line:-3
and no-one
had ever seen that picture.
411
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:01.480 align:middle line:-3
She also had a story to tell how she
was sexually assaulted by Glitter.
412
00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:05.960 align:middle line:-3
She told us about how they met
when she was aged 11.
413
00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:09.960 align:middle line:-3
But she said the relationship
didn't become physical
414
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:11.960 align:middle line:-2
until she was about 14.
415
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.960 align:middle line:-5
It was a tidal wave, really,
I was on a roller-coaster.
416
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:20.960 align:middle line:-4
In some ways, it was wonderful,
417
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.960 align:middle line:-5
but there was also
this very dark side.
418
00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:28.320 align:middle line:-5
And also the fact that these things
had happened to me
419
00:24:28.320 --> 00:24:32.960 align:middle line:-5
were at the back of my mind
all the time.
420
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:34.960 align:middle line:-2
I drew up an affidavit, which...
421
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:37.960 align:middle line:-3
Basically, bullet points
about what she said to us.
422
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.960 align:middle line:-3
And when I took the copy
of the affidavit to her lawyer,
423
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:43.800 align:middle line:-2
she was there and she read it,
424
00:24:43.800 --> 00:24:46.320 align:middle line:-3
and went very pale
and dashed out of the room.
425
00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:47.960 align:middle line:-2
And I think she was violently ill.
426
00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:50.960 align:middle line:-3
Because she had actually seen it
in black and white,
427
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:51.960 align:middle line:-2
what had happened to her.
428
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:54.960 align:middle line:-2
It was very chastening.
429
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.000 align:middle line:-3
The reality was the newspaper
was more interested
430
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.640 align:middle line:-3
in the fact that this was the
first picture of Gary Glitter bald.
431
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:06.800 align:middle line:-3
And this was very prominently
displayed
432
00:25:06.800 --> 00:25:08.960 align:middle line:-3
both on the front pages
and inside pages.
433
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:13.960 align:middle line:-3
There was no reaction
to her being 14 at the time
434
00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:16.960 align:middle line:-3
when the relationship, if you could
call it a relationship, started.
435
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:20.960 align:middle line:-3
"Showbiz exclusive."
Showbiz.
436
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:24.960 align:middle line:-3
They're missing the story
that they had sex when she was 14.
437
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:26.320 align:middle line:-2
They're calling it "making love."
438
00:25:26.320 --> 00:25:30.960 align:middle line:-3
14-year-olds cannot consent to
making love. That is sexual assault.
439
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:32.960 align:middle line:-3
This is sold as a little bit
of smutty fun.
440
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:37.960 align:middle line:-3
"Pop star sleeps with young girl"
was not unusual.
441
00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:38.960 align:middle line:-2
It was a different time,
442
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:42.960 align:middle line:-3
and I don't think young girls
were seen as victims then.
443
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:47.160 align:middle line:-3
I had obviously gone to the police,
they had all the details,
444
00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.960 align:middle line:-3
but no-one ever contacted me
from the police,
445
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:54.320 align:middle line:-3
and I've no idea
if they followed it up at all.
446
00:25:54.320 --> 00:25:59.960 align:middle line:-3
This should have been the thing that
got him shut down, and it didn't,
447
00:25:59.960 --> 00:26:04.800 align:middle line:-3
and he would still be performing
for quite a while after this.
448
00:26:04.800 --> 00:26:06.800 align:middle line:-3
Let's hear it for
the Leader Of The Gang himself,
449
00:26:06.800 --> 00:26:10.960 align:middle line:-3
and a Children In Need salute
to the king of glam rock,
450
00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:11.960 align:middle line:-2
Mr Gary Glitter.
451
00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:13.960 align:middle line:-2
CHEERING
452
00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:15.960 align:middle line:-2
MUSIC PLAYS
453
00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:22.960 align:middle line:-2
# Hello, hello
454
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:25.960 align:middle line:-3
# It's good to be back
Good to be back. #
455
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:28.960 align:middle line:-3
That's Mike Read, is it?
Yeah, I thought I recognised him.
456
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:31.960 align:middle line:-3
The tribute to Gary Glitter
on Children In Need,
457
00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:35.640 align:middle line:-3
he would see as one of
the high points of his career.
458
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.960 align:middle line:-3
Y'know, he'd done This Is Your Life,
he'd done Jim'll Fix It,
459
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:41.960 align:middle line:-2
and now he's getting this tribute
460
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:43.960 align:middle line:-5
on a programme
which went out nationally
461
00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:45.960 align:middle line:-5
where millions
would've been viewing it.
462
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:47.320 align:middle line:-2
Yeah. One of my heroes.
463
00:26:47.320 --> 00:26:49.640 align:middle line:-2
My boyhood hero, him.
464
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:53.160 align:middle line:-3
And, Blackburn,
are you still in a trance or what?
465
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:56.960 align:middle line:-3
No, I'm not in a trance.
No more. He's my hero as well.
466
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.960 align:middle line:-3
'It was quite shocking to see
Radio 1 DJs
467
00:26:59.960 --> 00:27:02.960 align:middle line:-2
'describing Gary as their hero.
468
00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:05.800 align:middle line:-3
'Even though there's been
allegations against him
469
00:27:05.800 --> 00:27:06.960 align:middle line:-2
'in the newspapers,
470
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:10.960 align:middle line:-3
'he's just there on the stage,
the adulation of the crowd,
471
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:12.960 align:middle line:-2
'the leader of the pack.'
472
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.960 align:middle line:-3
# Do you wanna be in my gang
My gang, my gang? #
473
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:18.960 align:middle line:-3
And then having his music included
in the film, Spice World,
474
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:23.960 align:middle line:-3
where the Spice Girls are performing
one of Gary's biggest hits,
475
00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:27.960 align:middle line:-3
in this energetic manner, would have
been a huge deal for him.
476
00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:29.480 align:middle line:-2
At that time,
477
00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:33.800 align:middle line:-3
the Spice Girls were probably
the biggest band in the world.
478
00:27:33.800 --> 00:27:35.800 align:middle line:-3
What do you think
of the Spice Girls phenomenon?
479
00:27:35.800 --> 00:27:37.000 align:middle line:-2
The Spice Girls are amazing.
480
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:39.960 align:middle line:-2
I've always believed in girl power
481
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:41.960 align:middle line:-3
and with my album coming out
this year,
482
00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:44.960 align:middle line:-3
there'll be a lot of male power
back again.
483
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.960 align:middle line:2
I don't see Gary Glitter
as any different
484
00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:15.960 align:middle line:2
from many of the other child abusers
that are part of my day-to-day life.
485
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:19.960 align:middle line:-3
I believe
that if they abuse children,
486
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:24.960 align:middle line:-3
erm, it is virtually impossible
to change that pattern of behaviour.
487
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:29.960 align:middle line:-3
And, erm, so to leave abusers
walking the street,
488
00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:32.960 align:middle line:-3
for me, just means that they
will continue to abuse
489
00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:35.160 align:middle line:-3
many, many more children
until they're stopped,
490
00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:37.160 align:middle line:-2
and I still believe that today.
491
00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:42.960 align:middle line:-3
But all those people who were
around him,
492
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:44.960 align:middle line:-3
I don't believe
for one single moment
493
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:46.960 align:middle line:-3
that some of them didn't know
what was happening.
494
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.960 align:middle line:-3
And there will have been many
reasons why they turned away.
