Original subtitles

three four minutes

[Music]

I was actually in the process of moving

houses me and my wife had sold our house

and we're just been moving all day

that's all we've been doing and uh you

know sometime in the afternoon that day

I get a phone call

and they're like uh do you know what

happened

I specifically remember I was in of all

places Gary Indiana I was playing in a

tournament and we jumped online and all

of a sudden there was a lot of Buzz and

a lot of discussion about what was going

on

[Music]

I was on my way traveling to

Florida I was in my car driving going to

the cinema well I was on a USO tour

uh we went to Kuwait is it this is this

is like the the Kennedy assassination

every every poker player knows knows

where he was

[Music]

the first reaction I had to this was one

of panic in Europe maybe it took a day

or two to sink in I was in bed and it

was early and I got a call on my home

line and I knew that I had to mean

something it was my agent Brian who

called and I I got a couple texts from

Tom Dewan and stuff so I knew something

was up um it was like 10 30 11 o'clock

and no one everyone knows not to call

before noon there's no question that

what happened resulted in a tectonic

shift in the poker landscape and

unfortunately that has had pretty severe

economic consequences for a lot of the

industry and a lot of the community

you know these guys making three four

hundred thousand a month or more it's a

lot of money you know you kind of like

lose respect for money I guess when you

make that much money that easy every

month and you know what you think it's

not gonna end but guess what it did end

it did it did it's over and I think

everybody kind of went like why why are

you cracking down on

on poker I mean this is you know this is

like this might as well crack down on

baseball the founders of the three

largest online poker sites were indicted

by the FBI on Friday and what could

serve as a death blow to the thriving

industry

[Music]

laughs

[Music]

what do you admitted or not

you all dream in that moment when you

can change everything

when you can reinvent yourself

rarely does that opportunity

to present itself

and what it does how many of you would

recognize it when it comes

and even if you have the Gods Not to

just cash in while you were ahead of the

game

but the gamble to really go for it go

for all

I'm sure

I'm sort of Dreams you never met anyone

the dreams you think of before you're

pushing all your chips the dreams you

wish for with your eyes closed right

before you blow out the candles

I mean let me ask you this when those

guys back in Lexington and Concord

we're upset about paying taxes if I had

this shot heard around the world

did they know what they were starting

or they just looking for some action

[Music]

is a way to understand what makes

America tick I just think poker players

are the last last American Cowboys poker

is the games as like jazz is the music

right I mean it's our game and the

world's taking to us this could be the

start of something big look there is

something cool about being good at poker

I wish I were a really great at poker

there's something that is absolutely

linked to the American psyche in our DNA

from the start is this adventurous group

of people who are willing to take a

chance

[Music]

poker is the epitome of of capitalism

anyone can play all you have to do is

have the money to buy in

[Applause]

that this could be the startups

for the most amazing thing is that it

has become as popular as it has no one

could Envision the boom this thing's had

both good right now is bigger than the

Super Bowl

it's definitely part of our national

story that each one of us is out to like

make his Destiny it's a game of bluffing

like the entire American character at

the heart of it is all built around I'm

gonna Bluff that this is who I am and

then that's who I'm gonna be what's

amazing to me is there's people that

want to shut down poker inside the

United States whether it's in casinos

whether it's online and

that that that's that's crazy

it's love life religion politics all

wrapped up into one game

[Music]

[Music]

Shuffle Up and Deal

[Applause]

[Music]

thank you

no one really really knows when and

where this game was created

I I think that's a fascinating thing

about how is a game developed I mean who

thought of this game who who uh thought

of it who explained it the first time to

say to his 8 or 10 or 12 15 buddies and

said here's what we're going to play and

here's how you play the game it's almost

like genesis in a sense I mean about you

know when it all began

American country where people like to

take risks like to live life on the edge

that that is what poker is about I mean

poker's always been a part of of

American culture you know

you got to keep in mind there was so

little gambling that was legal in this

country when so many of us were growing

up and cards was one thing that you

could do that involved gambling I have

been playing poker for two and a half

years my whole family are games players

my parents had a card night every Friday

night I would say maybe every second or

third Sunday the men would be in the

basement playing poker we played poker

when I was growing up we had a family

game and as a little kid you know I'd

come and they'd say come on over here

with my head for good luck I always

wanted to play poker because that's what

Tom Sawyer played you know in the books

all the boys books they always played

poker my father played with the friends

in the house my dad had this crappy set

of plastic tips the great thing about

pokers if you've got a bunch of friends

and you play there's wonderful

camaraderie that happens we played low

ball we played five cards to seven card

stud one guy brings the beer one guy

brings the you know the

the dip and and no one gets hurt too bad

men with best jobs and completely

legitimate careers they find it exciting

for a few hours a week or night to

behave like bad boys yeah right now

we're you know at the University of

Wisconsin Memorial Union uh known to the

students as a student union you think

any any chance you could take a picture

no problem let's do it my poker career

started here so I remember this building

well

um it was right over here that I played

my first poker game

five dollar buy-in ironically you could

smoke pot openly in the union no one

would stop you but if you played poker

they'd roused you so apparently back

then in 1985 poker was worse than doing

drugs

you're in Lakeland Tennessee which is

just outside of Memphis we're about 30

minutes outside of Memphis to the east

side

um pretty small town don't even know if

we have a Town Square or anything or

downtown

looks like everybody's ready to play

what's up guys

the story of Chris Moneymaker is pretty

interesting he is an accountant and or

at least he was an accountant and he was

viewed as sort of every man

uh everyday guy accountant who looks

just like you and me grew up in

Knoxville Tennessee and growing up I

would hustle all the neighborhood kids

but with pool and then we started

throwing dice as kids and so basically

my whole life I was gambling in some

shape form or fashion finally when I

turned 18 I was able to go into cruise

ship casinos and play Blackjack and

started doing that and was addicted to

that I taught him Blackjack we were on

cruise ships and I taught him Blackjack

not the coolest dad in the world I mean

he actually took me when I was 17 and

showed me his box that he had fifty

thousand dollars in which at the time

was more money than God and uh took me

out and showed me that and I was in awe

that was his Gambler box got to college

sophomore year and figured out you could

bet on sports

worst thing in the world that ever

happened to me

so we started gambling throughout the

rest of the year and we ended up making

sixty thousand dollars uh between me and

my dad and uh

I bet these these four games are going

to win I ended up getting 15 000 on all

four games and lost every Every Which

Way in fashion you could

so I ended up losing all the money my

dad had no idea that I lost it

um I called him up uh went hung over

Sunday and told them that our account

was zero and he thought I was joking of

course he was beside himself and didn't

know what what even to say

very miserable life I remember at one

point I had 50 bucks to my name and me

and my buddy were deep into it together

we had 50 bucks we can go get something

to eat or we can you know get on the

Jets today

we got on the Jets and they lost damn it

foreign

the process essentially starts with a

single ply of paper that in on its own

doesn't appear particularly hand-worthy

this is what a deck this is what a sheet

of playing cards looks like this is the

size of defect that will scrap out a job

if we have a defect that is that size

then we have to throw away we have to

shred that deck of cards because that's

a marked deck

[Music]

I mean if you go back to the 14th

century 15th century clearly it was the

aristocracy that was playing with

playing cards they were truly a novelty

when printing technology got to the

point where they could be mass-produced

which is into the 1800s that's when you

began to see people bring playing cards

to the masses and that is the emergence

of a game based on a French game called

poku

and it roughly gave rise to the game we

know today as poker

the United States really starts in New

Orleans and that's the perfect place for

us to start because it was a real

Melting Pot

gambling seemed to be something that was

intrinsic to the the culture here and to

the way of life poker was considered a

form of gambling it seemed to have some

sort of immorality about it connected to

liquor and cigars and girls Etc

the Planters when they got to New

Orleans they took that sugar that cotton

sold it they had their years income in

their pockets when they went back up the

plantation that's from the gamblers

wanted to ride they wanted to ride with

the people when they had the optimum

chance for Revenue one of the first

written references to Poker by a guy

named Jonathan Green who was a reformed

Riverboat Gambler calls it the cheating

game of poker that was old crooked I

mean all of the professional card

players were cheats without exception

this is being used even in today's

Casino world and private games that hold

out devices when I do my game protection

classes I show fellows in the Southern

California card rooms using a holdout

device

the central section of the Ohio river is

sort of the incubator of Poker and the

flourishing of gambling in America

because of all the steamboats that went

up and down this River the gold rushes

where poker really heads West

think back to the days of the Wild Wild

West you know where everybody had a sick

shooter on their hip and laid it on the

table you know you think a Wild Bill

Hickok getting shot in the back you know

when he was playing poker by the turn of

the century people were playing poker

All Over America

[Music]

think about World War II five six

million men and women serving overseas

in battle now between fighting between

hostilities what do these men do well

they played poker to a large extent

playing cards were distributed to the

Troops by the millions these decks of

cards were sent out all over the world

throughout the War I think to a large

extent World War II may have been the

greatest single

booster of the Game of Poker as far as

his popularity than any other thing in

history the fighting men of America

because all of these six eight million

men who served overseas came back to

this country and started having Thursday

night poker nights this made poker into

America's pastime

[Music]

