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♪ (THEME MUSIC PLAYS) ♪

Alanis Morissette was one of the biggest musical stars

of her generation.

Making this movie gave me a look

at these personal moments behind the scenes,

getting to see what she was up against at the time.

And there was still so much that I didn't know about her.

♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪

(CROWD CHANTS)

♪ Is all I want to say to you ♪

We ready?

Let's get together.

God, time's flying,

so let's just seize as many of the moments as we can

and enjoy the shows for what they are,

enjoy the cover team tonight, the vibe...

So have a good show, sweets.

Cheers.

Tank, don't fuck up.

Oh, you're asking for karma right there.

I'm gonna be watching.

Jay, don't blow that last note.

(CROWD CHEERS)

-♪ (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) ♪ -(CROWD CHEERS)

(CROWD CHEERS)

♪ ("ALL I REALLY WANT" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

♪ Do I stress you out? ♪

♪ My sweater is on backwards And inside out ♪

♪ And you say How appropriate ♪

♪ I don't want to dissect Everything today ♪

♪ I don't mean to pick you Apart you see ♪

♪ But I can't help it... ♪

GUY OSEARY: The album opens with the question,

"Do I stress you out?"

And then spends the rest of its time

trying to live up to that question.

♪ And it would knock me To the floor ♪

♪ If I wasn't there already ♪

♪ If only I could hunt The hunter ♪

TAYLOR: At the time, almost one out of every ten people

in America had the album.

Wherever you went, everyone knew Jagged Little Pill.

LORRAINE ALI: It's so rare for an artist

who's totally unknown

to come out with a debut album,

have one hit after another

to the point where they're not only, like,

a national phenomenon,

they're, like, a world-wide phenomenon.

♪ A way to get my hands untied ♪

♪ And all I really want... ♪

LISA WORDEN: Her brutal honesty is what empowered women.

It just gave you a chance to let out your own feelings.

It's like, "I've got a voice.

I'm 19 years old,

and I'm gonna fucking well tell you how I feel about that."

A lot of people would say, "Wow, you're so brave.

"You're so empowered. You're so strong," you know?

And I'm like, "Sometimes."

I can't write all these songs

without obviously having been disempowered.

I mean, half these songs are about attempting

to become empowered.

Alanis interview, take one.

A mark.

-ALISON KLAYMAN: So Canada, eh? -(LAUGHS)

ALISON: Tell us about where you grew up.

Ottawa is a sweet hometown of mine.

Capital of Canada.

Every woman from Ottawa that I know

is hyper-capable and competent, outspoken,

slightly androgynous, and fun, and knows how to party.

I lived in Ottawa for the first three years of my life...

and then we moved to Germany for a few years.

But I consider myself to have grown up in Ottawa, primarily,

and then influenced by the three-some-odd years

that we were in Europe.

And my parents were both teachers.

I have an older brother named Chad

and a twin brother named Wade.

My cousins used to say that they were coming over

to see the three boys.

"Come on, boys."

And I'd be like, "Okay, I guess that includes me."

I was eight and nine,

and I used to just sing songs into a cassette tape.

I wanted to be a dancer, actor, teacher, writer, nurse.

Archetypes.

Meet the parents. It's us! (CHUCKLES)

-Dysfunctional. -(CHUCKLES)

My mom is just breathtaking.

Anytime I feel beautiful,

I feel as though I look like her.

And when I don't feel so beautiful,

I don't look like her at all.

My dad always wanted to be in the entertainment industry.

He loves music. He loves film.

My dad definitely had his eye out all the time.

He was pretty excited to share anything

that would open those doors for me.

Touch my brother, would ya?

-Hey, Stephanie? -Yes, Alanis?

ALANIS: I auditioned for You Can't Do That on Television.

It was a big cattle call.

It's a kids' show that also winks to the parents.

Alanis, you must have a good idea.

I don't know.

If you say "I don't know," you get slimed.

Alasdair, you did that on purpose.

Now I will hate you.

It was too much like a full-time job,

I mean, we were on a TV show. So it was like, okay,

you're ten or you're 11 or you're 12,

and here are your hours.

I loved singing in church.

Basically a room every Sunday

where we're all singing at the top of our lungs,

these songs of rapture and gratitude and exaltation.

Yes!

I was singing,

and a woman tapped me on the shoulder really quietly,

and she said, "You have a beautiful voice."

And I remember thinking, "I do? Thanks!"

And I just remember sitting for the rest of Mass

just being, like... (GASPS)

RADIO HOST: My guest tonight is Alanis Morissette.

And I welcome you in, Alanis,

because I think you are the youngest guest

who I've ever had on this program.

(ALANIS CHUCKLES)

RADIO HOST: Twelve years old, and you actually sing and write

-your own music, right? -ALANIS: Yes, I do.

When I was ten, I just thought, "Hey, why don't I write a song?"

And I did.

♪ (UPBEAT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

♪ What did you think I'd be doing now? ♪

♪ While you left me I was thinking aloud ♪

♪ Will there be no end To my sorrow? ♪

♪ Will I make it Through tomorrow? ♪

SHOW HOST: Ladies and gentlemen, the 1987 CJOH

Youth Talent Search '87 grand prize winner

is Alanis Morissette!

This was when all the vision for what was possible

for the rest of my life, like, started getting flashes

of photos of me traveling and touring,

and it all started to feel possible.

♪ Fate, fate, fate Stay with me ♪

I'd get on airplanes when I was ten,

and my mom would tap the gentleman's shoulder

and say, "Could you just kind of

keep an eye on my daughter on this flight?"

So I'd fly to Toronto and do photoshoots

and music sessions and interviews.

It was just a different era.

We're really enjoying kind of the ride, if you wish, along.

And our basic purpose is to try to make sure

that the right people are surrounding Alanis.

ALANIS: My dad met Leslie Howe at a restaurant.

He was pretty much the only person in Canada who made music,

whom we knew of, who lived in Ottawa.

So the thought on my dad's part was,

"Well, this would be the perfect person to speak with."

LESLIE HOWE: They came over one day with some tapes

and approached me on seeing if I would

be interested in producing her.

And they dropped off a tape, and I said I'd listen to it.

I thought, you know, it's pretty damn good for somebody her age.

I'm working with Leslie Howe right now from One to One.

He's producing my album.

INTERVIEWER: And all of that having just turned 15.

-Yeah. -(INTERVIEWER LAUGHS)

ALANIS: Working with Leslie, just singing and singing and singing

and just cut my teeth on vocal aerobics, basically.

His style of production was much more... (IMITATES WHIP)

Forty-two tracks of harmonies.

Sing it again, sing it again, sing it again, sing it again.

So there was some element later where I compensatorily was like,

"I'm not doing fucking 50 takes. I'm doing one... or two."

That's when I started writing songs

for what became my self-titled record

with the song "Too Hot" on it, that I released when I was 16.

♪ ("TOO HOT" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

♪ Always too hot Never too cold ♪

♪ You make your best shot Too hot to hold... ♪

ALANIS: We did a video for "Too Hot".

It was one of the most fun parts of life.

♪ Hey, boy You wanted all or nothin'... ♪

There was an element of lack of hyper-protection,

no question.

I mean, I was shooting music videos in Paris.

I put a bathing suit on at one point

and jumped into the fountain.

Just as the police were coming to boot us out, we... (WHOOSHES)

We bolted.

LESLIE: And I guess she's just got this...

charisma that people like.

And they want to hear her, and they want to see her.

Alanis' summer has been spent

traveling with me across the country.

I'm going to Florida for Christmas.

(BOTH CHUCKLE)

On one level, I just thought, "This is dream-come-true stuff.

"This is, like, catalyst beginning

of a life of my dreams," you know?

And then on another hand, it was like,

"Where is my protection? Where is everybody?"

I lived to dance, so we'd go to these huge, huge clubs in Paris

and dance.

You know, hit on a bunch of times by people way too old.

Guys asking me to give them blowjobs in the bathroom.

And I'm just like...

Everyone was just so excited

about what was going on with music

and with the taking-off of my career, I think,

that it became really enticing.

ANNOUNCER: A gold record!

Representing sales of over 50,000 copies

of her MCA debut album, Alanis.

I remember when I was, like, 15 or 16,

I started gaining weight because I was going through puberty.