495
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:57.960 align:middle line:-3
I know how difficult it is
to step out of the crowd.
496
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:01.960 align:middle line:-3
But I do believe that we all
have a moral responsibility
497
00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:03.960 align:middle line:-2
to protect children.
498
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:28.960 align:middle line:-2
'I was photographing in Cuba
499
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:32.960 align:middle line:-3
'and I came across Gary Glitter
at a swimming pool in Havana.
500
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:36.960 align:middle line:-3
'I used to go to this hotel
to come and swim.'
501
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:41.160 align:middle line:-5
And there was a man
in a great big wig with make-up
502
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:44.960 align:middle line:-2
in a purple velvet jumpsuit.
503
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.960 align:middle line:-2
By the pool, and there he was.
504
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:50.960 align:middle line:-3
He stripped that off,
down to his little black briefs.
505
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:53.960 align:middle line:-3
And he, instead of the usual music
around the pool,
506
00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:56.000 align:middle line:-3
there was,
"Do you want to be in my gang?"
507
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:58.960 align:middle line:-2
# I'm the leader
508
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:00.960 align:middle line:-2
# I'm the leader of the gang... #
509
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.480 align:middle line:-2
As the afternoon wore on,
510
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.960 align:middle line:-3
I noticed one man
brought three very young girls,
511
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:10.320 align:middle line:-3
probably between the ages
of eight, 12 or 13.
512
00:30:10.320 --> 00:30:11.960 align:middle line:-2
One of them seemed to know him.
513
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:17.960 align:middle line:-3
This wasn't "playtime with children"
behaviour.
514
00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:21.960 align:middle line:-3
That's sort of why it made me really
suspicious in the first place.
515
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:24.960 align:middle line:-2
The next day, another three.
516
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:26.960 align:middle line:-2
They turned up on their own.
517
00:30:28.320 --> 00:30:30.000 align:middle line:-2
Then, I also had my cameras on me,
518
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.960 align:middle line:-3
so I decided
that I would record this,
519
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:36.960 align:middle line:-3
because it was getting
sort of uncomfortable.
520
00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:39.960 align:middle line:-3
He kept asking to put their arms
around him.
521
00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:41.960 align:middle line:-2
It didn't look right at all.
522
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:43.960 align:middle line:-2
This is them arriving.
523
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:48.960 align:middle line:-3
Just strange, a man of this age
with these three children,
524
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:50.960 align:middle line:-2
and all this kissing.
525
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:54.960 align:middle line:-3
Then he would disappear,
and one of them would disappear.
526
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:57.960 align:middle line:-2
It was uncomfortable.
527
00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:01.960 align:middle line:-3
I did even say something
to the management,
528
00:31:01.960 --> 00:31:07.960 align:middle line:-3
and they would say, "It's fine,
he's well behaved, he tips...
529
00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:11.960 align:middle line:-3
"He's great with us" and things.
So nothing was really said.
530
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:17.640 align:middle line:-3
I would never have interfered
with him or pictures
531
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:20.960 align:middle line:-3
if I hadn't thought something
pretty dark was going on.
532
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:23.960 align:middle line:-2
I think I did the right thing.
533
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:26.960 align:middle line:-2
The hunch was correct.
534
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:27.960 align:middle line:-2
Boy, was it correct, yeah.
535
00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:33.960 align:middle line:-5
NEWSREADER:
The pop star Gary Glitter
536
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:35.960 align:middle line:-4
has been questioned by police
537
00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:38.960 align:middle line:-4
after claims that child pornography
538
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:41.800 align:middle line:-3
was discovered on a computer he had
taken into a shop to be repaired.
539
00:31:41.800 --> 00:31:42.960 align:middle line:-5
NEWSREADER 2: Detectives
this morning
540
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:45.960 align:middle line:-5
searched two homes
belonging to the star
541
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:49.320 align:middle line:-3
and seized a number of videos
and pictures of children.
542
00:31:49.320 --> 00:31:51.960 align:middle line:-2
It tells you something, doesn't it?
543
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:54.960 align:middle line:-3
That he should have taken
that laptop for repair
544
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:56.320 align:middle line:-2
with those images on it,
545
00:31:56.320 --> 00:31:58.160 align:middle line:-3
and it shouldn't have
crossed his mind
546
00:31:58.160 --> 00:31:59.960 align:middle line:-2
what might happen as a result.
547
00:31:59.960 --> 00:32:02.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER: Gary Glitter spent
six hours with the police,
548
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:05.640 align:middle line:-3
after which he was charged under
his real name, Paul Francis Gadd,
549
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:06.960 align:middle line:-2
with 50 offences
550
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:10.960 align:middle line:-3
of making indecent pseudo pictures
of children under the age of 16.
551
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:14.960 align:middle line:-3
And in the wake of that discovery,
two complainants came forward,
552
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.960 align:middle line:-2
one was the eight-year-old who...
553
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:19.960 align:middle line:-3
He attempted to rape her
in his home.
554
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:23.480 align:middle line:-3
That was the moment when she
felt able to come forward.
555
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:29.960 align:middle line:-2
She later gave an interview,
556
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:33.640 align:middle line:-3
when she's describing hearing about
him being arrested for the computer.
557
00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:37.960 align:middle line:-4
When I heard about the pornography.
558
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:41.800 align:middle line:-4
I was just really angry
559
00:32:41.800 --> 00:32:45.960 align:middle line:-5
because it just became
instantly clear to me
560
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:48.960 align:middle line:-4
that this had never ever stopped.
561
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:50.960 align:middle line:-4
It was still his thing.
562
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:54.800 align:middle line:-2
Hearing her speak,
563
00:32:54.800 --> 00:32:56.960 align:middle line:-3
you can hear great anger
at the thought
564
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.960 align:middle line:-3
that what had happened to her
was still continuing.
565
00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:02.960 align:middle line:-4
All these years later,
566
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:07.960 align:middle line:-5
he was still doing
what he had always done.
567
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:11.960 align:middle line:-5
I felt like, "This is it,
people will know.
568
00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:15.960 align:middle line:-5
"Maybe there is a chance
that I might be believed."
569
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:19.960 align:middle line:-5
REPORTER: Gary Glitter is charged
with a string of sex offences
570
00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:23.960 align:middle line:-5
dating back to 1975,
involving a girl aged under 13
571
00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:26.800 align:middle line:-4
and another aged under 16.
572
00:33:26.800 --> 00:33:28.960 align:middle line:-3
There are five counts
of indecent assault
573
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:31.160 align:middle line:-3
and four
of another serious sexual assault.
574
00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:33.960 align:middle line:-3
On top of that,
there are 51 charges
575
00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:37.960 align:middle line:-3
of either making or possessing
indecent photographs of children.
576
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:39.960 align:middle line:-2
The second woman who came forward
577
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:44.960 align:middle line:-3
was the lady who, in 1993,
had already spoken to the press
578
00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:47.960 align:middle line:-2
about her relationship with him.
579
00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:53.960 align:middle line:-3
It sometimes takes decades
for people to come forward.
580
00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:57.000 align:middle line:-2
I now work as a counsellor.
581
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:00.960 align:middle line:-3
I have clients who bring
all kinds of issues to me
582
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:06.960 align:middle line:-3
but yeah, I also have survivors of
child sexual abuse who I work with.
