Original subtitles

Hey, guys, as you may have seen,

my name has been associated with an Ashley Madison account.

This was brought to my wife's attention.

She has forgiven me for this, uh, mistake that I made.

I never had an affair with anybody, ever, while I've been married with Nia.

Um...

Gosh.

So dumb, man.

Was that true, what you said in the video?

No, what I said in the video was mostly... Pretty much all lies.

It was just like, "Protect yourself, man."

This is what the atonement's all about, forgiveness and second chances.

And I just wanna add too, guys,

I have forgiven Sam, and I stand behind him.

This is in our past.

It's unfortunate that it's being dug up right now,

but our marriage is worth fighting for, and it always will be.

Ah, I'm... I'm just like a little shocked after watching it, to be honest.

I'm like, "Whoa." Took me back for a minute.

I look at me in that video, and I see a naive, hopeful...

um...

kind of blinded girl.

It's really strange, like, knowing

that hours later I'm gonna think totally opposite.

Watch out, cheaters, or anybody who used the website Ashley Madison.

Hackers released thousands of e-mail addresses

and very private information on the dark web for everybody to see.

This is a horrendous and horrific invasion of privacy,

and it's very dangerous.

This was a difficult time to navigate.

We had the exec team, who were so swamped

that they didn't really have time to answer our questions.

We still didn't know who was responsible.

The theories were all over the place.

Maybe it was a competitor.

Maybe it was a... a jilted wife.

Cheating husband.

A disgruntled employee.

To be honest, I also thought it could be an anti-Semite

because of some of the threats Noel had received.

The Impact Team,

they sound like people who've been judging people for a long time,

and in this country and in most countries, they tend to be fundamentalists.

Theories are as wild as they come.

The media interest was crazy around the world.

We've all heard of that naughty website Ashley Madison.

- Ashley Madison. - Ashley Madison.

AshleyMadison.com.

The dating website that caters to people looking for extramarital affairs.

Press talking about Ashley Madison,

that was a lot of publicity for the company.

My thinking was, maybe this was a publicity stunt.

Okay, is the company responsible for this?

And even Noel was, for me, a suspect.

Noel, he just seemed like he might have had

many secrets.

When we were in the middle of all this frenzy,

Noel stopped showing up to the office.

It felt unnerving

that the very head of the company is not around

to sort of steer the ship through this crisis.

People were freaking out.

At that point, I thought it couldn't get any worse.

And then the shit really hit the fan.

Now the Ashley Madison hack, well, getting worse.

Hackers releasing yet another data dump, this one larger than the last.

Hackers releasing a second mountain of data

just days after posting tens of millions of e-mail addresses.

The Impact Team struck again,

and they dumped an even larger cache of files.

Close to 20 gigabytes of data.

Intellectual property, trade secrets.

Internal documents, files, spreadsheets, floor plans.

Everything a company does not want about itself

broadcast for anybody on the Internet to download.

The second wave appears to include a massive amount of e-mails

from CEO Noel Biderman.

Noel's entire personal and work e-mail inboxes

for years going back were dumped online.

As a journalist, my first thought is,

"Let me get my hands on them. I wanna look through them."

It was his whole e-mail account.

I think he knew at that point

how dangerous it would be if they were released.

This is, ya know, some real serious personal information.

This has the potential to be one of the messiest

and most legally troublesome data dumps in history.

We're being greeted by fans right away, guys.

After we posted the forgiven video, it was the next day,

we woke up and pretended like nothing ever happened.

This is Vlogger Fair, guys. This is what it looks like.

So we went to Vlogger Fair on the second day,

and a lot of the embarrassment had washed away from me.

He's been so sweet to me the last few days.

It felt like there was an understanding that a man could be curious, you know?

Yeah, you did somethin' dumb, and you're gonna say sorry.

I kinda had this feeling inside like, "It is all going to be okay."