And I was called in to the studio to "redo my vocals",

and when I got there...

the producer said...

"We're not doing vocals.

We're here to talk about your weight."

Whenever I would go to a video shoot,

I remember sneaking Velveeta slice-- cheese slices

from the fridge at 3:00 in the morning.

And then the next morning would come, and...

he would walk in and count them

and say, "Did you eat two slices of cheese during the night?"

We'd go out to eat, he'd have a whole-size large pizza,

and I was allowed to buy a black coffee,

but I couldn't put milk in it.

So, yeah, that kick-started

a massive eating disorder journey for me.

I've been in active recovery for this eating disorder

my whole life.

My two best friends were Steph Gibson and Cynthia Smith.

Cynthia's a good singer too. She's underestimating herself.

-(ALL GIGGLE) -Nah.

-STEPH GIBSON: Sure. (LAUGHS) -Steph's coming on the road with me for sure.

Yeah, right.

STEPH: I don't know that she opened up

even to us 100 percent with what she was going through in life.

She probably struggled a lot, but, you know,

not a lot of people knew.

And Steph was the one that basically

caught me sticking my finger down my throat.

I just wrapped my arms around her

and gave her a big hug, and, you know,

I think she knew at that point that I was there for her,

and I would help in any way I could.

It was the first time that anyone said a word about it.

I'll be grateful to her forever for that,

because there was no shame.

It wasn't like, "What are you doing?"

It was like, "Should we talk about this?"

So sweet.

I could see why somebody would pick you out from the crowd.

-The camera does like you. -Well, thanks.

♪ Why is true love Just so hard to find? ♪

ALANIS: Something about me being 15,

that's when I really started to be hit on.

Twelve, they were a little scared.

Thirteen, they were a little scared,

but they'd still, you know...

Fourteen, less scary, but still scary.

Fifteen, all bets were off.

Somehow that seemed like a safer number for people.

I was a young girl in a studio

from 3:30 or 4:00 p.m. every day

till 3:00 in the morning.

You know, you don't leave her alone.

I just thought it was...

my fault, because almost every single person

that I would work with,

there would be some turning point

where the camera would go Dutch angle.

And I would just wait for it. I was like,

"Okay, this won't happen in the first week for this one,

but it'll happen," you know? And then sure enough, it would,

and it would either end the relationship,

or then there would be just some big secret

that we'd keep forever.

♪ ("REAL WORLD" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

♪ It's not a game ♪

ALANIS: We went to shoot a video for a song called "Real World".

The snake video. (CHUCKLES)

MCA Records did not know what category I would fit in

as I was evolving from performer, pop princess.

You know, they could handle that.

I was really starting to write my own material,

and it was just going in way too different

of a direction for them.

And a couple of the head people there,

I remember they pulled me aside,

and they said, "What are you doing with these new songs?

You should just keep doing what you've been doing,

what people know you as

and what Uncle John Alexander wants you to do."

I was in my apartment in Toronto...

and I got a phone call. "MCA's dropping you."

It was really terrifying and painful

because I was standing up to all these people

who had a very clear way of doing it the way they wanted.

You know, I had that people-please-y,

smiling-all-the-time thing,

but underneath it was this churning

of how out-of-integrity so much felt.

This is a song called "Right Through You".

♪ ("RIGHT THROUGH YOU" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

♪ Wait a minute, man ♪

♪ You mispronounced my name ♪

♪ You didn't wait for All the information ♪

♪ Before you turned me away ♪

♪ Wait a minute, sir ♪

♪ You kind of hurt my feelings ♪

♪ You see me as a sweet Back-loaded puppet ♪

♪ And you've got Meal-ticket taste ♪

♪ I see right through you ♪

♪ I know right through you ♪

♪ I feel right through you ♪

♪ I walk right through you ♪

♪ (VOCALIZING) ♪

♪ You took me for a joke, yeah ♪

♪ You took me for a child ♪

♪ You took a long hard look At my ass ♪

♪ And then played golf For a while ♪

♪ Your shake is like a fish ♪

♪ You pat me on the head ♪

♪ You took me out To wine, dine, 69 me ♪

♪ But didn't hear A damn word I said ♪

♪ I see right through you ♪

ALANIS: The early part of my songwriting,

I was working with people who said I couldn't write.

One of the liberating factors to being dropped by MCA Records

was that I promised myself

that I would not stop until I was in a room

with someone who saw me as a writer,

saw me as a human being expressing herself.

♪ You ♪

-♪ (SONG CONCLUDES) ♪ -(APPLAUSE)

ALANIS: Ooh, that smells like travel.

-EJ DEVONKAITIS: I knew it wasn't just luggage. -(ALANIS LAUGHS)

-There are some boxes mixed in. -(GASPS) How exciting.

This is my record from when I was, um...

ten and 11.

That's how I wrote it. On that thing.

It's a Fostex 4-track,

and you literally record it on a cassette tape

that would go backwards and forwards, like a reel-to-reel.

(LAUGHS)

It's the only thing I could... (CHUCKLES)

It was simple enough for me to engineer.

It's such a fucking good movie.

When I read the script, I was like, "Are you joking?

This is the greatest script."

Post-Catholic stress disorder was very validated.

When I first moved to Los Angeles.

Oh, this is just before the mayhem.

Aw.

Letters to and from all my ex-boyfriends.

(CHUCKLES) "Dear Alanis..."

Ooh! I need to sage myself tonight. (LAUGHS)

Okay, let's see.

Oh yeah, this is all writing Jagged Little Pill.

I mean, there's gonna be some gems in here.

This is the first version of "Ironic" right here.

And the first version of "Perfect".

I mean, it's basically what's on the record, is the truth.

May 27, 1994.

I was dying to go to Los Angeles

because I felt as though I could start with a clean slate.

People wouldn't have any preconceived notions of,

"Oh, you can't be anything other than who you were

when you were 15. What are you, crazy?"

I think the cultural difference between Canada and America

was severely underestimated.

The old saying, "LA can make you or break you" is very true.

I think that I've learned a lot from that city.

I've learned how to be assertive,

I've learned to stand up for what I believe in.

I've learned to walk away from environments

that are just not happening.

I used to spend time with anyone,

regardless of how I felt with them.

And... I don't know.

It's helped me to be able to spend time with people

that it's a mutually gratifying kind of relationship.

I co-wrote with...

maybe four people in LA. And then I met Glen.

When I met Alanis, and she was 19 years old...

not knowing exactly what she wanted to do,

but she knew damn well what she did not want to do.

And she didn't want to be stuck into a machine...

Big hair and dance moves.

She was looking for somebody to be an artist with.

We talked very briefly, and then went straight to the studio

and wrote "The Bottom Line".

(LAUGHING) It's verse and chorus.

♪ ("THE BOTTOM LINE" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

♪ If somebody asked you To surrender ♪

♪ And that was the only way To win ♪

♪ If somebody offered you The freedom to ♪

♪ Open your mind again ♪

♪ Would you take that flight? Would you walk right in? ♪

♪ So meet me down At the bottom line ♪

♪ And open my heart With your hands ♪

♪ And we'll hear the sound ♪

-♪ Of pretenses falling ♪ -♪ Of pretenses falling ♪

Oh, what a line. Oh shit.

I want to work with you. (LAUGHS)

♪ Down at the bottom... ♪

GLEN: The way she was able to turn phrases just, like,

right out of her psyche. She's just a gifted writer.

ALANIS: His begged question was, "Who are you?

What do you want to write about?

What's going on for you?" And what a lovely prompt.

No one's ever asked me that ever.

GLEN: I didn't have a budget, so I just recorded it myself.

We did the demo right on the spot.

She went in and sang it. That was our first day.

Between February of 1994 and February of 1995,

twenty separate occasions, that's it.

Twenty sessions, twenty songs.

-ALANIS: (LAUGHS) Ready? -GLEN: "You Learn".

Yeah, let's do it.

In every way, it was like a secret, handmade project

that we just kind of amused ourselves with.

I'm just sitting down,

dialing up a beat, playing something on guitar.

She starts singing.

Eight hours later, I would have the music right,

she would have the lyrics right.

She'd be ready to sing it.

That was the track.

ALANIS: Sometimes the song would start

before we were even ready.

