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1
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Number one's Michael.
2
00:00:37,771 --> 00:00:39,849
The others are numbered in
the order we unearthed them.
3
00:00:39,873 --> 00:00:42,968
So, Michael and remains
two and three were in grave A,
4
00:00:43,010 --> 00:00:44,638
remains four and
five were in grave B
5
00:00:44,678 --> 00:00:47,546
and remains six and
seven were in grave C.
6
00:00:47,581 --> 00:00:52,383
So, to reiterate, they all underwent
some form of dismemberment.
7
00:00:52,419 --> 00:00:53,887
Remarkably few bones missing.
8
00:00:53,921 --> 00:00:56,652
Teeth, nails, small
bones, they're all there.
9
00:00:56,690 --> 00:00:59,660
Four and five are missing
vertebrae from the neck, that's all.
10
00:00:59,693 --> 00:01:01,525
But they were both decapitated,
11
00:01:01,562 --> 00:01:03,740
presumably to fit into grave B,
which was smaller than the other two.
12
00:01:03,764 --> 00:01:05,460
And that would account for it.
13
00:01:05,499 --> 00:01:07,343
Hacking away at the neck,
you're going to dislodge something.
14
00:01:07,367 --> 00:01:08,611
The ropes I've
put by the wrists,
15
00:01:08,635 --> 00:01:10,246
it's because that's
where they were found.
16
00:01:10,270 --> 00:01:12,967
Arms were behind the
back, presumably tied.
17
00:01:13,006 --> 00:01:15,339
A very unnatural position
to be in if they weren't.
18
00:01:15,375 --> 00:01:18,436
Similarly, I've put the belts
and fragments of knotted cloth
19
00:01:18,478 --> 00:01:20,743
next to the heads because
that's where they were found.
20
00:01:20,781 --> 00:01:24,081
Round the head, under
the chin, tied at the top.
21
00:01:24,117 --> 00:01:27,610
Presumably to keep their mouths
shut. Draw your own conclusions.
22
00:01:27,654 --> 00:01:29,919
Some had fallen away
since decomposition,
23
00:01:29,957 --> 00:01:33,792
but they were close enough to
suggest that's what they were used for.
24
00:01:43,036 --> 00:01:44,868
Are you all right?
25
00:01:44,905 --> 00:01:48,137
You know what the forensic
archaeologist and Denise said,
26
00:01:48,175 --> 00:01:50,906
about how none of them
were buried at the same time?
27
00:01:50,944 --> 00:01:52,003
Yeah.
28
00:01:52,045 --> 00:01:53,377
They were all buried separately.
29
00:01:53,413 --> 00:01:55,973
- Even though they're in the same graves.
- Yeah.
30
00:01:56,016 --> 00:01:58,713
We've been blithely
talking, like assuming,
31
00:01:58,752 --> 00:02:01,745
he filled one grave up and
then moved onto the next.
32
00:02:01,788 --> 00:02:03,188
But it doesn't make sense.
33
00:02:03,223 --> 00:02:05,089
You don't dig a grave
and leave it open
34
00:02:05,125 --> 00:02:06,923
just in case you kill
someone else later.
35
00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:08,938
Even though you know you are
going to kill someone else later,
36
00:02:08,962 --> 00:02:12,126
because you're a mad twat,
you still tidy up between jobs.
37
00:02:12,165 --> 00:02:15,135
You just do, but
that isn't everything.
38
00:02:15,168 --> 00:02:19,469
If he did fill each grave
before he moved onto the next,
39
00:02:19,506 --> 00:02:22,567
there'd be three in two of the graves
and one in the third, wouldn't there?
40
00:02:22,609 --> 00:02:23,770
Why?
41
00:02:23,810 --> 00:02:25,221
Because you'd fill each one
up before you dug a new one.
42
00:02:25,245 --> 00:02:27,646
He didn't do that.
Two of them weren't full
43
00:02:27,681 --> 00:02:30,344
and they were all as deep
as each other, so why not?
44
00:02:30,384 --> 00:02:32,012
What if...
45
00:02:32,052 --> 00:02:34,631
Look, that cellar's tiny, right? He
couldn't have dug another grave
46
00:02:34,655 --> 00:02:36,681
in there if he wanted
to. It's too small, yeah?
47
00:02:36,723 --> 00:02:39,249
- Yeah.
- So, he rotates.
48
00:02:39,292 --> 00:02:41,784
He kills the first
victim, he digs a grave.
49
00:02:41,828 --> 00:02:44,423
He kills the second
victim, he digs a grave.
50
00:02:44,464 --> 00:02:47,093
He kills the third
victim, he digs a grave.
51
00:02:47,134 --> 00:02:48,659
He kills his fourth
victim, it's like,
52
00:02:48,702 --> 00:02:50,694
"Ooh, shit, where am I
going to stick this one?"
53
00:02:50,737 --> 00:02:53,730
So, thinking he's buried his
victims nice and deep, which he did,
54
00:02:53,774 --> 00:02:56,710
he goes back to the
first grave, grave A,
55
00:02:56,743 --> 00:02:58,302
thinking, "There's
room in there."
56
00:02:58,345 --> 00:03:00,974
Victim number five,
he puts in grave B.
57
00:03:01,014 --> 00:03:03,449
Victim number six
goes in grave C.
58
00:03:03,483 --> 00:03:05,315
Then he gets to Michael,
59
00:03:05,352 --> 00:03:08,982
number seven, and he's
triple-stacking in grave A.
60
00:03:09,022 --> 00:03:11,321
Which would make Michael
61
00:03:11,358 --> 00:03:13,953
the last victim, at
least in that cellar.
62
00:03:13,994 --> 00:03:15,553
The point is,
63
00:03:15,595 --> 00:03:18,292
if Michael was buried last, it
whittles our timescale down,
64
00:03:18,331 --> 00:03:21,699
because we know exactly
when Michael was killed, so...
65
00:03:21,735 --> 00:03:26,139
We know our victims were
killed between March, 1966,
66
00:03:26,173 --> 00:03:27,698
when the Bevans
moved into that house,
67
00:03:27,741 --> 00:03:31,940
and June, 1977, when Helen
helped Joe bury Michael.
68
00:03:31,978 --> 00:03:36,040
That would also mean remains three,
the one at the bottom of the grave,
69
00:03:36,083 --> 00:03:38,780
Michael, grave A, was
buried in, was the first victim.
70
00:03:39,553 --> 00:03:40,987
Yeah. Yeah. It would.
71
00:03:41,021 --> 00:03:43,957
And if we could work out the
order graves B and C were dug in,
72
00:03:43,990 --> 00:03:45,925
we'd know the order
they were all buried in
73
00:03:45,959 --> 00:03:48,758
and, presumably, therefore
the order they were killed in.
74
00:03:48,795 --> 00:03:50,661
And grave B was the smallest
75
00:03:50,697 --> 00:03:52,928
because he had to
decapitate them to get them in,
76
00:03:52,966 --> 00:03:54,867
which might suggest
that was dug last,
77
00:03:54,901 --> 00:03:57,166
because he'd gone and left
himself not so much room.
78
00:03:57,204 --> 00:03:59,833
The whole thing is
speculative bollocks, of course.
79
00:03:59,873 --> 00:04:02,399
Now all we still have to do
is find out who they all are.
80
00:04:02,442 --> 00:04:04,604
Oh, damn. Can you?
81
00:04:07,380 --> 00:04:08,678
Denise, hi.
82
00:04:08,715 --> 00:04:11,116
No, it's Gill. Uh, she's
driving. Do you want her?
83
00:04:15,322 --> 00:04:18,087
- I can. I'll tell her.
- What?
84
00:04:18,125 --> 00:04:20,959
They've found human
remains under the floorboards
85
00:04:20,994 --> 00:04:22,622
in Eunice and Joe's bedroom.
86
00:04:26,266 --> 00:04:29,259
So, I want to talk to you
about the cellar again, Joe.
87
00:04:29,302 --> 00:04:31,567
I know, I've asked you
this question before,
88
00:04:31,605 --> 00:04:34,575
but I'm going to ask you again.
89
00:04:34,608 --> 00:04:37,601
Can you explain to me
what you used the cellar for?
90
00:04:37,644 --> 00:04:38,907
Nothing.
91
00:04:38,945 --> 00:04:41,915
Like I said, Eunice used
to potter about down there.
92
00:04:41,948 --> 00:04:46,113
And the kids went down there
to muck about, from time to time.
93
00:04:46,153 --> 00:04:48,384
But I had no reason to
go down there myself.
94
00:04:51,958 --> 00:04:53,984
Do you recognise this key, Joe?
95
00:04:54,027 --> 00:04:55,495
No.
96
00:04:55,529 --> 00:04:58,658
That is the key, the only key
that we've found in your house,
97
00:04:58,698 --> 00:05:01,532
that opens the lock on
the door into the cellar.
98
00:05:03,036 --> 00:05:04,527
So, can you explain to me, Joe,
99
00:05:04,571 --> 00:05:07,302
if you've never
been in the cellar,
100
00:05:07,340 --> 00:05:10,572
why that key has got
your fingerprints on it?
101
00:05:10,610 --> 00:05:12,579
Well, I could have picked it up.
102
00:05:14,347 --> 00:05:18,751
I could have touched it
without knowing what it was for.