oh for the home games menus have been in

the denim with their weekly Game of

Poker anyone who saw The Odd Couple

remember the last Friday night game of

poker one quick hand before we go and

it's not really exciting poker it's

people playing for a couple of dollars

but it's still really the backbone of

the game for several years until you

have the emergence of the Texas Road

gamblers in the 1940s 1950s

guys like Doyle Brunson Amarillo slim

are really the sort of founding fathers

of modern poker

it was just like having a circuit we'd

go from one town to the other and play

poker our only Hazard was the hijackers

we'd get hijacked about every other week

they always said that winning the game

was the easy part getting out of town

with the money was the real problem

when me and Dodd walked in the game

would get real quiet and everybody that

had a short stack began to think of

it's about time to go water the horse or

something they could think you ought to

hear the excuses out here because they

got to leave the name of the game is

Holden something that sprung out of the

South and Southwest

in the 60s really these Road gamblers

migrated to Vegas set up shop here and

they knew that this is the top poker

game in the world

now it's headquarters for the greatest

game in town the world series of pokers

and since binions it's where it's at

that's where slim is heading to hang his

steps and Independence title can he do

it again

the odds are eight to one against him

and I'm Jimmy the Greek

to get married

amaryllis slim beats six people in the

1972 World Series of Poker and if you

think about it that's not that grand of

a feat but what he did from that

relatively small victory appearing on

The Tonight Show 11 or 12 times going

around the country telling these Tales a

larger in life almost iconic type figure

with the cowboy hat and the cowboy boots

he was the embodiment of what everybody

thought a a poker player was

there used to be that image

the connotation well if you're a poker

player you might be a little bit on a

sleazy side uh kind of in the other side

of the tracks you know I mean Poker was

sort of grouped in with the vices you

know it was like drug dealer stripper

poker player

probably go together really well I think

in a sense it's a whole anti-hero thing

you know because the poker player really

is in a lot of ways an anti-hero

Americans we don't have kings and queens

that we look back to so we've had to

invent our folk Heroes we like the

people that are self-invented we like

the bullshitter the con artist The

Gambler

no one gives up no one with women and

children give up I'm neither one of

those

Amarillo slim was was really the first

poker celebrity

well I think that admiralest Slim in a

sense was was very much like Babe Ruth I

mean he was the first

he's a controversial figure a person

that probably I think is to to a large

extent sadly forgotten by the modern era

but what he did for poker in 1972 in the

years after that really took this game

out of the back room to something that's

much bigger

well it's not too unusual or you know

occasionally the landslaught of the

butcher

this was a game that was very much Old

West Old Las Vegas the Old South and all

of a sudden In 1980 this Brash New York

kid that's 26 years old crashes into Las

Vegas with a full force of a firestorm I

absolutely electrified uh card rooms

when he came in in 1980 a kid by the

name of Stu Unger won the World Series

of Poker he won it again in 81. that was

back to back and it was the only times

we ever played the game he was a genius

they said he had animal-like instincts

and he was great for the game he's after

the kill now he was sort of like the

Keith Richards of Poker he was small and

but but sort of just wired with energy

and sort of boyishly appealing and he

just had a Mystique to him and and he

pretty much destroyed himself he started

doing cocaine he started blowing all his

money and he went off the face of the

poker world for a while

people lost interest after that

in the 1980s for the game of poker sort

of a rough time

let's do some

[Music]

what do you mean

we've been playing poker for two years

in the 80s the poker player was depicted

as uh uh the loser kid who couldn't get

a date who's playing with his buddies

borderline Dungeons and Dragons type

type guy I think that that was an

aversion to it because it was

an older person's game I mean that's

played by the old geezers

[Music]

EMG

Anchor Room about I think it was about a

week before Christmas this was uh 15

years ago or so

and they walked in one night and they

announced at midnight this room is

closing thank you all very much for

coming I mean the Stardust didn't have a

poker room there were no there was no

Poker Room at uh at Caesar's Palace for

many years

poker was not even offered in bing and

Horseshoe which held the World Series of

Poker every year they didn't even have a

poker room most of the year I mean for

15 years there was no Poker Room in

Binion horseshoe can you imagine that

all the poker rooms across the country

were shutting the rooms down making

their rooms smaller etc etc

it just wasn't in the Consciousness you

could even be a professional poker

player you know

and I remember when I met my wife

and I asked her out on the date

and she said yes and then you know she

found out I was a professional poker

player she was going to try to cancel

the date she's like oh great if you told

someone you know I'm a professional

poker player back in the late 90s

they'd kind of you know maybe feel sorry

for you and think you're broke all the

time or something like that

it was like it was a time for

individualism I guess

I mean just all the technology that came

around at different things the Walkman

bungee jumping I don't know what I love

I heard of bungee jumping I mean and

then of course comes the computer which

becomes a huge source of entertainment

people playing video games on the

computer so all of it has meant that

what were Collective activities what

were things that people shared with

friends and family and neighbors have

now become much more isolated at home it

was a time where everybody was just into

their own thing and it wasn't too much

group involvement it was kind of weird

and then all of a sudden Boom the

Renaissance the the just straight up and

it's just crazy what's happened

[Music]

