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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,960 GLITTER: Gary Glitter can be the most eccentric person in the world, 2 00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:23.960 align:middle line:-2 Paul Gadd can't be. 3 00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:25.960 align:middle line:-3 You know, he's just like everybody else. 4 00:00:25.960 --> 00:00:28.160 align:middle line:-3 But Gary Glitter can be... He can fly. 5 00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:30.960 align:middle line:-3 He can, you know, he's much larger than life. 6 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:33.960 align:middle line:-3 So they are two different people? Oh, sure, you know. 7 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:37.960 align:middle line:-3 I mean, he is a bit of a monster between you and I, you know, 8 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.960 align:middle line:-3 and he's getting bigger all the time, of course. 9 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:51.960 align:middle line:-2 # Rock and roll, rock and roll 10 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:53.960 align:middle line:-2 # Rock and roll, rock... # 11 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:56.960 align:middle line:-2 Kids did love him. 12 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:01.960 align:middle line:-3 He was a larger-than-life character on screen and on the stage. 13 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:05.960 align:middle line:-3 They thought they knew him because of what they saw on television. 14 00:01:05.960 --> 00:01:09.960 align:middle line:-3 But, of course, they didn't. It was an illusion. 15 00:01:11.160 --> 00:01:13.960 align:middle line:-3 Have you heard about my reputation? No. Tell me. 16 00:01:13.960 --> 00:01:15.960 align:middle line:-3 We want to hear about your reputation. 17 00:01:15.960 --> 00:01:17.960 align:middle line:-3 There's a microphone down there. HE LAUGHS 18 00:01:17.960 --> 00:01:19.960 align:middle line:-3 It's almost as if they're having a little private joke 19 00:01:19.960 --> 00:01:21.960 align:middle line:-2 about what each of them was up to. 20 00:01:21.960 --> 00:01:25.320 align:middle line:-3 It was a tidal wave, really. I was on a roller-coaster. 21 00:01:25.320 --> 00:01:27.480 align:middle line:-3 I mean, in some ways, it was wonderful, 22 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:29.960 align:middle line:-3 but also, there was this very dark side. 23 00:01:38.960 --> 00:01:40.960 align:middle line:-3 My client was 12 years old at the time. 24 00:01:40.960 --> 00:01:42.960 align:middle line:-2 She was repeatedly raped by him, 25 00:01:42.960 --> 00:01:44.960 align:middle line:-3 and the manner in which he did all of that 26 00:01:44.960 --> 00:01:47.960 align:middle line:-3 was particularly depraved and revolting. 27 00:01:56.960 --> 00:01:58.960 align:middle line:-3 I think there was real shock in the courtroom 28 00:01:58.960 --> 00:02:01.960 align:middle line:-3 that the youngest victim was eight years old. 29 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:12.960 align:middle line:-2 For Glitter, I looked at the case. 30 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:14.960 align:middle line:-2 It was, again, for paedophilia, 31 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:17.960 align:middle line:-3 but I remember it was also about boys and girls. 32 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:20.960 align:middle line:-3 For any young person meeting their hero 33 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:24.960 align:middle line:-3 or meeting someone famous, it should be a moment of joy. 34 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:25.960 align:middle line:-2 In the case of Gadd, 35 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:28.960 align:middle line:-3 these young girls met an absolute monster. 36 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:41.960 align:middle line:-3 # Come on, come on Come on, come on 37 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:43.960 align:middle line:-2 # Come on, come on 38 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:49.320 align:middle line:-3 # Come on, come on Come on, come on 39 00:02:49.320 --> 00:02:51.960 align:middle line:-3 # Come on, come on, come on And I say 40 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:53.960 align:middle line:-2 # Come on, come on... # 41 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:56.320 align:middle line:-3 Everybody used to watch Top Of The Pops - everybody. 42 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:00.800 align:middle line:-3 And Gary Glitter come on. He looked different. 43 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:02.640 align:middle line:-2 # Come on, come on, come on 44 00:03:02.640 --> 00:03:03.960 align:middle line:-2 # Come on... # 45 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:05.960 align:middle line:-2 Glam rock was like an explosion. 46 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:08.960 align:middle line:-3 It was like something you'd never seen before. 47 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:11.800 align:middle line:-3 Before glam rock, you had all the teenage boys, 48 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:12.960 align:middle line:-2 like myself, who were skinheads. 49 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:14.960 align:middle line:-2 What glam rock did was 50 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:17.480 align:middle line:-5 we were all into, like, shaved heads, following Slade. 51 00:03:17.480 --> 00:03:19.960 align:middle line:-5 We saw glam rock on Top Of The Pops. 52 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:21.960 align:middle line:-2 We all grew our hair, dyed it red, 53 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:24.320 align:middle line:-3 put in little bits of glitter on our faces and all that. 54 00:03:24.320 --> 00:03:26.960 align:middle line:-3 It was so far removed from real life. 55 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:33.960 align:middle line:-3 # I can take you high as a kite Every single night... # 56 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:37.640 align:middle line:-3 It inspired you that there was more to life than nine-to-five boredom. 57 00:03:37.640 --> 00:03:39.960 align:middle line:-2 It made you go from grey to colour. 58 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:51.000 align:middle line:-3 Glam rock sort of came into two camps. 59 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:54.960 align:middle line:-3 There was the cool teenagers, who liked the proper glam rock, 60 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:57.960 align:middle line:-3 which was your David Bowie, Mark Bolan, Alice Cooper, 61 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:01.000 align:middle line:-3 and there was the under 12s, who liked Gary Glitter. 62 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:05.960 align:middle line:-3 GIRL: What made you want to be a singer? 63 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:07.960 align:middle line:-2 I've always wanted to be a singer. 64 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:10.960 align:middle line:-3 Since my... My uncle John used to be... 65 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:12.960 align:middle line:-2 When I was about two years of age, 66 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:14.960 align:middle line:-3 my uncle John used to come into the room, 67 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:16.320 align:middle line:-3 and we used to have fancy dress parties 68 00:04:16.320 --> 00:04:18.800 align:middle line:-3 in Banbury, in Oxfordshire, where I was born. 69 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:19.960 align:middle line:-2 And he used to sing, 70 00:04:19.960 --> 00:04:21.960 align:middle line:-3 and all the girls used to go mad, you know, 71 00:04:21.960 --> 00:04:24.640 align:middle line:-3 and I thought, "That's not a bad job when I grow up." 72 00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:26.960 align:middle line:-3 Of course, I haven't grown up yet, but when I do, 73 00:04:26.960 --> 00:04:28.960 align:middle line:-3 that's what I would like to be, a singer. 74 00:04:31.960 --> 00:04:33.960 align:middle line:-2 The childhood was quite interesting 75 00:04:33.960 --> 00:04:36.320 align:middle line:-3 because there was a lot of things that happened to me. 76 00:04:36.320 --> 00:04:38.960 align:middle line:-3 I mean, my mum was between marriages, 77 00:04:38.960 --> 00:04:41.960 align:middle line:-3 so my brother and I, Tony, got put into a children's home. 78 00:04:41.960 --> 00:04:44.320 align:middle line:-3 And once you go into those institutions, 79 00:04:44.320 --> 00:04:46.960 align:middle line:-3 you know, it was only supposed to be a couple of weekends. 80 00:04:46.960 --> 00:04:48.960 align:middle line:-3 But in fact, it turned out for two years. 81 00:04:48.960 --> 00:04:51.960 align:middle line:-2 That was quite painful. 82 00:04:51.960 --> 00:04:53.960 align:middle line:2 I used to get up at five o'clock in the morning, 83 00:04:53.960 --> 00:04:55.960 align:middle line:2 light all the fires, do all the potatoes, 84 00:04:55.960 --> 00:04:58.800 align:middle line:2 you know, clean all their shoes and things like this. 85 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:01.960 align:middle line:2 I was 11 years of age, so I wanted to get out of that. 86 00:05:01.960 --> 00:05:05.960 align:middle line:2 And fame was the thing that I wanted. 87 00:05:05.960 --> 00:05:07.960 align:middle line:-2 CROWD CHEERS 88 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:14.960 align:middle line:-2 WOMAN: Thank you! And welcome... 89 00:05:15.960 --> 00:05:18.960 align:middle line:-2 Welcome... 90 00:05:18.960 --> 00:05:24.960 align:middle line:-5 Welcome to The Saturday Scene British Pop Awards of 1975! 91 00:05:24.960 --> 00:05:26.960 align:middle line:-3 We've got a great show lined up for you. 92 00:05:26.960 --> 00:05:29.960 align:middle line:-3 'Saturday Scene was very, very popular. 93 00:05:29.960 --> 00:05:32.960 align:middle line:-3 'It was a fantastic atmosphere, I do remember that. 94 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:39.960 align:middle line:-3 'They adored him. They really did adore him. 95 00:05:39.960 --> 00:05:40.960 align:middle line:-2 'His audience loved him. 96 00:05:48.960 --> 00:05:50.960 align:middle line:-3 'So there would have been a lot of kids. 97 00:05:53.960 --> 00:05:55.960 align:middle line:-2 'Maybe seven or eight, that young.' 98 00:05:56.960 --> 00:06:00.960 align:middle line:-3 And then all the teenagers that were allowed to go on their own 99 00:06:00.960 --> 00:06:03.960 align:middle line:-3 and probably with a parent anxiously waiting in the car park. 100 00:06:03.960 --> 00:06:04.960 align:middle line:-2 So it was a very young audience, 101 00:06:04.960 --> 00:06:07.960 align:middle line:-3 hence the squealing and the shouting. 102 00:06:09.960 --> 00:06:11.960 align:middle line:-2 His energy levels were so high. 103 00:06:11.960 --> 00:06:15.960 align:middle line:-3 Like, he's stomping around, and he's fist-pumping. 104 00:06:15.960 --> 00:06:18.960 align:middle line:-3 It was glamorous. It was rock, it was, you know, Glitter. 105 00:06:21.960 --> 00:06:24.960 align:middle line:-3 Everything he was doing was larger than life. 106 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:30.960 align:middle line:-3 You might be able to tell who the mystery guest is, 107 00:06:30.960 --> 00:06:32.960 align:middle line:-3 but just in case you're in any doubt, 108 00:06:32.960 --> 00:06:34.960 align:middle line:-2 let's whip off the paper bag, 109 00:06:34.960 --> 00:06:36.960 align:middle line:-3 Argh! Yes, it's Gary Glitter! 110 00:06:36.960 --> 00:06:39.480 align:middle line:-3 It's me! What an outfit! 111 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:41.480 align:middle line:-3 Look at this outfit! Da-da-da! 112 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:44.320 align:middle line:-3 Fantastic! Actually, I've gotta get an outfit like that! 113 00:06:44.320 --> 00:06:45.960 align:middle line:-2 'I think he was quite childlike.' 114 00:06:45.960 --> 00:06:49.960 align:middle line:-3 Hello. LAUGHTER 115 00:06:49.960 --> 00:06:51.320 align:middle line:-2 In Tiswas, we used to have 116 00:06:51.320 --> 00:06:54.960 align:middle line:-3 50 completely over-excitable children every week. 117 00:06:54.960 --> 00:06:55.960 align:middle line:-2 So by the time they arrived, 118 00:06:55.960 --> 00:06:59.960 align:middle line:-3 and they would see buckets of water and custard pies lying around. 119 00:06:59.960 --> 00:07:02.960 align:middle line:-3 A level of excitement that was off the scale. 120 00:07:02.960 --> 00:07:04.960 align:middle line:-2 Hello, who's there? 121 00:07:04.960 --> 00:07:06.960 align:middle line:-3 Juno. Juno who? 122 00:07:06.960 --> 00:07:08.960 align:middle line:-2 Juno what time it is? 123 00:07:08.960 --> 00:07:12.000 align:middle line:-3 'He was just really enjoying the moment.' 124 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:13.960 align:middle line:-2 If you look over here, Gary... 125 00:07:13.960 --> 00:07:15.960 align:middle line:-2 It's allowed. Now, wait a minute. 126 00:07:15.960 --> 00:07:19.640 align:middle line:-3 It says, "And now for some music, here's Bar..." 127 00:07:19.640 --> 00:07:20.960 align:middle line:-2 Barry what?! 128 00:07:20.960 --> 00:07:23.960 align:middle line:-3 And I don't think anyone would have thought anything weird 129 00:07:23.960 --> 00:07:25.960 align:middle line:-3 about any of the guests and the children. 130 00:07:25.960 --> 00:07:27.960 align:middle line:-3 It just wouldn't have crossed our mind. 131 00:07:27.960 --> 00:07:29.960 align:middle line:-2 And if I think back now, 132 00:07:29.960 --> 00:07:33.960 align:middle line:-3 no wonder Gary Glitter was always polite and nice to me 133 00:07:33.960 --> 00:07:36.000 align:middle line:-3 because that gives him access to more children, 134 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:38.960 align:middle line:-3 more whatever it is that he was trying to gain access to, 135 00:07:38.960 --> 00:07:42.960 align:middle line:-3 which makes it even more sickening when you think back. 136 00:07:42.960 --> 00:07:46.960 align:middle line:-2 # I love you, love 137 00:07:46.960 --> 00:07:48.960 align:middle line:-2 # You love me, too, love 138 00:07:48.960 --> 00:07:52.160 align:middle line:-2 # I love you, love me... # 139 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:53.960 align:middle line:-2 Wait, wait, wait! 140 00:07:53.960 --> 00:07:56.800 align:middle line:-3 Because it would have to be the one and only Gary Glitter in person. 141 00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:57.960 align:middle line:-3 Gary! APPLAUSE 142 00:08:04.960 --> 00:08:09.160 align:middle line:-3 Do young ladies go to great lengths to get next to you, as it were? 143 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:10.960 align:middle line:-3 Yeah, thank goodness. Oh. 144 00:08:10.960 --> 00:08:13.960 align:middle line:-3 I go to great lengths to get next to them, too. 145 00:08:15.640 --> 00:08:16.960 align:middle line:-2 "It's mutual," he says. 146 00:08:16.960 --> 00:08:18.160 align:middle line:-3 I'm having a look round the audience now 147 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:19.960 align:middle line:-2 to see if there's anyone I fancy. 148 00:08:19.960 --> 00:08:21.960 align:middle line:-3 We've got some on the bean bags lined up for you. 149 00:08:21.960 --> 00:08:22.960 align:middle line:-3 Lovely. We always line our artists up. 150 00:08:22.960 --> 00:08:26.960 align:middle line:2 You can see the sway that they held over the audience, can't you, 151 00:08:26.960 --> 00:08:29.960 align:middle line:2 none of whom would ever have imagined... 152 00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:34.960 align:middle line:2 ..what, even at that time, those two were both doing. 