Like, he'd hit a chord, and I'd be like... (STUTTERS)

You know?

And then I'd start recording.

♪ It feels so good ♪

Once a song is written,

I think I maybe changed lyrics after the fact

maybe twice in my whole career.

So they're pretty locked in once it's written.

♪ You love, you learn ♪

When I would drive home,

I would listen to the song we worked on that day,

and I wouldn't remember having written it.

So it was almost like it would be

wiped out of my memory the second it was finished.

And I loved that process,

because I could actually listen to these songs

with objectivity at the time. Like, almost directly after.

Without even knowing I was doing it,

I was carving out my voice.

I love going inside, so that's not dangerous to me.

I'm not terrified of going in. In fact, the scarier it is,

the more I know that I've hit pay dirt.

GLEN: We couldn't get signed.

Every major record company, and all the secondary ones,

everybody rejected us.

In November, we wrote, "You Oughta Know",

"Head Over Feet", "Hand in My Pocket".

We were on this, like, major roll.

Everybody was kind of like, "Yeah, it's, like... (MIMICKING)

I don't know. What's her look?"

ALANIS: After multiple rejections,

I just said, "Hey, could we...

Can you just leave us alone? And we're just gonna write."

GLEN: When she went back to Canada for Christmas,

I didn't think I would actually ever see her again.

Somehow, they arranged one more trip back for her.

♪ ("ALL I REALLY WANT" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

GLEN: When she came back from Canada, she was pale...

rail-thin, and she walked in my studio,

and she had her sweater on backwards...

and inside out.

♪ Do I stress you out? ♪

♪ My sweater is on backwards And inside out ♪

♪ And you say How appropriate ♪

Oh shit, she's still on it. Even though she's suffering,

like, she's still got this thing, you know?

♪ And all I really want ♪

♪ Is some patience ♪

♪ A way to calm The angry voice ♪

♪ And all I really want ♪

♪ Is deliverance ♪

♪ (VOCALIZING) ♪

I remember when I first played the record

and it was done to some people,

they were like, "This record is too--

It's too in-your-face. It's too urgent.

It's too emotional," you know?

And I'm just like, "Well, I am that right now.

And when I'm 34, I won't be,

and you won't get a record like that."

GUY OSEARY: Hi, can I order some sushi?

I started at Maverick at the age of 18.

I didn't really know much about the music business.

Okay, hold on. I'll call right back.

Okay, stop filming.

-I got some serious news. -(ALANIS LAUGHING)

-What? -I can't tell you on film.

I didn't even know what I was doing.

I had a briefcase that said "Wise Guy Records".

I didn't even know what that meant.

I just thought, "Wise guy..."

My job was to find talent and then develop it.

And then help that talent, um, reach an audience.

We get a call from the lawyers,

and they said, "We have a young executive at Maverick,

Madonna's label. Just go play this shit for them."

And I said, "We can't come."

"We're writing a song right now, and I am not presentable."

And he said, "No, you got to go."

I think she was in workouts.

I just picked up the acoustic guitar, threw it in the car,

and we drove over to Maverick Records.

I go up to grab Alanis, and she was there with Glen.

I'm like, "Oh, okay, that's--" I thought they were a band.

It looked very, like, could be hippie-ish.

I'm not even sure what's going on here.

Like-- But, okay.

And then we just walked into Guy's office right at the end.

He's like a guy that I went to high school with.

But, you know, he went to Beverly High School,

so he's got a little more experience.

He's hanging out with Madonna.

They put in a cassette tape.

♪ ("PERFECT" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

First song I heard was "Perfect".

♪ Sometimes ♪

♪ Is never quite enough ♪

♪ If you're flawless ♪

♪ Then you'll win my love ♪

♪ Don't forget to win First place ♪

♪ Don't forget to keep... ♪

GUY: Within 30 seconds, everything changed.

I was already floored.

I had not heard anything like it.

♪ Try a little harder... ♪

GUY: The simplicity of the way she was able to narrate...

yet how complex it was at the same time.

♪ How long ♪

♪ Before you screw it up? ♪

Wow, we started with...

♪ Sometimes ♪

And then we get into... ♪ Before you screw it up ♪

And you're like, "Wait, what?"

She goes a little edgy there.

♪ (VOCALIZING) ♪

And then comes back down again.

♪ That wasn't fast enough ♪

ALANIS: The song "Perfect" is the plight of the overachiever.

Having to be perfect according to some odd, random standard

and that you're innately bad.

I had to comment on it.

GUY: I said, "I'm in."

I didn't have to hear any more. "I love it. I'm all-in."

♪ If you're perfect ♪

I knew it was Madonna's boutique label,

so I was just, you know,

"How's this place gonna be decorated?"

And, you know, it was super hip.

Although I do remember her coming in at one point

and turning the light on.

And the whole thing fell, and she's like,

"Fucking cheap place." (LAUGHS)

And I had been held up at gunpoint

just before this meeting with her.

And when I walked in, you know, they were kind of whispery,

like, "Hey, she just got held up at gunpoint.

She's a little PTSD, you know?"

And she was like, "I want to-- (SCOFFS)

"I want to get held up at gunpoint.

That's just such a cool story.

I want to be held up at gunpoint."

GUY: And I remember sending a fax going,

"Please, let's get this done."

This is-- I was so excited about it.

I couldn't wait to have people hear it.

LISA: In the '90s,

the way most listeners found their new music

and their new favorite bands was the radio.

For an artist to get their music on KROQ,

it didn't just mean they could get heard in Los Angeles.

They knew it could mean, "Oh, wow. If I get on there,

I might be able to get on all these other radio stations

in the United States, possibly stations outside of the US."

Guy Oseary called and said,

"We have got to play you this new artist.

She's incredible. We want to play the music."

And we're like, "Okay. Yeah, sure, come on in."

We always listen to music at a ten.

It was on full blast.

And they played us "You Oughta Know".

♪ ("YOU OUGHTA KNOW" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

♪ I want you to know ♪

♪ That I'm happy for you ♪

♪ I wish nothing but ♪

♪ The best for you both ♪

♪ An older version of me ♪

♪ Is she perverted like me? ♪

♪ Would she go down on you In a theater? ♪

♪ Does she speak eloquently? ♪

♪ And would she have Your baby? ♪

♪ I'm sure she'd make a really Excellent mother ♪

♪ 'Cause the love that you gave that we made ♪

♪ Wasn't able To make it enough ♪

♪ For you to be open wide ♪

♪ No ♪

♪ And every time you speak Her name ♪

♪ Does she know how you told me You'd hold me until you died? ♪

♪ Till you died But you're still alive ♪

♪ And I'm here ♪

♪ To remind you ♪

♪ Of the mess you left When you went away ♪

♪ It's not fair ♪

♪ To deny me ♪

♪ Of the cross I bear That you gave to me ♪

♪ You, you, you oughta know ♪

LISA: The room is, like,

eyes popping out of our heads, going, "Holy crap.

We got to hear that on the radio."

We walked the CD down the hall,

basically interrupted the whole hour,

handed it to the DJ and said,

"Brand-new artist, her name is Alanis,

you're gonna play this right now."

♪ Did you forget about me Mr. Duplicity? ♪

♪ I hate to bug you In the middle of dinner ♪

♪ It was a slap in the face ♪

♪ How quickly I was replaced ♪

♪ And are you thinking of me When you fuck her? ♪

LISA: And the phone lines blazed.

"Who is that? Who is that? What song is that?

"Who was that?" I mean, just boom, boom, boom,

wanting to know what they had just heard.

♪ And every time you speak Her name ♪

♪ Does she know how you told me You'd hold me until you died? ♪

♪ Till you died But you're still alive ♪

♪ And I'm here ♪

It was immediately our number-one requested record

for many weeks.

HOWARD STERN: "You Oughta Know",

this is the song that really broke on KROQ radio.

-And suddenly, overnight... -ROBIN QUIVERS: Life changes.

HOWARD: ...people are singing this song with you,

and your audiences are around the block waiting for you.

♪ You, you, you oughta know ♪

STEVE BALTIN: You're not gonna write

a better "fuck off" song than "You Oughta Know".

Who hasn't been dumped?

Who hasn't wanted to tell an ex-lover to fuck off?

And who hasn't wanted to do it in that way,

so openly and so angrily?

