Original subtitles

This guy approaches me.

I didn't want to have a relationship with him, and he convinced me.

He perfected the art of manipulating

people into doing and getting what he wanted.

Just drop him. He's not a good man. You can't trust him.

She can't escape him, that is a glaring red flag right there.

I saw this video of me sleeping, with my hands tied up, in bed.

And he was next to me.

He recorded me for an hour, completely vulnerable,

completely out of it.

How did he manipulate her into completely erasing

everything that she was before?

Little did I think that he would actually get bail given

the evidence that I had.

You aren't going to get rid of me.

That's not how this works.

I'm in control.

This person never loved me.

This person is a psychopath.

He could kill me.

PHONE BUZZES AND CHIMES

I was a pastry chef,

and I studied in London in 2012,

and I fell in love with the city.

The fact that there are so many different cultures in one city.

Uh, I personally love the weather.

And when I came back in 2017 to do a diploma in culinary management,

that's when I decided that I wanted to move here to start my business,

which is a food travel business

that offers culinary experiences around Europe.

She was, like the life of the...

..the life of the party.

When she was in the room, she was like

so, like, magnetic to people.

I've always been very happy

and very optimistic about life and my passions.

Pretty much I had my dream job living in my dream city.

Being back here is...

I mean, this is the starting point of when I met Hubert.

Just the fact that I met him here, um...

..still gives me the chills.

I was standing by the bar as my friend was talking to someone.

And I was just waiting there, I was ready to leave.

And this guy approaches me, and he's not attractive.

And he asked like, "Can I speak with you?"

And because I was alone and bored, I said, OK.

I'm not going to be rude for no reason.

He kept asking questions.

He kept trying to get to know me, but it was a quick encounter,

that's all I can remember, really.

And I was just about to go

and he said, "Wait. Can I have your number?

"The only thing is my phone has run out of battery,

"so I'll have to remember it by heart."

So, I'm like, in other circumstances,

I would never have given my number to him.

But because we were in a loud pub with loud music,

um, he had no phone to write my number down.

I was just like, there's no way he'll remember it.

So, I said it really quickly and only once.

And I said, "That's it. Bye."

At this point, there are no particular signs of a red flag.

It's just one of those encounters

and you just brush it off and keep moving.

But later that night, he actually messaged me.

PHONE BEEPS He basically said that, "Oh,

"I was supposed to stay with a friend tonight,

"but I got locked out."

PHONE BEEPS For me, it was a no-brainer.

Like, no good luck.

He was a bit insistent.

PHONE BEEPS

Which I ignored.

I was in Italy travelling for work for a week,

and I got a WhatsApp message, which was different.

The first time he texted me was from a SMS, so I couldn't see a photo.

Then I was excited because I thought,

"Oh, this...this guy seems nice."

He actually invited me for a drink

and I was looking forward to seeing him.

I didn't know it was him to begin with.

He said, "Oh, you really like this place."

And I said, "What do you mean?

"This is the first time we come here."

He then realised that I thought he was someone else and that's

when I realised that it was him.

I felt guilty, I felt bad for him.

When he stormed out, I was just like, "Ooh," you know,

but I didn't go after him.

I actually went to the restroom and when I came back,

he was holding hands with another girl.

So, I'm just like, "Goodbye.

"Don't text me ever again. I'm not interested."

So she has already displayed really that she is not that interested,

he's not really her type,

but what he then does is he starts his,

really harassment more than anything,

this persistent nature.

PHONE CHIMES

This kind of insistence

of contacting her.

I want to say sorry, I want to apologise is...

..is an emotional manipulation of her.

And I would say that red flags

are beginning to emerge.

Looking back at it now, I don't understand how it was

possible for me to even continue a conversation with him.

And that's kind of his attraction.

The way that he manages to keep you open to talking to him.

He just sent...just showered me with a wave of compliments.

I just thought, "Wow, he was really keen."

You know, perhaps I maybe should give him a chance.

He texted me saying he wanted to come and see me

just to talk with me.

So, he came over and he saw that we had a piano in the flat.

He's like, "Oh, my God, you have a piano! Can I play?"

And I said, "Absolutely, go for it."

And that's when I started finding him

actually really interesting because I really like music.

SLOW PIANO NOTES

I've always admired people

who are in any way artistic.

So, he played piano, and I was just shocked

cos, actually, he played my favourite Chopin music.

Perhaps what we're beginning to see is the beginning of wearing

those rose-tinted glasses.

This could be something.

