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1
00:00:46,267 --> 00:00:49,226
What time is the Minister
recording this broadcast?
2
00:00:49,387 --> 00:00:50,820
Two p.m., Sir Humphrey.
3
00:00:50,987 --> 00:00:53,979
Can't you stop him referring
to the Solihull project?
4
00:00:54,147 --> 00:00:56,058
- There's not a hope.
- Oh, God.
5
00:00:56,227 --> 00:00:58,866
"It's a shining example
of collaboration
6
00:00:59,027 --> 00:01:01,177
between government
and industry".
7
00:01:01,347 --> 00:01:04,305
- How could he think that?
- You told him it was.
8
00:01:05,987 --> 00:01:07,739
Can a 74 million
building project
9
00:01:07,907 --> 00:01:10,979
in the middle of a city,
be swept under the carpet?
10
00:01:11,307 --> 00:01:14,982
- We'll use the Official Secrets
- A secret? It's so huge.
11
00:01:15,147 --> 00:01:17,342
It's a big secret, Bernard.
12
00:01:17,507 --> 00:01:19,941
But you can't use
the Official Secrets Act
13
00:01:20,107 --> 00:01:22,177
with something
everybody knows about?
14
00:01:22,467 --> 00:01:27,336
The Official Secrets Act is not
to protect secrets, but officials.
15
00:01:28,907 --> 00:01:31,137
Why haven't you allowed me
to show
16
00:01:31,307 --> 00:01:34,982
the Solihull Report to the
Minister, tell him the truth?
17
00:01:35,427 --> 00:01:36,780
He hasn't asked.
18
00:01:36,947 --> 00:01:39,939
Why bother a Minister
if he doesn't want to know?
19
00:01:40,107 --> 00:01:42,462
But how could he ask
if he doesn't know?
20
00:01:42,707 --> 00:01:44,060
Quite so.
21
00:01:44,227 --> 00:01:47,424
It's not that I'm questioning
your judgment but...
22
00:01:47,587 --> 00:01:49,305
- But?
- But why?
23
00:01:49,627 --> 00:01:52,699
Because, Bernard,
the Solihull Report contained
24
00:01:52,867 --> 00:01:56,303
a paragraph casting doubt
on the financial soundness
25
00:01:56,467 --> 00:01:59,664
of Michael Bradley
and Sloane Enterprises Ltd.
26
00:01:59,827 --> 00:02:03,581
And the report's foresight had some
insight in the light of hindsight?
27
00:02:03,867 --> 00:02:04,936
What?
28
00:02:05,187 --> 00:02:07,906
If it said that Michael Bradley
was going to go bust?
29
00:02:08,067 --> 00:02:10,058
Please, Bernard,
watch your language.
30
00:02:10,627 --> 00:02:14,381
The point is that, by the time
the Report came out, I was so...
31
00:02:14,547 --> 00:02:17,778
or rather the Department
was so committed to Bradley
32
00:02:17,947 --> 00:02:21,576
that it seemed worth taking
the risk to see the project through.
33
00:02:21,747 --> 00:02:24,739
If the Minister knows
this partner was going bust,
34
00:02:24,907 --> 00:02:27,467
he wouldn't make
a broadcast about it.
35
00:02:27,667 --> 00:02:31,865
Ministers should never know
more than they need to know.
36
00:02:32,107 --> 00:02:33,586
Then they can't tell anyone.
37
00:02:35,187 --> 00:02:36,905
Like secret agents.
38
00:02:37,267 --> 00:02:38,859
They could be captured
and tortured.
39
00:02:39,027 --> 00:02:40,380
By terrorists?
40
00:02:40,547 --> 00:02:42,458
By the BBC, Bernard.
41
00:02:43,307 --> 00:02:46,902
The bank doesn't know
whether or not to foreclose.
42
00:02:47,067 --> 00:02:50,343
I'll dine with Sir Desmond
Glazebrook, their Chairman.
43
00:02:50,547 --> 00:02:52,299
We might manage
to cook something up.
44
00:02:52,467 --> 00:02:54,139
Why don't you go
to a restaurant?
45
00:02:56,027 --> 00:02:58,336
Anyway, in the meantime,
come what may,
46
00:02:58,507 --> 00:03:02,341
the Minister must not refer
to the Solihull Project on the air.
47
00:03:02,507 --> 00:03:05,943
Sir Humphrey,
this is a bit of a coverup, isn't it?
48
00:03:06,187 --> 00:03:07,256
Certainly not.
49
00:03:07,427 --> 00:03:11,022
It is responsible discretion
exercised in the national interest
50
00:03:11,187 --> 00:03:15,339
to prevent unnecessary disclosure
of eminently justifiable procedures
51
00:03:15,507 --> 00:03:19,705
in which untimely revelation could
severely impair public confidence.
52
00:03:19,867 --> 00:03:21,698
Oh, I see.
It's like Watergate?
53
00:03:21,867 --> 00:03:22,867
Bernard!
54
00:03:24,707 --> 00:03:28,177
If you wish to leave the Service
and become a BBC interviewer,
55
00:03:28,347 --> 00:03:31,066
- you have only to apply.
- I'm sorry, but...
56
00:03:31,227 --> 00:03:33,183
How was Watergate
different exactly?
57
00:03:33,347 --> 00:03:36,020
Watergate happened
in America, Bernard!
58
00:03:36,827 --> 00:03:38,624
Oh yes, yes. I see.
59
00:03:39,987 --> 00:03:42,137
- Good morning, Minister.
- Good morning.
60
00:03:42,307 --> 00:03:44,104
Morning, Bernard.
Sorry I'm late.
61
00:03:44,267 --> 00:03:46,144
Put them on the desk, George.
62
00:03:46,307 --> 00:03:49,583
I don't want to be late
at Broadcasting House.
63
00:03:49,747 --> 00:03:52,864
What's the broadcast all about?
NATO, wasn't it?
64
00:03:53,027 --> 00:03:54,938
No, partnerships in industry.
65
00:03:55,427 --> 00:03:58,260
Oh, yes. I knew
it was something like that.
66
00:03:58,787 --> 00:04:00,937
- Who else is in it?
- It's all in there.