I really do think that the new poker

phenomenon has created a new American

Dream

anyone has an opportunity to become a

star that's why polka is growing so fast

so big because everybody can win you

know everybody can play you know baby

it's just so massive so many people and

it's I mean it's amazing we went from 12

tables to 15 to 21 now to what you see

at 33. and you know less than a year

there's more action and more poker

played behind me on a daily basis than

anywhere in the world this is the

Augusta this is the Yankee Stadium of

all places to play poker and everybody

wanted to say those famous words I'm all

in and suddenly people were playing at

home and

reading books about it this is the

gambler's Bookshop we have published 134

books and we sell more than 3 000

different titles I got here in 1979 they

were perhaps 30 poker books well since

poker's exploded you know we we have

several hundred gaming titles and

gambling titles and maybe over 50 of

them a poker I'm coming up with new

poker titles all the time this

particular pair of Poker playing dogs by

the artist Cassius Marcellus Coolidge we

knew they had immense appeal but we did

not expect them to sell as well as they

did which was for close to six hundred

thousand dollars for the pair now that's

astonishing five years ago if I tell

disability I'm a professional poker

player they can look at me like what I

mean what are you doing you're gambling

your life away or that's very bad today

I'm playing poker wow that's really cool

and everybody yo brother yes it's

amazing to me how many a-listers and Big

Time athletes Michael Jordan plays a lot

of Poker you know Jay-Z uh plays in a

game with LeBron James where else can

Jay-Z and Lebron compete together they

want to compete against each other they

want to have fun together but they want

to compete I think I think it'd be a

shitload of fun to be a pro I think it'd

be pretty cool just to write down that

I'm a professional Gambler on the IRS

form they're like going to audit the

obviously but I think it'd be worth it

I've never had the feeling I'm playing

too much no if anything I've had the

feeling I'm playing too little what is

the attraction to Poker you know this

created such a focal boom it's

Independence it's uh courage a certain

magic that great gamblers have how do

you hold your face your poke of your

hand not letting the guy know that you

got a good hand I like people I like

trying to figure out where where they're

coming from and what's what's going on

in their head and what they're thinking

but you're probably not smart the other

guy because we ain't got caught you

can't lick anybody it's like if I don't

have a good fighter on the stool I can't

beat nobody it's not always the best 10

wins I think it's whoever plays it plays

the hand the best wins poker is mental

Warfare when you win a tournament it's a

fantastic feeling although I haven't

experienced that feeling in quite some

time it's a good feeling I remember

watch the purchase movements watch the

different things they do at the table I

mean I can't tell you all my secrets but

come on tell me a couple I don't know

why it's so big right now why is poker

gotten so big why did poker boom why did

poker become such a huge property as it

is it grew because things don't grow

that don't have growabilityness to them

why has poker had an increase in

popularity

it's all me baby

he was obviously disappointed for a

while but he's my dad and he forgave me

so I vowed to get the money back

started betting with bookies when I was

didn't have enough money on online to

bet when I lost all my money online

basically I would find local bookies and

lose to them and stiff them I end up

stiffing like four bookies in my life I

believe I spent the rest of my natural

life in college waking up at 10 o'clock

when I had eight o'clock classes to

check the lines to see what you know

what the spreads were for that night and

to do research for the rest of the day

until

three or four o'clock rolled around so I

could bet on the games for that night

then I would spend the whole night

watching the games and rinse and repeat

for the next day you know it's terrible

when you on Tuesday morning you wake up

and there's a phone ring and you have to

take it out of the wall because it won't

stop raining because the book is looking

for his money uh so basically I've been

a degenerate Gambler and uh every form

of gambling you can do up until

two years after uh College listen here's

the thing

if you can't spot the sucker in your

first half hour at the table

then you are the sucker the routers

actually started me playing poker

um I saw the movie I thought it was

great I just got top two pair on the

flop

I like the fact that it depicted

gambler's in their truest form they were

broke they lost it all that I'd been

through that I could relate to their

story

I was in New York I was doing some

trading stuff and I was pretty much up

to no good when a friend of mine he kept

going off to some poker club was called

the Mayfair club and at that time the

club was on 25th Street in a sort of

fancy looking apartment building you

went in a side door and down a flight of

stairs if they knew you they let you in

if they didn't know you someone would

come out and find out who you were the

Mayfair Club was a private club that

originally opened I think back in the

40s as a bridge and Backgammon Club

people became members of this club and

came in to play bridge and back in and

eventually they introduced poker to the

club as somebody who had only played in

home games the first time I walked in

there and there were all these hardened

gamblers and it was scary

foreign

Club was populated by lifelong dedicated

games players so I mean I had never been

exposed to that kind of Brilliance and

genius before I would say On Any Given

night there was probably more action in

that club than existed in the country in

the 90s it was the Heyday of underground

car clubs in New York and

played with people like Howard Lederer

yeah there's this game at the Mayfair

you should check it out I hear a lot of

like you know sucker stock Brokers there

which was kind of true people like Phil

Locke when he was a backgammon player

primarily and he was the fish in our

game in the beginning what a learning

experience the guys that were in this

world half of them went to Poker and

half went to Wall Street the Mayfair

Club attracted a lot of Wall Street

Paris

Eric Seidel how

Harrington a little bit of stuanger the

Mayfair is pretty well known now in

poker circles because uh so many good

players came from there and we started

to be known as you know sort of the New

Yorkers you know the New York school

Brown the is a nice word for Hustler you

make the rounds you go from place to

place you're making a rounds okay you're

going to see like you know you get up

late in the morning and you go to games

with people playing all night and I knew

you're coming to the game nice and fresh

and you're there just like picking off

ducks

when we were playing in this city my

partner myself Mike Sosa and we became

friends with the Brian koppelman and

David Levine Brian uh used to play in a

club and he uh one night stayed there

all night and played

and they have this great idea

to come up with a movie

I mean I remember the date it was

December 15th

and yeah I walked into the Mayfair

and from the second I walked in you know

felt the way like a religious person

would feel walking at the St Patrick's

for the first time or something

that first night I walked in a great

night I walked in

um and I decided to play Hold'em even

though I wasn't really a Holden player

and I thought like it'd be I'm ready to

try this and I sat down and I lost 750

bucks I left the Poker Club that night

and uh immediately called Levine my

riding partner said I know the movie

we're gonna write because it was that

apparent right then

every night that I'd go Dave would start

to come with me to the clubs every night

would go someone would turn to someone

else and say in the poker game of life

women are the ray in the poker game of

life women are the rake

we really wanted to tell the story these

people were fascinating we wrote the

first draft that's very close to the

final movie in about four months

but we

I don't know how the rounder script sort

of ended up on my desk the rejections

were obviously rejection is

you know supremely unpleasant and uh

yeah you go through moments where you're

going [ __ ] maybe this isn't any good

maybe nobody cares I got beaten by a

better man today you know Manny made a

tough call there but Ted Demi who's

since died and Ted called Harvey

Weinstein and mirror Max and Harvey read

it over the weekend and that Monday

morning called and offered us a deal for

it and I read the script I thought it

was great and I thought you know this

would be a really you know interesting

film December 15th we started shooting

that same year which was two years to

the day from when I first walked into

the Mayfair Club

I I just really like the script and it

was exploring you know a lot of the

scripts that we get are exploring one

subculture or another and as an actor

you kind of are drawn to those things

when you're drawn to the specificity of

some of those things so in this case it

was a subculture that was incredibly

specific and that these guys seem to

know a lot about I mean I I basically

knew nothing about poker I mean to Poker

to me was sitting around with my brother

and a couple of friends drinking beer

and smoking cigars and you know probably

spending more on the food and the

alcohol than we spent gambling

No Limit Texas Hold'em it's the Cadillac

of Poker this is why the World Series of

Poker is decided over a No Limit Hold'em

table I thought it was a great movie I

feel it's like the Bible for polka

around this the movie Rounders came out

the movie Rounders love the movie

Rounders free movies

rounders is unquestionably the movie

that the most people come up to me and

say you know that's the movie that of

yours that I really liked around is my

favorite poker movie of all time love

the movie Rounders Founders has got to

be the best poker movie ever made I've

seen like around there's 150 times and

hope this is like the best movie ever I

think why are the people having big

memories of rounders oh my God you are

talking to some nerds you were looking

for that third three but you forgot the

Professor Green that's a great movie

that movie got me into thinking about

poker all these kids seen this and they

said wow this is a good thing maybe I

can do this every professional poker

player will thank us for for bringing

million they say you know millions of

suckers into the game and making

millions of dollars for them

for poker players to have Matt Damon or

you know represent us you know in some

way and to have Hollywood makeup make a

film about it was a pretty exciting deal

this movie to some degree is about me

you know it's about my life it's about

my environment yeah I guess so they

stole all my lines in it so you Scout

him out I said I mop them up if you ask

the writers around us like koppelman

I mean he he took some of my story for

sure my brother was very much like Matt

Damon in that movie uh playing in

illegal card rooms in New York with

everybody around him disapproving of

what he did like just felt like I was

looking at my life I was playing in

private clubs

I had a girlfriend that really wanted me

to go to school

there was a moment there I mean the

first year I'm 19 dead broke he kind of

lost his way and actually completely

lost communication with the family my to

the point where my father actually filed

a missing persons report on him but

during that same year I found the

Mayfair Club

check I mean a lot of the storyline

there except for the cheating part

um was a story that mirrored my life

I didn't like the idea that they showed

to see me inside a poker again they

painted gambling in a more negative

light in some of the instances where

there was cheating and scamming and

stuff going on and I really don't think

there's that much of it in poker you

know the the thing that saddens me is is

once again you know

you know the hero the story was also

cheating and that's just not he the

heroes of Poker don't cheat

the World Series okay where celebrities

keep showing this year it was Matt Damon

and Edward Norton standing here with

Matt and Ed who play professional card

players in this film called rounders

we're a little out in front of it the

poker craze

um but when the movie came out it was a

bomb you know I mean it didn't open well

it didn't they didn't leave it in the

theaters very long I mean it you know

maybe didn't gross as much as they

initially hoped it would but you know it

was a small dark movie about cards it

was only in theaters like three weeks

and Miramax pulled it I think to protect

Matt

well when rounders first came out you

know not too many people really watched

it I think because poker was a really

first of all it was accepted socially I

mean you know it really wasn't I mean

you know

it gets it like it's the timepiece that

really wasn't

people weren't ready for it

I was this big heavy drunk degenerate

Gambler basically bottomed out on Sports

started playing poker and played online

and I didn't let anybody know what my

job that I what I did because I would

have frowned up on it that's not

something that you tell people is you're

a gambler that's very outside the box

for an accountant I was a traveling

accountant for deut and tush

um I'm making forty five thousand a year

it's doing all right uh and 9 11 hit and

lost my job and was out of work for four

or five months and uh it was a very very

bad time that's when I started playing

poker more and more on the internet we

were indeed you know eight thousand

dollars in credit card debt had a house

uh note we couldn't afford to pay two

car notes we couldn't afford to pay it

was Dire situation we had a baby on the

way so

that's when it gets scary and that

that's when it gets tough

Miranda shots in poker is no doubt took

place because of TV

two words t v that's the biggest engine

driving the Boom

[Music]

75 players started this tournament here

is the dealer scrambles getting ready to

shuffle we're down to the final tape I

think a lot of people grew up watching

the World Series of Poker you know the

old horrible ESPN version of it Stakes

are getting higher and the competition

more exciting he had a pair of fives

quite literally watching one of the old

poker shows if you were put in front of

a television and had the paint drying on

the wall next to it you would be drawn

inextricably to the paint

Dave needs a queen to win this pot in

the in the old days they didn't do it

right you know they showed this kind of

tournament where you don't know what's

happening you don't see anybody's cars

it seems to really be on the borderline

back to the 70s in the early 80s when

Stewie Unger won the two World Series of

Poker in a row 80 and 81 I think he's

thinking to himself maybe he might wait

but you never knew why Stu folded you

wanted to know Stu was an animal he

played very aggressively he was Raising

and re-raising and raising and you

wanted him what the hell when Stewie

folded you want to know why did he fold

and the queen doesn't we always knew

someday that poker was going to be a

spectator sport we knew we needed to see

the whole cards we knew it was going to

happen just who was going to do it first

I like many people learned the Great

American card game by sitting with

family members literally playing for

peanuts

I came out of law school he walked into

law firms and thought I just don't want

to do this for a living so I jumped in

and learned all that I could about this

world of Poker and found it to be

fascinating right so I went out and made

just a one hour documentary thinking

that's all that I was doing and then the

uh the show hit and it had fantastic

writing so I thought I am the genius who

will deliver to the broadcaster and the

programmer the next great thing that

they uh that they will find which is

going to be poker

when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939

I was just short of 16. we had still a

little packet of money left and we had

watches that's all we had left so we

quickly took off our watches and the

money and we pushed the money into the

hand it took gestapo were walking in the

front so we pushed the money and the

watches into his hands as he was holding

the rifle and we started running

and we wound up on October 2nd of 1947

we departed for New York in 1972 I went

into the business inventing when I

invented many toys I have now close to

100 patents Henry Ornstein to me is the

toy man he invented Transformers

Transformers more than meets the eye

the concept wasn't let's go make

television it was let's create a sports

league so I pitched it everywhere right

I had just gone with Norman Lear the

icon who created All in the Family and

met everybody in the uh the world of

Television so I went back out to all of

those people and said I got it it's here

it's gonna be poker all right we're

gonna make it into something that'll

really be followable it'll be like a

sport

um and literally nobody wanted to hear

it

I was actually a chess player

I started getting headaches after I

played for two or three hours

and my wife Susie said you know why

don't you try poker

I was watching the ESPN

program that was showing at poker

tournament I watched five Hands In A Row

I Remember

and nothing happened you didn't know

what happened

looks like he's ready for action so I

thought struck me the thought of boring

I was very lucky for me and for the game

of poker Henry was tired of watching

poker on television the way it was and

he asked me if people would show their

hole cards in a minute I thought about

it I knew right away that this could be

done

and I said emphatically no chance

Dole Bronson was one of them that was

against the golden he didn't want people

to see his cards and I'm sure most of

them didn't they didn't want people to

know how they played the hand you're

asking us to divulge your secrets we

can't we can't do that

Henry said they would do anything to get

on television so I became kind of a

consultant to what he was doing and we

actually put together a pilot

poker until now it's always been an

exciting game to play but unexciting to

watch by using the patented total poker

system viewers can watch high-stakes

poker games describe for everyone how

you came up with the concept of total

poker what it's all about with the

concept of total poker is something that

I invented

we have a very strong patent on it so no

one else can use it so anybody that owns

this

will have a tremendous property with

millions of viewers locked in we tried

and we couldn't get on a television we

couldn't get on these stations

[Music]