It's like when you dream of walking up

and throwing the drink in someone's face,

or just smacking them, whatever.

She did it in song.

JOHANNA STEIN: We're all used to the stereotype of the girl

who gets broken up with and calls her friends crying.

And she sits on the couch, and she eats ice cream.

She wasn't that.

KEVIN SMITH: Back in the '90s,

I cannot tell you how many people were like,

"I identify with that song, 'You Oughta Know'."

And I'm like, "Who did you blow in a movie theater?"

HANIF ABDURRAQIB: When that song came out, I was, like, 12 or 13.

I... (CHUCKLES)

I don't know what going down on someone in a theater is,

you know? But I also knew that it was something--

Like, my not knowing made me feel like,

"Okay, this is dangerous or different

or something far outside my understanding."

LORRAINE: Alanis comes along

and sings about going down on someone in a theater,

and it's like, "Oh, wow, that's crazy."

You know, "This is really sexually explicit."

Really? 'Cause that's not what I'm picking up from it.

Yeah, that's in there, but that's not...

you know, what's speaking to me about it.

And how about the individual

that "You Oughta Know" is all about?

Is there a feeling that this is almost your revenge,

-the success of your single? -You know what?

The ironic thing is I don't even think

he knows that the song is about him.

-Maybe it's better he doesn't. -You know what? I think it is.

'Cause the last thing I want to do is to be that vindictive.

I don't think that I will be hurt in the way that I was hurt

by the person that I wrote "You Oughta Know" about

ever again, no.

This person, I don't even really know

whether he knows it's about him.

And I didn't write it to get back at him.

If I had, I think that I'd be plastering

his picture everywhere and telling everyone his name.

But I just really wrote it for the sake of my own release.

Well, clearly, somebody upset this girl.

Who is it?

And, you know, for years, no confirmation.

She's classy. She didn't talk about it and shit.

Everyone thinks it's...

the guy from some TV show.

(CHUCKLES)

It's funny, though, because I was dating

so many more people than just him.

But because of "You Oughta Know",

and people saying it was about Dave Coulier,

all this attention was like, "She dated one person."

Who's the person? Who gives a fuck?

It's the experience.

All I know is I wouldn't want to be him, you know what I mean?

Like, (LAUGHS) I don't care who he is.

But I hope whoever he is,

he went to therapy.

ALANIS: There's been about eight people

who've claimed the song has been about them.

So I'm always just like, "Who said?"

You know, "Who said?" (LAUGHS)

Interesting that you think that song is about you. Huh?

♪ Nails down someone else's back I hope you feel it ♪

♪ Well, can you feel it? ♪

♪ Well, I'm here... ♪

SHIRLEY MANSON: She'd come in at the right time

with the right attitude.

And it was very different to what women were doing

at that time. She really stood out.

♪ It's not fair... ♪

GUY: It was one of those kind of songs

where you just pull over the car

and you remember, like, "Wait, what is that?"

It doesn't sound like anything else out there.

During that time, it was regarded as a no-no

to play female artists back to back.

I was not allowed to play No Doubt into Alanis.

It was just the way things were.

STEVE: Was there room for Alanis in rock? No.

But it was simply, "You try and ignore the song."

"You see what's gonna happen."

♪ You, you, you oughta know ♪

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

(CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKING)

GUY: It happened very quickly.

As soon as that song hit the radio,

it just picked up.

JOCELYN RHEAUME: Who was this person?

And there was all the mystery,

because her first video, her hair was in her face

and she was in the desert and screaming, "You oughta know!"

STEVE: I was sent an advance of Jagged Little Pill.

There were no photos that came with it,

or all the photos, her hair was blurring her face.

ALANIS: My hair would cover me.

It's very convenient having all that hair.

MICHELE LAURITA: In the beginning,

there was definitely a style.

She kind of showed up like,

"This just came out of my hamper."

We did a full cover of Rolling Stone photoshoot

that had to be scrapped because I couldn't speak up

about the fact that the clothes that I was put in by the stylist

were not me! (LAUGHS)

You know, and then we reshot the whole thing

with me wearing what I was comfortable in,

and then it was great.

MICHELE: It definitely came up.

"Do we want to make Alanis more beautiful?"

"Do we want to make Alanis more grungey?"

"What's acceptable right now?"

♪ (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) ♪

SHIRLEY: For the first time in the history of music,

there was a moment where alternative artists

ruled the airwaves, ruled media, ruled TV.

It was the thing that everybody was buzzing on.

Alt music was your ticket to the fair.

SCOTT WELCH: Whoa, one moment.

GLEN: Scott Welch, the manager,

was really intent on it being a rock band.

ALANIS: When it came time to go on tour, we auditioned.

We auditioned tons of people.

Alanis put the band together from tryouts.

And we'd play. And I could play really loud,

and she didn't give a shit, so...

TAYLOR HAWKINS: I couldn't remember her fucking name.

"Atlantis." I just--

"Alanis. I've never even heard that word. That's not--"

"I don't know anyone else named Alanis,"

so I couldn't remember the name.

In the mail, I get a cassette of the three songs

you need to know.

The first song is "You Oughta Know".

And that's all you needed to hear.

That's gonna be fucking huge.

-So, Nick, where are you from? -I'm very English.

(LAUGHS)

TAYLOR: Nick Lashley was the guitar player,

an English cat.

And he can do all the cool noise effects,

and he's really a great lead guitar player.

So, Jesse, where are you from, dude? (LAUGHS)

-From Austin, Texas. -Yeah?

TAYLOR: The guitar player, Jesse,

played with the Chili Peppers very briefly.

GLEN: Jesse Tobias and Nick Lashley

had a wonderful kind of interplay

where they were able to cover all the parts

that we had on the record

and add a huge amount of power to it.

Chris, do you like to practice?

-Ah! -(LAUGHTER)

I hate practicing.

TAYLOR: The bass player, Chris Chaney, was an accident.

She called the wrong person back.

And we tried him out, and she's like...

"I didn't mean to call this guy."

"I didn't mean to call this guy."

I swear.

-You ready? -CHRIS CHANEY: I just was me.

I just showed up in what I was wearing.

No fashion sense. No true "style," right?

I felt a little intimidated.

'Cause he was a jazz guy, so he's like,

"I don't know."

He didn't even understand if it was good music, really.

And I was like, "Well, you know,

you've missed the last five years,

so here's fucking Soundgarden, and here's Jane's Addiction."

Learn it, live it, love it.

And he gets it now.

He's in Jane's Addiction now, which is...

"ironic." (CHUCKLES)

ALISON:

In the '90s? I mean, yes.

But, no.

You know, I'd had my challenges with women...

you know, women who wanted to be in my seat or...

You know, there was always such a scarcity mindset,

like there was only room for one.

You know, for me, hanging out with the guys was just easier.

Once we all knew none of us were gonna be romantic,

it was like, "Oh, cool, let's just make some shows."

TAYLOR: And the first show that we did,

we did a showcase for sort of friends and family.

Literally, it was our girlfriends

and people from the record company...

Madonna's over there.

-Where? -Right there.

TAYLOR: ...and Madonna.

It was like, "Fuck, Madonna's right there."

EXECUTIVE: For the last few months,

since we signed Alanis,

everybody's been saying to me, "What's she look like?"

You know, "What does she do?"

Anyway, I just want to introduce someone

who we're real crazy about, Alanis Morissette.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

LISA: Maverick did a showcase with her.

It was the first time we saw her live.

She was amazing. She was absolutely amazing.

♪ And I'm here to remind you ♪

♪ Of the mess you left when you went away ♪

♪ It's not fair ♪

♪ To deny me ♪

♪ Of the cross I bear that you gave to me ♪

♪ You, you, you oughta know ♪

(CROWD CHEERS)

(CROWD CHEERS)

♪ ("WAKE UP" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

♪ You like snow ♪

♪ But only if it's warm ♪

GLEN: The next night, she played at a place called Dragonfly.

We got to this little club,

and there were people lined up around the block.

It was like in one day, you couldn't get in the room.

♪ There's no sentimental value to the rose ♪

TAYLOR: The single had been out for a week by then,

and there was literally 5,000 people trying to get in.

♪ 'Cause it's easy not to ♪

♪ So much easier ♪

STEVE: This was the show that everyone had to be at.