103
00:05:18,785 --> 00:05:22,244
Can you explain to me, Joe, if
you've never been in the cellar,
104
00:05:22,289 --> 00:05:25,782
why your fingerprints are on
the inside of the cellar door?
105
00:05:25,826 --> 00:05:27,658
Right, right, right.
106
00:05:27,694 --> 00:05:33,065
Well, I say I've never been
in. I have been in there.
107
00:05:33,099 --> 00:05:36,661
I mean, I never went
down there regularly.
108
00:05:37,537 --> 00:05:39,335
For any purpose.
109
00:05:40,674 --> 00:05:43,166
Can you explain to me,
Joe, if that's the case,
110
00:05:43,210 --> 00:05:47,671
why your fingerprints are on both
bolts on the inside of the cellar door?
111
00:05:47,714 --> 00:05:49,114
I've never...
112
00:05:50,684 --> 00:05:51,708
They're not.
113
00:05:54,588 --> 00:05:55,988
I don't know.
114
00:05:59,659 --> 00:06:02,390
I have not been down in
that cellar, not for years.
115
00:06:02,429 --> 00:06:06,161
Well, fingerprints hang
around for a long time, Joe,
116
00:06:06,199 --> 00:06:07,997
if nobody wipes them off.
117
00:06:08,668 --> 00:06:10,159
You'd be surprised.
118
00:06:10,203 --> 00:06:14,368
So, can you explain to me why
you were locking yourself in the cellar,
119
00:06:14,407 --> 00:06:17,969
however many years ago it
was, the last time that you did it?
120
00:06:21,381 --> 00:06:24,442
Joe, why were you locking
yourself in the cellar?
121
00:06:24,484 --> 00:06:25,952
I'm not saying I was.
122
00:06:25,986 --> 00:06:29,855
No, Joe, I am. I'm saying that you
were locking yourself in the cellar,
123
00:06:29,890 --> 00:06:33,088
because why else would your
fingerprints be on both bolts?
124
00:06:33,126 --> 00:06:35,118
How could you be doing anything
125
00:06:35,161 --> 00:06:37,687
other than locking
yourself in the cellar?
126
00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:40,492
Joe?
127
00:06:45,272 --> 00:06:48,174
We also found, as I've
explained to you before,
128
00:06:48,208 --> 00:06:51,667
in the cellar, a mattress,
a double-sized mattress.
129
00:06:51,711 --> 00:06:54,237
Now, I've shown you a
picture of this mattress before.
130
00:06:54,281 --> 00:06:56,614
I'm going to show
it to you again now.
131
00:06:58,018 --> 00:07:00,249
You said that you
didn't recognise it.
132
00:07:02,622 --> 00:07:07,583
Do you still not recognise it, now
you've had time to think about it?
133
00:07:07,627 --> 00:07:12,531
Joe, can you explain to
me, if you don't recognise it,
134
00:07:12,565 --> 00:07:15,364
why it's got traces of
your semen all over it?
135
00:07:18,405 --> 00:07:20,033
Joe?
136
00:07:23,276 --> 00:07:24,403
Well...
137
00:07:25,612 --> 00:07:27,103
What?
138
00:07:27,747 --> 00:07:29,147
I might have...
139
00:07:30,250 --> 00:07:32,082
You might have what, Joe?
140
00:07:32,118 --> 00:07:35,748
Locked myself
in there to have...
141
00:07:39,159 --> 00:07:40,684
You know...
142
00:07:41,161 --> 00:07:42,720
Now and again.
143
00:07:42,762 --> 00:07:44,025
On the mattress?
144
00:07:44,631 --> 00:07:45,631
Yeah.
145
00:07:47,367 --> 00:07:50,132
OK. So, you locked
yourself in the cellar
146
00:07:50,170 --> 00:07:52,696
to go and masturbate
on this mattress?
147
00:07:52,739 --> 00:07:55,231
- Is that what you're telling me?
- Yeah.
148
00:07:55,275 --> 00:07:57,244
OK, Joe.
149
00:07:57,277 --> 00:07:58,836
You'll appreciate,
150
00:07:58,878 --> 00:08:01,438
given the nature of what
we found buried in the cellar,
151
00:08:01,481 --> 00:08:03,950
that everything else that we
found in there has been sent for
152
00:08:03,984 --> 00:08:06,715
every kind of forensic analysis
that we have available to us.
153
00:08:06,753 --> 00:08:09,120
And when this
mattress was analysed,
154
00:08:09,155 --> 00:08:12,284
not only did we find
your DNA in the semen,
155
00:08:12,325 --> 00:08:14,817
we also found traces
of blood on this mattress.
156
00:08:14,861 --> 00:08:17,763
So, can you explain to me, Joe,
157
00:08:17,797 --> 00:08:22,428
how the DNA from the blood traces
that were found on this mattress
158
00:08:22,469 --> 00:08:25,928
match exactly the DNA of four
of the seven young male adults
159
00:08:25,972 --> 00:08:28,032
that we found buried
under your cellar floor?
160
00:08:28,675 --> 00:08:30,667
She's good, isn't she?
161
00:08:30,710 --> 00:08:32,679
Well, she's trained.
162
00:08:34,314 --> 00:08:36,943
Joe, can you explain that to me?
163
00:08:39,552 --> 00:08:40,645
No.
164
00:08:40,687 --> 00:08:43,179
We got lucky with those stains.
165
00:08:43,223 --> 00:08:45,158
A cold, dry cellar.
166
00:08:45,191 --> 00:08:47,319
You don't get one
of them every day.
167
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,693
The head and the
hands are missing.
168
00:08:49,729 --> 00:08:53,689
The body was rolled in a
carpet and wedged, very wedged,
169
00:08:53,733 --> 00:08:55,599
sideways, between the joists.
170
00:08:55,635 --> 00:08:57,536
We'll have confirmation
from the lab tomorrow,
171
00:08:57,570 --> 00:09:02,338
but the remains, such as they are,
are those of a young female adult.
172
00:09:02,375 --> 00:09:05,038
- Sheila.
- Well, we'll see.
173
00:09:05,078 --> 00:09:06,546
Phil Cairns' statement?
174
00:09:06,579 --> 00:09:09,174
Still ploughing through the
files in the basement at DHQ.
175
00:09:09,215 --> 00:09:10,877
- Just you?
- Me and Becky.
176
00:09:10,917 --> 00:09:14,115
Can we assign one more officer
to looking for these documents?
177
00:09:14,154 --> 00:09:15,464
If this statement's
gone with the wind,
178
00:09:15,488 --> 00:09:17,286
I want to know sooner
rather than later.
179
00:09:17,323 --> 00:09:18,985
Sure.
180
00:09:19,025 --> 00:09:21,494
What we have had a bit of
luck this afternoon, ma'am.
181
00:09:21,528 --> 00:09:25,226
Now we're thinking we've
narrowed down the timescale.
182
00:09:25,265 --> 00:09:30,465
Stephen Norgrove, 17 years old,
reported missing October, 1974.
183
00:09:30,503 --> 00:09:32,734
Way up on our grid of possibles.
184
00:09:32,772 --> 00:09:36,971
We had South Yorks Police
visit his mother, she's in Sheffield,
185
00:09:37,010 --> 00:09:39,241
to take oral swabs,
which they've now done.
186
00:09:39,279 --> 00:09:40,770
But, what she also said,
187
00:09:40,814 --> 00:09:43,374
was the last time she spoke
to her son was on the phone.
188
00:09:43,416 --> 00:09:45,976
He'd gone to Manchester
looking for work
189
00:09:46,019 --> 00:09:48,113
and rang asking could
she send him some money.
190
00:09:48,154 --> 00:09:53,650
The address he gave to send
the postal order to, and she's 100%,
191
00:09:53,693 --> 00:09:57,095
it was the last time she spoke
to him, was in Peveril Street.
192
00:09:57,130 --> 00:09:58,928
Like he was lodging there.
193
00:09:58,965 --> 00:10:00,263
Have we fast-tracked the swab?
194
00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:02,292
Yeah, yeah. We should
have something tomorrow.
195
00:10:02,335 --> 00:10:03,963
Have we got his MFH file?
196
00:10:04,003 --> 00:10:06,615
There isn't one. His name came to
us from the Missing Persons Helpline,
197
00:10:06,639 --> 00:10:08,107
like most of them.
198
00:10:08,141 --> 00:10:12,010
We've now traced and swabbed
for DNA or in the process of doing,
199
00:10:12,045 --> 00:10:14,446
the parents or siblings
of 211 possibles,
200
00:10:14,481 --> 00:10:18,043
on the new shorter
grid, out of 467.
201
00:10:18,084 --> 00:10:20,679
And still no matches?
202
00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,020
Do we need to inform the
next of kin that it's Sheila?
203
00:10:24,057 --> 00:10:26,993
I mean, flag it up that
it's likely to be her?
204
00:10:28,595 --> 00:10:29,654
Helen?
205
00:10:29,696 --> 00:10:31,062
Oh, God, yes, of course.
206
00:10:31,097 --> 00:10:33,259
Um... Who's...
207
00:10:34,601 --> 00:10:36,069
Can you, Janet?
208
00:10:37,670 --> 00:10:40,799
Is she... Is... Where did
Witness Protection put her?