the Travel Channel stood up and said

we'll give you Prime Time real estate we

were the first people to attach the

whole cam to the table and put it on U.S

television the WPT format has been

exactly copied by everyone who has come

along

it's a four so there you have it the

amateur the World Poker Tour is the one

that should get credit for the explosion

and popularity of Poker

without the WPT cam as we call it there

would be no show I mean there's nothing

that has changed a game more in the last

25 years than the camera under the table

there's something extremely attractive

about the nerves of somebody to to Bluff

they show you the hold cards so you know

what these guys have when they're

bluffing when they're not bluffing

people at home they can play the

armchair quarterback they're like call

him call him call him call him call him

and he starts to study and him and I'll

call him call him they see one guy only

and the other one has the best hand and

he folds you like oh you dummy

I remember seeing my first hole card

camera show and it was the greatest to

me it was the greatest thrill I'd ever

had in my life watching this live poker

event gave me goosebumps flashing there

were a few Skeptics uh when we were

first coming out with the Royal Poker

Tour the first season uh player saying

wait we don't want people seeing the

cards maybe that's going to give

something away but as soon as the first

show aired and all of a sudden it was a

buzz we just went through the roof all

of a sudden the players didn't they

didn't care they saw that they were

becoming stars and they said you know I

can live with that

I look at every two hour World Poker

Tour show as a five-act Shakespearean

play that has plots sub plots uh

villains and everything that you would

find in a great story

when a game is shared on television

especially something like poker then

people feel when they're playing

themselves in their own communities that

they're part of some larger Network

that's also magically playing all across

the country and they're part of some

national phenomena instead of just

themselves

I think that one of the great injustices

is that Henry Ornstein doesn't get the

credit he rightfully deserves for the

poker craze here's a man who survived

five concentration camps who was one of

himmler's Jews he came up with the idea

of the whole card camera

poker is not on television poker's not

the huge business it is online in

casinos every place without what Henry

Ornstein did there's no question in my

mind and he is the reason for the poker

boom I would say Henry had the right

vision and Steve Lipscomb was able to

sell it to stations and after that you

know history was made Steve gives

incidentally

paying me a royalty for using my idea

right now

to make it on TV and become like a

sports star

it's just amazing

look we have 960 000 people have the

philhami cell phone game in the U.S

you know my book play poker like the

pros hit the best seller list for four

weeks you know my DVDs are going crazy

the companies I have a piece of have

gone crazy we have the poker brat

clothing company we have Phil's house

publishing company we have just projects

after projects and you just see poker

going crazy

right now is a dangerous time for me I'm

I'm surrounded by so many people that

think I'm great that are idolizing me

that it's easy to get sucked up

I mean there's nothing more glamorous

than to live your own life

[Music]

live on the edge

lots of women

good times if you can fund that

by playing cards hey who doesn't want

that I think as far as how people are

perceived to play poker

um televisions really changed that a lot

you started to root for people which was

really really important had all sorts of

characters

[Music]

poker players were all considered like

the fleas or like you know they'll put

them over in the corner don't be

bothered with them and now they're all

rock stars

and we start seeing people going after

these players asking for autographs and

I was just floored I couldn't believe

that people were getting autographs from

professional gamblers

that's weird uh being recognized now and

uh being the person I was always the

person that's like oh yeah look at uh

there's uh Barry Greenstein there's

Daniel ground and there's Phil Ivey

there's all these people that you see on

TV and you're like it's giving a chance

to meet them and I would be like one of

those people where people come up to me

and

it's all been surreal and it's all

happened so fast

that's the American dream baby that's it

right there yeah 20 years ago they

wouldn't even admit what they do for a

living and now people want you know

people climber for the autograph

look one day you can be sitting on your

couch watching the best poker players in

the world play on the World Poker Tour

and the next week literally you can go

and sit down and compete with those guys

and unlike any other sport you could win

[Music]

to good and bad of Television is

television made everybody a movie star

he put somebody in front of the camera

they want to be a ham they want to look

five minutes out of hand where folk is

very simple either you're in

you're out or you're raised does it take

you 15 minutes to make these decisions

there are so many huge differences

between the people who were doing this

before 2003 and the people who came into

it after 2003 in terms of attitude and

there are people who are clearly

performing for TV

they come in with these glasses or

backwards cap and they're coming with

all these little tchotchkes they're

wrestles

okay they're complete jerks I hate

sunglasses I think sunglasses should be

banned from poker

the young kids like you know with the

glasses and the doll glasses and the bag

was hot so the few that I know

socially they're like inept they're like

[ __ ] you don't look at those guys

and it's like watching you know George

Clooney and Brad Pitt in Ocean's 11.

it's like watching guys your exact human

scale and and you just think like that

guy people wanna people wanna be famous

too and you go what I mean you want to

what I want to be famous what does that

mean you want to be famous for what I

don't know I just want to be famous and

you go like well

okay the old time gamblers what made

them so interesting was that they were

operating out on the edge

you know they were on the dark side and

today

you know it's watching a guy filling up

the gas at the station

you know I don't understand it I in the

old days what is now Texas Hold'em was a

game that was developed by the Riverboat

gamblers

the skin the unsuspecting guy

now television is using it to skin us at

the end of the day I would bet anything

that this is simply a fad

Ed

well you know I went for four months

without incoming I had a good run

playing poker but still doesn't make up

for

no income money was a hoot I mean he's

he's just a great guy and we hired him

to do our accounting he was basically

our comptroller handled all the books

for the restaurants I got that job my

old boss

um wanted me to go in for a Consulting

gig just to get some money you know

they're going to pay me a Consulting gig

to come into this restaurant he he

[Music]

tied playing poker online than he

actually did doing the books I mean he

you know that was his passion more so

than accounting I can guarantee you that

[Music]

I had 60 bucks to my account I play a 39

tournament poker stores and when I

signed up I thought it was a cash

tournament and uh found out that you

have to win the whole thing to get a

seat to the next week which got you a

seat into the World Series

I was trying to get eight thousand

dollars eight thousand dollars paid off

my credit card when you get down the

final table I was the chip leader and

when you play these things you talk

deals at the end they're giving away

three seats to the main event of the

World Series and the fourth place is

eight thousand dollars in cash the seat

was ten thousand dollars but if you win

a seat you can't sell the seat you have

to take the seat and you have to play

um so I get no cash for that

so what I try to do is talk deal with

people when we go down to six hands say

I just want the eight thousand dollars

and I'll go away so I started to give my

chips away slowly trying to make sure

I've lasted long enough to get down to

four people but at the same time not

have a whole lot of chips My Buddy saw

that I was trying to make the deal on

he's watching on his computer at another

place so he called me and said I'll give

you five thousand dollars I'll take half

your action in the tournament plus they

give you a thousand dollars for

traveling especially sort of six

thousand and this was like man you gotta

go do this you've got to get in the

World Series you're right there this is

your chance

so I end up winning the seat uh I was

ecstatic about wanting to see you know I

get to go pointing the World Series of

Poker

buddy calls me up a little bit later

said that 5 000 that you hope that I

have for you I I don't have it I had a

bad run I don't have it you know

obviously and now I'm furious I have a

seat with no cash

Danny negranu and welcome to PokerStars

the world's largest online poker site

the internet absolutely changed

everything I I call what happened to

poker in the in the post internet age a

sonic boom I mean literally it was like

boom

my sense is rounders gave people the

vocabulary the vernacular and then the

whole cam LED people inside of the

thought process and let people think oh

I get it I love watching these people I

want to be a part of it and then they

were able to go to their computers and

they didn't have to take the risk in

public switch on log on money in boom

I'm playing poker I mean that is just

genius and you know not to get on a

plane

you don't have to drive to the airport

pay for the hotel tip the dealers it's

stunningly convenient

in the mid 90s the internet poker world

started up there was a one site that

started up with a little tiny site and

people started hearing about it it was

word of mouth in the poker rooms then

they started taking a couple

advertisements and magazines and even I

thought I was kind of you know how can

you trust the internet the cyberspace

back then I wasn't quite sure what to

make of it or if it would catch on I

thought it was a joke you know people

playing online who was going to play

online when you can't see the person I

mean isn't the isn't it the biggest part

of Poker looking somebody in the eyes

all of a sudden one day you're looking

as a thousand people online and you look

a few months later there's 20 000 people

online sure enough I was proven wrong

again originally I wasn't a fan of

Internet poker either because my very

first columns on the subject warned of

cheating let's just see if I have the

concept down you start off by sending a

big chunk of your cash to somebody

in cyberspace

and then you call them up on the

telephone

and then he shows you a pictures of

of some playing cards he claims you have

and pictures of playing cards he claims

he has

and then he tells you whether you're

lost

and whether you should send more money

you are playing against a computer you

are playing against somebody you don't

know

and don't tell me that someone's not

going to take that edge I really watch

the online World develop back in 1989

when I played when I was actually

playing for play money there was no real

money involved then Along come the real

money sites the first turn on poker site

was a site called Planet poker it's

surprising you don't hear about planet

poker anymore because they should have

had the entire industry and Planet poker

stumble along their software really

wasn't very efficient so they'd crash

all the time then Along Comes Paradise

poker and Paradise poker now was the

king of the universe

then Along Comes This upstart called

Party Poker an opportunity came up for

me to go to work for this company it was

going to develop the software for a

company that became known as

partypoper.com I'm actually the one that

said this is the name you need they had

six domain names picked out for this

site and they said which one do you like

when I got to India I said well this is

a no-brainer Party Poker and that was

how Party Poker got launched the the

butler bubbles um you know throughout

history the.com bubble for example at

the end of the 1990s and so on where you

had a wild speculation based on the

returns of a few successful Enterprises

fueled us irrational exuberance

foreign

[Music]