583
00:34:09.160 --> 00:34:13.480 align:middle line:-3
People who haven't experienced that
can be really suspicious
584
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:15.960 align:middle line:-3
when someone comes out
30, 40, 50 years later
585
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:17.960 align:middle line:-2
and says, "This happened to me."
586
00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:20.160 align:middle line:-2
And a lot of people have that thing,
587
00:34:20.160 --> 00:34:22.960 align:middle line:-3
"They're jumping on the bandwagon,
they're doing it for money.
588
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:24.960 align:middle line:-3
"Why didn't they say it
at the time?"
589
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:27.800 align:middle line:-3
There's loads of reasons
why they didn't say it at the time.
590
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:28.960 align:middle line:-3
They were afraid,
they were ashamed,
591
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:30.960 align:middle line:-3
they would have possibly thought
it was their fault.
592
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:34.480 align:middle line:-2
And it can take decades for people
593
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:36.960 align:middle line:-3
to feel the strength
and the confidence
594
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:41.320 align:middle line:-2
to speak about their experiences.
595
00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:57.160 align:middle line:-3
To find that there wasn't even going
to be a trial of it
596
00:34:57.160 --> 00:34:59.800 align:middle line:-3
because it had all happened
so long ago
597
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:02.960 align:middle line:-3
will have been damaging
and upsetting to her.
598
00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:05.960 align:middle line:-3
Faced with that set
of circumstances,
599
00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:08.960 align:middle line:-2
she decided to go public
600
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:13.000 align:middle line:-3
and to state what she said
had happened to her.
601
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:15.960 align:middle line:-4
I was devastated.
602
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:18.960 align:middle line:-5
Because there's this protective
window of time
603
00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:21.640 align:middle line:-4
set in place by the legal system.
604
00:35:21.640 --> 00:35:23.960 align:middle line:-5
So all the time
that clock is ticking,
605
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:27.960 align:middle line:-5
a child abuser
is getting safer and safer,
606
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:32.960 align:middle line:-5
and it just seems so wrong
that that's the case.
607
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:36.960 align:middle line:-3
You can hear the resentment
of what had happened
608
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.960 align:middle line:-3
and how unfair and unjust
she felt that it was.
609
00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:45.960 align:middle line:-3
There was now only one woman
to give evidence in the trial,
610
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:51.640 align:middle line:-3
and that will have weakened
the strength of the case.
611
00:35:51.640 --> 00:35:53.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER:
'Arriving at Bristol Crown Court,
612
00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:56.960 align:middle line:-3
'Gary Glitter literally bounced
with confidence.
613
00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:58.960 align:middle line:-2
'Flamboyant as ever,
614
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:01.960 align:middle line:-3
'wearing his familiar quiffed wig
and ponytail.'
615
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:03.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER:
'Bristol Crown Court was told today
616
00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:08.960 align:middle line:-3
'that the rock star Glitter seduced
one of his fans when she just 14.
617
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:11.480 align:middle line:-3
'The 55-year-old singer,
whose real name is Paul Gadd,
618
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:14.320 align:middle line:-3
'denies that he sexually assaulted
the young girl.'
619
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:16.960 align:middle line:-2
She told a compelling story
620
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:19.000 align:middle line:-5
of how she had first met Glitter
at the age of 11.
621
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:21.960 align:middle line:-5
He then saw her at a concert,
invited her up to stage,
622
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:23.640 align:middle line:-4
met her parents backstage.
623
00:36:23.640 --> 00:36:25.960 align:middle line:-3
They were so impressed,
"What a nice man he is,"
624
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:26.960 align:middle line:-2
invited him back for lunch.
625
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:28.960 align:middle line:-2
He stayed five days,
626
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.960 align:middle line:-3
and the relationship built up
with that.
627
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:32.960 align:middle line:-3
He gradually weaned her
away from her parents,
628
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:34.960 align:middle line:-2
first in a hotel room
629
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:37.960 align:middle line:-3
where he then encouraged her
to watch him in a bath,
630
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:39.960 align:middle line:-3
and when he emerged,
the first sexual act,
631
00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:41.960 align:middle line:-2
sex abuse, took place.
632
00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:44.960 align:middle line:-2
The danger, of course,
633
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:47.960 align:middle line:-3
of being brave enough
to bring your case to the court
634
00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:52.960 align:middle line:-3
is that you are then cross-examined
but the defendant's barrister.
635
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:54.960 align:middle line:-3
And in this case,
an absolute master,
636
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:57.960 align:middle line:-3
and he absolutely
ripped her to shreds.
637
00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.960 align:middle line:-2
REPORTER: 'Defence barrister said
638
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:02.960 align:middle line:-3
'the jury should not believe
the woman's evidence
639
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:05.960 align:middle line:-3
'because she'd waited
almost 20 years to make a complaint
640
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:08.960 align:middle line:-3
'and only then
after selling her story for £25,000
641
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:11.960 align:middle line:-3
'to the to the News Of The World
if Glitter is convicted.'
642
00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:16.960 align:middle line:-3
The criminal justice system
is brutal.
643
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:21.320 align:middle line:-3
One victim
standing against one abuser.
644
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:23.960 align:middle line:-5
It's always gonna be
very difficult to prove
645
00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:28.960 align:middle line:-5
because a jury is going to give the
suspect the benefit of the doubt
646
00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:30.960 align:middle line:-2
because the judge will direct them
647
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:34.960 align:middle line:-3
that you have to convict
beyond any reasonable doubt.
648
00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:39.640 align:middle line:-2
When she decided to go public,
649
00:37:39.640 --> 00:37:42.320 align:middle line:-3
she went to the press
before she went to the police.
650
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:45.960 align:middle line:-3
And that was fatal to her chances
of convincing the jury.
651
00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:50.960 align:middle line:-3
It was extremely uncomfortable
to watch a woman
652
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:53.800 align:middle line:-3
who I thought
had clearly been abused,
653
00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:56.960 align:middle line:-3
and she was reduced
to absolute tears of frustration.
654
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:01.960 align:middle line:-3
And my abiding memory is as she left
the witness box for the last time,
655
00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:05.960 align:middle line:-3
she turned round to look directly
at Glitter in the dock,
656
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:10.960 align:middle line:-3
with her big eyes full of tears
and just sort of imploring,
657
00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:12.960 align:middle line:-3
beseeching him,
"Why have you done this?"
658
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:17.960 align:middle line:2
You made a deal
with the News Of The World
659
00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:20.960 align:middle line:2
that you would've got more money
if he'd been found guilty,
660
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:22.960 align:middle line:2
and that deal
had been allowed to stand.
661
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:25.960 align:middle line:2
Do you regret entering that
agreement with the newspaper now?
662
00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:27.960 align:middle line:2
With hindsight, if I would've known
663
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.160 align:middle line:2
he was going to use that
as his only defence,
664
00:38:30.160 --> 00:38:32.960 align:middle line:2
really, in the case against me,
of course.
665
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:35.960 align:middle line:2
But in saying that, the News
Of The World made people aware
666
00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:38.320 align:middle line:2
two years before the police could
667
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:42.000 align:middle line:2
of the kind of person
that he is or was.
668
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.960 align:middle line:-3
Yes, now, I didn't think
this helped at all, this.
669
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:48.960 align:middle line:-2
The judge also told the jury...
670
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:53.960 align:middle line:-3
that there are 14-year-old girls,
and there are 14-year-old girls.