This was before she was massive,

but everyone knew she was gonna be massive.

♪ (VOCALIZING) ♪

So, yeah, I was just 21.

-Yeah. -ALANIS: Cheers, Glen.

-Cheers, queers, stairs, and-- -ALANIS: Cheers, queers.

-Cheers, Nicky. -NICKY: Cheers.

ALANIS: Whoo-hoo! Party on, Garth.

(LAUGHTER)

He went like this...

That's a big dick. This guy's got the fuckin' rock...

(INDISTINCT CHATTER AND LAUGHTER)

It's me.

-Say hello. -Hello.

ALANIS: I remember Scott Welch pulled me aside

just after the auditions when we hired our bandmates.

He just kind of yanked me in, and he goes,

"You got to start being a boss, Alanis."

And I said, "I'm 20. I don't know how to be a boss."

He's like, "Well, you better figure it out fast."

This is Alanis' room.

And it's a fucking mess.

She's got no clue. Where are we going tomorrow?

-Where are we going tomorrow? -We're here tomorrow.

-We're staying here tomorrow. -Yes.

Okay, but we have no clue where we're going.

TAYLOR: We did a van tour.

The first two to three months was in a van.

No messing around for John John.

This is a private moment.

White tablecloths and silver linens,

that's all he uses.

What the hell is going on here?

TAYLOR: And we fucking literally went from the West Coast

all the way to New York.

At least get monitors together to start with.

-You want me up? -Yeah.

Okay.

At least get some stage line together

-and monitor level together. -Okay.

It's my perspective.

And it just fucking went nuclear, man.

It was, like, it went fucking nuclear.

(CROWD CHEERS)

Thank you.

♪ ("HAND IN MY POCKET" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

This song's called "Hand in My Pocket".

♪ I'm broke but I'm happy ♪

♪ I'm poor but I'm kind ♪

♪ I'm short but I'm healthy ♪

♪ Yeah ♪

♪ I'm high but I'm grounded ♪

♪ I'm sane but I'm overwhelmed ♪

♪ I'm lost but I'm hopeful, baby ♪

♪ And what it all comes down to ♪

♪ Is that everything's gonna be fine, fine, fine ♪

♪ 'Cause I've got one hand in my pocket ♪

♪ And the other one is giving a high-five ♪

♪ Well, I feel drunk but I'm sober ♪

I have the towel.

I have the towel she sweated on!

REPORTER: What did you think of Alanis' show?

-I thought it was pretty wicked, -She's the best.

I thought it was great. I thought Alanis was great.

It was awesome.

Her show was, like, wicked. It was really good.

♪ I'm wrong, and I'm sorry, baby ♪

HANIF: "Hand in My Pocket" was the jam.

It's mulling over all these contradictions,

and it's not exactly seeking an answer,

as much it is seeking an affirmation

that the contradictions are okay to live with.

♪ 'Cause I've got one hand in my pocket ♪

♪ And the other one is flicking a cigarette ♪

SHIRLEY: Women historically have always just been allowed

to have one approach, one face, one message.

And here was this artist saying,

"Well, I'm this, but I'm also that."

♪ 'Cause I've got one hand in my pocket ♪

♪ And the other one is giving a peace sign ♪

♪ I'm free, but I'm focused... ♪

STEVE MARGO: Alanis Morissette was one of those people

that came along that I thought, "This girl

could do incredibly well internationally."

They did launch her, obviously, in America

with "You Oughta Know". But the real hit,

the record that kind of blew it all up,

was "Hand in My Pocket".

♪ Baby ♪

♪ And what it all comes down to ♪

♪ Is that everything's gonna be fine, fine, fine ♪

♪ 'Cause I've got one hand in my pocket ♪

♪ And the other one is playing the piano ♪

♪ And what it all comes down to my dear friend ♪

♪ Yeah, yeah ♪

♪ Is that everything is just ♪

♪ Fine, fine, fine ♪

♪ 'Cause I've got one hand in my pocket ♪

♪ And the other one is hailing a taxi cab ♪

CHRIS: We played The Prince's Trust.

That show was the biggest show we did on the entire tour.

Bob Dylan was on that, Eric Clapton.

And then Alanis Morissette.

ALANIS: All I know is I couldn't hear anything.

I literally could not hear me sing

because everyone was singing so loudly.

(CROWD CHEERS)

Thank you very much.

LISA: You can go from being unknown to known by everybody.

It was that one word. It was "Alanis".

And you knew exactly who you're talking about.

Radio made superstars back then.

And then you got the MTV component

and it's mega-stardom.

ALANIS: When "You Oughta Know" came out,

because it was blurry, I wasn't being recognized on the street.

So I could still walk everywhere.

Once "Hand in My Pocket" came out, that was super clear.

And I remember walking down a street in New York,

and all of a sudden, people were...

running up to me.

KEVIN: Music videos in the '90s were at their absolute apex.

ANNOUNCER: MTV.

KEVIN: MTV was the path by which

any mainstream artist had to travel.

LORRAINE: There was so much happening.

It was really an exciting time in music.

That just speaks to how much Alanis was up against

when Jagged Little Pill dropped.

You know, for it to dominate the way it did,

when you look at what else was out there, that is really...

phenomenal.

♪ ("YOU LEARN" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

♪ I recommend getting your heart trampled on ♪

♪ To anyone ♪

♪ Yeah ♪

♪ Oh, yeah ♪

♪ I recommend walking around ♪

♪ Naked in your living room ♪

♪ Yeah ♪

♪ Swallow it down ♪

♪ What a jagged little pill... ♪

ALANIS: We've been to many different countries.

-Where are we? -Sydney, Australia.

We've been to Australia, all over North America,

all over Europe, Southeast Asia, Japan...

Mount Fuji.

I love being on a tour bus at 3:00 in the morning,

going through the mountains in Europe.

You know, there's so many moments

where we'd look at each other, bandmates, and just be like...

"Oh, my God!"

♪ You scream ♪

♪ You learn ♪

♪ I recommend biting off more than you can chew ♪

Stop it, man.

DAVID LETTERMAN: Our next guest is one of the year's

most provocative and talked-about singers.

Her CD is called Jagged Little Pill.

Please welcome Alanis Morissette.

The best new artist, Alanis Morissette.

-Alanis Morissette. -Alanis Morissette.

(SPEAKING JAPANESE)

-(SPEAKING FRENCH) -(SPEAKING FRENCH)

Hi, I'm David Bowie, but this is Alanis Morissette.

And the album of the year is Jagged Little Pill.

And the winner is Jagged Little Pill, Alanis Morissette.

Alanis Morissette.

-Alanis Morissette. -Thank you.

SHIRLEY: It was so huge.

The biggest debut album of any female artist ever.

LORRAINE: Jagged Little Pill was the second-best selling album

in the '90s and sold

33 million worldwide up until now.

♪ You learn ♪

LORRAINE: The industry discovers, "Wait a minute."

"This is actually lucrative."

"Look, there's a whole demographic

that we haven't tapped."

"You know, women who actually, like,

want to hear from themselves." (CHUCKLES)

"So let's do that. Let's push that."

LISA: Lilith Fair became a thing,

and I think Alanis played a huge part in opening that door.

SHIRLEY: There was a lot of women at that time,

whether it was Fiona Apple, whether it was Missy Elliot,

whether it was Courtney Love.

There were so many of us,

but Alanis proved to the world

and to the music business that all of us were viable.

(CROWD CHEERS)

ALANIS: So much energy.

It's like, the whole room is like... (IMITATES CROWD ROAR)

And I'm like... (IMITATES CROWD ROAR)

It's like the perfect, perfect poetic tantrum.

TAYLOR: We would do all the songs

from the record, no question.

We had all these segues to just fill space.

We would do "We Will Rock You" by Queen.

♪ Buddy, you're a boy Make a big noise ♪

♪ Playing in the street Gonna be a big man someday ♪

♪ You got mud on your face You big disgrace ♪

♪ Kicking your can All over the place ♪

Sing it!

♪ We will, we will rock you ♪

One more time! Come on, sing it!

♪ We will, we will rock you ♪

TAYLOR: We would do an ABBA song.

♪ If you change your mind ♪

♪ I'm the first in line ♪

♪ Honey, I'm still free ♪

♪ Take a chance on me ♪

TAYLOR: Or a Radiohead song.