153 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:37.000 align:middle line:-3 I am going to perform on television just now 154 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:39.960 align:middle line:-3 a feat which will make me out of friends 155 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:41.960 align:middle line:-2 with about 49 million young ladies 156 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:43.960 align:middle line:-3 because I am going to give Mr Gary Glitter away. 157 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:45.960 align:middle line:-3 I'm actually going to give him to a girl, see. 158 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:48.960 align:middle line:-2 Over here. Over here. 159 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:51.960 align:middle line:-2 Now, then, I think... 160 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:54.160 align:middle line:-3 Would you like Mr Glitter next to you two ladies? 161 00:08:54.160 --> 00:08:57.960 align:middle line:-3 One can't necessarily say when it started. 162 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:02.960 align:middle line:-2 But what I do know is that in 1975, 163 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:05.960 align:middle line:-3 and he will then have been aged about 31, 164 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:09.960 align:middle line:-3 he had already attempted to rape an eight-year-old girl. 165 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.960 align:middle line:-2 'And he did it in his own home. 166 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:17.960 align:middle line:-2 'She was a friend of the family.' 167 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.960 align:middle line:-3 There was an occasion when he had a dinner party downstairs, 168 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:24.960 align:middle line:-3 and it was after the dinner party was over that he came upstairs 169 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:27.960 align:middle line:-3 to where she was sleeping and came into her room, 170 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:30.960 align:middle line:-3 and she could remember the repellent smell 171 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:32.960 align:middle line:-3 of alcohol and cigarettes on his breath. 172 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:38.960 align:middle line:-2 'She later gave an interview 173 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:40.960 align:middle line:-3 'describing what she said had happened to her.' 174 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:44.960 align:middle line:-2 RECORDING: By now, he turned to me. 175 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:50.960 align:middle line:-5 And at first, I thought he was just maybe cuddling me and... 176 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:52.960 align:middle line:-5 lying up against me, and it didn't feel comfortable. 177 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:57.160 align:middle line:-5 You know, I didn't know him well enough for him to be doing that. 178 00:09:57.160 --> 00:09:58.960 align:middle line:-4 So I lay there really still. 179 00:09:59.960 --> 00:10:01.960 align:middle line:-4 And... 180 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:03.960 align:middle line:-4 he was too close. 181 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:05.960 align:middle line:-4 And, erm... 182 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:08.640 align:middle line:-5 then I felt him lifting up my nightie. 183 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:10.960 align:middle line:-4 Erm... 184 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:14.960 align:middle line:-4 And then... 185 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:18.960 align:middle line:-4 And then I felt it. 186 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.160 align:middle line:-3 'There is a certain tone to her voice, isn't there?' 187 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:28.960 align:middle line:-3 You can almost sense it playing in her mind 188 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:30.160 align:middle line:-2 as she's describing it. 189 00:10:32.160 --> 00:10:34.960 align:middle line:-3 'There were no blurred lines in this case. 190 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:37.960 align:middle line:-3 'We weren't talking about late adolescence here.' 191 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:41.960 align:middle line:-3 We were talking about very young children. 192 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:43.960 align:middle line:-2 Very young children. 193 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:57.960 align:middle line:-3 'I was a showbiz journalist on Sounds music magazine, 194 00:10:57.960 --> 00:10:59.960 align:middle line:-2 'and I got invited to this launch 195 00:10:59.960 --> 00:11:02.960 align:middle line:-3 'of the Gary Glitter single, Dance Me Up, at The Hippodrome.' 196 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:06.640 align:middle line:-2 # Dance, dance, dance 197 00:11:06.640 --> 00:11:08.960 align:middle line:-2 # Dance me up... # 198 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:13.960 align:middle line:-3 'And that's how I met him. And then just used to meet him 199 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:15.960 align:middle line:-3 'at other rock-and-roll parties and whatever.' 200 00:11:17.640 --> 00:11:20.960 align:middle line:-3 Good God. Not seen this for 30 years. Unbelievable! 201 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:21.960 align:middle line:-2 'He had that sort of personality 202 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:25.000 align:middle line:-3 'where he sort of won you over, like, you know. 203 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:32.320 align:middle line:-3 'It wasn't until years later, you heard the rumours. 204 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:38.960 align:middle line:-3 'I was just interviewing my friend for a book. 205 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:40.960 align:middle line:-3 'And he just brought it up in conversation. 206 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:42.960 align:middle line:-3 'He said, "I did a job for Gary Glitter once." 207 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:48.960 align:middle line:-3 'My friend and his friend were doing security for Glitter, 208 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:53.640 align:middle line:-3 'plus, they was bringing the boxes from the van to the dressing room 209 00:11:53.640 --> 00:11:55.320 align:middle line:-3 'And I'm not sure when the year was, 210 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:57.480 align:middle line:-3 'but I think it must have been about 1990. 211 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:00.960 align:middle line:-2 'He said the box come open 212 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:02.960 align:middle line:-3 'and all these Polaroid pictures came out.' 213 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.320 align:middle line:-3 He said he didn't think anything of it straightaway. 214 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:09.960 align:middle line:-3 But then when he picked 'em up, he looked at 'em, 215 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:11.960 align:middle line:-3 and there was pictures of underage children. 216 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:16.960 align:middle line:-3 'And he was, like, automatically disgusted with it. 217 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:19.000 align:middle line:-2 'And he had words with Glitter. 218 00:12:21.160 --> 00:12:23.960 align:middle line:-2 'Glitter immediately shed tears. 219 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:25.960 align:middle line:-3 ' "I'll pay you money. I'll pay you your fee." 220 00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:26.960 align:middle line:-2 'They didn't want his fee.' 221 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:28.960 align:middle line:-3 'They said, "We're not doing anything for you." ' 222 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:30.320 align:middle line:-2 He didn't do his gig. 223 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:32.960 align:middle line:-3 They just set fire to his wig and left. 224 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:35.960 align:middle line:-2 # I love you, love me... # 225 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:37.960 align:middle line:-2 'I thought, "Jesus, you're joking." 226 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:40.960 align:middle line:-3 'Although I met Gary Glitter, I just thought he was a... 227 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:43.960 align:middle line:-3 'I just thought he was like a weirdo who chatted people up. 228 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:45.960 align:middle line:-3 'I didn't know he was into young children or whatever.' 229 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:51.960 align:middle line:-3 You know, I was the victim when I was in a children's home 230 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.960 align:middle line:-3 so my hatred of perverts and that is inborn. 231 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:58.000 align:middle line:-2 It's raw, it's deep, it runs deep. 232 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:03.960 align:middle line:-3 What helped Glitter was that he was playing a character, 233 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:05.960 align:middle line:-2 he dressed as Gary Glitter, 234 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:08.960 align:middle line:-3 and he done all them crimes as... What was it? Paul Gadd. 235 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:13.960 align:middle line:-3 So I think that's probably why he got away with it for so long 236 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:16.800 align:middle line:-2 cos he was an alter ego, wasn't he? 237 00:13:16.800 --> 00:13:20.000 align:middle line:-3 As sexy as ever, the leader, Gary Glitter! 238 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:21.960 align:middle line:-2 APPLAUSE 239 00:13:33.160 --> 00:13:35.960 align:middle line:-3 How are you? Leader! 240 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:38.480 align:middle line:-3 Oh! She knows how to make a young boy happy. 241 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:39.960 align:middle line:-2 SHE LAUGHS 242 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:48.960 align:middle line:2 'When you met him and spoke to him, he was a gentleman.' 243 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:50.960 align:middle line:-3 I'm not just another women here sitting 244 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:51.960 align:middle line:-2 to do you a very nice interview. 245 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:55.960 align:middle line:-3 I'm a fan. I've got... Now you're talking my language. 246 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:56.960 align:middle line:-2 And certain things, 247 00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:00.960 align:middle line:-3 the raise of an eyebrow and a little look were expected, 248 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:02.960 align:middle line:-2 but they weren't a real threat. 249 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:04.320 align:middle line:-2 You get more and more outrageous, 250 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:06.320 align:middle line:-3 I was in one of your concerts one, on the front row, 251 00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:08.000 align:middle line:-3 and your codpiece nearly poked my eye out. 252 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.960 align:middle line:-3 It gets bigger every show, doesn't it? 253 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:13.960 align:middle line:-3 I mean, you are a bit... You are a bit overt, Gary. 254 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:17.960 align:middle line:-3 I hope it continues to get bigger at every show. 255 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:22.480 align:middle line:-3 I never got any vibes that he was interested, ever, 256 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:24.000 align:middle line:-2 in anyone, really. 257 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:29.960 align:middle line:-3 Now, Jimmy Savile is a totally different, different kettle of fish. 258 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:33.000 align:middle line:-3 There'd always been rumours about Savile. 259 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:37.960 align:middle line:-3 He tried to grab me onto his knee for a photo shoot once. 260 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:40.320 align:middle line:-2 'And I said, "No!" I said, "Off!" 261 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:42.960 align:middle line:-3 'With Gary Glitter, there was none of that.' 262 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.000 align:middle line:-3 Oh, you're totally, totally outrageous. 263 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:53.960 align:middle line:-3 'If Gary Glitter had been a sexual predator of women, 264 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:56.160 align:middle line:-2 'my antenna would have been going.' 265 00:14:56.160 --> 00:14:58.960 align:middle line:-3 And as you look back, in retrospect, 266 00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:01.960 align:middle line:-3 it was because he wasn't interested in grown-ups, 267 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:03.960 align:middle line:-2 he was interested in children. 268 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:06.960 align:middle line:-3 You were sort of the heart of gold. You look after the kids in the club. 269 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:08.960 align:middle line:-3 It's a bit like you in real life, isn't it? 270 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:11.960 align:middle line:-3 Well, I'm always surrounded by teenagers and kids. 271 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:14.640 align:middle line:-3 I mean, the rest of the cast are very young, 272 00:15:14.640 --> 00:15:17.960 align:middle line:-3 and I think if you can keep an open mind with young people, 273 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:18.960 align:middle line:-2 erm, it's great. 274 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:20.800 align:middle line:-3 And that's what rock and roll is all about. 275 00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:22.960 align:middle line:-2 It's made me realise 276 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.960 align:middle line:-3 that with all the years' experience I'd had then 277 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:28.960 align:middle line:-2 and even have now, 278 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:32.960 align:middle line:-2 you can be so very, very wrong. 279 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:52.960 align:middle line:-2 CHEERING 280 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:54.960 align:middle line:-3 IAIN LEE: 'He appeared on This Is Your life, 281 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.160 align:middle line:-2 'which was a huge show. 282 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:04.960 align:middle line:-3 'He's always been a part of my life, he's always been there.' 283 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:09.960 align:middle line:-5 I kind of got into him, in a semi-ironic way, about '88, '89 284 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:11.800 align:middle line:-4 when I was 15 and 16, 285 00:16:11.800 --> 00:16:14.960 align:middle line:-3 and me and my friends would go off and see him in concert, you know, 286 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:18.160 align:middle line:-3 and every time he spoke, we would shout, "Leader, Leader!" 287 00:16:18.160 --> 00:16:21.960 align:middle line:-3 Tessa Dahl. Tessa! Tessa, Tessa, Tessa! 