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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:01,235 --> 00:00:03,468 BEN: A country torn apart. 2 00:00:08,142 --> 00:00:09,942 A cyber attack knocks out the power. 3 00:00:11,278 --> 00:00:13,111 So while the operators are trying to recover, 4 00:00:13,214 --> 00:00:14,713 they're also dealing with the fact that 5 00:00:14,815 --> 00:00:16,181 all their systems are going down. 6 00:00:16,283 --> 00:00:18,183 Ukraine blames the Russian government. 7 00:00:24,258 --> 00:00:26,191 And the conflict moves online. 8 00:00:30,864 --> 00:00:40,872 ♪ 9 00:00:49,650 --> 00:00:50,782 It's popping off. 10 00:00:50,884 --> 00:00:53,051 (Gunshots) 11 00:00:53,153 --> 00:00:55,320 When I reported from the frontlines in Eastern Ukraine 12 00:00:55,422 --> 00:00:58,156 for VICE, I saw firsthand the raging war between 13 00:00:58,259 --> 00:01:01,426 Russian-backed separatists and Ukrainian military. 14 00:01:01,528 --> 00:01:05,230 Since 2013, Ukraine has been in a state of turmoil. 15 00:01:05,332 --> 00:01:07,666 That's when protests broke out against the pro-Russian 16 00:01:07,768 --> 00:01:11,303 government, which led Ukraine's president to skip the country. 17 00:01:11,405 --> 00:01:13,972 Then Russia invaded and annexed the Ukrainian territory 18 00:01:14,074 --> 00:01:16,675 of Crimea while Russian-backed separatists 19 00:01:16,777 --> 00:01:19,344 started waging war in Eastern Ukraine. 20 00:01:19,446 --> 00:01:21,747 But on December 23rd, 2015, 21 00:01:21,849 --> 00:01:26,018 a new front in the conflict may have opened up online. 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,087 That day, hackers attacked three power companies, 23 00:01:29,189 --> 00:01:32,424 known as "oblenergos" in Western Ukraine. 24 00:01:32,526 --> 00:01:34,793 It's the first known cyber attack that caused outages 25 00:01:34,895 --> 00:01:37,195 in a nation's power grid, and it left at least 26 00:01:37,298 --> 00:01:39,631 a quarter of a million people in the dark. 27 00:01:39,733 --> 00:01:42,534 The city of Ivano-Frankivsk was one of the ones hit. 28 00:01:44,705 --> 00:01:46,805 The operators of the control centre agreed to walk me through 29 00:01:46,907 --> 00:01:48,240 what happened that day. 30 00:01:52,112 --> 00:01:54,046 (Doorbell ringing) 31 00:01:54,148 --> 00:01:55,681 So this is the dispatcher control room? 32 00:01:55,783 --> 00:01:57,683 Right. 33 00:01:57,785 --> 00:01:59,384 Thank you. 34 00:02:01,422 --> 00:02:06,058 (Chattering) 35 00:02:27,581 --> 00:02:30,849 Bogdan Soychuk is a deputy director of the control room, 36 00:02:30,951 --> 00:02:33,185 which remotely controls dozens of substations 37 00:02:33,287 --> 00:02:34,353 around the region. 38 00:02:37,691 --> 00:02:40,058 When did you realize that you were under a cyber attack, 39 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,928 that it was not just some equipment-level mishap, 40 00:02:43,030 --> 00:02:45,130 that it was in fact some sort of attacker 41 00:02:45,232 --> 00:02:46,565 penetrating your network? 42 00:03:28,976 --> 00:03:31,543 Volodymyr Fedyk is the deputy director of IT 43 00:03:31,645 --> 00:03:32,978 at the power company. 44 00:03:46,427 --> 00:03:47,926 As Volodymyr and his team tried to figure out 45 00:03:48,028 --> 00:03:51,229 what was happening, substations controlled by the utilities 46 00:03:51,331 --> 00:03:53,432 started shutting down one by one. 47 00:03:53,534 --> 00:03:55,100 It happened in the middle of the day, 48 00:03:55,202 --> 00:03:57,335 and as the power went out, residents had no way of knowing 49 00:03:57,438 --> 00:03:59,805 this wasn't a regular outage and they were actually in 50 00:03:59,907 --> 00:04:02,040 the middle of a very sophisticated cyber attack. 51 00:04:19,693 --> 00:04:21,626 With the grid unplugged to prevent more outages, 52 00:04:21,728 --> 00:04:23,695 workers at the power company realized the only way 53 00:04:23,797 --> 00:04:26,331 to restore power was to physically drive out to 54 00:04:26,433 --> 00:04:29,534 the individual substations and switch the power on manually. 