Original subtitles

What was your occupation back in the year 2000?

Robert Durst : Jeanne?

Jeanne Clarke : Yes, hello, Bob.

Durst: Long time, no speaky.

Clarke: Yes, I know. What's going on?

Durst: You know my whole big trial thing and everything

is gonna be about my handwriting.

The HBO thing, the fifth episode,

has writing a, a note

spelling "Beverly" B-E-V-E-R-L-E-Y.

Did you see that?

Clarke: I saw it on TV.

Durst: Do you ever remember me writing anything to you?

Clarke: Yes. I think you did send me something once.

Durst: So, do you remember me writing "Beverly"

the right way or the wrong way?

Clarke: I don't know.

Debrah Lee Charatan Hey.

Durst : Hi, Debbie.

I do remember writing you a couple of things,

for a birthday gift or a Christmas gift.

Charatan: Yes, I have that stuff.

Durst: Well, if you have anything I wrote where I write "Beverly"

the right way, that would be tremendous.

Charatan: Okay, I will look,

but it's in New York, and I'm in the Hamptons.

But, I will look.

Charles Bagli: Back in 2010,

in his very first interview with the filmmakers,

Bob says very flatly

that whoever wrote that note had to be the killer.

You're writing a note to the police

that only the killer could've written.

Bagli: Then, when Lewin interviewed Bob

after his arrest in New Orleans,

Bob said the same thing.

Bagli: It was, in a sense,

a challenge to the prosecution.

"If you can prove

"that Bob was the author of the Cadaver Note,

you're locking down that he is the killer."

♪ Well, you just think that I'm ♪

♪ Some great survivor ♪

♪ And you just build upon ♪

♪ The light to carry you ♪

♪ Well, I don't even talk that way ♪

♪ See, I wanted you to stay ♪

♪ And show you the world's a better place ♪

♪ And as we crawl to find our way ♪

♪ We even take the shape of something else ♪

- ♪ You think that I'm just ♪ - (gunshot)

♪ Some great survivor ♪

♪ You think that I'm just ♪

♪ Some great survivor ♪

♪ I'm afraid that the weight of the world ♪

♪ Is catching up with you ♪

Stewart Altman : Bob.

Durst : Hi, Stewart. How are you?

Stewart Altman: I'm okay. I'm okay.

Durst: I'm okay okay, too.

Stewart Altman: Good.

Durst: Do you think you'll be able to come here?

Stewart Altman: Yes. Yes. We'll work something out.

Durst: Okay.

Dick DeGuerin: Nyle Brenner was Susan's manager of sorts,

and they had a contentious relationship.

And, in fact, in the early days of the investigation

he was their primary suspect. Bob was not.

Investigator: So, you struck up a friendship, and...

You're in what type of business?

Brenner: Well, I'm in the entertainment business,

so I primarily represent actors,

but begun to work with a few writers,

and Susan was one of the few writers that I,

that I worked with.

Susan wasn't selling a lot,

and so the relationship kinda morphed,

where he was kind of her, like, errand boy.

Investigator: Would you say that you're the closest person to her actually?

Brenner: I pro... I mean, in some ways, I would probably...

I mean, I'd be one of the closest people to her.

Bagli: She was a high-maintenance client.

I think he lent her money as much as he earned her money.

And so one of the motives

that police initially investigated

was maybe he got sick of it.

Investigator: Did she have any problems with anyone?

Brenner: Well, I mean, Susan had problems with everybody, but

investigator: Serious problems.

Brenner: I mean, you know, she pushed. She pushed people.

You know, she pushed people to the edge.

She's getting on his nerves. Maybe he snaps.

Brenner: It's like I need breathers from this woman.

It sometimes was very difficult to be with her.

He had also drawn the attention of police

when he crawled through a window

to get into Susan's house

while it was strung up as a crime scene.

Brenner: I've been back to the house a couple of times,

and there's no appearance of, of anything.

Investigator: How'd you get in the house again?

Brenner: There, there was a kitchen window

that's easy to, uh, to open up.

The guy broke into the house.

I mean, you know, it was... we had a lot to work with.

Investigator: Did anything look disturbed to you?

Brenner: I mean, obviously the police were there the day before,

so I don't know how they found the place and how it was left.

Nyle Brenner failed a polygraph test.

There-There was just all kinds of stuff that pointed to him.