288 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:28.640 align:middle line:-3 There's that uncomfortable bit in it where someone comes out and says, 289 00:16:28.640 --> 00:16:31.960 align:middle line:-3 "Oh, Gary, you stayed with us when you had a breakdown or something." 290 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:36.960 align:middle line:-5 Gary actually came to live in my house when he was between jobs. 291 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:39.160 align:middle line:-3 Between jobs, yeah. I was absolutely broke! 292 00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:44.960 align:middle line:-3 He kind of does something like that, "Don't... don't talk about that." 293 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:47.800 align:middle line:-3 My sister Lucy turned it into quite a successful venture 294 00:16:47.800 --> 00:16:48.960 align:middle line:-2 because she used to pack the train 295 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.960 align:middle line:-3 full of her adolescent school friends in school uniforms. 296 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.800 align:middle line:2 And she'd bring them up to the house, 297 00:16:55.800 --> 00:16:58.960 align:middle line:2 and charge them £5 a head to come and gaze at Glitter. 298 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:02.160 align:middle line:-3 She wouldn't have known about what he was doing, 299 00:17:02.160 --> 00:17:06.960 align:middle line:-3 but looking at that now, what were we thinking? 300 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:11.960 align:middle line:-3 Why didn't someone hone in on that and say, "Hang on, what is this?" 301 00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:15.960 align:middle line:-2 The fact that he was such a big star 302 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.960 align:middle line:-3 is what allowed him to groom and rape children. 303 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:22.960 align:middle line:-2 If he'd just been Paul Gadd, 304 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:25.640 align:middle line:-3 yeah, he would have still have been a paedophile. 305 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:30.000 align:middle line:-3 The Gary Glitter persona made it easier to do it. 306 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:38.320 align:middle line:-3 I was abused around about the age of eight or nine 307 00:17:38.320 --> 00:17:41.160 align:middle line:-2 by a very loud character. 308 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:44.960 align:middle line:-3 He did the same kind of tricks that Glitter did 309 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:49.160 align:middle line:-3 in that he and other people around him were trusted by parents. 310 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:53.960 align:middle line:-2 One of the tricks of paedophiles 311 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.960 align:middle line:-3 is to make you think you're the only person. 312 00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:58.960 align:middle line:-2 "I'm not doing this to anyone else." 313 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:02.960 align:middle line:-3 It's manipulation and control, and making you feel isolated. 314 00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:08.960 align:middle line:-3 I can speak of the three girls that I know. 315 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:10.960 align:middle line:-5 One of whom was the eight-year-old girl 316 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:14.960 align:middle line:-5 who he attempted to rape in his home in 1975. 317 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:17.960 align:middle line:-3 The other two women in the case were teenage girls 318 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:21.960 align:middle line:-3 who had come into contact with him after concerts. 319 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:27.320 align:middle line:-3 One of the girls attended a concert on consecutive nights in Leicester. 320 00:18:27.320 --> 00:18:28.960 align:middle line:-2 And then on the second night, 321 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:32.960 align:middle line:-3 she and her mother were invited back to his hotel. 322 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:35.160 align:middle line:-3 And then while the two of them were there, 323 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:38.960 align:middle line:-3 somebody quietly ushered the mum out of the room. 324 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.000 align:middle line:-3 This is a girl who was about 12 at the time. 325 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.960 align:middle line:-2 It was, in effect, child rape. 326 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.480 align:middle line:-3 And then the third girl was in his changing room, 327 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:57.960 align:middle line:-3 and again, the situation was manipulated 328 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:04.960 align:middle line:-3 so that the mother was persuaded to leave their daughter alone with him. 329 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:09.960 align:middle line:-3 If they'd been asked in similar circumstances 330 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:11.960 align:middle line:-3 to leave their daughter with a stranger, 331 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:15.960 align:middle line:-3 they would have almost certainly refused to do it. 332 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:17.960 align:middle line:-2 They thought they knew him. 333 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:19.960 align:middle line:-3 But of course, they didn't. It was an illusion. 334 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:25.960 align:middle line:-3 I think it's one of the most shocking cases that I've dealt with. 335 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:28.960 align:middle line:-3 My client was repeatedly raped by him. 336 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:34.960 align:middle line:2 And the manner in which he did all of that 337 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.960 align:middle line:2 was particularly depraved and revolting. 338 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:40.960 align:middle line:-3 My client's always been absolutely insistent 339 00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:42.960 align:middle line:-2 that she wants to be anonymous. 340 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:44.960 align:middle line:-2 But at the same time, she... 341 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:47.960 align:middle line:-3 she wants to get across what sort of man this was. 342 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:51.960 align:middle line:-3 I mean, she said to me the other day, you know, 343 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.960 align:middle line:-3 "I will never get any peace over this. 344 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:55.960 align:middle line:-2 "It haunts me constantly." 345 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:58.960 align:middle line:-3 And she has, you know, nightmares about it all the time. 346 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.960 align:middle line:-3 I don't believe it's ever a case with these cases 347 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.960 align:middle line:-3 that literally nobody knew about it or nobody suspected. 348 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:12.960 align:middle line:-3 I think that people just didn't want to acknowledge what was going on. 349 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:46.960 align:middle line:-3 God, the tune's terrible, but the lyrics are disgusting. 350 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.960 align:middle line:-3 I can imagine him sitting at home, watching himself perform that, 351 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:54.960 align:middle line:-3 thinking he's pulled the wool over people's eyes. 352 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:57.960 align:middle line:-2 And he's a grown man singing that. 353 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:00.960 align:middle line:-3 It's that "hiding in plain sight" thing. 354 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:06.960 align:middle line:-3 He was telling us what he was doing but no-one picked up on the clues. 355 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:10.960 align:middle line:-2 Mirror, mirror, framed in gold. 356 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:13.960 align:middle line:-2 In your depths, the story holds. 357 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:17.480 align:middle line:-3 I'm a rock star who became a monster! 358 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:19.960 align:middle line:-2 Again, he's telling us, 359 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:25.960 align:middle line:-3 and he was grooming an entire generation by being on the TV, 360 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:27.960 align:middle line:-2 by being on kids' shows. 361 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:29.960 align:middle line:-2 And he would have known that. 362 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:30.960 align:middle line:-2 Well, I'm on the bed with, 363 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:32.960 align:middle line:-3 of course, you already know I'm on the bed with Gary Glitter. 364 00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:36.960 align:middle line:-3 But what is amazing about Gary, how could I start? 365 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:38.960 align:middle line:-3 How many amazing things can I say about Gary? 366 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:41.960 align:middle line:-3 One of the amazing things about Gary, is, of course, 367 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:43.960 align:middle line:-3 that he has sold over 18 million records 368 00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:45.960 align:middle line:-2 and still managed to go bankrupt. 369 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:47.480 align:middle line:-2 LAUGHTER 370 00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:48.960 align:middle line:-2 This was like the coolest show 371 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.960 align:middle line:-3 that everybody watched cos it was completely new. 372 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:54.960 align:middle line:-3 What did you used to spend all your money on? 373 00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.960 align:middle line:-2 Very extravagant things, you know. 374 00:21:57.960 --> 00:21:58.960 align:middle line:-2 Like, erm... 375 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:02.480 align:middle line:-3 I used to ring up the Playboy Club in London 376 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:05.960 align:middle line:-3 and get a coachload of Bunnies down most evenings. 377 00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:06.960 align:middle line:-2 LAUGHTER, CHEERING 378 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.960 align:middle line:-3 Just generally, lots of good sex, drugs, and rock n roll. 379 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:13.960 align:middle line:-3 But of course, it was allowed, you could do that in the '70s. 380 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:16.160 align:middle line:-3 Now everyone is leading such a clean life. 381 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.640 align:middle line:-3 Who do you coach down to your house now? Erm. You... 382 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:20.960 align:middle line:-2 LAUGHTER 383 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:22.480 align:middle line:-2 You sneaked that one in. 384 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:25.960 align:middle line:-3 I have got a couple of good friends that come around. 385 00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:28.640 align:middle line:-3 Have you? Are they very young? 386 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:31.960 align:middle line:-3 How old is very young? Whenever I think about you, 387 00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:34.960 align:middle line:-3 I do imagine you with rather young nubile girls. 388 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:38.160 align:middle line:-3 Well, yes. I mean... What do you call young? 389 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.960 align:middle line:-3 24, 23, that sort of age? That's quite young. 390 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:44.960 align:middle line:-3 Whoa! His face, you see it for a second, you see it, you see it, 391 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:48.960 align:middle line:-3 and he doesn't know how to get out of it. 392 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:50.960 align:middle line:-3 He looks really, really uncomfortable 393 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:54.960 align:middle line:-2 and, at the time, he's, erm... 394 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.960 align:middle line:-3 I keep using the phrase "raping children", 395 00:22:57.960 --> 00:22:59.960 align:middle line:-2 cos I don't like saying sex 396 00:22:59.960 --> 00:23:03.000 align:middle line:-3 cos sex makes it sound like something adult and consensual, 397 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:04.480 align:middle line:-2 and it's not, 398 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.960 align:middle line:-3 and it's important to remember these are children. 399 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.320 align:middle line:-2 And... 400 00:23:08.320 --> 00:23:12.000 align:middle line:-3 You see just a glimpse of him there, panicking. 401 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:17.960 align:middle line:-2 Gary! Gary! 402 00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:20.320 align:middle line:-2 CROWD SHOUTS 403 00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:25.960 align:middle line:-2 CHEERING 404 00:23:27.320 --> 00:23:28.960 align:middle line:-2 My name is Chris Boffey, 405 00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:33.960 align:middle line:-3 I was a reporter, Fleet Street journalist for 40 plus years. 406 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:41.960 align:middle line:-3 I got a call from the news editor of the News Of The World 407 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:43.960 align:middle line:-2 asking me to sort out a buyout 408 00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:49.960 align:middle line:-3 with a girl who says she had underage sex with Gary Glitter. 409 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:54.960 align:middle line:-3 She had a stash of photographs, including many pictures of him bald, 410 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:56.960 align:middle line:-3 and no-one had ever seen that picture. 411 00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:01.480 align:middle line:-3 She also had a story to tell how she was sexually assaulted by Glitter. 412 00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:05.960 align:middle line:-3 She told us about how they met when she was aged 11. 413 00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:09.960 align:middle line:-3 But she said the relationship didn't become physical 414 00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:11.960 align:middle line:-2 until she was about 14. 415 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.960 align:middle line:-5 It was a tidal wave, really, I was on a roller-coaster. 416 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:20.960 align:middle line:-4 In some ways, it was wonderful, 417 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.960 align:middle line:-5 but there was also this very dark side. 418 00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:28.320 align:middle line:-5 And also the fact that these things had happened to me 419 00:24:28.320 --> 00:24:32.960 align:middle line:-5 were at the back of my mind all the time. 420 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:34.960 align:middle line:-2 I drew up an affidavit, which... 