55 00:04:31,205 --> 00:04:33,071 Yuriy Torin was on duty that day. 56 00:04:34,575 --> 00:04:36,708 So we're going to one of the substations 57 00:04:36,810 --> 00:04:38,043 that was actually attacked and taken out. 58 00:04:38,145 --> 00:04:39,444 Yeah. 59 00:04:39,546 --> 00:04:42,147 And did you have to physically go turn it back on? 60 00:04:42,249 --> 00:04:43,682 Yes. 61 00:04:43,784 --> 00:04:45,817 So there's 35,000 volts over there? 62 00:04:45,919 --> 00:04:47,385 Yeah. 63 00:04:47,488 --> 00:04:49,988 And if I get how close, 60 centimetres? 64 00:04:50,090 --> 00:04:51,289 60 centimetres. 65 00:04:51,391 --> 00:04:52,290 - Bye-bye? - Yeah, bye-bye. 66 00:04:52,392 --> 00:04:53,492 (Laughing) 67 00:04:53,594 --> 00:04:54,493 So this is what you had to do in December? 68 00:04:54,595 --> 00:04:56,595 Yeah, we should open this. 69 00:05:00,601 --> 00:05:02,534 I'm gonna stay close to you. 70 00:05:02,636 --> 00:05:05,003 So that's the... 71 00:05:05,105 --> 00:05:07,873 They switch off this equipment, 72 00:05:07,975 --> 00:05:10,342 and they switch off that equipment. 73 00:05:10,444 --> 00:05:13,311 So these substations and two transformers 74 00:05:13,413 --> 00:05:15,080 were without electricity. 75 00:05:15,182 --> 00:05:16,214 Wow. 76 00:05:16,316 --> 00:05:18,917 And this area was without... 77 00:05:19,019 --> 00:05:20,318 - Electricity? - Yeah. 78 00:05:20,420 --> 00:05:24,856 Open this box and press this button. 79 00:05:24,958 --> 00:05:26,591 - To turn it back on? - Yeah. 80 00:05:27,995 --> 00:05:31,496 It's more than 25,000 people. 81 00:05:31,598 --> 00:05:33,164 Wow. 82 00:05:34,201 --> 00:05:36,501 And that's just from this one substation. 83 00:05:36,603 --> 00:05:39,504 Dozens of substations across the region went dark. 84 00:05:39,606 --> 00:05:41,072 The outages lasted less than a day, 85 00:05:41,174 --> 00:05:44,175 but it took months for the power companies to get back to normal. 86 00:05:44,278 --> 00:05:47,779 I also learned that at least one facility was attacked, 87 00:05:47,881 --> 00:05:49,748 but managed to keep the lights on, and there are likely 88 00:05:49,850 --> 00:05:52,284 even more targets who haven't come forward 89 00:05:52,386 --> 00:05:54,519 to avoid embarrassment. 90 00:05:54,621 --> 00:05:57,355 It's clear this was a massive coordinated effort, 91 00:05:57,457 --> 00:05:59,524 so who did it and why? 92 00:06:06,733 --> 00:06:09,067 BEN: In 2015, two days before Christmas, 93 00:06:09,169 --> 00:06:11,736 at least three power companies in Western Ukraine were hit by 94 00:06:11,838 --> 00:06:14,072 a cyber attack, which knocked the power out 95 00:06:14,174 --> 00:06:16,575 for more than a quarter of a million people. 96 00:06:16,677 --> 00:06:19,377 The hack came in the midst of an active military conflict 97 00:06:19,479 --> 00:06:21,112 between the government of Ukraine 98 00:06:21,214 --> 00:06:22,647 and Russian-backed separatists in the east. 99 00:06:22,749 --> 00:06:23,982 (Gunshots) 100 00:06:24,084 --> 00:06:25,584 Within 5 days of the cyber attack, 101 00:06:25,686 --> 00:06:28,887 the SBU - Ukraine's equivalent of the FBI - blamed Russia. 102 00:06:30,891 --> 00:06:32,457 After some lengthy negotiations, 103 00:06:32,559 --> 00:06:35,293 I met with a member of the SBU in the back of a van in Kiev, 104 00:06:35,395 --> 00:06:39,097 on the condition we not reveal his name or show his face. 105 00:06:39,199 --> 00:06:41,399 He told me that officials had advanced knowledge 106 00:06:41,501 --> 00:06:44,169 of the attacks, but were unable to prevent them. 107 00:06:44,271 --> 00:06:47,606 But the SBU hasn't offered up any proof to back up its claims. 108 00:06:47,708 --> 00:06:50,575 Why isn't there any direct proof that it was Russia? 