671
00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:55.960 align:middle line:-2
And he's pointed out,
672
00:38:55.960 --> 00:38:56.960 align:middle line:-2
"There are some 14-year-olds
673
00:38:56.960 --> 00:38:59.960 align:middle line:-3
"who look like
a sophisticated young lady...
674
00:38:59.960 --> 00:39:02.960 align:middle line:-3
"And some 14-year-olds
still look like little girls.
675
00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:06.960 align:middle line:-3
"You may wish to consider
which category the girl was in."
676
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:09.960 align:middle line:-2
14 is 14.
677
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:11.960 align:middle line:-2
Under the terms of the law,
678
00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:16.960 align:middle line:-3
under the age of 16,
you... are protected.
679
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:20.960 align:middle line:-3
And it's not a judge's place
to say that, in my opinion.
680
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:23.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER: 'With the characteristic
twitch of the head,
681
00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:27.960 align:middle line:-3
'the '70s rock star arrived at court
to hear his fate.'
682
00:39:34.640 --> 00:39:38.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER: 'This morning, a jury
cleared him of all the offences.
683
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:40.960 align:middle line:-3
'They decided there was
enough reasonable doubt
684
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:42.960 align:middle line:-3
'about the alleged victim's
evidence.'
685
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.960 align:middle line:2
Of course,
I was absolutely devastated
686
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.960 align:middle line:2
when he was found not guilty
of the allegations that I'd made.
687
00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:54.960 align:middle line:2
I went to court to tell the truth,
and that's all that I could do.
688
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:58.960 align:middle line:2
If I can speak out,
maybe other people can as well.
689
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:01.960 align:middle line:2
And despite the fact
of the not guilty verdict,
690
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:05.640 align:middle line:2
I still can stand with dignity
691
00:40:05.640 --> 00:40:09.960 align:middle line:2
and say that what happened to me
is the truth.
692
00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:22.960 align:middle line:-3
These were not merely images
of children without clothes.
693
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:29.480 align:middle line:-3
These were images of adults
engaging in sexual activity
694
00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:32.960 align:middle line:-2
with very, very young children,
695
00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:37.960 align:middle line:-3
what people would describe
as toddlers or babies.
696
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:38.960 align:middle line:-2
So it was...
697
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:42.960 align:middle line:-2
..as bad as it gets.
698
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:48.960 align:middle line:-3
Each charge was read,
and he had to make the response.
699
00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:52.960 align:middle line:-3
He started mumbling "guilty"
and was told to speak up.
700
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:53.960 align:middle line:-2
And then he started turning away
701
00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:55.960 align:middle line:-3
and tried to talk
into his shoulder
702
00:40:55.960 --> 00:41:00.800 align:middle line:-3
in some sort of display
of phoney self-loathing.
703
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:03.960 align:middle line:-3
But in the public gallery, I have
never seen such a transformation
704
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:06.960 align:middle line:-2
from the glee that they had before.
705
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:11.960 align:middle line:-3
Suddenly, jaws dropped,
eyes went wide.
706
00:41:11.960 --> 00:41:14.960 align:middle line:-3
A real look of horror
on the faces of his fans
707
00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:17.640 align:middle line:-2
who had no idea
708
00:41:17.640 --> 00:41:18.960 align:middle line:2
that the man they hero-worshipped,
709
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:22.960 align:middle line:2
was in fact a filthy paedophile.
710
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:26.160 align:middle line:-3
The pop star Gary Glitter
has been jailed for four months
711
00:41:26.160 --> 00:41:28.960 align:middle line:-2
after pleading guilty to 54 counts
712
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:30.960 align:middle line:-3
of making indecent photographs
of children.
713
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER:
'It emerged that some of the photos
714
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:34.960 align:middle line:-3
'revealed young girls
being tortured,
715
00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:37.480 align:middle line:-2
'tied up, gagged and blindfolded.
716
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:40.960 align:middle line:-3
'He left in disgrace,
his career in ruins,
717
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:42.960 align:middle line:-3
'a convicted criminal,
who will now be placed
718
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:45.640 align:middle line:-3
'on the police register
as a sex offender.'
719
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:49.960 align:middle line:-3
Four months
sounds a powder puff penalty
720
00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:54.320 align:middle line:-3
for such a huge amount
of absolute perverted filth.
721
00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:56.960 align:middle line:-3
And I think it reflected the fact
that the law had not caught up
722
00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:58.960 align:middle line:-3
with what the internet
was capable of.
723
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:02.960 align:middle line:-3
It was a sentence
of four months' imprisonment,
724
00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:04.960 align:middle line:-2
of which he served half.
725
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:08.160 align:middle line:-3
I venture to suggest
that for images of that kind,
726
00:42:08.160 --> 00:42:11.960 align:middle line:-3
the sentence now, the position
would've been rather more severe.
727
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:16.960 align:middle line:2
INTERVIEWER: If you could speak
to Gary Glitter tonight,
728
00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:18.960 align:middle line:2
what would you say to him?
729
00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:21.960 align:middle line:2
WOMAN: I'd ask him
whether he really was sorry
730
00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:25.480 align:middle line:2
and if he really did know
the true intensity
731
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.320 align:middle line:2
and the true severity of
the kind of damage that he's done.
732
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:42.480 align:middle line:-3
The pop star Gary Glitter
is due to be released
733
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:43.960 align:middle line:-2
from a Bristol prison today
734
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:45.960 align:middle line:-3
after serving half
of a four-month sentence
735
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:47.960 align:middle line:-2
for possession of child pornography.
736
00:42:49.640 --> 00:42:52.960 align:middle line:-3
Gary will just hang around for
a few minutes to be photographed...
737
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:55.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER:
'As his solicitor explained terms
738
00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:56.960 align:middle line:-2
'to the assembled media,
739
00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:01.800 align:middle line:-3
'Gary Glitter sat silently behind
the tinted windows of his car.
740
00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:05.960 align:middle line:-3
'Then, in what looks like
a final theatrical flourish,
741
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:07.000 align:middle line:-2
'he appeared.'
742
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:09.960 align:middle line:-2
I remember it.
743
00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:14.960 align:middle line:-3
Making it appear as though
this was some temporary aberration
744
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:17.960 align:middle line:-3
and that he was now looking to,
as it were, start again.
745
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:25.960 align:middle line:-3
I deeply regret doing
what I was sent to prison for.
746
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:29.960 align:middle line:-2
I've served my time.
747
00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:37.960 align:middle line:2
I want to put it all behind me
and live my life.
748
00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:39.960 align:middle line:-2
As a sex offender,
749
00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:43.960 align:middle line:-3
once you are released,
you're free to carry on your life
750
00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:47.960 align:middle line:-3
and disappear into the ether,
really.
751
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:50.960 align:middle line:-3
And another country
wouldn't necessarily be aware
752
00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:53.960 align:middle line:-2
that you are a sex offender.
753
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:11.960 align:middle line:-3
I heard that he was going around
with his motorcycle and his bandana.
754
00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:14.960 align:middle line:-4
That's why it also enraged me
755
00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:18.960 align:middle line:-5
because this guy feels like he's
a King of Cambodia or something.
756
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:23.640 align:middle line:-2
When I heard his name, Gary Glitter,
757
00:44:23.640 --> 00:44:25.160 align:middle line:-2
I went, "Gary Glitter?"
758
00:44:25.160 --> 00:44:28.960 align:middle line:-3
I quickly googled his name,
and I was horrified.