67
00:04:01,107 --> 00:04:03,302
An Employer
and a Trades Unionist.
68
00:04:03,747 --> 00:04:05,146
Joe Morgan?
69
00:04:05,307 --> 00:04:08,219
Wasn't he the TUC representative
on the Solihull project?
70
00:04:08,387 --> 00:04:09,536
Er, Minister...
71
00:04:10,587 --> 00:04:11,736
Yes, Humphrey?
72
00:04:11,907 --> 00:04:15,536
You are not proposing to refer
to the Solihull project on the air?
73
00:04:15,707 --> 00:04:18,175
Yes. It's a shining example
of cooperation
74
00:04:18,347 --> 00:04:20,303
between the Government
and industry.
75
00:04:20,467 --> 00:04:23,265
But I would be much happier
if it were omitted.
76
00:04:23,427 --> 00:04:24,427
Why?
77
00:04:24,587 --> 00:04:27,147
Don't you think
it's rather premature?
78
00:04:27,307 --> 00:04:29,867
Certainly not.
Building started months ago.
79
00:04:30,267 --> 00:04:33,145
Exactly.
Rather out of date, in fact.
80
00:04:33,307 --> 00:04:35,218
Premature and out of date?
81
00:04:35,387 --> 00:04:37,218
Well, untimely.
82
00:04:37,387 --> 00:04:40,140
Would it be uninteresting
to the general public?
83
00:04:40,307 --> 00:04:42,298
No. It's something
that's going on.
84
00:04:42,467 --> 00:04:44,503
- Extremely interesting.
- Yes. Quite so.
85
00:04:44,667 --> 00:04:46,658
So interesting
that there is a danger
86
00:04:46,827 --> 00:04:49,705
that it might obscure
your main point, perhaps.
87
00:04:49,987 --> 00:04:51,545
What is my main point?
88
00:04:53,107 --> 00:04:55,541
Bernard, what's the Minister's
main point?
89
00:04:55,747 --> 00:04:59,262
Private projects are more socially
responsible with government money,
90
00:04:59,427 --> 00:05:02,624
and government projects are more
efficient with private investment.
91
00:05:02,787 --> 00:05:05,062
You see?
It underlines my main point.
92
00:05:05,227 --> 00:05:07,024
You really are a wet blanket.
93
00:05:07,187 --> 00:05:09,178
Just go about stirring up apathy.
94
00:05:09,427 --> 00:05:11,895
Minister, I must seriously
advise you
95
00:05:12,067 --> 00:05:14,422
with all the earnestness
at my command,
96
00:05:14,587 --> 00:05:17,579
not to refer to the Solihull Project
on the air.
97
00:05:17,747 --> 00:05:18,816
Why?
98
00:05:19,267 --> 00:05:21,064
- What?
- I said, why?
99
00:05:21,467 --> 00:05:22,536
- Why?
- Why?
100
00:05:23,147 --> 00:05:24,147
Well, Minister...
101
00:05:24,307 --> 00:05:27,299
Are you planning to take
the credit for this yourself?
102
00:05:27,627 --> 00:05:30,778
At the European Convention
of Government administration.
103
00:05:30,947 --> 00:05:33,825
Your speech will make
very good reading.
104
00:05:33,987 --> 00:05:35,864
Well, a few facts of life.
105
00:05:36,427 --> 00:05:39,897
Politicians are responsible
ultimately to the people,
106
00:05:40,067 --> 00:05:43,184
and we get the credit.
Not Civil Servants.
107
00:05:43,347 --> 00:05:47,386
I would be perfectly happy for you to
have the "credit" for this project.
108
00:05:47,547 --> 00:05:50,619
But, I must beg, beseech
and implore you not today.
109
00:05:50,787 --> 00:05:53,904
No, it's no good.
I'm not going to fall for it.
110
00:05:54,067 --> 00:05:56,865
I'm going to get
all the political capital of this.
111
00:05:57,027 --> 00:05:58,983
I know a good thing
when I see one.
112
00:05:59,147 --> 00:06:01,103
- Please, do listen to...
- No. No. No.
113
00:06:01,267 --> 00:06:02,666
- Minister, p...
- No,
114
00:06:03,427 --> 00:06:04,701
Humpy.
115
00:06:09,587 --> 00:06:10,940
- What?
- What?
116
00:06:14,947 --> 00:06:18,144
If it had been up to me,
I'd help out like a shot.
117
00:06:18,587 --> 00:06:19,622
Quite so.
118
00:06:19,787 --> 00:06:22,255
It's not the bank's fault
if some idiot Minister
119
00:06:22,427 --> 00:06:25,260
gets into bed with a kid,
who runs with the money.
120
00:06:25,427 --> 00:06:27,895
That Minister wasn't
entirely to blame.
121
00:06:28,067 --> 00:06:30,376
There were extenuating
circumstances.
122
00:06:30,547 --> 00:06:33,857
This Bradley chap looked
very sound at the time.
123
00:06:34,027 --> 00:06:37,542
But you wouldn't have done
a damn fool thing like that.
124
00:06:38,267 --> 00:06:39,495
Would you?
125
00:06:39,747 --> 00:06:43,217
When it looked like Bradley
wanted a loan that was one thing.
126
00:06:43,387 --> 00:06:45,184
But now he can't pay his bills.
127
00:06:45,347 --> 00:06:46,700
Well, he is unlikely
128
00:06:46,867 --> 00:06:50,382
to fulfill his financial undertakings
to Her Majesty's Government.
129
00:06:50,547 --> 00:06:52,265
Can't pay his bills, you mean.
130
00:06:52,747 --> 00:06:56,979
And Her Majesty's Government's
undertakings go down with him.
131
00:06:57,147 --> 00:06:58,147
Yes.
132
00:06:58,307 --> 00:07:01,982
Unless a reputable bank were
to take over the contract
133
00:07:02,147 --> 00:07:05,901
from Bradley with a view
to participating in a project
134
00:07:06,067 --> 00:07:09,855
which Her Majesty's Government
is determined to make profitable.
135
00:07:10,027 --> 00:07:11,027
Quite so.
136
00:07:11,187 --> 00:07:13,655
More Sancerre
for Her Majesty's Government?