209
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,639
They didn't. I did. She's at
the Plaza Inn in Chadderton.
210
00:10:43,676 --> 00:10:46,578
We're paying for it. Well,
you are. The investigation is.
211
00:10:46,613 --> 00:10:47,945
Good.
212
00:10:47,981 --> 00:10:52,681
And Joe. Um... Let's wait for
definite confirmation of her ID.
213
00:10:52,719 --> 00:10:55,712
We'll tell him tomorrow, before you
carry on interviewing him, Rachel.
214
00:10:56,556 --> 00:10:57,819
Good. Thank you.
215
00:10:57,857 --> 00:10:59,587
Night-night. Off you go.
216
00:10:59,626 --> 00:11:02,323
I know it doesn't always
feel like we're moving forward,
217
00:11:02,362 --> 00:11:05,264
but, believe me, we
are. You're all marvellous.
218
00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:08,711
Except the little
death-wish tosser
219
00:11:08,735 --> 00:11:10,670
who's been talking to
the lovely journalists.
220
00:11:15,775 --> 00:11:17,607
Nice interview, by the way.
221
00:11:17,644 --> 00:11:18,907
- Yeah?
- Mmm.
222
00:11:18,945 --> 00:11:20,436
It'll be nicer when he coughs.
223
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,178
I was waiting for you
to ask him why he...
224
00:11:24,217 --> 00:11:25,708
What? Why he what?
225
00:11:25,752 --> 00:11:28,916
- Why he wanked on his mattress.
- Oh, shut up!
226
00:11:28,955 --> 00:11:30,787
"That's attractive,
Joe. But why?
227
00:11:30,823 --> 00:11:34,282
"No, really, why would
you? To make it smell better?
228
00:11:34,327 --> 00:11:38,025
"Or because you'd mistaken
it for a toilet or a tissue?"
229
00:11:38,831 --> 00:11:39,992
I'm not discussing it.
230
00:11:40,033 --> 00:11:42,002
He really hadn't
thought it through.
231
00:11:42,035 --> 00:11:43,230
Well, I hadn't.
232
00:11:43,269 --> 00:11:45,431
I mean... You're
right. Why would you?
233
00:11:45,471 --> 00:11:47,736
Well, you wouldn't.
I mean, we wouldn't.
234
00:11:47,774 --> 00:11:50,801
- Obviously, because we're ladies.
- Yeah, and we don't wank.
235
00:11:50,843 --> 00:11:51,936
We don't fart.
236
00:11:51,978 --> 00:11:53,844
We don't get drunk
and we don't swear.
237
00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,281
- Eh, have you rung Sean?
- Piss off.
238
00:11:56,849 --> 00:11:58,215
No, no.
239
00:11:58,251 --> 00:12:01,221
I'm not prying. You do what
you like. But four nights?
240
00:12:01,254 --> 00:12:04,782
He must think something, four
nights, and you don't go home.
241
00:12:04,824 --> 00:12:06,588
He doesn't own me.
242
00:12:06,626 --> 00:12:10,324
I want him to realise that and,
when he does, he might... bugger off.
243
00:12:12,398 --> 00:12:13,627
Sorry...
244
00:12:13,666 --> 00:12:16,966
Am I all right sleeping round
at your house tonight again?
245
00:12:17,003 --> 00:12:18,301
Yes.
246
00:12:24,844 --> 00:12:28,576
I rang her twice earlier and I texted
her, but I've heard nothing back.
247
00:12:31,918 --> 00:12:33,113
Helen?
248
00:12:34,687 --> 00:12:35,814
Er, no.
249
00:12:35,855 --> 00:12:38,324
I appreciate that. Thank you.
250
00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:41,159
Sorry to wake you...
251
00:12:42,462 --> 00:12:43,395
Oops.
252
00:12:43,429 --> 00:12:45,159
She's not back at Louise's.
253
00:12:45,198 --> 00:12:47,064
She's definitely
not checked out.
254
00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:48,864
- And you've not seen her?
- No.
255
00:12:48,901 --> 00:12:50,426
But I've only been
on since 7:00.
256
00:12:51,537 --> 00:12:52,630
We're police officers.
257
00:12:52,672 --> 00:12:54,231
You couldn't let
us into her room?
258
00:12:56,843 --> 00:12:58,038
Thank you.
259
00:12:59,012 --> 00:13:00,605
Helen? Helen...
260
00:13:00,647 --> 00:13:02,479
Oh, shit. Rach.
261
00:13:02,515 --> 00:13:04,950
Helen? Helen?
262
00:13:04,984 --> 00:13:07,078
Helen, can you hear me?
263
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,418
Helen, it's Rachel and Janet.
264
00:13:08,454 --> 00:13:10,616
Ambulance. Plaza
Inn, Chadderton.
265
00:13:10,657 --> 00:13:11,681
Helen?
266
00:13:11,724 --> 00:13:14,558
Um... I'm an off-duty
police officer, Janet Scott.
267
00:13:14,594 --> 00:13:16,085
Helen, can you hear me?
268
00:13:16,129 --> 00:13:20,624
Address, 20, Clough
Road, Oldham. OL5 9JK.
269
00:13:20,667 --> 00:13:22,226
Yeah, I've got a lady.
270
00:13:22,268 --> 00:13:25,238
She's unconscious.
She's taken an overdose.
271
00:13:25,271 --> 00:13:26,271
Shit.
272
00:13:30,943 --> 00:13:32,138
Oh, shit.
273
00:13:33,613 --> 00:13:35,377
Hello.
274
00:13:35,415 --> 00:13:36,542
Hi, it's me.
275
00:13:37,684 --> 00:13:39,277
Where are you?
276
00:13:39,319 --> 00:13:41,797
I had to bring somebody into hospital,
a witness, she's taken an overdose.
277
00:13:41,821 --> 00:13:45,781
So, I'm just ringing to say that I may
as well stay at Janet's again tonight.
278
00:13:45,825 --> 00:13:47,293
She's here, as well.
279
00:13:47,327 --> 00:13:48,570
God knows what time we're
going to be here till. So...
280
00:13:48,594 --> 00:13:50,187
Why are you stopping at Janet's?
281
00:13:50,229 --> 00:13:52,721
Because it's...
It's just easier.
282
00:13:52,765 --> 00:13:54,358
Janet's house is 10 minutes,
283
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,426
a quarter of an hour
max, from our house.
284
00:13:56,469 --> 00:13:58,314
You don't know how
knackered I get on a big inquiry
285
00:13:58,338 --> 00:13:59,648
and this is the
mother of all of them.
286
00:13:59,672 --> 00:14:00,696
I need to talk to you.
287
00:14:01,341 --> 00:14:02,400
What's it about?
288
00:14:03,009 --> 00:14:04,409
Us.
289
00:14:04,444 --> 00:14:05,468
This.
290
00:14:06,179 --> 00:14:07,442
Whatever's going on.
291
00:14:08,648 --> 00:14:13,484
Because... I'm... I'm
struggling here, Rachel.
292
00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:17,479
Um... You'd rather be sleeping in
a sleeping bag in the sitting room.
293
00:14:17,523 --> 00:14:19,253
And then you're
sleeping over at your...
294
00:14:20,093 --> 00:14:22,494
Friend's for four days.
295
00:14:22,528 --> 00:14:23,528
OK. Right.
296
00:14:24,130 --> 00:14:25,792
We'll talk tomorrow.
297
00:14:25,832 --> 00:14:27,460
Right. Not on the phone.
298
00:14:28,368 --> 00:14:29,631
I want you here.
299
00:14:29,669 --> 00:14:31,262
Right. Of course.
300
00:14:31,304 --> 00:14:32,636
I want to know what's up.
301
00:14:32,672 --> 00:14:34,231
Nothing's up.
302
00:14:34,273 --> 00:14:37,641
I'm just... I'm... I'm
just not used to...
303
00:14:38,244 --> 00:14:39,337
Oh, God.
304
00:14:39,379 --> 00:14:41,780
It's fine, it's fine.
Everything's going to be fine.
305
00:14:43,816 --> 00:14:45,717
I'm just a bugger to live with.
306
00:14:45,752 --> 00:14:47,778
I know that doesn't
make it any easier.
307
00:14:49,989 --> 00:14:51,457
I know I'm shit.
308
00:14:51,491 --> 00:14:53,323
I want to know what
time you're gonna be here.
309
00:14:53,359 --> 00:14:55,851
Well, I can't give
you a specific time.
310
00:14:55,895 --> 00:14:57,955
I want to know.
311
00:14:57,997 --> 00:15:01,126
Well, it depends on what
time Godzilla lets us go.
312
00:15:01,167 --> 00:15:02,465
So I'll text you. I'll text you.
313
00:15:02,502 --> 00:15:04,742
And I'll let you know what
a likely time is likely to be.
314
00:15:05,805 --> 00:15:07,000
All right?
315
00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:10,737
Why don't you just
come home tonight?
316
00:15:10,777 --> 00:15:13,269
After you've finished doing
whatever it is you're doing there.
317
00:15:16,983 --> 00:15:18,144
Eh?
318
00:15:19,252 --> 00:15:20,413
Yeah. All right. Fine.
319
00:15:21,020 --> 00:15:22,648
I'll be waiting.
320
00:15:22,688 --> 00:15:24,680
I've got to go, Sean.