I was really sure

that he really didn't cheat on me or have an affair.

- Yeah. - Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.

We left Vlogger Fair.

I remember our family text-message thread was kinda goin' off.

I wasn't keeping up with it very well.

But I did notice a text from one of the brothers saying,

"Sammy, you have to be fully honest."

And my wife is like, "What is he talking about?"

I'm like, "He's just tryin' to start crap. Just ignore it."

"No idea what he's talking about."

I was thinking.

I was sittin' next to this woman that I loved so much,

and I was still having to lie to her.

I was keeping a lot of secrets from Nia.

The secrets I were keeping from her went a lot deeper than Ashley Madison,

and a lot further back.

My intention was to go to my grave with this and not tell her.

Again, she asked me, "What is your brother talkin' about?"

I remember that really frustrating me. I was just like, "Come on!"

I was in a panic.

Everything was toppling on top of me.

I said, "I'm gonna pull over for a minute."

Sam got out of the car. I didn't know what was going on.

I called my pastor,

who's also a good friend of mine.

I answer, and then Sam is letting me know that something terrible has happened.

Hearing his shame and embarrassment,

he knows that his life is about to explode.

I'm starting to realize a little bit that I gotta tell Nia something else,

and I desperately don't want to,

and I want to hear my pastor tell me that I don't have to

and that we can keep it between us.

I said, "This is what living in dishonesty has brought you."

Now you need to live in truth.

I was like, "Oh man."

That was the, uh, the tipping point.

I knew that in order to stop lying I had to confess the truth of the past.

Eventually Sam got back in the car.

And he was like,

"I have a lot more to tell you."

"And it's not good."

Ashley Madison is scrambling to deal with

the release of more confidential material.

The hackers also releasing the contents of Biderman's own e-mails.

I got really excited when I heard they were gonna expose his e-mails.

Oh my gosh, I could not wait to see the stuff that they were gonna release.

I used to be a former adult entertainer.

Oh my.

My pistachio for the world to see.

- Pistachio? - Pistachio.

You're welcome. You won't be able to forget it.

Here comes Michelle McGee, a tattoo model who has sold a story to In Touch magazine.

People generally know me from the scandal with Jesse James and Sandra Bullock.

Five weeks of nonstop sex...

I had an affair with Jesse James.

It was all over the media.

Ashley Madison reached out.

They thought we could do some cross-promotional work.

They were gonna put me out there

as, ya know, the mistress, the villain, the cheater that breaks up marriages.

The first time I met Noel, he came in with his family,

and he had the impression of being very clean-cut,

very straight, very conservative.

But when the family left, the real Noel kinda came out.

I don't really think he's a good person.

I think Noel has many faces,

and he knew what was gonna be released in his e-mails,

what he was trying to hide from people.

He must have been shitting himself.

Thinking, "If they start digging, they'll find the real Noel."

When I downloaded the e-mails and was about to look through them,

it was exciting.

Sort of this treasure trove of information.

But it also felt...

It felt a little bit wrong.

There is really personal stuff in those e-mails

about Noel and his life and his family.

You don't cheat?

No. Ironically, one of the major benefits of running this business is

if anyone should know what it takes to be in a successful relationship, it's me.

It's about communication. I talk about this topic 24/7.

My wife and I are honest with one another about what we need in our relationship.

Noel would put himself out there as a married man

who claims to have never been cheating on his wife.

The point is that it's a business, and it's really separate from our life.

That's not the way you live your life?

Not at all.

Noel, the king of infidelity, who claims to not cheat on his wife,

absolute catnip for producers,

and media just ate it up.

- Are you married? - I am happily married.

I guess people find it ironic that I am in a monogamous marriage.

But evidence came out in the e-mails fairly quickly that actually

Noel had been having affairs with multiple women

um, over a period of years.

It was a lot. A lot, lot.

I think a lot of people felt it was ironic.

The king of infidelity is cheating.