137
00:07:15,227 --> 00:07:17,787
Well, like I say,
it's up to my Board.
138
00:07:17,947 --> 00:07:19,983
Could go either way,
quite frankly.
139
00:07:20,387 --> 00:07:22,218
- Could go either way.
- I see.
140
00:07:23,507 --> 00:07:26,817
Incidentally, to change
the subject completely,
141
00:07:26,987 --> 00:07:29,740
you remember the new
Ministry Co-partnership
142
00:07:29,907 --> 00:07:31,863
Commission you mentioned?
143
00:07:32,027 --> 00:07:33,142
Indeed.
144
00:07:33,307 --> 00:07:35,946
The Chairmanship
hasn't been filled yet?
145
00:07:37,347 --> 00:07:40,464
- Not yet, Desmond.
- Because if it were to be...
146
00:07:40,627 --> 00:07:42,345
should one be offered...
147
00:07:42,547 --> 00:07:45,266
not for the money,
I mean, what's 8,000 a year?
148
00:07:45,547 --> 00:07:48,061
160 a week. Part time.
149
00:07:48,227 --> 00:07:49,376
Quite.
150
00:07:49,867 --> 00:07:52,540
But it would be a fascinating...
151
00:07:52,707 --> 00:07:55,380
Has anything been decided,
informally?
152
00:07:55,707 --> 00:07:58,346
You're looking around
for a couple of quangos,
153
00:07:58,507 --> 00:07:59,940
and I can tell you,
154
00:08:01,547 --> 00:08:04,744
in complete confidence,
that your name is
155
00:08:06,907 --> 00:08:08,420
on the shortlist.
156
00:08:09,907 --> 00:08:11,135
On the shortlist?
157
00:08:11,867 --> 00:08:15,018
Quangos can't suddenly
be in short supply, can they?
158
00:08:15,347 --> 00:08:17,736
There's report
in today's Telegraph.
159
00:08:17,907 --> 00:08:19,386
"The Quango Jungle:
160
00:08:20,787 --> 00:08:23,779
There are still around 8,000
paid appointments
161
00:08:23,947 --> 00:08:27,576
within the gift of Ministers
to Quasi Autonomous NGOs,
162
00:08:27,747 --> 00:08:30,898
- at five million pounds a year".
- You'll have two or three spare.
163
00:08:31,067 --> 00:08:33,183
There's certainly
a lot of them around,
164
00:08:33,347 --> 00:08:35,907
the point is finding
one that is appropriate.
165
00:08:36,187 --> 00:08:38,655
There has to be some reason
to appoint you.
166
00:08:39,827 --> 00:08:44,378
What about the Advisory Committee
of Dental Establishments?
167
00:08:44,707 --> 00:08:47,585
- Know anything about teeth?
- I'm a banker.
168
00:08:48,907 --> 00:08:51,660
And that rules out
the Milk Marketing Board, too.
169
00:08:51,867 --> 00:08:52,867
Right.
170
00:08:53,747 --> 00:08:56,978
How about the Dumping
at Sea Representations Panel?
171
00:08:57,147 --> 00:08:59,741
- Do you live near the sea?
- Knightsbridge.
172
00:09:02,987 --> 00:09:04,420
Just behind Harrods.
173
00:09:06,107 --> 00:09:07,665
Not near enough.
174
00:09:07,907 --> 00:09:11,786
That more or less rules out the
Clyde River Purification Board too.
175
00:09:12,107 --> 00:09:13,938
- Rump steak?
- That's for me.
176
00:09:14,107 --> 00:09:16,382
Meat Marketing Board.
Know anything about meat?
177
00:09:16,747 --> 00:09:18,021
I eat it.
178
00:09:18,707 --> 00:09:20,026
Not enough.
179
00:09:20,427 --> 00:09:22,497
It rules out the Meat
and Livestock Commission.
180
00:09:22,667 --> 00:09:25,056
- Doversole. Sir?
- White Fish Authority?
181
00:09:25,227 --> 00:09:26,227
Potatoes?
182
00:09:26,387 --> 00:09:28,298
Potato Marketing Board?
183
00:09:29,227 --> 00:09:32,902
The Governors of the National
Vegetable Research Station?
184
00:09:33,307 --> 00:09:36,265
The National Biological
Standards Board?
185
00:09:36,427 --> 00:09:38,782
Is that my salad.
Thank you, Robert.
186
00:09:39,987 --> 00:09:43,423
The Arable Crops
and Forage Board?
187
00:09:44,307 --> 00:09:47,265
The Food and Drink
Training Board?
188
00:09:47,507 --> 00:09:49,463
Some French mustard, please?
189
00:09:49,627 --> 00:09:53,700
What about the Food Additives
and Contaminants committee?
190
00:09:54,867 --> 00:09:57,427
I know very little
about any of those.
191
00:09:57,867 --> 00:10:00,779
- Well, what do you know about?
- Nothing.
192
00:10:01,667 --> 00:10:04,056
Nothing really.
I'm a banker.
193
00:10:07,187 --> 00:10:08,620
This is not easy.
194
00:10:12,587 --> 00:10:15,340
The Fire Services
Examinations Board?
195
00:10:19,187 --> 00:10:20,905
St. John's Ambulance?
196
00:10:22,467 --> 00:10:24,537
- French mustard, sir.
- Thank you.
197
00:10:24,747 --> 00:10:27,625
What about the Plant Varieties
and Seeds Tribunal?
198
00:10:28,147 --> 00:10:30,263
Dammit, Humphrey, I'm a banker.
199
00:10:30,587 --> 00:10:31,781
Thank you.
200
00:10:32,907 --> 00:10:35,899
There must be some minority
group that you can represent.
201
00:10:36,827 --> 00:10:37,976
Bankers.
202
00:10:38,867 --> 00:10:42,143
You see, the ideal quango
appointee is a black, Welsh,
203
00:10:42,307 --> 00:10:44,616
disabled woman Trade Unionist.
204
00:10:46,307 --> 00:10:49,026
We're all looking
around for one of them.
205
00:10:49,427 --> 00:10:52,305
- You don't happen to know any?
- No.
206
00:10:52,467 --> 00:10:53,980
No. Well...