109 00:06:50,677 --> 00:06:51,843 Why don't you have that? 110 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,133 Right, so this is a war. 111 00:07:15,235 --> 00:07:17,736 This is a full-on war with Russia. 112 00:07:17,838 --> 00:07:19,404 Both online, offline... 113 00:07:45,766 --> 00:07:48,166 Ukraine was quick to blame Russia for the attacks, 114 00:07:48,268 --> 00:07:50,235 but the reality might be more nuanced. 115 00:07:50,337 --> 00:07:52,470 After the hack, the US government sent a team 116 00:07:52,572 --> 00:07:55,707 to Ukraine to investigate, and several cybersecurity firms 117 00:07:55,809 --> 00:07:58,476 analyzed the publically available evidence. 118 00:07:58,578 --> 00:08:00,679 There's so many things that Russia gets blamed for 119 00:08:00,781 --> 00:08:02,047 as a big bad boogeyman that you go, "Well, 120 00:08:02,149 --> 00:08:04,382 maybe not all of it's true," but some of it still is! 121 00:08:04,484 --> 00:08:05,650 (Laughing) 122 00:08:05,752 --> 00:08:07,886 Robert M. Lee served in the Air Force 123 00:08:07,988 --> 00:08:10,388 as a cyberwarfare operations officer. 124 00:08:10,490 --> 00:08:13,158 He also worked for an unnamed US intelligence agency, 125 00:08:13,260 --> 00:08:15,827 which he won't confirm or deny was the NSA. 126 00:08:15,929 --> 00:08:17,529 Rob now runs his own company 127 00:08:17,631 --> 00:08:19,731 focused on securing critical infrastructure. 128 00:08:19,833 --> 00:08:22,200 Working with electricity industry watchdogs, 129 00:08:22,302 --> 00:08:24,502 he co-wrote the definitive report on the Ukraine attacks. 130 00:08:25,839 --> 00:08:29,107 Now, why don't you take me through the actual... 131 00:08:29,209 --> 00:08:31,910 you know, in layman's terms, how'd this attack go down? 132 00:08:32,012 --> 00:08:33,178 'Cause it's multifaceted. 133 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:34,946 There's a few different stages, right? 134 00:08:35,048 --> 00:08:36,414 Yep. 135 00:08:36,516 --> 00:08:38,550 So it all started about 6 months previous to December, 136 00:08:38,652 --> 00:08:40,351 about 6 months previous. 137 00:08:40,454 --> 00:08:42,187 There was phishing emails sent out. 138 00:08:42,289 --> 00:08:44,889 So operators at the power grid were getting emails 139 00:08:44,991 --> 00:08:47,792 about a variety of different events going on in Ukraine. 140 00:08:47,894 --> 00:08:49,794 When they opened up the email, a piece of malware 141 00:08:49,896 --> 00:08:52,430 called BlackEnergy 3 was dropped to the system. 142 00:08:52,532 --> 00:08:55,800 That enabled the attackers to steal off credentials, 143 00:08:55,902 --> 00:08:58,203 usernames, passwords, things like that from the network, 144 00:08:58,305 --> 00:09:00,238 and then were able to come back in. 145 00:09:00,340 --> 00:09:03,541 Over that 6 month period, they spent that time 146 00:09:03,643 --> 00:09:05,643 researching and understanding the environment. 147 00:09:05,746 --> 00:09:08,813 So it wasn't this story that we hear sometimes thrown around 148 00:09:08,915 --> 00:09:11,583 about light speed, net speed cyber attacks. 149 00:09:11,685 --> 00:09:13,384 No, it was human adversaries 150 00:09:13,487 --> 00:09:14,886 doing research to the environment. 151 00:09:14,988 --> 00:09:16,554 So the attack starts. 152 00:09:16,656 --> 00:09:18,389 When they did that, they also had a piece of malware 153 00:09:18,492 --> 00:09:21,159 called KillDisk positioned on the systems, 154 00:09:21,261 --> 00:09:24,429 so that when the systems reboot it would kick off, 155 00:09:24,531 --> 00:09:26,231 deleting all the files and deleting all the systems. 156 00:09:26,333 --> 00:09:27,732 BEN: Wow. 157 00:09:27,834 --> 00:09:30,301 So while the operators are trying to recover, they're also 158 00:09:30,403 --> 00:09:32,270 dealing with the fact that all their systems are going down. 159 00:09:32,372 --> 00:09:34,005 And then in the midst of all that, 160 00:09:34,107 --> 00:09:37,108 they basically blew the bridges to those substations. 