And then, they later look at the book

where he signed in to be interviewed.

He had written his name in block letters,

just like the Cadaver Note.

And it went to the LAPD handwriting expert.

And the original analyst looks at it

and finds that it's "highly probable"

that Nyle wrote the letter.

So, when I get the case,

I realize this is a big problem.

David Belcher: Arguably, Nyle Brenner, the handwriting match,

that alone could be reasonable doubt.

Because, again, everyone agrees that only the killer

could've written the Cadaver Note.

And so, if there's a doubt in the jury's mind

that maybe Nyle Brenner wrote it,

like the LAPD initially found,

that could be the case right there.

Bagli: The other challenge to proving

Bob is the author of the Cadaver Note

was establishing he was in Los Angeles

at the time of Susan's death.

LAPD knew

that Bob had flown into San Francisco

but there was absolutely no evidence

Bob was in Los Angeles.

It's been 20 years,

and there've been dozens of interviews

and police interviews and media interviews,

and no one in 20 years has put Robert Durst

in Los Angeles at the time of Susan Berman's murder.

But they were able to put you in California.

California's a big state.

Ethan Milius: California is a massive state.

And if you have Durst in northern California,

generally speaking, that's not very close.

I think everybody who's ever been associated with this case,

whether you're making a documentary or investigating,

LAPD, or the DA's office,

if you can put Durst in LA,

you've got exponentially better case.

But we couldn't. Nobody could.

Bagli: It was a real hurdle for the prosecution.

Because if they couldn't say

that Bob was definitely in Los Angeles,

their whole case goes up in smoke.

Lewin: So, what is the best way

that we can put Bob in Los Angeles?

And the best thing we're probably gonna get

is that Bob is gonna have told somebody

he was there at the time of Susan's killing.

interviewer: Are you the wife of Robert Durst?

Yes.

Interviewer: In the fall of 2000,

before you married Mr. Durst,

had you heard reports that the Westchester district attorney

was investigating the disappearance

of Mr. Durst's first wife?

Yes.

Interviewer: Did you discuss the reopening of the investigation

with Mr. Durst before you were married?

- Charatan: Yes. - Interviewer: What did he tell you about that?

I guess that what he told me was

that he was scared.

Interviewer: When did you marry him?

December 2000.

Interviewer: Uh, would that have been December 11, 2000?

- Yes. - Interviewer: Okay. Where did you marry him?

- In New York. - Interviewer: Where in New York?

At Broadway and 43rd Street, 44th Street.

Interviewer: Uh, was that in somebody's office?

- Yes. - Interviewer: Whose office?

I don't know.

Interviewer: How did you select the site of the wedding?

The rabbi selected it.

Interviewer: Uh, besides you, Mr. Durst,

who else was present at the wedding ceremony?

The rabbi.

interviewer: Why did you decide to get married to Mr. Durst?

Because he asked.

Interviewer: And when he asked you, did he tell you

why he wanted you to marry him?

No.

Interviewer: You understood it would be easier for you

to take care of his affairs if you were married, correct?

Charatan: Yes.

Interviewer: Am I correct that right after the marriage,

Mr. Durst went to California?

I wouldn't know.

interviewer: Did you know Susan Berman?

- Yes. - Interviewer: How did you know her?

She was Bob's friend.

interviewer: Did you learn around Christmas of 2000

that Ms. Berman had been killed?

- Yes. - Interviewer: How did you learn that?

Charatan: I was driving in a taxicab

on my way home to the city,

to the apartment, and I heard it on the radio.

Newscaster : Neighbors of Berman's first noticed

her dogs running loose on December 23rd.

The next day, they called 911

when they saw her door was open.

Police say Susan Berman died of a gunshot wound to the head.

They say there was nothing taken from her house.

Interviewer: Did you have any understanding at the time

that Ms. Berman was going to be questioned

by the Westchester District Attorney's Office?

I did eventually understand that,

but I cannot tell you when I understood that.

Interviewer: When did you find that out?

That's what I just said. I really don't know.

Interviewer: Do you recall learning

that he had stayed at hotels in California?

So, I shouldn't answer?

interviewer: Are you following your counsel's instruction?

Wouldn't you?

Hon. Susan Criss: I think it's more than convenient

that the person who could contradict his testimony

became his spouse and unable to testify.

I think that's why he got married to her,

to take advantage of that privilege.