759
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:33.960 align:middle line:-3
He came to Cambodia to buy children,
to have sex,
760
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:37.960 align:middle line:-3
like the rest of these ugly men
that we see in these bars.
761
00:44:41.960 --> 00:44:43.000 align:middle line:-2
My name is Luke Hunt.
762
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:46.960 align:middle line:-3
I was a journalist for Agence Presse
in Cambodia.
763
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:53.960 align:middle line:-3
Cambodia was attracting
a lot of dubious characters,
764
00:44:53.960 --> 00:44:56.960 align:middle line:-3
pardon the cliche,
a haven for paedophiles.
765
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:00.960 align:middle line:-2
It was easy to get a visa,
766
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:04.160 align:middle line:-3
and there were no shortage of kids
without families who were hungry.
767
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.480 align:middle line:-3
For some types of people,
this was an attraction.
768
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:14.960 align:middle line:-3
When it comes to
child sex offenders,
769
00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:17.960 align:middle line:-3
Gary Glitter,
he was just another one of them.
770
00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:19.960 align:middle line:-3
And he wasn't trying to
use his celebrity,
771
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:22.960 align:middle line:-3
he was really trying...
doing his best to hide.
772
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:28.960 align:middle line:-3
We had an idea where he was staying,
where he got his first apartment,
773
00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:31.640 align:middle line:-3
and then it became
a bit of a game of cat and mouse
774
00:45:31.640 --> 00:45:33.960 align:middle line:-3
about where he was
and following him around.
775
00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:37.960 align:middle line:-3
And that was the one time
we did confront him,
776
00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:41.960 align:middle line:-2
and, er, I got some photographs.
777
00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:43.960 align:middle line:-3
The reason why
they couldn't find him
778
00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:46.960 align:middle line:-3
was because he was always wearing
his motorbike helmet.
779
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:51.960 align:middle line:-3
MU SOCHUA: Gary Glitter
was escaping from the UK.
780
00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:53.000 align:middle line:-2
Why did he get out?
781
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:55.960 align:middle line:-2
How was he able to be a free man?
782
00:45:55.960 --> 00:45:57.320 align:middle line:-2
I was enraged.
783
00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:02.960 align:middle line:-3
Right away, I said,
"I'm gonna go after this guy,
784
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:06.960 align:middle line:-3
"and he has to leave the country
as soon as possible."
785
00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:09.960 align:middle line:-5
The message from Cambodia
is very clear -
786
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:13.960 align:middle line:-4
Cambodia is not a safe haven
787
00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:18.960 align:middle line:-5
for people who have committed crimes
against children in their country
788
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:20.960 align:middle line:-2
or anywhere in the world.
789
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:23.960 align:middle line:-2
By the end of 2002,
790
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:28.960 align:middle line:-3
the police made allegations
that he had abused children.
791
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:32.960 align:middle line:-3
It was enough to have him arrested
and held for two days.
792
00:46:34.160 --> 00:46:36.960 align:middle line:-3
When he was arrested,
I felt relieved.
793
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:41.320 align:middle line:-3
But I was told also
that he was going to Vietnam.
794
00:46:41.320 --> 00:46:44.320 align:middle line:-3
I said, "Are you sure
he is not coming back?"
795
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:45.960 align:middle line:-2
Sure enough, he came back.
796
00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:49.960 align:middle line:-2
I was not surprised.
797
00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:53.960 align:middle line:-3
I was told that he had a lot of
money, he had a lot of protection.
798
00:46:55.640 --> 00:46:59.960 align:middle line:-3
When you're looking at 2003,
'04 and '05,
799
00:46:59.960 --> 00:47:03.960 align:middle line:-3
he was basically traversing
between Vietnam and Cambodia.
800
00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:09.160 align:middle line:-3
But the end of 2005, there were
quite a few more reports coming in.
801
00:47:09.160 --> 00:47:10.960 align:middle line:-2
Allegations were made
802
00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:14.960 align:middle line:-3
that he had molested children
in Cambodia.
803
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:18.960 align:middle line:-3
When they went to find him,
he'd gone.
804
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:20.960 align:middle line:-3
Basically,
he left before he was deported,
805
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:23.960 align:middle line:-3
and he went back
to his place in Vietnam.
806
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:30.480 align:middle line:-3
As soon as he left Cambodia,
the government was happy with it.
807
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:32.800 align:middle line:-2
"No longer our business."
808
00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:38.480 align:middle line:-3
That's why these, er, paedophiles...
survived.
809
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:39.960 align:middle line:-2
That's how they survive.
810
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:55.320 align:middle line:-3
ANDREW DRUMMOND: The first time
I heard that he was in Vietnam,
811
00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:56.960 align:middle line:-4
I was asked to go and find him.
812
00:47:59.480 --> 00:48:01.640 align:middle line:-5
On this occasion,
we just went in as tourists
813
00:48:01.640 --> 00:48:05.000 align:middle line:-3
and met one of the foreigners
living in Vung Tau
814
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.960 align:middle line:-2
who had tipped off the newspaper.
815
00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:09.960 align:middle line:-2
I think within 24 hours,
816
00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.960 align:middle line:-3
we had established
where Gary Glitter lived.
817
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.960 align:middle line:-2
So then we put a watch on the house.
818
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:21.960 align:middle line:-3
Glitter came out with
what seemed to be a young girl.
819
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:26.960 align:middle line:-2
I would've said 15, 16.
820
00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:29.800 align:middle line:-3
I don't think it was an unfair
assumption that something was up.
821
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:34.960 align:middle line:-3
I think Gary Glitter, er, was aware
that the bomb was going to drop.
822
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:37.960 align:middle line:-3
Because I went back
and banged on the door,
823
00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:39.800 align:middle line:-2
basically told to go away.
824
00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:41.960 align:middle line:-3
And I knew I wasn't going to
get a word out of him.
825
00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:44.480 align:middle line:-3
And by the following morning,
he'd gone,
826
00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:46.960 align:middle line:-3
and he was, I think,
in Ho Chi Minh City,
827
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:48.000 align:middle line:-2
possibly the same night.
828
00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:52.960 align:middle line:-3
The singer Gary Glitter
has been arrested
829
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:56.960 align:middle line:-3
at an airport in Vietnam, as he
tried to board a flight to Bangkok.
830
00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:59.960 align:middle line:-3
The 61-year-old was wanted by
Vietnamese police over allegations
831
00:48:59.960 --> 00:49:03.160 align:middle line:-3
about his relationships
with two underage girls.
832
00:49:06.640 --> 00:49:08.960 align:middle line:-3
From his legal office
in downtown Saigon,
833
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:11.960 align:middle line:-3
Le Thanh Kinh
is Gary Glitter's best hope.
834
00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:15.960 align:middle line:-4
SPEAKS OWN LANGUAGE:
835
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:38.960 align:middle line:-3
He masturbated over one girl twice
on two separate occasions.
836
00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:40.960 align:middle line:-2
I think the second girl,
837
00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:44.960 align:middle line:-3
he had oral sex with
on a couple of occasions.
838
00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:47.960 align:middle line:-2
So I don't think it's any doubt
839
00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:50.320 align:middle line:-3
that Gary Glitter
actually committed offenses,
840
00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:52.960 align:middle line:-2
and they were serious offenses.
841
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:57.960 align:middle line:-3
When I was about to
fly out to Vietnam
842
00:49:57.960 --> 00:49:59.160 align:middle line:-2
to cover the Glitter story...