207
00:10:54,147 --> 00:10:58,379
It all boils down to the Industry
Co-partnership Commission.
208
00:10:58,547 --> 00:11:00,458
I'd find that quite acceptable.
209
00:11:00,627 --> 00:11:03,460
Well, it is within the gift
of my Minister.
210
00:11:04,027 --> 00:11:06,780
And you need only put
in appearances twice a month.
211
00:11:06,947 --> 00:11:08,175
Lots of papers?
212
00:11:08,347 --> 00:11:11,419
Yes, but it wouldn't be awfully
necessary to read them.
213
00:11:12,467 --> 00:11:14,583
I wouldn't have anything to say
at the meetings.
214
00:11:14,747 --> 00:11:17,898
Splendid. You're just the chap
I'm looking for.
215
00:11:23,387 --> 00:11:25,423
Broadcasting House, please.
216
00:11:36,187 --> 00:11:38,257
Sorry to keep you, George.
217
00:11:38,427 --> 00:11:41,578
When you drop me, please
take Mr. Wooly on to the House.
218
00:11:42,027 --> 00:11:44,621
Why Humphrey wants to stop me
219
00:11:44,787 --> 00:11:47,347
mentioning
the Solihull Project on the air?
220
00:11:47,507 --> 00:11:50,419
Didn't you think he gave
6 or 7 convincing reasons?
221
00:11:50,587 --> 00:11:51,986
No. Did you?
222
00:11:52,147 --> 00:11:54,024
I think he knows
what he's doing.
223
00:11:54,187 --> 00:11:55,666
Sure he does.
224
00:11:55,867 --> 00:11:57,698
I only wish I knew
what he was doing.
225
00:11:57,867 --> 00:12:00,939
I'm sure if Sir Humphrey
advises something, then,
226
00:12:01,107 --> 00:12:03,905
whatever he does advise
is advisable.
227
00:12:05,707 --> 00:12:08,221
- What do you advise?
- It's not for me to advise,
228
00:12:08,387 --> 00:12:10,947
but I would advise you
that you would be
229
00:12:11,107 --> 00:12:14,224
well advised to follow
Sir Humphrey's advice.
230
00:12:15,387 --> 00:12:16,387
Why?
231
00:12:16,667 --> 00:12:18,737
Well, it's just that...
232
00:12:18,907 --> 00:12:21,057
certain projects have
certain aspects which,
233
00:12:21,227 --> 00:12:24,822
with sensitive handling,
given reasonable discretion,
234
00:12:24,987 --> 00:12:29,299
when events permit,
there is no prima facie reason why,
235
00:12:29,547 --> 00:12:33,256
with appropriate give and take,
if if all goes well,
236
00:12:33,427 --> 00:12:37,784
in the fullness of time,
when the moment is ripe, er...
237
00:12:39,187 --> 00:12:40,745
You're blathering.
238
00:12:41,427 --> 00:12:44,146
- Yes, Minister.
- Why are you blathering?
239
00:12:44,307 --> 00:12:45,865
It's my job, Minister.
240
00:12:47,107 --> 00:12:50,258
An example of this
is going on up in Solihull now.
241
00:12:50,467 --> 00:12:52,423
Government money
and private investment
242
00:12:52,587 --> 00:12:54,543
working together
in a real partnership.
243
00:12:54,707 --> 00:12:55,935
Claptrap.
244
00:12:56,107 --> 00:12:59,702
And it's symbolic of the way
this Government is working.
245
00:12:59,867 --> 00:13:03,462
I've taken a personal interest
in the Solihull Project because...
246
00:13:03,627 --> 00:13:07,586
Not just words, it is actually there
in bricks and mortar.
247
00:13:07,947 --> 00:13:10,666
A concrete example,
if I may put it like that,
248
00:13:10,827 --> 00:13:13,466
of the fact that our principles
really work.
249
00:13:13,747 --> 00:13:17,103
Thank you, Minister.
One last word, Mr. Conway?
250
00:13:17,467 --> 00:13:21,380
There's nothing wrong
with the principle of partnership...
251
00:13:21,547 --> 00:13:23,936
Provided
that there's no interference
252
00:13:24,107 --> 00:13:27,656
in management decisions
from the State or the workforce.
253
00:13:27,827 --> 00:13:29,977
Thank you, Mr. Conway.
Joe Morgan?
254
00:13:30,187 --> 00:13:32,906
Dear, oh dear, oh dear.
255
00:13:33,587 --> 00:13:36,181
We all know
that Mr. Conway is talking
256
00:13:36,347 --> 00:13:38,622
out of date capitalist claptrap.
257
00:13:39,547 --> 00:13:41,981
If partnership is to mean
anything, it must mean
258
00:13:42,147 --> 00:13:45,935
an equal partnership between
unions, government and industry.
259
00:13:46,107 --> 00:13:48,302
- In that order.
- A final word, Minister?
260
00:13:48,467 --> 00:13:52,096
- There's no need to be offensive.
- Gentlemen, please.
261
00:13:52,347 --> 00:13:54,065
We're all in agreement.
262
00:13:54,227 --> 00:13:57,378
We've shown
that if we can work together
263
00:13:57,547 --> 00:13:59,663
we can forge a new Britain.
264
00:13:59,827 --> 00:14:03,536
And it's a pleasure to talk
to two of the principal forgers...
265
00:14:03,707 --> 00:14:05,504
principal participants.
266
00:14:05,747 --> 00:14:06,747
Thank you.
267
00:14:06,907 --> 00:14:10,058
James Hacker, Minister
for Administrative Affairs,
268
00:14:10,227 --> 00:14:14,459
was talking with George Conway,
from the Construction Federation,
269
00:14:14,627 --> 00:14:18,984
and Joe Morgan, from the Commercial
and Administrative Workers Union.
270
00:14:22,347 --> 00:14:25,384
Splendid. Thank you all.
Jean will take you to Hospitality.
271
00:14:25,547 --> 00:14:27,981
- Was it really all right?
- First class.
272
00:14:28,147 --> 00:14:29,819
Most interesting, Minister.
273
00:14:31,107 --> 00:14:35,180
Can we edit that awful Hacker
waffle down to two and a half?