Someone has just turned up.
321
00:15:26,359 --> 00:15:28,055
Hi, Louise. Thanks for coming.
322
00:15:28,094 --> 00:15:30,427
Is she going to be all right?
323
00:15:30,463 --> 00:15:32,625
I don't think she
was messing about.
324
00:15:32,665 --> 00:15:35,829
She's through there. My
colleague Janet, she's with her.
325
00:15:35,868 --> 00:15:37,029
She is conscious.
326
00:15:37,069 --> 00:15:38,435
They're doing some blood tests
327
00:15:38,471 --> 00:15:41,066
to assess if there's any
long-term damage to the liver.
328
00:15:41,107 --> 00:15:43,440
They know what they're
doing. She's in good hands.
329
00:15:59,926 --> 00:16:01,792
Hallelujah! Nice to see you.
330
00:16:01,828 --> 00:16:03,490
Oh... Whatever.
331
00:16:03,529 --> 00:16:05,054
Nice of you to pop in.
332
00:16:05,097 --> 00:16:07,817
Do you want to have this conversation
or shall I just walk out again?
333
00:16:10,036 --> 00:16:11,197
How's your witness?
334
00:16:14,140 --> 00:16:15,403
Yeah, she's gonna be fine.
335
00:16:15,441 --> 00:16:19,503
You know, I've not seen
you for four, five days.
336
00:16:19,545 --> 00:16:22,447
All I've had is
shitty, stupid texts.
337
00:16:22,482 --> 00:16:24,793
"Oh, I've had too much to
drink. Oh, I'm stopping at Janet's."
338
00:16:24,817 --> 00:16:26,046
For four nights?
339
00:16:27,420 --> 00:16:28,420
Basically...
340
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:33,382
I'd like to know
what's going on.
341
00:16:36,295 --> 00:16:37,295
OK.
342
00:16:39,665 --> 00:16:40,997
The thing is...
343
00:16:42,969 --> 00:16:44,301
This isn't working.
344
00:16:46,639 --> 00:16:49,040
And this isn't
your fault. This is...
345
00:16:50,376 --> 00:16:52,607
It's mine, it's my
fault, it's all my fault,
346
00:16:52,645 --> 00:16:53,765
I'm prepared to accept that.
347
00:16:54,580 --> 00:16:55,775
I'm not...
348
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:58,144
It's not...
349
00:16:59,385 --> 00:17:00,512
I mean, it's me.
350
00:17:00,553 --> 00:17:02,181
It's all me.
351
00:17:02,221 --> 00:17:04,349
I'm nuts. I'm
impossible. I just...
352
00:17:07,627 --> 00:17:09,255
I can't live like this.
353
00:17:10,029 --> 00:17:12,055
I love you to bits.
354
00:17:12,098 --> 00:17:15,125
Sean, you're
brilliant, you're great.
355
00:17:15,167 --> 00:17:17,966
You're the nicest man in the
world, but I just can't do this.
356
00:17:18,538 --> 00:17:19,471
24/7.
357
00:17:19,505 --> 00:17:21,406
I thought I could, but I can't.
358
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,342
No. No, I didn't
think I could, I didn't...
359
00:17:25,912 --> 00:17:27,403
I didn't think about it.
360
00:17:29,181 --> 00:17:31,275
Which I think is, um...
361
00:17:32,485 --> 00:17:33,612
Is...
362
00:17:36,956 --> 00:17:38,288
I can't do this.
363
00:17:44,764 --> 00:17:45,959
What...
364
00:17:46,999 --> 00:17:48,433
Specifically
365
00:17:49,235 --> 00:17:52,330
is it you can't do?
366
00:17:58,077 --> 00:17:59,477
I want to be on my own.
367
00:18:07,420 --> 00:18:11,118
- So then what happened?
- Well, he was upset, obviously.
368
00:18:12,558 --> 00:18:14,823
Then he said, "Why would
you want to do that to me?"
369
00:18:14,860 --> 00:18:16,624
This isn't about you.
370
00:18:16,662 --> 00:18:18,528
- It is about me!
- It's not.
371
00:18:18,564 --> 00:18:20,032
I'm here!
372
00:18:20,066 --> 00:18:23,161
I'm part of whatever's going
on inside your stupid brain!
373
00:18:23,202 --> 00:18:25,899
Because whatever
you do affects me!
374
00:18:25,938 --> 00:18:27,634
I've messed up. I'm sorry.
375
00:18:27,673 --> 00:18:31,110
I should have... I'm a mess.
And you deserve better.
376
00:18:31,143 --> 00:18:33,169
But we've only been
married five minutes.
377
00:18:33,212 --> 00:18:35,181
It's not your fault.
378
00:18:35,214 --> 00:18:38,981
I just don't get what's
going on inside your head.
379
00:18:39,018 --> 00:18:40,509
I just...
380
00:18:41,821 --> 00:18:43,084
Can't do this.
381
00:18:45,157 --> 00:18:47,388
I... I gave up my flat.
382
00:18:49,161 --> 00:18:50,925
You're...
383
00:18:50,963 --> 00:18:55,424
What were you thinking walking
down the aisle, saying the vows?
384
00:18:57,136 --> 00:19:00,129
- Nothing.
- All the money we've spent. Eh?
385
00:19:00,806 --> 00:19:02,069
I screwed up.
386
00:19:02,108 --> 00:19:03,440
You've screwed up?
387
00:19:05,811 --> 00:19:08,940
So... What do I do now?
388
00:19:08,981 --> 00:19:10,158
I don't know. Anything you like.
389
00:19:10,182 --> 00:19:12,777
What do you expect me to do now?
390
00:19:12,818 --> 00:19:14,480
Did you just say
anything I like?
391
00:19:16,055 --> 00:19:18,524
I don't even know what
this is about, Rachel.
392
00:19:18,557 --> 00:19:19,684
I need my flat back.
393
00:19:20,993 --> 00:19:22,393
I'm sorry?
394
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:26,028
You want me to move out?
395
00:19:28,267 --> 00:19:30,600
Well, I...
396
00:19:30,636 --> 00:19:33,606
Are you serious?
Are you serious?
397
00:19:36,275 --> 00:19:37,675
I'm not going anywhere.
398
00:19:45,918 --> 00:19:47,113
All right.
399
00:19:50,856 --> 00:19:52,051
What are you doing?
400
00:19:52,091 --> 00:19:53,389
Where are you going?
401
00:20:00,633 --> 00:20:01,692
Where are you going?
402
00:20:02,868 --> 00:20:04,336
It's the middle of the night!
403
00:20:04,937 --> 00:20:06,235
You're mad.
404
00:20:09,008 --> 00:20:11,375
You are mad! You do
know that, don't you?
405
00:20:12,545 --> 00:20:14,013
You mad bitch!
406
00:20:15,848 --> 00:20:17,976
Gosh. Well.
407
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:22,413
Blimey.
408
00:20:22,455 --> 00:20:24,219
- Shall I go and brush my teeth?
- Yeah.
409
00:20:27,660 --> 00:20:32,257
She's trouble, that one. I've told
you before. And we haven't got room.
410
00:20:32,298 --> 00:20:33,732
It'll resolve itself.
411
00:20:41,373 --> 00:20:42,397
Morning.
412
00:20:42,441 --> 00:20:44,307
What's that reckoned to be?
413
00:20:44,343 --> 00:20:46,778
Rachel. She smokes like this.
414
00:20:46,812 --> 00:20:48,110
Oh.
415
00:20:48,147 --> 00:20:50,707
Does she?
416
00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:54,084
Ma'am, DC Broadhurst just
called from DHQ. They've found it.
417
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:55,850
Phil Cairns'
statement from 1977.
418
00:20:55,888 --> 00:20:58,016
And the documents from
the subsequent inquiry.
419
00:20:58,057 --> 00:20:59,423
Yes!
420
00:20:59,458 --> 00:21:02,087
It's interesting, though.
It's dated July, 1977, so...
421
00:21:02,128 --> 00:21:05,064
- He didn't report it for seven months.
- Mmm.
422
00:21:05,097 --> 00:21:08,261
Have I got a driver outside? Ring
me as soon as you get that file.
423
00:21:14,373 --> 00:21:18,071
I can confirm that yesterday
the remains of a teenage girl
424
00:21:18,110 --> 00:21:20,045
were found in the property.
425
00:21:20,079 --> 00:21:21,445
And that, this morning,
426
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,474
we have identified them as the
remains of Sheila Anne Bevan,
427
00:21:25,518 --> 00:21:29,353
the eldest daughter of
Joseph and Eunice Bevan.
428
00:21:29,388 --> 00:21:32,381
I can also confirm that we
have now been able to identify
429
00:21:32,424 --> 00:21:35,986
one of the young adult males
found buried in the cellar,
430
00:21:36,028 --> 00:21:38,998
as Stephen James Norgrove,
431
00:21:39,031 --> 00:21:44,493
who was 17 years old and came
from the Attercliffe area of Sheffield.
432
00:21:44,537 --> 00:21:46,199
Thank you.
433
00:21:46,238 --> 00:21:48,950
Miss Zalinski, is it true that Helen
Bartlett was in hospital last night
434
00:21:48,974 --> 00:21:50,875
and that she'd
taken an overdose?