♪ In the fake plastic earth ♪

♪ That she bought from a rubber man ♪

♪ To get rid of itself ♪

♪ It wears her out ♪

♪ It wears her out ♪

GUY: She was in a position now where it's like,

"Who do you want to open for you?"

ALANIS: Radiohead opened up for us on tour.

♪ But I'm a creep ♪

ALANIS: I like to think and tell myself

that I basically influenced them heavily.

TAYLOR: We would do our sound check and then watch them.

Radiohead would take two hours to sound check.

They were writing OK Computer.

I got along with the band really good.

I got along with Thom good too. "Thom." I call him "Thom."

Taylor was more hanging out with them.

I tried at first.

Like, "I could be your friend, and I'll come to your--"

"No, okay, bye."

You know, the fucking aloofness killed me dead.

Fuck, Hollywood is ennui.

I was dying from the aloofness.

We were playing with Neil Young in Europe,

a whole bunch of dates, so I'm listening

to all his catalogue right now.

Everyone loves Neil Young.

It's good to play with him, yeah.

He's Canadian, and he's a great artist.

And he's got a lot of sort of musical history,

and he's very sage.

So it'll be good to be around that kind of a vibe for a while.

There were so many people that came to her show.

Beck rode with us on the bus, Dave Grohl rode with us.

TAYLOR: We were with

the Foo Fighters a lot of the time.

And the Foo Fighters rock.

Dave would leave notes sometimes

'cause they knew we'd be playing the club

a week later or something.

♪ Ob-la-di, ob-la-da ♪

♪ Life goes on, wah ♪

♪ La, la, how the life goes on ♪

♪ Ob-la-di, ob-la-da ♪

♪ Life goes on, wah ♪

♪ La, la, how the life goes on ♪

♪ Ob-la-di, ob-la-da ♪

♪ Life goes on, wah ♪

♪ La, la, how the life goes on ♪

♪ Ob-la-di, ob-la-da ♪

♪ Life goes on, wah ♪

♪ La, la, how the life goes on ♪

Whoo!

Thank you, God bless you.

(CROWD CHEERS)

-ALANIS: Where? Did we miss it? -BAND MEMBER: Come back around.

TAYLOR: I remember being protective of her.

I remember playing clubs

and guys trying to sneak backstage and stuff,

just a little bit.

But I just remember us being, like, protective of her.

And her being sort of protective of us

and also being like, you know,

"You guys being good boys out here?"

Which, of course, we were fucking not at all.

I mean, the most debaucherous tour I've ever done in my life

was with Alanis Morissette.

BAND MEMBER: Aloha.

CHRIS: We were just partying.

Like, that's what our heroes did.

I remember Slash saying,

"God, I remember hearing about how you guys were on that tour."

"I mean, I heard you guys were partying harder than we were."

These, like, 24, 25-year-old guys.

We have, like, hormones on fire.

Now we're rock stars playing

with the biggest pop star on the planet.

CHRIS: Chicago!

Hey, Taylor!

''Hey, there's the man.

-I started this. I started-- -Good job.

-That's her pen. -He's so hot, isn't he?

-Yeah! -Yeah.

TAYLOR: As Alanis is rising,

strong woman, standing up for, you know...

just, like, feminism, you know, essentially.

And...

And we were all just, the whole band was just...

trying to fuck as many chicks as we possibly could

the whole time.

Here we have Jesse Tobias

getting in on the autograph scam.

Got a lot of young ladies that want to meet him.

Can we be your groupies and tag along on the road with you?

ALANIS: These young women

are coming just to hear what I have to say,

and then you're manipulating the groupie conversation?

Even the word "groupie", I'm like, "No."

You mean a human fucking being coming to a show.

Agenda-d or not. Doesn't fucking matter.

We had a stack of after-show passes.

I can't believe I'm gonna tell you this.

We literally had a room

on the other side of the arena,

and our guitar tech would give out passes.

To bring women backstage who just are dying.

They want to meet Alanis. Maybe they want to meet us,

but we know they want to meet Alanis.

The hypocrisy of what her music and message was,

then here you have us, like, scoundrels.

You know, trying to get laid.

You know what? Taylor's out there stealing all

the young girls, Alanis.

-He's right there, hon. -He's in here.

You fucking liar!

What are you talking about, you turkey?

And then Alanis found out about that,

and she got so fucking pissed at us.

It did feel disrespectful to me.

Some of the behavior just didn't match

my mission or my value system at all.

But I'd only grown up around men.

So I just thought, "Okay, well,

you gonna replace them with five other men

that are gonna do the exact same thing and won't sound as great?"

(LAUGHS)

All those years of sitting in my bedroom practicing my guitar,

how did they get me to right now?

ALANIS: What can I ask you?

What's it like being a male playing in a band with a woman?

NICK: I think, in a sense,

lead singers are their own breed.

ALANIS: A dime a dozen? (LAUGHS)

NICK: No, they're their own breed,

whether you're male or female.

You guys, this looks so amazing. I'm dying.

SHIRLEY: When you are the only woman

in a male-dominated environment,

no matter what the relationship is with your peers

or your employees,

it's still, I think, very complicated and complex.

Men have not been raised to believe

that women should have

as much social and economic power as they do.

I didn't pay attention to who her band was. But...

were we supposed to? (CHUCKLES)

-ALANIS: Michelle. There she is. -Hi.

-ALANIS: Hi, cutie. -Hi.

MICHELE: The fact that the band wasn't

"Alanis Morissette and the Heartbreakers",

the fact that they weren't

headlining with their names and Alanis,

it might have been hard for them.

It was what it was. I mean, it's my record.

This is Jagged Little Pill.

And you're all knocking it out of the park

and taking it to a whole other level.

But there was no way around the fact that it was me.

You auditioned for--

You auditioned to be in the band for a solo artist.

So, if that's not what you're okay with...

you don't have to be here.

♪ ("YOU OUGHTA KNOW" BY SCALA & KOLACNY BROTHERS PLAYS) ♪

♪ I want you to know ♪

♪ That I'm happy for you ♪

♪ I wish nothing but ♪

♪ The best for you both ♪

♪ An older version of me Is she perverted like me? ♪

♪ Will she go down on you in a theatre? ♪

♪ Does she speak eloquently? ♪

♪ And would she have your baby ♪

♪ I'm sure she'd make a really excellent mother ♪

♪ 'Cause the love that you gave that we made ♪

♪ Wasn't able to make it enough for you to be open wide ♪

♪ No ♪

♪ And every time you speak her name ♪

♪ Does she know how you told me you'd hold me until you died ♪

♪ Till you died But you're still alive ♪

♪ But I'm here to remind you ♪

♪ Of the mess you left... ♪

LISA: As soon as Alanis' started becoming a thing,

of course came the idea that she was Svengali'd

because she wrote the record with Glen Ballard.

Therefore, clearly, it's good, so it had to come from a man.

SHIRLEY: It's still an instinct to diminish any woman

who isn't willing to participate

in the little box that has been carved out for her in society.

HANIF: All the Jagged Little Pill reviews that I read

were written by men

who could not move beyond this binary of,

"Well, she's angrier than we'd like her to be."

ALANIS: When I write really angry songs about someone,

I'm not writing to get back at that person,

I'm writing because it's the only environment

where I can get angry and not have it be destructive.

It's just an expression, unjudged, uncensored.

It's a very pure, sacred place to me.

JOHANNA: "You Oughta Know" created this perception

that Alanis was this rageful, vengeful,

angry young woman.

HANIF: And of course, that's gendered, right?

Of course, so much of it was, at its core,

"Well, why is this woman so angry?"

Even in the reviews that praised Jagged Little Pill,

there are people who were just, like, "Well, gosh,

she's just so angry."

They were bearing witness to someone who was

an immensely gifted writer.

It was easier to kind of, like, backhandedly compliment

the writing while couching it in, "But she's so angry."

ALANIS: Empowerment as a young woman in the '90s

was exciting for a lot of people.

But it was also not good news for the patriarchy.

All of a sudden, I started naming it or singing about it.

That was not welcome.

If you spoke up, you were just immediately shut down...

and shamed.

♪ That you gave to me ♪

♪ You, you, you oughta know ♪

The point in my writing these songs...