421 00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:37.960 align:middle line:-3 Basically, bullet points about what she said to us. 422 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.960 align:middle line:-3 And when I took the copy of the affidavit to her lawyer, 423 00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:43.800 align:middle line:-2 she was there and she read it, 424 00:24:43.800 --> 00:24:46.320 align:middle line:-3 and went very pale and dashed out of the room. 425 00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:47.960 align:middle line:-2 And I think she was violently ill. 426 00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:50.960 align:middle line:-3 Because she had actually seen it in black and white, 427 00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:51.960 align:middle line:-2 what had happened to her. 428 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:54.960 align:middle line:-2 It was very chastening. 429 00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.000 align:middle line:-3 The reality was the newspaper was more interested 430 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.640 align:middle line:-3 in the fact that this was the first picture of Gary Glitter bald. 431 00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:06.800 align:middle line:-3 And this was very prominently displayed 432 00:25:06.800 --> 00:25:08.960 align:middle line:-3 both on the front pages and inside pages. 433 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:13.960 align:middle line:-3 There was no reaction to her being 14 at the time 434 00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:16.960 align:middle line:-3 when the relationship, if you could call it a relationship, started. 435 00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:20.960 align:middle line:-3 "Showbiz exclusive." Showbiz. 436 00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:24.960 align:middle line:-3 They're missing the story that they had sex when she was 14. 437 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:26.320 align:middle line:-2 They're calling it "making love." 438 00:25:26.320 --> 00:25:30.960 align:middle line:-3 14-year-olds cannot consent to making love. That is sexual assault. 439 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:32.960 align:middle line:-3 This is sold as a little bit of smutty fun. 440 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:37.960 align:middle line:-3 "Pop star sleeps with young girl" was not unusual. 441 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:38.960 align:middle line:-2 It was a different time, 442 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:42.960 align:middle line:-3 and I don't think young girls were seen as victims then. 443 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:47.160 align:middle line:-3 I had obviously gone to the police, they had all the details, 444 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.960 align:middle line:-3 but no-one ever contacted me from the police, 445 00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:54.320 align:middle line:-3 and I've no idea if they followed it up at all. 446 00:25:54.320 --> 00:25:59.960 align:middle line:-3 This should have been the thing that got him shut down, and it didn't, 447 00:25:59.960 --> 00:26:04.800 align:middle line:-3 and he would still be performing for quite a while after this. 448 00:26:04.800 --> 00:26:06.800 align:middle line:-3 Let's hear it for the Leader Of The Gang himself, 449 00:26:06.800 --> 00:26:10.960 align:middle line:-3 and a Children In Need salute to the king of glam rock, 450 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:11.960 align:middle line:-2 Mr Gary Glitter. 451 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:13.960 align:middle line:-2 CHEERING 452 00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:15.960 align:middle line:-2 MUSIC PLAYS 453 00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:22.960 align:middle line:-2 # Hello, hello 454 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:25.960 align:middle line:-3 # It's good to be back Good to be back. # 455 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:28.960 align:middle line:-3 That's Mike Read, is it? Yeah, I thought I recognised him. 456 00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:31.960 align:middle line:-3 The tribute to Gary Glitter on Children In Need, 457 00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:35.640 align:middle line:-3 he would see as one of the high points of his career. 458 00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.960 align:middle line:-3 Y'know, he'd done This Is Your Life, he'd done Jim'll Fix It, 459 00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:41.960 align:middle line:-2 and now he's getting this tribute 460 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:43.960 align:middle line:-5 on a programme which went out nationally 461 00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:45.960 align:middle line:-5 where millions would've been viewing it. 462 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:47.320 align:middle line:-2 Yeah. One of my heroes. 463 00:26:47.320 --> 00:26:49.640 align:middle line:-2 My boyhood hero, him. 464 00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:53.160 align:middle line:-3 And, Blackburn, are you still in a trance or what? 465 00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:56.960 align:middle line:-3 No, I'm not in a trance. No more. He's my hero as well. 466 00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.960 align:middle line:-3 'It was quite shocking to see Radio 1 DJs 467 00:26:59.960 --> 00:27:02.960 align:middle line:-2 'describing Gary as their hero. 468 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:05.800 align:middle line:-3 'Even though there's been allegations against him 469 00:27:05.800 --> 00:27:06.960 align:middle line:-2 'in the newspapers, 470 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:10.960 align:middle line:-3 'he's just there on the stage, the adulation of the crowd, 471 00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:12.960 align:middle line:-2 'the leader of the pack.' 472 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.960 align:middle line:-3 # Do you wanna be in my gang My gang, my gang? # 473 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:18.960 align:middle line:-3 And then having his music included in the film, Spice World, 474 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:23.960 align:middle line:-3 where the Spice Girls are performing one of Gary's biggest hits, 475 00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:27.960 align:middle line:-3 in this energetic manner, would have been a huge deal for him. 476 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:29.480 align:middle line:-2 At that time, 477 00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:33.800 align:middle line:-3 the Spice Girls were probably the biggest band in the world. 478 00:27:33.800 --> 00:27:35.800 align:middle line:-3 What do you think of the Spice Girls phenomenon? 479 00:27:35.800 --> 00:27:37.000 align:middle line:-2 The Spice Girls are amazing. 480 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:39.960 align:middle line:-2 I've always believed in girl power 481 00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:41.960 align:middle line:-3 and with my album coming out this year, 482 00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:44.960 align:middle line:-3 there'll be a lot of male power back again. 483 00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.960 align:middle line:2 I don't see Gary Glitter as any different 484 00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:15.960 align:middle line:2 from many of the other child abusers that are part of my day-to-day life. 485 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:19.960 align:middle line:-3 I believe that if they abuse children, 486 00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:24.960 align:middle line:-3 erm, it is virtually impossible to change that pattern of behaviour. 487 00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:29.960 align:middle line:-3 And, erm, so to leave abusers walking the street, 488 00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:32.960 align:middle line:-3 for me, just means that they will continue to abuse 489 00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:35.160 align:middle line:-3 many, many more children until they're stopped, 490 00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:37.160 align:middle line:-2 and I still believe that today. 491 00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:42.960 align:middle line:-3 But all those people who were around him, 492 00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:44.960 align:middle line:-3 I don't believe for one single moment 493 00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:46.960 align:middle line:-3 that some of them didn't know what was happening. 494 00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.960 align:middle line:-3 And there will have been many reasons why they turned away. 495 00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:57.960 align:middle line:-3 I know how difficult it is to step out of the crowd. 496 00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:01.960 align:middle line:-3 But I do believe that we all have a moral responsibility 497 00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:03.960 align:middle line:-2 to protect children. 498 00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:28.960 align:middle line:-2 'I was photographing in Cuba 499 00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:32.960 align:middle line:-3 'and I came across Gary Glitter at a swimming pool in Havana. 500 00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:36.960 align:middle line:-3 'I used to go to this hotel to come and swim.' 501 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:41.160 align:middle line:-5 And there was a man in a great big wig with make-up 502 00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:44.960 align:middle line:-2 in a purple velvet jumpsuit. 503 00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:47.960 align:middle line:-2 By the pool, and there he was. 504 00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:50.960 align:middle line:-3 He stripped that off, down to his little black briefs. 505 00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:53.960 align:middle line:-3 And he, instead of the usual music around the pool, 506 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:56.000 align:middle line:-3 there was, "Do you want to be in my gang?" 507 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:58.960 align:middle line:-2 # I'm the leader 508 00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:00.960 align:middle line:-2 # I'm the leader of the gang... # 509 00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.480 align:middle line:-2 As the afternoon wore on, 510 00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.960 align:middle line:-3 I noticed one man brought three very young girls, 511 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:10.320 align:middle line:-3 probably between the ages of eight, 12 or 13. 512 00:30:10.320 --> 00:30:11.960 align:middle line:-2 One of them seemed to know him. 513 00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:17.960 align:middle line:-3 This wasn't "playtime with children" behaviour. 514 00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:21.960 align:middle line:-3 That's sort of why it made me really suspicious in the first place. 515 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:24.960 align:middle line:-2 The next day, another three. 516 00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:26.960 align:middle line:-2 They turned up on their own. 517 00:30:28.320 --> 00:30:30.000 align:middle line:-2 Then, I also had my cameras on me, 518 00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.960 align:middle line:-3 so I decided that I would record this, 519 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:36.960 align:middle line:-3 because it was getting sort of uncomfortable. 520 00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:39.960 align:middle line:-3 He kept asking to put their arms around him. 521 00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:41.960 align:middle line:-2 It didn't look right at all. 522 00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:43.960 align:middle line:-2 This is them arriving. 523 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:48.960 align:middle line:-3 Just strange, a man of this age with these three children, 524 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:50.960 align:middle line:-2 and all this kissing. 525 00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:54.960 align:middle line:-3 Then he would disappear, and one of them would disappear. 526 00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:57.960 align:middle line:-2 It was uncomfortable. 527 00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:01.960 align:middle line:-3 I did even say something to the management, 528 00:31:01.960 --> 00:31:07.960 align:middle line:-3 and they would say, "It's fine, he's well behaved, he tips... 529 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:11.960 align:middle line:-3 "He's great with us" and things. So nothing was really said. 530 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:17.640 align:middle line:-3 I would never have interfered with him or pictures 531 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:20.960 align:middle line:-3 if I hadn't thought something pretty dark was going on. 532 00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:23.960 align:middle line:-2 I think I did the right thing. 533 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:26.960 align:middle line:-2 The hunch was correct. 534 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:27.960 align:middle line:-2 Boy, was it correct, yeah. 535 00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:33.960 align:middle line:-5 NEWSREADER: The pop star Gary Glitter 536 00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:35.960 align:middle line:-4 has been questioned by police 537 00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:38.960 align:middle line:-4 after claims that child pornography 538 00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:41.800 align:middle line:-3 was discovered on a computer he had taken into a shop to be repaired. 539 00:31:41.800 --> 00:31:42.960 align:middle line:-5 NEWSREADER 2: Detectives this morning 540 00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:45.960 align:middle line:-5 searched two homes belonging to the star 541 00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:49.320 align:middle line:-3 and seized a number of videos and pictures of children. 542 00:31:49.320 --> 00:31:51.960 align:middle line:-2 It tells you something, doesn't it? 543 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:54.960 align:middle line:-3 That he should have taken that laptop for repair 544 00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:56.320 align:middle line:-2 with those images on it, 545 00:31:56.320 --> 00:31:58.160 align:middle line:-3 and it shouldn't have crossed his mind 546 00:31:58.160 --> 00:31:59.960 align:middle line:-2 what might happen as a result. 547 00:31:59.960 --> 00:32:02.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: Gary Glitter spent six hours with the police, 548 00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:05.640 align:middle line:-3 after which he was charged under his real name, Paul Francis Gadd, 549 00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:06.960 align:middle line:-2 with 50 offences 550 00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:10.960 align:middle line:-3 of making indecent pseudo pictures of children under the age of 16. 