Not... not a shock, but it went further.

From Noel.

It goes to this page, Victoria's Escort.

That's nice.

He was frequently contacting escort agencies and this and that.

From Emma S.

"Tell me what you're looking for in a sugar baby."

E-mail chain with Santiago Escorts.

Noel...

It's upsetting to read.

Uh, it's upsetting to imagine his wife finding out about that in the media.

- What if your husband cheated on you? - I'd be devastated.

Truth be told, I would be devastated.

Noel had convinced her to go on billboards around North America.

Taking her on The View,

saying, "Well, we have a great marriage, and we don't cheat."

And, uh, and it was all false.

And I just felt devastated for her

and... his kids.

With this second dump, the hackers post this message saying,

"Noel, you can admit this is real now."

Taunting and intimidating him.

Seeing that message

showed me just how intimately linked these hackers somehow were to this target.

They're not just targeting the company, they're targeting the CEO.

Noel was, for me, a suspect until they released his e-mails.

Because there was no point for him to release his own personal e-mails.

So that was the end of that.

They actually had a personal vendetta against Noel.

They knew that it would fuck Noel up big-time.

And they had a hate on for him, and they wanted him to suffer,

and he did suffer.

I'm driving in the car.

You know, Nia beside me.

I don't wanna look at Nia.

I gotta tell Nia more than what she knows,

and I was trying so hard to find the strength.

He was kind of nervous. I could see this about him.

My vision was really blurry, tryin' to s... see the road.

It just started coming out, man,

all the... all the betrayals from the very beginning.

Massage parlors, strip clubs, those were easy access to that...

To that pleasure that I wanted more of.

And I thought having that extra sex outside of marriage would be exciting.

There was just this shock.

He just proceeded for the next, I mean, few hours

to tell me

years of betrayals that he had acted out in our marriage.

It was... it was like hell.

I was flirting with various people that were kind of acquaintances to us.

Two emotional relationships that I had.

I was cheating on my wife with these people.

The emotional betrayals, those were really hard on me

because love is so important to me.

I did come on to a couple of her friends who didn't reciprocate.

He had pursued somebody that was special to me,

and she just kind of cut herself out of my life.

I lost this very close friend because of you.

Um, it was a lot to face in a moment.

I started reeling inside.

Samuel!

I felt like literally my world was, like, crumbling.

She's pregnant.

Every single aspect of my life up into this point felt like a lie.

- Thank you, sweetie. I love you. - I know.

Everything that we have dreamed about.

All of these very special...

Our wedding day.

The day we met. These moments that felt like...

- Love you. - I love you too.

...time stood still for us.

Suddenly it was just

over.

After the Impact Team released the internal e-mails

from Noel and the company,

then at that point our internal investigation stopped.

So from the company's perspective,

our services was not required anymore.

I was quite disappointed that we didn't really get anywhere

with nailing down a potential suspect.

So we have a limited set of options to work with there.

So we need the police.

The cyber team from Europe,

their focus was the damage control more than anything.

The police investigation was a criminal investigation

because of the extortion that came along.

And as a result of the data bein' released,

people were takin' their lives.

So the Toronto Police Service

took the decision to have a press conference.

I am well aware that the Impact Team hackers

will be takin' an interest in this media conference.

Therefore, I'm going to direct these comments to them.

Team Impact,

I want to make it very clear to you.

Your actions are illegal and we will not be tolerated.

This is your wake-up call.

Got a phone call that morning

from Ashley Madison.

They offered a half a million dollars for a re... a reward.

Today, I can confirm that Avid Life Media is offering a $500,000 reward

to anyone providing information

that leads the identification, arrest, and prosecution of the person or persons

responsible for the leak of the Ashley Madison database.

When you look at most police rewards or rewards that come out,

ya know, they're like 25,000, 50,000.

But when you drop half a million dollars on the table,

that speaks volumes.

Money always talks.