435
00:21:50,910 --> 00:21:53,778
Find out which news
organisation he's with.
436
00:21:53,813 --> 00:21:57,375
There will be a further bulletin
later on today. Thank you.
437
00:22:01,420 --> 00:22:05,653
They're fascinated with Helen,
aren't they? They want blood.
438
00:22:05,691 --> 00:22:08,525
Normally, all they want to know is
if we're any nearer charging anyone.
439
00:22:08,561 --> 00:22:10,860
- I am...
- I don't doubt for a second
440
00:22:10,896 --> 00:22:12,421
you're doing your best, Julie,
441
00:22:12,464 --> 00:22:14,490
but you've got
enough to worry about.
442
00:22:14,533 --> 00:22:18,493
I've tasked Professional Standards
to find out who this mole is.
443
00:22:18,537 --> 00:22:21,063
No one on your team will
even know it's happening.
444
00:22:24,109 --> 00:22:25,338
Hiya.
445
00:22:26,011 --> 00:22:27,604
I tell you what,
446
00:22:27,646 --> 00:22:30,514
this file with Phil Cairns'
statement in it is a museum piece.
447
00:22:30,549 --> 00:22:32,017
Yeah. Well, it will be.
448
00:22:32,051 --> 00:22:34,850
It's shameful, it's appalling.
449
00:22:34,887 --> 00:22:36,651
They... We, ha-ha,
450
00:22:36,689 --> 00:22:39,352
visited the house, they
had a look in the cellar.
451
00:22:39,391 --> 00:22:42,361
They asked a few
questions. They found nothing.
452
00:22:42,394 --> 00:22:44,625
That's it. He was
treated like some sort of
453
00:22:44,663 --> 00:22:47,497
deluded sexually-deviant
teenage time-waster.
454
00:22:47,533 --> 00:22:49,900
- That's going to have repercussions.
- Yeah.
455
00:22:49,935 --> 00:22:51,528
But does it implicate Joe Bevan?
456
00:22:51,570 --> 00:22:53,903
Oh, God, yeah, and
Eunice. Very much so.
457
00:22:53,939 --> 00:22:55,840
- What about Helen?
- Well...
458
00:22:55,875 --> 00:22:57,343
That's interesting.
459
00:22:58,544 --> 00:23:01,207
- How did she die?
- It's impossible to tell.
460
00:23:02,848 --> 00:23:04,339
Was it them?
461
00:23:04,383 --> 00:23:07,353
We don't know. We've
yet to link Joe, forensically,
462
00:23:07,386 --> 00:23:09,048
either with Sheila's death
463
00:23:09,088 --> 00:23:11,683
or with the bodies that were
buried in the cellar, but...
464
00:23:11,724 --> 00:23:14,489
We have no reason to think it
was anyone else, at the moment.
465
00:23:15,261 --> 00:23:18,493
Those two girls got convicted.
466
00:23:18,530 --> 00:23:21,500
Who had pushed that old woman
into the canal in the wheelie bin.
467
00:23:21,533 --> 00:23:25,026
- Yeah.
- Thirteen and fourteen years old.
468
00:23:27,206 --> 00:23:29,471
People think I know things.
469
00:23:30,175 --> 00:23:31,404
I didn't.
470
00:23:31,443 --> 00:23:33,412
I had no idea.
471
00:23:34,780 --> 00:23:37,113
Apart from Michael.
472
00:23:37,149 --> 00:23:39,050
We've had a few
nasty phone calls
473
00:23:39,852 --> 00:23:42,947
and a parcel through the door.
474
00:23:42,988 --> 00:23:46,755
We do need to ask you some more
questions, Helen, when you feel able,
475
00:23:46,792 --> 00:23:49,591
- down at Oldham.
- Can you not ask them here?
476
00:23:49,628 --> 00:23:51,995
It's an interview
we'd need to record.
477
00:24:09,048 --> 00:24:12,416
Ma'am, Stephen Norgrove's mother
and brother are downstairs with the FLO.
478
00:24:12,451 --> 00:24:14,477
They've just been shown
into the family room.
479
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:15,544
Thanks.
480
00:24:20,859 --> 00:24:22,293
You don't recognise him?
481
00:24:24,897 --> 00:24:27,093
His name is Stephen Norgrove.
482
00:24:27,132 --> 00:24:30,466
Steve? Steve Norgrove.
Does that ring any bells?
483
00:24:31,937 --> 00:24:36,705
He stayed at your house in
1974. He was 17 years old.
484
00:24:38,377 --> 00:24:39,902
We know he was at your house
485
00:24:39,945 --> 00:24:42,744
because his mother sent him
a postal order to your address.
486
00:24:42,781 --> 00:24:44,511
People came and went.
487
00:24:45,718 --> 00:24:47,482
It's a long time since.
488
00:24:51,357 --> 00:24:54,088
I want you to look
carefully. Think about it.
489
00:24:57,496 --> 00:25:00,159
We also know he was at
your house at some stage,
490
00:25:00,199 --> 00:25:03,033
because we found his
body buried in your cellar.
491
00:25:04,937 --> 00:25:06,462
I'd like to see him.
492
00:25:06,505 --> 00:25:11,136
What you need to understand,
Irene, is that what we found
493
00:25:11,910 --> 00:25:13,902
are remains.
494
00:25:13,946 --> 00:25:16,472
I saw Stephen
yesterday morning and...
495
00:25:16,515 --> 00:25:20,077
We say remains, rather
than a body, when we've...
496
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,088
Essentially, we've
found a skeleton.
497
00:25:22,121 --> 00:25:23,953
I know that, love.
498
00:25:23,989 --> 00:25:26,686
I still want to see him.
499
00:25:26,725 --> 00:25:28,250
Of course you do.
500
00:25:28,293 --> 00:25:31,263
I'm showing you another
photograph now, Joe.
501
00:25:31,997 --> 00:25:33,295
Do you recognise this lad?
502
00:25:35,701 --> 00:25:38,193
This photograph
was taken in 1976.
503
00:25:38,971 --> 00:25:40,564
His name is Phil Cairns.
504
00:25:40,606 --> 00:25:43,405
Does that mean anything
to you? Philip Cairns?
505
00:25:45,344 --> 00:25:48,246
Well, Mr Cairns came in
to see us a few days ago.
506
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,512
And he says you do know him.
507
00:25:51,550 --> 00:25:55,282
Do you remember meeting him
one evening near Piccadilly Station?
508
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,654
It was cold, it was January,
there was snow on the ground.
509
00:25:58,690 --> 00:26:00,124
It was 1977.
510
00:26:02,694 --> 00:26:05,254
Do you remember inviting
him back to your house?
511
00:26:05,998 --> 00:26:07,660
He had no money, nowhere to go
512
00:26:07,699 --> 00:26:11,329
and you offered him a bed
for a night and a bite to eat.
513
00:26:12,237 --> 00:26:13,535
Do you remember that?
514
00:26:17,176 --> 00:26:18,735
How would you respond, Joe,
515
00:26:18,777 --> 00:26:22,509
if I told you that Mr Cairns,
five days ago, came in here
516
00:26:22,548 --> 00:26:25,848
and told us that you
and your wife tied him up,
517
00:26:25,884 --> 00:26:29,343
fastened a belt round his head,
gagged him, stripped him naked
518
00:26:29,388 --> 00:26:32,051
and sexually assaulted him
over a period of several days?
519
00:26:32,091 --> 00:26:34,651
- He's a liar.
- I'm sorry?
520
00:26:36,028 --> 00:26:37,326
He's a liar.
521
00:26:39,498 --> 00:26:40,591
Are you all right, Joe?
522
00:26:43,102 --> 00:26:44,536
Has something upset you?
523
00:26:47,239 --> 00:26:49,367
What is it, Joe,
that's upset you?
524
00:26:55,948 --> 00:26:57,314
Perhaps we should take a break.
525
00:27:00,385 --> 00:27:03,480
No. I'd like to know
what has upset Joe.
526
00:27:03,522 --> 00:27:08,961
He's elderly, he's tired, he's
ill, he's upset about Sheila.
527
00:27:09,761 --> 00:27:11,195
I think he needs
to take a break.
528
00:27:16,468 --> 00:27:17,468
Yeah. Sure.
529
00:27:24,042 --> 00:27:25,738
- You should have pushed him.
- Yeah.
530
00:27:25,777 --> 00:27:28,679
- I'm not criticising you.
- No. I know. You're right.
531
00:27:28,714 --> 00:27:30,979
It's your call.
Essentially, we've got him.
532
00:27:31,016 --> 00:27:32,314
We haven't got him.
533
00:27:32,351 --> 00:27:34,616
It's all circumstantial,
even the mattress.
534
00:27:34,653 --> 00:27:36,383
You're right. I should
have pushed him.
535
00:27:36,421 --> 00:27:37,565
We've got two
eyewitness statements.
536
00:27:37,589 --> 00:27:38,989
- It's fine.
- From 40 years ago.
537
00:27:39,024 --> 00:27:41,584
We've got a
piss-head and a flake.
538
00:27:41,627 --> 00:27:44,222
No. It isn't fine.
539
00:27:44,263 --> 00:27:45,959
- I'm sorry. I shouldn't...
- Look...
540
00:27:45,998 --> 00:27:47,990
I'm having a bad time with Sean.