I was impressed by how much he wanted to get to know me,

so he was asking me questions about my family, my background,

what did I like, what did I fear?

The things that he said about me made me think,

"Wow, this person has a very good perception of people.

"He can read people very well because he's describing me,

"and I haven't even told him about me."

If you put yourself in Juliana's position, you have somebody here

who asks you lots of things about yourself, who seems really into you.

All these elements are incredibly attractive

because what that's done is put you front and centre and made you

the most interesting, charismatic, attractive person to them.

And that's, I think, when you start to fall for somebody.

All your emotions now are beginning to become ignited.

I always felt like I was learning something new when I was around him.

He seemed very smart,

and he seemed like he had so much emotional intelligence.

At one point you start getting attached and he used a lot of...

His love bombing wasn't just words, it was touch.

He would hug me.

Erm, he would hold hands with me.

He would sleep holding hands with me.

And you don't realise how much the body gets accustomed to that,

and misses that, and needs that.

And so, when I wouldn't see him,

it was like I was having withdrawals from being with him.

And I would say to him, "Hubert, I think you're my drug."

Like, "I'm getting attached," you know?

And, at the same time, I didn't want to have a relationship with him,

and he convinced me, "Oh, let's just give it a try,"

er, which I eventually agreed to.

He would either text me or call me,

crying, asking for help, saying, "I'm too drunk.

"I want to see you."

And I would be like, "He needs help."

And he would usually do it between 2-3am in the morning.

These messages and calls got so constant that, after a time,

I would just wake up at that time.

And I felt this anxiety and worry about him, like,

"Oh, my God, is he OK?"

So, I just thought he genuinely needed the money.

He said that he was cycling home drunk,

and he cycled into a wall,

a brick wall.

And I'm just like,

"Clearly, you were punched in the face by someone."

He's like, "Is there any chance you could give me some money for food?"

Like, "I can't go outside like this," you know?

And I said, "I'm not sending you money."

And I later found out that he also sent that photo

to many people asking for help.

Basically, it was just money for drugs.

That is a screaming red flag in itself.

Substance abuse in any level is not OK.

And certainly, in this instance where he is lying to her about

why he needs this money.

My flatmates and I had a cleaner that would come.

And I realised that, in my toiletry bag,

there was an empty bag of coke.

I texted her and I said, "This is not mine.

"Where did you find this?"

And she said that it was under the bathroom mat.

Erm, and that's when I realised it was his.

I was just so angry.

I told him, "I do not want any kind of drug like that in my house.

"I don't want to see you any more ever again."

I couldn't shake him off me.

Something has gone very badly wrong in that dynamic.

And now, what you've got there is that it's a power play -

and she is in the one-down position.

One day, he was texting, and I could see he was visibly upset.

And he kept receiving messages from someone.

And I could see the name, who it was.

PHONE CHIMES

And I said, "Is everything OK?"

And he said, "Yeah, yeah, I just don't..."

He said, "I don't want to talk about it."

And he went to the bathroom,

and he was in the bathroom texting.

So, I was just like, "What the hell is going on?"

I decided to text that person.

I went on his Facebook.

And she's like, "Oh, yes, I'm his girlfriend -

"one of his girlfriends."

And I'm just like, "What?"

I thought I was his girlfriend.

she basically said, "Oh, it's not the first time he's done that.

"He's been in a relationship with three different girls."

Oh, my God, this is not the first time this person does that.

He's a proper creep.

Like, this guy's crazy.

So, yeah, they broke up with him,

and I straight away broke up with him, as well.

And he, again, continued to pursue me.

This kind of insistence of contacting her is

an emotional manipulation of her, because she's worn down.

And maybe, at this point in time, she's thinking,

"If I just give in and let him come around and apologise,

"it will be over, and I can just get back to my normal life."

And that's when he knocked at my door and said,

"I got you tickets to watch the Cinderella Ballet.

"Would you want to come with me as friends?"

I was so excited to come.

This was the first time that I wouldn't have to pay for something

when we went out.

I said, "Well, maybe he'll change. Maybe he does care about me.

"Maybe he wants to make me happy."

When I met him here, he said that he's supposed to be working.

And so, it just felt like we were doing something wrong,

I got conned into paying for dinner.

He tried to get me to pay for drinks for his manager and his wife,

which I refused to.

He went back to the bar and tried to use a card

that he had found here while he was working.

That is a glaring red flag right there.

He is now committing crime to live this lifestyle

that he is lying to people about.

Juliana doesn't leave at this moment.

Why? I'm not sure.