Lewin: I very much wanted to speak to Debbie.

And in the end,

she and her lawyer did not agree to it.

So if I can't talk to Debbie,

I need to find someone else

who might know that Bob was in Los Angeles.

Balian: I think John, as we all did,

suspected that given how close

Bob Durst was to the Altmans

and how tight they were, that if he would have said something

to someone, it would have been one of those two.

Michael Belcher: Stewart Altman is Bob's,

or was pretending to be, Bob's attorney.

And sometimes, he actually was Bob's attorney.

But, he wasn't like a criminal defense attorney.

It was kinda like Bob has

a multi-billion-dollar real estate empire,

and he's kinda like tossing his, you know,

small-town New York attorney friend

a little bit of business.

Bagli: Stewart was Bob's only lifelong friend.

It was the two of them in high school

and over the years,

the Altmans stayed in Bob's corner.

When called upon to vouch for Bob,

they did it so in a very public way.

newscaster : You'll never get Bob Durst's old friends,

the Altmans, to believe Durst is capable of murder.

Stewart has been Durst's friend

and sometime legal advisor for 40 years.

Stewart Altman: He's just a regular guy

who happens to have a lot of money,

and I don't see why people should hold that against him.

Bob didn't kill anybody.

You know, he has a heart.

Stewart Altman: He has a good heart inside. I really think so.

He's not a monster. He's not a horrible person.

DeGuerin: Stewart was Bob's counselor,

as lawyers can be,

for almost all their relationship.

I believed that practically everything that happened

between them and Emily

should be protected by the attorney-client privilege.

Michael Belcher: Emily Altman is the wife

of Bob Durst's friend Stewart Altman.

And so, I guess in Stewart Altman's law practice,

Emily would kinda come in once a week to do the books.

Emily Altman : Hi, Bob.

Durst : They are very used to me

having a visit with my wife.

They are not at all used to me

having a visit with the attorney's wife.

We could tell 'em we're almost family.

Windham: The attorney-client privilege

shields communications

not just between the lawyer and the client,

but the lawyer's staff and the client.

Durst: Emily?

Emily Altman: How are you feeling?

Well, I'm feeling the usual way I feel in jail.

Windham: And it's important for the judge to protect

those privileged conversations.

Okay, now, stand up and walk back

as far as you can go so I can see all of you.

You can't keep... Just let the phone hang.

Okay.

Oh, you look good.

- You look sexy. - Okay?

Does Stewart know that you look sexy?

Emily Altman: No, but thank you.

We've been married too long for that.

You know that.

- Gosh. - That's funny.

And so, there was a very complicated legal issue of,

well, was Emily Altman

acting as Bob's attorney or staff of Bob's attorney...

Or was... she was part of the defense team?

And so, if she was, right, then we can't talk to her

'cause it's privileged at that time.

No way we're getting her on the stand.

Durst: I could see this going through their minds.

"What is this thing with the defend

with the lawyer's wife?"

'Cause we're friends. That's why.

Forty-something years, Bob.

Durst: "How did he make friends with the lawyer's wife?

What did he do?"

Emily Altman: We don't... We'll never tell, right?

I'll never tell.

Bob and his lawyers fought extremely hard

to keep Emily and Stewart from having to testify.

And so, we had to put together, basically, a motion to say,

"Emily Altman and Stewart Altman

"aren't part of Bob's legal defense team.

They're personal friends."

So, we went through and listened to jail calls.

We wanted to get a better sense

of what exactly they were talking about.

I mean, were they really talking about legal strategy?

Durst : What's on TV tonight? Anything good?

Stewart Altman : No.

Durst: Do you have a TV Guide in front of you?

You know what, the hell with it.

Stewart Altman: Yeah, I got a TV Guide. Hold on, I'll read it to you.

Okay.

8:00 on channel 2, "Survivor."

9:00, "CSI," which is "Crime Scene Investigations."

- Durst: I like that. - Stewart Altman: I do, too.

- 10:00, "The Agency," so that's CIA... - Durst: I like that too.

Stewart Altman: Okay. On channel 4,

8:00, "Friends," "Will & Grace,"

- and "Just Shoot Me." - Durst: Hate it.

- Stewart Altman: Channel 5, forget it. - Durst: Yeah?

You don't like it, I don't like it. Seven?