I was not writing to punish.

I was writing to express and get it out of my body

because I didn't want to get sick.

When I was younger, I spent a lot of time with adults.

And I immersed myself in an industry that, you know,

forces you to have an accelerated growth.

So you have to grow up in order to control

what's happening to you, I suppose.

Yeah, self-protection, self-preservation.

I mean, I had no idea what the concept

of "professional boundary" meant.

But it was me getting a sense of...

boundaries, or lack thereof.

INTERVIEWER: Have you had some bad loves?

Yes, definitely.

I've had a lot of sort of negative relationships,

definitely. Um...

partly-- you know, partly my responsibility, really.

I take-- You know, I take responsibility for those.

No, no, no, you don't have to blame yourself.

I'm not blaming myself. I'm taking part responsibility.

Me not telling specific information about

my experience as a teenager

was almost solely around wanting to protect.

Protect my parents, protect...

my brothers, protect future partners,

protect myself, protect my physical safety.

Yeah.

I'm gonna need some help,

'cause I never talk about this shit.

There was a lot of shame

around having any kind of victimization of any kind.

And it took me years in therapy to even admit

that there had been any kind of victimization on my part.

I would always say, you know,

"I was consenting." You know?

And then I'd be reminded, like, "Hey, you were 15."

"You're not consenting at 15."

Now I'm like, "Oh yeah, they're all pedophiles."

"It's all statutory rape."

I did tell a few people and they--

You know, it kind of fell on deaf ears a little bit.

It would usually be a "stand up, walk out of the room" moment.

So a lot of people say, "Why did that woman wait 30 years?"

I'm like, "Fuck off, they didn't wait 30 years."

"No one was listening, or their livelihood was threatened,

or their family was threatened."

So, yeah, the whole "why do women wait" thing,

women don't wait.

A culture doesn't listen.

(PROJECTOR WHIRRING)

HANIF: Whenever people talk about the album,

they are often quick to talk about the anger in it,

but not about the release or the joy or the pleasure in it.

Because Jagged Little Pill is also a humorous album.

And it's also playful, and it's also layered.

It's also heartbreaking, but promising.

None of the rest of that album is that angry.

ALANIS: What about songs like "Head Over Feet"?

What about songs like "You Learn"?

KEVIN: I mean, come on, you throw

a fucking rock at that album,

you hit a song that somebody sang, anthem-like,

over and over and over again.

GLEN: There's only one song that I wanted on the record

that nobody really wanted on the record.

It was called "Ironic".

♪ ("IRONIC" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

I begged. And we put it way down the list.

♪ An old man ♪

♪ Turned 98 ♪

♪ He won the lottery ♪

♪ And died the next day ♪

The idea of something that's almost perfect

and then something ruins it.

♪ It's a death row pardon ♪

♪ Two minutes too late ♪

♪ Isn't it ironic? ♪

♪ Don't you think? ♪

For her to write, "It's like rain on your wedding day..."

It's like...

What a hook.

I'm sorry, she just fucking nailed it.

♪ It's like rain ♪

♪ On your wedding day ♪

♪ It's a free ride ♪

♪ When you've already paid ♪

♪ It's the good advice ♪

♪ That you just didn't take ♪

♪ And who would've thought? ♪

♪ It figures ♪

♪ Mr. Play-It-Safe was afraid to fly ♪

♪ He packed his suitcase and kissed his kids goodbye ♪

♪ He waited his whole damn life to take that flight ♪

HANIF: She almost writes with communal gathering in mind.

Alanis is one of those artists who has mastered

the shout-along crescendo.

♪ It's like rain on your wedding day ♪

♪ It's a free ride when you've already paid ♪

♪ It's the good advice that you just didn't take ♪

♪ And who would have thought? It figures ♪

(CROWD CHEERS)

A-one, and a-two, and a-one, two, three.

♪ Well, life has a funny way of sneaking up on you ♪

♪ When you think everything's okay ♪

♪ And everything's going right ♪

♪ And yeah, well ♪

♪ Life has a funnier way of helping you out ♪

♪ When you think everything's gone very wrong ♪

♪ And everything blows up in your face ♪

KEVIN: It's a female artist singing about

a female life and identity

that transcended gender,

where dudes could be like, "I feel the same way."

HANIF: She's also great with imagery.

While people were arguing over the linguistic use of irony,

I think they missed out on the imagery.

♪ It's like 10,000 spoons ♪

♪ When all you need is a knife ♪

GLEN: Ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife.

Who comes up with that shit? Alanis, you know?

♪ Isn't it ironic? ♪

HANIF: When you talk about rain on your wedding day,

I can see and feel the disappointment

that comes with that.

I didn't know what that was when I was 13, 14.

♪ It's like rain ♪

♪ On your wedding day ♪

♪ It's a free ride ♪

♪ When you've already paid ♪

♪ It's the good advice ♪

♪ That you just didn't take ♪

♪ And who would have thought? ♪

♪ It figures ♪

♪ (VOCALIZING) ♪

♪ Yeah, yeah, well ♪

♪ Life has a funny way of sneaking up on you ♪

♪ (VOCALIZING) ♪

(CROWD CHEERS)

DRIVER: Hey, do you want me to go straight

-and we'll come back around? -Want to get down?

Here you go.

God.

ALANIS: I couldn't leave my hotel room.

We'd land somewhere, and there'd be 10,000, 20,000 people.

And I'd walk through, and people would snip pieces of my hair

or just punch me.

That's where I was like, "This can't be personal."

"This isn't personal."

"This is just... a thing...

that has almost nothing to do with me."

Being in the public eye is not a normal social construct.

I used to will myself to go back to sleep,

because my waking life felt like such a dream.

And when I would sleep, it felt like a normal life.

♪ And all I really want ♪

♪ Is some comfort ♪

♪ A way to get my hands untied ♪

♪ And all I really want ♪

♪ Is some justice ♪

♪ (VOCALIZING) ♪

♪ All I really want ♪

(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(CROWD CHEERS)

ALANIS: You're in a lot of positions

where you want to connect with people.

There was less of a sense of community

than I thought there would be.

And there's a lot of illusion within all of what I do.

There's a lot of mystery surrounding it.

And when you really get inside of it and you realize

that success as such may not give you what it has

promised it would give you,

it can be very disheartening but equally exciting

because it allows you to question everything.

So how are you? How was this tour for you?

The most intense thing probably in my entire life.

Really?

TAYLOR: We toured hard.

Eighteen months of hard-core touring.

I mean, it was literally 18 months of just fucking,

"Where are we?"

"Here's your hotel key." (SCOFFS)

ALANIS: My work addiction wasn't really addressed.

I didn't even know there was such thing.

If we say we work till 5:00 in the morning,

someone would go, "Oh, that's great."

"You must have gotten so much done," you know?

But if I said I did heroin till 5:00 in the morning,

people would be concerned, understandably.

TAYLOR: Life changing, good or bad, is still traumatic.

And all of our lives changed on that tour.

CHRIS: Thank God our last show's in Hawaii.

What a beautiful place to finish it out.

ALANIS: Yeah, in Hawaii, I just thought, "Oh my God...

this is over for now," you know?

And I hadn't lived anywhere.

I didn't have a home for the whole tour.

And, you know, friendship-wise, it was a very tenuous time

in terms of, who do I trust? Who's a real friend?

Who's here for opportunistic reasons?

Who's here for exploitation reasons?

Who's here because they actually love me?

You know?

♪ (ROCK MUSIC PLAYS) ♪

(CROWD CHEERS)

(CROWD CHEERS)

Thank you very much, everyone.

Thank you so much, it's been great.

Bye.

TAYLOR: We finished that last show in Hawaii.

Yeah, I wasn't sure what was gonna happen.

ALANIS: What are you gonna do when you're done for a while?

TAYLOR: (SHARP EXHALE) God, I don't know.

-Go crazy for a little while. -ALANIS: Yeah?

You know, just play drums, surf.

Surf?

TAYLOR: And that's when I heard on the radio

that Foo Fighters were looking for a drummer.

And I knew I'd better figure out my next move.

(BOTH CHUCKLE)

-Okay, we won't use that. -Okay.

TAYLOR: I went on to join the Foo Fighters.

I remember calling her, and she cried. And I felt...