541
00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:49,793
Right.
542
00:27:49,835 --> 00:27:51,463
So I don't mess up interviews.
543
00:27:51,503 --> 00:27:53,904
- I'm not saying you did, Rachel.
- No, I am.
544
00:27:53,939 --> 00:27:55,999
I'm saying it.
545
00:27:56,041 --> 00:27:58,670
That wasn't an excuse.
546
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:59,871
About Sean. I just...
547
00:27:59,912 --> 00:28:02,507
- I just thought I'd mention it.
- OK.
548
00:28:04,983 --> 00:28:09,318
There are discrepancies. It's not
clear to me, from that statement,
549
00:28:09,354 --> 00:28:12,085
that he's implicating anyone
other than Joe and Eunice.
550
00:28:12,124 --> 00:28:15,185
He implicated Helen so unequivocally
when you interviewed him,
551
00:28:15,227 --> 00:28:19,130
he even named her, but he could
have got that from a newspaper.
552
00:28:19,164 --> 00:28:21,030
Here, it's vague.
553
00:28:21,066 --> 00:28:23,797
He mentions hearing
children's voices. Once.
554
00:28:23,835 --> 00:28:25,827
Not even necessarily
in the same room.
555
00:28:25,871 --> 00:28:29,035
He didn't see them. How
could he? He was blindfolded.
556
00:28:29,074 --> 00:28:31,305
- He's misremembered it.
- She's coming in, Helen.
557
00:28:31,343 --> 00:28:33,471
- She's following us on.
- Good.
558
00:28:33,512 --> 00:28:35,674
A fascinating bit
about how he escaped.
559
00:28:35,714 --> 00:28:38,707
Let's see what she has to
say, both about what's in here
560
00:28:38,750 --> 00:28:41,219
and what Phil Cairns
told us four days ago.
561
00:28:41,253 --> 00:28:43,051
And Rachel needs a
copy of all this, as well.
562
00:28:43,088 --> 00:28:44,522
How's it going?
563
00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:46,582
Uh... Yeah. I'm just
giving him half an hour.
564
00:28:46,625 --> 00:28:49,754
He got very upset when we kicked
off by arresting him for Sheila's murder.
565
00:28:49,795 --> 00:28:51,127
Kind of went
downhill from there.
566
00:28:51,163 --> 00:28:52,893
Upset? He's a
psychopath. Get over it.
567
00:28:52,931 --> 00:28:55,059
Yeah, I know. I just...
568
00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:57,695
- It seemed appropriate.
- Your call.
569
00:28:57,736 --> 00:29:00,262
Phil Cairns' statement,
will you make her a copy?
570
00:29:00,305 --> 00:29:01,305
Sure.
571
00:29:07,179 --> 00:29:09,148
Any developments?
572
00:29:10,249 --> 00:29:12,411
He pranged his patrol car.
573
00:29:12,451 --> 00:29:13,783
He texted me.
574
00:29:13,819 --> 00:29:15,412
'Cause, obviously,
that's my fault.
575
00:29:15,454 --> 00:29:18,754
Mmm. Telepathic kinesis. Is
there no end to your talents?
576
00:29:18,790 --> 00:29:22,090
You're missing the action, kids.
DNA match on two more bodies.
577
00:29:22,127 --> 00:29:25,529
Oh, and Helen Bartlett and her
mousey little girlfriend have turned up.
578
00:29:25,564 --> 00:29:28,033
I think I'd be bothering with
prostitutes and overdosing
579
00:29:28,066 --> 00:29:29,626
if I had to sleep
with that every night.
580
00:29:32,004 --> 00:29:33,165
Joke.
581
00:29:34,373 --> 00:29:36,205
Dodson's looking for you.
582
00:29:46,685 --> 00:29:51,316
Joe Bevan's solicitor is asking to
speak to the Senior Investigating Officer.
583
00:29:51,356 --> 00:29:55,054
- No, that's me.
- Yes, I know, ma'am, I was just...
584
00:29:55,093 --> 00:29:56,356
Do you know what it's about?
585
00:29:57,796 --> 00:29:59,765
No.
586
00:29:59,798 --> 00:30:03,963
- I'm Julie Dodson. This is DCI Murray.
- Superintendent.
587
00:30:08,674 --> 00:30:11,166
My client has indicated
he wants to confess
588
00:30:11,209 --> 00:30:15,544
to the murders of the boys,
men, you found buried in the cellar.
589
00:30:15,580 --> 00:30:17,606
He's written down
what he believes
590
00:30:17,649 --> 00:30:21,552
are the names of the five remaining
victims you discovered down there.
591
00:30:21,586 --> 00:30:23,748
He also wants to
make it clear, however,
592
00:30:23,789 --> 00:30:26,054
that he did not kill
Sheila, his daughter.
593
00:30:26,091 --> 00:30:28,253
He knows nothing about
what happened to her.
594
00:30:28,293 --> 00:30:30,762
And that he was
coerced and brainwashed
595
00:30:30,796 --> 00:30:33,356
into committing the
crimes by his wife Eunice.
596
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,528
Is he prepared to make
a statement to DC Bailey?
597
00:30:37,569 --> 00:30:38,730
- Yes.
- Now?
598
00:30:38,770 --> 00:30:39,999
Yes.
599
00:30:41,673 --> 00:30:43,471
He's called Phil Cairns.
600
00:30:44,443 --> 00:30:46,344
Philip Cairns.
601
00:30:46,378 --> 00:30:49,075
You'd have been 12 at the
time that he visited your house
602
00:30:49,114 --> 00:30:52,084
in Peveril Street, in
the January of 1977.
603
00:30:52,818 --> 00:30:54,309
OK.
604
00:30:54,353 --> 00:30:56,515
He was homeless.
He had no money.
605
00:30:56,555 --> 00:30:59,525
Joe, your dad, picked him
up near Piccadilly Station
606
00:30:59,558 --> 00:31:02,995
and offered him food
and shelter at your house.
607
00:31:03,028 --> 00:31:04,963
Was that normal at your house?
608
00:31:05,997 --> 00:31:08,125
People... lads...
609
00:31:08,166 --> 00:31:10,431
Came and went.
610
00:31:10,469 --> 00:31:12,461
I don't remember
any of their names.
611
00:31:12,504 --> 00:31:16,532
I told you, they never stayed long
and I never bothered with them.
612
00:31:16,575 --> 00:31:18,373
How would you react,
Helen, if I told you
613
00:31:18,410 --> 00:31:20,936
that Phil is telling us, and
this is partially corroborated
614
00:31:20,979 --> 00:31:25,007
by a statement that he made to
the police shortly after the event,
615
00:31:25,050 --> 00:31:27,144
that he was plied with
drink by your parents
616
00:31:27,185 --> 00:31:31,088
and, when he woke up, he'd been
stripped naked, bound and gagged,
617
00:31:31,123 --> 00:31:35,584
and was sexually assaulted over
several days in a darkened room
618
00:31:35,627 --> 00:31:39,155
and, during that time, he
heard children's voices?
619
00:31:44,636 --> 00:31:46,571
There was an incident.
620
00:31:46,905 --> 00:31:48,271
Go on.
621
00:31:49,608 --> 00:31:52,203
People came there.
622
00:31:52,944 --> 00:31:54,378
We knew that. For sex.
623
00:31:56,982 --> 00:31:58,382
There was always people.
624
00:31:58,417 --> 00:32:02,115
People paid for all
sorts of stuff, all the time.
625
00:32:06,124 --> 00:32:07,524
But, yeah.
626
00:32:09,494 --> 00:32:10,655
It could have been him.
627
00:32:11,563 --> 00:32:12,758
What could?
628
00:32:15,033 --> 00:32:17,366
One night... Right?
629
00:32:17,402 --> 00:32:18,631
We were in bed.
630
00:32:19,538 --> 00:32:21,370
And...
631
00:32:21,406 --> 00:32:23,875
Julie said, "There's
something in the cellar."
632
00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:25,343
And I... um...
633
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,011
We were kids. It could
have been when you said.
634
00:32:32,584 --> 00:32:34,075
Anyway she said...
635
00:32:37,656 --> 00:32:39,249
"It's making noises."
636
00:32:41,259 --> 00:32:43,353
She wanted to go and see.
637
00:32:43,929 --> 00:32:45,158
I didn't.
638
00:32:48,166 --> 00:32:50,397
She'd found out
where he kept the key.
639
00:32:50,869 --> 00:32:52,861
My dad...
640
00:32:52,904 --> 00:32:55,373
He didn't know we
knew. It was in a tin.
641
00:32:56,608 --> 00:32:59,237
On a shelf, under
the sink, in the kitchen.
642
00:33:01,146 --> 00:33:03,342
We weren't allowed
down there, ever.
643
00:33:06,785 --> 00:33:08,720
Anyway, they were both drunk.
644
00:33:09,754 --> 00:33:11,222
Pissed up to their eyeballs.
645
00:33:12,390 --> 00:33:14,518
Crashed out in the sitting room.
646
00:33:17,162 --> 00:33:19,290
We got this key.
647
00:33:20,665 --> 00:33:22,031
And we went down,
648
00:33:23,535 --> 00:33:24,628
into the cellar.
649
00:33:25,804 --> 00:33:28,774
We heard him whimpering.