Stewart Altman: Seven, "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"

and "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?"

- Durst: Hate it. - Stewart Altman: Okay.

- Durst: TBS. - Stewart Altman: Hold on.

David Belcher: They never had any conversations

about Bob's legal issues. It never happened.

Durst: Okay. Now, A&E.

Stewart Altman: Sean Connery in "The Rock."

Andrew Jarecki: Did you ever hear any of those calls?

- Or did you get access? - I h

listened to some phone calls

in order to determine whether or not the content

amounted to privileged material.

It was not a professional context.

It was a casual conversation.

Durst: ♪ Happy birthday to Stewart ♪

- ♪ Happy birthday to Stewart ♪ - Stewart Altman: (laughs) Thank you, Bobby.

- It's nice to hear from you. - Durst: Bye-bye.

Windham: And this is the context in which I made the decision.

Finally, we won the motion. And so, the judge ruled, okay,

we can examine them.

Reporter: The interesting thing that's going on right now

is that this judge has ordered an attorney and his wife,

from New York, to head to Los Angeles and testify.

He and Durst apparently have been friends since high school.

Robert Durst doesn't have many friends in the world,

but this is one of

- guest: At least ones that are alive. - Reporter: That's true, too.

Uh...

Lewin: Stewart was very difficult,

and he, in essence, pretended

to have no information about anything.

Michael Belcher: Stewart Altman is not gonna lay out his friend.

But Emily Altman was kind of a wild card.

And so, we felt like,

"Well, maybe we can get something from her."

Lewin: It became clear to me,

after seeing how hard the defense

was fighting to keep privilege

that Emily must know

something very, very damaging.

I was very confident. But I didn't know what it was.

Lewin: Now, I knew Bob,

and I knew that it would be

very surprising to me

that Bob would've ever told Emily or Stewart,

"I killed Kathie," or, "I killed Susan."

That's just not him.

So what I figured it was going to be was

Bob saying that he had been

in Los Angeles or Beverly Hills at the time.

Now, that was a guess.

I asked her, in essence,

"Isn't it true that Bob Durst told you

that he was in Los Angeles at the time of the murder?"

And her response to that question was...

Lewin: And I'm listening to that answer,

and it's like the world slows down.

I have time to say to myself,

"Oh, my God.

She just gave it to me."

Because if she didn't know anything about Bob being in LA,

instead of saying, "I wish I could remember,"

Emily would have simply answered, "No."

And so, I kept pushing and pushing and pushing.

Ma'am, let me ask you another question as you're pondering.

When I ask the questions that I'm asking,

as you're sitting there, are you considering at all,

"Is my answer going to hurt Mr. Durst?"

What I'm considering is trying

to be accurate and not screwing up.

And I don't remember everything that you're asking me

when you're asking me, or a timeline

that you're asking me to remember.

I can't do it,

and you're putting me under a lot of pressure

to remember things and dates that I simply don't.

Lewin: So I'm gonna ask my question again, ma'am,

'cause you didn't answer.

Bagli: You could see how this is so stressful for her.

And Lewin was relentless.

I mean, it was like a tank rolling down the street

on a pedestrian.

There was no stopping it.

Milius: When Lewin does his examination,

I'm usually sitting next to him.

And I'm looking at the plan, and I'm like,

"The plan accounts for... Maybe I wasn't in the right meeting

and we knew this because..." And I'm looking around at Habib

and everyone in the courtroom like,

"This is fuck... This is crazy."

D-Did she just say that Bob said he was in Los Angeles?

The electricity in that room,

- I still get chills thinking about it... - Yeah!

Balian: And then John, of course,

proceeded to just pepper her

with question after question, and it just kept getting

worse and worse for Robert Durst.

David Belcher: She said it.

She, she put Bob in LA for the first time.

Lewin: Emily Altman slipped up and admitted

that Bob told her

he was in Los Angeles

at the Beverly Hilton

at the time of Susan's murder.

Lewin: The defense was shell-shocked.

DeGuerin: Emily said Bob was in.

Los Angeles. She had no way of knowing that.

There were no records of that.

We tried to find the records

and I can guarantee you that the prosecution tried

to find the records, too.

I think that she felt bullied by Lewin and

said anything that came to her mind.

I think she just made it up.

Michael Belcher: Hearing Bob impersonate Emily Altman,

uh, crying about putting him in Los Angeles was just

what a treat. I mean, that was really...