551 00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:14.960 align:middle line:-3 And in the wake of that discovery, two complainants came forward, 552 00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.960 align:middle line:-2 one was the eight-year-old who... 553 00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:19.960 align:middle line:-3 He attempted to rape her in his home. 554 00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:23.480 align:middle line:-3 That was the moment when she felt able to come forward. 555 00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:29.960 align:middle line:-2 She later gave an interview, 556 00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:33.640 align:middle line:-3 when she's describing hearing about him being arrested for the computer. 557 00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:37.960 align:middle line:-4 When I heard about the pornography. 558 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:41.800 align:middle line:-4 I was just really angry 559 00:32:41.800 --> 00:32:45.960 align:middle line:-5 because it just became instantly clear to me 560 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:48.960 align:middle line:-4 that this had never ever stopped. 561 00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:50.960 align:middle line:-4 It was still his thing. 562 00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:54.800 align:middle line:-2 Hearing her speak, 563 00:32:54.800 --> 00:32:56.960 align:middle line:-3 you can hear great anger at the thought 564 00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.960 align:middle line:-3 that what had happened to her was still continuing. 565 00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:02.960 align:middle line:-4 All these years later, 566 00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:07.960 align:middle line:-5 he was still doing what he had always done. 567 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:11.960 align:middle line:-5 I felt like, "This is it, people will know. 568 00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:15.960 align:middle line:-5 "Maybe there is a chance that I might be believed." 569 00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:19.960 align:middle line:-5 REPORTER: Gary Glitter is charged with a string of sex offences 570 00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:23.960 align:middle line:-5 dating back to 1975, involving a girl aged under 13 571 00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:26.800 align:middle line:-4 and another aged under 16. 572 00:33:26.800 --> 00:33:28.960 align:middle line:-3 There are five counts of indecent assault 573 00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:31.160 align:middle line:-3 and four of another serious sexual assault. 574 00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:33.960 align:middle line:-3 On top of that, there are 51 charges 575 00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:37.960 align:middle line:-3 of either making or possessing indecent photographs of children. 576 00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:39.960 align:middle line:-2 The second woman who came forward 577 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:44.960 align:middle line:-3 was the lady who, in 1993, had already spoken to the press 578 00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:47.960 align:middle line:-2 about her relationship with him. 579 00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:53.960 align:middle line:-3 It sometimes takes decades for people to come forward. 580 00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:57.000 align:middle line:-2 I now work as a counsellor. 581 00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:00.960 align:middle line:-3 I have clients who bring all kinds of issues to me 582 00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:06.960 align:middle line:-3 but yeah, I also have survivors of child sexual abuse who I work with. 583 00:34:09.160 --> 00:34:13.480 align:middle line:-3 People who haven't experienced that can be really suspicious 584 00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:15.960 align:middle line:-3 when someone comes out 30, 40, 50 years later 585 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:17.960 align:middle line:-2 and says, "This happened to me." 586 00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:20.160 align:middle line:-2 And a lot of people have that thing, 587 00:34:20.160 --> 00:34:22.960 align:middle line:-3 "They're jumping on the bandwagon, they're doing it for money. 588 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:24.960 align:middle line:-3 "Why didn't they say it at the time?" 589 00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:27.800 align:middle line:-3 There's loads of reasons why they didn't say it at the time. 590 00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:28.960 align:middle line:-3 They were afraid, they were ashamed, 591 00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:30.960 align:middle line:-3 they would have possibly thought it was their fault. 592 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:34.480 align:middle line:-2 And it can take decades for people 593 00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:36.960 align:middle line:-3 to feel the strength and the confidence 594 00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:41.320 align:middle line:-2 to speak about their experiences. 595 00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:57.160 align:middle line:-3 To find that there wasn't even going to be a trial of it 596 00:34:57.160 --> 00:34:59.800 align:middle line:-3 because it had all happened so long ago 597 00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:02.960 align:middle line:-3 will have been damaging and upsetting to her. 598 00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:05.960 align:middle line:-3 Faced with that set of circumstances, 599 00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:08.960 align:middle line:-2 she decided to go public 600 00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:13.000 align:middle line:-3 and to state what she said had happened to her. 601 00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:15.960 align:middle line:-4 I was devastated. 602 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:18.960 align:middle line:-5 Because there's this protective window of time 603 00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:21.640 align:middle line:-4 set in place by the legal system. 604 00:35:21.640 --> 00:35:23.960 align:middle line:-5 So all the time that clock is ticking, 605 00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:27.960 align:middle line:-5 a child abuser is getting safer and safer, 606 00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:32.960 align:middle line:-5 and it just seems so wrong that that's the case. 607 00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:36.960 align:middle line:-3 You can hear the resentment of what had happened 608 00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.960 align:middle line:-3 and how unfair and unjust she felt that it was. 609 00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:45.960 align:middle line:-3 There was now only one woman to give evidence in the trial, 610 00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:51.640 align:middle line:-3 and that will have weakened the strength of the case. 611 00:35:51.640 --> 00:35:53.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'Arriving at Bristol Crown Court, 612 00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:56.960 align:middle line:-3 'Gary Glitter literally bounced with confidence. 613 00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:58.960 align:middle line:-2 'Flamboyant as ever, 614 00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:01.960 align:middle line:-3 'wearing his familiar quiffed wig and ponytail.' 615 00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:03.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'Bristol Crown Court was told today 616 00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:08.960 align:middle line:-3 'that the rock star Glitter seduced one of his fans when she just 14. 617 00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:11.480 align:middle line:-3 'The 55-year-old singer, whose real name is Paul Gadd, 618 00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:14.320 align:middle line:-3 'denies that he sexually assaulted the young girl.' 619 00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:16.960 align:middle line:-2 She told a compelling story 620 00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:19.000 align:middle line:-5 of how she had first met Glitter at the age of 11. 621 00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:21.960 align:middle line:-5 He then saw her at a concert, invited her up to stage, 622 00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:23.640 align:middle line:-4 met her parents backstage. 623 00:36:23.640 --> 00:36:25.960 align:middle line:-3 They were so impressed, "What a nice man he is," 624 00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:26.960 align:middle line:-2 invited him back for lunch. 625 00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:28.960 align:middle line:-2 He stayed five days, 626 00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.960 align:middle line:-3 and the relationship built up with that. 627 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:32.960 align:middle line:-3 He gradually weaned her away from her parents, 628 00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:34.960 align:middle line:-2 first in a hotel room 629 00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:37.960 align:middle line:-3 where he then encouraged her to watch him in a bath, 630 00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:39.960 align:middle line:-3 and when he emerged, the first sexual act, 631 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:41.960 align:middle line:-2 sex abuse, took place. 632 00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:44.960 align:middle line:-2 The danger, of course, 633 00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:47.960 align:middle line:-3 of being brave enough to bring your case to the court 634 00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:52.960 align:middle line:-3 is that you are then cross-examined but the defendant's barrister. 635 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:54.960 align:middle line:-3 And in this case, an absolute master, 636 00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:57.960 align:middle line:-3 and he absolutely ripped her to shreds. 637 00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.960 align:middle line:-2 REPORTER: 'Defence barrister said 638 00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:02.960 align:middle line:-3 'the jury should not believe the woman's evidence 639 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:05.960 align:middle line:-3 'because she'd waited almost 20 years to make a complaint 640 00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:08.960 align:middle line:-3 'and only then after selling her story for £25,000 641 00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:11.960 align:middle line:-3 'to the to the News Of The World if Glitter is convicted.' 642 00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:16.960 align:middle line:-3 The criminal justice system is brutal. 643 00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:21.320 align:middle line:-3 One victim standing against one abuser. 644 00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:23.960 align:middle line:-5 It's always gonna be very difficult to prove 645 00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:28.960 align:middle line:-5 because a jury is going to give the suspect the benefit of the doubt 646 00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:30.960 align:middle line:-2 because the judge will direct them 647 00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:34.960 align:middle line:-3 that you have to convict beyond any reasonable doubt. 648 00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:39.640 align:middle line:-2 When she decided to go public, 649 00:37:39.640 --> 00:37:42.320 align:middle line:-3 she went to the press before she went to the police. 650 00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:45.960 align:middle line:-3 And that was fatal to her chances of convincing the jury. 651 00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:50.960 align:middle line:-3 It was extremely uncomfortable to watch a woman 652 00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:53.800 align:middle line:-3 who I thought had clearly been abused, 653 00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:56.960 align:middle line:-3 and she was reduced to absolute tears of frustration. 654 00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:01.960 align:middle line:-3 And my abiding memory is as she left the witness box for the last time, 655 00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:05.960 align:middle line:-3 she turned round to look directly at Glitter in the dock, 656 00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:10.960 align:middle line:-3 with her big eyes full of tears and just sort of imploring, 657 00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:12.960 align:middle line:-3 beseeching him, "Why have you done this?" 658 00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:17.960 align:middle line:2 You made a deal with the News Of The World 659 00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:20.960 align:middle line:2 that you would've got more money if he'd been found guilty, 660 00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:22.960 align:middle line:2 and that deal had been allowed to stand. 661 00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:25.960 align:middle line:2 Do you regret entering that agreement with the newspaper now? 662 00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:27.960 align:middle line:2 With hindsight, if I would've known 663 00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.160 align:middle line:2 he was going to use that as his only defence, 664 00:38:30.160 --> 00:38:32.960 align:middle line:2 really, in the case against me, of course. 665 00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:35.960 align:middle line:2 But in saying that, the News Of The World made people aware 666 00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:38.320 align:middle line:2 two years before the police could 667 00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:42.000 align:middle line:2 of the kind of person that he is or was. 668 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.960 align:middle line:-3 Yes, now, I didn't think this helped at all, this. 669 00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:48.960 align:middle line:-2 The judge also told the jury... 670 00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:53.960 align:middle line:-3 that there are 14-year-old girls, and there are 14-year-old girls. 671 00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:55.960 align:middle line:-2 And he's pointed out, 672 00:38:55.960 --> 00:38:56.960 align:middle line:-2 "There are some 14-year-olds 673 00:38:56.960 --> 00:38:59.960 align:middle line:-3 "who look like a sophisticated young lady... 674 00:38:59.960 --> 00:39:02.960 align:middle line:-3 "And some 14-year-olds still look like little girls. 675 00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:06.960 align:middle line:-3 "You may wish to consider which category the girl was in." 676 00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:09.960 align:middle line:-2 14 is 14. 677 00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:11.960 align:middle line:-2 Under the terms of the law, 678 00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:16.960 align:middle line:-3 under the age of 16, you... are protected. 679 00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:20.960 align:middle line:-3 And it's not a judge's place to say that, in my opinion. 680 00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:23.