274
00:14:35,507 --> 00:14:37,099
Leave the Solihull bit.
275
00:14:38,467 --> 00:14:41,300
- Joe, see you later.
- Yes, George.
276
00:14:41,467 --> 00:14:43,662
I hope you won't mind
my mentioning it,
277
00:14:43,827 --> 00:14:45,897
Mr. Hacker, but could
you put a word in
278
00:14:46,067 --> 00:14:49,025
for my members' claim for
a special Birmingham allowance?
279
00:14:49,187 --> 00:14:53,066
I don't think I can conduct Trade
Union negotiations in a BBC studio.
280
00:14:53,347 --> 00:14:56,180
And that's a matter
for the Employment...
281
00:14:56,347 --> 00:14:58,542
- But a word from you...
- No, I'm sorry.
282
00:14:58,707 --> 00:15:02,382
We'd have a Manchester allowance,
Plymouth allowance,
283
00:15:02,547 --> 00:15:04,299
Chipping Sodbury allowance...
284
00:15:04,467 --> 00:15:08,904
After this broadcast people might
ask about the Solihull project,
285
00:15:09,067 --> 00:15:11,058
wanting to know more about it.
286
00:15:11,227 --> 00:15:12,376
I hope they do.
287
00:15:12,547 --> 00:15:17,177
But as we know, there are
some things better not found out.
288
00:15:18,907 --> 00:15:20,977
I'm sure we understand
one another.
289
00:15:22,627 --> 00:15:23,696
Do we?
290
00:15:24,547 --> 00:15:26,185
Something in your eye?
291
00:15:27,107 --> 00:15:29,382
- Just a gleam.
- What?
292
00:15:29,667 --> 00:15:31,464
Oh, come off it, Hacker.
293
00:15:31,627 --> 00:15:34,300
We've got you
by the short and curlies.
294
00:15:35,107 --> 00:15:37,621
And I'm asking
10 % below London allowance,
295
00:15:37,787 --> 00:15:40,506
and we'll settle for 30 % below.
296
00:15:40,667 --> 00:15:42,817
Give you the credit
for beating us down.
297
00:15:42,987 --> 00:15:46,297
No allowance. You'd better
resign yourself to that.
298
00:15:46,667 --> 00:15:49,739
I'm not the one
who will have to resign.
299
00:15:50,107 --> 00:15:52,860
- What are you talking about?
- The Solihull Project.
300
00:15:53,027 --> 00:15:56,019
I could hardly believe
you took all the credit for it.
301
00:15:56,187 --> 00:15:59,657
Great courage, of course,
but whatever possessed you?
302
00:15:59,827 --> 00:16:03,024
"Cannons to the right of him,
Cannons to the left of him,
303
00:16:03,187 --> 00:16:05,906
Into the Valley of death
rode Mr. Hacker".
304
00:16:13,427 --> 00:16:14,860
How did it go, sir?
305
00:16:15,947 --> 00:16:18,222
Oh, very well. Very well.
306
00:16:18,747 --> 00:16:21,819
I was talking about government
industry cooperation.
307
00:16:22,547 --> 00:16:25,539
There's a very interesting project
in the Midlands.
308
00:16:25,707 --> 00:16:29,905
I don't suppose you'd have heard
about it, but it's very interesting
309
00:16:30,827 --> 00:16:32,704
if you know the background.
310
00:16:32,907 --> 00:16:35,216
You don't mean
the Solihull Project, sir?
311
00:16:35,507 --> 00:16:37,463
Yes. You have heard about it.
312
00:16:40,187 --> 00:16:42,576
- What are you laughing about?
- Nothing, sir.
313
00:16:46,027 --> 00:16:48,416
- What have you heard?
- Nothing really, sir.
314
00:16:49,267 --> 00:16:51,223
It's a shining example
of collaboration
315
00:16:51,387 --> 00:16:53,343
between government and industry.
316
00:16:55,667 --> 00:16:57,862
What do you know about all this?
317
00:16:58,027 --> 00:17:02,339
37 journeys between the Ministry
and Mr. Michael Bradley's office,
318
00:17:02,507 --> 00:17:05,897
44 Farringdon Street, and
129 Birmingham Road, Solihull.
319
00:17:06,307 --> 00:17:07,865
37 journeys? Who with?
320
00:17:08,027 --> 00:17:11,303
Your predecessor, sir,
and Sir Humphrey, mostly.
321
00:17:13,987 --> 00:17:16,626
Very cheerful they were,
on the first few trips.
322
00:17:16,787 --> 00:17:19,620
They kept talking about
shining examples
323
00:17:19,787 --> 00:17:22,426
of successful collaboration
and such like.
324
00:17:22,947 --> 00:17:25,541
Then the gloom started
to come down.
325
00:17:26,347 --> 00:17:29,225
- Gloom?
- Well, no not gloom.
326
00:17:29,747 --> 00:17:31,863
More like desperation, really.
327
00:17:32,227 --> 00:17:34,138
Desperation?
What about?
328
00:17:35,027 --> 00:17:37,222
You know the background, sir.
329
00:17:38,067 --> 00:17:39,739
Well, yes, yes...
330
00:17:40,747 --> 00:17:43,705
Any bit of the background
you were thinking of?
331
00:17:44,027 --> 00:17:47,906
No. When something's fishy,
it's just fishy, isn't it?
332
00:17:48,267 --> 00:17:50,986
You don't know which bit
the smell's coming from.
333
00:17:51,347 --> 00:17:54,419
- Fishy?
- Well, I don't really know.
334
00:17:54,827 --> 00:17:57,899
For all I know,
Mr. Bradley may be quite kosher,
335
00:17:58,067 --> 00:18:01,184
despite everything
Sir Humphrey said about him.
336
00:18:01,627 --> 00:18:04,016
You know more about all that
than I do.
337
00:18:04,187 --> 00:18:05,461
I'm just the driver.
338
00:18:06,267 --> 00:18:07,700
Quite. Quite.
339
00:18:08,267 --> 00:18:10,098
I'm just the Minister.
340
00:18:10,907 --> 00:18:14,422
An allowance for Morgan's union
is out of the question.