It was like the icing on the cake.

I think he knew, "I'm in trouble now."

Lewin: All that I can suggest

is that I don't think the defense prepared her.

As a defense, you would sit down with Emily Altman

and go through everything that she might say.

They should've known everything in advance.

I didn't see that at all.

So, Emily Altman broke this case open.

That's what caused them to have to do

everything they did after that.

- speaker 1 : Hello? - Speaker 2 : Hello?

Jarecki: Yeah.

Newscaster 1: It seems Bob Durst and his team

have done the unthinkable.

Newscaster 2: His defense team stipulated to Durst

being the one that wrote the Cadaver Note.

For years, he denied doing so,

even when he was caught on "The Jinx" documentary series

misspelling the word "Beverly."

According to John Lewin,

the testimony of one of his former best friends,

Emily Altman, was ultimately what broke the camel's back.

Lewin: Because of Emily Altman,

the defense ended up

believing that they had to now agree

that Bob was in Los Angeles and wrote the note.

Bagli: For 19 years,

Bob had said, "Hey, I wasn't even in Los Angeles!

"Susan was my best friend!

This has nothing to do with me."

That's what he told the jury in Galveston in 2003.

That's what he told "The Jinx."

This was a complete reversal.

Lewin: Once they stipulated that Bob wrote the Cadaver Note,

that means they're saying Bob was in Susan's house

and Bob found the body.

One of the things one of the jurors said

after the Galveston case was that,

"Bob Durst must be one of the unluckiest people

on the face of the earth."

He certainly has had a string of bad luck.

There was a decision, however, here,

to say to the jury,

"We got a new one for you.

He also walked in on that friend who was murdered."

That was a risk.

It's what Bob said happened.

But there had been a lot of discussion before that.

Nyle Brenner wrote the note...

And then, all that went away

because now you had Bob admitting.

But, my suspicion is that not everybody agreed

on the defense team that you'd let Bob

admit to writing the note.

Well, you know, I'm not gonna talk about

the, the discussions that we as lawyers had.

Um, if you're asking me

were there times when we disagreed with each other,

of course, there were.

Balian: Once Robert Durst stipulated

that he wrote the Cadaver Note,

the defense had the strategic decision to make

whether Bob Durst is gonna testify.

It's difficult for me to say what I would have done,

but someone had to get up there

and explain how it is

that he came to write this note.

David Chesnoff: Bob made up his mind

that he was going to tell the jury his story.

And when I say "story," I don't mean like a made-up story.

He was gonna give his version of events.

It's a truism that all juries

want to hear from the accused.

It can be risky, of course.

But, it is the defendant's choice.

♪ Oh, I... wanna testify... ♪

♪ Mm, yeah ♪

♪ Ooh, uh-huh ♪

♪ Love just walked in on me ♪

♪ I wanna testify ♪

♪ And took me by surprise ♪

♪ I wanna testify ♪

♪ Happiness surrounds me ♪

♪ I wanna testify ♪

♪ You can see it in my eyes ♪

♪ Now, it was just a little while ago ♪

♪ That my life was incomplete ♪

♪ I wanna testify ♪

♪ I was down so doggone low ♪

♪ I had to look up at my feet ♪

♪ Don't you know ♪

♪ I wanna testify ♪

♪ What your love has done for me ♪

♪ I just wanna testify ♪

♪ Oh, what your love has done for me ♪

♪ Yeah ♪

♪ Sure been delicious to me ♪

♪ Hm, baby ♪

♪ You sure been delicious to me, yeah ♪

♪ Once, I was a hollow man ♪

♪ In which a lonely heart did well ♪

♪ Then, love came sneaking upon me ♪

♪ Bringing hope to an empty shell ♪

♪ Now, I've heard so many times before ♪

♪ That your love can't be so bad ♪

♪ But, I just want to tell all you people ♪

♪ It's the best love I ever had ♪

♪ Talkin' 'bout ♪

♪ I just wanna testify ♪

♪ What your love has done for me ♪

♪ Everybody sing ♪

♪ I just wanna testify ♪

♪ What your love has done for me ♪

♪ Uh, I just wanna testify ♪

♪ What your love has done for me, yeah ♪

♪ I just wanna testify ♪

♪ What your, what your love has done for me ♪

♪ I wanna testify... ♪