843
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:03.960 align:middle line:-5
..I didn't know at that point that
I was gonna speak to the victims.
844
00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:05.960 align:middle line:-5
But it turned out
that's where it took me.
845
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:09.960 align:middle line:-3
The thing that always hit home
that I remember,
846
00:50:09.960 --> 00:50:12.480 align:middle line:-2
15 years after the story,
847
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:14.800 align:middle line:-2
was that line she gave me,
848
00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:17.000 align:middle line:-3
"I never forget the things
Mr Gary did to me."
849
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:21.960 align:middle line:-3
And I just thought
that very succinctly
850
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:26.960 align:middle line:-3
spelled out that this girl
had been violated by Gary Glitter
851
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:28.960 align:middle line:-2
in the most awful way,
852
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:32.960 align:middle line:-3
and she was gonna remember that
for the rest of her life.
853
00:51:03.960 --> 00:51:05.960 align:middle line:-3
That sort of shocked
a lot of other people,
854
00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:09.000 align:middle line:-3
but if you've worked in Asia for...
for a long time,
855
00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:13.480 align:middle line:-3
that is often quite actually
sort of seen as a good result.
856
00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:15.960 align:middle line:-3
The fact that some guy's
going to jail
857
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:18.960 align:middle line:-3
is not going to help the family,
particularly,
858
00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:21.000 align:middle line:-2
but I'm afraid cash is.
859
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:24.960 align:middle line:-3
Even officials view this
as one way of sorting things out.
860
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:27.960 align:middle line:-3
But of course,
it can be grossly misused.
861
00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:43.640 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER:
'The former pop star Gary Glitter
862
00:51:43.640 --> 00:51:47.160 align:middle line:-5
'has gone on trial in Vietnam,
accused of molesting two girls.
863
00:51:47.160 --> 00:51:49.960 align:middle line:-5
'If convicted, Glitter,
whose real name is Paul Gadd,
864
00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:51.960 align:middle line:-5
'could face
up to seven years in jail.'
865
00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:54.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER: 'After years
trying to evade the spotlight,
866
00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:56.960 align:middle line:-2
'this was the day Gary Glitter
867
00:51:56.960 --> 00:51:59.960 align:middle line:-2
'and his secret, sordid life abroad
868
00:51:59.960 --> 00:52:02.000 align:middle line:-2
'were officially laid bare.
869
00:52:03.320 --> 00:52:04.960 align:middle line:-2
'The judge described him as abnormal
870
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:07.640 align:middle line:-2
'and sick and said he needed help.'
871
00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:15.960 align:middle line:-3
You've been found guilty.
I am innocent. It's a conspiracy.
872
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:19.960 align:middle line:-2
It's a conspiracy by you know who.
873
00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:24.640 align:middle line:-3
One or more newspapers,
you know who.
874
00:52:24.640 --> 00:52:26.960 align:middle line:-2
I will be taking legal action.
875
00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:28.960 align:middle line:-3
There was some controversy
over the sentence,
876
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:31.960 align:middle line:-2
I think, which was three years.
877
00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:35.960 align:middle line:-3
The word was already out that Gary
Glitter had paid the assaulted girls
878
00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:38.480 align:middle line:-2
and asked for leniency.
879
00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:54.800 align:middle line:-3
Six years after he was freed
from jail in England,
880
00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:57.960 align:middle line:-3
Glitter is now starting
another jail sentence.
881
00:52:57.960 --> 00:53:00.320 align:middle line:-3
He's clearly furious
about the verdict,
882
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:04.320 align:middle line:-3
and how long he serves in prison
is open to question.
883
00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:08.000 align:middle line:-3
'But tonight,
he's wearing a prisoner's uniform.
884
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:11.960 align:middle line:-3
'For now, at least,
Gary Glitter is in their gang.'
885
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:18.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER:
'Gary Glitter is now a free man.
886
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:22.800 align:middle line:-3
'But after a lifetime of celebrity,
today, he shunned the limelight.
887
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:25.960 align:middle line:-3
'It was media scrutiny that
tracked him down here in Vietnam
888
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:29.960 align:middle line:-3
'and led to his conviction
on abusing two young girls.'
889
00:53:29.960 --> 00:53:31.960 align:middle line:-4
SPEAKS OWN LANGUAGE:
890
00:53:47.960 --> 00:53:49.960 align:middle line:-3
We were all booked on the flight
he was booked on.
891
00:53:49.960 --> 00:53:51.960 align:middle line:-2
CHATTER
892
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:54.960 align:middle line:-2
MAN: Come on, leader. Up you come.
893
00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:56.960 align:middle line:-2
So when we landed in Bangkok,
894
00:53:56.960 --> 00:53:59.960 align:middle line:-3
we had to tell the Thai police
who Gary Glitter was first.
895
00:53:59.960 --> 00:54:04.160 align:middle line:-3
We had to explain why he shouldn't
be allowed into the country.
896
00:54:06.640 --> 00:54:09.960 align:middle line:-3
So on arrival, the police came onto
the aircraft and took him airside,
897
00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:12.800 align:middle line:-2
so he wasn't allowed into Thailand.
898
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:16.960 align:middle line:-2
He then flew out to Hong Kong.
899
00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:18.960 align:middle line:-2
Yet another country has refused
900
00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:20.960 align:middle line:-3
to allow in the disgraced singer
Gary Glitter.
901
00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:23.640 align:middle line:-3
This time, he's been turned away
from Hong Kong.
902
00:54:23.640 --> 00:54:24.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER:
'His options are shrinking fast.
903
00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:28.320 align:middle line:-3
'Singapore, Cambodia
and many other countries
904
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:29.960 align:middle line:-2
'have also closed their doors.'
905
00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:32.960 align:middle line:-3
It still appears only one country
has been prepared to take him -
906
00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:34.480 align:middle line:-2
Britain.
907
00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:37.160 align:middle line:-3
The one country that,
until tonight, it seemed,
908
00:54:37.160 --> 00:54:38.960 align:middle line:-2
he wasn't prepared to go to.
909
00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:47.960 align:middle line:2
When Glitter came back here,
910
00:54:47.960 --> 00:54:50.960 align:middle line:2
I was determined
to keep the heat on him.
911
00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:56.960 align:middle line:-3
He couldn't lead
a completely normal life
912
00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:59.960 align:middle line:-3
cos he had to wear a disguise
when he went out.
913
00:54:59.960 --> 00:55:02.960 align:middle line:-3
I would go to near Regent Street
with a photographer
914
00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:05.960 align:middle line:-3
where Glitter has a property
and to try and catch him.
915
00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:08.960 align:middle line:-2
To try and show the public
916
00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:11.960 align:middle line:-3
that this man is being allowed
to continue his life
917
00:55:11.960 --> 00:55:15.960 align:middle line:-3
and enjoy the fruits of his...
of a very successful music career.
918
00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:20.480 align:middle line:-2
It also helps to shine a light
919
00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:22.960 align:middle line:-3
on what do we do
with these paedophiles,
920
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:24.960 align:middle line:-3
especially those
that have come back from abroad,
921
00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:27.960 align:middle line:-3
and he's living freely
in our society,
922
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:29.960 align:middle line:-2
and what's he gonna do next?