341
00:18:14,587 --> 00:18:16,703
But how was the broadcast?
342
00:18:16,987 --> 00:18:19,023
Well, all right, I think.
343
00:18:19,187 --> 00:18:20,461
You think?
344
00:18:20,907 --> 00:18:23,740
I talked
about the Solihull Project.
345
00:18:23,987 --> 00:18:26,421
And then I had second thoughts.
346
00:18:26,587 --> 00:18:28,305
Any particular reason?
347
00:18:28,707 --> 00:18:33,383
No... Humphrey, is everything all
right about the Solihull Project?
348
00:18:33,707 --> 00:18:34,856
Yes, Minister.
349
00:18:35,027 --> 00:18:37,382
The building works
proceed satisfactorily.
350
00:18:37,547 --> 00:18:40,061
No, no, no,
that's not what I meant.
351
00:18:40,707 --> 00:18:43,585
- Is something going on?
- Building is going on.
352
00:18:43,747 --> 00:18:45,021
No, no, Humphrey.
353
00:18:45,187 --> 00:18:47,064
Something's up, isn't it?
354
00:18:47,387 --> 00:18:49,378
- Yes indeed, Minister.
- What?
355
00:18:49,547 --> 00:18:51,981
The 1st floor is up,
and the 2nd floor almost up.
356
00:18:52,147 --> 00:18:55,139
I'm talking about the whole basis
of the thing.
357
00:18:55,307 --> 00:18:56,899
Oh, I see.
358
00:18:57,067 --> 00:19:00,503
- What can you tell me about?
- As I understand it...
359
00:19:00,667 --> 00:19:03,101
The basis is an aggregate
of gravel and cement on
360
00:19:03,267 --> 00:19:05,258
six feet of best builders rubble.
361
00:19:05,427 --> 00:19:08,180
You know I am talking
about the finance.
362
00:19:08,347 --> 00:19:12,135
Our contract with the construction
company you mean?
363
00:19:12,307 --> 00:19:15,265
The stage payments are
in accordance with all the usual...
364
00:19:15,427 --> 00:19:17,782
Humphrey!
What is it that I don't know?
365
00:19:18,667 --> 00:19:22,501
- What precisely do you mean?
- I don't know.
366
00:19:23,107 --> 00:19:25,223
That's just it, I don't know
367
00:19:25,387 --> 00:19:28,538
because I can't find
what questions to ask you,
368
00:19:28,707 --> 00:19:31,665
and I don't know what to ask you
because I don't know.
369
00:19:31,827 --> 00:19:33,545
What is it that I don't know?
370
00:19:33,787 --> 00:19:36,779
Minister, I don't know
what you don't know.
371
00:19:37,267 --> 00:19:39,019
It could be almost anything.
372
00:19:39,187 --> 00:19:42,179
- You're keeping something from me.
- Yes indeed.
373
00:19:42,387 --> 00:19:45,584
It is the Department's duty
to protect the Minister
374
00:19:45,747 --> 00:19:48,466
from the great tide
of irrelevant information
375
00:19:48,627 --> 00:19:51,858
that beats against the walls
of this Department.
376
00:19:52,027 --> 00:19:54,063
There is something
about the Solihull Project
377
00:19:54,227 --> 00:19:56,502
that I know I don't know
and I know you know.
378
00:19:56,667 --> 00:19:58,737
I know Bernard knows.
Joe Morgan knows.
379
00:19:58,907 --> 00:20:00,818
My own driver knows
more than I do.
380
00:20:00,987 --> 00:20:04,423
Only poor Joe Soap who has
to tell the public about it
381
00:20:04,587 --> 00:20:07,704
hasn't got a clue
as to what's going on.
382
00:20:09,027 --> 00:20:11,257
Will you answer
a simple question?
383
00:20:11,467 --> 00:20:13,856
Certainly, Minister.
What is it?
384
00:20:14,587 --> 00:20:16,225
I don't know!
385
00:20:17,027 --> 00:20:19,097
If you tell me, I'll ask it!
386
00:20:19,507 --> 00:20:20,507
Well...
387
00:20:20,667 --> 00:20:23,056
- Yes, Frank?
- Our meeting.
388
00:20:23,227 --> 00:20:25,616
- About my quango paper.
- Come on in.
389
00:20:25,787 --> 00:20:29,063
- You've read Frank's paper?
- Yes indeed, Minister.
390
00:20:29,627 --> 00:20:33,256
What did you think about ending
the ministerial patronage?
391
00:20:33,427 --> 00:20:35,577
All those thousands
of jobs for the boys.
392
00:20:35,747 --> 00:20:38,181
Most original and imaginative.
393
00:20:38,627 --> 00:20:39,696
You liked it?
394
00:20:39,867 --> 00:20:43,223
Those are two of Humphrey's
most damning criticisms.
395
00:20:43,507 --> 00:20:45,896
It would be a very popular
political move.
396
00:20:46,067 --> 00:20:49,343
Hand the quango appointments
over to Parliament.
397
00:20:49,507 --> 00:20:53,466
The best men for the job instead
of old chums, party hacks.
398
00:20:53,627 --> 00:20:55,458
It should be legislated.
399
00:20:55,627 --> 00:20:58,425
- It is a novel proposal...
- That's the other killer.
400
00:20:58,587 --> 00:21:01,181
But when a system
is working smoothly...
401
00:21:01,347 --> 00:21:04,544
Smoothly! Look at this!
Proposal for Chairman
402
00:21:04,707 --> 00:21:07,779
of the new Industrial
Co-parthership Commission,
403
00:21:07,947 --> 00:21:10,336
Sir Desmond Glazebrook,
I ask you!
404
00:21:10,507 --> 00:21:12,418
He's never been in industry,
405
00:21:12,587 --> 00:21:15,784
and he's said unpleasant things
about this government.
406
00:21:15,947 --> 00:21:18,177
Is that a smoothly
operating system?
407
00:21:18,347 --> 00:21:21,100
- He would be an excellent...
- He's a blithering idiot!
408
00:21:21,267 --> 00:21:24,896
- Yes, but an excellent Chairman.
- I'm sorry, Humphrey.
409
00:21:25,067 --> 00:21:27,979
I am not going to appoint
Sir Desmond Glazebrook.