161 00:09:37,210 --> 00:09:39,010 Now, let's talk about the actual people 162 00:09:39,112 --> 00:09:40,979 that did this attack in Ukraine. 163 00:09:41,081 --> 00:09:43,114 The Ukrainian government said it was Russia. 164 00:09:43,216 --> 00:09:44,115 So who was it? 165 00:09:44,217 --> 00:09:45,784 When you took a look it at 166 00:09:45,886 --> 00:09:48,019 and you actually went into it, who did it? 167 00:09:48,121 --> 00:09:50,522 If we're talking about should the US government come out and 168 00:09:50,624 --> 00:09:53,525 say it was Russia, I don't think they have enough proof. 169 00:09:53,627 --> 00:09:56,461 One American cybersecurity firm, FireEye, 170 00:09:56,563 --> 00:09:59,631 blamed the Ukraine attack on a group they call Sandworm Team, 171 00:09:59,733 --> 00:10:01,666 which they say has ties to Russia. 172 00:10:01,768 --> 00:10:03,301 Rob agrees. 173 00:10:03,403 --> 00:10:06,271 I think the Sandworm team is more than likely 174 00:10:06,373 --> 00:10:09,774 a private for-hire team that goes around and kicks down 175 00:10:09,876 --> 00:10:12,143 the doors for places, and then it's possible 176 00:10:12,245 --> 00:10:14,512 that a military team or someone else comes in after. 177 00:10:14,614 --> 00:10:16,981 But I do not think that the Sandworm team 178 00:10:17,083 --> 00:10:18,316 is the Russian government. 179 00:10:18,418 --> 00:10:20,852 Sandworm Team may not be the Russian government, 180 00:10:20,954 --> 00:10:23,188 but the fact that Russia's been implicated in the attack 181 00:10:23,290 --> 00:10:25,657 could have international repercussions. 182 00:10:25,759 --> 00:10:28,560 And it seems highly unlikely that people inside the country 183 00:10:28,662 --> 00:10:31,396 would do something so high profile and so obviously in 184 00:10:31,498 --> 00:10:34,365 Russia's interest without at least informing the government. 185 00:10:35,836 --> 00:10:38,002 I can't imagine a scenario - and this doesn't mean 186 00:10:38,104 --> 00:10:41,673 it can't exist, but I don't feel that there's a scenario where 187 00:10:41,775 --> 00:10:45,410 a team operating out of Russia thought that it was a good idea 188 00:10:45,512 --> 00:10:47,245 to take down a portion of the power grid, and at least 189 00:10:47,347 --> 00:10:49,547 didn't notify somebody that they were gonna do it. 190 00:10:49,649 --> 00:10:51,182 There's... 191 00:10:51,284 --> 00:10:53,318 That's a very risky situation to begin. 192 00:10:57,924 --> 00:10:59,657 BEN: The hack of Ukrainian power companies is 193 00:10:59,759 --> 00:11:01,993 the first time we know of that a cyber attack 194 00:11:02,095 --> 00:11:04,863 caused outages in a nation's power grid. 195 00:11:04,965 --> 00:11:07,065 If the attack was actually pulled off by Russia, 196 00:11:07,167 --> 00:11:09,167 this wouldn't be the first time access to electricity 197 00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:12,003 has been used as a weapon in this conflict. 198 00:11:12,105 --> 00:11:13,338 More than a year before the incident, 199 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,174 Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine. 200 00:11:16,276 --> 00:11:19,510 Then some Crimeans got very pissed off and struck back. 201 00:11:19,613 --> 00:11:21,546 They formed a blockade and cut off access 202 00:11:21,648 --> 00:11:24,082 from Crimea to Ukraine. 203 00:11:24,184 --> 00:11:27,552 And in November 2015, they blew up pylons providing Crimea 204 00:11:27,654 --> 00:11:31,422 with electricity, leaving 2 million Crimeans in the dark. 205 00:11:31,524 --> 00:11:33,825 That happened just a month before the cyber attacks 206 00:11:33,927 --> 00:11:35,326 on Ukraine's power grid. 207 00:12:05,158 --> 00:12:07,158 Lenur Islyamov is a businessman 208 00:12:07,260 --> 00:12:09,661 and a former deputy prime minister of Crimea. 209 00:12:09,763 --> 00:12:12,997 He's a Tatar, a Muslim ethnic minority in Ukraine. 