650
00:33:30,041 --> 00:33:32,169
It was a man.
651
00:33:33,345 --> 00:33:35,712
Like an animal. It was...
652
00:33:38,383 --> 00:33:39,510
No clothes on.
653
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:42,454
We knew they did
654
00:33:42,487 --> 00:33:45,116
bloody weird
stuff, but this was...
655
00:33:45,156 --> 00:33:48,558
He was... Dirty, like
he'd been there...
656
00:33:52,597 --> 00:33:54,566
We ran back upstairs.
657
00:33:55,500 --> 00:33:57,628
But we couldn't sleep, it was...
658
00:34:01,907 --> 00:34:03,205
And then...
659
00:34:04,643 --> 00:34:06,612
A bit later...
660
00:34:07,979 --> 00:34:10,107
She went and got a knife.
661
00:34:10,749 --> 00:34:12,684
Out of the kitchen.
662
00:34:13,251 --> 00:34:14,275
Julie.
663
00:34:15,820 --> 00:34:17,948
And we went back down there.
664
00:34:18,890 --> 00:34:20,586
I stood on the stairs.
665
00:34:20,625 --> 00:34:23,618
The cellar stairs. I was
frightened, I couldn't go any further.
666
00:34:23,662 --> 00:34:27,895
I was frightened my dad would
find us and lock us in with him.
667
00:34:27,933 --> 00:34:29,458
She cut the rope.
668
00:34:30,468 --> 00:34:31,902
Julie.
669
00:34:31,937 --> 00:34:36,602
The rope that was tying his
hands behind his back and his legs
670
00:34:36,641 --> 00:34:39,338
were tied, too, but
then he started...
671
00:34:40,712 --> 00:34:44,080
Flailing around, trying to
get this thing off his face.
672
00:34:44,549 --> 00:34:46,984
And...
673
00:34:47,018 --> 00:34:49,613
We ran. We ran.
We ran back upstairs.
674
00:34:49,654 --> 00:34:50,815
I...
675
00:34:50,855 --> 00:34:52,551
Dropped the torch.
676
00:34:52,591 --> 00:34:56,153
We left the door open, because
we wanted him to run, too.
677
00:35:00,832 --> 00:35:02,596
Was that him?
678
00:35:02,634 --> 00:35:06,628
That would tie in with his description
of how he managed to get away, yes.
679
00:35:08,139 --> 00:35:09,334
Is that...
680
00:35:11,843 --> 00:35:14,438
What he did to the ones
you've found buried?
681
00:35:14,479 --> 00:35:16,846
There is some evidence
that's what happened.
682
00:35:16,881 --> 00:35:18,679
Oh, my God.
683
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:23,054
But not Michael? That wasn't...
684
00:35:23,088 --> 00:35:25,114
That was an accident.
685
00:35:25,156 --> 00:35:27,751
I'm afraid there's evidence
that is what happened to Michael
686
00:35:29,127 --> 00:35:32,359
and that it wasn't an accident.
687
00:35:32,397 --> 00:35:34,525
Oh, God.
688
00:35:34,566 --> 00:35:36,694
The bastard.
689
00:35:36,735 --> 00:35:39,705
I didn't know he'd done
that to other people.
690
00:35:43,274 --> 00:35:44,640
What about Sheila?
691
00:35:47,278 --> 00:35:49,543
Of course the most shocking
thing is not what they saw,
692
00:35:49,581 --> 00:35:51,550
it's the fact that they saw it.
693
00:35:51,583 --> 00:35:53,711
She might be adamant
that she had no idea
694
00:35:53,752 --> 00:35:55,414
other people were
buried down there.
695
00:35:55,453 --> 00:35:58,514
Even if we've got no
evidence to contradict that,
696
00:35:58,556 --> 00:36:00,388
the fact remains
that, as an adult,
697
00:36:00,425 --> 00:36:04,055
she knew someone had been
imprisoned and sexually tortured down there
698
00:36:04,095 --> 00:36:07,065
and that her brother had been
killed and buried down there.
699
00:36:07,098 --> 00:36:09,533
As an adult, anyone
in their right mind,
700
00:36:09,567 --> 00:36:12,264
must realise they have an
obligation to tell the police.
701
00:36:12,303 --> 00:36:13,896
- Not legally.
- Morally.
702
00:36:13,938 --> 00:36:15,634
Yeah, well, that's
not our bag, is it?
703
00:36:15,674 --> 00:36:18,508
- No one else died after Michael.
- We don't know that.
704
00:36:18,543 --> 00:36:20,388
All we know is no one
else was buried in the cellar.
705
00:36:20,412 --> 00:36:22,278
That's not entirely
the point, anyway.
706
00:36:22,313 --> 00:36:23,906
If she'd said something sooner,
707
00:36:23,948 --> 00:36:26,042
Irene Norgrove and
all these other parents,
708
00:36:26,084 --> 00:36:27,848
the ones who are still alive,
709
00:36:27,886 --> 00:36:30,754
people you're going to have some
pretty distressing conversations with,
710
00:36:30,789 --> 00:36:32,815
would have been able to
move on by now, years ago.
711
00:36:32,857 --> 00:36:36,555
Yes, but the fact also remains that
she did come forward, eventually.
712
00:36:36,594 --> 00:36:39,029
Voluntarily. Selflessly.
And, actually,
713
00:36:39,064 --> 00:36:40,828
look what's happened
to her since she did.
714
00:36:40,865 --> 00:36:44,324
People want blood. They've
put shit through her door.
715
00:36:46,471 --> 00:36:48,463
Do you think he did
murder other people?
716
00:36:48,506 --> 00:36:51,670
It's odd for someone
like that to just stop.
717
00:36:51,710 --> 00:36:53,406
- Er, Rob!
- Ma'am?
718
00:36:53,445 --> 00:36:55,141
Briefing room,
please, 10 minutes.
719
00:36:55,180 --> 00:36:56,657
Then I think we've all
earned a decent night's sleep
720
00:36:56,681 --> 00:36:58,411
in the light of today's
little breakthrough.
721
00:36:58,450 --> 00:36:59,850
Are you still going
to ask the CPS
722
00:36:59,884 --> 00:37:01,629
to drop the unlawful burial
charges against Helen?
723
00:37:01,653 --> 00:37:04,122
They won't. I've
had the conversation.
724
00:37:04,155 --> 00:37:07,250
The only thing I can do is
fast-track it and ask for leniency.
725
00:37:08,259 --> 00:37:10,057
I'm not convinced he
didn't murder Sheila.
726
00:37:10,095 --> 00:37:12,621
I don't think any
of us are, are we?
727
00:37:12,664 --> 00:37:13,723
He's playing games.
728
00:37:13,765 --> 00:37:16,564
Well, yeah, of course
he is, he's a psychopath.
729
00:37:16,601 --> 00:37:19,833
So, essentially, he's
blaming Eunice for everything.
730
00:37:19,871 --> 00:37:21,203
I did remind
him that, initially,
731
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,970
he blamed Eunice and Helen
and Julie for Michael's death.
732
00:37:24,008 --> 00:37:25,306
But...
733
00:37:25,343 --> 00:37:27,539
Well, so this is what
we're wondering.
734
00:37:27,579 --> 00:37:30,208
He knows that we've got
irrefutable forensic evidence
735
00:37:30,248 --> 00:37:31,580
against him on Eunice, right.
736
00:37:31,616 --> 00:37:34,711
So, if he can blame
Eunice for everything,
737
00:37:34,753 --> 00:37:39,191
coercing him, forcing him, brainwashing
him, whatever, into doing things,
738
00:37:39,224 --> 00:37:42,285
then, A, he can claim
diminished responsibility
739
00:37:42,327 --> 00:37:44,159
for murdering the
seven boys in the cellar,
740
00:37:44,195 --> 00:37:48,132
and, B, he can claim the same when
he goes to court for murdering Eunice.
741
00:37:48,166 --> 00:37:52,536
He can claim he ended the life of
this woman who bullied him for years,
742
00:37:52,570 --> 00:37:56,200
this woman who was evil enough
to murder her own daughter.
743
00:37:56,241 --> 00:37:57,937
Who'd believe him?
744
00:37:57,976 --> 00:38:00,207
- A jury.
- A doddery little old man.
745
00:38:00,245 --> 00:38:02,111
A bleeding-hearts-brigade jury.
746
00:38:02,147 --> 00:38:04,309
We've got to wait for
something from the lab on Sheila.
747
00:38:04,349 --> 00:38:05,977
What if there isn't anything?
748
00:38:07,886 --> 00:38:09,479
Right!
749
00:38:09,521 --> 00:38:12,548
Well done. There's a drink
waiting for everyone over the road.
750
00:38:16,094 --> 00:38:17,187
What do you want?
751
00:38:17,228 --> 00:38:19,322
- Lager?
- No. Bitter. Two bitters.
752
00:38:20,498 --> 00:38:21,591
Rachel!
753
00:38:29,307 --> 00:38:32,243
This had better be good.
Bringing my bloody mother?
754
00:38:32,277 --> 00:38:34,769
I didn't bring her. She was
here. I didn't want her here.
755
00:38:34,813 --> 00:38:36,782
You just turned up and
she was already here?
756
00:38:36,815 --> 00:38:38,215
Yeah.