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'With the characteristic twitch of the head, 681 00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:27.960 align:middle line:-3 'the '70s rock star arrived at court to hear his fate.' 682 00:39:34.640 --> 00:39:38.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'This morning, a jury cleared him of all the offences. 683 00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:40.960 align:middle line:-3 'They decided there was enough reasonable doubt 684 00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:42.960 align:middle line:-3 'about the alleged victim's evidence.' 685 00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.960 align:middle line:2 Of course, I was absolutely devastated 686 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.960 align:middle line:2 when he was found not guilty of the allegations that I'd made. 687 00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:54.960 align:middle line:2 I went to court to tell the truth, and that's all that I could do. 688 00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:58.960 align:middle line:2 If I can speak out, maybe other people can as well. 689 00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:01.960 align:middle line:2 And despite the fact of the not guilty verdict, 690 00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:05.640 align:middle line:2 I still can stand with dignity 691 00:40:05.640 --> 00:40:09.960 align:middle line:2 and say that what happened to me is the truth. 692 00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:22.960 align:middle line:-3 These were not merely images of children without clothes. 693 00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:29.480 align:middle line:-3 These were images of adults engaging in sexual activity 694 00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:32.960 align:middle line:-2 with very, very young children, 695 00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:37.960 align:middle line:-3 what people would describe as toddlers or babies. 696 00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:38.960 align:middle line:-2 So it was... 697 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:42.960 align:middle line:-2 ..as bad as it gets. 698 00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:48.960 align:middle line:-3 Each charge was read, and he had to make the response. 699 00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:52.960 align:middle line:-3 He started mumbling "guilty" and was told to speak up. 700 00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:53.960 align:middle line:-2 And then he started turning away 701 00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:55.960 align:middle line:-3 and tried to talk into his shoulder 702 00:40:55.960 --> 00:41:00.800 align:middle line:-3 in some sort of display of phoney self-loathing. 703 00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:03.960 align:middle line:-3 But in the public gallery, I have never seen such a transformation 704 00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:06.960 align:middle line:-2 from the glee that they had before. 705 00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:11.960 align:middle line:-3 Suddenly, jaws dropped, eyes went wide. 706 00:41:11.960 --> 00:41:14.960 align:middle line:-3 A real look of horror on the faces of his fans 707 00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:17.640 align:middle line:-2 who had no idea 708 00:41:17.640 --> 00:41:18.960 align:middle line:2 that the man they hero-worshipped, 709 00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:22.960 align:middle line:2 was in fact a filthy paedophile. 710 00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:26.160 align:middle line:-3 The pop star Gary Glitter has been jailed for four months 711 00:41:26.160 --> 00:41:28.960 align:middle line:-2 after pleading guilty to 54 counts 712 00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:30.960 align:middle line:-3 of making indecent photographs of children. 713 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:32.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'It emerged that some of the photos 714 00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:34.960 align:middle line:-3 'revealed young girls being tortured, 715 00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:37.480 align:middle line:-2 'tied up, gagged and blindfolded. 716 00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:40.960 align:middle line:-3 'He left in disgrace, his career in ruins, 717 00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:42.960 align:middle line:-3 'a convicted criminal, who will now be placed 718 00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:45.640 align:middle line:-3 'on the police register as a sex offender.' 719 00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:49.960 align:middle line:-3 Four months sounds a powder puff penalty 720 00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:54.320 align:middle line:-3 for such a huge amount of absolute perverted filth. 721 00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:56.960 align:middle line:-3 And I think it reflected the fact that the law had not caught up 722 00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:58.960 align:middle line:-3 with what the internet was capable of. 723 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:02.960 align:middle line:-3 It was a sentence of four months' imprisonment, 724 00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:04.960 align:middle line:-2 of which he served half. 725 00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:08.160 align:middle line:-3 I venture to suggest that for images of that kind, 726 00:42:08.160 --> 00:42:11.960 align:middle line:-3 the sentence now, the position would've been rather more severe. 727 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:16.960 align:middle line:2 INTERVIEWER: If you could speak to Gary Glitter tonight, 728 00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:18.960 align:middle line:2 what would you say to him? 729 00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:21.960 align:middle line:2 WOMAN: I'd ask him whether he really was sorry 730 00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:25.480 align:middle line:2 and if he really did know the true intensity 731 00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.320 align:middle line:2 and the true severity of the kind of damage that he's done. 732 00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:42.480 align:middle line:-3 The pop star Gary Glitter is due to be released 733 00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:43.960 align:middle line:-2 from a Bristol prison today 734 00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:45.960 align:middle line:-3 after serving half of a four-month sentence 735 00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:47.960 align:middle line:-2 for possession of child pornography. 736 00:42:49.640 --> 00:42:52.960 align:middle line:-3 Gary will just hang around for a few minutes to be photographed... 737 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:55.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'As his solicitor explained terms 738 00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:56.960 align:middle line:-2 'to the assembled media, 739 00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:01.800 align:middle line:-3 'Gary Glitter sat silently behind the tinted windows of his car. 740 00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:05.960 align:middle line:-3 'Then, in what looks like a final theatrical flourish, 741 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:07.000 align:middle line:-2 'he appeared.' 742 00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:09.960 align:middle line:-2 I remember it. 743 00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:14.960 align:middle line:-3 Making it appear as though this was some temporary aberration 744 00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:17.960 align:middle line:-3 and that he was now looking to, as it were, start again. 745 00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:25.960 align:middle line:-3 I deeply regret doing what I was sent to prison for. 746 00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:29.960 align:middle line:-2 I've served my time. 747 00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:37.960 align:middle line:2 I want to put it all behind me and live my life. 748 00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:39.960 align:middle line:-2 As a sex offender, 749 00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:43.960 align:middle line:-3 once you are released, you're free to carry on your life 750 00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:47.960 align:middle line:-3 and disappear into the ether, really. 751 00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:50.960 align:middle line:-3 And another country wouldn't necessarily be aware 752 00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:53.960 align:middle line:-2 that you are a sex offender. 753 00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:11.960 align:middle line:-3 I heard that he was going around with his motorcycle and his bandana. 754 00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:14.960 align:middle line:-4 That's why it also enraged me 755 00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:18.960 align:middle line:-5 because this guy feels like he's a King of Cambodia or something. 756 00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:23.640 align:middle line:-2 When I heard his name, Gary Glitter, 757 00:44:23.640 --> 00:44:25.160 align:middle line:-2 I went, "Gary Glitter?" 758 00:44:25.160 --> 00:44:28.960 align:middle line:-3 I quickly googled his name, and I was horrified. 759 00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:33.960 align:middle line:-3 He came to Cambodia to buy children, to have sex, 760 00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:37.960 align:middle line:-3 like the rest of these ugly men that we see in these bars. 761 00:44:41.960 --> 00:44:43.000 align:middle line:-2 My name is Luke Hunt. 762 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:46.960 align:middle line:-3 I was a journalist for Agence Presse in Cambodia. 763 00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:53.960 align:middle line:-3 Cambodia was attracting a lot of dubious characters, 764 00:44:53.960 --> 00:44:56.960 align:middle line:-3 pardon the cliche, a haven for paedophiles. 765 00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:00.960 align:middle line:-2 It was easy to get a visa, 766 00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:04.160 align:middle line:-3 and there were no shortage of kids without families who were hungry. 767 00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.480 align:middle line:-3 For some types of people, this was an attraction. 768 00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:14.960 align:middle line:-3 When it comes to child sex offenders, 769 00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:17.960 align:middle line:-3 Gary Glitter, he was just another one of them. 770 00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:19.960 align:middle line:-3 And he wasn't trying to use his celebrity, 771 00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:22.960 align:middle line:-3 he was really trying... doing his best to hide. 772 00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:28.960 align:middle line:-3 We had an idea where he was staying, where he got his first apartment, 773 00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:31.640 align:middle line:-3 and then it became a bit of a game of cat and mouse 774 00:45:31.640 --> 00:45:33.960 align:middle line:-3 about where he was and following him around. 775 00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:37.960 align:middle line:-3 And that was the one time we did confront him, 776 00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:41.960 align:middle line:-2 and, er, I got some photographs. 777 00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:43.960 align:middle line:-3 The reason why they couldn't find him 778 00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:46.960 align:middle line:-3 was because he was always wearing his motorbike helmet. 779 00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:51.960 align:middle line:-3 MU SOCHUA: Gary Glitter was escaping from the UK. 780 00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:53.000 align:middle line:-2 Why did he get out? 781 00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:55.960 align:middle line:-2 How was he able to be a free man? 782 00:45:55.960 --> 00:45:57.320 align:middle line:-2 I was enraged. 783 00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:02.960 align:middle line:-3 Right away, I said, "I'm gonna go after this guy, 784 00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:06.960 align:middle line:-3 "and he has to leave the country as soon as possible." 785 00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:09.960 align:middle line:-5 The message from Cambodia is very clear - 786 00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:13.960 align:middle line:-4 Cambodia is not a safe haven 787 00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:18.960 align:middle line:-5 for people who have committed crimes against children in their country 788 00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:20.960 align:middle line:-2 or anywhere in the world. 789 00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:23.960 align:middle line:-2 By the end of 2002, 790 00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:28.960 align:middle line:-3 the police made allegations that he had abused children. 791 00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:32.960 align:middle line:-3 It was enough to have him arrested and held for two days. 792 00:46:34.160 --> 00:46:36.960 align:middle line:-3 When he was arrested, I felt relieved. 793 00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:41.320 align:middle line:-3 But I was told also that he was going to Vietnam. 794 00:46:41.320 --> 00:46:44.320 align:middle line:-3 I said, "Are you sure he is not coming back?" 795 00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:45.960 align:middle line:-2 Sure enough, he came back. 796 00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:49.960 align:middle line:-2 I was not surprised. 797 00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:53.960 align:middle line:-3 I was told that he had a lot of money, he had a lot of protection. 798 00:46:55.640 --> 00:46:59.960 align:middle line:-3 When you're looking at 2003, '04 and '05, 799 00:46:59.960 --> 00:47:03.960 align:middle line:-3 he was basically traversing between Vietnam and Cambodia. 800 00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:09.160 align:middle line:-3 But the end of 2005, there were quite a few more reports coming in. 801 00:47:09.160 --> 00:47:10.960 align:middle line:-2 Allegations were made 802 00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:14.960 align:middle line:-3 that he had molested children in Cambodia. 803 00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:18.960 align:middle line:-3 When they went to find him, he'd gone. 804 00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:20.960 align:middle line:-3 Basically, he left before he was deported, 805 00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:23.960 align:middle line:-3 and he went back to his place in Vietnam. 806 00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:30.480 align:middle line:-3 As soon as he left Cambodia, the government was happy with it. 807 00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:32.800 align:middle line:-2 "No longer our business." 808 00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:38.480 align:middle line:-3 That's why these, er, paedophiles... survived. 809 00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:39.960 align:middle line:-2 That's how they survive. 