Original subtitles

this is Taipei capital of Taiwan an

island democracy of 23 million people

but taiwan's International status is

highly contested it is claimed by

Beijing but it's never been part of the

People's Republic of China instead over

the last 20 years Taiwan has evolved

into a thriving democracy and in 2016

people here chose their first female

president tyuan she rejects China's

claims to Taiwan and has moved the

island further towards Japan and the

United States when I sat down with

President Thai at her home in Taipei I

began on that delicate topic the threat

from China and whether it's increased

under the leadership of xiin ping do you

fear xiin ping do you think the world

the the Democratic World should fear

xiin ping and his

Ambitions I think xiin ping now despite

the fact that he may have a plan of some

sort but I don't think that is a

definitive plan because you know the

world is changing the situation in China

is changing but the world is very

different now especially after Ukrainian

War because um uh the Democracy seem to

be able to get together to form a

meaningful deterrence orever there is uh

Invasion

contemplated so if we deal with the

matter very carefully there's still a

great possibility for us to maintain

peace as we all

need Tai's predecessor president Mingo

had tried to negotiate with China even

holding a meeting with President Xi

Jinping in

Singapore Tai's strategy has been

completely

different instead of trying to

conciliate China she's built up taiwan's

own

defenses nearly doubling spending buying

new fighter jets and developing one's

first indigenous

[Music]