757
00:38:38,249 --> 00:38:39,308
I don't believe you.
758
00:38:39,350 --> 00:38:41,581
Well, whatever, it's
irrelevant. Look...
759
00:38:41,619 --> 00:38:44,248
I'm not stopping. I
just wanted to say...
760
00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:47,056
I know you're mad.
761
00:38:47,091 --> 00:38:49,026
You are mad, but...
762
00:38:50,428 --> 00:38:53,330
Look, I'm not prepared to accept
763
00:38:53,364 --> 00:38:59,600
that this can possibly have gone so
wrong so quickly, because it hasn't.
764
00:38:59,637 --> 00:39:03,472
It's all in your head. You're feeling
trapped and you don't need to.
765
00:39:05,743 --> 00:39:07,336
And when you realise that...
766
00:39:09,814 --> 00:39:11,214
Then you know where I'll be.
767
00:39:14,352 --> 00:39:16,446
Just call me.
768
00:39:28,533 --> 00:39:31,128
- Evening, cowboy.
- What...
769
00:39:32,804 --> 00:39:34,033
What are you doing here?
770
00:39:34,072 --> 00:39:37,509
Nothing. I was just, um...
771
00:39:37,542 --> 00:39:40,410
Well, I pop in now and again.
It's the only time I get to see...
772
00:39:41,412 --> 00:39:42,311
Fanny Alice.
773
00:39:42,347 --> 00:39:44,578
Yeah. Is it?
774
00:39:44,616 --> 00:39:46,744
- What are you drinking?
- No, no, I'm fine.
775
00:39:46,784 --> 00:39:51,222
Uh... You couldn't lend
me a few quid, could you?
776
00:39:51,256 --> 00:39:53,521
- How do you mean?
- For a drink.
777
00:39:54,459 --> 00:39:55,552
Say...
778
00:39:56,761 --> 00:39:57,854
40 quid?
779
00:39:57,896 --> 00:40:00,195
- 40 quid?
- For a taxi.
780
00:40:00,698 --> 00:40:02,826
You know. Later.
781
00:40:02,867 --> 00:40:04,460
Oh, well, I would, but...
782
00:40:04,502 --> 00:40:06,994
Eh, do you remember that night?
783
00:40:07,839 --> 00:40:09,307
Yeah.
784
00:40:09,340 --> 00:40:12,833
God, that bitch of a son of
a bitch of a policewoman!
785
00:40:12,877 --> 00:40:14,539
She's just standing over there.
786
00:40:14,579 --> 00:40:19,677
So if you could just see your way
to lending me a few bob, then, Pete...
787
00:40:19,717 --> 00:40:22,243
I'll... Hit the road.
788
00:40:27,725 --> 00:40:29,023
Right. Right.
789
00:40:33,765 --> 00:40:35,996
There's 30 quid.
That's all I've got on me.
790
00:40:36,034 --> 00:40:37,195
Ta.
791
00:40:38,703 --> 00:40:40,501
How are you keeping, anyway?
792
00:40:40,538 --> 00:40:41,597
Yeah, good.
793
00:40:41,639 --> 00:40:45,474
Right. Well, I'll be loving
you and leaving you, then.
794
00:40:46,811 --> 00:40:48,040
Yeah.
795
00:40:56,187 --> 00:40:57,780
Come to Daddy, you little sod.
796
00:41:01,592 --> 00:41:05,051
- Do you want a lift home?
- Oh! Hello, love!
797
00:41:11,536 --> 00:41:12,765
I'm driving you home.
798
00:41:21,879 --> 00:41:23,313
She's got him!
799
00:41:24,615 --> 00:41:25,674
We got him.
800
00:41:26,818 --> 00:41:27,979
- She got him.
- What?
801
00:41:28,019 --> 00:41:29,510
- Just now.
- What's up.
802
00:41:29,554 --> 00:41:32,046
Oh, it was poetry. You
could not have invented it.
803
00:41:32,090 --> 00:41:34,650
- It was just one of those moments.
- Where's Mrs Dodson?
804
00:41:34,692 --> 00:41:35,803
- What happened?
- We've got him.
805
00:41:35,827 --> 00:41:37,796
- She's with Karen Zalinski.
- He did that thing.
806
00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:39,695
- What thing?
- That stupid thing.
807
00:41:40,832 --> 00:41:43,358
It's a mystery to me how
she could have done that.
808
00:41:44,202 --> 00:41:46,137
Butchered her own daughter.
809
00:41:46,170 --> 00:41:49,538
I said, "How do you
mean, Joe, butchered?"
810
00:41:49,574 --> 00:41:51,907
And he said,
"Cutting her head off."
811
00:41:51,943 --> 00:41:55,641
So, I said, "Well, I never told you
that anyone cut her head off, Joe."
812
00:41:56,914 --> 00:41:59,611
And then that look, that thing
that goes across their eyes.
813
00:41:59,650 --> 00:42:01,915
When they realise they've
just put their foot right in it
814
00:42:01,953 --> 00:42:05,185
and you've got them and they
know they're going down forever.
815
00:42:05,223 --> 00:42:08,921
And that's when he called me...
It rhymes with stunt, runt, brunt.
816
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,589
Let this be a lesson to you all.
817
00:42:11,629 --> 00:42:14,098
Psychopaths, clever,
but never as bloody clever
818
00:42:14,132 --> 00:42:16,124
as they like to think
they are. Well done, kid.
819
00:42:16,167 --> 00:42:19,365
Oh, I did nothing. I was in
the right place at the right time.
820
00:42:20,271 --> 00:42:21,603
Which makes a change.
821
00:42:37,555 --> 00:42:39,649
What's odd is that
he ever stopped.
822
00:42:39,690 --> 00:42:42,990
Or appeared to. That's what
we couldn't work out yesterday.
823
00:42:43,027 --> 00:42:45,792
- No. It's not that odd.
- No, it is.
824
00:42:45,830 --> 00:42:49,961
Psychopaths. They just carry on
pushing the envelope, taking risks.
825
00:42:50,001 --> 00:42:53,403
That's generally how they end up
making a mistake. They get complacent.
826
00:42:53,438 --> 00:42:55,049
Who have you been having
that conversation with?
827
00:42:55,073 --> 00:42:57,668
Eh... Dodson. Gill. Pete.
828
00:42:57,708 --> 00:42:59,472
What?
829
00:42:59,510 --> 00:43:03,311
He was beaten up in
October 1977, like, really badly.
830
00:43:03,347 --> 00:43:05,816
I read his medical records.
831
00:43:05,850 --> 00:43:07,580
God, I'm amazed
that nobody else has.
832
00:43:08,219 --> 00:43:09,983
He was hospitalised.
833
00:43:10,021 --> 00:43:13,219
Fractured skull, fractured
pelvis, a broken arm, broken nose,
834
00:43:13,257 --> 00:43:14,623
mashed-up scrotum.
835
00:43:14,659 --> 00:43:17,686
I mean, someone kicked the
shit out of him, like, literally.
836
00:43:18,896 --> 00:43:20,558
I'd like to think it
was Phil Cairns.
837
00:43:20,598 --> 00:43:22,409
Only I don't want to
embarrass him by asking him.
838
00:43:22,433 --> 00:43:24,959
You're so clever, aren't you?
839
00:43:25,002 --> 00:43:28,268
I'm telling you, you'll be
calling me ma'am one day.
840
00:43:28,306 --> 00:43:31,640
Yeah. You're going to have to pass
your sergeant's exams first, though, eh.
841
00:43:32,009 --> 00:43:33,238
Oh!
842
00:43:33,277 --> 00:43:35,678
- You're so funny, Janet.
- Yep.
843
00:43:38,416 --> 00:43:40,351
I tell you what, I'm not
looking forward to this.
844
00:43:45,089 --> 00:43:46,318
Hello.
845
00:43:46,357 --> 00:43:49,452
Louise, it's Janet and
Rachel from the MMP.
846
00:43:49,494 --> 00:43:50,723
Can we come in?
847
00:43:53,564 --> 00:43:54,564
Helen.
848
00:43:56,134 --> 00:43:58,262
- How are you feeling?
- I'm all right.
849
00:43:59,704 --> 00:44:01,195
Do you want to sit down?
850
00:44:02,974 --> 00:44:04,203
Why?
851
00:44:06,978 --> 00:44:08,674
I'm sorry to have to tell you
852
00:44:08,713 --> 00:44:12,013
that you are being formally charged
with preventing a lawful burial.
853
00:44:12,416 --> 00:44:13,440
But...
854
00:44:13,985 --> 00:44:15,214
No. Hang on.
855
00:44:15,253 --> 00:44:17,586
We had an understanding.
We had a deal.
856
00:44:17,622 --> 00:44:20,524
I know. I'm sorry.
We did what we could.
857
00:44:20,558 --> 00:44:23,357
I did explain that we
couldn't make any guarantees.
858
00:44:23,394 --> 00:44:26,125
It's a decision that's
been taken over our heads.
859
00:44:30,234 --> 00:44:32,465
- Do you want to get your coat?
- Fuck you.
860
00:44:33,271 --> 00:44:35,365
No. I mean, really.
861
00:44:35,406 --> 00:44:37,705
- Fuck you!
- Helen! Helen!
862
00:44:41,879 --> 00:44:43,006
OK.65682
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