It just goes to show how much he has got her hooked.

I was constantly in an anxious state of despair, really,

erm, not feeling safe,

not feeling taken care of.

It was horrible.

I felt like I had no way out.

I felt like he was just dragging me down.

When she first told me about him, that I remember,

was when I came to London for a visit.

It was after she found out that he was doing drugs,

and he was still in a sort of relationship with his ex-girlfriend.

"Just drop him. He's not a good man.

"You can't trust him.

"Obviously, he lies, he manipulates.

"Just drop him."

And I thought she would do that.

She never had the problem to detach from someone

who was not good for her.

And...I told her I would.

And I didn't.

He perfected the art of manipulating people into doing

and getting what he wanted.

I don't know if he used neuro-linguistics programming

for that, or hypnosis for that.

He was able to move on and

distract me with something else very easily.

And somehow, you'd be like,

"No, this is not OK."

And when you see you're not even talking about it any more,

and it's...I can't even connect it.

It was just...

I don't even know how to tell you this.

Whenever I would indicate that I didn't want to see him any more,

then he would be very emotional

and threaten to kill himself.

He has spotted that she really cares about other people.

She's kind, she's empathic,

and she would do anything to support and help him.

"I'm OK, you're not OK, and I can help you."

He's being so vulnerable.

Like, he's trusting me with his issues,

so I felt like I had a purpose, and I needed to help him.

And I think that was the biggest hook.

There is a sense that all is not well

on a logical part of her brain.

But she may at this point have started selecting out information

that would help her and replacing it with,

"But I'm attracted to this person, and he seems really helpless,

"and I need to help him."

So, he has used every single one of her strengths against her.

A flatmate left her credit card on the table,

and I said, "Put it away, don't leave it here."

Because I knew that he was using a card he found at his job

at the Royal Albert Hall to try to pay for drinks.

"And I'm not entirely sure he wouldn't take your card and use it."

Which, looking back now, is just like...

..is that a major red flag?

They said, "Look, if you don't even trust this person having

"a credit card around, lying around in the house,"

like, "we don't want him around."

She is having to choose between her boyfriend and her friends.

Anyone on the outside looking in,

you would know which side you would take in that situation.

But he has got her that gripped.

Unwittingly, all these friends have done is pushed her

even more to him.

Dangerous.

He messaged me asking if he could stay with me just a couple of days,

because he said he was homeless.

And I told him, "No.

"You know that my flatmates don't allow you here any more."

And he basically insisted, saying, "I don't have anywhere to go.

"I'm going to have to sleep on the streets if you don't."

So, I told him, "OK, but we have to go to my place

"once everyone's asleep,

"and you have to leave before everyone wakes up,

"so they don't know that you're there."

This location brings a lot of memories because of the day that

we spent hours in the cold

just waiting for my flatmates to fall asleep.

I felt absolutely horrible.

My anxiety was through the roof.

I just wanted to go home, and I couldn't.

And it felt like a nightmare.

In the morning, when I went out for a walk,

he just purposely went to the bathroom and waited

until they were awake,

so that they would know that he was inside

when he opened the door.

"We can see you dying in front of us."

"The spark has gone, the...

"..optimism and, you know, the energy that you had is gone."

And the funny thing was that I was constantly saying,

"I don't want to be with him.

"I need help."

And I did seek help, like, psychological help.

And then, he calls her "arrogant"

to decide that she knows what's best for another human being.

But what is key in this is they're having this debate,

and then, a minute passes,

and it's just a complete flip.

"I miss you. I wish I could kiss you."

Sad face emojis.

"Every day, I have to try not to text you."

OK.

Wh-Why is he verbalising this to her?

To make her feel sorry for him?

From her flatmate's point of view,

they are not involved with him.

They can dispassionately see what's going on.

I thought that if they got to know him,

if they gave him a chance,

that they would see the good in him that I saw,

which was pretty much potential.

I thought, "Wow, this person can do something of himself

"if he gets his life in order."

And he would play on me, saying,

"You're the only person that can help me get my life in order.

"I need you."

They can tell what's happening to her.

But she's justifying it to herself because, at this point,

I think she's become dependent on him,

as the centre of her world,

and someone she really wants to help.

He put himself in a situation where he would be found out by

my flatmates on purpose,

so that I would have to move into a new one by myself -

which meant then, he would have a new place to stay.

Oh, they were angry.

To be honest, I was ashamed, as well.

So, I was just like, "I gotta go."

She's also now becoming isolated from her support network -

which, interestingly, is exactly his strategy.