maybe 2001 an Indian guy named anurag

Dixit wrote The Party Poker platform

which became the largest site in the

world by far it grew faster than

Microsoft or any other company in that

world and the lady that hired me her

name was Ruth parasol who started the

company became the most successful

businesswoman in the history of the

Earth with no outside investors and in

less than four years went public for

nine billion dollars with a B Party

Poker was by far the biggest in the

world they were Coca-Cola of online

poker McDonald's of online poker that

type of company and growing and becoming

that big of an entity

eventually PokerStars came on and I

think they took it a little more

seriously I think their software is

better I created PokerStars be

introducing online poker tournaments

the boardroom table and the poker table

and then Along Comes Full Tilt Poker and

I think you know Full Tilt Poker I

helped design the software photo poker I

believe well so I have to say I believe

we have the best offer and I really

believe we do

fully leveraged reading risk and reward

here isn't much different than reading

it on a spreadsheet

we play because poker's like business

you know the software development and

the marketing were you know we're led by

a lot of people who understood poker for

the first time you know really

none of the other poker sites that came

before Full Tilt

um

were run by poker players and if you're

a poker player then you should be

playing there

[Music]

I don't think that there's an important

human activity that didn't find its way

on the internet right you know some of

those things

just turned out not to be particularly

interesting or functional like buying

groceries and some of those things

turned into porn

you know but maybe one notch below porn

in terms of popularity

it's poke

early on internet players were kind of

scoffed at oh he's just an internet

player was was really an insult and I

really think that's all changed I'm an

old school poker player you know I'm a

guy that likes to play live poker where

you can look your opponent in the eye

when you don't get that opportunity when

you play online poker and I'm highly

impressed with the young online kids

that are now coming into the real poker

World these guys are phenomenal poker

players

if it wasn't for the internet some of

this new breed wouldn't be around today

the the game became so big over the past

five years and and the the prize pools

were so big that they they don't

appreciate the fact that the older

players

had to work for it

I have a lot of respect for the kids

that you know that kind of grew up

online playing poker I think it's very

cool I mean when you think that you can

sit behind your computer and you can you

know pay all your bills just by your

mind beating somebody else's mind it's a

beautiful concept I guess when you play

poker as a living then you don't have

any bus you're your own bus and I think

that's what a lot of people like about

it my goal was to make enough money to

pay for a shore house that somewhere

with friends

I guess I did that and more and all the

other stuff that came after that was uh

just a pleasant surprise I'm 22 and

poker's allowed me to play uh in Vegas

in London and Barcelona and Aruba Costa

Rica and now I play um eight high-stakes

cash games at once online and I've

vlogged like way over a million hands

online poker is the great equalizer so

that you can really crush the learning

curve this is why you can have young

kids

who who just played online actually have

more experience than some Old Pros let

me tell you how the internet screwed up

poker okay

when a guy sucks out on the river on the

internet

you cannot take the guy out in the

parking lot and you cannot break his

[ __ ] knees

My Generation kind of gets a bad rap in

the poker industry like you know oh

those young internet kids who had all

that success they can sometimes be cocky

they can sometimes be a little arrogant

they can sometimes uh be a little more

blase about the game maybe have a lot

less respect for the money and how it

was earned because it wasn't really

earned we kind of got it quickly right

it's a great way to do life right I mean

you can have success at the young age

and you can have the energy and the

youth and exuberance to be able to enjoy

it for once my generation has it right

the people especially the young guys who

are coming along thinking I'm a good

poker player I'm going to win a big

tournament and then I'm going to be a

poker celebrity and then I'm going to

get paid to make appearances and you

know

PokerStars are one of the other big

sites is going to pay me big bucks to

represent them

you know that that era is gone already I

guarantee you 50 percent of the players

here in this room think they're

eventually going to hit their American

Dream through poker and it's not going

to happen

scary thing

[Music]