Nothing was known about the Impact Team.

I specialize in speaking to cybercriminals and hackers,

and I've never heard of these guys before.

I don't think any journalists have.

I was determined to try to get ahold of them.

People's lives were literally at risk now.

I wanted to pull back the mask to understand why they're doing this.

There are few ways to get a hacker to speak to you.

You don't just send them a normal e-mail.

You don't ask them for a phone number to call them on a normal cell phone.

They won't do that.

These are people who are wanted by, sometimes, federal law enforcement

from multiple different countries.

I'm on the dark web,

and I'd come across somebody who was speaking in quite specific detail

about the hack and about the Impact Team.

So I reach out to them.

Sure enough, they agree to pass over a message to the Impact Team.

There was every chance they were just gonna tell me to fuck off.

There was such a firestorm around this hack.

Yet nobody had spoken to the Impact Team.

If I could get them to talk to me, it would be huge.

I get an e-mail.

It looks like it's from the Impact Team.

I can't quite believe that this is them.

I think it was clear from the answers that they're sticking to their guns.

"The site is misleading users, we're trying to expose that."

So I started going through the second data dump,

looking at Noel's e-mails,

corporate records.

I wanted to find out

if the Impact Team's claims about fraud was actually true or not.

It became clear security seemed like an afterthought.

Discussions that had a lot more effort put into them

were more about branding, about PR,

about spin.

We had all kinds of medals on our website

which gave the impression that, like, we were rock-solid, airtight.

There is a little gold medallion that said

"trusted security award."

Turned out to have been totally made up.

Somebody at the site must have made it using Photoshop or something like that.

The medals, that's embarrassing.

It's, uh...

Yeah.

It's complete misrepresentation.

It just shows how sloppy Ashley Madison was.

This hacking group says

those customers who paid the fee to have their information deleted

were lied to,

and the company had secretly retained records,

including their credit-card information.

Ashley Madison advertised this extra paid-for feature

where if you gave the company more money,

they promised to completely wipe your account.

There would be no evidence you ever used Ashley Madison.

We would charge 20 bucks to customers

to permanently delete any record of them ever being members of Ashley Madison.

I thought the paid delete, in the beginning, was a great idea.

Well, that brought in a lot of money.

Like a couple million dollars in a very short period of time.

What I didn't know was that we were charging, but we weren't doing it.

There was no paid delete. Nothing was getting deleted.

Full delete not working as advertised.

Yes, malicious and sketchy.

Do I wish I had asked more questions?

Sure.

But it wouldn't even cross my mind to think,

"Oh, are you actually deleting it?"

If you promise users that you delete their information,

you should absolutely do that.

If you charge more money to then delete that information as well,

obviously you should be doing that because it's a paid service.

Ashley Madison were ripping off customers, and so I just kept digging.

And I started to realize a lot more was gonna come out.

After Ashley Madison, my life just went on.

I was just a stripper working in the nightclubs and stuff.

One night I was working at the strip club,

and this guy just pops in with flowers, and he comes up to talk to me.

He was looking at me like he knew me,

like I'm supposed to know him, and I didn't know who he was.

I just thought this guy was a fan,

and he figured out where I worked, and he came in there to meet me.

So the second time it happened, it was, like, maybe a few weeks later.

Okay, this is the second guy that's come up to me.

And he was like he was my boyfriend,

like he was just popping in at work to see me.

Like, what is going on?

Then I asked the guy,

I'm like, "Hey, can you remind me how I know you?"

"Do I know you from the club? How?"

He's like, "Well, we talk on the website." "What are you talking about?"

He's like, "Ashley Madison."

I just looked at him, I'm like, "I'm not on the website."

"I... I don't talk to anybody on there and that's not me."

And just the look of just, like...

It just washed over him, like he was scammed.

"That's really not you I'm talking to."

I'm like, "I swear to you, it's not me."

Then a couple weeks later the third guy came in.