That's what he wants her to do,

so that she's now emotionally reliant on him,

so that he can manipulate her any which way he likes.

They helped me to the point where they could help me.

They didn't know what else to do.

And, because I wasn't being honest with them,

because I was hiding him from them,

how could they help me?

So, I don't blame them.

He was living off me.

Pretty much, I was his golden ticket.

He wasn't paying rent.

He wasn't, you know, paying for food for anything.

I felt so frustrated that I was basically taking care of him.

We know that there are times that the victims will try

and stand up for themselves.

That inner part of them will be screaming, you know,

"Run, don't do it, leave them."

But, because these people, these suspects are so good

at what they do, they will gaslight that situation,

make it their fault.

She's trauma-bonded to him now.

Sometimes, this person is lovely and gives you lots of compliments,

and is charming and caring for you.

And then, they withdraw it, and then, they're cold

and they're distant.

And what does that do to a person?

It makes them run after them again.

I would feel bad turning him away.

I generally was afraid that something bad would happen to him.

I'm a good friend of Juliana's.

I've chosen to remain anonymous.

I believe that Hubert is a very dangerous individual.

He was deeply disturbed as a person.

He always shifted the blame,

made himself out to be the victim.

He used to send pictures,

send videos of himself where he is crying,

where he's upset.

He would also often say that he was going to kill himself.

So, all of these manipulation tactics to

invoke somebody's sympathy.

Look at all the boundaries he has pushed up until this moment,

and he's been able to win her back.

I genuinely think at this point, he knows he's not going anywhere.

He knows that she now has no-one else other than him.

He transferred £300 from my PayPal account to his account.

I found out by mistake, I think -

I got, like, an email saying,

"Oh, do you want to check your recent transactions?"

And I clicked on it, and I realised he had to transfer that money.

And, because he did it behind my back...

..to me, that was the moment I said,

"I can't be with this guy any more.

"He's never going to change."

Thankfully, that is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

We see that time and time again.

It can be the smallest thing.

But enough is enough.

I kick him out.

The same day, he sends me a text.

And he says, "What's your dad's WhatsApp number?

"I want to send him a video for his 80th birthday."

At that point, I was so used to...

..being manipulated by him.

He convinced me to take a huge amount of ketamine.

And he recorded me for an hour,

completely vulnerable,

completely out of it.

HE CHUCKLES

In the video, he says something like,

"You're in a state where someone could rob you or rape you,

"and you wouldn't even know."

He knew that my dad finding out that I was drugged,

and that I was in this situation would just kill me.

I saw this video of me sleeping,

snoring with my hands tied up in bed.

And he was next to me.

He calls my name to see if I would wake up.

And I'm still snoring, I'm out of it.

And then, he...

..starts sexually assaulting me.

In this video, he says, "I'm completely raping you,

"while you're asleep and unconscious,

"and making a video of it, as well."

I thought he was a monster.

How did he manipulate her into completely erasing

everything that she was before?

How utterly horrific!

How utterly horrendous for her to go through that

with no control at all,

and no sense of what's actually happening to her.

I thought, "I need to go to the police,

"and I need to report this person."

Can I be honest? I felt relief.

Cos I thought, "Now, I have a way that I can finally get rid of him.

"That he won't be able to get back

"and convince me to see him again."

This person never loved me.

This person is a psychopath.

Once I realised how dangerous he actually was,

I was more focused on making sure that he would be held accountable

for what he did,

and that he couldn't do that to any other woman.

I lied to him, I said, "Look, you've ruined my life here.

"I give up. I've told my dad everything.

"You're not going to blackmail me.

"I'm going back to Brazil on Monday."

I just wanted to buy time to actually go to the police

and report him, given that I had all the evidence I needed.

What happens is he actually emails me.

"I know you're going to leave,

"but I wanted to see you before you leave," or something like that.

And I said, "Perfect, this is the great opportunity to get them."

He texts me, and I said, "Do you want me to send you an Uber?"

Because he would always ask me to send him an Uber,

and I would always send it.

And he's like, "Oh, that would be great."

And he said, "Can I even shower at yours?

"Or, like, wash clothes at yours?"

I said, "Yeah, of course. No worries.

Like, "We can just talk."

You know, "I'm just packing."

And basically, I got him the Uber

and I shared the details with the police,

and they arrested him in front of my house.

I was relieved. Relieved.

I said "Oh, my God, he's going to be in jail.

"I'm free.