I think it's really

it's like crying shame what happened

when Bill Frist like kind of threw this

bill back door it was really seedy and

really dirty well you know I I see the

uigea is one of the great pieces of

political hackery

that we've seen in a long time these

people our months are moral

monstrosities really just kind of scummy

politics to do it the way that he did

but he basically essentially it's called

the unlawful internet gaming Enforcement

Act which he tacked on to a port

security bill which has nothing to do

with like guys playing poker on the

internet in their underwear but he was

able to do it at like the 11th Hour

I call it the Midnight Express that was

snuck through in midnight and attached

to the port security Bill why it

specifically said

you cannot use the internet for playing

poker I mean basically the UI Gea no one

saw this coming after the uig EA got

passed the executives for Party Poker

decided to pull out of the United States

saying goodbye to 85 percent of their

customer base their lawyers advised them

that you know what you're doing may be a

gray area may be deemed illegal sometime

where shareholders could sue you and

you'll lose back all your money so in

truth all the publicly traded companies

that were associated with online gaming

sites pulled out of the United States

back when they passed that law in

October 2006 and all the privately held

companies did not it's made it harder

for people to get their money on the

sites

and it and it's actually scared some of

the sites out of the U.S market if they

fly into the United States the people

that are the owner owners of the

companies or even even board members

they're being arrested on site so uh

they have uh taken their money and run

all right

those are the only Republicans

many of my friends in the Congress voted

for this bill because they said well

this way we can stop young people

from coming in from doing something they

really shouldn't be a 16 year old kid

who's gambling Etc at the same time as

it's horse racing we're carving that out

you can bet on horse racing or you can

play blackjack or you can buy lottery

tickets where you have almost no chance

of winning and there's no skill involved

but you can't play poker yeah I mean the

real thing is whether or not it gets

separated out from other forms of

gambling which which I think it deserves

to

poker does exist in a sort of

interesting world as far as its legal

status goes the companies that have that

operate online poker have long argue

that it's a game of skill and part and

not purely a game of chance and

therefore is not illegal not separate

from other gam casino games as far as

its status and you know whether you can

play it over the Internet the government

clearly does not take that view the

online poker is something that is not

outlawed by any federal law the UI Gea

didn't make anything illegal that was

previously legal so it didn't change the

law it changed some of the enforcements

of the law you've got all these kind of

entrenched gambling interests that you

can't really write an effective law

that would truly Outlaw something like

Poco without affecting these other

things so instead they decided to punt

and just try and write a vague law

that would scare Banks you also have

sort of a dispute over the

interpretation of a law called The Wire

act it was passed in 1961 and this law

you know is used by the government often

to apply to online gambling including

online poker and the wire act says

basically in a nutshell that you're not

allowed to bet on Sports you know across

state lines over the telephone

now how is playing poker where you're

actually making the actions poker is

clearly a game of skill where you

actually are actually making the actions

that make you win or lose money how is

that like betting on someone else's

sports game it's ridiculous to suggest

that poker is I mean I remember seeing

Chris Ferguson he was like I was making

breakfast one morning and I saw him

testifying in front of Congress and he

had taken one dollar on an Internet site

and he turned it into twenty thousand

without ever having more than 10 percent

of his stack at risk

um it's not you know I think which is

why it's legal in California it was

proven to be

um a game uh of skill this is not

something that has really been settled

by the Supreme Court for example

it's a good question is there a

difference between a gambler and a poker

player well uh you know a lot of poker

players take pride and they think it's

interesting to say you know I'm not a

gambler you know because I play so well

I'm playing within the odds so therefore

I'm not really gambling no wrong there's

also you might have the edge but many

things can happen over a career that put

yourself in that gambling mode you might

go broke even though you have the edge

so you're still gambling and don't kid

yourself you got to know when to hold

them know when to fold them know when to

walk away know when to run you never

count your money when you're sitting at

the table there will be time enough for

counting when the deal is done great

philosophy

how many of these guys have been up at

the top and then been busted you know

how many times you know it's a cyclical

thing because you know come on a lot of

these guys are sick degenerate gamblers

on top of being poker players you know

they've been you know 100 Rand or two

cockroaches running off the wall you

know so uh did I ever go broke let me

see you know Dole Brunson said he's been

broke 20 times

um I know I've done that yeah well

actually I'm broke right now let me

think

um probably close to six or seven

thousand times

wish I was broke most of the time that

would be at least getting me up a level

higher I could fill a whole room with

people who've gotten big scores in poker

and are totally broke

but that's no reason not to have

gambling I don't think and it's one of

the reasons why I don't have any ill

Wills sure I feel bad when I've taken a

person's last dollar

but the reality is I didn't make them do

that and I don't think I would feel any

less guilty if I was selling an

overweight person a gallon of ice cream

at the store

or if I wasn't selling cigarettes at the

store I mean you know people sell

cigarettes and could cause lung cancer

should I not sell cigarettes and then

maybe I shouldn't so you know bleach

white flour either because that's known

to give people problems as well or sugar

you know should I check to see if they

have diabetes gambling is a form of

entertainment and if you abuse that

service that we're providing as dealers

and casinos

whose fault is that any legislation

would almost certainly have to pass by

the top Republican on the house

Financial Services committee Spencer

Backus who opposes any federal right to

gamble and thinks it's addictive my main

concern is the Youth of this country you

know whether it's drugs whether it's uh

gambling it's just inconceivable for me

that we can live in America and somebody

in Washington D.C can tell a guy who's

been working all day long that he can't

go home at night and plan a 20 satellite

online if that's what he wants to do

with his money you have a portion of

this country that that doesn't

understand freedom they just don't get

it and they remind me of days of

prohibition

when Truman was a young man he learned

to love poker early on and when he was

courting his wife Bess he wrote her a

letter acknowledging that while he was

deeply religious that he did play poker

and that sometimes religious people

looked down on that but he said I don't

think it's such a bad thing to do and

Harry Truman would have weekly poker

games at the White House

with cigars and bourbon God bless him

Eisenhower was a great poker player

Obama played in a regular game for 10

years once or twice a week I mean that's

how he met so many other you know

Senators I mean we know that President

Grant loved to play poker we know that

President Harding loved to play poker

and the Rumor was one time that he bet

the White House china on a set of cars

and lost I mean Richard Nixon allegedly

financed his First Congressional

Campaign by playing poker what does that

tell you my favorite historical example

is the new deal and I never had any

history professors who said well yeah

this is a poker tournament obviously

he's talking about cards it's a new deal

the poker Editions

behavior of soldiers and politicians and

diplomats has been completely integral

to how this country has worked

from the beginning which makes Bill

Frist and the other sponsors of that

bill

so short-sighted and cynical and

ridiculous

they're leaving billions of dollars on

the floor because if they tax it and

regulate it which is what everybody

wants everybody wants to give the US

government money it's like here let's

take this money take it what a lot of

people don't understand is the law

didn't get passed for reasons of

morality oh that's right bet first cards

later those people are using the

morality argument or just Pawns in the

game of the politicians who are getting

money from other lobbying groups to

Lobby against poker and they could care

less about the moral stance

my fear is that that the online action

will be controlled by the cenos such as

Hera's which are notorious

for squeezing every last Diamond nickel

out of every situation it's a big big

money opportunity that was missed by

them and obviously they're trying to get

in on the bandwagon now and you don't

blame them for it well I think the

reason that the poker World Views the

brick and mortar casinos sometimes in a

negative light is they feel as though

their the interests are not aligned I

think there was a real question in 2010

when people were talking about

legalizing online poker federally as far

as how this was going to work because

you had these big companies that were

not operating

online poker in the United States they

were doing what they would say was the

right thing they were keeping out of the

US now they wanted to operate in the U.S

companies like Party Poker you have

Caesar's entertainment major Casino

company runs the World Series of Poker

has this brand name in poker they want

to do it at the same time though all the

US players are with basically two

websites

um PokerStars and full til poker so if

you're Caesars or you're you know party

or whatnot

it's not necessarily great that these

guys are the incumbents and they have

all the US players

in January of 2010 people were betting

that there was a 70 or 80 percent chance

of Poker being legalized and I just

could tell from my reporting there that

there was a there were things that were

changing

um

when you look at the poker boom first of

all you know the kindling that got it

all started I think is just that poker

such a great game

and people love it they're fascinated by

it

now you can watch the game on TV

and then try it on the internet and then

all of a sudden watching on TV is more

interesting

so all that was happening

and the money maker happened you know

maybe that was just the final can of

gasoline we needed to really make it all

just explode obviously I would say that

it comes down to the money maker effect

Money Maker Money Maker his name was

money maker with a made for TV name

Chris Moneymaker Chris Money Maker

happened in 2003 well it's a it's a it's

an amazing Story I mean that was the

story that that launched the poker boom

yeah what Chris Moneymaker did was he

brought in online to a satellite and

what a satellite is is just a smaller

buy-in tournament to get you into a

bigger tournament he costs I think it

cost me 40 or 45 dollars he qualified

for 27 on poker stars in about five more

years we'll be saying invested ten

dollars it gets lower every time we talk

about it at 60 bucks on my account I

play a 39 tournament poker stores

mediocre guy live in a mediocre life who

all of a sudden jumps online figures out

he's got a knack at this game pulled

together all this money from friends I

mean that he didn't even have to go take

this chance go to my dad and another guy

get 2008 from them instead of paying my

credit card debts I'll take it out to

Vegas with me like it

genius the lights of Las Vegas

illuminate the largest cash prize of any

competition more than the Masters

Wimbledon or Kentucky Derby two and a

half million dollars

this is the World Series of Poker

[Applause]

[Music]

you know I went out to Vegas a week

early and uh the reason I did it as most

of my experience was online so I went

down there I played some No Limit cash

games to get experience to make sure I

didn't have tells but I make my deal

with myself that I'm only going to play

poker well that deal gets thrown out the

window when I see the sports book that's

a whole different story I guess I lost a

lot of it in sports but by the time the

tournament started I was broke you know

part of the romance of this event is the

fact that anybody can pay the ten

thousand dollars and play alongside some

of the all-time greats like Johnny Chan

it's a poker Fantasy Camp of sorts but

the reality is most everyone here has no

chance of winning

the morning of I woke up and I was

nervous as could be and as I started

playing I saw you know heard some guy

has 20 000 in chips already like wow I

haven't played a hand some guys got

twenty thousand this is a disaster

so we start day three and I'm walking I

can't find table 77 and we'll get all

over for the worst table 77 or oh that's

the TV time look

great on the table with Johnny

chantusiasts to my left and I'm on the

TV table how would letters at the table

too it's me him and Howard at the same

table that's just beautiful I'm

petrified oh yeah Johnny Chan's always

fun fearsome sight at the table he's

called the perfect player Howard Lederer

is called the professor of Poker he

looks smart he plays smart

there is our featured table for the day

and a good look at Chris Moneymaker just

a regular guy an accountant for a

restaurant chain here with the big boys

I told myself I'm not going to let him

beat me up just don't do anything don't

play any hand that's going to make you

like an idiot and uh don't do anything

stupid now looking at the whole cards of

Johnny Chan

with a king Jack

next in line Chris Moneymaker

Chris Moneymaker interestingly had never

played in a line I'm trying to pick up

information on the two guys at the table

I have new information on Howard led her

a giant Chan so I keep staring at both

of them trying to pick up information as

my big blind and uh put my card

protector on my chips and I'm sitting in

the one seat and here he is in Las Vegas

staring down two of the biggest names in

the game Howard Lederer and Johnny Chan

paying so much attention John Ed rays

and Howard had to re-raised it was back

on Johnny I thought and he's using their

techniques on them right now

you know it's up to you right

yeah

I never looked down he just flat out

forgot Norman I didn't think I ever

looked at my cords I could have pocket

aces right there I don't know and uh I

go God that's kind of I didn't want to

look at idiot on TV I can't believe I

just did that and Johnny just looks at

me goes don't worry kid that won't make

it on TV it loosened me up from there I

was just like you know what I've done

that might as well just play from here

on out this is a great spot for Chris

Moneymaker come on and he goes all in

and Howard does indeed fold and Money

Maker backs letterer down

I can breathe again

and Chris Moneymaker takes the pot maybe

if your Chris Moneymaker lawn you're

wondering if you've got what it takes to

to beat these big boys they picked on me

a lot I picked it up a little bit

I didn't play position very well I just

beat my head and over and over and over

checking the clock this could be the

final hand of the session players are

gonna want to make some fireworks before

they hit the exits and we're about ready

to go on a break and I'm on the butt

with an acid of Hearts over to Chris

Moneymaker

he calls he always defends his blind

against me pissed me off because he

always outplayed me after the Flop and

it was so frustrating

so he calls is like all right just give

me a flop he's got a king five suited

and this is a good flop for money maker

the rest of the players have left the

table for the break and right now we

have the perfect player against the

amateur of amateur Mano Amano in this

hollowed out poker ring Johnny betz I

raise and he Rewritten up push all in

it's like this is just a nightmare all

right

Johnny's gonna put it on the line I need

a heart dealer Johnny's best chance is a

deuce for a straight so Fury he has Ace

King I know he has Ace King to be

putting his money in there oh yeah man

bad shape I was like wow I got my money

in really good here no deuce the turn

card a nine of hearts and that's gonna

do it Chris money maker with the ace

high flush takes down Johnny Chan wow

this is like Buster Douglas knocking out

Mike Tyson once I put him out know I saw

how he put his money in drawing to

nothing it's like wow you know

he beat me up for that long and he's

probably didn't have much

maybe I can start gambling and these

players aren't as good as I thought

just got a lucky hand and caught him

that time I came in nervous as could be

and I've loosened up I hope I can finish

this thing off and be a real money maker

I don't know rookie Chris Moneymaker is

still alive

[Music]