210 00:12:13,099 --> 00:12:14,799 He was the leader of the blockade, and the Russian 211 00:12:14,901 --> 00:12:18,169 government has charged him with terrorism and absentia. 212 00:12:18,271 --> 00:12:21,506 Many believe the cyber attack on Western Ukraine's power grid 213 00:12:21,608 --> 00:12:23,975 was Russia's retaliation for the Crimea blackout, 214 00:12:24,077 --> 00:12:26,344 which happened just a month earlier. 215 00:12:26,446 --> 00:12:29,147 The Russian government has actually named you personally 216 00:12:29,249 --> 00:12:32,417 for sabotaging the Crimean power grid. 217 00:12:32,519 --> 00:12:34,919 How do you respond to that allegation? 218 00:13:05,218 --> 00:13:06,751 Do you think the FSB's following you? 219 00:13:32,145 --> 00:13:35,513 So do you personally think that the attack on the oblenergos 220 00:13:35,615 --> 00:13:38,750 in December in Ukraine was retaliation for the attack 221 00:13:38,852 --> 00:13:40,351 on the power grid in Crimea? 222 00:13:40,453 --> 00:13:41,552 Absolutely. 223 00:13:52,298 --> 00:13:53,731 Do you think you'll ever go back to Crimea? 224 00:13:53,833 --> 00:13:55,333 Absolutely. 225 00:14:10,717 --> 00:14:12,850 So you're going back to Crimea dead or alive, 226 00:14:12,952 --> 00:14:14,018 is what you're saying? 227 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:15,253 I think so, okay? 228 00:14:25,532 --> 00:14:27,465 The Russians might've been the first to take the conflict 229 00:14:27,567 --> 00:14:30,435 in Ukraine online, but the battles being fought there 230 00:14:30,537 --> 00:14:32,904 are continuing from both sides. 231 00:14:33,006 --> 00:14:36,741 Roman Burko and Vitalik Sororin - not their real names - 232 00:14:36,843 --> 00:14:39,143 are part of a group called InformNapalm. 233 00:15:04,337 --> 00:15:06,270 Many of their members live in Crimea, 234 00:15:06,372 --> 00:15:08,773 or in separatist-controlled regions in Eastern Ukraine. 235 00:15:08,875 --> 00:15:12,276 Officially the Russian military is not deployed in the East, 236 00:15:12,378 --> 00:15:15,313 but using a mixture of social media and on-the-ground intel 237 00:15:15,415 --> 00:15:18,783 gathering, InformNapalm is proving Russian Special Forces 238 00:15:18,885 --> 00:15:20,918 are actively operating in the region. 239 00:15:21,020 --> 00:15:22,653 They've also published information about 240 00:15:22,755 --> 00:15:25,189 Russian soldiers serving in Syria. 241 00:15:25,291 --> 00:15:27,291 They agreed to meet me in my hotel, 242 00:15:27,393 --> 00:15:29,527 and wore masks because they worry about what could happen 243 00:15:29,629 --> 00:15:31,929 to their family members and loved ones if their identities 244 00:15:32,031 --> 00:15:33,698 were ever revealed to Russian agents. 245 00:15:35,869 --> 00:15:38,603 So what is InformNapalm, and what do you guys do? 246 00:16:52,011 --> 00:16:53,711 So this is more than just an info war 247 00:16:53,813 --> 00:16:55,379 between Ukraine and Russia. 248 00:16:55,481 --> 00:16:57,281 This is essentially a cyberwar as well. 249 00:17:09,495 --> 00:17:11,529 You're behind a keyboard and you're causing havoc 250 00:17:11,631 --> 00:17:13,331 for the Russian government, 251 00:17:13,433 --> 00:17:15,600 but are you willing to die for that cause? 252 00:17:32,986 --> 00:17:36,587 ♪ 253 00:17:36,689 --> 00:17:38,055 BEN: Russia never formally responded to 254 00:17:38,157 --> 00:17:40,091 Ukraine's allegation that the country's to blame 255 00:17:40,193 --> 00:17:42,793 for the cyber attack on Ukraine's power grid. 256 00:17:42,895 --> 00:17:45,329 And some government officials within Russia really don't take 257 00:17:45,431 --> 00:17:47,698 the threats from Ukrainian hackers very seriously. 258 00:18:22,168 --> 00:18:24,302 Vadim Dengin is a member of the Russian Parliament 259 00:18:24,404 --> 00:18:26,437 and the Committee on Informational Policy, 260 00:18:26,539 --> 00:18:29,340 Information Technology, and Communications. 