923
00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:36.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER:
'Last year, Jimmy Savile's coffin
924
00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:38.960 align:middle line:-3
'was driven past
Leeds General Hospital,
925
00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:41.960 align:middle line:-3
'where he'd worked
as a volunteer porter.
926
00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:44.960 align:middle line:-2
'Hospital staff joined the crowds,
927
00:55:44.960 --> 00:55:47.960 align:middle line:-3
'saying their goodbyes
and applauding him.
928
00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:49.960 align:middle line:-2
'How things have changed.'
929
00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:53.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER: 'Tonight,
Exposure investigates allegations
930
00:55:53.960 --> 00:55:54.960 align:middle line:-2
'that away from the cameras,
931
00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:57.960 align:middle line:-3
'Sir Jimmy Savile was far
from the genial eccentric.'
932
00:55:57.960 --> 00:55:59.960 align:middle line:-3
I do remember the documentary
about Savile
933
00:55:59.960 --> 00:56:04.960 align:middle line:-3
that was the catalyst
for Operation Yewtree.
934
00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:09.800 align:middle line:2
And Yewtree is the fallout
of the documentary.
935
00:56:09.800 --> 00:56:11.960 align:middle line:-2
Yewtree wasn't just about him,
936
00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:13.960 align:middle line:-2
it was about all of the others
937
00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:16.000 align:middle line:-2
who had the fingers pointed at them
938
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:18.960 align:middle line:-3
in the wake of the revelations
about him.
939
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:22.960 align:middle line:-3
And Paul Gadd was a notable figure
within that group.
940
00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:26.960 align:middle line:-5
REPORTER: 'Paul Gadd, on his way
to a police station this morning.
941
00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:28.960 align:middle line:-4
'His name has been in the frame
942
00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:31.960 align:middle line:-5
'since the Jimmy Savile scandal
broke three weeks ago.
943
00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:33.960 align:middle line:-4
'And just after 7am this morning,
944
00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:36.000 align:middle line:-3
'officers arrested
the man in his 60s
945
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:39.800 align:middle line:-2
'on suspicion of sexual offences.'
946
00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:43.960 align:middle line:-3
I prosecuted Paul Gadd
at the Crown Court at Southwark.
947
00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:46.960 align:middle line:-2
And in that case were three women.
948
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:51.960 align:middle line:-3
And Yewtree does explain
how it was that within three years,
949
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:54.960 align:middle line:-3
Gary Glitter was charged
with serious sexual offenses
950
00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:57.000 align:middle line:-2
against three children.
951
00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:00.960 align:middle line:-3
One of whom was the eight-year-old
girl who he attempted to rape
952
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:03.160 align:middle line:-2
that had been stopped in 1999.
953
00:57:03.160 --> 00:57:06.480 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER:
'Known to millions as Gary Glitter,
954
00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.160 align:middle line:-3
'the former pop star arrived
at Southwark Crown Court
955
00:57:09.160 --> 00:57:11.160 align:middle line:-2
'for the start of his trial.'
956
00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:16.960 align:middle line:-3
'I first came into contact
with Paul Francis Gadd
957
00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:19.640 align:middle line:-5
'when he was on trial
at Southwark Crown Court.'
958
00:57:19.640 --> 00:57:22.960 align:middle line:-5
Mr Gadd is 70 years old
and wears hearing aids in both ears.
959
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:26.960 align:middle line:-3
He was flanked inside the dock
by two lip-reading interpreters.
960
00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:30.640 align:middle line:-3
I think there was real shock
in the courtroom
961
00:57:30.640 --> 00:57:32.960 align:middle line:-3
amongst the media
and journalists covering it
962
00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:35.960 align:middle line:-3
that the youngest victim
was eight years old.
963
00:57:35.960 --> 00:57:37.960 align:middle line:-2
This was an eight-year-old
964
00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:41.960 align:middle line:-3
who had gone to sleep over
at a family friend's property
965
00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:44.960 align:middle line:-3
and ended up the victim
of an attempted rape.
966
00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:48.960 align:middle line:-3
It was a little detail
that she gave.
967
00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:52.960 align:middle line:-3
She said that she managed to avoid
what he was trying to do
968
00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:55.960 align:middle line:-3
because she fell off
the edge of the bed,
969
00:57:55.960 --> 00:57:58.320 align:middle line:-3
and where the covers
and the sheet had been tucked
970
00:57:58.320 --> 00:57:59.640 align:middle line:-2
beneath the mattress,
971
00:57:59.640 --> 00:58:01.960 align:middle line:-3
there was a sort of
what I'd described to the jury
972
00:58:01.960 --> 00:58:03.960 align:middle line:-2
as being a little cocoon,
973
00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:06.960 align:middle line:-3
and she fell off the mattress
into this cocoon...
974
00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:11.160 align:middle line:-2
..and that brought it to an end.
975
00:58:11.160 --> 00:58:14.960 align:middle line:-3
And he then fell asleep in a drunken
state on the bottom of the bed,
976
00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:17.960 align:middle line:-3
and she managed to get out
and go into the bathroom.
977
00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:22.960 align:middle line:-3
Those are the details
that are so telling.
978
00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:27.960 align:middle line:-2
So the other two victims alleged
979
00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:31.480 align:middle line:-3
that they'd been abused backstage
after concerts.
980
00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:35.000 align:middle line:-3
For any young person meeting their
hero or meeting someone famous,
981
00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:37.960 align:middle line:-2
it should be a moment of joy.
982
00:58:37.960 --> 00:58:41.960 align:middle line:-3
In the case of Gadd, these young
girls met an absolute monster.
983
00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:46.960 align:middle line:-2
REPORTER: 'Arriving for a day
984
00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:50.800 align:middle line:-3
'where his evidence
would be challenged and tested.
985
00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:52.960 align:middle line:-3
'Under cross examination
by John Price QC,
986
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:54.800 align:middle line:-2
'he was asked directly
987
00:58:54.800 --> 00:58:59.960 align:middle line:-3
'why he was looking at pictures of
men having sex with young children.'
988
00:58:59.960 --> 00:59:03.960 align:middle line:-3
I do have a very vivid memory
of him breaking down.
989
00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:07.960 align:middle line:-2
And to be in company
990
00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:10.960 align:middle line:-2
with someone...
991
00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:14.960 align:middle line:-3
sobbing in circumstances like that
for a long time
992
00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:16.960 align:middle line:-2
is an uncomfortable thing.
993
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:18.960 align:middle line:-3
I watched it,
and my jaw was on the floor
994
00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:22.160 align:middle line:-3
because I'd never seen
a defendant behave like this before.
995
00:59:22.160 --> 00:59:27.960 align:middle line:-3
Yes, I'd seen defendants cry,
I'd seen people giving evidence cry.
996
00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:29.960 align:middle line:-2
But this was all very self-centred.
997
00:59:29.960 --> 00:59:33.960 align:middle line:-3
There was no mention of the victims.
It was all about Gadd.
998
00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:38.960 align:middle line:-3
In the end, most trials
are about truth and lies.
999
00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:42.800 align:middle line:-3
Somebody's telling the truth,
and somebody is not.
1000
00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:45.960 align:middle line:-3
It's a case of working out
who it is.
1001
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:48.000 align:middle line:-3
Drama inside Court One
in the past few moments.
1002
00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:52.960 align:middle line:-3
The jury have now come back in with
verdicts on all of those charges.
1003
00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:54.000 align:middle line:-2
There was no emotion.