It was just like, "I'm not on Ashley Madison."

"That was not me you're talking to, I am so sorry," and it just all clicks.

Something that was really kind of driven in hard

was that I created a profile on Ashley Madison.

Didn't think anything of it at the time.

I put my picture on there, it's from my e-mail address.

These guys have not only seen my profile on Ashley Madison,

but actually think they're talking to me.

There's somebody pretending they're me on that website.

Is it mostly men looking to have an affair, or do women as well?

Absolutely not. That's why it's called Ashley Madison.

That's why our marketing is geared towards a lot of women,

because you're seeing a change.

You're seeing a changing tide. Women are behaving more and more like men.

The company was always saying,

"We have so many women on our site, our ratio of women to men is amazing."

Infidelity's on the rise for females,

but they don't equal men.

It's still about 40% female, 60% male in most regions.

Did we question how many women were on the site?

I think probably we all could've questioned a bit more

whether some of these claims were too good to be true.

A lot of men may have been exposed at the very least as wannabe cheaters

as a result of the Ashley Madison hack.

What about the women?

It turns out that Ashley Madison's members,

as many people suspected,

were not just overwhelmingly male,

but the women in many cases may simply have not existed.

One of the most compelling pieces of evidence

that these were fake profiles

is that they were all coming from the same IP address,

from the Ashley Madison office.

Either tens of thousands of women were coming to the Ashley Madison office

to look for men to find affairs with,

or somebody in the office was creating these fake profiles.

We knew there were fake profiles on the site.

It wasn't a secret to us.

We were given profiles that were empty, with photos.

We just had to finish filling out their profile content.

We kinda had a sense of what people were looking for and what was...

um, you know, sexually attractive to men.

Who's out there looking at these women?

Men, right?

"I wanna go to this site that's full of all these women

who are eagerly waiting for a guy like me to have an affair with."

"Let me bust out my credit card..." "...and give you all my money."

We are 100% committed to an organic community.

There is no communication, zero,

you'll ever have on Ashley Madison with another member,

that isn't anything other than organic, and by "organic," we mean true and real.

Hundred percent legitimate.

There's a big gap between what Noel would say...

...and, ya know, the things that the site actually did in practice.

Gizmodo's Annalee Newitz dug deeper,

looking at who the men were actually meeting online.

I think most of them were probably either talking to Ashley Madison employees

or just interacting with automated bots on the site

that were sending them automatic mail.

"I'm bored at work. Up for some sexy chat? XO."

The robots, the bots, we knew they were there.

They were there to engage with our male profiles.

When the second data dump came out,

it became clear that Ashley Madison was using fake profiles

to actually communicate with its users.

When some users would message who they thought was a human,

they were actually speaking to bots.

There's a difference between bots and fake profiles.

A bot is also a fake profile,

but it's hooked up to some artificial intelligence,

and the bot would send the first e-mail.

And I was told that is basically

because most of the men that joined the site

are reluctant and shy,

but they will reply to... to a message.

The members don't know that this bot is... is not a real person

or that this bot is busy sending 10,000 messages that day,

and then, ya know, getting 10,000 replies.

Men had to pay money to then read these messages

and engage with these accounts.

I mean, that shows predatory behavior from Ashley Madison.

Not only are you getting people to sign up and misleading them,

you're then charging them for the privilege of being lied to.

The bot profile lines read like a male fantasy

of how you would want the women on the site to talk to you.

Women were the product,

but mostly the fantasy of the idea of women was the product.

An average male user of Ashley Madison

was talking into the void... ...to these fake bots,

racking up hundreds of dollars worth of credit-card bills

and risking his marriage to do it.

It paints a pretty sad picture.

I think during that period of time

after the second release of hacked information,

it was exhausting.

I wanted to get into bed and pull the sheets over my head,

and put on The Golden Girls.

And I remember thinking,

"What else is... Am I gonna find out?"