"I've finally got my life back,

"and there is no way in hell this guy's ever going to get in touch

"with me, because he can't.

"I'm free."

And I went back to all my friends,

my business partner, and I said, "I've done it."

Little did I think that he would actually get bail.

That was a big...blow to the gut.

I couldn't believe it.

My name is Chris Daw,

I'm a barrister and KC, King's Counsel.

But I have a niche area of practice,

which is advising people who have been the victims of crime.

Juliana, I think had found me,

searching and looking for someone who might listen to her story.

It was an appalling breakdown of the criminal justice system,

that that video evidence was available to the police,

available to the prosecution, and available to the courts -

but somehow or other, it didn't make its way through

into the decisions that were made about bail.

And he was released on bail,

even with that crystal-clear evidence of guilt available

to everyone at the beginning.

I was in shock.

So, I moved to an-an apartment that had, like, a concierge

and had CCTV everywhere.

So, I'm just like "I'll be safer here.

"Even though he's going to be on bail,

"he's not allowed to come here. It's going to be fine."

I then realised that he came to my previous address twice.

We reported him for breaching bail.

It's almost post-separation rage.

"You aren't going to get rid of me.

"That's not how this works.

"I'm in control. I am the winner.

"This is my story."

And at this point in time,

his behaviour is just as dangerous,

if not more dangerous than it was before,

because he feels entitled to break boundaries and take control

once again of her life.

It's so scary to think that, even though he had bail conditions,

that he still managed to come to my place.

I don't think he knew at the time that I had moved.

I wouldn't even get out of my house.

I mean, I have a small dog,

and I wouldn't even take him out for walks.

I was terrified.

The only reason he would not go to jail was if he either convinced me

not to report him, or if he did something to me worse,

he could kill me.

I was as appalled as almost any time in my career about

the inaction of the criminal justice system

to protect a vulnerable victim.

It was utterly shocking and appalling, what happened.

This girl has been through a horrific ordeal

up until this point.

She is traumatised by what has happened to her,

and she can't escape him.

Even when she tries, she can't.

Actually, it was a friend who sent me the website,

saying she just put his name online

and found these advertisements where he was offering hypnotherapy.

And with the first session for free being held at his mum's house,

in Ealing - which would also be a breach of his bail conditions.

That combination of someone who has the ability to use hypnotherapy,

or other forms of manipulation, mind manipulation,

coupled with a deep and unhealthy interest in sexual violence -

those two things are incredible alarm bells,

but nobody heard them.

And he was allowed to carry on doing that for month

after month, after month.

This feels really chilling, to... be back here,

and all these memories that are coming back.

The most difficult part of being here was the fact

that Hubert was on bail.

So, he was walking the same hallways as I was.

I was going through security check.

And when I look up,

I see Hubert just turning around, he locked eyes with me.

And that was the most chilling, horrible moment.

And I just looked down,

and I avoided eye contact with him.

It's unbelievable.

I was...

..in a state of hypervigilance constantly.

If he would go to the bathroom,

if I wanted to go to the bathroom,

if I went out for a cigarette here, he would come after me.

He wouldn't say a word, but he would lock eyes with me.

You can see from his behaviour, it is entitled, it is arrogant.

This says a lot about his - how he sees himself.

He will break rules if he needs to,

because he's special, in his own mind.

I was relieved.

Thank God, finally, someone who sees him for the danger

that he offers to me, and to others.

He didn't express any emotion at the trial.

He didn't express any remorse.

He thought himself above the law,

and he had always been able to talk his way out of things.

And so, it's interesting - in this scenario,

he was not able to do that.

No length of time probably would be acceptable in Juliana's eyes,

but 18 years is a good sentence.

And it just goes to show the gravity of exactly what he did to her.

This is one of the longest sentences that I've ever come across

for a first offender in this area of criminality.

We're motivated to find pleasure,

to find meaning and connection in our lives.

And he was motivated by something completely different -

by power, by control.

I believe that he really wanted to hurt her,

that he really wanted to leave a lasting mark.

He lacks feeling.

He is a monster.

It was testament to her character and her strength of will

that would see her through years and years of trying to bring

this dangerous man to justice.

She's very strong, the way that she took on not just him,

but the system around it.

And now, she's, like, rebuilding her life,

and trying to take that ordeal and moment in her life,

and make it into something productive and good.

And, as I always say, I really admire that woman,

really, not just as a friend, but as a as a person.

As a woman.

I think I was lucky to get out alive.

I was lucky that he wasn't able to manipulate the system

like he's been doing for years.

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