261 00:18:41,454 --> 00:18:44,255 The Russian government maintains it never invaded Ukraine, 262 00:18:44,357 --> 00:18:46,657 and that Russian soldiers in Eastern Ukraine are merely 263 00:18:46,759 --> 00:18:49,894 patriotic volunteers helping Ukrainians who wanna separate 264 00:18:49,996 --> 00:18:51,662 from the country and join Russia. 265 00:19:07,980 --> 00:19:10,981 Dengin might think ragtag Ukrainian hackers are harmless, 266 00:19:11,084 --> 00:19:14,151 but the hackers I'm about to talk to are the exact guys who, 267 00:19:14,253 --> 00:19:17,521 in collaboration with InformNapalm, hacked the Kremlin 268 00:19:17,623 --> 00:19:19,824 and leaked the emails of Putin's right-hand man, 269 00:19:19,926 --> 00:19:22,593 Vladislav Surkov, making international headlines. 270 00:19:26,933 --> 00:19:30,901 So right now I'm waiting to meet up with a hacking group 271 00:19:31,003 --> 00:19:34,705 that InformNapalm hooked us up with called RUH8. 272 00:19:34,807 --> 00:19:36,874 And I don't know what these people look like, 273 00:19:36,976 --> 00:19:39,143 but I do know they're under investigation apparently, 274 00:19:39,245 --> 00:19:41,712 allegedly, by Russian intelligence because 275 00:19:41,814 --> 00:19:42,980 they've been hacking Russia. 276 00:19:43,082 --> 00:19:44,849 But we should be meeting with them really soon. 277 00:19:49,155 --> 00:19:51,088 We finally managed to figure out a safe location 278 00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:54,258 for the two black hat hackers I was about to meet. 279 00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:56,427 They call themselves Dahmer and Ross. 280 00:19:56,529 --> 00:19:58,596 They're part of the hacking group RUH8, 281 00:19:58,698 --> 00:20:01,832 and say Russian intelligence agencies like the FSB would be 282 00:20:01,934 --> 00:20:03,801 very interested in knowing who they are. 283 00:20:05,438 --> 00:20:09,039 So if you could say anything to those Russian FSB investigators, 284 00:20:09,142 --> 00:20:10,241 what would you tell them? 285 00:20:15,648 --> 00:20:18,749 (Laughing) 286 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:21,452 You're an outlaw, eh? 287 00:20:21,554 --> 00:20:23,621 (Laughing) 288 00:20:23,723 --> 00:20:25,623 So you have evidence then that they're actually after you? 289 00:20:26,859 --> 00:20:28,492 And you don't give a ----? 290 00:20:35,034 --> 00:20:36,901 But if they invade at some point... 291 00:20:37,003 --> 00:20:39,170 (Sighing) 292 00:20:43,342 --> 00:20:44,675 This is war, so this is all war to you? 293 00:21:02,595 --> 00:21:04,528 Do you wanna explain some of the biggest hacks 294 00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:06,063 that RUH8 has ever done? 295 00:21:45,938 --> 00:21:48,873 The conflict in Ukraine is almost 3 years old and counting. 296 00:21:48,975 --> 00:21:50,774 As I know from my own experience, 297 00:21:50,877 --> 00:21:53,043 getting shot at or being shelled is a daily occurrence 298 00:21:53,145 --> 00:21:54,945 in certain parts of the country. 299 00:21:55,047 --> 00:21:57,214 But if Russia really was behind the power grid attacks 300 00:21:57,316 --> 00:21:59,850 in Western Ukraine, or even if Russia just allowed 301 00:21:59,952 --> 00:22:03,554 a private company to do it, a major line has been crossed. 302 00:22:03,656 --> 00:22:05,523 Our critical infrastructure in the US and Canada 303 00:22:05,625 --> 00:22:08,459 is just as vulnerable to cyber threats as Ukraine's. 304 00:22:08,561 --> 00:22:11,462 So if someone really wanted to turn the lights off 305 00:22:11,564 --> 00:22:12,963 in North America, they probably could. 306 00:22:13,065 --> 00:22:14,798 And given that there have been no serious repercussions 307 00:22:14,901 --> 00:22:16,500 for what happened in Ukraine, 308 00:22:16,602 --> 00:22:18,636 what's really stopping someone from doing it again? 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