There was a general meeting for the whole company.

Someone from the board had come in

to let us know that there was gonna be replacements.

And there was.

The board said Noel would no longer be coming back.

Well, I was surprised, 'cause I didn't know.

And that was it. It was quick.

The Impact Team got what they wanted.

They released all the information.

Cost millions.

They cut off Ashley Madison at the knees.

And then you've got the scumbag king of infidelity,

'cause that's what he became,

CEO of Ashley Madison who's completely disgraced.

He was blamed for everything.

I kind of felt for him because he took the fall.

I think that he felt that day that he had hit rock bottom.

Noel leaving, this is completely catastrophic.

At that point, we didn't know if Ashley Madison would survive.

Nobody else knows this business better than him.

Shit, that guy built this company.

We're fucked.

We mutually decided that Sam would stay somewhere else for a period of time.

We just said, "For now."

I needed space.

I just couldn't be in the same room with him.

That was hard,

to... to leave my kids

and to think that that may be my new way of life.

We had to take our daughter to her first day of kindergarten,

and we're both there taking pictures separately,

and being there and seeing

what their lives will look like completely without me.

And that was really hard.

It was all so painful to watch.

Just seeing the destruction of what I'd... I'd chosen to do.

I told him he's just like every man that I was trying to avoid.

Like, what was the point of trying to find a Christian man?

Something that I've had to wrestle with was just that I'm not enough for him.

This relationship, none of it has ever been enough. Like...

And I... I worked so hard to be what I thought he wanted.

I wasn't gonna give up. I was gonna do whatever it took,

and fight tooth and nail for this marriage.

I expressed my remorse

and my regret day after day.

Every single day confessing how much I... I love her.

I wanted it to work so badly.

In order to really even take one tiny, mini baby step forward,

it would require us to... to really sit down

and have some really hard, deep conversations

to find out what was real and what was not real.

But I didn't really wanna fix it.

I did not want to reconcile.

At that point, I felt like it was over.

With the press conference, I thought we were gonna get a lot of calls

and we didn't.

I was totally surprised.

Half a million dollars in someone's pocket would be very nice,

but there was nothing, not even a bite.

Not even a Crime Stoppers tip about it or nothing.

The hackers, well, they call themselves the Impact Team.

I personally think that, uh,

"team" was an exaggeration.

That was probably one person.

Uh, and the reason being for that, 'cause when there was the $500,000 reward.

Usually when you have a team, somebody breaks from the team,

and the money becomes more important.

Haven't heard anything about Impact Team before or since.

It's incredibly unusual for a hacking group to materialize,

do one job, and then disappear.

I can't think of another case where that happened.

The Impact Team was just a creation for this communication.

I think it was never a real team behind that.

There were a lot of clues that

were leading us to believe that it was an insider.

The Impact Team named a number of, ya know, high-ranking executives

in some of the communications they put out.

Ya know, why would they know those people's names

unless they had some sort of personal or work connection?

I don't think anybody ever got particularly close

to figuring out who did it.

The investigation, you know...

Eventually the task force was shut down because there's no new leads.

There was nothin'.

No evidence or any information

received by any law-enforcement group

who was involved in the Ashley Madison hack.

Nobody has identified anyone from the Impact Team.

Speculating about who might've done it

is part of the fun of this story.

It's a giant whodunit.

Everyone on the planet had a motive to take Ashley Madison down.

As of this morning

at least eight people in the US are suing the site,

saying Ashley Madison failed to take, quote,

"Reasonable steps to protect the security of its users."

They actually didn't follow through on what their promises were,

and I'm glad that hopefully some people will get some justice in this case.

After the hack,

disgruntled users of the site did file a class-action lawsuit.

Ashley Madison had to pay users $11 million.

That doesn't remove their data from the Internet.

People killed themselves over this data breach.

I absolutely think the Impact Team is at least partly to blame

for the suicide of anybody who was in that dump.