here comes the river it's another king

from Chris Moneymaker another good hand

for Chris Moneymaker money maker with

the better Kicker a huge hand for Chris

moneymakers only an eight is Gonna Save

Chris Moneymaker here comes the turnout

an amazing turn of events Chris

Moneymaker got the miracle eight on the

turn wow what a move by Chris Moneymaker

he put his tournament life at stake on a

pair of Threes he's out of the

tournament if he loses that pot it's not

poker strategy that anybody would write

up how far can this young kid from

Knoxville go

we're still looking at Phil Ivey in the

field and I still think he's the man to

be

it's been a long day you know

everybody's tired everybody's yawning

and I'm on the button with an ace Queen

the Flop comes two queens a monster flop

for Chris Moneymaker who makes three

queens I'm like Yahtzee all right no

one's gonna have any of this I'm gonna

everybody's gonna fold when I bet the

Flop so Phil Ivy jokes Jason Lester

Jackson's on me and I only bet 75 000. I

want to keep people around I thought he

might have pushed it more generally Ivy

calls and Lester folds is 10. the next

person knocked out doesn't make the

final table so Jason Lester here comes

the turn in it's a nine and that gives

Phil Ivey a Full House miracle on Fourth

Street for Phil either turn Court comes

annoying which fills up Phil Ivey he has

nines full of queens now to my three

queens

he checks and at this point okay I'm

right in the hand I mean he's got 400

000 left

so I said all right well I'm gonna go

ahead and get this hand over with I'm

about 200 000 and just end it and we'll

go on to the next one that's what I'm

thinking Molly he is all in and quickly

called the pot size is one million now

Money Maker is disgusted he never could

have assumed the two nines in the hole

for Phil Ivey he flips over two nines

and I'm just disgusted which would knock

out Phil Ivey money makers look at

Bernice on the river

[Applause]

an incredible knockout blow for probably

the best player left in the tournament

who's gone down oh Amazing Phil Ivey

loses with a full house to a better Full

House I'm so excited Kansas history one

I get to go home and go to bed two I've

got a huge ship lead over 2.1 million in

ships I'm by far the biggest triple here

I can sit there and Coast on the final

table and probably get third place so

I'm on cloud nine welcome back to the

2003 World Series of Poker just three

players remaining in the tournament that

means 836 people once we hit

three-handed though I turned into a

Madman I just started raising every pot

I was beating the living hell out of

them

[Music]

Money Maker remains a one-man Posse he's

a bounty hunter who keeps just piling up

skips

the River card is the final card for Dan

Harrington

approaching 1 30 in the morning final

table has taken 11 hours or so to this

point don't do it and it's a three of

hearts money maker doesn't get to either

draw

and the paranoids is best

come on Chris

Moneymaker going all in

play from Money Maker who missed his

draws has nothing and now has put Sam

farhall All In

he would have to put all his chips in if

he lost this pot he would be out of the

tournament

it's Chris bluffing this time no it was

a game that he used to play as a kid

your mom and say okay quiet and so the

first one it said something or moved

I lost and the other one got a prize

I've seen him sit in one spot and just

be quiet you know and you're talking you

know 12 year old kid being quiet for six

hours

they did it

Sam Farah trying to draw something out

of Chris Moneymaker but he's like a

statue afraid to make any sort of move

he is not gonna do it Chris Moneymaker

Bluffs Sam farha out of a big stack of

money and considering this situation I

know we're early in the century but

that's the bluff of the century what a

play from Chris Moneymaker

[Music]

foreign

[Music]

two pair for Chris Moneymaker

that day

that time I was the best player on that

table and I knew it

oh goggle and let's go

Sam Farah goes all in at Crest Money

Maker is gonna call it

surreal you know I I get them in I have

two pair any flop top pair and uh we get

all the money I know I'm by far the best

hand throw our cards over I do have the

best tan I'm just like please hold on

and with two pair Chris Moneymaker a

statistic in the final knife we were all

there in the office at four o'clock in

the morning everybody just kind of

waiting you know thinking you know this

could end soon to win this title at the

outset is now closing in on making it an

incredible reality

I think Chris Moneymaker is probably one

of the most important figures in poker

today just because of what he symbolizes

turn card

is an eight of diamonds no help yet and

farha to stay alive Christmas

definitely starts the boom of online

poker because people realize with like a

small investment

you could become a millionaire as you

Hollywood can't write a script like that

if money maker can't do it I can't I can

do it this could be the last card of the

2003 World Series of Poker the money

maker effect is really the best

representation of our essence

and character

[Music]

hey I can't sit here and describe how it

feels it's just it's a phenomenal

feeling that words cannot describe I

can't even begin to describe it what

what was going through my mind out of

the virtual poker room and in a very

Swift and unlikely manner is atop the

poker world this is beyond fairy tale

it's inconceivable I mean Chris

Moneymaker changed this game

when he won it all

uh I got to tell you the professional

poker players should be you know kissing

the Tennessee took us of that kid

it's a great sports like story it's a

great David versus Goliath story and uh

and so money makers 2003 Championship

was just great for our game because

everybody said If Money Maker can do it

why can't I do it

if I was to point to two absolutely

watershed moments in poker history in

the modern era that absolutely

catapulted this game from back room to a

Major League sport in a sense it would

be two things it would be Admiral slim

winning the 1972 World Series of Poker

and the after effects and certainly

Chris moneymakers win in 2003 you went

from online 40 bucks to two and a half

million dollars in front of a Nation

after Chris Moneymaker you had a a group

of young online players that were

actually making a living playing online

that's the epitome of the American dream

I mean people came to this country with

nothing in their pocket with the ideas

of someday seeing hundreds just dripping

out of them well Money Maker did the

exact same thing he went for from

nothing to a millionaire overnight

that's what people want and as it shows

in the next two three years it went from

839 to 26 to 56 to 87. you went up in

three years tenfold in the number of

participants everyone thinks they can

win it I wouldn't be surprised if

there's kids growing up that are 17 or

18 and have a Chris Moneymaker poster on

the wall instead of a Kobe Bryant one

not so sure how good that would look on

the wall but you know I mean that's

that's the point is that people say you

know what Chris Moneymaker can do it I

can do it too

welcome to poker for dummies I'm Chris

Moneymaker from Nashville Tennessee and

yes that's my real last name the best

part about the Chris Moneymaker story is

I heard that one of his Partners was a

guy named David Gamble and I was like

yeah come on right okay I believe the

money maker thing but now you that's

just like Urban myth and then one day

I'm in the elevator at the downtown

Binion's Horseshoe and I'm like hey

Chris whatever I'm meeting him or for

the second or third time you know and he

goes my buddy David and I'm like oh yeah

David gamble joking around like I heard

about the David gamble story and he goes

yeah that's my name David again I'm like

and then I'm freaking out I'm like are

you really and what any got to the point

where he realized I was in such

consternation and disbelief he actually

pulled out his ID and there I looked at

it it's a David Gamble and I was like

that's the epilogue that's right that

people don't even know his buddy's name

was David gamble let's get more money

maybe there is a God I mean look down

he's like well look whoa look at this

guy and his partner's name is gamble

okay these guys gonna win

she's got money

foreign

[Music]

Montana Avenue in Santa Monica when I

got

an email you know it took a little while

to sink into what actually happened I

was driving uh to Cesar's Palace and I

got this phone call it's kind of like

where were you when JFK was shot I had

just woken up in LA and I went to my

computer when I started seeing tweets

immediately talking about what's going

to happen to my money and it was just

like Bam Bam Bam Bam Bam everyone

tweeting about oh my God I was on the

phone with somebody and they're like can

you believe what's going on I'm like

what's going on and they said wow and

then they shut this down they shut that

down and I'm like you got to be kidding

me really it was like the end of the

word on the poker just everything

stopped right there it was it was over

[Music]

foreign

15th is typically known as most people

as tax day but unfortunately April 15

2011 we'll be forever known for poker

players especially online poker players

is Black Friday that's the day that the

Department of Justice indicted about 11

people they focused on three websites

PokerStars full till poker and absolute

poker and what they were charging was

illegal online gambling but also

importantly

bank fraud money laundering there was no

more questionable

intent from the government they made it

very clear that they had every intent to

shut down online poker completely the

Department of Justice indicted the

founders of the world's three largest

internet poker companies for bank fraud

money laundering and circumventing U.S

gambling laws it blocked the websites

from U.S users

the first thing I did was log on to the

two accounts that I have and to my

surprise I saw something that was very

frightening I saw a big giant seal

Department of Justice logo a very

ominous type thing this was not clearly

not good and it was certainly the the

first indication that that I think we

really had in concrete that everything

had suddenly changed breaking news uh

related to I don't know Ben but full

till poker and Ponzi scheme in the same

sentence d-ro yes Scott there's a new

amended complaint from the Civil point

of view from the Department of Justice

today saying that Full Tilt Poker

operated a Ponzi scheme the U.S attorney

in Manhattan says the site illegally

paid 440 million dollars to its

director's money that the site allegedly

took from customer accounts they've also

by the way added two big poker stars

names Chris Ferguson and Howard Lederer

to the Civil uh case here but it's it's

unbelievable

I think that the lead of our story was

like not about cheating was but about

bluffing where you're going to continue

to make it seem like this company you

know is doing okay and has money to pay

everybody and there's no problems here

and you're using that to then take money

out of the company and then it turns out

that really you were bluffing there is

no money money's gone oh hi John Richard

Anthony how are you I was at work here

in New York trading options and I saw on

the Bloomberg the news flash and I

looked at my account Full Tilt Poker and

I saw that there was no

availability for the funds and

eventually the justice department did

work out

deals with these websites that would

allow them

to allow the players to access the site

in order to get their money back it's

just as we as we now know one of the

major sites Fulton poker

couldn't pay the players back

it's it's a day that we'll be etched in

infamy

[Music]