410
00:21:28,147 --> 00:21:30,536
- Minister, you must.
- No, no, no...
411
00:21:30,707 --> 00:21:33,540
- Please, Minister...
- No way. No Glazebrook.
412
00:21:33,707 --> 00:21:35,663
Over my dead body. Right?
413
00:21:35,907 --> 00:21:39,297
Minister, before you make
your final decision
414
00:21:41,147 --> 00:21:43,980
I think perhaps you ought
to see this.
415
00:21:46,307 --> 00:21:48,298
"Report on the Solihull Project".
416
00:21:48,467 --> 00:21:50,025
Why is it top secret?
417
00:21:51,227 --> 00:21:52,865
"7.5 million pounds...
418
00:21:53,027 --> 00:21:55,063
probably bankrupt proceedings...
419
00:21:56,187 --> 00:21:58,542
imminent collapse of project"...
well...
420
00:22:00,267 --> 00:22:02,542
Imminent collapse of project!
421
00:22:03,587 --> 00:22:05,145
Why didn't you tell me?
422
00:22:05,307 --> 00:22:08,265
I am conscious of the heavy
burdens of your office.
423
00:22:08,427 --> 00:22:11,100
But this'll be
all over the front pages.
424
00:22:11,267 --> 00:22:13,542
It's a public scandal,
a disaster. It's...
425
00:22:13,707 --> 00:22:15,379
- It's appalling...
- Jim.
426
00:22:15,547 --> 00:22:18,778
It is dated before the election.
You're in the clear.
427
00:22:18,947 --> 00:22:21,939
Yes, but unfortunately
under the convention
428
00:22:22,107 --> 00:22:24,940
of Ministerial responsibility,
the blame must fall...
429
00:22:25,107 --> 00:22:27,575
- Everyone will know it wasn't Jim.
- Quite so.
430
00:22:27,747 --> 00:22:31,262
The principle of democratic
accountability requires
431
00:22:31,427 --> 00:22:33,463
the occasional human sacrifice.
432
00:22:34,067 --> 00:22:36,740
When the pack
is baying for blood...
433
00:22:36,907 --> 00:22:39,262
- Isn't that right?
- He'll point to the dates...
434
00:22:39,427 --> 00:22:43,306
Oh, a lesser man might try
to wriggle out of it.
435
00:22:43,467 --> 00:22:46,459
But there is only
one honourable course open.
436
00:22:46,667 --> 00:22:49,386
As the Minister is well aware.
437
00:22:49,987 --> 00:22:51,898
Frank might have a point?
438
00:22:52,107 --> 00:22:54,905
Only today you have publicly
identified yourself
439
00:22:55,067 --> 00:22:56,944
with the success of the project.
440
00:22:57,307 --> 00:22:59,377
The broadcast!
When's it going out?
441
00:22:59,547 --> 00:23:01,856
It's due for transmission
about now.
442
00:23:02,027 --> 00:23:03,540
Get on to the BBC at once.
443
00:23:03,707 --> 00:23:05,698
- Stop it!
- Stop what? Oh yes...
444
00:23:06,427 --> 00:23:09,499
I wish you luck but you know
what the BBC are like.
445
00:23:09,667 --> 00:23:12,101
This is a crisis,
this is a scandal...
446
00:23:12,267 --> 00:23:15,816
If you were to put it like that,
they might...
447
00:23:15,987 --> 00:23:18,979
- Might what?
- Move it to peak listening time.
448
00:23:20,747 --> 00:23:21,862
Any luck?
449
00:23:22,027 --> 00:23:26,145
A perfect example of what can be
done is going on up in Solihull.
450
00:23:26,307 --> 00:23:29,504
Government money and private
investment in real partnership
451
00:23:29,667 --> 00:23:33,706
to me, symbolic of everything
this Government is working for.
452
00:23:33,867 --> 00:23:37,382
I've taken a great personal
interest in the Solihull project.
453
00:23:37,547 --> 00:23:41,460
It's not just words, it's actually
there in bricks and mortar...
454
00:23:47,347 --> 00:23:50,419
"Symbolic of everything
this Government is working for".
455
00:23:51,347 --> 00:23:53,781
How could you let me say
all those things?
456
00:23:53,947 --> 00:23:55,903
Minister, I can only advise.
457
00:23:56,067 --> 00:23:58,535
I did advise.
I advised most strongly.
458
00:23:58,707 --> 00:24:00,823
But when the adviser's advice
is unheeded...
459
00:24:00,987 --> 00:24:02,705
All right, all right.
460
00:24:03,507 --> 00:24:05,304
Advise me now.
461
00:24:06,187 --> 00:24:07,700
Certainly, Minister.
462
00:24:07,987 --> 00:24:10,501
It is possible that the bank
may take over
463
00:24:10,667 --> 00:24:13,101
the contract from Bradley
and Sloane Enterprises Ltd.
464
00:24:13,267 --> 00:24:14,746
And all will be well.
465
00:24:14,907 --> 00:24:18,695
- The bank! Fine! Well...
- The bank, however, is hesitant.
466
00:24:18,987 --> 00:24:21,820
But it so happens that
the Director in charge
467
00:24:21,987 --> 00:24:24,376
is to retire next year
and he's anxious
468
00:24:24,547 --> 00:24:26,424
to find another appointment...
469
00:24:26,587 --> 00:24:28,976
a chairmanship of a quango,
for instance.
470
00:24:29,147 --> 00:24:30,341
Give him one!
471
00:24:30,547 --> 00:24:33,107
Give him that one you were
reserving for that idiot
472
00:24:33,267 --> 00:24:35,223
Sir Desmond Glazebrook.
473
00:24:36,107 --> 00:24:37,301
Who is the Director?
474
00:24:37,467 --> 00:24:38,616
Desmond Glazebrook.
475
00:24:43,027 --> 00:24:44,904
He's not a bad chap, really.
476
00:24:45,707 --> 00:24:47,823
He's always attacking
the government.
477
00:24:47,987 --> 00:24:52,060
It does us good sometimes
to appoint our opponents.
478
00:24:52,227 --> 00:24:54,218
It's democratic, statesmanlike.