810 00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:55.320 align:middle line:-3 ANDREW DRUMMOND: The first time I heard that he was in Vietnam, 811 00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:56.960 align:middle line:-4 I was asked to go and find him. 812 00:47:59.480 --> 00:48:01.640 align:middle line:-5 On this occasion, we just went in as tourists 813 00:48:01.640 --> 00:48:05.000 align:middle line:-3 and met one of the foreigners living in Vung Tau 814 00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.960 align:middle line:-2 who had tipped off the newspaper. 815 00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:09.960 align:middle line:-2 I think within 24 hours, 816 00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:12.960 align:middle line:-3 we had established where Gary Glitter lived. 817 00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.960 align:middle line:-2 So then we put a watch on the house. 818 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:21.960 align:middle line:-3 Glitter came out with what seemed to be a young girl. 819 00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:26.960 align:middle line:-2 I would've said 15, 16. 820 00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:29.800 align:middle line:-3 I don't think it was an unfair assumption that something was up. 821 00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:34.960 align:middle line:-3 I think Gary Glitter, er, was aware that the bomb was going to drop. 822 00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:37.960 align:middle line:-3 Because I went back and banged on the door, 823 00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:39.800 align:middle line:-2 basically told to go away. 824 00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:41.960 align:middle line:-3 And I knew I wasn't going to get a word out of him. 825 00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:44.480 align:middle line:-3 And by the following morning, he'd gone, 826 00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:46.960 align:middle line:-3 and he was, I think, in Ho Chi Minh City, 827 00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:48.000 align:middle line:-2 possibly the same night. 828 00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:52.960 align:middle line:-3 The singer Gary Glitter has been arrested 829 00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:56.960 align:middle line:-3 at an airport in Vietnam, as he tried to board a flight to Bangkok. 830 00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:59.960 align:middle line:-3 The 61-year-old was wanted by Vietnamese police over allegations 831 00:48:59.960 --> 00:49:03.160 align:middle line:-3 about his relationships with two underage girls. 832 00:49:06.640 --> 00:49:08.960 align:middle line:-3 From his legal office in downtown Saigon, 833 00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:11.960 align:middle line:-3 Le Thanh Kinh is Gary Glitter's best hope. 834 00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:15.960 align:middle line:-4 SPEAKS OWN LANGUAGE: 835 00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:38.960 align:middle line:-3 He masturbated over one girl twice on two separate occasions. 836 00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:40.960 align:middle line:-2 I think the second girl, 837 00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:44.960 align:middle line:-3 he had oral sex with on a couple of occasions. 838 00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:47.960 align:middle line:-2 So I don't think it's any doubt 839 00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:50.320 align:middle line:-3 that Gary Glitter actually committed offenses, 840 00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:52.960 align:middle line:-2 and they were serious offenses. 841 00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:57.960 align:middle line:-3 When I was about to fly out to Vietnam 842 00:49:57.960 --> 00:49:59.160 align:middle line:-2 to cover the Glitter story... 843 00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:03.960 align:middle line:-5 ..I didn't know at that point that I was gonna speak to the victims. 844 00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:05.960 align:middle line:-5 But it turned out that's where it took me. 845 00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:09.960 align:middle line:-3 The thing that always hit home that I remember, 846 00:50:09.960 --> 00:50:12.480 align:middle line:-2 15 years after the story, 847 00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:14.800 align:middle line:-2 was that line she gave me, 848 00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:17.000 align:middle line:-3 "I never forget the things Mr Gary did to me." 849 00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:21.960 align:middle line:-3 And I just thought that very succinctly 850 00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:26.960 align:middle line:-3 spelled out that this girl had been violated by Gary Glitter 851 00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:28.960 align:middle line:-2 in the most awful way, 852 00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:32.960 align:middle line:-3 and she was gonna remember that for the rest of her life. 853 00:51:03.960 --> 00:51:05.960 align:middle line:-3 That sort of shocked a lot of other people, 854 00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:09.000 align:middle line:-3 but if you've worked in Asia for... for a long time, 855 00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:13.480 align:middle line:-3 that is often quite actually sort of seen as a good result. 856 00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:15.960 align:middle line:-3 The fact that some guy's going to jail 857 00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:18.960 align:middle line:-3 is not going to help the family, particularly, 858 00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:21.000 align:middle line:-2 but I'm afraid cash is. 859 00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:24.960 align:middle line:-3 Even officials view this as one way of sorting things out. 860 00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:27.960 align:middle line:-3 But of course, it can be grossly misused. 861 00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:43.640 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'The former pop star Gary Glitter 862 00:51:43.640 --> 00:51:47.160 align:middle line:-5 'has gone on trial in Vietnam, accused of molesting two girls. 863 00:51:47.160 --> 00:51:49.960 align:middle line:-5 'If convicted, Glitter, whose real name is Paul Gadd, 864 00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:51.960 align:middle line:-5 'could face up to seven years in jail.' 865 00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:54.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'After years trying to evade the spotlight, 866 00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:56.960 align:middle line:-2 'this was the day Gary Glitter 867 00:51:56.960 --> 00:51:59.960 align:middle line:-2 'and his secret, sordid life abroad 868 00:51:59.960 --> 00:52:02.000 align:middle line:-2 'were officially laid bare. 869 00:52:03.320 --> 00:52:04.960 align:middle line:-2 'The judge described him as abnormal 870 00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:07.640 align:middle line:-2 'and sick and said he needed help.' 871 00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:15.960 align:middle line:-3 You've been found guilty. I am innocent. It's a conspiracy. 872 00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:19.960 align:middle line:-2 It's a conspiracy by you know who. 873 00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:24.640 align:middle line:-3 One or more newspapers, you know who. 874 00:52:24.640 --> 00:52:26.960 align:middle line:-2 I will be taking legal action. 875 00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:28.960 align:middle line:-3 There was some controversy over the sentence, 876 00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:31.960 align:middle line:-2 I think, which was three years. 877 00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:35.960 align:middle line:-3 The word was already out that Gary Glitter had paid the assaulted girls 878 00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:38.480 align:middle line:-2 and asked for leniency. 879 00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:54.800 align:middle line:-3 Six years after he was freed from jail in England, 880 00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:57.960 align:middle line:-3 Glitter is now starting another jail sentence. 881 00:52:57.960 --> 00:53:00.320 align:middle line:-3 He's clearly furious about the verdict, 882 00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:04.320 align:middle line:-3 and how long he serves in prison is open to question. 883 00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:08.000 align:middle line:-3 'But tonight, he's wearing a prisoner's uniform. 884 00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:11.960 align:middle line:-3 'For now, at least, Gary Glitter is in their gang.' 885 00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:18.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'Gary Glitter is now a free man. 886 00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:22.800 align:middle line:-3 'But after a lifetime of celebrity, today, he shunned the limelight. 887 00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:25.960 align:middle line:-3 'It was media scrutiny that tracked him down here in Vietnam 888 00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:29.960 align:middle line:-3 'and led to his conviction on abusing two young girls.' 889 00:53:29.960 --> 00:53:31.960 align:middle line:-4 SPEAKS OWN LANGUAGE: 890 00:53:47.960 --> 00:53:49.960 align:middle line:-3 We were all booked on the flight he was booked on. 891 00:53:49.960 --> 00:53:51.960 align:middle line:-2 CHATTER 892 00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:54.960 align:middle line:-2 MAN: Come on, leader. Up you come. 893 00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:56.960 align:middle line:-2 So when we landed in Bangkok, 894 00:53:56.960 --> 00:53:59.960 align:middle line:-3 we had to tell the Thai police who Gary Glitter was first. 895 00:53:59.960 --> 00:54:04.160 align:middle line:-3 We had to explain why he shouldn't be allowed into the country. 896 00:54:06.640 --> 00:54:09.960 align:middle line:-3 So on arrival, the police came onto the aircraft and took him airside, 897 00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:12.800 align:middle line:-2 so he wasn't allowed into Thailand. 898 00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:16.960 align:middle line:-2 He then flew out to Hong Kong. 899 00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:18.960 align:middle line:-2 Yet another country has refused 900 00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:20.960 align:middle line:-3 to allow in the disgraced singer Gary Glitter. 901 00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:23.640 align:middle line:-3 This time, he's been turned away from Hong Kong. 902 00:54:23.640 --> 00:54:24.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'His options are shrinking fast. 903 00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:28.320 align:middle line:-3 'Singapore, Cambodia and many other countries 904 00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:29.960 align:middle line:-2 'have also closed their doors.' 905 00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:32.960 align:middle line:-3 It still appears only one country has been prepared to take him - 906 00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:34.480 align:middle line:-2 Britain. 907 00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:37.160 align:middle line:-3 The one country that, until tonight, it seemed, 908 00:54:37.160 --> 00:54:38.960 align:middle line:-2 he wasn't prepared to go to. 909 00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:47.960 align:middle line:2 When Glitter came back here, 910 00:54:47.960 --> 00:54:50.960 align:middle line:2 I was determined to keep the heat on him. 911 00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:56.960 align:middle line:-3 He couldn't lead a completely normal life 912 00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:59.960 align:middle line:-3 cos he had to wear a disguise when he went out. 913 00:54:59.960 --> 00:55:02.960 align:middle line:-3 I would go to near Regent Street with a photographer 914 00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:05.960 align:middle line:-3 where Glitter has a property and to try and catch him. 915 00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:08.960 align:middle line:-2 To try and show the public 916 00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:11.960 align:middle line:-3 that this man is being allowed to continue his life 917 00:55:11.960 --> 00:55:15.960 align:middle line:-3 and enjoy the fruits of his... of a very successful music career. 918 00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:20.480 align:middle line:-2 It also helps to shine a light 919 00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:22.960 align:middle line:-3 on what do we do with these paedophiles, 920 00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:24.960 align:middle line:-3 especially those that have come back from abroad, 921 00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:27.960 align:middle line:-3 and he's living freely in our society, 922 00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:29.960 align:middle line:-2 and what's he gonna do next? 923 00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:36.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'Last year, Jimmy Savile's coffin 924 00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:38.960 align:middle line:-3 'was driven past Leeds General Hospital, 925 00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:41.960 align:middle line:-3 'where he'd worked as a volunteer porter. 926 00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:44.960 align:middle line:-2 'Hospital staff joined the crowds, 927 00:55:44.960 --> 00:55:47.960 align:middle line:-3 'saying their goodbyes and applauding him. 928 00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:49.960 align:middle line:-2 'How things have changed.' 929 00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:53.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'Tonight, Exposure investigates allegations 930 00:55:53.960 --> 00:55:54.960 align:middle line:-2 'that away from the cameras, 931 00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:57.960 align:middle line:-3 'Sir Jimmy Savile was far from the genial eccentric.' 932 00:55:57.960 --> 00:55:59.960 align:middle line:-3 I do remember the documentary about Savile 933 00:55:59.960 --> 00:56:04.960 align:middle line:-3 that was the catalyst for Operation Yewtree. 934 00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:09.800 align:middle line:2 And Yewtree is the fallout of the documentary. 935 00:56:09.800 --> 00:56:11.960 align:middle line:-2 Yewtree wasn't just about him, 936 00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:13.960 align:middle line:-2 it was about all of the others 937 00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:16.000 align:middle line:-2 who had the fingers pointed at them 938 00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:18.960 align:middle line:-3 in the wake of the revelations about him. 939 00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:22.960 align:middle line:-3 And Paul Gadd was a notable figure within that group. 940 00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:26.960 align:middle line:-5 REPORTER: 'Paul Gadd, on his way to a police station this morning. 941 00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:28.960 align:middle line:-4 'His name has been in the frame 942 00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:31.960 align:middle line:-5 'since the Jimmy Savile scandal broke three weeks ago. 943 00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:33.960 align:middle line:-4 'And just after 7am this morning, 944 00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:36.000 align:middle line:-3 'officers arrested the man in his 60s 945 00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:39.800 align:middle line:-2 'on suspicion of sexual offences.' 