well the prosecutors in the southern

district of New York decided that it was

more important to prosecute online poker

sites for receiving money for people to

play poker and paying out the winners

than to prosecute the clear

chicanery

perpetrated by Goldman Sachs and the

other large investment banks on Wall

Street and off of Wall Street our

government's a squirrely little Bunch

but you know it's all about money they

want more money because they spend all

the money they have so they have to go

get more three billion dollars is what

the doj is asking for at 1.5 billion

from PokerStars a billion from Full Tilt

and half a billion from the absolute UB

group and that was kind of their demand

for like fines and penalties the

government believes that playing poker

on the Internet is illegal

period

if there are people out there who think

playing poker is great why do we care

okay that's fine for them and maybe that

is maybe there are a lot of people that

feel that way but I think the

government's position would be that it

is an illegal activity so as to as to

why it happened then

I mean there's a whole bunch of

conspiracy theories out there there's no

question that some people feel

that there's an underlying

reason that this Black Friday happened

and obviously that's that certain States

or certain people might be able to

regulate online poker and take over that

business and as we know that business

was huge well if you follow the rule of

follow the money

um there's a the casinos have a vested

interest in being able to control not

only the brick and mortar action but the

online action

I think it's because a lot of the big

Casino entities want an easier entry

into the United States market and

without PokerStars and Full Tilt

you know it's a lot easier the casino

companies are ready to go

um for the most part Caesars is already

operating online poker outside of the

United States they are you know they've

been preparing for this for years and

that's one of the reasons why it really

helps to not have PokerStars and full

till poker in the market

the internet poker was a lifeblood for

hundreds of thousands of people I mean

the best way to describe what a online

poker player is a successful online

poker player it's sort of like a day

trader I mean you know these guys are

basically sitting in their house like a

day trader would and uh you know have a

set schedule and they

basically work for those hours playing

poker is a skill it's a craft and uh

something you develop over time it's not

something you can just pick up and just

start doing and making money and you

have to actually work at it and then for

them to the government to pull the plug

like that and just take it all away it

messed up a lot of people I've got a lot

of friends that are in really bad shape

right now they're they're their monthly

income has been

uh not only affected it is in my case

it's just disappeared

because I I played almost exclusively

online

when there's an industry that's this big

it's billions and billions of dollars

you sort of can't overstate the economic

impact that something like this has

yeah there's no question that Black

Friday

dented not only the income of poker

players it's hurt a lot of people it's

certain marketing companies publishing

companies I mean television shows have

gone off the air which trickle down to

people like you know us Bluff magazine

and other websites it just goes boom

boom boom boom boom

you can imagine uh you know on a given

day when we're doing a production 80

people are working

and they're all thinking Show's coming

to an end will there be no more poker

shows these shows aren't going to come

back next year these after dark pokers I

mean who's gonna put the money up for if

you look at it the poker company has

created the poker boom and had a huge

amount to do with it on television and

so was the poker boom a real boom or was

it a manufactured Thing by these online

poker companies and can it Outlast poker

stars and full till poker

from the last number I had seen was a

few months ago I think was that the

amount of people playing poker in the US

was about 50 of what it was so it's not

zero

[Music]

if you don't care about poker at all you

should still be on our side you love to

bowl great who could imagine any moral

objection to a game like bowling but you

know what games like Golf and bowling

have been banned way back in history the

King of Scotland thought too many people

were spending too much time on golf

because they loved it so much so he

banned it you know and it's just like

what is it poker first is it something

else second is it going to be something

next after that I don't know but we

gotta stop it now well I'll tell you one

interesting thing to me which is that as

a citizen as a friend of poker players

um I hate this I hate what's happened my

heart goes out to these guys I want them

to be able to get their livelihoods back

instantly

as a romantic as somebody who has

celebrated the outlaw Spirit of Poker

and the poker player something in me

likes the idea that pokers back in the

shadows again that at least mythically

uh poker had to go back into the saloons

and back underground because one of the

great things about what it meant to

choose the life of a poker player was

you were in uh the tradition of Doc

Holliday not in the tradition of Davis

Love the third you know a professional

golfer and while 99 of me feels like we

should get past this instantly there is

that one percent that

um still likes the idea that the poker

player is somebody Who flouts convention

and doesn't need the government to say

it's okay in order to engage in it but

it's just determined to live by his wits

no matter what

foreign

poker is as much a part of Americana As

baseball and apple pie there's a rich

history and tradition to the game

closely associated with the growth of

America we are a nation of immigrants

immigrants have a different DNA they are

they are much more naturally Risk Takers

are the people who come over from

Vietnam

Central America everybody who's here is

one or two or three generations removed

from people who took enormous risk there

is a bit of you know that Western

swashbuckling a Riverboat Gambler

mentality built into us you know pokers

you know the Great American game and and

I think there is a Mystique about people

who in a sense can control their own

destiny through gambling that was crazy

people don't

really take those real risks in their

lives and maybe the game is where they

can take those risks

always before there was the sense that

that I can do better than my father and

that sort of peaked and so so many

children grow up today thinking

I'll never I'll never match Daddy I'll

never be as good as him I think now with

mass television with the movies that

show enormous amounts of success quickly

that people want it more quickly because

they're more aware of it than they were

before so what do you what do you do do

you plan over the Long Haul no no I'm

going to get a quick kill yeah

poker hey man I'll make a killing that's

how I'll do it I can't beat daddy over

the Long Haul

I can beat him with a one-night stand

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people always ask him has poked feet

they say the boom is over

nowadays people are even asking if the

American dream is gone let me tell you

leader is finished okay it's called the

poker scope and I invented it the name

of the company's poker heads in five

years we've grown to this Warehouse what

they're doing is starting a new league

trying to redefine the idea of a great

poker tournament it's a new thing I am

the live improved this is American Dream

you know baby people all over the world

are starting to play poker no longer

just an American Dream It's a European

dream it's an African Dream it's an

Asian Dream It's a Latin dream and maybe

what was starting to see

the stream where anything is possible

is probably our greatest gift to the

world we have the Asia Pacific Poker

Tour the Russian Poker Tour the Latin

American Poker Tour the North American

Poker Tour the Italian Poker Tour the

French Poker Tour the UK Poker Tour the

Australian Poker Tour poker now has come

it's International and everybody plays

now it's one of our biggest exports

poker is on a worldwide explosion Spain

is booming right now Brazil is booming

right now I had a letter yesterday from

a guy saying he's got 84 million people

in China playing Texas Hold 'em he

called it a Black Friday they can call

it black year

the game is not going anywhere I've had

a lot of people tell me that the poker

boom is over it's yesterday's news and I

chuckle when I hear that poker's been

around for hundreds of years I mean it

didn't just happen in 2001 or 2002 or

when the camera was inventoring like

that poker is a game that's going to

survive long after we're gone April 15th

rolled around and all the experts said

the World Series of Poker is going to

get devastated it's going to cut in half

and I said no it turned out that I was

right it was bigger and I'm really not

worried about the future of Poker we

still find that there are millions of

Americans who play in a regularly

scheduled game I don't think that will

go away anytime soon it doesn't really

matter what the government does it's not

going anywhere poker isn't going

anywhere because there's always going to

be somebody chasing the action and once

online poker becomes legalized and

regulated in the U.S which is going to

happen you're going to see another poker

explosion take off once again every

sport has been subject to the discussion

of whether or not its time has passed

and I think the fact is if you're the

subject of that discussion that would

suggest that you have in fact arrived

because when you play poker it doesn't

make a difference where you're from who

you are who your parents are what you

look like what your religion is

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because when you sit down with the poker

table it's just you versus the other

player and even if the chips are down

and you didn't get dealt with the cards

you wish you had you can still walk away

at one

now let me ask you something where in

life can you get odds like that

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[Applause]

you know why do the world's biggest

movie stars you know

um why are there why do they seem to be

so impressed by me

um I personally hate talking about poker

people always want to talk about poker

and you know I have certain rules when

it comes to discussing poker that my

friends that are kind of getting into

poker know that I don't really like to

talk about poker they respect me because

I have I've had perfect honor and

integrity in the game all these years

and uh and I happen to be a really great

guy away from the table the two things

that I've never done that I feel sort of

like

diminishes me as a man in in the late

20th and early 21st century I never took

up golf

and I never played poker under

conditions it could be a contact sport

as a matter of fact and you just

burn that hundred dollar bill

and you try not to get burned yourself

at the table and what people think is

that you're so crazy and they'll call

you more the cigar smoke was so thick

and the whiskey was so abundant and the

cursing was great and and I suspect that

even then people looked upon it as

should a president be doing this in the

white house but Harding had his own

Outsider status he was also having sex

with a woman in the closet so in the

middle of the white house so I guess

playing poker was okay for him I do have

vices Madam but they're all the vices of

a gentleman people who don't take risks

don't

don't get better me I don't think I've

ever taken a risk I don't know I mean

the funny thing is you know what I don't

like thrill rides I never want to do

things like parachute bungee jump I

would say the biggest risk I ever took

was getting married I guess I got

married getting married was the biggest

risk marriage not included okay

when you ask me what the biggest risk

I've ever taken I knew instantly what it

was and it uh I I'm legally I can't talk

about it I can try and think of the

second biggest one but uh I'll tell you

I'll tell you later

I was able to to feed my ego and my

family you know you think of Poker you

think of dirty dark room and you think

of CD underworld characters of whatever

you know there's money here on the table

and I'm hosting this game I'm

responsible for to run a good clean game

so

don't [ __ ] with me okay

most of the people who kind of ascribe

this kind of this dream or this thing

it's it's an emotional dream that

they're having it's this thing about

passion and emotion and oh the moment

when I crack them and I have this and he

has that you know whereas for the real

guy who sits there and does it day in

and day out he's seen every possible

thing that could happen because I abort

Christmas and I'm a Jew

um I don't have to celebrate Christmas

with anybody I'll go to Vegas and just

play poker there are a lot of people who

are not interested in Jesus in this

country and many of them choose to

gamble and if you think about like well

where would the Godless go Vegas is a

good destination you know

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