479
00:24:54,387 --> 00:24:56,901
Yes, that's
a very good appointment.
480
00:24:57,067 --> 00:24:59,183
- But you can't.
- Do shut up, Frank!
481
00:24:59,627 --> 00:25:01,265
Anybody else know about this?
482
00:25:01,427 --> 00:25:04,976
Apart from ourselves
and the bank and Michael Bradley,
483
00:25:05,147 --> 00:25:07,103
the Union representative.
484
00:25:07,267 --> 00:25:08,825
Joe Morgan!
Of course.
485
00:25:09,107 --> 00:25:12,816
That's what was behind his special
Birmingham allowance claim.
486
00:25:13,147 --> 00:25:15,263
- Blackmail.
- Quite so, Minister.
487
00:25:15,427 --> 00:25:17,418
Humphrey, I've been thinking.
488
00:25:17,667 --> 00:25:20,784
Desmond Glazebrook
will need some support.
489
00:25:20,987 --> 00:25:22,340
A Deputy Chairman,
490
00:25:22,507 --> 00:25:25,226
someone with real
experience of Industry.
491
00:25:26,307 --> 00:25:28,263
An excellent thought.
492
00:25:28,547 --> 00:25:32,745
Is there anyone you could
advise me would be appropriate?
493
00:25:33,067 --> 00:25:35,740
A Trade Unionist, for example?
494
00:25:38,147 --> 00:25:40,502
What about Joe Morgan, Minister?
495
00:25:40,667 --> 00:25:42,066
Joe Morgan!
496
00:25:42,987 --> 00:25:45,421
What an excellent idea.
Well done.
497
00:25:45,587 --> 00:25:47,862
It takes two to quango, Minister.
498
00:25:49,547 --> 00:25:51,856
Get on to them both immediately.
499
00:25:52,027 --> 00:25:54,905
This is what's wrong
with the system!
500
00:25:55,067 --> 00:25:58,184
It's jobs for the boys,
quid pro quo corruption.
501
00:25:58,347 --> 00:26:00,338
What about my quango
abolition paper?
502
00:26:00,507 --> 00:26:03,738
Very good, Frank.
Original and imaginative.
503
00:26:03,907 --> 00:26:05,135
- Novel.
- Novel.
504
00:26:06,147 --> 00:26:08,422
I'm serious about it.
What are you going to do?
505
00:26:11,827 --> 00:26:14,546
You're not going to suppress it.
506
00:26:14,707 --> 00:26:17,585
I'll get it adopted as party policy.
507
00:26:17,747 --> 00:26:20,022
If the Press were
to get hold of this...
508
00:26:20,187 --> 00:26:23,065
Yes, if the Press
were to get hold of this.
509
00:26:23,227 --> 00:26:25,821
- What a story!
- Frank, I've been wondering.
510
00:26:25,987 --> 00:26:28,660
Have you ever thought
of serving on a quango?
511
00:26:28,827 --> 00:26:30,624
You're not corrupting me.
512
00:26:30,787 --> 00:26:32,539
No, no, of course not.
513
00:26:32,707 --> 00:26:34,857
But perhaps
better than abolishing
514
00:26:35,027 --> 00:26:37,985
the entire system
would be to make it work.
515
00:26:38,467 --> 00:26:41,106
Humphrey and I were thinking,
if we were to set up
516
00:26:41,267 --> 00:26:43,781
a special commission
to investigate and report
517
00:26:43,947 --> 00:26:47,064
on the composition
and activities of all quangos,
518
00:26:47,227 --> 00:26:48,979
that might be the answer.
519
00:26:49,147 --> 00:26:50,182
The answer!
520
00:26:50,347 --> 00:26:53,783
It would have to be very senior,
mostly Privy Councillors.
521
00:26:54,787 --> 00:26:57,426
But it would need too
some very able people
522
00:26:57,587 --> 00:26:59,259
who have studied quangos
523
00:26:59,427 --> 00:27:01,657
and knew the abuses
of the system.
524
00:27:01,907 --> 00:27:05,024
And in the light
of your knowledge and concern,
525
00:27:05,187 --> 00:27:07,826
Humphrey suggested your name.
526
00:27:09,547 --> 00:27:12,266
- Didn't you, Humphrey?
- Mr. Weisel, I said.
527
00:27:12,787 --> 00:27:14,937
You're not going to change
my opinions.
528
00:27:15,107 --> 00:27:17,940
- There is such a thing as integrity.
- Of course.
529
00:27:18,107 --> 00:27:20,621
Your opinions and your integrity
would make you
530
00:27:20,787 --> 00:27:22,857
such a valuable member
of this quango.
531
00:27:23,027 --> 00:27:25,461
Mind you,
it would be very hard work.
532
00:27:26,187 --> 00:27:28,985
Service to this Super Quango
would involve you
533
00:27:29,147 --> 00:27:32,298
in some very arduous
foreign travel,
534
00:27:33,787 --> 00:27:36,176
to see how these matters
are managed
535
00:27:36,347 --> 00:27:38,542
in other important
government centres.
536
00:27:39,147 --> 00:27:40,899
Japan, Australia,
537
00:27:41,227 --> 00:27:42,785
California,
538
00:27:43,347 --> 00:27:44,826
the West Indies...
539
00:27:45,467 --> 00:27:47,583
- Tahiti...
- Tahiti.
540
00:27:49,947 --> 00:27:52,586
Yes, that would be fairly arduous.
541
00:27:52,747 --> 00:27:55,341
Dreadful. Dreadful.
542
00:27:55,947 --> 00:27:58,620
But serving the public's what
it's all about, isn't it?
543
00:27:58,787 --> 00:28:00,425
- Absolutely...
- Serving the public.
544
00:28:00,587 --> 00:28:02,100
Serving the public.
545
00:28:03,347 --> 00:28:05,019
And my quango paper?
546
00:28:05,187 --> 00:28:07,747
Invaluable, take it with you.
547
00:28:09,667 --> 00:28:14,218
I'll keep a copy,
if I may, on the files.
548
00:28:14,747 --> 00:28:16,624
With the Solihull Report.
549
00:28:17,387 --> 00:28:18,786
Yes, Minister.
43179
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