946 00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:43.960 align:middle line:-3 I prosecuted Paul Gadd at the Crown Court at Southwark. 947 00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:46.960 align:middle line:-2 And in that case were three women. 948 00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:51.960 align:middle line:-3 And Yewtree does explain how it was that within three years, 949 00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:54.960 align:middle line:-3 Gary Glitter was charged with serious sexual offenses 950 00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:57.000 align:middle line:-2 against three children. 951 00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:00.960 align:middle line:-3 One of whom was the eight-year-old girl who he attempted to rape 952 00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:03.160 align:middle line:-2 that had been stopped in 1999. 953 00:57:03.160 --> 00:57:06.480 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'Known to millions as Gary Glitter, 954 00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.160 align:middle line:-3 'the former pop star arrived at Southwark Crown Court 955 00:57:09.160 --> 00:57:11.160 align:middle line:-2 'for the start of his trial.' 956 00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:16.960 align:middle line:-3 'I first came into contact with Paul Francis Gadd 957 00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:19.640 align:middle line:-5 'when he was on trial at Southwark Crown Court.' 958 00:57:19.640 --> 00:57:22.960 align:middle line:-5 Mr Gadd is 70 years old and wears hearing aids in both ears. 959 00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:26.960 align:middle line:-3 He was flanked inside the dock by two lip-reading interpreters. 960 00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:30.640 align:middle line:-3 I think there was real shock in the courtroom 961 00:57:30.640 --> 00:57:32.960 align:middle line:-3 amongst the media and journalists covering it 962 00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:35.960 align:middle line:-3 that the youngest victim was eight years old. 963 00:57:35.960 --> 00:57:37.960 align:middle line:-2 This was an eight-year-old 964 00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:41.960 align:middle line:-3 who had gone to sleep over at a family friend's property 965 00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:44.960 align:middle line:-3 and ended up the victim of an attempted rape. 966 00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:48.960 align:middle line:-3 It was a little detail that she gave. 967 00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:52.960 align:middle line:-3 She said that she managed to avoid what he was trying to do 968 00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:55.960 align:middle line:-3 because she fell off the edge of the bed, 969 00:57:55.960 --> 00:57:58.320 align:middle line:-3 and where the covers and the sheet had been tucked 970 00:57:58.320 --> 00:57:59.640 align:middle line:-2 beneath the mattress, 971 00:57:59.640 --> 00:58:01.960 align:middle line:-3 there was a sort of what I'd described to the jury 972 00:58:01.960 --> 00:58:03.960 align:middle line:-2 as being a little cocoon, 973 00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:06.960 align:middle line:-3 and she fell off the mattress into this cocoon... 974 00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:11.160 align:middle line:-2 ..and that brought it to an end. 975 00:58:11.160 --> 00:58:14.960 align:middle line:-3 And he then fell asleep in a drunken state on the bottom of the bed, 976 00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:17.960 align:middle line:-3 and she managed to get out and go into the bathroom. 977 00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:22.960 align:middle line:-3 Those are the details that are so telling. 978 00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:27.960 align:middle line:-2 So the other two victims alleged 979 00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:31.480 align:middle line:-3 that they'd been abused backstage after concerts. 980 00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:35.000 align:middle line:-3 For any young person meeting their hero or meeting someone famous, 981 00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:37.960 align:middle line:-2 it should be a moment of joy. 982 00:58:37.960 --> 00:58:41.960 align:middle line:-3 In the case of Gadd, these young girls met an absolute monster. 983 00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:46.960 align:middle line:-2 REPORTER: 'Arriving for a day 984 00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:50.800 align:middle line:-3 'where his evidence would be challenged and tested. 985 00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:52.960 align:middle line:-3 'Under cross examination by John Price QC, 986 00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:54.800 align:middle line:-2 'he was asked directly 987 00:58:54.800 --> 00:58:59.960 align:middle line:-3 'why he was looking at pictures of men having sex with young children.' 988 00:58:59.960 --> 00:59:03.960 align:middle line:-3 I do have a very vivid memory of him breaking down. 989 00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:07.960 align:middle line:-2 And to be in company 990 00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:10.960 align:middle line:-2 with someone... 991 00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:14.960 align:middle line:-3 sobbing in circumstances like that for a long time 992 00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:16.960 align:middle line:-2 is an uncomfortable thing. 993 00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:18.960 align:middle line:-3 I watched it, and my jaw was on the floor 994 00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:22.160 align:middle line:-3 because I'd never seen a defendant behave like this before. 995 00:59:22.160 --> 00:59:27.960 align:middle line:-3 Yes, I'd seen defendants cry, I'd seen people giving evidence cry. 996 00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:29.960 align:middle line:-2 But this was all very self-centred. 997 00:59:29.960 --> 00:59:33.960 align:middle line:-3 There was no mention of the victims. It was all about Gadd. 998 00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:38.960 align:middle line:-3 In the end, most trials are about truth and lies. 999 00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:42.800 align:middle line:-3 Somebody's telling the truth, and somebody is not. 1000 00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:45.960 align:middle line:-3 It's a case of working out who it is. 1001 00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:48.000 align:middle line:-3 Drama inside Court One in the past few moments. 1002 00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:52.960 align:middle line:-3 The jury have now come back in with verdicts on all of those charges. 1003 00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:54.000 align:middle line:-2 There was no emotion. 1004 00:59:55.960 --> 00:59:57.960 align:middle line:-2 He stared at the floor. 1005 00:59:57.960 --> 01:00:00.960 align:middle line:-3 There was one word that kept coming back. 1006 01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:04.000 align:middle line:-3 Guilty of the attempted rape of a child under the age of ten. 1007 01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:06.000 align:middle line:-2 Guilty of five indecent assaults. 1008 01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:09.960 align:middle line:-3 Guilty of sex with a child under the age of 13. 1009 01:00:09.960 --> 01:00:12.960 align:middle line:-3 That one charge alone potentially carries a sentence 1010 01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:15.480 align:middle line:-2 of life in prison. 1011 01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:16.960 align:middle line:-3 Well, I'd be lying if I said to you 1012 01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:19.960 align:middle line:-3 it's anything other than immensely satisfying. 1013 01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:22.960 align:middle line:-3 Particularly because of the history, 1014 01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:25.960 align:middle line:-2 particularly, erm... 1015 01:00:25.960 --> 01:00:27.960 align:middle line:-2 I'll call her Woman A, 1016 01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:32.960 align:middle line:-3 that there was a huge amount invested in this outcome for her. 1017 01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:33.960 align:middle line:-2 And I... One of the... 1018 01:00:33.960 --> 01:00:36.320 align:middle line:-3 One of the memories I have of the case 1019 01:00:36.320 --> 01:00:39.960 align:middle line:-3 is the profound sense of vindication that she felt. 1020 01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:41.960 align:middle line:-2 After all these years, 1021 01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:45.960 align:middle line:-3 and they convicted him of attempting to rape her 1022 01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:47.960 align:middle line:-2 because she'd been believed. 1023 01:00:49.640 --> 01:00:51.960 align:middle line:-3 REPORTER: 'There was little reaction or emotion 1024 01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:54.960 align:middle line:-3 'from the former glam rock star as he was sentenced. 1025 01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:57.160 align:middle line:-3 'Some of his fans who were in the public gallery 1026 01:00:57.160 --> 01:01:00.960 align:middle line:-3 'waved at him as he was led away from the dock 1027 01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:03.960 align:middle line:-2 'to begin his 16 years in prison.' 1028 01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:09.960 align:middle line:-3 I feel very sad that these poor women 1029 01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:11.960 align:middle line:-2 had to wait 40 years for justice. 1030 01:01:11.960 --> 01:01:15.960 align:middle line:-3 I feel very sad that they felt that they could not report 1031 01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:19.960 align:middle line:-3 what had happened to them to the police for all those years. 1032 01:01:19.960 --> 01:01:22.960 align:middle line:-3 And I feel sorry that they had to suffer in silence. 1033 01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:29.160 align:middle line:-3 My client was one of the victims in the criminal trial in 2015. 1034 01:01:29.160 --> 01:01:32.960 align:middle line:-3 I think fundamentally that the justice that she wants 1035 01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:34.960 align:middle line:-2 is the justice that, frustratingly, 1036 01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:37.000 align:middle line:-3 is not really available through the system 1037 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:40.960 align:middle line:-3 because of when this happened, which is a life sentence for Gadd. 1038 01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:42.960 align:middle line:-2 He gets to come out of prison. 1039 01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:44.960 align:middle line:-2 Her suffering is life-long. 1040 01:01:46.960 --> 01:01:48.480 align:middle line:-2 My immediate question is - 1041 01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:50.960 align:middle line:-3 what about all the other victims in that period? 1042 01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:54.320 align:middle line:-3 Because he will never have stopped abusing children. 1043 01:01:54.320 --> 01:01:56.960 align:middle line:-2 That will never have gone away. 1044 01:01:56.960 --> 01:01:58.960 align:middle line:-3 When you grow up, will you run away with me? 1045 01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:00.640 align:middle line:-3 Or when I grow up, will I run away with you? 1046 01:02:00.640 --> 01:02:03.640 align:middle line:-3 I don't believe for one moment that some of the people 1047 01:02:03.640 --> 01:02:08.640 align:middle line:-3 that surrounded Gary Glitter didn't know what he was doing. 1048 01:02:08.640 --> 01:02:10.960 align:middle line:-2 And my question to them would be - 1049 01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:13.960 align:middle line:-2 why did you not do something sooner? 1050 01:02:13.960 --> 01:02:16.960 align:middle line:-3 I don't think it's possible to know if anybody knew 1051 01:02:16.960 --> 01:02:19.960 align:middle line:-3 because if anybody did know, they did nothing about it. 1052 01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:23.960 align:middle line:2 He hid behind Gary Glitter. 1053 01:02:23.960 --> 01:02:25.960 align:middle line:2 It's like an actor hiding behind a part. 1054 01:02:25.960 --> 01:02:27.960 align:middle line:2 It was a mask to throw you off the scent. 1055 01:02:29.960 --> 01:02:30.960 align:middle line:-2 But there were clues. 1056 01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:34.960 align:middle line:-3 "What your mama don't see, your mama don't know." 1057 01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:37.960 align:middle line:-3 I think without the News Of The World's involvement in this case, 1058 01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:40.640 align:middle line:-3 Glitter would have been convicted, I have no doubt at all about that. 1059 01:02:40.640 --> 01:02:42.960 align:middle line:-3 And that he would have been locked up then. 1060 01:02:42.960 --> 01:02:44.960 align:middle line:-3 Instead of being convicted of these terrible crimes 1061 01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:46.960 align:middle line:-2 that she says he committed, 1062 01:02:46.960 --> 01:02:48.960 align:middle line:-2 he was cleared. 1063 01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:50.960 align:middle line:-3 As one of the richest countries in the world, 1064 01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:53.960 align:middle line:-3 it always struck me as a bit of a scandal 1065 01:02:53.960 --> 01:02:55.960 align:middle line:-2 that we were complicit, in a way. 1066 01:02:55.960 --> 01:02:58.960 align:middle line:-3 We should not be letting our citizens travel round the world, 1067 01:02:58.960 --> 01:03:00.960 align:middle line:-3 abusing children in poorer countries. 1068 01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:04.960 align:middle line:2 WOMAN: I think it's unbelievable. 1069 01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:06.960 align:middle line:2 All of those children... 1070 01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.000 align:middle line:2 are someone's child, and that's wrong. 1071 01:03:10.640 --> 01:03:14.960 align:middle line:2 You know, he should be doing... 4,000 days, 1072 01:03:14.960 --> 01:03:17.800 align:middle line:2 4,000 years for doing that. 1073 01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:22.960 align:middle line:-3 We have some breaking news coming to you now here at the BBC, 1074 01:03:22.960 --> 01:03:26.960 align:middle line:-3 and it is that the disgraced pop star Gary Glitter 1075 01:03:26.960 --> 01:03:29.800 align:middle line:-2 has been freed from jail 1076 01:03:29.800 --> 01:03:33.960 align:middle line:-3 after serving half of his 16-year sentence. 1077 01:03:42.960 --> 01:03:44.960 align:middle line:-3 He'll never change. This is his life. 1078 01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:46.960 align:middle line:-2 This is all he's done. 1079 01:03:46.960 --> 01:03:49.960 align:middle line:-3 Paul Francis Gadd lived as a paedophile, 1080 01:03:49.960 --> 01:03:51.960 align:middle line:-2 and he will die as a paedophile. 1081 01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:26.960 align:middle line:-2 Subtitles by accessibility@itv.com 111146

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