The Impact Team took a decision to release that information,

and they are responsible

for all of the consequences that come from that,

as well as Ashley Madison.

Everyone was saying this company is done.

Why would anyone ever sign up for the site again?

Its reputation has been, ya know, slammed on every country around the world.

I did not see how it could come back from this.

Eventually, Nia agreed to do marital counseling with me.

So we sit down with my pastor and his wife.

I really wanted to, like, hear somebody, like, lay into him,

and someone to, like, be on my side.

It was very difficult and very emotional,

and she was very honest in those early, uh, meetings.

She said, "I don't know what will happen, if this is repairable."

I think it was very good for him to feel the weight of what he had done...

and feeling the true threat of losing everything he loved most.

He was able to begin really dealing with the depths that he had gone to,

and the dark places that he had traveled.

I started to really think about selfish decisions I made.

Lookin' back, I realized it was all about me.

I'm not thinkin' about Nia.

That was not how I was gonna live anymore.

I was just hoping she would see that this wasn't just a confessional,

that this was a... a repentance.

It was a turnaround, it was a complete change.

Seeing all the responsibility Sam took for everything he had done,

the hours of... of counseling and conversation that he sat through,

no matter how mad I was at what he had done,

I could still see this shift that happened in him.

Yes, the betrayals were out, but so was the real Sam.

Like, "This is me and all my flaws too."

It's heartbreaking to love someone so much,

to the point where, like, you don't know if it's good for you anymore or not,

and you have... I had to sit down and find out.

You look good.

Trust me, babe, we'll get there.

- That's good. - Can see it.

- That's good. - Yeah.

Nia, she decided she would give me a second chance.

Falling deeply in love is beautiful.

But I've learned continuing to be deeply in love takes work.

There's a lot of things I really do regret,

but I don't regret, you know, the hack.

It had to happen for where we're at today.

What Sam did and what we walked through has left a mark.

It's left a permanent mark, but I'm thankful for it.

It's kind of like a starting point for us

on how we'll live the rest of our marriage.

I think

cheating is a natural human way to just find excitement

or find somethin' else

to tolerate the life you have given yourself

without destroying your foundation.

It's just a shame that the couples can't talk to each other about it.

I believe you should be honest with your partner

and obviously be upfront.

If two people wanna have an open marriage

and both want to go outside of marriage for something,

more power to 'em.

But when one person's going behind the other person's back,

sneaking and going on dating apps,

that's definitely gonna cause a problem in the relationship.

What we wanna do in this culture today,

is somebody makes one mistake or says one thing,

and we wanna write them off.

The people who were poring over that list in the Ashley Madison leak,

the witch hunt,

there's just a self-righteousness in that.

But the truth is we all have a list that we're on

that is something that we're not proud of, that is our secret.

People wanna know what's going on in everyone else's sex life.

I think it's that simple.

You wanna know if your neighbor's having an affair,

you wanna know if your favorite celebrity is having an affair,

or you wanna know what politicians are doing in the bedroom.

This whole story is so incredible.

If somebody wrote it as a fictional novel, you'd say it's too incredible to believe.

How do you guys feel about the fact

that Ashley Madison is actually still going?

Oh it is still going? I didn't realize that.

I didn't realize Ashley Madison was still going.

It's an evil on a whole different level, in my opinion.

The hack was 2015.

I left in 2017.

It just became a corporate place to work.

It was not the same and very boring.

It doesn't surprise me that it's still around today.

For me, I don't judge.

I understand that people think,

"I only have one life to live, and I'm happy with my wife,

but I also wanna fuck that 23-year-old."

I get it.

Sometimes I see some hotties and I'd be like, "That would be fun."

But I think your sex is just better

if it's built on something that means something.

Ashley Madison taught me

that there will always be people who cheat.

I always say that as long as men have penises,

Ashley Madison will always be in business.