1004
00:59:55.960 --> 00:59:57.960 align:middle line:-2
He stared at the floor.
1005
00:59:57.960 --> 01:00:00.960 align:middle line:-3
There was one word
that kept coming back.
1006
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:04.000 align:middle line:-3
Guilty of the attempted rape
of a child under the age of ten.
1007
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:06.000 align:middle line:-2
Guilty of five indecent assaults.
1008
01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:09.960 align:middle line:-3
Guilty of sex with a child
under the age of 13.
1009
01:00:09.960 --> 01:00:12.960 align:middle line:-3
That one charge alone
potentially carries a sentence
1010
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:15.480 align:middle line:-2
of life in prison.
1011
01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:16.960 align:middle line:-3
Well,
I'd be lying if I said to you
1012
01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:19.960 align:middle line:-3
it's anything other than
immensely satisfying.
1013
01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:22.960 align:middle line:-3
Particularly
because of the history,
1014
01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:25.960 align:middle line:-2
particularly, erm...
1015
01:00:25.960 --> 01:00:27.960 align:middle line:-2
I'll call her Woman A,
1016
01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:32.960 align:middle line:-3
that there was a huge amount
invested in this outcome for her.
1017
01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:33.960 align:middle line:-2
And I... One of the...
1018
01:00:33.960 --> 01:00:36.320 align:middle line:-3
One of the memories I have
of the case
1019
01:00:36.320 --> 01:00:39.960 align:middle line:-3
is the profound sense
of vindication that she felt.
1020
01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:41.960 align:middle line:-2
After all these years,
1021
01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:45.960 align:middle line:-3
and they convicted him
of attempting to rape her
1022
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:47.960 align:middle line:-2
because she'd been believed.
1023
01:00:49.640 --> 01:00:51.960 align:middle line:-3
REPORTER: 'There was
little reaction or emotion
1024
01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:54.960 align:middle line:-3
'from the former glam rock star
as he was sentenced.
1025
01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:57.160 align:middle line:-3
'Some of his fans
who were in the public gallery
1026
01:00:57.160 --> 01:01:00.960 align:middle line:-3
'waved at him
as he was led away from the dock
1027
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:03.960 align:middle line:-2
'to begin his 16 years in prison.'
1028
01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:09.960 align:middle line:-3
I feel very sad
that these poor women
1029
01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:11.960 align:middle line:-2
had to wait 40 years for justice.
1030
01:01:11.960 --> 01:01:15.960 align:middle line:-3
I feel very sad that they felt
that they could not report
1031
01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:19.960 align:middle line:-3
what had happened to them
to the police for all those years.
1032
01:01:19.960 --> 01:01:22.960 align:middle line:-3
And I feel sorry
that they had to suffer in silence.
1033
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:29.160 align:middle line:-3
My client was one of the victims
in the criminal trial in 2015.
1034
01:01:29.160 --> 01:01:32.960 align:middle line:-3
I think fundamentally
that the justice that she wants
1035
01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:34.960 align:middle line:-2
is the justice that, frustratingly,
1036
01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:37.000 align:middle line:-3
is not really available
through the system
1037
01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:40.960 align:middle line:-3
because of when this happened,
which is a life sentence for Gadd.
1038
01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:42.960 align:middle line:-2
He gets to come out of prison.
1039
01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:44.960 align:middle line:-2
Her suffering is life-long.
1040
01:01:46.960 --> 01:01:48.480 align:middle line:-2
My immediate question is -
1041
01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:50.960 align:middle line:-3
what about all the other victims
in that period?
1042
01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:54.320 align:middle line:-3
Because he will never have stopped
abusing children.
1043
01:01:54.320 --> 01:01:56.960 align:middle line:-2
That will never have gone away.
1044
01:01:56.960 --> 01:01:58.960 align:middle line:-3
When you grow up,
will you run away with me?
1045
01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:00.640 align:middle line:-3
Or when I grow up,
will I run away with you?
1046
01:02:00.640 --> 01:02:03.640 align:middle line:-3
I don't believe for one moment
that some of the people
1047
01:02:03.640 --> 01:02:08.640 align:middle line:-3
that surrounded Gary Glitter
didn't know what he was doing.
1048
01:02:08.640 --> 01:02:10.960 align:middle line:-2
And my question to them would be -
1049
01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:13.960 align:middle line:-2
why did you not do something sooner?
1050
01:02:13.960 --> 01:02:16.960 align:middle line:-3
I don't think it's possible
to know if anybody knew
1051
01:02:16.960 --> 01:02:19.960 align:middle line:-3
because if anybody did know,
they did nothing about it.
1052
01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:23.960 align:middle line:2
He hid behind Gary Glitter.
1053
01:02:23.960 --> 01:02:25.960 align:middle line:2
It's like an actor
hiding behind a part.
1054
01:02:25.960 --> 01:02:27.960 align:middle line:2
It was a mask
to throw you off the scent.
1055
01:02:29.960 --> 01:02:30.960 align:middle line:-2
But there were clues.
1056
01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:34.960 align:middle line:-3
"What your mama don't see,
your mama don't know."
1057
01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:37.960 align:middle line:-3
I think without the News Of The
World's involvement in this case,
1058
01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:40.640 align:middle line:-3
Glitter would have been convicted,
I have no doubt at all about that.
1059
01:02:40.640 --> 01:02:42.960 align:middle line:-3
And that he would have been
locked up then.
1060
01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:44.960 align:middle line:-3
Instead of being convicted
of these terrible crimes
1061
01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:46.960 align:middle line:-2
that she says he committed,
1062
01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:48.960 align:middle line:-2
he was cleared.
1063
01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:50.960 align:middle line:-3
As one of the richest countries
in the world,
1064
01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:53.960 align:middle line:-3
it always struck me
as a bit of a scandal
1065
01:02:53.960 --> 01:02:55.960 align:middle line:-2
that we were complicit, in a way.
1066
01:02:55.960 --> 01:02:58.960 align:middle line:-3
We should not be letting
our citizens travel round the world,
1067
01:02:58.960 --> 01:03:00.960 align:middle line:-3
abusing children
in poorer countries.
1068
01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:04.960 align:middle line:2
WOMAN: I think it's unbelievable.
1069
01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:06.960 align:middle line:2
All of those children...
1070
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.000 align:middle line:2
are someone's child,
and that's wrong.
1071
01:03:10.640 --> 01:03:14.960 align:middle line:2
You know, he should be doing...
4,000 days,
1072
01:03:14.960 --> 01:03:17.800 align:middle line:2
4,000 years for doing that.
1073
01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:22.960 align:middle line:-3
We have some breaking news
coming to you now here at the BBC,
1074
01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:26.960 align:middle line:-3
and it is that
the disgraced pop star Gary Glitter
1075
01:03:26.960 --> 01:03:29.800 align:middle line:-2
has been freed from jail
1076
01:03:29.800 --> 01:03:33.960 align:middle line:-3
after serving half
of his 16-year sentence.
1077
01:03:42.960 --> 01:03:44.960 align:middle line:-3
He'll never change.
This is his life.
1078
01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:46.960 align:middle line:-2
This is all he's done.
1079
01:03:46.960 --> 01:03:49.960 align:middle line:-3
Paul Francis Gadd
lived as a paedophile,
1080
01:03:49.960 --> 01:03:51.960 align:middle line:-2
and he will die as a paedophile.
1081
01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:26.960 align:middle line:-2
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