submarines today the lion dance is to

celebrate the opening of a new special

forces training base on the outskirts of

Taipei another tangible example of where

this new military spending is

going so I guess for president's side

this is a sort of demonstration of what

she's been trying to achieve uh in

defense policy over the last eight years

because you know part of her big thing

is that Taiwan doesn't spend enough on

defense when she came in it was about 2%

of GDP she's managed to push that up to

about 2 and a half% of GDP a lot of

people say Taiwan needs to be spending

north of 3% of its GDP to have an

effective military given the huge threat

that it faces from China one of the

things you've done very differently from

your

predecessor he engaged in dialogue with

China he he was trying to get Taiwan

into a basically an economic partnership

with China you when you came to power

decided on a very different course itri

me one

of firstly building up taiwan's own

military strength I would say that we

are uh the military capability of ours

is much strengthened uh with uh the

Investments uh that we have put in in

the last eight years and also with the

assistance of our friends um uh

primarily from the United States um so

and the investment that we have put into

to uh the military capacity building is

uh

unprecedented another major reform she's

pushed through is a return to one year

of compulsory military service she

concedes it's not one her many

supporters among young

voters I was actually able to convince

the public here that uh extension of the

mandatory uh military service is

something that we need to do and I get

the support of the people here and and

also the young people uh despite they

have some complaint but it's not about

their love for the uh

country president sai's political

opponents call her military strategy

naive even dangerous they point to the

vastly superior military forces China

now has at its disposal and they say

trying to defeat these with with

taiwan's much smaller forces is a Fool's

errand China's military is vast its

military modernization is extraordinary

and that in the end Tai this is what

your critics would say is Taiwan cannot

Hope by itself to deter China militarily

of course that make uh some sense but

the cost of taking over Taiwan is going

to be enormous and and Chinese

leadership have to make a good

calculation as to whether they are

prepared to pay the cost but what we

need to do is to increase the cost of an

invasion strengthening of military

capability is one and working with our

friends in a region to form a collective

deterrence is another I suppose again

just Playing devil's advocate here your

critics would say well that's all very

well but Taiwan has very few formal

diplomatic allies it doesn't have any

formal military

alliances um and that during the last

eight years particularly the last four

years the situation around Taiwan has

actually become objectively more

threatening of course we cannot uh

exclude uh um any possibility at the

moment including a possible military

conflict and in Invasion From China but

the thing is with the collective efforts

of of the parties uh concern and in the

region China actually feel the pressure

because it's not only military is a

concern they have to

be aware of the fact that a war May cost

of their Economic

Development and the The Economic

Consequences is such that it may

probably delay the development of China

for years years even for

decades so if you are a leader of China

what is more important taking over

Taiwan or you are continuing growth

economically and socially absolutely

crucial to Tai's strategy of deterring

China is support from America for

decades the United States has kept China

guessing as to whether they would or

would not defend Taiwan if Beijing

attacked but following the Russian

invasion of Ukraine President Joe Biden

has broken with that tradition saying

repeatedly he would send US troops to

defend Taiwan are you willing to get

involved militarily to defend Taiwan if

it comes to that yes you

are that's the commitment we made

President Biden has been extremely

supportive of Taiwan when asked about

whether he would intervene if Taiwan

were attacked he has repeatedly said yes

um his critics have have said that that

is moving America too far away from this

idea of strategic ambiguity and that

actually that that makes the situation

with Tai for Taiwan more dangerous I

think the ambiguity is still

there um um I think um the US

Administration has been very careful in

um delivering the messages uh they want

to deliver to um the public so um as far

as I'm concerned the way I read it is

that the ambiguity is still there how

important is Victory on the on the on

the battlefield for Ukraine and

continued Western support for Ukraine in

terms of how it affects Taiwan many

people suggest that Taiwan is a much

important case than Ukraine and there

are arguments that perhaps uh the US

should uh um shift uh there support uh

and resources from Ukraine to Taiwan we

say no you have to support Ukraine until

the very end president Sai is a famous

dog and cat lover she takes me to meet

her four dogs and two cats she is a

retired resue dog uh she's now 12 years

old the president is also something of

an angile having spent the early 1980s

studying for a PhD in law at the London

School of Economics just when Britain

had elected its first female prime

minister Margaret Thatcher I looked at

the dates in the UK you did your PhD in

1984 it was the Thatcher era and and I

just wonder did did did you register

that when you were in the UK that this

was Britain's first female prime

minister and that she I mean even if you

didn't like her she is a very determined

lady um I have a lot admiration for her

despite that that I may not be in

agreement with all her policies but as a

leader she's a tough

one one thing that comes across very

clearly from spending time with

President Sai is that in spite of it

looking very much like China with a

similar language customs and religious

beliefs she sees Taiwan as a different

separate place with its own unique

history it was first colonized U by the

Dutch the Spanish and later the Japanese

and and and Chinese so it's all left the

Legacy here that makes it very different

yes so we we have very diverse culture

here this is still a very patriarchal

society you I know have appointed many

women to high positions in government

you appointed the first transgender

cabinet minister in taiwan's history

maybe in Asia's history I'm not sure do

you think there's an enduring Legacy

there that will last or is there a

danger Taiwan could revert to what I

might call the boys club once you're

gone I have a lot of judgment about that

voice club that you use people thought

I'm some uh um unusual happening in

Taiwan but I want to say that the Taiwan

uh society and democracy nowadays are

mature enough to produce and assess a

woman president and that is a tremendous

achievement of the Taiwan Society in

2019 despite resistance from

conservative religious and family groups

her government pushed through

legislation making Taiwan the first

place in Asia to legalize same-sex

marriage you were well ahead of any any

other country in Asia in in in pushing

through that legislation why was that s

such an important priority for you

because that's the hope of the younger

generation because that is a way to

express ourself as an a more advanced uh

uh country in terms of the progressive

values and also we have very active

Advocates uh for the same-sex marriage

here so um and it's a test to the

society here to see to what extent they

can move forward with their values it it

was a very difficult uh journey I am

actually rather proud proud uh that we

managed to overcome our differences and

get together and and produce a package

that we can all live with and eventually

we are all proud of

it in a few days from now president Tha

will hand over to her successor taiwan's

current vice president William lie he

has promised to continue her Legacy of

protecting taiwan's status quo most

people here in Taiwan when you look at

surveys and you ask them they say we

want to maintain the status

quo no unification no Independence

status quo what does the status quo mean

for you I think all the people agree on

this thing that we are on our own we

make our own decision we have a

political system to govern the place and

we have Constitution we have laws uh

regulating um um the the society uh as a

whole so you know and we have our

military so we have all the elements of

a

state and it's just that we don't have

enough number of diplomatic

recognitions China of course will say

that we're part of them so um it's for

the people uh to interpret what uh

Taiwan represents at this moment in time

but the most important important thing

is that we are on our own and we are a

democracy and we enjoy freedom and

democracy and Progressive values and we

are a group of people that are very

proud of ourselves