Like I was leaving her, you know?

But I also knew she didn't need me.

It was definitely kind of a "breaking up of a family"

sort of thing. After 18 months of that,

I think that was hurtful to her.

And I think she felt a little bit like I,

you know, betrayed her.

Okay, Taylor.

-Simple messages. Little things. -All right.

I was full devastated.

You know, you spend time with these people,

and you witness each other in these contexts

that are really unusual,

and then you go your separate ways.

And it's almost like...

their view of what had happened

goes with them.

And so it's almost like certain chapters and eras disappear

when the witnesses disappear.

♪ ("MARY JANE" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

♪ What's the matter Mary Jane? ♪

♪ Had a hard day? ♪

♪ As you place the don't disturb sign on the door ♪

♪ You lost your place in line again ♪

♪ What a pity ♪

♪ You never seem to want to dance anymore ♪

♪ It's a long way down ♪

♪ On this rollercoaster ♪

♪ The last chance ♪

♪ Streetcar ♪

♪ Went off the track ♪

♪ And you're on it ♪

This is the most peaceful I've ever been in my whole life.

With what this last year and a half has given me,

you'd think that I wouldn't be peaceful right now.

But I think it's forced me to go

either to a peaceful place or a crazy place.

♪ (VOCALIZING) ♪

♪ You're the sweet crusader ♪

♪ And you're on your way ♪

♪ You're last great ♪

♪ Innocent ♪

♪ And that's why I love you ♪

(CROWD CHEERS)

I'm really happy right now, happy for my own reasons.

Not happy because I've sold millions of records,

not happy because--

Not happy because I am playing stadiums,

not happy because I'm touring the world necessarily,

not happy because I'm "winning awards", quote, unquote.

But I'm happy because I've finally reached a place

where I can create what I want

and where I don't have to worry about putting food on my plate.

LORRAINE: For an artist who comes into it as themselves,

with messy hair,

with the clothes from their closet

rather than what the record company dressed them in,

somebody whose image wasn't concocted and fabricated,

it's pretty phenomenal that she broke through as big as she did

and has had the longevity that she has had,

because none of that should have ever happened

if you went along with what the rules are

in rock and pop fame.

But nobody told her that, apparently.

Alanis opened a bunch of different doors

for artists that came after her.

She inspired a generation

of confessional female singer-songwriters.

♪ And I'm here ♪

♪ To remind you ♪

SHIRLEY: Only in hindsight am I aware of what Alanis did

for every woman that's come up behind her.

♪ To deny me ♪

♪ Of the cross you bear ♪

SHIRLEY: When you're battering down 30 million doors,

that's helping everyone. That's helping every woman

have just that little more chance of being successful.

LORRAINE: After Jagged Little Pill,

her two next albums debuted at number one on Billboard.

And even as music is changing,

even as, you know, the names of the artists

at the top of those charts are changing,

she's dropping in at the top.

From Jagged Little Pill all the way up to Broadway,

what is the core thing that pulled her through

and kept her sane

and made it so she didn't implode

like a billion other artists was the music.

JOHANNA: To get shot out of a fame rocket,

it's a very isolating experience.

I'm so thankful that she survived it...

that she is surviving it,

because, you know, it's a one-way street.

And that she just has done it with such grace

and constant self-preservation.

I take it really seriously.

I take my healing and recovery work really, really seriously.

And I've done a lot of therapy, copious amounts of therapy.

I feel very open.

I feel like the future is limitless.

All of this has just begun.

All of this exploration has just begun.

I knew pretty intuitively that there was no way to re-create

something that ineffable and magical.

And I thought the idea of chasing some kind

of repetition was ridiculous.

But I also trusted the ebbs and flows

of fame, under a rock, fame, under a rock,

fame, loved, hated, hated, hated, loved, loved,

fame, under the rock.

I mean, that's just how my whole life has been

to this day.

You know, I'm either super public, or I'm in my sweatpants,

writing, creating, generating,

stepping out, public, and then hiding again.

I mean, that's just how it is.

That's how I survive it.

(WATER BUBBLING)

MALE VOICE: Work it.

Yeah.

All right, I'm gonna see what I can get done.

I got a bunch of stuff here, but--

No, and the thing is, is like...

she could also sign them

tomorrow, like, when you and I have

our call with her at 3:00, you know what I mean?

ALANIS: Hello, it smells good in here.

Okay.

ONYX: Hi, Mommy.

-Hi, gorgeous. -What are you doing?

I'm singing the song about you and Winter and Ever.

Would you like to sit on a chair next to me,

or would you like me to hold you?

-I want you to hold me! -(TOY PIANO PLAYING)

Ready?

Ready, ready, ready, ready.

(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

Why do we need that?

'Cause if I go... (POPS)

...and some spit goes on there, it sounds like "poof",

as opposed to... (POPS)

-WOMAN: Here we go. -Okay.

JIMMY FALLON: Performing the song "Ablaze"

from her first album in eight years,

here's the one and only Alanis Morissette.

The music's playing, Mommy.

It is. It's an intro.

Okay, then sing it.

♪ First thing that you'll notice ♪

♪ Is some separation from each other ♪

♪ Yes, it's a lie ♪

♪ We've been believing since time immemorial ♪

♪ There was an apple There was a snake ♪

♪ There was division ♪

♪ There was a split ♪

♪ There was a conflict in the fabric of life ♪

Sorry, but that's not the same time as...

Okay, sorry.

♪ To my boy ♪

♪ ("ABLAZE" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

♪ All that energy, so vital ♪

♪ Love your hues ♪

♪ And your blues in equal measure ♪

♪ Your comings And your goings-away ♪

♪ My mission is to keep the light in your eyes ablaze ♪

-Hi, Mom. -Hi, baby.

I really like that, and that.

♪ To my girl ♪

♪ All your innocence and fire ♪

♪ When you reach out ♪

♪ I am here hell or high water ♪

♪ This nest is never going away ♪

-Did you say "nest"? -Nest.

My mission is to keep...

-Well, why did you say "nest"? -'Cause it's a nest.

Oh.

♪ Ablaze ♪

So, are you gonna sing soon?

-Sure. -Okay.

Five one way, five the other way.

-Five one way. -The whole stack?

And then while she's doing the stack,

you can make the next stack...

-Tidy. -Homogenous.

-Facing the same way. -Okay.

There's one.

MAN: This is huge to have...

-Huge. -MAN: Manpower.

That one's good.

I love these signatures. It's like, every time--

ALANIS: You're the only one, believe me.

-People are like, "Oh." -MAN: Yeah.

ALANIS: I'm like, "What?"

-They're like, "Oh." -MAN: All right, you want--

Fine, you want a nice, neat fake-ass one?

ALANIS: You want me to just print it?

MAN: Yeah.

ALANIS: Strangely satisfying.

When I hear Jagged Little Pill,

whether it's through the beautiful voices

of the Jagged Little Pill musical,

or whether it's while I'm singing it,

or hearing it on the radio...

There's a kindness.

It's like this velvet kindness.

No matter how pissed off she is...

It's like there's mercy in it.

There's empathy in it.

There's hope, even when the song is hopeless.

There's a little dreg of...

Of "everything's gonna be okay, no matter how horrible it gets."

♪ ("HEAD OVER FEET" BY ALANIS MORISSETTE PLAYS) ♪

♪ I couldn't help it ♪

♪ It's all your fault ♪

♪ You've already won me over ♪

♪ In spite of me ♪

♪ Don't be alarmed if I fall ♪

♪ Head over feet ♪

♪ And don't be surprised if I love you ♪

♪ For all that you are ♪

♪ I couldn't help it ♪

♪ It's all your fault ♪

♪ Your love is thick ♪

♪ And it swallowed me whole ♪

♪ You're so much braver ♪

♪ Than I gave you credit for ♪

♪ That's not lip service ♪

♪ You've already won me over ♪

♪ In spite of me ♪

♪ And don't be alarmed if I fall ♪

♪ Head over feet ♪

♪ And don't be surprised if I love you ♪

♪ For all that you are ♪

♪ I couldn't help it ♪

♪ It's all your fault ♪

♪ You are the bearer ♪

♪ Of unconditional things ♪

♪ You held your breath ♪

♪ And the door for me ♪

♪ Thanks for your patience ♪